Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Nordsee on November 18, 2010, 02:58:08 pm

Title: Getting People interested
Post by: Nordsee on November 18, 2010, 02:58:08 pm
Do any of you think the same as I ? That these wonderful models, built by experts over years of dedicated work with sophisticated tools and masses of talent and skill, actually put off people who maybe interested in making a model? They see these masterpieces and think, " I could never do that" or" That is far too expensive for me to attempt" and don't bother. When I used to go to Shows and I took my Dulcibelle along,or even now when I am sailing on our lake, I got lots of queries about where I got it, and then about the plan and build etc. It only needs a basic 2 channel outfit, the wood will cost you a tenner and you can buy at a very good price, sails and keel bulb.(From the Designer) She sails well, looks pretty and fits fully rigged in nearly any car. Also it is not an overpriced Chinese look-a-like, but a boat that can be modified and altered to be "Your" boat.It is popular and can easily be enlarged to be a more weather proof vessel.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Lord Bungle on November 18, 2010, 03:11:52 pm
Yes :) I have only started in this hobby and rather than build from kits I am refinishing/rebuilding/restoring how ever you want to put it models I have just won my 2nd one on ebay a twin 540 motored 32inch long huntsman (so stand by for more stupid questions from me)
but I am looking and gaining skills I hope, so I can one day build my own model from scratch. In the mean time, the boats I do have are giving me experience in construction techniques and how a single motor handles and how a dual motor handles. (I someday wish to build a 1/12 scale RAF seaplane tender with twin engines (probably electric). but until then I am playing with the boats I have, and will be gaining experience building some of the boats from here http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/ (http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/) great site btw  :-))
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: nemesis on November 18, 2010, 03:29:45 pm
Guten tag Nordsee, Yes, I have to agree with you, this hypothesis was put to me many years ago by the late Mike Bond and the more you think about it he certainly had a point. Kits do encourage beginners to build or assemble and hopefully go on to scratchbuild models that they fancy, ones that are not kitted and you have to make the fittings etc.    Nemesis
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 18, 2010, 04:21:21 pm
I think that this is why you need kit manufacturers attending at shows. People can see the finished models on the club stands and then inspect the kit contents and talk it over with the manufacturers. That way the building process doesn't seem so challenging.


It is important that, as with any other hobby or sport etc., people find the level that they are comfortable with as not everyone aspires to the masterpieces you see on display. You can have a great deal of fun at 'club' level without feeling that you are a failure if you can't create a museum quality model.

Kits have always been the main way into the hobby and these days you are spoilt for choice.

Colin
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: gondolier88 on November 18, 2010, 04:30:15 pm
Only to those with no ambition in my point of view- we constantly see things that are out of our normal skills or knowlege, but if we had no ambition we would never attempt to design them, if we'd even thought about it, let alone make them.

Defeatists will always be defeated, the ambitious will only ever succeed- even if the project is never finished it will always have taught them something, and knowlege leads to future successes.

When I was 15 I went on the 45' Windermere steam launch Shamrock. When I got home I designed an 8' model from memory, all solid oak/mahogany/cedar construction, live steam plant with self designed loco' boiler and all the details I could remember. I started building, steaming .25" square oak for the frames, cutting planks, making a stem and apron, making a raked cabin and engine cover etc. I never finished it, I doubt I will, but the lessons I learnt have stood me in good stead for expanding my hobby, and even leading to employment.

As a 15 year old if I'd said 'wow, I could never build something like that' where would I be? And no I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I was using a paper-round to pay for the wood and a bandsaw- of which still has regular use in my workshop.

As a result I feel very strongly that we should always build the best we can and be rightly proud of such- not to put off would-be modellers, but to inspire them.

Greg
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Bryan Young on November 18, 2010, 06:03:52 pm
Do any of you think the same as I ? That these wonderful models, built by experts over years of dedicated work with sophisticated tools and masses of talent and skill, actually put off people who maybe interested in making a model? They see these masterpieces and think, " I could never do that" or" That is far too expensive for me to attempt" and don't bother. When I used to go to Shows and I took my Dulcibelle along,or even now when I am sailing on our lake, I got lots of queries about where I got it, and then about the plan and build etc. It only needs a basic 2 channel outfit, the wood will cost you a tenner and you can buy at a very good price, sails and keel bulb.(From the Designer) She sails well, looks pretty and fits fully rigged in nearly any car. Also it is not an overpriced Chinese look-a-like, but a boat that can be modified and altered to be "Your" boat.It is popular and can easily be enlarged to be a more weather proof vessel.

