Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: meatbomber on August 27, 2010, 10:31:19 am

Title: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on August 27, 2010, 10:31:19 am
Hello shipmates :)

i`ve started another square rigger model. his time i felt it`s time to start with a type of build i have not tried and even dreaded before... a planked hull.
i didn`t feel confident enough to start soemthing completely from scratch so i was looking for a suitable static model kit for a conversion. I have for a long time fallen in love with the british Cruizer class Brig sloops, and lookign for a kit of it i not only found a Cruizer by Lotika Ltd but also teh Ship rigged HMS Snake, which shares the same hull and only differs in the rig. Hard decision... i love them both, but the final decision was for Snake as the kit had been recently updated.
When i got teh kit i was very impressed with teh quality and comepleteness of it`s content :)

From Jotika:
"The Snake class were ship rigged sloops. This class was very business like with a flush deck and nine cannons or carronades each side, they were very fast and seaworthy. As originally built Snake had a full ordinance of 32 pounder carronades. Carronades replaced the carriage guns because at close quarters the short range carronades proved devastating to their opponents. Class dimensions were: length 100’; breadth 30’6”; displacement 382 tons with a crew of 121."

The Scale of 1/64 allows for a model that should be well suitable for a RC conversion. a direct scale down of the 382ton displacement gives an estimate displacement of the model of 1,4kg, which should be doable... with 200g of RC, 500g of ballast and 700g for the ship.
The RC side of the ship will be 3 channels, a rudder servo that will be hidden under the small poop deck, and 2 sail winches in the hold.
I´d like to run the headsails and foremast square sail braces of teh forward winch and the main and mizzen braces as well as the spanker sheet from the second winch. Currently i have got 2 GWS single turn winches, which if possible i`d like to stretch with a servo stretcher to several turns... to get more travel, if that doesn`t work (can only be mechanical reason inside but i doubt it) i have to look for other winches or maybe go to servo arms.

now here`s a question for Jimmy james and all the rest of you guys :)
I´d liek to use not onyl braces but maybe also bowlines for the squares, in teh style of jimmies system on Firedragon. Jimmy do you have an idea on how to incorporate that with below deck winches instead of above deck capstans ?

well the answer to this has some time... i`m currently doing the second layer of planking on the hull so until i get to the point of radio installation it will be some more time ;) 
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: pugwash on August 27, 2010, 11:00:38 am
Looking pretty tidy so far - keep up the good work.

Geoff
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on September 01, 2010, 01:34:53 pm
stbd side 2nd planking completed.. on to port side
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on September 02, 2010, 09:06:21 pm
Phillip
 Nice model  To make her sail you will need a false keel    As for Bowlines the simple way is from the crows foot on the starb'd side (Fore topsail ) through a block lashed to the forestay (Topmast) and back to the outer end of the foreyard on the port side You can also run it down to the port tack of the fore course instead of the yard
Jimmy
(http://s2.postimage.org/MqA8J.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsMqA8J)

Not a very good diagram but I did it in a hurry ,,,,,if you want I can do a better one

Freebooter
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on September 02, 2010, 09:33:00 pm

(http://s3.postimage.org/mY0Qr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqmY0Qr)

(http://s2.postimage.org/MwriS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsMwriS)

This is the way I rig the crows feet
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on September 17, 2010, 12:50:57 pm
got the other side done and also the bullwark inner planking done. Now it`s filling all the gaps with wallnut filler and sanding.
I made some floating test in teh tub to see how accurate my displacement estimates were and it seems i gained about 100g so i have about a total displacement of 1500g :) The hull now at this stage already weights 440g but thank god only teh deck planking to be finished, then pretty much all the structural weight is there. How much the masts and deck furniture are going to weight i don`t know yet..
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Nordsee on September 17, 2010, 01:40:44 pm
Lovely work! But I cannot imagine how you are going to get all the RC gear and winches inside!
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on September 17, 2010, 02:45:45 pm
Yea that will be interesting won`t it :D

it`s only 2 winches installed in the hull, one under each hatch and the rudder servo will sit niext to teh tiller under the poop deck. i`m thinking of maybe adding 2 small servos (8g each) for the Jib sheets and the spanker sheet, but that depends on the weight when i have all the structure completed. 
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on September 17, 2010, 07:54:26 pm
I'm Looking forward to seeing the results
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on September 24, 2010, 11:43:24 pm
got some more done with teh hull... she got the main wales and a bit of paint. m also starting to install the coppering
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on September 29, 2010, 01:04:29 pm
got some more coppering done. it´s quite an effort, but i hope teh end result is worth it : )
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: dreadnought72 on September 29, 2010, 01:39:54 pm
Looking great!

