Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Detail Work, Rigging, Fittings, Figures Etc. => Topic started by: boatmadman on January 20, 2007, 10:38:48 PM

Title: Rivets
Post by: boatmadman on January 20, 2007, 10:38:48 PM
Hi,

Any ideas on how to simulate rivets please?

Thanks in advance

Ian
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: gingyer on January 20, 2007, 11:13:19 PM
Hi,
To simulate rivets on a hull or superstructure there is 2 methods
I Know of

1) PVA Glue applied in dots using a syringe and needle or a cocktail stick

2) small round headed pins, drill a hole and glue them in

Both methods are very time consuming hope this helps

Colin
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 20, 2007, 11:24:59 PM
You cvan get them from Precision Controlls, but if you want a big bag of them I got one.
I couldnt face all that drilling!!!

Bob
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: RickF on January 21, 2007, 12:20:12 AM
There is a third way, if you are applying plating. You get (or make) a thing called a pounce wheel, which is like a clock gear on the end of a stick, then run this along the back of the plating. It makes a row of raised dots on the front. I've tried it, without much success, I'm afraid, but it is supposed to work.

Rick
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: bogstandard on January 21, 2007, 07:54:05 AM
Slaters Plastikard also do sheets of rivet strips, never tried them as I always use dressmakers pins or PVA using a syringe.
Slaters also do all your treadplate requirements
http://www.slatersplastikard.com/Plastikard/slaters%20embossed_plastikard1.htm
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: White Ensign on January 23, 2007, 10:05:18 AM
I can recommend RickF`s tip- and have lead it a bit further. As this wheel (which is used by tailors) might be too wide I have bought some stainless-steel gears and pressed them on a rod- then rounded the teeth on a lathe and made such a stick on my own where I can change the gears for "riveting" about dia and distance for the wanted scale.

Jörg
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: MikeK on January 23, 2007, 11:28:18 AM
Heard the dress makers wheel works on thin plasticard plate as mentioned above, never tried it though. Tell you what DOESN'T WORK, though. Scratch built 1:24 Will Everard, thin ply planking then covered that with thin ply scale plating to help waterproofing. Secured each plate by drilling hundreds of holes through plate and planking, then tapping in cocktail sticks and gluing same (one stick cut into four 'rivets') The idea being when dry I would sand down and leave slightly raised rivets. What in fact happened - sanded down and cocktail stick/rivets totally disappeared !! My original theory was that the sticks were hard wood (bamboo I thought) Fact was sticks very soft   >:( >:( Pointless exercise

MikeK
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: tigertiger on January 25, 2007, 03:00:56 AM
I have got some nice brass portholes. What can I use for rivets, appart from the brass pins.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Bunkerbarge on January 25, 2007, 10:29:44 AM
I am currently making a Mountfleet Ben Ain and the first rivet detail I tried was on the fo'c'sle bulkhead.

I particularly wanted to match the bulwark butt straps that were supplied with the kit so I drilled and fit cut down dressmaking pins.  This was very effective but extreemly time consuming.

For the hull I wasn't about to start drilling hundreds of holes to fit pins so I set up a test piece and tried a number of differrent glues, applied as a small blob.  Most of them went flat when dried but the one that remained proud the best was cyano gel.  I did find that if I applied it directly to the fibre glass hull it was absorbed and once again went flat but if I applied a coat of grey primer first (Halfords best) then the gel formed a much more appropriate blob.

I therefore applied a coat of primer to the whole hull and commenced adding the rivet detail to the plate detail already there.  I tried to emulate correct procedures used at the time within the constraints of the plating arrangement already there.  The entire hull took about eight tubes of cyano gel and about a week to do, working a few hours each day.  I lost the will to live more than once but the effect at the end of the day was well worth it.  The hull looks ten times better than it did without the rivets.

Next when it came time to add some rivets to the wheelhouse I couldn't see the point in drilling and adding pins again so I went for the cyano method for the rivets there.

I think one of the most significant aspects of it is to try to carefully consider where joints would be in plating.  Plates at the time of my coaster would usually come as stock 8' x 4' sheets and would usually be joined adjacent to a curved plate.  Scribe the plate lines accordingly and add rivets to either side of the joint.

As for port holes I added rivet blobs around the exterior of the brass tube set into the hull.

Finally it would be common, although not guarranteed, to use flush rivets for decking to prevent tripping so for the decks I used the supplied cartridge paper to create the deck plates.  When I had cut the plate to size I went around the edge very gently with a sharpened peice of brass tube and created the flush rivet detail.  It took a while to get the pressure of the hammer exactly right as not enough and I didn't get the impression but too much and I cut a hole!!  When I had done the edge I glued them down in an appropriate pattern.  You can't see the flush rivets much but when the deck is painted and a dirty wash applied I am hoping the detail will stand out very effectively.

I hope this generates some ideas for you.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: tigertiger on January 25, 2007, 10:58:34 AM
great hull detail.
You can be well pleased
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on January 25, 2007, 11:15:50 AM
Any chance of some pictures of the steam plant please.    Peter
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Bunkerbarge on January 25, 2007, 11:43:00 AM
Thanks for the comments guys.  Here are a couple of shots of the steam plant going together as well as a couple of her sea trials.

I have also written a build thread for another forum here:

http://www.scale-models.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1711
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: boatmadman on January 25, 2007, 03:03:42 PM
wow, great job bunker, lots of rivet(ing?) ideas too.

