Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: uboatbuilder on August 03, 2009, 11:23:28 am
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thinkin about getting one of those parkzone rtf electric rc planes anyone got one what do you think, me and dad were considering a spitfire and mustang.
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Are you new to model aircraft or do you have plenty of experience flying model aircraft?
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im brand new and i think jumping in the deep end, neither of us can really be bothered with trainers, dad started flying many many moons ago but had a bad experience and stopped
we just want a warbird thats relatively cheap to buy and repair, but flys reasonbly well
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The Spitfire is great fun, I have one. It is definately not a beginners model though as in a shallow dive it was getting towards 100mph. Go for the Firebird series of the parkzone models. Or a Decathalon.
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If you are a good enough flyer you don't need to ask the question <:(
If you need to ask the question you are not a good enough flyer %)
These are not for beginners (whatever it says on the box) and trying to learn to fly on these toys/models is almost certain to lead to disappointment. <:(
Whip up to your local flying club, speak nicely to an instructor and you might even get a free go to see if flying suits you - you will save a lot of money & fustration :-))
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<:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:(
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the hobbyozne firebird commander is a great start, its cherap and a good way of getting into model flying, these are alot more forgiving than the mustang- however they're not pretty or fast and as a high wing pusher type aircraft they're very forgiving.... let go of both sticks and you should be able to just about regain straight and level flight....
worse case scenario and you wreck it then spares are easy and cheap to get hold of.....
they also have the option of the 'combat kit' this is a little unit that plugs in to the fuselage and you can play dogfights, its basic but if you are following another commander with the kit and you get the aircraft in front within the ' beam' from this little ( infrared beam i think) unit it kills the power to their electric motor for about 10 seconds....you can then glide and when the motor starts up again give it wellie and up you go again for more.....
i have had one of these for about 2 years now and i still from time to time crash it.... i still would not class myself as experienced enough for the mustange or the spit.......
i suggest you try one of these first and then move on and up to one of the warbirds later
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I had the Firebird Scout for a time, it was very uncontrollable though was great fun, I smashed it into the ground more times than I could remember (mostly intentionally), even crashed it into a tree in dense fog once and it fell apart and came crashing to the ground. Through all this it only ever needed some UHU POR and some Diamond tape and it'd be flying 20 mins later. Great fun, only cost me £25 too. In the end I turned it into an airboat and it lasted until it turned over and got rather soggy...
If you call up Barry at Mainly Models he sells the Hobbyzone/ Parkzone stuff very cheaply.
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Na, go straight for the Spit., after all, 17 & 18 year olds used to fly the full sized ones with little or no training. :-))
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It will be in the ground in the first minuit.
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Sorry to say it but everyone here is right, they are not for beginners. If you are serious about getting into model aircraft then contact your local club and maybe look into investing in a good computer trainer programme first.
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Why not just take a pre training flight in a real one to see how hard/ easy it is, then when flying a model version it is very easy?
Just my 2 P worth. You can normally get a pre training hands on flight for about 200 quid in a real one. Like boats, driving a model is not like driving the real thing, wether it is a plane, Helicopter or car or what ever, totally different. Get hands on first, trainer etc? :-)
Paul...
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Have some fun , yes the advice about getting some hands on experience is good , but for some real hit and miss fun then a foamy could be what you want .
I flew many years ago (not very good) and built my planes from the usual balsa covered frames but also from foam and plastic , the cheapest and easiest is correx (for sale signs) , i dropped a correx plane from a couple of hundred feet into some woods and once i had found it i taped on the wings and fitted a new prop and she was ready to go(never did find the reason) and twenty or so flights later she was still working , all for about a tenner ( plus radio etc).
But for a ready made plane try these http://www.foamyfactory.com/
brushless electric seams to be the way to go .
daz
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Why not just take a pre training flight in a real one to see how hard/ easy it is, then when flying a model version it is very easy?
Just my 2 P worth. You can normally get a pre training hands on flight for about 200 quid in a real one. Like boats, driving a model is not like driving the real thing, wether it is a plane, Helicopter or car or what ever, totally different. Get hands on first, trainer etc? :-)
Paul...
Spoken as someone who has tried his own advice?
Speaking as a model flyer and full size pilot - the theory of control may be the same but being in the aircraft and able to feel the forces involved is totally different to trying to control one from the ground where you have only your sight to rely to let you know what is happening (and the times involved are greatly reduced for a model). By all means advocate a training flight but only as an experience of full sized flight not that of flying a model they require different skills. <:(
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What are you on matey? I said it wasn't the same? DOH! :o
Paul...
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So the point of saying it was ? <:(
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Go the trainer route! You could probably launch the Spitfire, throw it round the sky and convince yourself you're in control - then comes the controlled arrival bit.....good pilots call them landings - it's not as easy as you might think.
