Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Boz on November 09, 2009, 09:32:23 pm
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Hi all, this is my first post.
I have a Vic Smeed model boat that my uncle helped me make when I was a lad in the early '80s. I still have it and want to give it a refurbishment and an upgrade.
Specifically, I want to make a new superstructure (closer to the original) and make it RC (was made initially as a straight runner).
It is a planing hull, about 31" long and 9" in the beam.The original image in the catalogue looked like a patrol boat. It is constructed of ply frame with ply skins. It was designed for 1.5 - 3 cc petrol motors, and was supposedly a one-star difficulty, though when we got it, there was a lot more to it. I think the name on the plans might have been Tempest, but it is a long time ago and I cannot be sure. The deck slopes slightly to assist with water run-off. Due to the complexity of the original superstructure, my uncle proposed a simplified design that looks nothing like the original. The aperture in the deck is also larger than on the plans to make access easier.
The original superstructure had quite a lot of angles and had a long window on each side of the bridge, which was set back from the bow. The forrard section of the superstructure sloped down toward the front, and the top of it had a shallow inverted 'V' .
As I type I realise I could be describing hundreds of Vic Smeed designs, so I'm not sure whether the description will be enough for someone to help identify it.
The only other thing I can remember is that the plans came from a place in Hemel Hempstead Herts, and the picture and description were at the bottom of a right hand page in the company's catalogue, which dated from around 1978-80.
Not much to go on, huh?
I will post a photo in the next few days.
Anyone prepared to hazard a guess?
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Hi Boz
Welcome to the site :-))
Your model sounds like Vic Smeeds "Slalome" - a 30" freelance missile launcher for 1.5 - 3.5cc.
The model has "quite a lot of angles and had a long window on each side of the bridge, which was set back from the bow. The forward section of the superstructure sloped down toward the front, and the top of it had a shallow inverted 'V' "
It also has a 1 star difficulty rating.
Might be wrong though :o
Mark.
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Hi Boz, welcome to the madness her. Mark could well be right with the Salome, heres a small & very bad picture of it ( if it comes out) to give you an idea. I'm sure as soon as u post a picture someone will identify it for you, mayhemmers are a helpful bunch :-))
My first 3 boats were all Vic smeed designs, bustler, tiddler & incholm, & i was privillaged to meet the man himself on several ocassions as a young lad. He was one of life's true gentleman & a superb modeler. I doubt there are many others that have contributed so much to getting people started in this great passtime.
good luck with rebuilding your model, theres plenty of help & good advice available here, everyone starts somewhere so don't be shy to ask questions.
cheers Glenn
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You blokes are absolutely brilliant. I haven't seen that picture since 1981-2.
It is definitely that boat, Slalome by Vic Smeed.
I'm amazed that you worked it out so quickly from my rubbish description. What I need to do now is buy the plans, if they can still be found, so I can make that superstructure. I think I'll leave those missiles off it though.
I'll get a photo up here so you can see it.
Thank you.
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I Might have a copy I will have a look tomorrow and let you know. If not you could try the plans service at myhobbystore.com
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You blokes are absolutely brilliant. I haven't seen that picture since 1981-2.
It is definitely that boat, Slalome by Vic Smeed.
I'm amazed that you worked it out so quickly from my rubbish description. What I need to do now is buy the plans, if they can still be found, so I can make that superstructure. I think I'll leave those missiles off it though.
I'll get a photo up here so you can see it.
Thank you.
Here you go.
http://www.myhobbystore.com/7143/XL-Sport-Model-MM-718-Slalome-.html
Mark
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I Might have a copy I will have a look tomorrow and let you know. If not you could try the plans service at myhobbystore.com
Just beet me to the post. O0
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I'll order that ASAP. And for only £8.00 - bargain.
If his name hadn't been so distinctive I wouldn't have remembered that either. It is a very nice looking design but it was very complex to make. I remember my uncle had to make a few additions/variations to the design to make it work. I think with my limited skill and the time it took he (understandably) got a bit tired so simplified the superstructure, as it looked as though it was only slightly less complex than the hull to make.
Have a lot of people made the Slalome? I'd be interested in seeing pics of other people's versions.
Thank you all for your help. I clearly came to the right place!
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hi a bit of a side track, but is Vic Smeed still with us ,I have tyred google but did not fined much on him apart from his plans
aye
john e
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Yes Vic is still around - he stepped in to do a bit of judging at the Luton MBC earlier this year.
Colin
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I have found the drawings Boz (they cost 7/6 ---you might need to check with your grandparents what that is)
Have PM'd you
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Fantastic, many thanks Phil.
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I've taken some photos of my Slalome hull.
Please excuse the 25 year old paint scheme, the next one will be a lot better. As you can see there is not much inside yet. As it is a fictitious design, I have yet to decide what I am going to do for the colour scheme. The deck aperture is bigger than the original, I think on the plans it is narrower towards the front, but I will be able to check that soon. I have decided to make a new superstructure following the original design, though some modifications might be required to take account of the larger deck aperture.
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...and an interior shot...
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I got the plans in the post an hour or so ago - thanks Phil!
I will be stripping the paint from the outside of the hull, do some minor filling and then painting it. I'll then build a superstructure as close as possible in appearance to the plans. The plans show it as being built in 2 pieces, the wheelhouse hinged at the front and the rear deck hinged at the stern. I presume this is to keep it securely attached at the high speeds possible from a IC engine. Mine has an electric motor installed so won't be going as fast. I would prefer not to have visible cabinet hinges (as stated on the plans), so I will probably build it as a one-piece, drop on version. Due to the different shape of the deck aperture, the superstructure will need to be somewhat wider at the front (constant width front to rear without the taper to match the aperture). It will be a few mm higher to fit over the coaming but will be otherwise look as it does on the plans.
