Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working vessels R&D: => Topic started by: Cargo on April 08, 2006, 12:02:34 pm

Title: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on April 08, 2006, 12:02:34 pm
My Graupner Southampton (or how long does it take to build a clyde puffer?) was bought in 2004, after starting the big time consuming adventure of an mayhem-build? ;D

Ok, to have some fun at the lake in the meantime i bought it on ebay, three days later it arrived. It is ARTF, but unlike a dickie tug it is no toy and is has got a proportional 27 Mhz radio. I replaced it with a 40 Mhz ACT Receiver + a 2100 Mah Akku. Size is 560 mm x 195 mm, two 7,2V engines but only one speedcontroller running in two fixed cortnozzels. The boat is a bit to fast and it still looks a bit plastic-like.

(http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/Southampton/Southampton_2/voll.jpg)? ?

(http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/Southampton/Southampton_2/absmb-009.jpg)

(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Modellers/Jan/images/wyforce%2004.jpg)

Then i decided to rework the wheelhouse a bit, some wood, GPS + Radar + Machinecontrolls made of photoetched parts. The captain is made of white-metal.

(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Modellers/Jan/images/wyforce%2006.jpg)

regards,

Jan

Ps.: my english may vary a bit from yours...? ;)





 
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Tug Guy on April 08, 2006, 05:23:03 pm
I am curious as to how the Clyde puffer build is coming along? I have a large 48" Clyde puffer I bought as a semi kit from Pandora model in Marina Del ray, California years back.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: bobdoc on April 08, 2006, 05:41:08 pm
I am curious as to how the Clyde puffer build is coming along? I have a large 48" Clyde puffer I bought as a semi kit from Pandora model in Marina Del ray, California years back.

MMM is a great site which I visit regularly. The anticipation of progress with the puffer build is getting intense!
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on April 08, 2006, 05:55:08 pm
But dont forget he has family, work and a great website to handle and NOW a forum 8)


Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: splodger on April 09, 2006, 06:21:35 pm
I had one of those Graupner Southamptons, and it let water in all the time, nothing I did seemed to cure it. I've never had that problem with a boat before & gave up in the end and sold it. Does yours leak like mine did?
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Braders on April 09, 2006, 06:37:48 pm
Its Ok you chatting about the puffer build timescale (well sort of timescale), I had to throw the paint away I had bought to spray the puffer hull with, it had been sitting in the workshop that long it had gone off !!

I may bar Martins access to ebay soon, that should move the puffer build along nicely !!

Bradders  ;)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on April 09, 2006, 06:50:59 pm
I had one of those Graupner Southamptons, and it let water in all the time, nothing I did seemed to cure it. I've never had that problem with a boat before & gave up in the end and sold it. Does yours leak like mine did?

After looking over the hatches i decided to test them under the shower, no water inside. The same on the lake, no water inside.

Hallo Braders,

i have no problem with the time-scale, i know that Martin and you are doing a great job :)   
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: boatmanic942 on April 11, 2006, 03:47:52 pm
thats the thing with model tugs they're always fast
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: riggers24 on April 11, 2006, 06:53:04 pm
He's only working to the same time scale I am. It will get finished just like my crash tender. maybe.

Marc
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: John W E on April 11, 2006, 09:36:24 pm
Hi ya Riggers mate,

Did you know fibre glass deteriorates over a length of time? ;D? next time you go and look at your model there might just be dust there? :o :o

Is this the type of time scale you are thinking of? ??? ??? ???

Anyway hurry up and get it done? :P ;D ;D

Aye
John
Bluebird
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: riggers24 on April 12, 2006, 08:32:12 am
No there is a good layer of dust on the model which is protecting it from any light ;D

riggers
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on April 23, 2006, 10:22:12 pm
on the sea...

They both are nearly  ;) in the same scale i think. Nope, the big one is not mine.

