Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: martno1fan on June 13, 2010, 01:19:56 PM

Title: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 13, 2010, 01:19:56 PM
I started building a new plug for the Apache deck moulding to manufacture the new Navaho design as ive had lots of interest in this design.Heres the new plug after waxing ready to start the new mould.This will enable me to offer two different decks ,the orriginal and the Navaho  ok2.
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: Bill D203 on June 13, 2010, 01:55:39 PM
Looking GOOD Martin. :-))
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 13, 2010, 02:48:53 PM
Cheers Bill,scoop will be getting the first one from this mould.Ill post a few pics as i go ,i wont bore people with all the details on how its done but there should be something happening along those lines soon but my lips are sealed for now  ;).
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: bulldog1966 on June 13, 2010, 07:06:47 PM
looking great mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: omra85 on June 13, 2010, 08:25:54 PM
Hi Mart - very nice!  I hear you're turning them out by the .... many  ;)
Nice timing, what with the lack of service from certain (ex) suppliers!
Be nice to see some on the circuit.
Danny
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 13, 2010, 09:24:16 PM
Hi Mart - very nice!  I hear you're turning them out by the .... many  ;)
Nice timing, what with the lack of service from certain (ex) suppliers!
Be nice to see some on the circuit.
Danny



Hi Danny yea been busy the past few weeks but still early days,but im trying to keep up with demand lol.I think Marks running his at the next meeting so you will see it there hopefully .I think there might be a few more joining his soon also  ok2.Heres one a local guy had a friend make some decals for,not bad for hand cut decals  ok2.
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 13, 2010, 09:26:13 PM
looking great mart

Thanks mate
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 15, 2010, 06:04:20 PM
Managed to get a few layers of glass on the plug,just needs framework adding for the stand then ill pop it off the board and see what we have.
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 24, 2010, 11:58:43 AM
Few more pics of the mould on the plug,ive since popped it off attached a stand and its now waxed and allready has 1 layer of gelcoat in it for the first part .Will post pics of the mould and the first new part in a day or so.
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on June 25, 2010, 11:31:03 AM
Heres a few pics of the mould and the new deck,both came out great im very pleased with the results.
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on December 30, 2010, 06:15:02 PM
any more pics of this great build.

The deck looks fantastic, but can we see it against the older type of deck for comparison ?



phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on December 31, 2010, 10:42:16 AM
Check my other thread mate plenty of pics to compair the two theres also plenty of videos of them running.
Mart
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23546.0

ps if you like p1 style boats heres the new plug for my Arrow which will use a lower apache hull with the new top,massive long hatch too to allow use of inlines if you want should be FASSSSSSSSSSSSSSST  ok2,first boat will be done early Feb.


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=26250.0
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on December 31, 2010, 12:03:01 PM
so basically the decks are just different in that one has 3 ribs down the centre and the other has a single rib ?

I would think the 3 rib i stronger ? giving the egg carton effect.

I see you also make the hulls from your own moulds.

Did you actually make a plug from another boat, or completely make the plug from scratch ?

yours do look very well made i must admit.
and very nice gel coat finnish on them too.


phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: fast eric on January 01, 2011, 08:52:23 PM
martin remove and delete my pic of my house and my work as i have told you before you have no right to use it again and any more pic you have of mine you can delete them off your computer to plus i have repoted you to the forum for using pic that are not yours to use and gaz never said anything to you about using them
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 01, 2011, 09:33:46 PM
When i posted the pics of Garry's boat originally on the other thread i wasn't aware they weren't his pics,i cant delete anything off here now but im sure Martin will as he sent me a link to your post and i asked him to do so.Ill get some pics off Gaz to replace them and make sure he took them this time  %).I no longer have these pics .
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on January 01, 2011, 10:44:34 PM
who makes the boats ?
fast eric or martno1fan ?



phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 01, 2011, 10:57:04 PM
I make the boats m8 the pics he refered to are of a customers boat that he Eric put some vinyl on and i posted a few pics of it as i thought they belonged to the owner of the boat Gaz.
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: fast eric on January 02, 2011, 05:44:55 AM
yea right i dont want to see any more
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on January 02, 2011, 11:53:15 AM
I cant see a problem then.
If someones already posted pics on a public place like the internet, and there is no copywrite stamp on them
anyone can copy and post them in refference to something other than the stickers themself.