Once all that is done, I'll fit it out for RC.
It is a very good-looking design, and I'm looking forward to seeing it as Vic intended.
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Hi Boz.
A thought!!! Why not make a false deck/Plug in unit the full size of the present opening and build the superstructure on this and then you can build as per the plan.
pomybill %) >>:-( O0
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Yes that is definitely an option. I am also thinking of modding the coaming at the front so that the superstructure will not need to extend so far forward.
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hi there.
just been looking at the model in a local paper.
the section was the way we were.
it was a photo in the times and star in cumbria and it's the local model club in the early 80's.
the hair cuts we had. {-)
all the best
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Am acquiring bits and pieces to commence the Slalome refurbishment. Can anyone steer me in the direction of someone who sells 1/8" and 1/16" ply? A local search has not been successful; 3/16" is the thinnest I've found thus far.
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Where are you? You will want a local(ish) supplier
Inwood models in Huntingdon sell the required ply, but if you have to have it posted it would probably be extremely expensive.
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Found some sites that sell it, will give them a call this week. Nothing local so will see how it goes in the post.
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Have obtained some 1/8 and 1/16 plywood and some other bits and pieces from www.slecuk.com. Arrived very punctually and good service.
The superstructure will look very similar to the original but be one-piece, and I've worked out the detail of how to make it marry up. I will also need to modify the deck and make the aperture smaller and narrov toward the front, and I've done some detailed drawings on how to make that work. The height of the coaming will need to be reduced somewhat.
I've also found a WW2 MGB colour scheme at http://www.hslmouldings.co.uk/71ft_6in_mgb.htm that I like, so will use this as an inspiration.
Now I'm on holiday for 3 weeks I aim to make a proper start, so I'll keep you posted and take photos as I go.
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Hi Bluebird, There is an article coming up v.soon in Model Boats reviewing the annual exhibition that the St. Albans model engineering society held in St. Albans. Vic Smeed agreed to be one of our judges and there is a photo of him in the article. (Is that the reference to judging you made Colin?)
He also came to our Christmas evening a few weeks ago, and he is definitely 'still with us'. He and his wife winning one of our competitions.
He still has a very quick mind and is charming to talk to.
At the exhibition I introduced him to the current editor of the Meccano Magazine and Vic said "Oh, I used to edit that".
I did ask him a few personal questions, which he did not mind me sharing.
1 When did you sail your first model boat and he said that was in 1929. My guess is that he was about 9 years old then.
2, Were you a Spitfire pilot? "Yes", he said "I was from 1943".
There were a few anecdotes, including, one of his model aircraft plans is the most copied and made in the world.
Somebody actually made a full size aircraft from one of his model plans and put a VW engine in it and flew it. He was eventually stopped as there was no official airworthyness certificate and it was impounded. He wanted it back but was only allowed to with the engine removed.
The free sailing boat plan in MMI plans was designed after a recent visit to St. Albans lake.
I think that Vic has gone back to flying model aircraft now.
regards Roy
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I have made a start on the deck, cutting out and inserting a piece to narrow it toward the front as per the original plans. Amazing how those skills learned when I was a child come back so easily after such a long time!
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As the sub-title of the 'Model Boating' forum says, I didn't know exactly where to put this post (is it a military/working/other vessel?), so I'm sure one of the mods will move it to the appropriate place.
I posted on here a couple of months ago about a boat I had built (well my uncle did the lion's share) way back in 1980/81. I remembered it was a Vic Smeed design, and that it was a fast launch, but could not remember the name of the design. Well, some helpful people on here helped me and I found out that it was 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed, which was described as a "...30in freelance missile launcher with intriguing construction technique and hull form which is very manoeuvrable. 1.5 to 3.5cc ic ".
As I related in the original thread http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20687.0 it was built with a simplified superstructure that looked nothing like the original on the plan. The deck aperture is also modified, the original had 2 separate compartments of different shapes, while my version has only one large one that is longer and narrower. My search was prompted by the desire to refurbish it and give it a nice paint job to a higher standard than I was capable of all those years ago. I decided I also wanted a superstructure more in keeping with the original design. Once refurbed, I will convert it to RC and see how it goes. It was built originally as a straight runner so mine has an electric motor, not IC, so it is a bit more sedate than the original.
Thanks to Phil I received the plans and set about acquiring all the bits and pieces I needed.
Over the Christmas break I have done some work so thought I would let you know how I've got on.
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Here is a comparison of the 1981 iteration, and the 2009 modification for the new superstructure. A plug has been put in the front of the aperture made of 3/8" plywood to give the new coaming something to sit on. The new coaming is yet to be made. Amidships, cuts have been made for the new superstructure in preparation for dividing the aperture into 2 parts as per the original. I have also reduced the height of the original coaming to the same as on the plan (7/16"). This was necessitated by the superstructure design.
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The plans show the original superstructure as built in 2 pieces, with the front being hinged at the front where it meets the deck, and the rear also hinged, but at the stern end. No doubt at the high speeds of a IC engine this method would ensure it was secure. The front part tapers toward the front, and overlaps with the constant-width rear section by means of an overlap.
