Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: LarryW on November 16, 2010, 02:59:10 PM

Title: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 16, 2010, 02:59:10 PM
hi all just started to build the fun build of the pirete ship black rose from  mmi plan
 looking to puting rc  any body doing the same build?........larry :-)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 16, 2010, 06:25:31 PM
Hi Larry,
Good to see you intend to build the "Black Rose" as r/c. May there be a whole fleet soon in existence around the world.
I have started to convert the prototype "Black Rose" (yes the one in the MMI article) to r/c. Fortunately r/c was always planned so access and other bits where built in from the start. Just awaiting for the receiver to arrive, and in the meantime have done some alterations to the sails. Have moved the lower mainsail forward to replace the forward lower sail. Will make a new quite larger mainsail. Also be adding wee LED lanterns to the cabin and deck areas. She now sports her  figurehead which is missing from the photos in MMI.
Hope you enjoy your build as much as I did, and please post photos.
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 16, 2010, 07:08:36 PM
Any chance of some photos ----I rebuilt the toy Pirate ship Kings Ransom as a 16th Century Barque rigged Priveteer ---[Know Named Fire Drake], Photos are posted in the thread "Briganteen Freebooter"  under Yachts and Sail R & D
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 16, 2010, 07:58:40 PM
hi me again pleased to a reply from you kiwi,aim new to model building if you call 74 years new its the first time i have tackled multi sail , i
  am member of clevendon mbc so i will get some good help from my fellow members .
 photos will be posted soon, just finished the hull bit now working the deck structure ,looking for more pictures on what goes where ,
 guns are built and ready for action <*<  cheers me Arte's aarrre Larry
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 16, 2010, 08:37:07 PM
(http://s1.postimage.org/2ql5m6l1g/BLK_ROSE.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2ql5m6l1g/)
 GUNS  AND OTHER  BITS......
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 16, 2010, 11:42:07 PM
Hi,
Nicely made guns and other bits Larry. And Jimmy your builds are all for us mere mortals, to aspire to. Love them all.
Some deck photos of my "Black Rose" to follow. But remember, the plans are just a guide, you all "do your own thing with imagination working overtime".
Keep them photos coming all who are building BR.
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 16, 2010, 11:45:44 PM
main deck
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 17, 2010, 08:12:11 PM
Looks like an inspiring model.  O0 I shall watch this thread with great interest
 :-))
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: essex2visuvesi on November 18, 2010, 06:02:08 AM
hi all just started to build the fun build of the pirete ship black rose from  mmi plan
 looking to puting rc  any body doing the same build?........larry :-)

What issue was it.

My Wife wants me to build her an RC model of the black pearl so it could be a good starting point
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 18, 2010, 06:36:35 AM
Hi,
MMI November 2010
Reduced size drawings are the centre spread, and full size prints are available from MMI.
Enlarging ratio if you wish to is on the contents page.
Remember to post photos should you build your version of her.
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 18, 2010, 02:32:02 PM

(http://s2.postimage.org/224o9ys84/black_rose_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/224o9ys84/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/2268i8l0k/black_rose.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2268i8l0k/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/226u083fo/black_rose.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/226u083fo/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/2278w27vo/blackrose.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2278w27vo/)
 hi heres my build so far, planking decks now ....coffee stirrers   also rc access under grid deck ,rudder servo under capstan ,Hull conjunction  is a mix of card mount and balsa, plan is in November mmi ,i photo copied on to a3 then up to 24in , any good photocopy shop will do it for you . get a few copy's of bulkheads to make templates ,stick on to card ,i do this on all my builds , and knock up card model ,.....
 it help see what it sort looks like ,and being new modeling ican mock up my RC bits ...... hope this helps  :-))cheers Larry
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 18, 2010, 05:38:03 PM
Hi Larry,
very nice build, keep up the good work.
One thing I did, which isn't on the plans, or in the text, is to build into the keel, lots of lead shot and ball sinkers, as I didn't want to have any external or extended keel.
On mine, I used 6mm balsa for the keel, drilled rows of holes and glued a couple of shot into each hole. The balls are fishing sinkers about 10mm dia, and similarly glued into place before planking.  Propably a better solition to the larger sinkers I used when I ballasted her down would be lead flashing laid along the inside planking next to the keel.  An alternative would be to actually have a lead bar set into the bottom of the keel.
Mine was all balsa construction, with dowel masts, and a chopstick for bowsprit. The wee boat from card. Use whatever materials and methods suit you.
Well done, looking good
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 18, 2010, 07:06:57 PM
It's a very shapely Hull --- sort of Dutch look in her lines--- Could I ask her dimension's IE: Length, Beam, over all Hight [keel to main truck]
Freebooter
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 18, 2010, 07:09:10 PM
hi thanks for nice coments, i intend to put a bolt on keel when riged . .......larry
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 19, 2010, 07:38:16 AM
Hi Jimmy,
lHULL ength between perpendiculars=24"
o/a length=32'
BEAM=8"
O/A HEIGHT=24"
She's not modelled on any particular ship, all pure fantacy but ideas from a number of real ships.
Mark wanted a pirate ship, dark, old, worn and menacing. What he got was "Black Rose". As I had a 2 month time frame to build her, I only did a rough sketch and started building, developing as it went. Didn't meet the deadline by a month, sailed her and then drew the drawings and took the photos. Sort of wanted something between "Flying Dutchman" and "Black Pearl" from "pirates of the Caribbean".
She's simplified and I probably got a whole lot of things wrong, and would welcome any constructive comments re getting it better, from yourself or any other experienced  seamen.
She was designed and built as a fun and easily built model to take down the pond and 'windle'.
Anyone who builds one is encouraged to 'do their thing' and have have fun
Anyone wants to build her, there is of course the centrefold plan, which can be photocopied and I believe prints are available from MMI, and failing that, pm me and I will see you right for a free updated copy.

cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Edward Pinniger on November 19, 2010, 05:52:29 PM
One thing I did, which isn't on the plans, or in the text, is to build into the keel, lots of lead shot and ball sinkers, as I didn't want to have any external or extended keel.

Are you building your model as R/C sail, or motorised?
The reason I ask is, I took a similar approach with my 1830s merchant schooner (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1283165) - internal ballast and no external keel - and found that, whilst the boat was quite stable on the water, it "crabbed" - i.e. got blown sideways by the wind - badly, due to not having sufficient lateral resistance. This is despite having a typically deep and slab-sided 1800s merchant ship hull form. I've since added a removable keel (and rudder extension)  but have not had the chance to test the model with this fitted to see if it gives any improvement in sailing qualities!

If you've successfully used this "internal ballast only" setup before, do you have any tips for getting it to work more effectively?

BTW, I'd definitely be interested in an updated copy of the "Black Rose" plan; it's a very nice looking design that looks like it might have potential for conversion to a (non-piratical!) small merchant or naval galleon from the 16th-early 17th century. I saw the plans at the Warwickshire show but didn't buy them as I wasn't aware at the time it was designed for R/C!
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 19, 2010, 08:08:14 PM
Kiwi
She seams to be close to Fire Drakes size and on her I used two deck capstans.[2 x 100/1 geared motors mounted on the under side of a hatch with the spindle comming up through the deck and the capstan barrel put directly on the spindle]  The forward one controlled the foremast  yards and the spirit sails & spirit top sail [the foreyard was linked to the spirit & spirit topsail yards via a crows foot tackle] The after capstan controlled the main yards [and if needed linked to the mizzen yards As Fire Drake was a Barque not a ship she had no mizzen yards except for the lateen which was self tacking. Check Thread Yachts and Sail R&D    Brigantine Freebooter there are some diagrams and plans, If you need any more info PM me and I will help as much as I can... This is a systime I have used for years... I like it because like a real ship all the rigging is on deck so is easy to repair or modify... also the capstans give loads of power
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 19, 2010, 08:55:14 PM

(http://s4.postimage.org/2lyuxo5pg/DSC8577.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lyuxo5pg/)

(http://s4.postimage.org/2lz37cw6c/DSC8580.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lz37cw6c/)

(http://s4.postimage.org/2lzi370mc/DSC8578.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lzi370mc/)
  hi decks planked ,deck accesses  added .rudder next and captains cabin ..........larry
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 20, 2010, 05:13:30 PM
hi all looking to press gang a scurvy crew for black rose do you no where ?  <*<larry



Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on November 20, 2010, 06:47:42 PM
car boot sales , charity shops , or the second hand toy shops . ive taken to getting many of my crew from a local second hand toy shop normally only pay around a pound for two or three figures !
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 20, 2010, 07:03:10 PM
Hi Larry,
Coming along very nicely.
My crew where around 1/48th scale, and I just used some toy plastic soldiers from the $2 shop (equivalent to your pound shop), and undertook some surgery with the knife, and a bit of paint slapped on. Nothing flash, but look of on the model.
cheers
HarryD
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: hollowhornbear on November 20, 2010, 08:03:02 PM
I so must build me one of these.  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 20, 2010, 08:09:05 PM
ps
crew $2 for 60 awaiting surgery
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 20, 2010, 08:11:14 PM
ooops
please delete duplicate photo
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Tug-Kenny on November 20, 2010, 09:03:11 PM

Hi Kiwi

It is possible to delete yourself WITHIN the first half hour of posting. All you have to do is click on MODIFY and untick the picture in the options below your message.