(http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/Southampton/Southampton_2/absmb-021.jpg)

(http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/Southampton/Southampton_2/absmb-001.jpg)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 03, 2006, 09:06:22 am
Hello, I have one of the "Southampton" tugs which looks identical to the Graupner model but was sold under the "Hobby Engine" trade mark.  They clearly know that they leak because it comes complete with a sponge!  With mine its one of the propeller tubes. In the end I fitted an automatic bilge pump and (with a larger powerpack) I can use it for hours.  The other problem is the manoeuvrability.  I've  put in a 4 channel receiver and twin ESC's so I can operate the "engines" independently.  I saw the real Wyeforce the other day coming into Southampton water from the river Itchen.
Cheers, Peter T
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: splodger on May 03, 2006, 09:23:59 am
Interesting that your Graupner Southampton leaks the same as mine did Peter. I gave up in the end, it was only ever intended as a fun model anyway, so I never even thought about getting all complicated with a bilge pump like you did. The prop shafts were the problem, though I couldn't understand why they leaked as badly as they did. My local model shop sent some back to RipMax for just that reason. Nice little model all the same.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 03, 2006, 09:53:43 am
No problems with water inside so far... i hope it will stay this way  ;)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 03, 2006, 03:42:33 pm
splodger,
yes, but for me it was  an interesting model to persevere with  because the Wyeforce used to dock outside my workplace and also I know someone who used to work on her I live on the river Itchen and the model has had many outings just upstream from where Itchen Marine, her owners,  are based.

Jan, I know at least one other model that does not leak so you will probably stay lucky!
Peter
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 03, 2006, 10:08:53 pm


Jan, I know at least one other model that does not leak so you will probably stay lucky!
Peter

this Sunday i am at the lake, i report then  :)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 04, 2006, 07:27:48 am
Some photos of mine on the River Itchen this morning (the sun was only just up),
Peter T

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Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 04, 2006, 02:24:16 pm
Very nice pictures  :) :)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 04, 2006, 06:53:51 pm
Thanks Jan,
In the first the Wyeforce was spinning in its own length while I took the photo - the advantages of indendent twin prop control!
Peter T,
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 04, 2006, 08:06:03 pm
Can you tell me how to unscrew the deck? 
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Pointy on May 04, 2006, 08:32:28 pm
Hey Jan,

How much time do you get on the water with the power pack it comes with?

Anyone got a Thunder Tiger fishing boat or an Atlantic Tug?
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 04, 2006, 08:36:24 pm
Not long, maybe 20 minutes. It has only 600 mah. I use three packs, 2500 and two 2300Mah, enough for a day ;)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 05, 2006, 08:33:23 am
Can you tell me how to unscrew the deck?
Jan, yes.  In addition to the screws that are obvious there are screws hidden under each of the bollards (see diagram).  The ones with red arrows were glued in place on mine and had to be prized off.  The ones with blue arrows are held in place by screws. It's worth labelling the side ones so you know which one goes where. When everything is unscrewed you need to side a knife in just under the lip and gently prize the deck off.  It will seem stiff.  The  deck section extends into the hull about 10mm and there is a rubber ring seal that is easy to damage (particularly when you are re-assembling).
Cheers,
PeterT

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Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 05, 2006, 08:51:19 am
Hey Jan,

How much time do you get on the water with the power pack it comes with?

Anyone got a Thunder Tiger fishing boat or an Atlantic Tug?

Hi Pointy, 
Jan is correct re running time.  I use a 3300mAh for the motor and a 2100mAh for the electronics which give ample time for me (at least two or three hours). 