Are these stickers  of such high security and importance that they are not to be shown ?
if so why were they ever taken and distributed in the first place. ?
Is the boat in question never going to be seen in public ? will it be kept secretly away from prying eyes etc.

And never mind who took the pics, what does the owner of the boat think, as its his boat and his stickers now.

There only pictures of toy boats, no need for people to be angry with each other over them.

Or are the stickers of bad quality or wrong type of graphics and eric dont want people to see they aint any good ?
If the stickers are good, then why dont the maker of them like the idea of free publicity and promotion ?

come on fella's its a new year  ...kiss and make up


phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 02, 2011, 04:38:27 PM
Dont waste your breath Phil.
Im happy keeping doing what i do which is building great boats and the haters can kiss my  ;D.
Mart

Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on January 02, 2011, 04:49:27 PM
What is roughly the height from waterline to top of the hatch on the apache's

and what is the deadrise angle of these boats at the transom ?



phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: scoop on January 02, 2011, 06:11:10 PM
I cant see a problem then.
If someones already posted pics on a public place like the internet, and there is no copywrite stamp on them
anyone can copy and post them in refference to something other than the stickers themself.

Are these stickers  of such high security and importance that they are not to be shown ?
if so why were they ever taken and distributed in the first place. ?
Is the boat in question never going to be seen in public ? will it be kept secretly away from prying eyes etc.

And never mind who took the pics, what does the owner of the boat think, as its his boat and his stickers now.

There only pictures of toy boats, no need for people to be angry with each other over them.

Or are the stickers of bad quality or wrong type of graphics and eric dont want people to see they aint any good ?
If the stickers are good, then why dont the maker of them like the idea of free publicity and promotion ?

come on fella's its a new year  ...kiss and make up


phill
Oooooh cardinal sin there Phill, calling them toy boats !  ;) All anyone needs to know is Martin makes fabulous hulls, nice sharp running edges, solidly built, run like they are on rails, a good price and he has taken the hard work out of the build by glassing in the stringers and transom plate. I'm chuffed to bits with my Navaho hull  O0 :-))

Regards
Scoop
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on January 02, 2011, 06:18:29 PM
Ok so they aint toys
I had to write that as thats what the wife calls them when shes got the hump with me cluttering up the front room ha ha

And thos eboats do look very very good indeed, everyone who has one of his boats seems to be very very pleased with them.
Plus i have heard there is a few racers doing ok with them as well. (proof of good workmanship )

I have not seen any of martins hulls in the flesh so to speak, but i am told by some that they are better than expected.

Pics of the stages of his building them shows a very professional attack on making good honest boats that are built to last.

Anyone can build a boat, but not anyone can build a GOOD BOAT.


phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 02, 2011, 07:39:55 PM
What is roughly the height from waterline to top of the hatch on the apache's

and what is the deadrise angle of these boats at the transom ?



phill

Hi Phil ill get the measurement to you tomorrow for the height from chine to top of hatch ,as for the deadrise its arround 22 degrees
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 02, 2011, 07:59:51 PM
Thanks for the kind words you guys,i try to make nice hulls at good prices and ive never missed a delivery date nor had any complaints from a customer ever.I will build the hulls to fulfill the customers wishes too,im currently building one for running in the sea in the Greek islands and through long chats with him over the phone we decided that the whole hull would be built using glass cloth and carbon twill.I do what i can to give people what they want and have a few new hulls on the way this year,when i start work on my 70" hull ill post a complete build thread from start to finish.
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on January 02, 2011, 09:16:59 PM
woooo hoooo  A 70 inch hull, now thats going to be nice watching it get built.


phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: tiggy_cat on January 05, 2011, 03:16:05 PM
Hi Mart,

A while ago , in a moment of late night Ebay madness, I bought an old Prestwich Models 72" Cigarette. Just the hull and deck joined.  When it arrived, couldn't believe just how bulky a hull of this length turns out to be. You could live in the thing!!

