Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: martno1fan on December 14, 2006, 07:14:33 pm
-
hi ive just aquired a set of plans for a trimaran called the nightmare from the designer Ernst Zemann from austria.does anyone here sail tri marans?.heres the boat in question he has given me permission to make the plans available to anyone check out the link and download them if you want them all he asks is you say thanks to him and poat pics of your build. heres his builds next link will be for the plans.the drawings were done by Eric Stolz.
]] (http://)http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=48237
]] (http://)http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=45060
http://http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=49502
-
All it is is a simple typing error, nothing to get upset over. ;)
The correct site address is here; http://community.webshots.com/user/boatbuilder (http://community.webshots.com/user/boatbuilder)
-
All it is is a simple typing error, nothing to get upset over. ;)
The correct site address is here; http://community.webshots.com/user/boatbuilder (http://community.webshots.com/user/boatbuilder)
was actually a site problem not mine i merely pasted it on here dunno what happened anyways its done now.has anyone else built this boat yet? anyone know of it or how it sails?.
-
I used to sail mini 40 tri's, I was also the secretary of the British Model Multihull Association. I can help with tips, but the main one if you are building from scratch is to keep it light.
My last boat was a mix of Andy McCullocks latest main hull, Freight Train, and french floats from the club at Cergy Pontoise in France. The boat was about 4lb all up weight and came third in the last Coupe De France I entered. I also used swing rigs, originally the boat was conventional rig, but it was re-rigged to swing rig when I fitted the French floats. I make sails, (www.windpowersails.8m.com) and particularly used to specialise in Multihull sails. Though now In do have patterns for most classes.
You also need to fit a wing on the bottom of the rudder, typically a spitfire shaped wing with plenty of depth, this can be set at zero angle of incidence and will stop the boat from nose diving and tripping, this is another reason the boat needs to be light, so that it accelerates rather than tripping over the lee float.
If you make the wing to slim, you will not get the same down force (the wing is upside down) and will need to set a couple of degrees down into it which will cause drag. The wing can be made adjustable so you can slip acouple of washers in it to alter the angle, but if the shape is correct this will not be required.
More info can be found at
http://www.apolloboatservices.co.uk/
Anthony is not related, just a similar name. GBR6 is my second tri.
The British model multihull assoc
http://freespace.virgin.net/model.multihulls/
If you need any other info let me know, you can send a pm or through the forum, my contact email is at my sails website.
Regards Andy
-
thanks for the reply andy id be glad of any help as this is al new to me.i havent had the plans printed as yet so im not sure if it has the wing you talk about but id be interested in finding out how to build one for it .even if its not on the plans.ill be sure to pm you about sails and a few tips soon many thanks.
-
Tks for posting the link to your website and that of Apollo. It gave me an interesting and long :-[ tea-break.
As I matter of interest, maybe you could pm me with a price indication for a set of sails to the drawings in the first post of:
http://www.modelzeilen.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19
-
You also need to fit a wing on the bottom of the rudder, typically a spitfire shaped wing with plenty of depth, this can be set at zero angle of incidence and will stop the boat from nose diving and tripping, this is another reason the boat needs to be light, so that it accelerates rather than tripping over the lee float.
If you make the wing to slim, you will not get the same down force (the wing is upside down) and will need to set a couple of degrees down into it which will cause drag.
Andy
I am building the "Snapdragon" ( STAVROS - keep quiet about this ;)) and of course it has the wing on the rudder. I appreciate that it should be thick in order to produce a lifting force at the (aerodynamically) low speeds .
However a symetrical section is shown on the plans whereas I would have thought a cambered section placed inverted would be more effective ? I would appreciate your comments on this .
Don B
-
Pay me on Sunday then Don :D
-
Welsh Driud
The snapdragon is a nice boat, you are correct in that the upper surface of the wing should be flat, and the lower surface aerofoil shape, the same goes for angle of attack, to keep drag low a neutral or as near as poss angle of attack, letting the foil shape give the required downforce. When building keep the weight as minimal as possible, I know you can't do much about the hulls as these are ready moulded, but be weight conscious when fitting out.
Andy
-
Andy
Thanks for that. It confirms what I thought. I am building this from the plans so have produced my own hulls. I have just weighed them and all 3 are about the same at just under fourteen ounces each (without decks). The plan says 6.5 lbs so I should be able to match that I think. How about the sail area - I was thinking of about the Marblehead B rig or equivelent. Would that be too much to begin with ? We don't have a rescue boat >:(
Thanks
Don
-
hi are the plans available on the net fro the snap dragon?,also i have the nightmare plans and ghost train plans im still unsure which one to build either of these or? any suggestions?.preferably free 0ones i can download lol ;).thanks.