Of course it's too late by now, so a moderator has to do it.   8)

I'm doing it all the time as I correct my spillin mistakes.   %)

Ken

Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 20, 2010, 09:27:37 PM
Hi Ken,
Usually do that, but the wee modify tag is not appearing on my screen any more.
Not all that computer literate, so don't know why.
thanks
kiwi

ps edit
well blow me down, it worked this time, why not on my last 3 posts, as I did check then straight after I posted?
Me and computers not always compatible.
cheers
kiwi

pps edit
for those after the "Black Rose" modified drawings, they will be a few days as I generate full size (in this case B1) drawings as one PDF file at work, and  they have just upgraded to a different PDF generator, and so I have to relearn the ropes again, as the new one is so much more difficult to use. Gone from two click's to 5 or 6 different screens. Well they tell me its progress and the end result is better, will reserve judgement until I see the results. Will also have a fiddle with some suggestions from Jimmy James (thanks for them JJ nice and simple and different to what I had in mind), re controlling the sails, so will see how we go and maybe issue a further sheet with my results. Anyone thinking of R/c ing the BR should have a read through Jimmy's threads, very informative and practicle from a very experienced seaman modeler
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 21, 2010, 09:27:56 AM
hi kwiwi i see you are going to modify br drawings , what changes are you going to do?....
  hi tug kenny thinking of begoming a pirate/ {-) but beware of the john king ok2.....larry
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 21, 2010, 09:41:16 AM
Hi Larry,
Only minor modes. Have moved the mainsail from the main (central mast) to the lower foreward mast. That foreward sail is now a spare, and made a much larger mainsail, with more belly. Just looks a lot better. When I've done my r/c installation will include these as well on a third sheet, haven't done this as will be having a go at incorpoating some suggestions by Jimmy James, and use the existing Capstain etc. I'll be fitting 2.4MHz gear.
But this may not be complete until after Christmas. I have already amended the drawings with the larger sails etc, so will send these to you in a couple of days if you wish
Love what you have done so far, I'm most impressed with your build
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: hollowhornbear on November 21, 2010, 10:42:31 AM
Hi  all,
Larry looking good in fact fantastic  :-))  :-))  :-))
Kiwi will the RC be able to be retro fitted or best fitted during the build?
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 21, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
thank you press gang ed crew from pound shop ,will mould them into shape .over christmas  ,yes i would be interested in mods..........larry. :-))
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Tug-Kenny on November 21, 2010, 09:42:14 PM

Very interesting subject eh Larry  :-))   Don't seem to have much spare time  though   8)

Keep at the computer Kiwi, your doing great.    ok2

ken

Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Boy From the Bay on November 22, 2010, 04:31:06 AM
Hi Kiwi

Great job, I love the details too.

When painting figures I use a dirty paintbrush/thinners to give muted colors. It kills the strong color and I think this gives more realistic effects.

Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 22, 2010, 09:23:55 AM
hi good tip i do the same its a thing we used to do at art sc hool just using 1 brush wiped on cloth to get distresed look , on building s and objects ,
   i use this a lot to dirty up my tugs and fishing boats .  :-) larry
(http://s1.postimage.org/s29rtwsk/charlock_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s29rtwsk/)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 23, 2010, 08:06:02 PM
Kiwi
No rush but if you've got a time could you send me a plan.
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 24, 2010, 12:02:09 AM
Hi Jimmy,
sorry been having trouble downloading.
Have sent them to Martin for forwarding on to yourself.
Hope you get them soon
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 24, 2010, 09:53:37 AM
hi there jimmy the plan is mmi November issue , tells you what you want , take it to any photo copy shop and will do the rest.
 i have a copy on A3  if this will help......... Larry.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 25, 2010, 08:20:28 PM

