Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: Watchleader on August 30, 2010, 03:53:05 PM

Title: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on August 30, 2010, 03:53:05 PM
At long last, (some would say!)
Here is the start of my thread of building the Sailing Barge “Lady Daphne”.
To set the scene:-
I decided about a year ago to build a larger boat, (I had a 37” Perkasa) and also to get back into scale sail. (I had previously scratch built a 1/6 scale Silhouette II. - 36”” loa.)
I “ummed” and “aarred” for a while, as I do!!, then a really good mate (I’ll not name him and embarrass him on here) came back from Blackpool Show and presented me with hull and plans of Lady Daphne.
I was speechless but extremely pleased.  :} :} :}

I was burgled in January this year and my camera and the first pics of the early stages of the build, still on the camera, were lost.  >:-o >:-o
Since then I download to the computer pretty well as soon as the pictures are taken.
The early pics were of nothing more exciting than, hull and plans as received, building the stand, doing ballast tests in the “test tank” to find the water line and gauging what the all up weight should be - 26lbs. (Sorry don’t do metric)
I decided after guidance from many helpful forum members and being directed to various sailing barge sites, to go with the dual option of a ballasted keel or, no keel and internal ballast. So I built and fitted a keel box and also allowed space for internal ballast
I built the stand as a dual height so I would be able to work on the barge with the keel fitted, or without a keel at a much more comfortable height.


The keel box I built from 2mm and 4mm acrylic sheet. The box sides were 2mm and the “box shape” was made from the 4mm. Using a spare piece of 4mm, lightly vasalined to stop sticking as a spacer, the box was glued and then pins superglued in at regular intervals to strengthen. The keel box was positioned and fixed in place then glassed in place.


With a total weight of 26lbs I felt that a keel bulb of 9lbs should be about right, so with a piece of graph paper, info on the density of lead a calculator and pencil, I sketched the shape and size of a cylindrical bomb shaped keel bulb.

More pics and less talking on next post. O0 O0

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: boatmadman on August 30, 2010, 04:33:37 PM

Great work there.

When working on your keel and bulb, you may not want to re invent the wheel :-)), so have a look at these links: - although this work is primarily aimed at aircraft wings, if you use a symmetrical profile, it works well for keels and bulbs. I used a NACA profile for a 1M yacht bulb years ago and it worked very well.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on August 30, 2010, 07:27:56 PM
Thank you Ian for that info and for your comment.
I do try not to re invent the wheel. %) If I did I am sure it would be rather eccentric. O0
I have studied both those sites and Ivor Bittle's site is pretty inspirational and has helped me in the build no end.
The bulb I have made is a pretty good approximation to aerofoil but not mathematically produced.
The bulb and keel are already made and I will post pics etc shortly.  O0
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: bosun on August 30, 2010, 08:49:01 PM
Yo John
Nice to see you,ve made a start on your build thread, looking forward to seeing more of the build, and plenty of pic,s  :-))
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on August 30, 2010, 08:51:33 PM
As a mould for the bulb half I used a breeze block; cheap, easily worked, and pretty heatproof.
I drew around the bulb outline and then using it as a depth gauge removed material out to the line and with the same form.
When I was happy with the shape I used plaster filler to get a smooth surface.  :-))

Anyone trying this method, please remember to allow the breeze block and plaster to thoroughly dry out, before pouring molten lead into it!!  
Could be spectacular and dangerous if you don’t!!! <:( <:(
I set the mould block level in both planes and firmly held, melted sufficient lead (about 5lbs) and poured ‘till just level with block surface.


I did remember to put a thick welding glove on before removing casting from mould. :-)) A gentle shake freed it. :-))


Using two “halves” and a piece of 4mm acrylic as the fin, I clamped them together and drilled through for two 6mm gutter bolts, countersinking both head and nuts into the surface.
Using pieces of 4mm acrylic I filled the gap between the halves, forward and aft of the fin.
Some "easisand" filler and ½ hours sanding, gave me a pretty reasonable shape and finish.  :-) :-)
Finally I fixed 4mm half round on leading and trailing edges of the fin that would be below the hull.


 Next post will be moving to the insde of the hull. O0 O0

Yo Tel
You knew I would start sometime  >>:-( >>:-(
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 02, 2010, 11:42:58 AM
The next step was to fix in the deck edge supports. These were cut and fixed 1/8” below the deck line with easisand filler.
The bottom of the hull when the keel was in place required a series of supports to:
1. Strengthen the hull against any distortion with the keel in place, and
2. Provide support and compartments for servos, radio, ballast etc
These were made from 10 x15mm softwood epoxied down and ‘glassed in place


The deck supports were fitted next using the deck edge supports as a guide and the position of the hatches as main support, fitting other where it was felt further support was required e.g. Doubling the depth of the support each side of the main hatch.
It was also possible then to lock in position, the top of the keel box. Other supports were fitted as support for main mast tabernacle. All these were fitted with epoxy.


Lady Daphne when first built and sailing with a bowsprit and mizzen did not have an auxiliary motor fitted.
Here I decided that I would deviate from the somewhat purist idea and fit an auxiliary motor.
(My sailing skills may not get me out of trouble on a lake with little access or undergrowth on the edges, and the dreaded “lee shore”.) :(( :((
The prop must of necessity be off centre, and ideally for balance, the motor on centre. So this is what I fitted.
When making the prop tube, I fitted an oiling/greasing point and also used oilite bearings.


