Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: andywright on January 19, 2007, 09:15:49 pm
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Broke her back, now being towed to Lyme Bay.
Photos here.
www.premar-atlantique.gouv.fr/galeries/MSC-Napoli/07LVC017NC
The operation to salvage the vessel has now started and the ship may be towed to Lyme Bay.
After discussions between the French Authorities and the UKs Secretary of States representative Robin Middleton and salvors, the decision was taken to tow the vessel to a position in Lyme Bay as the preferred destination where a salvage operation can take place in relative safety.
The Abeilles Bourbon from France is towing the vessel and the MCA Tug, Anglian Princess is escorting the tow.
Smit International, the contracted salvors are mobilising maritime salvage equipment from Holland to Lyme Bay.
The vessel is carrying 2,394 containers; only a small proportion of the cargo is classed as hazardous according to the International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code. These products consist of some retail perfumes, industrial and agricultural chemicals. This is a typical loading pattern for this type of ship.
Robin Middleton, Secretary of States Representative for Salvage and Intervention and leading the MCA Salvage Response Unit said
I have been working closely with the French Government and the salvors to carry out a risk assessment of the various options available to us.
The most favorable option is to tow the vessel to a sheltered location where the salvage operation to remove the containers or make out temporary repairs can be carried out.
The Maritime and Coastguard Agency Counter Pollution and Response branch will be working with the Salvage Consortium and other agencies to minimise any risk of pollution or damage to the environment.
The Marine Accident Investigation Branch is investigating this incident as the vessel is registered within the UK.
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The Napoli apparently run onto a reef in the far east in 2001 when she was called the CMA CGM Normandie. Got stuck there for 60 days before being salvaged. Her engineroom was damaged and flooded and she was towed to Vietnam for repairs. Considering she has had a failure in the very same area of hull that was damaged in the grounding it looks to me that the repairs were not of high enough strength and quality.
You get the work you pay for I guess !!!
Davie
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could the fact that she ran aground before, damaging her hull be a factor in her keel breaking in the storms?
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I didn't know that, but I bet they will have a b****y good look at the repair. vIt must be a factor, there is also heavy loading aft , with all those containers and the accomadation housing.
Andy
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I bet Smit International will be sending the Old Man a calender this year ::) ::)
I didn't know MSC had ships under the red ensign, or was that a slip of our knowledgeable news media ??
Wasn't the list of nationalities on board a sad joke ? Unless you happen to be in the same situation on your ship of course !
MikeK
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https://exchange.dnv.com/Exchange/Main.aspx?EXTool=Vessel&VesselID=24568 <---m/v MSC Napoli is definately british flag.
this https://exchange.dnv.com/exchange/main.aspx lists a lot of british flagged ships
so at least we still have some ships out there that are uk registered
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Thanks for that Ghost, all the MSC ships I used to see were usually Italian flagged, of course she may have been using the uk as a flag of convenience - perish the thought ;D ;D
MikeK
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On one of the shipping websites I use they say that MSC stands for "More S*** Coming" !!!!!
Seems the ships are run to the bare minimum of maintenance if that rumour is right !!!
She's been deliberately ran ashore to try and stop her breaking up in the gale force winds right now , I think the coastguards taken the view that as a ship this one is finished and they're just trying to prevent pollution and trying to save the cargo.
Davie
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well if more S*** coming is true, with the ship holed, that may be a very real problem, lets hope her diesel bunkers dont rupture
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A big cargo ship like that will almost certainly be using a high density IFO 380 fuel and could well be carrying a couple of thousand tons of the stuff. This is basically the crap that is left after all the good stuff has been taken out of the crude so even more difficult to deal with, especially as the SG will be very close to 1 so the stuff will not even want to float very readily.
It could be an environmental disaster of the tanks rupture.
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Its usually top priority getting bunkers off, And a ship would usually be anchored off until bunkers are removed, but I think this one is too far gone. Trinity House Vessel Patricia on her way to lay buoys for a 500m exclusion zone. The bunkers will be a sod to pump off because they will be cold.
