Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Mal X on November 25, 2009, 04:36:04 pm
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i'm looking for a really powerful brushless motor for her....prop size is either 39mm or up to 48mm, budget for motor is 70 quid, but i might go higher for something red hot, but not a Lehner just yet, that's too much money.
now, there is a brushless motor option already available for her, but it's not powerful enough :-)) :-))
also, i need help with regards to ESC and battery cell size, i want this boat to really fly
thanks
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how much do you want to spend on the esc, that will limit the motor and batteries, if you want to have more than one run that is.
peter
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well i can get 60A for about 70 quid, but i'm no expert....but the most powerful engines seem to go up to about 85 A
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You said you wanted a really powerful motor, they need something like this,the cheap ebay ones are ok if you half the amps they say for reliable running and if you compare the controle you can get with the likes of the castle there is no comparison, the cheap ones are a pain to set up and are like an on off switch, for that price of speed controller look at http://www.overlanderbatteries.co.uk/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=165&Itemid=69 I have seen a lot of these go well
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/hydra.html
http://www.castlecreations.com/products/hydra_hv_line.html
peter
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i think this one will do, Xpower 3674/06 110A, it's 540 size :-))
http://www.rcworldwide.com/v5/product_info.php?info=p869_Xpower-540-3674-6-Brushless-Motor.html
this is the same motor as used in the AsTec boats; capable of 90kmh
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If you are talking about the Feigio motors they don't do one that wind, thats a purple motor. when you look at brushless motors forget size( Psychical) it means nothing its amps and KVA ,watts. that is a car motor designer to be geared, its a high KVA motor the way to get speed is to go for a low KVA and a big prop they are very tourkey brushless motors
anyway let us know how you get on
peter
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so what do you recommend, i need to talk to somebody because i cant find anything out online, because all the motors seem to be similar to this.
i.e look at the motor in this boat, because it's similar.... http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=752
and the motor i chose was from a fast electric boat shop
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Malc,your hull is a mono2 class size.
You want to be looking at a 2000kv XL size motor running on 4S lipo.can size does matter with FE boats as the larger motor will disapate heat quicker.
Fiegao 540XL8 motor,these speedcontollers are ok on 4S,i run one with a 4S lopo and it works well.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Marine-180A-WCooled-Brushless-Boat-Speed-Controller-ESC_W0QQitemZ220517071031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item3357d778b7
Lipo a minimum of 5000mah and preferably a 30C one.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9516
You will need a cooling jacket for the motor too.
the set up will run well with a X442 prop.
Seems the hull is plastic? so a powerfuller setup would be unwise.
Brod..
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thanks, yes the hull is thin styrene; so not very strong
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Id save your expensive fe gear for a glass hull if i were you because the first time it hits anything at speed it will fall apart,just been honest.Styrene is fine for slow boats but i wouldnt use it for fast electrics its just too weak.
Mart
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yes and i'm a bit upset about it, because Robbe are supposed to be a good company, i predict the transom will be ripped out, it really is that thin, it's like paper, i've reinforced it, but i dont trust it
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Theres some good cheap glass hulls knocking arround if you know where to look.
Mart
These look good for the price,ask him for some setup info and some video he has some.They also self right without a chamber due to the offset canopy.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fast-Electric-Model-Boat-Zoom-I-fibreglass-moulding_W0QQitemZ140357596064QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item20adf6f3a0
Also these seem popular,Johhny is good to deal with too
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/25-Fibre-glass-deep-V-hull-for-electric-RC-boat-white_W0QQitemZ280422949051QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item414a82a0bb
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Those Zoom hulls wont selfight without a lot of work done and also using heavy outdated nimh cells.
Heres a good s/h mono2 race hull by a good company,self rights perfectly and runs great on 4 S lipos.
Most of the race guys use these.
http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/bb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=972
Brod..
