Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam R&D: => Topic started by: ooyah/2 on June 21, 2010, 05:54:10 pm

Title: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 21, 2010, 05:54:10 pm
Hi,
Having just signed up I discover that there has been some members seeking info on my Flash steamer that was featured in MODEL BOATS in 2005.
Although the boat is radio controlled it is nothing like the control that "flashtwo" has on his boat mine only has steering and stop.
Since writing the article for Model Boats a new engine and coil has been made,
The old set up had 22ft of 316 x .25" o.d. stainless steel tubing with 2 burners and the engine was 3/4" bore x 3/4" stroke.
The new set up has 30ft of .25" o.d. tubing with 3 burners and the engine is 1.125" bore x 3/4" stroke.
Both of the engines are Uniflow Poppet Valve engines all copied with his permission and help from R. Kirtley of the 120 mph Hydro.
The boat at present is now doing about 40 mph.
Copies of the Model boat article are available if any one is interested send me your e-mail address and I will forward it to you.

Pictures of OOYAH can be seen on my club web site  (www.glasgowrichmondmbc.co.uk ) and I can post some pics of the engine build if required.
My name is George Thomson ( retired design engineer )
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: benjaml1 on June 21, 2010, 07:12:32 pm
Thank you for sharing....  :-))
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: kiwimodeller on June 22, 2010, 11:55:41 am
One day George I will get brave enough to try something similar. The article was very interesting. I have several steam boats and still some spare engines but the thing that has put me off so far is the seeming difficulty of setting up and controlling the water pump and also the need to have a parrafin or petrol blowlamp scares me. I like the controllability of Flastwo's setup but do not have the computer nouse to duplicate it. I had ideas of a Butane/Propane burner and perhaps an electric waterpump controlled by a speedcontroller but apparently neither will perform well enough even for a scale speed set up. Any comments you could offer will be most welcome. Regards, Ian.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 23, 2010, 11:39:30 am
Argh, watch this space Ian, I am at present having a go on my new radio flash steamer at using a geared electric motor to drive (via a scotch crank)  a water pump (with a ESC), the burner burner will be petrol (but via pressure as per my other plants) as the idea is to get the water set up right first with a known constant heat source, then add a fuel pump, again via a geared electric motor, and have control over that as well. I'm not aiming for Bobs speed, but I should be able to get 40mph + from the set up. I'm also using a double acting slide valve engine (heres one I built earlier) and based on the performance I get on my straight runner (with boiler of course) I should (a very big should) get it to go.
Good to see you are still working on your plant George ( I use the flash coil I got from you as a demo in my lectures until I get around to putting it in a a boat  :-)))

Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 23, 2010, 11:45:28 am
Hi Phil.

How about some pics of the engine and what type of hull do you propose to use?
Size of coil and what size jet in burner?
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 23, 2010, 07:27:48 pm
Hi Ian,
Don't be put of experimenting with Flash Steam if that is the road you wish to go down.  You can also go the way of FLASHTWO and make a coil generator that doesn't produce massive amounts of pressure and very high temperatures, although he calls it Flash Steam he is only producing small amounts of low pressure steam, Flash Steam is the point at which water turns instantly to high pressure steam so you have to consider Stainless Steel for a coil, I use 316 stainless x.25" o/d other wise if you have too much heat it's easy to blow a copper coil, I know as I have done it.
A must for anybody contemplating high pressure steam is a book EXPERIMENTAL FLASH STEAM X BENSON AND RAYMAN, in this book Chapt 7 page 96 is a small bit about a moderate performance plant using a slide valve engine and the whole plant is controlled by a screw  down ball valve on the water feed to the pump which was very effective.
My engine is a Uniflow Poppet valve engine of 1.125" bore x 3/4" stroke with 30 ft of 316 Stainless tube x .25" o/d with 3- burners each with .025 " dia jets using 4/1 paraffin to petrol
and is a copy of R Kirtleys 120 mph hydro engine Bob has been a great help over the years in my efforts on flash steam so if I can pass on info that I have gleaned from him I will be only too happy.
As I have tried to send pics with my last post to you and lost all my blethers as well I will send this and post pics later.
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: benjaml1 on June 23, 2010, 08:41:21 pm
Hi, I'm interested in the swept volume/rpm on the pump compared to the engine ?
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 23, 2010, 09:49:54 pm
Hi,
Not sure what pump you want the info on, is it the one in EXPERIMENTAL FLASH STEAM , or the pumps on my Flash steam engine.