Andy
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http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-press-releases?id=7E93C1785D5C985C&m=1&y=2007
Black Rock, Crescent Shgipping tanker will take bunkers off.
Andy
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It will indeed be very difficult to pump. Fuel of that quality should be at 40 deg C just to pump it and those tanks will be stone cold by now
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isnt the fuel heated in the tanks to something like 120c just to get it to burn in the engines?
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Normaslly yes, but she has had no power for 3 days now.
I used to skipper a bunkering tanker and we had steam coils to keep the cargo pumpable.
Andy
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Just seen on the 10pm news ship is breaking up containers washed up on the beaches oil spilt into the sea all the greenies will now be wetting themselves,allong the lines of oh what an ecological disaster,we said it would happen,wouldnt happen if they went by railroad etc sados or what
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This was her this morning
(http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/343484.jpg)
and this is another MSC ship that broke in half just forrard of the Bridge ( MSC Carla seen Docking under tow at Las Palmas after breaking in two near Azores in November 1997 , the bow section sank just off Madeira whilst under tow to Gijon )
(http://media.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/343474.jpg)
Davie
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that ship that broke in 2, i wander how the captain explained it to his boss
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I wonder if, without thinking, the Old Man sent Harry Tate forr'd to drop the hook next morning ;D ;D
Davie Tait, you could maybe make a couple of bob with the BBC as your information on here is about two days ahead of theirs ie you told us about the first grounding ages before they mentioned it and there must be a story in MSC cornering the market in snapped box boats ;D ;D
MikeK
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isnt the fuel heated in the tanks to something like 120c just to get it to burn in the engines?
If it is IFO 380, which I would expect it to be, depending on it's viscosity you could be heating it to anything between 120 to 145 degrees C before it goes into the engines. Pumping temp is usually quoted as 45 deg C.
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I didn't know anything until I had an Email from some of the guys on another shipping website I contribute to lol.
As for the BBC well they have used around 20 of my Fishing Boat photo's over the last 6 years Brothers BF138 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/5039834.stm) this photo raised £200 for the RNLI as it was used in a lot of the print media too , Harvester PD (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4407118.stm) , Rosemount PD313 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/6262449.stm) , Border Heather , tanker (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/6203836.stm) , Arcana BF533 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/5360012.stm) , Sovereign BF380 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4539744.stm) , Zenith BF106 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4419828.stm) , Progress FR103 (http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1426/si/progress) , Audacous BF83 (http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1093/si/audacious/what/allfields) and quite a few more.
I donate any money to the RNLI.
Davie
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Re the MSC Carla, you would have thought they wopuld take two halves to the same place so they could rejoin them!!! Matbe they made two ships from one, new front for one new back for 'tuther'!!! (t'other!!)
Andy
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News reporters make me laugh, one was out in a 30foot boat "barely equipped for this sort of weather", there is no way I would go out in a boat barely equipped, mine have to be VERY EQUIPPED!!, another report said 2,250 containers could be washed off into the sea, they forget 2/3rds are below decks, how will they get washed off!! Police are warning of dangerous cargo to frighten the looters away!! I agree some is hazardous.
Andy
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News reporters make me laugh, one was out in a 30foot boat "barely equipped for this sort of weather", there is no way I would go out in a boat barely equipped, mine have to be VERY EQUIPPED!!, another report said 2,250 containers could be washed off into the sea, they forget 2/3rds are below decks, how will they get washed off!! Police are warning of dangerous cargo to frighten the looters away!! I agree some is hazardous.
Andy
Couldn't agree more about the reporter in the 'barely equipped for this sort of weather' boat, but that's probably a 'behind the newsdesk' viewpoint, the professional seafarers involved almost certainly had a very different opinion. Police have cordoned off the beach to try to stop looters, though apparently quite a lot of stuff has been spirited away already. One group are reported to have salvaged at least one new and almost undamaged BMW motorbike. Some news reports claimed that the ship was carrying a cargo of 'sulphuric acid and other deadly chemicals' but now it's being said that only one or two of the 2000+ containers had stuff like that inside them. It's always the same, something appears in the media that you have some knowledge of, and they almost always get it badly wrong, which makes me wonder about all the rest of the 'news'.