I fitted the stern post next and constructed the rudder from 1/8” ply with 1/16” sides.  The 1/8” ply was set into a routed groove in the rudder post and then the sides were added. These were sanded to profile and clad with simulated planking plasticard.
The rudder hinges were made from brass sheet with short lengths of brass tube silver soldered on. The three hinge parts on the stern post were fitted using brass pins and epoxy. The hinge pin was kept in place whilst fitting to ensure all lined up correctly. When these were dry I then fitted the three hinge parts to the rudder post, again with the hinge pin fitted.


In the next post, I hope, I'll be moving away from the hull and doing the masts, sprits etc.  :-)) O0
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: jenno on September 02, 2010, 08:03:02 PM
Very nice john,
                        I enjoy a good build thread, gives you a good insight into the model.

                    keep up the good work,

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: tigertiger on September 03, 2010, 05:14:57 AM
Nice job.
Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 04, 2010, 05:55:12 PM

Thanks Bosun, Jenno and Tigertiger for the interest and responses. :-)) :-)) That's what's making these threads fun to do.   :-) :-)

So next, Masts and sprits etc.

I started with a 24” long ash piece,2” x2” and ripped it down on the bandsaw into a series of squares of varying dimensions, 5/16”, 3/8”, ½” and ¾”. 
Also a 30” piece of pine (a nice hard piece – skip wood!) into a 3/8” square.


Using the lathe I turned all to the required form. Whilst I did use the spindle gouge, I am afraid that this exercise used a lot more abrasive paper.  :embarrassed:
After removing the corners with a small plane and starting with a fairly coarse grade of abrasive paper, held in a welding glove, the forms were achieved.  :-))

The main mast however was turned with the spindle gouge as it was sufficiently sturdy not to whip or vibrate excessively. :-)
The top of the lower mast section is square and I cut the form in before turning, to ensure it lined up accurately with the bottom square section.

(You may find it amusing to view my post No 71 in the Modelling Induced Injuries thread at this point)
 <:( <:( <:(  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(:embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :-X :-X :-X


These are the various turned pieces laid out in an “orderly way” just to get an impression, followed by all pieces dyed, using vandyke crystals.



The eagle eyed among you will have noticed main and mizzen tabernacle in the previous photo.

Making these will be part of the next post.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 10, 2010, 10:35:19 PM
Tabernacles aren’t the most interesting items to make.
Or, are they?

I studied what pics I had and looked hard at the plans and made up a main mast tabernacle from 2mm plasticard.
Not very convincing, and certainly not very sturdy. <:( <:(
So next,
I cut the same forms from 1.2mm (18swg) brass, wired together as an assembly and soldered them at the joins.
Not very tidy and definitely not square and true!
I tried the mizzen tabernacle in the same way!    Same result!!! >:-o >:-o >:-o

I was at one of those all too frequent moments in model making when the ideas won’t “gel” {:-{ {:-{
So, with hours/days of frowning and all the muttering under your breath, with SWMBO saying “it’s only a model” :(( :((
I suddenly thought of  "egg boxes"   :kiss: :kiss: 
Slotting together the items for the tabernacles seemed the way to go.  :o :o

A few quick sketches later and I set up the lathe with vertical slide and a 1/16th slitting saw.

The items, when assembled held together beautifully and with some simple fillet soldering  – job done!
Sorry! I was so anxious to get the tabernacle finished forgot take pics. >>:-( >>:-(

I repeated the same method for the mizzen tabernacle.
These are the mizzen parts after using the slitting saw


This is the assembled and unsoldered mizzen tabernacle.
Even without solder this unit was pretty stable. :-))

I was very pleased with the results of this “make” and felt that further work was needed, on the main tabernacle particularly.
Looking at detailed photos of this, I saw there was a winch system built into the tabernacle.

So, “in for a penny in for a pound”.

An idea formed of making these winches “operable” if not properly working, so looking through all bits available in the spares and materials boxes and a few small purchases I ended up with a collection of pieces:


That assembled up into:

More brass work next time.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 20, 2010, 12:32:14 PM
OOPS SORRY! :(( :(( :((
It would appear that whilst moving pictures around in photobucket I have removed them from this thread. >:-o >:-o
I was trying to keep the album with all pics in, to a sensible size.
I hope that I will be able to resurrect them O0 O0 very soon!!! :-))
I was just getting organised to put up the next post. {:-{ {:-{
I hope that by returning them to the correct album they will reappear.
Anybody got any advice, before I completely mess this up.
John <:( <:(
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: airwolf572010 on September 20, 2010, 01:56:07 PM
Hi Watchleader im new but I have read the other posts you have submitted and beautiful work is all I can say and good luck with Lady Daphne I bet she will be a treat and a delight to sail when you are ready.. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 20, 2010, 04:32:19 PM
For those watching who missed my pics cos I inadvertantly moved them to another album in photobucket - sorry!
But I have got them back now. :} :} :}

With masts/sprits etc made I looked at all the bands on these used for attaching sails, stays, lofts etc.
I was not surprised, but a little daunted, by the fact that only 2 bands were of a suitable size for stock tube.  :((
So the lathe and quite a bit of brass bar played a vital part in the making of these next items.
Measuring the mast/sprit diameter at the correct place and boring out the brass to the relevant diameter, then turning to a wall thickness of 0.030”, then parting off at 3mm long.
There were quite a few!! %% %% %%
These all had an attachment point fitted and several had more than one.
These attachment points were made by parting off, from 3mm o/d brass tube 1.5mm lengths and then soldering these to the bands.