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Hi
If you just want a bit of fun on a budgit go for the Zoom :-) But if you want to race its the Astec :-)) Been running a Zoom 2 for a while now Megamotors 20/22/2 , Seaking 60amp e.s.c , lipo 4s 30c go,s very well but need to be a tad carefull when on turns {:-{ She will not selfright unless she has loads of weight on the left side :((
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Sorry the motor is a 22/20/2
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for Magin 1, i'm building a new self-righter; out of styrene plumbers pipe :D but i should have brought the AS tec mono when i had the chance, but not much room for a self-righter put me off. i've strengthened her transom and underside, but i've gone too far now to chuck her in the bin and start again; she'll be ok. :-))
i'm going for a powerful motor and if she fulls apart, well what, these things happen %%
but i think Magin 1 will be ok, it's good experience for me, then after that; i'll get the Large 53'' cat ``drambuie on ice`` from germany or the Swiss cat, not sure yet, but it'll be top spec only, so i need to save loadsa dosh, the Plettenberg motors will cost a fortune :-))
i'm painting Magin 1 bright red plasticoat, plus i've designed the transfers too.
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Hi
If you just want a bit of fun on a budgit go for the Zoom :-) But if you want to race its the Astec :-)) Been running a Zoom 2 for a while now Megamotors 20/22/2 , Seaking 60amp e.s.c , lipo 4s 30c go,s very well but need to be a tad carefull when on turns {:-{ She will not selfright unless she has loads of weight on the left side :((
He told me he had changed the cowl design so it will self right ?i know the hulls been arround a cpl of yrs but he told me this ones a newer version but ive not tried one so im not sure if thats true or not.Not to worry though ill be releasing a selfrighting hull myself next year.
Mart
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He told me he had changed the cowl design so it will self right ?i know the hulls been arround a cpl of yrs but he told me this ones a newer version but ive not tried one so im not sure if thats true or not.Not to worry though ill be releasing a selfrighting hull myself next year.
Mart
yes, i think the large cat will need self righting too, the problem is one of the engines will be in the way, or take a spare model boat with you, with a toe hook, a little rescue tug :-))
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He told me he had changed the cowl design so it will self right ?i know the hulls been arround a cpl of yrs but he told me this ones a newer version but ive not tried one so im not sure if thats true or not.Not to worry though ill be releasing a selfrighting hull myself next year.
Mart
no it doesn't self-right because i spoke to him on the phone, but this one below does; plus it's quite fast as well
http://jperkinsdistribution.co.uk/detail.php?JPNO=5502430&activepage=1&Navmain=Materials&subcatname=RTR%20Boats/Yachts
these chinese are taking the market by storm, they're stuff is everywhere, but they dont reply to your emails, because i tried to buy that engine from HONG KONG, much cheaper, but maybe i'm supposed to just order it online, but i'm not sure if i'm able to purchase from so far away from here in the U.K, it feels a bit scary to do so, because that engine only costs 28 quid over there {:-{........... maybe i'm being too suspicious, but to me it feels a bit dodgy.
http://www.rcworldwide.com/v5/product_info.php?info=p869_Xpower-540-3674-6-Brushless-Motor.html
it's this outfit, take a look please, but the rest of their website looks poor; especially the very few speed controllers
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ALSO, on electric engines; does more turns give you more torque, because less turns definitely seems to give you more speed but higher Amps.
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If he told you on the phone it doesnt then hes a lying **** then because even on his advert it says exactly what he told me lol.Just shows you cant trust some people %).
Ive never used that Chinese company but ive used others and ive never had a problem with getting stuff from them,cheaper than anywhere else in the world and shipping is cheap too.Youd be amazed how much of a markup some ratailers put on the same gear they buy from them O0.Take that jperkins company those engines theyre selling at £159 you can sometimes buy direct from Germany for 30-40 quid i bought two and sold em on.
Mart
http://jperkinsdistribution.co.uk/detail.php?JPNO=HEB3005&activepage=1&Navmain=Marine&subcatname=RTR Boat Spares
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http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=97&products_id=752
this i the one i'm talking about, and the smaller version, sorry :embarrassed:
yes, the ``purple race 540 size brushless engines are far cheaper in HONG KONG, only about 28 quid, but they dont sell a decent speed controller for it, i'm going to have to research this ``Chinese connection`` much more before buying.
the main manufacturer seems to be DRAGON, but they seem to be wholesale only, even so; there must be many model shops in HONG KONG/ SHANHAI, because DRAGON use the same purple motors that over here coat 70 quid, these boats are the ones that AStec sell, they buy direct from China
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http://www.himodel.com/
this place looks good, i can get the Seaking 90A ESC for 40 quid, or 100A for not much more, plus the Feigho 540XL8, all for 86 quid, the same from AStec models costs 130 quid
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Electics are not my thing i prefer the smell and sound of 2 strokes ;).Most everything electrical comes from China or Taiwan though :-).
