Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: rouge2 on May 06, 2010, 05:21:39 PM

Title: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: rouge2 on May 06, 2010, 05:21:39 PM
Hi all,

My Name is Simon and as you can see this is my first post on this forum. Im a model builder (mostly Millitary + Sci-Fi ) and im about to take my first step into model subs.
Most of my boat modelling experience is around simple semi scale Balsa block design boats based on plans by people such as Glynn Guest.
Im just about to start my first r/c Submarine model. Its a simple semi scale kit called HMS Unseen based on a 60's era hunter killer sub. The plans came free with the submarine special of Marine Modelling International. Being new to subs its perfect for me as its a simple ply/balsa construction.

Once ive completed this sub id really like to have a go at a modern nuclear sub design  with  more of a cigar/cylindrical shaped hull rather than a u boat shaped hull. Does anyone know of any ply/balsa construction plans out their for this type of Hull targeted at beginers?

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Patrick Henry on May 06, 2010, 07:34:16 PM
Hi Simon,

Way back Glynn Guest had a plan published in Model Boats of a sub called 'Spook' which was a bit more of an up to date style, but it wasn't very big. I'd suggest you knock up a 'bread n' butter' construction hull and then sand/carve it into the shape you want, that would be the easiest way. Or you could use a piece of plastic down pipe and make up wooden ends for it? There is a plan for a Russian Charlie class sub available which is based on a plastic pipe.

Hope that helps?


Rich
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Deep Diver on May 06, 2010, 08:51:36 PM
Hi Simon
Can you give us an idea as to were you are? as I just may have a copy of the plan at home that U33 is on about.
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Subculture on May 06, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
Plastics and/or metal are the better materials for construction of a model submarine.

Wood does work, but you will have to be rigourous with waterproofing to ensure your boat has a long life. Even then you may well find that water gets in eventually.
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: admiral donuts on May 06, 2010, 09:31:30 PM
Suggest you try submarines before building or buying one,I know most sundodgers will let you have a supervised go with one
of their models and everyone of them will help you with tricks and tips to save you time and money
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: rouge2 on May 07, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
Hi All,

Thank's for your warm elcome and all your responses they are all really helpfull.

Although my attention is focused on building the unseen for the moment my rather limited mind has been trying to figure out how i would go about building a cylindrical hull and its really the end caps that i couldnt get my head around. I had given some thought to a bread and butter design but ive never made a hull this way before. The plastic down pipe idea i had never even thought of and seems like a really simple but clever idea!

Hi Simon
Can you give us an idea as to were you are? as I just may have a copy of the plan at home that U33 is on about.


I'm in Nottingham, uk. thinking about it it would be a good idea to update my profile so you all know where i live!

I'd be really interested to see a copy of those plans deep diver if you were able to send me a copy or something, id be more than willing to cover your expenses.

Thank's again all!



Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Patrick Henry on May 07, 2010, 02:51:48 PM
Here's the link to the Russian 'Charlie' class boat, the one based around plastic downpipe.

http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16992/charlie-class-sub-mm1210 (http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16992/charlie-class-sub-mm1210)

You can either make the bow and stern sections from fibreglass, or balsa block shaped and covered with epoxy or resin, or dope and tissue in Glynn Guest fashion, or even the ends from those 2 litre plastic lemonade bottles. Ultimate recycling!!

Rich
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Deep Diver on May 07, 2010, 04:30:42 PM
Hi
That O.K can only do it in A4 size, just P/M me with you address.
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: rouge2 on May 07, 2010, 05:43:14 PM
Here's the link to the Russian 'Charlie' class boat, the one based around plastic downpipe.

http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16992/charlie-class-sub-mm1210 (http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16992/charlie-class-sub-mm1210)

You can either make the bow and stern sections from fibreglass, or balsa block shaped and covered with epoxy or resin, or dope and tissue in Glynn Guest fashion, or even the ends from those 2 litre plastic lemonade bottles. Ultimate recycling!!

Rich

Hi rich thank's for the link. do you happen to know if that plan comes with any kind of instructions/guide?

Just sent you a pm deep diver but there may have been an error sending it. just let me know if you didnt get it.

Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Patrick Henry on May 07, 2010, 07:08:11 PM
Hi rich thank's for the link. do you happen to know if that plan comes with any kind of instructions/guide?

Just sent you a pm deep diver but there may have been an error sending it. just let me know if you didnt get it.



I don't think so, as far as I can remember it's just a basic drawing, but don't take that as gospel. I have some photos of a completed model Charlie class, I'll dig them out and email them to you if that's any help? It's quite an easy hull to build from memory, the internals can be just a standard cylinder, depending on the access you prefer.


Rich
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: rouge2 on May 09, 2010, 10:02:43 PM
Seeing some photos of the charlie class would be of great help Rich, cheers!

Going back to the HMS unseen, with this being a mostly ply construction i was planning on sealing the hull using a few coats of Ronseal yacht varnish both internaly and externaly then painting over the varnish to finish off. Should this be sufficiently waterproof?

Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Patrick Henry on May 09, 2010, 10:29:25 PM
You can never waterproof wood enough for a submarine, if I were you I'd cover it inside and out with a coat of resin...or build it from plastic sheet, no waterproofing required then.

Glynn Guest always swears by dope and tissue to waterproof his boats, so there's another alternative method for you, but I think a lot of people will tell you that the more waterproofing you can apply, the better the hull will be. Just make sure to check it every time you sail it for water ingress.

Give me a couple of days and I'll dig you out some Charlie class pics.


Rich
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: sheerline on May 10, 2010, 09:15:57 PM
I concurr with Rich, several coats of cellulose dope and tissue and you should be able to seal the wood fairly effectively. When this is backed up by an enamel paint you should be set fair. Wood is certainly not the first choice of the submariner but if you are prepared to put in the hours and make a thoroughly good job of it you may well be rewarded for your efforts with a good hull.
The problems truly  arise when you come to fitting it out, you need to drill holes in it to fit planes and attaching parts as well as slots and holes so you need to go round yet again with the dope as you will be perforating your nicely sealed hull... hmmmm {:-{
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: Davy1 on May 18, 2010, 04:57:11 PM
I am very interested to see that you are interested in the Charlie class submarine using PVC pipe and glassfibre end caps. The concept is quite "long in the tooth" but would be a very good way to go it you want to get easily (and cheaply) into model submarines.
I built the original design in the 1970's and the present incarnation is still my model of choice for just sailing a submarine. You will see me (and it) at the Alfold show in June.
The present variant uses a cylindrical O ring seal around the stern section. If you would like photos of it and the full size one + an article I wrote for the Association of Model Submariners, please pm me.
(A cylindrical hull for the Charlie is never going to be really scale btw. The hull shape shown at the Royal Navy Submarine Museum for the Charlie is more bulbous. But who really cares it's fun and cheap!)
David
Title: Re: Introduction and quick question from a noobie
Post by: hollowhornbear on May 18, 2010, 05:09:34 PM
here is a video of a modded Undine, made to look like a type VII all wood and about 4 years old still in use today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDTc5boyZ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDTc5boyZ0)