Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: Netleyned on July 20, 2010, 09:12:37 am
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Anyone know of a retailer who has one of these in stock?
Yours Aye
Ned
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Westbourne models reckon they will have 24 in by the end of the week, I have one ordered
Martin
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Thanks for the info Martin
Yours Aye
Ned
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Should you ever need one, I have a spare keel. :-))
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Yep. ModelsportDirect have them at about £80. :-))
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I will have to get onto my LHS and see how my orders getting on
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Nope, my LHS checked with Amerang last friday.. still no stock
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Westbourne Models still nil stock... :(( My models shop phoned Amerang today... first week of September at the earliest <:( Modelsdirect are nil stock too...Anybody know anywhere that has stock ?
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A Model World (A site sponsor) emailed me to say they would have them on 16th August at £82 delivered
Ned
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Thanks Ned....I will give Model World a bell come the 16/ Aug
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Could be in stock here?
http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/thunder-tiger-victoria-radio-control-yacht/
worth a phonecall I guess
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I've got a 2nd hand one for sale or do you want new?
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Could be in stock here?
http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/thunder-tiger-victoria-radio-control-yacht/
worth a phonecall I guess
Thanks... I have emailed them.
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http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/thunder-tiger-victoria-radio-control-yacht/ Wonderland is also out of stock.
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They will all be shipped in the same container to the UK distributors
so I would think all the major players will receive them at the same time
Just look for the best deal as we always do!
Ned
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There is one on ebay, listed today.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Model-boat-kit-Thunder-Tiger-Victoria-Yacht-/290462819110?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item43a0eee326
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Yep seen it
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The ebay TT Victoria price is rising nicely... at this rate it may go for more than retail :o
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Sail and demand!! {-)
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Very droll Martin... {-)
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Another one on flea bay.....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Victoria-RC-Yaght-Boat-/190432328178?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN
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The ebay TT Victoria price is rising nicely... at this rate it may go for more than retail :o
Now same price as A Model World delivery included in each case
Ned
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There is one on ebay, listed today.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Model-boat-kit-Thunder-Tiger-Victoria-Yacht-/290462819110?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item43a0eee326
It went for £74 + 10 postage.. Current A Model World price £89 inc P&P but no stock until the end of the month...
Apparently a container with some TT Victoria's in was "mislaid" which has contributed to the shortage
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My Victoria is coming via UPS tomorrow.... so fingers crossed that nothing is bent, broken or missing :((
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GOT IT looks ok... no obvious damage... now I have got to get a servo for the sail arm ...any recommendations
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Recommend Futaba S3305 if you sail in light winds only or the S3802 for strong winds but beware, sail servos are not cheap.
The Hitec range are cheaper than the futaba, but I am not familiar with them.
Please note that sail servos are bigger than standard servos. The Futabe S 3305 is almost the same size as a standard servo in plan view, but taller. The F S3802 is almost the same size (plan wise about 2mm longer), and much taller. But it will fit in the radio tray niceley. Try to get one that is almost the same size in plan view.
You do need a sail servo though. A standard servo is not strong enough. If it gets a bit windy where you plan to sail I would also recommend getting a higher torque servo, perhaps a minimum of 9kg of torque
http://alshobbies.com/ has a list of servos, and lists thier dimensions.
I have not connection with als hobbies, but I am a happy customer.
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Thanks Tiger.... The S3055 is recommended for EP cars only by Futaba....and has a reputation for giving trouble.. I have ordered a 3802..
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I use a Hitec HS-645MG in my Victoria, and am happy to recommend it.
Metal gears, dual ball bearings, 7.7kg/cm at 4.8v; 9.6kg/cm at 6v.
Not cheap at about £30, but if that's a problem then Howes are selling cheap high torque metal gear servos
for about half that. O0
Edward.
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No Futaba 3802 around so I got a HiTec Hs 645MG.
As I'm using a Planet T5, I am going to run the Rx on 6V...I have be told the rudder servo, a Futaba S148, is ok on 6V, and a online spec put out in the USA seems to confirm that...
