Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: Jake Bullit on November 18, 2009, 02:29:08 PM

Title: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on November 18, 2009, 02:29:08 PM
http://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38_143&products_id=3614&osCsid=7edb6eab7413034f627df66bd130f491

http://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3615&osCsid=7edb6eab7413034f627df66bd130f491

Could anyone tell me if these boats are basically the same .I am thinking of getting one and there is a big price difference.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: tigertiger on November 18, 2009, 03:11:36 PM
I think they are quiet differrent
Voyager info here http://www.voyager-rc.com/ there does seem to be a lot of support for the Voyager, and it is an AMYA class for racing.


The ETNZ has a bit of a reputation as being difficult to build. There is a thread on RCgroups.com about this.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on November 19, 2009, 08:36:24 AM
Thanks for that.I am currently have a Kyosho Fortune ,but would like something one metre in length,that is reasonably simple to build.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: ralphhager on November 20, 2009, 10:41:41 PM
Jake:  If you buy the “Thunder Tiger Voyager 2”, over there in the UK.  Could you post it here with the price and where you got it from?  I have been trying to buy this yacht (with the light & Rigid fiber glass racing hull) here in the US, but as of yet no one has it in stock.  Also if you could post some picture and make some comment on the fiber glass hull.  That sure would be nice.

Thanks Ralph :-)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on November 25, 2009, 02:24:40 PM
I bought it from Leeds model shop,they were the cheapest I could find.It arrived on Tuesday(ordered Sunday evening).
It is my christmas present from the wife ,so at the moment have just got a very big box to look at.It maybe the New Year before I get round to putting it together and sailing it.
Here`s the link for the supplier:
http://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3614&osCsid=ece38009ba82d3c2bbb21737a529dba6
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on November 26, 2009, 12:22:52 PM
Hi Jake,

The hull is identical, but plain white, as are the fin and rudder.

The rigging is similar to the Voyager 1 (the ABS 12M version); the cloth has the nasty habbit of sagging in damp conditions and it shrinks alot in dry and warm conditions (up to the point where things start to crack and break...)

At best, it can be used as a template for a suit of replacement sails out of Spinaker, Mylar, of drawing film.

I sail a modified Voyager 1 and I have yet to encounter a Voyager 2 (or an ETNZ for that matter), that can keep up in more than a gentle breeze, as I can sail (and control) my Voyager in up to 5-6 Bft.

Like all sailboats in this pricebracket; the more you like to tinker, the faster she'll sail.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on November 26, 2009, 12:39:47 PM
Hi Jan,I read your mods  PDF last night.I plan to sail it out of the box for starters,then start to introduce a few mods later,once I`ve had chance to get her on the water.First mod will be the sails,I have some florist cellophane set aside to see how that works.
 :-))
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on November 27, 2009, 05:06:42 PM
Hi Jake,

Cellophane works quite well and is a quick way to try out different sailsizes and shapes.
I like the spinnaker better, as it's more 'real' sailcloth-like, and much stronger than cellophane, but that's my choice,  because I sail my Voyager in all kinds of weather, up to 6Bft.

Looking forward to some pics of your new boat, building and sailing pics are required!

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jimmy James on November 27, 2009, 09:11:50 PM
Been making my sails out of light weight shower curtins for years (the cheap ones are best as they are the lightest weight) they are waterproof, easy to stitch and sew don't stretch or shrink :-)) many look like cloth and they set well...
Freebooter
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Mark47 on November 27, 2009, 11:10:23 PM
Hi Jake,

Cellophane works quite well and is a quick way to try out different sailsizes and shapes.
I like the spinnaker better, as it's more 'real' sailcloth-like, and much stronger than cellophane, but that's my choice,  because I sail my Voyager in all kinds of weather, up to 6Bft.

Looking forward to some pics of your new boat, building and sailing pics are required!

Regards, Jan.

