Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: das boot on September 26, 2009, 12:09:22 pm
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Just bought one of these hulls from ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140348367856&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1182 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140348367856&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1182) to build and play with whilst I'm drilling and filing 500odd flood slots in U-Flak1... %%
Your advice gentlemen please, on the best motor/battery/shaft/prop combination to start from? No li-poly things, just common or garden nicads please...and a submerged shaft, I don't want anything too technical.
Ta
Rich
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On 7.2 volts a standard 540
Above 7.2 volts a 550
More exotic and expensive motors Graupner 70 BB Turbo, but you will need to increase the voltage from that stated on box ie a 9.6 volt motor runns quite happily in 14.4 volts but would recommend watercooling.
Flexi shaft
2 blade racing prop, not sure depending on motor.
Bob
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By heck Bob, there's handy, then...I've got a 70BB Turbo doing nothing. 14.4 volts...that's..err...12 cells? (I wish I payed more attention to the maths teacher at school all those years ago!)
Prop size...how about starting off with something like a 40mm two blade? Or even a 45mm?
Thanks,
Rich
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Rich,
I would wait a little for some of the Fast boys to advise on specifics.
I thought you only wanted (a bit of) speed!!!
With over 12 volts you will need either an expensive ESC or heavy duty microswitch.
And don't forget the heavy wiring to take the power.
Bob
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Thanks Bob, the hull won't be here until Tuesday/Wednesday, so there's plenty of time for the racers to pass their comments on your choice.
Bit of speed...hmm, that outrigger frightened me so much I sold it before I'd even got it wet, but this one is just for fun(says he looking at Electra's website) It should be a bit quicker than U-Flak1 will be...
I hadn't given any thought yet to controlling the beast...wonder if the ActionMan can come up with something to slow it down?
Cheers Bob,
Rich
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Something like:
P98 HIGH-POWER ELECTRONIC SPEED CONTROLLER
£ 54.00 Incl VAT
P98 was developed primarily at the request of our Australian agents, Darke Horse Model Supplies, to use with their fan-cooled, planetary-geared 785 motors. These run on power supplies from a humble 12v up to a mind-boggling 20 cells (30v+), although their current consumption is relatively modest. Our Design Consultant, Dr Tim Fawcett, has broadened the specification and also included some very useful features, with the result that the P98 is probably the most �controllable� speed controller on the market anywhere in the world. Specifications are: Motor voltage 12v Min; 32v Max Motor Current 30A Max Continuous; 140A Surge Rx Supply voltage 5.0v Min/6.0v Max User-selected functions (via on-board DIL switches): 1) Standard/Offset neutral transition speed 2) Linear/Non-linear acceleration curve 3) Standard/Extended speed range 4) Normal width/Wide neutral (dead-band). Case size 74mm x 50mm x 28mm (+30mm for heat-sink fins). Screw terminal connections. Accessories (Available separately) P99 In-line 5v Voltage Regulator P98W Heat-sink water-cooling set
Bob
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For the 700 on additional voltsge you will need to water cool the motor.
Bob
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That is an animal of an esc...£50? Ouch... <:(
Watercooling...will a few wraps of copper tube be sufficient Bob, or do I need anything more sophisticated?
Rich
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Rich, copper tube will be fine, at least 5 turns.
You could still go the 540 route at 7.2 volts, wont be a "beast" but will look fine.
If it is just a fun boat microswitches will give you full ahead and full astern, but for control you will need a fused high power speed controller.
Speed don't come cheap!!!
Bob
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You're not kidding Bob.... :D
Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated.
Rich
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No problem Rich, but would be better getting some info from the Fast Electric Lads.
Bob
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I be stood standing by for any advice/comments/criticism/general mickey taking Bob...
Rich
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As in Static or Dynamic diver?
Bob
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With the amount of ooomph you're talking Bob, dynamic I guess!!!
