Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: LarryW on June 24, 2010, 01:24:44 pm
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hi i am half way scratch build tug john king ready for moter and prop any body help cheers larry.
(http://s3.postimage.org/o5hxi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqo5hxi)
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Hi Larry,
Judging from the photo, I'd say you would need a 1,000 Hp diesel and a 12inch propshaft!!! ok2
What size is you model?
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hi 34in long 9in beam 5in draft does this help if not i will down scrap yard with a blow torch larry {-)
(http://s3.postimage.org/oMLj9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
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It doesn't say on the plans?
If you have to figure it out from scratch, ask the Bristol Museum what the diameter of the fullsize propeller is.
Scale that down to model size and round up to the nearest quarter inch or 5mm and look at this graph < http://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/propgraph.jpg (http://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/propgraph.jpg) > which will tell you what is the maximum efficient RPM. This is what you should aim for at the other end of the propshaft.
I would go first to the nearest tool/appliance repair joint or parts surplus and ask if they have surplus electric motors there. A lot of power drills/drivers use good Johnson DC motors and a lot of office machines have VERY good Buehler or Pittman motors. They also publish spec sheets online so you can look up the specifications via the serial number.
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Good advice on sourcing motors. :-))
However I have not been able to find any form of identification on a lot of such motors >>:-( and measuring the can is not much help because a couple of models share the same "can" size. <:(
Don't suppose there any other way to identify the motor. {:-{ {:-{
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Good advice on sourcing motors. :-))
However I have not been able to find any form of identification on a lot of such motors >>:-( and measuring the can is not much help because a couple of models share the same "can" size. <:(
Don't suppose there any other way to identify the motor. {:-{ {:-{
If it has no markings on it at all then it's a mystery. You can work out the specifics yourself but, then you would already have bought it.
If it does have a manufacturers name on it, try Google Image searching (manufacturer) DC motor. You might get lucky and spot one that looks like yours, and be able to get some information from that.
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Gathered as much.
Google image search is a good idea, thank you. :-))
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i know you have a slight problem as bristol industrial museum is closed for development , however the steam locos are still at the back of the biulding ! one of the men that works for the industrial museum is MR CHRIS WEST , who is also a keen model boat maker , he may be able to assist ! as for motors id look at model motors direct who can supply good quality motors at reasonable cost . as john king was a bristol harbour tug ( now pba ) have you asked at the harbour masters office , baltic wharf , cumberland road , they may also be able to assist . threr arent many traditional scrap yards left in bristol , thats small street in st phillips , pa salvage in tower rd, warmley , or avonmouth car spares , severn rd hallen . sorry i cant give you phone numbers as the only ones i have are personal mobile numbers ( i used to be in the trade in bristol ) everybody else breaks the cars & puts parts on a shelf !
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(http://s4.postimage.org/zdvQ0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVzdvQ0)
thankyou all for info now know prop size just want moter and esc hope to find it soon cheers larry . :-))
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sorry missed out prop size 70mm 3 blade larry :embarrassed:
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That narrows it down a lot. :}
70mm prop will take a maximum of around 5000 RPM, with a fair bit of torque. You do not need that much just to move the boat around the pond
Possible 12v systems (links provided for reference):
-Pittman 14201, purchased used (hard to find at the moment). http://automationexpress.com/Products/DC_Motors/pdf/14203S010.pdf (http://automationexpress.com/Products/DC_Motors/pdf/14203S010.pdf)
-MFA Torpedo 800 http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mfa1114_1.html (http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mfa1114_1.html)
-Buehler 1.13.043.242-series, purchased used http://www.princessauto.com/surplus/electrical/motors/8199044-12-vdc-motor (http://www.princessauto.com/surplus/electrical/motors/8199044-12-vdc-motor)
-MFA 950D motor and gearbox unit http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mfa_950d61.html (http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mfa_950d61.html)
-Graupner Speed 500 with Graupner3:1 reduction gearbox: http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner_1788.html (http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner_1788.html) + http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/gearboxes.html (http://cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/gearboxes.html) the grey units at the page bottom, NOT the cheap mickey-mouse black units.
There are far too many possible speed controllers for me to list without wearing out my keyboard. Mtronics, ACTion, Graupner, Astro Flight, Vantec and Robbe would all be good brands to look at. 15-20 amp capacity is fine, since you should place a fuse between the battery and controller that's rated at or just below the controller's maximum capacity anyways.
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(http://s1.postimage.org/xhE6i.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxxhE6i)
my john king ready for motor and bits :-))
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Looking good Larry, :-)) Whats its history etc, I do love old type tugs, our generation I suppose?
All the best Tony.
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hi there john king claim to fame is it worked Avon and Bristol docks and was one of the tugs that pulled the SS great Briton in to Bristol look at both boats on line for the full story its all in the news down here , being a beginner and a ex land locked brummie now living in the west the boats in the docks got be interested in boat modeling,i have been at it a year now it fills in the boredom of retirement, cheers Larry. O0
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Looking good Larry! :-))
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thank you still a bit to do yet, O0 Larry.
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looking good , where are you planing to sail her ?
