Model Boat Mayhem

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Painting, Finishing and Care. => Topic started by: Richard M on November 01, 2010, 06:10:37 PM

Title: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Richard M on November 01, 2010, 06:10:37 PM
I am on my second build so am still learning but here goes.

I wanted to mask up for the waterline on my Robbe Atlantis. Can't use tape as the shallow counter stern means the waterline varies in width a lot and there is also a tight curve at the stern.
I bought some flexible plastic tape off a trade stand at the recent Model Engineering Exhibition in Warwickshire. It is red and hopeless. I reckon it is the tape that butchers use in those little machines for sealing plastic bags.
I then bought some flexible tape from a well known on line supplier of modellers bits and pieces. It is also hopeless. It feels like regular DIY paper masking tape sliced very narrow. Follows the curve OK but allows bleeding.
I have now achieved some success using Tamiya 6mm tape for the straightish section of the hull and Trimline PVC tape for the tight radius, the trouble with the latter is it sticks too well. I notice that someone suggested BECC flexible tape so back to the Credit Card I suppose.
If anyone can shorten my learning curve, me and my boat would be very happy!

Rich
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Brian Roberts on November 01, 2010, 06:20:39 PM
Difficult I know, but persevere with the Tamiya tape around the tight curves, a bit of patience needed but you'll get there in the end..........I know, I've been there!

There's nothing quite like the Tamiya tape to prevent bleeding.

Brian
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Guy Bagley on November 01, 2010, 06:21:22 PM
i use the tamiya tapes, if they are too sticky i sometimes stick them to a clean cotton sheet and then remove and apply to the models, it just takes the tack off the tape, it still sticks and so long as care is taken to ensure the edge is well stuck its a good mask edge....

 i have also used low tack  graphics tape- especially good for curves....this tape is low tack and is particually good when used on recently painted surfaces...
i used to get from the london graphics centre- i have no idea if i will ever be able to replace this tape as its been in my workshop for ages, and  its been around a while before that !- i dont even know if it is still made, but i guess when the roll comes to an end i will go hunting....

but if you have an art shop or a graphics type  retailer locally it may be worth asking if they sell low tack film/ graphics tapes..... they are good.....flexible and low tack....

 maybe someone like stavros or others who is a wealth of info  on car repairs and sprays may be able to advise about painting/ masking off too.........
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Circlip on November 01, 2010, 06:32:10 PM
1" (25mm) wide crepe masking tape, Patience and a sharp scalpel, "Frisk" film and Patience and a sharp scalpel or red tape you've already got, Patience and a sharp scalpel.

  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Liverbudgie on November 01, 2010, 08:10:08 PM
As has already been mentioned there is no substitute for taking you time and being careful, also when your in the tight section keep the tape as taught as possible while slowly pressing down on the tape and applying in very small sections, even then the tape may not follow the line you want it to which is were the Sharp blade comes into play.

Much is made of Tamiya tape which is very good but, also very expensive; there are though much cheaper versions which are just as good. I recently bought from the local model shop 18 meters (55 feet approx) of 5.9mm tape for £1.79 which as far as I could tell was about a third of the price of a similar Tamiya product. (www.tristar-model.com)

To reduce the likelihood of paint bleeding under the tape always make sure that the edge of the tape is firmly applied but, even this did not stop it in my case. So, I have taken to applying a thin coat of matt varnish to the edge of the tape and allowing to dry before applying the paint; I also apply the paint so that it does not run into the edge of the tape, i.e. if Iím doing the underwater section of the hull then the model is the right way up and if Iím doing the section above the waterline then is upside down. To date this has worked remarkably well and bleeds seem to be a thing of the past, at least as far as Iím concerned.

LB
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: nemesis on November 01, 2010, 08:37:24 PM
Hello, I have found that even at 6mm it is difficult to radius tight bends, so I cut it to 2mm wide then add another, half lapping the first one and adding again until you can use the broader tape. As with the other mayhemers, patience at times is bitter but its virtues are sweet. Good luck. Oh, it is Tamiya tape that I am on about,                 Nemesis
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: triumphjon on November 01, 2010, 10:55:27 PM
duck sell a flexible masking tape that is designed to follow curves , ive bought a roll for just a pound ( it was in poundland ! ) so far ive found it an exelent product !
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Boy From the Bay on November 02, 2010, 04:58:55 AM
Would electrical tape do it?