Rich
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Excuse me but why are we talking about prehistoric motors? This is a 'fast' electric hull {:-{
This is what you want Rich:
http://www.r2hobbies.com/proddetail.php?prod=rcps81711&PHPSESSID=dc02ecf3576f248db4a3cf4ceb810ce2
http://www.r2hobbies.com/proddetail.php?prod=pba1517007
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Because of the first post:
"No li-poly things, just common or garden nicads please...and a submerged shaft, I don't want anything too technical."
Bob
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And also because of the price tag!!
Rich
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Hi Rich
A fast electric boat seems fine but a nice 21 glow plug engine would pull that boat around all day. NO ESC to buy. NO motors to burn out and when the lake gets a bit of weed on it the prop will chop it up and spit it out. Unlike a electric set up.
Pitty you got rid of your Electric Hydro rigger I would have like to had a go with that.
However I hope you enjoy building your new boat and may it give you many hours of FUN ! Thats the main thing. :-))
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Hi Rich
A fast electric boat seems fine but a nice 21 glow plug engine would pull that boat around all day. NO ESC to buy. NO motors to burn out and when the lake gets a bit of weed on it the prop will chop it up and spit it out. Unlike a electric set up.
Pitty you got rid of your Electric Hydro rigger I would have like to had a go with that.
However I hope you enjoy building your new boat and may it give you many hours of FUN ! Thats the main thing. :-))
Hello Bill,
Our local lake has an ic ban mate, :police: they are only allowed at official race meetings, so for playing it has to be leccie power.
That hydro frightened the life out me just sitting on the bench, I didn't dare put it in water! :embarrassed: Hopefully this will be a lot tamer.....
And it's not a 700BB Turbo motor I thought I had, don't know what I did with that, more's the pity. >:-o Still, they don't seem to be that expensive...do they?
Rich
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If you used a geared 2/3:1 700 motor a 25 amp m-tronics or blue or similar would be sufficient on up to 50 mm brass props and give you adequate speed.
You would want to run the maximum voltage of 12 volts, equivalent to 10 Nicad/Nimh cells, pity the M-tronics cant run 2 6 cell packs in series.
A club member runs a direct drive 600 and 40 mm prop on 12 cells in a similar sized boat using one of the blue speed controllers, it gets up on plane and is quite nimble, It will never compete with a FE but FE is not what you are looking for Im reading.
I can highly recommend the ACTion units mentioned earlier as the "Australian Agent" is just around the corner and his Perkassa flies
Nick
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No li-poly things, just common or garden nicads please...and a submerged shaft
Fine then, use the nicads.
This thing will be terrible on a submerged shaft.
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Andy, what sort of drive should I use then? Any links please?
I feel a large amount of credit card flexing coming... <:(
Rich
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Get yourself back on the Electra website and see if anyone has kit for sale. You need a 1/8" or 3/16" flexi driveshaft set, strut and a helm rudder.
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Thanks Andy...I'm gonna regret this, I know I am. :o
Rich
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Why will a direct drive submerged shaft be terrible...anyone tell me? My old MRH Isotope/Bullet combo used to go like wotname off a shovel, and that had a submerged drive, come to think of it so did my MRH Silak.
Rich
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This hull is designed for surface drive. Putting a submerged drive setup on it will most likely cause it to spin a lot.
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hmm...ok, thanks.
Rich
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There you go Rich,
Get the plastic out and hope it doesn't melt!!!
Bob
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See what the electra lot have for sale, they're bound to have something.
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There you go Rich,
Get the plastic out and hope it doesn't melt!!!
Bob
Lucky the good woman is half way across the other side of the world at the moment, Bob!!!
Rich
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Rich,
But now you aren't going for (a bit of) speed, a lotta speed.
All that specialised equipment, think she just might be a dynamic flyer!!!!
Bob
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Rich,
Just to cheer you up, nice brushless motor for £109-00 and speed controller for it at only £250-00!!!
Check out: http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/
But be sitting down first!!!
Bob
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Just to cheer you up, nice brushless motor for £109-00 and speed controller for it at only £250-00!!!