Sorry this will be a simple answer for a dumb question. But what is Bft.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: tigertiger on November 28, 2009, 03:03:21 AM
I am guessing the Beufort scale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on November 28, 2009, 10:10:32 AM
Hi Mark,

Tigertiger guessed right: Bft is the abbreviation for Beaufort.

I have to add, that sailing a Voyager in 6Bft is only possible on sheltered water, where the boat only has to cope with the wind and not the waves that comes with it on a large lake.
I've tried that, but the boat will loose too much speed as the wave spacing will engulf it from bow to stern.

In those conditions 5Bft is the limit.
I've added a few pics, where I sail my Voyager in high wind on a large body of water.
Notice the mastbend to reduce the windpressure.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on November 30, 2009, 07:51:16 AM
Thanks for the replies re:sails.One question,can waterproof tape be used on materials like cellophane,as my sewing skills are none existent.
Nice pics Jan,will keep you posted in the New Year.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on November 30, 2009, 08:23:09 AM
Any kind of (transparant) tape will do for taping panels together.

Take the non stretching variant, you'll get a better sail.

Also keep in mind, the glue will harden over time, so the lifespan is limited.
My guess is, the cellophane will go first though...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: roycv on November 30, 2009, 09:35:56 AM
Hi, I have used double sided transparent tape to stick mylar panels.  Also you can use 'Hemite' a wispy fabric glue to create cloth sails.
All work well and have been in use several years now.
regards Roy
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on November 30, 2009, 07:03:27 PM
my sewing skills are none existent.

Hi Jake,

As you can see particularly well in the first of the three pics above, my sewing skills aren't exactly wrinkle free either...

Having made a lot of kites over the years, out of ripstop nylon (spinaker), I've gotten used to handling the slippery stuff on the sewing machine.
I use sailmakers double sided tape to glue the panels together, once I'm satisfied with the shape, I zigzag the seams to make them storm proof.
The sewing creates some tension in the sail, but I rather have that than having my sail blown apart in more than a gentle breeze...

So, grab some cloth and work on your sewing skills!

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Bradley on November 30, 2009, 07:21:28 PM
Have a look at Sailsetc website.  I think they do all the sailmaking materials including tape.

http://www.sailsetc.com/

Derek.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: ralphhager on December 30, 2009, 09:14:59 PM

Jake Bullit:  Happy New Year  :-))
Me & Pompebled must be thinking the same thing; we sure are looking for your progress report, on your Voyager 2 build. {:-{
Thanks Ralph :-)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on December 31, 2009, 07:38:22 AM
Just made a start last night,only got as far as putting the bulb on and putting the keel and rudder tubes in.Oh and the stand of course.
Don,t think I`ll epoxy the keel in,will probably leave it so it can be removed for transportation.Only thing is if I don`t put epoxy into the rebate there will be a bit of a gap,maybe some silicon would be ok?
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on December 31, 2009, 10:34:38 AM
Hi Jake,

Leaving the keel removable is what I did with my Voyager too, it allows me to bring the boat along on holidays in a car, that's already packed to the max.

Could you show us some pictures of the gap you mentioned?

Also, when leaving the keelfin removable, it is wise to examine the thickness if the laminate surrounding the keelbox, while you still have access, in case reinforcements are required.
Hold it against a strong lichtsource to reveal thin spots.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on February 03, 2010, 06:25:39 PM
 Been to the pond in Southport UK twice now .The boat still hasn`t got wet!
First time I forgot the keel nut,second time a shroud snapped rigging up in a stiff breeze despite using steel trace wire.
Try again this week,though it`s been snowing here today.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: tigertiger on February 04, 2010, 04:06:38 AM
I was surprised how weak some fishing trace is, I think it is used for its abbrassion resistance.

I was also surpirsed how strong some of the synthetics are.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Boomer on March 16, 2010, 12:13:20 AM
JakeBuit,
Not sure if you have found the cure for your rigging issue at this point, but if you haven't may I suggest you consider using 1 x 7 strand nylon coated stainless steel fishing leader. 30 to 45lb. test. It is very easy to do and requires only a good wire cutting dia. pliers, standard pliers. You need to buy leader sleeves to secure the wires. I have attached a picture of my Yamaha's rigging so you can see how it looks.