George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: benjaml1 on June 24, 2010, 08:42:04 am
The one/s on your flash steam engine....Thank you
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: flashtwo on June 24, 2010, 09:53:52 am
Hi,

I agree with George in that I would class my boiler as a monotube rather than flash steam, since the water isn't hitting red hot pipes and "exploding" into steam.

My plant happily cruises along at 7psi and a temperature of 125degC with the Stuart D10 ticking over at 200RPM. With an increase in feed supply, the pressure is at 21-25psi  and the D10 at 500RPM. The prop is a 4 blade, 5inch supplied by Propshop for the D10. Butane/propane gas consumption is 4g/min and typical runs are 45 mins although in theory the gas cylinder should give me 100mins or so. The ultimate boat is to be a Windermere launch, so the above performance will be more than adequate.

I've found the limiting factor is the fuel supply pressure due to the well known cooling of the cylinder, which is acceptable in the summer, but gives a much lower perfoamnce in the winter.

I'm using 4mm copper tube which is very easy to bend into the coil, taking less than an hour to make including the end fittings.

As you may have also seen that I'm experimenting with steam jet propulsion. Like George I have blown a copper tube under high pressure and temperature conditions (no bang it justs stops working) and have had steam temps of 750degC and pressures up to 300psi; the steam jet engine would certainly benefit from using stainless tube. The steam jet boat would certainly be using flash steam in its true sense. The theorectical problems of jet propulsion in general are being discussed under the steam jet boat thread.

I will be updating the "Flash Steam control" soon with the latest experimental developments.


Ian
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: kiwimodeller on June 24, 2010, 11:40:17 am
Thanks for all the encouragement guys, I will get there one day. I am not aiming to break records but it would be good to play with an alternative to the usual type of boilers. Sounds like I am really looking at Monotube boiler setup and that the Benson & Rayman book would be worth getting. If I remember correctly there was mention in earlier posts that the book was to be updated and re-published? I will do an Abe books search. Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: flashtwo on June 24, 2010, 01:07:43 pm
Hi Ian,

Regarding the flash steam book it was only Alan Rayman himself that, perhaps half-jokingly, said that if the book was republished that I should bring it up to date with a section on control methods.

I will be writing an article for "Engineering in Miniature" now that Vital Byte will be back on the water with its new control system, which is a much neater package than the prototype.

Ian.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: steamboatmodel on June 24, 2010, 03:20:04 pm
Hi Ian,

Regarding the flash steam book it was only Alan Rayman himself that, perhaps half-jokingly, said that if the book was republished that I should bring it up to date with a section on control methods.

I will be writing an article for "Engineering in Miniature" now that Vital Byte will be back on the water with its new control system, which is a much neater package than the prototype.

Ian.
Hi Ian,
Be sure to let us know when the article is published so we can track down a copy.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 24, 2010, 04:32:29 pm
Hi Benjaml,

The pumps on my flash steamer are as follows

Water pump is 1/4" bore and the stroke is variable from 1/4" ----5/8"
Fuel pump is 3/16 bore and as it is linked to the water pump it pumps at the same speed.
The pumps are geared 6/1 from main shaft and the engine revs are between 10,000 --- 15,000.
The ball valves are 1/4" dia and have .015" lift

Temperature and pressure is unknown but I at one time blew a coil of 316 stainless steel x 1/4" o.d which has a max of 550 bar ( 8250 p.s.i.)
STEAMBOATPHIL  actually has show a pic of the repaired coil on a recent posting.

I hope this info is of help.
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 24, 2010, 05:03:56 pm
Hi FLASHTWO.

I do admire your efforts with the computerised controls, how I wish you were nearer to me in order that you could help me to resize my pics.I don't know much about using steam as a jet propulsion but would suspect that you will need bags of highly super heated stem.

