Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: toesupwa on January 22, 2010, 09:36:10 PM

Title: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 22, 2010, 09:36:10 PM
This is the latest addition to the Toesup fleet.. A modern harbour tug.. 24" x 11"

I have made up my own plug / mold / hull from a few sketches over the last 18 months or so..
I've also produced my own 'Z' drives...  O0

The tug has a working winch and will have working keel coolers, cooling the motors and ESC's
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: bosun on January 23, 2010, 12:10:02 AM
Thats a good looking boat Toes, have you any pics from the start of the build, nice one
Bosun
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:39:21 AM
Yeah... just a few..  O0

The plug..
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:41:46 AM
Still the plug...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:43:15 AM
.. still the plug...

Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:45:05 AM
Plug and mold..
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:46:43 AM
Plug, mold and hull..
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:48:06 AM
The build...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 12:49:46 AM
.. still the build..
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: gingyer on January 23, 2010, 01:00:54 AM
any chance of seeing how you built the Z drives :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 01:06:26 AM
The original sketch..

The keel coolers...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 01:08:24 AM
any chance of seeing how you built the Z drives :-))

Of course...

The Z drives...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: gingyer on January 23, 2010, 01:15:10 AM
thanks it has given some thought to something
in the future  :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Bunkerbarge on January 23, 2010, 02:25:18 AM
An absolute work of art Toes and a great build thread.  Lovely engineering throughout and a very unusual and interesting subject.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: marinaru_ro on January 23, 2010, 07:18:17 AM
Great job on it Toes! I just love the Z-drives.
George
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: TugChief on January 23, 2010, 04:12:58 PM
Very interesting model, built in the style of a tractor tug but is actually an ASD!  I think that you will have a very interesting time when you tow over aft with her as the towing point is actually aft of the pivot point of the units..........will be very interesting to see the outcome!  A good looking model none the less.

TugChief.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 23, 2010, 04:31:59 PM
I think that you will have a very interesting time when you tow over aft with her as the towing point is actually aft of the pivot point of the units..........will be very interesting to see the outcome!


The winch unit is about 2" (50mm) in front of the Z drive units... and the 'staple' is only just behind the CL of the drive units..

"will be very interesting to see the outcome"... can you elaborate please?...  {:-{
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Number 6 on January 23, 2010, 06:22:54 PM
Looks very impressive, can't say much more! Keep us posted on progress, Dave :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: TugChief on January 24, 2010, 08:26:29 AM
Hi Toesupwa,

The pivot point must be counted as the last point the the tow rope is in contact with the tugs structure and as you correctly point our your towing point (Staple) is aft of the units.  If you look at the configuration of any single, twin or ASD propelled tug you will find that the towing point is just aft of midships, mush further forward that on your vessel.

The easiest way to explain i feel is in terms of vessel rudders.  These have developed over the years and there are three basic types which have been used over the past century or so;

Fully Balanced.  This is when the rudder stock is almost in the centre of the rudder blade allowing equal forces to act on the area ahead of the pivot point and equally on the area aft of the pivot point.  The advantage of this is that you require a very small torque to turn the rudder, but the disadvantage is directional instability as the rudder will have a tendency to wander due to the equal forces being appled as it passes through the water.  In tug terms this would be great for a harbour tug with her towing point midships as she would be very maneuverable and would be able to pivot on her tow line with minimum rudder appled.  This direction instability always gives the danger or turning the tug over (where the tow rope comes across the beam at right angles almost midships at the towing point) and this is why a gog or gob rope is sometimes used to transfer the towing point further aft.

Semi Balanced.   This is where the rudder stock is approximately 1/3 back from the leading edge of the rudder blade.  This increases the turning torque required but gives much better direction stability.  This is the type of rudder used in all merchant vessels with a conventional propulsion package built today.  In tug terms this is what most single/twin/ASD tugs have.  This gives good maneuverability for use in harbours but still excellent direction stability for towing at sea (i.e. in a straight line).