It's this very point that I was (and am) trying to make in the writing about "Norseman"! I began by having no model making skills whatsoever and made more mistakes than you could shake the proverbial stick at.
Knowing that many people like yourself are "keen" but put off by seeing some models that look to be out of your reach is no reason at all for you to lose heart. I've progressed from being a total ignoramus as far as modelling is concerned to be able now to think I can offer advice to beginners like yourself....and hopefully steering you away from the minefields and pitfalls that cost me so much in terms of both cash and time.
This "learning process" has gone on now for over 30 years. And I'm still learning. I suppose it all boils down to how keen you are. BY.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 18, 2010, 06:32:25 pm
Quote
I suppose it all boils down to how keen you are.

Very true. And it is also true that some people will create a masterpiece with their first effort - it does happen, but not often. But I see no objection to taking a more progressive route into the hobby, cutting your teeth on something relatively simple initially and using this to improve your skill levels so that you progress to more complex work at your own pace - and I'll bet that is how most modellers learn the ropes.

As for continuing towards 'museum standard' I think that depends on the individual. Some people progress to a certain level and no further as they are happy with what they do. It's not necessarily about ambition but balance. I enjoy modelling but I'm not obsessed with it and like to spend my time on other things as well. Spending all your hours in the workshop is not a good recipe for domestic harmony.

It's whatever floats your boat really.

Colin
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Bryan Young on November 18, 2010, 07:21:26 pm
Colin, getting to "museum standard" with a working boat is an aspiration. Like training for the Olympics or something. Very few attain it, but that doesn't stop others trying. And it's the "trying" bit that makes the difference. I've scrapped a model that I just knew wasn't going to be up to my expectations, even though I'd spent over a year working on it.
It's all very well just saying "Well, it's good enough for me" just isn't the reaction I'd expect to hear from someone who wishes to knuckle down and learn.
I half agree with "Nemesis" that building from a kit is a good introduction, and that it my (in time) lead on to another level. But even at the "top end" of kit building, at the end of the day you are building someone elses model and not one of your own creation.
And I'm not trying to open old wounds here between kits and scratch. Each has its place.
But....seriously....building from scratch does indicate more of a desire to learn about what you are actually doing than just following instructions.
I give an example. A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about what sort of boat davit would be fitted to a TID tug. No research or questioning whatsoever. Straight on to this site and expect answers so he (or she) could blithely carry on without really thinking about it.
      The bottom line really is that no-one including kit builders will ever, ever get a "good" model off their workbench if they don't make the effort to learn what all the "bits" do, and how they relate to each other.
Otherwise the "builder" just ends up with a basically unsatisfactory toy. BY.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Lord Bungle on November 18, 2010, 07:26:07 pm
As someone new to rc boats I do think that some of the answers to questions could be made a lot easier to understand, especially in the beginners start here area. I know that there are questions I would like answered but feel unsure of asking as people with more experience will think them stupid, and to someone with experience they probably are stupid.
 People must try to remember that not everyone knows how to use google to its full use, and if trying to look something up and getting loads of answers might not get the time to read every one of them, so will think, ok I will ask on the forum. although this may be considered a pain, it should also be thought of people wanting to learn from the expertise on here. So an answer of do a search for it isn't really of any use, its like giving an answer of "Because it is" when a child asks why the sky is blue, I am sure the experts on here learnt by asking questions, or from many years of experience, and it would be nice if they passed some of that knowledge on without sarcastic comments.  :-)

Having said that I have had some very usefull information and help given to me by a small group of people, and thanks to them I know have/had (the esc blew up thanks to what looks like a manufacturing fault) a working boat, its far from a good looking, highly detailed craft, but it floats, doesn't leak, goes forwards, backward, and turns left and right and helps me relax when playing with it on a local lake.  

Just be gentle when I ask my next stupid question, for 1 day I might shock you all and produce a wonderfull boat to the high standards of some on here.
LB
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 18, 2010, 08:49:09 pm
... until then I am playing with the boats I have, and will be gaining experience building some of the boats from here http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/ (http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/) ..

You will find these plans are a bit limiting for an adult builder after a while - they were Ernie Webster's introduction to marine modelling, intended for 10-15 year olds.

They are intended to fill a huge gap in the model boat market that the original poster seems to have noticed - you can see wonderful works of engineering art on boating ponds, and any amount of plastic Chinese powerboats, but where are the planks of wood with twig masts being pulled around by an 8-year old? The shops haven't got a lot of kits you can give a 10 year old for Christmas - I think we need to encourage young entrants to the hobby by providing something simple they can succeed at by themselves...   

I know I've been neglecting the site - pressure of looking for work! But I have plans for a number of new ships - in the new year....
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Shipmate60 on November 18, 2010, 09:10:30 pm
Lord Bungle,
We have all had to start somewhere, some as a child and some as a pensioner.
As has been said on here many times "there is no such thing as a stupid question, only the one I didn't ask"
If you don't know something ASK.
If it is due to inexperience we have ALL been there at sometime.

