Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Other Technical Questions... => Topic started by: seralph on January 24, 2010, 09:00:34 pm
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Hi I am a complete novice when it comes to R/C so please be gentle with me
My problem is that I have a radio controlled bait boat for fishing which takes bait and rig out in a lake.
I bought it had it for 6 months never been used at all went to france used boat for 2 days then it stopped working
on my return to uk took it back to the guy that built it and he repaired it I tried it out and it seemed to work ok (He fitted new motor)
A year later I returned to france only to find that it only works for about 10 yards then it goes out of control and does whatever it likes.
It has Acoms Techniplus 2 channel radio 27Mhz fitted I have checked aeriel is ok, tried someone elses handset, swapped crystals, made sure batteries are fully charged and I am now at a loss as to what to do.
I dont have any confidence in taking it back to person who built it.
If I were to change radio gear completly what system would you suggest I use.
Or can you point me in direction of problem
Regards Steve
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Hi Seralph
It may seem daft , but have you got the crystal s in the correct place? IE. receiver crystal in the receiver, and the transmitter crystal in the transmitter???,
If you go to change the set, I think most of us are going over to 2.4 .there are a couple of cheep ons on the market, try the internet .
£35.00 and £85 .00, depends on your chose of make?
Not much more I can add mate,,good luck,
Ken..
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Hi Steve, welcome to mayhem.
Reading your question, it appears the only thing thats changed is the motor,& since then you have had the problem. I think the new motor is causing interference to the radio signal, while the boat is near the transmitter the signal is strong enough to overcome it, but as the boat moves further away, the interference becomes too much for the radio signal. this isn't an uncommon problem & can be quiet easy to fix if you can solder ( or know someone who can. Try fitting some capacitors to the motor, these help eliminate the sparks from the motor, which can cause the interference.
Go to the home page & use the search to look for this thread: SUPPRESION CAPACITORS ADVICE this should give you the information needed to fit the required capacitors.
Its not guaranteed to fix it, but its cheap & easy to do & usually solves the problem
Also make sure your receiver Ariel is outside of your boat & vertical to ensure it has the best chance of receiving a clear signal.
Cheers Glenn
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Hi
Ken Thanks for reply crystals defo in right (tried ones out of a friends boat and tried mine in his)
Glen good thoughts there thankyou I will try that
Regards Steve
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Also check for loose batteries and or corroded battery tabs.... also check the aerial isn't loose.
But usually motor interference is the most common cause as Glenn says along with metal to metal fittings.
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You need to do a 'range check' first.
With the motor not running, switch on the radio and make sure the transmitter aerial is collapsed. Move the rudder stick while slowly walking away from the boat. See how far tou can get away from the boat before the servos start 'twitching' and you have no control. Even with an Acoms, you should get 20 - 25 meters away.
Now try the same with the aerial fully extended. (You may need some help with this one!). Walk away from the boat and see how far you can get without the servos twitching. You should be able to get 75 - 80 (or more) meters away before the servos start twitching. If you only get to the same distance as above ie 25 meters the reciever is probably damaged. If everything is ok try the next step.
Now try with transmitter aerial extended and the motor running. See how far you can get away from the boat before the servos start twitching. If the servos start twitching around 25 meters or less, the motor is causing interference and needs suppressors fitting.
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Range check without motor running nice one (why didnt I think of that) %)
You say with aeriel up 80 meters or more I assume the more to be not much more I was after 200 yards plus
If I want this sort of range would I be better changing radio gear and if so what for
I have put batterys on charge ro try this tange test as boat hasnt been touched since last july when it broke down in france
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Steve
At the risk of upsetting the ACOMS Faithful (again), this radio is a budget one and was designed primarily for R/C cars, which don't require a long range. If you want more range then you'll need to go upmarket a bit for a radio which was intended more for model aircraft. There are any number out there, and all have their devotees.