(http://s1.postimage.org/1nr9molz8/DSC8582.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1nr9molz8/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/1nrv4o4ec/DSC8583.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1nrv4o4ec/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/1ns3ecuv8/DSC8584.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1ns3ecuv8/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/ftkfbfdw/DSC8586.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ftkfbfdw/)

(http://s1.postimage.org/1nv2waeys/DSC8587.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1nv2waeys/)
HI THERE paint going on, pi cs of the build so far to cold in work shed ,. heater broke , will start rigging and dead eyes when i the info :-))...LARRY
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 26, 2010, 08:04:36 PM
Hi Jimmy,
Martin has very kindly sent the PDF of the "Black Rose" plans onto you.
I can't load them via the forum, so emailed them to Martin.
Hope they arrived ok, and haven't gone 'walkabout' in the internet as some of mine have done in the past. Have had the odd email which simply vanished into the ether.
cheers
HarryD
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 26, 2010, 08:17:53 PM
hi kiwi nice to seeback on line ,are updates ready ? working on dead eyes and rigging now bought dead eyes at local model shop,
but a  job threading them on my 20th attempt trying to make up a jig got any tips?..... {:-{ using shearing thread as suggested .......cheers LARRY.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 26, 2010, 08:54:05 PM
Kiwi, Larry and DE rest of DE mob
 Thanks gang I got the plans --- I shall probably have a go at her in the mid new year... I've got a lot on my plate at the moment so can't get started right away...
This hull looks a bit slippery and I think she should be pretty fast in a 16th century sort of way.  But I think personally I shall lose the mizzen top sail in favour of a settee lateen and make the main and fore topsail yards a bit narrower like this
(http://s4.postimage.org/unprvpk4/Test_Sails.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/unprvpk4/)
  This model has a lot of potential  and should be fun to sail.....
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 26, 2010, 09:01:09 PM
The above posted picture is an unfinished model of Firedrake with a scrap set of test canvas , She is a little larger than the Rose
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 26, 2010, 09:53:49 PM
Larry I rig my dead eyes like this  and usually use 1mm braided waxed line--- if I use shop bought dead eyes I redrill the holes to 1.5mm I allways think the shop ones are too small ---But ---thats me all over---differnt ships different long splices ....I could never get on with jigs (Hands to big brain too small) so I rig mine the way I did it aboard ship fitted the deadeyes and then rove off the lanyards that way I could get the lanyards tight ...a good tip when doing any rigging is to thread it through a needle or at least stiffen the end with glue
Jimmy
(http://s1.postimage.org/1xnr91q2s/dead_eyes_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1xnr91q2s/)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on November 27, 2010, 12:40:16 AM
Hi Larry & Jimmy,
Haven't had a chance to work on my "Black Rose", or do any further drawing, and it will stay that way until further into the new year. Just to much on at the moment, unfortunately.
I do my deadeyes similar to Jimmy, except that I use sheering elastic to thread them, which gives a bit of tension and also a bit of give if knocked.
The shrouds/stays (correct me if I=that's not what they are called, but the wire/rope from the top deadeye to the mast), I use black linen thread. This is about the same diameter at the sheering elastic.
I did try making the stays out of sheering elasic but over time they sag a bit.
I made my own deadeyes (punched from two different thicknesses of card thinner for the outer parts and a thicker inner piece. I drill the 3 holes at least 1mm dia and apply a bit of glue to the end of the thread to form a sort of needle to the end of the fhread.
One difference to how Jimmy does it (his is the correct way), is to put a cleat on the niboard side of the bulwarks, just above the deack and hitch all the deadeye lacing to these. Then they can be tightened up as needed. I also have a couple of pairs of tweezers hand as my large fingers keep getting in the way.
Jimmy, I think you could be right re the aft mast sails, and like your sail set on the Fire Drake, very nice boat.
With the "Black Rose" I encourage everyone to use their imagination and do their own thing to make it "Their Boat", as long as everyone posts plenty of photos, please.
cheers
HarryD
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on November 27, 2010, 04:14:13 PM
hi jimmy your the man thanks for info drawing ,it helped alot this my first attempt at multi sail ,i am complete beginner to .model boating
you no your stuff on multi sail oldy world ships. by the  way  did you get get your copy of black rose if not i have copy if you need it . :-)) LARRY.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 27, 2010, 07:44:25 PM
Thanks Larry , I have a copy
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on November 29, 2010, 09:08:12 PM
Larry you saw the pictures of the cannon I use ...they are normal model brass guns or carrionads .. I bore them out to 4mm and then bore a 2nd x 1.5mm hole in the breach of the gun (as the gun has virtually no pressure on it when fired you don't need a heavy weight of metal also there is no recoil) in UK you can buy party poppers in most super markets ...To charge the guns i stick a bit of fuse wire through the breach and pick up the firing string on the popper the gun is then put in position and the firing cord (or cords) are attached to a servo ... when the servo is activated it pull the string ... for more smoke put a bit of talc down the muzzle
 For more modern turret guns use 4mm brass tube ,cap the end and drill a 1.5mm hole in the breach Turrets with 2 or 3 guns in them should have the firing cords slightly different lengths ...the same applies if you are firing broad sides
Jimmy