These two are the bowsprit bands       

This was a fiddly exercise.  {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
They all have to be in place when soldering, because try it one at a time and the heat on such small items de-solders the previous joints.
Holding them in place with 20swg galvanised was the best solution O0 O0 O0

Believe me, this magnifier becomes one of the more useful items in the workshop, as the eyesight goes with age.

These are the bands for the mast

And these are all of them

Also made were the mast joiners and forestay pulley assembly.



These are the cross trees. These turned out to be pretty simple to make after discovering small hinges on a wiper blade assembly that was doing nothing.


I’ll be describing the making of the winches next.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 20, 2010, 04:34:53 PM
Thank you Airwolf for the kind remarks. :-))
I was so releived to get my pics restored I negleted to thank you in the previous post.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: bosun on September 20, 2010, 07:28:04 PM
Hey John
That,s coming along a treat mate, Holding the parts to be soldered with wire was a neat touch, looking forward to the rest of your build.
I will have to call over and take a proper look :-))
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: jenno on September 20, 2010, 11:36:41 PM
Hi John,
             Looking good, some very nice detail there, keep up the good work.
see you up the lake soon.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 24, 2010, 11:59:54 AM

After making the winch on the main tabernacle “working”, I considered making the Leeboard winches and the Braille winch the same way.  :-) :-)

I was running short of brass sheet and whilst I could have purchased this, it’s not the cheapest commodity to get. :(( :((

Another “brainwave” (well to me it was) :} :} ----- Double sided, copper clad, printed circuit board came to mind. O0 O0

This material has the advantage of being pretty easy to cut, using the small circular saw :-)) :-))


Sketching the parts first and then sticking these sketches with “pritt” glue to suitably sized pieces of pcb also stuck together with “pritt” glue, I drilled, cut and filed these to shape. :-) :-)



and it was a doddle to solder


Together with short lengths of brazing rod as joiners and a few turned winch barrels, a couple of plastic gears from old kids toys;

These winches took shape.


The A frame for the ships wheel I also made the same way.




Although I had improved my sketches, with the use of a simple CAD system which gave a more accurate position for drilling centres


I then looked everywhere for a decent ships wheel. Good ones are as rare as "rocking horse ****".

The only half decent one I saw, when it arrived, had been incorrectly described by the seller, and was way too small.

So my only option  --  make one!!

That's in the next post. :-)) :-)) :-))

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: DickyD on September 25, 2010, 07:15:27 PM
Hi John only just noticed your build, as I dont normally do boats with sails.

Must say the build is excellent and the attention to detail is amazing.   :-))
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on September 30, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
Thank you DickieD for your kind comments.
I hope you'll keep watching, there's plenty of fun to be had in the wind powered area of this hobby, as in all areas.

After several frustrating weeks of looking for a decent ships wheel I decided I would make one.
Well we are in this hobby to make things!!  :-)) :-)) O0 O0
Sourcing material was a minor hurdle, a quick look through the range of tufnol available on ebay and it was sorted.
I bought a short length of tufnol tube, this together with some tufnol rod I already had and a length of 1/16” brazing rod I was off.

A short length of brazing rod and a small turned and drilled “handle” was the start

I decided that a twelve spoke wheel was what I wanted, so 12 spokes/handles was what I made.

I know there's only eleven there. (King handle or TDC is always brass capped. This one all brass.)

Turning these was simple but I had to find a way of drilling them accurately.
I used a small drill held in the chuck of a flexidrive which in turn was clamped to a block held in the toolholder in the lathe. Making sure the drill was exactly on centre height, it was fairly simple to drill the tufnol ring.
(I have a fixture on the back of the lathe chuck which allows me to index the chuck. I made this some time ago using gears on the lathe to give a series of accurately positioned holes on a ring attached to the back of the chuck)

So the collection of bits came together

And assembled into a quite acceptable wheel.
I also made a brass boss for the centre of the wheel, ‘cos I forgot to make it earlier.

The finished wheel, with other relevant items prior to painting. {Not the wheel, that was just varnished.}
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: dreadnought72 on September 30, 2010, 09:38:55 PM

Can't say morethan that!

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: jenno on September 30, 2010, 10:27:56 PM
I like it john, very very nice wheel.

            see you soon
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on November 08, 2010, 12:13:33 AM
Sorry about the longish delay in continuing this thread  :embarrassed: :embarrassed: I have added a laptop here and that produced some minor complications.    {:-{ {:-{

This post is Lee boards, bulwarks, handrail and leeboard rollers

Lee boards were made from 3mm ply, clad in plasticard, plain on the inner side and simulated planking on the outer side.
Strips of plain plasticard were added to simulate the bracing planks.
As I wanted the leeboards to operate I added a 3” x 1” piece of 3mm brass into the lower section of the ply core.
This was to provide sufficient weight for the board to drop under its own weight and only lifting required by the winch.