Non Balanced.  This is where the rudder stock is located right on the leading edge of the rudder, whilst giving the best directional stability it gives the worst turning performance and requires the most torque to turn the rudder blade.  This is the category that your tug falls into.  When you are towing over aft your tug will not pivot around the towing point at all.  The entire tug will have to force the complete length of her hull through the water to change direction which will lead to using all engine power to position your tug and not the tow, this will lead to total loss of control of the tow.

You have made such a nice job of her top sides and she looks like she will be a cracking model, i would just suggest that you think about the option of placing the towing winch on the bow and towing through the lead on the bow as most ASD tugs to to avoid disappointment with the performance of your finished model.

Cheers.

Tugchief.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 24, 2010, 06:50:02 PM

The pivot point must be counted as the last point the the tow rope is in contact with the tugs structure and as you correctly point our your towing point (Staple) is aft of the units.  If you look at the configuration of any single, twin or ASD propelled tug you will find that the towing point is just aft of midships, mush further forward that on your vessel.

You have made such a nice job of her top sides and she looks like she will be a cracking model, i would just suggest that you think about the option of placing the towing winch on the bow and towing through the lead on the bow as most ASD tugs to to avoid disappointment with the performance of your finished model.


Thanks Tugchief...
That goes some way to explaining what to expect with a tow... though with the two Z drives under the stern, I'm still tempted to try it 'as is' and see what effect it has.. I can always cut off the rear staple at a later stage and tow direct from the winch and 'H' frame...

I cant move the winch to the bow, there is not enough room either within the depth of the hull or across the width of the hull to fit it in...  {:-{
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: tugnut on January 24, 2010, 07:42:02 PM
Great tug, that is one brilliant job you are doing Toesupwa.

One IMPRESSED John b
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: lighterman on January 24, 2010, 11:15:43 PM
Fantastic work so far! i am in the throws of making a plug up for my next project only wish it turns out at 1 10th as good as yours and i will be over the moon.
i was thinking of adding the plate detail to the plug do you think it will work as i have yet to get my sticky hand all over a mold!
cant wait to see your model as you do further work.

are the Korts turned from ply wood laminated into a block? what angle did you set the top slide over to on the turning?
regards

Martin
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 25, 2010, 12:05:02 AM

i was thinking of adding the plate detail to the plug do you think it will work as i have yet to get my sticky hand all over a mold!
cant wait to see your model as you do further work.

are the Korts turned from ply wood laminated into a block? what angle did you set the top slide over to on the turning?


You could try adding detail to your plug / mold / hull.. but if its your first attempt, I wouldnt advise it.. Get a decent hull out of the mold first and then do a second mold from the plug with detail when you have some experience..

Yes, the kort's are wrapped ply around a 'plug' i turned to the specific dia. of the props...
The full 'story' on making the kort's is here..
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1025555
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: lighterman on January 30, 2010, 12:41:28 AM
Thanks for the tips! your other posting the other web site is great. last time i made some i did is by casting resin in a yogurt pot then bored it out in the lathe thinking back it i put one pot in another i could have use less resin.
my cardboard plugs are ready for final sanding and then laying up the GRP mold
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on January 30, 2010, 01:15:28 AM
I've made up the window frames with some railway line.. and the wheelhouse roof and lower superstructure handrails...

 %)
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: oldiron on January 30, 2010, 01:41:33 AM
Nice neat looking work.

John
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: mike_victoriabc on January 30, 2010, 03:43:58 PM
Nice work there Toes!
I don't know why mine always look 'beaten' - as if someone dropped the wheelhouse when mounting it!
Do you build each section on a template - I could use a short course on building a window frame/wheelhouse.
Think I'll print these photos off.
Thanks for posting,
Mike
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on February 10, 2010, 12:16:29 AM

Do you build each section on a template - I could use a short course on building a window frame/wheelhouse.


