Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => DC Motors (Brushed) and Speed Controllers => Topic started by: Ivanhoe on May 18, 2010, 11:22:22 pm
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Does anyone know if you can still obtain "Bob's board" speed controllers, or anything similar? I'd also be interested to know if anyone knows of a DIY design for these"Wiper" type mechanical controllers?
Thanks in advance for any info.
Wilf
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Scoonies tend to do them :-))
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Scoonies tend to do them :-))
Thanks, unfortunately Scoonies don't list them any more, as far as I can see from their catalogue.
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Try Westbourne Models or Cornwall Models. Pete
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Or the Science Museum? %)
FLJ
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Thanks, unfortunately Scoonies don't list them any more, as far as I can see from their catalogue.
You will probably need to phone or email them, they were selling them at the Boat convention last year.
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I purchased one from Scoonies at Warrington last year. I'd give them a ring.
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MFA/COMO DRILLS still show them on their magazine advertisements.
Part of a motor power pack, not a separate item.
However the Ad seems to have been running unchanged for quite a few years!
www.modelflightaccessories.com (http://www.modelflightaccessories.com)
Tel 01304 614696
Good luck
Mike
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Fratton Model Centre (Portsmouth) still have them on the shelf.
Bob
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Cornwall Model Boats.
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/msc.html
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The examples given don't appear to be the original item as shown here
under items 'DD': - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22771.0 that I sold recently.
I believe the classic Bob's Boards are no longer made although, as noted above, there are other resistance controllers available.
Barry M
PS If you want to know who I sold them to in order to make the new owner an offer he can't refuse, send me a PM.
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they used to use them in RC cars. i dont know if they have gone ESC now but tamiya or kyosho are two brands that are well known. maybe worth looking at their web sites
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BarryM,
The boards in Frattons ARE the original ones.
Bob
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Bob,
Thanks for info. Their website appears to be down at the moment.
Barry M
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I'd also be interested to know if anyone knows of a DIY design for these"Wiper" type mechanical controllers?
I did one years ago using stripboard, home-made brass wire wipers to fit the double ended servo horn, a "Choc-bloc" connector and lengths of element from a dead electric fire. While the elements were well tuned to match the motor performance, it was bulky and generated plenty of warmth inside its compartment with the additional "benefit" of lumpy control.
As soon as ESCs became available at a sensible price, I converted and never regretted it.
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Barry,
The phone number is: 02392827117.
Bob
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Some of us can't afford an ESC in every boat, especially if we have high Amperage motors.
Vintagent
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Some of us can't afford an ESC in every boat, especially if we have high Amperage motors.
Vintagent
True (been there), but ESCs are a great deal easier to swap around than a servo with a resistance mat arrangement hanging off it. Any ESC that will handle a lot will handle a little just as well, unlike resistance controllers which need to be well matched.
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Thanks to everyone who offered (constructive) advice, I have some ideas now to follow up, trying to save the pennies you see!
Wilf
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Wilf,
Its easier and cheaper to make up 1 board with receiver and ESC to swop around your models.
Bob
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Some of us can't afford an ESC in every boat, especially if we have high Amperage motors.
Vintagent
What sort of high "Amperage" are we talking about?
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It seems that anything over about 20 Amps is suddenly expensive. Of course I only know what I've seen in adverts as we don't have a proper model shop over here.
But paying as much for an element of control as a whole set of control gear seems a bit odd to me.
Regards,
Vintagent
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Over 20A continuous and you need multiple MOSFETs, and they're the expensive parts. The four in a P98 cost us nearly £8, and we have to buy in quantities of 400 at a time to get down to that price.
It's not the ESCs which are expensive; it's the radio which has suddenly become stupidly cheap. Three years ago Giant Cod was probably a budget brand of fish-fingers and a 6 channel radio was the thick end of £150. Now it's less than a third of that.
Despite all of this, you still only get what you pay for...................
FLJ
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Without knowing the true %'s........world wide..... {-) for every one model boater there are probably 20 thousand aero moddlers & 12 thousand car or buggie moddlers :o
So here I see...... say ~~~~~~+ 30 thousand people against a 1/2 a dozen boaties >>:-(..... & this is where the economies of production favour the mass user market & hence very low costing electronics components ........R/C sets from China included O0 ....
Same as the domestic computing industry.......what computers are not 40% less expensive today than in real terms 12 months ago? & where are they all manufactured?.............Derek %)
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This will not, of course, last for ever. As the Chinese get richer, they will want more and indeed expect more and will be forced to up their prices and we will all have to pay because we will have no home industry to turn back to. Japanese stuff is no longer the price of a bowl of rice as they used to say. It's as dear as our stuff was, consequently the Japanese are using China for production, but for how long before it too becomes expensive. Then where? India? Brazil? Mexico?
So get your cheap stuff while you can, if you must. It's all false, but it's available for now.
I'll stick to my old English stuff. At least it's repairable.
And pretty!
And I must say, it wouldn't bother me too much if I had to do without R/C, apart from the fact a walk round pond is not close by, but
I could get an inflatable for the price of an ESC and some exercise propelling it along the river!