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The more hazardous containers will have been deck stow by law, with the less dangerous stuff below decks - as per instructions in the haz. 'blue books' so I suppose the coppers are right scaring people off. In the old days of Cornish wreckers the most hazardous cargo was likely to be brandy ;D ;D not like the weird and wonderful rubbish we need to live nowadays :( :(
MikeK
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Well yes, I suppose that a BMW motorbike could be classed as a 'hazardous item' if it got into the wrong hands, but seriously, surely it isn't always possible to re-arrange containers at each port of call so that the most hazardous stuff stays topsides? What happens when the nastier stuff has been loaded first, surely it must remain deep inside the hull?
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No, the cargo is loaded so that the next port is always 'get attable', usually in columns. If you do put stuff overstowing the next ports cargo you are not a popular bloke as the restowing costs plenty (occasionaly you have no option) A bit like a three dimensional puzzle as besides keeping it in the right order you have to keep the ship trimmed, stable with no bad bending/shearing moments (mmm ?) and the cargo accessable to as many gantries at the same time ;D. With the big box boats it is all computerised anyway but there are strict guidelines as to what part of the ship hazardous can be stowed and no way can a 'on deck only' box find itself moving below. That's why I used to be on film stars wages -not !!
MikeK
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I wonder if that BMW bike will end up on Ebay, and what the reserve will be!
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I wonder if that BMW bike will end up on Ebay, and what the reserve will be!
I think that whoever got that bike is going to find it difficult to enjoy their find. It isn't a case of 'finders keepers', legally it's salvage, which means that although it still belongs to its original owner, the finder has to fill in a salvage form, Customs & Excise were handing them out like confetti on the beach, and negotiate a price with the legal owner to return it, which could be a fair amount in this case. The VIN number or whatever, will pretty soon be on the DVLC computer, so no-one could legally register it. Apparently, most of the people on that beach were taking away things like packs of nappies, and I can't see anyone making much of a fuss about that, especially once they'd been used. Could be a bit different with a BMW bike though.
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You could try getting an old one from a scrap yard and swapping identities (I don't think there will be many of that model scrapped yet !) We were once tied up at a lay-by berth in the Manchester Ship Canal next to a Fiat holding car park, when they had just brought out that little sports car (long time ago now) We were admiring one when a delivery driver came past and said something to the effect that if we dropped a driver a few bob and the same with the gatekeeper we/I could borrow the trade plates, have one away home overnight, and be back to the ship next morning. Didn't do it, of course (honest ::) ::) ) When we were discussing 'what if' we came up with exactly the same problem with the DVLA that anmo mentioned. You would constantly on edge in case you incurred too close an interest of the law when driving it. Having said that, the driver said it as if it was not a novel idea so maybe there are cars disappearing from the vast car holding parks all the time with organised crime supplying forged paperwork, but that's getting off topic ;D ;D
MikeK
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The more hazardous containers will have been deck stow by law, with the less dangerous stuff below decks - as per instructions in the haz. 'blue books' so I suppose the coppers are right scaring people off.
MikeK
I'm quite happy to take your word for all that, but last night on the TV news, they told us that the most hazardous containers were stowed deep inside, and not on the deck. Have the BBC got it wrong? They showed a cutaway of the ship showing exactly where they claimed the nasty stuff was hiding.
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The nastier the stuff is the more accessable it has to be in case of just such accidents, with the general exception of stuff that goes bang when wet ! I forget how many volumes of the 'blue book' there are (around 9) but every last bit of hazardous cargo is listed in them and precise instructions on where they can be stowed and also how far away the minimum distance from cargo of other different haz classes is allowed. As a generalisation, the nastier it is usually means on deck stowage. If you had a lot of haz of different classes it could be a pain in the backside juggling everything
MikeK
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I remember watching michael palin "around the world in 80 days", the neptune diamond had a container blow up!