  Presuming that your hull will be about the same overall size, what do you see as a power plant for getting the beast up and motoring ?.  I presume a large petrol rather than anything else



Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 05, 2011, 04:47:38 PM
Yea the inline from rcmk would be my choice if money allows failing that then def the 28.5 cc zenoah which should push it pretty well.That motor pushes the smaller hull to 56 +mph so far so mid 40s would be pretty easy which would be ideal i think.I think the inline would be faster obviously,hopefully ill be able to build one later in the year.Of course side by side twins would also work ,might need to stagger them a tad to make things easier to fit.Not sure of the dimensions of the cig you talk about width height etc mine will be 16" wide and only 9" high at deepest point of the hull so quite streamlined,ill also probs make a longer Arrow style deck for it and see how that looks  ok2.
What did you power your cig with? a friend of mine had one with a single zen and it seemed to go ok.
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: tiggy_cat on January 05, 2011, 07:27:27 PM
Hi Martin,

  Haven't got as far as refitting it yet. It just sits in the garage at present ( a large bit of the garage, actually) while I wonder why the hell I bought it!  It is quite a way down the list of build or rebuild projects at present, so who knows what might go in it , if anything.

  It is one of Dave Palmer from OMRA's old boats and while it needs a bit of work, it is in reasonable shape. It think it could look good, but my missus reckons that it would look better sitting on the local tip!!

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on January 05, 2011, 10:22:45 PM
These big hulls make great scale builds its amazing how much you can make them look like the real thing but then it starts costing you real money its scarey lol.A guy in Italy who has one of my 58s is actually building a scale version of the AMG Cigarette hull,his friend owns the real thing and hes planning to get as near as he can to the real thing.It will have inline rcmk for power a gearbox for counter rotating stearable rcmk drives which hes still waiting for,should be a sweet boat when done.I sent him a spare hatch so he could modify it to look like the real one too and he did a great job on it i think.
Mart
http://www.cigaretteracing.com/
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on February 13, 2011, 07:26:37 PM
why is everyoenspending an absolutefortune on the inline twins ?
why not just get a nice 50 to 60 cc single ?

Look at some of the mini moto tuned engines, they can be getting 15 to 20hp out of those little engines.
The engines are far cheaper to buy, and much cheaper on parts.
Ok so you need to get watercooled head, but apart from that you get a good strong clutch etc.

I see so many people bragging about 8 to 9 hp, yet the mini moto or 50cc motor crosser bike engines will
produce much more power.

just a thought



phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on February 13, 2011, 11:07:26 PM
Mini moto engines arent reliable unless you go for a really good one like a polini in which case your talking big money.Also you have to consider power to weight ratio,ive NEVER seen any pocket bike powered boat that will keep up with a propper marine type engine.These new rcmk twins are really small and compact and very light also and cost only 398 which is  not much more than what a good modded single 260 costs so hardly a fortune,probs half the weight of even a 40 cc pocket bike engine also.
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on February 14, 2011, 01:37:51 AM
For that price you could just as easy by a good 90 nitro that will beat it every time.

it seems that everyone thinks high revs equals high speed !!!! whats wrong with getting some decent high pitch props or
gearboxes and use cheaper more reliable engines to power the boats.


I think far too many people are paying far too much for the petrol engines.
They realy are only small industrial motors after all.

The zenoahs, and all the other copy ones are just strimmer engines stripped down and re timmed.

when you start talking about inline twin zens and the like, the money is crazy.

phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on February 14, 2011, 08:20:34 AM
Inline zens are a waste of time the couplers allways seem to fail,early days but i think the S 520 twin will def be the one to go for as regards a twin it seems like a performer,power to weight ratio is pretty awesome.That said a decent 29-31 cc zen is a great way to power most boats one of my Apaches clocked 59.5 mph yesterday with a 31 cc zen so i dont think ill be using a twin in one,a bigger hull of 70" id def try one.
Why dont you have a go at what your talking about and show us what speeds you can get with a cheap engine and gearbox Phill ?.
No ones disagreeing about the .90 nitro but each to his own,i hate nitro and wont touch them.Petrol all the way when it comes to engines for me.
The reason Adriano is using the inline twin in his boat is because he wanted to run twin drives so needed the power but couldnt go with Mathe or Blatta engines due to the size as they wont fit under the hatch,these RCMK motors are small and compact and like i say a very good price at under 400.
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: dadandlad on February 14, 2011, 05:28:18 PM
Looks like a really nice set up and just love the look of those twins  :-))
If i hadn't started to build Miss Britain 3 i would have been really tempted with one of these
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on February 14, 2011, 06:50:28 PM
Hi mate hes just had word that his drives from RCMK are ready for shipping,its taken them months to get them for him.Hes the first customer to actually get them,they look awesome.Heres his build thread hopefully he will restart it in a  week or two once he gets the drives.Heres a pic of one they sent him.
Mart
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10111137/tm.htm
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: Patternmaker on February 14, 2011, 07:02:28 PM
Like Mart I am also a petrol head, I have raced against CMB 90s with petrol boats with surfice drives in offshore,
multi and endurance and won a lot more races than nitro boats. I did have a highly tuned CMB 90 with twin glow plugs in a Omega 90, I spent more money on glow plugs than fuel, if I managed to get more than 30
minutes running without changing glowplugs I was a bonus.

Keep up the good work Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: dadandlad on February 14, 2011, 09:19:10 PM
Thats one hell of a build list,going to be a real classy boat :-))
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on February 14, 2011, 10:07:55 PM
Hi Mick,
hope your well mate  ;)
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: martno1fan on February 14, 2011, 10:13:00 PM
Thats one hell of a build list,going to be a real classy boat :-))
Yea it sure is,actually its a replica of his friends real one.His friend races the amg cig in the link i believe and hes building the Apache to look as near to it as possible.
He actually remodeled my hatch himself to look like the real one and did a really nice job on it.I do have plans to make a longer version of my hull to make it into a cig and am considering the steps also but it will be a long term project like so many others i have in mind  %).
Mart
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on February 22, 2011, 09:14:25 PM
I had cheap petrol engines running in model boats a long time ago.
But nitro leaves them standing.

what i cant make out is why people are buy the expensive engines instead of the cheaper ones and doing simple conversion.

for under 150 you can get a real good strong engine once you take the strimmers apart.

ive got proof sitting right her ein front of me, 41cc zenoah  g4k,used in lots of different strimmers,loads of grunt and torque
definitely lighter than a twin set up.

But go to model shop for same engine and its a fortune, all the same internals though.

the same with many of todays so called race boat engines, most are just strimmer and blower engines with a few bits taken off.

Many years ago black and decker made a small chainsaw, it was blue and very similar to the
green 17cc strimmer also by black and decker.
But the blue one was infact a kawasaki  22cc engine that was said in many magazines a specialy made model car engine.
No it wasnt i had one, and my friend had one from a model shop,absolutely identical in every way except the clutch.
But the model shop one was twice the price of a complete strimmer.

Remember the fox f7 22cc petrol model engine ? early petrol strimmer that was as well.

Zenoah, one of the largest producers of strimmer and chainsaw engines in the world.





phill
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: bulldog1966 on February 25, 2011, 01:54:58 PM
 :}yea i got kawasaki 22 cc in my shead phill goes well in the sea
Title: Re: Building a new plug and mould for Navaho hull
Post by: phillnjack on March 02, 2011, 02:19:50 PM
The kwaka 22cc was a very good little engine, dont rev its nuts off but keeps on going with decent torque.
And you can pick these up very cheap in strimmers and blowers.

There used to be perkasa running around with a 22cc kawasaki running into a gearbox that came out with 3 propshafts.
The old perkasa could stay with the merco 10cc powered multi's on the straights.
Thats not bad for a boat like the perkasa and with a engine not even designed for racing or infact boats.
Kawasaki's were known for good reliability and that counts,especialy at a race meeting or even on a good fun day out.


phill