When gluing these I made sure that they stayed flat using a significant bit of weight on them whilst drying


The bulwarks I made from 1mm plasticard.
These were a little tricky to get exactly right, as the slightest error in shape meant the bulwarks were not going to stand at the correct angle.
Thin card pieces (weetabix packet) were taped together to cover the length of the bulwark and a little over height, then taped to the outside of the hull and the deck line marked from the inside.
This was then cut to the line and placed in position inside the sheer strake on top of the deck supports.
It is my intention to fix this in place with the decking, as well as adhesive.
When these were temporarily fixed I marked the bulwark top line on the card and cut it out.
I transferred this outline to two pieces of 1mm plasticard and cut out both sides. 
I primed the wooden deck supports and fibreglass with a mixture made from plasticard fragments and cellulose thinners.
I then glued the bulwarks in position with plastic solvent.
This was a temporary fixing and the bulwarks were later “locked in” when the deck was fitted.



The handrails I had to scratch my head about.
My first thought was to make these from wood, but after a few rather poor results because of the compound curves involved, I decided to construct these from plastruct section.
2.5mm square section on the inside of the bulwark capped in and out with 2.5mm half round.
This produced a pretty strong and convincing handrail section, if not the cheapest!!!


Hatch combing was made from 3mm ply and the hatch covers were built in situ
using 3mm x 20mm (IKEA Venetian, blinds stripped using small circular saw.) as surrounds and 3mm ply tops
(not forgetting to cover the combing with cling film to stop the covers being permanently fixed to the combing)




The original design leeboard rollers  I failed to get to operate at all successfully at this scale.
There was just too much twist/flex in the bulwarks.
So I had to use a little licence and provided a support.
At least in this pic the handrail is seen better.


I hope the pic quality in this post hasn’t disappointed too much.   :(( :((
I was too enthralled in the build at this stage to check out the pic quality before moving on!!! :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on November 17, 2010, 10:46:24 AM

At last we had reasonable enough weather to get the hull outside and prepare it for painting. :} :}

Preparation was with the tried and tested method of rubbing down with wet and dry emery (used wet) starting with 600 grit and moving progressively through to 1800 grit  after, of course, plugging all orifices. (Keel box opening and prop shaft tube.)
After this washing down with clean water with a drop of fairy liquid and allow to dry thoroughly.


The whole of the hull below the handrail I then sprayed with 3 light coats of red oxide primer. Allowing it to dry well between coats.
I use the red oxide spray primer from Screwfix. It’s a little more reasonable cost than Halfords and just as good.  O0 O0

I then gave a final finish coat of primer to the hull below the water line.


I also sprayed the keel, leeboards and rudder at the same time.


When the paint had thoroughly dried, I masked the waterline using 10mm wide Tamiya tape.
Then using a great product from the poundshop – masking tape with polythene attached.  :-)) :-))
(Meant for masking skirting boards etc)
I covered the hull bottom and then turned the hull the right way up and, as the same stuff was attached inside the hand rail, I folded it over to cover the deck area.



I masked some of the areas that would be white above the waterline and then I masked the rudder below the water line and got it and the leeboards prepared as well.
Now ready for black for the hull above the waterline and leeboards and rudder.

Contrast red to black not too good in that pic

When all these were sprayed and the tape removed (except on deck area) and all thoroughly dry, I sprayed all with satin varnish (2 coats)


It’s starting to look something like the vessel I wanted it to be now. :} :}

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on December 06, 2010, 10:30:58 PM
Next job is the detailing of the hull, i.e. adding the things that start to bring it “alive!
I put the name on the bow section using 10mm gold self adhesive lettering.
(Not sure if the font I used is the best, but I will change it later if it doesn’t look right!!)
The gold stripe was just that: - 1.5mm wide trim line the “arrow head” being 4mm wide short length shaped with a sharp scalpel when in position.
Also the depth markings were a bit tricky.
I used 1mm wide yellow trim line, set between strips of masking tape, 6mm apart, and then trimming to the masking tape guides to get a consistent height.
(Thank goodness they are in roman numerals)
The transom and the bow and stern bulwark “decoration” had me pondering for a while.
These are basically painted blue with quite elaborate gold scroll work incised in, as well as the vessels name and port of origin on the transom.
I felt that spraying up, then incising scroll work, and incising the name and port of origin on a lighter blue background at 1/24 scale, was going to be fraught with problems.
So I didn’t!!
I decided that I would build these off the boat and add them as finished pieces. I used self adhesive vinyl sheets of the required colours, plus of course suitable sized gold self adhesive letters, and a gold marker pen.

I used copper earth wire from 1.5mm twin and earth cable shaped carefully with round nosed pliers as guides for the scroll work.
There was no way I was going to get it tidy, leave alone symmetrical, without the guide/s

The result was quite satisfactory.

The scroll work I simplified a little from the original.
The original design, reduced to 1/24 scale, looked far “too “busy”



Yeah I’m happy with that.  :-)
Just a satin spray coat and it’s done.

Deck furniture next, and then the rigging!!
Just realised that the sails are hanked on with small shackles and there are something over 100 required. Aaaaarrrrrgh!!
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: farrow on December 10, 2010, 08:35:52 PM
Only the mainsail and mizzen are shackled to a stay post the rest are siezed on except flying jib which have spring loaded metal hangs, should now have fitted out enough of the real things. Remember the Dauphne as a motor barge with R,W.Pauls of Ipswhich in the grain trade. Her and her sisters built by Shortts are I believe the only ones built to a blue print.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on December 13, 2010, 07:14:51 PM
All info is good info.
Can you tell me when "Lady Daphne" was last staysail rigged? :-))
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: farrow on December 21, 2010, 12:14:21 AM
Hi mate, afraid I cannot answer you accurately, but she is listed as an aux sailing barge in the lists published in F.S Coopers a "Hand Book of Sailing" isbn 0 229642322. A book which is very good for rigging out a full size barge and written by one of the last trading barge masters with John Chancellor. I remember her in the sixties as a big motor barge that is for a wooden one, most of Pauls where bowsprit at one time or another exceptions being the small Anglia and Marjorie. Do not forget to fit the rope stopper on the forestayfall, all barges had them.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Popeye on December 21, 2010, 11:06:19 AM
Ahoy Watchleader, details the entire history of 'Lady Daphne' and/or Email Elizabeth Mainelli, (charters managing agent), Nymph Ltd., at for any information not contained in 'Daphne's' website.

