Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: alan colson on December 05, 2009, 10:33:56 pm

Title: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 05, 2009, 10:33:56 pm
Early next year I will have to renew my Photo Driving Licence :((, this was issued to me after I had been unable to drive for 15 months due to a brain tumour. I did not want this type of licence but had no choice. In the new year I will have to pay 20-00 >:-o for the privilage plus the cost of the photo's. This I think is a very unfair way of gaining more tax >:-o >:-o >:-o as not everyone has to do this. What do you think, and if you have an old style paper licence keep hold of it for as long as you can. If I do not renew this I am liable to upto a 1000 fine. Something those of you with a paper licence will not have to worry about.
Alan
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: andygh on December 05, 2009, 11:57:50 pm
I had to replace my old paper license, in the end it was so worn out that it was in 8 separate pieces  <:(
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: justboatonic on December 06, 2009, 12:13:10 am
Still got my paper license. No intention of switching to the plastic one either.  :-))
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: john j on December 06, 2009, 02:59:49 am
I managed to loose my paper one when i moved house last year, so i take it i`ll have to get one of the new ones ?
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: tigertiger on December 06, 2009, 03:10:34 am
I managed to loose my paper one when i moved house last year, so i take it i`ll have to get one of the new ones ?

If you change address you are supposed to renew your license. I got pulled over by the police and asked to produce my license, and informed that my license was not valid as the address was out of date, but was not given a ticket for it.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: oldiron on December 06, 2009, 03:25:50 am
  Here in Ontario we all have to have plastic picture licenses, thats the only kind you get.

John
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: john j on December 06, 2009, 03:36:58 am
If you change address you are supposed to renew your license. I got pulled over by the police and asked to produce my license, and informed that my license was not valid as the address was out of date, but was not given a ticket for it.

I better sort it out this week, as it stands just now i dont have any licence to produce. Another 25 quid or so, GREAT !!!
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Tom@Crewe on December 06, 2009, 08:30:32 am
Whats the fear of the picture licence? I have had mine years, moved house just after they came out! the paper part stays at home safe and the card part if you have to show it slipps into wallet.

I think its a pity about this new I.D. card that you have to have both, why not just have a little section of the I.D. card with your driving licence number on and a symbol saying what type of licence you have.

I think they have started the I.D's in Manchester, then hopefully rolled out over the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Bugsy on December 06, 2009, 08:43:50 am
For any that don't know, the UK photo-licence has an expiry date on the photo aspect (ten years from memory) the date is at '4b' on the front of the licence.

Lots of people who have moved to France have been caught out by this and have had no option but to get a french licence.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Roger in France on December 06, 2009, 08:53:28 am
In fact, Swansea will not issue you with a new licence if you do not have a permenant address in the UK. So when my documents were stolen I had to apply for a French licence. But no problems there.

However, there is a difference with the "points system" here in France. Everyone starts with 12 points and you have points deducted for an infringement.

Roger in France
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: das boot on December 06, 2009, 09:08:08 am
Don't get me started on driving licences...I lost my HGV class 1 licence after my heart attack, got it back after eight months, lost it again after a further two months....got it back only to have it taken away permanently after another couple of months. 'It's because you might have another heart attack, sir' I was told...."but I can still drive a 7.5 ton truck with a drawbar trailer?" I asked...'oh yes sir, that's not a problem' I was told.

"But surely I can do as much damage with a 7.5 dog n' pup as I can with a sweeper?"....shouldn't have said that, within a few days I get a letter from the DVLA withdrawing my 7.5  ton vocation.  >>:-(

My doctor wrote to the DVLA complaining that he's my doctor and knows my medical history better than some jumped up little Welsh pen pusher in a suit, and he was told that he's only(ONLY)a GP, the Government's Medical Officer outranks him, and he really shouldn't be making waves....

So now all I have is a basic car licence... >>:-(  >>:-(  >:-o  <*<  <*<  <*<  <:(


Rich
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Bunkerbarge on December 06, 2009, 09:23:13 am
Back to the original post it's not strictly true.  Everyone does have to have the new type of licence whenever thier situation changes.  Eventually everyone will have one and there is no way you can avoid it.  This is obviously a simpler and easier way of changing over than to simply require everyone to change by a certain date, which would be a bit of a administrative nightmare.  Obvious things such as a change of address or the addition or removal of points require you to update your licence and then you have no choice other than to have a new type.