-
hi are the plans available on the net fro the snap dragon?,.
No - you have to buy them from Traplet. They are not comprehensive building plans - just outlines and frames with a few suggestions for building. OK for an experienced builder though.
Don
-
hi are the plans available on the net fro the snap dragon?,also i have the nightmare plans and ghost train plans im still unsure which one to build either of these or? any suggestions?.preferably free 0ones i can download lol ;).thanks.
Hi, see the topic '20% off' by tigertiger under plans and information, both the snapdragon and a few other multihulls are advertised
MikeK
-
hi are the plans available on the net fro the snap dragon?,also i have the nightmare plans and ghost train plans im still unsure which one to build either of these or? any suggestions?.preferably free 0ones i can download lol ;).thanks.
Hi, see the topic '20% off' by tigertiger under plans and information, both the snapdragon and a few other multihulls are advertised
MikeK
hi where can i find the thread? cant seem to find it .thanks
-
It is under Research and Information Heading entitled 20% Off by Tigertiger
MikeK
-
got it thanks!!.
-
All you budding multihull fans I can not stress enough build them light, keep them light, if I had the time to seriously campaign a multihull in any sort of competition, it would have to be light.
Andy
-
All you budding multihull fans I can not stress enough build them light, keep them light, if I had the time to seriously campaign a multihull in any sort of competition, it would have to be light.
Andy
andy mine will be light its going to be balsa for the main hull covered with glass cloth 120g and the floats will be either the same or i may go with a foam block build covered with glass cloth.12.7mm alli for the mast and 20 mm for the cross beams.im going to use ripstop for sails and make them myself using double sided tape as ive used this method before.i used the balsa and glass cloth covering on my sail boat and she is very light and strong too.also once we get these babys built we need to all get together and sail em ;)
-
I have to say that I've always fancied building a trimaran, and I have the plans for Freighttrain.... But my local club has unrestricted yacht races, where any boat can race irrespective of size/rig/whatever. Surprisingly enough, the results are always very close at the end of the season, some boats do well in strong winds, some in light winds, and overall things level themselves out over the year....
So I was wondering how competitive a trimaran is likely to be racing against mono-hulls? Would anyone care to comment?
Regards
Eddy
-
eddy ive never sailed one so not sure but from what i have seen and read they are way faster than a mono hull.im sure andy can tell us in more detail,one thing i supose mono hulls have over them is they dont tip over as easy but im just guessing .heres a link to a discusion about it check it out http://http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?t=2920&highlight=10R+sterne+viper
-
Watching a multihull sailing at my club, it is difficult to say which type wins out. On a broad reach the multihull tips a float in the air and takes off like a bat out of hell, leaving a mono way behind, but and the end of the run (providing it didn't tip just too much !) when tacking or gybing it can come to a dead stop as the lack of weight doesn't give it the impetus to move across the wind and quite some time is spent stuck in irons. It seems a bit of all or nothing progress but it most certainly is on the edge sailing. I'm sure you will have a great time with them
MikeK
-
mike can i ask what size the muti was? i know there are small multis available in some shops but they are not very good by all accounts.i would have thought the lighter the boat the better especially in light winds.a lot of mono hulls keel bulbs weigh as much as some multis do fully rigged.im hoping to keep mine arround the 5 1/2 to 6lb mark.its 4 ft long and 87"from deck to mast top.i think from what ive read and been told keeping them light allows them to accelerate rather than the float dip under which can be a problem im told especially if the floats are too narrow in the bow section.which most of the small rtr ones ive seen are.i cant wait to get mine started next year but i have a project to finnish before i can start which is why im spending some time on researching about them.they certainly look lik fun though.mind you i might need to get a resue boat too or a good pair of waders ;D.
-
Hi, I don't know the exact size, but the floats must have been near Marblehead length (around 4ft) , much the same size as your intended build. The centre hull was a thin blade affair looking a bit like a plane fuselage in profile. I can't recall if the radio gear was squashed in there somewhere or in one of the floats. Very light and very very fast except for the irons bit I mentioned. I don't think my nerves could handle sailing one for long, nor my patience be enough when it tipped over which I think it would often with me on the sticks ;D ;D
MikeK
-
sounds like it was a bit of a home built experiment!!,i think its certainly going to be a big learning curve for me driving one of these but it should be fun.lets hope it spends more time upright than on its side though as i dont fancy swimming as its a big lake and salt water and its full of eels and crabs lol.normally when im there theres no one in the club house so i cant even get the resue boat out lol.looks like ill have to buy my lad an inflatable dingy lol.