Compliments of the Season.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: farrow on December 21, 2010, 09:48:05 PM
Hi Watchleader,
I do not know an awful lot about the Daphne and Jean as I was a forty thieves man, aka London & Rochester Trading Co/Crescent shipping and in my time those two beast's where Ipswich boats. But all the Auxilliary's in Rochester I believed lost thier Mizzern masts and if they had a bowsprit that went as well, especially those with a spritty mizzern as that made way for a wheel house. The mule rigged boats already had a wheel house come shelter aft when under sail. The two barges where not built for Pauls and as they are Rochester registered with Lady prefix's they could have built for Watson's of Rochester. An old skipper I knew was well versed about them, well known in the trade as stuttering Bob, but I expect he is now passed on, you have to be careful in researching these crafts as there are so many enthusiastic experts who never sailed on them in trade or really knew the people who worked them!!! But as my old skipper said once it took a more skilled man to work a slow plodder than a fast handy one. Plus do not forget they may sail fairly close to the wind, but christ did they go sideways, after all they where like sailing planks.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: farrow on December 23, 2010, 07:30:51 PM
I found this pic of the Aux Thyra of Rochester, it was taken not long after she was bought out of trade. She is a similiar deck layout etc to the Dauphne, but her chicken hut aft has been removed for ascetic purposes. Any way I thought you may be interested in the pic, it is from "The Thames Sailing Barge-Her Gear and Rigging" ISBN  0  87742  001  7. The Auther is Dennis F. Davis and published by David & Charles of Newton Abbot, the book has several good close up photo,s of working barges rig and fittings.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: farrow on December 26, 2010, 10:54:17 PM
Found two interesting articles about the Daphnie in my book, the master concerned gave a very vivid and superb tale of her sail down channel on the BBC when I was a young lad.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on June 06, 2011, 07:26:39 PM
I know I haven't posted updates to the build on here recently, but I did not model during the colder months and other commitments kept me from updating the build. :((
This post is to bring this forum into sync with the other forum the build is on.
 :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
After this I shall run the two closer together. Then post until complete  :} :} :}


I decided that this was a good time to get on and set up a way of making these in reasonable numbers, this is what developed.
1.2mm brass rod was the obvious material to use but how to make the shackle ends easily drillable.
I realised that flattening the end was the right thing to do, but this was so small that using a hammer and anvil free hand was not going to make it.
Looking at all the tools I had there was an obvious choice. I had a 6” box hinge pliers that had a small area that comes together when the pliers were closed and this area was reasonably close to the fulcrum to produce some significant pressure, and they would probably be strong enough to do the job.
They did the job quite well, if the first squeeze wasn’t quite enough, then a “tap” with a med hammer on the pliers jaws did the job.


With a little trial and error I determined the total length of the brass rod for each one and after flattening the first end I used a makeshift depth stop (bit of wood in vice) to cut the piece off the brass rod to length and then make the next one. (A mini production line!!!) Doing the other end of the short length was just a repeat of the first, making sure that the two flattened end were in line
Sorry a little blurred here but I hope you get the idea.


After this it was a case of finding a way to drill each end with a 1mm dia drill. It was fortunate that the parallel part between the flattened ends was exactly the same as the width of my small tool clamps. I held the clamp in a drill vice and effectively used the tool clamp as a mini vice. So setting up the drill to drill one end and then turning the piece in the tool clamp, I was able to drill both end the same.


I tried several ways of bending these pieces.
Using round nosed pliers sort of worked, but was not very consistent and I broke a couple.
I could see that the best way was going to be – make a jig!
I again, looked in my box of old tools and I found a cheap glass cutter with a breaking anvil fitted. By just removing the cutting disc and making a little form tool I was able to (with a bit of trial and error on the form width) produce pretty consistent, and realistic miniature shackle bodies. No damage to the glass cutting tool and replacing the cutter put it back where it started
(yes, they are small!)


I use 9mm long x 1mm dia miniature brass pins for shackle pins and when assembling them will clinch the excess end off the pin.
That should fix it firmly in place. If not, then a spot of superglue or quick dab of solder.