If this is a success, I can imagine a fleet of 1/64th scale Nelsonian ships would look awesome. O0

Andy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: pugwash on September 29, 2010, 01:58:09 pm
Very impressed - especially the copper sheet. How is it done and how have you made the sheets - is it real
copper or the stick on copper sheet like the tape you put round plant pots to ward of the slugs.
Geoff
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on September 29, 2010, 02:15:06 pm
Thanks guys :)

There is real copper plate that comes with teh kit, 0,15mm thick But i didn`t use the plates from the kit due to weight considerations. Searching for a lighter substitute i finaly found an aluminium foil that is copper coatedand has teh same thickneshe. I tested with 30 plates of both material and found the aluminium foil to be only 30% of the weight ! So instead of 115g of weight only about 35g at the end.
I made a jig with 10 of the original copper plates that i use to print through the nail pattern onto strips of the alu foil. goes pretty well. Afterwards i found self adhesive copper tape of exactly teh right width that would have made installing the plates far quicker and would have spared me the need to cut strips from the sheet at the same width  %) but with the CA i use to stick them on now i`m at least sure they are going to stay on.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: pugwash on September 29, 2010, 02:47:04 pm
Thanks for the explanation.
Geoff
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on September 30, 2010, 09:17:16 pm
A picture is worth a Thousand words
 Well done Phillip
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on October 02, 2010, 12:09:30 am
I completed the first half of the coppering... on to the next 500 plates...
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on October 02, 2010, 08:24:00 pm
Coppering can be a real pain in the neck to do, but when you are finished it looks superb, and when it starts to weather and turn green there is no hull finish like it
 I used to copper my hulls years ago but no longer have the patients, but I applaud any one who will do it
Jimmy   :-))
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on October 08, 2010, 05:12:27 pm
it IS a lot of work i have to say.. but ilike the end result :) coppering finished. pending clean-up of ca spills and where my sticky fingers took teh copper off
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Edward Pinniger on October 18, 2010, 06:58:01 pm
The coppering looks very impressive! I'll have to look out for some of that copper aluminium foil myself, previously I've used real copper tape which is rather expensive and, as you say, heavy.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on October 18, 2010, 07:03:10 pm
Jerry Tod on RCG had a great idea of using aluminium tape (speed tape or instant airplane in aviation) it sticks extremely well, and is light, and after you`re finished you spray it copper... seems to be to me the cheapes and easiest sollution! i`ve got 2 1/24 scale models on the stocks as well that will need coppering and i`m wondering if just making teh plates with no fake nail patterns isn`t already enough
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Little Rascal on October 18, 2010, 07:46:20 pm
That's bloomin' gorgeous!

Nicely done mb!
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: tigertiger on October 19, 2010, 12:24:28 am
Great job.

Question, did copper bottoms turn green after a while? Just curious is all.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on October 19, 2010, 09:51:59 am
They should, but it would be a pretty mottled green i guess
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on October 20, 2010, 10:14:23 pm
Did copper bottoms turn green?......The answer is yes...However in the North Atlantic it used to take several months.... in Tropic waters it took less time to turn green
 the shade of green depended on the grade of copper and if it was wet or dry...Ive served on 2 vessel (Both large sailing vessels) one of them was freshly coppered and just out of dry dock when I joined the sheets above and just below the water line and most of the plates on the bow had to be replaced, this had to be done every 2 or 3 years as this area gets the most wear and tear, other plates would last 4,5,or 6 years but it was inspected at least once a year..
 Jimmy
Freebooter
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: tigertiger on October 21, 2010, 02:54:47 am
Hi Jimmy
Do you have any pictures or tales from these days on the boats?

If you have a few it might be worth another thread. I would certainly be interested in reading about life aboard sailing ships.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on October 21, 2010, 08:57:43 pm
Sorry TT
Any pictures I had are long gone...that was back in the mid 60's in the Caribbean when there used to be a few small square riggers and topsail schooners still in Trade moving cargo and passangers around the islands ... Fond memories...
Freebooter :((
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on October 24, 2010, 10:45:14 pm
Hello shipmates. I`m currently dawdeling around getting to start teh deck planked. Does anyone have a good way of doing it without permanently closign teh hatches ;) i`d be obliged for any tip..
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: tigertiger on October 26, 2010, 12:14:10 pm
You can plank the hatches separately. You still get the cut line though.
You can then screw the hatch down (visible) or trust in magnets.