I have a Thunder Tiger "Lobmaster" RTR fishing boat - see my avatar.  I've added details like nets, lobster-pots, tyres, ropes etc. plus the figures that you can buy separately.  I've also cut scupper-holes (discovering in the process that the bulwarks are hollow and open into the bouyancy chamber!).  Here's a couple of photos, there are more at...
http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/2406543 in the "Fishing Boats" album and also "On the River Itchen".
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 05, 2006, 09:59:43 am
Can you tell me how to unscrew the deck?
Jan, yes.? In addition to the screws that are obvious there are screws hidden under each of the bollards (see diagram).? The ones with red arrows were glued in place on mine and had to be prized off.? The ones with blue arrows are held in place by screws. It's worth labelling the side ones so you know which one goes where. When everything is unscrewed you need to side a knife in just under the lip and gently prize the deck off.? It will seem stiff.? The? deck section extends into the hull about 10mm and there is a rubber ring seal that is easy to damage (particularly when you are re-assembling).
Cheers,
PeterT

Many thanks  :)

The manouverability backwards is just anoying.  Now i can fit two esc  ;D
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Pointy on May 07, 2006, 11:11:04 am
Thanks Peter T, really like the little details you added to your Lobmaster! I have the Majestic and what you said about the bulwarks explains a mystery to me. One one occasion I recovered my boat and found a lot of water sloshing around inside the bouyancy tanks but not the interior?! Has to drill a little hole in a tank to drain it- never had the problen since- suppose water must have got into it by going over the deck and not in the hull somehow?
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 07, 2006, 05:08:57 pm
Here is a short video from today, small tug hunted by Orkney Express? ;)

Hunted (http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/PICT1334.AVI)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 08, 2006, 10:05:31 am
Thanks Peter T, really like the little details you added to your Lobmaster! I have the Majestic and what you said about the bulwarks explains a mystery to me. One one occasion I recovered my boat and found a lot of water sloshing around inside the bouyancy tanks but not the interior?! Has to drill a little hole in a tank to drain it- never had the problen since- suppose water must have got into it by going over the deck and not in the hull somehow?

Pointy, Thanks for the encouragement.  Made from scratch lobster pots aren't quite the same as a made from scratch QM2 (which is the sort of thing other  members at the club I go to do) but you have to start somewhere!

I'm not sure I've solved your problem water ingress  problem though.  Any water on deck should either stay there, or find its way to the inside, not into the bouyancy.  The buoyancy is pierced by the screws that hold the electronics tray in place and at the points where the deck is fastened down, Maybe you have a leak there?  Or is there a hole in the bulwarks somewhere?
Peter T
p.s. we ought to make this a "Thunder Tiger Fishing Boats" thread.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 08, 2006, 10:16:24 am
Here is a short video from today, small tug hunted by Orkney Express  ;)

Hunted (http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/PICT1334.AVI)

Jan, liked the movie!  I took one of mine but the file is too big for the forum.  Having seen what you did, I'll use the free web-space I get with my broadband connection to serve the file.  It may take a day or two since I've never used that space before.
Cheers,
Peter T
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 08, 2006, 12:57:27 pm
Here is a video from last year. Btw no water inside the hull yesterday. Next thing to do is to use two esc.

A video from your boat would be nice? :)

Passing by (http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/passby.avi)

Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 08, 2006, 01:39:29 pm
Here is a video from last year. Btw no water inside the hull yesterday. Next thing to do is to use two esc.

A video from your boat would be nice  :)

Passing by (http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/passby.avi)



Hi Jan, I really recognize the sound of that gearbox in the movies!  Hopefully I've found out how to do it over lunchtime so you might get to see mine doing its party trick! Round and round (http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mov) cheers,
Peter T
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 08, 2006, 01:49:12 pm
Here is a video from last year. Btw no water inside the hull yesterday. Next thing to do is to use two esc.

A video from your boat would be nice? :)

Passing by (http://www.trucks-and-ships.de/passby.avi)



Hi Jan, I really recognize the sound of that gearbox in the movies!? Hopefully I've found out how to do it over lunchtime so you might get to see mine doing its party trick! Round and round (http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mov) cheers,
Peter T

That looks amazing, now i must HAVE two esc  :D
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 08, 2006, 04:21:16 pm
That looks amazing, now i must HAVE two esc :D
Hi Jan,
You might like to see the inside of my Wyeforce nowadays.  The first pic is the general layout and you can see the motor battery (3300 mAh). My wiring is not neat! When I went to 2 ESCs I first used an ACTionKit mixer which allowed me to stay with 2 channels and worked really, really well until it experienced too much of the inside of a leaking tug in rough weather on the River Itchen which is salt water where I live. (I don't usually use these but...  :'().  So now my layout is as shown in the second picture. ..