I'm still on powered gliders / hi - wingers and still get it wrong. Built an electric Bearcat (balsa and monokote) but won't fly it until I get 10 consequetive 'good' flights and landings with my 'plastic fantastics' - had the Bearcat 4 years now!
As for good model / real pilots - My good friend, an ex-RAF squadron leader and qualifed glider instructor - can't fly models at all, nor can he drive an RC car - totally useless!
If he can't feel it through the seat of his pants - he can't handle it.......weird eh?
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I have flown R/c models for 30 years and had occassional hands on in full size for 40 years - I qualified as a glider pilot 40 years ago.
I would say that there is a link between the two but it is at the understanding level rather than doing one lets you do the other. It may well speed up the learning process but I think not much more.
As to the choice of model. To learn you need something that will sort out your mistakes and be easy to control. A 3 channel trainer type model. I would also say that having somebody who can fly to set the model up & help with the first few flights is an invaluable help.
Finally be careful where you fly. The wrong type of model is a weapon and can seriously injure or kill. I would never fly anything other than a very slow small model if I wasn't fully insured.
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Same full size as Chris E, ( wern't t'ATC wonderful, thanks very much) The only similarity and advantage of full size is the theory of flight. Amusing how most who see toy aircraft zobbing about want to start with a "Spit", thats if they know what one looks like today. "Park Flyer", what a contradiction in description, even experienced fliers would be hard pressed to fly these in a "Park" in total safety with the "Blame - Claim" society. Sorry, my previous posting was ;D
You need a trainer (Preferably WITHOUT engine), someone who CAN twiddle the sticks competantly and wide open spaces. Bet it can still manage to find the only rock in the field.
Regards Ian.
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Circlip
I learnt in a Segberg. Were you the same or the old Mk111?
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Both, started in the lopsider and then front seat of the Mk.III Ah, the memories of rain, like having yer eyes pierced wiv Needles, Kirton Lindsey. 62
:-))
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Cosford '69 :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) I was too tall for a Mk111. As a motorcyclist - passed my the test day after my 16th birthday after riding around a farm for years & then had a 650 BSA waiting at home - the rain was not unknown. Mind you the bike was not reliable enough to get wet very often! The BSA insurance at £8 per year "third party only" for a 16year old on a 650 still sounds cheap.
Age 16yrs 4 months & coming off the top of the winch @1000ft & looking around first solo still rates as one of life's "great moments".
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As some of the more experienced model flyers on here will confirm, the Spitfire has an eliptical wing... and it tapers right down to a virtual point. The Spitfire is the very LAST model you want to fly as a learner as it is likely to 'tip stall' at low airspeed. The root of the wing has a deep chord (wide) and will give lift at low speed, however the airflow over the wing spills off the tips and as they do not posses the same lift characteristics as the root they lose lift much earlier and consequently the aeroplane will drop one wing and spiral uncontrollably into the gound.
Choose a naturally stable model with wings mounted on top of the fuselage, a model which is light and with some dihedral (wings which angle upwards away from the fuselage) and avoid tapered section wings. Go for a parallel wing shape and most importantly... and this is the really important bit.... get an experienced model flyer to show you how to fly, otherwise take a couple of carrier bags with you! <:(
It is easier to fly a full size than a model, you can 'feel' an aircraft when sitting in it but with your model, you are detached and can only rely on your experience, your sight and reaction times.
Take heed, the pilots on here know a thing or two and you would be wise to take their advice if you want to be successful.
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My good friend, an ex-RAF squadron leader and qualifed glider instructor - can't fly models at all, nor can he drive an RC car - totally useless!
If he can't feel it through the seat of his pants - he can't handle it.......weird eh?
This is my fear about radio-sailing. I've done the real thing for 35+ years, and I'd be dying of embarassment if I couldn't handle a model in the same (or similar) way. :embarrassed: Hence my desire for a footy (or other) is on hold until I can "get a go" and convince myself.
Incidentally, I radio-slope-soared for many years during the mid-late-eighties, and while sticking to two-channel, constant-chord, high wings, I always took a tube of five minute Araldite with me. :-)) Turned many a ten-minute trip to the slopes into an enjoyable day. :embarrassed:
Andy
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In my youth not so long ago I thought That I would take up building and flying model planes , the building part was fun and I feel that I did a good job on the few planes I built.. So out I went with My Futabs FP T7FG/K TX (incidental this also has a trainer slot) but I didn't need that, thought that it could not be much more difficult than sailing a boat !!..
Off I went with 2 other friends who also had built planes to what was Stretton Airfield , Take off Fine , Flying well that was a bit haphazard the landing , well I let you be the judge of that one.
We counted 3 Whole planes out , we had alot of firewood coming home with us.