I did not like the look of hinges, and I also thought the overlapped junction of the separate pieces disrupted the clean lines. Therefore I decided to build it as a single piece, drop-on superstructure, with an angled join slightly further forward, in a line with the rear face of the wheelhouse (if you look carefully at the plan in the bottom picture you can see the original vertical overlap join just to the rear of the wheelhouse). To make the 2 pieces marry up it was necessary to make the rear section 1/4" wider and make it of 1/8" ply instead of 1/16" for added rigidity and to enable a strong join where the pieces met. The front of the 1/8" rear section is bevelled and the 1/16" wheelhouse sides are glued on, then the wood is filed and sanded down for a smooth join. The ply glue 'stripes' can be seen as a result. A little filler was necessary here and there to fill in pin holes and tidy up small blemishes - this is all very simple work compared to some of the multi-layer planking that some on here manage so well!
The last photo shows the superstructure in place. Overall, the result looks very much as Vic Smeed intended. There is still some minor fitting to be done as it does not quite sit flush at the rear, but since the photo was taken this has been largely solved. The middle deck piece and coaming are still to be made.
The next piece of work will be to strip the hull exterior and to smooth everything down ready for paint. There is a piece of brass rod to protect the bow tthat needs to be dressed down a bit (especially the mounting brackets for it, and some filling is needed here and there.
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Looks nice :-)) :-)) Ha, 7 and a half bob for the plan {-)
Should be running soon, thanks for sharing.
Phil
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Nice job Boz, I'm glad the plans have at last got some use, cant wait to see the finished boat.
Are you goig to put the missle on the back, as it just so happens I have something that might do (a small rocket to be more precise) :-))
The other Phil
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Phil, my initial feeling was to leave the rockets off the model. However having built the superstructure, it looks a bit empty back there. I will ponder on it some more. Thank you very much for the suggestion.
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OK, I've finished the superstructure - one of the more time-consuming bits was to get it to sit flat on the deck due to those 1980-81 slight irregularities fitting the 6-piece deck!
The hull needs to be sanded down and repainted externally, which is the next task.
For the colour scheme I've decided on something inspired by this as it is something a bit interesting and different: http://www.hslmouldings.co.uk/71ft_6in_mgb.htm
I've also decided to put the rockets on the back as per the original design, so Steamboat Phil I will PM you to discuss!
What I need to do now is find some paints (preferably spray-cans) in a primer, gloss white, gloss teal green/blue, gloss black and satin naval grey. Vic Smeed's Slalome is a fictitious design so authenticity isn't really an issue. I want to use all the same brand of paint if possible to minimise compatibility issues.
I will peruse the relevant forum pages to have a look for ideas, but has anyone got any suggestions?
Now for the more difficult stuff I know little about: batteries and radio control gear. I have had an initial read of the intro pages on this forum which are very useful, and further research is needed. The motor fitted (type/model unknown) was powered by a motorcycle battery (voltage??), but things have moved on since then. I am simply looking at getting it on the water at this stage, so am interested in a reasonably basic, simple but robust set-up. The motor, gearbox, propshaft, prop and rudder are ready to go. It is just the RC gear and batteries I need to address. Any suggestions gratefully received.
What sort of lubrication would the gearbox/propshaft need? There is a bung on top of the gearbox that gives access to internal components, so it appears lubrication of some form is needed.
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Looks lovely. As I can see there are lot of items in your boat ... I took a closer look at the blueprint :} Great work man :-))
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21809.0;attach=77794;image)
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An update - rebuild proceeding apace. Hull is currently being refurbished and prep for paint. Superstructure primed and am doing plenty of research for R/C system, batteries etc, for which this site has been very helpful. Am also receiving significant tech support from my uncle with whom I built it in the first place.
Has anyone here dealt with Cornwall Model Boast and/or Ripmax? Any opinions about either or both? I'm about to buy a bunch of RC gear and accessories from one of these places, so opinions would be welcome.
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Looking great! Cornwall model boats were very efficient the few times i've used them and don't seem to have a bad word said about them
Usual disclaimers.
Greg
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An update about my Slalome. Today I ordered a bunch of stuff from Cornwall Model Boats including a Futaba 6-channel 2.4Ghz r/c set, MTroniks ESC, battery pack and charger and some other miscellaneous niff-naff. Even bought a new soldering iron and electronics solder, and have all the paint ready to go. In the next 2 weeks (though am away a bit for work) I hope to make some serious progress. I went for a NiMH battery pack instead of SLA as finding a SLA with the right dimensions was difficult (esp with regard to height) and they were quite heavy - I want to keep the weight down so the 6v electric motor isn't dragging too much around I will need to check carefully how the ballasting goes - it needs 500g total weight near the stern to trim correctly and the battery pack only weighs 325g. Still, the other r/c kit, receiver batteries etc will add some weight, and I'll see how it goes together.
Since my last bulletin I have spent a lot of time sanding down and filling the hull and addressing some minor symmetry issues. I've now sorted it, and just need a little more minor work before installing the new chine strip and a further coat of primer.
Will upload some photos in the near future showing progress since January. Still mulling over details of finished boat, and have got some inspiration from Dark and Brave Class craft. Even though it is a fictitious craft I am going for a 1950s-60s RN-type look.
I don't suppose anyone has photos of other people's versions of Vic Smeed's "Slalome" do they? I'd like to see how other people made them.
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hi boz, sounds like you sorted out the rc equipment well. a good choice. i also think going for the nimh instead of the sla was a good move, I'm sure the weight saving will improve the performance considerably.