(A) is the aerial which I've routed through the hatch and up through the wheelhouse and main mast so I don't have the whip antenna on the side (which Wyeforce does not have!).  The (up to 4 channel) receiver is under the hatch  (B) which I figured was the dryest place. I'm using 2 mtroniks Viper 15 ESCs (which they claim are waterproof} situated under the junction strip (C).  They are driving two 280 motors which are rated at 1.5 to 3v but that was too slow so I'm giving them 7.2V (got away with it so far!) - the original motors didn't like salt water and died horribly.  (D) is the 2100mAh  battery pack and fuse for the electronics.  (E) is the bilge pump, with electronics (F) and outlet (G).  The electical connectors under (G) are the sensor for the water level.  The tube comes as high as possible under the deck before going down to the pump to prevent back flooding.

I've put some (better) photos  of her on the Itchen at photobox (http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/2406543"), go to the last album and the 2nd page!
Cheers,
Peter T



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Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 08, 2006, 04:57:00 pm
I cant believe that you realy driving her on the River Itchen! Hope she never hits her big sister  ;)

Nice pictures, helps a lot.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 08, 2006, 05:56:20 pm
Hi. yes I'm on the Itchen. Here is a  photo  taken a few minutes ago showing my jetty  ( the tide is just coming in). In summer I'm brave because I canswim after the models . At this time of the year I make sure that the wind is blowing towards me!
Itchen Marine are based a couple of miles, and two bends of the river, downstream of me.
Cheers, Peter T


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Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 09, 2006, 07:03:55 pm
My daughter managed it to remove the deck. Now i need two esc and some wire. Thinking about to remove the gearbox and replace it with two directdrives... the noise is driving me crazy  ;)     
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: ron h on May 09, 2006, 11:02:29 pm
My daughter managed it to remove the deck. Now i need two esc and some wire. Thinking about to remove the gearbox and replace it with two directdrives... the noise is driving me crazy? ;)? ? ?



Thats the biggest problem with gear boxes, they never get quieter, ::) ::) ron h
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 10, 2006, 07:25:39 am
My daughter managed it to remove the deck. Now i need two esc and some wire. Thinking about to remove the gearbox and replace it with two directdrives... the noise is driving me crazy ;)
Removing the gearbox also means that, if you have to replace the motors, you don't need ones that fit exaactly and also do not get hot when enclosed in plastic!
Peter T
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 10, 2006, 09:54:55 am
I decided to let the gearbox untouched this time and to get two esc only. I make a picture today from the wiring around the motors, i have a few questions...? ???

Under 1: not glued, they where pressed in. But now they need to be glued back  8)
Under 2: we forgot the screw under the antenna, took us 15 minutes to find out  ::)

 
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 10, 2006, 10:22:18 am
I decided to let the gearbox untouched this time and to get two esc only. I make a picture today from the wiring around the motors, i have a few questions...  ???

Under 1: not glued, they where pressed in. But now they need to be glued back 8)
Under 2: we forgot the screw under the antenna, took us 15 minutes to find out ::)
Jan, re. (1) I glued them down a little to one side so the screws are still accessible.  re. (2), sorry, since I no longer use that arrangement for the aerial that screw is obvious on my model!
Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 10, 2006, 04:34:16 pm
I think we need to cut all under 1 and under 3 we need a new wire.
But whats that under 2???
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 11, 2006, 08:52:40 am
I think we need to cut all under 1 and under 3 we need a new wire.
But whats that under 2???
Hi Jan, I assumed that they were some sort of inductances, either to make the motors run smoother or as part of the interference suppression.  I didn't have two more so I left them out and didn't notice any difference!  I did use the anti-interference capacitors.
Cheers, Peter T.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: meechingman on May 11, 2006, 09:47:30 pm
Hi all,

Newbie to the forum, glad I found it, and especially this post. I've had a Southie for a year - no problems with leaking, though I do give both ends of the propshafts a squirt of grease before each sail.