(http://s3.postimage.org/2o3rbodl0/guns_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2o3rbodl0/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/2o3waaf2c/guns_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2o3waaf2c/)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 02, 2010, 12:16:47 PM

(http://s2.postimage.org/1yzm8z4is/DSC8589.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1yzm8z4is/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/1z0b21bxg/DSC8590.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1z0b21bxg/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/1z13668bo/DSC8596.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1z13668bo/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/1z2gsan50/DSC8594.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1z2gsan50/)
 hi more pics frigging with rigging and great cabin moving to yard arm nest , hope this goes well dead eyes and rigging was hard......Larry {:-{
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 02, 2010, 03:56:33 PM
are you leaving your model with the masts and rigging in place all of the time ?
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 02, 2010, 04:32:40 PM
hi yes it will be on show in dinning room  when not sailing if it sails ,  ... larry .
        PS. :-) will start the narrow boat in the new year when the weather gets better ....... O0
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 02, 2010, 04:45:55 PM
i was wondering how the narrowboat was progressing , now i know ! just wondred weather you were leaving your black rose rigged at all times , but as its going to sit on display it will . are you just relying on sail power or have you fitted a motor for assistance , there are a couple of lakes in your part of the world that your not able to wade into should the model get becalmed !
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 02, 2010, 07:59:17 PM
hi no motor just sail ,only sail clevendon, so bother it as contact all round ,ST George PARK not safe now ,crack alley,   :((....larry.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 02, 2010, 10:03:49 PM
its become a drug haven for the local numb nuts then ? when i was modelling in bristol i normally used eastville on a sunday afternoon , although ive tried many of the other culb waters around bristol , some of which are quite good for sailing . the "lake " at clevedon (salthouse ) was where i used to test my ic powerboats mid week during the summer evenings when there was water in it ! and long before anybody had thought of having a model club there . there used to be quite a scale gathering at portishead lake which was one morning during the week & a sunday morning , had a good deal of wind off the eastury too . weston on the mud was another good sized pool next to knightstone island but you had to be careful of the tide as it makes the pool into the bristol channel at high water , i know this first hand as it claimed my first spearfish ic boat !  jon
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 03, 2010, 11:16:27 AM
hi ready to rig haven't a clue" HELP/" {:-{
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 03, 2010, 11:34:49 AM

(http://s2.postimage.org/270rdhgo4/DSC8598.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/270rdhgo4/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/270wc3i5g/DSC8599.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/270wc3i5g/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/272d9alyc/DSC8600.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/272d9alyc/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/272i7wnfo/DSC8602.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/272i7wnfo/)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: hollowhornbear on December 03, 2010, 03:07:33 PM
looking good your sure build quick.  :-))
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 03, 2010, 03:33:08 PM
thank you hollowhornbear the weather as helped this time, bit house bound at the moment , also i build a lot with mount board........larry.. O0
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 03, 2010, 04:21:29 PM
thats looking good , what are you stuck with ?
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 03, 2010, 08:02:21 PM
hi all thank you for info lots to mullover, but there ,s not a lot room in hull,  :(( there must be a simple way  O0...Larry.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 03, 2010, 08:58:46 PM
what are you looking for a simple way of solving ?
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 03, 2010, 09:03:47 PM
hi Jon sail control is what I'm after ........Larry
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 03, 2010, 09:20:20 PM
does the plan state weather its a drum winch or a sail arm ? both of my sailing boats use an arm to control my sheets , the 1om has a purpose built sail arm servo whereas my newly built wee nip has a standard servo with a long plywood extension screwed onto the original servo horn ! its fairly cheap AND IT WORKS  .
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 03, 2010, 10:00:08 PM
hi Jon no detail on it was built as free sailer so its a open book .....LARRY.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 03, 2010, 10:26:36 PM
so you have an opening in the deck , with a space in which to fit some control gear ? you need two standard servos , a receiver and a set of receiver batteries , my nip has the two servos on a ply panel inside the hull with the rx &battery pack inside of a small food pot fitted through the deck , ch 1 is rudder control , need as straight a line from the rudder to servo as possible , then my arm for the sail control is about 3 3/4 inch centres and about 4 1/4 inches long . line from the outer end of the arm running towards the stern then up through the deck and back towards the bows / mast (s) you then need to attach this running line to the boom / jib . i use my sail control on a ratcheted stick on my transmitter , this allows easier control of my sail .
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on December 04, 2010, 05:49:07 PM
Larry
 on my square riggers I like to power the capstans and use them to haul the yards around It's simple, inexpensive and "Almost" Bomb proof  It has the advantage of having all the sheets and braces on deck for easy repair ,maintenance, and or modifications.