No Mike, no template...
Once the holes are cut in the wheelhouse, i fit each individual piece of frame to fit the 'hole'.. When all 4 sides are a good fit, then just solder each corner while they are in place in the ply.
Pull out the finished frame and clean up the join...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on February 10, 2010, 12:17:55 AM
I've produced a set of stairs / ladders and handrails..

While the weather has not been cooperative for painting.. raining and cold... I've been spending some time on the lathe making the cap's for the towing bollards and 'H' frames, also a pair of life raft canisters and the winch capstans.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on March 01, 2010, 12:00:24 AM
MHT (AKA 'The other WW') has changed color..
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on March 21, 2010, 03:59:56 PM

The MHT has had a light rubbing down, another coat of primer, a light coat of sealer over the primer below the waterline... and some color above the waterline. I still have to do the paintwork inside the bulwarks and the deck yet.. and the black 'waterline'

The Bow Thruster has gone back in after painting...

.. and the keel coolers have been attached to the hull...

The next job is to re-install the drives so I can float test WW...

I guess the pic's give away what WW's 'livery' is to be..  ok2
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 21, 2010, 10:08:21 PM

I noticed your bow thruster. I like the look of the blades close to the outside edge and wondered how they are driven.

Could you describe the connections and what motor system you have please.

ken



Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on March 21, 2010, 11:48:40 PM
Its the Raboesch 108 - 30 bow thruster, 33mm dia.. :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 22, 2010, 10:04:05 AM

Smashing. Thank you for that. I have found them at Model Dockyard.

Just the thing for my Severn,  meethinks.   :-))

ken



Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: 6705russell on March 22, 2010, 11:12:49 AM
Ken, just fitted one in the Tamar, pricey but good  :-))

Russ
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 22, 2010, 08:23:40 PM

I have researched it and found it runs on a 7.2 volt  ??  motor.  How odd that someone should design this voltage.  I am looking into the possibility of fitting a 12 volt motor.

Could anyone see the connections please and advise if another motor could be fitted to the gear arrangement as I don't have a close up of the connections here.  (before I ask the shop and look simple !)

This does look just the job to shift the Severn and I shall be getting one anyway but don't want the wrong motor in my spares box. ( can't get over such a stupid voltage)

Forgive me for stealing your thread, Toes.    :embarrassed:

Cheers

Ken
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: DickyD on March 22, 2010, 08:44:19 PM
Its not such a stupid voltage Ken, 5 of my boats run on 7.2 Volts.

A product of the modern world I'm afraid. ok2
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 22, 2010, 10:35:16 PM
Deans Marine also do them:  http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19334.msg188888#msg188888 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19334.msg188888#msg188888)
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: portside II on March 23, 2010, 10:10:56 AM
Why not go for the marx ludder thruster without the motor , i have ordered one from them to replace the one in my tug .
You can fit whatever voltage motor you like then , i run mine with a 540 5 poll motor on 12v.
daz
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 24, 2010, 07:23:25 PM

     http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19334.msg188888#msg188888 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19334.msg188888#msg188888) 

I had read this thread previously but had not digested it.  It's a good read of the subject, and covers a lot of angles on 'Bow thrusters'.

Could all the above references to Bow thrusters be moved over to this thread as the subject deserves it's own columns,  and we won't be disturbing  'Toes'  thread.

This is certainly a great looking thruster. Thanks for the picture Martin.

ken


 

Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: portside II on March 24, 2010, 10:35:09 PM
Oops sorry Toes.
daz
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: kno3 on July 04, 2010, 03:13:32 PM
Just discovered this thread. Toes, you've built a great and very cute looking tug. Can't wait to see it finished and sailing.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: offshore1987 on July 04, 2010, 03:41:26 PM
super work :D
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 04, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
Just discovered this thread.

It's coming along... little by little..
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 05, 2010, 12:14:21 AM
The electricians will arrive within the week for Pilot house outfitting...