I haven't dissassembled her yet as the warranty has only just run out. I'd like to go to twin ESC's as time and funds permit, but in the meantime I'd like to give her some working lights. I've got the LED's, built and tested the PCB to run the all at the correct brightness.

Thing is, how to take the superstructure apart without damaging it. I want to run thin wires up through the wheehouse and up the back of the mast, and also up into the navigation lights. Deck lights are no problem.

Can I ask for some advice on this please.

Has anyone figured out how to make her steer when going astern. I know twin ESC's would do the job and I'm familiar with manouevering a full size twin screw tug (Dad was a tug skipper and let me 'play'!!) But how about changing rudders or giving them more throw. Would that help.

Last thing... I built a barge for her - solid mahogany and 8kgs. Looks great but rocks and rolls like a mad things. Any ideas for making it more stable?

I've attached a couple of pix to show what I mean.

very many thanks

Andy G

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/andygilbert/Southamptonandbarge3.jpg)
Roll to port...
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/andygilbert/Southamptonandbarge5.jpg)
and starboard..
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/andygilbert/Southamptonandbarge7.jpg)
occasionally behaves .. sort of!
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/andygilbert/barge11.jpg)
Southie and barge [note the additional anchor, like Wyeforce.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/andygilbert/Southampton5.jpg)
Southie at full speed - no leaks!
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on May 12, 2006, 07:54:50 am
Hi all,

Newbie to the forum, glad I found it, and especially this post. I've had a Southie for a year - no problems with leaking, though I do give both ends of the propshafts a squirt of grease before each sail.

I haven't dissassembled her yet as the warranty has only just run out. I'd like to go to twin ESC's as time and funds permit, but in the meantime I'd like to give her some working lights. I've got the LED's, built and tested the PCB to run the all at the correct brightness.

Thing is, how to take the superstructure apart without damaging it. I want to run thin wires up through the wheehouse and up the back of the mast, and also up into the navigation lights. Deck lights are no problem.
Hi Andy G,
Not sure what you mean by taking the superstructure apart?  On mine the wheelhouse roof just lifts off and you can get to the rest of the superstructure when its unclipped from the hull.  I drilled a small hole in one corner of the wheelhouse floor in order to lead the receiver antenna up through the wheelhouse. it then goes through part of the original antenna tube which I've fastened to the back of the mast.  You could do something similar for the lighting.  It actually looks as if the inside of the wheelhouse roof was designed for a lighting wire.

I have trouble steering her going astern even with two ESCs (ok partly lack of skill!).  Once she starts to turn it needs quick remedial action to stop her!  My single screw lobmaster fishing boat is actually easier to handle!
Cheers,
Peter T
p.s. when I first bought her I gave the rudders more throw by extending the servo arm - it helped a bit.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on May 12, 2006, 03:11:32 pm
Hi all,

Newbie to the forum, glad I found it, and especially this post. I've had a Southie for a year - no problems with leaking, though I do give both ends of the propshafts a squirt of grease before each sail.

I haven't dissassembled her yet as the warranty has only just run out. I'd like to go to twin ESC's as time and funds permit, but in the meantime I'd like to give her some working lights. I've got the LED's, built and tested the PCB to run the all at the correct brightness.

Thing is, how to take the superstructure apart without damaging it. I want to run thin wires up through the wheehouse and up the back of the mast, and also up into the navigation lights. Deck lights are no problem.

Can I ask for some advice on this please.

Has anyone figured out how to make her steer when going astern. I know twin ESC's would do the job and I'm familiar with manouevering a full size twin screw tug (Dad was a tug skipper and let me 'play'!!) But how about changing rudders or giving them more throw. Would that help.