Bob
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: triumphjon on November 18, 2010, 09:11:50 pm
for many years while sailing at the various lakes around the country ive been asked the same questions , i like your boat , then its is it hard to use ? often followed by how much does it cost ?and sometimes by can i have a go mate !  i try being logical in not trying to put potential newbies off , as with most new hobbies or past times that we may take up the cost has a limiting factor ! im sure im not the only modeller who has built up a collection of tools & equipment over many years ? in all honesty a simple model can be made without expensive power tools but just the basic tools that can be found in most homes ! while there are many kits on the market today there cost is often off putting to a newbie , whereas a sensibly priced second hand model that is capable of being sailed straight away is maybe a better starting point ?
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin H on November 18, 2010, 11:02:36 pm

I think one of the problems is the human, no one person is like another. We all have different levels of skill, different aspirations, different likes and dislikes.

I personally prefer more to be in the work shop than down the pond but I would not denigrate the man/woman who bought a ready to sail boat because they prefer the pond to the workshop.

I started with model boats six years ago skill level zero (not much higher now). I bought a simple Billings kit of a french trawler, eventually got it on to the pond to prove it worked. Took it home removed anything salvageable and binned it.

After several kits all binned bar one I tried a Springer and then another (first springer) stripped and binned yesterday after three times down the pond.

That boat will provide most of my needs for the Swordsman I am now trying to build.

Old but true saying "What ever floats your boat."

Colin H.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Lord Bungle on November 18, 2010, 11:20:33 pm
have you never thought about selling the boats on?
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: soldier151 on November 19, 2010, 12:47:50 am
Hi Guys
Couldn't agree more - At Killingworth Lake we encourage members of the public to have a go! and are always happy to answer questions.  What better was to get new members.  A good intro is the Glyn Guest/Hal Harrison models, generally made out of Balsa and fairly cheap.  When we have display days there is always one or two of these models on display, not yet completed as this shows people HOW TO DO IT.
Kits are great but can be outside the budget of many, a lifeboat says costs £300 for the kit, motors and radio gear etc another £100, three or four figures at £12 each, paints and adhesives £50, we are now looking at £500 +.  Compare this to a few quid on balsa and a basic 2 channel radio, less than a £100.
Basic tools, a metal rule, stanley knife, PVA glue, tissue paper and cellulose dope, some odd paints and sandpaper and a lot of love, hey presto YOUR OWN BOAT.  You built it, you sail it, thats the motto at Killy Lake,
Soldier151
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: woodbutcher on November 19, 2010, 02:24:29 am
it takes makers of all levels,and they all generate interest at the pond. I started with plastic kits when I was 9 or 10 years old and only started to scratch build boats because I couldn't afford the kits, as it was it took a lot of sacrifice to purchase my first two channel radio. Scratch building isn't necessarily cheaper but it lets you build the boat you want in a scale you want with as much detail and as many functions as you want. Sometimes it leads to some dissapointments but thats part of the learning. The thing is to do the best tou can and make each build better than the last, good rule for life. Al
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: RODDERS on November 19, 2010, 09:00:27 am
My 2p.........................
 I build all sorts of stuff ,from road going vehicles down to my tug model.I  have been offered stupidly low money for various stuff Ive done . Most go off in a huff,some actually laugh at me when I refuse the offers because they  just dont seem to realise what it takes to get stuff finished,both financially and time wise.
 The way I see it ,is that once the basics are done ,you have got to throw money at whatever size build to get it finished.I tend to have a flurry of activity .then leave the project for a while. In the case of the tug,I 've only just re started on it after leaving it for a bout 3 years.
 I ind lots of folks interested,but none have any knowledge of how to use tools etc! Sorry to ramble.
        Rod
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin H on November 19, 2010, 05:19:06 pm

Has anyone given thought to todays education system.

Judging by the average age of our members I would think that when most of us were at school we had the use of both a metal and a wood work shop. We were taught basic skills in both disciplines and by the time we left most of us could use the hand tools available.

During my last two years I chose metal work and by the time I left at fifteen I had basic skills on lathes, grinding and buffing wheels, brazing and soldering plus forge work.

From what I saw of my sons school (he is now 35) he had none of those advantages.

Colin H.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: 50mm on November 19, 2010, 07:30:32 pm
Those educational values are present here in the US, dread to think what the Uk is like for its Education nowadays, not to boast but you find that 'most' inventions of modern time are created this side of the world or in Japan, doubt its a matter of intelligence but the educational values taught. (sort your government out, here its 4 year terms to a max of 8 so its not so hard to change all the mistakes of other parties)

Go back to basics? my son is doing shop class (he's 15) no doubt if you asked a 15 year old from the uk how a lathe works or how do you use a hand saw or how do you use a mig/spot welder he will shrug.

Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: triumphjon on November 19, 2010, 07:55:07 pm
having spoken to somebody with seniour school age children they dont allow them into the school workshops any more due to the health and safety issues of the workshop enviroment ! thus how do we expect to get school children into our hobby through the education system ?
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Number 6 on November 19, 2010, 08:13:40 pm
With our club (Potteries MBC) sailing at public park and nature reserve we often get approached by members of the public of all ages that express an interest in the hobby. We always try to encourage them to have a look what's available both in kit form and ready to run. Most of us are keen to show them how they work. We advise them that you can spend a small fortune on the hobby if you wish but can also perhaps get a great amount of fun and pleasure from the ready to run boats. We say you can always go to bigger and more complex projects, just don't overface yourself with a build or you'll lose interest and heart in the hobby. We have a couple of younger enthusiasts that come down with their own RTR boats and we help them get them running properly etc. The future of the hobby lies with us encouraging the youngsters to switch off their xbox's and ipods and actually making something with their own hands, something they can be proud of, and can say "I built that". Have a look at the photos from the shows of this year, how many people in the pics are under 25? Not many. The manufacturing industry in the UK is a shambles, it's very disheartening to see the demise of so much of our once great nation. We import so much it's getting a joke, we're losing the ability to create anything at all except national debt...Dave.  {:-{
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: triumphjon on November 19, 2010, 08:23:17 pm
we dont make very much here any longer , we once had a thriving motor industry , what is left as wholly british ? i think its just the morgan and marcos ! it would be great to see younger blood in the hobby as has been said before but its hard to get them into actually making very much . ive tried as my girlfreind has an 14 year old grandson , yes hed love a model boat , but only if i build it for him then supply everything to make it work ! ive tried several times to get him to come and have an assisted build , the xbox or ps ? wins every time .
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin H on November 19, 2010, 11:10:23 pm


Jon,

I wasn't suggesting we get people interested through the education system just that the system I went through taught me how to make things and how to use tools etc.

This maybe what sparked my love of working with my hands (never was much of an academic).

Maybe another thing was that back in the 1950s if you didn't make your trolley in a summer or your sled in a winter you didn't have one to play with.

As you point out the Health & Safety idiots stopped this approach in schools and other organisations. After all it would not do for little Johnnie to cut is finger or little Susie to damage her finger nail would it.

Colin H.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: triumphjon on November 19, 2010, 11:32:36 pm
very true . i even looked at a job advert for a garage mechanic this week , read ;- must be able to use an ossiliscope , and computer readers ? gone are the days of fuel , sparks , compression ! kids today dont know what hand tools are or how to use them ! i was in a shop recently when a younger member of the comunity visited complaining he couldnt cut his 1/8th ply to make his model , when i looked at his chosen j hacksaw there werent any teeth on the blade  ,
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Lord Bungle on November 19, 2010, 11:36:31 pm
you will find that job was for a technician they don't have mechanics these days, I am worried that soon the same ideas will end up in hospital, a confused nursing technician trying to work out where to stick the probe to diagnose a broken leg  {-)
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: derekwarner on November 19, 2010, 11:56:24 pm
It is the same in OZ.........we now have "Mechatronics" university degree cadetships working in our steel industry...1/2 mechanical....& the other 1/2 electronic....... %%

The system that introduced this suggests that these people will be multi skilled in both electronic & mechanical fields.......a more sinister view is that they will only be 1/2 skilled in any respective field >:-o :(( O0

Please don't read me the wrong way  >>:-( these 18 year olds are technically & mathematically smart.....but are they the same one's that just missed out on medicine or a jet fighter vocation @ university?

Who will chisel...then draw file the cast iron block & then use Prussian blue  to check it for flatness?????????????????????? ...Derek
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: malcolmfrary on November 20, 2010, 11:19:14 am
Quote
i was in a shop recently when a younger member of the comunity visited complaining he couldnt cut his 1/8th ply to make his model , when i looked at his chosen j hacksaw there werent any teeth on the blade
Safety.  :-))
Quote
It is the same in OZ.........we now have "Mechatronics" university degree cadetships working in our steel industry...1/2 mechanical....& the other 1/2 electronic.......