Flexible, low tack, no residue, cheaper than Tamiya tape, won't bleed, and it won't ruck unless overstretched.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Netleyned on November 02, 2010, 06:43:55 AM
Spray a light coat of the colour under the mask along the edge and let dry before continuing with the required colour
Any bleed then will be the same colour as the masked area


Ned
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: knoby on November 02, 2010, 07:50:28 AM
Hi Rich, car paint suppliers sell the tape im 3mm size. its known as edging tape. i found its best to get the cheaper ones, not the branded names, as they tend to be less sticky. Also, as Ned says, paimit first coat with the colour you have masked on so any bleed is the same colour. remove the edging tape as soon as you can, other wise it can chip or pull the paint off.
cheers glenn
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on November 02, 2010, 08:47:49 AM

Ive used this to good effect, the front was very tight and I had to go over the spray rail it worked well


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Masking-Tape-Micro-Pinstripe-Removable-Channel-2-5-mm-/250708841010?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a5f695232

Peter
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Richard M on November 02, 2010, 06:25:46 PM
Thanks guys for the suggestions. My last efforts were better as I used varnish to seal the edge, almost no bleed, hooray!!

I have more to do so the help is much appreciated.

I have experimented with T Cut on a piece of waste and it brings up a fantastic gloss on the Halfords Aerosols I am using and I have seen the posts regarding using 1500g and 2000g wet and dry to remove the high points. If I can get the same finish as that Fire Tender I will be a happy bunny.

I am building Robbe Atlantis hence want to achieve a gloss finish and mainly for my own benefit have started a blog at http://robbeatlantis.blogspot.com

Cheers
Rich
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Watchleader on November 02, 2010, 08:07:49 PM
Liverbudgie and others.

Tamiya tape is by and far the best and it is NOT that expensive. :-)) :-))
Just don't throw away the original holder from the used tape. O0 O0

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180570548899&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_949

Not connected to this in any way, other than a satisfied user.

John
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on November 02, 2010, 08:26:37 PM
one thing you have to do is remove the tape when the paint is wet, or before it starts to form a skin .

Peter
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Liverbudgie on November 02, 2010, 09:44:14 PM
Liverbudgie and others.

Tamiya tape is by and far the best and it is NOT that expensive. :-)) :-))
Just don't throw away the original holder from the used tape. O0 O0

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180570548899&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_949

Not connected to this in any way, other than a satisfied user.

John
Tamiya tape is by and far the best and it is NOT that expensive.
Well that's relative isnít it, if one were to have £100m in the bank then a new Roller would not be that expensive would it!
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: brianc on November 02, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
When you take the overall cost of a build,I have to say that 3 or 4 quid for a roll of Tamiya tape is a pretty good investment.
The paint finish will make or break a build,so why not buy the best?
Personally,I think it`s a no brainer  O0
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Watchleader on November 02, 2010, 10:25:57 PM
Whatever you wish to relate it to.  :o :o

2 rolls, each 18 metres (36metres) of 6mm Tamiya masking tape for £2.95;  - whilst living on a state pension is NOT expensive.
 %% %% %%
As you say Big Bri  - "No Brainer"
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: soldier151 on November 02, 2010, 11:51:17 PM
Hi Guys
Read the post re Masking Tape - my question is "How soon is it necessary to remove the masking tape?
I would have thought it would be better to let the area dry before removal
Soldier151
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: pugwash on November 03, 2010, 12:13:26 AM
Chris - a lot of people advocate taking the tape off almost immediately - If it is fairly quick drying paint I take it off as soon as I am satisfied with the painting,
if it is slower to dry I leave it for a few minutes so that it doesn't pull of any paint as you remove the tape. I never pull the tape away from the model but pull
it down the side of the model so the tape is doubling back on itself hope that makes sense. this system works for me
Geoff
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: soldier151 on November 03, 2010, 12:29:30 AM
Hi Geoff,
My goodness, that was quick.   Thanks for the advice.  Will certainly try it.  Thank goodness for ModelMayhem, where you can get answers that QUICK.  Thanks Matey
Chris
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: brianc on November 03, 2010, 12:33:53 AM
Yep,this way works for me too Geoff,I just pull it back on itself slow and steady,works everytime  :-))
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on November 03, 2010, 12:36:22 AM
if you leave it to fully dry the paint that goes over the masking tape is joined to the paint you want to keep so it has to tear when you remove the tape , that is why you can get a rough edge when you paint to tape.
so if you remove it when wetthe edge can form and will look straight it is not going to run the type of paint we use, also get used to pulling the tape away from the painted area at about 45deg.