-
Too deep for chest waders ??
-
eddy ive never sailed one so not sure but from what i have seen and read they are way faster than a mono hull.im sure andy can tell us in more detail,one thing i supose mono hulls have over them is they dont tip over as easy but im just guessing .heres a link to a discusion about it check it out http://http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?t=2920&highlight=10R+sterne+viper
Thanks for that - Seems like the general concensus is that multi-hulls are faster than mono's in anything over a very light breeze.... Maybe it's time I actually got round to building one?
Eddy
-
eddy if you want i can send you the plans for the nightmare i have all the frames and side and top views even has the servo positions in the hull etc.i also have four sheets with exact measurements for everything pluss plans of the sails 2 suits i think. ;)
-
Too deep for chest waders ??
not too deep but knowing my luck ill trip over some bloody shopping trolley from tescos lol.
-
I thought that was all part of the fun of it, the Tesco trolley, the abandoned stolen bike the lurking Asda carrier bag waiting to turn into an instant sea anchor. Part of modern living ;D ;D
MikeK
-
hi mate ive been searching the net and i found this thread on another site about the irons issue and seems if the boat is designed and built well its not that much of an issue.apparently angling the cross beams up slightly makes the boat tack better read this and see what peter birch has to say.http://http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?t=2543
-
i forgot to add this its a cpl of videos of a small multi hull looks like he needs a wing on his rudder oops!!!http://http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/clipper_007/?action=view¤t=Capsize.flv
-
Hi there,
Looks like an interesting site for all things sailing. I've bookmarked it for future reading, thanks.
If what the Australian gent says is correct then the 'V' configuration of the floats to centre hull certainly solves the irons problem I mentioned. When I watched that multi it seemed that it was that due to the lack of weight it came almost to an immediate standstill as soon as it lost ideal driving winds, but the Aussy gentleman reckons that he could tack as easily as a mono and he certainly seemed to know what he was on about.
Look forward to reading your progress whenever you get to build it.
Regards
MikeK
PS just read your latest - off to look at videos. At this rate you'll have me planning a new project as well :D :D
-
glad you liked the links apparently the guy is well respected and does know what hes doing.if you fancy the plans i have pm me your email and ill send them all ,theyre in pdf mainly just need to click the correct ones as he attached some in other formats too.im sure you can sort them out and they print well on a 4 paper and arent hard to peice together although you need quite a few sheets of a4 lol!!
-
Martin
I'd say apart from the fact he has no wing, the top of his main has a lot of 'twist', this is causing the top of the mast to be pushed over the float, making the boat 'trip.' If his kicker was a bit tighter it would flatten and depower the top of the rig.
Andy
-
andy i did notice that also but im no expert so wasnt sure that was the cause .the boat also looked quite small maybe a metre long at a guess.pluss it was pretty windy ,what kind of wind would you sail these boats in what i mean is can you sail them in the same conditions youd sail say a IOM?.obviously you would need sails to suit the conditions.i was considering what rigs to make as i live on the coast the light wind rig wouldnt get much use so i was thinking of a second rig and a storm rig for when it blows .also on the plans i notice the mast is angled back towards the transome quite a bit,also have you heard of what i said before angling the cross beams up a bit so the floats are lifted higher than the main hulls water line so they dont both sit in the water when the boat is under way.
-
Martin,
Yes you need to angle the beams up to keep the floats clear of the water.
I had four suits of sails for mine, because I do get a lot of time off when its windy, so I sailed it more in strong winds than light, I used to find if it capsized in a good blow, more often than not it would right it self, it would have drag caused by the rigs, so the floats would blow to leeward and up she would come, they will sail in as much wind as a 1metre, just so long as you aren't overcanvassed. They are very exciting, it amazes me how on the grass or side of the pond they will blow away and self destruct, you struggle to hold them, and once on the water they are so much safer. Allways carry large screwdriver and pin the mast to the ground when they are ashore.
You tend to rake the mast back some to stop the lee float from being driven under the water, when the mast is raked it is suppose to provide some lift. These boats don't seem so affected by weather helm as a monohull, i guess the drag from ther lee float keeps things balanced.
-
Thanks for the offer of the plans, Martin, but I am in the middle of a long, slow 'what the hell - I'll do it tomorrow' build of a planked A Class yacht so if you don't mind I will build a multi by proxy by watching your progress ;D ;D
Regards
MikeK
-
Martin,
Yes you need to angle the beams up to keep the floats clear of the water.