One comment that I would make is that is that my engine theoretically uses the injected steam twice.
As the poppet valve starts to open at 5deg before T.D.C. and then closes after 45deg and for a further 100 deg uses the expansion of the steam to propel the main shaft round before exhausting and then the cycle starts and during the time that the valve is closed the back up pressure in the coil builds up for the next opening and fires in a blast of steam to drive the engine.
The point being that as you are producing steam through an open jet the steam is expanding before it starts to condense could you find a way to use the expansion to further and build up the pressure in the coil.

Keep up the experimenting I shall watch your progress and if I can be of any help don't hesitate to contact me.
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: benjaml1 on June 24, 2010, 08:18:12 pm
Hi Benjaml,

The pumps on my flash steamer are as follows

Water pump is 1/4" bore and the stroke is variable from 1/4" ----5/8"
Fuel pump is 3/16 bore and as it is linked to the water pump it pumps at the same speed.
The pumps are geared 6/1 from main shaft and the engine revs are between 10,000 --- 15,000.
The ball valves are 1/4" dia and have .015" lift

Temperature and pressure is unknown but I at one time blew a coil of 316 stainless steel x 1/4" o.d which has a max of 550 bar ( 8250 p.s.i.)
STEAMBOATPHIL  actually has show a pic of the repaired coil on a recent posting.

I hope this info is of help.
George.

Thank you George, I find this all fascinating ! Am I right in thinking this would have to be engineered to withstand & supply full line (tube) pressure ?? I would also note this rating is for "seamless" s/s of adequate wall thickness tube, which is of course temperature dependant (see Table 24—Elevated Temperature Factors).. I've taken the liberty to add some data below...

http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-107.PDF (http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-107.PDF)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on June 24, 2010, 10:46:54 pm
This is a great topic. Thanks for posting it. I've personally wanted to play around with designing a flash steam plant for years now.

P.S. You may find this interesting or disturbing but, some colleagues and myself have been planning to build a small lightweight steam powered quadra-cycle later this summer just for fun and I've often thought about using some sort of flash steam boiler design to generate enough steam quickly enough for the small twin cylinder engine we may use on it. Everything is still really in the early stages of brain storming though.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 25, 2010, 12:13:53 am
Thank you George, I find this all fascinating ! Am I right in thinking this would have to be engineered to withstand & supply full line (tube) pressure ?? I would also note this rating is for "seamless" s/s of adequate wall thickness tube, which is of course temperature dependant (see Table 24—Elevated Temperature Factors).. I've taken the liberty to add some data below...

http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-107.PDF (http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-01-107.PDF)
One of the problems with most people when they think about flash steam is to try and calculate all the different possibilities some of which I think are impossible to do and you can get bogged down in theory rather than cutting metal..
When I started out I went to the Mitchell Library in Glasgow which has the finest ref section in Europe and hunted out all the articles that were highlighted in EXPERIMENTAL FLASH STEAM and could be found in back copies of M.E..
Eventually I arrived at R.KIrtley's write up on his boat PISCIS 11 which at that time was doing 100 mph. all my work has been empirical and following what Bob and others before him had accomplished, All the varying metals that had been used were listed so I followed on their footsteps.
Some of the metals on my first engine were not available in small quantities so I had to improvise.
For instance I tried all sorts of materials to make the Poppet valve and seat, I found that Silver Steel oil hardened worked reasonably well but eventually softened as the high temperatures hit it and I had to constantly make new valves and seats.
When I made the new bigger bore engine I used Bob's method of machining the valve and the seat from the exhaust valve of a Cummins Diesal Engine and to date , as I and Bob has found it has been totally satisfactory.
I have never tried to calculate the steam pressure in the Stainless Steel coil I only know that Bob has used this for years and if it's O.K. for 120 mph it's O.K. for me.
It really is hard enough to get the steam plant working but the challenge was just too much for me to ignore and as when I was in business I never had much opportunity to do machining, only design work, so this was the challenge to make some thing and make it work.
Flash Steam is the most infuriating subject and there have been many break downs and repairs, it is not for the feint hearted but when you here that roar of the burners and the boat takes of it's worth it.
I have loads of pics but have not found out how to resize them so if you are interested have a look on my club web site and you will see some of the pics of the new engine  ( www.glasgowrichmondmbc.co.uk )
George.





Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 25, 2010, 12:18:07 am
This is a great topic. Thanks for posting it. I've personally wanted to play around with designing a flash steam plant for years now.