Peter
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: soldier151 on November 03, 2010, 12:55:56 AM
Hi,
You guys are quick, never expected a reply so soon.  Great work and many thanks.
Thats what ModelMayhem is about!!!!!
Chris aka soldier 151
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: justboatonic on November 06, 2010, 10:18:24 PM
if you leave it to fully dry the paint that goes over the masking tape is joined to the paint you want to keep so it has to tear when you remove the tape , that is why you can get a rough edge when you paint to tape.
so if you remove it when wetthe edge can form and will look straight it is not going to run the type of paint we use, also get used to pulling the tape away from the painted area at about 45deg.

Peter

Aah! That's why I sometimes get a 'step' between one paint and another. I guess if you do remove the tape while the paint is drying is be careful where you put your fingers!

I'd agree about tape removal, always remove the tape at a 45 degree angle. Makes for a cleaner edge and lessens the chance of pulling paint off the model.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Chuffy on November 07, 2010, 09:33:38 AM
And also a tip that Stavros posted some time ago, as soon as you have removed the tape, lightly and quickly wipe a clean finger along the painted edge and you will find that the little edge left where the paint meets the masking tape will vanish...........magic! It does need a bit of nerve though the first time you do it, sticking your finger on paint that is still a wee bit soft and actually improving the finish. The trick is however to keep the finger moving over the paint and not stop on the paint, and lift the finger off while still moving.

Paul.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Richard M on November 07, 2010, 03:45:56 PM
Thanks, not sure if I dare do that.

Richard
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Chuffy on November 07, 2010, 07:25:01 PM
I sprayed up a trial piece first, well two really. The first was good but I did not do it in one stroke, I hesitated in the middle this left a small finger print. The second was perfect I grabbed the bull by the horns and went for it and success! Unless Stavros's posts have been deleted do a search, he explains it a lot better than I have, believe me it's worth it if you can master the technique.

Paul.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on November 07, 2010, 09:11:15 PM
And also a tip that Stavros posted some time ago, as soon as you have removed the tape, lightly and quickly wipe a clean finger along the painted edge and you will find that the little edge left where the paint meets the masking tape will vanish...........magic! It does need a bit of nerve though the first time you do it, sticking your finger on paint that is still a wee bit soft and actually improving the finish. The trick is however to keep the finger moving over the paint and not stop on the paint, and lift the finger off while still moving.

Paul.

you only have to do things like that if you remove the tape far to late, all he was doing is pushing the peeled paint to the hull, not advisable.

peter
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Chuffy on November 07, 2010, 10:06:37 PM
Peter

You may well be right, I haven't looked at his posting, this was the advise he gave me to blend the edge of the grey (above the waterline) to the black (below the waterline on my Osprey armed trawler as no white line was required which would cover the edge. As he had already told me to remove the tape as soon as possible and therefore the edge would have still been soft enough to be smoothed down, I can't see for the life of me why this is not advisable. If you have removed the tape far too late then I would think you would need a hammer to knock it down,  not something I'm in the habit of doing.