FLJ, I don't know what a Mossfet is and I have no idea what any of the motors available to me draw in amps or even how to test them.
So I'm never going to lay out a lot of money on yet more electronics to control them.
Regards,
Vintagent
Regards,
Vintagent
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I could get an inflatable for the price of an ESC and some exercise propelling it along the river!
But look at the label.....guess where it was made. {:-{
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I'll stick to my old English stuff. At least it's repairable.
And pretty!
Regards,
Vintagent
Regards,
Vintagent
What English stuff would this be then ?
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will look in the club shop I think I have an old unopened one in there!
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What English stuff would this be then ?
Something like my two Fleet 7-Ch Tx, Rx, switchers, servers and ESC setups? Nothing less than 15 years old and still going strong.
Barry M
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I'll stick to my old English stuff.
OK next you will be telling us Newcastle on Tyne is in the North , and pig,s fly <*<
Timo2
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Last time I looked Newcastle upon Tyne is in the north of England.
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Dont think you've got the hang of this Marc ok2
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I could get an inflatable for the price of an ESC and some exercise propelling it along the river!
FLJ, I don't know what a Mossfet is and I have no idea what any of the motors available to me draw in amps or even how to test them.
So I'm never going to lay out a lot of money on yet more electronics to control them.
I'm not entirely surprised at your reply. If you want to improve your knowledge of the subject then might I suggest having a look here?
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/ESCs.pdf (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/ESCs.pdf)
If you don't know what current your motors draw or how to measure it then you have two chances of getting the right Bob's Board; they're called Fat and No.
I'll cheerfully swap you one of our (British-made) ESCs for a new inflatable.
FLJ
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) :-))
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FLJ, blimey, even I could understand the basics of that explanation. thanks for that.
I never thought I'd see that phrase again...Mark/Space. That takes me back to early R/C books and the ancient RCM&E magazines I have since No 1, not that I could ever understand much of it.
Being british made also explains why they're apparently expensive, but I imagine very high quality. I would certainly consider one of the cheaper end if, as I hope, my old redundant minidrill motors aren't too high draw (a little one and a typical "buggy" size motors)
Would your ESCs work on my Taycol Supermarine motor, now I have a circuit for wiring it to go backwards?
DickyD, I have some DigiMac and a Mini-hex outfit (provided my son can find it!)
Barry M, I'd love to find a Fleet or a Launch Link set or best of all a Skyleader!
Perhaps my attitude to the hobby doesn't sit well with all you guys who take it so very seriously it seems.
But that's fine. If you love all the tech. stuff, good for you for even understanding it.
I don't so I just want to use the stuff I always did. I used to have a Bob's board in a little speedboat and it seemed to work fine. my brother now has it in Australia. he first bought it when he was a teenager, had hours and hours of fun with it on any bit of water bigger than a puddle and it still works on a buggy type motor (550?)
He saved up and bought his own Acoms gear, which also still works.
I am curious about all the new stuff, but I can't help that curiosity morphing into wondering whether there isn't a touch of one-upmanship about it all.
That's what makes me sceptical to some extent.
I see no reason for some people to get a bit aerated about it though. It is only playing with toy boats after all when we get right down to it.
Having said that I'd probably defend my Rivas, Miss America X and Miss Britain III as scale models if someone called them toys, but you know what I mean ok2
I've come back to boats as a laugh using my old, old stuff. For me, that's the fun part of it.
My sailing models ..well that's another story when I get cracking with them.
Regards,
Vintagent
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RCM&E magazines , does that mean you are a model flier ?
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A lot of the old stuff certainly still works and is OK if you don't mind the increased chances of interference on 27mhz. I still use it myself. But generally, if you are in the market you might as well buy the latest gear which has a lot of advantages. There is no particular merit as such in using vintage gear (except to save money!). Bobs Boards were OK in their day, but as FLJ says, you did need to match them to your motors otherwise you tended to get a miniature hotplate and truncated working life! Back in the 1970s a Futaba electronic speed controller would have cost you £70 or so which would equate to several hundred pounds in today's money. These days they probably cost around a third of your weekly excursion to Tesco.
Old stuff isn't inherently better, just nostalgic maybe.
Colin
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Neither is modern stuff, Colin.
If I'd seen the older stuff fail in some way, I probably would use modern stuff, though my objection to cheap and cheerful Eastern would remain, but it never has and it always worked well then. Maybe my brother was sold to well by his shop in Margate, but his stuff all worked, gave good run times and still does. Why change it?
I don't shop in Tescos either, but I'm spoiled for village shops and roadside stalls here, being SO rural. And I think our weekly bill would be more than covered by a 20Amp ESC. So now, perhaps you can see why I don't just splash the cash around.
You said it when you said (except to save money)
Back in the 70s I wouldn't have even heard of an ESC, but I do recall that which came in a Mardave carpet racer worked well and came with the car, motor, batteries and charger for about £35 or so all in. Same price as the Acoms radio gear recommended for them. So the ESC in that couldn't have been so expensive and I believe Mardave were all British made. In fact I think my son used all the car bits to power a boat!