Looking forward to seeing the photos & the finished model
keep up the good work
cheers Glenn
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Mt R/C gear from Cornwall Model Boats was delivered on Fri. Here are some photos, with the Slalome included in its primer state, which how it will stay to avoid damaging the final finish while working on it until the R/C installation is all worked out and tested. I will then remove the R/C gear and paint the boat in its final colours, before final fit out of the R/C gear and prep for sea trials!
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The nimh battery is quite a bit smaller than I thought. It will actually fit across the beam, meaning I can get more flexibility in sorting weight distribution. I have been playing around with the positioning of the various bits of kit to get an idea of how it will work. The 2.4GHz antennae (there are two of them coming out of the receiver) are quite short, but have to be spread apart. I now need to position the gear to make sure there is as little interference as possible. I have noise suppression kit made by my uncle, and this will help. In outline the plan is to run the tick wires down one side, and the thin ones (to/from receiver) down the other. I think I need to get the ESC and receiver as afar as possible apart, and keep the receiver away from the motor too.
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Here is an internal photo, there is plenty of space, now to get the positioning right.
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Looks nice :-)) :-)) Ha, 7 and a half bob for the plan {-)
Should be running soon, thanks for sharing.
Phil
That would be "seven and a tanner" (tanner = sixpence piece) What a great job you`ve done. ref Vic Smeed`s most popular model aircraft, that would be the immortal "Tomboy". A free-flight job for 1cc deisels with optional floats for waterplane ops. I built one the month it came out in Aeromodeller magazine in 19** , not telling, so long ago I forget !
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Just noticed the RX battery , get some advice on use of the BEC (battery eliminator circuit) there is a choice of powering your reciever off the main battery or the smaller Rx one shown. Simple you only need to cut one wire but consider the choices. The lads and lasses on here will advise.
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Many thanks, will take a look at that.
Have been geographically separated from the boat for the last few months hence the lack of updates. Only 2 months to go until I return - looking forward to getting back into it! Should be on the water not long after Christmas! Spray painting in the cold might be a bit challenging with the paint dribbles, slow drying resulting from low temperatures but we will see.
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In preparation for my return to the UK, and resumption of the Slalome rebuild, I have been doing a bit of research when time allows to see if there is any info out there about the Slalome design and people's builds. Not a lot out there I have to say, but I'm slowly managing to find out more.
I found this: http://www.payhost.net/modelling/acatalog/Model__Boats.html where back issues of old model boat-related magazines are for sale.
I also found out that there was a 3-part series in Model Maker magazine, in the Dec 62, Jan 63 and Jun 63 issues, which appear to include the Slalome plans and a building series, including an article (Part 3) entitled "First Trials".
I've put my name down for the next available copies of these issues for sale on the website above, but it might well be some time before they become available.
Has anyone got copies of these issues they want to sell/scan? Or know where some might be for sale?
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I found this tiny picture at the bottom of an old MAP plans listing..
(http://s2.postimage.org/KKZTA.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2mx2lg5k4/)
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Many thanks - the best quality version I've seen for a long time. I think that is the original listing I saw back in 1979/80.
I arrived back in the UK today, winter weather ideal for some inside work on the model. I will start interior fit-out work in the next few days.
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Back in the UK now and have been working on Slalome. I've cut out the deck pieces and coaming alternations. I've also built the subframe that will have the batteries, ESC, servos all attached to it and installed in the hull as a single unit. The battery sits in a compartment for the purpose and can be removed on its own though. Wiring will be cable tied to the subframe, I've saved some pictures from posts on this forum of some very neat installations to give me some ideas on how to arrange things.
I'm working up to the delicate soldering job to install the noise suppression gear. Once that is done I will get everything working and tested prior to disassembly for painting. The hull still needs some work on the exterior to get it just right.
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The rockets would have given the helmsman a drastic haircut and a nasty case of sunburn if they were ever fired! Still, those were the days of Dan Dare...
Colin
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Today I received scans of a 3 article series written by Vic Smeed about the design and build of the prototype Slalome from a very helpful ebay seller, who sent me scans of the articles from Model Maker magazine in December 1962, January 1963 and June 1963. I have been looking for copies of these articles for several months. In the articles Vic Smeed describes his criteria for the Slalome design. He also describes the build of the prototype, saying that it had received compliments from builders for its performance and manoeuvrability and that a copy of the plan had even been featured in an Iron Curtain modelling magazine! I have found the articles of historical interest and look forward to comparing notes when I get my example on the water shortly.
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(http://s4.postimage.org/48bac0tg/IMG_2071.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/48bac0tg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/48wsbj8k/IMG_2070.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/48wsbj8k/)
An update on the Slalome rebuild - the top image shows the trial fitment of the RC gear and battery which is mounted on a ply 'floor' which is held in with locating lugs and a bolt that screws into the reinforcement around the rudder post. Still a bit of work to get it just right.
The exterior has been sanaded down again as I was not quite happy with the finish. In particular some work was needed at the bow before the new chine strips (now fitted and visible in the picture) could be attached. Now I need to do the soldering and install the noise suppression gear - a job I have been putting off as I don'twant to mess it up! I will finish by the end of the week, and then the hull can be painted and sea trials can commence!
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Hi all, I completed the soldering of the wiring onto the noise reduction choke board tonight, and am making progress on the rest of the interior fit-out. Next is the rudder linkage and then connect everything up while charging batteries for a trial in the bath to see whether it all works! I am not very experienced at soldering, so am hoping the connections are OK! More photos soon.