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Hi Larry
I'm following your build with great interest. You have made a super job of her :-)), so much so, that I am going to have a go at building her myself.
For your information there is an article in Marine Modelling International (May 1999) that I have in front of me which describes the build by Jim Pottinger. Although not a long article, there is enough to whet my appetite.
There would appear to be plans of this model in 1:24 scale (around £16 these days!!) and the write up describes quite a few interesting details of the Tug and her history.
As an ex Bristolian living not too far away, I was going to trip over to the Docks and take a few thousand pictures to aid my construction, but according to 'triumphjon', the buildings are closed to the public. ( Thank you for the info, you've saved me a few gallons of petrol :-)) ). I might consider sailing around the back to access a good view, as she reported to be afloat. %)
How are you getting on in the motor department ? I will have to consider this so please let us know what works best.
Catch you again
Ken
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tug kenny , it may be worth checking with the bristol city museum as the industrial museum was under the same collection although housed at the dockside , as far as im aware its only the biulding thats closed for refurbishment ( or bristol council wasteing yet more money ! ) the tug along with pyronaut and the steam tug ( sorry cant remember its name ! ) was still moored outside the biulding . alternitivly there is a small maritime museum next to the ss great britian they may also be able to assist . unfortunatly like you ive defected too ,,im now liveing in cleaner & sunneyer portsmouth !
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Hi Jon,
Thank you for that. I shall have a go at contacting people and let you know how I get on. If I talk to them on the 'Phone' they will think it's a 'local boy' with my accent. :}
This is taking off now. I can get back to TUG building. Yippee :-)) :-)) :-))
Sorry to hijack your thread Larry.
Ken
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(http://s3.postimage.org/TaH99.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqTaH99)
hi tug heres pic to get you started i stack of pics if you get stuck on any thing .cheers larry. :-))
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I am mailing you privately. Thanks for the picture
Ken
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(http://s1.postimage.org/JdWTJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxJdWTJ)
(http://s1.postimage.org/JdZnS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxJdZnS)
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:-)) :-)) smashing
ken
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Further developments on my front.
There is a Harbour festival on this weekend (31st July) and the John King will be sailing up and down taking passengers on trips around the Harbour. I'd better get on board with a Forum name like mine, methinks. ;)
I have been in contact with Andy King and he has the ship's drawings at £10 a set, so that's a good starting point. The details of the Museum are as follows, if anyone wants a set :-
Museum of Bristol project,
"L" shed office
Wapping road
Bristol BS1 4RN.
tel 0117 9031569
If you want to visit, then the place is down by the Swing bridge in Cumberland Basin.
How you getting on Larry ?
Hope this helps
Ken
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Hi Ken,
She has a 'little sister' called Volunteer. Built in 1934 she survives and the plan is to return her home to Bristol for restoration to near original form will commence. She is privately owned by a friend of mine . . . I'm on her next weekend at her current location in the North West. She has had to undergo a lot of work to get her capable of coming home - not far off another great britain job! Oneday she will head up the Avon . . . . oneday {-)
Not sure if plans of her still exist - let me know if you find any!
Her claim to fame . . . . the first diesel tug to work in the Bristol Channel.
See - http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/ships_register.php?action=ship&id=2097
Cheers
Chris
(http://www.clydesite.co.uk/bristol/images/2008/05/25112.jpg)
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Hi Chis,
Didn't get a chance to go over as Migraine took over. Will be contacting the Bristol Project in person soon to acquire the drawing of 'John King'. I will ask about the 'Volunteer' when I'm there, although it looks a simple construction and worth a scratch attempt.
Ken
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(http://s3.postimage.org/83DG0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq83DG0)
(http://s4.postimage.org/OoFZ9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVOoFZ9)
(http://s2.postimage.org/Aq_iS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsAq_iS)
HI ALL LAUNCH WENT WELL HAPPY AS LARRY. O0
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hi Cris looking at your pi cs of the volenter ,....... hull as the same lines as the jk ,..... i will have go at amock up on the PC ...Larry O0
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Hi Larry,
She is a little smaller than thew JK but hull lines pretty much the same. This shot shows her alongside the John King when both tugs were with Ashmead's.
http://sharpnessshipping.fotopic.net/p56722635.html
See also for history/info -
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/ships_register.php?action=ship&id=2097
http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/ships_register.php?action=ship&id=1003
And for a good picture here - http://www.pbase.com/pgalena/image/106075185
Cheers
Chris
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hi Cris thank you for web pages lots of future builds there great pictures of bristol docks it looked that way when i came to live in this area ,....shame its all gone now / ... cheers Larry O0
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Hi Larry. I have only just seen your post about the John King tug. I built this approx 10 years ago and is regularly sailed in Cornwall. I lived in Bristol when I built this and unbeknown to me my father in law was the senior engineer on her. I had the pleasure on going down the docks in her before I moved. I also have some history on the tug. I would love to make contact and exchange information. Regards,. Pete.
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Hi
Do you realise that this thread was last posted on in 2010?
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I have to report that sadly Larry has passed away.
I never got around to making this tug.
ken