Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Painting, Finishing and Care. => Topic started by: kiwi96 on November 09, 2010, 10:51:31 AM

Title: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: kiwi96 on November 09, 2010, 10:51:31 AM
I  like the Humbrol paints. Lately when using them ( last few Years anyway) no matter how long I shake / stir them , when using a new tin the first half always goes on  a bit glossy. Any ideas. Need to stir more???. Mainly 128 as battleships use a lot. Changing to WEM paints but still awaiting orders as out of stock and I think first part lost in post as over 5 weeks now. Need to place new one soon.
Cheers.
Adrian.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: essex2visuvesi on November 09, 2010, 11:24:52 AM
I've been having the same issue with humbrol 72 needs a bloody good shake (at least 5 mins)  before using.

bear in mind tho once the tin is half empty the paint moves inside the tin more when shook
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Liverbudgie on November 09, 2010, 12:05:12 PM

Adrian,

You don't say what type your are using is it enamel or acrylic, gloss, satin or matt?

Most paints do need a lot of stirring especially if they have been in stock for a long period. I use a stout stick or metal rod to shift any stubborn stuff at the bottom of the container and continue to stir until the paint is smooth and even in colour as well as texture.

Have you tried any of the other makes apart from WEM ,which are expensive for large amounts?  I have been using Revell acrylic for sometime and I find this sprays on extremely well, with good coverage and you only have to thin it with a small amount of water. Tamiya are also good but again are not cheap.

LB
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Watchleader on November 09, 2010, 12:20:38 PM
This paint is excellent quality BUT does need thorough mixing as it may have stood for quite while since manufacture, or since it has stood on your shelf.
Shaking is not sufficient even if you do have "wrestlers wrists". <:( <:(
The only effective way of fully mixing is to stir vigorously.
This is not easy with these little tinlets, so go along to one of these cheapie shops and get a battery operated "expresso stirrer", cut off the rather elaborate wire whisk on the end and modify (bend) it into a hook shape.
Keep this hook small, about 6mm wide and 6mm long is ample.
Bend the hook back a little, (a bit like the shape on a kitchen mixer dough hook) to balance the hook so that it does not vibrate when operated. The shaft should stay in line.
This when used, will mix the paint thoroughly.  :-)) :-))
I made mine a couple of years ago and its still on its first battery. One AA size alkaline. O0 O0
 
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Bunkerbarge on November 09, 2010, 01:09:17 PM
When you think you've mixed it enough, do the same amount of time again, at least, plus some more!!  After all you can't over mix it can you?

I use a combination of heavy wire in a battery drill and wooden coffee stirers.  They are particularly good because having a large flat area they really move the paint around the tin.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Shipmate60 on November 09, 2010, 05:50:47 PM
I now use a badger paint mixer, wouldnt be without it now.
Page 271  : http://www.squirestools.com/11-18a.pdf

Bob
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Stan on November 09, 2010, 06:54:32 PM
Hi Guy's  I use a home made paint paddle this fits in my  small drill . This is far better than stood there stirring away with a cocktail stick. White ensign paints from my experience do not like been thinned with white spirit.The paint tends to go in to a solid mess use a good thinner to thin Humbrol or Perkins. You may find that once Humbrol paints are opened any paint left in the tin skins over very quickly this did not happen with the Old Humbrol paints.I store all my part empty tins upside down this seems to stop them skinning over.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: kiwi96 on November 09, 2010, 09:27:43 PM
Many thansk for all replies.
I am using enamals.
I stirr so that all solids on bottom are gone and paint is running free with no traces of un mixed paint. Will try the espresso stirrer. As I have a large area to do could I dispence a few tins into a larger jar and then continue to mix. This way I will have a bigger BATCH to use so may not be such a bigger problem.
Thanks.
Adrian.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: triumphjon on November 09, 2010, 09:35:51 PM
its just not as good as it used to be !
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: John @ WEM on November 16, 2010, 02:29:09 PM
Humbrol is now made in China,  with resulting problems in both formula and colour consistency.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: bobk on June 03, 2011, 09:11:04 PM
As I see from this thread I am not the only one having problems with Humbrol paints.  40 odd years ago it covered in one coat, matt went nicely matt in under half an hour, provided of course a lot of vigorous tin shaking AND stirring well after opening.

After a lot of detail scratch-work on building a new set of ships boats for my WW1 cruiser I have started to re-stock with the familiar trusty tinlets.  Detail is Plasticard and Plastruct sections.  Never used to 'react' with Humbrol.

Using matt No 26 Khaki and a small brush I started the basic 'wood' painting to the interiors.  Went on highly patchy, still tacky after 24 hours, and more gloss than matt. 