I changed address and had to have the new type and I hate the stupid thing.  Now you have to carry the piece of paper and the ID card around with you because they are both required to be shown if asked for.  The ID card is almost unreadable, with a photo that is a waste of time and a signature that you need a microscope to see!

just to really make your day, even though the new license lasts until you are 70 years old, the photo doesn't and has to be renewed every 10 years, and yes you have to send it away again and yes, you have to pay again!!! >>:-(
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Made it to 80 (25p Richer now) on December 06, 2009, 09:33:20 am
Renewed my licence last year  (was an age thing something about getting to 70) I had no problem with that what I did have a problem with was that they wanted me to send my birth certificate in the post to DVLA. Now I am of the age that was taught you NEVER let your birth certificate out of your sight . They didn't want to see my birth certificate when they called me up and they sure didn't ask for it every week when they raided my pay packet
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Bugsy on December 06, 2009, 09:41:41 am
However, there is a difference with the "points system" here in France. Everyone starts with 12 points and you have points deducted for an infringement.

Roger in France

My wife is an expert on points Roger having probably set a record with two speeding tickets in just eight minutes  %%

At least the discount for 'prompt' payment softened the blow. :-)
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: meechingman on December 06, 2009, 10:17:43 am
Now you have to carry the piece of paper and the ID card around with you because they are both required to be shown if asked for. 

Actually, no! Right at the top of the paper part it tells you to keep it in a safe place. So you don't need both on your person. I had this confirmed to me by the DVLA, who also said at the time (about 4 years ago) that there were no plans to make it compulsory. 'Producing' a licence for Police requires both parts but can be done within 7 days, and you may also need both parts if you want to hire a car etc.

There's quite a bit of on-line discussion about carrying your licence with you at all. Digging deep, it's Road Traffic Act Section 164, para 8 that deals with this and it states that while legally, it's an offence to drive without your licence on you, but also that there is a statutory defence allowing you to produce it within those 7 days at a Police station.

Here's the quote:

RTA 1988 S164:-

[8] In proceedings against any person for the offence of failing to produce a licence it shall be a defence for him to show that—

(a) within seven days after the production of his licence was required he produced it in person at a police station that was specified by him at the time its production was required, or

(b) he produced it in person there as soon as was reasonably practicable, or

(c) it was not reasonably practicable for him to produce it there before the day on which the proceedings were commenced


It is an offence not to produce it when asked but a statutory defence to show that you produced it within 7 days as in (i) above.


Don't take this as a legal statement of fact, but it's well worth checking out. For example, http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/driving_licence.htm and Wiki would also suggest that I'm correct.

Andy
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: w3bby on December 06, 2009, 10:21:04 am
I think its a pity about this new I.D. card that you have to have both, why not just have a little section of the I.D. card with your driving licence number on and a symbol saying what type of licence you have.
Don't we British like to complicate things %) I have a Swedish driving licence (converted from my paper thing when I moved here). This has my picture and is my I.D. For those that do not have a driving licence there is the "option" of an I.D. card (not really on option, you are going to need to prove your I.D sometime).
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: das boot on December 06, 2009, 10:32:11 am
Don't we British like to complicate things %)

Yep!! When I had my HGV class 1, I could drive cars, m'bikes, 3 wheelers, vans, rigids, artics, heavy haulage stuff, LHD sweepers, dog n' pups...all that sort of stuff, but could I drive a milk float? Could I heck as like!  %% Not that I ever wanted to drive a milk float, but it just seemed silly to me...


Rich
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: DickyD on December 06, 2009, 11:09:18 am
With you on that Rich, I could drive anything but a bus or milk float. {:-{
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: das boot on December 06, 2009, 12:27:41 pm
It's most strange Dickie...I could drive a PSV vehicle provided I don't receive payment by any of the passenger?
I could drive a tractor...
I can't drive a milk float still.... :embarrassed:


Guess I'll be getting meself a bike...


Rich
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: andygh on December 06, 2009, 12:39:33 pm
Quote
I think they have started the I.D's in Manchester, then hopefully rolled out over the rest of the country.

Hopefully not  surely?
I think I read somewhere that airport workers will be the first people required to hold an I.D. card so at least I'll be able to claim for mine on company exspenses  ;D
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Colin Bishop on December 06, 2009, 12:40:36 pm
I thought you had to be pasteurised to drive a milk float......
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: das boot on December 06, 2009, 12:45:47 pm
I thought you had to be pasteurised to drive a milk float......