P.S. You may find this interesting or disturbing but, some colleagues and myself have been planning to build a small lightweight steam powered quadra-cycle later this summer just for fun and I've often thought about using some sort of flash steam boiler design to generate enough steam quickly enough for the small twin cylinder engine we may use on it. Everything is still really in the early stages of brain storming though.

Great to hear from you GO TO IT If I can be of any help please get in touch, did you know that there already has been a flash steam powered bicycle,
it would certainly keep your legs worm in the winter.
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on June 25, 2010, 12:32:50 am
I've just looked at the photos posted on your clubs website of OOYAH and all I have to say is beautiful work!  :-)) The engines is simply impressive looking to say the absolute very least. The flash boiler unit and well thought out burner configuration is brilliant!
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: flashtwo on June 25, 2010, 08:32:02 am
Hi George,

It was because of the problems associated with the engines, under true flash steaming condititions, that I decided to get rid of the engine altogether and experiment with a pure jet.

Considering the expansive nature of steam (1600:1), I reasoned that there would tremendous power available from its momentum/kinetic energy by converting its pressure into velocity via a nozzle. The flash boiler is just the right steam generator to use because of its simplicity, fast response, lightness and above all safety.

I shall be explaining the fundamental physics involved under the steam jet engine thread.

Ian.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 26, 2010, 01:51:36 am



OK, let me just have a little bit now chaps, flash steam, ok we have the principle, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is based on high speed model bots ( model boat forum cos boats is best etc etc) As some of you will will  be aware I run high speed straight running  boats, and am proud to say that Alan Rayman and John Benson (them wot rote the book on Experimental Flash Steam, and Alan's book on "High Speed Marine Steam") are very much with us and still members of my club (along with flash2 I might add)
Anyway back to the plot, as Ian has said (Flash2) you can run flash steam as low as 20 psi, now what are you trying to get at...Bob K is going for the fastest speed for a flash steamer (which he has done by the way) round the pole chaps not on the straight....... George (must meet up) has produced a uniflow radio flash boat.
So I'm going to build (well have a few bits built) a radio flash steam boat based on a slide valve engine's AA Raymans book (which is a copy of my Grandads engine's really Alan will tell you)
So, Georges boat  not sure about mine with electric pumps......   
But then its all "Experimental Flash Steam" and High Speed Marine Steam"
And Alan and John (remember them and the bookstall available from Tee publising------them that do EIM mag)
So flash steam is not all out, I have a demo oscillating engine running from flash steam  (will be shown at the Midlands ME Exhibition this year)
So you can do anything from Ian's 20psi to Bobs   gwad know what-------- my V4 single acting works on about 500psi at 750c
Pressure is one thing, but temp is very important----but the really important thing to remember is valve timing and (pay attention now)----propellers
Get that wrong-----well your stuffed.......

And just Incas you lot think I'm biased, Alan Rayman and John Benson are members of my club (as is flash2) well just thought I would remind you, and I do know members of EIM magazine although I receive no monetary contributions from them
Thats the legal bit over

All spelling misstakes are deliberate by the way



Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: kiwimodeller on June 26, 2010, 12:14:48 pm
Phil, Mr Google found the Tee Publishing website for me no problem. How serious were you about a re-write or updated edition of the book? Do I wait for the new edition? Thanks, Ian.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on June 28, 2010, 12:08:01 am
Hi Phil,
As a mater of interest what size of props do you use on your straight runners ?
Are they submerged or surface drives?
What speeds are you allowed with your straight runners?
What type of boat do you run at 500psi and at 750 C?
Also I am interested in how you measure the mentioned figures as I have never been brave enough to put a gauge on my Flash Steam plant.
I once put a 150 psi gauge on the fuel line and blew it apart.
As I am used to FLASH BANG instant steam how long does it take to raise steam in your oscillator?

Regards
George.