Mart
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well i've built Magin's new self-righting, out of 2'' dia PVC drain pipe tube, she looks ok, lets hope it works.
after this, she's ready for her Undercoat and then the gloss red, plus the new decals.
finally i'll install the electrics/ rudder/ trim tabs etc
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Lets see some pics of your progress that would be good to see ok2.
Mart
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oh god, right now she has major problems, she's not totally self- righting, maybe because at the moment there's no hatch cover on her, she's tuning no further than side on, i need to get sellotape tomorrow and test her again.
this new self- rigthing tube isn't as large a volume as the standard box and i'm suspicious of this, even so; my guess is, if she pivots further than 90 degrees, then she'll self-right, but she wont at the moment because she's got no hatch cover and taking on too much water
yes i'll upload photos, but not whilst she looking like a pile of junk :D :D
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ok i tested her with sellotape, even worst, she's not sinking at all, the chamber isn't even filling up with water, i know what it is, she needs another hole close to the bottom of the hull to releive the air pressure inside.
she already has 4 holes in the top, but none near the bottom ``far end`` of the chamber, i now have another self- righting chamber for her that's the same size as the original, so i'll fit it tomorrow
she's sinking ever so slightly at the stern and then stopping, she cant sink any further because of the air pressure inside, silly me Duuurr :-)
no worries, because i dont plan to race her till next spring anyway. :-))
it's all good experience, but it tells me that self-righting a large cat will be a nightmare, because her chamber will have to be in the bow {:-{.........because there's no room in the stern; she'll have 2 engines !!!!!!
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You dont need a self righting chamber in a large cat just have plenty of pool noodles for floatation,most big cats will be running petrol or nitro motors anyway so no point it self righting because the motors will die when flooded lol,preferably they should be shut off when you dunk or you will damage them but thats easier said than done.What you do need is a way to retrieve it when it dunks,tennis ball and fishing rod works for short to mid range,any further you need a rescue boat.
Mart
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Hi Mal X,
Please put up some pictures of your Magin, even if she looks terrible, that's no point, must people who have responded know what she looks like.
Changing the original floodchamber for one of your own design wasn't the smartest thing to do, as you've experienced.
It probably holds less water than the stock one and even that one was barely large enough to make her selfright.
Keep in mind, the Magin One was designed with a 700 motor and 12-14 cells, so this boat needs weight, if you go for a brushless motor and Lipo's, you'll have to add ballast to get this boat to run sensibly, and most likely extra weight on the inside of the floodchamber to get her to self-right.
As suggested, keep the motorisation mild, this hull reaches it's limits rather quick, due to the floppy material used and the design, being for the medium powered 700 motor.
The underwaterhull needs drastic modifications to be able to run as fast as a modern epoxy hull.
Regards, Jan.
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ok thanks, i will upload photos when she's been undercoated
as said by both of us, her hull is way too flimsy, but i've strengthened her transom and tomorrow i'll be fiberglassing on the inside too, she's starting to get quite heavy, so adding ballast weight might not be needed ! {-) .......maybe only needed to help self-right though
she's more than twice the weight she was and i still have to strengthen her even more, because right now; due to building tug boats in the past, i sense that she's way too weak.
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Don't mistake a speedboat for a tug!
A speedboat needs to be strong, not too heavy, as all that weight must be propelled to get on the plane, don't overdo it.
Eagerly awating your pictures.
Regards, Jan.
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If you going to fibreglass her make sure you use epoxy,polyester will probably melt it :o.However i think your spending way too much time and effort on that flimsy hull when theres lots of nice glass hulls available cheap.