Last thing... I built a barge for her - solid mahogany and 8kgs. Looks great but rocks and rolls like a mad things. Any ideas for making it more stable?

I've attached a couple of pix to show what I mean.

very many thanks

Andy G
 

You can try to make bigger rudders or to make a so called Becker-Rudder.

(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/My_models/My%20Boat%20Images/Dickie/Becker1.jpg)

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/My_models/31%20Dickie_4.htm

Maybe the barge has to much weight to the top, try to place the main ballast as low as possible in the hull.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Doc on May 12, 2006, 04:45:31 pm
Andy,
Going in reverse is almost a lost cause.  The only 'sure' way I know of is to use 'flanking' rudders, those are rudders in front of the props, which are able to direct water flow.  Diferential motor control works but definitely takes some getting used to (flanking rudders do to for that matter).  Just like a fan, theres always more air/water control on the output side rather than the input side, that make sense?  Then again, steerable kort nozzles work fine (great, now how do I do that? - lol).
 - 'Doc

PS - All of those options work better in salt water rather than fresh water.  Why?  Cuz the large dose of salt required is pre-mixed...
(time for my meds)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Cargo on June 17, 2006, 08:58:52 pm
Another day at the lake, here is my Southie together with Bankert ...

(http://www.big-schiffsmodellbau.de/berichte/images/Anschippern2006/gross/Anschippern%2020060507_162.jpg)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton prop control
Post by: meechingman on June 18, 2006, 10:25:06 am
Peter

You've obviously done the job. That's next up for mine. Can you post a bit of information / pix on how you did it please.

I extended the rudders on mine - made a heck of a difference even without independent motor control. Spent around 4 hours on the water learning how to handle the new setup. A lot of that spent going astern - not a drop of water inside! I spray a bit of grease on all the points where water could get in before each sail, so maybe that's it.

Thanks
Andy

PS. Next time, I'll read ALL the pages in the thread again before posting - as most of the info is already here, but any extra will help!
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton prop control
Post by: Peter T on June 19, 2006, 01:18:40 pm
Peter

You've obviously done the job. That's next up for mine. Can you post a bit of information / pix on how you did it please.


Hi Andy,
Instructions for taking the model apart are lower down the thread. 
Then...

So far I've tried two methods of prop control.  First I used an ActionKit P40C mixer and two ActionKit Condor 10/2 Autoset P79 speed controllers.  This allowed me to use the two channel Tx/Rx which comes with the tug.  Note though that I powered the electronics separately using a 4 cell NiMH pack since I was no longer using the original ESC which has a BEC built in.  The setup worked very well and was easy to use.  The only problem was that the ActionKit gear is in no way waterproof and the mixer soon gave in due to the salty wet environment inside my particular tug! When I replaced it I sprayed all the electronics with PCB laquer.  However, after not long I started to get erratic action which I later discovered was due to one of the ESCs acting up (whether this was due to my spraying them I don't know).

So now...  I bought a 4 chan Tx and a Futaba R114F 4-chan Rx.  The latter is really small and is velcro'd under the forward hatch - about the driest spot!  I'm using 2 Mtroniks Viper Marine 15 ESCs; again these are small and claim to be waterproof.  They are a neat looking design and seem to consist mainly of a large heat sink.  So  now I have a system more likely to survive my outings on the River Itchen.  However it is harder to use than the mixer system and means I'm now on 40MHz FM and can't use my collection of 27MHz crystals.  How much has this tug cost me? don't ask.  Good fun tho.

I will  send another message with a labelled photo of the present inside of my model when I've labelled it up.   Photos of it at play on the Itchen are at ..
http://www.photobox.co.uk/shared/browse.html?c_album=2600171&page=2
Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on June 19, 2006, 01:44:40 pm

I will send another message with a labelled photo of the present inside of my model when I've labelled it up.