.
Andy
The plans for the Snapdragon show a waterline with all three hulls immmersed at the same time. Granted the outriggers are not by very much. Is this because it was designed before the "rocker" effect was seen to be useful ? If there would be an advantage to have the outriggers higher I would not be able to use the straight tubular beams as shown and will have to fabricate different ones. Comments welcome please.
Don B.
BTW - I see you are skipper of the "Mair" - do you service the buoys around Cardigan Bay ? If so I will have seen you moored off the St. Tudwals islands - I look out at them from my house.
-
thanks for the input ANDY much appreciated no doubt when i do start the build there will be more questions for you ,i hope you dont mind ;).DON i think if you think about it you can still use the straight beams all thats needed is to raise the centre attach point on the main hull to give you the 6% or so height difference on the floats.on the plans for my boat the floats sit level with the cwl of the main hull so raising the centre attach point slightly on yours should raise the floats to the desired height i would think?.Andy i take it that when the boat is sitting level the floats are just above the water? how much by would you say?or are they just barely touching the water?.
martin
-
heres the coolest video ever hope you all enjoy it!!http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWINygISxDE&eurl=
-
Brilliant video, it must be one of the greatest highs to be sailing flat out on a big multi.
MikeK
-
This has been one of the most interesting threads I have had the pleasure of reading and posting replies. All of the video links have been superb.
Andy
-
This has been one of the most interesting threads I have had the pleasure of reading and posting replies. All of the video links have been superb.
Andy
Andy im glad ive kept you amused lol hers another two videos of some rc multis that ernst zemmen sent me.i beleive the white one is the ghost train that was modified some to put more volume in the floats i beleive not sure if this was done before or after the vid but she seems to scoot along nicely .i also added some pics of the ghost train after alterations to floats at the bow.enjoy after all its nearly christmas lol
]] (http://)http://www.modellbauvideos.de/index.php?id=64
]] (http://)http://www.modellbauvideos.de/index.php?id=44
http://http://www.rc-network.de/magazin/artikel_06/art_06-079/art_079-01.html
-
Excellent videos - I noticed that one of the Trimarans had what looks like a foam flotation (?) block at the top of the mast - presumably to stop a complete inverted capsize. Anybody know how effective these are and if they are really necessary ?
I just roughly assembled the three hulls for my Snapdragon with the beams in place. Wow - these things really are big - no longer than some of my other boats but its the beam that makes them seem to fill the room. Which brings another problem - in order to get the flotation level right to ensure the floats are just higher than the main hull before I fix the beams to main the hull it needs to be in the water, I normally test my boats in the bath - but I haven't got a 4 foot wide bath :D
Don B.
-
kids paddling pool ? lol,glad you liked the vids i beleive the floatation does work or so i understand time will tell lol .it needs to swing on a pin i beleive but im not sure how that works ,this allows it to move in the wind and it is a good wind indicator ive been told.i think they are foam covered with glass or epoxy .back to getting your hulls to correct level if you work out where your cwl is on the main hull sit the boat level then just put the floats so the bottom of them sits slightly higher than the cwl, should work in theory.just measure up from the floor or table or use a straight edge set level touching the main hull.and measure up from there to get the floats to the correct height.not sure how much higher but you could experiment and see what works best.maybe andy can help with this one?.
ps any pics of you boat for us? please ;)
-
I make a jig to sit the 3 hulls in and fit the crossbeams in the jig, this keeps every thing square. The method if using straight carbon tube is to fix this in position on top of the main hull, the floats, the beams can go through the sides of the floats, this is very srtrong, usually you resin thicker tubes in the floats, so the beams will slide into this. you can rig a boat in 10 minutes at the lake, better tham bolting every thing.
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3978/croppedim6hjr9.th.jpg) (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=croppedim6hjr9.jpg)
my tri in France.
(http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/8250/croppedim8hnm3.th.jpg) (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=croppedim8hnm3.jpg)
Mine and a friend of mine in France, both boats sponsored by windpowersails.
-
andy you dont think were gonna let you off that easy do you? details lol pics of it and a few tips on how to do it would be great.for your help id like to share this video with you lol
http://http://www.thedailysail.com/ism/articles.nsf/Photo/D984342CE7CB5CF3802571BF001905DB
-
ps any pics of you boat for us? please ;)
OK early progress photos. Main hull planked and glassed - yet to be sanded and fitted out. Outer hulls - white foam (to be left in) covered in fibreglass, beam supports fixed on and beams shown in place. Outer hulls will not be decked but covered in coloured stick-on vinyl for lightness. (BTW you can see I am limited for building space :( )
Don B.