The system that introduced this suggests that these people will be multi skilled in both electronic & mechanical fields.......a more sinister view is that they will only be 1/2 skilled in any respective field
are they the same one's that just missed out on medicine or a jet fighter vocation @ university?
Nothing sinister there, it will produce a combination that will give huge advantages to whoever has the sense to employ them.  Having a range of skills at a useful and usable level is better than being a one trick pony.  I know a couple of well qualified medical people who I wouldn't fully trust to change a light bulb, or at least, not the right one.  A screwdriver should not be an arcane mystery, apart from the Yankee, but the HSE people, in trying to place a thick layer of padding around everybody, regardless of their abilities, potential and otherwise, are doing nobody any favours.
At shows (wandering back to the original topic) I feel that there should be room for boats that just give their owners pleasure - yes there is an important place for displaying skill and excellence, but newcomers should also be shown that there is no need to start with the ultimate, and that models that are quite basic can give a great deal of pleasure to the owner, and, hopefully, builder.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on November 20, 2010, 11:49:14 am
[quote author=malcolmfrary link
At shows (wandering back to the original topic) I feel that there should be room for boats that just give their owners pleasure - yes there is an important place for displaying skill and excellence, but newcomers should also be shown that there is no need to start with the ultimate, and that models that are quite basic can give a great deal of pleasure to the owner, and, hopefully, builder.
[/quote]

And that's it in a nutshell,  O0 O0 O0 :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: BrianCartwright on November 20, 2010, 03:34:24 pm
I went to Warwick model boat show last Saturday.
When I looked over the balcony whilst having a cup of tea there was a sea of grey and varying shades of pink.confirming the fact that most boaters are are twirlis (Too earley to use the bus pass for you youngsters under 60)
The quality and variation of the models is awe inspiring.If Brittain wants an export this surely would fit that criteria.
I would like to be a fly on the wall in50 years time and see what has been happening to the hobby.
It seems to me that with very few youngsters coming along we might see the demise of the hobby along withe many other pastimes.

regards Brian
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Nordsee on November 20, 2010, 04:32:01 pm
Those educational values are present here in the US, dread to think what the Uk is like for its Education nowadays, not to boast but you find that 'most' inventions of modern time are created this side of the world or in Japan, doubt its a matter of intelligence but the educational values taught. (sort your government out, here its 4 year terms to a max of 8 so its not so hard to change all the mistakes of other parties)

Go back to basics? my son is doing shop class (he's 15) no doubt if you asked a 15 year old from the uk how a lathe works or how do you use a hand saw or how do you use a mig/spot welder he will shrug.


Then he would say" Whatever!" and go back to Texting his friend who he left 2 minutes before...
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: malcolmfrary on November 20, 2010, 05:24:15 pm
Quote
sort your government out, here its 4 year terms to a max of 8 so its not so hard to change all the mistakes of other parties
Its not a function of government - one lot doesn't want to pay for it and does its utmost to alienate the teaching profession, the other lot are stuck with ideology that hates improvement, thus does its best to stop anybody learning anything useful.  This has been the case for the last couple of generations, so both sides have had a chance to get it right, but both would rather pay some well spoken BS merchant to SAY that everything is working properly than actually do the job.
Short term plans are by their nature unable to give long term benefits, since if they mean a bit of short term pain, the other lot get in to "fix" it, leave the pain and avoid the benefit, on the principal that he who makes the most noise and has the best parade, wins.  Thinking about it, the same applies in a non-fixed term system, the main difference is that the politicians involved don't know exactly how long they have to cover their misdeeds.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 20, 2010, 11:43:32 pm

It seems to me that with very few youngsters coming along we might see the demise of the hobby along withe many other pastimes.


Advert alert!

Now is the time to think about downloading some of those EeZeBilt plans, cut the shapes out from a balsa sheet, make up a tin prop and give them to the kids in your family with a 30p motor as a Christmas present. Must be cheaper than buying one from Ebay at £50....