I did this on my model. You can see the covered hatch, below/around the wheel housing in the pic.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on October 26, 2010, 06:44:10 pm
Started deck planking.. i painted one side of the planks black to simulate the caulking and now find my decks will need a lot of holystoning before shes presentable to the admiral ;)
Unfortunately the cruiser hull doesn`t have much in the way of deck furniture that is wide enough to have hidden deck hatches, so i`ll just have to live with the cut lines... but then the model is small and a few meters out on the pond they should be prety much invisible.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on November 01, 2010, 08:43:36 pm
Phillip
I just mark the edges of my deck planks with a large black waterproof felt tip marking pen.
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on November 01, 2010, 10:35:03 pm
Yea i have read this from a lot of people.. it should be the method of choice and i`ll do that with the next deck :) i`ve finished so far 3/4 of the deck planking and its quite passable now  i think
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on November 05, 2010, 08:28:49 pm
The deck Looks ok to me ... Did you get the info on reefing?
or shall I re send it .
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on November 05, 2010, 08:33:54 pm
Yea i got it thanks a lot :)
Saya Jimmy on your fore bowlines and also on the main bowlines, is there an elastic somewhere ? i`m asking because the tops`travel a shorter radius than say the courses, and you pull on both the same distance.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on November 06, 2010, 10:47:31 pm
Phillip
no elastic needed ,the crows feet are self adjusting and you need the yards braced in a spiral any way
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on November 07, 2010, 08:38:34 am
Ok, as soon as I'm getting started with the masts ill make a mockup to try that all out :)
I've got a bit more done the deck and focs'l as well as poop platforms are finished and the cappingrail is installed. Both platforms van be removed.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on November 09, 2010, 08:13:16 pm
She's looking very good ,Phillip
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on November 16, 2010, 10:05:24 pm
got a bit more done today.. the head rails and rest have been installed.
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on December 07, 2010, 06:55:47 pm
After a while of inactivity, working mostly on my and my girlfriends helicopter fleet i got a few more things done.
I`ve made up all the deck hatches and gratings, companionway and the capstan. Next will be a few more items on the outside of teh hull, channels and pinrails then i`ll have to setup the assembly line for the carronades :)
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on December 08, 2010, 01:22:46 am
Shes comming on very nicely Phillip
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on December 08, 2010, 09:43:42 am
Thankls Jimmy, but it`s amazing how time consuming some of teh tasks are... i made up the shot garlands that border the gratings yesterday and it kept me busy for pretty much the whole evening... at that rate of build  i`ll be pressed to see her maidened before the NEXT winter :D
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on December 12, 2010, 02:36:31 pm
You'll manage old son .  :-))  O0
Are those Oar ports I see between the gun ports???
 Jimmy   :-))
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on December 12, 2010, 02:47:02 pm
yea, apparently the admirality still required sweep ports to be installed at that time.. at 384 tons of burthen  she must have been a beast to row :D makes one wonder where they stowed the sweeps ? They are pretty long and bulky items and the channels don`t offer much space either. Also the boats, as there is no gallows to set them on.. the National Marine Museum has a Crusier Model which is practically the same hull and deck layout and that one has davides on each side of the small poop deck (doesn`t look very good in my oppinion, but fore sure was pretty useful in getting the deck free and enabling boats to be launched quickly
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Jimmy James on December 13, 2010, 09:38:44 pm
It is historically accurate --- smaller ships up to large Frigate size often had portable davits to launch the quarter boats but it wasn't until the late 1700's early 1800's that iron davits started to be introduced,  the dates are hard to pin down as many masters fitted wooden davits themselves at far earlier dates
Jimmy
Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: Greggy1964 on December 14, 2010, 12:24:03 am
Just popped in to read this thread

Tigertiger said
Quote
Question, did copper bottoms turn green after a while? Just curious is all.

Here in Bridlington UK there is a old rudder from an 18th century ship that was trawled up in local trawlers nets.

We have lots of ancient wrecks in the waters of Bridlington bay. O0

Its on display at the bottom of the slip to the harbour.

It still has its hinges and the upper one still has its pintle and bushing which I've twiddled speculatively many times! :o

The bottom hinge is broken at the pintle and I'm betting the ship lost it in a storm as a result!

It still has some of its copper sheathing and its a greeny-grey colour these days though I imagine when it was new it would have been all shiny!

Follow this link below to flickr for a really good photo of it

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/3583768298/#/photos/chairman8/3583768298/in/set-72157608009191915/lightbox/

Title: Re: 1797 HMS Snake 18 gun ship-sloop 1/64 scale
Post by: meatbomber on December 16, 2010, 12:06:28 am
Got some more of teh deck fittings and furniture done. All the bits and jeers, as well as the shot garlands. The Pumps are also finished just not in the pic ;)