Here it is. Key:
A = Rx under hatch
B= 2 ESCs under distribution strip
C = electronics battery pack with fuse above
D = PCB to switch on bilge pume (in poly bag)
E = Bilge pump with tubing
F = water level sensor
G = motor battery pack
L = where she leaks!
Cheers,
Peter

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Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Ghost in the shell on July 05, 2006, 09:17:05 pm
i endulged in a bit of towing with my southampton and flipped it on her roof, (oops) see the well boss.... thead.

internals remaind dry and she is in the middle of a re-work now, just waiting for the mixer before i screw the deck down.  also I have retained the use of the original equipment tray, with the battery going in the back compartment.  Southampton was turtled for 10 mins before being recovered.

inside was dry :)

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Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on July 07, 2006, 08:22:32 am
i endulged in a bit of towing with my southampton and flipped it on her roof,

Hi Jan, the guy I know whoo used to work on the real Wyeforce said they were always afraid they might do that one day!
PeterT
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: meechingman on July 08, 2006, 12:35:18 am
At tea time today (5.00) I looked at the Club Event List. Later on in the year is the 'night sail'. "NBG for me", I thought, "no lights!" Then I thought again and (just!) 7 1/2 hours later, and after much drilling, gluing and soldering - not to mention the usual headscratching and occasional cursing - I have running lights and a full set of deck lights. All are LED's, running off a 5v regulated supply - can't read the number on the regulator right now! That's on a 'distribution board' with 4 different voltages (1 variable) so I can make the main mast steaming light brighter than the navigation lights, and have the 'floodlights' on the after deck brighter than the amber deck lights. I just fired it all up and the 9v battery died on me! I think I left it plugged in earlier. My children came down to see what I'd been up to all evening and pronounced me 'SAD'. The 'admiral' had gone to bed earlier. She said the same thing, but spelt it with an 'M' instead of 'S'!

Pix and info to come when I recover!? ;D

Andy

As a PS.... Worked fine last night, this morning the regulator decided it would overvolt and blew the 'super bright' white LED's used for the mast and floodlights. AFTER they'd been glued in place, of course! Seems to have settled down and all the LED's have been replaced, but I may give the white LED's their own 3-4v power off an AA pack.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on July 14, 2006, 03:24:44 pm
At tea time today (5.00) I looked at the Club Event List. Later on in the year is the 'night sail'. "NBG for me", I thought, "no lights!" Then I thought again and (just!) 7 1/2 hours later, and after much drilling, gluing and soldering - not to mention the usual headscratching and occasional cursing - I have running lights and a full set of deck lights.
Andy


Wow Man,
I've always been curious that the wheelhouse top moldings look like some version might have been designed to have lights. Nice that someone is starting whith this (very authentic model) and taking it that bit further!
Peter T.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 25, 2006, 10:32:36 pm
after flipping her over, Southampton got a re wire for independent motor control,

here is the thread on RC Groups.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534947

also on the thread is a link to a video
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on September 26, 2006, 04:37:23 pm
after flipping her over, Southampton got a re wire for independent motor control,
Hi Ghost, I accidently flipped mine a couple of days ago while taking photos ( the contols were taped down and I was looking through the camera so didn't see the approaching collision with a 40 foot ferro cement yacht until it was too late).  Still she survived with only the loss of the searchlight.  Latest photos are at:  http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/2600171 (skip to page 2, or for comments, view slideshow and skip to the Wyeforce photos).  I've gone to 4 channels rather than a mixer which gives more control going astern... but I'm till no good at it tho!  However she does spin in her own length...
Cheers,
Peter T.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 27, 2006, 03:27:50 pm
here is a reviw I did of Southampton, it can be found on the model boat mayhem parent site :)

---
Just after Christmas 2005, I purchased a Southampton from A MODEL WORLD, (Northwich), and she is a good boat, need to get some transparent plastic to do the windows of the bottom deck, having tried a power test with her in the bath, tethered, I think that a tow could be done I wound the engines up to full bore holding the tow line and she seemed ok, the deck bollards not moving.