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OK have fitted noise suppression gear, hooked everything up and charged the batteries. I have a separate receiver battery and have remembered to cut the BEC wire. The rudder servo responds to controls, although will need setup and adjustment to get it right for the water (and only responds to up/down plane not left/right). The ESC LEDs flash for a couple of seconds (set-up phase during which I move throttle forward as per instructions) but then when LEDs stop flashing there is a high pitched noise from the motor but prop does not turn (prop is not obstructed and can be turned by hand) nor does it respond to throttle inputs. Next step is to do a search on here to see what might be causing it.
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Hi Boz
When you move the throttle to full ahead, do you then move it to full astern during the set up procedure ? This would complete the set up.
Regarding the up/down movement of the rudder, you have probable used the wrong slot on the R/X. Try then slot next to it.
Also does it work on the BEC line as this would save you a battery.
Regards
ken
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hi boz . nice model tried to get copy of plan on web link , but no longer av able, is there copy any wear else ........ Larry w.
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Larry,
I have seen them for sale on ebay etc. When you say weblink do you mean here: http://www.myhobbystore.com/product/21172/mm-718-slalome ? It is still listed as available.
Regards,
Boz
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Ken,
I should have explained more fully - yes I do move it all the way forward and then all the way back during ESC setup procedure as per instructions but no reaction from throttle inputs at all - even after setup completed. High pitched noise from motor remains until I turn the ESC off. At least I know current is getting to motor and the RC gear works, but might have wrong channel set on Tx or some other schoolboy error. This is my very first time doing this. It is a Futaba 2.4gHz designed for aircraft and is quite complex to set up for a novice and I think re-reading of instructions is required.
Regards,
Boz
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hi try another slot ,with radio on, and try a different stick mix and wining could be you are to close to model, or Aerial on model to close to running gear, also do forget centre trims. Larry
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Hi Larry as you and Ken suggested I played around with slot and stick mix and I now get a change in the tone of the noise coming from the motor when I move the throttle, which suggests that the throttle inputs are being received by receiver and relayed to motor by the ESC and there is power getting to the motor. However, the propeller does not turn, although it can be turned by hand.
Boz
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I wonder if your problem could be mode-related?
Radio control sets for aircraft are designed either:
Mode 1 - elevator/rudder on left stick, throttle/ailerons on right stick
or Mode 2 - throttle/rudder on left stick, elevator/ailerons on right stick.
If you have plugged a rudder servo into the receiver socket marked 'rudder', you must use the left stick to control that, and depending on mode, the right or left stick for throttle....
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Dodgy,
The way it ended up after experimenting is that the right stick forward/back controls throttle (and change in tone in motor noise as stick is moved but no prop movement) and left/right on same (right) stick controls rudder servo which operates normally. Left stick does nothing at present. Once I get the motor working normally I will change this, but at present I want to solve the motor problem.
Boz
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hi BOZ , try this remove motor , and do a static test out side model check solder joints you say you fitted suppressors, ,
also whose esc are you using ?, also are you trying to run a radio battery pack a long side it ?
you could have a duff unit , what batt pac and motor are you using?
i allways do a mock set up and test out side model be fore fitting and range test ,......... LARRY.. O0
PS ,also remove radio power pack , and just plug in running pack . BUT / check out ESC IS COMPATLBE? again whos ESC ARE YOU USEING?????? .
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Larry,
Tried it again, got the propeller to turn but not very fast using throttle, and only in one direction (pulling back on stick, did not turn when stick pushed forwards but noise continued with chenge in tone as stick moved). I have noise suppression, and you are right solder joints could be an issue as I am not the most experienced solderer. I did double check the joints when I did them. So the motor definitely works. The problem lies somewhere in the motor itself (it is quite old) or in my connections to it. The ESC is a Viper 25.
Boz
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boz , try another motor , or redo all solder joints, you ok just use running battt pack , you do not need radio pack....... LARRY ........
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Boz, in addition to all the sage suggestions already given, another reason for your ESC not to work might be because that it's not compatible with your 2.4GHz radio. Most every 2.4GHz transmitter emits a lower-voltage pulse signal than their 27MHz, 35MHz or 40MHz counterparts. To prove the point, is it possible that you could try your ESC with a transmitter other than 2.4GHz? I have known at least two MTroniks to fail with 2.4GHz sets, but the problem was soon remedied in both instances by simply beefing-up the pulse signal with a simple 2-transistor booster which connects between your receiver and your ESC.
If your ESC does indeed work with, say, a 40MHz transmitter, would you like one of the aforementioned signal boosters in order for the ESC to work with your 2.4GHz set?
Alternatively, is it possible that you might loan another make/model of ESC to try?
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Had another play just now and got prop to turn again. I kept the throttle on and after a few seconds it gradually started spinning faster. When it spins, the loud motor whine I described above gets quieter.
My next step will be to re-prime the hull so the chine strips are protected from water and run it in the bath to see if there is further improvement.
Thanks for all the suggestions - I am totally new to the RC business and the superior knowledge of others is a great help.
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Hi,
Some latest photos:
The top shows the trial fit of the PCB for the noise suppression, note the second capacitor has not yet been attached. The second photo shows the PCB before being soldered in and the instructions sent by my uncle for installation - the same uncle who I built this with in the early 1980s. The third shows the trial fitment of the middle deck piece - I am leaving the final gluing in until all the fiddly work has been done.
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I have reprimed hull after all the filling and sanding down ready for bath testing and drawing on the waterline. It is amazing how the coat of primer shows those little imperfections I didn't know were there! Luckily noting that a light sand couldn't fix. I tested the motor again this morning, and it has definitely responded to a little use, now responding reasonably well to throttle inputs, much better than yesterday. However, it does not yet reverse and only works when the stick on the Tx is pulled back. But nonetheless it is significant progress - the prop turned under its own power for the first time in over 20 years! Very satisfying. Although it is not yet all perfectly set up I am pleased that in broad terms sit all actually works!