In hindsite what we did was B£$%£$%dy Stupid , I would certainly Recommend getting training . as when I think about it the planes came very close to us at times .
Now no Laughing Please... <*<
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I was just trying to say a little bit of training would be good, never mind the real thing compared to a model aspect, why do some people just take every chance they can get to have a go?
I know what I can do, does anyone else really know?
Paul... {-)
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Hi Darlek, that broken aeroplane is just the sort of model one needs when learning.... but in one piece of course! Apart from a healthy and reliable motor ( very important if you wish to keep away from the planets surface) it was apparently easy to work out what the controls were doing whilst flying away from you but when flying head on, you have to think which way to move the sticks.
When I started flying I was offered help by a very accomplished flyer who gave me two extremely helpful bits of advice and after a couple of half hour lessons I was flying solo.
1:- engine at full bore and get some good altitude straight away ( height will allow for some errors) then chop the throttle back and reduce speed a bit to remove twitchiness of the aircraft.
2:- When the model is turned towards you, at some point it will wander in one direction or other or drop a wing so, push your rudder (or aileron if 4ch) stick towards the dropped wing or direction of turn as if you were using it as an imaginary prop to support it.
These two bits of info alone were the key to survival of my model and I went flying all summer with that aeroplane and it always came home in one piece . Once you have mastered it and flown for a while, you don't actually have to think which way to push the sticks as it just becomes second nature and like riding a bike, you don't forget either. :-))
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Sheerline,
You were very lucky. Knowing what to do & actually doing it in the moment of crisis are not the same thing.
It is perfectly true that most beginners fancy a Spitfire - although a jet is catching up fast now - & it is totally the wrong plane to fly as a beginner when stability is a great help & speed something to avoid at all costs - you just arrive at the scene of the accident quicker & the damage is then much more impressive - and dangerous. Generally the less help you have the more stable the model needs to be and the slower it is the more time you have to think & the less damage will result. Also when first learning avoid any sort of wind.
Grasshopper
I wouldn't worry. Whilst real & model look similar there are many differences. If you wanted to transfer from a Piper to a Boeing you would expect a lengthy conversion course so why expect to transfer from full size to a model without any help? I taught an ex Hunter squadron leader - at the time a senior air traffic controller - to fly models & he was one of my best learners. Whilst he needed help he understood the principles & was very disciplined which made him a quick learner.
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.... but in one piece of course!
<:( <:(
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That gold Futaba looks very 80's & wasn't cheap. It is very offputting to start with crashes. All model aircraft are expendable - if you can't accept that then don't fly - but it does hurt.
Try again with help it is great fun.
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As an additional bit of info, my third model aircraft was a quarter scale Auster, I flew it 3ch using rudder and a bit of diherdral. Talk about a stable model, it was fantastically stable. I used to put the tx on the ground whilst I rolled a fag and watch it gently circle the field on half throttle. It had 13 sq ft of wing area and weighed in at 13 lbs... 1lb/sq ft wing loading! I flew it for three years until a bracket gave out on a wing strut. The crash was very unspectacular in that it looked firghtening as it descended ,spiralling out of the sky, but it did it fairly gently and and gave me loads of time to shut the motor down and warn a couple of people nearby. It only smashed the nose off but it never did get repaired. It was a really good flyer and loads of beginners had a go at it and were surprised how slow and docile it was....and easy to fly!
Bigger the better in my book but you do need a good flying area .
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Size is a mixed blessing as with size goes weight & cost. Weight, or mass, is the difference between a model that bounces & one which demolishes itself. Having said that a stable big model is so precictable & relaxing to fly.
The traditional 55" 40 powered model flying club trainer was not an accident but the result of experience.
Nowadays my decision would be totally the result of the help that I expected to get. If you are going to get real support - like in a club - then I would go 4 channel & not totally stable as a very good learning experience but if I was on my own then you basically need to start with a model that is very light & flies itself until you mess it up. Learn to fly on calm days with plenty of height that gives the model time to sort itself out if you just let go of the controls. I would not recommend this route but if needs must....
Finally decide what you want the aircraft to do & make it do it. Far too many fliers respond to what the model has done.
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Go for lessons from a proper instructor...I can't fly a 'plane to save my life, but I can fly a chopper(ish). I took a course of lessons from a BRCHA(as it was then)qualified instructor, who just happened to live close to me. He started off by practically rebuilding my Hughes 500, telling me where I'd gone wrong and showing me how to correct it...then the flying started. It took me ages to learn that the direction that the heli was facing wasn't necessarily the direction in which it was flying....once that had sunk in, I was away.
I only ever broke one piece, landed on a sharp 'something' and burst a float.
It cost me a fair few bob to learn properly, but it saved me an awful lot more in repairs.
Rich