Paul.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: essex2visuvesi on November 08, 2010, 08:10:16 AM
Spray a light coat of the colour under the mask along the edge and let dry before continuing with the required colour
Any bleed then will be the same colour as the masked area


Ned

This is the same as what i do

Also beware of cheap "pound shop" tapes.  Ive had some problems with it pulling off the paint when removed
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on November 08, 2010, 08:51:59 AM
Peter

You may well be right, I haven't looked at his posting, this was the advise he gave me to blend the edge of the grey (above the waterline) to the black (below the waterline on my Osprey armed trawler as no white line was required which would cover the edge. As he had already told me to remove the tape as soon as possible and therefore the edge would have still been soft enough to be smoothed down, I can't see for the life of me why this is not advisable. If you have removed the tape far too late then I would think you would need a hammer to knock it down,  not something I'm in the habit of doing.

Paul.

the only reason you would have to push it down is because you have removed it to late, and if it is still liquid a wet finger would just make a smudge.

Peter
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Chuffy on November 08, 2010, 10:03:04 AM
Re the magic finger, this is what I'm talking about...............this was the question

Hi all

Now I am swayed by all those who know what they are doing in regards to painting. It would seem that the greater majority on the forum use the grey primer as the paint of choice for Naval craft and the reddish primer for the water line or underside of the boat. Now me wanting to know everything before I start a project would like to know a few things. When you spray the boat with the grey primer you obviously spray the whole boat and then mask off the top half to spray the red primer for the lower half. It has been my experience that when unmasking after the paint job that a visable line and thickness of the differant paint is promanant.  Would the covering in a clear coat fix that problem or just make it stand out more. I want to put a clear coat in satin over the whole boat. Also I hear various brands of clear coat and primers but they all seam to be UK only does anyone know of the Australian equivalent.

Sorry if some or all of these questions have been already covered.

Regards David

And this was the reply.



Right simple my friend one of Stav's top tips comming up,yes there is a distinct line between both primers BUT the remedy is simple as soon as you have damasked make sure you have a CLEAN finger does not matter which one and rub with finger along the  join this will flatten the join and will be practically impossible to detect the step.
Oh sorry nearly forgot I usually demask a max of 10 mins aftrer painting so i can do the above method ,and you have to be BRAVE AND GENTLE

Stavros

The reason why I posted on this thread was that I thought that it might contribute to the proceeding a little, getting rid of that little step that is left when removing the masking tape.  As Stavros has pointed out above the trick is to damask at the right time, when the paint is neither too soft nor too hard.

It works for me.

Paul
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on November 08, 2010, 10:43:39 AM
Re the magic finger, this is what I'm talking about...............this was the question

Hi all

Now I am swayed by all those who know what they are doing in regards to painting. It would seem that the greater majority on the forum use the grey primer as the paint of choice for Naval craft and the reddish primer for the water line or underside of the boat. Now me wanting to know everything before I start a project would like to know a few things. When you spray the boat with the grey primer you obviously spray the whole boat and then mask off the top half to spray the red primer for the lower half. It has been my experience that when unmasking after the paint job that a visable line and thickness of the differant paint is promanant.  Would the covering in a clear coat fix that problem or just make it stand out more. I want to put a clear coat in satin over the whole boat. Also I hear various brands of clear coat and primers but they all seam to be UK only does anyone know of the Australian equivalent.

Sorry if some or all of these questions have been already covered.

Regards David

And this was the reply.



Right simple my friend one of Stav's top tips comming up,yes there is a distinct line between both primers BUT the remedy is simple as soon as you have damasked make sure you have a CLEAN finger does not matter which one and rub with finger along the  join this will flatten the join and will be practically impossible to detect the step.
Oh sorry nearly forgot I usually demask a max of 10 mins aftrer painting so i can do the above method ,and you have to be BRAVE AND GENTLE

Stavros

The reason why I posted on this thread was that I thought that it might contribute to the proceeding a little, getting rid of that little step that is left when removing the masking tape.  As Stavros has pointed out above the trick is to damask at the right time, when the paint is neither too soft nor too hard.

It works for me.

Paul

Paul,

 :-)) :-)) :-))
Thank you.
Went looking for Stavros thread but couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on November 08, 2010, 11:04:07 AM
I stopped reading his threads after reading him telling people to use any electrical tape to mask with over new paint, I think he may have seen Professionals use plastic fine line tape which is a low tack and designed to be easily removed as opposed to permanent fix.

the problem you get on hear is that if someone offers the method they use and works for them  someone comes back and says  "my uncle Johny or whoever says your wrong"  etc



Peter

Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Chuffy on November 08, 2010, 03:52:21 PM
Errrrrrrm, just like your doing Peter ?