Made about eighty so far, so a few more to go, but I’m happy with that.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: dreadnought72 on June 06, 2011, 09:30:16 PM
Brilliant!  :-))

That's really inventive. Shackles are a long way off for me and Racundra, but I shall bookmark this and return in the future.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on June 13, 2011, 01:08:41 PM
There is quite a lot of rigging on this vessel.
If I tried and do all of the rigging as the original I will have a real game. So deciding what should, and shouldn’t be on, is the first task.
Obviously pretty well all the standing rigging has to be in place so that’s where I started.
The shrouds were the first thing to tackle.  :-))
After trying to copy the original shroud fitting over the hounds, not very successfully, I decided that a compromise was needed.   :embarrassed:
I made the shrouds/ratlines as a separate item and would later make up a dummy fixing around the hounds; it was a lot easier to make these on a jig setup, for both port and starboard, quite a simple jig:
Using GP rigging cord, fixing the deadeyes in the lower end and looping onto a fixing ring at the top, remembering to slide on 2 pieces of 2.00mm black shrink sleeve, setting a decent tension and then adding ratlines at scale 15” - (1.25”) separation, with three clove hitches on each and a spot of superglue, job done!
The fixed ends of the main shrouds were then tidied using the shrink sleeve.


The remaining standing rigging was all done using coated fishing trace wire. This is available in varying strengths and colours.
As there will be quite a bit of force on this rigging I used a variety of strengths and thickness’s, from 20lb light pike trace through 40lb pike trace and the three main forestays were 60lb clear nylon coated sea fishing trace wire.
All these have suitable sized crimps available.
I can’t recommend strongly enough to anyone thinking of following this method is to get a set of proper crimp pliers to set these, as using normal pliers or even round nosed pliers, gives a very untidy and unreliable fixing. The crimps were all covered, again using suitable sized shrink sleeve. 
The following two pics, (sorry, a little blurred) give the general idea. I know the rigging doesn’t show too well even with a contrasting sheet behind.



This pic shows the below decks layout (some of it) with the motor, battery and ESC in the centre.
The rudder servo and, aft of that, the starboard leeboard continuous rotation servo.
The sail winch is under the foreward hatch and a continuous loop runs around pulleys below the deck with a spring tensioner and two fixed rings in the loop, to attach the sail controls to. Sail control cords come up through nylon tube onto deck, centrally near the horses.


This pic shows the bow section.
The fall from the stayfall tackle is fed down a tube to below deck into the prow via a tube.
Also the excess anchor chain is fed into the chain locker in the prow via a tube.


It will be sail parts (parrels and cringles and bolt rope) in the next post. O0
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on June 15, 2011, 01:06:27 PM

I am now at the stage of sail production!

This has been a slightly daunting prospect for me for a while.  {:-{ {:-{
I decided earlier that when this time came I would resist the temptation to pass the sewing over to my wife, even though she offered.  O0 O0

If a new skill is required? Then learn it! That’s my philosophy. :-)) :-))
Firstly though, to help me put off the day, there are things closer to my comfort zone that require making. :-))

Parrels and cringles.
Both the mizzen and the topsail are hanked to Parrels running on the mast.
These are simply rings of either metal or wood that are a loose fit over the relevant mast, and slide up and down.
They are a semi-permanent fitting on the mast and often spares are fitted with the originals, otherwise it’s a major task to drop the topmast to fit new ones; somewhat simpler with the Mizzen.

The rings are all the same size and therefore I felt a simple way to make these all the same, was to wind a spiral of brass wire of a suitable guage and to a suitable diameter and then just cut the required number from that spiral.
Again the lathe showed its versatility.
I remembered this technique from winding springs, during my apprenticeship. Too many years ago!!! <:( <:(

Choose a decent size bolt, just to give a guide for the helix, and then using a small clamp hold the chosen wire into the thread and use a bar and piece of ply to clamp the wire and give a constant holding back force.
Then turn the chuck BY HAND,  O0 to produce the number of turns required.
By varying the clamp force and/or the distance to the bolt slightly different diameter spirals can be made. I.e. trial and error!!  :D
If more rings are required than can be done on the bolt length, make another spiral.  :} :}


To produce rings just clip complete, or a tad over complete, circles from the spiral, twist slightly to set in line, slip on a suitable jump ring and solder. Solder both Parrel ring and jump ring at the joins, at right angles to each other, giving a Parrel with a suitably placed attachment for the shackle.


How to make cringle irons puzzled me for a while, but luckily it was the weekend of Shepton Mallet Show,  :-)) :-))
A conversation with the very helpful members on the AMBO stand left me coming away with a copy of  “Sail making for Model Barges” by Mike Taylor.  What an excellent pamphlet.
Therefore I take no credit in developing this method, but just a couple of pics to show the interpretation.
The basic cringles are short 3mm lengths of 4mm brass tube, heated to cherry red and quenched in water to anneal.
The jig is formed and split to allow the “tube” to bell at either end and be removed.


The punch is shaped to the bell form and tapped firmly into the tube to form the cringle. (From either side of course.)
The jig doesn’t allow it to go anywhere and can be released easily.

Bolt ropes next
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: bosun on June 15, 2011, 05:53:49 PM
Yo John
Really nice job, coming along a treat mate.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: tigertiger on June 17, 2011, 06:39:20 AM
yes, fantastic job  :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on June 17, 2011, 04:12:20 PM
Many thanks guys. These positive responses are much appreciated. :-)) :-))

Model bolt ropes require being; in scale, looking right, and working. O0 O0

I have been looking for something suitable to use as bolt rope almost from the start of this build, without much success.  :((
Braided nylon doesn’t look right (it does on a more modern yacht) and it’s difficult to colour match, as it doesn’t take dye well.  :(( :((

I was at a boot sale a few months ago and found some bobbins of different coloured thread; terracotta, green, brown, grey, beige and yellow, - the yellow was waxed.
With the six in my arms I asked “How much?” The reply “A quid?” I’ve never taken a pound coin so quickly from my pocket and left. - Very happy!  :} :}  :police: :police:

These threads were going to be suitable for halyards, sheets and general cordage, but were not substantial enough for bolt rope.  :((

So ... How to turn good quality thread into something thicker? {:-{ {:-{

In the “full size” world, thinner cords are counter-wound into thicker ropes using a rope walk; so why not in our small scale world?  %%

And so the “Model Rope Walk” came into being.