 For diagrams and directions check Yachts & Sail R & D Thread "Brigantine Freebooter"
(http://s2.postimage.org/2gucszpno/Sail_control_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2gucszpno/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/2gutcd6lg/Sail_control_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2gutcd6lg/)
Freebooter
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on December 05, 2010, 07:19:36 PM
Larry
 So far I have had 5 request for the Black Rose Plans -- {:-{---Looks as if I might be getting some compertition in the Black Flag Trade . O0.. It could be great fun as most of them can hardly sail a Fore & After let alone a square rig  --- {-)---easy prey until they learn how to Tack ,Ware and Heave to --- :-)) ;)---then the skill and experance comes into play
DE Freebooter
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on December 05, 2010, 07:57:36 PM
ive tried sailing for the first time this year after i bought a seawind as a project , ive no interest in racing more the satisfaction of being able to be propelled around the lake by the elements , ive even managed to sail backwards ! as much as im enjoying seeing the build of the black rose , i dont think im ready yet to tackle a square rigger ?  keep up the good work . jon 
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 06, 2010, 10:00:27 AM
hi there jimmy beware of them there fire ships  ,or frustrated multi sailors,
  also thanks for info on crew members  :-))  LARRY..
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 07, 2010, 08:39:37 PM

(http://s4.postimage.org/356h63fvo/crew_mod_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/356h63fvo/)

(http://s4.postimage.org/357e8udr8/DSC8659.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/357e8udr8/)

(http://s4.postimage.org/357zqtw6c/DSC8662.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/357zqtw6c/)
hi  all ,got fed up with rigging , waiting for sail maker to stitch sails,,her in doors to busy ,a ..Christmas thing.. :kiss:.
 so went and got anew crew together . and starting knock  them  into shape. <*<
 knife and hot solder iron, coming on soon ready for paint job... O0 LARRY
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on December 07, 2010, 08:55:16 PM
No Worries
 I'm a master gunner (Ex G.I. in Navel terms) As well as being a Master Mariner . I shot across the bow ... The next is a rolling broad side
Jimmy
De Freebooter
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Popeye on December 07, 2010, 11:13:05 PM
For Larry

From where did you get your crew  and what's approximate scale (height of figure will be fine)?

Jimmy James (Freebooter) kindly got me a set of pre-painted pirates for my soon to be completed 1:32 scale square rigger, HMS Thames, though  a Press Gang would welcome an alternative source of manpower to plunder should a  relief crew be required.

Regards,

Popeye
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on December 08, 2010, 01:10:59 AM
Ah !!! Popeye
  That pretty little Brig of yours ready to take to the Briny is she :-)) ...Make a smashing Prize for old Freebooter she will  ... %)... mind you...I'll have to chop a few holes in the bulwarks and chuck those pitifully 4 pounders over the wall and mount some some nice l12 pounder carronaids and a long 9 before shes fit for my trade  {-)(sorry getting a bit ahead of my self ) But I do like's a good Prize taking ...It do warm the cockles of Me old heart... Ah!!! the smell of burnt powder ... and the screams and splashies of the... Oops!!! Crew of ..course the crew having    a  ... Wash... of course having a wash under the wash deck hose  :embarrassed: after a hard days work
Oh!!! Aye !!! I'll be a looking out for ye Master Popeye ...indeed I will ...Just to wish you well of course... Mmmmm!!!  {:-{ Must check with the bos'n to see if he got those new  powder barrels
De Freebooter
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 08, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
hi popeye .crew are a bag plastic soldiers from pound shop apros , 2in ....50mm   cut and shut and mould with solder iron ,see pi-cs,........LARRY.
(http://s3.postimage.org/1hqaorn5w/DSC8665.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1hqaorn5w/)
,,
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 08, 2010, 09:58:03 AM

(http://s3.postimage.org/1hz5vhmh0/crew_mod_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1hz5vhmh0/)
hi not the best picture ,but give you some idea . :-))LARRY..
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Popeye on December 08, 2010, 10:04:53 AM
For Larry.. thanks for info, will have to look in Santa's Grotto.