If you opt to do this you will need to order some SS turnbuckles, so you can trim/tune your sails. You can't use bowsies on the SS wire. I did the back stay and the shrouds. The turnbuckles are not terribly expensive, and are easy to install and look very nice. They make dismantling the mast child's play. I got the turnbuckles from Midwest model yachting - They have a nice on line catalog. (Nice guy & good service to boot.) This is and American company, I don't have a source for these accept here in the States. They do ship world wide.
http://www.midwestmodelyachting.com


If you are going to race you might want to check the rules out before moving forward on this suggestion. I differ to those with greater knowledge of such things.
Good sailing
Windchaser
Rick



(http://s2.postimage.org/1gAOJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts1gAOJ)


(http://s4.postimage.org/uzE6S.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVuzE6S)

(http://s1.postimage.org/1Y6vr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1Y6vr)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on March 16, 2010, 07:59:53 AM
Thanks for the info and pics WC.I have used trace wire ,turnbuckles,also through the deck eyebolts from PJ sails here in the UK.
Just waiting for new sails from Housemartin sails ,they should arrive this week,just in time for some decent weather .
 :}
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Boomer on March 18, 2010, 03:57:26 PM
Be sure to post some pictures of your boat for all to see. I enjoy seeing what others are doing and learning about other boats, especially picking up how to tips. There a a lot of boats out there to choose from and forums like this really provide insights one would not normally have. When I retire, I am going to attempt scratch building, but for now time constraints allow me only enough to build/assemble what I think of as kit boats.

I am considering getting getting the ENTZ, but read some reports on an RC forum here in the US a few blokes mentioned a few issues they had experienced. A chap in BC, Canada I chat with, has one, and has shared his disappointment with the kit he purchased. I'll leave it at that, because I have no first hand knowledge of the boat. I will be very interested in learning how your build goes and how she sails.  They are certainly are nice looking boats!

I am just finishing my 4th boat, which I feel very fortunate to have been able to acquire from a fellow who bought it back in 1996, but never got around to building it. The boat is no longer made and finding one took me almost 5 months of searching (Tamiya Yamaha Round the World) If you are not familiar with this one, it is a 1/20th scale model of the boat that won the Whitbread Round the World Race : 985mm long, 1814mm tall and 264mm wide.  I believe it is now called the Volvo RTW race. My thought was that if this boat was good enough to win a race around the world (36,000 Miles) it should be able to handle a small lake or pond with relative ease. Happy to report, she does.  I attached a picture or two for you to see.

I just began work on 1M Seawind (the Carbon Fiber edition, also a discontinued model) This is a joint project with a friend who has been building models of one kind or another for most of his life. He is 72 years young, a retired life guard with decades of boating experience. Interestingly, he builds more RC Aircraft than boats. He has more RC planes, boats and cars than any Hobby Shop I ever seen. Unlike me, he is one of those guys who can build almost anything and has the tools do it.  Don has been a great help to me, especially on the finer points of model building these things.

I will be taking some photos moving forward, and will share our comments along the way for those who may have an interest in this boat. Enjoy the build and
Good sailing
Windchaser


(http://s1.postimage.org/9IrAr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx9IrAr)

(http://s3.postimage.org/RNCX0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqRNCX0)

(http://s2.postimage.org/8UBri.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts8UBri)

(http://s1.postimage.org/9R4lA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx9R4lA)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on March 19, 2010, 10:56:34 AM
Good luck with your projects ,and thanks for the pics.I am working at the moment ,so can`t write to much.
Here are a couple of links on ETNZ builds/mods.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697723

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1021888
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on May 19, 2010, 09:01:25 AM
Here are a few pics,been waiting for sails to arrive from Housemartin.
Mods include:
eyebolts,chainplates,trace wire rigging,extra resin round keel recess,new sails.

It still needs tidying up,and the luff is a bit long,but at least I got it on the water(green).wind was only 1-2 bft. yesterday.