I am just finishing building the stand at the moment...The joys of sanding sealer ;).... I haven't used it in years... even on my toy airplanes..."Sandpaper" clogs just thinking about it :}
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I have finally finished my radio box, I wonder if the sail arm line will snag the rx or the servo plugs ? (http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk303/dekanblu/IMG_0023.jpg)
The flat on the rudder shaft is way off... any ideas apart from filing it..Keel blade is too tight a fit in the hull.... so more filing required <:(
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I stuck my radio box in with big blobs of "clear" silicon sealant.
It held it very firmly and i was able to remove it, for a refit, with too much trouble.
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I stuck my radio box in with big blobs of "clear" silicon sealant.
It held it very firmly and i was able to remove it, for a refit, with too much trouble.
Martin..I'm not sure what I'm going to glue mine in with..what do you think of my efforts ?.... Do you think the sail arm rigging will snag the RX? I had to mount it as high as possible as I didn't want any problem with range on the 2.4g Rx.
Did you have any problems with the rudder arm "flat" position..
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Do you think the sail arm rigging will snag the RX?
Just arrange a sellotape cover, then theres no pointy bits to snag on. Otherwise, if it is possible to snag, it will. Its a tradition, or an ancient charter.
The box on mine was originally epoxied in place, and shortly after replacing the totally inadequate standard servo with one of the high torque offerings from Howes, dismounted itself. I refixed it using evo-stick blue "grab" adhesive. No further problems.
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Martin..I'm not sure what I'm going to glue mine in with..what do you think of my efforts ?.... Do you think the sail arm rigging will snag the RX? I had to mount it as high as possible as I didn't want any problem with range on the 2.4g Rx.
Did you have any problems with the rudder arm "flat" position..
Build looks very neat Dekan ! :-))
Yes, as Malc says, wrap up the rest of the radio box to prevent snagging.
Another way apart from selotape. would be an oval sheet of clear, thin plastic with two cut-outs for the servos to poke through,
allow a good 2 inches to overhang the radio box as there is plenty of room in the hull.
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Thanks Malc,The plate idea sounds good Martin, I have checked the keel and rudder alignment,That seems ok.
I managed to turn the Rudder shaft.. I don't know how I'm going to stop it wandering back though :} ..I have never heard of Evo-Stick Blue...
Lots more building than I first thought... I thought it would be bosh bosh.... screw done!!! ok2
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The good thing about the grab adhesive is that it sticks almost anything to almost anything else. The bad thing it that it does this whether you want it to or not, also, it comes in a large dispenser, being intended for the building trade and found in the adhesive section of most hardware stores. Also, its BLUE so is only suitable for out of sight joins.
Shaft waggling in rudder - allowing thin superglue to run down into the rudder might do the job. An alternative might be to, having aligned it properly, carefully drill a 1.5mm or thereabouts hole through the rudder and shaft, and poke a length of brass wire of matching diameter through, glueing in place and smoothing off. I haven't had the problem,so I'm only guessing.
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Thanks for the info Malc.. I have spent the morning making a keel bearing spreader plate.I glued it in place with Uhu plus Acrylit glue, I have never used it before, it seemed to work ok. I'm not sure about fitting the compression struts... lots of people don't seem to bother..
I have just finished gluing the lower part of the keel bearing tube in place with 1hr epoxy. I will have another look for the evo-stik glue.. the first time, I only found a woodworking glue in a blue bottle...
Is this the stuff? http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/evo-stik/serious-stuff-wet-grab
The shaft is only about 2.5mm dia so drilling a 1.5mm hole through it might be difficult.
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Thats the stuff. Works well as a motor mount fixing, as well. Leaves a resilient layer to keep sound level due to motor vibration down. When sticking to smooth plastic surfaces, probably best to abrade them a bit first.