I'm way past that sort of thing nowadays, can barely reach me knees, let alone past me eyes... :D


Rich
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: gingyer on December 06, 2009, 12:51:52 pm
If I do not renew this I am liable to up to a 1000 fine.

worse than that I am afraid the 1000 fine is from the DVLA
if the photo card licence has expired then you are deemed to be driving without a valid driving licence
even though your paper version will have a expiry date a lot longer on it normally
so you can get charged from the police for driving with out a licence and since you need a valid licence
for your insurance add on drivng without insurance and if you have a bump then you won't be insured

I found this out from my friend who works in the police who was telling me about it as the traffic cops had done someone for
it that day and he thought it was a bit OTT, checked my licence and I had 3weeks before mine expired luckily got it sorted
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 06, 2009, 02:58:43 pm
Since I started this topic I have read all the comments with interest, but nobody has answered my question about why I have to pay 20-00 plus the cost of the photo's to renew my licence, surely an unfair tax. I feel sure that the traders would sooner me spend my money on boat parts, I know that I would sooner spend it on something boat related.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Welsh_Druid on December 06, 2009, 03:06:21 pm

and since you need a valid licence
for your insurance add on drivng without insurance and if you have a bump then you won't be insured
 

Sorry but I don't think that is quite right.

Just checked my insurance certificate which says

" Persons or classes of persons entitled to drive. Providing that the person driving holds a licence to drive the car or has held and is not disqualified from holding or obtaining such a licence"

This is fairly standard with most insurance companies I think ?

Don B.

Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Netleyned on December 06, 2009, 03:13:06 pm
Price of a new bit of plastic
Price of transferring the new photo on to it
Postage sending it back to you
Latte and Danish for man in a suit pressing
the keys
You must pay otherwise taxpayers who
dont drive could query why it is free

Yours Aye

Ned
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: andygh on December 06, 2009, 03:18:25 pm
Quote
nobody has answered my question about why I have to pay 20-00 plus the cost of the photo's to renew my licence

They could just increase the price of road tax I suppose, then the license would be free  %%

Seriously though, 20 is daylight robbery, I would imagine that the real cost is something like a couple of quid. British drivers stiffed-up by the government (again)? How very dare you
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 06, 2009, 03:20:11 pm
netleyned
your missing the point, I'll pay if everyone with a licence pays, but until then it is an unfair tax. My wife doesn't pay as she still has the paper licence, many other people I know don't pay as they have the paper licences. When we all pay great until then what is free for some should be free to all. Someone also commented that you need I.D. well I have it I also paid for a passport which will need renewing in a couple of years at a cost of about 70.
Alan
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: dougal99 on December 06, 2009, 05:57:58 pm
Only two things certain in life death and taxes and even in death you pay, death certificate 'kerching', probate 'kerching' and possibly death duties 'kerching'.

My father in law was still paying tax (due to a convuluted bequest he recieved) 20 years after he died.

I always say if you can't take it with you I 'aint going to go.  {-)

Oh pne more thing, tax and fair I should coco  >:-o
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 06, 2009, 08:05:07 pm
andygh, you seem to have grasped what I have been on about, thanks for your comments.
Alan
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: UXB on December 06, 2009, 08:32:15 pm
Alan,
Blame the EU, the reason we have a small plastic photo licence is that is the EU standard that we are obliged to conform to. However our gov like the paper part because you can't put endorsements etc on a bit of plastic hence we have what the EU want and what the Gov want.
It is another tax, I suspect even our grabbing Gov thought it was a bit much to make every one hand in the old paper licence for a photo one , they still get the money but in dribs and brabs and every year it goes up, changed my details 3 times in year a few years ago.
The 1000 fine is a DVLA fine and is not administered by the Police.
As said on another post you don't have to have either with you is stopped by the police, most of the time the police can check you licence details over the radio, depending how recently you have changed the details.
Bart
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 06, 2009, 08:47:37 pm
Like Sweden, Australian driving licences are all the photo type, and have been for many years. I think the paper ones were a pain in the neck, always disintegrating. The licence also acts as photo ID for proof of age etc.

Peter.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: andygh on December 06, 2009, 10:27:23 pm
How much do you pay in Oz Peter?
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: w3bby on December 07, 2009, 01:10:37 am
Not Peter and not Oz but we pay 120 Kr to renew a licence, so about 10.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: essex2visuvesi on December 07, 2009, 01:48:06 am
To change my UK license to a Finnish one was 40 euros

Also it is an offence under Finnish law to drive without having your driving license with you.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: furball on December 07, 2009, 11:16:58 am
Be warned, if you have to update your licence, take a photocopy of it before sending it off to the DVLA. They have been known to 'lose' various entitlements that you currently have - trailer weights and stuff like that.