OK, let me just have a little bit now chaps, flash steam, ok we have the principle, one of the most frequent questions I am asked is based on high speed model bots ( model boat forum cos boats is best etc etc) As some of you will will  be aware I run high speed straight running  boats, and am proud to say that Alan Rayman and John Benson (them wot rote the book on Experimental Flash Steam, and Alan's book on "High Speed Marine Steam") are very much with us and still members of my club (along with flash2 I might add)
Anyway back to the plot, as Ian has said (Flash2) you can run flash steam as low as 20 psi, now what are you trying to get at...Bob K is going for the fastest speed for a flash steamer (which he has done by the way) round the pole chaps not on the straight....... George (must meet up) has produced a uniflow radio flash boat.
So I'm going to build (well have a few bits built) a radio flash steam boat based on a slide valve engine's AA Raymans book (which is a copy of my Grandads engine's really Alan will tell you)
So, Georges boat  not sure about mine with electric pumps......   
But then its all "Experimental Flash Steam" and High Speed Marine Steam"
And Alan and John (remember them and the bookstall available from Tee publising------them that do EIM mag)
So flash steam is not all out, I have a demo oscillating engine running from flash steam  (will be shown at the Midlands ME Exhibition this year)
So you can do anything from Ian's 20psi to Bobs   gwad know what-------- my V4 single acting works on about 500psi at 750c
Pressure is one thing, but temp is very important----but the really important thing to remember is valve timing and (pay attention now)----propellers
Get that wrong-----well your stuffed.......

And just Incas you lot think I'm biased, Alan Rayman and John Benson are members of my club (as is flash2) well just thought I would remind you, and I do know members of EIM magazine although I receive no monetary contributions from them
Thats the legal bit over

All spelling misstakes are deliberate by the way




Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 29, 2010, 11:40:00 am
On most of them (although there is a slight design difference) they are all submerge drive and have a 3 1/2 dia  x 8in pitch 2 bladed.
The max speed we are allowed with the straight runners is 12 mph, although I have 2 that I just can't get to run that slow !!!!
On avarage they are doing about 15mph, not bad for a metre long boat, and be fair some silly s*d has to catch the damn thing.
Now if I run for more than the normal 15mins (well they are only 60 yard course lengths) and every thing starts to get really warm, the
engine really starts to behave, and the last time this happened it was timed at 22mph-----and i was the silly s*d that caught it  %%

I have a v4 piston valve plant running on flash steam, measuring the temp was ok, but pressure was done using a whopping great 0-2000 PSI
gauge that my dad got hold of (although not calibrated it game a idea at the time) Not tried it since beacause the pipe work and addaptors
 I had to make was a nightmere. And now I've changed the, control valve and most of the other bits, so my gizzmo no longer fits.

I will post some pics of the pland and the hull (which is 5ft long and weighs about 35lbs.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 01, 2010, 08:10:59 pm
Hi Phil,
Thank's for the info on prop size, I must try a bigger one on OOYAH.
I am trying to find the way to post pics so here is my first trial.
George.
(http://s3.postimage.org/LHA4J.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqLHA4J)

(http://s3.postimage.org/LImYA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqLImYA)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 01, 2010, 08:18:52 pm

(http://s3.postimage.org/LK1JA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqLK1JA)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 01, 2010, 08:29:55 pm
Hi Phil,

Could you right click on the second pic and let me know what happens,
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: geoff p on July 02, 2010, 10:12:28 am
George, that second picture comes up in postimage.org ( as I think it should) as bright as a button: it is 640 x 480 pixels and 84Kb and really shows good detail.

Now if you can do that again for some more pics ....

I'm fascinated by the whole flash-steam/monotube-boiler scene, mostly at the low-pressure, easily-made generator end of things.

Geoff
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 02, 2010, 07:53:21 pm
Hi Geoff,
Here are some pics of the engine build as requested I will post another set of pics of the coil and casing. Click on image for full size
George.
(http://s1.postimage.org/q_4RS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxq_4RS)

(http://s1.postimage.org/q_hkA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxq_hkA)

(http://s4.postimage.org/y3RJS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVy3RJS)

(http://s2.postimage.org/hmSJS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TshmSJS)

(http://s2.postimage.org/hn1Ir.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Tshn1Ir)

(http://s1.postimage.org/r06IA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxr06IA)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 02, 2010, 08:58:10 pm
Hi Geoff,
Here is a Cross Section of the 120mph R Kirtleys engine that I have copied, it will let you see how it works..
will post pics of Coil and Casing next.
George.
(http://s4.postimage.org/yfA39.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVyfA39)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 02, 2010, 09:06:42 pm
Hi Geoff ,
Here are pics of Coil & Burners. Burner jets (3 off ) each with .025" holes.
(http://s4.postimage.org/yfU0i.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVyfU0i)