The following pics will give a better idea than any amount of description.

This is the working end of the setup

This is the other end 7 feet away carrying the tension weight.
The correct weight is found by trial and error, and varies with the threads being wound.

This is the part that counter-rotates the threads...
Simply a central geared wheel with satellite gears running on it, each with hooks attached.
The winding head is designed to rotate in either direction, to ensure that the winding works with the twist in the thread and not against it. :((

The whole thing is driven from an old battery operated screwdriver motor.

The threads are attached to the weight via this sliding guide and onto a fishing swivel.
The guide is made to take either three or four ply rope.

It is quite simple to produce “model rope” of about a metre length with this setup.
After winding and before removing, the ends are fixed with a spot of superglue. If a shorter length is required, then a spot of superglue is where you cut, after it dries. 

A trio of the bobbins from the boot sale and the bootmakers thread and a selection of “ropes” produced.



The brown 4ply was made from boot-makers thread (also from another boot sale)


Sewing time is imminent !!!!! %%

We're on the home straight now :} :}
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: bosun on June 17, 2011, 05:52:05 PM
Now that,s what I call proper scratch building, :-)) even down to  making your own scale rope, excellent stuff.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: jenno on June 17, 2011, 07:33:14 PM
WOW now thats what i call a excellent job , what a talent you have

well done John.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on June 20, 2011, 07:34:50 AM
Thank you both for those encouraging comments.  ;)  :-))

The time had arrived when I had to get this sewing thing sorted, so with my wife’s permission I set up her, all singing all dancing, pretty modern sewing machine.
With a little guidance I wound a bobbin and set the threads into the machine and chose the stitch pattern; a simple single, in line stitch, at about 12 stitches to the inch.
Then with a piece of material I started to sew: - Hell! the thing almost took off!!  :embarrassed:  :embarrassed:
I managed to stop and found I had stitched a row about 5” long in no more than 5 seconds.
This was not controllable! The foot control was far too sensitive for me to handle. At least I had managed to keep my fingers away from the needle area.  {-) {-)
Plan B
My mother had a treadle Singer sewing machine in a cabinet. About 50 years ago she bought a kit to convert the treadle machine into a motor driven machine, and as an apprentice engineer at the time I was the one chosen to fit it. It was quite a straight forward job, as I remember.
This machine has been in my possession since my mother passed away 10 years ago and has been acting as a hall table, as it is a nicely polished piece of furniture.
Wow! After setting it up and winding a bobbin (good, solid stainless steel thing, - not clear plastic) I threaded the machine, using the instruction manual still in its clip in the door, and started to sew another piece of material.
What a dream to use. It ran quietly and smoothly like a “sewing machine!”    O0  O0  Easily controllable from a snail’s pace to pretty fast.       {-) {-)
A little bit of confidence arrived then.  O0  O0

Let’s go back a few days.
I had set the rigging up with temporary fixing, to hold all parts in the proper position and measured the sizes the sails needed to be. (Don’t use the sail plan drawing it will not be accurate enough!)
From these measurements, I cut brown paper dummy sails and tacked them in place with masking tape. After a few minor adjustments I had the boat carrying a set of brown paper sails cut as the finished size of the completed sails.
Sorry. I didn’t take a pic at this point.
Using these templates I transferred the sail outlines to the sail material, using tailors chalk.
The material used for the main, mizzen, tops’l and jib, was the sail material; “brick red sailcloth” supplied by Modelling Timbers. For the inner and out stays’ls I used an old sheet (previously used as a dustsheet) dyed with tea. These are meant to look like natural canvas, as they were not treated with red ochre and not left rigged. (They were normally used only used in reasonably light winds when sea-going.)


I marked on the cloth lines at the correct scale widths (32mm for mains’l tops’l and jib, and 30mm for inner and outer stays’ls and mizzen) then marked out a suitable (12mm) width all round to allow for the double hem required all round the sail edge.


Carefully, I cut the sails out and the first thing to sew is the cloth lines. These lines were sewn, starting and ending, off the cloth. The loose ends were tied carefully and snipped off. If these cloth lines are not sewn straight and parallel and equally spaced, they will stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.


The hems, doubled, were then sewn, stitching very carefully, about 1mm from the inner hem edge. This provided pockets along all edges where I could insert any weighting needed into the sail foot and also mains’l top stiffener.
After several days I now had a set of sails, which looked good, but were missing a vital part of the sail.
Bolt rope and cringles.
Then came probably the most tedious part of this build; Hand stitching the bolt rope to the sail/s
I used a loom (normally used for bead work) to hold the sail and rope in line whilst sewing it on. I put it close to the window for maximum light.
It was straight forward to do, just remembering to lay the stitches into the lay of the ply of the bolt rope and to let the blood flow stop, (after sticking the needle numerous times into my finger), to ensure that the sail doesn’t get blood spots on it.!!!