.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Perkasaman2 on November 21, 2010, 12:36:08 am
The basic hand tools have changed remarkably little for many centuries and widespread skill in their use produced much craftsmanship but very little technical advance or invention until the beginning of what we now call the Industrial Revolution which started only two hundred odd years ago. Compulsory woodwork/metalwork school classes might double club membership in ten years time but I'm not convinced when I look at all the other leisure choices available.
The majority of youngsters today probably have far greater manual and mental dexterity than their parents, thanks to the puter and spend considerable amounts of time etc. acquiring it. The real startup cost for a beginner to put a reasonable sized electric model boat kit finished and sailing  on the pond is  likely to be £300 - £600+.............. and supposes Mayhem type support?  
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: kiwi on November 21, 2010, 01:32:25 am
The responsibility of bringing up kids sits squarely on the parents, and to a certain extent on the grandparents. Introduce kids (with hands on, not just stand and watch) should start at an early age. Most I know in the hobby started their first build around 7 or 8 years of age. but had toys/models built for them before that, by parent or grand parent.
How many of you out there take their grand kids of that age (or their own kids) to shows or the local club. Dodgy Geezer has it right, do what he says and download, print off, grab some balsa, tin of paint, a brush, some glue and a craft knife, parcel them up and give them to your kids and/or grand kids. (All for a few dollars/pounds). Its up to you to see the hobby continue, your responsibility to pass on the interest. A seven year old doesn't need r/c and all the gubbins, save that for their 2nd or 3rd boat, even donate your old 27 or whatever crystal r/s gear as you mostly now use 2.4Mhz sets. That's why with my footy-scow drawings (vailable free from DG's web-site as 50+ wee boats) I list all the various fittings which can be bought from the local craft shop (or pound/dollar shop) for very little and still they look the part. No need for expensive purpose made fittings until later builds. Encourage them to think laterally, and be creative. You maybe surprised just how creative some kids can be today.
Start them off small, and see the look of pleasure and achievement on their faces when THEIR boat actually navigates the local pond. They will always want something better, so let them progress to bigger and better things slowly with each build. Some will drop out, maybe to return later in life, others will move sideways into RTR boats and enjoy them. They will all go their different paths , some within, some without the hobby, BUT its upto you to take the first steps.
Or is my faith in fellow modellers misplaced and they really don't want to take on the responsibility as is so common with humanity today. All for self, and no responsibility for anything, then moan like hell because the govt isn't doing anything.
Everyone gets the govt they deserve, your choice.
The hobby lives or dies due to the attitudes and actions of its members.
Ok, rant over, just my two bob's worth, and no correspondence will be entered into, as they say.
Here's to the future of our hobby
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: kiwi on November 21, 2010, 10:00:01 am
Hi All,
Check this out. seems someone has the right idea, and it worked for them.
How many other clubs around the world could do something similar, give it a go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKcvWn8FjsQ

cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: knoby on November 21, 2010, 10:13:45 am
How to get people interested was the original question. Reading this thread it kind of answerers itself, a few suggested possible routes to take, but the majority just blamed the government. i do wonder how many reading this thread have actually done anything in the last 3 months to encourage anyone under the age of 16 to try the hobby? who can honestly say they they couldn't have tried harder ?
Whenever i am at the lake i always offer any kids a go of my boat, yes sometimes I'm scared, but most of the kids are amazing at sailing them, they spend half their life gaming & have far greater control skills than most of us who have been sailing all our lives. I got started because some brave soul offered me a go of his 10cc powered Huntsman, he didn't have to do that, but he did. result was a lifelong love of model boats. despite what we like to say, most kids will respect you if you give them a chance & its up to us to give them that chance.
modeling is never going to compete with the x box, but if we plant the seeds maybe some will try the hobby at sometime in their life.
Next time your at an exhibition or regatta, just take a moment to walk away from the crowd & look back at the whole scene. imagine you were 10 again ( we all were once) what do you honestly see? Would you want to get involved at that age?
Some members make a real effort to incourage new blood, but, as with most clubs, most put their efforts into whining.
Rant over, I would like to thank everyone who put them selves out when I was young to encourage me.
cheers Glenn
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: 50mm on November 21, 2010, 03:43:20 pm
Knoby well put finally someone who speak sense!

its up to us as elders to encourage the young ones to get off there chubby butts away from the xbox or ps3 and get outside and be creative!

My son who's 15 has an xbox but we limit his time spent on it as good family values, hes subject to schedules to exercise his mind in all aspects of life, not sat in front of a tv or at the end of the block with a can of spray paint.

As an example of his interests we encourage him to do, its school work, after he's home he get an hour or so in front of the tv, or computer until food is ready, he takes part in extra school activity's like football and gym class, i take him regularly to my club meets and he involved in learning to model things with me as a father and son activity, although i do not ask for his help i do open the door for him to try and take part but will never force it upon him to take it up as a hobby, thats his decision to make as an adult, although im pleased to say he he loves helping me at the moment and that im glad of!

Other activity's are Camping in the RV once a month taking his scout group during the summer, going fishing and learning basic survival skills the same as my father taught me.

how many of you other do this with your children?

I personally believe it comes down to family values and we as adults should take responsibly to teach the young one's rather then blame the education systems or government's of there short comings. maybe if those who moan so much spent more time taking part in aiding younger people maybe you might see a difference
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 21, 2010, 05:44:27 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAHJbJieV0o

That is all....
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: 50mm on November 21, 2010, 06:06:37 pm
doubt 'one off's' really count somehow do you?
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: kiwi on November 21, 2010, 06:14:50 pm
Every new one counts as a start. And the little cresta boy, he's since gone on to build more models.
Knoby, 50mm and DG you guys are doing the right thing with your families, how many more have the right 'family values' and give back to kids the encouragement they received when young. All part of the process and cycle of life
Well done guys
cheers
kiwi
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: 50mm on November 21, 2010, 07:05:06 pm
i've no clue why this is not being continued with family's, i understand as much as the next that single parents struggle to do these things and that some parents still together have to work constantly to meet ends meet, that's life.
But for many i fail to see the effort when family's are home, it becomes a once a year holiday for a week or 2 but the rest of the time the tv seams to be the baby sitter or an easy parenting solutions but then you ask yourself why there are kids on the street at night with knifes and guns, look at the video games they play ( GTA 3 and so on, which i banned my son from playing needless acts of violence) then you have teenage pregnancy's as its hip to have kids or worse they don't get the love and attention at home so they create a little life that they believe will give them the love and attention they should have got from there parents.