Mine was a 2nd hand one that I refurbished, the original sail servo pulled out in anything more than a very light breeze, then the servo/radio box broke free when its mountings had to stand the much rougher conditions that were then available for sailing in after fitting the higher torque servo, and replacing the battery harness. Very much a case of fixing one weak link and revealing the next. For the last year its been a very reliable "take it to the pond and chuck it in and take it for a walk" boat.
For replacement/extra rigging, I prefer some stuff a mate gave me called "Ryobi Salmon Backing". Its braided, strong, low surface friction and brown, so I can easily tell which I have changed.
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Malc, I will get some tomorrow. How long does it take to dry? Any other potential problem I should attend to..
Have you had any problems with the keel fixing ?.. The top of mine needs reshaping or padding out by about a 1mm as it does not go fully down to the bottom of the hull keel socket.
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Grabbing is pretty instant, as you will notice when it goes where it shouldn't. I would just look at the instructions on the tube before buying for the actual drying time, but like most adhesives, the longer you can give it before trying to move the glued item, the better.
Like I said, mine was a second hand one - I've never had any trouble in that area. Just as well - the fin doesn't want to come out of the fin box anyway, if I really need to shift it I might have some trouble there.
Anything else?
It did seem to collect some water, this eventually turned out to be a minor leak at the base of the rudder tube (the joys of second hand!). I had to cut a hatch in the rear deck to get access, give a generous smear of silicone rubber stuff in the affected area, and make a new cover from a bit of styrene sheet, a bit bigger than the hole, fixed with the silicone rubber, in the expectation that should I ever need access again, it will be an easy job to remove it. It was probably this ingress of water that weakened the original glue.
I fitted a leech line on the jib as well. It helps keep the jib in shape by completing the triangle formed by the luff line up the front, the boom across the bottom and then the leech at the back.
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I have just "modified" my keel fin... it now fits the hull socket better... mine won't seize :} I know very little about yachts...So I think that I will have to sail mine before I start modify the rigging.
I am on holiday this week so I hope to have it ready for the weekend :-))..Unless I find anymore bits that don't fit
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Some gluing things related to TT Victoria I discovered.
The radio tray came adrift from inside of the hull, with the servo forces.
I heavily scored the inside of the hull before re-gluing. Fine ever since.
The little white blocks for attaching the shrouds came off.
I re-glued them with same glue. Some came off a second time, and I re-glued. They never moved again.
I think the surface of the plastic needs to be primed with the glue before it can really stick. Perhaps a surface/chemical issue.
But like I said, after a couple of gluings no problem. I have seen people on other websites rush out and get brass fitting to replace the plastic. There really is not need.
The plastic fittings can slide along the boom and mast, as the epoxy may not bite.
I scored the mast a little and used more epoxy, on the side that the plastic will move to.
No problem now.
One more tip.
The knots, as shown in the plan, to tie around the cleats.
These are scale knots. I found they were hard to tie and came loose.
I now use the cleats as clamps, by using the holding screws to clamp the cleat down on the sheets and lines.
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Hi Tiger Thanks for the info.
What glued did you stick the radio Box in with? I'm going to use Plast Weld on the rigging eyelets and hopefully that will work first time. I have heard that CA takes a couple of gluings.
I'm not sure which way the rings move when in use... so I will put a fillet both sides. Thanks for the info on the cleats I will have to find out what sort of knot the serious racers use on their rigging
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I stuck the radio tray in with epoxy.
For the rings I used the cement that came with the kit.
It contains acetone.
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The ABS glue supplied in the kit, I have been told by a couple of people, is not very good..So I put mine in the bin..
I had the opportunity to try a couple of Micro Magic Racers this morning at local club(Swanley). Cheers guys. :-)) Aren't boaters nice people.
They were both built by Mike Weston, who lives about 50yrds from the lake! He is one of the top competitors in this class of racing..
Although the wind was very light, you could see the potential....Impressed does not seem a big enough word some how..
So maybe a Micro Magic will be my next purchase...