The cheap Chinese 2.4GHz radios are popular, although there are a few quality issues with some of the sets and, of course, after-sales support is generally nil. Above that there's the Spektrum 2.4GHz sets (still a few quirks but they do have a UK distributor with a good customer ethos) and then the 'proper' ones i.e. Futaba, Hitec, JR, Sanwa etc. Like most things, you tend to get what you pay for.
If there are no problems with the availability of frequencies where you sail then I would still advocate a 40MHz FM radio as the best current option. I use Hitec myself.
FLJ
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Hi
Thanks for reply
What sort of range will I be looking at
If I go for something like yours (40MHz FM radio as the best current option. I use Hitec myself)
I would need 2 channel but may look at 3 and have bait dropper on seperate servo
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Range?
Easy 400m, which is further than most people could see a non sail model, in order to see what direction it is pointing.
Further than most of us can cast a fishing hook anyway.
800m also easily feasible with a good line of sight and perhaps some elevation from a bridge or bund (levee).
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Unless it's a tiny model - or your eyesight is lousy - then if you can see it you can control it. 1/4 mile ground range is typical.
I advise you not to waste your money on a 2 channel set, even if you can find a 40MHz FM in 2-channel format. 3 channel sets tend to be 'steerwheel and trigger throttle' for cars, so go for at least a 4 channel with two dual-axis sticks, and buy just the Tx, Rx and one servo.
FLJ
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EG....
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19330.msg187701#msg187701
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15463.msg150701#msg150701
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I advise you not to waste your money on a 2 channel set, even if you can find a 40MHz FM in 2-channel format. 3 channel sets tend to be 'steerwheel and trigger throttle' for cars, so go for at least a 4 channel with two dual-axis sticks, and buy just the Tx, Rx and one servo.
FLJ
I take that to mean the servos I already have will work with the 40mhz then thats good
Right a look around for a decent 40mhz set it is then
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Oh But now Martins links have me looking at 2.4
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there's no doubt that a good quality 2.4 or 40 mhz set will improve the range, but if your motor is causing the interference, it will still effect the new set, although maybe to a lesser extent. so its worth going through the range checks with the motor stopped & running as others have suggested, to find out if the motor is the cause of your current trouble. If you can solve the problem it will optimise your set up if you decide to go for a new radio system
cheers Glenn
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Yes I am going to do that glenn
But thought while I am at it I am going to overhaul the boat fully it defo isnt going to break down if france this year and if it does I will of built it so will have spares and tools to fix it.
Looked at motor tonight and it hasnt got any of those suppressors on so that is first job (Maplins tommorrow)
I thought I would get a new radio set so either 2.4 or 40 aint decided yet
Thought I would get a spare speed controller and the little square thing that gets hot (whatever that is)
now mine has got this sort fitted
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/pict/1603975076446464_1.jpg)
Now judging by the availability on ebay I take it these are old hat so what should I be replacing it with
God this is a minefield
Regards Steve
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(http://i.ebayimg.com/14/!Bjk57P!CGk~$(KGrHqYH-CoEt!JfF)iiBLUJVr,Ps!~~_35.JPG)
That picture was a bit small
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wow that belongs in a museum... {-) {-) {-)
i think you would be better off visiting the Intermodelbau in Dortmund, theres a lot of Radios and ESC to be picked up on the cheep side.
theres normally Buses organised from the UK
but if not, you have a few Shows in the UK as well, were the required parts can be obtained.
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Yes I am going to do that glenn
But thought while I am at it I am going to overhaul the boat fully it defo isnt going to break down if france this year and if it does I will of built it so will have spares and tools to fix it.
Looked at motor tonight and it hasnt got any of those suppressors on so that is first job (Maplins tommorrow)
I thought I would get a new radio set so either 2.4 or 40 aint decided yet
Thought I would get a spare speed controller and the little square thing that gets hot (whatever that is)
now mine has got this sort fitted
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/pict/1603975076446464_1.jpg)
Now judging by the availability on ebay I take it these are old hat so what should I be replacing it with
God this is a minefield
Regards Steve
Yes. Replace the mechanical device with an electronic one. If they grow a layer of muck on the wiper area, that can generate lots of interference as well. Doing that, you wind up with a spare servo, but spares never come amiss.