Regards,
Vintagent
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Back in the 70s I wouldn't have even heard of an ESC, but I do recall that which came in a Mardave carpet racer worked well and came with the car, motor, batteries and charger for about £35 or so all in. Same price as the Acoms radio gear recommended for them. So the ESC in that couldn't have been so expensive and I believe Mardave were all British made. In fact I think my son used all the car bits to power a boat!
Regards,
Vintagent
Mardave were and still are British made.
http://mardaveonline.co.uk/v12setup.htm
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If you have vintage gear that works, there is little point in replacing it. On the other hand, looking to buy vintage technology when modern gear is available at lower cost is not a good idea. I spent enough of my working life polishing bits of brass and nickel silver to keep switching systems working to know beyond any doubt that solid state gear with no moving parts and a a lower price is BETTER.
My preference is to take my boat to the lake and play at being the master of my boat, rather than be its mechanic.
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Would your ESCs work on my Taycol Supermarine motor, now I have a circuit for wiring it to go backwards?
Nah - far too expensive, matey. You want a good old-fashioned rheostat. You could probably make one from an old electric fire element and use an ACOMS servo to move a wiper contact across it; old clocks are a good cheap source of metal for this sort of contact. For reversing the current then why not break into a traffic light control box and nick a circuit-breaker switch? These are quite easily adaptable to Double Pole Changeover mode - and there won't be many donkey carts held up by the faulty lights (you do have electricity and telephones around there, don't you?). Finally why not encase the whole thing in an old Oxo tin? I'm sure there's one in your junk cupboard. Slap on a bit of proper lead-based housepaint to hide the Oxo logo and the job's a good 'un. Total cost should be less than a stone of spuds.
FLJ
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Excellent Dave, bloody marvellous. (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/master-1.gif)
Off to play with my very expensive toy boats now.
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Dave,
why on earth would I want to cover up the fine OXO logo with lead or any other paint?
Although I could do exactly that as I have 5 litres of red lead paint which I use on the iron knees of my full size 1937 historic narrowboat.
Electricity reached us recently and what a boon it sometimes turns out to be, although it is quite useless for digital radio and television which steadfastly refuses to work with any reliability, so I simply listen to the Home Service on my accumulator wireless, the trip to the garage to recharge being always accompanied by a cuppa char, a wad and a nice chat with the blacksmith, while the Lister Autostart does its work.
A short wave radio ham in the North has given me a perfectly good circuit diagram of some whirring electrickery to switch and control my old Taycol, so I'll have no need of the traffic lights, which I find always so very tedious to deconstruct. I've invariably found that street lights are more accessible, though only for power supplies. A redundant GPO Telephones sub station was a useful source of switchgear when I made a lap counter for my Scalextric, so may prove equally suitable for the Taycol.
Finally, I've checked with my neighbour who does that pony trotting thing and his best mare is apparently unmoved by any amount of testing of my motors, so your kind concern has been answered in that regard.
I should like to thank you for your ever selfless help and advice and look forward to doing business with you when I next need a soft valve or two for the REP.
Oh, BTW, since I have a car which uses a condenser, may I ask if it is possible to test them in any way, other than by installing a new one every time? I thought you might remember them and have an oscilloscope handy for the job, perhaps.
Regards,
Vintagent
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I think I should apologise profusely to Ivanhoe for the hijacking of his thread, albeit in fun, (I hope).
Perhaps Dave and I should let him get back to his thread.
Regards,
Vintagent
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8)
FLJ
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Oh, BTW, since I have a car which uses a condenser, may I ask if it is possible to test them in any way, other than by installing a new one every time?
Sadly, only with a resistance meter, of which you may have found one when performing your recycling on the telephone substation.
Get the condenser on its own (no witnesses, no other components to confuse the readings), switch the meter to the highest resistance range, connect the condenser while watching the needle. The needle should kick and return to infinity. Reverse the connection, it will kick again. Condensers in cars tend to be a high enough value to allow this. If the needle starts or finishes anywhere except infinity, the condenser is probably broken.
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Malcolm, thanks for that. By resistance meter, do you mean the ohms dial on a multimeter?
Condensers have such a poor reputation for quality these days as do coils, distributor caps and even rotor arms. Those of us with "classic" cars have to keep a box of new spares from which to choose.
My son used to work for a Maserati racer restorer and they always took at least 6 condensers per car when they went testing or racing.
Even a million pound car still uses an ordinary Commercial Ignition condenser!!
Thanks again,
Vintagent
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do you mean the ohms dial on a multimeter?
Yes. The higher the "ohms per volt" figure the better, as it then gives a more long lasting kick, so you get a better chance of seeing it. This would be most post-1965 meters, when 10,000 OpV started being regarded as low. Its one area where digital meters are not a lot of help, just giving what looks like a random collection of numbers, unless its one of those real flash ones that have an analogue display as well.
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Thanks again, Malcolm.
I'll pass the info on to my son, too as he runs a classic car too.
Regards,
Vintagent