 :-)
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 07, 2010, 05:14:32 AM
.. and I'm about ready to start on the insides of the wheelhouse Umi..  :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 07, 2010, 05:18:39 AM
Oh... and I've started to work out the electrical panel..  %%
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: derekwarner on July 07, 2010, 06:21:45 AM
Hi toes........  ...I have been watching this thread since first presented....& it is :-)) ....but today I am stumped  %%

"Oh... and I've started to work out the electrical panel.."   

So what do I see?

a. a receiver in the middle
b. two ESC outboard?
c. one mixer in the near middle?
d. but what is that aluminium finned fan assisted water cooled box module with the 3/8"NPT brass plug on the perspex lid?........

I have seen that you have made provision for water cooling the twin engines...but did not realise such a thermal gradient requirement would occur ...... Derek  :o :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 07, 2010, 06:43:46 AM
Hi toes........  ...I have been watching this thread since first presented....& it is :-)) ....but today I am stumped  %%


d. but what is that aluminium finned fan assisted water cooled box module with the 3/8"NPT brass plug on the perspex lid?........

I have seen that you have made provision for water cooling the twin engines...but did not realise such a thermal gradient requirement would occur ...... Derek  :o :embarrassed:

Look UNDER the boat in post #30...  :o
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: mike_victoriabc on July 07, 2010, 02:09:28 PM
Looks interesting Tows!
Tough little tug there.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 07, 2010, 03:19:50 PM

So what do I see?

a. a receiver in the middle
b. two ESC outboard?
c. one mixer in the near middle?
d. but what is that aluminium finned fan assisted water cooled box module with the 3/8"NPT brass plug on the perspex lid?........


a/ Correct
b/ Correct
c/ No, it's another ESC... and the 4th is soon to be added..
d/ It's the header tank for the keel cooling system...  ok2
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 07, 2010, 06:45:08 PM

While I'm waiting for some other bits to arrive (I have the second pump) I've been making up some small detail pieces..  O0

The Captains chair.. I have a seated Captain, but he needs a re-paint
The rear staple lamp... and it works!
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Voyager on July 09, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
Superbly thought out, designed, and put together  :-)) :-)) :-))

Keep the pictures coming mate!!!
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 14, 2010, 06:38:47 AM

I have received a 'goody package' from Umi.... Thanks Umi!..

The bumper strips have started to be added... but I'm thinking i need more...
The radar has been added and has started to be painted... and yes, it works!..
.. and I've started on the wheelhouse interior 'panels' and screens...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: mike_victoriabc on July 14, 2010, 01:52:23 PM
Looking pretty sharp there!
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: chingdevil on July 15, 2010, 06:45:33 PM
Toes
Looking good there, one question how did you make the light on the staple? It looks really effective. :-)) :-)) :-))


Brian
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 16, 2010, 12:35:42 AM

one question how did you make the light on the staple? It looks really effective. :-)) :-)) :-))


It's one of Umi's floodlights cast in acrylic (I think?) painted white to reflect the light and then painted black as a case finish. The wiring is fed down in to the hull inside the staple...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: mattycoops43 on July 18, 2010, 01:24:46 PM
Seriously impressed with this! The attention to detail is fantastic. Please keep the pics coming!
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 22, 2010, 03:59:44 AM
I've been doing some 'interior' wheelhouse work and have finished (except the screens) the control panels.... and yes, they do illuminate..  O0

and I have a Captain with a 'grotty' red cap...

... and I'm still working on the .. ahem... wiring / rat's nest / electrical panel i have created...  :o
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 22, 2010, 08:01:33 AM
Looking good!    :-))
 What's that little water tank for?
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: boater12 on July 22, 2010, 08:15:19 AM
I think it is mentioned in reply#50.

Thats a great piece of workmanship, hopefully oneday I will get to those levels.

Jim.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 22, 2010, 08:50:24 AM
... oh yes!  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 23, 2010, 02:06:53 AM
Looking good!    :-))
 What's that little water tank for?