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MSC-Napoli-bargains-hot-from-Branscombe-Beach_W0QQitemZ150084355187QQihZ005QQcategoryZ1469QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
;D ;D ::)
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See Ebay's removed most of the advetised Napoli stuff as they have to. Do the people doing this not realise they HAVE to register it with the Receiver of Wrecks , wait a full year before the stuff can be sold and if they don't they can ( and going by this mornings press briefings WILL ) be found and prosecuted !!!
Now if there had been a container of big model boat kits on there............. ;D :o ;D
Davie :D :D
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I should think that any of the stuff with electricals in it is likely to be pretty useless after immersion in salt water - "nice BMW bike, new, just needs rewiring....."
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I think the bike must have been in a sealed container.
On the news last night the guy was wheeling it up the tracks with the head light on and working.
Could just be a TV thing I long ago realised that you don't believe anything you see on TV.
Colin H.
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As someone else on the Forum said....you cannot trust much of what journalists say because the subs and the editors want it fast and simple. The better journalist may possibly find the facts and attempt to understand them but when it gets to the editing stage....forget it.
I long since decided "If they can get so much of what I know about so badly wrong, how can I believe any of the stuff they tell me about subjects on which I know little or nothing"?
Roger in France.
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it has to be said thank god this ship wasnt the victim.
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Or a liquid gas carrier ! If they float they can also sink, they havn't built the unsinkable one yet, despite a few claims otherwise ;D ;D
MikeK
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Or a liquid gas carrier ! If they float they can also sink, they havn't built the unsinkable one yet, despite a few claims otherwise ;D ;D
MikeK
Why don't shipowners fill nooks & crannies with some expanded polystyrene like modellers do? That should stop them from sinking.
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I think if they did that, to get sufficient buoyancy, they would have to fill the cargo spaces with foam and put the cargo in the nooks and crannies ;D ;D
MikeK
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they could of course try building the ship out of blue core, then hey presto, unsinklable ship!
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Or ice;
http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/info_sheets_Habbakkuk.htm
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Ghost in Shell,
You are correct there, mind you the waste nuclear waste ships are well built and good ships in a seaway.
Andy
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i did have a chance to see Pintail in the flesh, (that pic isnt mine, its a commercial one), i was surprise on how big she isnt
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They don;t need to be big, but they have to be sea worthy, they regularly do Japan and back.
Andy
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unlike the napoli, the PNTL ships have 2 props 2 rudders, with electric drive on the props, and 2 diesel engines with a cross over.
http://www.pntl.co.uk/pntl-fleet/ship-tour/
interesting ships :)
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I didn't realize that she carried 2400 containers.
Wouldn't they be better to build them wider than present.
The longer they are the more they are prone to snapping their backs.
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I didn't realize that she carried 2400 containers.
Wouldn't they be better to build them wider than present.
The longer they are the more they are prone to snapping their backs.
Actually the more often you run them aground the more likely they are to break thier backs!!
The required amount of strength can be built into any ship design to make it as safe as you want it but there will always be compromises depending on your acceptable level of risk.
Unfortunately you can't design them to withstand sitting on a rock and watching the shear force and bending moments slowly going through the roof as the water level goes down.
From my own reading of MAIB (Marine Accident Investigation Branch) reports I would say 90% of marine casualties are human error related. It is beleived that this one was as a result of poor repairs completed after another grounding of the same ship two years ago.
Maybe they didn't like this one!
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id also imagine that a long thin ship is easier to push throuh the water due to less resistance at the bow
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I see they got the last container up...... BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6665465.stm)
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Then there were two...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6900000/newsid_6908600/6908645.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&nol_storyid=6908645&news=1 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6900000/newsid_6908600/6908645.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&nol_storyid=6908645&news=1)