I do like how the battery compartment has its own watertight hatch, underneath the lock-down superstructure, and the way the lock is concealed to the rear servo access hatch, (which makes for good useful storage). that hatch too is weather proof, so as long as nothing silly is done, she should take some good water on the lake without taking on water.

As regards detail, the model is very well detailed for a RTR, and worth the £216 I paid for her, which when you consider say a kit built tug may cost £160 before paint, motors, optional fittings, radio gear ETC, is a good price.

The hull itself certainly looks to be durable, not made of cheap plastic, even though it is quite light. The only thing I can fault, is the fenders, being made of vinyl, to be as soft as rubber tires are on the real model, some of them ripped as the thread that held them to the ship was being fed through the pre-formed holes, also the thread itself isn't particularly wonderful, cheap nylon, so I will get some double sided tape and stick the tires down to the hull.

Southampton on the water.

After charging batteries, it was a case of go down to the local park lake and put the ship in the water to assess how she performs, here are the results as follows.

along with My freighter, Gemini, Southampton was sailed around the lake, at varying speeds and turns to see how she handled, with the results being quite pleasing, the Twin-screw drive performed as well as can be expected with only two-channel control.

The turning circle could do with being a little tighter, taking as she has a radius of around 5 boat lengths, (that may be due to the fact that she is twin-screw twin rudder with no differential effect on the props allowing the speeds to be controlled independently, changing this to 4 channel with twin ESC will probably solve this)

The high superstructure on the deck, in relation to the deck means that the model is prone to weather-cocking, and so sometimes twisting in reverse, and the kort nozzles reduce the effectiveness of the rudder when in reverse, this may be a problem when engaging in Tug-Towing competitions, however, it is no worse than a single motor tug.

In all, I am impressed by the quality of the build (as said earlier), a Very good model, but could do better, perhaps an option would be to produce a model of her with twin controllers for the engines and to make the rudders have more throw on them.
---

Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on September 27, 2006, 04:30:42 pm
here is a reviw I did of Southampton, it can be found on the model boat mayhem parent site :) ...
Hi Ghost, here is a (repeat) link to mine spinning on the spot [/http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mov (http://[/http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mov).  She certainly can tow. I've been up the River Itchen in my Canadian Canoe towed by the model!
Cheers,
 Peter T.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on September 27, 2006, 04:32:35 pm
link should have been http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mov (http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mov)
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 27, 2006, 05:01:12 pm
argh quicktime!!!!!
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on September 28, 2006, 06:33:15 pm
argh quicktime!!!!!
Hi Ghost,
Nowt wrong with Quicktime for Mac or PC (you just have to install on thelatter)!
... however a big avi (30+Mb)  file is now at http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.avi
or a little (poorer quality but better value for download time - you get the idea from the movie) MPEG4 file at
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~pktaylor/P1010802.mp4
..let me know which you find best (or if you need something else) since this is a continual problem which would be nice to solve. Maybe we should all converge on avi DivX but it costs! I use Quicktime because I'm Mac based but also because the Digital Rights Management is, lets say, a lighter touch!
Cheers, Peter T.
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 28, 2006, 07:16:00 pm
i had NO sound on the quick time vid, except for an annoying sinewave beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!!!!!!!  through out the entire video, I will check the AVI later on when i get home.

I plan to get video footage of Southie sailing a canal sometime
Title: Re: Graupner Southampton (Wyeforce)
Post by: Peter T on September 28, 2006, 09:15:50 pm
i had NO sound on the quick time vid, except for an annoying sinewave beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!!!!!!!  through out the entire video, I will check the AVI later on when i get home.
Well it's always possible that the sound was the gearbox!  ..but I think there was some wind noise.  I view videos with the application VLC ( http://www.videolan.org/ ) which plays pictures and sound from more or less anything and is available cross-platform. Can't recomend it too much - supperb product and free!
Cheers, Peter T.