-
I would set that up so that the floats are higher than the main hull, this will make the sails set better in light winds, and you will go faster because only the main hull and one float would be in the water. It will also tack better, its easier to do it now than after completion
Andy
-
Thanks Andy, only the floats are connected at the moment - the relationship to the main hull has to be established - I will certainly do as you suggest. BTW - did you see my earlier posting which included a question about you and the Mair ?
Don B.
-
At this rate Don you will need a transit van to transport it !!!!
Merry Xmas
-
You can make the beams enter the floats just below deck level, this will lift the floats, or space the beams up a bit where they cross the main hull, doing this will give you the chance to fit different spacers. Keep the beams straight they will be stronger. It doesn't harm to have the floats angled out slightly at the bottom, so they sit upright when the boat sits on the main hull and the one float.
We do get up your way sometimes in Mair, we usually overnight at Porth Dinllaen.
Look at these photos
http://www.rc-network.de/magazin/artikel_06/art_06-079/art_079-01.html
Andy
-
Andy is that a modified ghost train? were those raised bits at the bow to add volume to the hulls?.how does she sail now compaired to before,the reason i ask is a freind is building the ghost train too .check out this thread on rcu it might also interest Don
PS I SEEN THOSE PICS BEFORE!!
http://http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5101037/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
-
I think it is a modified Ghost Train, I really don't think the floats need that. But I did find the floats I bought in France improved the boat, there was a lot more rocker in them. It tacked better. Certainly I did not lose anything. If I had the time I would build another like it. Shame I sold it really.
Andy
-
the reason i asked is i was told there had been a big discusion on a german site about the lack of volume in the floats of the ghost train and i think thats where the pics are from?.i cant wait to build mine (nightmare vII) in the spring,i was thinking of just building the b rig to start with a 170 cm mast as i doubt id ever use the a rig anyway .i may also do the c rig and start sailing it with that first till im used to how she handles.how much higher would you lift the floats in comparison with the cwl on the main hull how high would you say the bottom of the floats need to be .1 inch maybe or more?.
-
The second rig at 1.7m is fine, its not that much smaller than the full rig, you will probably get more use out of it. The floats need to be about 12mm above the waterline when the boat is sat in the water, this is at max beam for a mini40 of 1.250m, you can load the hulls up and tape things together to do a trial float test, but it is very important to have a float clear of the water when at rest, it will perform so much better.
Andy
-
Thanks for that Andy ill be sure to do that i appreciate your help mate .
-
hi guys hope everyone had a great xmas and new year? .anyone get anything nice for xmas ?.
-
Sails for multihulls at www.windpowersails.8m.com
-
The Snapdragon.
Almost finished - just the sails to make now :)
Don B.
-
Thats looking good. Be nice to see it on the water. Sails available at www.windpowersails.8m.com
Andy
-
Seriously, if you are going to make your own sails, even if you make them from one panel, make the luff (Where the main joins the mast) sorry to explain like this, but don't know your knowledge of sailing. Any way the luff needs to be curved, so that about 2/3rds up the sail is max curve, and this measurement needs to be upto 10mm, no more, this will put curve in the sail panel, and also when you tighten down on the kicking strap you won't get a crease from the tack to the mast. giving the panels shape also helps, but I can't explain here how to do it.
Andy
-
Thanks Andy I appreciate the advice. I have made a few sets of sails for various boats so I have a fair idea of what I am going to do with this one (sorry if that sounds arrogant - it isnt meant too) but advice is always welcome.
I have been into yacht sailing ( full size) for quite a few years. Amongst several types of dinghies which I owned , I built my own OK single hander and sailed it in the OK Class World Champs back in the 60's. Learnt a lot about aerodynamics during my 15 years of gliding and then later owned a 32 ft ketch which I sailed as far North as the Scottish Isles and South to Brittany and Spain. So I guess I picked up a lot of theory on the way. Added to which a good friend has a sail loft in Pwllheli where I pick up tips ;)
Thanks for your interest.
Don
-
Looks good Don when we have Bubbly on the banks of the lake.Make sure this time it is on a sunday will you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Welsh Druid
Cheers you should have something tidy when all done. plenty of experience anyway, I was brought up sailing, later going to sea as a career, involved in yacht deliveries, I just make model yacht sails in my spare time now. Still working though as a skipper at sea.