A friend of my wife had to replace his, and when it came back he's lost his entilement to ride a bike - which as he was a bike training instructor was a bit of a problem...

It was only that he could prove what his occupation was and that he *must* have had the entitlement before that made the DVLA back down and put it back on his licence.


Lance
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 07, 2009, 08:27:00 pm
I've had a long and intensive email reply today from the DVLA. Basically they blame the EU and Parliament for the cost of the licence and if anyone does not surrender their licence for renewal then the Police and CPS will prosicute with a fine of upto 1000
Alan
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 07, 2009, 09:00:50 pm
Andy, licence fees in Australia vary from state to state, and I can only give the costs for NSW. These are - I year $47, 3 years $113 or a 5 year licence costs $151.

More information here http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/licensingfees.html (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/licensingfees.html)

Peter.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: andygh on December 07, 2009, 09:16:02 pm
About 25 a year? :o It's not just the Brits getting ripped off then
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 08, 2009, 04:25:54 am
Government agencies are not shy when it come to ripping people off. The cheapest way is a 5 year licence, about 15 quid a year.

Peter.
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: cbr900 on December 08, 2009, 11:05:24 am
Or if you are a pensioner in Tasmania they are free........................ {-) {-)


Roy
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 08, 2009, 08:51:22 pm
Or if you are a pensioner in Tasmania they are free.

Same in NSW, and probably anywhere in Australia.

Peter
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Nordsee on December 09, 2009, 04:46:36 pm
Here in Germany it costs 75 Euros for a new License. Naturally a Plastic one. I drive on my old EU Card license, but that can cause problems if I get stopped in a Traffic Control In Holland or Belgium as the Card ones are not legal there! Also you take the license whenever you drive ( I leave mine in the car). Get in a Control and don't have it with you, then you will get a Taxi home. No License, no drive!! There are now 14, yes 14 seperate sorts of Driving License in Germany!
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: ajb68 on December 09, 2009, 04:55:31 pm
Ok time for me to get into hot water  O0
 We on this site spend large amounts of hard earned cash on our hobby without much thought , if we need a new esc we buy one so why o why is this debate rolling on about photocard costs its your choice either pay or get the bus , i think you will find its cheaper to pay for the license ! {:-{

Andy
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Wasyl on December 09, 2009, 06:46:55 pm
Ah!...a very valid point,..but,its the usual story,we don,t mind paying for something that we know will give us pleasure,but if its just another way of the Gov, or other official body getting money out of us,then we do what we do best, we dig our heels in, and end up paying through the nose,..just my slant on things,..mind you, you,d have a hard job trying to coax a photo-card to run yer boat O0 %% %% {-)

Wullie
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: ajb68 on December 09, 2009, 06:53:55 pm
carefull wullie you are actually starting to make sense  O0 this action is most unlike you , are you feeling ok mate  :o %% %% {-) {-) %%

Regardless Andy
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 09, 2009, 07:24:46 pm
Andy
I did not get points on my licence, I did not move house, I had to give up my licence after being advised by a surgeon. I could not drive for 15 months after an operation to remove a brain tumour.
I was then told that I could re-apply for my licence free of charge :-)) :-)) I was not informed that I would have to pay in the future. >:-o >:-o
If I had kept my original paper licence but not driven the car for the 15 months this problem would not have raised it's ugly head.
Alan
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: ajb68 on December 09, 2009, 07:33:13 pm
The thread itself is built on the good old british moan groan raise an eyebrow then move on
your case alan is different as you point out im not having a pop at anyone it just astounds me that a thread like this just keeps going , and i really do hope your health is good now

Andy
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: alan colson on December 09, 2009, 07:35:51 pm
Many thanks Andy, yes in good health as long as I keep taking the tablets.
Alan
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: Wasyl on December 09, 2009, 10:20:24 pm
Good health to you Alan,as for tablets,...well from what i,ve read on this forum,their what keeps many of us going,I personally prefer mine in the flavour of Swiss Milk, %%

Wullie
Title: Re: Photo Driving Licences
Post by: ajb68 on December 09, 2009, 10:46:35 pm
Good health to you Alan,as for tablets,...well from what i,ve read on this forum,their what keeps many of us going,I personally prefer mine in the flavour of Swiss Milk, %%

Wullie

Sometimes wullie i think you aint too tightly wrapped  O0 {-) {-) {-) :-))

Andy