bad parenting = bad kids  if this is the case the only people to blame are yourself's  heaven forbid my kids turn out that way but at least i can say i did my best and gave every opportunity to grow to be a better person.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 21, 2010, 07:41:02 pm
Every generation has its own special interests and these days it is computer games. Back in the late 1960s I got heavily involved with Naval Wargaming which was intellectually very satisfying and I learned a lot of naval history along the way. But these pursuits are ephemeral and don't offer anything long lasting. Computer games are a bit like building a kit in some ways as whatever you achieve is basically determined by the manufacturer or writer and is therefore not something you can really take ownership of.

Building a model from scratch, using research to recreate the original, is something else again and, if done well, may recreate something from history in model form which is unique and will outlast you. Something like this will ultimately give you far greater satisfaction than attaining the highest level in some computer game which will rapidly be replaced by an updated version. You can put a scratch built model on display and say 'I built that'.  A bit different to saying that 'I got a score of 20,000 points in xyz computer game'.

But you do need to be a bit older to appreciate the truth of this which is why many modellers these days are of comparatively advanced years!

Colin
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 21, 2010, 07:44:21 pm
... going fishing and learning basic survival skills the same as my father taught me.

how many of you other do this with your children?


I taught my children advanced survival skills.

Sent 'em off to boarding school.....
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 21, 2010, 07:54:11 pm
Quote
I taught my children advanced survival skills.

Sent 'em off to boarding school.....

You cruel, cruel man!

I expect they will be emotionally crippled for life and  totally unable to  engage with extraterrestial civilisations....

Colin
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: The long Build on November 21, 2010, 07:58:07 pm
I taught my children advanced survival skills.

Sent 'em off to boarding school.....
{-) {-) {-)

Think in hindsight it would have been the best thing for me..
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Bryan Young on November 21, 2010, 08:16:10 pm
I think that going to sea at the age of 16/17 is just as traumatic as being sent to a boarding school! Lord knows, if I hadn't "sailed away" I may have developed into a rounder more acceptable member of society than I've finished up as. BY.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 21, 2010, 08:18:20 pm
Now, now Bryan - no excuses!

Colin
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: longshanks on November 21, 2010, 10:19:22 pm
A few thoughts
1.
My son whilst growing up joined me in all sorts of hobbies – Military modelling, R/C cars, R/C gliders even model boating! We even built two powerboats.

Free plan in Model Boats Nov ’92 by Glynn Guest – balsa hull catamaran with stock 540 motor 6 volt ni-cad. Oh boy did we have fun and yes most days we had to come home and repair them but we were still laughing about the days events.

Then came computers and girls!

Now nearly 30 he is now an outdoor pursuit instructor. Regularly goes climbing, abseiling, pot holing, kayaking and he has a kite buggy!

Guess what? He came round the other day and asked if I still had the plans and could we build another couple of cats, perhaps in fibreglass this time !!!!!!!!!!!!!

2.
Just perhaps model boating does not compare in excitement with the latest computer game to the youth of today! (Martin, please don’t cancel my membership)

But remember it now takes all night to do what you used to do all night.

What I’m trying to say is there is no instant gratification in model boating – whatever level you are at! You have to be in it for the long haul and just perhaps the patience comes with maturity.

I feel that perhaps more can be done at the pond side.  I’m sure we have all been there trying to get the latest creation in the water and along comes the middle aged smart a** with the stupid question!

He could well have been watching for a while and he is nervous of approaching these ‘tecky’ guys and his question comes out all wrong. We of course reply with a  sarcastic answer – game over! Remember there is no such thing as a stupid question, only a stupid answer. Better perhaps to say hang on while I fix this them we can chat, you might like to have a go yourself – stand back and wind in the hook.

Perhaps there could be a notice board on the club house / pond side with suggestions to where to go for further information, like Mayhem website, model mags, retailers etc.

Please forgive me for waffling on but I had to have my say
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: soldier151 on November 22, 2010, 12:26:11 am
Why not have an Open Gala Day once a month at your Club, advertise it in the local Council Newsletter/Library/Supermarket Notice Boards and have sone half built models on display.   The late Mick Bond of our Club used to demonstrate making boats at the major shows
Soldier151
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Dreadstar on November 22, 2010, 12:34:52 am
Ok,so I'm still a relative newbie to this modelmaking lark,but I was the same when I looked at all these display like models. I could never build something like that I thought,so instead I started buying some 2nd hand boats off ebay,and tried renovating them. Now my models will never be of showroom standard,but I think that I did not too bad on the ships that I renovated.