Got a new tinlet, a lot more shaking, and loads of stirring with a wooden coffee stirrer.  Five hours later, just as bad.
Any ideas or advice guys?
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: pugwash on June 03, 2011, 10:53:37 PM
Bob I usually prime plasticard with acryic primer from a spray can and have no trouble with
Humbrol  sticking or drying.

Geoff
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: bobk on June 03, 2011, 11:29:59 PM
Thanks Geoff.  I will try that (when it eventually dries !)  Strange, never had problems with ABS before, maybe the modern Humbrol has changed.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: mickyrubble on June 04, 2011, 06:48:37 PM
Hi,
i too think that Humbrol just isn't the paint it used to be.Now i mainly use Revel.
 O0 O0 O0 O0

 
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: john s 2 on June 04, 2011, 07:00:35 PM
It appears that like a lot of other paints on the market. That Humbrol is not as well formulated as it used to be.
I have found that it does not appear to have as much pigment, resulting in poorer coverage. John.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: bobk on June 04, 2011, 07:44:56 PM
If that is the case, sad.  Funny, but it no longer even smells the same.  I got another tinlet, and that came out the same.  Tonight I opened a No 5 gloss grey.  Even after massive shaking and stirring it looked bright duck egg blue in the tin, so I put the lid back on.

Decades ago one of my main pleasures in model making was the fine detail paintwork I could achieve.  (See my old Apollo scratch-build from  ABS photo on my K Class submarine thread.)   I am truly flummoxed.   <:(
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: bobk on June 04, 2011, 08:08:45 PM
Sorry to post twice, but some photo illustration of my problem is required.
a)  'Matt Kharki' ships boats.  2 coats.  Also shown is No 5 Gloss Grey, which is bright duck egg blue!

(http://s2.postimage.org/2p3d0irj8/Paint_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2p3d0irj8/)  (click to enlarge)
 
b) My previous scratch built model painting, log time ago,  using the 'same' paints.

(http://s2.postimage.org/2p41tkyxw/Apollo_b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2p41tkyxw/)
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: john s 2 on June 04, 2011, 09:10:03 PM
Knowing what some Chinese products are like possibly the mixer is colour blind. Probably cheaper to employ
John.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on June 04, 2011, 11:22:06 PM
It would not be suprising to discover that the formula has indeed changed.
Especially in view of the current trend of the banning of long used chemicals for environmetal reasons.
As the ads goes 'Oils aint Oils'
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: essex2visuvesi on June 04, 2011, 11:30:22 PM
yes its true they dont smell the same! nor are they the same colours

I did a test peice tonight with some Humbrol number 21 gloss black... one tin is at least 20 years old maybe more and the other was purchased recenly

The old tin had better cover and obliteration and at the moment has a better "glossy" finish and the black is a different shade

Ill try to post up pictures tommorow

It looks like the same is true of Revell paints too
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: bobk on June 05, 2011, 12:51:33 AM
It is probably true that H&S legislation may have excluded certain formula components, in which case maybe the modern paints are the best that can be produced under current EU laws.  I remember when lead based exterior house paint covered better and lasted much longer  than modern alternatives.

I just tried Matt White on the hull undersides, which was a lot better, and dried matt in under an hour.  However, it will need another coat to cover properly.  Thoroughly mixed they all seem thinner consistency than I remember.  It will be a real bind to use multiple coats when I get down to very fine detailing.

Essex2visuvesi:   20 years old?  I really regret throwing away my huge collection of paints at a time when I did not foresee taking this up again.  Same goes for all my model making tools that I am gradually having to replace.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: colin on June 05, 2011, 07:01:24 PM
This paint is excellent quality BUT does need thorough mixing as it may have stood for quite while since manufacture, or since it has stood on your shelf.
Shaking is not sufficient even if you do have "wrestlers wrists". <:( <:(
The only effective way of fully mixing is to stir vigorously.
This is not easy with these little tinlets, so go along to one of these cheapie shops and get a battery operated "expresso stirrer", cut off the rather elaborate wire whisk on the end and modify (bend) it into a hook shape.
Keep this hook small, about 6mm wide and 6mm long is ample.
Bend the hook back a little, (a bit like the shape on a kitchen mixer dough hook) to balance the hook so that it does not vibrate when operated. The shaft should stay in line.
This when used, will mix the paint thoroughly.  :-)) :-))
I made mine a couple of years ago and its still on its first battery. One AA size alkaline. O0 O0
 
Ikea have the coffee battery stirrers in if you live near at 1.19 just remove the spring and they work a treat, switch of before removing from paint. I know obvious but simple mistake and pebbled finish on everything within range.


Regards
Colin
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: colin on June 06, 2011, 06:42:14 PM
Ikea have the battery coffee frothers at 1.19 just remove the spring and they work great.