(http://s1.postimage.org/OPjkS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxOPjkS)

(http://s4.postimage.org/5Uchr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV5Uchr)

(http://s3.postimage.org/m67UA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqm67UA)

(http://s2.postimage.org/I598J.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsI598J)

(http://s2.postimage.org/I5lCr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsI5lCr)

(http://s4.postimage.org/5Umg0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV5Umg0)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on May 19, 2010, 10:56:09 AM
Nice one Jake!

Congrats on your maiden!

I'd let the jib out a tad more, but that could also be the light windconditions you sailed her in, keep on tinkering!

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on May 19, 2010, 12:22:50 PM
Here`a a couple  before the new sails,very badly set up with the mast to far astern,and no wind again.

At least the water was more brown than green back in February. ok2


(http://s3.postimage.org/mD4br.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqmD4br)

(http://s2.postimage.org/IwNbr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsIwNbr)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: pompebled on May 19, 2010, 04:30:34 PM
Hi Jake,

Don't worry, the stock sails are of the same dubious quality as the sails that came with the ABS version; when the temperature is high, the material shrinks soo bad you can play the violin on the lines holding the sails.
When it's cold the material saggs so much it droops over the booms with no way to adjust that.

The stock sails are even worthless for display purposes, as the bad shrinking may lead to damage to the rigg and hull.

I used the stock sails once and once I got home I immedialtely removed them and used them as a template for some 'decent' cloth (spinaker)...

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Boomer on June 20, 2010, 04:39:49 AM
Jake,
I gotta ask you, whats with the yellow/green water in the two last pictures on your 5-19-10 posting? I hope that is algae making it that color, and not something else! Looks like there might be some suspicious looking floating matter in the water. Hope it didn't stain your beautiful all white boat!

On a more serious note, you mentioned snapping a steel trace wire, what did you end up using? In my last posting I included a picture of the SS 1 x 7 strand nylon coated 30lb test leader I used on my boat. I am curious if the wire snapped, or did the crimp/sleeve let go? It is important to match the wire with the correct size sleeve. If they are mismatched, they will let go at the most in opportune time.

I mentioned in my last posting, that I'd post a couple of updated photos for you when I completed my Yamaha.  With the latest addition of a to scale racing crew, and a few other finishing touches, the boat is now complete. Notice the color of the water, it matches the boats color.

Hope you arevout there enjoying sailing your beautiful new boat!!
Windchaser.

(http://s4.postimage.org/Nx6IA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/8wOVA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq8wOVA)

(http://s3.postimage.org/8wRpJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq8wRpJ)

(http://s3.postimage.org/8wWp0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq8wWp0)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on June 21, 2010, 07:43:43 AM
Hi W/C,
         the green is algae,it seems a bit better now,I think it just blooms up at a certain time of year.
Yes it was a sleeve that had popped off,I`ve redone it now and added some super glue just to make sure.
Your Yamaha certainly looks nice,maybe I`ll have to paint mine green to match the colour of our water. ;)
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on July 10, 2010, 04:23:03 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/13225667

Here`s a link to some video I took of my Voyager,wind was a bit gusty.

Sorry about the quality of the video,it was taken on a keychain camera ,and has lost a lot of quality when I edited it to size for vimeo.
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Boomer on July 12, 2010, 05:47:32 PM
Jake
I'd say that little camera works great! The boat looks good and handles well in the heavier winds. Thanks for sharing! I am going to shoot some video this weekend of a few of my boats. Hoping we'll have some wind to make it more interesting. The weather guys are suggesting we are in for some heat, 97F this weekend, which can mean very little wind. Once I have the footage, I need to learn how to post in on the forum.

Windchaser
Title: Re: Thunder Tiger Voyager 2/Thunder Tiger ETNZ ... same boat?
Post by: Jake Bullit on July 19, 2010, 12:42:41 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/13306155

Here is a bit more video ,this time with the keychain cam bluetacked to the TX aerial.