Once some bath testing is conducted, the remainder of the coaming and new deck insert piece will be glued in and primed, then the paint job can be applied and a proper sea trial can be conducted.
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hi boz, looked at motor ,today looks vintage , i would put a fuse link in circuit just for safety.
do you no the make of motor/......BEST OF LUCK ...LARRY... :-))
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Larry, the motor is about 25 - 30 years old. t is 6v but I don't know the make, there are no markings at all on it. The gearbox was scratch-built by my uncle and is a work of art. Agree about the fuse - I will put one in the battery +ve wire when I can find a suitable fuse holder. I remember my uncle saying the performance would be leisurely and that it will probably not even get up on the plane, although the hull according to the Vic Smeed articles is a good planing hull and very manoeuverable. The prop will also contribute to less-than-optimum performance; it is hand made and soldered - I did it myself all those years ago under the tutelage of my uncle, 2 blades cut from brass soldered to a boss shaped on a lathe with a file, so it is nicely made and looks good but is un-balanced and has quite heavy blunt blades designed for minimising injury if young hands went there they shouldn't at the expense of performance. It was not an idle concern - 30 years later one of my fingernails is still slightly differently shaped as a result of this boat build - I was cutting one of the hull skins and instead the scalpel went straight through the fingernail near the top. Despite the fact that the performance will probably not set the world on fire, I've decided to leave the running gear as is and get it on the water and enjoy it. If/when the motor breaks I could then think about putting something a bit quicker in there, get a lighter, balanced prop etc. But for now the leisurely performance will be of benefit to the RC novice!
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WHAT A GOOD REPLY,hope all goes well and don't forget pictures, also wheres your local pool?....
will it be Gloucester docks?........ and mind those fingers they come as set of 10 {-)........LARRY.....
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your problem could lie in the vintage motor not working in harmony with the more modern esc and radio , do you have or can you borrow a more modern 540 type motor to test it with ?
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There are plenty of lakes around here, just need to find the right one.
The motor has freed up a lot, part of the problem was more than 2 decades of inactivity.
Tried it out in the bath just now - it goes quite well and the motor is working quite well although I still can't get reverse. I marked the waterline on the hull with a pencil as well. The bow does lift a little when power is applied so it will be fast enough I think. The rudder and Tx programming need refinement and I need an inline fuse holder between the battery and the ESC. I also need an earth wire from the black battery cable to the earth point on the port gearbox mounting screw.
Later today I will sort out a few preparation for painting, and hopefully start tomorrow.
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where are you in gloucestershire ? lots of lake around ciren. if memory serves me right there is even a model boat club using one of them ! lake in the middle of pittville park cheltenham , easy accsess and free parking !
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hi a lot of nostalgia there hope the motor holds out , don't for get lubricate prop shaft :-)) larry.
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Yes, I am not very far from Cirencester. I should find out about the model boat club. Thanks for the tip about Cheltenham.
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there are also a few lakes near kemble , but not having been there for a few years i cant remember how to get to them ( used to deliver golf tees around the area )
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hi JON., all lakes round kemble are private, or fishing pools ........LARRY.
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could tell who owns any of them , i remember that coming from bath through kemble we used to turn right and down a lane and into a lake on the right , but it was around 8 years ago & ive been thousands of miles since then ! still might be worth asking if they would let model boats operate on private lakes ? . alternativly whats wrong with the sharpness canal , or the stroud canal , stroud is not only close to the m5 j 13 but there is a layby right next to canal and main road !
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I know of a lake in tewkesbury that you could look at using, i have used it for running my 26cc 2 stroke boat so i am sure you would be fine running yours. During the warmer months you can only run after 5pm due to activities on the water but you may be able to run at a more sensible time if the lake is quiet.
give them a call, number is on this site:
http://www.croftfarmleisure.co.uk/
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Great info on prospective use of lakes etc.
Yesterday I cut out all the glazing for the wheelhouse. It is made from a small sheet of 1mm perspex-like stuff that came as some packing with a piece of mail - perfect and didn't cost me a thing! It was only just big enough but it all worked out. All the glazing pieces fit in their prospective places. I did the glazing at this stage as I have glued in pieces of ply that locate it and hold it in place, and I wanted to paint the inside of the superstructure with the location pieces already in place for neatness.
As you can see from the picture, you can also see that yesterday I installed all the remaining coaming pieces and the piece of deck dividing the 2 compartments. The coaming is supposed to be 1/8" but I have made the new pieces 1/16" with a reinforcing strip around the top so at first glance it looks 1/8". This was done as the deck insert piece at the front (as you can see from the earlier posts in this thread) was 1/8" as it would not have been very rigid if the required 1/16". This is thicker than it should have been but was the best solution to get a good result. The coaming is made thinner as it does not have to reinforce the deck at this point (the 1/8" ply does that by itself!), and it means the total weight (use of material) will be about the same; a compensating weight reduction if you will. The reason for all this is that the hull as built had a different shaped aperture from the plan, and it needed to be altered so that the superstructure from Vic Smeed's plan fits on there. Now it is substantially as per the plan, although slightly narrower in places (the constant-width part is narrower - the taper toward the front is as per the plan). I left it this way as removing the deck to rebuild as per the plan might have caused unnecessary damage. The piece of deck that divides the 2 compartments is a good fit and remains in place without gluing. I have not yet glued it in as I wanted to paint the underside first, and then I discovered that plugging in a couple of wires to the wiring loom is very difficult with it in place. So I might leave it detachable, we'll see.