For Freebooter I'm surprised you'd waste powder 'n shot on a virtually defenceless former Deptford yard transport. Mind you, you'd have to be quick off the mark Cox under my previous name , HMS Supply, I was so fast that I was appointed Flagship to the first convict fleet to sail to Australia and furthermore, my crew were amongst the first Poms to settle in Australia - which is more than can be said for your bunch of bilge rats. So there Sailor, stick that in your pork barrel and chew on it!!!!

Seriously, HMS Thames is only waiting sails and attendant running rigging to be hung after which will come the real challenge - learning from you how to sail  the brig correctly. Not too early in the New Year though ,as I'm not as hardy as an old Salt like you!!!
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: kiwi on December 08, 2010, 10:08:40 AM
Larry,
Those crew are fantastic, well done
kiwi
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 08, 2010, 10:13:36 AM
THATS, OK POPEYE, bye the nice build of brig , whats its, history ?, i only started to build this type of model being a biginner at 75 love to get your standard  :-))LARRY,
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on December 08, 2010, 09:09:13 PM
Roger
Typical Brass Bounder ---AA- Hoy there sailor :embarrassed: if you teach me how to sail   {-) I'll let you chase me  %)  ( Hello--- wheres me Tigers Head ----Bout 4 foot from Is tail)   
 Ahhh! well ...De tings I dose to earn an honest crust  Still I suppose it's only sporting ...See you in the new year... Mm-mm!!!  {:-{  I'm sure he said that last year???
 Have a Happy Yule Tide
 De Freebooter
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on December 20, 2010, 08:02:58 PM
hi kiwi ,thank you for help and comments on black rose ,and ,...may i wish you and your family a "HAPPY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR" from my wife and i ..cheers LARRY W .. :-).
(http://s1.postimage.org/1g0qkib44/cruise_grand_princessdinner_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1g0qkib44/)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on January 07, 2011, 04:17:39 PM

(http://s3.postimage.org/x9qyd7lw/BLACK_ROSE_SAILS_004_EDIT.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x9qyd7lw/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/xa7hqojo/BLACK_ROSE_SAILS_005_EDIT.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xa7hqojo/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/xakq1ghw/BLACK_ROSE_SAILS_007_EDIT.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xakq1ghw/)
 HI ALL , fitted sails to black rose today , after struggle with sewing machine {:-{ now lacking one black shirt  old MS 6 years old ,
 all got to now make them work {-).... and hide the the off cuts  from her in doors, and service the singer  ;)....  LARRY W ....
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on January 08, 2011, 06:13:07 PM
Looking good Larry
 You'll have to post pix of her sailling
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on January 08, 2011, 06:30:25 PM
so when are you going to launch her ? do we need to warn all in the bristol chanel of imminent pirates ! !
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on January 08, 2011, 06:38:28 PM
thanks for comments,  launch will be soon as i sort out rigging bits ,  :(( i have main mast on a pivot bush like rudder control ,
 so all yard arms will be linked to this ,so trails will be on going  :-)) Larry .
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on January 09, 2011, 10:58:15 AM

(http://s3.postimage.org/1eexzku6c/Scan_8.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1eexzku6c/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/1ef2y6vno/Scan_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1ef2y6vno/)
  good morning all , put a rough sketch of sail movement rig a bit confused , but i will give it a try , comments please/........  {:-{..LARRY
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: tigertiger on January 09, 2011, 12:35:55 PM
Hi Larry.

Main and mizzen masts can turn together, but fore mast should turn independently. This will allow you to tack.

I cannot remember the sequence as I am not a square rig sailor, but someone will pipe up.

Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: tigertiger on January 09, 2011, 01:05:16 PM
Hi Larry

I think it goes like this for a 3 master

Swinging the yards on the foremast last will help the wind to bring her head around.
Then set

Mark
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on January 09, 2011, 01:28:54 PM
             
                 THANKS TIGER ,you can see what i am up gen-st, its all a black art to me idont under stand sail bits , but i am geting there ; the past year as seen 4 no footys  hit the scrap box. :((
(http://s4.postimage.org/1ahqdy7s4/P1020247.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1ahqdy7s4/)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: tigertiger on January 09, 2011, 01:35:18 PM
I can recommended a good book

An Introduction to Radio Controlled Scale Sailing Models by Phillip Vaughan Williams.