I did manage to sew my finger to the sail at one point, but I was able to release it using a scalpel (On the skin of my finger! NOT the sail!)
The cringles were sewn in at several points on each sail, at all corners, and on the mains’l leach for braille ropes.


.......Sails on


neary there just the jib to add   :o :o
The stain on the inner stays’l wasn’t intended. It appeared after staining with tea. There must have been something on the dustsheet, probably wallpaper paste, which didn’t show until after staining.
I left it on, as I looks a bit like an accident with the stays’l when in storage??? Well, to me it does.!!!  {-) {-)


DONE !!!

The eagle-eyed of you will also notice that I have added reefing lines to the main and jib.    Just a little more realism! :-)) :-))

The reason I have yet to fit the braille ropes is; until I have had a few goes at raising and lowering the full rigging, I am not sure whether they will be a hindrance or not.
She does fold down to a reasonable size which enables her to be transported in the vehicle, so I don’t have to make a trailer for her.  {:-{ {:-{
But I shall be making a storage box; 54”long x 14” wide x 24”high.


Those of you who know these vessels will have seen, if you look closely, a significant mistake I made with one of these sails.  O0 O0
I will rectify that mistake soon!!   No prizes for finding it, just the satisfaction!  :P :P

No! I haven't painted the boat stand - PINK - it's an unwanted camera effect probably a reflection from the sails.  %%

This is the next to last posting for this build.  <:( <:(
Later I hope to add a post of ‘Daphne on the water; assuming of course there are no mishaps and she does sail.  :-X :-X
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: pasty on June 20, 2011, 10:46:24 AM
Beautiful job Watchleader, this will look a treat on the water.
The sails look really nice and great job on the sewing, what type of material is it and the thickness?
They seem to hang just right. Also the colour seems about right as well, ie not too bright.

Whats your next project?
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on June 20, 2011, 12:32:20 PM
Hi Pasty

Many thanks for your comment. It's much appreciated. O0

The material used for the main, mizzen, tops’l and jib, was the sail material; “brick red sailcloth” supplied by Modelling Timbers. :-)) :-))

The next project is a Vic puffer. Well, the hull is here waiting anyway.   :-) :-)

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on July 04, 2011, 08:01:57 PM

Well at long last!  O0  O0
Lady Daphne has made to the water.  :-))  :-))  :-))
I went to Barry MBC water last Thursday, but the chop was breaking up over the edge and the wind was 4-5; much too much for her maiden trip.  <:(  <:(

On Saturday I took her to Bryn Bach Water, Tredegar; home of Bryn Bach Scale and Sail.
Much calmer, a lovely day in fact.  :}  :}
When she was launched it was obvious a little ballast was needed aft, as she was sitting too high in the stern. With a couple of pounds of lead, just laid on deck, she was a lot better trimmed.
So a check of the radio equipment and she was off.
There was so little wind, particularly close to, that I used the motor to take her out to slightly better conditions.
I must thank Jenno and Bosun for taking the pics and video.      :-)) :-))    My camera had chosen that moment to fail.  :((  :((
I am pleased with the results of what was a very enjoyable build
So here are a few pics to finish this build blog.



A little wind at last

Hardly a twitch while crossing a wake

Looks good too, from this level, fairly realistic

I hope to have a video up later and will post a link to it then.

Thank you all for your helpful comments during this build and for your forbearance during some of the delays.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: dreadnought72 on July 04, 2011, 08:58:52 PM
Got to nominate this for a master class: it's been instructive and fascinating from post #1.

You've a great result there. Watchleader.  :-))

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: bosun on July 05, 2011, 12:28:56 PM
Nice to see her in the water john, you have done a lovely job, with some very nice scratch building , even down to the home made rope,s :-)).
I second the fact she should be in the master class section. Proper Job. Over to you Martin.
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: pugwash on July 05, 2011, 01:10:48 PM
A beautiful boat and some very inventive modelling techniques - particularly liked things like the ships wheel and
some of the brass parts you made up for the masts and sails.  You should be justifiably proud of your work.
What are her dimensions and what scale is she built to.

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on July 08, 2011, 12:15:48 AM
Many thanks guys for those endorsements.  :-)
It is very much appreciated. :-)

In answer to Andy's question: 
           Lady Daphne is built to 1/24th scale.

           Hull: length is 45", beam 11"
           O/all length, bowsprit to mizzen boom is 65"
           Bilge to Bob she is 49" high.
           Displacement is 26lbs


Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: Watchleader on July 09, 2011, 11:28:54 AM

Many thanks to all of you who have shown an interest in this build. :-)) :-))
I’ve done a few little tidy-ups and now I hope for some suitable weather to explore her sailing ability, and mine. O0 O0
I am now able to close this blog with a link to the video of Lady Daphne on her maiden voyage. :} :}
Please enjoy. ok2 ok2

Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: tigertiger on July 10, 2011, 04:22:33 AM
Wonderful job, excellent model.  :-))
It has inspired me to get started again.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Getting to grips with “Lady Daphne”
Post by: WasWatchleader on November 09, 2012, 10:55:12 PM
 Hello again to all.  :-))
For those who wished to see the video of Lady Daphne on the water on her maiden voyage and discovered the previous link, two posts up,  does not work.  :((
Somebody managed to delete it from YouTube.                                           why?? <*< <*<
Here is the same video reloaded and the amended link
It's good to back after 8 months or so of frustratingly reading only.  {:-{
So often I wanted to chip in with my sixpennyworth. >>:-( >>:-(