Today's task will be to paint the waterline in final colour (black), and when it is touch dry I will turn the model over and paint the deck.
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Well, I've got on with the painting and here are the results. The pics are not the best, due to the poor lighting they are flash photos, but I will take some better ones later on. As originally designed it is a light missile carrying craft, so I chose an appropriate colour scheme, which is inspired by WW2 MGB colour schemes such as those found here http://www.hslmouldings.co.uk/71ft_6in_mgb.htm although as I've said earlier the vessel is a fictitious one as stated by the designer, Vic Smeed, authenticity is not an issue. There are a few flaws in the paintwork that need to be fixed up, and this will be done when the paint is properly hardened in a week or so. I have some RN pennant numbers which will be applied to the hull, and the number chosen is the MM plan number - 718. In terms of further detail, I've got some bollards/cleats etc, but definitely a lightly detailed "semi-scale" look though.
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looking good are you going to glass the windows
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Yes, already cut out and ready for installation - I glued location pieces inside that will hold the glass in so it just sits in there with a press fit. There are a few paint touch ups to sort before I put the glass in there.
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And the BIG question - are you going to go for full authenticity and mount two missiles on the rear hatch...?
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Hmmm, still thinking about it. Now that most of the work has been done I've started looking into it. I've been looking at pictures of 1960s missile craft on the net, and working out how it might be done, as such craft (real ones) do not seem to have the missiles exposed to the elements as on the Vic Smeed plan, but are in some form of tube or can.
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They didn't keep Bloodhounds in cans.
Regards Ian.
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I fitted the wheelhouse glazing that I had prepared previously. You can also see in the photos that the paint hasn't been buffed back with steel wool yet.
Ian thanks for the Bloodhound suggestion, I've just been trawling the net for info.
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Hmmm, still thinking about it. Now that most of the work has been done I've started looking into it. I've been looking at pictures of 1960s missile craft on the net, and working out how it might be done, as such craft (real ones) do not seem to have the missiles exposed to the elements as on the Vic Smeed plan, but are in some form of tube or can.
I don't think the original design was meant to be completely scale-like - it was a 'fantasy' craft. I was thinking about being 'authentic' to the original design rather than any real-life example. Do you have access to the original plans, which presumably incorporate the 'rocket structure'? I suspect that this was removable, anyway...
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Dodgy, you are absolutely right, it is not designed to be scale-like. I have got the original plan and have come up with an idea of how to make it work. I've bought 2 Bristol Bloodhound Airfix kits for a very reasonable price on ebay which will be the basis of the missiles (will be lengthened to the same dimension as shown on the boat plan).
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I've bought 2 Bristol Bloodhound Airfix kits for a very reasonable price on ebay which will be the basis of the missiles (will be lengthened to the same dimension as shown on the boat plan).
I bought one of those myself (memories of kit making in the 1950s)...but won't they be a bit delicate? I would guess that the original design just has two sanded broomsticks with some slotted fins at one end....
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It says on the plans to make the rockets from tube/dowel or 'adapted toys', as shown. I haven't actually seen one of the Airfix kits so you may well be right regarding their suitability. However I'm hoping they should have some parts that are of use...
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Airfix ones will be too small/fragile but a scaled up version from tougher materials should surfice.
Regards Ian
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Thanks for the advice, I've cancelled the purchase. Unfortunately I've just found out my Paypal account is locked as Paypal is auditing my security details, so the seller probably thinks the 2 events are linked, and hence that I am dodgy in some way!!
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The Bristol Bloodhound is a great kit and was a favourite of mine at school - you get a Land Rover, a transporter, a launch pad AND the missile to build, as well as several men and a dog...
But the missile body is 3 1/2" long, and 1/4" wide. You need a 7" x 1" body. I suspect none of the parts will be of use...
Still, you will be able to do a wonderful diorama - or a missile base would fill a section of your railway....
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I've almost finished the painting - I've gone through the cycle where correcting one paint flaw creates another and so on and so on. There is still a bit of touching up to do and initially I was not quite convinced by the grey/green colour I'd chosen (the range of colours in spray paint is always so much more limited than in tins) but now it has gone off and been buffed with steel wool it looks much better.
The prop turns by hand much more easily now I've lubed the prop shaft. My uncle suggested that 30 years of inactivity had perhaps caused a bit of corrosion in the motor which would prevent it turning freely, so the end bearing of the motor got a drop or two of oil as well.
I am still working on the missile idea, scratch-built seems to be the way to go.
Finishing touches take almost as long as building it in the first place!
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Although it doesn't look much different from the last set of photos, a lot of painting and finishing have been done. The deck and waterline needed repainting, and the RC gear has been reinstalled and tested. I now have the throttle and steering working quite well, though as always some further fettling will be needed with settings on the Futaba T6EX 2.4 gHz Tx, as it is originally designed for aircraft and there are all sorts of end point settings and the like that need to be adjusted. I gave it a further test in the bath last night and now have found reverse. When at a constant throttle setting the motor does oscillate a bit in tone, a cycle taking several seconds. This might be down to the fact I have not yet earthed the battery black wire. However, it is nothing major.
As you can see after doing some paint touch-ups I applied the BECC RN-type pennant numbers. The number '718' is actually the MM plans number that can be seen at the bottom right of the Slalome plan. As it is a fictitious craft I felt that was in keeping, and the RN numbers make it look a bit more like a naval vessel, especially before I build the missiles and install them on the rear of the superstructure. I prefer the RN style numbers over the US-style shaded italic types.