Mart
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ok, she is still not self-righting (empty hull) all she's doing is lying upside down in the bath, she's not even flooding, the intake holes on the top of her hull aren't even in the water, i'm starting to get really fed up with this; i cant take much more of this c**p :(( >:-o!
when you agitate the bath water, she still doesn't fill up, she's way too light on that side of her hull, as said, she really does need ballast inside her flood chamber.
but, i'm not happy with her structural strength, so i might scrap her and get another boat, i want her to be extremely fast and as you guys have said, she not up to the task!
i dont really want to waste anymore money on her, because it's throwing good money down the toilet, i will think about buying either a mini-cat at about 32'' or a ``DRAGON RC China `` mono.
i'm quite upset with Robbe, this boat isn't good enough and just like their tug ``HAPPY HUNTER`` styrene hulls are just not strong enough, i dont know why the hell i brought her, stupid me!
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If you going to fibreglass her make sure you use epoxy,polyester will probably melt it :o.However i think your spending way too much time and effort on that flimsy hull when theres lots of nice glass hulls available cheap.
Mart
yea', you are 100% right, i have spent 4 days of solid boat building, wasted a fortune on filler, glue, sealent, hands are cut to pieces etc, downstairs looks a right mess, i love model making but this is getting me nowhere!
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http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_86&products_id=659
this is the one for me, cheap 540 purple motor from China; i'll get the most powerful 6T version, this hull is only 60 quid, i'll order it tonight.
http://www.himodel.com/electric/5mm_Shaft_2779KV_Feigao_540XL_Series_Brushless_Motor_Tyep_5408406XL.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQlIhm4B0oM
this one is the 8XL purple motor, i'll get the 6XL :-))
i'll start a new thread when ready
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhyz3AAwgNc&feature=related
this one is damned fast but is only an 11XL, flipping heck, maybe the 6XL is too powerful then!
this cat is very exciting and all the videos seem to use the same make of FEIGAO motor, i'm in a good mood now {-) {-)
because this stuff is dead cheap direct from China, plus i can also use the Magin 1 decals i've designed ``HAWAIIN PUNCH``
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Mal have you seen the small leccy hydros? i made a plug of one from a free plan ages ago its the same one the mini cat is copied off.I made some moulds and will be making a few in the new year,they will do 35-45 with a small brushless motor on 3s lipo.My lad had a similar one a while back theyre great fun the hulls only 16" long.Heres a pic of the bottom moulding ,i still need to finnish the top mould to make the top.
Mart
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Mal have you seen the small leccy hydros? i made a plug of one from a free plan ages ago its the same one the mini cat is copied off.I made some moulds and will be making a few in the new year,they will do 35-45 with a small brushless motor on 3s lipo.My lad had a similar one a while back theyre great fun the hulls only 16" long.Heres a pic of the bottom moulding ,i still need to finnish the top mould to make the top.
Mart
YEA' that looks cool :-)), these little boats always seems to be travelling miles faster than the larger models, i suppose it's due to the scale speed of a smaller hull, this one travelling at 45 will be really fast indeed :-))
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Hi mart, I been toying with the idea of building a .12 or .18 hydro for a while now. Best bet looked like the jap 12g, but your little hull caught my attention. what you reckon she'd go like with a .12 in her?
cheers Glenn
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Im sure the boat would go well with that size engine ,but im still in the process of finishing the moulds.I should have something ready in the new year all been well.The hull itself is 1 1/2" deep between the sponsons so the cowl would need to take into account the height of the motor when in the boat etc.The current cowl is too low as its designed for electric motors but no reason i cant make a nitro version.I was toying with the idea anyway,heres a very rough sketch of one idea.
Mart
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how about a Budweiser style airofoil :-))
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how about a Budweiser style airofoil :-))
To suit the OS 46 VX-M :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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OK, Magin 1 is now quite strong, the transom has Bulwalk supports and is now 4mm thick Styrene..........BUT, i've been told that she wont be fast; because she runs on her Chine and thus rocks from side to side, uuum hang around, she's got trim tabs, but maybe he didn't realise this! {:-{
i'm after the Hor 32 Aparation Cat from Astec, but i've got to wait, all sold out, this cat is very popular.
so whilst waiting, i will fit and reinforce prop tube, engine mount and then spray her up.
i must now take a look at her engine mount :-))
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get one from here,good seller,and get all your hardware too,rudder,strut etc.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/32-fibreglass-catamaran-hull-for-electric-rc-boat_W0QQitemZ300368842928QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio_Control_Vehicles?hash=item45ef60d0b0
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thanks for that
with carriage, it's the same price as AStec, they also sell the ``almost ready to run boat``.