Andy
-
hi Don looking good mate cant wait to see her on the water dont forget to get some pics and video of her when she gets wet!!.from the pics she looks like she has a flat deck on all hulls is that right? i was told a flat deck makes it harder for them do desperse water if one float goes under? slowing the boat down a lot also if that happens not having sailed on i dont know but its what i was told.that rounded decks are the best way to go maybe andy can clear this up?.dont think im knockin your build mate she looks nice ,im making the sails myseld also as i have lots of ripstop lying arround and i have a few sites with how to do it etc i uses.thanks for the tip on the luff for flat sails andy thats a good idea ill try that one for my current boat.i cant be bothered to make panelled ones for her but may do for the multi i know how to do it by making a camber board to put the shape in just cand be bothered when it comes to it.i made flat ones for my current boat and they work fine for fun but then i dont race so im not worried.
-
Seriously, if you are going to make your own sails, even if you make them from one panel, make the luff (Where the main joins the mast) sorry to explain like this, but don't know your knowledge of sailing. Any way the luff needs to be curved, so that about 2/3rds up the sail is max curve, and this measurement needs to be upto 10mm, no more, this will put curve in the sail panel, and also when you tighten down on the kicking strap you won't get a crease from the tack to the mast. giving the panels shape also helps, but I can't explain here how to do it.
Andy
Sorry to sound dumb but is this a convex curve of the luff or concave?
-
Tiger
Its convex You might find this link useful
http://www.sailsetc.com/downloads/Sailmaking_Notes.pdf
Don
-
heres a usefull link too
]] (http://)http://home.mindspring.com/~pmyc100/Sailmaking.htm
and another one i like
http://http://www.myrc.org/Library/Library.htm#SailboatBuilding
-
ok boys and girls seeing as you enjoyed the last videos i posted i thought you may like thes too hope you enjoy them .ok they arent rc boats but they are multis and well they are just so good !!
]] (http://)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4BCSKTbB98&mode=related&search=
]] (http://)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk8A-Mx2yKw&mode=related&search=
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Sq-N0n_PI&mode=related&search=
-
The Snapdragon has sailed :D
It went superbly apart from when I kept getting into irons - helmsman fault not the boat.
Then an almighty gust sent it off at a wild speed followed by the lee hull digging in and a pitchpole.
With no rescue boat and no-one with waders the retrieve was interesting :D
Don B.
-
Great video Don - lovely boat,lovely lake and lovely music. You could almost sense the clenched buttocks everytime Snapdragon lifted the onto the lee float alone ;D ;D
MikeK
-
Looks very good Welsh Druid, impressive turn of speed, just be careful of bearing away under power, this is when pitch poles can occur. Bet you are pleased with the end result.
Andy
-
cracking video Don wish I was there will you have it repaired by weds or will it be sun Stav
-
Stavros
Its fixed already - the only damage was one of the diamond stays on the mast had come adrift - caused by the mast hitting the bottom of the lake as we dragged it ashore. Fixed it in less than ten minutes. The weather forecast is showing rain and 23 mph wind for Wed. so not too sure about then :(
Don
-
hi mate going to watch the vid when its loaded if i were you id put mast buoyancy on the mast to stop her going right over that way the wind will eventually right her again.
just watched the smaller vid wow mate she looks nice and sails well great job now im going to watch the longer one thanks for sharing mate great video.dont forget the mast buoyancy it will save a lot of wading lol.also i notice the decks are flat? if thats the case id maybe think of adding some roundness at the bows at least. to let the floats shed water faster if they dip under this should help stop her pitch poling .just round some foam and epoxy it to the bow sections and epoxy coat them and that should do the trick just an idea but she looks really nice .doesnt look like mines gonna get built any time soon just had a lot to fork out on other things so shes on the back burner for now unfortunately.well done on the build shes looks great on the water and pretty fast too.
-
Hi, just note to say Hi and let you view a couple of pics of my Tri, she was bought over the net as a Lets give it a go, having never saild Tris before, but being told what an art it is!. Sheis not large and unforgiving, but with a fin added to her rudder to keep her leeward outrigger from dipping its toes so often she sails butt clenchingly fine withnot as many visits with the waders!
-
Just found this site for a very fast Tri with foils....
http://www.hydroptere.com/index.php4?lang=EN (http://www.hydroptere.com/index.php4?lang=EN)
Now that has to be a wild ride .....
-
well looking forward to seeing the new boat that welsh Druid had built going today but alas no as someone had forgotten the joining spars at home on his work bench hadn't you Don!!!!!!!!!
-
ive seen that tri on the net before she looks pretty how does she sail?,the size is the main problem normally the smaller ones dont handle too well from what ive seen.the one you have there are the outrigers higher than the main hull or level at the bottom? most tris now have the outrigers set slightly out of the water when the main hull is level to create a rocker effect.looks nice for a trf boat though.