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I bought some Evo-stik Serious stuff grab adhesive( Blue Tube as per web photo) today...the the colour of the adhesive on my tube is white and does not seem to glue wood to ABS even if you leave 4hrs to set..It was still tacky and had a grainy feel to it
I would be surprised if my tube glued anything together... maybe they have changed the formula....Not recommend by me :((
In the end I glued the Radio box in with 1hr expoxy after keying the hull. It's not a 100% perfect fit but on a curved hull its probably as good as it going to be...
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This stuff glues wood to ABS really well.... http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php?pid=ZAPPT12&area=ACCS....
The line suppled for the rigging is terrible soon as you cut it..... it unravels... I have spent about 4 hrs today on the masts and rigging and it's still only about half way there..A Sunday maiden voyage is not looking likely now :((
Who knows how a beginner would cope building this kit...I suppose you could have ignored the issues I found with the keel and rudder but the rigging is not easy..Admittedly this is my first yacht... but I have modeled most type of model airplanes for more years than I care to think about..
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The line is fine if you follow the instructions in the book.
Put a drop of CA where you want to cut, and it gets drawn in to the line.
Then slash cut the line, this gives a needle like point to aid threading.
I CA and slash cut all my lines, even the ones that do not unravel, makes threading easier.
This was my first boat, in fact my first non-arifix type model, and I managed OK. But I followed the instruction book, religiously, as many beginners do.
The rigging is not 'difficult' it is just 'complicated'.
The tips I found out about (and mentioned in my posts above) were discovered when fixing things after a few days/weeks sailing.
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Hi tiger. I have been doing that..... but some of the holes in the mast components are very small.... Did you enlarge any of them? ...I am following the manual to the letter but I still find it tough to rig.
Whats the purpose of the jumper line at the top of the mast?
Maybe building lots of "toy planes" :} isn't much help when building rc yachts...Theres a web site saying 3-4hrs to build the Victoria.... %%
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Some the rigging is really awkward, but I used a needle threader until I broke them all.
I now use a strand of wire from a multi strand cable, and melt the end of the line slightly with a lighter after cutting.
The jumper line serves no purpose, I removed mine.
Probably take 3-4 hrs if you've built one before.
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I founds using a needle helps a lot..I now have the mast mounted on the hull..I have just the sails to fit and and the sail arm throws to sort out.... {-)
I still find it had to believe that you could build one in 3-4hrs even if you didn't count glue drying time...
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I now use a strand of wire from a multi strand cable, and melt the end of the line slightly with a lighter after cutting.
The jumper line serves no purpose, I removed mine.
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I used strand of copper from mutlistrand too.
And yes the spreader lines are decorative only.
I didn't enlarge any holes in the bowsies, but I did ream the holes to clean them.
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Almost finished (I have left the decals and sail stiffeners off... I can fit them later) I just need to glue the rings to the jib and main boom... I will probably just put a spot of CA on them in case I need to move them later.
Is it worth checking for water leaks?
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I sat the Vic in a bath for 45mins no leaks found, but it lists to starboard by about 5 degrees ... So weather permitting she will have her maiden voyage tomorrow.
I will try and takes some pictures.
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I forgot the camera... but the Vic had rigging problems anyway.
The jib rattled against the mast and the main did not seem to fill properly, as the sail rings caused the sail edge to bind on the mast and main boom, which prevented the main sail taking up a good shape...
I have fixed the jib problem, but I still have to sort out the rings binding, I may have to ditch them, as most of the other Vics I have seen just to use loops of cord
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If your kiciking strap is too tight it will stop the boom from swinging..
Tighten the adjuster at the top of the gib, this will pull the line at the foot of the jib boom tight, and the boom will shift forwards.
Or it could be that the jib boom is too high, adjust the line that connects the jib boom to the deck.
It is all about tuning your rigging now.
The basic geometry design is correct, honest.
If you start being radical you can find you magnify a non-existant problem. Then you tweek that, etc, etc.