Ian
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Bunkerbarge on January 27, 2007, 12:34:45 PM
Thanks Ian, even with the pun!!
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: boatmadman on March 01, 2007, 07:14:13 PM
hey Bunker,

I tried the cyano gel suggestion on a test peice,- works great.

One q though, how do you get consistency in the size of the blob? I am using the dispenser that came on the bottle.

Ian
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: White Ensign on March 02, 2007, 09:44:53 AM
Ian, I use to place it with the head of a small tailors-pin.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: justboatonic on March 17, 2007, 08:26:22 PM
A word of warning if using cyano for an hour or so a day. Make sure you wear a mask and \ or a well ventilated room. Cyano fumes are not good for you.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: green-boat on March 18, 2007, 02:46:16 AM
For rivets I use the nails for doll house hinges.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on March 18, 2007, 02:59:47 AM
That Looks excellent,  where do you get them from are they 12th scale  Peter
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: green-boat on March 18, 2007, 03:41:56 AM
Thanks,

They came from my LHS in the 1/12'th scale dollhouse stuff. The head size came out perfect for my 1/32'nd scale C.S.S. Albemarle ironclad, all 5000 of them.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on March 18, 2007, 03:46:56 AM
Have you got a address or web site??

Peter
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: tigertiger on March 18, 2007, 04:49:23 AM
Hi Greenboat

can we see some full views of your boat please?
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Tug on April 06, 2007, 10:15:38 PM
Another plan is to cut card [like postcard] into plate sized pieces,

and after robbing your grannys westminster chimes, inside are the gearwheels various pitches, run a straight edge along your chosen rivet line (back to front of course) double rows offset...............then paste on to your boat, you even get sliide tiz a piece of pizza.

Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: RickF on April 07, 2007, 08:27:19 PM
MikeK,

Just revisited this thread and realised that you mentioned plating "Will Everard". Do you have any details on the plating of a steel barge? I'd be very grateful if you could point me in the right direction.

Rick F
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Daryl on April 07, 2007, 08:56:39 PM
Hi Rick,
Try www.thamesbarge.org.uk  or on Yahoo groups AMBO Association of Model Barge Owners. If you Google Thames Barge Portlight it should show pictures of the rivited hull. The last time I spotted her she was at Maldon in a dull pink colour awaiting restoration.

Hope this helps

Daryl
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: RickF on April 08, 2007, 12:00:24 AM
Thanks Daryl. Being an idle *** I was rather hoping someone had done the work already and would come up with a nice complete shell expansion drawing!

Rick
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Daryl on April 08, 2007, 10:39:43 AM
Hi Rick,
If you go on Yahoo Groups and look at the AMBO site Association of Model Barge Owners and contact Richard Chesney he may help as they have got drawings and one member sells a 1/24th scale hull with plating detail.

Daryl
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Voyager on April 09, 2007, 12:36:09 PM
Hannants models shops do a pack of moulded plastic rivets that you simply cut of the plastic spru. If i remember rightly, each pack somes with aprox 300 of them, different size moulded plastic rivets are available. The rivets are ideal for adding to plasticard superstructure as you don't need to drill holes, and bottled plastic glue is all you need to fix them on. I would still use metal pin heads for the hull though!

When i get more time i will hunt down my pack and post a picture on here.

Regards: Voyager
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: RickF on April 09, 2007, 01:48:14 PM
Thanks Voyager,

Had a look on Hannents website, but can only find resin rivets to fit your description. Made by Calibre 35 and priced at £7.35. Are these the ones?

Rick
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Voyager on April 09, 2007, 02:30:26 PM
Hi Rick,

Just found my box, those are the one's alright! My box doesn't say anything about being made of resin or plastic? Looks like plastic to me, but i could be wrong. I've not got around to using mine yet, but they look the part (No, i'm not Irish!)

Regards: Voyager

Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Hobie21 on April 10, 2007, 05:22:59 PM
Hi There,
Vario Helicopters make rivet strips; they work real well.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Tom Eccles on June 13, 2007, 07:57:16 PM
Just checking out this thread and saw the photos placed by Bunkerbarge. This looks great! I am shortly to do some "riveting" on my Mountfleet Cruiser. I think these ideas are very helpful.

Many thanks
Tom
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Bunkerbarge on June 14, 2007, 12:47:39 AM
Glad to be of some help Tom.  The thing with the Ben Ain was that the outside of the bulwark butt straps had rivet detail but the rest of the hull only had the plate detail moulded in.  Consequently I just had to finish the job.

You will be very pleased with the overall effect and a carefull weathering job will highlight the rivets even more and hopefully look the part.

...and don't forget to prime the hull first otherwise the cyano will not bead, instead it will soak into the fibreglass surface.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Tom Eccles on June 14, 2007, 07:55:39 PM
Hi Bunkerbarge,

Thanks for your reply.

Just to clarify things for a rather stupid person (ME!)

What type of primer did you use and,

Does cyano gel have a trade name and where can I get some??????

Many thanks
Tom

Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Subculture on June 15, 2007, 11:31:23 AM
Loctite 454
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Tom Eccles on June 15, 2007, 04:55:53 PM
Hi Subculture,

Many thanks

Tom
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Bunkerbarge on June 16, 2007, 02:22:31 AM
The primer was Halfords best grey primer in a spray tin and the gel was from B&Q, I couldn't tell you the manufacturer but it was the only Cyano gel they had.

The combination worked well for me.
Title: Re: Rivets
Post by: Tom Eccles on June 18, 2007, 01:05:21 PM
Brilliant!

Thanks for that
Tom