Don how did you manage to forget the spars for the boat lol!!!
-
Just found this site for a very fast Tri with foils....
http://www.hydroptere.com/index.php4?lang=EN (http://www.hydroptere.com/index.php4?lang=EN)
Now that has to be a wild ride .....
thats one fast tri thanks for posting i still like this vid though it has to be the coolest ever!!put it on full screen mode and enjoy it hehe!!
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWINygISxDE&eurl=
-
heres another one of the wakeboarders.and for real butt clenching action watch the second one(yea baby!!)
]] (http://)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6JiYwQJ4ho&mode=related&search=
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN7qNMWywSE&mode=related&search=
-
In reply to MartNo1fan
The little tri doesn't handle too well in any gust conditions, prefers constant wind speed, handles enough to give a buzz for a while, but not a serious boat. The outriggers are set slightly raised to give a little rock,but the biggest "good" mod was the fin on the rudder, set @ 7*
-
just a lite wind boat then ? are you gonna build a bigger one? if so i have plans of a 4 ft tri.
-
After seeing Welsh Druids trimarang going today I just have got to have one,well wonder if anyone has built one out of 3 marbellhead hulls thinking cap on here Stavros
-
What ? with three keels and three heavy lead bulbs attached ? ;D
-
the thing with tris is a flat deck isnt a great idea as when the float dips under they dont desperse water quick enough resulting in a pitch poll ,far better to use one hull in the centre and build two floats from foam like this one!!
-
heres another pic,this one sails in strong winds and the guy who built it says it doesnt ever tip over as the floats are set slightly ahead of the main hull to form a triangle.hes sailed it in 35 mph wind too so it seems to work well.
-
Don even I am not thta silly one bulb 2x hulls martno 1 fan now those piccies have got me thinking,watch this space Don
-
Don even I am not thta silly one bulb 2x hulls martno 1 fan now those piccies have got me thinking,watch this space Don
ill look forward to seeing what you come up with mate,by the way the beams on that boat are flexable so they give a little which stops the boat tipping too ,it doesnt sail on the one hull much he says but it sails very fast ,ive seen a video of it too.he designed it as a fast easy way to try a multi hull.
-
Welsh Druid,
When you were travelling well and it was rising to one float the bow seemed to be digging in, on my Cat I have applied a small angled fin for when on one leg and the bow tries to dive this fin acts as an elevator and pushes the nose back up, would a similiar system help your boat in the same way....
Roy
-
Hi Roy
Like this do you mean ? I noted that and have increased the volume of the floats above the waterline to see if this has any effect. Unfortunately last Sunday was virtually no wind so could not see if that worked. The Tri ghosts along very nicely though even when the water is glassy calm :)
Don
-
Well Don been to shed the Marbletrimarthigny has been born will post photos soon(ssh dont tell that lot up on the lake ;))
-
Stavros dont keep us waiting too long get snapping lol, Don the extra volume will help im sure,id also round the deck off at least at the front 3rd to help her shift water if she does dip under .This should allow her to keep up speed and come through it so to speak ,if you get my drift lol.
-
Right then photos as promised if you all die laughing don't blame me,blame Welsh Druid for this one.Hull and pontoons are in very early development stages final shape to be decided!!!Outriggers are to be built up out of foam then covered with a single layer of grp tissue the outriggers will be designed with a slight upturn at the bow to stop any digging in I HOPE,I don't think the the hull is going to need building up but you will see from the photos that they are at the moment,the jury is out on this one!!Whether it will sail lord only knows but if it does yippee if not well it will be back to the drawing board so to speak.I cant see why not having been studdying my design all day off and on.Mast will be my old 10r and old set of sails from that as well as you will see lads this is all or nothing on this one I FEEL THE NEED FOR SPEED I will keep you posted so you can all have a good laugh at the heath robinson approach,watch this space so to speak for the next thrilling instalment from the shed ;)And before anyone says it I will keep taking the tablets
3rd photo is of he outrigger resting on the hull
-
Right then photos as promised if you all die laughing don't blame me,blame Welsh Druid for this one.
I hereby categorically deny ANY responsibility for this one. OK so my Tri impressed everyone at the club with its speed and at least one other as well as Stavros is building a Tri now because of it, but how this is being built is nothing to do with me.
Thank goodness I am going on holiday for a month just about the time when it may be finished ;D
Best of luck with it Stavros ;)
Don B.