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Hi Tiger, I have sorted the jib out pretty much along the lines you have suggested..it's the main that giving me trouble now. The luff rings seem that little bit to small..crushing the the front edge of the sail against the mast...
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Mine too - doesn't seem to make ant difference. Cord loops do work very well, though. It could be that the distance from the edge of the sail to the eyelet differs between examples. I agree with tiger about keeping to the instructions as far as possible - they do work and keep you from trying to mend something that isn't broken. The purpose of the kicking strap is not to force the boom down, but to prevent it lifting while allowing it to swing out when the line is let out, and if its tweaked too tight, it will prevent the boom from swinging in light wind.
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Its going to be tested again tomorrow :-)).... so I hope the the work I have done does the job...I must remember to take the camera this time.. :D
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The Vic sailed a lot better today. :-)) The jib is is still not working as well as it could.... it needs more work.
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk303/dekanblu/Victoria.jpg)
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk303/dekanblu/VicatSwanley.jpg)
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The length of line between jib boom and deck should be 12mm according to the instructions I downloaded for mine. Yours looks to be rather more. Shortening the bit of string at the bottom will involve lengthening the bit at the top to avoid excessive mast movement. This will cause the sail to be moved forward a bit, and will help clearances.
Rule of the road here is that the leading edge should be straight. This is achieved by tensioning the luff line that runs up the leading edge hem. This has the side effect of pulling the front end of the jib up, thus doing its best to pull the other end down in the manner of a see-saw. In its turn, this places the rear edge of the sail under tension, which is not really wanted as it spoils the sail shape, and why I suggested fitting a leech line to support the back end of the jib boom.
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If the rings are a bit tight, mine were, it will not really affect the performance as the wind will 'blow the sail out'.
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I have reduced the height of the jib boom at its pivot point to an i" above the deck.... 12mm seem very low, I assumed that it was a misprint.
Where would you anchor the top of the leech line to?
I replaced the luff rings with loops of cord
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12mm is fine
Luff rings are fine
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Ok I will try 12mm
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My luff rings are still tight after several years.
However, with the sail pulled only to one side the sail sits flat and smoothly against one side of the mast. It does not affect the sailing.
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Where would you anchor the top of the leech line to?
This is an area where I deviated a bit from the instructions (page 13, fig 30). I added a round 4 hole bowsie (or, to use technical term, a shirt button) to the luff line between the top of the sail and the hole where it goes through the spreader. (2 holes) The top of the sail fixes to this (3rd hole), and the sail tensions against the luff line, which is effectively the forestay. I took the leech line from that (4th hole) down to the boom, with another bowsie to allow adjustment, looping through the eyelet and back up to the bowsie. Effectively, the entire sail assembly is now the forestay.
The 12mm is no misprint. With the boom fittings spaced as per the manual, it becomes critical to keeping the clearance between the back edge of the sail and the mast. It also gives the optimum slot between jib and main for running close hauled.
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I lowered the jib boom to 12mm above the deck...It just looks wrong.. there is only about 2mm between the deck eyelet and the boom ring...Which if you build as per manual does not leave enough room for the rigging snap to work properly...
I will try it like that... but on most pictures,videos and Vic I have seen, the boom is roughly the same height as the main boom (2.25")...This fits with most yacht rigging info I have been told or read ....The picture on the front of the instructions shows the jib boom set higher than the main.....
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I was always a bit uncertain about the snap - but mine just sits brushing the deck when close hauled and leaves the boom with about the right amount of offset so I never bothered to question it. I didn't build mine, I just bought it second hand and got the manual to sort out bits that didn't seem right that the previous owner had left to get it working to my satisfaction.
It was quite possible that with the rigging looking like badly hung washing, that the resulting lack of performance was the reason it was being sold. On the other hand, all the bits of string might have been just thrown on to show that they were there to ensure a sale. Looking at the strange and unlikely places that epoxy had been applied, or allowed to run to, I suspect the former. Reading the instructions and following them transformed it from a plastic log into a good performer.