A nice cheap one then ;) How about this then?
http://www.aeromicro.com/Catalog/axi__5330_double__outrunner_brushless_custom_double_motor_axi5330double_5398643.htm
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'Uggett
Why don't you just flog the hull and buy a Club 500 instead? This is getting a bit exotic..................... :o
FLJ
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'Uggett
Why don't you just flog the hull and buy a Club 500 instead? This is getting a bit exotic..................... :o
FLJ
Exactly what I was thinking, boss...to think all I wanted was a little something to go play with on a Friday afternoon with the lads down on the pond, and Andy has me spending a small fortune.
I think I'll maybe stick to drilling and filing 500 and something flood holes in U-441....
Rich(not at this rate....)
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Ive built one of Glynn Guest's boats, its a crashboat about 20 inches long, with $50 AUS (20 Pounds maybe) motor and speed control, brushless, 10 cell NiMH, it does 25 Kph which is more than enough for a bit of fun, its sub surface drive, straight shaft and only spins out if I REALLY push it.
What you want to do can be done, If you really want to be cheap buy/obtain a cheap cordless drill, motor, speed control and batteries and will only take a little time to convert the trigger into a quasi mechanical/electronic speed control, no it wont be a rocket but it will be fun.
V bottom boats have been running subsurface drive for a loooooong time with good results before all this surface piercing, flexible drive, latest technology :P stuff came out
Nick
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Rich have a look at this setup then go have a look in his shop and get what you need,his prices are pretty good and hes pretty good on shipping too.
Mart
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/25-deep-vee-ARTR-with-motor-and-ESC-racing-spec-red_W0QQitemZ300348683654QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_Control_Vehicles?hash=item45ee2d3586&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262
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This is beginning to frighten the wotsname out of me....the cash outlay, the speed of the projected thing...it was only meant to be a quick 'throw it together and go play' build, and now I'm looking at brushless motors, watercooled everything, rudders and stuff hanging off the back...enough, guys...enough!!!
I'm going to stick to drilling and filing flood holes in U-441, it's considerably cheaper and less strain on my poor old wallet, let alone my old ticker.
Anybody want to buy a unused Zoom2 hull?
Rich
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Hi Rich
Looking at the inside of the blue boat in your pics, I suspect it is a "deep V" hull unlike the Silak which was designed for multi and was a shallow V.
If you use a submerged shaft, it will work, but the extra thrust you will get from the downward angle of the prop will lift the boat too high - the faster you go, the more unstable it gets. With a flexi drive which exits parallel to the hull and at the bottom of the hull "V", the thrust is taken straight back and is more efficient for speed or low powered motors.
If you get a submerged drive set up in the right hull, then you will have sharper steering, but for your hull, I think not.
Can't help with the 'leccy' side though - not my area I'm afraid.
Cheers
Danny
(if it don't make a loud noise and a bad smell - it's broke!)
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Rich,
Notice all the posts recommending this and that are from IC boys.......
10 cells, 700 motor, subsurface, straight shaft, one of those common brass rudders and it will go fine :-)) for what I think you want ;)
Nick
As a note to my first post the boat with the 600 motor is 800 mm long a bit bigger than the Zoom
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nick_75au has the right idea for a SPORTS BOAT start with less cells and add some more if you want to go faster.go for a forward only speed controller as they are cheaper and you wont swamp it going back to fast also go for a 40/60 amp min that way you will loads of leeway for wrong prop choice. it will make a nice fun boat.Oh and keep it light as you can.
Peter
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Gentlemen, time to confess....I've sold this hull to someone on this forum who knows how to get the best out it, it was getting waaaay out of hand, and far too expensive for me.
I've just bought another fast(but not THAT fast)electric, so eyes down for a posting when it arrives. This one is practically a complete kit out of the box, and is designed for a common or garden 540 motor, eight cells and a submerged drive.
Thank you all for all your assistance.... :-))
Rich
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The kit should arrive tomorrow morning, so I'm reliably informed. Stand by...
Rich
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The kit arrived...
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20049.msg193436#msg193436 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20049.msg193436#msg193436)
Rich