-
Well sorry Welsh Druid if you had not built one I dont think i would have had shuch a brainstorm,will have to have a word with the doc about those pills,or should i keep off the wine
-
Hi Roy
Like this do you mean ? I noted that and have increased the volume of the floats above the waterline to see if this has any effect. Unfortunately last Sunday was virtually no wind so could not see if that worked. The Tri ghosts along very nicely though even when the water is glassy calm :)
Don
Don,
A similar idea mate but on my yacht they are mounted on the inside of the hull on the bow to prevent diving....
Roy
-
Roy that sounds like agood idea any chance of some pics of it so we can see exactly what you mean?.
-
Roy
I must admit I might not be thinking too clearly this morning but your idea is confusing me a little.
If the plates are mounted at the bow then do they have a positive angle to the flow over them - thus giving a lifting force ? If so then as the angle decreases due to the bows starting to dive then surely the correcting force will lessen due to the reducing angle of attack ?
If the plate is set at zero then surely this will give an increasing dive force as the bows go down ?
This assumes of course that the plates are fixed. I am basing my thinking on my experience with a canard configuration glider. In order to lift the nose the foreplane has to assume a positive angle of attack - the opposite of what will happen with a fixed plate on the bow of a diving hull as it starts to dive.
It just struck me - are they mounted below the waterline (in which case the above comments apply), or they above the waterline and only come into action when they are forced underwater by the bow diving - in which case I can see how they could then be effective in the early stages of the bow dipping, (but only up to the point when the angle of attack becomes negative).
Don
-
Don and Marty,
We are in the process of moving to a new house in the next two weeks and all my gear has been placed in the shed as we will have to move it from here anyway, so I will take a couple of pics tomorrow and post them tomorrow night, you may then get a better idea of what I mean....
Roy
-
Don and Marty,
We are in the process of moving to a new house in the next two weeks and all my gear has been placed in the shed as we will have to move it from here anyway, so I will take a couple of pics tomorrow and post them tomorrow night, you may then get a better idea of what I mean....
Roy
Hi Roy, so you are moving house mate . Let me know the map reference of the new one as it makes it easier for me smart weapons.
Best of luck with the move .
Richard ;)
-
Richard it is on the block of the address sent previously.......
Roy
-
Don and Marty,
Sorry for the delay but we have been quite busy with getting the new house set up and moving, but I managed to take a photo today
and this is what I meant and it does work well....
Roy
-
Roy.
Gooday mate
Your house moves??
What have you got ,a mobile home?? ;D ;D
Richard ;)
-
Hi Roy do they move or are they fixed? how does it work if the boat goes on one float?.by the way im going to try making my sailboat into a tri using foam pipe insulators and carbon beams.ive seen one like it on another site and they work well in all winds.hers a pic of one.
-
HUH IF I JUMPED INTO THE FIRE WOULD YOU ;)mY idea hands off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
HUH IF I JUMPED INTO THE FIRE WOULD YOU ;)mY idea hands off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
haha ive had pics of this idea for months and a cpl videos of it sailing are on rcu and the guys told me how its done its easy.no bolts no glue just tape on the floats etc also they are bendable so you can bend the bow up in chop with the beams been flexi enough so in rough water they give a little making it very hard for the boat to pitch over.seems to work as hes had it out in 35 mph winds and never pitched!!.also keep the floats slightly in front of the main hull this makes in nearly impossible for her to pitch the guys been experimenting for over a year with this idea and it works great according to him and another well respected guy who built tris comercially.by the way stavros it was me who gave you the idea in the first place when i posted the pics of this boat lol !! ;D
-
:D
-
Roy
Thanks for the photo - its all clear now - looks an interesting idea - may try it out to see if it works on the Tri. ( Sorry for the delay in answering - been away since late February cruising the Arabian/Red Sea/Med.)
Don
-
lucky for some mate,if you need some pics on how its done i have some the guy did i wont post them cos i dont know if hed be ok with it .all you need is tape and his have lasted 2 yrs on his boat.im still too busy to try it out ive just completed a deep v with petrol engine and its having its first outing this weekend all been well.wonder how the fleetwood lot will react to it hehe.
-
I went to Boracay (Philippines) early this month and they sail these beautiful plywood and bamboo trimaran.
I'm very tempted to make a model of one of these after my present projects. Do you think it might work without big changes to the original shape ?
-
I am about to build my first mini 40 catamaran, picking up the hulls tomorrow, have built and raced 5 mini 40 tri's, now its time to try a cat, more info at
http://my.opera.com/BMMApics/blog/
Lots of photos for you budding multihull fans.
Andy