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Ok Then it is oviously built with bits from the arc
So Lets start getting a shopping list together
Want to try and sort it for around £100 if I can so what shall I buy
Decided on the 40mhz
Radio system 40mhz (What Type?)
Electronic Speed controller (What Type?) (do they all work with all systems?)
Will servos I have work with new radio system ?
What is the little square thing thats gets hot with a cage round it?
Do I need that in?
Can it be replaced with something better?
Is £100 a realistic figure to sort it ?
Is there anything else I need on shopping list ?
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I've sent you a PM.
FLJ
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FLJ
I have had a look at motor and it just says
HRS550s-8819F
DC7.2v/G
2008.3
Does this help
Regards Steve
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Googled this and found a reference to an electric flight motor. Seems to draw around 8A on load, judging by the duration and battery capacity that the guy quotes. Belt-and-braces says a 15A - 20A speed controller should do the job on 7.2 - 8.4 volts. Sling out that square thing that gets hot NOW!
Similar gen on the main battery and a servo would be very helpful - we're pretty good on here but we know we ain't telepathic!
FLJ
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Don't throw it away. Put it on ebay- a Tamiya car collector will pay a couple of quid for that, which you can put towards a decent electronic speed controller.
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Servos
Acoms ic AS12 Servo (Already been told they are poo so will be changed)
Main Battery
537-5438
6v 10ah/20hr
Valve Regulated Sealed Lead Acid
Standby use 6.75v / 6.9v
Cycle use 7.2v / 7.5v
initial current less than 3a
Hope this helps
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Another thing that has not been mentioned,
You only use the boat rarely.
Make sure the propshaft runs freely,any amount of standing,will cause a certain amount of corosion in the prop tube.
This will make the motor and everything else work harder or eventually fail,most common sign is heat
Grease the shaft,makes sure runs nice and free,before attaching motor
Mark
Same applies to rudder
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And is 40mhz OK in France?
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And is 40mhz OK in France?
Aint got a clue how would I find out
All the english carp lads use bait boats in france so cant see it been a problem
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The following frequencies are allowed in France for all types of models (boats, cars and aeromodels)
26,995 - 27,045 - 27,095 - 27,145 - 27,195 MHz
41,110 - 41,120 - 41,130 - 41,140 - 41,150 - 41,160 - 41,170 - 41,180 - 41,190 - 41,200 MHz
72,210 - 72,230 - 72,250 - 72,270 - 72,290 - 72,310 72,330 - 72,350 - 72,370 - 72,390 - 72,410 - 72,430 72,450 - 72,470 - 72,490 MHz
The following frequencies are allowed in France for aeromodelling only:
26,815 - 26,825 - 26,835 - 26,845 - 26,855 - 26,865 - 26,875 - 26,885 - 26,895 - 26,905 - 26,915 MHz
35,000 - 35,010 MHz
40,665 - 40,675 - 40,685 - 40,695 MHz
Until 31st December 2010: 41,000 - 41,010 - 41,020 - 41,030 - 41,040 - 41,050 MHz
41,060 - 41,070 - 41,080 - 41,090 - 41,100 MHz
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Although who would know we are on a private lake in the middle of nowhere
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Ah - HA! No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition - or the French Carp Police! <*<
FLJ
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Well I am gobsmacked at shop owners attitude
Thanks to everyone on here for help and advice I bought some stuff from FLJ and what a super service
Needed some radio gear and armed with advice from this forum I decide to support local business and not buy mail order so went today to local model shop.
Walked in and said to shop owner what I had posted on here about bait boat and asked what he thought.
his reply;
I am not here to give you advice I am here to sell you something
On that note he was told where to shove his shop and I will be buying mail order.
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hi all
just been reading the posts and for the last 18months not one bit of my 27mhz gear works for a good range anymore.
been told there is so much stuff using 27 now that the signal just gets washed out.
so all my 27mhz rc was sold on ebay just to get rid.
hope this helps.
elvis