(http://s1.postimage.org/rbIyr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxrbIyr)

(http://s2.postimage.org/hthP0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TshthP0)

(http://s2.postimage.org/htpir.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Tshtpir)

(http://s1.postimage.org/rdYJA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxrdYJA)

(http://s1.postimage.org/rfh2i.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxrfh2i)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: benjaml1 on July 03, 2010, 08:50:12 am
Incredible stuff.... :-))
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: geoff p on July 03, 2010, 11:18:02 am
Splendid pics, George - as they say, worth a thousand words.

The 'tee' off the steam supply at the engine goes to a cylindrical tank.  Is that a displacement lubricator?  It looks to be a long way from the engine if it is?

Also, there are no connections (yet) to the fuel and water pumps, so how are you pumping dais items?

Geoff
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 03, 2010, 08:54:41 pm
Hi Geoff,
Well spotted, that pic is one that I had taken before all was piped up.
The lubricator is a hydrostatic lubricator and is operated by the water pressure.  The water is pumped from the delivery side of the pump to the cross piece and then goes to the bottom of the lubricator which has a free fall piston inside, the water pressure pushes the piston up to the top and the oil is delivered through a .030" dia hole every time the valve opens, I push the piston to the bottom and fill the lubricator before starting.
The other pipe goes to the blow down valve which stops the engine and the straight through is to the coil.

As I use pond water I have installed a paper filter to the water line, these are bought on e-bay from car accessory suppliers as fuel filters, I through them away when they start to discolour.

Hope this answers your question.
George.
(http://s1.postimage.org/tNy5A.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxtNy5A)

(http://s1.postimage.org/tNI49.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxtNI49)

(http://s1.postimage.org/tNN3r.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxtNN3r)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on July 05, 2010, 12:49:13 pm
Great pics George, and a nice piece of work too. Sorry for the delay, this damn work thing keeps getting in the way. I hope to post some photos of mine when I get more than a few secs to myself.   :-))
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 06, 2010, 11:10:45 am
Hi Phil,
I would like to see some pics of your  V4 steam plant and boat and your New flashsteam project.

Your oscillating flash steam powered engine how long does it take to raise steam ?

George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on July 08, 2010, 02:33:27 pm
Here is my V4, its single acting with piston valves. The second photo shows the drives for the 3 pumps, variable throw eccentric, which drives the fuel pump from the crank and the eccentric drives the water and oil pumps. 12 ft of stainless steel 316, with 3/16th bore. As you can see, its built a straight runner so I don't want it to go looney.

Phil
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on July 08, 2010, 02:34:38 pm
Put all that together, and it does float........ {-)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: benjaml1 on July 08, 2010, 03:42:25 pm
Brilliant...  :-))
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: flashtwo on July 08, 2010, 08:04:50 pm
Hi Phil,

You can understand why I'm trying to build a steam boat without an engine - I just haven't got that level of model engine buildings skills that you're demonstrating!

Ian (flashtwo)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: flashtwo on July 08, 2010, 08:06:24 pm
p.s.

and I include George's skills  in the above reply.

Ian.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 08, 2010, 10:20:42 pm
Hi Phil,
This is what I call a plumbers nightmare,bet you get many burnt fingers going in there.
I wouldn't like to try and catch it at 20mph +.
I have always admired you straight runners but there is just no interest up here in Glasgow although my club has quite a few steam boat modelers.
Black heath has a long history of Flashsteam straight runners but you are just too far away for me to drag my old bones down there.

Who built the engine?
How about an answer to how long it takes to raise steam in your Oscillator.

George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on July 09, 2010, 10:02:49 am
Sorry for got to answer, to get the little oscillator buzzing over from cold takes less than 60sec, and will run for a quite a few minuets (its only a small water tank).