WW lives!....
It's been back in to the DTF for a motor / steering test run.
It seems to have plenty of power.. there may be a need for more steering, though it does seem to turn readily enough.

.. and i also now have a working keel cooling system... (that's what the little water tank is for Martin  O0 )
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 25, 2010, 06:18:52 AM
Today has been LED's... lots of them!..

4 Deck floods, 8 deck lights, 2 in the wheelhouse under the control panels... and I'm halfway up the mast...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Roger in France on July 25, 2010, 07:35:46 AM
Superb build, Toes.

I had never heard of "keel coolers" before and wondered why the keel needed cooling, duh! How efficient is that system?

Looking foward to seeing her perform.

Roger in France
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: derekwarner on July 25, 2010, 11:05:53 AM
 :-))....without a pun...Toes....but brilliant illumination  O0 in the bridge house ....regards Derek
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: tugnut on July 25, 2010, 07:57:09 PM
That is brilliant toes, that is the best wheel house i have seen O0 O0 O0.

regards John B
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Voyager on July 25, 2010, 09:04:02 PM
That is brilliant toes, that is the best wheel house i have seen O0 O0 O0.

regards John B

DITTO....THAT'S ONE UBBER WHEELHOUSE!!!!
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 26, 2010, 05:10:13 AM

I had never heard of "keel coolers" before and wondered why the keel needed cooling, duh! How efficient is that system?


I've had two bowls of water, one hot from the tap (too hot to put your hand in) and the other one with ice in it. Putting a keel cooler in the one with the ice and pumping water through the system on 6v , it took 8 minutes to get the water in the hot bowl to the same temperature as the one with the ice in it.
The experiment proves it works... but I'll have to see in practice how efficient it is at cooling the on board equipment when i have a heavy barge attached to the tug.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on July 26, 2010, 05:10:55 AM
I also now have mast lights and the wheelhouse deck lights...
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: woodybob on July 27, 2010, 06:40:50 PM
 Way cool.   8)
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: toesupwa on August 02, 2010, 06:47:21 AM
Externally the MHT is finished... except for maybe a few bit's of 'deck dross'.

The electronics board needs finishing off and I'm going to pull the port drive as it seems tighter than the starboard drive.

Ladies and Gentlemen... The TBW gives you...

'William Wallace'
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 02, 2010, 07:10:31 AM
10.5 / 10!   :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Arrow5 on August 02, 2010, 10:07:55 AM
Def the canine gonads, your best yet Toes.  Interior illumination  :-))is just perfect
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: chingdevil on August 02, 2010, 11:12:45 AM
Absolutely Superb Toes :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))


Brian
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: SteamboatPhil on August 02, 2010, 12:02:07 PM
Truly excellent Toes   :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: mike_victoriabc on August 02, 2010, 03:37:34 PM
Hi Toes
This has certainly been an interesting thread - learned a lot here - right from watching out for a piece of foam through how to build your own nozzles - amazing stuff, thanks for having the camera beside you.
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: retrotug on August 02, 2010, 05:52:48 PM
That's it, I'm off to do aeromodelling, what a brilliant piece of workmanship.
Retrotug
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: Bluechrisp on August 08, 2010, 11:22:04 AM
Hello Toes,

Just looked through your build... truely amazing and awesome build, love the small details on the bridge and the lights.  :-)) Was this the new build you told me about whilst at Pompey.  I've got lots to look forward to on my build and lots to learn.

Cheers

CP
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: tugnut on August 08, 2010, 05:47:27 PM
That is brilliant very neet build O0 O0.
TOP marks for your tug :-))Cant wait to see her working

Best regards John B
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: proteque on August 23, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
Wow. that is amazing :)
Title: Re: Modern Harbour Tug
Post by: karls on August 24, 2010, 12:57:54 PM
Hi Toes you have some very cool skills this is just amazing... :-))