Price is 12.95 from Traplet.com

It does square riggers and fore-aft rigged boats as well. The stuff for the fore-aft rigged boats is applicable to modern rigged sail boats like the footys.
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on January 09, 2011, 01:45:20 PM
THANK YOU, i will  have a look at that when i get my next pension, i am only allowed to have a 20m a month modeling fund ,says her in doors >>:-( lLARRY.. ;)
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on January 09, 2011, 08:17:34 PM
I have never tried sailing with the the mast on a pivot and doing the work of a winch but I understand that a lot of Americans use that method. I will be really  interested to find out how it works --- How do you get on with stays and shrouds???
Watching with intrest
Jimmy
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: meatbomber on January 10, 2011, 09:11:16 AM
Tigertiger, You want to keep main and mizzen mast braced on the original tack as long as possible, avoiding to getting the sails aback! If you do it as shown in your drawing she will stop and start sailing backwards with a will in no time short ;)

Tacking my square riggers i found this to be the proper sequence:
note: tacking works best in steady wind conditions, gusty and flukey winds or chancging directions can make tacking a very frustrating exercise ;).. leave yourself searoom to wear instead if you miss stays which is very important approaching an inaccessible part of the pond / lake

1) from close hauled fall off a point or so to gain speed
2) If you have, haul the spanker (F&A sail on the mizzen) sheet tight
3) smoothly apply rudder to head up into the wind
heading up will be aided by slightly squareing the foremast brace,  just enough to spill the wind without getting the sail aback, you then keep the angle of the fore brace relative to the wind untill it`s braced up fully again
4)With the ship heading into the eye of the wind, change the main and mizzen braces to the other tack (here timing is everything too early will kill your speed, too late too :))
5) ease the spanker sheet (to  allow the head to fall off)
6)if you have had enough speed and momentum the ship will keep a bit of forward speed and the head should start to pay off on the new tack, just before reaching the desired angle swing the foremast brace to the new tack and tad of counter rudder to prevent her falling off too far.
If you were slow to start with or the winds are too strong you might start to develop sternway with the head of the ship pointing into the wind and most of her sails aback (square riggers can sail shockingly fast backwards) If you start going backwards you need to reverse rudder to get your head to fall off on the correct side!

Tacking a square rigger is a bit of an art, definitely nothing like tacking a modern sloop. However once you got a hang of the technique you will be able to tack nearly all the time, i say nearly because even with the best technique you will miss stays 1 out of 10 times. If the wind is too strong for the given sail area, tacking might get near on impossible, so start to reef down or reduce sail early. With the right amount of sail a square rigger will be still sailing on the pond when most other folks are packing up their gear already :) and it will be fun too

There is a Video of Brooks Martins Brigantine tacking in relatively strong winds:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=2805135&d=1255023735

One in low winds:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=2737651&d=1252162641

My Brig Somers tacking in relatively high winds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSR8k_XcnA4

and one in low winds too..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-pzQ2UGQg
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: tigertiger on January 10, 2011, 09:27:02 AM
Thx Meatbomber  :-))
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: LarryW on May 03, 2011, 09:02:53 PM

(http://s3.postimage.org/js83awg4/2011_04_30_weding_day_park_036.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/js83awg4/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/jta4nvt0/2011_04_30_weding_day_park_031.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jta4nvt0/)
 hi better now after more lead on keel    larry w .
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: triumphjon on May 03, 2011, 09:44:03 PM
have the pirates gone to vicky park or st georges  ?water  looks a little green ! nice to see your sailing her
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Jimmy James on May 08, 2011, 02:38:39 PM
Just tell the bos'n to start those idlers in the wast The touch of a starter keeps them keen
Freebooter
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: JosephHuntley on January 07, 2017, 07:44:26 PM
I know this is an old thread but thanks for the info I just got these plans and want to enlarge them to a 72" overall length for R/C and this will be most helpful
Title: Re: the black rose
Post by: Tug-Kenny on January 08, 2017, 10:25:47 AM

As this thread is now over 6 years old, it might be a good idea to start a new thread for your build .

We would all like to see some updates as it's an interesting ship.

ken