The V4 was built by the late Arthur Cockman in 1965, he was a member of the Victoria Model Steam Boat Club until he passed away some 14 years ago. He was best known for his "IFIT" series of flash steam hydroplanes from the 30's onwards. In fact some of the pumps on the V4 come from "IFIT 4". It is a plumbers nightmare in there, and I have the burns to prove it. I got hold of it (from Auction) 4 years ago after it had been sitting in the Motor Boat Museum since his death. I stripped it down as it was seized solid, rebuilt it including a new flash coil which had blown. I have since rebuilt all the pumps and replaced some of the pipework (he had some strange idea's) and made a new stainless steel flame tube.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: John W E on July 09, 2010, 07:24:42 pm
hi there all

With a reference to Bob Kirtley's Pisces II steam engine, I was talking to Bob last Sunday and trying to encourage him to take part in this topic on the Forum.   At the present moment though I failed - I think the main reasoning behind it is that Bob likes to spend a lot of time in his workshop - he has to rebuild and repair the motor in Pisces II.  As I have said on another thread, Bob was in France competing with this model (which wasnt very successful due to inclement weather conditions).   Also, when Bob came back to England UK he was competing in the South.  Because of the new restrictions (I believe) or the set up they now put up a foam floating ring around the circumference of the hydro-plane run - for safety.   The wash was coming back off this and caused the hydro-plane to 'pound' or 'porpoise' consequently it snapped the crank-shaft of the engine.

Knowing Bob, it will be repaired by now.

Just a bit of a side-note.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: ooyah/2 on July 10, 2010, 06:11:49 pm
Hi Phil,
It's good to see that some body is looking after and rebuilding some of the engines that were built by some of the great names in early flashsteam racing.
I have spent many hours in the Mitchell library in Glasgow reading over the many articles in the M.E.  of the greats to mention but a few A.W. Martin,
 E.Westbury, Prof Chaddock,  Jim Bamford, A Cockman and Benson and Rayman not all in chronological order.
You are very privilaged to live amongst some of these guys who have done it and to throw ideas about to see if things would work.
Flashsteam high speed boats is an unknown thing in Scotland so it has been a long lonely road trying out things ,breaking and rebuilding but I think I got there in the end.
At present the boat is going a bit too fast and is becoming dangerous what with club members boating and the swans on the pond it's making me think again about the radio side of things, it only needs a glich on the stearing and you are in big trouble.
I had a happening about 3-weeks ago when at full bore the boat turned sharp left and had to be held on full right rudderto keep it straight, but not knowing what the trouble was I tried to straighten it up but it went full left and hit an ornamental light house in the pond and shot 4 ft in the air, landed and proceeded to keep going before the blow down valve servo answered and stop it.
It turned out that it was a length of cord attached to a 12 volt battery that had offset the rudder, as this is a public pond it was a mister nobody that had put the offending object in the water, super market trolleys have been fished out in the past so I have to be carefull.
Last question with your oscillating engine how do you feed the coil, electric pump or engine driven pump ? and at what speed ?
I am going to open another thread on an engine that I made in the style of A.W.Martin.
George.
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: WestCorkSteamer on February 24, 2013, 07:42:32 pm
Hi Phil,


I know this is a very old thread now, but just had to thank you for buying and restoring Guinevere.
Arthur was my step father.
It was a family decision to sell his boats, and one that I was not happy about, and I've been looking for them ever since.
But I'm really glad that you have Guinevere and have been able to do it justice, which is more than I would have been able to do.
I am, finally, back into model making after a too long gap.
I'm also keeping an eye out for Arthur's IFIT 9, also sold at the same auction, and his traction engines and stationary engines which were disposed of before I had any clue that it was going to happen.


Thanks again, and happy steaming  :-)


Ron

Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: K ridley on December 26, 2019, 04:56:51 pm
Hi Ron I have IFit 9 in my possession
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: SteamboatPhil on December 27, 2019, 01:07:36 pm
Have you fitted the new pumps  ;)
Title: Re: OOYAH a Flash steamer.
Post by: K ridley on December 27, 2019, 04:17:30 pm
Hi phill
             I'm busy with a hydrostatic lubricator as per bob kirtleys drawings I'm going to use the pressurised blowlamp that is already in place.
As for the main water pump size I'm not sure trying to get some old copies of model engineer
I tried to run the motor on air but no luck Bob is going to take a look at the valve timing when he gets a minute
I'm in no rush and will probably bring it down to Victoria  club in the summer
Cheers
Kev