 However,I wasn't too happy with them because,I hadn't made them myself.Now my mum didn't raise a fool,as the saying goes,and I knew that buying a kit wasn't really the way to go for me,as I lacked ,as I thought,the skills to do it justice. That was the reason that I started searching about through various mags for free plans,that A piqued my interest,and B were something that I thought that I might be able to do a reasonable job with. Quite how I managed to make the Vosper Corvette look as good as she turned out,still confounds me. This acted as a sort of springboard you might say,and with the completion of almost three models now,I'm really beginning to get the bug. Now don't expect me to move up to the pro-kits,I'm having way too much fun building and modifying these easy-build plans.

 I may be a mechanical engineer (Fitter) to trade,but I'd never worked with wood of any type before,but with the build articles posted by many of you,I felt that just maybe I should give it a try.

 Thank you all very much for the support you've shown my builds,it really makes a big difference to ones confidence.

 David.
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: ZZ56 on November 22, 2010, 02:04:33 am
Couple of points:

1) having just shut off the Xbox a half hour or so ago I can attest that video games now are hardly instant-gratification.  Some of them are far more tedious than work!  What hooks people is a gradual progression from one thing to the next within an acceptable difficulty curve, not instantly winning.  Modeling CAN compete with this.

2) there will always be boat modelers as long as there are two kinds of people in the world:  people with an interest in boats, and people with an interest in building things.  These are the people you should be reaching out to.  Most passerbys will express an interest in models at shows but this will fade moments after they get in the car to go home.

3) how many kids now are growing up with parents working service industry jobs, who have no real knowledge of building things?  Occasionally installing something according to carefully vetted instructions doesn't count.  people grow up thinking that it takes a certain education to even begin to make these things, or that it takes extraordinary patience, when patience is really the enemy of modeling (how many people here have been 'working on' something for 4+ years?  Come on now, be honest.)

4)  this discussion is usually brought up by scale modelers but there are many more disciplines within RC boating.  Teens are impressed by speed and power:  try showing them to nitro and gas boats. 

 
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 22, 2010, 09:57:15 am


... I can attest that video games now are hardly instant-gratification.  Some of them are far more tedious than work!  What hooks people is a gradual progression from one thing to the next within an acceptable difficulty curve, not instantly winning.  Modeling CAN compete with this.

 


My take on this is that it is the act of creation that is critical.

It doesn't matter if it's a polished museum-grade model, or a plank of wood with a twig nailed onto it. You can see the pride in the kids eyes when they put something together themselves - they will be attached to that far more than any high-speed plastic bought boat...

That's why I'm trying to present a resource of simple plans for kids to really make for themselves, rather than for dad to make for them. Boats that are small enough to put on the shelf of a kids bedroom (which is where they will spend most of their life), but where the kid can look at them and think  "I made that!".


 
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Lord Bungle on November 22, 2010, 11:31:28 am

My take on this is that it is the act of creation that is critical.

It doesn't matter if it's a polished museum-grade model, or a plank of wood with a twig nailed onto it. You can see the pride in the kids eyes when they put something together themselves - they will be attached to that far more than any high-speed plastic bought boat...

That's why I'm trying to present a resource of simple plans for kids to really make for themselves, rather than for dad to make for them. Boats that are small enough to put on the shelf of a kids bedroom (which is where they will spend most of their life), but where the kid can look at them and think  "I made that!".

or Uncles to have a quick practice with so they don't look a total idiot when trying to put them to gether with nephews  {-)
 

Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 22, 2010, 11:35:28 am

or Uncles to have a quick practice with so they don't look a total idiot when trying to put them to gether with nephews



In that case the uncles get the same thrill of creating something. I didn't specify how old the kids had to be...  :D :D
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: Nordsee on November 22, 2010, 03:11:04 pm

My take on this is that it is the act of creation that is critical.

It doesn't matter if it's a polished museum-grade model, or a plank of wood with a twig nailed onto it. You can see the pride in the kids eyes when they put something together themselves - they will be attached to that far more than any high-speed plastic bought boat...

That's why I'm trying to present a resource of simple plans for kids to really make for themselves, rather than for dad to make for them. Boats that are small enough to put on the shelf of a kids bedroom (which is where they will spend most of their life), but where the kid can look at them and think  "I made that!".


 

Where is this source of plans?
Title: Re: Getting People interested
Post by: dodgy geezer on November 22, 2010, 03:42:15 pm
Where is this source of plans?

http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/

Not a lot yet, but it will grow.....