At the end of the day you take all the advice you can get, you try a few things out and if one little gem of wisdom  works for you that's the way you do it. If you choose to stop reading threads by a particular poster thats fine, if however, I choose to pass on the helpful (to me ) tips from the same poster then that by nature of the 'equation of debate',  must also be fine. This thread's going a bit off topic now and I'm sure that Richard has plenty to chew over, so over and out Biggles!
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 10, 2010, 08:41:46 AM
Saw an advert for this last night, anyone tried it?

http://www.frogtape.com/Products.aspx (http://www.frogtape.com/Products.aspx)
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: pugwash on December 10, 2010, 10:09:47 AM
Hi Martin never seen this one but it looks identical to the stuff I get from my local decorating shop and
which works very well and has lots of suppliers in U.K.

Geoff
http://www.cttgroup.com/cantech/en/products/52/3/104/
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: gwa84 on December 11, 2010, 01:17:32 AM
i use this stuff on petrol tanks for fine masking gives a very crisp line and doesn't peal away fresh painted surfaces  :-))

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Masking-Tape-Micro-Low-Residue-Blue-3-Rolls-x-2mm-/250730901924?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item3a60b9f1a4
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: stag 707 on March 06, 2011, 09:31:07 PM
Hello All
Please excuse this daft question but when painting the water line, is it better to paint the (white) water line first then mask, and then paint the top and bottom colours, or paint the top and bottom colours first then mask , and then paint the ( white) waterline. {:-{ {:-{
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Stavros on March 06, 2011, 09:46:28 PM
To be perfectly honest with you it doesn't really matter.my Personal choice is to put the waterline on last.BUT if you are doing this the make sure you use a proper tape to mask it up.
TOP TIP

Get some 1/4 inch INSULATING tape,available form most electrical suppliers,use this FIRST to mark the waterline then apply a std masking tape on top of this and then mask up the rest of the hull.NOW within around 5 to 10 Min's of spraying the white waterline DEMASK the whole lot ,This is where you have to be VERY BRAVE and have CLEAN fingers.As soon as you have removed all the tape run your finger along the waterline where the raised edge is,what this will do is flatten the ridge of paint making it less obvious.Trust me it works...ask TUG KENNY on here

Stav
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: oldiron on March 06, 2011, 10:05:11 PM
Hello All
Please excuse this daft question but when painting the water line, is it better to paint the (white) water line first then mask, and then paint the top and bottom colours, or paint the top and bottom colours first then mask , and then paint the ( white) waterline. {:-{ {:-{

Personally, I feel its better to paint the water line first. Its usually white, and is therefore an easier colour to cover than the usual black or red for above and below the water line. Too, your masking tape can be purchased at the correct , consistent width, to mask off the water line with a constant width. That's very hard to do with separate pieces of masking segregating the upper and lower colours. Doing it this way you tend to end up with a boot line of varying widths around the vessel.

John
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: stag 707 on March 06, 2011, 10:27:21 PM
Hello All
Please excuse this daft question but when painting the water line, is it better to paint the (white) water line first then mask, and then paint the top and bottom colours, or paint the top and bottom colours first then mask , and then paint the ( white) waterline. {:-{ {:-{

Thanks Guys for the prompt reply
I'm about to paint the hull of sir Walter Raleigh, rover red below the waterline, and Brunswick green above with a white boot topping, I think I'm going to go for the paint the water line last method so I am able to remove the twin (Tamiya) masking tape while the paint is still tacky and use the finger method  :-)
Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 06, 2011, 10:35:09 PM
I am building Sir Walter Raleigh at the moment and used Trimiine tape for the waterline and for the riband around the top of the hull.

Much easier!

Colin

Title: Re: Masking Tape Trials and Tribulations
Post by: stag 707 on March 06, 2011, 10:41:41 PM
Nice Job so far Colin like the door detail