Q Is your pivot line tied to the deck eye? Mine goes from the boom fitting, through the deck Eye and back to the starboard cleat by the mast, where it is made off. I took the 12mm to be the length of string from fitting to deck eye. Should I feel the need to change things, I will use tiger's tip of clamping the line under the cleat.
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I took the 1.5cm shown on my manual to mean the distance between the deck and the bottom of the boom..(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk303/dekanblu/VicJibdetail.jpg)
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Page 15, fig 33 refers. There should not be a snap between the forward boom fitting and the line going to the deck fitting. It should just be boom fitting, line through deck fitting, then back to the cleat.
The running line should through its deck fitting, through the snap on the rear jib boom fitting, then via the adjusting bowsie to terminate at a snap in the forward boom fitting. These two alterations will allow the correct height and close hauling, as opposed to the arrangement in your picture.
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I concur with Malcolm's description of the jib boom arrangement, that's how mine is fixed up too. I bought my kit from a well-known 'yottie' who also made sails for model yachts, called Brian Wiles. Sadly he has passed away now, but I purchased a set of sails as well as the kit from him, all work superbly. He also advocated using ties for the mainsail as opposed to the supplied rings, all of which I heeded, and have had no regrets. (I still couldn't sail my 'Vic' as well as Brian sailed his though!)
Danny
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Sorry, but I cant see what difference it makes running the line to the jib front boom ring from the cleat, other than the height of the boom is adjustable without having to replace the front loop cord...
The two clip jib line does provide for a slightly larger bowsie adjustment range. As to it having any affect on the height of the rear of the boom, I don't see how there can be any difference .
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When it is actually rigged according to the instructions, it will work as intended. Ad-lib rigging, unless you know more than the designer, or are very lucky, will not.
The changes that I made to mine followed several years' experience involving designing and sailing my own, observing others, and listening carefully to advice.
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Malcolm, If I have problems I will put it back to standard.. :-))But I only copied the best sailing Vic I have seem 8)
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Dekan
You have not rigged it as standard, and then complained it didn't sail well.
The advantage of rigging her in a standard way is that it removes all the variables when problem solving.
People have been trying to give you advice, and some of it you have casually rejected. This will cause people to stop offering you advice, not a good result for you.
just my 2 cents
Mark
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No it did not sail well when the jib was rigged as "standard"
It has improved since some of the other Vic skippers at the pond I sail on have shown an interest :-)) But I would still like to get the jib working better.
I am not ignoring anybody's advice. I am just trying to make sense of it; when I see most of the other Vic skippers I sail with have alltered their jib rigging
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Hi Dekan,
I.ve been reading this thread with intrest, we race the Victoria at my club with great success.
These are also a class yacht in Canada, Austrailia, New Zeland to name a few. For all your answers and go faster tips, mods etc please visit the "Victoria Resource Center" at www.victorarc.org
If you click onto building, then click onto okangan model sailling association they have a vast source of infomation with pictures.
There are some very simple,cost nothing mods showing. You should find all what you need.
Hope this is of some help and have fun with your yacht, it is possible to make these sail very well with some very cheap hop ups.
Regards, Gary.
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Hi Gary I have been looking at the Vic tune up sites.... but most of these sites advise you to throw away everything above the deck, and heavily modify everything below the deck! :}
As this is my first yacht,I'm not quite ready for such drastic steps. O0
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As this is my first yacht
Practice. Then more practice. Lots and lots of practice.
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Malcolm I'm doing my best :-))
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Try asking one of the more successful racers at your pond to sail your Vic for a few minutes.
Trying to tune it with little experience doesn't tell you much.
The problem could be compounded by the way you are sailing it.
I had a member sail my boat and a few tweaks recommended by him and some sheeting tips
for me worked wonders.
Don;t forget though, everyone has their own ideas on tuning so look for the fastest driver on the pond!
Yours Aye
Ned
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Yes I'm doing just that....but none of the really fast skippers sail Vics .....only Micro Magic, IOM or bigger.