Regards
Colin
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: gregk9 on June 11, 2011, 10:56:38 AM
Why not drop a small metal nut or bolt or screw in to the paint tin, replace the lid, then give the tin a dam good shake about, till the rattle noise gets really clear, then remove the lid and use the paint.

its saves trying to stir a full tin, which can cause spillage if you are not careful, its not messy, easy to do , plus you simply shake the tin before each use to ensure full mixing. then once empty, you transfer the "shake weight" you used  in to a fresh tin of same colour to prevent colour bleed .

Paint mixers are good, dont get me wrong, but just look at all the cleaning of kit you have to do afterwards, that uses more rags, thinners and time than really necessary.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: bobk on June 11, 2011, 02:37:54 PM
That sounds a good idea.  Strange, but the problem was worst when the tins were new, after the level dropped a bit it was less problematical.  Maybe they are using a larger proportion of thinners now, and once there is more airspace to shake and stir in it seems to mix better.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on June 11, 2011, 11:14:22 PM
Why not drop a small metal nut or bolt or screw in to the paint tin, replace the lid, then give the tin a dam good shake about, till the rattle noise gets really clear, then remove the lid and use the paint.

its saves trying to stir a full tin, which can cause spillage if you are not careful, its not messy, easy to do , plus you simply shake the tin before each use to ensure full mixing. then once empty, you transfer the "shake weight" you used  in to a fresh tin of same colour to prevent colour bleed .

Paint mixers are good, dont get me wrong, but just look at all the cleaning of kit you have to do afterwards, that uses more rags, thinners and time than really necessary.
This idea is used in commercial spray cans and works well.  O0 O0
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Tug-Kenny on April 16, 2012, 10:33:57 AM

I am having trouble also with my  NEW  Humbrol tinlets.

It really is very weak when the first coat goes on.  So much so, that the original under surface still shows.  I used both  Black  and  White yesterday and the coverage leaves a lot to be desired on both of them.

Is there any way of thickening it please ??   I've tried leaving the lid off all day but no results yet.  The results are very smooth and show no brush marks so I've done it again today and left it in the sunshine.  Hopefully this will dry it quicker before it all runs away again.   {:-{


ken
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: essex2visuvesi on April 16, 2012, 12:11:40 PM
I am having trouble also with my  NEW  Humbrol tinlets.

It really is very weak when the first coat goes on.  So much so, that the original under surface still shows.  I used both  Black  and  White yesterday and the coverage leaves a lot to be desired on both of them.

Is there any way of thickening it please ??   I've tried leaving the lid off all day but no results yet.  The results are very smooth and show no brush marks so I've done it again today and left it in the sunshine.  Hopefully this will dry it quicker before it all runs away again.   {:-{


ken


I had the same issue with my last couple of tins I bought.
I'm thinking since they moved production to the land of the rising noodle the QC has slipped a little
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Bob K on April 16, 2012, 12:21:07 PM
Kenny:  IMHO Humbrol paints are nothing like they were 40 years ago.  (See my reply #10 above).  I have even had two that were totally different colours from the lid ID after opening.  There may be a problem if the stock is old as I have had several that are 80% thinners and 20% very thick sediment.  In this case I have decanted out some of the thinners before mixing, which seems to help.

In my teen building days these always mixed nicely and most often covered in one coat, drying reasonably quickly.  Now browns white and black seem to need several coats.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: DickyD on April 16, 2012, 12:54:23 PM
Their acrylics are just as bad, it took 4 coats of light grey to almost cover dark grey ABS.   >>:-(
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Tug-Kenny on April 16, 2012, 09:34:24 PM

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.  It's definitely horrible paint. I've also had to put several coats on which considering the parts were tiny, now looks a  'blobby finish'.   <:(


ken
 
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: essex2visuvesi on April 17, 2012, 06:52:09 AM
Ive started moving over to valejo acrylics now
http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/index.html

and for enamels it seems Revell paints are actually now better than Humbrol  :o
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: Neil on April 17, 2012, 09:21:46 AM
I used Humbrol acrylic for the first time a couple of weeks ago on my lifeboats, and the finish was c***........I'll never use that again.

I have also noticed that with the enamel paint which I use almost all the time, the satin and matt finishes also give a gloss until the paint has been used and opened to the air for some time.

To stir my paint I use a small electric 12volt drill on 6 volts, with a wire "curlyjig"    attached and stir with that for a good 5 minutes, and then l leave the lid off for a couple of hours (if it's a new tin) before finally wisking it up again and using..............it seams to work and gets rid of the gloss effect.

Neil.
Title: Re: Humbrol paint trouble!!
Post by: scoop on April 17, 2012, 09:47:10 AM
Ive started moving over to valejo acrylics now
http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/index.html

and for enamels it seems Revell paints are actually now better than Humbrol  :o
For large area's I use Halfords car paint, brilliant stuff, they don't do 'battleship grey' though the matt grey primer is a pretty good colour match for hulls.  :-)) Then again I might be a tad on the colour blind side  :} {-) {-)
Scoop