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http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/246516611/RC_Boat_GP_Gas_Powered_26CC/showimage.html
you wanna see this place, they have loads of cats and hydros, both petrol and electric, 78 pages; but i got fed up after page 8 O0
these Chinese, flipping heck, they're totally amazing, they'll be running the world in 10 years time, i saw loads of cats just like ``King of Shaves`, i also saw another supplier with future products WOW %%
but all of this stuff is for bulk supply only, you'd have to visit a shop in HONG KONG or Shanghai to pick up a bargain like that.
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Hi mart, I been toying with the idea of building a .12 or .18 hydro for a while now. Best bet looked like the jap 12g, but your little hull caught my attention. what you reckon she'd go like with a .12 in her?
cheers Glenn
A .12 will make a well set up hydro like the Jae 12go well, but I think something like Mart's will need a bit more oomph to get it moving.
Funnily enough - my Fae .12 has just arrived and is my next build if I ever get this whiplash completed.
Glenn (As well)
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Hi other Glenn, thanks for that, i was wondering. don't have much experience in ic boating, did a couple of years class c multi in early 80's but didn't really have the budget to take it up as i wanted. I fancied building a rigger for ages & since i have a .12 motor from a car sitting in the shed, i though it would be a good ( & cheap) way of learning about set up etc.
Cheers Glenn
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The .12 will move this thing well id think no problem might not be ballistic depends on the motor if its race ar sports motor etc,the minibat which is from minicat racing is from these same plans i built the plug from (hydromite) and my lad had one.It ran 35 mph on a 2600 kv brushless motor on 3 s lipo, its ballistic and turns great once set up right.If id known these plans were of the same hull i could have copied from the glass one but i sold it ages ago.If your running a car motor id stick with the leccy top maybe and have the head exposed ?,if not i can def modify a hatch to fit your purpose.The car motor might not be as powerfull as the brushless setup im not sure but it will move it fine.
Mart
heres a vid of my lads similar one bearing in mind it has an oversized heavy servo and the esc was playing up.Was fun to run and was much faster with the smaller servo and a new esc and battery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUX555ovYsg
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that Hydro will fly mate, no worries, just needs a bit of fooling around with the set up etc.
i'll buy one off you, just make sure that it's nice and strong, i'll put an `` Infinity`` race car motor in her, she'll fly. :-)) %% %%
i'll go to Lesro models up the road and buy a ``sports modified`` off them, they do them in custom 2T, 3T windings, they really soup them up well. but i'd definitely have to speak to them, because this car motor might be too powerful for only a 16'' long hull................. not sure %%
what size prop does she run?
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that Hydro will fly mate, no worries, just needs a bit of fooling around with the set up etc.
i'll buy one off you, just make sure that it's nice and strong, i'll put an `` Infinity`` race car motor in her, she'll fly. :-)) %% %%
i'll go to Lesro models up the road and buy a ``sports modified`` off them, they do them in custom 2T, 3T windings, they really soup them up well. but i'd definitely have to speak to them, because this car motor might be too powerful for only a 16'' long hull................. not sure %%
what size prop does she run?
you will find a good brushless as used to race this size off hull will probably double the power of a sports modified Brush motor and then some..
peter
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you will find a good brushless as used to race this size off hull will probably double the power of a sports modified Brush motor and then some..
peter
good thanks :-))
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I ran 3 different small 31-32 mm props all with different pitch they came as a set just nylon props,once you find one that works change to a brass one and you will gain even more speed.Peter seems to know about leccy setups so im sure he can come up with an even better setup than the one i used then it would really fly ok2.Ill start another thread when i start building them,shouldnt be long now.
Mart
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I ran 3 different small 31-32 mm props all with different pitch they came as a set just nylon props,once you find one that works change to a brass one and you will gain even more speed.Peter seems to know about leccy setups so im sure he can come up with an even better setup than the one i used then it would really fly ok2.Ill start another thread when i start building them,shouldnt be long now.
Mart
yes get Pete to race one up to her full speed, start a new thread etc. it'll be very interesting to see