The batteries, ESC and so on in the rear compartment are all mounted to a single ply 'deck', with the wiring held down by cable ties. I elected to use a separate receiver battery so that the it can still be steered if power is running low, and for weight distribution reasons. The deck is removable by unplugging the 2 motor wires and undoing the rudder servo linkage and a single screw that secures the deck to a captive nut just forward of the rudder post. In this way minimal strain is put on the wiring and the whole thing can be removed for adjustment or maintenance. It is also easier to work on building the deck and installing/adjusting gear outside the boat. Because the deck opening is slightly narrower than the original, there isn't a great deal of room and mounting the RC gear in this way makes things a bit more convenient. The batteries still need something to secure them to the deck, so that they do not move about.
A single removable box for the battery and RC gear was actually part of Vic Smeed's concept for the design.
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I am still working on the missile idea, scratch-built seems to be the way to go.
I must admit, I am watching this thread for the missile build. When I looked through the plans pictures all those years ago it was always the pair of missiles on the rear decking which made this boat stand out from the crowd, and since the pictures were so small I often wondered what the full-size boat would look like with them on...
If it were me, I would be thinking of two different diameter lengths of plumbers plastic tube, or plastic electrical conduit. The nose, beveled junction in the middle and tailpipe would be made of bits of old broomstick, which I would turn by mounting in a drill and sanding down....
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Yes, I've never seen another full-size Slalome model either - only the plans illustration and the equally indistinct photos in the Model Maker 1963 article.
On another note, can anyone advise where I might buy a connector like the small one at the end of these thin wires coming from the battery?
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It's hard to see - is it one of these: http://www.giantcod.co.uk/female-connector-12cm-long-silicon-wire-p-402548.html at 69p?
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Apologies, wasn't a very good photo. Better one is here...
That website looks good too. Very helpful thank you Dodgy.
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Inaugural sailing!!!!
Here are some photos taken earlier this afternoon of the inaugural sailing. All systems operated well and there was battery power to spare. There is still some fine-tuning needed for the rudder - it turns slightly to port when the rudder is centralised and needs correction, but not really a problem. The geared down 6v motor is not powerful enough to get it anywhere near a plane, which is what the hull is designed for when fitted with IC engines. It moves at a reasonable clip though, and the range of the Futaba 6EX was very good indeed. The manoeuvrability is excellent, unsurprising as the hull form is designed for it, and it is helped along by a larger rudder than shown on the plan. Some inquisitive ducks followed it at a safe distance!
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Apologies, wasn't a very good photo. Better one is here...
Use one of these. You get a male and a female for 42p...
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One thing I forgot to mention earlier was that my Viper ESC has a push-button for set-up. The push-button was not very obvious and I think this partly sorted my previous problem with reverse and setting up ESC. The remainder was down to my motor being partially seized due to 25 years of inactivity.
With this type the set-up button needs to be pushed and for 2 sec afterwards move throttle lever fully forward and fully back so it remembers settings. While it is more difficult to find (button is not obvious, especially if told that ESC is in set-up mode when switched on as some other models do this without a push-button). However it is more convenient when already set up, as the settings are more resistant to accidental change than non push-button models which can have settings accidentally changed if throttle lever is moved in first 2 seconds after being switched on.
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Use one of these. You get a male and a female for 42p...
Whoops, sorry - just noticed I have not included the url on my last mssage - here it is:
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/30cm-servo-extension-p-211.html
If it's not a JR servo connector, here is a Futaba connector for the same price...
http://www.giantcod.co.uk/30cm-futaba-servo-extension-p-403615.html
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Excellent, just the ticket!
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Nice job Boz
I've still got the model rocket (just the one sadly) if you want to have a go at seeing how it might look, let me know.
Phil
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...if you want to have a go at seeing how it might look, let me know.
Yes, seeing a Salome with the pair of rockets on the back as originally designed would satisfy one of my lifetime aspirations...
(I have never had soaring ambitions... {:-{ )
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The Giantcod site posted by Dodgy has excellent stuff, reasonably priced. I'll be definitely using it in future.
Phil, thank you for the offer, but as 2 missiles are required I will scratch-build both of them using dowel and ply according to the plan. Am ordering some bits and pieces (dowel of appropriate size, more 1/8" square section etc) for missile build.
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Conducted more sea trials yesterday. My wife even brought some champagne for a ceremonial launching! As I said the powertrain is not going to result in a fast vessel, so I placed a GPS in the vessel and tried it at top speed, and recorded a top speed of 2.1mph, which won't break any speed records! The photo shows Slalome at almost full chat. It looks to me as though she needs more ballast in the back, as the bow is ploughing through the water. The brass rod bow protector (installed as her original role was as a straight runner) won't be helping. There are ways to get a bit more speed out of her; the battery negative earth wire should improve things, as could a 7.2v battery instead of a 6v. Eventually I am going to get a more efficient prop. I don't want to change things too much, but make her a little more lively. Handling is excellent and she turns with alacrity due to to the manoeuvrable hull form and the large rudder.
I still haven't got the materials for the missiles yet, but when I get a moment I'll get it all ordered!
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Nice work there, Boz. It's good to see a classic boat design - by none other than Vic Smeed - brought back to life. More pictures would be nice when you get a chance.
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Thanks, great to know others are interested in the design too.
I'm about to start work on it again. The next stage will be the missiles and rejigging the running gear to get the balance point further towards the rear.
I'll get some more photos up too.
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More Photos: