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Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: banjo on February 22, 2007, 10:21:30 PM

Title: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: banjo on February 22, 2007, 10:21:30 PM
Anyone seen this advert?

Comments?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: riggers24 on February 22, 2007, 10:25:38 PM
At £5 a shot and 100 issues

No thanks
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 22, 2007, 10:40:03 PM
They'll probably go out of business halfway through planking the hull.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Stavros on February 22, 2007, 10:49:39 PM
Nice idea but how many of thier so called free builds have ever been finished,well lets think a m8 of mine started to collect th bits from the same company to build the subaru rally cart what  happened after x no of issues it was stopped I REST MY CASE
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on February 22, 2007, 11:04:19 PM
It WILL sell and make them a handsome profit into the margin .
I recall a similar thread raised on a model plane forum (most of them actually) about De Agostini and their part works with a Spitfire . This raised a lot of heated discussion as the Spitfire model is arguably not the easiest to fly when it complete , regardless who's kit it is  .
As it transpires The distributors took on board ALL (and there were many thousands) of comments about it (they even went on Watchdog BBC) to make sure any builder to make aware that it was outside the scope of a newcomer without flying training.
Anyway I digress , I also think it will sell and sell well as more than the few will be able to afford to buy outright this model (maybe 40" by the pics ?) in one hit as it were  and the option of a slow build at a fiver a week will appeal to some on limited income.
I reckon they will sell loads myself , I just hope that the majority of the buyers see it through and do a credible build  ;)


Oh and there were and are loads of the Deagostini Spitfires now doing the rounds up and down the country with the builders taking the idea on board that it may not of been a good choice for a first model an have taken on board the idea of joining a club and learning to fly first !
Lets hope this is a lesson learnt .

This I believe applies to boating as well before I am jumped upon !
I was actually looking at the model myself as it doesn't appear a bad un from the pics and a nice size as well , I doubt I could wait for each edition to come out though its toooooo   long winded in my opinion.

Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gribeauval on February 22, 2007, 11:25:12 PM
Picked up the first part today. The Ship is 1/200 scale,  49ins long, 7in beam  produced by Amati. The first hull sections contain some of the best laser cut ply I have come across in many years! I want to know where they get theirs from 'cause I want some!!!!!! :D The fit of these parts is first class and if the rest is as good then it will be a superb model when finished. They also will be explaining how to add r/c for beginners if wanted.
140 parts to complete may be expensive overall but with limited funds it becomes affordable over the time period so I for one WILL be buying it. As for completing the series, all the other part works I bought have never ended before the last issue.
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: chingdevil on February 22, 2007, 11:58:56 PM
I built the Subaru car, took a long while to get all the issues, just about to sell it at a car boot sale. Never got round to using it

The other Brian
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Big Mark on February 23, 2007, 08:30:49 AM
Watched the ad last night for the first time and it does look a very nice build BUT £700!!!! I know its a drip feed build at over 2 years in the making but that still seems VERY costly to me (perhapse I'm just tight)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mac.one on February 23, 2007, 10:08:44 AM
Hi all
        Here's the link for the Bismarck Kit/Magazine. It's published by Hachette publications.

http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/product.php?proID=1172137511

        Regards Julian.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on February 23, 2007, 10:12:44 AM
Hi all
        Here's the link for the Bismarck Kit/Magazine. It's published by Hachette publications.

http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/product.php?proID=1172137511

        Regards Julian.
That'll be why I couldn't find it then [wrong company] :-[

Richard ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on February 23, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
give westbourne or amodelworld a call and they will send you an aeronaught bizmark for half the price, leaving the other half to save and get RC gear for said aeronaught kit, and you will be on the water in 6 months NOT 3 years!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on February 23, 2007, 01:30:27 PM
... and you will be on the water in 6 months NOT 3 years!

Not me mate   :D :D :D :D
I am way to slow,
spend to much time on here.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gribeauval on February 23, 2007, 02:03:00 PM
give westbourne or amodelworld a call and they will send you an aeronaught bizmark for half the price, leaving the other half to save and get RC gear for said aeronaught kit, and you will be on the water in 6 months NOT 3 years!

As I said not everybody can afford £300ish all in one go and to save that much would take as long as buying the part works so I will go the part works route!! As for taking so long to build, so what??, My big Mersey took me nearly three years to build and the Tyne has taken over 12 months so far, I am far happier with the building, problem solving of a model than sailing them. In fact after a couple of times sailing and checking that the model does what I intended it to do I loose interest in it and either sell it or burn it and start again on a new project!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: KenP on February 23, 2007, 03:34:50 PM
I'm like Gribeauval, enjoy the building bit, loose interest about the sailing bit.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on February 23, 2007, 03:51:18 PM
Any chance of someone correcting that mis-spelling in the heading? It's Bismarck of course, I'm surprised Jörg hasn't said anything yet, he probably had an ancestor or two who went down with it.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 23, 2007, 04:34:02 PM
I believe that when it was rediscovered they found that the stern had broken off so maybe the spelling is correct... :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on February 23, 2007, 04:51:44 PM
I believe that when it was rediscovered they found that the stern had broken off so maybe the spelling is correct... :D

I suppose that if you missed one of the instalments, your model might end up the same way.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on February 23, 2007, 11:20:36 PM
I believe that when it was rediscovered they found that the stern had broken off so maybe the spelling is correct... :D

I suppose that if you missed one of the instalments, your model might end up the same way.

Make sure it is all there.
I bought a part works Titanic and the tops of the bulkheads were missing. ::)
I'm just waiting for the inevitable :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Pointy on February 23, 2007, 11:23:45 PM
Didn't the same magazine do a Titanic a few years back? The model was by Amati? I think thats the spelling, its an Italian company that mostly does static Nelson Navy stuff.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: evo6tme on February 24, 2007, 12:34:47 AM
i`ve got the first issue and seems like a well made model if not expensive ? U can buy the titanic now from Amati for £350 , i think it cost £500 (100 issues at £5) . people have said thay might not finish the bismarck , 2.5 years is a long time, and anything can happen in publishing in that time, and that u can get a good model from elsware. The Aeronaught model looks pants from the pictures i`ve seen, so who makes the best ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on February 24, 2007, 01:08:22 AM
i`ve got the first issue and seems like a well made model if not expensive ? U can buy the titanic now from Amati for £350 , i think it cost £500 (100 issues at £5) . people have said thay might not finish the bismarck , 2.5 years is a long time, and anything can happen in publishing in that time, and that u can get a good model from elsware. The Aeronaught model looks pants from the pictures i`ve seen, so who makes the best ???

Don't forget you do also get the magazine.

What is the content of the magazine like?
Any good?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rats on February 24, 2007, 01:57:17 AM
Bought the magazine today just for a look- 50p for first issue worth it just for the glue alone ! Agree with previous commentsabout the excellent laser cut wood also the instructions are clear and precise with fotos for each step ; just what a beginner would want. I know the total cost would be £700 but if it brought more people into this wonderfull hobby its achieved a lot !
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gingyer on February 24, 2007, 11:19:15 AM
Hi there, I have a couple of questions
1) is the Bismarck going to be able to be radio controlled
2) somebody was saying the price was £350 for the Amati kit can you please tell me where did you found that out I looked and could not see a listing for the Amati kit not even there own website
3) I think the bismark on TV does look better than the aeronaut kit (with some allowances for a professional model builder)

 I was just looking out of intrest, I went to buy issue 1 and as usual the local large newsagent was useless, how they are still in business is
beyond me so will have to go into the city to have a wee look

Colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: banjo on February 24, 2007, 12:10:22 PM
TigerTiger
 Very droll !!!
It is a beaut..
didn't get the applause it deserved!!

Make sure it is all there.
I bought a part works Titanic and the tops of the bulkheads were missing. ::)
I'm just waiting for the inevitable :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herrmill on February 24, 2007, 12:29:37 PM
Tiger,

Let me know if that price includes the postage all the way from the UK!

Chuck
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rats on February 24, 2007, 12:38:52 PM
Yes very funny tigertiger - didn't notice it - far too clever for me !!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Tom@Crewe on February 25, 2007, 11:03:06 AM
Any one with a pocket calculator would avoid these magazines what ever they offer.

Bismark  Magazines 140 magazines @ £4.99 = £698.60

Anyone who gets it has more money than sense

Harry potter chess set was the same you can go a buy one at a fifth the price
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gribeauval on February 25, 2007, 03:15:38 PM
Any one with a pocket calculator would avoid these magazines what ever they offer.

Bismark  Magazines 140 magazines @ £4.99 = £698.60

Anyone who gets it has more money than sense

Harry potter chess set was the same you can go a buy one at a fifth the price

As I said earlier mate if you haven't got a large budget then this is the only way to go.It would take me a couple of years to save even half this amount, by which time inflation has pushed up kit prices anyway, so I will take this route. Its the same as the difference between paying cash or using a credit card, you always pay more for credit!! 8)   
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Brian_C on February 25, 2007, 06:17:08 PM
the titanic kit they brought out a few yrs ago was about the same price,hellish expensive and half way though the the weekly bits, it went on sale in model shops and other mags at a price of £250.  if i really wanted to build this model ide wait till xmas when they will be throwing it on the shelves at a fraction of the cost,,,,,,,,,,,,, WOULD I HELL! IDE BUILD IT FROM SCRATCH who seroiusly can afford to purchase this kit and get the last few bits just as your retirement pension comes in the same post,,,NOT ME, ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kendalboatsman on February 28, 2007, 06:20:24 PM
Hi there, I have a couple of questions
1) is the Bismarck going to be able to be radio controlled
2) somebody was saying the price was £350 for the Amati kit can you please tell me where did you found that out I looked and could not see a listing for the Amati kit not even there own website
3) I think the bismark on TV does look better than the aeronaut kit (with some allowances for a professional model builder)

 I was just looking out of intrest, I went to buy issue 1 and as usual the local large newsagent was useless, how they are still in business is
beyond me so will have to go into the city to have a wee look

Colin


Hello Colin,

I bought the first issue today, it can be radio controlled. I also cannot finding a listing for the Amati kit. I might go the whole hog and buy the series as £5 a week isn't two big an issue. But £400 in one go is. And I detest credit cards so won't purchase one that way.

Clive
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: evo6tme on February 28, 2007, 07:24:00 PM
The kit is`NT for sale by Amati yet but if u look at the large fold out in issue 1  there are a couple of comment about them including there emblem . They probably have an agreement with hatchett part works not to sell it for a year or so, it will probably be about £500 then ? >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on February 28, 2007, 09:31:39 PM
Just been googling this one and if you look on German ebay they are selling up to issue 23 !
Quote
Holzbausatz Schlachtschiff Bismarck von Hachette,Ausgaben von 1 bis 23 Neu.Ein paar Ausgaben wurden nur zum Lesen geöfnet,die Holzteile sind alle unberührt geblieben.

Prrivatverkauf-ich übernehme keine Garantie,Umtausch oder Rückgabe nicht möglich.]Holzbausatz Schlachtschiff Bismarck von Hachette,Ausgaben von 1 bis 23 Neu.Ein paar Ausgaben wurden nur zum Lesen geöfnet,die Holzteile sind alle unberührt geblieben.

Prrivatverkauf-ich übernehme keine Garantie,Umtausch oder Rückgabe nicht möglich.


Translate it if you want to  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Shipmate60 on March 01, 2007, 05:39:27 PM
This should translate it.

   http://babelfish.altavista.com/

If you are interested.

Bob
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Shipmate60 on March 01, 2007, 05:41:18 PM
or even

Timber construction kit battle ship Bismarck von Hachette, Ausgaben from 1 to 23 Neu.Ein few expenditures only for reading, the felling trees hurry was geoefnet all remained unaffected. Prrivatverkauf prrivatverkauf-ich do not take over no warranty, conversion or return moeglich.]Holzbausatz battle ship Bismarck von Hachette, Ausgaben from 1 to 23 Neu.Ein few expenditures only for reading were geoefnet, the felling trees hurry all remained unaffected. Prrivatverkauf prrivatverkauf-ich do not take over no warranty, conversion or return possible.

Not the best translation!!

Bob
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: OneBladeMissing on March 03, 2007, 05:40:57 PM
This partwork business is a rip-off. Why spend nearly £700 over nearly three years before you (hopefully) get your model finished? Why not save up for a year and buy a kit?
£700 for the bits, then more to finish it, then motors, batteries, R/C gear, etc.
That's one expensive Bismarck!
It'll probably take longer to build than the real one did!
There have been comments that the quality of the laser-cutting is good. For that sort of money I'd want it gold-plated as well!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on March 03, 2007, 07:22:50 PM
The real one took five years to build.
I have had a look on several forums which mention this kit. The consenus of opinion is yes its expensive but al ot of people are going for it. The two DKM Bismarck forums I read we all in favour of it.
If we all had the same view and tasts wouldn't life be boaring!

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kendalboatsman on March 03, 2007, 07:56:10 PM
I am going for it on the basis that I couldn't save that sort of money in a year, also the magazines are 4.99 a week which I believe is less than 20 cigarettes from a  newsagent. I don't smoke so £5 per week for my hobby seems fair enough to me and hopefully I should have a cracking model of the Bismarck at the end of my 140 weeks.

As for motors and radio gear, my loft is heaving with them as I had few years buying, restoring and trading/selling on Tamiya radio control cars and buggies so have spare receivers/servos lying around. I also have sufficient glues and paints to avoid too much further outlay.

I look forward in nearly three years time to seeing a sudden onrush of Bismarcks on pools around the country.  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: BridRacer on March 03, 2007, 11:36:02 PM
Hi all first off sorry if i repeat anything anyone has already said. I think the bismarck kit is great as a novice builder will very limited time on my hands i can send the wife off to the shop every week to buy my copy of of the mag and i can then decide when i want to build it over that week. I had to search nearly every newsagents in the town to find my copy they were sold out in the first day...

ttfn
Chris  8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 03, 2007, 11:43:30 PM
That's an interesting point. If you miss a copy does that mean you end up with a shorter boat?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: BridRacer on March 03, 2007, 11:46:47 PM
well I've now sent the subscription form off so i'll get it delivered every month you also get FREE stuff when you do that and free is always good  ;D


Chris 8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: evo6tme on March 04, 2007, 12:36:52 AM
If u want to do it do it,money is irrelevant (2 pints a week?). I waste much more money each week?

This Post has been moved to Other Hobbies & Interests (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=29).

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3116.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3116.0)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on March 04, 2007, 10:10:41 AM
The thing about partworks is you can devote the time to put together the few pieces you get drip fed,come on admit it how many of us have uncompleted kits at least you can justify to your domestic supervisor an hour or two a week when the commitment to a full kit really does take some negotiating with your wife.with summer coming and lawns,gardens,barbeques,DIY projects shelved for winter and on and on the small bag of bits you get can have a bit of time put aside.I'm staggered by the price but more than tempted as i have a long hours job a high maintenance family but i love my boats!!!! 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on March 04, 2007, 02:57:50 PM
My Dad has signed up for this kit. The model in the pictures looks very impressive. The cost is high, but not unreasonable spread over time.

The main reason is the kits comes in stages. He's had a go at a few kits but finds being confroned with a huge number of bits in a single package a bit overwhelming. Hence being drip fed the bits a few at a time works better. He's always wanted fancies trying a battleship anyway.

The other reason is that the kit is in wood - which he prefers to GRP. I can't see it myself but each to his own.

Phil www.pagenumberone.co.uk (http://www.pagenumberone.co.uk)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on March 16, 2007, 04:47:00 PM
I have started to do the kit and it is a bit unkind to knock the thing before they have started it seams as though if (I do not want to do it i will deter as many as i can) Going in to this one knows ti is going to be a long job and cost a lot off cash ,but i for one would not be able to afford a model of this class  i did get a cossack sum time a go but that was a Christmas cum birthday presy form all my kids. The model has been out in Germany for 28 weeks or so. SO i say good luck to all those building it. Yes there are going to be problems no the way but is that not what model building is all about, over cumin them and ending up with a fantastic model>I{wood }ask all to wish me luck  the German site can be found on this link                                                                                    }{[url]http://www.baue-die-bismarck.de/viewpage.php?page_id=1 if not try putting      Build the Bismark into your googel or what ever you use good look and keep your feet dry
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on March 17, 2007, 07:34:38 AM
Its now at issue three and its full price from now on, ive got to say its the first amati kit ive tried and so far the fit and finish is superb i know its expensive but me and my lad are putting it together and he has been off the playstation and is going out with me to the local club to sail my corvette money well spent i think! 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 17, 2007, 09:23:49 AM
Sorry to be on a downer for a first post but thought the below info might throw some light on the project and a word of warning before the builders of this project get in too deep :o

1) In Germany they are at issue 27 and sadly already reporting many build problems that will no doubt be encountered here in the UK, that's bad so early on in what is a very long and expensive series.

2) The cost of £700 to collect the 140 issue series is miles out if you want to build the RC version, the RC conversion kit on offer from Hachette costs 169 Euros in Germany which is about £115. You will also need to buy a battery pack & charger, plus the obvious quantity of glue & paint etc, in issue 18 they are now talking of the use of a muslin/gauze bandage to seal/strengthen the inner sides of the Hull, this is also not supplied either!

I would hazard a guess that you might not see much change out of 1k to build the RC version :o

The big concern for the RC builder's is that from the outset there is no mention to use a waterproof PVA glue such as Aliphatic resin, issue 1 supplies a nice pot of standard PVA glue which is great for the static build but totally unsuitable for an RC buld....unless that is you want it to replicate the demise of the original ship ;D

The word via Germany is that this seriesl was only intended to build as a static display model, it was a last minute Hachette thought to give the choice of also an RC version.
This seems to back-up the available info, there is no mention of an RC version on the Hachette web site and only brief snippets of info via the backing boards that come with issue's 1 & 2 and a pull out model info sheet, neither is there any word or photo in the first three mags that suggests an RC version, hence the errors now coming to light which am sure will only grow along the way ::)

The quality of wood parts supplied via Amati are good but the marriage between static display & RC version seems frought with problems for this series, so if you are to build the static version then build away warily as suspect there are hidden problems there too, but if it's the RC route then anticipate a whole load of future headaches and complaint call's to Hachette >:(


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on March 17, 2007, 09:38:31 AM
Well pointed out i looked at the german site and read the comments these problems will sting a few im lucky i have spare gear to make the r/c version and have already used waterproof glue on it  the sealing of the hull will be a real problem for some again ive already anticipated it ive got  :)the materials to hand now as im doing a plank on frame build  i just hope this doesnt ruin this build for the less prepared,but im ploughing on with it,as a joint build with my lad im looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 17, 2007, 10:07:03 AM
There is also some confusion over the RC pack being supplied, in Germany they have two motors and three prop shafts, the inset photo on the pull-out sheet within issue 1 in the UK shows two motors and two prop shaft's, so lloks like is there no drive to the centre shaft ???

If you look on ebay Germany under hachette bismarck you will already see some three motor set-ups for sale using Speed 400's, a bloomin minefield of a kit is this for the novice but glad to read your aware of the pitfalls ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on March 17, 2007, 10:42:00 AM
 It was only by doing the necessary digging i found this not everyone has this info i have read all all the negative comments on this thread and have taken it all on board apparently the titanic of a few years ago had its problems. However although a know i am being overcharged(i cant say ripped off) but i am volunteering for it i love my hobby and i need the distraction it provides hopefully some of the people who do get bogged down can be helped by contributors to this site an unfinished project is a sad thing. ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: J.beazley on March 17, 2007, 11:01:46 AM
Personally i would like to see someone on here posting weekly pictures of the build process to show all us people that DONT wish to buy the magazine how the build is going.

Okay it might be a long winded build thread but im sure it would be a good one.

Jay
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on March 17, 2007, 11:16:57 AM
There is this-www.buildthebismarck.co.uk run by the same bloke who has several other site eg buidthe titanic and the red barons triplane it has week by week photos links to german sites due to them being months in front and a fledgling forum very good so far the titanic site is very good it has  :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on March 18, 2007, 08:53:44 PM
hear hear Leaky sum building the kit did not have a clue a bout the glue this has cum to light in the chatter on build the Bismark site i think they should put a note in the next 2 or 3  issues to let them know.                                                                                                                                                        For me i have quite a bit of stuff hanging around tx rx and a load of other bits and bob. making it water tight will be on moor challenging than  other wood built boat and as for running gear, on different to most ships that have have to be adapted be it on a larger scale. Well that is the way i look at it i have seen sum on the German's with 3 motors i can only surmise that they have got them all in their bits as their are different sizes of motors in different boats, sum one was on about having to drill holes in the frame when the trunk is glued up well do it before and drill them bigger than you would  to give room for adjustment to be made.                                                                                                                                                                                          IF you know you are  going to put it on the water you plan for this ,  at least i am people are all so talking about changing the rudders and props one lot or running and one lot for display that is crazy putting more problems in the way when it is not on the water it will only the that is not wright brigade  and expert,s will spot the difference I think people have to make mountens out of mole hills . That is not to say it will be a piece of cake i think not.Mine so far no probs yet (http://)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 19, 2007, 12:45:43 PM
Hope this info help's.....These are the Tips & Build problems being reported via Germany that fall within the first 27 issues, at least us here have advance info to make informed decision's :)

1. Ensure the Keel is constructed straight and if possible use a building Jig.

2. Assemble the frames at right-angles, this is important otherwise the Hull could take on the shape of a banana.

3. Frame 33 (at the Bow) seems to be too wide and too long when compared with the original data from the Bismarck, Hachette have not supplied the Bow yet so we can't be sure re any alteration's that may be necessary at that point.

4. Issue 14 contain's the resin part D, some have found that this part is too small so they have cut it in half and enlarged it by a few mm.
If you do this then be aware that frame 43a may then not have the correct fit for resin part D.
Some complained to Hachette and received a replacement resin part D, this part in some cases has been found to differ in dimension's probaly as a result of the moulding process.
So the advice is you should carefuly examine resin part D regarding it's fit and size and decide what to do from there.

5. Resin part 70 (stern) supplied with issue 23 will have to be corrected if you want a true scale look, the hole where the Anchor is inserted is in the wrong place.
If you look at original photo's of the Bismarck you will notice that the Anchor must be placed much higher.
If you wish you can reduce some of part 66 (with issue 21) to make the Stern higher, or you can use filler and close the hole and then re drill/relocate the Anchor position, also some modellers have sanded down the Deck by about 1-2mm and replaced the Stern.

6. After the first set of width planking of the Hull, the width at this point is the correct size for the scale, however with the addtion of a second width planking (around issue 44) this will make the Hull wider and as a result out of scale.
The second planking appears to be for the RC builders to strengthen the Hull, those building the static version have a choice.

7. Planking of the Bow will be a difficult process, the strips can be cut in half or soaked in water to make easier the bending task, these should then be pinned in place whilst the glue dry's using modelling pin's or very fine pin nails.

8. There are reports of the Stern frame 43a possibly being of the wrong dimensions or its incorrect manufacture, this is because when it comes to plank the Stern some reports advise that they have found that if you plank direct to the outline of 43a you end up with a depression spanning this point.
This can be easily overcome by carefully packing out the 43a frame edge with wood scraps so they jump the gap when the planks are located onto this former, the planks should smoothly flow across the Hull without being depressed.
Not all have found this problem so it is likey to be a few poorly manufactured 43a frames that have slipped the net or even possibly as a result of poor construction.

9. Hachette are to supply only two motors for the RC version, this means that only two of it's three propeller's will be active, the third (central) propeller will remain static but will give the appearance of the original ship's design.
If you do want to have an operating centre prop then you should start thinking about this early on with a view to sourcing the extra motor & parts etc you will need, you will also need to consider the ESC & wiring for this as that what is to be suplied may not be suitable, in addition to this also how a central prop might act on its steering once in water.
Issue 8 comes with Keel parts for the Stern, this is probably the time to look very closely at the installation of a third (central) motor & prop shaft.

Motor's etc are obviously not a problem for the static builders of this model as the series comes with all you need to replicate the original ship.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 13, 2007, 06:50:00 PM
Well my first 3 parts have turned up - unfortunately 1, 2 & 4!
I'll also start a build blog when part 3 turns up....

Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Bryan Young on April 13, 2007, 07:37:32 PM
Why are we (you) re-hashing these old subjects? Life is confusing enough without thinking "I have seen this before" and not wondering if it is just a case of senile deja-vu. Put this oldie out of his trepidation and explain...or not.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dougal99 on April 13, 2007, 08:07:00 PM
Brian

I think there is no such thing as an old subject, just a dormant one. If any member feels he has something to add to a dormant thread he is, of course, at liberty to add to it. This allows those of us with myopic memories to read again what we have forgotten (or not as the case may be).

HTH

Doug
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on April 14, 2007, 03:47:47 AM
Some people will be very interested in seeing this build.
Despite what others may think of the project.



The concept of partworks created so much controversy it will be good to see this thread develop.
I for one am very interested, even though I have no interest in warships. Nor am I a fan of partworks.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kendalboatsman on April 14, 2007, 07:23:30 AM
I too am interested in seeing how the model develops, keep up the updates on the build chaps.

Clive :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 14, 2007, 11:55:44 AM

For me it's the concept and the constrution technique..... not the subject.

.....and the fact you Could Possibly pay for a very expensive kit "on the cheap".... even trick the Mrs!  ::) 
Well not mine...  :-\

Martin.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on April 14, 2007, 01:32:33 PM
I would also like to know what other content if any is in the magazine portion.
It could be a lot of interesting history/tech details on a plate.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: John W E on April 14, 2007, 07:33:47 PM
For me it's the concept and the constrution technique..... not the subject.

Hi all, I have to agree with Martin's above statement - its always good to see how another person builds/manufactures something.  You can always learn from it and adapt it to your way of building. 

One thing that did come mind for me was, a friend who I used to work with once built a sailing ship from a magazine which gave free parts every week.  What he did was, he copied everything, all the frames and etc., and then he bought some planking.   My friend ended up making two models.  One model which was from the magazine he made complete, the second model which he constructed - he made it as only half a model which showed all the internal detail.   Obviously, it may be slightly more difficult to do with this magazine build as there may be I should imagine, lots of resin fittings.   However, I should think you could overcome that.   Mind, it would be nice to see two models built - one working and one for display with the internal structure visible.

Food for thought again...keep the pics coming please.   We can then see how the build progresses.

Aye
John E
bluebird
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on April 14, 2007, 09:38:02 PM
Hi John,
DelPrado did that with their HMV Bounty a while back, the port side had a section which you could remove showing the internal compartments. Not a bad kit but the instructions were not clear in places. The part work ran for 105 issues. I still havn't got around to finishing it as the rigging instruction was boardering on the gibberish, must get it out one day and finish it.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on April 22, 2007, 06:36:48 PM
I have jsut read on www.buildthebismarck.co.uk forum that someone has a letter with his issue 4 that states Hatchette is cancelling the series. He has scanned the letter and published it on the site. The letter looks ok and offer a refund if you send the mag covers or a gift. As my son has just started subscribing we havn't had issue 4 yet? Anyone else subscribe and has received this letter? Apparently WH Smiths sold to order issue 8 last wednesday and at the bottom of the letter is did say this applies to the UK only. Tommorrow I'll give them a ring but normally its a long wait on the telephone queing system.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on April 23, 2007, 09:22:52 AM
Just phoned Hachette and have been told that the letter was sent out in error,i can hear the i told you so's already its a bad error as they go-some sort of explanation would be nice though.Can someone else confirm this please as i had to call twice as the call centre is obviously abroad and i had a bit of trouble being understood the first time. ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 23, 2007, 09:25:51 AM
What part / issue  is everybody up to?
I've received parts 1, 2 & 4, are the issue arriving regularly and on time?

Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on April 23, 2007, 10:31:04 AM
just got part 2&3 seems subscribers start slow then catch up in a while seems to be a similair story on the build the titanic i have to admit after being enthusiastic im slightly disappointed it does not bode well, but nil carborundum as we say where i work
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on April 23, 2007, 10:36:47 AM
We have had parts 1, 2&3, we are waiting for 4 etc. I have heard that they send them out on the 28th of each month?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on April 23, 2007, 02:10:01 PM
I hate dealing with foreign call centres they don't seem to understand a word you say to them, or is that just me!!

They say issues 4-7 have just been dispatched and I should receive them in the next two days. They also said the bank rejected my payment card details, rightly so as the details they had didn't belong to me. So I need to scruitinise my bank statement even more closely than usual.

The letter some people have received was sent out in error, I bet someone is now looking for a new job.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herrmill on April 24, 2007, 06:09:20 AM
I am all for keeping up the installments. I think Tiger can agree with me that this is far better than watching any Chinese TV drama unfold!!   ::)

Am curious how your builds go & as well the satisfaction you have in this type of kit.   Personally for me, the notion of having to depend on the mail to deliver my next installment of parts would drive me nuts!   :o

Chuck
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 09, 2007, 10:57:37 PM

Well after weeks of delays, hiccups and phone calls to the magazine people, I'm now only 2 months behind with parts 5, 6, 7 & 8 in the post I'm assured. So with the first 4 parts now to hand I've decided to make a start.... build    HERE!    (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg39250#msg39250)   

 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dreadnought72 on May 10, 2007, 10:07:23 AM
Re: Martin builds a Bismark! - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.0)


I DO like the line:   "For Authenticity your Model is made from: Birchwood ply."

(Images of Blohm and Voss yards in 1936 covered in huge sheets of plywood...)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on May 10, 2007, 10:11:15 AM


Wood is first class quality.
(NB: I've never built a wooden model before! )


Those two lines rang faint alarm bells. As a scratch builder, my experience of modern kits is much less than yours, but I do help out friends and clubmates with building queries from time to time, and a very common problem seems to be getting adhesives to bond wood items that have been laser cut. It seems to depend on what type of glue you use, possibly also on how good the cutting was, but I've seen a few examples where the black deposit left by the laser can act as a pretty effective release agent. Of course, the extra work involved in removing most of the burned surface before applying glue, more or less negates the advantage of having the parts pre-cut in the first place. Don't want to worry you needlessly Martin, you may well be OK with the aliphatic glue you're using, but I'd suggest applying a modicum of force to one or two joints, just to make sure that you aren't building problems into the model.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on May 11, 2007, 10:04:04 AM
Good luck Martin and may the time-force be with you!  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 11, 2007, 01:48:32 PM
Hi ammo,
Why do you recommend "removing the burned surface"?
There is no ash or the like and glue seems to stick very well.....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on May 11, 2007, 04:09:25 PM
Hi ammo,
Why do you recommend "removing the burned surface"?
There is no ash or the like and glue seems to stick very well.....

Well, I did qualify my post by making it clear that I was some way from being an expert on today's kits and their component parts. I've seen examples of laser cutting though, almost certainly not very good laser cutting, where all the  cut edges had a coating of black dust like fine soot that came off on your finger, and some glues CA in particular wouldn't bond very well at all. I said that I didn't want to worry you needlessly, and if flexing your Bismarck doesn't reduce it to the laser-cut parts you started with, you should be in the clear. So! Alles in ordnung, mein kleiner Schiffbauer!
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 11, 2007, 04:54:55 PM

 So! Alles in ordnung, mein kleiner Schiffbauer!



What did you call my mother?!?!?!?  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on May 12, 2007, 06:26:35 PM
My Dad signed up for this. Parts 1-3 turned up OK but despite several weeks of chasing there is no sign of anything later. He spoke to the "customer care line" who basically told him to get stuffed. I then sent a slightly ranty e-mail and got the reply:

SUBJECT: KNITTING.K5/3097. ???

Thank you for your e-mail dated: 30/04/2007.

I will like to confirm I have today requestd issues 4-6 to be sent out for
you.

I will like to advice unfortunately issue 7 is currently out of stock,
however this issue will be sent out for you as soon as we receive stock.

Kindly note issues 4-6 will be dispatched in due course.

Please accept my sincere apology for the late response.



Kind Regards
Jonathan Moleta
Customer Care


That was a week ago. Still no sign of any parts. This is very anoying as going for this was a big step. The total build wasn't going to be cheap but the idea of getting it in small chunks was very appealing. I suppose if it was going to fold then after 3 issues isn't so bad as after 50 but it would still be nice to have a civilised discussion with Hachette where they told the truth.

Phil  >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on May 13, 2007, 12:38:09 AM
Looking at this it is a customer service 'spin' letter that promises nothing.
But they do appologise.



SUBJECT: KNITTING.K5/3097. ??? [No guarantee this is about the Bismarck]

Thank you for your e-mail dated: 30/04/2007.

I will like to confirm I have today requestd  issues 4-6 to be sent out for
you. [not sent out, and there is no promise that they even exist]

I will like to advice unfortunately issue 7 is currently out of stock,
however this issue will be sent out for you as soon as we receive stock. [if they ever recieve any]

Kindly note issues 4-6 will be dispatched in due course. [no date, may also be out of stock]

Please accept my sincere apology for the late response.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 14, 2007, 07:49:41 AM

I'm having the same problem.
It just seems that they have no mechanism for ANY subscribers to catch up!
In my case, any back issues take two or three weeks to catch up but they won't send out the current issues in the mean time.
Surely it would be their interest to sort out missing issues independently of the current issue so we not always on a catch up.

Magazine OK, parts OK subscription service .... wanting.

Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on May 14, 2007, 09:14:49 AM
The problem my son and I are having is that after I filled out my bank card details the bank sent me a new card with a slightly different number on. When I rang the customer services dept and waited for sometime for someone to answer it, I had a difficulty in getting them to understand the card details had changed. Two weeks later a letter came to say they couln't take any money out of my account due to invalid card details. Another 'phone call to tell them the correct number AGAIN! the person on the other said the invoice with the next issues would have the payment on they couln't take out of my account plus the second batch issue total and this would take 10-14 days for the transaction to happen.
After looking at my bank account I found they took the first payment out for issues 2&3 but not for the second batch of issues I received. the invoice for the second batch only had the total for that batch on.

Communication with them is difficult at times, now I am waiting for the next batch to arrive and my bank statement to see what they have taken out. The staff in customer services doe not seem to have much idea what their finace dept is doing and how they do it.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on May 14, 2007, 11:30:19 AM
This is always the problem with partwork series if you subscribe direct, you would be better simply collecting from your newsagent as supply rarely misses a beat and you will complete the series a good 6 weeks before subscribers do as there supply always runs behind those who go via the newsagent ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on May 14, 2007, 12:37:42 PM
I agree but the newsagent by me won't order it as I am the only one so far who asked about it. Still my son is not in any rush... which is a good job judging by hattchtes performance so far.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on May 14, 2007, 01:05:35 PM
Thats a shame, it might be worthwhile checking out another newsagent as subscribing only brings hassle and the extra cost of constant chase-up calls, whats worse is there is an awful long way to go :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on May 17, 2007, 05:12:00 PM
Just recieved issues 4,5&6 and a snazzy little tool kit Got all the tools anyway but these come in case so useful at the pondside.There is an article regarding various adhesives i think its a way of helping those who choose to sail their kit as i believe its designed as a static. :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Nightraker on May 18, 2007, 08:45:40 PM
 :'( 
[/left
Hi Martin...did you subscribe to the Magazine??  ...I have,     only recieved parts 1,2,3,...recieved nothing since and believe its up to part 10 now...........Stu
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 18, 2007, 08:49:17 PM

Hi Stu,

Yep! All signed up but not impressed with the subscription / post dept!!

Still held up at issue 4.... for 3 weeks now!  >:(



:'( 
[/left
Hi Martin...did you subscribe to the Magazine??  ...I have,     only recieved parts 1,2,3,...recieved nothing since and believe its up to part 10 now...........Stu
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Nightraker on May 18, 2007, 09:02:57 PM
Cheers Martin      least I do not feel alone on this one........modelled 1:16 Tiger and Lepeord Tanks and hundreds of 1:50 white metal trucks...but yes my first attempt at  Wood.....Ships not really my scene...But have always really been crazy on The German Battleships..Bismarck and Tirpitz.....so really looking forward to this....will keep watching your site......this is a first (Forum) for me :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on May 18, 2007, 09:31:57 PM
There are nice Aeronaut Kits out there... at last you have the kit in one piece at home... no need to wait.

Btw. Martin, no colors here...  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on May 20, 2007, 08:21:31 PM
Hooray - Parts 4,5 & 6 have turned up for my Dad. He spoke to the publishers again and it seems that the next batch have also been sent out.

Looks like there was a hold up while they worked out how many packs they needed to produce. Pity about the rubbish customer service though.

Incidentally, if anyone is into part works there is an excellent newsagent in Ely high street who seems to have at least some of every partwork produced in the last 10 years in his shop - except the Bismark !

Phil :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on May 21, 2007, 08:00:44 AM

Hi Stu,

Yep! All signed up but not impressed with the subscription / post dept!!

Still held up at issue 4.... for 3 weeks now!  >:(



:'( 
[/left
Hi Martin...did you subscribe to the Magazine??  ...I have,     only recieved parts 1,2,3,...recieved nothing since and believe its up to part 10 now...........Stu

I notice there is an issue 4 on ebay at a start price of 99p might be worthy of a shot as you could be waiting ages :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on May 21, 2007, 08:46:23 AM
Another good place to look is on ebay as there always seems to be mags floating around on there ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Willit on May 23, 2007, 07:56:57 PM
probably a stupid question Martin...but are you going to make yours a runner or static?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 23, 2007, 08:07:40 PM

Well it's static at the moment... VERY STATIC!   >:(
I'm stuck on issue 4, no sign of 5, 6, 7, or 8.....   :(

But yes I will make mine radio control with three motors and three shafts.
Here's an intersting link about the Bismarck propellers -  Here's an intersting link about the Bismarck propellers  (http://www.bismarck-class.dk/technicallayout/rudders_propellers/rudders_propellers.htm)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on May 23, 2007, 08:24:33 PM
Try this one Martin , it works.

Richard ;)

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/technicallayout/rudders_propellers/rudders_propellers.html
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: zanussi on May 24, 2007, 05:01:05 PM
Hey Martin, good luck! I was very sorely tempted, I started the Spitfire kit but my bone idle postman would not deliver it, always claimed no one was in, so I kept having to travel miles and queuing up at the sorting office to collect it only to find it buried and broken. I thought the kit quality excellent and the articles spot on even so and I hope your Bismark does you proud.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on May 24, 2007, 05:19:35 PM
Hi Martin, On the glue issue a friend of mine, who builds full size boats for a living told me that as wood is cellular structure and most glues bind by penetrating this. The laser cutting in effect seals the cells and prevents penetration hence the week joints. Sounds reasonable I suppose. Anyway he told me this as he watched me build the St Canute and I did sand each edge and tested a few joints to make sure it was enough. It might be put to the test at the weekend.  Graham :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 24, 2007, 07:54:49 PM

Good point Cptn,
..... but you haven't seen the amount of glue I normally use!
By the end of this build, there will be a white waterproof PVA hull held together with a wooden skeleton!  ::)

Martin
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on May 24, 2007, 10:20:42 PM
Had 2 letters from Hattechte today saying that my bank card details were not valid. So I rang them up and asked them what card details they had. It turned out they had the correct details and the letters dated 10th May should not have been sent out. They also said that my account was paid upto date as a payment had been made on 20th May. Quite good as banks don't work Sundays, whan I quizzed them on how come the letter was sent they aid that the 20th April payment was refused as card not valid so they tried again a month later. My reply was of course it was refuse some numpty had put the wrong number down against my card details which I did inform them on the 2nd May and I was told the details are now correct. When I asked when the next delivery was going to be made the person said issues 4, 5 and 6 was on its way. No there not as I have had them for a month! When is the next batch due, reply was in about 10-14 days.

Great kit.... so far but useless customer services, when you can understand their accent. Reading other build the Bismarck forums I am not alone in having difficulty with them.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on May 25, 2007, 01:00:14 PM

Good point Cptn,
..... but you haven't seen the amount of glue I normally use!
By the end of this build, there will be a white waterproof PVA hull held together with a wooden skeleton!  ::)

Martin
 


Martin, its not the ammount of glue thats put on the parts. The parts must be free of the laser burned surface. Some rubs with sanding paper are enough. And dont forget to seal the wood against water  ;)

The colors didnt arrived here... maybe they thought its a bomb... stupid G8, they are all paranoid here!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Nightraker on May 26, 2007, 08:20:07 PM
 ??? Well at long last there was a card from the post office stating a parcel to collect
This is it,           parts 4 and 5 at long last..........Wrong
Parts 6,7,and 8....and the toolbox.........so thats clever  my ships going to have a hole in it ( well lets face it this is truly going to be an exact replica,   because eventually the real one had a few holes in it)
But to add to the injury I also have received a bill for parts 4 and 5
Oh Hatchette......when are we going to get it right.........Another phone call to a far off land....what a shame this model looks to be excellent


Stu
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DavidHale on May 26, 2007, 11:30:43 PM
Hi Martin, On the glue issue a friend of mine, who builds full size boats for a living told me that as wood is cellular structure and most glues bind by penetrating this. The laser cutting in effect seals the cells and prevents penetration hence the week joints. Sounds reasonable I suppose. Anyway he told me this as he watched me build the St Canute and I did sand each edge and tested a few joints to make sure it was enough. It might be put to the test at the weekend.  Graham :)
A laser (obviously) cuts by burning.  I suspect what is happening is that the laser is burning the wood to cut it and melting the glues between the plys at the same time, which then solidifies and 'seals' the wood.  A standard wood glue then struggles to bond properly. A quick sanding should help matters.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on May 28, 2007, 08:54:54 PM
HI all, started to do the model to sail three motors and i an getting on well got the running gear and the first lair of planking finished thanks to timber i had it was for another build i was going to do. Have used the planking they sent to line the in side so it can be filled with fome for boyency when cam batt,s are charged will post picks of inside. Getting my parts weekly and had no problems so far.Was doing Bismarck in bits but this is far better so will stop as not to good at computer lark nor at writing stuff better with hands not brains.Should get part 14 on Wednesday the part i have had have bean OK so fa. 8)r
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on May 29, 2007, 09:48:28 PM
hear is mine so far
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 29, 2007, 11:34:41 PM
Hi jinks8,

Are you in the UK and up to part 14?!?!?!?

HOW?????  >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on May 30, 2007, 12:32:36 AM
yes up in north Yorkshire get part 14 today around 1500 hrs got the running gear from Germany got the brass props as well and they are not bad at all.  So far had no prob,s well no big ones that is the thing that is not to clear is the sequence of the build had a look on the German site and no sine of bow front and they are up to 38and building sum of the super structure be for the deck is done .But  will not give up  regard s john 8) 8) 8) had timber to hand
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 01, 2007, 10:39:46 AM
Well I've just had another long and torturous   conversation with http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/ (http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/) call centre in South Africa (?)
They are saying they are the "agents" for Hachett Part Works and cannot supply the magazines the same timing as the shops!
They say the shops (news agents etc.) receive the magazines before they do and the agents "seem to get the left overs" in my opinion.
I'm currently on issue 4, as below, but despite 2 phone calls to "Hachette" over the last month my next issues 5,6,7 & 8 have only been "allocated" 3 days ago?!?!?

I then asked 'how they propose for me to catch up?'
They said 'there is no way they can catch up with the shops.'
I said, 'OK, why don't you send me the current & future issues now and you can sort out the back issues as they become available?'
They said, 'No, they can't do that as they are "not on a par with the shops."
I said, ‘so there is no way I can catch up!’
…….”No.”


Make you own judgment........  :-\

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on June 01, 2007, 10:49:29 AM
This is all starting to sound like something that your friendly local Trading Standards could be persuaded to take an interest in.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 01, 2007, 12:06:54 PM
I had a similar conversation with them this morning, they claim to have sent issues 5,6 and 7 sent out on wednesday, and I still keep getting letters saying my bank detail are wrong even thougth they take the correct amount out. Also they keep verifiying that my bank details are correct on their system and when the paymants are made which correspond with my bank.

Hattchetts customer services are a total shambles.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 01, 2007, 12:21:13 PM
One thing I have noticed during my numerious 'phone calls to them, it sounds like the same person answering the 'phones, at times I have to wait around 5 minutes before they answer.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dougal99 on June 01, 2007, 04:30:57 PM
I bet the call centre is an 0870 number... They are probably making more money from the calls than from the mag.

Cynical moi?

Doug
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 01, 2007, 04:42:52 PM
It is an 0870 number that's why I ring from work!!!

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 04, 2007, 09:33:27 AM
Well I've just had another long and torturous   conversation with http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/ (http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/) call centre in South Africa (?)
They are saying they are the "agents" for Hachett Part Works and cannot supply the magazines the same timing as the shops!
They say the shops (news agents etc.) receive the magazines before they do and the agents "seem to get the left overs" in my opinion.
I'm currently on issue 4, as below, but despite 2 phone calls to "Hachette" over the last month my next issues 5,6,7 & 8 have only been "allocated" 3 days ago?!?!?

I then asked 'how they propose for me to catch up?'
They said 'there is no way they can catch up with the shops.'
I said, 'OK, why don't you send me the current & future issues now and you can sort out the back issues as they become available?'
They said, 'No, they can't do that as they are "not on a par with the shops."
I said, ‘so there is no way I can catch up!’
…….”No.”


Make you own judgment........  :-\



Partwork companies all operate on the same principal, to get as many people as possible to buy into a series, how this happens is that a series magazine goes on sale in a newsagent, any unsold left overs are then sent back to Hachette or in this case Jacklin's it handling company, then usually 3-4 weeks later subscribers are then sent these unsold mags.

You will never be at the same issue number as a retail customer and always behind by at least 4 mags, this way it also gives the partwork company a second bite of the cherry so to speak, any shortfall in mags is then made up from a top-up order to the manufacture and hence yet further delays >:(

My advice is simple, DO NOT subscribe to any partwork as if there are any problems in supply it is always the subscribers that bear the brunt of it, also the quickest route to complete a series is via the newsagent and NOT via subscription as subscribers generally run at least 6-8 weeks behind newsagents ;)

Subscription is frought with disappointment & frustration, out of stock excuses, delay's, damage by the posty etc etc, also the reason why they offer so called free gifts (which are usually poor quality items) is to tempt you to subscribe.

I only subscribed once a long time ago and vowed I would never do it again, I'am currently at issue 15 of the Bismarck and it has never missed a beat via my newsagent, better still my model will be complete way before subscribers models are ;D

Why dont you get your local newsagent to get the mag for you from the issue you want onwards, then kick your subscription into touch, cos if you dont you might loose the will to live on hearing the constant excuses from these foreign call centres who cant understand your problem let alone the cost of the call :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 04, 2007, 10:35:42 AM
I agree newsagents are the best way to go but... I have subscribed before to part works without the shambles Jacklin/Hatchette are making of this one. My local newsagent won't order it as I would be the only one and to make it worth thier while they want at least 5 people to place a order with them. the next nearest one is quite a drive away which makes it a tad inconvienient. driving into town is costly in time, (traffic jams), parking charges £1.40 per hour and convienience. Thats why I subscribe, I don't mind waiting.

Having said that now I'm going to ring up somewhere foriegn to find out where my latest parts  are, ( on the works 'phone!).

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 04, 2007, 10:43:31 AM
Am I right in thinking that the call centre 0870 920 1133 is in South Africa, i ahd a different person on the 'phone to the normal lady. He said parts 7,8,9,10 & 11 were sent out yesterday, when I asked is that possible to send parts out via Royal Mail on a Sunday he said yes I should get them today or tommorrow. Last week they said they were supposed to be sent out on wednesday.

Good job juniour and I are patient.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 04, 2007, 10:57:32 AM
Yeah its a shame for those who have difficulties with newsagents

Hachette's office number in the UK is 0207 7493900 the person you want is Isabelle Couderc
or email isabelle.couderc@hachettepartworks.co.uk

They will try and filter the call to put you back to Jacklin's in South Africa, be firm and specific as who you want to speak with, hope it helps ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 04, 2007, 12:35:50 PM
Excellent thanks for the number and contact name.

Many thanks
Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 04, 2007, 02:31:14 PM
No probs and hope the info gets some action for you ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 05, 2007, 01:10:24 PM
Latest fiasco, they didn't put enough postage on the parcel, so tonight or first thing in the morning I have to go to the post office depot and cough up £1.24.

I rang Isabelle and she is going to sort out why they didn't put enough postage on and why I keep getting letters saying my card dtails are wrong when they arn't and the correct amount is taken out of my account.

Now I am awaiting someone to call me back, I won't hold my breath.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 05, 2007, 01:45:57 PM
They are taking the P now, well at least you cant get much higher to file a complaint, makes you wonder with all these mishaps how Jacklins are still in business ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 05, 2007, 02:21:33 PM
Is Jacklin anything to do with the ex-golfer Tony?

I agree what a shambles, I wait to see what they make a mess of next, Isabelle did say she would get one of the managers at the call centre to see what has gone wrong and they should have shorted everything out without me ringing the top brass. The impression I got was that Jacklins have made a mess of this part work.

On a seperate note I wonder if DeAgostini is in trouble as they have cancelled several of their partworks so I am told half way through their run. I got this from someone who was collecting their clocks.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 05, 2007, 05:44:23 PM
Jacklin's is a South African based fulfilment company who have a warehouse in the northeast of the UK to serve the UK though as you know its call centre is in Sth Africa, there seem to be three fulfilment houses that the UK partwork companies spread there product across, Jacklin's, Spark Response & Database, the latter two both have UK based call centres so I suppose the language barrier is not a problem for these.

As for Deag being in trouble....I doubt it, they operate in 33 countries and are the largest of all the partwork companies.
You will find that they all test product all year long, usually for 4-6 issues in a localised area to get the feel of how well something might do as a future national, I should imagine not everything makes the grade as partwork companies operate on massive figures to ensure viability.
I read some stuff about Del Prado (who did the Cutty Sark series) recently in the press, it said they were in financial trouble in the UK, hence probably why you dont see much of there stuff around at the moment.

Hachette did a clock series, though I cant say I have heard of one thru deag, sure your mate does not mean Hachette?

Its a risky business is partworks/publishing and a minefield of getting numbers right ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 05, 2007, 09:54:16 PM
probibly is Hatchette, he started collecting minature clocks and the series abruptly stopped half way through the expected run. I seem to remember one, can't be more than one partwork on clocks. I suppose he got them mixed up.

He did mention another partwork that stopped halfway through recently but I forgot which one he said. Age I suppose??????

Didn't get time to sort out the P. O. with my misisng parts, I'll try to do that tomorrow work permitting.

Daryl


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 06, 2007, 08:17:58 AM
Yeah miniature clocks was defo one of Hachette's, I suppose partworks is partwroks and as deag are the largest it is the first name that comes into mind especially when a senior moment kicks in....I know the feeling ;D

A good place to look is on deags web site in there title listing, if you carefully scroll down the list you will see some titles not seen on TV or in the shops which I would hazard a guess are most likely local tests, though even then some titles do not even appear on the list at all like the Hood which was recently killed off at issue 4......probably becuse too many were already tied into the Bismarck and its expensive to have two partworks on the go at the same time.

Another good site to check out is deag's italian web site where most of there build-up starts off, see the product list down the left-hand column, loks like they dont have many plans for much boat stuff other than a yacht 

www.deamodellab.it/frontend/index.asp
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 06, 2007, 09:35:59 AM
Good Site, I see what you mean a distinct lack of boats. Years ago I built the Delprado Bounty, made a bit of a mess of the planking but not a bad job. I have their cutty sark which I will attempt one day. One thing i have noticed is the Delprado instructions are a bit vauge at times and I get the impression they are a bad translation into english. On the other hand so far with the few issues Ihave had the Hattechte instructions seem quite clear.

I'll see today what the P.O. has to say when I hopefully go and get my latest bits. can't help feeling this series is going to be a bit of a shambles for a while until both paties, Jacklin in particular get the hang of it! I have collected partworks before and this has been the worst start I have yet seen.

Daryl

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 06, 2007, 12:51:51 PM
Hopefully you are in the minority but somehow if its subscribers I suspect not.
 
All the hassle generated will only result repeat business being carefully considered by many, there are lots out there that take an interest in such builds which have never bought into a partwork, after having read the fallout postings all around the net its likley they never will.
One thing for sure is if enough repeat business falls off and they cant attract enough new customers then partworks as an industry in the UK looks bleak, though it seems in Italy, Spain & France where all the partwork HO's are they seem to be a way of life.

All I can say is I'am at issue 15 and all so far is well but a very long way to go, it never misses a beat via the newsagent, no hassle with invoices & payment, no damaged parts, no late deliveries and not behind with the intended build though right now am sick of planking and ton's more yet to come!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 06, 2007, 01:52:38 PM
I agree, I wonder what the circulation figures are? and how many people are having problems? I read with interest the two web site buildthebismarck .com and .co.uk. It seems the problems are rife with disatisfaction with the call centre high on the list.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 06, 2007, 04:29:51 PM
I reckon something like 10 thou initially start off such a series as i know for fact that partwork co's work in many thousands not hundreds, if only 4 thou see such a series thru to its end thats 2,800,000 for a boat & mag that might have cost them a combined price of around £100 each unlike the £700 they are asking, they must have some massive overheads, either that or someone is getting richer by the day!

As for complaints, well the net is full of em on partwork co's and I recall they even appear on watchdog, having said that people still continue to buy into them so there must be some very happy customers out there or do they constantly rely on new blood cos you can only skin a cat once!




 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 07, 2007, 12:36:36 PM

Well my latest instalments have turned up today, 5, 6 and........ 8 !?!  >:(

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 12:55:24 PM
Mine turned up too. 7,8,9,10 &11.

Reading some of the posts on buildthebismarck.co.uk some of the people there seem not to have built a kit before. Lots of strange posts in very bad english with weird ideas. I know we all have to start somewhere but alot of people don't seem to read the instructions before glueing things together. On there is a list of faults found in Germany which is months ahead of us, they are on something like part 38 odd. There is a rush to order the r/c bits from a couple of German suppliers. Jumping the gun??

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 12:55:57 PM
Thats absolute rubbish service, in my view subscribers should take priority as they are just that >:(

If it was me I would be giving Hachette hell, at this rate the so called 140 week series is gonna take you 150 weeks + to complete and no doubt there will more delays along the way as your only at issue 8 out of 140 and even then you have one missing >:(

You could well be looking at a build taking well over 3yrs, wonder how long the real Bismarck took to build?

Just to pee you off even more, yesterday I picked up issue 15 via the newsagent ;D ......more flippin planks!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 07, 2007, 12:58:51 PM
Mine turned up too. 7,8,9,10 &11.

Daryl

OK Daryl, who do you know ?!?!  ;D
Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 01:00:46 PM
Eh???

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 01:02:32 PM
 
Ordered: 16 November 1935
Laid down: 1 July 1936
Launched: 14 February 1939
Commissioned: 24 August 1940


Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 07, 2007, 01:03:22 PM
How come I only got parts 5,6 & 8 when you got parts 8,9, 10 AND 11 when they told me these were not available?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 01:19:55 PM
 
Ordered: 16 November 1935
Laid down: 1 July 1936
Launched: 14 February 1939
Commissioned: 24 August 1940

At this rate the 12in to the foot scale was quicker.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 01:22:02 PM
Mine turned up too. 7,8,9,10 &11.

Reading some of the posts on buildthebismarck.co.uk some of the people there seem not to have built a kit before. Lots of strange posts in very bad english with weird ideas. I know we all have to start somewhere but alot of people don't seem to read the instructions before glueing things together. On there is a list of faults found in Germany which is months ahead of us, they are on something like part 38 odd. There is a rush to order the r/c bits from a couple of German suppliers. Jumping the gun??

Daryl

Could not agree more, seems a bit daft to me in that questions are being asked that the build advice in the mag tells you about, seems like some people simply dont read the mag build info, and are worrying about things way down the line that will become evident along the way.
Okay the mag is not as descript as it could be but some seem to be assembling by pictures alone or how they think the build should go, then when it goes pearshaped they will be the first to slate the project ::)

One big criticism of the mag is that there is still no mention of the need of waterprof glue if you wish to build the RC version, that to me is irresponsble of Hachette as am sure there will be quite a few ships spring apart in the water, who will be to blame then ???

Yeah I have seen the German RC stuff being offered, I must admit one guy seems to have the experience & knowledge of boats and offering a complete pacage, (wonder if he will still be around when some struggle with the installation of this equipment),  but for a novice to go down a route of mixers three motors and all it involves might overwhelm many, it sounds great in principle but maybe some should simply stick with what is being offered to avoid future heartache.

One thing I dont think many have considered is that anyone who deviates from the intended build will have no comeback on Hachette if there model sinks or as a result of the mods things then dont fit as they will be viewed as having modified the model and Hachette will simply walk away :'(





Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 01:24:06 PM
How come I only got parts 5,6 & 8 when you got parts 8,9, 10 AND 11 when they told me these were not available?!?!?!?

Its what they do best martin.....lie thru there back teeth >:(

Or maybe they did not have enough shop returns to send what you needed ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 01:30:02 PM

Ordered: 16 November 1935
Laid down: 1 July 1936
Launched: 14 February 1939
Commissioned: 24 August 1940

At this rate the 12in to the foot scale was quicker.

Daryl

Says it all ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 01:31:11 PM
Good point, the buildthebismarck forums (.co.uk and.com) posts have been popping up for the last week with people saying they have got there parts including the elusive 7. Is it me or did they say in the first part that we woudl get 4 parts per month? so far issue 1 I got from Smiths, three weeks later I got 2&3, one month later I got 4, 5& 6 and now SIX weeks later I got parts 7 to 11. interesting to see how long I have to wait untilt he next batch turns up. Whatever numbers they are.

Martin have you rang Hattechtte with the UK number you might get somewhere withthem as reading between the lines they have had quite a few 'calls complaining about Jacklins lack of help.

Also if you look on buildthebismarck.co.uk ther is a list of known faults found in Germany, these might be worth bearing in mind to see if they had sorted them out in the UK realease. Thereis a lot of other so called faults listed on that web site most of them are spurious with people not reading the instructions properly.

Keep us informed with how you are getting on. So far junior who is building this on has said the instructions are very good to follow, some of the frame are a very tight fit and one or two are a bit sloppy.But all together it is going together well and he is very pleased with it. Just for the record he's 14 and this is his 4th r/c boat he is doing and he has been modelling since he was 10. I've been doing this for over 30yrs off and on

Daryl

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 01:38:13 PM
Its good he has an experienced guiding hand as its easy to get carried away with a wish list as a novice (which many building the Bismarck are) such as rotating turrets etc like some are doing.

Hopefully the supply problems will be sorted soon as only goes to it spoil the anticiaption of the build.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 01:47:23 PM
He intends building it out of the box or should that be out of the letterbox. Sam says he would like twin drive and a mixer to help steering.We are currently renovating a US crusier, (same version as nomustang mark has just over the river from us) that we intend to put roatating turrets and sound/smoke system in, the Bismarck however is very much Sam's project. Some of the ideas on the other web site are very advanced for novices. This looks as though it is going to turn out a good kit, as a belt and braces job we are lining the inside of the hull with resin. Good point about the glue I am surprised too they didn't mention it.

Sam reads the mag before he starts anything and preferably reads the next one to see what is lined up next.

Me apart from the crusier I am finishing off a Caldercraft puffer( nightmare instructions and parts fit) and then on to HMS Lion.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 01:52:25 PM
Just a thought how many of 'us' are members of buildthebismarck.co.uk ? the.com site seem a bit more sensable but as Paul Daniles says not a lot.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 02:16:47 PM
I just dip in the 'other' sites now & then though the .co.uk site's build seems way behind which is a little odd when that is what the site is about, there are a few others around too which are a waste of space, like you say the .com site seems more sensible though seems very quiet.

I think the Bismarck kit itself will be be okay and many should have a very nice ship at the end of the series, certainly cant rush the build and it does come from a good home being Amati product, quality so far seems to be okay and the build is straight forward though as ever with these things the planking does get a bit monotonous at times.

I dabble in all types of models both static & RC and have been at it for the best part of 44yrs and have a load of stuff on the go at the moment, suppose am lucky as have my own workshop to do my thing which has also a combined use of escaping er in doors too ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 03:26:33 PM
I just had a 'phone call from Gillian at Hattchette, ( rang the UK number Down Below very kindly supplied). She was glad my bits have arrived. But did say that their customer services had tried to ring me on several occasions and the 'phone was busy. odd as I gave her my mobile number which I rarely use. So she is going to e-mail them as they want to confirm my bank account detaisl which I think they have now at last got correct and why I keep getting different dispatch dates.

Martin- have you rung the UKoffice? they seem more helpful than the callcentre. If you do let us know how you get on.

One thing Ihave noticed about the Uk site build the guy departs frequently from the instrution, for instance he glued together all of the keel plates before fitting in the frames. I think it is asking for trouble unless you are very experienced or have all th parts in front of you to make sure you don't trip yourself up later.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 07, 2007, 05:22:33 PM
The call centre is just trying to cover there backs by saying your number was constantly engaged, as afterall they are engaged by Hachette to provide its customer service, what they really mean is they have not called you at all as you well know, Hachette's HO will always ensure a problem gets sorted as the last thing they want is hundreds of complaint emails or calls and its nice to see yours is being looked into...so there is a god!

I agree re departing the build as it must only go to confuse some, but then again he is covered as it does state he accepts no responsibility for anyone following his route, so whats the point then you might well ask, suppose its someone who simply wants to show off there building skills as the guy has done two or three  builds for Hachette partworks previously (Titanic & Red Barron plane), wonder why no other brand name, maybe am just a little suspicious as you never see a disparaging remark against Hachette from him so maybe there is some link to Hachette there though the site info indicates not, makes interesting reading all the same.

Modifications are fine if you know exactly what the outcome is to be, but for a novice to deviate from a basic build could well be a route they later regret, each to there own I suppose and we all have our short cuts that we have learned over time.

I cant wait to get past the planking as its doing my head in.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 07, 2007, 09:39:19 PM
One thought struck junior and I, we assume Hachette has done their calculations on weight distribution to make sure it floats with the minimmum of trimming and floats at the correct level. Now without vast amounts of experience, ( not apparent so far on that web site) or some knowledge of what is to come, them making major alterations like cutting into the keel and additng bigger and a extra motor might make life difficult later. And thats without adding gadjets like roatating turrets, one person contemplated making them fire BB's until someone pointed out how small the diameter of the barrel would have to be to be in scale.

I agree about the Hachette appeciation society, remember when the issue 4 letter fiasco appeared. he seemed to get all the infomation before anyone else including Hachettes apology. I have noticed several plugs for the German guy who sells the r/c gear, good luck to him but I wonder if Jorg (white ensign) has heard of him on the German forums. Apparently he has fallen out with some of them judging by some of his posts in the last few weeks. I have doen a few price comparissions with equivelnt gear you can get in the UK the prices work out the same if not a tad dearer. On a similar vein who is Lassek who they mention makes alternative rudders and props? never heard of him or them?

Another thought, in one of the threads a guy has posted a web address with a .pdf file of a scan of the plans from the book Anatomy of The Ship Bismarck. He has also offered to send the file to anyone interested. A breach of copyright which Martin would quite rightly throw a wobbley if anyone here done it. One their he's treated as a messia.

Daryl

Still it makes intersting reading.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 09:16:18 AM
I agree totally and here is more food for thought...........

What seems to be the case is that this Bismarck was originally intended as a static display model only and the option for an RC version was thrown in at the very last minute, this decision must have come as an after thought after issue 1 had been printed, tell you for why.....

From issue 1 to present there is not one mention of the RC option in any of the mags hence why the use of waterproof glue does not appear into the info either, each mag will be printed something like 2-3 weeks in advance of when they are due for circulation.
If you look on Hachette's web site strangely enough there is no mention of an RC version, if you wanted to promote something then surely you would sing all its spec as an RC option is a good selling point is it not?

The only mention and a brief note of the RC version was on the backing boards that came with issues 1, 2 and I think 3 as well as the additional pull out leaflet, this info came over to me as somehow being low key, very brief and looked as though it had been squeezed in as an afterthought.

A concern I do have but am not a 100% sure, have Amati ever produced an RC ship kit?

From what I can make out on there web site there stuff seems to be all build-up static display models and not RC , if this is the case then it seems we have the marriage of Amati who have never done an RC ship and Thunder Tiger (who are to supply the RC system) who have never produced an RC wooden build-up ship, so it appears we have a static display model in which Thunder Tiger are to make the RC transformation which as a result could well be a 'Hatchet Job' :o
 
Dont get me wrong, no doubt the RC installation info will follow in the mags at the appropriate time which has worked out quite nicely for them as it comes well down the line, though may be a little awkward to install if its left too late.
One thing for sure, if they do provide any weighting or trim info then it will be in relation to the RC gear they are to supply, so it is likely to be a steep learning curve for the novice that steps outside what is on offer, I say on offer as the RC system including motors & esc (though I see no cell pack or charger) costs 169 Euro in Germany, so I suppose around £115 when it lands here, it is likely to be quite basic but it works, i can already see some differences as the motors in Germany are Graupner Speed's yet the ones shown for the UK are unbranded and look cheapies, even the running gear looks very different, this has always been a problem with partworks in that quite often the items they show are not quite what you get, but they have a get-out clause stating 'goods maybe not as shown' which stinks in my view, when I buy something I expect to get what I see >:(

Cant say I have heard of Lassek but seem well known in Germany, who has actually tested this stuff on this Bismarck?...Even Germany are only at issue 40 so no Bis's complete yet to be 100% sure of the run factor, I see they are opting for different rudders to the ones supplied with the RC system, maybe the RC system on offer is naff and why all this is coming about?
It seems a situation of trying to out do each other re what is best, however it does appear that the german guy is very knowledgeable about what he is doing so all credit to him, i just hope the end result turns out ok as those who have bought into his stuff on offer will be on the warpath if it all goes belly-up.

I love the comment about BB use for the guns, this is what i was saying about a wish list than can run away with you, as for copyright, that guy could well end up with a hefty bill on his hands for copyright breach, am surprised the webmeister has not picked that one up.

It was one of the members who posted a copy the issue 4 letter and brought it to light, the webmeister seems then to have contacted Hachette for confirmation or explanation, but why would he post there offical reply and appear supportive of it?

I notice one thing that was side stepped, the query about the series being on test in the UK and how the issue 4 cancelation letter came about, Hachette in there own words say the series was on test in the UK, in that case how come there is no evidence of any Bismarck 'test' customers?....Someone is telling porkies as there appears to be no proof to substantiaite this and if there was a new ship model on the market 'am sure it would have surfaced on a forum such as this first (pardon the pun), in that case was the letter a big mistake ?.....if it was then one hell of a mistake as they have had to post appologies all over the place to prevent customers returning boxes of bits asking for a refund....suppose we will never know.

All good stuff........... 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 09:35:44 AM
I totally agree,allready after issue 8 which has most of the frames in place the weight may be a concern, we now have to have two layers of planking plus supersturcture and r/c bits. I wonder if the pre-production models was finished with the r/c gear and floats correctly.

The next 3-4 years should be interesting, juniour is ploughing ahead, apparently he is sub-contracting the sanding of the hull out..... to me. He says 'thats what dads are for'

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 10:14:48 AM
Yep I have just come to the same conclusion, this will be a first for Amati, it looks like they have not produced a R/C model before.

So far the quality of the kit is good.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 10:33:08 AM
I have just had a quick troll throught he web for r/c models for ther Bismarck at 1/200. It appears that they weigh around 10kg.

Junior and I too have the impression that the r/cc ideas was a last minute thing, but we like challengies and amati normally produce good quality kits. At least we can spread the cost over 3-4 years which has the approvial of swmbo.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 10:43:54 AM
The worry is neither have Thunder Tiger re a wooden boat build, they manufacture nitro engines, model planes, cars, helicopters, ABS & fibreglass hulled boats but no wooden boat builds and certainly no static stuff.....Oh and a I see they now have a Jacques Cousteau type Sub on the go which seems to have a high spec in that you can watch video link footage of it journey via a 2.5" screen on the hand set....very innovative and great if its clear water or in a swimming pool!

Quite often static display models do not make good RC conversion's so it make's you wonder what the outcome will be, having said that surely there must be an actual prototype in existence other than what is generated electronically as quite often these days that is all that exists until production, this does not necessarily mean all will be ok with the end result.

I agree, quality so far is good, but then again we are spoilt with this model being Amati product, just hope they keep it up and the RC variant does not let the side down with problems.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 10:50:57 AM
I have just had a quick troll throught he web for r/c models for ther Bismarck at 1/200. It appears that they weigh around 10kg.

Junior and I too have the impression that the r/cc ideas was a last minute thing, but we like challengies and amati normally produce good quality kits. At least we can spread the cost over 3-4 years which has the approvial of swmbo.

Daryl

Yeah I suppose that the attraction of partworks in that you dont have to lay out all the dosh in one go and they do seem to be addictive, most are aware they are not good value for money, though I always say if it introduces new blood into any hobby then they cant be a bad thing!
I guess not far off the end of the series you will see this kit on sale via Amati as they did this with with the Titanic they did previously for Hachette.....wonder what the pricing will be set against the £700 Hachette tag....250-300?....you never know it might be under the 200 mark!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 11:02:36 AM
Euromodels ( excellent highly recommended) are not far from where I live, they distribute Amati kits, also they use the same designer for their victory series as Amati does for some of their kits. I'll have a quiet word to see if they have an idea of when Amati intend to produce the kit commercially.

I too wonder how far Amati etc have got with their pre-production kit, weight may be a problem. One post on the buildthebismarck forum asks after the hull is planked how do we know where to bore the holes for rudder and prop tube. Hopefully a template will be supplied, but an interesting question, I assume Amati has all this worked out??

How are you getting on Martin?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 12:10:46 PM
or could it  be that it is being worked out as they go along ??? ...why said possibly a Hatchet Job!

Only me n you here it seems, cummon Martin n others what you think?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 12:16:18 PM
I thought that there were at least 5 people on this forum having a go at this kit? or are they still on the 'phone to SA.

I have found Lasseks web site.
http://www.modellbau-lassek.de/202.htm

I did a google translate but is it me but I can't find anything that is the same scale as the Hachette build? I thought they would be advertising it as this kit seems popular in Germany and the buildthebismarck.co.uk crowd are allways talking about them?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 08, 2007, 12:30:56 PM

Rang "Hachett" again this morning;

"You didn't received issue 7?  I'll order that again for you now.
I'll also order 9,10,11&12 as they should have gone out too."

I won't hold my breath....  :-\

Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 12:33:52 PM
which number did you ring Martin? have you tried the UK number Down Below kindly supplied. It worked wonders for me.

Also junior has said the supports for the frames at teh front is a bit tight to say the least!

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on June 08, 2007, 12:55:06 PM
Daryl, Lassek has kits but not from the Bismark. He has for the Bismark fittings and parts of the superstructure, scale 1:100.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on June 08, 2007, 01:12:58 PM
parts7,8,9,10&11 turned up yesterday- busy weekend thinks leaky :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 01:34:07 PM
Thanks jan for letting me know, on one of the uk buildthebismarck forums they are buying rudders and props from them for the Hachette kit. Seems like they might be in for a shock when they try to fit them and find they are twice the size they should be... or have i got it wrong. never heard of Lassek before.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 01:54:34 PM
The RC props & rudders will not be like the static display ones supplied which are to scale, I suppose you cant have it all ways and compromises have to be made.
I wonder if the brass Lassek props are balanced as three of them together might well shake its ass.....maybe a future TV ad for the Renault Megane ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 02:34:01 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I like it, there is a good chance when a lot of the keel is cut away for the third prop tube.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 03:20:35 PM
He does say there were some vibaration problems at high speed with the props running dry, but the vibes go when he had the hull in the water....a sort of dampening effect which the water seems to soak up, so its not gone just soaked up.
Not sure how he came to figure this as his hull for the Bismarck is not yet sealed nor ready for water though he may be talking of the Titanic he did previously, so he is already anticipating vibes for the Bis....the sound of the Beachboys blasting thru the decks maybe? ;D

For those going the three prop route, drilling down the end of resin stern centre prop shaft plate (supplied in 14) wont be an easy task, its such an odd shape and delicate item to get to grips with, I bet many will end up with this part in pieces in the process or the hole drilled out of square...There is no mention from him of having to do this if you want three operating props...am sure the task will daunt some, hope he has set aside many hours sat at the PC emailing support to these guys ::)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 03:31:53 PM
I notice the german guy has used his own planks and not the one's supplied, more scope for a disaster by any novice. On page 4 of the r/c conversion thread he lists th parts people can obtain from him and the prices. interesting reading. He mentions getting the props and rudders from lassek, but I can't see anything on their site for 1/200 and Jan confirms this.

One thing the uk buildthebismarck site is entertaining, I havn't laughed so much for ages. The German guy does seem to know what he is doing which is more than can be said for some of the people on their.

I wonder how many fiascos will get posted as people start hacking around with a drill trying to get a hole dead centre. time for Hachette to stock up, more likly they will not be too enthusiastic in sending out replacement parts if they know someone has deviated from their good instructions.

Daryl

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 03:37:13 PM
Just had a look at the uk bismarck site and a character called stevo has posted some wise words which is don't deviate from the Hachette instructions to install r/c gear unless you are sure you know what youa re doing and it may be wise to wait until Hachette says something than rush ahead.

I wonder how amny will head his good advice

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 03:50:14 PM
Well I suppose its personal choice what you do and how you do it afterall you can do your own thing if you think you know better.

With subscribers for parts broken by themselves the ususal method seems to be saying it arrived busted so you get a freeby :o

Well time will only tell, but what I find strange is the odd few who seemed to make a mess of pervious partworks such as the Titanic have gone to take this on and still voicing questions that are answered in the mag that is if they care to read it, so what makes this kit any different than what they have ended up with previously?.....another project heading for the bin bag in quite a few cases as a project such as this is most definately a labour of love especially when you have 8 mags in the trot packed full of chuffin planks :-X
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 04:15:52 PM
EIGHT!!!!!
junior has some fun coming his way, when I did the bounty I got fed up after a while with the little darlings and that model was smaller than this one. Oh well it keeps him quiet ;D ;D ;D

I agree about the previous people tackling this one when they have made hard work of the titanic. Junior does this as I do for the enjoyment.

Ihave read some posts which have said the quality of the planks is variable with different thicknesses and some tapered. The bundle junior had with part 10 seemed ok. wonder when we shall get anymore?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 08, 2007, 04:56:13 PM
Well when I say eight there must be around 16 in total as the hull is double skinned :(

I just do these things out og the sheer love for modelling though dont do too many partworks unless it is something very special that you cant buy off the shelf like the Red Barron plane was, I really enjoyed building that model simply for the detal it has.

Hopefully you will get more Bis issue's soon and all your problemsresolved with hopefully no more to come, or is that being too hopeful and too much to ask?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 08, 2007, 05:01:32 PM
thats exactly the reason junior and I build becouse we enjoy it, we also enjoy sailing them after. This part work caught his eye so it seemed like a good idea. He does get enormious pleasure which makes it all worthwhile.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 09, 2007, 12:23:16 AM


 Parts 5,  6  &  8 added to my build ( Click here. )  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg43321#msg43321)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on June 09, 2007, 09:29:47 AM
built up to issue 9 but even though ive used weights to hold it all down flat and clamped the frames exactly when i release all the clamps and weights it doesnt sit flat to the bench (which is flat) this is my first wooden kit -HELP :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 09, 2007, 10:09:49 AM
Cant see any reason as to why it should not sit flat on the board if it was glued & clamped to a flat level surface, were the parts badly warped before clamping? Badly warped parts can pull a structure out of shape when clamps are released, are you storing the structure in damp or humid conditions as this can also induce warping.
When you say sit flat, take it you mean the hull bottom flat on the surface and not the deck surface flat on the board, the deck has a slight bow in it from end to end which is correct so it wont sit flat on the board on that surface, hope you did not glue & clamp the deck side to the board as you now have a major problem to sort as in effect you will have incorporated the deck bow into the hull.

Daryl, have you seen the latest on the other side re the German RC installation, looks like some are already struggling, but nice to see the guy has come out and made it clear re the complexity of what he is doing, even says he thinks the kit is for 'advanced model builders' especially for those wanting to go down his route which I cant agree more.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on June 09, 2007, 10:59:31 AM
No its the hull floor that wont sit flat ,its not much about 1mm at worst it wasn't clamped to the board but it was weighted down.Damp or humid that may be it its inside the house but what with the recent deluges and subsequent heat you have got me thinking Ive followed the instructions to the letter I'm at work now ill re assess when i get home thanks anyway ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 09, 2007, 01:21:31 PM
Hi Down Below,
Yes I seen his post and agree, it is not a kit for a novice even with the good instructions, and thats before any major modifications. I hope now he helps those people who have bought kit from him and is struggling to install it. what he is doing is very good and shows he is experianced moddeller. I am still puzzeled over the Lassek connection I can't find on their web site anything which is 1/200 scale in the way of props and rudders. Perhaps it is items they make just for this series in small batches.

One disadvantage as I see from partworks apart from the total cost is you can't see far ahead to see if any problems are lurking, this I feel is important if you deviate from the instructions.


Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 09, 2007, 05:56:56 PM
Its always the case with partworks, fortunately for us the guys in Germany have been posting what comes in each mag in advance of us getting to to see them as they are are around 25 mags in front, better still they will hit any problems before us and no doubt report them accordingly, its a good them being the guinea pigs, I dont mean that nastily ;)

The other problem with partworks is they have habbit of extending series beyond the initiall number of issues stated, this can be as high as another 20 or so mags and are usually what they call upgrades or go faster bits...maybe a third motor set of parts who knows, could be a seriously long series if they do!

Leaky, with a little luck if you plank the hull with it clamped or weighted to the build surface as much as poss, the planking once fixed might just take out the hull base warp, just make sure you plank alternately on each hull side as you might end up with a banana ;)

What you think Daryl/Martin any other ideas?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on June 09, 2007, 06:05:59 PM
Daryl you will not find any ref to 200 scale on Lassek site it is a one off  and they do not lists it you have to e mail them to get then and it will coust you a small fortune you are best getting them form Markus :o 8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 09, 2007, 06:14:24 PM
My hull seems  pretty straight at the moment but I'll double check it on Monday.
I would agree that due to the nature of this beast, twists and warps can easily creep in.
So far, still impressed with the design, VERY unimpressed with the subscription service!
The Glue seems to be golding the unsanded laser cut edges quite well... I glued something that shouldn't have been!

I don't think I'll make mine RC as it will mean hacking the hull around something rotten which may effect something later on that I don't know about yet. I may put in two small shafts and motors once the planking is on. Does anyone know if the unaltered build has hatches or a removeable top?

Can you post the link to the Germain site/page where he converting to RC please.

Also,  are the Germain issues slightly out from ours?

Martin.... But what do I know?  ::)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on June 09, 2007, 09:42:53 PM
This is the german site of the hachette bismark: http://www.die-bismarck-bauen.de/bestellen.htm

Available as rc or static kit, Amati has developed the bismark.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 09, 2007, 10:04:31 PM
The site for the forum with the German guy adding in three motors has some very nice pictures which may help witht he motors. It also has previews by clicking on another link of the issues the germans had. From what I can gather Hachette has used the same pictures and translated the german into English. After all this rabbeting its
 www.buildthebismarck.co.uk

There is a .com site which does contain some info but the .co.uk has the more..... let us say radical methods ;D ;D ;D

As for a warped hull yes I would clamp it straight and dampen the wood a little but not drown it. When it dries out it may get better, but the moisture in the glue providing it is securly clamped should help straighten it. The extention on the stern keel was slightly twisted but Sam managed to streighten it out when he added the parts from issue 9 &10. It has been on a shelf since yesterday afternoon when he came home from school and it hasn't twisted so I think we have got away with it but the planking puts a lot of strain on the hull so it has to be done evenly and carefully.

As for hacking the stern around for three motors Sam has decided to install two and go with the instructions from hachette, but has Down below rightly says the Germans are a bit ahead of us so any problems should be flagged up on the .co.uk site. I don't think we will get the German guy/ lassek stuff but will go with either Hachette or our own stuff. two motors should be enough. All up weight is still a concern and we look with interest when some of these mods take to the water.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on June 10, 2007, 07:25:21 AM
Thanks for the advice i bought it to work this morning and measured it in our inspection dept and scanned all the results in and produced a 3d image and processed the sizes and found it is flat and true to about 0.1mm then i did the same with a big steel rule to make sure isn't technology wonderful.BUT i found my error i build on two benches 90degrees to each other i have two battalions of wargames figures(my other hobby)on my main bench and found after checking my secondary bench has a very slight warp so in the words of my hero DOH!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 10, 2007, 08:12:08 AM
Glad its fixed. enjoy the build. thats the best part of going to work getting all the 'homework' done. ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 09:10:47 AM
My hull seems  pretty straight at the moment but I'll double check it on Monday.
I would agree that due to the nature of this beast, twists and warps can easily creep in.
So far, still impressed with the design, VERY unimpressed with the subscription service!
The Glue seems to be golding the unsanded laser cut edges quite well... I glued something that shouldn't have been!

I don't think I'll make mine RC as it will mean hacking the hull around something rotten which may effect something later on that I don't know about yet. I may put in two small shafts and motors once the planking is on. Does anyone know if the unaltered build has hatches or a removeable top?

Can you post the link to the Germain site/page where he converting to RC please.

Also,  are the Germain issues slightly out from ours?

Martin.... But what do I know?  ::)



The conversion being posted by the German guy does not replicate what is to come in the mag series, also I dont think many are aware that the RC system, motors, esc etc are an 'extra' from Hachette costing around £115.

Though the German guys set-up seems well thought out its not an easy installation for the novice to take on with a lot that could go very wrong, like you say, hacking around the Hull when you dont know what is in the mind on Amati could be a dangerous move. also as mentioned preiously balance, weight & control could also be an issue if you step outside what is being supplied, am not saying dont convert but for those wanting to go this route just be mindful of the many things that will need to be overcome to get it right.

This series was launched in Germany some 25 weeks before the UK and so they are approx 25 weeks in front of the UK build being at around issue 40.

The build does incorporate a removable bridge section regardless of going the static or RC route, the frame parts for this are supplied from issue 1 thru to 10 (a photo of this frame can be clearly seen at the botom of page 10 within issue 5), just remember not to glue the parts that make up this frame to the Hull framework, otherwise you wont then have a removable section for access to the RC gear, (though this will not matter if you are just building the static version, though it will if you wish to later convert it to RC).

Leaky, glad to see all is well and a sigh of relief no doubt.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 01:46:50 PM
Couple of pictures posted on buildthebismarck.co.uk of the German guy's drilling of the centre shaft. Nice drilling job but one that could easily go wrong if the hole is not dead centre. I noticed someone on that forum has decided to drill out the keel after he has glued it to the hull and put the frames on. He drilled from both ends and the bit in the middle which he couln't reach he burnt out with a hot nail!!! Brave man on a wooden hull.

I read that on the same forum to help lining up in the resin part someone drilled out a succsession of bigger holes to form a 'cone', I assume the idea is to allow movement of the shaft when aligning it up with the motor.Not the best idea methinks, mor scope for messing up the resin part and water to enter.

More convinced than ever to go with Amati/Hachette. I don't think it would need 3 motors unles someone wants to start a fast electric Bismarck racing series  ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 02:16:14 PM
Think your spot on there Daryl, some of the mods seem extreme or even barbaric to say the least :o

A thought to ponder....No doubt Amati, Hachette & Thunder Tiger will have considered a three motor design for this model and for some reason settled on a twin motor set-up, in that case one might wonder as to why ???

Surely it's not down to the insignificant cost of a 3rd motor setup for a project that already tiips the scales in ££'s before you consider any RC installation ;)

Have you seent these postings...

"Adding 45 degree bits of scrap ply to keep the frames at 90 degrees  which also adds strength", sounds fair enough but there already appears to be a weight issue and adding wood wont help especially where its not needed ;)

"A three motor Bis will outpace the 20 euro toy boats", a little lost for words on that one but it will be great to see a Bismarck hydroplane ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 02:29:47 PM
I missed that post but I will search for it.

One thought occured with all the hacking, drilling and burning going on the back end won't be as strong as Amati intended unless some serious re-inforcing is done. With the torque of the servo, the stern will be want to twist in the same direction when the rudders move. Weakening the keel without reinforcment would result in twisting or at worst a crack with the stern falling off. Just a thought which is probibly wide of the mark.

I agree Amati et al must have had good resons to abandon the third motor, I doupt I would get a reply but I am tempted to e-mail them and sound out their thoughts.
 
Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 02:35:04 PM
Moreso, maybe ask if they recommend a third motor set-up, my guess is they will not recommend as they will then be liable for any comeback, so if they dont recommend that might suggest its a big no no.

Just a thought, any technical query should be directed to Amati as Hachette are only the publisher and Jacklins are a only a call centre.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 02:43:04 PM
I have jsut sent a e-mail to Amati asking if they considered a third motor if it was dissmissed then could they give em the reson why. I also added that it is not ment as a criticism in any way nor am I suggesting they should endorse departing from the instructions, I was jsut curious.

I wonder if I will get a reply.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 02:47:43 PM
 ;D ;D  I have just done the very same with some probing questions, lets see if we get the same reply, at least then it will be from the horse's mouth so to speak, I dont think I have read anywhere that this direct question has been asked of Amati.

Hope one or both of us get's a response, probably in broken Italian ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 03:40:13 PM
Yipee i got a reply, here it is.

Hallo Daryl,

thank You for your message.

The reasons why Hachette decided to fit two motors only (instead of  three) are three:

1- The motor set was much more expensive and also the Radio control  set and electronic speed control
2- The building of the hull was completely different and the back of  the model was to much difficult to realize for a lot of unexperienced  people who is building the model.
3 - Running the model was also much more difficult.

By our side we think the model (with three props anyway) will  reproduce very well the real battleship. As soon as the model is into  the water (and props are underwater) noboty realize if the central  prop is turning or not.

Thank you for your kind opinion.

Best regards

AMATI SpA



This seems to come to the same conclusions as most of us have reached, the kit is not for the complete novice. I got a reply much quicker than i thought I would. Many thanks went winging its way to Amati.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 03:53:24 PM
And ditto here, exactly the same reply word for word ;D the good thing is Amati seem to be well on the ball :)

So there you have it, make your own minds up, partly a cost issue but it seems mainly that if your a novice it might well be an idea to keep well clear of installing three operating props and that comes from the horse mouth ;)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 04:06:31 PM
Ummm ??? ??? I think they have been asked this question many times before and have composed a standard reply. Still nice to get the answer from the horses mouth. Differs from Hachetts blurb which says it is within the capabilities of anyone. Then again most likley is if you follow their instructions carefully which a lot of people appear not to be doing.

On the 'other side' a few posts have been appearing which says one of the frames 43a in some issues are to small. well my son (junior AKA Sam) has had a look and he says nope looks ok when a plank is put against it, the reported gap in some issues don't appear. Clumsy building, poor quality standards who knows but ours is ok.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 04:16:50 PM
Yeah mine is ok too.

I noticed a few so called problems had appeared on the german sites in that some found they had a problem and some had not, if it was a problem then surely it would surface across the board, it does lead one to think it is down to the individual build rather than poor manufacture or design.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 11, 2007, 04:35:25 PM


I think the main reason for recommending only two shafts is the whole integral strength of the stern is built up on the central keel piece. To modify the build as is, you would need to drill / cut through the whole of this lot and then reinforce it to regain the structural integrity. The whole project would require a redesign back on the drawing board ( screen! ) to cater for a center shaft.
If I do go the RC route, I'm not decided yet, I'm think of fitting 2 x 550's with a free wheeling center propeller.

Has anyone seen the propeller that come with the magazine yet?

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem//Bismarck/PICT0451.jpg)


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 04:38:25 PM
I have just noticed on the relativly senseible but quiet buildthebismarck.com forum that several people are using Ronseal woodfiller which as some of the posts say is watersoluble. Odd, if you use waterproof glue intending to sail the model then I would have thought it prudent to use waterproof filler, better be safe than sorry. Sometimes cost cutting can go disastriously wrong, the firm I work for are masters at that!

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 04:48:04 PM
I don't think they have been issued in germany yet, but the .co.uk bunch seem to have jumped to the conclusion they wont work? I am not convinced i'll wait and see what turns up.


Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 04:55:09 PM
Martin, the props that come with the Hachette RC pack appear to be standard black nylon types though for the static version I they are brass, a lot in Germany seem to be dismissing the pack as being rubbish as Daryl says.

Daryl, I dont think it is a case of cost custting but its more a case of dont realise the implications as is the case with those building the RC version using standard PVA glue ;)


Better still here is a link to the Hachette RC set to be offered at a later date

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/vorzugsangebot.htm

The radio system comes from Thunder Tiger, what i dont see is a cell pack & charger so presume they are in addition to the cost of this RC pack but unsure if they are also to make these available me thinks not :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on June 11, 2007, 06:29:39 PM
Looking at Martin's pic of the stern structure. I'd say that if anyone really wanted to fit a third shaft to their Bismarck, it would all have to be done right at the beginning, before any formers etc were glued to the keel, any other way is going to weaken the structure too much, or add a lot of weight. The best way would be to cut a slot in the keel, epoxy it back together with the shaft in place, and then fit full length ply doublers to make everything solid. After that of course, all the formers would have to be trimmed to fit over the added thickness. Isn't solving a problem of this kind, always dead easy with hindsight? Once things have got to the stage of Martin's model, I'd say that hacking everything about to fit a central shaft would be a very bad idea. I'll stick to scratch building though, much easier than trying to work out was was in the mind of whoever designed whatever kit you're trying to put together. Scratch builders make mistakes of course, but at least they're our mistakes, not those of some kit designer in another country.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 11, 2007, 06:49:08 PM


OK, going off at a bit of a tanget here ( I may have to start ab new topic ), but "why oh why are they using GEARBOXES on an electric boat!"  >:(

I hate the things, noisy, power sapping, clunky things! I understand the need for slow reverloutions or high torue output but as I understand it motor timings, armature windings and motor configuration can be arrange to suit almost any aplication - so why gearboxes?!?!  :-\ Surley for a given voltage and known propeller a suitable motor can be made. Graupner, Robbe and all the others have hundreds of diffrent motors in their catalouges so surely they get them made to their own specification.

Rant over, you can start correction me now.....


Lights off...... lie down........ "Happy place, happy place..........."
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 11, 2007, 07:06:36 PM
Anmo - Could not have put it better myself and is what we are trying to convey, the addition of a thrid motor changes an awful lot.
What the German guys failed to say from the outset is if you wish to go the three motor route then it should be incorporated from the start of the build and not as an afterthought, or if your a novice to building such models especially that incorporate RC then the safest bet is to stick with the two motor set-up being offered via Hachette, as no doubt it is a tried & tested installation that works.

I agree scratch builders do make mistakes and like you say they are there own miistakes not those of some designer in a far off land or for that matter modification components being offered in that the end result has yet to be put to the test ;)

Martin - Basically its a cheap cheap route to what they need to achieve, its quite comon place for partwork components to be of an old design format or poor quality, simple reason being they are very cheap to manufacture and have a high profit value, it is what partworks are all about, getting a product out there for little as possible cost but for the highest perceived value, you get a load of parts it looks like you get a lot for your money, you get two items and it looks poor value for money :o

Yes your right the gear format could have so much better better electronically done but that was never going to happen with what is on offer hence why the RC pack on offer is about as basic as it gets, however nothing stopping you adding what components suits you as long as you have some idea of what you are upagainst.

I digress, but can remember a couple or three years ago Deagostini did an RC car, it had a mechanical speed controller which was naff and went out with the ark donkeys years ago, it had loads of burn-out problems and very inefficient, a simple esc swop gave that model the shot in the arm it needed ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 11, 2007, 11:21:44 PM
Intersting picture, My thoughts are and the first one has been brought up on the uk build site is.

1/ the two pictures look of a different boat, in the bottom one there is no resin part, at what point does that turn up in relation the r/c gear. also the planking is different between the two hulls.

2/the rudders look backwards they would hit the keel skeg, but this could be 'just for  photos'.

3/ what is the small prop shaft for?

looks like amati/hachette has taken the cheep, quick and easy option. junor and I will wait and see what the UK bunch says. We may go are own way and install our choice of r/c gear, (2 shafts).

I agree about the gearboxes, strange route they took there. I wonder what battery apck they have in mind or even gell chell.

I have just had a look at one of the German site which shows the instruction pages, it appears the resin part arrives in issue 15 and it is stuck to the hull in issue 35.  Does anyone know when the r/c gear is mentioned and when to install it. It must be proir to issue 35 as after then, hard luck the resin part is stuck on. With Hachettes total lack of control over the distribution this might mean people who buy their R/C gear waiting for a while and then playing catch up. Or glueing parts on then trying to remove them to put the r/c stuff in. The alteration to the keel as shown in the second picture is not mentioned at all up to part 40. More to puzzle over until the bits arrive. I assume the instructions to install the r/c gear is not included in the mag but sent with the parts. With the alterations shown in the bottom picture and the previews on the German site there are several instancies where the instructions differ from the bottom picture showing the Amati/Hachette/ Tunder tiger gear.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 12, 2007, 07:22:14 AM
Lets assemble all the current Bismarck Builds sites in one place:

British Site: http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/index.html
British Site(?): http://www.buildthebismarck.com/

German Modeller: http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_aktuell.htm
German Modeller: http://bismarck.oehm.net/index.php?ta=conhtml&obj=index&st0=z&stnr=0&sp=2&titel=Startseite
German modeler: http://trakan.tr.funpic.de/ - http://trakan.tr.funpic.de/Bismarck/BSindex.html
German Modeller: http://www.projekt-bismarck.de/index2.php
German Modeler: http://www.baue-die-bismarck.de/viewpage.php?page_id=1
German Modeler: http://www.9teuflottille.de/index2.html

Hachett UK - - - - -  http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/product.php?proID=1172137511
Hachett  Germany - http://www.die-bismarck-bauen.de/

General Bismarck information site: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/

Can someone send me any links to builds with motors included.....

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 08:59:55 AM
Excellent list lots of information to pour over, pity I can't read German. Many thansk martin for compiling this list.


Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 09:02:33 AM
Martin -The only build with motors I have seen so far is the one on the buildthebismarck.co.uk site from the german guy, though its not a on line build but more the promotion of his three motor set-up with a few photos & detail posted of what he has achieved, good idea for a compilation list ;)

Daryl -

The small prop shaft i suspect is to hang the centre non working prop on.

Germany are at issue 40 and cant see any mention of any RC installation so far in there previews.

Battery/cell pack, so far no mention what so ever of the batt pack required or and a charger for that matter (if you dont already have one), my guess is that this will be an item you have to source for yourselves as surely it should have come with there RC pack or as another additional item to buy, I have just emailed Amati the direct question on this so watch this space.

The RC gear from hachette will be on a pay for it in advance basis at some pont along the way, if you compare the 169 Euro being asked in Germany that means it will be around the £115 mark in the UK, not sure if it is good value for a very basic set-up.

Yes the German drive train does seem to differ slighlty from what has been pictured in the UK pull-out part that came with issue 1, Germany seem to have Graupner Speed motors yet the UK ones seem unbranded, not sure about the props, rudders, gears, esc & radio set as the photo only shows the prop shafts & motors, my guess is that the radio set will definately be the Thunder Tiger one shown in Germany as this is what Hachette have been supplying for all there RC product of late, they seem to have some tie-up with Thunder Tiger on RC product.

Possibly your right about the RC installation detail being supplied with the RC pack, it does say on the pull-out leaflet 'we will show you how to modify your ship for the RC version', this suggests it is an afterthought and as such will be installed very late on in the series :o

Recommend we all keep a very close eye on what is being supplied against photos shown, partworks have a habbit of supplying inferior version's of components shown at the outset, not sure what we can do about it as they do have a get-out clause allowing them to do this ???

Its turning out to be a right can of worms ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 09:29:28 AM
A can of worms is right, I too have looked at the german preview site, can't read the lingo but I thought they would have mentioned in the instructions where to depart from the mag build and go onto the r/c instalation. But as you said this could be later and much butchery could follow. The two pictures I have seen from Germany don't make sense. The bottom one has planking different from the top and no resin part, I assume something will be mentioned in the mag before issue 35 when they say to attach it to the hull. After that point it will be difficult to remove.

Anyone know at what issue the Germans were offered the r/c gear? I take it it was a leaflet included in the mag and not part of the mag?


Daryl


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 09:48:55 AM
Not quite sure when the RC gear was offered in Germany, the odd thing is, so far I have seen any posting's of the offered RC gear having been installed.
So maybe it is on offer but as yet has not been despatched to those who have orderd it, in that case it must arrive after issue 40 as that is where they are at with there build right now, maybe 'Hatchet Job' is the right term ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 10:07:52 AM
I'll send an e-mail to Amati, then look for my chainsaw!

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 10:36:52 AM
Have just emailed Isabelle to ask the questions of the battery pack/charger & when the RC set is to be offered.

Chainsaw ;D There as some out there who might just consider that option ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 10:42:19 AM
just got this interesting reply back from Amati when I asked them approximetly what issue do we install the shafts and R/C gear.

Dear Daryl,

thank you for your message.

We'll deliver goods concerning wooden parts where to fit motors,  battery and servos at the endo of August.

Please stay in touch with Hachette service and they will inform you  about correct date and shafts details.

Best regards

AMATI SpA


Contact Hachette ??? ??? ??? since when did they have a clue as to what is going on. Looks like its around issue 20 give or take 5 or 6 issues?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 11:01:18 AM
Are they specific about this being for the UK or could it be Germany they are talking of?

Am at 16 so will look out for it in the coming mags

No reply to my email to them yet :(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 11:24:42 AM
Good question, I have no idea, assuming the worst if it is Germany then they would be around issue 50-55, they seem to pass the buck to Hachette.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 12:17:24 PM
Hachette will always call the shots as to when items are despatched or made available for purchase and sometimes there methods does not always tie up with when you would normally need them re a build.

Generally where possible they will leave expensive components until as late as poss in the series, this is so that by then they will have a better idea as to how many are likely to see the series thru to its end, and so not tie up money in over ordering components, am told non of what they order from source is on a sale or return basis so they have to use the parts on somewhere or they usually being destroyed, this is why they move parts around the world to a country taking the relevant mag, so it is likely that some of the mag parts we are getting may well be left overs from Germany as it is only the magazine language text that changes.

I know we slate Jacklins but my view is that Hachette are directly responsible as Jacklins are only the fulfilment house and do what Hachette say, if Jacklins are not allocated enough mags to send out then the knock on effect is delays to the customer, they are mainly responsible for the set up of subscriptions and any associated problems or damages, though even this seems to be hard work for them >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 01:47:52 PM
no reply so far to my e-mail from Amati asking for clarification on August if they are talking about Germany or the UK.

I have just read on the buildthebismarck.com forum that one of their members received a e-mail from Hachette on the 29th May saying that from issue 23 there will be instructions in the step by step and an offer on the r/c option. This will be confirmed at a later date. Looking on the German preview sites I'll be intersted to see where their issue 23 etc mentions anything about an R/C option?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 02:25:39 PM
No response here either from Amati or Hachette re the battery pack/charger & RC query.

So issue 23 for the RC set offer, not long to go then and will be interesting to see what exactly you get for your hard earned dosh and if it is value for money, though I reckon if you order it you wont be seeing it for quite a while as so far they dont know how many are to go fo it and no doubt there will be a lead time from the supplier.

Hmm just seen that posting re the RC set, seems a bit jumbled to me, in once sense it says from issue 23 you can choose for your model to be RC or static then it goes on to say for those who choose to go RC there will be an offer which will be confirmed later on......So whats that mean then can we you order it at 23 or not ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tigertiger on June 12, 2007, 02:31:05 PM
No response here either from Amati or Hachette re the battery pack/charger & RC query.

So issue 23 for the RC set offer, ... no doubt there will be a lead time from the supplier.

Issue 23 out of 100

Maybe lead time won't be such a problem  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 02:35:26 PM
But if you read my last paragraph its not clear if you can order the RC pack at 23 or it is a future offer to come, not only that surely the later you receive the RC pack the harder it gets to install, yeah you have 140 issues to install RC gear if you put it that way ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 02:41:33 PM
I too thought Hachettes reply was as clear as mud! I would prefer to mount the shafts as early as possible. Since I can't read German I don't know what they received with their issue 23, the answers could lie in one of the postings on a German forum but until someone who understands the language trolls through them its guess work.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 03:07:10 PM
Well looking at the German preview for issue 23 the parts supplied are screws to hold the deck plates down. more planking and a stern resin nose cap.
No mention or photos of anything that relates to RC gear, so maybe it is simply a separate leaflet that comes in 23 that allows you to order the RC gear, though reading Hachette's reply re this on the .com site is like you say as clear as mud :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 12, 2007, 03:35:16 PM
Just looked again at the posting on the .com site, it mentions that from issue 23 the step-by-step instructions will give the oppertunity to make it static or r/c?

I have had a look on a few of the German sites and the pictures don't give any clue as to contol options, I don't know if the text does.

Pity they don't make themselves a bit more clearer, they do ask people to contact them, I hope they reply.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 12, 2007, 04:04:40 PM
The build step-by steps for mag 23 certainly do not appear to have any info re RC installation.

Have seen a  posting  saying that in Germany a battery & charger are supplied with the RC pack though the RC packs were due to arrive last Autumn and they are still waiting, now where have I heard that before ::)

Stupid us, if we had looked just below the transmitter photo on the German offer sheet which says 'Das Akku-set (6v 4.5ah) mit Ladergerat'....presumably translates to 6v 4.5ah battery & charger ;D

So for 169 euro (approx £115) you get the 2-channel 40Mhz am transmitter & receiver, 1 servo, AA battery box, 2 motors, 3  propellers, 2.5 propeller shafts, 2 sets of 2:1 gear trains, ESC,  2 rudders,  2 capacitors, 2 motor mounting plates and the 6v battery pack & charger, the offer comes at around issue 20 or so which seems to tie in with it actually being issue 23 ;)

If the delay of receipt is anything like in Germany then you might see the pack for the winter which would be at around issue 50 as Germany are already at issue 40 and have still not received it :o
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 08:02:18 AM
Have you seen that bit about the German guy with the 3 motor option broke three of the stern resin centre prop shaft forms whilst trying to drill them out for his conversion, god knows how many the inexperienced modellers will go through to get it right ::)

I think to some extent a number of the inexperienced having seen the German guys modified build are jumping straight into it not realising the easier option from Hachette, or maybe there is some assumption of this is the way to go if you want the RC vesion.
The site is now starting to be flooded wth every query in the book re the modified build, this seems to detract from what the site was set up to be, which I might add is way behind in the build against what the curent issue number is.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 09:39:40 AM
I'll go along with with that, I to noticed he had to have several attempts to get it right. The people with a simple pillar dril or hand drill have a very difficult job, an engineering collegue of mine said it is tricky even with a proper engineering shop to do it in.

I too have noticed the trend to jump ahead and get the bits for the three motor set up,I think a lot of people are going to struggle and wreak the hull. This conversion is not for the faint hearted. I have noticed most of the questions are from people who have not tried to do anything like this before and are gettinginto difficult by going off at a tangent with modifications way beyond their capabilities. The German guy does tend to encourage people to buy the stuff he sells, this can lead the novice into territory they havn't the experience to get out of. We think the instructions are pretty good if you follow them.

Some of the questions are entertaining to say the least. But everyone has to start somewhere, help is usually a click of the keyboard away. Difficult bit is deciding which bit of advice is the best one to take.

Haviing run down anyone who wants to depart from Hachette R/C instructions Sam has decided to leave as long as he can his options open by marking as he planks the position of the prop tubes in relation to the slots in the frames. We assume Hachette has a cunning plan to do this at the appropriate time if not we have.

Interesting the way the build is not going on the .co.uk site, looking at what he has done before he has departed from the instructions more than once. I thought the object of the site ( buildthe bismarck.co.uk) was a step-by-step guide to building the bismarck, this guy is way behind on the issues and looks like he has not done anything for some time. I have not checked on his Titanic site to see how that went to guage what he has doen before.

There seem to be a mass exidos to jump ahead and spend £150 ish on r/c gear  way before anyone has had the chance to see what Hachette offers. For the novice theirs may be the best option but as with most things there is more than one way to do it. This point has escaped the attention of quite a lot of builders.

there now off soap box and about to take cover ;D ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 10:08:28 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D @Daryl

All valid points and a lot to consider for the novice, yeah its great to have an all singing & dancing version, but unless you are very confident and have some experience of what you are getting into then the safest route is to follow the mag build, afterall the mag build advice is supplied by Amati who the kit originates from ::)

I'am surprised the webmeister on the .co.uk site has not stepped in to switch the drift back to his own build but right now he seems to be steering clear of what is going on, am sure it will confuse many with both builds on the go or in actual fact there will be three builds on the go, Static, Hachette RC & German RC.
It would benefit that site to have a separate page where the German guy can answer all his queries and slate the Hachette RC pack to his content, wonder who will pick up the fallout when things start to go wrong?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 10:58:39 AM
Interesting to what constitutes an experienced modeller, I find it is one hobby where you are allways learning and can never have all the answers. The German guy has built three so far according to him, I don't know if any of these are similar the the one he is doing. He is very good and his skill shows in the pictures he has posted, but who knows if he has gone down the right route until the hull is afloat.

There doesn't seem to be much moderation going on with the postings on their forum, one guy has openly advertised scaned copies of the plans in the anatomy of the ship book. Umm bit naughty that. The webmaster has you say is keeping his head down, I wonder why. I did read a post by the German guy which says he got fed up posting on the German web sites due to the flak he was getting, ( no pun or insult intended). I wonder why as with everything there are two sides to the story. he has a good build but I wonder how long his help will streach out to once thing start going pear shap with novices trying to copy what he has done and making a mess of it.

Looking at the list of r/c gear it does not seem to bad value for money, depends on the quality and the appearence once it is installed. I still think it is a bit rash to jump headlong and order loads of r/c gear at around £150 from this guy just yet. I also noticed he quickly put a post up saying he has had a few price increases in his supply of parts and postage increases. The easiest solution but not nessessarily the best is to follow Hachette... for now that is.

We are keeping our options open by marking the position of the tubes where they enter the hull, so later we can fit Hacette, our own or whatever tubes is apropreate.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 11:38:28 AM
I agree, keeping your options open seems the best way forward on this project.

The german guy also sells on ebay germany, so its likley he is out to make a nice little earner if he can attract enough to buy into his goodies hence why he keeps pushing it.
I feel it is a little tactless though for him to to keep branding the available Hachette gear as being rubbish, many will go that route regardless either because they feel comfotable with it, it suits there experience or its what funds will allow, so does that mean there model is rubbish too for have the Hachette RC pack?

Not sure if he has considered this, there is a potential here for some of those who have bought into his system to blame him if things dont work out too well re the installation or the end result floats or goes like a brick :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 11:59:47 AM
I forgot he mentioned he sold on ebay, that brings a few points to ponder.

I wonder what Amati/Hacette thinks of him running down their products. This is a double edged sword, if customers make a mess of Part D for instance, then they make money by selling replacements, ( you can't keep saying its broken in transit). But if they make a total mess of the whole hull and give up on the series by going down the route suggested by our German friend then they loose sales.

There are lots of complaints about Jacklins lack of service which I beleive is being looked into by Hachette, but when an individual who looks like he is on a nice little earner by denouncing the Hachette r/c gear and promoting his own might ruffle a few feathers amoungst the Amati/ Hachette sales team. they are not going to maximise their profits by independant suppliers rubbishing their products.

Who is going to sort out the ptoblems which may arise as a direct or indirect consiquence of altering the build plan supplied in the magazine. How far will the German guy go to help before he decides that's it he has made his money and will quietly withdrawfrom the forum. also he is getting cheep advertising direct streight to his potential customer base via buildthebismarck.co.uk. He also does not have the fees charged by ebay nor the cost of setting up and running a web site of his own. Is it me or is this been all carefully thought out ???

Amati/Hachette has invested time and money in designing and sourcing the r/c gear, they might think this guy is only a minor irritation but if his r/c gear takes off then at what point will they have a quiet or not so quiet word to try and slow down or stop his sales drive.

The webmaster of buildthebismarck has been quiet for a while I wonder why, has anyone else noticed that he departs frequently from the magazine build instructions. i thought the whole point of the web site is to help people build it not confuse as seems the case.

Haveing said all that Martin how are you getting on?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 12:02:42 PM
just noticed a few posts asking is this the correct way to butcher the keel for the third shaft on build.co.uk. does not bode well if people are asking allready if they have got it right.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 01:27:26 PM
A lot to go at there..

He will only loose sales from those he does not manage to convert as he already has made his money out of those those who get it wrong or right.
I cant say I have looked too closely at his prices, having said that he only needs a small fraction of those building the RC version to jump in with his set-up to be heading out of "Nelson Mandella Tower's" ;D

Jacklins will never change no matter what Hachette tell you, its the nature of there business and do you really think they give an hoot about someone else customers, they are judged on answering calls and lots of them so the more problems the better as calls to there premium rate number must make them a packet, so a conspiracy theory here, do they actually create problems to guarantee callers?

The german guy is certainly not hiding the fact that he is there to push his set-up and supply the components...just one simple thought on that one, he could well be a model shop proprietor discreetly selling his wares :o

I cant see Hachette getting involved, afterall what there customers do re there models is the customers concern, should problem's be brought to Hachette's door that can be identified as to having nothing to do with the mag build then Hachette will simply walk away as would any manufacturer.

Maybe the the webmaster of that site is at a loss for what to do for best :'( 

Maybe Martin is looking on in disbelief ;D 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 02:04:23 PM
Good point about the discreet modelshop, I have just read that he sells planking sets. the following I got from his last posted price list

two drive set 60 Euro
three drive set 90 Euro
this seems to include motors( looks like Graupner) brackets U/V joints, shafts and props

Add to this as extras if required

30A esc at 30 Euro
40A at 40 Euro
80A at 50 Euro they look like Mtroniks

condensers at 5 euro

v-mixer at 30 Euro
Y cable at 15 Euro
rudder levers at 15 Euro interesting discription there.
Lassek rudders at 20 euro
Lassek props at 50 Euro
servo mounting set and steel wire to attach to rudders 10 euro
9000mah battery at 12 euro per cell
3 channel Tx with RX  60 Euro
2 channel Tx and Rx 50 Euro

More stuff than my not so local model shop, can add up to quite a bill, he don't mention how much the planking set is and what would the advantage be in using his? the planks we have so far look ok.

He says the prices include postage.

Then we get Hachettes Fred Flintstone gear we havn't seen advertised in the UK.

He seems to denounce the props supplied with the kit, why? they havn't turned up in Germany yet, they might work, who knows.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 02:38:05 PM
I think his planks will be the full length version, approx twice the length of the mag supplied ones rather than the cut down version being supplied.
It means you can plank over a wide span with less butt joints, most planked wooden boat kits supply the longer length rather than the short ones we are being supplied, suppose its a packaging/breakage issue for Hachette as in effect they would be twice as long as the mags, where poss they will try to supply components that are no larger than the mag size.

Blimey his list does add up, if you went the full monty on his set-up you could be looking at not far off £300... boy there are going to be some disappointed people out there who buy into it and then cant pull it off :'(

Think his denouncement of the Hachette props is from looking at the offer leaflet, they seem like basic black nylon basic props to me, if he is comparing these with the brass Lassek ones then we are talking chalk n cheese so you cant compare like for like, at the end of the day I suppose Hachette are supplying what works as there is no mention of the RC pack being the dogs b*****ks  ;D

 ;D @ Fred Flintstone....he the man 8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 03:37:40 PM
speaking of props no mention of them yet in  the German previews, I wonder if they are brass and usable. I suspect they are one of the last items supplied. Its the props for the static kit I am thinking of.

I wonder when the German round of the Fast Electric Bismarck racing series will start

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 03:45:34 PM
For the static display model the props are brass though these are not suitable for the RC version ;)

If you look at the RC offer sheet photos of the stern there is a hell of a compromise to make for the RC vesion and it simply does not look pleasing tom the eye, I plan to try and replicate it as near as poss without detracting from what the RC bits are ment to do, cant have it all ways I suppose....well thats the theory

If you want a laugh have a read of the small print at the bottom of the home page oo the .co.uk site....love the discalimer bit about 'I might make mistakes' and 'the way I'am bulding it may not necessarily be the best way'....so whats the point then of a build forum that dont tie up what it says in the mag ??? confusion all the way me thinks
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 04:19:24 PM
Mine exactly I allways try to replicate the look of the real thing whilst making the ship work. The picture I have seen of the Hachette r/c bits do look out of place. I noticed that the german guy had a bit of ossillation in his set up, his solution was to put it in water so the h20 could dampen it. Out of sight out of mind I suppose. looks like I'll get some props from G. Sitek, 25mm is close to 23.5mm which is the scale diameter, or the Prop Shop.

I notice our german collegue has had a go at the Titanic I wonder how he got on with that. I saw a guy building one at the Weymouth show looked a nice kit. I also spotted the webmaster of the .co.uk site didn't finish his Titanic, pity I looked at his build which seemed a good job he was doing.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 04:52:03 PM
Am curious now, have just checked out the .co.uk site webmaster's build for Hachette's Titanic, as you say its not finished and stopped at 92 of 100, fair enough I thought until coming across the below posting which you then find he is already on with the build of another ship and running a build forum for it...Build the Bismarck!

A note on the site as follows:

"Due to personal circumstances I have had to put a hold the building of the Titanic. I'am unsure when I will be able to re-start building this model. I will maintain this site for the forseeable future, and will complete the model when possible. I hope this does not cause any body too much disappointment"

Like you say his build looks good but the plot thickens if you think carefully about it....

The posting re the Titanic being put on hold must have been posted around the time of the Bismarck UK launch as he also notes the exact date of its launch, so you might well ask how did he know the exact date if there is no link between him & Hachette?..... am sure that Hachette closely guards the launch date of all its projects for obvious reasons.

Check the posting detail for yourself http://buildthetitanic.co.uk/home.htm

His other Hachette project The Red Barron plane appears to have been completed, there is also some link to the build for Del Prado's Victory ship and he also seems to be building a working steam loco model, busy guy me thinks or is he some kind of model consultant I wonder?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 04:59:05 PM
ummm interesting, this takes up a time, I wonder what he is up to. Lots of projects on the go and information ahead of everyone else, I am thinking if the issue 4 letter as he seemed to have information the rest of the Uk didn't at that time or more accurate.

I think I also found referances to the German guy on one of the Titanic sites. Small world isnt it??

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 13, 2007, 05:29:24 PM
I bet the german guy near papped himself when the issue 4 letter surfaced ;D ;D

Jeez he is advising on the mag build now, dont these guys read the mag and whats happened to the webmaster who is supposed to be doing the on line build?....that web site is a mess, shame as it started off well!

Am undecided as to what really is behind 'the front' to the on line build, maybe something maybe nothing but one thing does seem aparent its starting to look very suspicious :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 13, 2007, 09:18:04 PM
I agree totally, I have just read with interest, OK laughter, his advice, it seems apparent that the people who are asking the questions didn't read the mag fully. My son does and then passes it to me so I can read the historical stuff. I'll follow the site as the chaos develops, no moderation whatsoever. Its turning into a free advert for German supplied r/c gear, still cheep advertising, but what happens when things go pear shape might turn out interesting.

As you say the online build has come to a halt, if you compaire this site with the .com site it is like chalk and cheese. the .com is relativly quiet with questions that are relativly sensible. I agree the site started off well but has turned into how to install three motors and ignore the instructions.


Might be intersting how this develops, the German guy said in one of his posts he fell out with some continential forums, I wonder what the story there is.

How many will last the course remains to be seen. There seems to be confusion which way to go newsagent or subscription, both has its faults. There are a fair amount of people on that site which seem to be in a rush, I thought this was a relaxing hobby.

I am interested how it all is unfolding, more questions than answers. that site has more twists than a ride at Alton Towers.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 08:07:09 AM
I suspect the german guy departed the continental forums for one reason alone, those who did not love his set-up he slated and those who talked of the Hachette RC pack he also slated.
There is already evidence of the same tact creaping in on the .co.uk site, in one of lhs latest postings he abruptly tells a guy 'nonsense' for asking a simple question about running over the plank lengths at the bow by a few mm, he comes across as you cant tell me anything and those who go the Hachette RC pack are you know whats, so it could be that the guys on the continental forums had a go at him and he spat out his dummmy, it maybe that something in his set-up is not as compatible as he would like to think, sometimes we cam overcomplicate things for the bus of it looking a very technical set-up.

In many cases there does seem to be some urgency to the build, what some dont seemed to have grasped is that this is a 140 week series, so yeah run out and buy his RC gear but your still not going to get beyond the build of the weekly supplied mag, its fine chopping the ship about to install his RC gear but they and especially he simply does not know what is to come over the 140 week span, at least us here can keep an eye in what comes in the mags with Germany being 25 mags in front ;) 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 08:53:45 AM
I noticed in one of his posts he mentioned a vibration when he ran his set up at top speed, his solution was to ignore it as he thought the problem went away when the hull was in water. I'd be inclined to find out why and cure it. first place to look is if those Lassek props are balenced, but judging by the skill level of most of the builders on that site they might struggle to balence them properly.

i've never some across anyone who has r/c the Hachette/Amati Titanic. I did see one modela t weymouth but did not manage to speak to the builder. He was sailing it in the pool at the Pavilion, it looked a bit unstable to say the least when it turned, in fact on more than one occasion he looked a bit worried. Great looking model I hope he is there this year.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 09:19:01 AM
Hi Martin

Its on the buildthebismarck.co.uk site within the German RC gear topic on page 5 and is the 2nd posting.

Somthing is not all as it seems here, if you look thru that topic from the start one minute he has black nylon props in place shown twice then suddenly out come the brass ones from Lassek, so does his vibration comment relate to having the nylon props installed or the brass ones or is it related to his set-up?

Daryl - like you say all that has happened is that the the vibes have been muted by the water, they are still there so he could be talking problems in the long or even short term, why I said previously possibly a great next TV ad for the Renault Megane as its a*s in this case might well be shaking ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 09:25:53 AM
And if the stern is not strengthened enough then it could fall off like the real one. A friend of mine had a small diameter prop shaft oscillate in the middle, took ages to work it out, he fitted a bearing in the middle of the tube and hey presto problem solved.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 11:00:20 AM
Just had this reply from jacklin, I sent the e-mail to Hachette.

Dear Daryl Dobbs,


SUBJECT: BUILD THE BISMARCK.


Thank you for your e-mail dated: 12/06/2007.


From issue 23, the step-by step instructions will give the opportunity to
make the model either static or radio-controlled.


For the people who choose the RC option, there will be a special offer to
get the engine and the RC unit. The offer will be confirmed later on.


If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us
directly.


Please accept my sincere apology for the late response.



Yours Faithfully
Jonathan Moleta
Customer Care


looks like a bogstandard reply. The same I got word for word last week. They still prattle on about the step-by-step instructions giving the option of installing r/c gear.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 11:13:01 AM
Am puzzled by what they mean when they say "the offer will be confirmed later on"

So does that mean you can order it at 23 and its cost will be confirmed later, or they will confirm later when you are to receive it, or details of the RC pack are in 23 but it will be offered later on?

It seems a bit vague to me, it could also be ages before anyone sees it, by then its installation surely gets more taxxing ???  Germany were told it was expected there last autumn....they are still waiting for it to surface :o

Have you seen the posting today on the site from a guy who's build is at 11, he now wants to hack his hull to accomodate the german guys 3 motor set-up and asking him to post the detail on how to set about the hacking, its all going to get very ineresting ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 12:42:27 PM
yes I have seen the post, it seems an epidemic now to build as far as part 11 then go into driller killer mode and start hacking the keel around. I will follow this lot with interest to see how they get on. I have done a r/c conversion similar to the German on a Billings boat, not easy and lots of reinforcement needed. Good luck to them I think they will need it.
I like the earlier post about the guy who didn't have a drill long enough so he drilled from both ends and still had a gap in the middle, so he heated up a nail and burned the remaining bit out. Umm on a wooden hull brave or foolhardy man.

The letter I got was word for word the same as the one I got from Amati last week, the questions I asked hachette/jacklin was. 1/ when are we going to install the prop shafts, 2/ when are we going to order the R/C gear and when will it arrive and 3/ what battery is supplied and what charger is it 240v for the UK. Nice of them to answer so vauge, doesn't inspire confidence.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 12:56:02 PM
Well at least you got a reply, I have had no reply so far from Amati or Hachette on the exact same questions, even so I suspect any reply would ditto those you've had, for some reason they are playing there cards close to there chests or there really is something they dont want us to know, why else be so vague?.... its not rocket science or then again for some people at the South African call centre this might well be the case ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 01:15:22 PM
One thing I have noticed is that most of the .co.uk bunch are members of the .com site. But on the .com site there is no german flogging r/c gear, I wonder why.

Hachette almost seems to be making this up as they go along, I wonder how far ahead they are in ordering the parts for the mag, I assume Amati has finished designing it and a pre-production model exists somewhere. i am surprised they don't have a help line when the build goes wrong, I am sure it would be a money spinner for them. just look at some of the questions on .co.uk. The apparent differences between the German pictures of the R/C gear and the pictures in the pull out of issue 1 is interesting, unbranded motors, cheeper? changing supplier, or waiting to see how many people in the UK and Germany order the stuff to get the best price for themselves by ordering in bulk.

As Hachette/Jacklin got brances in New Zeland and Australia I wonder if the Bismarck is on sale there?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 02:01:59 PM
Maybe this is why there response was to say the RC pack will be confirmed later, its all as clear as mud.

Also seems odd as to why the UK pullout leaflet only shows a couple of the RC pack items, very minimal to say the least, you would have thought showing a nice spread of components like the offer sheet does would entice more to buy into it.

My guess is that the mag parts will be ordered three of four mags in front of what is on sale, as dont forget each month the number dropping out of the series will grow and as a result Hachette will need less mags to fulfil orders ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 02:46:23 PM
a few more will drop out if they muck up the cutting job on the keel to put a third motor in. I wonder is it only on sale in the UK and germany?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on June 14, 2007, 02:53:42 PM
Daryl,

No sign of it here in Tasmania Australia, pity I would not mind having a go myself........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 03:06:10 PM
Daryl - it seems to be on sale in.....wait for it......Poland of all places, now who in there right bonce would think of launching a Bismarck series in Poland of all places? maybe all really has been forgiven.

Cant see it anywhere else not even in Hachettes home land but they do have what looks like a nice wooden boat on the go if its ok with martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 03:38:00 PM
Nice, I'm sure that would sell well wherever its launched.

Poland :D :D :D

Fawlty Towers springs to mind  ;D ;D ;D

Looks like its only Germany and us.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 03:53:29 PM
I have just remebered, I  read I think it was on here but I can't find it a post announcing the launch of the partwork. it was written by the guy who proof read the mag or at least the historical part of it. I wish I could find out where I read it as a swift e-mail to him might answer a few questions.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 03:58:54 PM
Maybe ask for Martins help on that one?

Was'nt joking about Poland ;D

http://www.bismarck.com.pl/BISMARCK4.pdf
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
Just spotted an interesting post, The German guy suggests holding the deck on with Magnets. A good idea but it may have its drawbacks. If any of the magnets are by the rx antenna or any other electronic equipment it may induce interferance. I wonder who's make of Tx he is selling, come to think of it I wonder where Thunder Tiger is getting their stuff from.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 04:29:28 PM
Thunder Tiger make there own brand of RC equipment called ACE RC, its basic stuff and it works but dont expect any frills, they may also manufacture all the otherparts of the RC set, if not then it is still likely to come form the far east...cheap n cheerful ;)

One thing to look out for is that the RC set in the Hachette RC pack is actuallu 40Mhz am as stated on the German offer leaflet, though this may change for the UK, tell you for why.... I notice the exact same set (Ace Jaguar) that Thunder Tiger supply elsewhere are supplied as 27Mhz am systems :o

You know what the 27Mhz band is like for interference....taxi for Daryl ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 04:51:36 PM
couple of years ago my son was racing in a SWAMBC FE series at warminster. the lake is in a deep vally is concrete sided witha  metal bnd all around. Off he went doing quite well, until... his boat with no help from Sam went around the first bouy the wrong way, ( talka bout scatter the convoy ;D ;D ;D). then headed down the lake towards teh kids paddeling poola t about 30-40mph. Sharp turn right, hit the bank bounced off did a 360 turn hit the bank again and stopped with smoke pouring out of the hatch. The only reason it stopped was the battery, esc and rx all ended up on top of each other and shorted causing a small fire which was put out when the water entered through the melted bottom of the ABS hull.

After the laughter sub sided with Sam and I stareing in total amazement I ran and got the bits back with the aid of the rescue boat and waders. I re-built the boat, patched the hole, re-used the rx and on the next run a similar thing happened. Then we changed from ACOMS to a Futaba 40mhz FM. We blamed the fault on cheep Acoms r/c gear, now we use either Hitec or Futaba.

We probibly will use our own r/c gear but who knows time will tell.

Daryl

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 05:06:51 PM
When the radio is the only thing between you and and expensive model you gotta have the best you can afford or what er indoors will allow ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 14, 2007, 08:35:00 PM
Daryl - Well what do you know, I got the exact box standard reply you got from Jacklins, and they also chose to ignore the query re the battery/charger as they did with your query, there reply is as vague as it could possibly be.

The opening paragraph reads......

"From issue 23, the step by step instructions will give the opportunuity to make the model either static or radio-controlled"

So do we assume they mean that from 23 onwards there will be additional info in the mags for the RC builders of the model which the static builders should ignore?

The 2nd paragraph reads.....

" For the people who choose the RC option, there will be a special offer to get the engine and the RC unit, the offer will be confirmed later on."

The way I read this is there is to be an offer of an RC pack which will be confirmed later on in the series, so basically the offer is not in 23 but later in the series?

Still no response directly from Isabelle at Hachette which may suggest they dont want to reveal any more than what Jacklins have already been told to say.

I notice our mutual friend has chosen not to ignore that guys request for details of what to do re chopping his build (which is already at issue 11) to accomodate the three motor set-up, I did say the guy would get peed off being repeatedly pestered for the info on his set-up, wonder if a vanishing act is part of his build too ;D

Picked up issue 16 today, not far to 23 and all will then become clearer hopefully but not doubt it will only raise further puzzles ::)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 10:59:05 PM
Hi Down Below,
 I too noticed the chap asked twice for pictures, all the advice he got look at previous post. Umm not exactly overflowing with helpful info for his 'customers'. I wonder why he didn't show up on mateyboys buildthetitanic site as he as mentioned he used some of the Titanic gear in his Bismarck. Never heard of a Amati Titanic R/C conversion, I have only seen the hull from the outside so I don't know about internal divisions.

I did see a Titanic at Weymouth but it was unstable, if its there this year I'll ask the builder if I get a chance to see if it is the Amati version.

Interesting posts on the German r/c conversion section. looks like one guy after building up to issue 11 has abandoned the idea of hacking the keel around to install the third motor after asking for more info and getting nothing but look at earlier posts. Wise move I think as the third motor is tricky for a novice and we don't know exactly what is ahead.

Is this the start of people getting wise to the fact that he thinks he knows everything about this build, ( this hobby is a constant learning curve and who know what is ahead but Amati) but has his own intersts at heart. Also he does have a comercial interest in flogging r/c gear, I have noticed he doesn't say what make the Tx is or if its 27 or 40mhz AM or FM. From his pictures the esc's are Mtronics, a fairly decent make. We also know he has fallen out with several german forums.

I am all for accuracy and constant improvement but everyone has to start somewhere and this kit is not the easiest way to be introduced to the hobby. some of the advice given so far on that site is not ideal for this build nor for the inexperienced who needs help and advice not curt replies or too advanced methods with sketchy instructions. Where is the webmaster apart from swaning around south korea. Partworks like should be an advertisment into the hobby, I wonder how many will be put off, pity there is good advice out there on sites like this one where help is readily given. I have wondered over the last few days per haps Hachette should run a helpline for modelelrs who are stuck, a bit like PC World etc. I am sure it would be a money spinner if they employ the right people.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 14, 2007, 11:38:33 PM
I have just read on the other site a very good post about a guy who has installed the middle shaft after he has started planking. well done to him it sounds like he has succseeded. But I wonder how many will fail. He does admit it is a very difficult, and we shall see how many of these conversions stand up to its maiden voyage, if the reinforcement and waterproofing is not done well.

I wonder how many will check the Lassek props their getting to see if they are balenced and how many will know what to do about it?

Bismarck meets Renault megane ;D ;D ;D ;D

Daryl

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 08:08:17 AM
I notice the webmaster of the site has now removed all the links to copyrighted material, no doubt the owners of it were non too chuft about it being used without there permission, though not a peep from him on anything else thats going on nor an udate in his build which is only at 11 when the latest mag is heading for 17, his forum is being discreetly hijacked and is rapidly turning into the 'Build a three motor version and I can supply the goods' forum.

Also I read that aguy has realised the three motor version is best installed from the start of the build rather than 10 mags in.

I agree Hachette should set up a dedicated helpline re there models, DeAgostini already have this as I know a couple of guys who were directed to it, apparently any call the call centre cant handle is directed some kind of model consultancy business who know all there is to know about the DeAgostini model in question, at least that way you get sound advice and also maybe some good tips on what to do for best if you make a mess of your project, a good move forward in partworks and one that Hachette might learn from, though we do have our suspicions dont we Daryl ;D

I have no sympathy for those struggling with the build where it is obvious they are not following the build step by steps in the mag, then popping obvious questions left right and centre that are answered in the mag, in actual fact you get more info and photos in the mag than what you with most kits.

Think the german guy is being a little irresponsible describing the build of this model and his 3 motor RC installation a"easy with a little help", also the cardan joints may make his drive noiseless but not vibration free as he expressed previously.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 09:00:39 AM
Umm I didn't notice the copyright stuff has been removed, I am not surprised a bit naughty.
So far Sam has found the instructions very good, far better than most kits as you say. The build problems so far seem to stem from lack of reading and skipping stages. Why the rush we have a long way to go.

The guy with the long post mentioned one intersting fact which Sam and I spotted, he has made the slots in the stern frames bigger to accomodate his prop tube. I'm at work now or I should rephrase that I am attending work, but this morning when I was feed our woofs I had another look at the diameter. They do seem a tad small, I hope issue 23 has the answers but I doupt it. It looks like small prop tube and long shaft. when I get home I'll dig out the early issues to see what they dipicted as the shaft tube assembly for the UK.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 09:13:59 AM
Just had a look at the picture the Germans had showning the R/C gear( p4 on here). It does seem a bit big for the diameter of the slots in the rear frames.

Just spotted post from the webmaster who has woken up!! sounds like someone gave him earache about the copyrighted stuff. He should have been on to that straight away. I wonder whan we shall get a binder as the pages are coming loose at home.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 09:19:21 AM
Yes your right about the small prop shaft indentations and it does look as you say, am looking forward to seeing issue 23 for hopefully further clarity of there RC plan, though Germany had this ages ago so I suppose the geman guys three motor build has taken this ito consideration, it might also be a reason as to why he has now got vibes.

Did you manage to find a pic of his complete RC Titanic anywhere?

Not sure what issue the binders are supposed to arrive or if they are foc, they normally try to include them on your invoice at something like £5.99 which is poor valuue for money, I put my mags into a 99p ring binder or 'aquire' one from work ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 09:26:46 AM


I'll have a read of his buildthetitanic forum later and see what that was like( boss wonders what I am doing?).

I think I saw a post on .com or .cu.uk which said the binders are free for subscribers and cost £4 for everyone else. I don't beleive that as normally they charge about £5 which as you say is a bit dear. We should ahve one arriveing soon I would have thought. The DVD should arrive in the next batch I wonder if the Germans had theirs with batch 4?

I had a look last night to try to find pictures of the German Titanic but couldn't find any. I wonder if he got it to work, I ahve only seen a couple of R/C Titanics one at 1/144 and the Weymouth model at about 3-4 ft long, both were a bit unstable when turning and both owners didn't sail them when it was choppy. Titanic does not seem to convert to r/c well with a narrow beam.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 10:24:28 AM
re the Titanic...probably why Amati & Hachette did not go down that route with there kit, but it seems an odd one or two did, cant say I have seen any RC converted ones around of the Hachette kit, from what you say about the one you saw it sounded a bit of a handful, some things simply do not transfer too well into RC versions.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 10:33:01 AM
Now I am going off at a tangent a bit, not very many posts on buildthetitanic.co.uk forum, all of them were from this year and most about the bismarck ???

I did look on his week by week build, true to form he seems to deviate from the step-by-step instructions as he mentions several times his own way of doing things. I did however find build week 11 interesting, he glues together all of the keel parts which seem to go up to the main deck level, then he puts in all of the frames which are like the keel solid and go all the way up to the main deck level. This leaves a series of small boxes, creating enough room for radio gear involves an emormious amount of cutting. It is easier to scratch build the hull than remove about 70% of the frame work. The r/c conversion is not impossible but is extremely difficult and I can't see its worth the trouble. I looked on the web and can't see anyone who has done this, but I have seen lots of people asking if it can be done but seem to abandon the idea and build it static.

Back to the Bismarck, I agree there is more than one way to do things but the buildthebismarck site only gives the 3 motor view. I think comercial interests are at work somewhere.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 11:16:58 AM
Notice a guy planning to stick with the available RC pack build, but nobody there seems to want to comment or encourage him.
Seems some are bit like sheep being lead, thinking that the 3 motor version has to be the way to go which also seems to have hijacked the site somewhat.
You would think he must be coming to the end of those who intend to buy into the 3 motor set-up as the series is just about at 17 in the UK and the Hull  is well down the route of being planked, mind you there are those out there who sit with unopened mags for quite a while with the project in mind to start later on, not a bad thing  as it allows you to consider all options and what the outcome might be for some routes.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 11:27:05 AM
I think a disapearing act is on the cards, he doesn't seem to helpfull now. I assumehe is watching therest of Europe to see where Hachette launches it next, Holland is my guess judging from a  post ealier from a dutch guy saying Hachette is normally 3 or 4 months behind the UK.

I think the penny has dropped on some over there that his 3 motor set up is very tricky and not as easy as he makes out. Did you see the post from the guy who propped his Part D on a pillar drill and still had problems with getting a hole through at the correct angle.

looking on the .com site the webmaster put a post on the r/c thread saying he is going for the 2 motor set up most likly from Hachette. Our German friend has not surface there and is not on the members list as far as I can see. Food for thought.

Daryl

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on June 15, 2007, 12:29:50 PM
Are three motors really necessary its not the biggest of kits is it or am i setting myself up for a lecture on ship dynamics ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 12:41:31 PM
Hi leaky,
That's a good question, the boat is not that big so I think 2 will be more than enough, so does Hachette in an e-mail they sent me. Weight of the total model is a worry, apart from Amati who knows what trimming it would need to float to the correct waterline. Endurance is another thought 1 more motor means bigger battery= more weigh or less running time.

On the other site the german guy has hijacked the forum there and denounces anything but his equipment. Hachette says two motors is plenty. I think from looking at models of a similar size/scale the finished model should weigh around 10kg. What the boat weighs without r/c gear is anyones guess, Hachette in Germany hints they will supply a gell cell 6v just over 4ah, this must weigh in the region of 800grms to 1kg. plus ESC, motors etc. then there is the job of altering the keel not very easy to say the least.

Daryl


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 12:58:34 PM
Leaky - 3 motors will certainly make it fast, the question is do you really want a speed boat Bismarck that might sit low at the stern as it powers thru the water?

Daryl - Did you see the about me note on the web site of the kit car you mentioned, as follows: "My other hobbies include building models, mainly static models of cars but there is a few odd balls amongst my collection."

So one might ask does he have any experience of RC, also the only other ship model appears to be the Titanic which is not finished.

This might explain why there is no mention on the forum of which version he is to run with be it static or RC, unless it has slipped me by, my guess having read the above is that it will be static, so maybe no RC expertise hence why the RC banter has been left to the german guy ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 01:08:15 PM
I agree, he seems not to have much R/C experience with boats. He has posted on the .com site his last being at the end of May when he hints at using the Hachette gear.

With the current post on there from Fishtank2007 I wonder if the german guy will respond. His sales chart must be dipping a bit by now. still no one has asked what frequency AM or FM and what make he is supplying, the photos show graupner motors and Mtroniks esc's, at least we hope Hachette will show us a picture of their gear.

With this model I think two motors will provide enough power, something like graupner 400's, I have one in a ORSV about the same size as this Bismarck but the hull is a bit brick shaped. The speed 400 powers it well and we have only 1 in it. Bismarck is a bit more hydrodynamic than our ORSV so should do better.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 02:06:01 PM
Very sensible concerns by fishtank, I see he has also posted it on the .com site with some sensible advice having been given.

My question would be what would the novices have done if they did not stumble across the various options?

Very likley they would have stuck with the offer pack andl been very happy at then end, sometimes its better you dont let your head run away with things you stumble across, it can complicate things further and then lead you down a track you  might come to regret.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 02:25:59 PM
I agree, this boat will take a few hours, and is not as easy as the blurb from Hachette says. Westbourne's should put him on the right track. At last some sensible advice on there. Now waiting to see if anyone resonds on the .co.uk site.

Still puzzeled over the size of the slots on the frames where the shafts are suppoed to go. Looking at the picture of the german gear I am not convinced yet that they are big enough. I suppose we will have to wait until Germany gets their set sometime in august if the e-mail we have been getting is to be beleived.

I think this weekend junior and I had better think about this and decide which way to go, Hachette gear or our own. I have the upmost sympathy for novices who are starting on this and getting confused by the rush for 3 motors, the German's stuff is overly complicated for the beginner, and come to that someone who knows what they are doing..... sort of. I would like to think Amati/Hachette has this all worked out and is relativly idiot proof.

Daryl

I am sure Hachette has misssed a trick in not having a modeling helpline.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 03:09:14 PM
Am sure Amati/Hachette have it all covered, the only difference being the actual quality of what you get in the RC pack against what you might prefer, just becuase you buy better quality does not necessarily mean it will go better.
Something to consider is also a case of how often you are likley to sail it, a lot are building this model for the love of building with a view to maybe sailing her as and when it suits, its not what you would describe as a fun/sports model to thrash around the lake, though with three motors and hyperdrive it might be :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 03:28:57 PM
Good points, Sam is building for the love of it and looks forward to when we can get her down to the lake in Yate. Things don't usually go wrong with an Amati kit, but the size of the slots is puzzeling. I wonder when the stuff will arrive in Germany.


Lots of thought on this one over the weekend, still like to keep our options open as long as we feel it won't be to awkward to fit the tubes in. I am keeping an eye on the preview site seeing what is not to far ahead.

Down Below-did you see the build reports on the loco Poly, looks like its still work in progress.

Daryl

 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 15, 2007, 03:50:58 PM
Updated Build the Bismarck Links:

British Site: http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/index.html
British Site(?): http://www.buildthebismarck.com/

German Modeller: http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_aktuell.htm
German Modeller: http://bismarck.oehm.net/index.php?ta=conhtml&obj=index&st0=z&stnr=0&sp=2&titel=Startseite
German modeler: http://trakan.tr.funpic.de/ - http://trakan.tr.funpic.de/Bismarck/BSindex.html
German Modeller: http://www.projekt-bismarck.de/index2.php
German Modeler: http://www.baue-die-bismarck.de/viewpage.php?page_id=1
German Modeler: http://www.9teuflottille.de/index2.html
German Modeler: http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=4062

Hachett UK - - - - -  http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/product.php?proID=1172137511
Hachett  Germany - http://www.die-bismarck-bauen.de/

General Bismarck information: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/
   "            "            "        : http://www.kbismarck.com/



Can someone send me any links to builds with motors included.....


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 15, 2007, 04:04:41 PM
Yes Daryl I did, no wonder hes a very busy guy, a pattern though of unfinished projects emerging ;)

Martin - the only info re 'builds with motors included' comes in the buildthebismarck.co.uk site, even then it is in relation to the 3 motor set-up offered from the german guy and has nothing to do with the Hachette offered set-up.

Great list by the way ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 09:18:35 PM
Reading various posts on the couple of forums some people have mentioned that resin part D the bit with the centre prop on is a bit to small in heigth. I have seen two solutions, one from our German 'freind' which is to build up the base it sits on so that the keel is level with D. the other is a bit more drastic, cut it in half and insert a piece of wood to bring it level with the keel. some builders however have not mentioned this problem. Reading a german preview site I came across this for issue 41.

www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h41.htm

it appears that a plank is glued across the top leveling everything up or so it seems. I guess this may be one of the dangers of not carefully reading the instructions and finding problems where none exist.  I have no doupt there will be hitches along the way but care needs to be taken when reading of manufacturers problems which stem from the builders haste or inexperience.

Has anyone with a knowledge of german found anything on the german sites where they have found genuine problems, none should realy exist in a perfect world as Amati should have ironed the bugs out at the pre-production stage. But if this was a perfect world the Royal Navy would have its supercarriers by now ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on June 15, 2007, 09:22:05 PM
Having followed all these posts with a dreadful fascination it seems to me that it would have been much easier to build the thing from scratch in the first place!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 15, 2007, 09:25:25 PM
You have a good point, it would be a lot cheeper and less grief, but it keeps my son quiet and myself with something to think about while the builders destroy our house, I mean install the central heating. I'll be glad when i get the roof back where my workshop is.

Just noticed the clock on buildthebismarck.com forum is six or so hours ahead, would this mean its not a uk based site?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on June 15, 2007, 10:05:51 PM
Quote
Just noticed the clock on buildthebismarck.com forum is six or so hours ahead

Probably just a couple of issues...  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 16, 2007, 08:33:51 AM
Looking on the German preview site issue 41 still no bow piece ??? ??? ??? Can't fathom out the reason why they havn't sent it so far.

I have noticed on buildthebismarck.com an intersting question, a chap has started planking the bow and is questioning the alarmng angle the bow planks take fron the bulkhead. He says the picture in the book is taken at a strange angle, better if they took it at side on. He must be doing issue 13, which we are waiting for(subscription). Looking at the german preview site I tend to agree. Has anyone else  spotted this, I don't think it will be a problem as Sam could allways put in a filler piece.

Odd the german hasn't surfaced there yet.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 16, 2007, 09:31:18 AM
Hi Colin - Glad you are facinated ;)

We are presenting a view from the outside looking in so to speak and to present facts we have come across which lead to other angles, the actual on line build is being left with Martin which is within the 'Martin builds the Bismarck' topic where the build is being portrayed as per the mag build info and is top class quality stuff, unlike another site I can think of which deviates from the step by steps leading to confusion.
You are right about starting from scratch, though reading some of the posts god knows what those models would end up looking like ;D

Daryl - it seems the German guy maybe starting to duck out of replying queries, gone very quiet, maybe the bottom has fallen out of the 3 motor market ::)

I dont think there is a problem at 13 as nothing has been reported elsewhere nor on the .co.uk site, dont forget some problems are being raised that are self induced problems ie doing your own thing
I have completed up to 11 though have up to 16 in mags, a little behind on the build as am trying to complete another project for someone else at the same time.

Leaky - how are you getting on with your build?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 16, 2007, 07:49:04 PM
I have clamped a few planks in the position where they are going to be glued in part 13. Sam was a bit worried that I might be trying to depart from the instructions. The angle seems fine to me so I don't know what the guy is upto? When part 13 does arrive in a couple of weeks then we shall see if he has got a concern or just mucked it up.

The German guy is conspicuious by his absence, no posts from him for a while, he logged on yesterday for quite sometime but it apppears he was only looking. Umm time to check out? Odd he isn't on the other buildthebismarck site.

I have read some people are complaining that thier planks are different thicknesses and some are tapered. Our first bundle is ok, can't help thinking that they could be blaming the planks when its a case of over enthusiastic sanding of the frames. Sam decided not to sand the frames to remove the burning on the edges as he didn't want to alter the shape of them by mistake. I can see some people getting a bit carried away, hence some of the reported problems of dips in the hull and edges of planks showing. Sam uses Evostick weather proof and it as stuck them with no problem.

I have been keeping an eye on the German preview site, still no sign of the bow piece, can't fathom that one out I thought it would have arrived by now.

The webmaster of the .co.uk seems to have worked for BP on tankers, busy guy. strange he took on the build when he is half way around the world, The forum on the Titanic site was only set up at the begining of the year, why when its near the end of the build which he didn't finish.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 17, 2007, 10:32:10 AM
Like I said, some are causing there own problems and then highlighting them as possible build problems ;)

Definately an air of the guy now being fed up with the queries, my view is that if you offer something like that then you should be prepared for the questions that follow, maybe he is about to depart the .co.uk site for pastures new as before, you simply canot offer an experienced set-up expecting the novice to read your mind >:(

The planks are likely to vary in thickness from time to time but it should not cause any major problems, then again like you say some are simply over zealous with the sanding ;)

I tend to use Aliphatic resin in the main for anything wood and on occasion thick cyano or epoxy depending on the application, the right glue for the right job across any build I do.

Maybe the Titanic is not finisished as he is obviously not at home, but then again why would anyone want to take on a project such as the Bismarck then having to cart it half way round the world and then get the mags sent on to wherever you are and at the same time run a web build forum ???

Looks like chat re the webmasters build on the .co.uk site have diminished and even the chat room has died a death, possibly because the build is way behind the current mag issue, I cant see anyone waiting for him to post his latest offering to pick up any tips so that they can progress there own build, people will just want to get on with it.
So one might ask if you cant provide the weekly offering for others to possibly gain from it then whats the point?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 18, 2007, 09:29:09 AM
Good question just popped up on the.co.uk site, someone is asking how many are building it as he can't find anyone else in is locality according to his newsagent he's the only one. There was an item on the BBC news web site a couple of weeks ago about these partwork companies sales figures, interesting reading. I have gone down the subscription route as my local newsagent says I am the only one of his customers who has asked about it. I do wonder however how many have bought into this and how many Hachette expect to stay the course.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 18, 2007, 11:07:42 AM
I think most of the newsagent sales will come through WH Smiths as that is the obvious source.

One thing you can be sure of is that those buying into this series will be in there thousands rather than hundreds, simply because of the huge overheads of support that a partwork operation needs.

They will have a computer model that tells them what the likely fallout along the way is likely to be which I should imagine is quite accurate based on past sales experience, unless that is something dramatically goes wrong along the way that makes many simply dump the series.
The individual cost for an item is cleared quite early on in a series and there after its profit all the way, obviously depending on the length of a series the number of mags they need to turn it from covering cost to profit will vary as not each series or product costs the same, so as a result alll they need to ensure is that there are enough buying into a series that will cover the initial costs and off you go ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 18, 2007, 11:23:09 AM
A while back I read an annoucement which I thought was on here but I can't find it from a guy who proof read the magazine, I wish I could remember where exactly I read it. I have checked the two build sites and can't find it. It amy bring freash insight as to whats happening.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 18, 2007, 12:26:59 PM
Intesting, hope you come across it again as it might do to explain a few things ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 18, 2007, 12:38:13 PM
for those like us who subscribe, it looks like issues 12-15 are being sent out, hopefully Martin's missing one's is included in his.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 18, 2007, 01:13:29 PM

I'm going to plank my Bismarck with a thick layer of dust ...... ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on June 18, 2007, 03:23:55 PM
Quote
I'm going to plank my Bismarck with a thick layer of dust ......

Certainly sounds as if it is going to need dusting off periodically.  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 18, 2007, 04:08:39 PM
 ;D ;D you got a big brush we can borrow Colin? ;D ;D

Me n Daryl are working on  few links we have come across that may lead us down a direct route into the designer of this kit, which as it happens may not be Amati other than them being the manufacturer if that makes any sense...watch this space ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 19, 2007, 12:15:09 PM
I see there is a well done for the hatchet job ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 19, 2007, 04:36:54 PM
On the .co.uk site the Germans are saying that Hachette initially had 40,000 that started the series which has now settled to around 20,000, I expect another two or three thou will still drop out as it gets further down the line.

These are the sort of figures I talked of and would hazard a guess that around half of these numbers would be buying into it in the UK, hell of a nice nice profit there after charging £700 per customer that completes the series for an item that might have cost Hachette £100 per customer :-X

Daryl - Have a good read of Dirks posting on the .co.uk site in the 'Reaction from Amati' topic, a long detailed letter sent to Amati saying customers were getting more & more dissatisfied with the model and pointing out a comprehensive list of faults they found in Germany, the guy is writiing on behalf of the many German build forms and there is also a response from Amati :o

Its right to the point and looks like the Germans have caught Amati/Hachette with there pants down, Daryl do you recognise the name of Sergio ;)

Martin, how are we fixed for posting these letters on here?...are we going to upset anyone other than to highlight the problems they have found and what Amati say so far?

The BIG concern is that the problems identified are heading to the UK :o

I like the reply posting from Bob saying that 'Amati/Hachette should have mentioned the RC side of things earlier in the build so that the various mods for prop shafts etc could have been easily made'.
I think the last minute decision for an RC option for this model came with good intentions but it simply came far to late in the deisgn to late to make life easy for the installation of it.

This is one of the problems we have been highlighting all along, to repeat myself again in that it is quite apparent that this kit was never intend for RC as all the evidence firmly backs this up, I just hope Hachette/Amati manage to pull this project off otherwise the bad PR from it might sink them and the Bismarck.

No doubt the media are looking on with close interest due to the bad press this partwork had from the outset regarding its length of 140 weeks and total cost, things wont look too rosey for Hachette partworks if this project goes pearshaped, there will also be egg on face for Amati too :'(


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 19, 2007, 09:27:31 PM
I found the post on .co.uk very interesting. One of the points mentioned is the superstructure is covered with brass etch which some say are poor quality. Whatever the quality its the weight I am wondering about, all that weight on top, i have heard the turrets are resin more top weight. The people whoa re installing three motors to the germans plan might have a shock, at this rate the total weigh will be marginal. I wonder how much thought Amati has gone into the seakeeping abilities.

The letter speaks of innacuracies, like wrong number of portholes, incorrect number of vents below the water line. The thought that bothers me and I havn't had a look at the Anatomy of the Ship book is how accurate are the plans which I hope Amati used and I assume the writer is refering to. Are there more than one set of plans? I do agree for the money we should expect a very fine and detailed model. Amati's reply was interesting they conseed the point that the stern ancour recess is in the wrong place and is slightly the wrong shape. But I wonder how justified is the strong list of faults the german guy listed. Both parties do raise some valid points and from what i read the only difference in the uK is the translation of the instructions which we find perfectly readable unlike the author of the letter to Amati.

How many people is the German guy writing for I wonder has he maintains quite a few, but you can't please all of the people all of the time and no matter how good the resurch is you allways get someone who knows better that the third rivit from the left is a micron to small.

Down below- yep I recognise the name, might be Sergio Marleti the designer, same guy I think who did their Titanic.

From our point of view with the few issues we have ( upto 11) we find everything fits and the instructions are prefectly readable. The accuracy I can't realy comment on as we have only the frames and a few planks. From what I have read on the various forums most of the problems are induced by the builder not reading the instructions, this point has been mentioned by amati.


As its apparent that this model is an after thought for radio control we fully expect the odd problem, but Hachette/Amati don't help the situation by not communicating  fully to any enquiry and that inclueds e-mail. The e-mails I have had from them are hardly full of information, but the one posted on the .co.uk site is very informative and I hope Hachette takes note. Dealing with a call centre far away is not usually the easiest of tasks.

I will watch the developments of the posts with interest.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 20, 2007, 12:32:37 AM
Or you could bid on this one!  ::)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120134164121&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:uk
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 20, 2007, 07:57:54 AM
Martin - It looks very much like the Fleetscale Bismarck.

Daryl - From what I can gather the letter is representing all of the guys on the German forums who have found the exact same problems & errors with this model, so there does seem to be truth behind his findings.

I have just emailed Hachette UK to look into the letters & findings, already had a reponse saying they are to speak with Amati asap.
The way this project is heading it is likely to end up as a highlight on the BBC Watchdog programme or have involvement by Trading Standards.
If you read the below points it does appear that Hachete/Amati do have some serious questions to answer as there does seem some misrepresentation :o

The opening lines from Hachette on the issue 1 backing board and also the pull-out leaflet read as follows:

"This model distinguishes itself through its accuracy and attention to detail, the 1:200 scale allows you to reproduce the original Bismarck in its smallest detail"

Also says: "Created from the original plans"

So the question is how come we have inaccuracies?

Quality of parts is not an arguement unless the parts are unsuitable as nowhere does it say top notch components are supplied, Partworks are notorious for supplying poor value for money components :o

In my view build  problems as a result of poor kit design or poor build info are not acceptable especially with such a high volume/high profile series >:(

I suppose for Germany this is there most loved ship and as a result this kit will be gone over inch by inch by the purists, however the guy does have a number of points such as wrong number of portholes and the wrong location for the anchor seating.

Hachette need to nip this one in the bud and come clean very quickly as faith in there brand is rapidly being eroded >:(

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 09:43:00 AM
Blomn & Voss I beleive has the originals in their archive, copies exist in several museums. I wonder if the palns are the originals or are copies. Another thought is I wonder how many departures from these palns occured to ge the ship launched.

I hope Hachette publishes on the various web sites their reply after consulting with Amati, Both parties stand to loose a considerable amount of money if this goes pearshaped, might even bring down one or both of them.

On the original post on buildthebismarck.co.uk forum the webmaster as you say askes for the photos mentioned in the e-mail to Amati. I do hope he posts them as I would be interested to see what they show.

The anchor position is clearly shown in a number of photos, one of which is in their mag, mistakes like this should have been spotted at the pre-production stage. Who checked the design? Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder ;D ;D ;D

Junior has decided he will continue with the build as he is enjoying it dispite the looming controversy, but I will keep an eye on the e-bay bismarck, I fancy a holiday in Scotland.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 20, 2007, 10:13:02 AM
I think we all are going to end up with a Bismarck that is not accurate if you follow the build steps unless that is you alter the detail yourself, this seems to make a mockery of what the kit was advertised as "an accurate scale model" which makes me annoyed as I now feel I have been mislead.

Would love to be a fly on Hachette/Amati's wall today, they have a serious fire to put out here or will they assume that regarding accuracy most will just build the model and take it as it is with no come back on them?
If so this is wrong as they should not be allowed to get away with it, you dont buy a brand new Porche to discover it has bits in the wrong place and missing spec >:(

I just hope that the facts are right as news of this is spreading like wildfire, the writer of the letter does seem to know what he is talking about and seems best placed to comment as it appears he is a Bismarck buff, I cant wait to hear what Hachette have to say about the matter and what they intend doing about it ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 11:14:50 AM
Intersting post on the .co.uk forum about pins? and where to get them, hasn't the guy heard about stationers?

Hachette needs to make a statement quickly, they took their time over the issue 4 cancellation letter which did not reflect well on them, then their explanation did not ring of the entire truth. I think the people who have bought into this need to know where they stand as regards to accuracy and quickly. The whole partwork is degenerating into a shambles.

The guy who wrote the historical script for the mag Joesef Kaiser who is renowned expert would be the ideal person to ask about the level of his input into the design and answer the questions Dirk et al as raised.


Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peterm on June 20, 2007, 11:57:37 AM
I had originally considered building this thing.   All thiis controversy makes me glad I didn`t bother.   PeteM
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 20, 2007, 12:10:45 PM
Well it does appear it is turning into a bit of a damp squib, I'am at issue 17 and seriously considering where I go from here, what else is to come to light or what are we to discover as further down the line that then makes ones losses significant for you to pull the plug :'(

It makes you wonder if an actual prototype does exist for this model other than it possibly being in electronic format alone ???
If the finished article had been put under the nose of Kaiser before Amati gave the go ahead for its release to production then surely he would have easily instantly pointed out any inaccuracies, or maybe he did see it and did pass commet to that effect, but maybe then both Hachette & Amati thought the inaccuracies could be got away with?

I suspect that many building this model would have not realised the inaccuracies had they not been poited out :-\

Any build problems relating to the design are Amati's problem and not it seems that the advertised info of the model being accurate is Hachette's major headache :'(

A right can of worms this is turning out to be >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 01:01:41 PM
just noticed on the buildthebismarck.co.uk site there is a special offer for the book anatomy of the ship for £25. Just looked on Amazon they sell it for £21, intersting reviews, both not complementary, one even says the drawings are wrong.

As a neutral more or less in this controvisy regarding differencies between the Amati bismarck and th German forum peoples opinions I have several thoughts.

1/ where did Amati get their information from, we know they put the anchor in the wrong place.

2/ if they consulted the 'original' plans then when were they drawn and did any changes occur after they were drawn to allow for supply/engineering problems after all they did have a war to run.

3/ where did the germans who are complaining get their information from is it photo's, after all it didn't have a very long life.

4/ Everyone makes mistakes, who checked the design to make sure they got it right, if they did why did they miss the anchor position, which is very clearly shown in several photos.

5/The germans mention the ports for the turbines are wrong in dimentions and the wrong number of them. How did they work that out? they are below the waterline and as far as I can see not in any picture I have seen. Did they get the information from plans if so how accurate are the plans. The ones in the Anatomy of the Ship book are reputed to contain errors.

6/ This is a hard one to answer with the 'problems' highlighted so afar does it really make a difference. How accurate can we resonably expect the model to be. In war time things change quickly and without documentation.

Now where did I put that tin hat ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 01:30:49 PM
The controversy has not yet made it on to either of the two Bismarck enthuisiasts sites
www.bismarck-class.dk or www.kbismarck.com
these sites are full of Bisamrck experts I would have thought that someone who as issues with the accuracy would have posted on their forums. It would be interesting when they do, or to put it another way fan the flames a bit more.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 20, 2007, 01:41:44 PM
It might be that the originator of the letter is a member of one or both sites hence the expertise.

The German findings are based on what has been built so far plus what is being passed to them direct from Amati in the previews.
If you read Sergio's response it he mentions the provision of the preview issue #51, this is way in advance of this mag hitting the streets in Germany as there build is only at issue 42.
This also answers the previous query of how many mags in front of the actual build Amati/Hachette have in hand, seems to be 9 or 10 ;)

So, I presume the Germans are simply basing there findings on what has been supplied to date plus the preview mags, even so this only gives then up to 51 but maybe enough to genearte the letter, so one might ask what other errors might we to discover, at 51 it just over a third of the way in to completion.

It seems that someone in Germany is carefully comparing the Hachete build against a Bismarck plan of some description, though this plan may not be quite the same as the plan that Amati have.

Who is right or wrong will come to light but all the same there are most definately problems such as the location of the Anchor, this is clearly wrong, as for the portholes etc etc then someone in Germany seems to be well clued up on how it should be, or it could be that they have got it very wrong due to having wrong plans?
Surely Amati and the German guy cant both be right :o

The highlighted Anchor error is such an obvious error on Amati's part, it makes you wonder what else have they got wrong.
It could well be that the German guy has hit the mark in what he says and at the moment it does appear he is very close to the truth, if so then both Amati & Hachette had better invest in some serious head gear as tin hats wont save them from the fallout ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 01:59:32 PM
The german guy Dirk has said he will post some pictures of the previews on the.co.uk site and some pictures of the corresponding section of the real thing. I hope he does as this will generate more questions to Amati. With the anchor Amati (Sergio) has said they were at fault, he doesn't however say how they made that error.

At the minute I would tend to go with Dirk, but what of the rest of the issues. As for the plans some of the Blomn & Voss material ended up in Russia who has just realeased them for public consumption. I hope Amati comes up with answers soon.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 20, 2007, 02:38:20 PM
Or maybe if they choose to stay silent maybe they think we will all go away and just get on with it >:(

For me I want to know asap exactly what the score is so I can then make my own informed choices as to what to next, one thing for sure, I dont expect to pay top notch money for a half baked concept.

What Hachette will be very mindful of now is that many may now throw there models back at them demanding a refund or compensatuion for the model not being accurate as was advertised.

In supplying goods which are not as advertised the the door is wide open to sling your ships back to them for a full refund, Trading Standards will tell you that Hachette dont have a leg to stand on ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 02:51:21 PM
All the more reason for hachette to pull their finger out and get us some answers.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 20, 2007, 04:06:35 PM
Was just having a sneaky laugh at the 'Anatomy of the Bismarck' book which is for sale on the .co.uk site which is being sold at a specal price....er now we know why, have a read of review of this book on the link below and see what I mean.........

http://www99.epinions.com/content_315487325828

Two out of a five star rating!....I like the bits about it having an" incomprehensible scale system, poor photographs" and "the most famous battleship of all time desreves way better than this"........So that's where Amati got there original scaling plans from ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 20, 2007, 10:23:28 PM
Amazon sells the book for £21 and it has a couple of reviews both bad. Is this where they are getting some of their information from?

I looked on the forum Dirk on the buildthebismarck.co.uk forum mentioned but as far as I can see on none of the posts are the pictures he mentions. it doesn't help that I can't read german but as far as I can tell there are no links either, baffling.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 21, 2007, 09:04:05 AM
Something odd about the previews dirk says he has got, Hachette we all know and hate are not exactly coperative at times so how did he get his hands on them?
I also had a look at the german preview site at issue 42, that issue comes with the first row of portholes for the hull, I have looked at photos and I can't see any missing or in the wrong place, but the picture of the bow from the preview is smalla nd at a bad angle so I could be barking up the wrong tree. It would do his credibility a world of good if those 'pictures ' he claims prove his complaints are published. There is a possibility that Amati may be right, the admit they got the anchor wrong.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 21, 2007, 11:52:08 AM
The previews are coming direct from Amati to the Die Graue Flotte forum who appear to have set this up direct with Amati, Dirk is merely the messenger though he does also confirm the letter findings.

Having said that, I bet Hachete aint too chuft about the way in advance previews being passed on by Amati, it takes control from Hachette who's series this is and who ultimately have responsibilty.

The Anchor position is most definately wrong and Amati have already admitted this, such a stupid error to make as its position is quite clear from any of the archive photos of the ship, so one might well ask if they got such a simple thing wrong then what else is wrong?
No doubt the germans are digging deep and going over everything with a fine toothed comb as it does appear they now have the bit between there teeth for explanations and answers from both Hachette & AmMati, SO far a little disappointing as I dont see any speedy action from either to address the situation ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 21, 2007, 12:22:38 PM

I've got some work to do on my Bismarck then!!  :D

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 21, 2007, 12:34:44 PM
Typical Hachette and your still behind ,  I picked up 17 yesterday ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 21, 2007, 03:01:35 PM
we have upto issue 11, I have read that some people this week had issues 12-15. We expect something to drop through the letter box anyday now.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 21, 2007, 03:19:39 PM

What are all these bits of wood for?!?!  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 21, 2007, 03:21:03 PM
camping fire ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 21, 2007, 03:23:41 PM
Er.... for building a ship that looks like the Bismarck, any left overs are the accuracy bits ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on June 21, 2007, 03:28:57 PM

What are all these bits of wood for?!?!  ::)


The way things seem to be heading, Daryl could be uncomfortable close to the truth.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 21, 2007, 03:40:09 PM
Just had a short email from Isabelle at Hachette UK, she says they are looking into all the points raised from the German letters as a matter of urgency and will be in touch again once the detail has been fully investigated.

Short n sweet but and at least they the matter taking it seriously ;)

Got any matches Anmo? ;D

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 21, 2007, 03:44:29 PM
just looked on the two general bismarck information sites


General Bismarck information: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/
 "            "            "        : http://www.kbismarck.com/

and there is nothing about the current aligations of accuracy problems. I would have thought dirk et al would have posted on there to make everyone who is intersted in the Bismarck aware of what he has found. They are the two main Bismarck interest sites on the planet.

At least its good Hachette is acting quickly.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 21, 2007, 04:18:09 PM
I agree they seem to be the top German Bismarck sites but the Hachette kit does not even appear on the list of Bismarck kits available no does it appear in any reviews or build articles, though I have come across a build on the forum of the K Bismarck site which looks mighty similar, though a little confused as one minute it starts off as being 1:200 and then goes to 1:100 seen here http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=4062

You can use a translation site such as Google Language for a broken german text to get the jist of it.

All the same you would think that both sites have people that could advise on accuracy so yes it does seem a little odd why there is no mention ;)

Only time will tell if Hachette/Amati are acting quickly on this, talk is afterall cheap :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 21, 2007, 08:48:49 PM
It would be intersting to see what the two specialist sites say, I will register with one and ask. I wonder why the guy Dirk has gone quiet after making such as fuss.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 21, 2007, 09:03:24 PM
Good idea ;)

Maybe the X-men have got to him ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 22, 2007, 08:23:03 AM
Well well well, if you guys care to look at the buildthebismarck.co.uk forum under General Discussion in the Reaction from Amati topic the photos of the inaccuries have finally been posted, am gonna carefully checkut the info ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 22, 2007, 08:59:21 AM
http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=generalbuild&thread=1182265787&page=2#1182461147
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 22, 2007, 09:13:05 AM
Thanks for that Martin as I did not want to carry the can regarding posting the pics ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 22, 2007, 09:29:25 AM
Now Amati has some explaining to do. A few questions however.

Portholes, OK scuttles. if we are getting these overlays they are very different from the real thing how did amati mess up the stern? Anchor position I am thinking of.

Is it possible these are preproduction overlays.

The vents above the bilge keels. Where did the plans origonate from? Semens the contractor changed the design of the turbines at the last minute, this may have affected the vents, was this dipected on the drawigns Amati used.

How did Amati authenticate the drawings they claim the kit was based on, Bismarck did undergo some design changes along the way from conception to launch. In wartime things change quickly.

Brass etching look ok, not the best I have seen but passable.

I assume Amati/Hachette are using more than one supplier for the parts, this may explain why some people are complaining their bits are too small or too large, builder error is another reason.


Now we have seen the pictures it would be interesting to get Hachette/Amati's view on the whole fiasco.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 22, 2007, 09:47:43 AM
Well there does now seem to be significant substance behind what the Germans are saying regarding inaccuracies, I suppose the main concern for the UK is are the very same points raised by them going to end up here too?

I suppose it depends if the parts have already been made in advance or what the cost might be to change the tooling etc, also will any changes compatible with the existing design?

My guess is that we will see the same here as the cost to change could easliy strip any profits and there is aslo a time factor as one the ball is roling on a partwork you cant just stop it for a few months to get it right.
i think it likely that Hachette will try and ride out the storm in the hope that many will simply accept the end result as it is rather than what was to be the case >:(

At the end of the day it is Amati who are to blame if the model is inaccurate, Hachette are only the publisher/seller, though responsiblity regarding how this series was marketed lies completely with Hachette and any entitlement to refund etc, so maybe there should be a little sympathy for Hachette as if the were advised this model was accurate then they can only go on what they have been told :-\

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 22, 2007, 11:45:31 AM
we have decided to get a neutrals view on how easy the kit appears to be so far to build. My nephew has built a simple tug. One I bought him from SHG and he is very pleased with it but thats as far as his moddeling goes. So armed with the instructions and the frame in front of him Sam asked him what he thought of it. Well he said what others have said its not that easy to build.

So once again the marketing gurus have gone full speed and hyped it up. It appears the partwork compaines never learn. One thing I am wondering is the inaccuracies with the Titanic did Amati correct them when they realeased the kit themselves? I think not and they let it go as is, cost of tooling etc is the most likly reason.

As anyone asked Amati how they authenticated the plans they claimed to use? I feel an e-mail comeing on!

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 22, 2007, 12:16:32 PM
What a partwork series needs is to appeal to as many people as possible, if you said it was only suitable as an intermediate kit then it would likely limit its sales, what there clever marketing depts do is to carefully provide enough hype about a series to attract as many buyers as possible, even if it is tongue in cheek statements that are a little wide of the mark, they call it good marketing I call it deceit ;)

A good example to use right now is that Taggart DVD series that has just been advertised on TV by DeAgiostini, one of my rely's is a Taggart nut and bought into it, the series is described as having full length episodes yet in reality the DeAgostini version of each episode has been cut down in length to suit there needs for why who knows?
This means that scenes and footage is missing against the original footage resulting in each DVD being short in run time by as much as 10-15 mins, so in effect they are not full length episodes, what does make me laugh is that the original episodes are currently being shown on ITV 3, so who is kidding who?

It does make you wonder about the Bismarck plans Amati used, does this also mean they may have a get out clause for what they have supplied as the kit?
Surely a plan exists for what they have supplied or could it be that the version supplied is based on a combination of plans?....Reason being there statement reads "reproduced from the original plans", this may suggest more than one plan may exist which I think it does or am I being too picky?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 22, 2007, 03:58:21 PM
I don't think you are being too picky, more than one set of plans were known to exist. on the web is a guy who calls his site 'the dreadnaught project' sorry I can't remember the exact url but I could find it whan I am home. Anyway, at the end of WW2 the russians did cart off a shed load of plans as a basis for improvements to their navy, they are now being realeased to the public. I don't know if Bismarck is amoungst them but most of the kriegsmarine is. I have seen scans of these and according to my friend here they look like the real deal.

Blomn & Voss shipyard was heavily bomed but some plans did survive, I know there are at least several in existance, Berlin, NMM, Carnegie etc. What i don't know is if any of these sets are complete and what issue? Has there were several re-thinks along the way did all of the plans in existance reflect the changes or just who it affected. Amati might have use an early set which was several amendment behind reality, but I would ahve thought they would have asked someone like Joesef Kaiser who wrote the historical blurb.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 22, 2007, 04:27:59 PM
You might well be right ;)

The DeAgsotini Hood kit had similar questions raised about its authenticity, it was shown having a Fairy Swordfish plane & catapult system, it transpired that were later removed in the ships life but the deagostini model was based on a plan at that moment in time.

Is this possibly a similar scenario we have here with the Bismarck I wonder?

Am no historian but no doubt it will have undergone many alterations in its life which is likely to have generated many plans, or have Amati married part of two different sets of plans possibly?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on June 22, 2007, 06:08:56 PM
I doubt if Bismarck uinderwent any major changes after completion - she wasn't afloat for long enough!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 22, 2007, 08:24:07 PM
judging by some of the ideas I have read on a couple of other forums neather will theirs! ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 22, 2007, 08:32:02 PM
 ;D ;D ;D could not have put it better myself ;D ;D ;D

I hope Hachette have there thick skins on next week as by Weds I will be on there case for some answers, they may want to stick there heads in the sand but they cant hide ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 22, 2007, 09:05:31 PM
Amati would have done well to contact these people, they went to Blomn & Voss to inspect the original plans and builders model.

http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/product.asp?content_area=3&sub_area=11&product_area=59

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 23, 2007, 10:55:20 AM
I cant wait to hear of what version of plans Amati have used, something tells me that all is not how it seems here ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on June 23, 2007, 08:23:26 PM
the vents if one looks are the same on both sides of the ship it is obvious both cut to the sane template  or program y do two when one will do.Just do one and hope you can get away with it on the other hand the only people to know for shorer are the men that cut them. 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 23, 2007, 09:48:30 PM
The vents are cooling ducts for the engine rooms machinery and as Bismarck had three engines then the cooling ducts should reflect this, by that I mean they should be different on one side as shown in the 'drawing' in this link.

http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=generalbuild&action=display&thread=1182265787&page=2

Semens who supplied the turbine machinary changed theri mind at the last minute, the question we are asking Amati is where did they get the 'original plans' from they mention in the pull out of issue one. If they used the first draft then the vents has shown could be correct. The first draft intended electric propulsion. But technology wasn't that far advanced to make the design relyable so turbines was installed at the last minute. This would entail changes in the cooling circuit, but what those changes were I don't know. Blom & Voss has some plans but others exist but what I am trying to find out is how accurate are they to the vessel which we see at the bottom of the Bay Of Biscay.

It does look as though they used one set of tooling but in the picture is a drawing of what is claimed the vents are supposed to look like. How do we know which version is correct the drawing or the wooden overlay, are they both wrong, are they both correct but depict electric proplsion or turbine as in the final vessel. Until Amati makes thier position clear as to what 'original plans' they used we have to guess.

I have sent an e-mail to ThyssenKrupp Marine systems who own Blom and Voss to ask what plans they have and if they could tell me if amati as used them. IF i get a reply i'll post it on here, but don't hold your breath.

Daryl

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 24, 2007, 09:09:10 AM
Very well put Daryl, not a great deal to ad other than Amati had better come clean PDQ ;)

The german guy says in germany they have still have not recieved the Hachette RC pack yet, talk about very late in the build as they are at issue 43, I cant wait to see the hack job Hachette suggest and the UK wont see the RC packs until way after Xmas :o

No wonder why they are all doing there own thing re running gear, its looking like a right back to front build we have looming in the distance >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 25, 2007, 04:36:51 PM
Seems Amati/Hachette France are running silent and dont want to respond to the germans re the inaccuracies/problems, same here for us with Amati & Hachette UK.
Plan to give Hachette until the middle of the week then its Mr Angry time as it is ultimately Hachette who need to sort this matter out and with a sense of urgency >:(

They can run but they cant hide ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 25, 2007, 09:12:44 PM
At last I have a reply from Amati, in fractured english but you will all get the gist of it.

Dear Mr Dobbs,

thank you for your enquiry about Bismarck model.

We bought plans to the Blohm and Voss in Germany and we had also some  books about the model and pictures of the real ship.

Concerning the only mistake we made we note the position of the  anchor post and in fact (after inserting spacer on the back) the  anchor stays lower.

Concerning portholes (turbines water passage) on the bottom of the  hull we note different position also in the Blohm and Voss drawings.
May be on some plans this water grates are different.
Anyway please note that we made a model to show it to modelers (first  issue) and no complaints was made about this position.

Concerning portholes please note we'll give printed templates to  complete lateral holes in issue 53-54 together with photo-etched parts.

I understand a lot of plans are on the market and every plans may be  different from the other.

Please feel free to contact us about any problem.

Best regards

AMATI SpA

Well there you have it, not from sergio this time and what looks like a standard letter.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 25, 2007, 09:21:15 PM
just had this reply from one of the specalist Bismarck forums regarding the location of original plans.

Hello Daryl

There are drawings of Bismarck in the hands of private collectors. The archive in Frieberg Germany has about 300 drawings of Bismarck, most are produced by the German navy. These drawing were sent out to the various ship yards for them to work from. There are several drawings from manufactures on the various pieces of equipment used on Bismarck.

It is possible that the company you speak of managed to find other drawings, but it is hard to say.

Regards

Jack Brower

For those who don't know Jack Bower wrote the book Anatomy of the Ship Bismarck. the company I spoke of was amati.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 26, 2007, 08:13:44 AM
Regarding the reply from Amati....

It stinks >:(

Just because they showed the model to 'other modellers', who as it happens did not spot the obvious mistake re anchor placement, or if they did then Amati did not change the design for the national/ world launch and it also does not mean the model is ok.

This is what I said about them saying the kit was 'reproduced from original plans', it leaves the door wide open to them to reproduce any version they like, what we dont know is which version this kit is.

Take it you have responded your thoughts as it seems they want to wash there hands of this, maybe direct it to Sergio or that Sara Marletti this time or even have a go at Hachette UK?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 26, 2007, 08:41:26 AM
Oh yes a reply is on its way, they must think we were born yesterday. I don't think their letter has answered any questions just raised more.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 26, 2007, 11:00:40 AM
Amati has chosen to reply only to the question of what books they used, they have ignored the other questions I asked. here is their reply.

Good morning,

please refer to the following books:

Schlachtschiff Bismarck Das modell- Josef Kaiser - by SIMONFREY VERLAG
Schlachtschiff Bismarck Das original im detail- Josef Kaiser - by  SIMONFREY VERLAG

The Battleship Bismarck - Jack Brower - Anatomy of the ship - Naval  institute Press

Best regards

AMATI SpA

No surprises with that list.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 26, 2007, 11:18:57 AM
Hmm interesting, it does make you woder if Kaiser was one of the people they showd this ship to?

But I see still no photos of the ship they used to reproduce this model, a closely guarded secrret it seems or possibly are the photos the talk of within the books mention?


I have just had a very speedy response from Isabelle at Hachette UK, again shot & sweet as follows:

"They are currently investigating the problems with there production manager"


Though should they not be investigating this directly with Amati or is that what she means?

So it does seem that Hachette UK are taking this matter seriously from the UK's point of view and hopefuly will address all points without being murky, here's hoping anyway ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 26, 2007, 11:21:47 AM
yes I think Kaiser probibley was as he wrote the historical blurb and the photo credits are his, well most of them.

I wonder what Germany knows.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 26, 2007, 11:56:28 AM
I wonder, are the black & white photos in the mag of the Bismarck are of the same version of the ship we are to get, I suspect not ???

I wonder if it is worth trying to contact Kaiser for his version of the tale so that way we themn may know for sure?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 26, 2007, 12:19:27 PM
I was hoping he (JK) might reply to my posts on the two Bismarck forums, the chap who posted about the position of the bilge keels has not replied yet.

I agree contacting JK is agood idea.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 26, 2007, 12:27:48 PM
We need to some how be directed to the plans that Amati used and no reason why Amati should not come clean on this, this is the only way we will prove this one way or the other :-\

Having said that if it turns out the supplied model replicates the plan set Amati have other than the anchor issue then who is right and who is wrong,s in effect they would have fulfilled there side of the bargain in suplying a model reproduced from original plans but god only knows which set or which version ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on June 26, 2007, 03:18:56 PM
Martin,

It would seem that you have come to a sudden stop, have you given up or are they still mucking you around, what you have built looks good so far, good luck with it....



Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 26, 2007, 04:33:57 PM

No not stopped.... yet!
I nailed on parts 7 & 9  and will post up the pictures before the end of the week.

Parts 10 & 11 are a different story.... planking!  :P

Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 26, 2007, 05:03:40 PM
You did say planking didnt you ;)

Am very adept at planking ;D ;D

Keep it up Martin your is the best build out the UK forums that exist ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 27, 2007, 12:56:16 PM
Martin- glad to see the build is progressing, the best one on the internet.

the two reinforceing bits at the extreme end of the stern on our version needs to be beveled to make the planks sit on them. we didn't notice an indication of that in the instructions, can be difficult to do if left to late.

I like the batteries on the bow ours did the same thing until we weighted it down and streightened it out.

Daryl
PS Wot no centre prop shaft ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keep up the build very interesting, have you had any parts beyond 12 we are waiting for 12 to ??? plus apparently a dvd of David Mearns expedition.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 27, 2007, 12:59:32 PM
Ditto what Daryl has said, issue 18 dropped thru the lettbox this morning, it appears no delays via newsagents ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on June 27, 2007, 03:10:39 PM
Is that Bradders weighing down the keel ?
Judging by what he is wearing you are obviously about to stir some more paint. ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 28, 2007, 02:13:00 PM
Well its all coming out now on the buildthebismarck.co.uk forum :o

It appears Amati & Hachete have some serious questions to answer about the accuracy & build related issues of this kit, it beggars belief it really does :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 29, 2007, 11:36:45 AM

I notice on www.buildthebismarck.co.uk  there is a visitors Special Offer - "Anatomy of the Ship: The Battleship Bismarck available at a discount to readers of this web site."

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on June 29, 2007, 11:54:25 AM
Amazon has the book cheeper and so do one or two other retail outlets and the reviews of it on epinions and Amazon only give it 2 stars. The link below is for the Amazon page £21 inc free delivery post office permitting.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battleship-Bismarck-Anatomy-Ship-Brower/dp/0851779824

Daryl

Slightly moderated
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 29, 2007, 12:10:21 PM
Epinions slate the book saying the greatest warship of all time deserves better than this.


Slightly moderated
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 30, 2007, 10:11:42 AM
Right guys here is the low down........

Germany have highlighted two very different sets problems with this model:

1 - Its Accuracy

2 - Build problems


Accuracy -

Germany are currently at issue 43, but have previews sent via Amati for what is to come for up to issue 51.
The current accuracy points seem to be as follows:
The position of the Anchor pocket is wrong
The Cooling Ports have the incorrect in number
The number of Bulley's are wrong.

Not forgetting in actual build terms Germany are only at issue 43 out of 140 issues, so there are likely to be more problems yet to surface, the UK is at issue 18.

Amati so far have only admitted one error the Anchor pocket, they appear to be dismissive re comment on Ports or Bulley's, they have not noted how the Anchor problem is to be corrected if at all.

So far we are unable to prove one way or the other as to the accuracy probelms as to who is right or wrong on these points other than the obvious mistake of the Anchor.

Build problems -

Germany say part 43a is too narrow to allow smooth transit of the planking and also the resin parts being supplied for both the Bow & Stern are wrongly dimensioned, this is because when the 2nd Hull planking is applied it in effect is then too high for the resin parts - Amati advise to cover over the resin parts with planks to level the height which seems ludicrous!

I may have the answer regarding this, bear in mind first that in this model we have two versions, static display and RC.
I did read somewhere that with one layer of the Hull planking it makes the scale of the Hull correct in width etc which indicate's the correct design for the static version.
But once the 2nd Hull planking is applied (assuming this is for strength of the RC version) it throws out the scale of the Hull because it obviously makes the Hull slightly wider and also cause's the resin parts to be undersized!

My thoughts on this are that this model was only designed a static display model, in which case there will not be a problem with resin parts if you apply only one layer of Hull planking which I suspect is the original intention before the RC version came along.
But then come's along Hachette who say can you also RC this model, this seems the fatal error, the resin parts for Bow & Stern have not been scaled up to meet the 2nd application of planking hence why the complaints from Germany that the resin parts are wrongly dimensioned. - Amati advise to lay planking across the resin parts to make them the right height!!

So form your own opinions, but in my view unless Amati either supply two versions of resin parts (Static & RC) both builds will have the exact same problem, unless that is Amati tell static builders not to apply the 2nd planking which will cure there problem, but obviously not the RC version unless the resin parts are re-dimensioned.
Alll we can hope for is that the problem has been sorted one way or another before the parts land in the UK, though the planking is already underway and the build for the majority marches on, I'am holding fire at issue 10 until the outcome of what Hachette/Amati have to say re UK parts.

Already it is too late for Amati to change/increase the size of the Stern resin part for the UK as this item has already been supplied.

I'am expecting further advice from Hachette UK shortly which will hopefully address the list of points raised and if all have been addressed in particular for the UK which is obviously our concern, I will of course post what they say on here for all to see.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on July 01, 2007, 08:36:39 PM
Hi Martin, I have only built wooden boats and from my limited experience you are doing a damn good job. Did I see some cling film on the bench during some of the gluing? I assume this is to stop the whole thing accidently attaching itself to the bench. I can think of a couple of times when I wish I had thought of that.  I am glad I did not start this model as my bench would not be long enough and the thought of the reaction to a Bismark glued to the top of the kitchen table does not bear thinking about. Good luck with the planking - hours of fun there. Are you going to use a plank bender or steam and hope? Cheers Graham.  :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 01, 2007, 10:05:52 PM
Hi Graham,

Just spent what seemed like hours sanding the corners of the ribs, that was fun for about ten minutes.  :P
I must admit I'm not at all concerned about the accuracy of the model ... as anyone who has seen any of my models will testify.
I've built a couple of dozen model kits in my time, (never scratch built) and so far every kit has needed "adjusting" in one way or another, I don't suppose this Bismarck kit will be at all different!  "An accurate scale model" is still correct statement ... it just doesn't say how accurate it is!

Personally all I want  out of this build is:
1. A big all grey battleship.
2. I has guns on it
3. It looks mensing when it slowly turns towards you ( rotating gun turrets )
4. It floats!
And 3 out of 4 will do for me!!!   ;)

.... which is the bow end again?  ::)

Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 01, 2007, 11:12:11 PM
3 out of 4 might be optomistic, and there is a rib in the way of Anton and Dora turrets if the measurements are correct.

Also I have reason to beleive that the turrets are solid resin. Weight is another factor, the superstructure is to be covered in brass etch, the wood underneath is reputed to be 4mm thick. Amati has NOT disclosed the weight of this dispite reapeated requests from myself and Down Below, this brings a large question mark over the stability. We don't know if they have a floating working model or is it just theroy that it floats the right way up at the correct waterline. Why Amati refuses to comment on the total weight who knows. This question is out of bounds.

Weight is an unknown factor with this model as we don't know whats comeing up, are any of the fittings white metal? Hachette/ Amati won't answer that question. We have a long way to go to the end of this and it would helpful for people who know what they are doing or think they do to know the total weight as it would help for trimming, roatating turrets and all the other gizmos that appear on these models. Hachette and Amati won't say what the finnished weight is, we can guess but that is all it is a guess. As this was designed as a static model and r/c an afterthought then top weight would not have been considered when chooseing the materials to make the thing out of.

If we trust the blurb that came with issue 1 the battery is a 4.2ah SLA, this must weigh aroung 800gr to 1kg + motors etc. The total weight should be around 12kg, with the previews I have seen so far which is upto 51 out of 140 then stability might be an interesting problem when we get to the end.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 02, 2007, 08:10:07 AM
Martin

I'am pleased to hear that you are building the model as supplied which will hopefully also show up the inaccuracies.
When push comes to shove at least those who want to press the inaccuracy issue will then have a high profile professional build they can use to bounce off Hachette/Amati when time comes.

I agree there Will those who dont care about accuracy, but for those who do then it is only right we get both Hachette & Amati to comment.

One point I will make is that it is quite apparent with the 2nd planking applied a lot of unnecessary work will have to be carried out to make the resin parts C&D sit correctly, for those building the static version there appears to be no valid reason to apply the 2nd planking and therefore removing the unnecessary work with the resin parts and them also fitting perfectly it would seem.

With the first planking applied the hull is in scale, with the 2nd planking it is out of scale and there the problems start with hull resin parts, that to me is clearly a bad design error and quite obvious that this model was only ever intended as a static model.
It does also make one wonder if the RC cersion has been water tested, as Daryl points out weight could well be issue too.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 04, 2007, 12:24:48 AM

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200125678937&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BID_Stores_IT&refitem=200125678478&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 04, 2007, 05:17:39 PM
Nice idea but how many of thier so called free builds have ever been finished,well lets think a m8 of mine started to collect th bits from the same company to build the subaru rally cart what  happened after x no of issues it was stopped I REST MY CASE
Totally untrue as the series ran its course to 55 issues ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on July 05, 2007, 12:26:33 AM
Martin Just a question about the planking, Does it tell you to have all the joints on one bulkhead ? its just that the norn would be to stager the joints ,that way its a lot stronger, and essayer to keep the flow of the hull

peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 05, 2007, 12:32:34 AM

Part 11 & 12  uploaded:

 http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg46284#msg46284

Parts 13 - 16 arrived today too!  :)


All planks are but jointed in a straight line along double ribs. I thought it strange but the hull is turning out to be very strong and it will be double planked later anyway, I just hope they have the foresight to overlap the joints! But I'm going to build as per instructions... which involves a lot of tough biting!  :P

 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 05, 2007, 08:51:21 AM
The build is looking great!

Agree with the query on staggering the 2nd layer of planking, do you plan to stagger for the 2nd layer even though the mag may advise to butt again?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 05, 2007, 09:27:54 AM

Yep! Gonna build by the book!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 05, 2007, 12:03:14 PM
Its going to be a very interesting build ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 06, 2007, 06:14:15 PM
hi folks!

i'm the german guy everyone was talking about earlier in this thread concerning those drive sets.
i think is's time to clear the air:

1. i'm not a professional seller, just a bismarck builder trying to help other people
2. yes, i make a little money selling those sets, but it's not much if you take a closer look at the prices - shipping the packet to UK (17 euro) is paid by me
3. my hull is already sealed, her maiden voyage was successful
4. the price corrections were necessary after i sold some items cheaper than i paid for them
(example:  sold props for 40 euro, cost me 39 euro + 10 euro postage...)
5. the titanic converted to r/c was the one from mantua models in 1:200, not from amati
7. i'm not working for lassek, i just order props/rudders there and send them to UK

i know that building in a 3-motor-setup is not for the faint hearted, but who manages to plank the hull should also be able to get the motors in. absolute beginners should begin with an easier ship, not with a wooden partwork.
i already ran my bismarck, additional 2kilos were necessary to give her a good draft. she lies very stable in the water, even when turning - although i must admit there is still some superstructure to come.
of course i support all guys having bought drive sets via email or in the .co.uk forum if they encounter any problems
the reason for not-posting anymore in german forums is simply the amount of faultfinders there
i don't think that my way of motorizing the bismarck is the only right one, but i do think that it's by far better than the offered one from hachette

hope i pointed out everything

cheers

markus

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 06, 2007, 06:25:36 PM


Hi Markus and welcome to the Mayhem!

How will you be selling the motor sets, only on ebay, or how can we order direct?
Also, do the motor sets come with props, shafts, couplings and motors?
What about spare props?
Left and right handed props?


I will be ordering a 2 motor set ( I'm very faint hearted!  :-[ )

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 06, 2007, 07:54:51 PM
hello!

first of all:

i didn't start posting here to sell more drive sets than usual
i just wanted to post my opinion to previous messages which i partly found a bit unfair - i never intended to push unexperienced modelers to buy my 3-motor-setup and leave them alone afterwards.
as far as i'm informed all buyers of that 3-moter setup (uk and germany) managed to install it, although some of them had quite radical methods to cut the keel plate for the 3rd shaft

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

of course you can buy them direct, this is also my favourite due to expensiveness of ebay.de
these sets come complete with all your mentioned parts, motors are already mounted in bracket
the sets contain 2 left and 1 right handed prop (nylon)
if desired i can deliver you 3 spare props without further costs
so this set can be yours for 60 euro when transferring to my bank account. paying via check is more expensive due to bank charges
you'll find more details in the .co.uk forum, just drop me an email

cheers

markus


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 06, 2007, 09:33:15 PM

Justad a quick go at the bow planking... does this look right? ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: PSSHIPS on July 06, 2007, 09:49:41 PM
Martin, if I was building that I would plank from keel up , top down won't be too good in my experience of plank on frame, just my thoughts, my plank on frames are a bit bigger normally. Its the way I would do it anyway.
 I hope this helps. :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: John W E on July 06, 2007, 10:03:42 PM
Hi ya Martin

PSShips has already said, start from the keel and work up at least 5 planks from the keel, that is 5 planks either side of the keel and remember to stagger your joints - e.g. - if you put a join on a plank on say frame 6, the next row of planking you put on must be staggered either one frame forward or one frame aft, e.g. say jointed on frame 5 or jointed on frame 7.  What you must avoid are all the joints on the same frame - one after another as is shown on your photograph.

Hope this is of some help.    If I wasnt in the sulks over not being able to get to Weymouth show I would put a pic on to show you.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 06, 2007, 11:20:23 PM
yes, this looks alright
starting planking at the keel is not a good idea because this will make it almost impossible to get a good recess on both sides of the hull
planking from deck to kell gives you also the opprtunity to screw the flat keel on a jig while planking both sides
some of us in germany planked without jig which resulted in a warped hull

here's how the recess looks when finished:

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/hull-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: PSSHIPS on July 06, 2007, 11:31:18 PM
Planking from the keel is the way its been done for hundreds of years!



Slightly moderated !
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 06, 2007, 11:52:14 PM
Planking from the keel is not a good idea? Its the way its been done for hundreds of years?
 I fear another "numpty " attack comming on ??? ??? ???

this is why i said '..not a good idea'

pic1:
how will you get thecorrect height for the recess when planking from keel to deck?
this will make it necessary to modify the first plank under the recess

pic2:
if you take a closer look at the shape of the hull you will notice the keel is flat - the deck rises slowly towards both ends
this makes it easy to screw the keel on a jig and start planking from deck to keel

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/Bild-97.jpg)

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/Bild-112.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 07, 2007, 09:21:15 AM


I'm building my Bismarck "as per instructions" ... something not natural to me!  ::)
The instruction say, "First plank at the top."
I've also seen on the German builder sites that most builders are screwing the whole thing down with metal brackets!  ... not me!  :o

I'll be going around afterwards with a fine water sprayer, damping down the hull and twisting it back into shape... or lots of filler!  ;)


Markus, what's that stick of dynamite polystyrene  in the centre of you hull??!??

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 07, 2007, 09:36:03 AM
Hi Marki

A nice looking build you have there, I agree with your comments on this model not being recommended as a first wooden ship project and your spot on about the need for experience to install 3 motors and all it involves.

I'am curious, what exactly do you mean when you say your model is sealed and had a successful maiden voyage?

In your last photos the resin bow is not in place and the prop shafts/props do not appear to have been secured, also the hull outer & inner skin's appear to be bare wood, what did you use to seal the hull inner/outer surface's to make this maiden possible?

John
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 07, 2007, 09:45:20 AM


I'm building my Bismarck "as per instructions" ... something not natural to me!  ::)
The instruction say, "First plank at the top."
I've also seen on the German builder sites that most builders are screwing the whole thing down with metal brackets!  ... not me!  :o

I'll be going around afterwards with a fine water sprayer, damping down the hull and twisting it back into shape... or lots of filler!  ;)


Markus, what's that stick of dynamite polystyrene  in the centre of you hull??!??



hello martin

the 'stick of dynamite' are 6 cells 9000mAh soldered together
the polystyrene cover has 3 functions:
1. keeping the cells in the middle of the hull
2. cells can pushed in horizontal direction (adjustable ballast)
3. hopefully prevents the ship from sinking if water comes in

don't get me wrong, martin - but...

after reading the post '..numpty attack..' i'm playing with the thought of stopping posting in this forum

cheers

markus



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 07, 2007, 09:59:17 AM
Hi Marki

A nice looking build you have there, I agree with your comments on this model not being recommended as a first wooden ship project and your spot on about the need for experience to install 3 motors and all it involves.

I'am curious, what exactly do you mean when you say your model is sealed and had a successful maiden voyage?

In your last photos the resin bow is not in place and the prop shafts/props do not appear to have been secured, also the hull outer & inner skin's appear to be bare wood, what did you use to seal the hull inner/outer surface's to make this maiden possible?

John


the hull is already double planked and sealed
for sealing i used 'glattfix' from graupner, i applied it once on the inside and 4 times on the outside.
now the outside is totally even and waterproof
the pics are not actual, by the time bow part is mounted, outer profshafts are glued in, only the outer supports are missing
so i went to a near lake and put her with 2 cola bottles into the water.
now i can say that lassek props are well balanced, but she's a bit slower than with the nylon props

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on July 07, 2007, 11:18:58 AM

... after reading the post '..numpty attack..' i'm playing with the thought of stopping posting in this forum

cheers

markus

Keep up the good work Markus!

Lass dich nicht von den ewig Gestrigen ärgern und vor allem lass solchen Leuten nicht kampflos das Feld hier  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 07, 2007, 11:51:49 AM



Hi Markus, sorry about that. The forum is a bit of a free-for-all and member can have pretty rigid ideas about certain things.
I hope you will stick with us on this forum.... I need all the help I can get with the Bismarck build!
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?

Do You have your own website?

Martin.

PS. Thanks Jan..... I have no idea what that said but I'm sure it was something positive.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 07, 2007, 12:01:22 PM



Hi Markus, sorry about that. The forum is a bit of a free-for-all and member can have pretty rigid ideas about certain things.
I hope you will stick with us on this forum.... I need all the help I can get with the Bismarck build!
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?

Do You have your own website?

Martin.

PS. Thanks Jan..... I have no idea what that said but I'm sure it was something positive.


let's wait and see
no, don't have the time to run an own site

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 07, 2007, 12:15:26 PM
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on July 07, 2007, 12:23:22 PM
Just a small hint when you do start to sand use a block of wood, I use self adhesive paper but thats because I have problems holding but it makes it easier, or just wrap it around the block , It stops you getting "voids" and makes it flow without hollows, you will have to do some by hand but have a straight edge handy to check its flat.   

unless it says different in the instructions.

Peter

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 07, 2007, 12:46:25 PM
Marki

Any chance of a photo of your build up to issue 43 just so we can see what to expect by that stage?...we are only at issue 19 in the UK

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 07, 2007, 01:08:32 PM
Marki

Any chance of a photo of your build up to issue 43 just so we can see what to expect by that stage?...we are only at issue 19 in the UK

Thanks

John

of course:

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/othersframe.htm (http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/othersframe.htm)

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 07, 2007, 01:12:42 PM
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?

sanding is done after hull is completely planked
the second planking has different measurements, so offset is given

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 07, 2007, 01:26:07 PM
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?

Hi Martin,

Sand the first planking once it's completed.  You want a well finished surface to apply the second layer planking to.

By the way, I've finally received my latest issues and have made a start on the planking.  www.buildthebismarck.co.uk

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on July 07, 2007, 02:36:42 PM
Just a small hint when you do start to sand use a block of wood, I use self adhesive paper but thats because I have problems holding but it makes it easier, or just wrap it around the block , It stops you getting "voids" and makes it flow without hollows, you will have to do some by hand but have a straight edge handy to check its flat.   

unless it says different in the instructions.

Peter


Peter is right, If you're sanding something like a planked hull, you will NEVER get a good result, without high & low spots and rounded-off corners, unless you use a sanding block. I use a hard rubber block for larger areas, something with a little 'give' in it is better than wood as it follows the contours of the hull better. You should only use hand held abrasive paper (very carefully) on fairly sharp curves, and I often make contoured blocks from balsa for jobs like these. Another advantage of using a proper sanding block to support the paper, is that you'll remove a lot less material in achieving a flat surface, you're only going to sand the raised areas not the hollows, which is what you want to achieve . Using hand held paper without a block has a name in some trades, it's called 'finger-f*cking', because that's what you'll do to whatever you're working on.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on July 07, 2007, 03:14:12 PM

 

Martin.

PS. Thanks Jan..... I have no idea what that said but I'm sure it was something positive.


Hi Martin,

it is one thing to have a rigid opinion but its a totally different way to communicate this opion. We have only the written words here, so better thing twice before posting.  ;)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 08, 2007, 12:34:22 PM



I had a look last night to try to find pictures of the German Titanic but couldn't find any. I wonder if he got it to work, I ahve only seen a couple of R/C Titanics one at 1/144 and the Weymouth model at about 3-4 ft long, both were a bit unstable when turning and both owners didn't sail them when it was choppy. Titanic does not seem to convert to r/c well with a narrow beam.

Daryl

do you mean this one in 1:200 ?
pics unfortunately show her in not finished condition, BEFORE converting to 3-motor-setup

(http://www.bismarck-modellbau.de/pubimg/titanic1.jpg)
(http://www.bismarck-modellbau.de/pubimg/titanic2.jpg)
(http://www.bismarck-modellbau.de/pubimg/titanic4.jpg)
(http://www.bismarck-modellbau.de/pubimg/titanic5.jpg)



markus

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on July 08, 2007, 02:49:50 PM
I like that Markus, really good, especially the last picture, best 'lit up ship' shot I've ever seen, we need more proper modellers contributing to this forum. Puzzled why you put smoke in that 4th funnel though, I suppose you know that it was only a ventilator on the full size Titanic?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 08, 2007, 04:43:03 PM
I like that Markus, really good, especially the last picture, best 'lit up ship' shot I've ever seen, we need more proper modellers contributing to this forum. Puzzled why you put smoke in that 4th funnel though, I suppose you know that it was only a ventilator on the full size Titanic?

i know it was only a vent, but i liked the look of 4 steaming funnels...

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 08, 2007, 05:42:09 PM
Markus! Your MY kind of modeller!     Martin  ;D



i know it was only a vent, but i liked the look of 4 steaming funnels...
markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 08, 2007, 11:20:03 PM
Good hsots of the Titanic, ihave jsut returned from weymouth where I had the chance to talk to a guy who adapted the amati Titanic. How well does yours sail any pictures?. How much of the original hull did you use. Does it float on the waterline, how does it react to side winds? It looks like you only used 2 motors any reason why not 3.

The one I saw today had fibre optic scuttles and the centre keel was removed and the inside of the hull coated with fibre glass, He didn't sail it due the the wind conditions, in fact in turns with all 3 motors it does lean over dramaticaly. A good model but not a stable one, but reasonably quick.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 09, 2007, 07:54:30 AM
...and what do you have playing from the speaker  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 09, 2007, 08:01:20 AM
Good hsots of the Titanic, ihave jsut returned from weymouth where I had the chance to talk to a guy who adapted the amati Titanic. How well does yours sail any pictures?. How much of the original hull did you use. Does it float on the waterline, how does it react to side winds? It looks like you only used 2 motors any reason why not 3.

The one I saw today had fibre optic scuttles and the centre keel was removed and the inside of the hull coated with fibre glass, He didn't sail it due the the wind conditions, in fact in turns with all 3 motors it does lean over dramaticaly. A good model but not a stable one, but reasonably quick.

Daryl

these are the only pics, had to sell her after finishing due to financial problems :(
i used the complete hull as provided by mantua models
yes, it floated on waterline
yes, side wind and the titanic aren't good friends ;)
in the begining i was afraid of cutting the centre keel, that's why the 3 motors were fitted later (3 speed400 instead of 2speed500)

some weeks ago i began with a new titanic, this time with 3 speed500 ;D and 8 cells 9000mAh instead of 16 cells 4500mAh. this will put the main weight more to the middle.
also this time i won't use plexiglass for lighting the superstructure
hopefully these changes will result in a really stable model


markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 09, 2007, 08:14:26 AM
...and what do you have playing from the speaker  ;)

...the sound of a modified steam-loco sound generator.
this generator had an input contact to be mounted at the piston rod of a (electric) loco
so i connected a modified servo (without poteintiometer so i could turn freely) to the drive motor.
with a micro switch being triggered by the servo arm i had some kind of a mechanical 'voltage-depending-impulse-generator' for that loco module
sounded great !!

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 09, 2007, 10:17:38 AM
are you having another go at the Mantua kit, are you going to use all of their option packs as there have been questions over the accuracy of their parts. Are you going for their option 3 kit or doing your own thing. The guy I had a long talk to at weymouth mentioned it was not the best kit he'd seen but an eyecatcher.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 09, 2007, 10:45:42 AM
are you having another go at the Mantua kit, are you going to use all of their option packs as there have been questions over the accuracy of their parts. Are you going for their option 3 kit or doing your own thing. The guy I had a long talk to at weymouth mentioned it was not the best kit he'd seen but an eyecatcher.

Daryl

yes, started the mantua kit again
accuracy is a bit better than from amati's bismarck
the mantua kit is fantastic if you modify a bit here and there
some building steps are really nonsense and can be done better
also the original drive set with 2  540 motors mounted pretty high, driving the shaft via rubber band is rubbish

...almost sounds like amati, doesn't it ????

so i will buy the rest of the kits, except for the drive kit

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 09, 2007, 10:56:08 AM
The Mantua kit is a planked hull is it not?....do Mantua also sell a GRP full hull for this kit?

I cant think of many modellers that would want to tackle a 2nd exact same model after finding the first to be unstable, the Titanic in RC form seems to be well documented as being unstable in cross winds & turns, it will be interesting to see if your modifications sort out the inherent stability problems.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 09, 2007, 10:58:46 AM
compaired to rivitcounter.com or encylopedia titanica a lot of modifications are needed to both Amati and manuta to solve all the detail problems. excellent referance sources which can be verified independantly.

DAryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on July 09, 2007, 12:04:18 PM
Hi Martin. I think you are getting to be a real planker  ;) and it looks really good.  From my limited experience with a static Santa Maria and the recent St Canute it was planking down to the keel that worked for me. The real tricky/interesting/frustrating bit was tapering the planks at the bow and stern to fit correctly. Have you had to do any of that yet? Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 09, 2007, 12:26:49 PM
"Real Planker!" Good one Del Boy!   ;D

No not done any of the bottom planking yet..... not enough alcohol in the system yet! Not looking forward to it either......
I'm going to have another go at the bow planking this week.
Are there any recommended planking clamps, pins, tools that anyone can recommend?




Hi Martin. I think you are getting to be a real planker  ;) and it looks really good.  From my limited experience with a static Santa Maria and the recent St Canute it was planking down to the keel that worked for me. The real tricky/interesting/frustrating bit was tapering the planks at the bow and stern to fit correctly. Have you had to do any of that yet? Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 09, 2007, 12:37:03 PM
Have a look in here,

www.miskinmodels.com

Too much planking can make one go blind ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on July 09, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Hi Martin, I struggled with the wifes dress making pins, clothes pegs and whole,veriety of clamps as you have already tried but those on the Miskin site suggested by 'Down Below' look fantastic. I wish I had known about them before. Cheers Graham  :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 09, 2007, 09:00:38 PM


Hi Marki53.

I try find thous mantua's and amantis kit's at net, whitout any result. If u have any link to some online shop where they sold thous bismarck kit's, can u put them here? I didnt find anything at manufacturer's site.

-Herkko
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 09, 2007, 09:44:44 PM
Hi Graham,

I working on the bow planking at the moment, very tricky! :P
I've just ordered a set (10) of these off ebay.....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 09, 2007, 10:53:06 PM
herrko- the Bismarck kit by Amati is a part work sold in the Uk by Hachette, they intend to distribute it around europe over the next few months. Amati does not yet sell this kit them selves, each part available from newsagents or hachette cots £4.99 and runs for 140 issues.

if you would prefer to buld from scratch a Bismarck try www.fleetscale.co.uk or www.sirmarmodelships.com.
Kits are or will be available from Tamiya, Academy and Revelle at 1/350 scale.
Aeronaught do a kit but it is not that accurate.
Another supplier is from Italy is www.pinimodelli.com/navigazione/home.asp

Hope this helps
Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 10, 2007, 06:59:47 AM
http://www.mantuamodel.com/titanic/titanic.htm (http://www.mantuamodel.com/titanic/titanic.htm)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 10, 2007, 08:07:17 AM


Hi Daryl. Yes it helps alot. Thanks. =) I just think did i miss some amanti's new kit.

-Herkko


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 10, 2007, 08:18:49 AM
The Amati Titanic was a partwork series promoted by Hachette, you can now buy this as a full kit from Amati stockists.

I should imagine that when the Hachette/Amati Bismarck 140 week series nears its end Amati may then release this model as a full kit as this is what they did with the Titanic ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 10, 2007, 10:15:55 AM
Marki- did you manage to locate a grp hull for your Titanic or are you buuilding one of wood?

DAryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 10, 2007, 10:51:51 AM
Hi Martin,

Have a look at my site - week 11 to see these planking clamps in action.

www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/011.htm

Cheers
Mark

Hi Graham,

I working on the bow planking at the moment, very tricky! :P
I've just ordered a set (10) of these off ebay.....

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 10, 2007, 01:02:57 PM
Hence why recommended them ;)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 10, 2007, 02:52:53 PM
Marki- did you manage to locate a grp hull for your Titanic or are you buuilding one of wood?

DAryl

wood of course, doble planked

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 10, 2007, 03:24:57 PM
Hi marki,
would that cause problems in getting the deck and other bits to fit. Peter Hann does a 1/144 grp hull as its bigger it might be more stable. I thought the double planking would add extra weight were it is not needed above the waterline. Hasn't the mantua kit got a centre keel which goes up to the main deck level like the amti version?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 10, 2007, 03:42:14 PM
BTW. www.miskinmodels.com is now www.plankonframe.com (http://www.plankonframe.com)
 
John G - miskin models
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 10, 2007, 03:44:58 PM
Hi marki,
would that cause problems in getting the deck and other bits to fit. Peter Hann does a 1/144 grp hull as its bigger it might be more stable. I thought the double planking would add extra weight were it is not needed above the waterline. Hasn't the mantua kit got a centre keel which goes up to the main deck level like the amti version?

Daryl

no, fitting the deck isn't a problem with this kit.
the wooden hull hasn't much more weight than a 'plastic' hull
the centre keel lies at least 90% under the waterline, take a look at 'part 1' in the link i posted earlier in this thread

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 10, 2007, 03:53:44 PM
Yes I have found a link which shows the instruction sheets from a model shop in Cornwall. makes intersting reading. The keel does look high and their r/c gear sits on top, not sure I like that idea as it put weight up higher than nessessary.
www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/titanic.html

As for a wooden hull weighing the same as a grp hull, I have to disagree, unless the grp is paper thin and the wooden one is balsa. We have on here one of the UK's best GRP men Kayem, I am sure he would know the weight differences given the type and thickness of wood and grade of grp.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 10, 2007, 04:05:13 PM
Marki
Did'nt you say your post on the spec of your Titanic that you used the complete hull provided by Mantua, do you mean as in grp?.... as you now say it is double planked

The Matua detail says it is a single planked kit, so what I think Daryl is getting at is that by adding a 2nd layer of planks does this not cause a probem with the fit of other parts?

Double planking for the RC version has to be bette than a single plank was just wondering how you arrived at doing it as the matua kit is one I would consider if I bought a Titanic kit, presumably it is much better than the Amati one?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 10, 2007, 04:51:19 PM
Marki
Did'nt you say your post on the spec of your Titanic that you used the complete hull provided by Mantua, do you mean as in grp?.... as you now say it is double planked

The Matua detail says it is a single planked kit, so what I think Daryl is getting at is that by adding a 2nd layer of planks does this not cause a probem with the fit of other parts?

Double planking for the RC version has to be bette than a single plank was just wondering how you arrived at doing it as the matua kit is one I would consider if I bought a Titanic kit, presumably it is much better than the Amati one?

i think we both misunderstood us:
i used the original mantua parts to make a r/c version
this included a double planked hull, as described in their building instructions
so this kit is definetly double planked !!!!
yes, the mantua kit is definetly better than the amati kit, and more than 1 ft longer

if you intend to buy this kit, have a look at ebay.de by the end of the week
a friend of mine asked me to build his bismarck for him, of course as r/c model

i think building 3 models at once is a bit much, so i decided to sell my titanic hull kit with
3 speed500 motors 12V, cardan joints, prop shafts and brass prop for the middle drive

note the modified keel for the middle drive, was a lot of work to get the 3rd motor in.
i also modified some frames in the middle/fore end to mount 6 or 8 of those 9000mAh cells like i used for the bismarck

cheers

markus

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/tit1.jpg)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 10, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
Thanks for that Marki

Seems odd though as the Mantua detail site describes it as having a single planked hull

http://model-dockyard.com/mantua/mantua-kits.asp

Is the 2nd Titanic you are building now also a Mantua kit?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 10, 2007, 05:07:47 PM
yes, it's the mantua kit again

here you'll find instructions for the 2nd planking, see text in pic 74 from the first link

here the links to all building sets:

http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=549 (http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=549)

http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=556 (http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=556)

http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=563 (http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=563)

http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=582 (http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=582)

http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=594 (http://www.mantuamodelhelp.com/Article.aspx?ArticleId=594)

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 10, 2007, 05:16:26 PM
Thanks for tha, interesting info, its a shame Hachette did not use the Mantua kit instead of Amati's as it looks so much better ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: miskinmodels on July 10, 2007, 07:50:08 PM
As the supplier of the planking clamps I feel I must clarify one of the criticisms - namely that it is only possible to put on one plank an evening. I use a fast drying white wood glue (used to use Humbrol Extrarez until it dissappeared) and at normal room temperature it is sufficiently dry for the clamps to be removed in an hour.
With two sets of clamps I can work on both sides of the hull and plank at the rate of two planks an hour rather than one an evening.

Secondly looking at some of the photographs it seems normal for all the planks to join on the same frame. This is a potential weak point and a better and stronger hull can be achieved by planking brickwork fashion with alterate planks joining at adjacent frames.

John Gittins
miskin models
www.plankonframe.com
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 10, 2007, 09:04:58 PM


OH dear! This don't look good!  :'(    I'm gonna need a lot of filler and sand paper!

       .....someone tell me this is normal at this stage and it will get better..... Please!  :P
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 10, 2007, 09:13:45 PM
http://www.drydockmodels.com/planking/ Read that. It's hull planking for beginners. I think it helps little. That's guide that helps me at my first tall-ship build. Hope it helps.

-Herkko


Edit. And yes that looks normal. Well at least normal my build. But they all go fine at end. So no worry just sand it few days and put some putty and give more sandpaper to it =). Did u remember to put glue between planks?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on July 10, 2007, 09:41:59 PM
only ever done a few plank on frame hulls,so what do i know, but surely the ends of the planks should be stagered? it will make a much stronger hull, and shape better.
all the best, feeling youre going to need it.
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on July 11, 2007, 03:19:23 AM
Hi Martin, Er well yes something dosen't look quite right. I think it should be a bit smoother than that as it looks as if some of the edges are out of line perhaps because the plank is not sitting down on the former properly. 2 pins per plank at certain points might have helped. I have had much more glue around too in my planking and have only done 3 or 4 at a time. Anyway do not despair modern fillers are womderful stuff and I am sure a bit of filler will cure all. Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on July 11, 2007, 08:14:38 AM
Dear Mr Mayhem,

I represent the Post Office, and I've just received a report from one Mr A. Modelnut that some red rubber bands that are the property of Her Majesty's mail services are currently being used by you in the construction of a rather unpatriotic model sailing vessel of foreign origin. These rubber bands should be returned to their legal owner immediately, kindly wrap them in a £10 note and hand them to your local Postman. If you comply with these instructions, no further action will be taken.

Your obedient servant, Mr A. Letter (Chief P.O. Rubber band reclamation officer)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on July 11, 2007, 08:25:30 AM
Martin

 I would start to rub it down with one of these first , then go for a bit finner. He He

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 09:04:36 AM
Mornin' all !
I see the comedians are up early, alive and well !

Thanks Herby I'll look that up ( http://www.drydockmodels.com/planking/ ) but it doesn't appear to be working at the moment!  Not glued between the planks yet......... but I'll just check the instructions again!!!  ::)

Thanks Mr A .Letter, but I will be charging a small collection fee for picking up all the elastic bands on my street everyday!  ;)

Hi Colin, Butt joints, not staggering is what the instructions say (I'm buildings as per the book on this one... albeit, not very well maybe!)  :P

Thanks Peter, but I think I need to start the sanding with one of these:  ;D
   (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Beaver.jpg)




Seriously though, should I be thinking about lifting offthe bow planks and having another go?


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 11, 2007, 09:06:06 AM
But if you do this you will not then be building by the book as you say ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on July 11, 2007, 09:08:42 AM
as long as they are solid and will sand to the correct shape leave em,there is another layer to go on isn't there?

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on July 11, 2007, 09:22:20 AM
Let us know when you are ready for your filler Martin  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on July 11, 2007, 09:35:53 AM
as long as they are solid and will sand to the correct shape leave em,there is another layer to go on isn't there?

Peter

Martin, you weren't kidding when you told us you'd never done a plank on frame before, were you? Peter is right, but the most important word there is 'solid'. After the glue has set, do any of the planks move even slightly when you press on them? I hope you glued all the edges of the planks, not only where they sit, or from the pics apparently don't sit all that well, on the bulkheads, it looks to me as if you didn't. If there is any movement at all, you're going to have to apply thin cyano a drop at a time where the plank edges meet, until everything is solid, and you can't detect any movement anywhere. Then and only then, you have to sand everything smooth as a sound base for the second planking. The best way with what may be a slightly delicate structure would be fairly coarse abrasive, say #80, used on a block of course, and as little pressure as possible. I'd advise against using filler. If you have low areas too deep to sand out without removing too much from the adjacent planks, glue an additional bit of plank onto the low bit, and sand that down until everything is level, and if you have any gaps between planks, glue in small slivers of wood to fill them. Your Bismarck reminds me of what the Irishman said when a traveller asked him for directions. "Well sorr, if I wanted to get to there, I wouldn't be starting from here!"
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 09:42:36 AM
Quote
Butt joints, not staggering

But does that rule out staggering the butt joints Martin? The danger of butting them all on the same frame is not just that it gives a weak spot but it can also lead to a "corner" in the run of the hull which can be difficult to sand out as the curve of the planking is taking a sharp change in direction.

Still, one advantage in building in wood is that you can recover from almost anything - believe me, I know!

As Kayem says, you must get the whole structure solid before reaching for the abrasive. If the planks don't sit tightly against each other you will need a gap filling glue to tie them together but don't allow this to get on the upper surface of the plank otherwise it will weaken the bond when you put the second layer on.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on July 11, 2007, 09:45:59 AM
... one advantage in building in wood is that you can recover from almost anything - believe me, I know!

Very true, but you have to be more patient when working with wood, it isn't a material that takes well to being rushed.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 11, 2007, 10:01:15 AM
Mornin' all

Thanks Herby I'll look that up ( http://www.drydockmodels.com/planking/ ) but it doesn't appear to be working at the moment!  Not glued between the planks yet......... but I'll just check the instructions again!!!  ::)





Hmm the link is some how incorrect when i press it.. :S   Let's put it an old-scool way. Copy this addres don't click it.  http://www.drydockmodels.com/ (they site have some protection so no1 cant hotlink anything.) and then forums, at left side of site---> then at same side seek and deartoy HULL PLANKING and click it. Hope u find it

-Herkko
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 10:05:58 AM
Kayem, when you advised against using filler is that because the differing hardnesses between the filler and wood could lead to high spots when sanding down? If so, then what about using an easy sand filler such as P38 which is probably softer than the wood and would be easier to apply than glue between the planks? If it was a normal scratch build then application of resin to the inside of the hull would certainly stiffen it up - but not until the gaps in the planking have been sealed from the outside.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on July 11, 2007, 10:27:57 AM
Kayem, when you advised against using filler is that because the differing hardnesses between the filler and wood could lead to high spots when sanding down?

Partly that Colin, but I was also thinking about the adhesive that 'Bodger', sorry Martin, is going to use to fix the second layer of planking, if it's a wood adhesive of some kind, it won't stick to P-38. Don't know if the type of wood has been mentioned, but it looks as if it could be lime of some kind, which will sand fairly evenly with a polyester filler, though it really shouldn't be necessary to use any filler at this stage, unless there are big discrepancies in the plank runs. I hope Martin doesn't think we're all making fun of him, he's clearly needing skills that he hasn't had to employ before, but all the points we're discussing which seem very obvious to us, should have been covered in the instructions, can we take it that they weren't ? Surely they must have mentioned gluing all the plank edges and staggering the joints? I'd say it would be virtually impossible to achieve an even result doing it the way Martin has. I think I'll stick to scratch building, I can see that I'm not clever enough to assemble kits.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 11, 2007, 11:12:40 AM
No info in the mag about staggering the planking and all the build photos of the 1st layer of planking show Butt joints glued at each rib so all  joints run down each rib and are not staggered.

The mag says the model will in due course be covered with a second layer of strips. Any steps or small crevices between the strips can be corrected later.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 11, 2007, 11:25:20 AM
The mag does say glue all edges that touch. Yes the planks, ( I mean the bits of wood that fix to teh model not the builder ;D ;D) are lime.

There is a very good article in this site below about plank on frame building. Its a very good step by step tuorial which is far bette than teh instructions in the mag.

http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/portal.php

Daryl

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 12:08:00 PM


 Thanks Daryl....... more abuse......  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 11, 2007, 12:10:56 PM
Marki

Have you staggered the planking on your model, what do you think?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on July 11, 2007, 01:14:06 PM


 Thanks Daryl....... more abuse......  ;)

Maybe Martin, but all 'in a nice way', I hope.

Daryl was right about that step by step planking tutorial, very good indeed, but it's really aimed at modellers building proper plank on frame models, where they want all the craftsmanship to show, and the end result to look planked with lovely joints and contrasting wood grain everywhere. All that talk of tapered planks and stealers isn't very relevant to what you're trying to achieve here, where you want your model to look anything but planked, after it's been covered with a few coats of grey paint. You're trying to replicate a steel hull, not a wooden ship. I think I can see what the makers are trying to achieve by not staggering joints in the usual way, they are trying to simplify the planking process for modellers who may never have done anything like this before, but until we see the finished result, we aren't going to know whether they've got away with it or not.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 11, 2007, 02:15:18 PM
Heh that tutorail was same that i was trying to link here.  ;D I just try to link it at wrong site. My bad  :-[
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 02:54:34 PM

Just found the reference in the instructions,

12th issue, 9th step: "All the strips glued to each other and to all the relevant ribs."



... bit of an after thought then, thanks!  >:(


I'm going to use that deluxe materials super Aliphatic to glue the planks.
It's very thin and penertraiting -     http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 11, 2007, 02:57:53 PM
I think it is mentioned in the first issue and I thought they mentioned it in the first step in issue 11?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on July 11, 2007, 03:40:39 PM


I'm going to use that deluxe materials super Aliphatic to glue the planks.
It's very thin and penertraiting -     http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html



Looks like we're on something of a damage limitation exercise here. I'd suggest applying aliphatic glue along all the dry planking joints with a paintbrush, maybe thinning it down slightly with water first. Depending on how close your joints are, you may have to do this several times in places, but since the stuff is sandable, it won't matter if you get a bit on the surface. If you don't glue all the planking joints, especially in the second layer really well, there's a risk that over time you'll get cracks appearing through the paint surface as the joints expand & contract, and I bet that's something that Hatchette don't warn you about in their instructions. When you sand the hull, use a block that spans at least two or three bulkheads, fairly coarse paper and not much downward pressure, otherwise you'll just remove material at the bulkhead positions, also make a smaller convex block to finish the bows. I'll look forward to seeing your next photo report.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 11, 2007, 03:52:15 PM
Hachette recomends GAUZE BANDAGE soaked in PVA glue in the inside to strengthen the hull. This earth shattering idea comes in issue 18, as you read this try not to laugh to much ;D ;D ;D ;D They also think that by applying just paint on the outside it should be enough to waterproof it. Are you still going to build by the book Martin?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 11, 2007, 03:59:36 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 11, 2007, 04:24:13 PM
I forgot to add, the revolutonary idea of using waterproof glue didn't cross Amati/ Hachetts mind. This is I think Amati's first foray into the world of R/C boats and what a mess they are making of it.

I have reason to beleive that issue 21 will contain some interesting information, so perhpas it is not wise to rely on the previews of the issues Germany have received.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 11, 2007, 04:54:23 PM
Interesting commment.... what do you think is going to happen to the paint work and outer planking if the paintwork isn't waterproof ?

In my opinion (feel free to disagree) wooden hulls need to be waterproof, both from the outside in, and the inside out.  Get water soaking into the planking and the paintwork will crack and peel as the wood swells.  I would advocate using a waterproof glue (cause you can never guarantee that the inner and outer finishes will remain perfectly waterproof), varnishing the inside (cause you will always get some splashes inside), or resin coating, etc, and making sure that the outer hull does have a waterproof coating.

They also think that by applying just paint on the outside it should be enough to waterproof it. Are you still going to build by the book Martin?

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 11, 2007, 05:04:52 PM
I can't possibly comment on what is going to happen, to protect my sources of information, just keep an eye on the UK issues. This build is NOT for the novice builders as Hachette advertised.

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 11, 2007, 05:09:46 PM
I can't possibly comment on what is going to happen, to protect my sources of information, just keep an eye on the UK issues. This build is NOT for the novice builders as Hachette advertised.

Daryl

I don't quite see what you're reply has to do with what you might think is going to happen to the paintwork if the planking starts to absorb water ?????????
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 05:17:36 PM
Marki53, your hull looks songle planked in this picture, or is that an optical conclution!

Is it double planked here?
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/Bild-97.jpg)

How did you seal your hull for water testing?

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 11, 2007, 05:19:53 PM
Both question's already been asked by me and were replied to earlier in this thread, if you read what is coming out of Germany it seems Amati want us to plank over the Hull resin parts with the 2nd planking to level up ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 06:09:14 PM
Waterproofing? Well that's where I reach for the good old gum paper strip and shellac for a planked hull but I don't think that will feature in the instructions somehow. Pity, as it is good way of simulating hull plating as well as covering any tendency of the planking underneath to crack open. Takes a super finish too.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 06:18:30 PM
I don't know what the instructions will say but that's an idea I would like to try Colin.
( I would prefer to do a fibreglass tissue & finishing resin .... but I have a phobia about resin finishes... mainly because I've never done one before! )

Using the new planking clamps now... pictures later.


... gum paper strip and shellac for a planked hull .....  as it is good way of simulating hull plating as well as covering any tendency of the planking underneath to crack open. Takes a super finish too.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 11, 2007, 06:33:08 PM
As I undertand it Amati say the application of paintto the outer Hull skin is good enough to seal the Hull ;D ;D

The inner of the Hull is sealed by Gauze bandage (as in medical use) and the application of standard white PVA wood glue to bond it into place, some water seal ??? ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 11, 2007, 06:33:26 PM

The hull is completely double planked, even above the recess
the hull above the recess shall not be double planked as per instructions, but in this case i disregarded any building instructions ;D
so i bought planks in 1200mm length and made my own 2nd planking
i sealed the hull with an ugly smelling timber additive fron graupner, named 'glattfix'
this gave me a wonderful smooth, strong and waterproof hull

markus

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 11, 2007, 06:36:28 PM
its nice to know what is going to happen ;D ;D,  read carefully what Hachette send. Issue 21 is only the tip of the iceburg.  Still not long to wait.

I am not commenting on deviating from hachette's instructions just make sure you know what you and they are doing.
Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 06:39:39 PM
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/DSCN5655Small.jpg)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/DSCN5650Small.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 11, 2007, 06:46:17 PM
its nice to know what is going to happen ;D ;D,  read carefully what Hachette send. Issue 21 is only the tip of the iceburg.  Still not long to wait.

I am not commenting on deviating from hachette's instructions just make sure you know what you and they are doing.
Daryl

i know what i'm doing - but i'm not so sure about hachette ;D ;D ;D

if you follow their instructions for the 2nd planking, then you'll receive a wonderful ;) separation edge (between hull and deck) on the outside :o of the hull.
with my custom-made planking up to the deck this edge lies inside the hull, just where the deck veneer ends.
so this way of planking makes the edge invisible and more waterproof

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 07:00:31 PM
Martin, I've always favoured the gumstrip approach as it is easy to use. Resin and GRP tissue is fine but does require a lot more rubbing down. The beauty of gumstrip is that it shrinks very slightly as it dries to give a really smooth finish. You can use just water to stick it on but I prefer a weakish Cascamite (now marketed as Extramite) mix which effectively bonds the gumstrip to the wood hull with a waterproof seal. I then "paint" over it with shellac solution (button polish will do). It only needs a few very thin coats. Then you just rub down with very fine abrasive paper and finish with any paint you prefer. My Granada model (the white one) used laquer paint around 30 years ago, had several years hard regatta use and has spent the rest of its life in a case. No problems with the hull at all. My unfinished Brenda used Halfords acrylic spray paints over the shellac.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 11, 2007, 07:02:34 PM


Not sure ar we talking abought same thing but,

Best solution to avoid that huge crack, at shorter strips, is to cut them different leinght. Lets say that first strip is 40cm, second is 30cm, 3th is 20cm, 4th is 10cm and 5th is again 40cm, 6th 30cm and so-on... Only problem when u make full lenght strips is that front and end  have huge tension(is tension right word?) and middle at strip can rip of at bulkhead. Try avoid long strips. Specially at firts planking. If u plank second layer, whit thinner strips, this is not so big deal.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 11, 2007, 07:06:21 PM
Best solution to avoid that huge crack, at shorter strips, is to cut them different leinght. Lets say that first strip is 40cm, second is 30cm, 3th is 20cm, 4th is 10cm and 5th is again 40cm, 6th 30cm and so-on... Only problem when u make full lenght strips is that front and end  have huge tension(is tension right word?) and middle at strip can rip of at bulkhead. Try avoid long strips. Specially at firts planking. If u plank second layer, whit thinner strips, this is not so big deal.

i know - that's why i used those long strips only for the 2nd planking

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: herby on July 11, 2007, 08:04:32 PM
Best solution to avoid that huge crack, at shorter strips, is to cut them different leinght. Lets say that first strip is 40cm, second is 30cm, 3th is 20cm, 4th is 10cm and 5th is again 40cm, 6th 30cm and so-on... Only problem when u make full lenght strips is that front and end  have huge tension(is tension right word?) and middle at strip can rip of at bulkhead. Try avoid long strips. Specially at firts planking. If u plank second layer, whit thinner strips, this is not so big deal.

i know - that's why i used those long strips only for the 2nd planking

markus

Ye i thought so. Just want to say it  that no one else do it.  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on July 11, 2007, 08:42:18 PM
Any idea what this tool is Martin seems to use one a lot, He hangs it around his neck and I think it stops the glue from dripping on the table . any idea where you can get them.??????

Peter

He He
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 08:49:17 PM
I think it's some sort of radioactivity warning device... ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on July 11, 2007, 09:02:49 PM
For me this is the eveready automatic bench wipe. As you lean over the model to inspect the far side it automatically wipes any glue paint etc from the near side. I have also seen them in offices where the can function as a coffee/tea wipe.  :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 10:13:53 PM
Correct Captain Povey, my auto tea/coffee/gravy absorbing device.... one size fits all. Patent void.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 10:31:42 PM
So, if you lean over your coffee is it a cup tie?  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 11, 2007, 10:47:34 PM
.... Colin is on top form tonight!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 11, 2007, 11:22:20 PM
Yeah, got my new PC working - you're widescreen Martin!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 12, 2007, 11:36:24 AM
I have come across this statement from Hachette.

Hachette is currently investigating the points raised via the German & UK web forums but would like to stress that they work with one of the most renown model specialists in Europe, Amati.  Amati's experts have worked with original Blohm & Voss drawings as well as reference books to produce a very high quality 1:200 model.
 
Regarding the specific point raised about the anchor, Germany gives 2 pieces in issue 21 and 23 which allow you to easily position the anchor. This  approach is consistent with the level of details and accuracy you can expect for an 1:200 scale model. However, Hachette Partworks will offer an alternative option by giving an extra piece in issue 35, which can be used instead of the pieces given with issue  21 & 23, and which will make the model look even closer to the actual ship. All the information will be detailed with an insert in issue 21.
 
In the meantime, Hachette hopes you continue to enjoy building the model.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 13, 2007, 08:21:21 AM
It seems Amati/Hachette are listening :)

So we cant now assume that the german previews are what is coming to the UK as issue 35 now disproves that ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 13, 2007, 03:16:06 PM
Marki

Would you know if any more problems have come to light in the latest issues out in Germany?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 13, 2007, 03:30:57 PM
Marki

Would you know if any more problems have come to light in the latest issues out in Germany?

no, maybe because we're building 'only' the superstructure at the moment.
we only had missing parts in iss. 43 (hachette said: packing mistake ;D)
these shall be delivered with iss 46...

but there will be further problems to come.
looking forward ;) to their r/c components
maybe with middle prop glued to the resin part ?  ;D ;D ;D

just read in their 'preferential offer' that their r/c set contains a 6V/4,5Ah battery
these specs sound a bit like 'lead acid battery' (hope i'm wrong, posted in mark's forum why these shouldn't be used)


markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 13, 2007, 03:58:19 PM
That is good news at least the superstructure is not throwing any problems yet.

Yes the middle prop shaft will be simply glued into place, maybe the idea is you are to spin the centre prop by hand to give the effect ;D ;D ;D

Did you change you deck to a thinner one as some are saying it is too thick?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 13, 2007, 04:00:09 PM
no, don't care about 2mm too much...(3mm instead of 1mm deck)

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 13, 2007, 04:05:05 PM
I agree but they were saying it caused other problems further down the line.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 13, 2007, 05:31:26 PM
I agree but they were saying it caused other problems further down the line.



the only problem with a 3mm deck is the anchor pocket location, but that's something i can accept because even with a 1mm deck this position isn't accurate


markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 16, 2007, 04:19:10 PM
Over the last few weeks I've noticed quite a few magazines sets and parts builds for sale on ebay Germany.... funnily enough, all around the isse 30 - 40......Why is that?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bismarck-Hachette-1-200-Schlachtschiff-Ausgabe-1-31_W0QQitemZ180140146164QQihZ008QQcategoryZ81159QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Modellbau-Schiffe-bismarck-1-200-hachette_W0QQitemZ160137887497QQihZ006QQcategoryZ9145QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hachette-Die-Bismarck-1-bis-31-Heft13-incl-org-Ordner_W0QQitemZ150136535953QQihZ005QQcategoryZ9145QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bismarck-Hachette-1-200-Schlachtschiff-Ausgabe-1-31_W0QQitemZ180134665777QQihZ008QQcategoryZ81159QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 16, 2007, 04:29:16 PM
Maybe it is because of all the bad vibes coming from Germany re the accuracy & build problems being associated with this kit?
Even the webmaster of the leading German Bismarck build forum has commented that many over there have said they would ditch the kit on ebay because of what they have found and they are only at issue 44, lets hope Hachette have got it sorted for the UK!

Mind you, I suppose if you get it into perspective then a few dozen dropping out of what is being banded around in Germany as being 20,000 there that have bought into this kit, then I dont think Hachette will be loosing any sleep over this, though they might if off loading this kit gather's pace, no evidence of this yet in the UK other than the odd issue or two appearing on ebay ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 16, 2007, 05:22:02 PM
i guess it's those people who have given up, most of them will be beginners who thoght they would make it after hachette offered this kit as 'easy to build'...

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 16, 2007, 05:23:37 PM
In that case they should be asking for there money back ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 16, 2007, 09:02:28 PM
Martin just wondering but;

A/ are you going to have a fleet of them hence the interst
B/ spares incase you mucked anything up
C/ resign from the Hachette fan club and abandon this excellent travisty for a kit ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

P.s. have you noticed anything odd about the symetry of resin part D

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 17, 2007, 01:25:36 PM
Down below sent me this....


Dear Readers,
 
As promised you'll find our answers regarding the points raised recently (2nd planking and portholes).
Regarding the 2nd planking, a few customers think it should not be necessary and could make the model out of scale. This 2nd planking is actually crucial for both the RC and static model of the Bismarck and it is very important to follow the step-by-step instructions. In both cases, the 2nd planking helps to re-inforce the structure, which is an imperative for the RC version. For the static model, the 2nd planking is also particularly useful for beginners as they will find it easier to get a neat finish, the 2nd planking being thinner and easier to apply.
If the modelers sand the 1st and then the 2 planking as per the instructions given in the magazine (from issue 11), all the pieces will fit perfectly as  we will show in issue 43.
 
Concerning the portholes, Amati has chosen to make the building process in 2 stages. This is here again geared towards beginners to avoid any mistake. We first give identical wooden section with holes for both sides. We then give a paper template for the left and the right side and you will just have to fill some holes when necessary  and drill some extra ones  When done, the model will have the right number of portholes which are correctly positioned. The final steps are explained in issue 54. 
 
We have put a lot of research in this model and we are confident that the finished model will meet your expectations.
 
Hachette
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 18, 2007, 07:12:32 PM

What a planker!

My Bismarck build updated.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg49840#msg49840


Lessoned learnt: If you like your finish firm and smooth,  don't rush planking ..... just like women!  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on July 18, 2007, 09:15:34 PM
Martin, I reckon you got it. Well done mate and all without steaming or using a planking grooving tool by the look of it. Not too much glue oozing everywhere like mine have either.  You will be doing any more planked models now then? Cheers Graham ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 18, 2007, 09:22:30 PM
At least the lime planks they supply is of good quality, cuts well and is not 'wooly' unlike the last plank on frame partwork I did which was the Bounty

Daryl
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 19, 2007, 12:52:38 PM
I think the general quality of the kit is good, but think it will be the poor advance thought re the build that let's the kit down; time will only tell on the accuracy issues in which Hachette now seem to be doing there best to put right all be it through cobbled together methods it seems.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 21, 2007, 02:55:30 PM
The UK cost of the Hachette RC pack is £125 inc P+P.

It will be available to order via a leaflet supplied within issue 23 and a £10 deposit is required.

The RC pack is to be delivered to customers when issue 58 goes on sale (once the full balance has been recieved).


The set comprises of the following items:

2 x Graupner 'Speed 400' motors with suppressors

1 x Graupner 'Navy V40R' ESC

1 x Thunder Tiger 'Ace' 2-channel 40Mhz AM radio set with one Servo & AA type battery box

2 x 2:1 Gearboxes

2 x Rudder assemblies

3 x Propellers

2 x Prop shafts

1 x Dummy centre prop shaft

1 x 6-Volt 4.5ah Battery & Charger


A 2 year guarantee is given for the Graupner bits & the identical set is also being supplied in Germany.


The standard partwork disclaimer applies - items may vary from those shown

Title: Newbie
Post by: rem2007 on July 21, 2007, 04:40:02 PM
Hi all, new to this scheme and am on week 11 anyone in Torbay doing this one? if so drop me a line.
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=12201;image)
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4984.0;attach=12202;image)


Cheers robert
Title: Re: Newbie
Post by: DickyD on July 21, 2007, 04:53:05 PM

Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 21, 2007, 06:01:37 PM
Matin, you photos and build look great with good tips, I think your part 47 is wrong though, rfer to photo 10 week 9 the rib is backwards which is why your piece 47 is wrong, I hope it doesnt cause too many problems'  Cheers for the tips and photos again robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 21, 2007, 08:15:58 PM
Oops Martin.....he's right :-[......... Well spotted Rem2007 :o

It also means you have rib 39a the wrong way round as the rudder servo support part 47 can only be located the correct way round  you have rib 39a the correct way round as shown in issue 8 step 9, (the Servo slot in part 47 should be facing you as in iss 8 tep 9 and not the opposite way round as you have got it.

It should not make a lot of difference as to which side of 39a the Rudder Servo is installed but we dont know for sure what else have in mind Amati at this stage ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 21, 2007, 09:32:16 PM
"I wondered who be the first to spot that! Well done corporal Jones."

 ............................. I meant to do do that to see if you were paying attention.  ::)
Fortunately, as you say it only means the rudders goes round the other way!
Remind me to tell Capitain Lindemann.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 21, 2007, 10:05:57 PM
I think it was the rudders going the other way that doomed the original ship Martin!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 22, 2007, 08:00:03 AM
Can't get the staff ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 22, 2007, 09:51:52 AM
Building by the book eh Martin ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 22, 2007, 10:15:56 PM
"Leave it!"
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 22, 2007, 11:31:47 PM
Hope that doesn't ruin your build mate,...........still a newbie here and thought I should point it out. Just about to start planking and your photos and ideas are going to help. If only I could get my wokshop an deck built as quickly, but it won't stop raining. How does it look so far?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 23, 2007, 08:36:28 AM
It looks oke doke ;)

Keep it weighted down and so keeping the hull flat until you have the planking completed as all this damp weather can induce a twist n warp in the Hull, once the planking is in place it will prevent the problem ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 24, 2007, 12:11:10 AM
Yeah, was sanding tonite and my arm started to fall off. Thanks again here fo all the great tips. Went to the Park in Paignton on Sunday morning and no one was there. Maybe next week, but the little guy has footy matchs Sunday mornings when we get bcak from holidays. Well it will be 2 1/2 years before I launch this puppy as its my first rc build. Anyway gents cheers for the information and keep your keels straight.
Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 24, 2007, 08:53:46 AM
We are all happy to help anytime you want to drop by ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 24, 2007, 11:58:02 AM
Hi rem2007,

All I'd say from what I've learned from my planking is;

1. Test fit EACH plank TWICE. Ensure it fits neatly against the adjacent plank and ribs before gluing.
2.  Despite the remtation to do 3 or 4 at a time and cover the whole lot in glue!
3.  Chamfer or bevel the edge of adjacent planks for a better fit.
4.  The planking clamps are very usefull.
5.  Don't rush it.


....... Hind sight is 20:20!

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 25, 2007, 09:14:04 AM
for all the antipodeian members Ihave had this from Hachette in australia. Nicola is the girl rsonsable for the launch over there.

Hello,
This will be coming to Australia in August this year. TV advertising
will commence at the time of this launch.
Regards
Nicola
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 25, 2007, 09:22:07 AM
Have heard it is also to go on sale in Italy & France about that time too.

The back of the RC offer leaflet suggests the kit is also to go on sale in South Africa & New Zealand

Seems the Bismarck is doing a world tour ;D

Nothing like pushing the boat out ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on July 25, 2007, 01:34:26 PM
Daryl,

Do you have the ladies email address, I would like to join the Bismark Fleet........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 25, 2007, 08:15:49 PM
My Motors have arrive from Marki53 & Germany!

Thanks Mark..... and you even get a bag of sweets!
How's that for service!  ;D


(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1256.jpg)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1253.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 25, 2007, 08:17:11 PM
There I was all cocky with myself and look what's happened!  ??? ???

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1206.jpg)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1204.jpg)

I can't see anything wrong, just looks like the glue didn't hold. Any ideas?


I've glued it back and clamped it down but I have no ideas and never had this problem before. Needless to say, I've gone round all the other but joints and applied more glue both inside and out.



Ah well, looks OK to me!  ::)
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1216.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: John W E on July 25, 2007, 08:21:15 PM
Martin, did you remove all the carbon off the edge of the frames before you applied the glue?  If you can get a knife in and scrape the frames where the glue hasnt taken, i.e. if you can clean them up a bit to remove the carbon deposits off the laser burning; then reapply the glue.    If you are using PVA glue you can put a drop of superglue in as well.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 25, 2007, 08:29:04 PM
Yes the edges were sanded down a little to allow for the hull shape.
I'm just curious as it's just in one place!

Wood, planking..... it'll never catch on!  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 25, 2007, 10:10:34 PM
interesting bag of bits Martin, very similar to the Hachette offer which comes with battery Tx and Rx. Did you by chance do a price comparison with the Hachette offer listed earlier or with the same parts bought through Howes or Westbournes. This does raise an interesting question, you say you are building this by the instructions, that would imply using the Hachette R/C gear would it not?

You do know don't you that Amati hasn't tested their version in the wet stuff yet. that's providing it floats with what is to come ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

On the glue problem, did you glue the edges as the instructions state in issue 12 onwards, I have used Evostick weather resistant and they have not moved at all. I am now waiting for the post office to get back to work if the have water and deliver  parts 16 to ?( I live in Gloucester)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 25, 2007, 10:52:22 PM
Guess your right Daryl,  :-[
I'll build the wooden and resin bits the Hatchette way but I have a real thing about gearboxes in model boats!  >:(
"No need!"

I get some Evostick weather resistant this weekend.
Must say I'm surprised at the Deluxe Materials Aliphatic resin, doesn't seem that strong....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 25, 2007, 11:03:18 PM
Quote
Must say I'm surprised at the Deluxe Materials Aliphatic resin, doesn't seem that strong....

I use Aliphatic a fair bit and find it OK but the surfaces have to be reasonably absorbent and the joint firmly clamped until dry to "weld" the wood together. Not tried that particular brand though.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kendalboatsman on July 25, 2007, 11:09:06 PM
Guess your right Daryl,  :-[
I

I get some Evostick weather resistant this weekend.



Hi Martin,

I always use the Water resistant Evostick Resin W for assembling furniture and making models. Pleased to say I have never had trouble with it not sticking.

Clive :)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 26, 2007, 08:34:42 AM
My Motors have arrive from Marki53 & Germany!
Thanks Mark..... and you even get a bag of sweets!
How's that for service!  ;D


All of what you show is readily available here in the UK and no need for gearboxes if you dont like them though I know for fact that Graupner themselves have specd the Hachette running gear for this model on Amati's behalf ;)

What does puzzle me is that the Hachette RC pack contains the exact same Graupner motors & nylon props and very likely the same prop shafts plus a radio, battery/charger & Graupner ESC for £125, am curious to know what you paid for your bag of sweets....er goodies ???

If you had gone for the brass props and third motor it would at least have made some sense to the mod or maybe a third motor is OTT, even so am surprised that a guy with your model boat experience has gone for such a set-up via Germany :-\

It seems the benefit to what you have got there is having the motors pre-installed onto ply bearer's ???


Seems ludicrous to me to ship this stuff all the way from Germany as you could easily have thrown together the exact same components from within the UK at much less cost, hell of an expensive bag of sweeties ;D


Your planking looks to have dry joints, quite often laser cut burns can dramaticaly reduce bonding and the cure to this sanding the brown residue away, I have used Aliphatic Resin for this build and have used waterproof Evostick in the past and no problems with either.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 26, 2007, 11:32:34 AM
The note below will be of interest to all who incorporate a three motor design into this model and also change rudders for a scale size.

I have come across the posting below on the 'Die Graue Flotte' web forum in Germany, a number of letters have been posted in english which come from Sergio who is the chief designer at Amati, a snippet of which I thought would be of great interest is as follows:

"It could be very difficult to to insert a middle shaft, another reason is that in the middle of the model we have the main Keel (central) and if you fit something through this Keel the model will become very fragile.

The middle propeller of the RC model will be the same size as the other two, the three propellers and rudders of the static model will be different in size and position on the ship.

Please note that the main problem is to let the model run within a pool or a little lake, if the real rudder dimension and position is reproduced you may need a very big lake to turn your model.
For that reason and after several tests we found the right props and rudders for the RC model. The static model will look exactly like the pictures."

So basically the main point is that the chopping out of the model to accomodate a third motor will weaken it and also explains why they opted for a two motor design ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 26, 2007, 12:12:16 PM
Hi Martin,  Are you sure that the rubber bands, or whatever you were using to hold the planks held them firmly against the frames.  If not then the join could very very weak.  That was the first thing that sprung to my mind.

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 26, 2007, 03:18:09 PM
It might be worth giving the other planks a bit of a prod, just to see if there are any more weak joins.  Better find them now than half way across the lake ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 26, 2007, 03:26:08 PM
Amati's supa-dupa advice of the gauze bandage & PVA on the inner hull wont hold them ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 26, 2007, 05:05:18 PM
Quote
So basically the main point is that the chopping out of the model to accomodate a third motor will weaken it and also explains why they opted for a two motor design

An accepted way of allowing for a centre shaft on a model with a wood keel is to fit "doublers" each side along the length where the tube/shaft passes though the hull. As long as the doublers are thick enough you can then safely drill out the centre part and fit the tube. Once it is all securely glassed or filled in there will be no loss of strength. However, looking at the pictures of the partially completed model it appears that this might be difficult to retrofit as it should have been done before the frames were fitted. It may be possible to still do something though.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 26, 2007, 05:43:53 PM
Thanks for that Collin and I agree totally, the advice seems to be do something rather than nothing ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 26, 2007, 05:50:47 PM

I don't think I've paid over the odds at all !
it was what I wanted and it was a package deal and I don't have to go huntingaround for part numbers or worry about compatability and it was available when I wanted it.

I paid 60Euro for my motor pack which is less than I would have paid if I had bought the same items in England..... and don't forget the all important free bag or sweets and no hassle factor ( apart from British online banks don't know that Europe exists!  >:( )

Cost it out for yourselves.

2 x 1794 (Speed 400)
2 x 355.3 (Couplings)
3 x 2307.30L (Props)
3 x 2307.30   (Props)
2 x ? (Graupner Drive Shaft 160mm / 200mm)

I'm always trying to buy cheap solutions which sometimes work out but more often than not, not!
This is a tried and tested setup, I know the motors and a I know the shaft so I'm more than happy with the purchase.... 'but each to his own....'


Re: Planking.
I've had a bit of a poke around and it all seems secure.... but I didn't poke too hard to be honest!  ::)
I'm thinking of a liberal coat of PVA glue inside the hull or even Fibreglass or Epoxy resin..... anyone know what Hatchette say in later issues?

Re: Subscription.
Issues stopped again as I own money..... on a pre paid subscription?!?!?!  >:( >:(



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 26, 2007, 05:59:56 PM
and here the detailed prices:

drive set 1 euro (including shipping)
sweets 59 euro

cheers

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 26, 2007, 06:16:09 PM
Quote
I'm thinking of a liberal coat of PVA glue inside the hull or even Fibreglass or Epoxy resin..... anyone know what Hatchette say in later issues?

Martin, if you coat indiscriminately all over the inside of the hull you may run into problems if wood to wood joints are needed later in the build. I think your best bet is to do what, Kayem I think it was, previously advised - fill in any gaps between the planks with a gap filling glue and run thin cyano along the joints which look reasonably well fitted together. You could also run thick cyano or, better, epoxy glue down the frame to plank joints on the inside of the hull (provided the planks are properly secured in position first). That way you should end up with a reasonably rigid shell that can be rubbed down on the outside to accept the second planking layer and is ready for grp or grp/resin reinforcement on the inside once you know where it is safe to apply it without prejudicing possible future fixings.

Just applying PVA glue on the inside of the hull won't help much at all - it's the gaps between the planks and the plank to frame joints that need to be reinforced. Don't worry, it isn't a write off - just needs a bit of extra work, that's all.  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 26, 2007, 06:30:55 PM
On another inspection the glue seemed to have come away from planks as opposed to the ribs.
I've already been around the ribs with extra PVA glue it was just that one area....  ???

But I'll wait to see what Hachette say before doing anything major.
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 26, 2007, 06:32:56 PM
Hi everyone,
Well I'm taking sometime off sanding as I am waiting on my planking clamps through ebay. Apparently, Torbay doesnt exist in the rc modelling world as none of the local shops or websites stock these clamps. I've heard rumours that you will soon need a passport to get in and out of Devon.  I missed your discussion on glues, can anyone recommend a good wood glue for the planking, the jar issued in week one has worked so far but I anticipate the next few weeks to using much more.
PS any locals who go to Youngs Park are welcome.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 26, 2007, 07:49:07 PM
Suggest you dont continue use the supplied wood glue if you are building the RC version of this kit, either use weatherproof Evostick wood glue or Alipahtic Resin, if you are building the static version then use standard PVA wood glue ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 26, 2007, 07:49:31 PM
Yes Martin 'each to there own' and I like to support UK model shop buisiness's where I can ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 26, 2007, 09:06:42 PM
First stupid question, is aliphatic wood glue and resin the same thing?
 ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 26, 2007, 10:01:43 PM
Difficult to see how this is a tried and tested setup for this kit, Germany only had the bow piece in issue 43, they are on issue 47. Thats a bit quick to glue it and then state its tried and tested, for how long? I thought his kit was going on for 140 issues?

wouldn't it be a good idea to support local model shops where possible. Your list stated you used 3 graupner 2307.30L props and 3 2307.30 props that equals six, fast boat?

couplings   from George turner models     £4.50 x2   = £9
Graupner speed 400 from George turner models £6.45 x 2 = £12.90
shafts x 2 from Gerge turner models £4.50 = £9
3 props from George turner £2.50 each = £7.50
Total £38.40 + max £4 p+p
60 euros at the current excange rate equals £40

I think I know who I would support. But as you said each to their own
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 26, 2007, 10:17:56 PM

OK, I concede the point.....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 26, 2007, 10:42:56 PM
Quote
First stupid question, is aliphatic wood glue and resin the same thing?

"Resin" is a pretty wide term and can be applied to lots of things including the stuff they put in Greek wine to preserve it! Bit like Acrylic paints really, some are waterbased, some solvent based as others have discovered to their cost.

Aliphatic wood glue is a thinnish, usually waterproof fluid that permeates the fibres of the wood surfaces to be joined and then dries to form a very strong bond. It often has "quick grab" characteristics. Cascamite/Extramite is another type of resin which comes in a powder which is mixed with water to form a thin paste which is used to glue the joint together. Evostick is a PVA based wood glue (white glue) which comes in interior and water resistant varieties. It is advertised as waterproof but but I don't think this applies if the joint is immersed without protection (paint etc.) Aliphatic and PVA glues are water soluble when applied which allows any excess to be wiped off with a damp cloth. They are not much good at gap filling.

Epoxy and Polyester resins are syrupy liquids which harden by chemical  reaction when mixed with a catalyst. They come as glues or more "watery" versions which are used for laminating or sealing. They have good gap filling qualities.

I'm sure somebody else can provide a more detailed explanation which would be a good subject for Bluebird's new section.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 27, 2007, 08:39:01 AM
First stupid question, is aliphatic wood glue and resin the same thing?
 ::)

Not a stupid question, it depends if you are talking about Resin in its own right?, if so then no most definately not the same, Resin is used in various guises and has lots of applications.

Aliphatic woodworking glue & Aliphatic Resin is the same thing.

Sorry Colin did'nt see your excellent reply ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 27, 2007, 12:54:32 PM
Martin, what are you going to do with the third prop? glue it to the centre piece and put up witht he drag, drill a small hole and resin a stub in lace to attach it to or have a shaft hanging out the back end somewhere? or even miss it out altogether as Amati suggested in an e-mail to me
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on July 27, 2007, 03:55:42 PM
Before I start I am not building one ,but a way around it  if you are not fitting a motor is to fit the shaft and block the hole on the inside and only slide the prop and shortend shaft in when it's on dispay. so no drag.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 27, 2007, 07:03:29 PM
TGIF.....thank you all for your comments and lessons on glues and resins. It's been some time since I have done modelling and there are a few new terms and items out there. Well the weekend is upon us and I was told to expect my next 4 issues next week as well as my planking clamps by ebay.
So its off to footy practice with the little guy tomorrow and more sanding in preparation for blanking, by the looks of the weather.
Cheers again, Robert.
oh yeah, can anyone recommend a good hobby shop for rc boats near Torbay?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 29, 2007, 10:37:01 AM
Difficult to see how this is a tried and tested setup for this kit, Germany only had the bow piece in issue 43, they are on issue 47. Thats a bit quick to glue it and then state its tried and tested, for how long? I thought his kit was going on for 140 issues?

wouldn't it be a good idea to support local model shops where possible. Your list stated you used 3 graupner 2307.30L props and 3 2307.30 props that equals six, fast boat?

couplings   from George turner models     £4.50 x2   = £9
Graupner speed 400 from George turner models £6.45 x 2 = £12.90
shafts x 2 from Gerge turner models £4.50 = £9
3 props from George turner £2.50 each = £7.50
Total £38.40 + max £4 p+p
60 euros at the current excange rate equals £40

I think I know who I would support. But as you said each to their own


as posted before, i already tested the drive on a lake, with my bismarck of course

i guess this one hour of running the ship was enough to test all components
________________________________________________________________

martin asked me for some spare props, so i sent him 3 additional props for free

i don't care for supporting local shops, i buy my items from where they're cheapest - even if this was a dealer from another country

if you add those stainless steel fastening screws for the motors in your calculation you'll notice that buyers receive a tested drive system for less cost than bought in the UK - delivered to your home.

i know who i'd support of i was offered this ;)

cheers

markus

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 29, 2007, 02:19:50 PM
How have you tested your hull on a lake you have only just received the bow, one of your postings on the other forum mentions you testing your hull, interestingly before Germany received the bow. What did you treat the hull with, all the pictures I have seen no protective coating was visable. You mention s/s screws Martin didn't, is this an attempt to justify the cost? The prices I quoted are from buisness who make a profit by selling to hobbists r/c equipment, I could tell you the average mark-up but I guess you know that allready.

Graupner props are readily available in the UK, but free samples are a good marketing tactic. Pictures of your test would be welcome, after all it would be nice to show your customers the finished working product. but I expect you didn't take a camera with you ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on July 29, 2007, 03:08:47 PM
Lets keep this civil chaps please .I am watching this thread closely

Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 29, 2007, 04:58:16 PM

I've posted several times how i sealed the hull - so look for those posts and you can read for yourself what i used for sealing ;) hint: it's a 'graupner' product

if you compare the 'color' from superstructure and hull you'll maybe notice a difference, guess which of them is sealed..

(http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/photogal/s3400063.jpg)

so her maiden voyage was no problem, even without bow part

justify the cost ??? - no need for that, i deliver all those parts for the same price (maybe less) than if you bought them yourself
good marketing tactic ??? - laughable, i just did him a favour with those spare props

my mark-up would be huge if my last name was 'graupner', but unfortunately i have to buy all those items myself from a model shop which already made profit from selling them

i guess you know that you cannot buy graupner items directly, in germany graupner parts can only purchased from model shops

Moderated - Martin
markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on July 29, 2007, 05:10:44 PM
Moderated - Martin

You say the maiden voyage was no problem how can that be without the bow, the handling would be different to the completed model. Pictures would be nice.

I guess  the funds from the sales would come in handy, you have stated that the hachette supplied equipment is rubbish, if you look further up the page you will find it to be of excellent quality, yet you supply simillar equipment ??? ???

you have said you sealed the hull yet it is incomplete, wouldn't that make finishing it difficult, for further details of what we are going to get to finish the detail on the hull ask Amati or look at archive photos and compaire.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on July 29, 2007, 05:20:34 PM

Handling with or without bow is the same, only the waves coming from the bow look a little different

i never said that the (graupner) parts hachette used are rubbish, it's just HOW they made a drive of it. look at the pics of their drive built in - this looks horrible

the sealing is sandable, so i won't have any problems gluing the shaft supports or other parts afterwards

that's the reason why i didn't paint the hull by now - this would make things more difficult.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 29, 2007, 11:28:21 PM
HI All !
Good weekend everybody?  ::)

I bought my motor set from marki53 because:
1. I don't like the Hachette motor setup (I wouldn't use it as is even if it was free).
2. I like the components and setup marki5353 offered and would have gone that route anyway.
3. I couldn't be bothered to go find the part numbers of the individual components & supplier myself, (I always mess up orders like that!)

I'm happy with marki53's motor setup. I know there will be oodles of extra power ("anti Duck speed!") as I've seen the motors setups that Ron Dean fits in similar size ships and he's always banging on about over powered models. We could start a whole new topic about "scale speed", "true speed", "transition time" or "relative scale speed", personally I prefer the "wake patten" reckoning, but that's just me......

It's a fair point to ask marki53 to show 'on the water' pictures or video with his setup if that helps.... over to you marki53
But it's also fair to say "buy or don't buy", Marki53 is only offering an opinion and a service , it's not compulsory or nuffink!

"Yous pays ya money & makes your choice!"

Martin.


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on July 29, 2007, 11:49:48 PM

 ... "buy or don't buy"

(http://www.modelltruck.net/images/smilies/ok.gif)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on July 29, 2007, 11:50:41 PM
says it all
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 30, 2007, 12:00:04 AM
Re: Centre prop. Not sure yet, thinking of a free running prop or a false prop ie. same profile but flat fully feathered blades..... that gonna look crap ain't it.   :P
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on July 30, 2007, 09:51:36 AM

Handling with or without bow is the same, only the waves coming from the bow look a little different

i never said that the (graupner) parts hachette used are rubbish, it's just HOW they made a drive of it. look at the pics of their drive built in - this looks horrible

the sealing is sandable, so i won't have any problems gluing the shaft supports or other parts afterwards

that's the reason why i didn't paint the hull by now - this would make things more difficult.



Simply to address the balance and state the fact, sorry Marki but you HAVE described the Hachette RC set as being "rubbish" and have noted below exactly what you have said via your posts on the build the bismarck.co.uk web forum:

May 21st - " Hope you dont intend to buy that AM control offered by Hachette, this is rubbish."

June 11th - "Hachette RC set was designed by the chairwoman."

June 8th - "The main disadvantage from Hachette's set are they used parts which result in a look totally different from the original."

.......This only applies to the rudders in which the chief designer for this model at Amati (Sergio) has openly and fully commented why the rudders are not scale and there reasons behind this.

June 8th - "In my opinion this partwork is suitable for advance model builders especially if you want to make a R/C model of it."

.....In which case your own comment on this (one would assume) would then make your 3 motor conversion totally unsuitable for the novice it appears you readily sell this conversion to the novice with no regard for what you know to be fact.

It simply comes down to 'each to there own' re components be it cost or spec, but as for a complex 3 motor conversion such as yours then there needs to be a responsibility on your part to make it quite clear that such a conversion is not an easy task to undertake and get right BEFORE it being sold to the novice.

I think at least we are all in agreement that the Graupner gear is good quality which ever route one goes down with this gear ;)

The Hachette RC set may be as you describe in your eyes but Amati seem to think it fits the bill and that is where this matter is best left ;)


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gary r uk on July 30, 2007, 09:59:09 AM
hi martin
the centre prop on my scharnhorst is a free spinner otherwise you suffer from biased steering as one prop is going one way with 2 others going the other so you use the rudders more just like on the real ship
gary
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 02, 2007, 09:31:07 AM
I see the Hachette RC pack offer is on sale this week within issue 23, not delivered until 58 though :o

Martin, do you intend to go down the route of the mag advised method of using of gauze bandage & PVA for sealing of the inner hull as described in 18?.....seems a bit of wishful thinking to me ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 02, 2007, 11:28:50 AM
The use of graupner "glattfix" is a good choice for sealing wood. It goes right into the wood and seals it from "within". First choice for all sealing jobs. This is my firm opinion, but what do I know?!... ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 02, 2007, 12:00:42 PM
Thanks for that Jan, have heard a few other's mention this product and sing its praise's but finding it in the UK is near impossible :(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: red on August 02, 2007, 02:57:40 PM
When you go to deans Marine, Have a look at the kits and ask the nice Ron Dean for help. tell him you are going to build it on line and ask him what is he  going to give you to build.

Fred

Oh and have a viking funeral for next doors cat with the bismark
Title: Re: Martin DOESN'T Build the Bismarck!
Post by: Down below on August 02, 2007, 03:33:44 PM
Martin

Suggest you vent your problems direct when she returns.

Just a thought........If your build is a 'free of charge' press review kit as you say it is then by rights you should be building by the book ie using the Hachette RC gear which will no doubt be foc to you as well, otherwise the addition of non Hachette supplied running gear will not make your build a true press review of the kit and I bet Hachette wont be too pleased either.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: red on August 02, 2007, 04:18:18 PM
Martin Just put it on the shelf and have a nice holiday , then in a week or so when the next bits come do a bit more. we all get fed up at times during a build, so just play with somethink else. I find that if you have two builds on the go at the same time you can chop between the two as you think about a problem .its not the easeyest boat to build but its looking good so far so just have a break..Fred
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on August 02, 2007, 09:57:02 PM
You better carry on with it   I am running a book on wether it will float or not ! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 02, 2007, 09:58:37 PM
Quote
Knowing them you will end up with a flood of mags up to issue 24 next week

And all duplicates so you can build the Tirpitz as well!  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 02, 2007, 11:28:23 PM
evening gents.....totally off topic and atad blurry but moving along in week 11 and the sun has finally come out in torbay....what do you think so far...remember I work full-time...
Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 02, 2007, 11:43:14 PM

Hi Robert.
Looks good so far, remender to glue each plank to each other and along the inside against the rib.
Once dry poke around and test each joint.
Sand planks along the inside long edge that meet on a curve eg. around the bilge keels so they fit against each other better.


"And your round starts.... Now!"
1. What issue are you up to?
2. What glue are you using?
3. Do you have a postal or shop subscription?

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 02, 2007, 11:53:11 PM
ahoy...working on week 11, and I'm using evostik and I have a postal subscription which may get affected by thes strikes...
hope not....cheers for the comments and I will follow the tips but it is slow going right now and the missus is calling so i'd best say good nite,
thanks again
robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: red on August 03, 2007, 08:37:45 AM
Martin

Is the foc press review freeby a recent event, only I think we were all under the impression that you were funding your subscription out of your own pocket as this is what your post suggest on page 5 of this topic ;)




If Martin had said ANYTINK, by now I think there may have been 30 pages of moans at Martin as if he owned the comany and for him to sort all the problems out. he is doing it as a punter by the look of things and having the same problems as everone else

Fred
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on August 03, 2007, 09:01:40 AM
I think you will find Hachette knows the dire service we who pay well over the odds are getting, but as long as the profits are there they don't care. After all there will be more subscribers for the next partwork, there allways is. Why ask you or Deans Marine for a press review by the time they get it the series over here will be finished, and if you report back to them after each installment it is too late to alter anything for future realeases in other countries. The last victims to fall for this kit is Australia and the advertising campaign will start at the end of august.

Any marketing guru will tell you press reviews are used in various ways one is to inhance the product by feedback from potential customers9 can't see that in this case), indirect advertising is another. If you think it is good you tell people on here and they will go out and subscribe to it, you could have asked for a commission, our sales people here do when they do things like this.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 03, 2007, 09:56:36 AM


I think you will find that whatever web forum you visit re this kit that subscribers seem to be having all sorts or problems with subscription yet those who get the mag via the newsagent don't seem to be having any problems in supply at all, one would think that subscribers would get preferential treatment simply because they subscribe and in effect have entered into a contract, but sadly this does not seem to be the case :(

So Fred in reply to your comment, pages of moans due to martin's building as a press review has no bearing on this, Martin is not the voice of Hachette and I'am sure he is reporting as he finds, it is simply that subsrcibers in general seem to be getting a naff service from there customer service provider across the board hence why they are getting hacked off including Martin, one would have thought that if his is a press review sub then he would get his issues bang on the dot, this seems not to be the case ::)   
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 03, 2007, 01:12:50 PM
..... I only came here to build a toy boat........ ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 03, 2007, 04:18:58 PM
"A TOY, I COULD HAVE BOUGHT A CAR FOR THAT", as my signiphican't other would say. And frequently does! she's got to go.
women, cant live with 'em, can't put them in the fridge.
you did start it, Ha Ha. you'l know better next time
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 03, 2007, 05:29:19 PM
..... I only came here to build a toy boat........ ::)

I feel with you my friend... what about building a second one for me?!  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 03, 2007, 07:33:17 PM
Its ok Martin, i hope that everything will work out fine for you. Btw. there is a question i have in mind... why is the Bismark that famous in England?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 03, 2007, 08:21:05 PM
It was more the build method that was of interest to me, plus I never built a warship.
... the Bismarck is famous everywhere!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 03, 2007, 08:41:13 PM
It was more the build method that was of interest to me, plus I never built a warship.
... the Bismarck is famous everywhere!

Yes, builded her own legend... but i am not proud of that ship... 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 04, 2007, 06:06:10 PM
ahoy admiral u alright mate? robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 04, 2007, 07:09:24 PM
hi martin!

try to see it in a positve way:

even if they cancelled your 'free build' remember you already saved more than 100GBP

so your ship will be less expensive than ours

i still hope they go on delivering issues and didn't stop because you bought a drive set of some german guy :-[

GO ON BUILDING !!!

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 04, 2007, 10:15:49 PM
what still an ableseaman after all those nice comments.......still planking.....
robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 05, 2007, 10:08:27 AM
Marki

Have seen your photo on the .co.uk site of you painted Hull prior to its water test,....nice rocks!..... is there a reason why the resin Bow part is not in place ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 05, 2007, 10:55:31 AM
not in place ???
mounted all resin parts, so i don't understand what you mean..

will upload the video in the next few minutes

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 05, 2007, 11:18:55 AM
here the videos:

found out that you have to move that round knob under the video a bit to the right, otherwise the video won't play ???

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/th_S3400093.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/?action=view&current=S3400093.flv)

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/th_S3400092.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/?action=view&current=S3400092.flv)





Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 06, 2007, 11:12:23 AM
Will be interesting to see what the turn stabilty is like once all the superstructure is in place as it may end up being a little top heavy once all the PE parts are added.

Seems odd Amati are reluctant to state the RC finished model wieght ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 06, 2007, 12:33:01 PM
Looks a bit fast to me on the videos.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 06, 2007, 01:16:39 PM
Well it does have three motors ;D


Marki

I read you water tested with nylon props...Did the Lassek brass props not live up to the task?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 06, 2007, 03:28:04 PM
 
Better to have too much power and throttle back rather than having to run flat out all the time..... it's called "anti duck speed"...... because it's not legal to make the guns work!  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 06, 2007, 04:32:16 PM

Better to have too much power and throttle back rather than having to run flat out all the time..... it's called "anti duck speed"...... because it's not legal to make the guns work!  ::)

couldn't test if she reached 'anti duck speed' - there were some young ducks on the pond but they were afraid of the ship ;D

yes, better be too fast than too slow! maybe i'm just a speed freak ???

eventually i will unmount 1 cell because 6V are enough, especially when using 30mm nylon props
that will also provide the correct voltage for the 6V steam generators

i sold my (new) lassek props to a guy from the .co.uk forum after lassek informed  me about 3 weeks delivering time for a prop order.
did't want to let that guy wait too long for his props - so i delivered him mine

markus



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 06, 2007, 04:52:53 PM
Your service sounds too good to be true ;)

...but it's the truth - hate nothing more than waiting on deliveries ;)

concerning the turn stability with mounted superstructure:

i don't expect any problems for the following reasons:

1. the superstructure is very lightweight
2. the brass parts are very thin (also lightweight)
3. the superstructure is very narrow in the upper area
4. made the first water test with 2 cola bottles mounted above the styrene battery holder - no problem

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 06, 2007, 07:29:40 PM

Better to have too much power and throttle back rather than having to run flat out all the time..... it's called "anti duck speed"...... because it's not legal to make the guns work!  ::)

Thats ok with me, but i prefer a more scale-like speed. I personaly think that 3 engines with 16.000 rpm are more then overpowered  8)

Try and image a 16.000 rpm engine in my clyde puffer!!!  :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on August 06, 2007, 11:06:41 PM
I think that we will have to see what comes and work with it as we see fit .   Please lets make the build thread run as it should ,and let Marki53 post away without constant demands on him.

Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 07, 2007, 08:15:51 AM
Shane

I have never once PM'd you re any concern nor you me!!

If someone continuously posts every detail of a there high profile build along with promoting the sale of components then they can expect criticism be it constructive or not

Marki seems happy to respond to the points being raised and many thanks to him for doing so as it adds to the full picture of his build.

Text self moderated following Shane's apology below ;)




 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on August 07, 2007, 09:07:16 AM
Shane-
I was not having a go, if you read my post I was just pointing out that the DESIGNER Sergio has poisted on the german flotte forum several details which is of direct concern. If you go and look you will see what I am on about. TO make this crystal clear Amati does not know the total weight of the when Sergio posted. The turrets for one are very heavy being white metal coated with brass etch. The weight is well above the waterline, this surly is a concern. Have you seen or read any details from Hachette or Amati proving the r/c version works, I havn't. We are paying upwards of £700 for this partwork, for that money I expect things correct, there are so many builds on the web departing from Hachette's instructions how can the novice be confident to finish the model.

As Down Below has said, if you continuiously post high profile build then expect criticism
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 07, 2007, 10:58:49 AM
Peace brothers...  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on August 07, 2007, 05:55:17 PM
Down Below . I apologise to you , after checking ,the pm did NOT originate from yourself  . Sorry.

Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on August 07, 2007, 06:25:30 PM
Shane, I've been enjoying all this, please don't put a damper on things. This whole thread has reminded me why I'm a scratch builder and have little interest in assembling components of dubious quality and accuracy that have been made by someone else and sold to me in drip feed fashion at inflated prices.

As Martin might have said, "Suffisant (smug), moi?"
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 07, 2007, 08:48:31 PM
Shane

Apology accepted and no probs, lets move on ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Daryl on August 07, 2007, 09:57:52 PM
This partwork is costing upwards of £700, for that amount of money I expect a perfect or near perfect kit, is it not right to ask questions in plain english. After all who goes into a car show room and buys a car without asking questions, if you don't like the answer the salesman gives then either walk away or as more probing questions. Then again this kit does take a bit of intelegance to get right.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 08, 2007, 08:54:12 AM
Some interesting weight figures have finally come to light for this model via Sergio at Amati who is the designer.

The total weight of the Hull (with no Superstructure) but including Hachette RC/Running gear will be 2.9 - 3 Kgs.

The Superstructure approx 1.5 - 1.8 Kgs.

Approx 700 grams of additional Ballast will be required for the model to sit at the right water line, (this will vary up or down depending on how heavy individual completed model is as a result of finishing products used for inner/outer hull & glue used etc and any extras such a rotating turrets ec.)

An expected total model weight will be around 5.5 - 6 Kgs 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 08, 2007, 07:20:46 PM
 "Daryl" is no longer a member of this forum.   
No, he wasn't pushed, he jumped.

After a barrage of accusations made against me & this forum Daryl decided this forum was not for him and deleted his account..... good luck to him. Lets leave it there and get back to model boats.

Admin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 09, 2007, 05:41:12 PM
Quote
Well I scummed and rang Hachette today, all sorted, magazines are on their way...... eta 3 or 4 weeks

Well, I've heard of the term "snail mail" but....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 09, 2007, 05:45:25 PM
Well I scummed and rang Hachette today, all sorted, magazines are on their way...... eta 3 or 4 weeks  ???


that's really good news :)

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 09, 2007, 07:45:21 PM
What's the bet you only get 4 mags which still maked you miles behind, you never know they might have half a brain to bring you up to date ;D ;D

Dont you be making a mint on ebay with the feeby RC gear ;D ::)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dougal99 on August 09, 2007, 08:23:56 PM
Well I scummed and rang Hachette today, ???

Bad but surely not that bad  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 09, 2007, 11:06:58 PM
Blondy spill cheque!.....  :-[

Well I scummed and rang Hachette today, ???

Bad but surely not that bad  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 10, 2007, 10:05:21 AM
I thought it was local Peterborough dialect Martin.  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 10, 2007, 11:16:24 AM


Down below was right, Isabelle is back from shore leave and all the subscription issues have all been sorted and the missing magazines are now all on there way to me over the next week.
Thanks Isabelle.

( It takes a real woman to do a mans job! Do you think I'll get away with that, maybe not, I withdraw it.  ::) )

Right, I've cleaned up the topic.... mainly all my own moaning, so now we can get to the matter in hand:-
Let Build the Bismark!


Robert: How is your planking going?
Down Below: How is your build going?
Mark: How is your build going on the other side of the planet?
Marki: What issue are you up to?
Colin: You've missed your vocation as a Christmas cracker gag writer.  ::)

Any other Hachette Bismarck builds going on? Stand up and be counted.  ;)


................................................................ and peace broke out on the forum once again.  :D

Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 10, 2007, 11:42:34 AM
want to start a book on how long for? ;D
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 10, 2007, 11:49:03 AM

Now now Colin! Don't you go and mess this up for me....... ;)
i've been given personal contact details and everything!  :o!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 10, 2007, 12:15:48 PM
Blimey, will be getting preferential treatment next ;D ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 10, 2007, 01:44:39 PM
Suitably cowed  :'(
NOT.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 10, 2007, 08:51:10 PM


Marki: What issue are you up to?

Martin.


see for yourself....(brass part not glued in place yet)

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/49.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on August 11, 2007, 04:12:13 PM
Hi Martyn,

My model is coming on nicely thanks.  As Markus says, See for yourself ;) www.buildthebismarck.co.uk.

The planking is nearly finished, at least from mid-ships forward.  I'm leaving the stern planking until I eventually get my Hachette RC gear, just to make it easier to fit the prop shafts.  I strayed from the instructions with the planking, foolishly under the misguided belief that I know better than the designers......  The results seem OK, so I'm pleased that I did. (Not that I would encourage anybody else to - don't blame me if you do what I did and it goes pear shaped !!)

Just about to start on the deck, which makes a pleasant change from that #@£$@!! planking

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: madrob on August 11, 2007, 11:31:22 PM
I am still working my way along the planking  >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: leaky on August 12, 2007, 09:49:44 AM
Im planking like a good un just want it to end :'(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 13, 2007, 04:07:58 PM
Careful what you wish for......  :o

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1302.jpg)     (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1304.jpg)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: R2-D2 on August 13, 2007, 04:38:32 PM
Then they Smash them all to bits

Sorry about that its the robot in me R2 D2
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 13, 2007, 04:57:25 PM
Martin

Serves you right for getting all hot under the collar about your deliveries and hachette came good ;D

Grrrrrrr that serves us right for having a laugh as it also seems you are now two issues in front of everyone else as issue 25 does not go on sale until Weds this week and you have been sent up to iss 26 :'(

Wont be hearing from you for a while then 8)

Maybe by the time you have completed that little lot issue 27 might have turned up ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 13, 2007, 05:51:22 PM
get the glue out and get a move on, not forgetting the camera of course.
have fun.
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: R2-D2 on August 13, 2007, 06:01:37 PM
How about a web Cam ?

   Call it the Matinsbissy or bizzy cam as he always is .!

  Luke
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 13, 2007, 06:23:58 PM
gets my vote, and was going to be cruel, but, wont. leave that to everyone else.
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 13, 2007, 06:53:25 PM

Busy?!?!?  This is my average work speed..... ask Jan!  ::)

(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Builds/S130/images/Build_1343.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 13, 2007, 08:11:51 PM
Must have been taken whilst waitin for the mags ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 13, 2007, 10:14:27 PM


Hehehe...

... but it was at last a qualified build... if he was awake  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 14, 2007, 12:24:44 AM
nice pic martin, don't slip off mate you could hurt yourself. anyway I'm just finishing week 12 and getting the hang of steaming and using a combination of pins and planking clamps. getting more confidence from all you other pros. well off to la  land
nite all
robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 14, 2007, 09:12:33 AM
Hi Robert,
Are you chamfering the planks for a better fit?

Is anybody?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 14, 2007, 09:47:32 AM
Yep me is as cant rely on the 2nd planking to seal any mishaps ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on August 14, 2007, 10:11:02 AM
Yup - me too :)  little effort with some 80 grit emery glued to a sanding block.  Have a look on my web site - it's a great tool

www.buildthebismarck.co.uk
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 14, 2007, 05:22:42 PM
sir, yes sir camphered and polished......and if it moves salute it an if it dont move paint it!
robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 14, 2007, 07:43:59 PM
Am lucky enough to have a Dremel detail sander that has loads of moulded heads for awkward sanding detail and takes the pain out of sanding, just a shame I cant find a tool just as fast for the planking as not looking forward to the 2nd round :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 14, 2007, 08:31:37 PM
Martin

Just a thought, would it not be wise to mount your ply motor blocks in a way so that the motors can be removed if need be shoud one of them dies a death?
As if you simply epoxy the mount blocks into place on the hull getting a motor out could well be a nightmare ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 14, 2007, 08:48:19 PM
Not thought that far ahead yet.
I might just use V blocks silicon sealant and a couple of springs..... nice and quiet.

Martin

Just a thought, would it not be wise to mount your ply motor blocks in a way so that the motors can be removed if need be shoud one of them dies a death?
As if you simply epoxy the mount blocks into place on the hull getting a motor out could well be a nightmare ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 15, 2007, 08:25:16 AM
Well posh ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 15, 2007, 04:54:48 PM
Martin

Just a thought, would it not be wise to mount your ply motor blocks in a way so that the motors can be removed if need be shoud one of them dies a death?
As if you simply epoxy the mount blocks into place on the hull getting a motor out could well be a nightmare ;)

no problem, motors are simply screwed to the bracket

already had to dismount the motors for treating the inside of the hull with pore filler...

cheers

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 15, 2007, 05:35:51 PM
Hi Marki,
The only reason I say that is I don't know what parts of the deck will be removeable yet.
Lift off motors in V block is the easiest I can think off..... unless some else knows a better idea.....  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 15, 2007, 07:47:12 PM
Martin

Just a thought, would it not be wise to mount your ply motor blocks in a way so that the motors can be removed if need be shoud one of them dies a death?
As if you simply epoxy the mount blocks into place on the hull getting a motor out could well be a nightmare ;)

no problem, motors are simply screwed to the bracket

already had to dismount the motors for treating the inside of the hull with pore filler...

cheers

markus

This is what I was saying, the motors are simply screwed to the ply bracketsl in your assembly and the brackets are then glued to the hull with epoxy are they not?

It may be later difficult to access the removal of the motors from these brackets due to poor access and so he wont be able to remove the brackets from the hull either as they will have been glued to the hull.

This is why Martin is talking of a removable arrangement as if the access is restricted to the motors even with the removable deck then it will be fun getting the motors out if need be.

If you think it will be okay then fine, but if there is a chance it is not then it is a mess to put right later ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 15, 2007, 09:54:29 PM
Just looking back on the deck structure, it looks like the whole deck comes of in two sections.
The rear sections looks like it goes back way pass the Motors, so motor removal shouldn't be a problem.
As say not sure yet, I'll cross that bridge when I need to!  ;D

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/Bild-97.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on August 15, 2007, 09:57:55 PM
Q here .
Whats that in the polystyrene block ?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 15, 2007, 10:42:50 PM
Dynamite, if the english model-battle-cruisers cant sink his boat  ;D ;)

No, he has placed his batteries in there  :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on August 15, 2007, 10:45:41 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I like your style mate(http://shutter01.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/05/002/1F/7F/C8/FF/oHFGsgrPFI9tQ8Hlsf-1Lg1ogl8urnR7001A.jpg) !!
Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 16, 2007, 08:02:43 AM
The scews that secure the motor's to the ply blocks might be hard to access with a screw driver as then run horizontally and not vertically, not much room between the servo rib and the screw head, maybe 3" at most but suppose it can be done ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 16, 2007, 10:05:30 AM
The scews that secure the motor's to the ply blocks might be hard to access with a screw driver as then run horizontally and not vertically, not much room between the servo rib and the screw head, maybe 3" at most but suppose it can be done ;)

i use a shortened screwdriver for that

but i'ts still a bit fiddy...

markus
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 16, 2007, 01:00:40 PM
You could allways use Allen head bolts and a Allen key..  not shure how its spelt


Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 16, 2007, 03:13:15 PM
The scews that secure the motor's to the ply blocks might be hard to access with a screw driver as then run horizontally and not vertically, not much room between the servo rib and the screw head, maybe 3" at most but suppose it can be done ;)

i use a shortened screwdriver for that

but i'ts still a bit fiddy...

markus

Rest my case ;)

Great idea Peter/HS93 8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: chingdevil on August 16, 2007, 04:05:05 PM
If you use allen screws you can get allen keys with a ball end will let you tighten up and undo the screw at quite a sharp angle.I am am not sure how they are spelt most of the time I call them hex keys and screws

Brian
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 16, 2007, 04:42:15 PM
Thanks for that Brian...it just got better ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 16, 2007, 04:44:32 PM
Just thumbing through the pile of magazines that have arrived this week, (thanks for sorting that Isabelle), and found the RC pack previously mentioned in this thread, the rudder set up is different for the RC version.

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/1.jpg) (http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/2-1.jpg)


Also:
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1528.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 16, 2007, 06:59:42 PM
Just thumbing through the pile of magazines that have arrived this week, (thanks for sorting that Isabelle), and found the RC pack previously mentioned in this thread, the rudder set up is different for the RC version.


looks good ;), doesn't it ? ;D ;D ;D


that's why i used my own propshaft/motor setup and a v-mixer instead of much too big rudders at the wrong place....

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/marki53/123-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 16, 2007, 09:02:05 PM
Martin -

Yes the rudder position is different for the RC version, according to Sergio (the designer of this model) he says this was the best position for the RC rudders being supplied as in performance on the water etc.

Marki -

Nice looking hull, yeah your rudders are slightly different both in appearance and position, but I would hardly say there is that much external difference between the two and what lies below the surface you wont see anyway ;)

An awful lot of people will have pre-ordered the Hachette RC pack, take it you are not laughing directly at them for doing so ???
It seems that you take every possible opportunity in just about every web forum to do down the Hachette RC pack which might suggest you have an ulterior motive :-\

I don't think anyone expected to receive a top of the range RC setup such as yours, don't get me wrong what you have done to date looks the bis, but am sure if they wish to go that route then they will easily find you ;)

Each to there own and it is down to personal choice so lets leave it at that as its starting to sound like a broken record and we have already been down this route previously :D


One question I do have for you, the actual ship has eyebrows on the Hull above the Bow & Stern Portholes, it seems from your photo that Amati have not included this detail on the model, is that correct or would you know if this detail is to be done by the builder, or if Amati are to provide something to give this detail?

My view is that these should be on the model as it is a detail of the model being accurate is it not?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marki53 on August 16, 2007, 09:37:47 PM

One question I do have for you, the actual ship has eyebrows on the Hull above the Bow & Stern Portholes, it seems from your photo that Amati have not included this detail on the model, is that correct or would you know if this detail is to be done by the builder, or if Amati are to provide something to give this detail?

My view is that these should be on the model as it is a detail of the model being accurate is it not?

as far as i'm informed there will be no porthole eyebrows delivered by hachette.
so it seems we have to built them ourself - but this will be a horrible job
maybe a thin copper wire bend on a 3mm drill?
if they aren't delivered there will be no eyebrows on my ship...100% accuracy is not necessary (or even impossible?)

markus


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 16, 2007, 11:19:50 PM
I thinlk you can but etched brass ones   nice and flat.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 17, 2007, 07:58:45 AM
Thanks for that Markus and I agree about it being a horrible task to undertake O0

If they don't incorporate these then its not good as all of the marketing on this kit is about its accuracy & detail :o

I agree there is no reason why the eyebrows cant be done ourselves, but there is also one other detail on these portholes, the holes themselves appear to be slightly sunken too so it it looks like the removal of material Will also be involved to create the detail, am no purist but I was on the understanding i was building an accurate model :-\

No disrespect to your model Markus as it looks great and no doubt the Hull portholes will look the same on everyones model if Amati don't supply this porthole detail, to me they simply look like a series of holes rather than replicating what they actually are if that makes any sense.

Its not good when we have spent in excess of £825+ for the RC version and would not mind if the model had not been described as " being reproduced from original plans and distinguishing itself through its accuracy and attention to detail".

I did not expect the model to be 100% accurate simply because of all the confusion of which plans are right and who says what, but the porthole detail is such an obvious detail to miss and is plainly visible on just about every photo you see of the Bismarck. I don't even think it is down to scaled down loss as the superstructure portholes appear to be of a similar size and yet they incorporate the eyebrows.

Oh well it looks like yet more work to do :(

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 17, 2007, 12:28:29 PM
I am not shore ,but at the scale you are working at I'm shore I have seen the brass mounts from servos used ( I think they call them Ferrel's), you just put tape over inside and use clear acrylic casting material and drip a spot in to seal, or buy a length and polish end and push in then cut off and polish back to seal there are not that many its not like building the queen Mary 1000 of the blighter's

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 17, 2007, 12:46:13 PM
This is what we are looking for both at the Bow & Stern as clearly seen here
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 17, 2007, 12:51:46 PM
I  dont think they are sunken its just the eybrow that makes it look that way just use some brass tube parted off  and a eybrow if you dont use a liner they will never look neat and the same size.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 17, 2007, 01:24:59 PM
Thanks Peter, maybe a trick of the eye n all that O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 17, 2007, 02:20:19 PM

Well I'm all up to date with the issues so I'll be working on part 17 tonight.  O0
I've aleready spotted a mistake I've made back at issue 12  >:( - supprised none of you spotted it  ;) - you're slipping guys ::)


Anyway, just looking at the stern picture of Bismarck below ( above - depending on your forum profile! ), that anchor fits pretty snugly!!
How did the crew make sure it seated the right way round when it came up?

Also, I always wondered what those poles were for attached to the side of the ship.
I always thought they were anti torpedo net supports, turns out they are crew gang planks.... well I didn't know!  :-\
... you wouldn't want to come back late at night with a shandy or two inside you and slip on one of those getting aboard!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on August 17, 2007, 02:34:38 PM
Hi Martin, I definitely do not fancy trying the gang plank. I tried coming out of a hut in Indonesia once down a pole from 12 feet up cold stone sober was bad enough. I suspect those clever German designers made sure that it did not matter which way the anchor came up it stowed as the first arm would catch in the recess and futher pulling rotated the other arm in. Probably wrong but it sounds good. Sorry to be a pain but from what I can see in the picture it looks to me as if all the portholes were recessed. Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 17, 2007, 02:47:03 PM
The scuttles will certainly be recessed to the depth of the hull plating but no more than that. Pictures show more detail here (quite an interesting site): http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/gallery/themes/gallbismstarboardforesection.html
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 17, 2007, 03:11:56 PM
The problem is at 1/200 the recess will only have to be the thickness of paint, I am not a fan of rivets on models because some commercial hull have rivets the size of dinner plates , I think the way to put a recess would be to use a mask and airbrush a tone darker to show depth.or make a tool out of tubes (one inside the other and just pushand twist  gently to leave a mark.


peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 17, 2007, 03:50:12 PM
If the scuttles are less that 2mm in diameter I would be inclined to punch them out of black/dark blue Trimline adhesive tape with a leather punch and stick them in place. Thye neatness will outweigh the technical inaccuracy and avoid the need for drilling holes which will have to be lined with some sort of tube and then glazed  as you will never get sufficiently crisp edges in wood.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 17, 2007, 04:00:16 PM
Hmmm

Just to throw a spanner in the works.....

The superstructure portholes which are part of the PE parts do have eyebrows, these holes seem to be approx the same size as the hull portholes, so it could be that the pothole recess on the hull portholes has been lost in scaling but surely not the eyebrows too??

Martin -

We are too busy trying to sort out the Amati problems ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 17, 2007, 04:14:23 PM
Just out of interest if you look at the rope going from the stern and you blow the picture up slightly it looks like the rope is recessed in the hull and even across the porthole (sorry I cannot call them scuttles as I can only think of coal but I'm not a boat person)

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 17, 2007, 04:15:41 PM
The pictures on the link I posted above clearly show eyebrows on the hull scuttles. Making them from wire would be no problem, sticking them on neatly would! A possibility would be to make a tool out of a quarter section of sharpened brass tube and tap it against the hull above the scuttle. Then paint in the minor indentation in a darker shade of gey. Another possibility would be to make them of wire, put the standard grey paint on them and attach them to the hull while still wet leaving the paint to make the bond - more practical for a static model than a working one though.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 17, 2007, 04:21:30 PM
Thanks for that Collin as this model can be constructed in both static and RC versions O0

and my appologies as i keep calling them hull portholes....Scuttles it is O0

Maybe the work invloved to create this is why Amati have not provided this detail in the first instance which makes a bit of a mockery of there statement of this model being accurate ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on August 17, 2007, 04:32:41 PM
What is the diameter of the portholes? Found some etched "eyebrows" with 3 mm.

http://www.mz-modellbaushop.de/d_8096_Regenrinnen_fur_3_mm_Bullaugen.php
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 17, 2007, 04:39:31 PM
I think, to be fair, that 1:200 is a pretty small scale to be putting on on fully detailed scuttles/portholes unless you are a expert modeller or a miniaturist! I don't think this model is supposed to be THAT accurate! The claim of "accuracy" in the hype is likely to be aimed at modellers of more average abilities - otherwise there wouldn't be an adequate market for the series.

There is in fact another way of doing it which I used on my Granada around 30 years ago. The scale was 1:100. I plated the hull with paper and cut out the portholes (merchant ship!) before attaching it to the hull. I then painted carefully inside with dark blue gloss paint. It looked OK see pic:

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 17, 2007, 05:01:40 PM
Fair comment Collin, but in that case they should not hype as many in Germany are not to happy with its accuracy, the last place you want to launch a partwork which is an icon if it's accuracy description only turns out to be hype ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 17, 2007, 05:20:57 PM
Yes, I have been following this thread with some interest and am aware of the criticism. I suppose there are two aspects to the degree of accuracy though. One involves getting the basics right such as the stern anchor which would be apparent at any scale, while the other is concerned with just how detailed can you expect a 1:200 scale model to be? i.e you need to show the scuttles but not necessarily glaze them. Errors of the first type are not acceptable but the amount of detail you'd expect to be shown would depend on the abilities of individual modellers. If Hatchette did supply the eyebrows for the scuttles is it reasonable to expect the average subscriber to be able to attach them accurately without going nuts! They also seem to be taking some liberties with the stern design and shaft alignment for the working model which I wouldn't be too happy about - it's a bit too close to the old practice of adding a bit to the hull depth to improve stability for my liking and means that the model will not look accurate when out of the water.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 17, 2007, 05:22:51 PM
There are very few kits that will satisfy all you have to remember who this kit is aimed at.  and I would have thought its aimed at a very broad group because of the way it was advertised and sold.  it has to be  able to be built by a novice thats why its not sold through the trade, and at the end of the day someone will have a nice model representing the bismark. as modelers we add our own flair to the build and add or change things we don't like , how many kits do yo see in shops will fit through your letter box as mail ?
I think at the end of the day there is a good basis for all ability's to get what they want out of it..

Peter

Sorry I was posting this at the same time as colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on August 17, 2007, 10:40:18 PM
I think Colin and Peter I think have said it all very eloquently regarding scale, accuracy what can be expected of modellers of average ability. Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 17, 2007, 11:08:38 PM

Done a bit more on my build.......  Here  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg55009#msg55009)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on August 17, 2007, 11:12:27 PM
Looking good Martin
I wonder ,at this late stage ,of the possibilities of getting all the partworks now from week 1 to today ? then carrying on the build . Maybe a call /email to Hatchette would be in order . I have always been a slow starter  ;D ;D

Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on August 17, 2007, 11:13:41 PM


as for the unscale depth of the hull, when a model is on the water who really notices it? the bow thurusters on the sydney star kit at 1/200th are about 2x overscale!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on August 18, 2007, 12:10:04 AM
looking good martin, what time does boots open...kidding mate.....still on issue 13 and going well.....but tired now so off to la la land as te little un has footy practise in the am
cheers robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 18, 2007, 08:31:25 AM
They also seem to be taking some liberties with the stern design and shaft alignment for the working model which I wouldn't be too happy about - it's a bit too close to the old practice of adding a bit to the hull depth to improve stability for my liking and means that the model will not look accurate when out of the water.

Very interesting last paragraph comment Collin and your input is very much appreciated O0


Coming along nicely Martin ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 18, 2007, 08:41:07 AM


as for the unscale depth of the hull, when a model is on the water who really notices it? the bow thurusters on the sydney star kit at 1/200th are about 2x overscale!

I agree at a distance your right, but as this model is also being sold as a staic display model then the detail should be as accurate as possible becuse that is what Amati claim this model to be ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on August 18, 2007, 10:16:19 AM
Hi Peter, Sorry to go back a bit but ref the Allen head bolts in my part of the enginering world these are often referred to as 'Caphead' or 'Socket head'. The bolt part of the description would indicate that it is only threaded for part of its length and I cannot remember what proportion that is. A screw (machine screw) is threaded along its whole length. Bolts give a more accurate and stronger shear joint and so machine screws are to be found clamping plates which have been accurately located using steel dowels particularly in things like injection mould tools. I expect a lot of you already know this so sorry if this is stating the bleedin obvious. Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 18, 2007, 10:47:15 AM
Most good model shops who sell model car spares should have the correct ones that have a threaded along its whole length, they where being used on 12th scale cars 25 plus years ago , I'm not shore what size they are for the 380 motors but tamya bugeys had that size motor in some cars, as for the names I could never understand how they came about some of the names for bolts, the other thing to watch is not to use some of the light weight bolts sold for the fly boys as they don't last that long.. one last note the length ...this has to be worked out with care as 1/8 to long or about 3mm can lock the armature and as they will be using wood mounts I would suggest some large washers or make a plate to bolt through to spread the load and make adjustment possible as the wood may become dented. I hope I am explaining this properly ..  thanks Graham. Ill stay out of this thread now as I'm not building one

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 18, 2007, 10:52:13 AM
With regard to the detail I think we could sum up by saying that what you can actually see on the model should be correct but that the extent of detail to be shown will be governed by the relatively small scale.

Thinking about the suggestion to use bandaging and wood glue to seal/reinforce the interior of the hull, I'm wondering if those materials were chosen simply because they are readily available on the high street. The obvious (to us) suggestion of polyester resin and grp tissue might put the average punter off a bit. Actually, I reckon that resin and modelling tissue would probably do the job.

Maybe you'll find that, having bandaged up the inside of the boat, they'll suggest you paint a Red Cross on the foredeck instead of a Swastika!  ;)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: splodger on August 18, 2007, 11:02:21 AM


Maybe you'll find that, having bandaged up the inside of the boat, they'll suggest you paint a Red Cross on the foredeck instead of a Swastika!  ;)



Here's an interesting thought, maybe full-size shipbuilders could learn a thing or two from us modellers. If the original Bismarck had been built with all the inside surfaces of the hull covered with bandage and wood glue, perhaps it wouldn't have sunk, and that would make the model a bit more true to scale as well. On the other hand, I bet that Blohm und Voss didn't have to wait for weekly component deliveries to come through their letterbox though, so maybe this isn't a very sensible suggestion.


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on August 18, 2007, 11:18:28 AM
Hi Peter. I am not building one either so maybe I should stay out of the thread but I find it a very interesting build especially Martin's adventure with the the plank and frame. So I just chuck my two penneth in when I think I can add to the general knowledge on the site. I did not mean to put you off as you are quite correct in what you say about motor mounting bolt length especially when using wood. Washers under the heads are essential. I have done it incorrectly and locked the rotor which immediately applies the stall current which in turn discovers weather the speed controller is correctly rated. Cheers Graham  8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 18, 2007, 11:41:54 AM


This is the motor mount I've used before, a cut down pen display case.....

(Used in my Matchbox Corvette Lightship 'Fastelight')
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 19, 2007, 02:02:58 AM
I have been following this thread with interest, not that I'm thinking of buying one, but it seems the earlier fears of some that the series would not go the distance were unfounded. The Bismarck part work is now being heavily advertised on TV here in Australia, so it must have been a commercial success in the UK.
Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 19, 2007, 09:49:09 AM
Looking at the offer leaflet this Bismarck series is either already on sale or to go on sale in the following countries:
Germany, UK, Ireland, Poland, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, France & Italy.

So yes it is very likey to  have been a successful commercial venture as I bet the customer figures are in thousands per country rather than hundreds, X that by £700+ per customer makes it a nice little earner for someone :o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Brian1960clock on August 29, 2007, 09:54:59 AM
Hello gentlemen,
                         I'm new to the forum. Just placed my order for the Bismarck series after reading the comments from all of you. Expecting my first delivery of parts soon.  Is anyone on this forum from Australia ?

                 Brian from Melbourne , Australia.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 29, 2007, 10:15:12 AM
Welcome Brian!

Will you be building youe model as Static or RC?

Regards,
Martrin
(ps. I'm in Peterborough, England.)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 29, 2007, 11:57:51 AM
Further info about payment for the Hachette RC pack:

Once customers have sent in their £10 deposit, they will be sent a letter explaining the detail, the balance of £115 should be paid by the 28th of Feb 2008, they are unable to accept instalments.

Those who pay via credit/debit card or direct debit, payment will be taken 7 days before despatch of the pack which will be the last week of March 2008 as issue 58 goes on sale on the 2nd of April which contains the info for RC instalation.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on August 29, 2007, 01:52:40 PM
Hello gentlemen,
                         I'm new to the forum. Just placed my order for the Bismarck series after reading the comments from all of you. Expecting my first delivery of parts soon.  Is anyone on this forum from Australia ?

                 Brian from Melbourne , Australia.
There is cbr900 and bigfella from Oz, just two who spring to mind.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 29, 2007, 02:31:12 PM
is down below a give away, orrrrrrrrr, is there another conotation?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 29, 2007, 03:02:54 PM
Nope... a UK based Brit thru n thru, wish I was down below though....the thought of gallons of 4x coming out me ears and those cool ozzy babes sounds mighty appealing ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on August 29, 2007, 03:20:32 PM
And also don't forget the warm sunny days with lots of boating activity......... ::) ::) ::)




Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on August 29, 2007, 03:23:41 PM
Yeah then come down to earth thinking about the naff UK weather :(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on August 29, 2007, 05:41:48 PM
Yeah then come down to earth thinking about the naff UK weather :(
Nothing wrong with our weather, the suns shining and not a cloud in the sky. 8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: adam07 on August 30, 2007, 09:37:15 AM
yes brain
my name is Adam and i am up in north queensland.
I too am expecting my first shipment soon to can't wait.
where abouts in melb you from.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: adam07 on August 30, 2007, 09:46:36 AM
the suns shining with not a cloud in the sky 364 days a year here, 8)
give me a rainy day anytime O0
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 30, 2007, 02:19:18 PM
wish i hadnt said anything now. leave of about the Babes, you can keep the 4x.
and leave it out about the weather, rubbing salt in or wot!
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on August 30, 2007, 03:46:30 PM
Colin,

But when it does rain here it does not muck around, up north of me had last week 1000 millimetres of rain in 48 hours, just a drop in the ocean........ ::) ::)



Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gary r uk on August 30, 2007, 09:01:34 PM
hello
ebay has issue 20-23 if anybody needs them a few days to go
cheers
gary
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Brian1960clock on August 31, 2007, 03:02:03 AM
yes brain
my name is Adam and i am up in north queensland.
I too am expecting my first shipment soon to can't wait.
where abouts in melb you from.

Hi Adam and all,   I'm from Northcote, Melbourne. Martin, I will build my model as a static ship. I have built Amati's H.M.S Bounty and was very impressed with the quality of timber and fittings. This is my first battleship model, as I mostly build sailing ship models. 

               Cheers   Brian.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on August 31, 2007, 06:25:15 AM
Hi all,

Iwill be building my Bismark as a full RC version..................


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 31, 2007, 11:30:11 PM
Well I'm going to spend some time over the weekend building model boats..........! :-\

Anyway, I've bought some "gauze", which one do you think I should use?


(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1775Small.jpg)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1774Small.jpg)


The reel is self adhesive builders 'scrim' and the other stuff is comm or garden bandage.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on August 31, 2007, 11:35:07 PM
id say use the builder stuff, more durable.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 31, 2007, 11:53:38 PM
Martin, how is PVA type glue going to bond with mesh that open? I don't think that even resin would work with that. Before plastering the inside of your pride and joy at least put it on a test piece first and see what happens: 1) does it actually set properly to the underlying surface?; 2) does it improve strength?

I think that Hatchette are making a very dodgy suggestion here. Be very careful before committing yourself as you'll never get it out if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: PSSHIPS on August 31, 2007, 11:57:03 PM
A suggestion. Have a look in Halfords for some Davids tissue for use with their glass resin, it worked for me for years before I descovered propper fibrglass.
 Hope this helps.
 Paul...
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: chingdevil on September 01, 2007, 09:07:39 AM
Martin

I still do not think that guy in yellow has any idea what he is doing, sack him and get a proper model boat builder in, YOU ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Brian
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 01, 2007, 10:54:53 AM
Yes, looks like Bob the Bodger - "Can we fix it? No we can't!"
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 03, 2007, 02:40:26 PM
Martin

Suppose your hands are tied if you are bulding by the book with going the magazine/Amati method of Gauze n PVA,  in that case I would go with the smaller web of the two as that is the approx size the mag shows.

Having said that I would not go this route at all and go via the PSSHIPS method, also it seems some in Germany have used a product from Graupner called 'Glattfix' for sealing but dont think it is available in the UK, I think this is only a sealing agent so unsure if there is any strength to it ;)

Also I hear that the Hull scuttle/porthole eyebrow's are to be supplied as PE parts at some point in the series O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on September 03, 2007, 04:53:36 PM
reckon you are making a grave for yourself going witht the hatchet method (pva). pop down local model shop and get some cloth and resin.
or try local chandlers and try there stuff. you can thin it out a bit using Meths. use only a very small amount though.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 05, 2007, 09:24:24 AM


I think I have to go with Down below / Hachette on this one. Gauze (bandage) and PVA.
I don't think it the best or easiest method by far but it certainly not the worse.
.... The bow section is going to be a real bitch!

"pass me that bucket of PVA Bradders!"
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: madrob on September 05, 2007, 10:40:16 AM
Planking finished......YES   O0   O0


Happy? me? never   ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 05, 2007, 11:09:16 AM
Martin,

Over here PVA is also available in waterproof variety, adding that to your builders tape will work very well, I use the glue all the time..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 07, 2007, 10:30:01 PM

Oh Dear........!  :( 

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1823.jpg)

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg58519#msg58519 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg58519#msg58519)


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on September 07, 2007, 11:32:34 PM
Looks like a poor idea from Hachette  >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: edible_engine on September 08, 2007, 01:11:09 AM
why dont you just use standard glass fiber ot cloth and resin ??
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on September 08, 2007, 03:38:57 AM
ROLF.  I'm glad I'm not bothering with this ;)

Have you tried painting the inside of the hull with PVA, then applying dry gauze to the glued surface ?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 08, 2007, 05:41:07 AM
Martin,

When sealing the inside of my boats, I use a gauze which is used by plasterers, it has a reasonably open weave but is already sticky one side, cut and stick then simply paint with waterproof PVA, seems to work quite well..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on September 08, 2007, 06:54:03 AM
go with rolf, its the way you would apply resin and cloth more or less. paint the inside with a slightly thined down mix, so it soaks into the wood, let it get tacky, then give it another coat, apply dry cloth and stipple it down with a dry brush. if need be you can give it another coat.
have fun
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 08, 2007, 07:19:54 AM

I'm trying to stick as closely as possible to the instructions but this method seems to be a fools errand ....

mark_1984 - yes tried that but the gauze has no weight of stiffness at all and PVA is not 'sticky'!. It's like trying to decorate with toilet paper.

cbr900 - yes I bought some builders gauze (see below) and will try that next...... :-\

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 08, 2007, 08:59:27 AM
Not  good is it :'(

I wonder if Amati have really thought this one through as in how customers will manage to do it right as I bet loads wont which then makes the task pointless!

I cant quite get my head around how they arrived at this method as being suitable for a model that is to hit the water, for one reason alone, they do not advise the use of waterproof PVA to apply the gauze!

So is there thinking that the use of standard PVA & gauze is simply to add strength rather than seal the inner of the hull??......because if there is a seal element required then they potentially have a major disaster on there hands!

I think this gauze n PVA advice from what is supposed to be one of the worlds largest wooden model boat manufacturers is naff, I cant undertand why they did not advise the use of resin as they expect customers to buy everything else to finish this model so why not advise something that is a tried n tested method instead of some hair brained idea that might mean ships sink!!

Martin -

Step 1 of issue 18 describes the Gauze & PVA method as "sealing the Hull with caulking", not a word on doing this with a waterproof PVA!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kayem on September 08, 2007, 10:37:58 AM
Not  good is it :'(

I wonder if Amati have really thought this one through as in how customers will manage to do it right as I bet loads wont which then makes the task pointless!



I think you're right about Amati not having thought this through, in fact it looks to me as if they're making quite a lot of it up as they go along. I suppose that Martin has to go along with what they advise, but if I were building one of these Amati Bismarcks that I'd paid for with my own money, I'd do quite a lot of things differently, especially sheathing the inside of the hull. Where it's accessible, I'd use neatly tailored squares of 300gm glass mat with  polyester resin stippled into it, if you wanted the best possible result, glass cloth and epoxy would be even better, but I have a minor allergy to epoxy so don't use the stuff except as an adhesive. It's where the sharp end of the hull isn't too accessible that problems start of course. What I'd do is use a syringe to inject a fairly generous quantity of resin into each hull compartment, taping over any gaps in the planking first to stop the stuff running through, then turn the hull every which way to make sure that it has got into every nook & cranny, and lastly use bits of kitchen towel held in tweezers to remove the excess if anything more than a small puddle looks like developing before the stuff cures. For obvious reasons, you can only do one compartment at a time with this method, you have to let one lot set before you pour any more wet stuff into the next area. Epoxy is a bit better than polyester for this, but you have to use the  runny stuff sold for laminating, it wouldn't work with epoxy adhesive. I have some planked hulls treated in this way with standard polyester laminating resin, glass reinforcement added only where it was reasonably easy to get at during construction, and they're as good as the day they were treated after 15 or more years of sailing in sea water.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on September 08, 2007, 10:40:20 AM
Martin might I suggest using this PVA . Have used it in 1:1 boat construction.

UniBond Super PVA Adhesive & Sealer
 
Safe & Simple to use, UniBond Super PVA Adhesive & Sealer is the toughest, fastest, strongest and longest lasting PVA you can buy.

 
 
Use UniBond Super PVA for
 
· Bonding
· Woodworking
· Hobbies & Crafts
· General Repair
· Priming Old Porous or Dusty Surfaces
· Priming Gloss Paint to Take Wallpaper
· Stiffening Fabrics

 
 
Available in following sizes
 
· 250ml Tin
· 500ml Tin
· 1ltr Can
· 2.5ltr Can
· 4lt Jerry Can
· 5ltr Can

 
Apply one coat to wood. When tacky apply fabric then recoat with PVA. O0

http://www.makingdiyeasier.co.uk/unibond/pdf/pva.pdf
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 08, 2007, 10:45:27 AM
The best bit is that it seems the outer of the hull planking is simply to be sealed by the paint, combine that with a non waterproof PVA on the inner hull and you have a model that wont be sailing for too long if it gets paint chips etc., even better is the mag dont advise the use of waterproof PVA for the build ::)

Maybe the model was never meant to be around for to long as the actual ship was not around for too long either ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 08, 2007, 10:47:12 AM
Dicky - is it waterproof??
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on September 08, 2007, 10:55:01 AM
Dicky - is it waterproof??

Certainly is.
When it first came out many years ago my father was building a cabin cruiser and he glued several pieces of teak together and left them in a barrel of water for several days.
No way he could get them apart.
Also we used it all the time in the building industry. It can also be used for sealing concrete floors etc.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 08, 2007, 10:59:54 AM
Thanks for that O0

From B & Q I presume?

Have never used it, also like the idea of it being user friendly which is probably why Amati suggested the PVA method but sadly it dont seem to work as well as they thought it might :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gribeauval on September 08, 2007, 01:13:38 PM
I line all my hulls with waterprooof PVA, normally Unibond Super PVA, and cheap non-woven cleaning cloths (they act like glass fibre finishing mat). I even do the outside when adding a finishing layer of diagonal planks. As yet I have never had a leak in any hull! ;)

Mike
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on September 08, 2007, 01:16:56 PM
That's very nice work Mr Grib, very neat.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 08, 2007, 05:01:51 PM
A new one on me and very useful to know O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 09, 2007, 10:46:41 AM
Martin

Re the issue 18 sealing of the hull with PVA & Gauze.

The crazy thing is that if you look at step 1 of issue 18, it does not advise to seal the very forward inner hull compartment of the bow, it shows at step 3 to start at the next compartment back.

We know why which is because access into the forward inner bow is ny impossible re sealing it as a result of the build/design, but what concerns me more is that they have simply side stepped it and do not suggest any method to seal the inner hull at the forward bow point, so as a result it is now likely many who are novices and know no better will not seal this part of the inner hull basically cos the mag does not tell you to do so!

It would have been better to make part 35 so it was removable so we could position the ribs rather than glueing it in place at issue 7, this would allow easier access to seal the back of the planking at the forward point of the Bow, then simply glue part 35 in place when done ;)

This has to be a major future concern as the Bow front with no inner sealing is then reliant on the outer paint job to stop water ingress into the planking/hull, this combined with those who have not used a waterproof PVA (the mag did not recommend it)) will no doubt lead to problems at some point and especially at the Bow where surely the model is most likely to get knocks & chips into the exterior paint??

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 09, 2007, 11:07:05 AM
Using the cleaning cloths with resin is a novel idea. I used to do the same thing very successfully with nappy liner tissues when sheathing the outside of my hulls. When it cures the resin is the hardest part of the mix and much easier to rub down than the glass fibres you get in GRP tissues and it's perfectly strong enough. The cleaning cloths would seem to be a very good alternative.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gerrybuilt on September 10, 2007, 12:06:32 AM
Hi Martin,
Just thought I would share my experience of caulking with you, if you have n't already gone past that part yet.
 I cut pieces of gauze to shape and length. Place in position and hold firmly. Fill your brush with glue and place gently onto gauze. Let the glue flow on to the gauze. Don't try to spread the glue , you will only displace the gauze. Just keep filling your brush with glue and soak the gauze. Move the brush down and away for the next brushful, not straight off the surface of the gauze, otherwise it will displace. Once you have completely swamped and soaked the gauze it wont move much and you can spread the glue evenly,  and then make any adjustments to the position of same.

I hope this is of use to you.

P.S. How do I get emoticons to go where I want them?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 10, 2007, 01:07:37 PM
Hi Gerrybuilt,

That was the method I did try but the Gause just has no substance and lifts off with the brush.... it's lighter than tissue paper!  :P
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 10, 2007, 01:32:45 PM
Thats the big advantage of the plasteres tape cut it to shape and stick it in then seal with the w/pva jobs done..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 10, 2007, 01:54:48 PM
Martin

It seems there is yet another ship partwork series on sale, another Titanic at 120 issues long and supposidly this time with lighting.
The info said it was from Hachette but so far can't find any evidence of this version neither on TV on sale or around the net other than there old Titanic series which was 100 issues long.

It must exist as the guy says he has bought issue 1 at £1, issue 2 costs £2.99 and the regular price is £5, wonder if it is some kind of a test?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 10, 2007, 03:28:16 PM
I hear the first Titanic series made into a nice boat once ballasted correctly.


I think I'll have a go with the Scrim Tape this week with waterproof PVA.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 10, 2007, 03:53:01 PM
Are you sure it's not the Mantua version you are talking about as the Amati version was static display model, it got well slated for its accuracy & build problems, something about some if its detail having been copied from its sister ship rather than it being from the Titanic!

Titanic as an RC model is renound for its stabilty problems!

Not sure if this new version version is Static, RC or both,  but either way as its likely to be a re-hash of the old Amati Titanic, I for one will most definately be leaving this new venture well alone if it goes on general release as heard & read too many bad vibes about the old Amati version :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 10, 2007, 04:02:28 PM
Have you thought about a watered down coat over the scrim just to hold it, 50/50 with water . when dry give it the coat to seal/stiffen  it.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 10, 2007, 04:52:51 PM
Yes, that's the way I think I'll do it.
I might even put two layers of scrim if required.

.... that bow section, they're having a laugh!

Have you thought about a watered down coat over the scrim just to hold it, 50/50 with water . when dry give it the coat to seal/stiffen  it.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 10, 2007, 05:49:24 PM
And the bow extremity is where the concern lies as no info in the mag re sealing it, the only way is via any inititaive you come up with yourself otherwise this part will remain unsealed and at risk ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on September 10, 2007, 06:02:33 PM
Martin can you not epoxy resin the bow section with a couple of thinned down coats. You know, swill it about a bit. :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peterm on September 10, 2007, 06:27:07 PM
What I have done with similar problems in the past is to pour resin into the void by means of some 3/4 inch plastic piping, then as suggested, swill it around a bit.   Pete M
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 10, 2007, 06:52:33 PM
What are all the German Bismarck builders doing in this regard Down Below?

And the bow extremity is where the concern lies as no info in the mag re sealing it, the only way is via any initiative you come up with yourself otherwise this part will remain unsealed and at risk ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 10, 2007, 08:19:27 PM
Markus has used a product from Graupner called 'Glattfix' which is a paint on type hull sealer which sounds the bis!

Unfortunately it seems this stuff is not available in the UK but he can get hold of it to send to the UK, it sounds thin  enough to be poured to coat the inaccessible parts and the excess poured out.

Other's have siimply poured a waterproof PVA down the gap and poured away the excess, the only problem with this is that it could be hit n miss if not done carefully, you could do the same with resin.

Most seem to have ditched the PVA n Gauze for resin.

I like the sound of that Unibond PVA stuff mentioned previously.

Suppose its a case of what you prefer and what you are used to handling, but I  do think the extreme bow should sealed simply because of the likely hood of knocks etc on the exterior atwhat is a vulnerable point, once the skin is broken your stuffed!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on September 10, 2007, 09:19:10 PM
has paypal, will deliver to GB  O0

http://cgi.ebay.de/Porenfueller-Glattfix-100ml-Graupner-207_W0QQitemZ260156287175QQihZ016QQcategoryZ9162QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 11, 2007, 07:53:57 AM
Thanks for that Jan O0

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on September 11, 2007, 09:28:33 AM
And you can buy some more cans, not only one. Shiping to GB 11€.

No, i am not into it  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gerrybuilt on September 11, 2007, 08:35:14 PM
Hi Martin,

My big concern is, that, I have glued the fore deck in place. There is now no access to the bow compartments. I sealed the  A B C D sections, as per the instructions, using the gauze, but there was no advice as to the inaccessable forward comps. I think that to reach the parts I should use a can of Heinecken.  It is supposed to reach the parts others wont!!

Seriosly tho'. What if I drill into the deck and pour some 'stuff' into the hole? Any comments?

Gerrybuilt
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 11, 2007, 09:17:09 PM
.... on the quiet... I'm thinking of painting/pouring a coat waterproof PVA inside the hull (to glue & seal the planks) and using Epoxy Finishing Resin and Glassfibre tissue.... and Bradders is gonna do that for me!  
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 11, 2007, 10:08:43 PM
Gerrybuilt,

Do you have access through the bulkhead rather than the deck? If so it doesn't really matter. What I would do in your situation is to drill a hole in either the bulkhead or the deck (it can be filled in later). Then mix up some polyester resin, such as Fastglass from Halfords, and pour it into the bow compartment. Tape off the hole and then wave the hull about a bit to ensure that the resin covers all the internal surfaces. Then mount the hull right way up but with a bow down angle of 30 degrees or so. This will ensure that all the surplus resin accumulates in the lower bow section when it cures where it will provide the reinforcement you need.

Colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 12, 2007, 07:56:37 AM
Good idea if there is only one bulkhead to drill through.

The problem is that are 6 bulkheads and all are individual compartments once planked and access to drill thru these would be just about impossible, however it is possible to pour resin/glue down the inner surfaces from above but once the forward deck is glued into place this would be impossible.

The only way would be to drill small holes in the forward deck at each bow compartment and then do as Collin says, then seal the holes, theses will later be covered by deck planking etc.

Its quite obvious this kit was only ever meant to be a static display model as the bow sealing would then not an issue, the design for RC has not allowed full considertion of lots of things and the bow inner hull sealing is just scratching the surface.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 12, 2007, 08:48:10 AM
The other option is of course to seal the outside before painting. This could be a fairly large job if using tissue and resin but I have successfully used shellac which penetrates the wood and gives a very hard and smooth easy to rub down finish. Another option would be to "plate" the hull with gumstrip paper using Cascamite/Extramite glue to moisten and attach the gumstrip followed by shellac or sanding sealer on the gumstrip. It's easy to do and rubs down well for the final paint finish. I used it on my Granada model 25 years ago and it has never lifted, even after 5 years hard use afloat.

As Down Below says, it was intended to be a static model and they seem to be making it up as they go along!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 12, 2007, 09:08:57 AM
All good info Collin O0

The best bit is that its seems Amati are relying on a coat of varnish to seal the outer of the Hull so the Bow inner sealing will very reliant on exterior varnish and paint to seal it.
I would have thought that the Bow was a very important place to seal due to its vulnerabilty, seems ludicrous to me but then again what do I know ;D

Could it be that Amati's inexperience of RC wooden boats is now showing through rather than the static display models they have expertise in??

Just seen a link to a UK supplier of the Graupner Glattfix hull sealing product.

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/fillers.html



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 12, 2007, 03:25:05 PM
Martin

Have you had any thoughts about sealing the removable deck to the hull to prevent water ingress, as I cant see there being any info from Amati to do this.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 12, 2007, 04:25:15 PM


I've just been out this lunchtime to get some Unibond Super PVA as TrickyDicky suggested but I wasn't convinced it is waterproof, as it didn't say anything about being waterproof on the tin... not that I'm doubting you Dicky!  :)  So I bought some Unibond Exterior PVA Exterior...... I wonder if they all come from the same big tub anyway.  ::) http://www.makingdiyeasier.co.uk/unibond/woodglue.html

I've started painting the interior with PVA now so I'm going to have another go with the builders/plasters scrim tonight. If it still doesn't work, I'll just going to paint a coat of PVA inside anyway to glue/seal the planks.

My preferred sealing method these days is a can of Plasticoat Clear Satin varnish, 2 minutes and the job is done!  :'(

Must ask Shane about sealing the outside of the hull, he seems to have it 'down pat'  Here  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3729.msg53061#msg53061) .

I haven't thought about the deck seal yet.... leave me alone!  :D

Martin  ;)


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 12, 2007, 05:15:37 PM
 ;D ;D

Bin the PVA & Guaze :'(
 
Why dont you use that Graupner Glattfix stuff noted above as a UK supplier has been found, its simplicity in itself, you can also use it for sealing the hull outer (much better than the varnish being recommended), simply paint on and get some kip :D

Glattfix here we come O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 12, 2007, 06:31:38 PM

Bin the PVA & Guaze :'(
Glattfix here we come O0

I've already started the interior with the PVA so I committed to that.   :'(
I have no idea what changing half way through will do to the wood but it won't be a good effect!  :-\ 

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 12, 2007, 08:20:35 PM
Fair comment, mind you I suspect the Gauze is to hold the inner planking together as one rather than strengthen it so it might be best to simply persevere as the Glatfix stuff is merely a sealer ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on September 12, 2007, 08:46:41 PM
if the outside is water proof then why worry so much about the inside?
cover the outside in resin and thin cloth, same as the aircraft folks.
that way water is not going to get in.
colin


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 12, 2007, 09:03:45 PM
if the outside is water proof then why worry so much about the inside?
cover the outside in resin and thin cloth, same as the aircraft folks.
that way water is not going to get in.
colin

Through the top, prop shaft leaks, wave swamping....... bad workmanship!  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on September 12, 2007, 09:38:15 PM
Wood must be sealed on the in- and outside, simply use glattfix or similar  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 13, 2007, 07:59:42 AM
Glatfix sounds a great sealer but I dont think it also replicate's the task that the gauze is intended for, is not the idea of the gauze to securely hold the inner planking holding it as one/prevent movement?

Why else would Amati recommend it as it is the waterproof PVA part that does the sealing does it not or have i missed something?

In which case to give what amati intended the better method to go with has to be resin and tissue as Colin says , maybe then use Glattfix on the outer as there are areas such as the exteme bow which are inaccessible to inner sealing cos of the daft design ;)

Seems like we have a plan :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 13, 2007, 08:24:15 AM
It's only a problem if you feel you have to go along with the Amati suggestions. If you were building a plank on frame working model from scratch then the normal practice would be to seal the inside with resin to improve rigidity, with or without tissue, although I do like Mike's cleaning cloth idea. Then you would want to sheath the exterior to waterproof it and harden it against the inevitable knocks. This can either be done by impregnating the wood with thin sealer such as shellac or by covering with something such as gumstrip or tissue and resin to provide a tough coating.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 13, 2007, 09:36:06 AM
Thanks for that Colin, not a chance of Gauze & PVA, resin & tissue for the inner ad am gonna give that Glattfix stuff a whirl for the outer.

I agree that cleaning cloth idea, very innovative O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gribeauval on September 13, 2007, 09:55:19 AM
I agree that cleaning cloth idea, very innovative O0

It's also cheap, easily available, easy to cut and doesn't cause irritation to the skin like glass fibre can do! 
You can also use it with resin or even polyurethane varnish as well as PVA depending upon your needs/what you have available. ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on September 13, 2007, 11:28:11 AM
Hi everyone, been busy on holidays and back now on sic leave, oh joy.....starting week 15 and planking along, new kt as well so appreciate the flower class thread. looks like the regatta weekend was fun according to new isssue of modelboat.
cheers robert
am contemplating glatfix when I get t that stage
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 14, 2007, 04:01:45 PM
I hear the first Titanic series made into a nice boat once ballasted correctly.


These guys dont think so and plenty more where this came from......

http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=11937&mesg_id=11937&listing_type=search

http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=11937&mesg_id=18209&page=




Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 21, 2007, 11:08:53 PM
you said you could not get glue in the first section how about drilling a small hole on top and filling a syringe with glue (may need to be thinned a bit ) and squeeze it in .

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 21, 2007, 11:18:43 PM
Drill a hole in my pride a joy?!?!?  You're talking crazy man!  :D

Might use "Super 'Phatic" that's very thin.
I'll have a think about that over the weekend...
Martin ;)


you said you could not get glue in the first section how about drilling a small hole on top and filling a syringe with glue (may need to be thinned a bit ) and squeeze it in .

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 21, 2007, 11:23:51 PM
only needs to be small

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Voyager on September 22, 2007, 01:12:41 AM
I think i would have given up on this long ago if i was doing it :P Nice to see someone stick to it!!! (No puns intended!)

From someone who's never worked with wood before :-X What's the reason for sealing it from the inside, I've often seen people coat the wood on the outside with sanding sealer or waterproof PVA? Better still would someone please start a thread on how best to work with wood, what's the best wood to work with, how best to treat the wood, what varnish to use, would be helpful to us newbies like myself who have always fancied the challenge but are frightend of all the unknowns :embarrassed:

Keep up the good work Martin...were all watching with interest O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on September 22, 2007, 04:09:25 AM
Tongue in cheeck comment about sealing, but how much sealing do you really need to do ?
How much sealer is applied to the inside of a barrel  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 22, 2007, 04:23:33 PM
I think the Amati idea of the gauze is that once it is dry it will hold the 1st planking secure whilst we merrily sand away the 1st planking on the outside, some how I dont think gauze will stop any leaks ;D...... surely its simply the PVA part that does that ::)

For peace of mind a coat of Glattfix on the outer skin after the 2nd planking would be a very good idea ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 22, 2007, 06:38:48 PM
This must without doubt be the case as Amati advise the PVA & Gauze method in issue 18 for both versions of this model (static display & RC), why else would you want to go to all the hassle of applying PVA & Gauze to the inner hull of a static dispaly model if the gauze was not for keeping the planking secure....it just happens that the PVA applied also does a sealing job (hopefully) for the RC version, though they are daft enough not to mention that the PVA should be a waterproof type :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 26, 2007, 01:24:28 AM
Martin are you going to fit the plastic bits before you put the second layer of planks on ,that way you can plank up to the plastic bits.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 26, 2007, 10:56:30 AM
Hi Peter,

Apparently the stern piece to not quite correct, something to do with someone forgetting to allow for the second layer of planking, there is a fix in a later issue......  :-\

Picture of the PVA interior later today....  :o

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 26, 2007, 11:02:54 AM
Depending on what there fix is . it may be a help as you could run the planks on to it about Half an inch  (15mm) and then fair it in , that would hold it  and make it a good solid job and reduce the amount of it showing.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 26, 2007, 11:43:44 AM
HS93, its not the stern part shown that has the problem, it is the other stern resin part No.70.

Martin - The problem had nothing to do with 2nd planking it is to do with the original resin part (#70 in iss 23) having an inaccurate anchor recess, the new version of this stern resin part comes in 35, there is an insert note in 21 re this and the options ;)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 26, 2007, 08:28:05 PM
That looks good Martin , definitely better than the bandage..

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on September 27, 2007, 08:19:32 AM
very neat. can i borrow youre painter? looks like he is a tidy and clevre worker. what are his hourly rates?
nice one
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on September 27, 2007, 07:41:58 PM
Hi all, Well crude modeller that I am I squirted some old 'no nails' that I had kicking around in the shed all around the inside of the St Canute on the principle that I had previously used it to glue a brick to the concrete floor of the rifle range and it is still there despite the floods so I assumed it was filling the gaps, was waterproof and strong. Cheers Graham  :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 29, 2007, 10:49:24 AM
Martin might I suggest using this PVA . Have used it in 1:1 boat construction.

UniBond Super PVA Adhesive & Sealer
 
Safe & Simple to use, UniBond Super PVA Adhesive & Sealer is the toughest, fastest, strongest and longest lasting PVA you can buy.

 
 
Use UniBond Super PVA for
 
· Bonding
· Woodworking
· Hobbies & Crafts
· General Repair
· Priming Old Porous or Dusty Surfaces
· Priming Gloss Paint to Take Wallpaper
· Stiffening Fabrics

 
 
Available in following sizes
 
· 250ml Tin
· 500ml Tin
· 1ltr Can
· 2.5ltr Can
· 4lt Jerry Can
· 5ltr Can

 
Apply one coat to wood. When tacky apply fabric then recoat with PVA. O0

http://www.makingdiyeasier.co.uk/unibond/pdf/pva.pdf

FYI and anyone else who has bought this stuff

I saw this stuff in B&Q this morning which on reading the tin set alarm bells ringing as you later posted it was waterproof, Unibond Super PVA adhesive & sealer is NOT waterproof, it does not suggest this on the tin nor on there tech sheet.

I noted the tech services number and gave them a call, they also confirm it is not waterproof saying it will degrade on water contact even when dry, check it out for yourself 01606 593933 :)

Are you sure you dont mean Unibond Exterior PVA Wood Glue as per what Martin has used?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gerrybuilt on September 30, 2007, 01:54:39 AM
Hi Builders,

Thanks for all the suggestions for getting sealing compound  (of some sort) into the extreme forward compartments.
 Whilst reading your ideas, I suddenly thought, Why not drill into the forward bulkhead, and into the next from the front end.

 I would need to make two holes, one either side of the transverse bulkhead. I could inject sealer therein with a hypodermic I used to refill my printer cartridges with.

 Problem solved because the drill holes will be covered when the resin bow part is attached.

What do you think?

Gerry

Please tell me how to get an emoticon in my posts!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 02, 2007, 08:51:28 AM
Hi Gerry,
I drilled a couple of holes ave used "Super 'Phatic'" (thin sticky PVA) in the 4 bow compartments..... just do what HS93 says!  O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Harold Waters on October 02, 2007, 01:56:08 PM
Martin are you going to fit the plastic bits before you put the second layer of planks on ,that way you can plank up to the plastic bits.

Peter
:( :(I am a new member 2nd oct logged in for the first time.  Harold Waters, was a submariner been retired since 1983.  I do not know how to make my first contribution so I just used the above quote to send my message. I am so dissapointed with Bismarck.  I was always able to finish in 3 weeks four issues.  But the latest issues 28th Sept arrived were completed by 1st oct.  They were an insult. Even though retired I have a very busy life, I was not sat at the model allday.  So I have cancelled.  It took a long time for me to speak to Hatchette there was a long queue I WONDER WHY? Cheers Muddy >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on October 02, 2007, 08:23:28 PM
Its a shame your first post is in disappointment :'(

in defence of Hachette, this is a partwork model so it builds very different to any kit you may likley have come across in the past and at times the build is frustrating.

I dont think the weekly magazine is designed to keep you busy for the day, though having said that certain issues will keep you busy such as the planking, it simply varies from issue to issue.

As for contacting Hachette, when you phone it is actually a call centre who like most call centres tend to take calls on behalf of a number of companies hence the usual wait especially at peak times of the day.

There is no point in sounding off at the call centre if you are unhappy with the series as I doubt it ever gets back to Hachette themselves, the best way is to either write or phone Hachette direct at there London office, feedback is always a good thing be it good or bad as it is how things might get changed for the future, there address is noted on the inside front cover of the 1st page ;)

My personal opinion is that the Amati design & build for this model beggars belief in many ways and has put me off buying any further Amati kits, I plan to see this series thru to its end but as for being tempted by the Amati name in future then forget it ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 03, 2007, 12:53:00 AM
It would seem that the Australian supplier is not much better than Hachettes (Gordon and Gotch), I ordered this model 6 weeks ago and as yet have still not received the first issue, one would think these companies would get there acts together and process orders promtly, and at least start off by trying to satisfy customers, but I will stick it out and wait and complain.............



Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Brian1960clock on October 03, 2007, 07:51:36 AM
It would seem that the Australian supplier is not much better than Hachettes (Gordon and Gotch), I ordered this model 6 weeks ago and as yet have still not received the first issue, one would think these companies would get there acts together and process orders promtly, and at least start off by trying to satisfy customers, but I will stick it out and wait and complain.............



Roy

Hello all,

           I'm an Australian modeller that subscribed to Bismarck 4 weeks ago. I received edition 2 and 3 but was informed that edition 1 is out of stock. The Australian distributor receives monthly editions from the U.K. then does a mail out. I requested any editions that were available, as I'm keen to get cracking, however they only have in stock what's been posted to me.
As to previous comments about the quality of Amati models, I have built H.M.S. Bounty and found the kit contents first class.
I am excited about the Bismarck project as any kit fittings not satisfactory to me will be scratch made. I'm sure most modellers enjoy adding scratch items and improving the model.

                Kindest regards  Brian from Australia.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on October 03, 2007, 08:20:45 AM
Brian you have misssed one key point, this model has been advertised as "being of museum quality distinguishing itself through its attention to detail and accuracy"

So there should be no need to add, change or modify parts, but you are about to find that this kit will meet your wildest desires if you are a scratch builder as there is a lot to put right when it comes to accuracy let alone its buld.

I have bought previous Amati kits and they have been fine, the difference with this kit is that it is a partwork version which for some reason seems to have lots of things that lets say raises the eyebrows, simply visit the german Bisarck web forums for a low down on what they think about the kit!

Even there previous Titanic partwork had its problems that has been widely noted.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on October 05, 2007, 08:23:04 AM
if i were you i would update youre assistants contract, make it watertight {-) so that no one else can head hunt him away from you. he is obviosly worth his weight in gold.
stirling stuff
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gerrybuilt on October 05, 2007, 11:36:37 PM
Hi Gerry,
I drilled a couple of holes ave used "Super 'Phatic'" (thin sticky PVA) in the 4 bow compartments..... just do what HS93 says!  O0

Memo: The First Sea Lord
From: Able seaman Gerrybuilt.

Thank you you Grace, for your advice.

 However, I have glued the forward deck in place and would need to drill into the deck to get some sealing compound into the afforementioned compartments. I believe, upon mature reflection, that this may be the best way to go, rather than my previous suggestion. The forward bulkhead is too narrow to disturb with drilling.
I am grateful for your Lordships advice and guidance.

Yours,

Gerry 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 08, 2007, 06:49:28 PM

My build updated. HERE  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg63624#msg63624)  O0   


Martin.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on October 08, 2007, 07:58:06 PM
oh be wary of who takes you up on youre offer. if there wearing a dirty raincoat, run. and please dont forget youre lickle helpers, protect them at all costs. worth there weight in gold.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 18, 2007, 09:56:58 AM
Finally my first four parts of the Bismark finally turned up, so I am going to experiment and cut out all the parts in balsa and build two for the price of one, and one should be very light.........



Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on October 18, 2007, 10:25:06 AM
Hi Roy,  That would work fine for the wooden parts, but you might find it more difficult reproducing the etched brass parts and cast parts that are likely to follow.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 18, 2007, 01:45:05 PM
Mark,

That may well be true but I am determine to have a bash at it, I will have to waite and see what they throw at me I suppose........ ::) ::)


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on October 18, 2007, 07:07:30 PM
Er, might be a daft question, but why are you duplicating parts in Balsa when the supplied original parts are made of ply?

Balsa is far too soft for this model ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 18, 2007, 09:47:30 PM
I have read every post on this build and at different sections all have stated to build light if possible, so far what I have received in the packs is almost double the weight of the balsa, so therefore it must be lighter and should sail better..

As for not having the strength, I fail to see why not, as it will be built the same and double planked in balsa then given fibreglass matt and resin on the hull which I would be doing whether it is ply or balsa, I have yachts which are A Class built entirely from balsa and are 1.8 metres long and have been happily sailing them for years with no problems, so I think the strenght issue is non existant.........



Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on October 19, 2007, 05:44:34 AM
Hi Roy,  There is little you can't achieve with some inginuity.  I'll look forward to hearing how you get on.

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on October 19, 2007, 07:27:35 AM
Roy, go for it mate. One of our club members has built several large battleships, around the 2.5 metre mark, using balsa covered with fibreglass with no problems at all.
Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: RantandRave on October 19, 2007, 10:38:51 AM
You could try photocoping the parts if possible, then you could cup out and reproduce in almost any size or material.... might be breech of copyright though.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: anmo on October 19, 2007, 11:19:45 AM
You could try photocoping the parts if possible, then you could cup out and reproduce in almost any size or material.... might be breech of copyright though.


I don't think there would be any copyright problem as long as it's purely for your own use, you aren't copying any of the parts to sell, or pass on to someone else. That's UK copyright law though, they may have something a bit different out in the far-flung ex-colonies, though I can't envisage anyone from Hatchette or Amati traveling all that way to impound your Bismarck copy. Like most kits I've seen, this one seems to be massively over engineered and over complicated, never go the simple route and use one piece of wood where you can fit in three or four smaller ones, so if you use some common sense and do it right, you could end up with something much better than the original, at least as far as the hull is concerned.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on October 19, 2007, 02:34:18 PM
I have read every post on this build and at different sections all have stated to build light if possible, so far what I have received in the packs is almost double the weight of the balsa, so therefore it must be lighter and should sail better..

As for not having the strength, I fail to see why not, as it will be built the same and double planked in balsa then given fibreglass matt and resin on the hull which I would be doing whether it is ply or balsa, I have yachts which are A Class built entirely from balsa and are 1.8 metres long and have been happily sailing them for years with no problems, so I think the strenght issue is non existant.........



Roy

Each to there own, sounds a lot of hassle to me, it will be very interesting to see how you get on and am sure Amati will be watching closely too as you seem to know something they dont about this model.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 19, 2007, 09:08:49 PM
Question:
I was under the apprehension that there is / was a 2nd layer of planking but it seem that the 2nd layer is not over the top but just 'around the top' ie. just under the deck - is that correct?

Second question:
If there is only one layer of planking around the main bulk of the hull, when do I start thinking about smoothing out the hull and prepping it for weatherproofing?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on October 20, 2007, 02:07:33 AM
Hi Martin,

The majority of the hull does have a second payer of planking.  In fact all of it except the recessed bit just under the deck.
Don't do anything about waterproofing the outside until the second layer of planking is completed.  Any waterproofing you do on the first layer of planking will just stop the second layer of planking from being glued properly, and wont achieve anything.  Water shouldn't get past the paint/waterproofing on the very outside of the hull.

This link shows you what the Germans have received up to date.  It may (or may not) help.  The second layer planking starts at issue 35.

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_aktuell.htm

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: The long Build on October 23, 2007, 11:41:27 PM
Hi Martin
Did you start getting your issues of the "Build The Bismark" at the start or did you start your subscription a bit later, as a friend of mine who is also building this is up to issue 34-35 and well into the structure like the German site .  Just wondered...


By the way looks it looks nice , I got the first issue but then thought against it..wish I had gone for it now... although to much on now so maybe right decision
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 24, 2007, 04:21:51 PM
I started my subscription about 3 or 4 weeks in, a few teething problems with the delivery of a few issues but soon sorted out.
I've just received issues 29-32 with a binder and a DVD!

.... this wood stuff will never catch on!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: stevenrichie on November 05, 2007, 07:14:14 PM
Hi Martin,
I was beginning to think i was the only modeller who was prepared to shell out this sort of money on a weekly magazine project just for curiosity reasons!!
It has been very interesting looking how far you have gone building the Bismarck,i am just about finishing the planking ready to sort the decks,I think it is going to be money well spent.
I will keep checking to see how you are doing [so i can learn from your build]
Keep up the good work,
Steve Richie CADMA
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 05, 2007, 10:50:31 PM
Hi Steve, how did your planking go?

Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on November 09, 2007, 02:03:25 PM
Hey Martin hows the build going?

Have you seen the German previews & build re the deck planking yet?

The supplied stuff looks awful, its out of scale, the plank lines look too thick and the qty looks wrong compared to the actual ship, never mind the differing shades of part supplied, it wont match from structure to structure!

Seems they have supplied a printed deck outline on a panel rather than supplying what they advertised as it having thin laser cut limewood deck planks.

Iss 61 deck part has a poor print registration in that the plank line on the curve to the right runs out :o

Even there supplied RC set does not include the parts the originally advertised, they show three prop shafts and send two let alone showing plastic rudders that turn out to be self assembly laminated ply versions, wish I knew that magician {-)

Am starting to loose patience big style with this kit >>:-(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Maikiro on November 15, 2007, 01:18:29 PM
Hey All, I see some peeps down under dont have issue one yet.
If you dont then send me a Message with address and I will send the only spare issue one copy I have. It will be missing a paintbrush and crap glue, other than that it does have the magazine and parts... :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 17, 2007, 01:43:29 AM


My build updated -  Parts 22, 23 & 24 - Upper hull planking and stand.  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg70821#msg70821)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 18, 2007, 09:24:16 PM
Greetings Saw-dust Fans,
Way down here in the wrong half of the world we're just looking at Part 11 (planking) and laughing hysterically. With all the spitz und sparkz from the German site about the model, can anyone condense into a series of dot points what they think is wrong with the model? I see a couple of paragraphs running "Ach, if only I'd known that at part xx, I would have mounted it backvords!!" etc, all in a heavy Teutonic accent and I thought I'd try to incorporate this advise.
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 18, 2007, 09:44:41 PM

Use waterproof PVA glue. - You could also use a thick superglue,  very quick!
Don't bother with the internal PVA and gauze thing - I would recommend using a spray varnish / paint to seal the internals.
Shape the plank edges so they fit alongside each other closer.
Shape / contor the ribs so the hull planks are glued to a flat surface.
Decide early on what motor setup you will be using.
Number the parts before separating them, especially the ribs / bulkheads.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 18, 2007, 09:56:28 PM
Thanx mate,
On reading through I see several summations and I'll thank the people individually (when I remember to take note  :embarrassed: ). You mention 'which motor setup. I mean to r/c the model, the setups will probably be covered in the previous 40-odd pages but could you give me a brief rundown on the variations here please?
Double Cheers
Oz
ps. you guys are great  O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 19, 2007, 02:09:47 PM

As you probably knew already , the Bismarck had 3 propellers.
Hatchet are offering a 2 motor setup utilizing motors with gearboxes.
Apparently Hachett will be detailing a two motor installation with dummy 3rd / middle propeller.
I will be using a 2 motor setup but using Graupner parts as supplied by marki53 from Germany.
A third, working centre shaft can be fitted but this will require extensive reworking of the hull and frameworks  - and your on your own if you want to do that! (Marki53 supplies both 2 & 3 motor setups )


http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2830.msg51244#msg51244


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on November 21, 2007, 03:53:09 PM
Martin

Have you seen this?

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/forum/forummessages.asp?dt=1&UTN=208&V=4&SP
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 22, 2007, 12:41:33 AM
Addressed mainly to the Aussies in the crew, the only truly waterproof PVA I can find is 'Great Planes' Aliphatic Resin Glue, this dries 'clear-ish' with a yellow tint. Does anyone have a better choice?
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on November 22, 2007, 01:47:12 AM
I'm using vice grip a waterproof pva.
Jock
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on November 22, 2007, 09:48:07 PM
Oz, I always use Aquadhere Exterior, which claims to be waterproof. So far I have not had any problems, but I always coat the finished model with fibreglass resin before painting, which certainly keeps water out.
Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 23, 2007, 08:44:04 AM
Just wanted to say to Martin - "Brilliant effort mate!". Just like being there really ... but I can't see how you got ALL that sanding (pre issue 11) done in one frame?! I mean really, shouldn't it be sanding; entries 1 to 26?
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 23, 2007, 09:08:55 AM


 >>:-(   Sanding makes me angry!   >>:-(     
Don't ask me for anything after a length hull sanding session!   >:(

And on top of that the 2nd layer of planking arrived this week....  :'(

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 26, 2007, 09:54:03 PM
G'day all (or as my PTI used to say after the 5km run in kit "Are we having fun yet?"),
On motors and setup, does anyone know at what issue Hatchett say "Ok, drop the motors in"? or when and where to fit the r/c? or do those instructions come with the package of props,tubes and motors?

For those that apt for Marki's motors, have you thought of the electronics to go with them yet?
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on November 27, 2007, 02:32:55 AM
I think fitting instructions come with the RC kit, which should be delivered about the same time as issue 58.
I understand that the prop shafts are 6mm tubes, 4mm shafts.  The smart money would be on sanding out the cut outs in the frames before planking the hull.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 27, 2007, 09:01:38 AM

I'm going for a straightforward electronics setup;
2 small speed controllers
(Mtronics MicroVIPER Marine10),
4 to 6 channel receiver,
possibly a rudder / motor mixer,
possibly rotating turrets!  O0

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Stavros on November 27, 2007, 10:23:32 PM
Martin are you slaking as no update on your build since the 17th of Nov tut tut tut >>:-(

Stavros
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on November 27, 2007, 10:25:24 PM
And what about the rest of the puffer-build update on mayhem?  {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Stavros on November 27, 2007, 10:46:35 PM
Hasnt he finished that by now O0

Stavros
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Wetwater on November 27, 2007, 10:56:00 PM
    Don't get Martin started on puffers.  He'll never stop.   ::)   :D   {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 28, 2007, 12:29:33 AM
Started the superstructure last week but not had time to post the updates just yet.
The upper work are a series of nice little well thought out kits....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on November 28, 2007, 08:18:24 AM
It appears Hachette have a new partwork series on there hands in time for as Christmas TV launch

Anyone fancy planking this {-) {-) {-)

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=187471

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: djrobbo on November 28, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
Surely that should be in the steam section :D :D :D
Title: Build the Bismarck
Post by: Charles Nicholas on November 29, 2007, 01:04:17 AM
Can someone tell me why Hachette only send out 4 issues per month?  It does make a sensible idea if they send out 10 issues per month and this will reduce the time building the boat
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on November 29, 2007, 09:03:57 AM
The concept is sold on the basis of it being a weekly series at an affordable amount, ie you get 1 mag per week via the newsagent or if you subscribe like you say its 4 mags every 4 weeks.

If you were sent 10 mags every 4 weeks yes the build would be much faster but do you really want a bill of £49.90 every 4 weeks?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on November 29, 2007, 08:23:38 PM
You could built it quicker still if they sent out everything in one box - I can't understand why no-one has thought of that before...

Seriously though, my Dad's building it and the rate the packs come out means he can keep on top of the model easily so the model makes steady progress which he is really enjoying. He has a Clyde Puffer on the shelf which has been there for years. Getting all the bits in one go threw him 'cos there are such a lot of them. The model will get built one day but it's much harder to work out where everything goes. The Bismark has really explicit instructions so even for someone who has built as many models as he has it's a much more user friendly way to get a battleship.

Phil
http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/ (http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 07, 2007, 10:29:12 PM


My Build updated - Here. (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.0)           

Cheers,
Marin

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 07, 2007, 10:46:57 PM
Looks good but, HOW DO YOU WORK SO NEAT ! >>:-(  was the mouse any help ? when do the motors go in .

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on December 07, 2007, 10:49:00 PM
G'day Martin,
Just a query here, if the deck has a gentle curve, being higher fore and aft, will there be a problem if the superstructure has been put together on what looks like a flat table?
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on December 10, 2007, 08:17:28 AM
Yes, very likely as the super wont then sit flat on the deck which is why the instructions tell you to set the super out on the deck whilst constructing its base ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 10, 2007, 09:07:29 AM

So far mine is turning out to be a fairly flat deck, i.e.. it sits on the hull and worktop without any notable gaps or bow. The deck may well take on a bow when finally fixed / glued down but that can easily be induced by fixing sandpaper to the deck and "correcting" the superstructure accordingly!

As I'm building up a kit of parts to be amalgamated at the last possible instance, I'll not be fitting the decks, motors, rudders or super structure until I have to and then each part can be 'adjusted' for the best possible fit.


Martin  :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 10, 2007, 06:40:45 PM

Look how easy it is to build!   -    http://youtube.com/watch?v=PX5H0rhqYw0


Here's a model at the same stage of construction as mine!    -   http://youtube.com/watch?v=vQ9Z6nDI_hk&feature=related

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: slewis on December 10, 2007, 11:15:30 PM
Quote
I am far happier with the building, problem solving of a model than sailing them. In fact after a couple of times sailing and checking that the model does what I intended it to do I loose interest in it and either sell it or burn it and start again on a new project!!

I am the same . My other love is Rc planes and for the last 3 years I have been solving various issues with building a large scale Fairey Gannet . It involves a 3 part folding wing and contra rotating props , not mentioning the Fairey flap system which is a work of art in itself !
I fully intend that this model (106" wingspan) will actually work as per the original and fly . But I dont have the qualifications to fly it myself . I know people who will fly it for me and I will be happy if it does just the one flight , the fun part for me has been the design work and the knowledge that I actually designed and built all of the systems needed for it to work properly  O0
I expect that it will take me another 2 years to actually build the thing now that I have finalised all the parts (I have built 5 wings so far) and am getting the final bits laser cut when I get finished redrawing the plans .

Moral is   take your time  get it right and sod the expense   its a FUN hobby after all and there is NO time limit on anything you do for fun  O0 ;) :) :) :) :)

Shane
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 12, 2007, 03:28:58 PM

Damn!  {-)   -   Bismarck on Ebay for £32 quid   (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/radio-control-model-boat-battleship-bismark-all-in-box_W0QQitemZ200183639729QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2564QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on December 12, 2007, 04:34:30 PM
Yes Martin I saw it too but did not like to mention it. Anyway it is not half as good as yours is going to be and look at the fun you had. Cheers Graham.  O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 18, 2007, 07:01:55 PM

Another one, a bigger one on ebay America...

 1:150 scale Battle ship Bismark RC over 5.5 feet RTR  (http://cgi.ebay.com/1-150-scale-Battle-ship-Bismark-RC-over-5-5-feet-RTR_W0QQitemZ300183283941QQihZ020QQcategoryZ2564QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on December 18, 2007, 10:24:07 PM
Looks like that Jamara rubbish...  >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on December 19, 2007, 12:03:50 AM
looking good martin, I'm tagging along with issues 31-35. have a good christmas :angel:
robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 19, 2007, 12:18:06 AM
Looks like that Jamara rubbish...  >:(

"Never mind the quality, feel the width!" ... as we say over here! ;D

What's the German expression for 'something is rubbish but look how much rubbish you get for your money?'

PS. Just received parts 37-40... more Bxxxxxxx planking than you can shake a stick at!

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: gerrybuilt on December 19, 2007, 07:38:21 PM
Hi All,
I have just received issue#43 a day earlier than usual.
Now, please tell me that I have either sanded the hull planks too much, or the bow stem resin part #207 is wider than it aught to be, because there is at least 1mm sticking out wider than the wooden hull. I suppose that I will have to bodge it with filler and sand it all down later. Or have Hachette made the part 207 too big? :-\

Gerry
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on December 20, 2007, 08:06:01 AM
No your right, the Bow resin part is oversized by approx 2mm, you will need to carefully sand it to meet the level of the 2nd planking ;)

So far the resin parts for this kit have been rubbish >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Roger in France on December 28, 2007, 08:14:11 AM
Last night, on French TV, I saw the first advert. for Hachette releasing Issue 1 of "Build the Bismark" here in France.

I shall not be tempted!

Roger in France.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 28, 2007, 08:27:32 AM
Is the Flying Scotsman being advertised on UK tv at present one of theres, again its 150 issues @ £4 95 and the Motor and rail is extra , does look nice though . I think its brass but it would then need painting. :P :(

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on December 28, 2007, 06:20:29 PM
The Flying Scotsman looks like a pretty good buy actually. I did the maths and you are only paying 34 quid more than buying the model outright. It's an interesting offer.

More maths and link in my blog: http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2007/12/build-flying-scotsman.html (http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2007/12/build-flying-scotsman.html)

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 28, 2007, 06:39:43 PM
so you can buy it as a kit .? any links

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on December 28, 2007, 07:06:22 PM
Yes, in the blog - Tower Models. Look under DJH O gauge kits. http://www.tower-models.com/ (http://www.tower-models.com/) I don't think they do 2 different A3 kits.

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 28, 2007, 07:25:56 PM
Thanks for that.

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: djrobbo on December 28, 2007, 09:47:13 PM
Hi guys .....been doing model railways for donkeys years.......wonder how many people have seen the add and think they can make the loco look like it does on the telly.      Most will not realise it is etched brass . and needs soldering . and that any white metal parts will need low melt solder etc.......i can see a lot of unfinished locos and unhappy people.. :'( :'(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cos918 on December 28, 2007, 09:57:33 PM
have to agree with djrobbo brass loco kit are not the easiest especially for beginners. Me thinks there will be a fair few on ebay in the not to distant future.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: elmo on December 29, 2007, 07:00:55 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/jan/12/mondaymediasection.books
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cos918 on December 29, 2007, 10:54:40 AM
hi , elmo that was very intresting reading.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: elmo on December 29, 2007, 11:38:52 AM
hi , elmo that was very intresting reading.

Thanks, yeh, good stuff eh?

I do try very hard not to let myself get suckered into these things (you should see my collection of Napoleonic cavalrymen though!  O0 ) which, lets be honest, look absolutely fantastic at first, especially when you see the ad on the TV (as we are meant to be taken in - exactly as per that article suggests) for that finished A1 loco, all shiny, authentically painted and lined out (which is an art in itself - or an expensive sub-contract out-source even IF you manage to put the kit together!)

I think I've also read somewhere too, that perhaps they should offer a pre-partwork tutorial on soldering brass sheet and low-melt solder requirements for white metal parts etc., etc., etc., as something like the A1 Flying Scotsman model would surely have a very wide appeal across all age ranges, but only a few would probably have the knowledge or the skill or the equipment necessary to make a start.  :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on December 29, 2007, 12:52:07 PM
An etched loco kit doesn't have to be difficult to build. It's perfectly possible to design a model that can be assembled with screws, bolts and superglue. It's just that in the UK, loco kits are built down to a price and so are harder to put together.

DJH's main business is high-end kits for Europe & the USA. These markets will pay for ease of assembly, especially in the States.

They do make a couple of beginners kits in 4mm scale where the only soldering required is for the pickups. The Flying Scotsman needs the same apparently. With sufficient sales quaranteed, I bet Hachette have got a good deal from DJH and so this will be one of the top-end kits.

And you don't need to solder whitemetal. If the bits are any good, a quality superglue will work fine. My loco's have survived years on the exhibition circuit with glued on chimneys and domes.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 01, 2008, 08:56:57 PM
Ebay - unfinished bismarck battleship which i subscribed to hachette partworks   

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/build-the-bismarck-battleship-kit_W0QQitemZ200187243549QQihZ010QQcategoryZ1189QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on January 01, 2008, 10:24:23 PM
Hi Martin,
A Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to all forum members AND
When can we next expect an update on your Bismarck O0

Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on January 02, 2008, 01:26:19 AM
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s78/jinks8/Untitled-1Small.jpg)It floats
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on January 02, 2008, 01:39:01 AM
Ebay - unfinished bismarck battleship which i subscribed to hachette partworks   

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/build-the-bismarck-battleship-kit_W0QQitemZ200187243549QQihZ010QQcategoryZ1189QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Martin I thought yours was further on ?  ;)  why are you selling  :-\  :D  ;)  ;)

Peter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 02, 2008, 08:45:40 AM
Martin

Sad to see its up for sale, how come your moving it on, thought you got it as a freeby?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 02, 2008, 02:06:14 PM
NO, no, no! It one on ebay is NOT mine!
I'm just monitoring other who have given up on their builds and posting links here.  :-\
There have been quite a few appearing on the German ebay site.

Here's Mine: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg74218#msg74218
My next stage is the 2nd stage planking..... I'm just trying to summon up enough courage and will power to start it!  :(



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 02, 2008, 04:59:41 PM
Thought as much as the last photo in your forum build is way ahead of the one on ebay, its just how your post reads :D

2nd planking is a doddle and much easier to apply ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 10, 2008, 09:20:16 AM
Martin

Have you come across this?

http://modelwarshipsuk.informe.com/forum/build-the-bismarck-dt350.html
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on January 10, 2008, 10:22:59 AM
Ebay - unfinished bismarck battleship which i subscribed to hachette partworks   

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/build-the-bismarck-battleship-kit_W0QQitemZ200187243549QQihZ010QQcategoryZ1189QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

It went for £53.00 plus £20.00 p&p
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 10, 2008, 11:46:41 AM
Sellers wont be getting rich then {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 10, 2008, 01:17:54 PM
Martin - Have you come across this?
http://modelwarshipsuk.informe.com/forum/build-the-bismarck-dt350.html

Daryl hates the build and has posted many negative comments on various sites and forums, which has seen him banned from a couple of them... including this one!  >:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: PaulHBell on January 12, 2008, 12:58:24 PM
I have only just found this forum and I must say I like it.

As for the Bismarck build I am up to issue 46 and yes I've had problems. But not big problems, they have all come out ok in the end.

I have just read the link above about Daryl's build. I know that Hachette/amati have had problems with the build, but they have replaced any parts that are wrong. And they are prepaired to replace that printed decks with planks (just get in contact with hachette, number in front of the magazine.)

As for a starter model, This is where hachette made there only massive mistake (my opinion).  It was obvious from issue 1, that it is not for anyone who has not built this type of model before.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 12, 2008, 01:34:01 PM
As for a starter model, This is where hachette made there only massive mistake (my opinion).  It was obvious from issue 1, that it is not for anyone who has not built this type of model before.

Agreed!
Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 12, 2008, 02:05:57 PM
Sorry Paul I dont and do agree if that makes sense :D

For a kit that was advertised as being suitable for the novice its likely to have put many off model ship building for good cos of the problems and its unsuitability for the novice.

Ok the problems can be overcome but is that really the objective of building this model?

Yes they are happy to replace any parts that are faulty which is what you would expect anyway, however a good example to use is the resin stern part 70, it arrives having the anchor pocket inaccurate so they say they will supply a redesigned part which they do, part 70A, thit time its is accurate re the anchor pocket but its also inaccurate cos the part is now bigger than it was in the first instance making it oversized :D

I wonder just how many will take up the offer of the deck planks as gluing 1000's of 1mm wide planks would be enough to drive anyone loopy, maybe they did this cos they knew not many would take up the offer which is why they likely supplied printed deck sheets which in my view actually looks better than any attempts to replicate this I have seen so far both in accuracy and appearance ::)

Dont get me wrong am happy in what I have managed to achieve to date but my build has certainly deviated from the instructions cos to put things right you have to deviate from the instructions, I should imagine there are a lot of frustrated novices out there >>:-(

One thing for sure is that I would not buy another partwork ship model again or an Amati kit for that matter if this model is an example of there kit standard.

I think many will end up with a half decent model be it static or RC, but there will also be many who wish they had not been tempted by there note of "easy to build".

Just glad the 2nd planking is over and done with as was loosing the will to live twice over :D



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: PaulHBell on January 12, 2008, 02:21:09 PM
I agree with what you have said about the kit being suitable for the novice, it is NOT. But my experience with model boats (and I have built a few) is that, kits like this i.e. scratch builds, always have problems. And as for the instructions included with the Bismarck, we should be lucky we have them, as boat kits that I have bought in the past have only ever had plans, no instructions.

My point was about 'daryl', he was always complaining about the problems with the build, but he never stated that Hachette was always happy to help and replace 'wrong' items. Why is he still building the model if he was unhappy from the start.

I will be using the printed decks, not planks. I have had enough with planking on this model, it's been driving me nuts. And I have had no fit problems with my resin parts. They have all been ok size wise.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 12, 2008, 02:50:34 PM
That's the point its not supposed to be a scratch build model yet like you say it very much resembles one to which Daryl has voiced his frustrations over.

I suppose we are all entitled to our own opinion and think he's still building cos he's passed the point of no return, lets face it anyone who ditches the build has made an instant loss so it might be best to persevere in the hope that it gets better and if not its a lesson learned.

A very interesting build all the same ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: PaulHBell on January 12, 2008, 02:58:29 PM
I agree, over £200 spent so far, with out radio gear money, it would be crazy to stop now. He has complained from issue 1 in other forums, so why did he carry on spending money on the mag, then complaine every week.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on January 12, 2008, 03:09:10 PM
That I cant answer, but like I said maybe he continued in hope that it would get better and is now at the point of no return like all of us, maybe you should ask him that question yourself on the modelwarshipuk forum noted a few posts back.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Stavros on January 17, 2008, 06:01:47 PM
Has Martin given up ? Has his little man who inspires him gone on Holiday?Has he been given the sack,Has it been given a hatchet job for firewood,who knows,but there has been no postings on his build since Dec.

Stavros
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 17, 2008, 06:10:27 PM
Winter blues....... and not looking forward to the 2nd layer planking  :(   
       Normal service will resume as soon as possible.  O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on January 18, 2008, 09:37:44 AM
I should get on with the 2nd planking asap Martin..... it takes a bloomin age to do  :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 18, 2008, 10:05:17 AM
I should get on with the 2nd planking asap Martin..... it takes a bloomin age to do  :-\

.... Ah, just what I need, a good bit of positive encouragement.  :-\
How is the Bismarck build going on the other sites?

Martin  ;)

PS. Of to Ally Pally Engineering show tomorrow.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on January 18, 2008, 11:16:45 AM
More photos we wont be seeing then.  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on January 18, 2008, 01:41:22 PM
how come you are allowed to take time off the project to trudge all the way to Ally Pally?
Slacker.
see you there, though god knows why i am going again this year.
Have fun
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on January 19, 2008, 01:20:30 AM
I should get on with the 2nd planking asap Martin..... it takes a bloomin age to do  :-\

.... Ah, just what I need, a good bit of positive encouragement.  :-\
How is the Bismarck build going on the other sites?

Martin  ;)

PS. Of to Ally Pally Engineering show tomorrow.


It's takin bloomin ages ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 19, 2008, 07:35:49 PM
Quote
though god knows why i am going again this year.

I went to the Boat Show instead!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on January 21, 2008, 03:39:55 AM
Just dragging the group back to the Bismarck for awhile, down in Oz we're many issues behind. On one of the many webpages about the Hatchett Bismarck (and of course I can't remember which one) I saw that the first of the planks for the bow, rather than a smooth length from end to end they where recomending that it "should" be stepped out slighltly between two of the forrard frames.

I imagined it along the lines of ---------------------\_____ if looking at the starboard plank from the top (to a rough degree).

Has anyone else seen the page/done the mod?

Would this be to 'bell' or flair the planks to fit the resin part (hawse pipes etc)?

Just curious
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on January 21, 2008, 07:25:07 AM
All sorted, it was the upper hull planking as laid out in
http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/modelframe.htm - issue 22

Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on January 22, 2008, 02:10:19 AM
It went for £53.00 plus £20.00 p&p
[/quote] yes i got it can see y the gentleman got rid it is all in a box now all other bit's on order will build the Bismark's sister  later on just wanted the mag's as a lot of mine got ruined.  when grand sun split coffee on then and did not say a thing
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Pointy on January 25, 2008, 10:42:57 PM
Looking at all that wood scares me let alone trying build a bismark out of it all. Way to go Martin, reckon your doing a fab job of it! O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Stavros on January 25, 2008, 11:12:24 PM
What has happened to your little helper he looks different have you sacked the original has he jumped ship or do I need to clean my glasses

Stavros
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 25, 2008, 11:21:15 PM
My build updated ->  Martin's Build   (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg81547#msg81547)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: MikeK on January 26, 2008, 09:25:03 AM
Not being a warship man, I have watched intermittently your build progress. May I congratulate you Martin on such good, clear, photos of the build - That little bloke is a great touch. I presume that somewhere out of shot there is a 'normal' workbench full of junk etc., as that pictured is just toooo tidy !
Best of luck with the rest of the build

Mike
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on January 30, 2008, 11:00:21 PM
A technical query on the model,
I've sanded the notches in the frame up to 6mm to match the tubes for the drives for the screws:

Looking down onto the model the Port and starboard path show a slight divergence, they're not parallel with the centre of the keel.

Looking from the side they're not parallel with the keel either, dropping slightly.

We're only talking mm's, slight but noticable, is everyone elses the same? Is this something to do with r/c boats?

Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on January 30, 2008, 11:09:21 PM
Yup, there are angled down, probably A to get bigger props on, and B because it's difficult to get the motor/gearbox any lower.  Hadn't spotted the divergance, so I'm going to check that on mine.  Have a look at the Details page on my website to see what I'm doing about it.  www.buildthebismarck.co.uk

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on February 02, 2008, 07:53:25 AM
The joy of being 20-odd issues behind is that I get to see where you guys have been.
I recieved the resin part for the middle screw, straight on to it with a square and mine seems to be true and even. Perhaps they've ironed out all the problems by now?
I looked at the planking on my bow and even though the lines flowed from the stern, midships and fore-end, it suddenly popped up to the bow giving an almost chevron-like look at the join. I've 'de-planked' one side to replank it continuing the top row of planks giving it a smoother look, imagining that I had one plank long enough to go from stem to stern. [pikkies to follow if I can work out how to upload or reference tham]
Just trying to stay in the loop
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on February 24, 2008, 03:49:18 PM
All quiet on the western front ???

Martin, no update for a while, how's the build going or have you ditched it?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on February 24, 2008, 06:06:06 PM
Been busy updating Mayhem, over a 1,000 new photos from various shows.
Hope to get going on the planking this week....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on March 03, 2008, 10:26:08 AM
Anyone know what happent to the the other forum
http://www.buildthebismarck.com/
Seems to be down
Anyway here is my progress at week 28
(http://thumb15.webshots.net/t/62/562/8/75/90/2804875900055899055CLACWj_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2804875900055899055CLACWj)
Jim
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on March 04, 2008, 12:18:01 AM
was on the other last night and gain this morning was ok then
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 04, 2008, 09:45:02 AM

Not working as of 9:45 Tuesday 4 March.  :-\

Updated Build the Bismarck Links:

British Site: http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/index.html
British Site(?): http://www.buildthebismarck.com/

German Modeller: http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_aktuell.htm
German Modeller: http://bismarck.oehm.net/index.php?ta=conhtml&obj=index&st0=z&stnr=0&sp=2&titel=Startseite
German modeler: http://trakan.tr.funpic.de/ - http://trakan.tr.funpic.de/Bismarck/BSindex.html
German Modeller: http://www.projekt-bismarck.de/index2.php
German Modeler: http://www.baue-die-bismarck.de/viewpage.php?page_id=1
German Modeler: http://www.9teuflottille.de/index2.html
German Modeler: http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=4062

Hachett UK - - - - -  http://www.hachettepartworks.co.uk/product.php?proID=1172137511
Hachett  Germany - http://www.die-bismarck-bauen.de/

General Bismarck information: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/
   "            "            "        : http://www.kbismarck.com/



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on March 04, 2008, 10:09:36 AM
I seem to have lost this site as well
http://forum.drydockmodels.com/
It is an Australia Uk thingy
Jim
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on March 04, 2008, 12:09:17 PM
I have now completed both hulls and sanded them for the next layer of planking, the original hull upto and including the deck wieghs 2lb 14ozs, and the one I am copying form the original bits wieghs in at 12 ozs, there is as you can see a large weight difference, I only hope that the superstructure weight can be kepted down on my own version as much as the hull has been, everything has so far fitted together perfectly.................


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 06, 2008, 11:16:19 AM
was on the other last night and gain this morning was ok then

It appears the domain for www.buildthebismarck.com has expired, maybe the guy gave up the ghost as it was a dire site from the outset with lots of promises about everything but little about getting on with the build :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on March 06, 2008, 12:32:46 PM
Just finishing 2nd layer of planking, issue 40 and am doing side extensions for removable deck area after to allow for better water protection and ease of fitting deck on and off.
Happy planking!
Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on March 06, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
I seem to have lost this site as well
http://forum.drydockmodels.com/
It is an Australia Uk thingy
Jim

Its still there Jock  http://forum.drydockmodels.com/    O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jinks8 on March 12, 2008, 12:21:59 AM
got wrong site thought you wear on about btb . co/uk sorry neveer bean on other site
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Bismartin on March 16, 2008, 06:41:50 PM
Hi folks,

I just found this forum and as I'm a 'hatchette' Bismark builder thought I'd register and post :)

I've just spent hours reading this forum, thanks (fellow) Martin for the great informative pictures, its nice to see other peoples work too.

I'm up to issue 50, I guess like most UK subscribers. I'm in the process of fitting those strange front and rear port hole ply strips and sanding down the hull to suit.

A good tip in making the hull wonderfully smooth, once you've filled any gaps with filler (I used curpinol in a tube filler as its water based), after sanding smooth, mix some filler with a little water to reduce it and paint it over any imperfections with a brush. Sand and paint again. You get a great result. I'll post some pictures of mine soon.

All the best.

Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 16, 2008, 09:52:39 PM
Thanks for that Martin, sounds like a good idea to be!

I'm a little behind with my build as I'm fishing off another commission.... long story, but hope to get back on track soon.

The OTHER Martin  ;)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on April 02, 2008, 01:04:34 AM
For anyone in Australia that thought Issue 26 was short a part, Bissett advises that the publisher has admited this and the the delivery part 100 is "tba"  :o
Just FYI
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on April 02, 2008, 04:13:41 AM
What part was missing? I didn't miss anything, I hope :embarrassed:
Jock
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on April 02, 2008, 06:10:44 AM
I was short part 100, the rear deckhead of the first chunk off superstructure that we recieved. It was meant to be in issue 26. Bissett were aware of it but perhaps it could have been in some but not in others?
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on April 02, 2008, 11:05:34 AM
Part 100 was in mine.
Finished part 32 tonight, this superstructure is never ending
Jock
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on April 02, 2008, 03:16:44 PM
it does end in 100 odd weeks... {-), don't woory after the planking it's0 all brass bits for awhile.
working on 42 myself, going slow though as finishing other build, hopefully!

robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on April 09, 2008, 04:47:25 AM
Martin (as in 'Martin Builds the Bismarck' seems to be leaving a while between parts! At this rate we here in Oz will be passing him, who do we look to then for those pithy words of wisdom and those 'things to watch out for'?
Cheers
Oz  8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on April 09, 2008, 11:56:35 AM
tjilpi,

I agree with you mate, come on Martin grt the finger out we want to see what not to do next..................


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on April 09, 2008, 11:45:17 PM
I have a spare issue 32 if anyone needs one before I send it back to Hachette.

Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 16, 2008, 01:35:41 PM

I think hey had Arado's on Bismarck..... well maybe not this particular one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qWik6OIz2w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qWik6OIz2w&feature=related)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: andi4x4 on April 19, 2008, 10:00:55 PM
Oooops ! 

Too much drag from the floats maybe ? or just weak airframe around the motor ?

Second on still looks like it could do with bigger floats, mind.

Regards

Andi
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: ir3 on April 24, 2008, 08:43:19 PM
A most impressive thread. I missed out on the Titanic build and it looks like I may miss out on this one also. I am located in the USA and it appears that I will probably not be able to get a subscription. If there is anyone that has a subscription but is not going to do the build, I would be interested. Also, if it is still possible to get a subscription in England, I would be happy to underwrite the subscription and arrange for bulk shipments as the copies are accumulated. Any help/information would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Iran Ausley
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on April 25, 2008, 05:56:45 PM
The cost to send the kit to the USA even in batches might put it out of question, partwork magazines diont seem to exist in the USA though not sure why.

Best place might be to keep looking on eBay under various searches of Hachette & Bismarck and you might just be lucky to get hold of many of the magazines/parts for the series, though its not complete in the UK for another 79 weeks :D

Anyone seen this U Tube cliip, best  {-) I have had in ages!

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHD2UdeHMI
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 25, 2008, 06:19:51 PM
Anyone seen this U Tube clip, best  {-) I have had in ages!
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHD2UdeHMI (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHD2UdeHMI)

Great video, a ski boat Bismarck!.... if only the real one had been that fast!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on April 26, 2008, 01:10:03 PM
There are some speed boats that are not that fast.......... {-) {-)


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: nhp651 on April 26, 2008, 04:52:57 PM
I was just waiting for it to turn turtle under full starboard, shucks, was I disappointed? :'(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Edward Pinniger on April 26, 2008, 05:54:35 PM
Anyone seen this U Tube cliip, best  {-) I have had in ages!

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=-zHD2UdeHMI

I think this is the RTR 1/350 Bismarck from the same Chinese manufacturer as the "Smasher" destroyer (which is actually a Russian Sovremenny-class). Looks like they used the exact same motor and prop system  {-) - the "speedboat" effect looks silly enough on a 1/200 destroyer, but a 1/350 battleship is another matter entirely! I wonder what the scale speed is?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: sonyah on April 29, 2008, 09:38:40 AM
Part 100 was in mine.
Finished part 32 tonight, this superstructure is never ending
Jock
do you now any one that got part 28 just cant find it any were please help
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 29, 2008, 10:56:11 AM
Issue 28 or Part No. 28?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 02, 2008, 04:48:27 AM
G'day fellow builders, this is my first post on this site, so, first up, I was missing part 100 in issue 26. I just received a note along with parts 32-35 that I will receive this part along with the next 4, end of MAY.
I'd also like to ask you guys about the stern anchor moulding in 23, this is being replaced by a more 'scale part' in issue 35.( this is mentioned in MARKS UK' Build it site')  I didn't receive that part, according to my supplier 'Bissett Magazines' this part was only issued to the Brits, does this mean the Australian part is in fact correct?
Lastly, I'd just like to say that I've just completed up to the first hull planking and the decks, progress has been slow, now I have to find a way of heating my garage or it'll be 'dead stop' for the winter...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on May 02, 2008, 09:13:39 AM
I got the revise part here in Bendigo Vic and part 100 was OK as well. I got mine via a news agency not subscription.
Jim
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 02, 2008, 03:00:33 PM
I have received all parts with nothing missing and all has gone together very well,
I am about half way through the second planking, which I thought was going to
be hard to do and tedious, but have found it very simple and quick to do, so far
I have both sides covered and the bilge keels installed, just have to nip across the
bottom of the hull, the two sides were completed in two nights or about 4 hours...........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 05, 2008, 06:20:35 AM
G'day to all the builders out there, and thank you for the 'Velcome', much appreciated!
As is my usual 'to do' here at work on a daily basis is to check my mail and get onto the' BISMARCK" sites to see what's going on, "Hmm,wonder if I've had a reply to my question?"
Always first on the list is 'Marks UK build it site' and there was the answer to my question re the 'Stern Moulding', and  'illustrations' as well!!. So, by compairing the first part in issue 23 with the 'replacement' in 35, it's easy to see that us here in OZ got the correct part, suppose that's one benefit of being out here in the 'Colonies', always last to know!!," mind you", when doing the 'TITANIC' I think very few of us new that the bow shape was wrong until it was too late and the thing was complete!! I was fortunate there in being able to purchase issues 1-60 for an unbelievable price off EBAY....40 dollars!!. That let me 'scrap' my half complete one , make 'new' frames for the bow, and while I was at it, get all the brass from 'FRED'S' in France to 'do away with' those awfull unrealistic' card parts, anyway that's another FORUM, another story!!.......Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 06, 2008, 05:10:30 AM
G'day, I decided to start on the second lot of planking (35) and for the first time have cause to complain.(I think!!) The strakes supplied are absolutely terrible, rubbish,total rubbish, they are thinner, narrower, and as rough as old guts!, by the time I sandpaper these down smooth for priming and painting ,I'll be back to the first layer!!! With a bit of hindsight here, perhaps I should have waited for the 2nd lot, used them for the 'first layer' of planking, and finished off with the first lot second?!!(cough!) At least they weren't too bad and gave a pretty good finish when sanded, I just can't imagine having to cover them up with such crap, but what can I do, use piles of filler perhaps???

Anybody out there with the same problem or has an opinion of sorts?? What I'd like to do is call up my supplier and 'unsubscribe' to parts 36/9/40/42, but I somehow believe I'll not be able to do that!! I'm sure that, with the further 60 bucks that it's going to cost me for a pile of firewood, I could to go to my local model shop and purchase enough half decent 'planks' to complete the 2nd lot, I might even have change left over for a couple of beers!!.......cheers, Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 06, 2008, 01:43:06 PM
I have finished both layers of planking on this model, and the timber that has been sent to me is perfect,
 sanded easily and smooth with very little effort, maybe there is more than one supplier of the wooden parts..


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on May 06, 2008, 08:09:11 PM
I've completed both layers as well and attached all resin pieces and anticipate no problems with sanding the second layer. At least as long as the weather lasts. And then I'll begin the shiny brass adventure. :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 07, 2008, 02:01:25 AM

Hello Roy,and everybody, mine are really crap, honest! I called up my 'supplier' and got onto 'customer care'. As per usual they were very understanding and a replacement part 35 is on it's way. It seems I was the only one who complained, so perhaps I've just been unlucky?, anyway, we'll soon find out!
As I have 'more' on the way, I tried an experiment, I 'doubled' up on the first row of planking for the 'Armour Belt,' stuck that down and sanded it, it came up fine! That bit worked 'OK' for me as I've done 'the belt' a wee bit different to the instructions, but obviously I can't keep on doing it that way!...Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 07, 2008, 09:36:21 AM

Now that the 2nd layer of planking is going on, what are most people thinking as to how to get the final hull shape, ie. filing and sanding to correct profile?

Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 07, 2008, 01:13:26 PM
Martin,

Really the only profile we can work to is the stand that they sent,
unless you have received something that we have not yet, so from
that now that it is sanded it fits perfectly into the stand, this means
I have built it wrong as there is no room for any padding, or the stand is
crap which it is, but useful to hold the hull still..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on May 07, 2008, 01:24:23 PM
Sanding, filling and then more sanding for me.  I've also got a gooseneck cabinet scraper to do the inside curves ar the bow.

I'm going to keep the use of filler to a minimum.

Then of course, give the hull a light spray of primer and sand it all off.  That will show all the little imperfactions that remain  :-\
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 07, 2008, 02:08:18 PM
Thanks guys, that's what I was planning to do .... nice to know I guessed right!  ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on May 07, 2008, 11:49:53 PM
How's that planking coming on Martin ?  Are you going to treat us to some pictures ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: ziggy on May 08, 2008, 02:53:58 PM
new to this stuff but looks nice job ive got up to issue 59 but only just started building should catch up soon as wont have to wait for all the bits
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: The long Build on May 22, 2008, 08:56:01 PM
Hi Martin ,   Not seen any updates since January hows the build going ?.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 22, 2008, 11:36:44 PM
Very busy at work and Wicksteed is this weekend so I'm hoping to have a I'll have a lot more time afterwards!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: The long Build on May 22, 2008, 11:40:23 PM
Yes wicksteed , all the best for that , pity I Can't go , sounds like fun.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: ziggy on May 23, 2008, 12:53:57 AM
been at it 2 weeks now easy enough got first layer of planking on doesn't look to bad i find if u taper the edges of planks they fit together better needing less sanding especially at the front of the boat witch can be a pain also i split some of the planks in half to get the right shape
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on May 23, 2008, 12:14:16 PM
How's the build coming along Martin?

Apologies did'nt notice the previous post :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: ziggy on May 25, 2008, 01:49:20 AM
comin on ok second layer of planks esyiuer than first quite a nice job lookin good :angel:
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on May 25, 2008, 11:57:36 AM
Finished up to issue 56 and still smoothing out the hull for painting prep. Hope all is dry at Wicksteed O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on May 25, 2008, 01:36:24 PM
I've had a couple of customers rumbling about suitable electrickery for this thing, but I know nothing about it (other than it's 49" long and takes years to build). Can anyone please tell me exactly what version of Graupner Speed motors are included; are there just two, and what batteries folks are planning on installing?
I might as well have the b*ll5H1T prepared in advance!
FLJ

BTW I've just realised this weekend that www stands for "Wet and Windy Wicksteed".
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 25, 2008, 04:20:28 PM

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/bismarckoffer.pdf (http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/bismarckoffer.pdf)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on May 25, 2008, 05:59:23 PM

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/bismarckoffer.pdf (http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/bismarckoffer.pdf)
Thanks, MD, but all I can glean from that fuzzy PDF is that the motors are "Graupner Spe". They make quite a few of these and they are bewilderingly and annoyingly all slightly different. Can you be a sweetie-pie and add the missing number and Voltage, please?
(I suppose the motors must have been left over from the Graf Spe, eh?  ::))
FLJ   
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 25, 2008, 09:46:46 PM
Mine are Graupner Speed 400 but not from Hachett.
How's your German? - http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_einbau.htm
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on May 26, 2008, 09:39:55 AM

How's your German?

Oh, he's fine, thanks, but my Nepalese is looking a bit peaky.............  :D
Big Rob McH has filled in the missing gaps for me, so thanks to both. I now have a good idea of what's involved.
FLJ
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 18, 2008, 01:48:57 PM
Anybody else want to start to build the Bismarck?

Build the Bismark Issues (1) to (50) - Ebay Item number: 150256779248
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Build-the-Bismark_W0QQitemZ150256779248QQihZ005QQcategoryZ1189QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on June 18, 2008, 03:23:53 PM
I'd be seeing double as I'd have two :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on June 19, 2008, 11:11:31 AM
Seems dead on here of late, has this project it been deserted in droves?

Think this series has just taken a downturn for the worst, just been told via a guy in Germany that issue 87 contains a large fret of laser-cut carcase parts cut from 3mm MDF, if that's not cost stripping then what is, and it's heavier than the 3mm ply they've been supplying!

Anyone else seen an RC model boat kit containing MDF?

For the unaware you want to checkout the handling of MDF as it's nasty/hazardous stuff to work with, what a daft idea and Amati have lost the plot :D

It can't be good news for the RC version as it's already looking like it's going to be top heavy with the mass supply of photo-etched brass cladding & parts.

Martin - How's your build coming on, give up on it yet?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 19, 2008, 11:17:02 AM
Nope.....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on June 19, 2008, 11:46:38 AM
Lets see some new pictures Martin. O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: modelman66 on June 21, 2008, 02:28:04 PM
yes please show  O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on June 22, 2008, 03:23:59 AM
Yeah, come on Martin, we're dying to see how you're doing :)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 05, 2008, 11:21:40 AM
If I remember correctly you're going to need the larger of the two stern resin pieces. The smaller one and the filler wood piece leave the anchor recess in the wrong spot. Have you started sanding yet, best thing is a sunny day, yeah right, and two wheelie bins and a board, saves your back a world of grief.
After that, its time to brass work for ever seems like. Im on issue 58 now and still loads of brass etching, but the laser etched decking looks superb, don't forget to order it or they'll send you the no so good decking.
Have fun. O0 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 05, 2008, 11:17:30 PM
Hi Rem,

Have you finished your hull?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 06, 2008, 09:33:52 AM
Let's try again, couldn't remember how to resize, doh. Yeah, I've pretty much finished the hull, all resin bits attached, doing a bit of filling and sanding. Just portholes and rc gear to install which I have yet to order.
Now need a few sunny days {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 06, 2008, 02:21:10 PM
Looks good to me!    O0

What sealing, filling, paint materials did you use?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 06, 2008, 07:48:26 PM
For sealing I used Glatfix, you can get it from Cornwall Model Boats, filler is just Ronseal white wood filler, easy to sand with 320 and 800 grit wet and dry, so far the paint was the cheapie primer stuff about 3rd cn of that now as it spray and sand....spray and sand...
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 06, 2008, 11:39:22 PM
Can you tell me a bit more about the Glatfix stuff, what it's like?
Web site info?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 06, 2008, 11:53:39 PM
Nice to see some progress Martin - are you enjoying the planking ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Cargo on July 07, 2008, 10:48:21 AM
Can you tell me a bit more about the Glatfix stuff, what it's like?
Web site info?

It is the same stuff from Graupner. It seals the wood from "within".

http://i7.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/b8/f4/c01b_1.JPG
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 07, 2008, 01:24:45 PM

Nice to see some progress Martin - are you enjoying the planking ;)

Actually yes!

I've been procrastinating for all sorts of reasons but it went on very easily and quickly.
.... All was fine until after the weekend, when I realised that the 2nd layer planking should be staggered,
like brickwork..... Ah!  :-\          Well no real harm done.... I hope!


Back to this Glaffix stuff, I can find very little about it anywhere. It seems that it's very much like good
old 'sanding sealer'..... but 3 times the price! can anyone confirm that?

The very knowledgable Marcus says on another forum:


"Another quick question for Markus if he's about today when doing the coats of Glatfix, still have some
from first layer of planking, when to you apply it? ie. once all smooth, prior to any filler or in between?"

Marcus:
Glattfix is applied after second planking is coarsely sanded:
Glattfix, fine sanding, glattfix, fine sanding... it took me 4 coats for a really smooth hull - no filler needed at all
if you still have any gaps after 3 or 4 coats of glattfix then it's time for some filler...
Markus.

http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=938&page=10 (http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=938&page=10)


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: SteamboatPhil on July 08, 2008, 07:58:14 PM
Its coming on really well, however "I tink the little fella seems to be doing all the work"
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Walter Cooper on July 09, 2008, 09:37:24 PM
Hello Martin,I think that your doing a wonderful job on her O0 Simply beautiful,Walter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on July 15, 2008, 01:56:52 PM
Martin,

The vent strips you have attached with the repairs are
I am afraid not going to work out, as you have to insert
small little brass sheets into the different shapes and
the repair strips you have used are way to big you will
not get them into the holes, you will have to cut down
your repair strips quite a bit, sorry mate...........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 15, 2008, 02:52:08 PM
Oh! OK, what issue do they come in?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 15, 2008, 04:33:22 PM
I think their the brass bits in issue 48. O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on July 16, 2008, 11:45:59 AM
No sorry they are in issue 47......
they do make those little holes look a lot better........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 16, 2008, 02:25:52 PM


Question, the step in the hull, at the top, the 2 'inset planks'....... I can't see this in any of the original photos?!!



(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT4590.jpg)


(http://www.bismarck-class.dk/technicallayout/smoke_generator/pictures/01_smoke_generator.jpg)

(http://www.bismarck-class.dk/technicallayout/smoke_generator/pictures/07_smoke_generator_exchaust_pipes.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 16, 2008, 07:51:46 PM
Oops sorry, I was close, but that only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades :D

Anyway, added the numbers 1 and 2 in your top photo. these 2 rows of planking represent the recesses area at the top of the armour belt. they are not double planked as the rest of the hull. and if you want a good modification add a third line of planking on top and form your removeable deck to fit. There is a modification thread on this on Mark's page and it does take some doing but will benefit in the water-proofing ability. Some have joined the 2 removeable pieces,I'm still toying wth this idea.
Hope this helps. O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 16, 2008, 08:24:42 PM
Thanks Rem2007, do you mean this?

(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x102/SWANRAIL/BISMARCK/deck2.jpg)

http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=941 (http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=941)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 16, 2008, 11:25:22 PM
That was quick {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 24, 2008, 03:21:45 PM

2nd layer of sticks..... going well !!!!  :P

Just been on fleaBay, can anyone tell me what the difference between SANDING SEALER & SHELLAC WHITE SANDING SEALER is please?


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 24, 2008, 10:50:09 PM
Good question :D, hopefully we have a chemist onboard {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 24, 2008, 10:54:49 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that conventional sanding sealer is cellulose based. Shellac is derived from resin excreted by a certain type of beetle. Having used both, I prefer the latter as it gives a very hard and smooth finish when abraded and takes paint very well. It is particularly good as a finishing coat on gummed paper strip and I have completed most of my models with this combination.

Colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on July 31, 2008, 10:57:01 PM
Use sanding sealer - it smells good and works better. A few coats and you'll have a very waterproof hull. That's what we used on my Dad's Bismark followed by several coats of high-build primer to help smooth things out. The primer will want a coat of gloss airbrushed on to waterproof it properly but that's easy enough then it can go grey.

He's bang up to date at the half way point. The etched bits for the superstructure are very good:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3223/2720154353_43fae10fc3.jpg)

I'm using the same hull treatment on my Fantail Launch. If there are to be any problames I'd rather find out on this than the battleships !
Pics of this at: http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search/label/Fantail%20launch (http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search/label/Fantail%20launch)

Hope this helps !

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 08, 2008, 04:34:03 AM

I was looking about buying one of those etched brass benders "hold n Fold" etc ... but then i saw the price!!
£35 - £95... yeah, Right!

(http://thesmallshop.com/images/bug_close_2.jpg)
http://thesmallshop.com/index.php (http://thesmallshop.com/index.php)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on August 08, 2008, 08:22:39 AM
I own a Hold'n'Fold device but my Dad hasn't needed to borrow it yet. A pair of small square ended pliers (I bought a Stanley set from a pound shop once) will be more use to you. The lines to fold along are half etched and the brass not very hard so the biggest problem is the tiny size of some of the parts ! The fit of them so far has been excellent, far better than many of the etched locomotive kits I build.

Phil
philsworkbench.blogspot.com (http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: colin-stevens on August 08, 2008, 11:01:58 AM
go to youre local hardware store and buy a large, good quality hinge.
keep the edges sharp, result
colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on August 08, 2008, 02:30:11 PM
A metal ruler and pliers work for me, as Phill said the brass parts fold along their lnes and fit together very nicely.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Captain Povey on August 25, 2008, 11:01:25 AM
Hi Martin you are doing a great job, or is it really your little work mate who is in charge. Can he be hired and if so what's the hourly rate?  Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on September 01, 2008, 12:38:39 AM
hey martin
when are you going to post some more pics of your build?
are the little men on strike?
 O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 01, 2008, 11:10:48 AM
He's been on holiday.... without me!  :(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: amdaylight on September 16, 2008, 09:32:26 PM
Martin,

Do you know the people that are producing this kit, when I e-mailed them saying that there were a couple of us interested in starting their kit, they e-mailed back that they only sell in England, not the US.  >:( >>:-( Could you possibly convince them to start selling in the US as I think that they could really expand their business.

By the way you are doing a great job on her (him?  ???) so far.

Andre Anderson
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on September 16, 2008, 11:23:30 PM
hi andre,

actually it started in germany, then the uk, then south africa, austrailia, kiwi land and now france and holland, so if you move to holland you could get it. not quite the same as portland, but still lots of flowers around. {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 24, 2008, 06:02:31 AM
G'day to all, haven't been on line for a wee while, but that doesn't mean I'm out the game, I just lost this one!! I'm still building away, got over the problems with the 'crap planks' that were the 2nd layer. Most were replaced with 2 dollar bags of lollypop sticks!! It's finished now and it has turned out pretty good.
I don't know how you fellow builders out there went with the 'portholes', but I had used the 'ply' parts with the 'pre drilled' holes, and when the 'paper template' came in 54, well, I had a lot of filling to do, like them ALL!!, every hole was wrong and filled in, re marked, re drilled! (I also fitted 'plastic' inserts into every porthole, if anybody is interested, I'll tell you how!)
We are all aware of the 'aft resin anchor pocket' enough has been said about it, so dare I say, even the replacement isn't right!! It all comes to light with the top row of portholes, like I mentioned, I fitted the ply parts, but when the template is placed on the stern, the 'ply holes' are like 3mm lower. So, when you look at the anchor, look at a good photo of the stern and see it's placement in reference to the deck and to the 'new' row of portholes you just might see a bit of a difference,you'd need to be blind not to see it...I was, and I admit it, nobody is perfect!!!
Anyway, I could go on for ages, write heaps, all I'm going to say is, I 'moved' the anchor pocket into it's new position,(without moving it????) and visually, it looks correct!, if anybody is interested or has done it, let me know!
I'm up to part 59, just going through all the various parts and finishing them off. No real problems so far, a few niggly things perhaps that have crept in, mainly AMATI'S fault....Nice to be back....Dave (I'll try to be shorter next post!!)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 24, 2008, 11:29:13 AM
Hi Berth44,

I must admit I'm pushed for time to get some more of my model done (Truth be told the 2ndlayer planking is one of the most disheartening tasks I've undertaken in a model boat for many a year!).

Interesting what you say about the portholes, stern anchor, corrections, corrections to the corrections, amount of words being lent to this project...... how can that be when it comes in 140 parts?!?!?!  - At this stage I must admit, I would like to see a "factory finished" model just to see what it mine "will look like" once it's finished!...

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Ladybug on September 24, 2008, 07:01:04 PM
Hello,

First some greetings from Holland.
After reading all the comments and tips, i've desided to build the Bismarck too.

I'm happy to say, that i've just finished the first two chapters of the 140 (got 3 left for the next days)
But i've already a question: Is it correct, that part 1 is lower then the ones on each site (about 1 mm) ?
I bought a second copy of chapter 2, and the part 1 in that one is the same height .
I'm just asking this, because when i look at all the nice pics of you guys, a see only a flat deck at that place, not a little curve

Greetz Paul
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 24, 2008, 07:15:22 PM
Yes, it's not important, nothing goes on top of that rib.

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/Bismarck-0040.jpg)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/Bismarck-0059.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Ladybug on September 24, 2008, 07:26:30 PM
Thanks Martin, O0

i thought the deck rested on that part, (so i'm wrong)
i shouldn't read that far ahead  ;)

greetz Paul
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 24, 2008, 08:10:01 PM

Despite being laser cut, I've found most hull parts needed a little 'tweaking' to get them to fit properly.  ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 25, 2008, 01:23:02 AM
G'day Martin, I love that word, 'tweaking', definitely sounds better than 'thumping' 'bashing' 'tearing' (as per your hair out!!) I'm sure that there are many out there who have complied!!!)Sorry to hear your view about the hull,( 2nd lot of planking),  'disheartening'  I would probably agree as the planks I received for the job were awful, it's the cost factor as well, I used some, but most of it were' 2 dollar per hundred' lollypop sticks!!. I also chucked the instructions and went about it in an 'unorderly' berth44 fashion which seemed to work!
In the end it will no doubt be a great model, seeing one finished would definitely be a bonus, keep the chin up..Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 25, 2008, 11:35:11 AM
It would appear that Amati's quality control is almost non existant,
from what Martin and Bertha44 have said, I must be one of the lucky ones as so far every peice has fitted together perfectly, also my second planking strips were excellent, don't want to be nasty but I hope you guys keep getting the rubbish and I keep getting the good bits......... O0 O0


Roy

Ps.  Will take a pick of the hull tomorrow and post on here..........
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 26, 2008, 05:11:39 AM
G'day Roy, you are a naughty boy!!, wouldn't wish that on any builder, joke or no joke!! Remember, some of this 'so called crap' is costing us 15 bucks a pop, definately, no joke!!.....Dave

P/s, remember this Roy, if you do get something that aint quite the way it should be, you've just offended the very people who can help you!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 26, 2008, 09:34:34 AM

In defence of Hachette, nearly every bit of wood I've received has been excellent, first class quality.
.... the 2nd layer of planking.... there's just so much of it .... and I've planked the hull once already!  :'(

How do these  guys build these double diagonal planked hulls?  ???
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 26, 2008, 09:48:23 AM
Quote
How do these  guys build these double diagonal planked hulls?

They sort of lean sideways Martin.... :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on September 26, 2008, 12:15:37 PM
I slightly cheated when it came to second planking, and bought 1m long planks. They were a bit of a pain to glue on because of the extra lenght involved, but planking went really fast.

I did note however, that the supplied Hachette planks were excellent quality, I just got impatient waiting for them to arrive and went for the long ones instead and got a headstart!

Over all, I feel that the quality of the kit is tremendous, the brasswork all seems to fit snugly and the few small detail errors will in no way spoil the model. I can't wait to see the finished ship sitting proud.

I wonder if the wife will let me put it on the mantlepiece? ::)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 27, 2008, 01:28:57 AM
G'day guys,OK, before I rabble on, this will be a great model, I have no doubt in my mind that it be anything else, and I do commend 'AMATI' for their planning and craftmanship!!. IT does seem that I'm in a minority regarding the 2nd lot of planking, the other wooden bits?, no complaints, and as far as the brasswork goes, it has been fine, don't know about 'the fit' as yet, I've only did the detailing as per the instructions , no doubt fitting and bending will come soon, that'll test their fit!!
The only brass ' 'bent' so far, is turret Caesar and the 'gun control thingy',that was fine. The brass for 'Caesar on the other hand, it was a tad long, about 1/16th, so I figured it it to be correct, the wooden structure to be out in it's circumference!. 0.25 mm Plasticard was used to fix that!!.
 Only one more  item, re one of the 'cabin sides. (just thought of it) two of the porthole covers that were a part of the detailing , not the 'glue on' ones, were not under the porthole where they should have been, but a 'few mm away!?! , just stuck there,not covering anything, just 'hangin' around for no reason, and there's no explanation!! Anybody else notice that with theirs that can offer an explanation???......or once again, am I the stooge!!!!
These two things on the brass are just nigly things sent to try us, items like that are a modellers delight, but those bloody planks!!...................Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 29, 2008, 08:03:02 AM
This is my attempt at this kit........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on September 29, 2008, 10:19:21 PM
Looking good Roy, I'm taking a bit of a sabbatical at the moment whilst I DIY the hobby room, plus weather has been good and loads of the lad's footy . Is that a Harley in the background?
Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 30, 2008, 12:46:10 AM

G'day Roy, great looking paint job! Can I ask you, how far from deck level to the start of the 'black lline', how wide is it, and when do we get the 'supports' for the two outboard props???..Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 30, 2008, 11:45:15 AM
Rem2007,
Sorry mate not while ever I breath will one of them be in my shed,
It is the wife's bike being repainted Honda CBR 600.........

Berth44,

Never waited for the supports, made my own shafts from
stainless steel outers with 4mm shafts in oilite bearings
you could hit the ends of the tubes with a hammer
and they would not move, may put them on for show
but not really necessary. The paint work is as per plan
and from photos.........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 30, 2008, 11:10:57 PM
G'day Roy, thanks for the info.Well, if you made the support yourself,it doesn't look like we'll be getting it anytime soon. I've been into a German site, viewed everything from 1-111 and there is not a bo peep of it!!...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 01, 2008, 01:18:43 PM
Berth44,

Well I guess we will have to wait and see, I really don't
think mine needs them but if they arrive I will fit them........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 02, 2008, 02:06:40 AM
To Roy.....'Suppose!!'
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 14, 2008, 10:27:28 PM
Well, it's all quiet on the western front, everybody must be waiting on their radio gear!! Personally, this MAY be my last post, who said 'hooray!!??' till January next year, going overseas for a holiday to Scotland.
I've just received parts 60-63, they are quite straight forward, 63 might be a wee bit fidly, so, if you don't hear from me in a couple of weeks, I'll catch you  in the New Year....All the best...Happy building....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 14, 2008, 11:45:52 PM
You can't take months off from your Bismarck build just because you have due reason, you wouldn't catch me doing that!  %)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: The long Build on October 14, 2008, 11:52:45 PM
MONTHS  >>:-( seems like years Martin....I even might get a model compleated . %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 16, 2008, 01:03:42 AM
Sorry Martin, I wont let it happen again!!, if I could get the 'thing ' into my case, then sneak it aboard the Airbus A380,(I'm excited!!) I would, but who's going to send my stuff from Australia to Scotland??? But don't worry 'fer heart', I'll be watching what's going on from over there and saying 'G'day, just to see how far behind I'm falling!!...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Bismartin on October 18, 2008, 01:12:17 AM
As I haven't posted for a good while, I thought I'd show how far I've come with my hull:

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clan.dhd/Bismarck/IMG_3101.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clan.dhd/Bismarck/IMG_3102.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clan.dhd/Bismarck/IMG_3104.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clan.dhd/Bismarck/IMG_3107.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clan.dhd/Bismarck/IMG_3109.jpg)

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clan.dhd/Bismarck/IMG_3110.jpg)


Although the double planking was a pain, I quite enjoyed it ! The hull is very strong. I've filled all the gaps with a soft wood filler, sanded at least a dozen times and sprayed it with a can of under coat I found in the garage to show off any irregularities. Most have been sanded out but I notice from these pics a few still exist. Then again, practice makes perfect !!!

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 18, 2008, 07:10:28 AM
Wow! that's some finish Bismartin!
That French polished table is like glass!!!  :D

Only joking 'cause I'm jealous! ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Bismartin on October 21, 2008, 09:32:36 PM
Don't tell the wife I placed my model on there to photograph it !

The hull still needs a finer sanding down to smooth it off and the port holes need a lot of work. I spent ages smoothing out around the front porthole strips, they were a pain to get anywhere near nice. The stern ones are rubbish at the moment ! Lots more work.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 22, 2008, 12:05:55 AM
G'day 'Bismartin', the portholes are 'orrible things for sure, so you can imagine drilling what seemed like thousands on the 'AMATI TITANIC', anyway, similar problems existed with this model, they cracked, rough edges etc, but 'brass eyelets' were supplied to finish these off. I used them , but did it in a completely different way, but that's another story!
I had 'eyelets' spare, but none big enough, so I thought,"what else is there I can use for these buggers?"
So I came up with a humble and a readily available source,and cheap!(raid the bathroom) cotton buds!!, not the fluffy bit, the plastic tube!. If you drill out your portholes to a size that these fit tightly, insert the ends, push it fair in, then trim with a new blade, or cut them to about a 1/4 of an inch and push them with the 'other end' of a drill, (anything round that is wider than the tube)
I've did all mine in this way and it looks quite 'realistic', each porthole looks like a 'separate fitting' and not just a hole!. Give it a go on a spare bit of wood and see how you go, just a thought to spread around, but it worked for me!!...Dave.

P/s, if you are sailing her, you could 'crimp' or use something to 'fill' the 'inserted' end, not too hard a job to keep it watertight and still have a clean looking porthole!!??
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 22, 2008, 12:17:39 AM
Excellent suggestion!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Bismartin on October 24, 2008, 11:27:50 PM
Thats an excellent idea. I've done warships before and used brass tubing from the local model shop. Cut, smoothed and filled with clear glue to give that glass effect but hadn't considered anything for this one yet :)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on October 26, 2008, 09:14:35 PM
Hi Dave, I was so take by your idea about cotton buds, i thought I'd have a bash at it.

I must say that i am really pleased with it, thanks for the tip!!!! :-))

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/100_0211-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 26, 2008, 11:20:40 PM
First time that I've seen an idea of mine posted and actually put into practise, it does look good, great job Eric65!!..Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 26, 2008, 11:49:31 PM
Even better Eric65 when I see my idea being posted by a fellow Scot,and from bonnie Argyll..Great!! I'm an ex pat living in Australia, I'm from (maybe not quite as 'bonnie')...Motherwell! We leave this Saturday for a 2 month holiday over there, can't wait, I'll be at odds not doing the Bismarck, but I'll be keeping up with the Forums...."all the best, and here's tae us, there's no many like us, and they're awe deed!!"....Dave.

P/s, did the frogs no geez a gubbin at the Rugby??!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on October 27, 2008, 08:58:54 PM
Where abouts in Oz are you Dave?

I spent a very happy year back-packing around Oz in '89-'90. Fantastic country, loved every minute of it!

As a loyal Scot, I wish that we could play sport internationally, but lets face it......it's usually just plain embarrasing....
Now, if anybody wants to come over for a wee game of Shinty....that would be different!!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 28, 2008, 12:18:30 AM
I'm in Canberra Eric, didn't go and see the Scots play, I had a preminition that we would get a gubbin' and if I went I'd be involved in some sort of slagging match with the 'frogs', so it was a safe bet to watch it 'LIVE' on the TV!!
I lived in 'The Alice' circa 'Lockerbie' 88, but I believe we were still in Alice in 89, it's a beautiful Town, but way to isolated for a 'towny' like myself, so Canberra it was.
As you said it's a beautiful country this Australia, Alice in the NT(managed Darwin for a week-end!!) and into northern QLD has been my ultimate foray into the country, but it's my ultimate goal to return to where my 'heart' is, get a wee 'but'n'ben' and live out the rest of my life finishing off the Bismarck....and about a dozen or so others!!
Anyhoo, don't wanna bore the 'readers' oot rer way ra patter innat, just settle back and wait for 'take off' on Saturday...Scotland.... Sunday!!         Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 29, 2008, 11:56:44 PM
Anybody aware out there of 'Hatchette' supplying individual planking for the decks????. Apparently they said in issue 1 they would!! Some guy on 'another site' called them up and he said that they are supplying these to him, promised apparently!!HMMM???
Personally I can't imagine that for one minute, this kit, 'as is' is supposed to be aimed at even the 'first time' builders, just can't think how Joe Soap (new guy) would act if faced with literally hundreds of these and all the 'jargon' that goes with the fitting of 'separate' planking, god, the hull planking was bad enough!!....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 30, 2008, 07:31:19 AM

Wasn't there also talk of laser cut/ scored  planking?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on October 31, 2008, 12:46:11 PM
For those in the UK who asked about this they were sent a bunch of 1mm wide strips of wood, bet they wished they never asked {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 31, 2008, 12:51:03 PM
Beth44,

How long will you be overseas mate, as I will be in
Canberra in January for a week would love to meet
you if possible....

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 04, 2008, 06:13:41 AM
  <:( and I was doing so well, a bilge keel bites the dust. Choices now are 1. a patch job (but I'd know it'd been patched) or 2. Try to source a back issue of 37/38. Putting it away for today in case it gets worse.
Just having a rant and thought this'd be a good place for it
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 04, 2008, 07:40:45 AM
What happened Oz?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on November 04, 2008, 10:02:17 PM
I'd put off sanding the keels until, well, until I got around to it and once the second planking was done I'd attach them.

Having decided on the 'right-angled triangle' profile with the longest face uppermost I thought I'd marked which face to sand and marked fore and aft ( both ends on the ones I'd recieved weren't symetrical, one end having a slightly longer taper). The first one went like a charm, I started to work on the second and sure enough, had started on the wrong face.

I've ended up patching it by trimming back the layer of ply that I'd started to sand, making that section 2-ply instead of 3 and then glueing in some scrap from the second planking, making it back into 3-ply. I think it looks like a good patch, once it's painted no-one but me will know what's under the plank.

I often hear people say "measure twice, cut once" but I'm still trying to understand how I can measure three or four times and still mess it up {:-{
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: SteamboatPhil on November 04, 2008, 10:50:17 PM
You are not alone  :((
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 04, 2008, 11:35:56 PM
Me three!  :'(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: existensialxa on November 28, 2008, 11:51:01 AM
Hi everyone,

My name is Phil and I am a novice modeller from Lancashire.  New to the site, but up to date with the model. Have stopped at the main armament turrets.

I would like to make them rotate and elevate but am struggling to work out how to do it - any ideas ?

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 28, 2008, 12:14:53 PM
Have a look at:
http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=markus&action=display&thread=1062
http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=markus&action=display&thread=956
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: existensialxa on November 30, 2008, 07:54:58 PM
Thanks Martin,

I have developed the fixed cam system using plumbing pipe (40mm) but was hoping someone would have worked out if you can fit a servo in the turret ?

Also, I tried to mount the servo's lower down for stability reasons, but have come across a torque problem. Any idea's ?

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 02, 2008, 02:22:37 PM
Via email to Mayhem....

Hi,   
........ this is my 1st attempt at model building, when I saw the
"Bismarck" I had to have a go, and here it is. Have got this far and have
decided to insert Radio control, so hope that this will not cause a problem.
Am going along as the instructions say, at times they don't make sense
perhaps that me at 74 but really enjoying it. Have managed to get info from
a Bismarck site Subifa but don't know any German, at least I can see what is
coming next. Great site you have with plenty of reading

Noel
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on December 02, 2008, 09:08:03 PM
very nice Noel, you should be re-directed shortly :-))nudge , nudge Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Mc Fly on December 09, 2008, 08:32:06 PM
hi mens,

i find the topic for presentations....

I'm a french ship modeler, i've begining the bismarck few mounth ago :D i've mounted 4 ship kits...

and i have a problem with this resin part :
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT3386.jpg)
I don't have the big one !
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jock on December 11, 2008, 04:24:55 AM
I've got both parts but they got mixed up so I.m not sure which is the correct one.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 11, 2008, 09:35:20 AM
Me too!  :embarrassed:


If I remember correctly you're going to need the larger of the two stern resin pieces. The smaller one and the filler wood piece leave the anchor recess in the wrong spot.

Have fun. O0 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Mc Fly on December 11, 2008, 11:51:05 AM
i need the big one :D, the smallest is good, but, not when i glu the second plaking :D %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Mc Fly on December 12, 2008, 09:10:52 PM
with witch book come the big one?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 13, 2008, 01:41:20 AM
Replacement part in issue 36

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg81524#msg81524
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg70828#msg70828

Also:

http://buildthebismark.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=diarys&action=display&thread=1023&page=4
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on December 13, 2008, 11:49:17 AM
Martin,

You must be about ready for the next installment in your build............. :-)) :-))


Roy


PS It's been a while.....................
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 13, 2008, 04:08:06 PM
As soon as my shoulder stops hurting me... bad day today.  <:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Mc Fly on December 19, 2008, 06:09:32 AM
a french team of hachet have send me a mail and say:

Quote
Hello,
Ah! The (net).....

The piece of bow supplied with France is everything made correct. She corresponds in thickness to both line.

Good construction.

can you please give me all dimentions of the good part ?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on January 15, 2009, 12:14:33 AM
G'day everybody, well back safe and sound from Scotland,( just have to get over the 'jet lag' that I've had for nearly 24 Years!!!) It was a fun trip, but I missed my 'build it'. (nothing much else, I'm afraid to say!)
Now that I'm back I've been slow to get into it, 12 issues were waiting on me..64-75. I'm working my way slowly through them, bit HOT here in Aussieland, not very pleasant working conditions at all, so when there is a 'COOL' spell, I'm in the garage getting on with it!!! I'm finishing off the aft Control station, just generally putting the parts together until I decide to paint them, then I'll start securing the brass parts to the wooden structures. I'm glazing the 'portholes/windows', so all the parts that have these have to be painted before the glazing is fixed in place from behind.
I hope everone has got their little problems solved like mr McFly and his resin parts! The bottom part is the so called second part with the revised anchor pocket, but technically, it's not correct either, well let's put it this way, the way the pocket sits is correct if you were not gluing the part 'under' the aft deck section. The resin part would have to fit directly to the stern with the top forming the deck part, but it would then have to be cut in half, disected through it's middle to fit, way too much bother!!...Dave..(more later)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on January 15, 2009, 03:45:32 AM
I'ts later, the aft anchor. If you gets yourself a good photo of the stern you can see that even the new 'pocket' is'nt quite in the correct position. I'ts should be almost at deck level and it's relation to the aft portholes is wrong.
What I did was, as I still had the old resin part, I thought (??) "maybe" if I could 'cut out' the anchor pocket from that, then 'transplant' it to a more 'correct' position on the 'new' bit, "hmmm??" (that part IS fitted by the way, this was an after thought!)
So I got 'cutting' and by accident I found that my soldering iron went through it like butter, much easier! I successfully cut the thing out and filed and sanded it to shape. Once satisfied she was right I placed a small bit of paper over it and did a 'pencil rubbing', this gave me the true shape, that was cut out and I placed it over the the 'in situ' anchor pocket and when the placement was right with the deck and portholes it was marked with a 'fine art pen' and then all that was needed was to cut, gouge, drill out a hole, bung in some filler (I use Tamiya 'grey' plastic putty) and place the 'new new' pocket in it until satisfied the position is correct. Slight pressure was applied and the excess filler oozes out, this is smoothed out and allowed to set.
More filler is used if necessary, then a wee of bit of carefull sanding with fine paper(I dripped a couple of light blobs of superglue round the edge before sanding)  until it was 'as one'. The end result speaks for itself with a more realistically placed anchor, and all it cost was time and effort!
 
(I'm not very good on computers and have big problems posting photos, so if anybody wants to see the end result go to the Google web page "Titanic Titanic..Build the Bismarck site, page 14, my friend posted them for me!).......Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 15, 2009, 05:46:26 AM
This page Dave?  http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/othersframe.htm
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Mat_B on January 15, 2009, 06:24:40 PM
hi :}
realy want to build this now after seeing everyones pics, but cant get the isues.
has anyone taken photo copys of frames etc that they could e-mail to me?

MAt %%

thank :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 15, 2009, 06:38:49 PM


Have a look on fleabay! 


http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=Build+the+Bismarck&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on January 19, 2009, 03:16:32 AM
Hello Martin,thanks for looking!!, that's one lot,(Mark UK's site) the first 24 are of mine in the 'early build it' stages of the hull. The 'other' lot are (gave you a bum steer!!)'Google.... 'build the bismarck' then find the header beginning "Titanic Titanic" (It's usually on the first page) Go into the site and click on page 14, all the gaff under the header 'berth44' (again) is mine, it's not hard to find as it's  mostly me!!!.......Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on January 26, 2009, 05:00:48 PM
Nice to see that you've finally got the 2nd planking licked - would you like to finish mine for me now ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on January 29, 2009, 11:17:35 PM
Making slow progress,finally finished off the mast and now working through the brass bits. Only gluing the brass sides that don't have portholes or windows to the woodwork. Ones 'with' will be painted first, then glazed from behind, only then these will then be glued in place.
When fitting one of these brass sides into a 'recess', I found that the part seemed a wee bit big, it would require filing on the bottom (or top) to make it 'flush; with the wood," Hmmm??" I thought of this, if you lightly score/groove the recess along it's length with a blade,( or a sharp pointed tool, say a scriber, maybe even a dart!) where the brass fits into the 'roof' or an 'upper deck', this should 'allow' the brass to slip into 'the groove', therefore you should be able to 'flush fit' the brass without any filing!! It's worked for me on the two parts that I have completed!.
Lastly, a wee tip for the mast when completed, seeing it's 'very fragile', rather than laying it down somewhere or leaving it 'on the job', I made a wee 'stand' for it, small block of wood, 3mm hole, and for the bit that goes into the brass tube a wooden meat skewer did the job!! Took all of 2 minutes to do and now the mast is safe, erect, and out of the way until it is required!....just a couple ot things to ponder on....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 29, 2009, 11:36:35 PM
Hi Berth44,

"score/groove the recess along it's length"... interesting, do you have any pictures please?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on January 30, 2009, 02:38:50 AM
Hello Martin, in a word, no! I really should learn how to get photo's on line, never sort of been a computer person. I've got the digital camera and I did start off pretty keen and take pictures of the build, and I know that a picture can say a thousand words, so I really should learn Martin, but I've been shown before, and HAVE been successful, but, I just forget....I'm a "idiot"!!!
So, in the absence of a photo, try this, take a piece of a wooden fret, and with a steel rule as as a guide, run along it with a Knife/blade for a couple of inches, then take a brass part and work it into the cut/groove, if it does'nt fit, a sharp pointed tool as I've mentioned should do the trick! This should then give you an idea as to what I meant and be self explanitory as to how it translates to the job at hand!.....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 30, 2009, 06:54:55 AM
If you do have any photos, email them to me and I'll put them on here for you.  :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: wowan999 on January 30, 2009, 05:25:18 PM
All greetings from Russia at us have appeared first number Bismarck I have decided to collect I understand you here the master it would be desirable to reach with your help the purpose
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 30, 2009, 05:38:28 PM
Wowan999 Здравствуйте, добро пожаловать в Mayhem. Пожалуйста, не стесняйтесь, задавайте вопросы здесь.
Regards, Martin


Hello wowan999, Welcome to Mayhem. Please feel free to ask questions here.
Regards, Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peterm on January 30, 2009, 06:18:52 PM
Is there no limit to this man`s talent?  Pete M
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 30, 2009, 06:59:10 PM
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate_t# (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate_t#)

              ok2
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dougal99 on January 30, 2009, 07:54:12 PM
Ah but did you translate it back to english? You can get some interesting results  :-))

Doug

(trying to learn German - badly)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Andre ZS1AZ on February 01, 2009, 12:26:11 PM
Hi Martin, I have been following your build with some interest.  In South Africa we are slightly behind magazine wise, but boy o boy, am I far behind building wise.  I think that Berth 44 can attest to that.  Hi to you as well Dave.  Thanks for the long post on 'our site'.  I will pop in here every now and then.  Still busy with the first lot of planking.  Cheers....Andre
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on February 02, 2009, 07:30:55 PM
Via email to Mayhem...

 Hi,   Getting into all sorts of problems using the forum, and attaching a
 photo. As I said this is my 1st attempt at model building, when I saw the
 "Bismarck" I had to have a go, and here it is. Have got this far and have
 decided to insert Radio control, so hope that this will not cause a
 problem.

 Am going along as the instructions say, at times they don't make sense
 perhaps that me at 74 but really enjoying it. Have managed to get info
 from a Bismarck site Subifa but don't know any German, at least I can see what
 is coming next. Great site you have with plenty of reading

 Noel
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 02, 2009, 11:45:38 PM
Hello Noel, model looks great, If I can find all me stuff and successfully put it together, she would look just like yours, without the red paint job!!. I'm not to clever getting the pictures on board either. Martin came up with a solution, so I may do as he says.....happy building Noel!....Dave.

P/S, be aware, be very aware of the  'South African' called 'Andre', bit of a scoundrel he is...."Shssss" don't say his name too loud or he might hear you!!...

PP/S, OK, let the truth be known, he's a great guy and has helped me out heaps by posting some photo's of my build on 'another site' that him and I....."own", well, we are the only two who 'post' stuff on it!!........
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 13, 2009, 11:28:44 PM
I believe that when it was rediscovered they found that the stern had broken off so maybe the spelling is correct... :D

I suppose that if you missed one of the instalments, your model might end up the same way.

Make sure it is all there.
I bought a part works Titanic and the tops of the bulkheads were missing. ::)
I'm just waiting for the inevitable :D

Are they going to do a battlecruiser?  %)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 14, 2009, 12:08:55 AM
Quote
Are they going to do a battlecruiser?

Will this one do? Nearly 10 metres long and built from Lego!

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 16, 2009, 04:25:54 AM
Very clever Mr Bishop...how long did it take you to put that together???....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 16, 2009, 11:46:20 AM
You should see what all those little studs do to the compression ration on a JPEG file! I'd swear the camera got warm..... %)

Colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 19, 2009, 02:35:41 AM
I'm at the painting stage, now, I'm NOT doing the 'stripey thing', plain 'ole grey, now which one??. I've opted for 'medium grey' and I have 'airbrushed'  all the brass bits  that I have completed so far, but I'm beginning to think that I should have used a 'light sea grey'instead. Can somebody put me right before I reach a point of no return...please???...Dave
Title: Coulors
Post by: LeoS on February 19, 2009, 11:02:17 AM
Berth

Here you'll find the RAL paint numbers.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/paint_schemes/introduction.html

Leo
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 19, 2009, 11:50:02 AM
If I was you, I go for a satin paint.. looks far neater on a model than matt.

About 'grey', not all greys are the same. I went with humbrol m64 but in some lights, that's a bluey-light grey. I wish I'd thought more about the paint and not just picked 'the nearest in the humbrol range'.

I'd have preferred a more silvery light grey than a bluey-light grey.

And if I had my time again, I'd get together a load of paint swatches and pick out a set of tones that went together well, not jus pick the right colours that may not sit as well together even though they are 100% accurate. I'd have gone for the good looking model.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hagar on February 19, 2009, 07:04:01 PM
I'm at the painting stage, now, I'm NOT doing the 'stripey thing', plain 'ole grey, now which one??. I've opted for 'medium grey' and I have 'airbrushed'  all the brass bits  that I have completed so far, but I'm beginning to think that I should have used a 'light sea grey'instead. Can somebody put me right before I reach a point of no return...please???...Dave

Here you go; every thing you need to know. RAL nr. Colour name, and THE Paint that hits the spot!!!
http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody

Or the Kriegmarin range maybe; http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody
(just a happy customer, spreading the word)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on February 19, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
You mean I can't paint mine Metallic Tahitian Blue ?!?!   <:(
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on February 19, 2009, 11:03:05 PM
You mean I can't paint mine Metallic Tahitian Blue ?!?!   <:(
Why not Martin, it would look beeeeeuuuutiful  O0 {-)

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 20, 2009, 12:04:56 AM
Thank you fellow modellers for the information, much appreciated for sure!, only thing was as I'm an impatient type of fellow I ran off to my local supplier of 'Humbrol' paints and purchased 2 tins of 'light grey matt 76' and after giving it a 'trial run', I thought, looks more like it, better than the 'medium!!', and proceeded to re-spray all the stuff that I'd done previously. (only then do you find you've got replies, not used to that,but I'm still listening!!))
I found in a couple of instances that the light grey wouldn't cover the darker grey, but it actually looked quite good...instant used look!! Anyway, I thought, I'd better fix it,as I want the ship to look 'relatively new' So I decided to use my 'fibre glass pen', this took off a layer of fine paint/dust (?) leaving a quite clean but 'streaky' light grey, and I thought that looked even better! I then rubbed the thing with my finger, this put a light sheen on the paintwork,and I thought, wow, this is even better still!!
I did another few parts, but I'm thinking this'll take some time to do, maybe I'll give it another coat of light grey??!!...or maybe as Martin suggested, 'Tahitian Blue' if all else fails, at least it'll be individual for sure!!........Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 20, 2009, 11:05:27 AM
I ran off to my local supplier of 'Humbrol' paints and purchased 2 tins of 'light grey matt 76' and after giving it a 'trial run',...

I found in a couple of instances that the light grey wouldn't cover the darker grey, but it actually looked quite good...instant used look!! Anyway, I thought, I'd better fix it,as I want the ship to look 'relatively new' So I decided to use my 'fibre glass pen', this took off a layer of fine paint/dust (?) leaving a quite clean but 'streaky' light grey, and I thought that looked even better! I then rubbed the thing with my finger, this put a light sheen on the paintwork,and I thought, wow, this is even better still!!


Told ya!  :-))

Dave 'light grey matt 76? I can't find that mate. Matt steel grey in M87, that it?

There are some nice light greys in the satin range and some inbetween m140 and m147.

I'm looking for a mid-grey with a touch of violet in it, anyone got a humbrol or any other range that would suit? Cheers
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Xaro on February 22, 2009, 01:06:20 PM
Hi everyone
To start with: I'm not used to write English, so excuse me for any writing or gramatical mistakes :-))
I'm a nearly 65 years old Belgian who just have started the building of the vessel. Im awaiting part 4, so llots of work coming up.
So far I've only build some plastic model kits in the past years, so I will have a lot of learning to do.
I hope to may post some questions here if problems are ( surely) coming up.
From Belgium (with love ;)
Xaro
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on February 22, 2009, 01:17:56 PM
Welcome aboard Xaro!   :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 22, 2009, 11:59:06 PM
G'day all, thanks TCC, but the colour is definately 'matt 76', says it on the lid!! So continuing on, I got all the brass that I was'nt satisfied with and using the 'fibre pen' cleaned everything up and resprayed it. I'm adding a Dark gray/black line at the base of All cabin and bulkhead structures, tried masking it, pulled the paint off, so I ended up using a 'Fine Compact Disc/ CD black marker to do this with a 90% 'that's the very fellow' and a 10% 'that'll no dae' rate!!, ("spray it again Sham!!)
 Unfortunately, this leaves a sort of 'reddish blue sheen' when the light hits it from a certain angle, but when the 'Satin Varnish' is applied, it goes away!!, so I'm quite happy with the result, and it's a lot quicker than doing it 'freehand' with a paint brush!! ...Dave

P/S, "Velcom", Xaro!!........don't be afraid to ask questions, the guys on this Forum' will be only to glad to help you out...we've all been where you are, just remember, there's no hurry, read your instructions, deviate if you must, finding a way is what it's about..your the man!!             
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 23, 2009, 12:33:50 AM
G'day all, thanks TCC, but the colour is definately 'matt 76', says it on the lid!! So continuing on, I got all the brass that I was'nt satisfied with and using the 'fibre pen' cleaned everything up and resprayed it. I'm adding a Dark gray/black line at the base of All cabin and bulkhead structures, tried masking it, pulled the paint off, so I ended up using a 'Fine Compact Disc/ CD black marker to do this with a 90% 'that's the very fellow' and a 10% 'that'll no dae' rate!!, ("spray it again Sham!!)
 Unfortunately, this leaves a sort of 'reddish blue sheen' when the light hits it from a certain angle, but when the 'Satin Varnish' is applied, it goes away!!, so I'm quite happy with the result, and it's a lot quicker than doing it 'freehand' with a paint brush!! ...Dave

P/S, "Velcom", Xaro!!........don't be afraid to ask questions, the guys on this Forum' will be only to glad to help you out...we've all been where you are, just remember, there's no hurry, read your instructions, deviate if you must, finding a way is what it's about..your the man!!             

Dave
 M76 is 'Matt Uniform Green', that it? M67 is 'Matt Tank Grey'.. confused as to what Humbrol colour you've used.

Good tip about the CD pen along the bottoms of the painted surfaces, I was going to try painting strips of paper 2mm wide and glueing them along. Maybe site them first 'dry' and touch the bottom with the CA tube and allow the paper to soak it in. But I'm not at this stage yet.

The bad side of doing the above is you'll have an edge of paper on view, and even if it's painted, they didn't have a skirting board-like member along the bottom, did they?.

What colour pen did you use?

Drawbacks? Any concerns as to logevity? (fading?)

Cheers.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 23, 2009, 03:25:14 AM
Hey TCC, thanks for the reply. You've got me thinking now, but the one thing it is not, is green!! I'm absoutely 100% that it says 76 on the lid of the can, but it'll be the first thing that I check when I go into the garage this avvo...apart from opening the windows to let the heat out!!
The CD/DVD pen is BLACK, I really don't know if it's available in grey.(?) In real life, it's hard to determine whether the actual line line is 'dark grey' or' black'(??) In black and white photos, which most of them are anyway, it does look a dark grey in some, but then another shows it's positively black, it's so hard to find two photos the same!!!. So I guess, it's up to the modeller as to how one should portray this line, or as you say TCC, 'skirting!' (the same theory applies to the ships actual Grey, is it dark, or light???)
Looking and studying photos, it sure looks like it's painted!!. As far as fading goes in the long term??, could'nt say, but I'm thinking that it'll last a long time as it's been varnished??! On the 'real thing' I only thought this 'skirting' was applied from new up until she was 'painted out' for it's final forey into the Atlantic in '41, but if you 'Google' the 1/200th Bismarck by Peter Beisheim, it looks like he has this in place, so if he's right, and all the other info is right, then we should all be painting this line in??!!...Dave.

P/S, I'm thinking, what about transfers???,anyone who makes their own could quite easily make a big black sheet and cut strips from it, or what about transfers for model cars, how many modes do we see with big bold black stripes, I'm certain they can be bought separately from good model shops??, just a parting thought!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 23, 2009, 07:12:56 PM
Dave
I didn't want to seem to be harping on about that colour... it's just curiousity.

Fading
I'd think the varnish will be very good for it (the pen ink).

The painted 'Skirting'
I always thought these were painted in from new and for the lifetime of the ship. Purpose? Aren't the black strips so wet mops and any dirty water won't stain the lighter grey paintwork? I've never give them a thought but all the ships I've ever been on have got this strip at the bottom of painted surfaces.

In saying the above, J Haynes LION has mid grey 'skirtings' on a very light grey paintwork.

Therefore, I think it's one of those 'it's up to the modeller' type things and that this area was one of those things that constantly changed and was left up to theofficer on the spot and what paint the ship had. Anyone know anything differemt?

I have a pretty good 'on deck' image from Bismark, it's of one of the secondary guns and there's a wall behind it with a row of taps along. I scanned it for you and Martin and all you other guys who've had a taste transplant. (German WW2 ships? They're even worse than modern RN!  {-))

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/001-spanky/BismarkDeck.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/001-spanky/BismarkPortStern.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/001-spanky/BismarkStbStern.jpg)

Just call me 'Mr Scan' as that's all I seem to be doing nowadays. Nah, Martin helped me out the other day with images, as have others, so I'm returning the help and helping bolster Mayhems rep as a 'helpful' site.  :-))

p.s I'm joking about other peoples models!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 23, 2009, 09:27:37 PM
 Mr Scan man,??, It's got a good ring to it 'TCC', could even be a song title, first verse, "hey Mr Scaaaann Man, do a scan for me, am all out to sea" ( Hum it to an old  'Byrds' tune, Mr Tamborine man!!??).........Anyway thanks for doing that, certainly shows the 'skirting' for sure!, and more than likely, the colour is a 'dark grey', but for me, black it is!!
 My trips aboard ships are few, but I can remember on trips 'Doon the Watter' in the old paddle steamers, ie..'The Waverly'. Later on in life trips accross to Europe, and yes, that line was always there, usually green, but you don't know why (should've asked me dad, he was in the Royal Navy during WW2, bit late now mind you!!) Swabbing the decks (harr) sounds like a good and logical reason, I just can't think of any myself, I'm sure someone out there must know????.
Lastly, did a bit more last night, the 'pen' works fine on the straight bits, bit more difficult in the curved sections, I keep making the line too wide!, so I have to remove it, re-spray, then do it again, I think I should be wearing my 'head magnifiers', I'll give that a go next time!!...."OOPS!!"... I forgot to look at the paint number on the lid, but I'll do it tonight ...for sure!        Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 24, 2009, 12:42:33 PM
Yeah, but did you have the image? (the deck on with the taps?) I'd kill for one of them of my ship.

Can't you use a ruler? Use it to keep the nib towards the edge and away from encroaching 'up' the wall?

I knew there would be these isues to face. That's why I thought 'pre-painted paper strips'. You may even get away with using PVA and sliding them into position, and just do you best to stop glue getting on the finished surface above.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 24, 2009, 12:51:27 PM
You could try using black Trimline tape. There is a selection of widths and you can varnish over it if you want to tone it down. Hardly any thicker than a coat of paint and it is repositionable to a certain extent.

Example here: http://balsamart.co.uk/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=109_297

Colin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hagar on February 24, 2009, 06:26:39 PM
Could a paint pen, such as those tamiya sell do the trick. If you paint before assembling, you could trim the tip og the pen, and tape a wire guide to it. Run it around the bottom, using the guide to kep the pen right at the edge. Bobs your uncle!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 25, 2009, 12:03:50 AM
Gentlemen, I thank you all for your responses, it's what the site is all about!! TCC, "yip" I did see the image, I've seen it before, but a lot smaller, and now that I know that the 'long thing' is a row of taps, it stops me from wondering!! It is represented on the model I believe, but obviously not in such detail!. I did model a 'drinking well and tap' on my 'Amati TITANIC', that's an even smaller 1/250th scale! I made the well out of a bit of plastic sprue and the tap was a bent piece of copper wire of a miniscule nature, and between the two, look the part!! Using a ruler would be impossibly hard (I think)as these brass parts have doors, vents, vent covers etc etc as  pronounced etchings.
    I found out 'accidentally' that the CD/DVD pen was infact 'double sided', so, if the finer tip is used to first draw in the 'top line', the 'bottom line' can be filled in by using the 'fine' liner again, or the other 'fatter' end. I'm thinking that your paper idea is really good, glued on with craft glue and then varnished might work, but would the overall varnishing maybe 'crimple' the paper as it does with transfers??..."HMM??"
Colin, I've seen that'Trim Line' tape used before as the 'gold band' on the above TITANIC, personally if I had thought of it I would have gone for the TRANSFER, you can get some sort of 'sealer' that moulds the thing over individual detail parts, ie, rivets, so it may have did the same with the doors and vents on the brass as I've mentioned above, but I've noted 'Trim line' into my diary for any future projects that I attempt!!
   Ian M, the 'TAMIYA' paint pen was my FIRST thought as it was ideal, and avail in D'Grey!! I had purchased 2 from E Bay and used them for doing the exact same thing on my 1/350th TAMIYA Battleship Missouri with great success, and No GUIDES!! (a couple of BOY SCOUTS had to do!!) I could'nt find anymore on E Bay, nor did my local model shop stock them, so 'the pen' was it!!!..".Bobs yer uncle!!"....thanks everybody for the info, all noted!!.............Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 25, 2009, 02:47:26 AM
"Hey TCC!!", forgot to mention, the lid definately has 'matt 76' on it, and yes, it's Humbrol and it's 'light grey', so, I'm afraid I aint got a Scooby Doo!!...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on February 25, 2009, 10:56:21 AM
Dave
Glad the images highlighted it a bit.

Could the different humbro, no be due to me looking at a UK paint chart while you are in Oz? It's either that (which I'd think would be highly impractical of them) or yours is from an old range? But they guide I'm looking at it 10+ yrs olf and that's the same as a new one in the front of a Squires catalogue.

I don't have a clue, either.

Colin, that tape sounds the biz... what is it exactly? What is it used for? Is it a thinner version of 'pinstripe' apes you used to get for cars in the 80s? If it's just a 'sticky back', it will need a varnish over it to keep it firmly on over the years, I'd think. Cheers mate.

Re: Transfers.
You can get blank A4 sheets that will go through an inkjet, or toner, and you can make your own transfers. I looked into it briefly but you can't print 'white' with an inkjet.

But why do the above when I can buy colins £3 rolls that come in the right size.

Cheers lads
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 25, 2009, 11:09:15 AM
Quote
Colin, that tape sounds the biz... what is it exactly? What is it used for? Is it a thinner version of 'pinstripe' tapes you used to get for cars in the 80s? If it's just a 'sticky back', it will need a varnish over it to keep it firmly on over the years, I'd think. Cheers mate.

It is like the car pinstripe tape in that it is applied in a similar way by peeling off the backing. But it is considerably thinner and the adhesive is waterproof although I usually apply varnish over it anyway on the belt and braces principle.

Colin

Technical info:

TrimLine

Self Adhesive Coach Line. A 2½ metre length of 8 different width tapes on one roll. Widths' 0.5, 0.8, 1.3, 2.1, 3.3, 5.0, 7.0 and 10.0 mm. Colours available Black, White, Red, Yellow, Royal Blue, Sky Blue, Green, Orange, Silver, Gold, Lime Pink, Purple, Lilac, Cerise, Dark Blue, Turquoise and Wine.

 

 The specially developed material adheres well to all surfaces and can be taken around tight curves without shrinking back and can be shaped around compound curves easily. The range of sizes from 0.5mm upward means there is a size to fit all models from the smallest train to the largest aircraft.

 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on February 25, 2009, 09:18:38 PM
I wonder if it is available in Oz Colin??,  (probably not, this place sucks when it comes to getting simple or specialised model stuff!! I collect BR locomotives 'OO' with a view to actually having a layout at some time!, and when I was back 'home' in Scotland last Nov/Dec I visited the 'Warley' model Railway Exhibition in Birmingham, it became blatantly  obvious just exactly what I was missing!!! ) This stupid marker has just dried up! It's not too late to use something dif'rent!!...Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 05, 2009, 10:53:33 PM
G'day, well, it doesn't get worse that this, issues 80-83 despatched on the 12TH February 'lost in space,gone, vanished into thin air!!' (how, who would want them???), so replacements have beeen ordered by my supplier, so that could take up to the next 12TH, like the 12Th of never, so this boy could be dead in the water once I have all the brass sides painted, glazed, and fitted.
Any you builders out there have decking problems??.'Dry fitting' the ' lasered' deck part to the aft deck section that goes round the brass in issue 62, I found it was at least 3mm too wide, well, either that was out or the wooden superstucture that the above mentioned brass fits was too small. I could have made up this 'wooden' bit to fit the decking better with 'PLasticard', but seeing the brass was 'finished off', fully painted and glazed, to flatten it out and rebend it to fit the 'wider' wood part was out of the question. The only way to 'fix it' was to cut the deck into two sections and by removing a couple of planks managed to get this thing to fit as best as I could!..hope it's not a sign of things to come??.....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 16, 2009, 09:27:22 PM
G'day, good news for me, missing issues '80-83' were re-supplied by my 'supplier', one week after I called them,(the parts were dispatched to me on the 12th February, but I didn't receive them. I called them, when I thought, "where's my latest lot?" A certain time is allowed (it seems) to pass before the parts are actually deemed ' MIA' and I was instructed to call them again a week later if they didn't arrive, they didn't, but one week after the call, they did!, that was the week my friends!!)) so I say that was great service indeed, why they went missing in the first place??, who knows!, but all I can say in defence of my 'Australian Supplier' is that the service they give is spot on, as far as I'm concerned..and this has not been the first time either!
Earlier on in the 'planking process' I was unsatisfied with the quality on a batch of the '2ND' lot..... replaced, the resin stern part..... replaced...twice!! All came with my next lot of issues, no problems, and more recently in issue 70 I had a small resin part missing...replaced....So, there you go crew, and this afternoon I'm going to call them and say thanks...I'm sure the operators will be happy with a bit of 'positive feedback' instead of the grillings that they'll no doubt get from irate customers!!...Now we can get back to 'the build'....but not this week, a bit busy with 'other things!....Dave.

P/S I also received issues 83-88 as well, so that's 8 issues to work on!!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on March 17, 2009, 06:03:51 AM
So Martin,
Are we going to see any more of your Bismarck? or have you decided she'll do nicely as a barge without all that silly superstructure?
Cheers
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 17, 2009, 10:48:57 PM
"Hmmm", I'm thinking it was more like an 'Aircraft carrier', that's what mine is at the moment, with a spitfire on it's deck!......Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TCC on March 18, 2009, 01:36:49 PM
"Hmmm", I'm thinking it was more like an 'Aircraft carrier', that's what mine is at the moment, with a spitfire on it's deck!......Dave

Well you're only doing what they did with a lot of the 1st wars batlecruisers.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on March 18, 2009, 09:03:33 PM
or she'd make a nice Japanese Carrier (scans to 'Tora, Tora, tora' ... mmmmmmmmmmm, carrier)  8)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 18, 2009, 10:39:52 PM
Hopefully she's not going to be like that for long, but then I'm thinking??, "probably", there's a lot still to be done on the superstructure, so she's gonna be a 'flat top' for a few months yet, might get rid of the 'spitfire' and place the 1/200th 747 on deck....just to be different!!........Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on March 19, 2009, 11:18:32 PM
I'm in the throws of widening my hull and deck amidships by about 1.5mm each side, just inside the armourd belt recess.

Test fitting of the supplied decks has shown she is just a tad narrow as I want to maintain the 1 to 1.5mm gap between the decking and deck edge so I can fit the rails in it.

Ah well, such is life......
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 22, 2009, 09:12:36 PM
Interesting point Eric65, need to look out for that, but I might be OK as I did my planking round the 'armour belt' from bow to stern in a very different way to the 'AMATI' instructions, but as I haven't quite reached the 'decking point' as yet,I don't know how it will be, but I'm hoping it will be OK!   Obviously,  you must be a wee bit further ahead in your construction, thanks for the 'pointer' in any case!
 How did you find other parts of the ' laser cut' decking??, I've only 'dry fitted' one deck and that was a hit and miss affair!....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on March 22, 2009, 10:23:26 PM
well everybody,

your doiing a great job building the bismarck. I also have my problems building the great battleship.
here you can watch me building the Bismarck   :-))
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15180.0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on March 22, 2009, 10:41:23 PM
Interesting point Eric65, need to look out for that, but I might be OK as I did my planking round the 'armour belt' from bow to stern in a very different way to the 'AMATI' instructions, but as I haven't quite reached the 'decking point' as yet,I don't know how it will be, but I'm hoping it will be OK!   Obviously,  you must be a wee bit further ahead in your construction, thanks for the 'pointer' in any case!
 How did you find other parts of the ' laser cut' decking??, I've only 'dry fitted' one deck and that was a hit and miss affair!....Dave.

I found the decking to be fine, no problems with it at all. Some parts on the upper decks needed small amounts of trimming so they would fit in place, but only a little.  I had considered doing my own planking, but bottled it! Glad I did now.

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 23, 2009, 02:53:11 AM
That first bit I tried on the 'upper deck' (looks like a horse shoe) It was about 3mm wider than the structure it was supposed to fit round!. I cut it in two and removed a couple of planks to try and get a better fit. If the brass hadn't been fished off and glued to the wooden bit, I would have increased the wooden part in size and re-bent the brass rather than cut the decking! ..Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: keef666 on March 23, 2009, 07:29:32 AM
hi everyone can i just add that the black line you are talking about, is called a boot topping, and isn't black but a very dark grey
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 23, 2009, 09:29:27 PM
G'day keef666, I thought the 'boot topping' was the grey/black line between the grey hull and the red keel??? I can't say you are right or wrong on the superstructure, except the fact it is probably 'dark grey', but, when most of the photographs are black and white images,  it's hard to confirm 'black or grey' because of different 'shadows', and of course the actual quality of the image/print, but thanks for that imput, I'm sure there has to be someone in the 'know'
The Battleship 'Missouri' that I was (am still!!) building and superdetailing it as I went along has a 'line' as well, for this I used the 'Tamiya' paint 'pens' and it was dark grey that I used, unfortunately I can't get these in Canberra, the ones that I did have were off of Ebay, and I can't find no more of them!!....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 24, 2009, 10:27:32 AM
Anyone given any thought to painting the camo stripes on the superstructure yet?

Surely with all the detail that has being added its going to be a nightmare to access for masking/painting??
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 24, 2009, 08:47:22 PM
I'm thinking the same thing 'down below', with decking in place, handrails,etc ect 'wow!! If anybody says it wont be a bother, I think I'd be tad inclined  NOT to believe them!!  I'm taking the easy way out, and NOT doing the 'Camo'.......Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on March 24, 2009, 10:41:51 PM
 You could just do the cammo on the hull.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 24, 2009, 11:25:54 PM
G'day rem2007, somehow I don't think that would be the answer...it's all or nothing!!, mind you, you could do as you say then paint it out ( but still with the outline showing through ,seems it was a rushed job!!) This was her condition as per her battle with the Royal Navy, but you got to leave the stripes on the 'boot topping' (the waves on the bow were left on as well!).   Seems when the 'camo' was painted out, she was 'low' in the water and this part was left  'as is'  due to a full compliment of crew, munitions, and provisions for a long spell at sea, but that was cut a wee bit short as we all know!!  The choice my dear friend lies with you, 'the modeller', so many options!........Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on March 25, 2009, 11:39:23 AM
So far I must have been lucky as all my decking
has fitted quite neatly, I just hope the bits to come do
as well........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 25, 2009, 03:01:50 PM
I'm thinking the same thing 'down below', with decking in place, handrails,etc ect 'wow!! If anybody says it wont be a bother, I think I'd be tad inclined  NOT to believe them!!  I'm taking the easy way out, and NOT doing the 'Camo'.......Dave.

It would be nice to finish her as shown in the mags, but I bet most will give up the ghost of camo when they see the nightmare of a task needed without it ending up looking rough.

I can't see how perfect superstructure camo lines are going to be achieved when so much detail has been added, it looks to me like someone forgot to think about this when developing the model, lets see what the mag comes up with, but dont hold your breath for any easy way out as I can see non.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 25, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
G'day Down below, maybe, 'they' (Amati) supply a gang of 'wee painters' in a packet at the end of the build (only if requested??) to clamber over the handrails and all the other bits with their paintpots and brushes in hand,all you do then, just sit back and watch them go for it!!! At what point do we begin?, like you say, "how are we going to do it as most of the superstructure, decks etc will probably be fitted?... who knows??!!.....but I can assume.....with great difficulty!!
 I think there should have been very light etched lines, like on a 'plastic model' and a paint guide, IE, the part to be 'camo' painted described in the instructions with a 'B' or a 'W' tag, again like a plastic kit!, therefor when all the pre-painting of parts is completed, (and let's face it, this HAS to be done!) the parts can then be fixed in place and all the 'camo' patterns should line up with each other 'neatly' and therefor be correct and looking somewhat like it should in the photo's!!.........Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Jonty on March 26, 2009, 12:06:04 AM
  Use a laser to define the lines for the camouflage stripes. You can buy a tape measure that projects  a straight line that would deal with all the awkward changes of surface. In fact, and I wait for the moderators to pounce, you can buy one - at an extremely modest price - from my Ebay shop, The Handyman.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on March 26, 2009, 07:32:48 AM
The problem is not particularly in defining the stripes but carying out the task.

The build has been relentless to the point that the model is near complete in all its very high detail with no thought to painting the camo stripes.
The possibility to spray the camo stripes on the superstructure is long gone because of the complex nature of the detail in place, this leaves brush painting, where masking straight lines is made near impossible because of the detail installed, basically the mag should have tackled this ages ago and not at the last minute, maybe they have a magic wand in one of the coming mags  <*<
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on March 26, 2009, 03:26:11 PM
There is an opt out, one that I might take, and that is to paint her as she was after leaving Bergen.

They painted out all the black and white stripes apart from the slightest hint of it showing through the hull where they did'nt have time to do a proper job.

the only parts left untouched were the bow and stern darker areas with the white bow wave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on March 26, 2009, 08:58:08 PM
G'day gents, the 'other option' is to paint her in plain ole grey (it's a light grey??)as she was during sea trials/commissioning, no sign of any stripes then!!.....and yes!, before you all gets to a thinkin', I'm well aware of bits and pieces that were not fitted as yet, like radar, blast bags on the aft turrets, there were extra  life boats, (this will prove a scratchbuilding challenge to me!),probably other things to, but I'm constantly finding out more as I go along,  but in the end?, who knows what I'll do, all I know (for sure) at this stage, no stripes!!!.........Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on April 02, 2009, 08:42:44 AM
Anyone seen this yet?

http://hmsvictory.deagostini.co.uk/
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on April 02, 2009, 12:39:01 PM
Martin,

Are you ever put up some more work on tour Bismarck,
looking forward to seeing you finish her..........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 02, 2009, 03:10:31 PM
Just got back from seeing my Father in Jamaica so hope to make a restart soon. Martin
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: ronkh on April 02, 2009, 08:18:57 PM
Just got back from seeing my Father in Jamaica so hope to make a restart soon. Martin

Welcome back to the madhouse! %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on April 02, 2009, 08:50:17 PM
Jamaica, see any battleships down that way? {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 03, 2009, 02:08:10 AM
I think the Jamaica navy still have galleons!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 03, 2009, 10:35:27 AM
Quote
I think the Jamaica navy still have galleons!

Of Rum?  :}
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on April 03, 2009, 06:35:10 PM
Gallons.....what, are they not metric yet {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on April 04, 2009, 01:58:52 AM
I think the Jamaica navy still have galleons!

At least they have a navy  O0

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: fooman2008 on April 05, 2009, 04:29:02 PM
Hey all,
I thought the Bismark looked like a bit of a pain, Victory looks like it ought to come with complimentary anti-depressants.  Lots of detail(s) but looks like you have have one of those little microscopes like they use for IVF to achieve that kind of detail.
Has anyone completed their Bismark and actually got it R/C'ed?  I see that Martin had the mechanicals for it but I haven't seen anyone complete one.
If my 7 year old (not really the poster child for patience and detail work)would do it without me having to do it for her. I would almost me tempted to get some of the mags for her to start on (until she got tired of it) and she would leave me alone about my own project(s)
Foo
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on April 06, 2009, 01:42:20 PM
fooman,

Yes Bismarck has motors, rudders, and battery and also sails..........

Well mine does anyway.........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: fooman2008 on April 08, 2009, 05:18:36 AM
Roy,
Let's see the pics man!
Foo :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on April 08, 2009, 03:14:39 PM
Its still only the hull and deck no superstructure..........

Will take pics tomorrow in the test tank..............

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on April 10, 2009, 02:43:52 PM
As promised put the hull in the test tank,
not an abundance of room.....

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on April 10, 2009, 10:22:18 PM
I have a similiar yet slightly larger test tank you could have
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on April 15, 2009, 11:21:31 PM
Howz about the 'Pacific'  'Tasman '  'Indian ' these are 3 lots of water that come to mind in Australia that should be big enough!!...I'm only jealous, she looks great!!...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on April 20, 2009, 05:03:06 AM
G'day, just did the 4 turret frames, but just to be different I made the guns go up and down!!. For this you either have to disguard the 'blast bags', or make new 'flexible' ones that will allow for this. At this time, I am not fitting the bags, just found a photo on line from a German site that shows her with no bags, full Radar fitted, and moe importantly, Grey!!........Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 06, 2009, 11:03:45 PM
Looks like we're in dry dock for a refit, must all be down the pub!!. I'm just moving along quietly myself, trying to figure out where all the left over brass goes, doing a bit of air brushing, just more or less trying to clear my workload. The next 4 parts , the brass for the turrets shouldn't be far away.
I've also been into a German site, the parts up to 137 are shown....see you guys...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on May 10, 2009, 09:25:13 PM
looking good martin, whens the boat going to sail under her own power?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 13, 2009, 01:57:45 AM
G'day, just received issues 92-95, the brass overlays for the turrets. Does anybody know why the rear part for the turret '888' has two different pattern 'vents??. Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on May 14, 2009, 09:55:37 AM
Hi does anyone have some tips for lights on the Bismarck,
I also need a smokegenerator that fits in the chimney of the Bismarck
 :-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on May 14, 2009, 10:07:53 AM
I don't know of anybody who is lighting the model.

There is some discussion about smoke generators on my forum here http://buildthebismark.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=mods&action=display&thread=1416

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 27, 2009, 04:41:53 AM
On this day, 27th May 1941 at 10.39am Bismarck slides beneath the waves. Just thought I'd mention it!!.....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on May 27, 2009, 05:00:09 AM
Gone, but definitely not forgotten.

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tjilpi on May 28, 2009, 12:38:56 AM
Are we to assume that Martin has pulled the plug?
A tragedy if so but I must admit I have a pile of unopened parts that I'm going to get to when I get one of those round toit's
Oz
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 28, 2009, 12:41:08 AM
Just like the Titanic, their memory through fate will live on forever!!......Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: andyn on May 28, 2009, 12:51:56 AM
Are we to assume that Martin has pulled the plug?

I don't think he has, I was talking to him at the Mayhem weekend and he says he hasn't had time.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 28, 2009, 08:55:23 AM
No, like Captain Andy says, 'Time and tide wait for no man'...... or the wooden Bismarck build.
.... I'm letting the wood hull season... mature.... age!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on May 28, 2009, 12:15:06 PM

.... I'm letting the wood hull season... mature.... age!


or fossilize ?  ;D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 28, 2009, 01:32:14 PM
Come on Martin do some more mate it does get easier..............................................................................not {-) {-)


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: warspite on May 28, 2009, 02:10:33 PM

.... I'm letting the wood hull season... mature.... age!


or fossilize ?  ;D

I thought it was oil driven not coal ;)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 28, 2009, 02:53:44 PM
Blinking cheek!   What this form needs a higher class of clientèle .........   :P
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on May 30, 2009, 05:50:10 PM
wenn will you continou with your Bismarck martin?? :D
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 03, 2009, 09:17:01 PM
Not mine but...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Build-The-Bismarck-Magazine-issues-25-45-20-issues_W0QQitemZ110398195438QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item19b43ec6ee&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4|65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A200
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dougal99 on June 03, 2009, 09:21:10 PM
25-45 is 21 issues - so which one is missing?
Title: has anyone tried this?
Post by: modelman66 on June 04, 2009, 10:58:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tl0JdhWntU&feature=channel_page   I did but it wasnt very efficient only out of interest for a grin to see if it would work has anyone done this with a real model tug(tow yourself across the lake that is)??
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: nhp651 on June 04, 2009, 11:18:17 AM
you should 've used yer radio gear as a rudder with the areal as a tiller ????? lol {-) {-) {-) %% %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 04, 2009, 12:42:28 PM
Another one given up:  BUILD THE BISMARCK WOODEN MODEL BOAT (PART STARTED) - Starting bid:   £365.00

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=140324372089
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on June 05, 2009, 02:39:00 PM
a photo to show the guns elevated and a repositioned aft anchor...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on June 05, 2009, 02:49:40 PM
More photo's showing a painted and glazed cabin section prior to fitting..and yes, it does have curtains!! A finished turret for the now and a boxfull of painted parts...Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on June 08, 2009, 11:00:59 PM
If you take a blade or a similar sharp object and score lines on the hatches on the turret front, it makes them look as if they actually slide. I took a photo of the only turret I didn't do it on, obviously I forgot!. A small detail if you can be bothered....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on June 08, 2009, 11:24:30 PM
Formally requests permission to show off  %%

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk198/mwakelin/bissyvids/th_DSCN5296.jpg) (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk198/mwakelin/bissyvids/?action=view&current=DSCN5296.flv)

Here's how I did it :)

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/detail.htm#Turrets

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: chipchase on June 09, 2009, 12:33:08 AM
HI
Here’s a photo of the Bismarck build by a member of my local club FANTASTIC look at the detail. 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on June 19, 2009, 10:59:09 PM
Hi all.

In New Zealand we are up to Issue 60 and have just received the first deck part for the rear superstructure. Does anyone know the reason that we must varnish the deck? was the Deck on the Bismarck Varnish or shiny? Thanks guys.

Hilux5972
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 20, 2009, 05:11:15 AM
The varnish will be to seal the printed deck from smudging the ink when handling.
 The original would have been totally matt / dull surface, after hours and hours of sailors scrubbing the decks.

Title: Small guns
Post by: berth44 on June 21, 2009, 05:58:48 AM
These parts go together well...here's the result..
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 08, 2009, 06:44:14 PM
Want to build your own?

Issue 1-124  All unopened, with no damage. (140 to complete model)  can collect last 16 issues if you wish, but this half price offer is for 124!  - £362

Item number: 320395439680   

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Build-the-bismarck-hachette_W0QQitemZ320395439680QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN?hash=item4a990e6e40&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

(http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!BV9FeUQB2k~$(KGrHgoOKjoEjlLmErDsBKVJBmJz2w~~_1.JPG)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DEN on July 08, 2009, 07:47:29 PM
       
  HI Martin. In Russia, too, began to build Bismarck. It would be interesting and helpful to see your process of building more. Sincerely Den.  :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 08, 2009, 07:57:16 PM

My build has come to  a bit a grinding halt at the moment.  >:-o
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.0

1. The hull planking it incredibly sole destroying......
2. I took on a build for someone and wished I hadn't, what an awful kit... (no names, no pack drill!)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 09, 2009, 01:45:53 AM
 It's a shame Martin that you think that way, you being the 'admin guy', but you are entitled to your opinion and I do respect that. I would'nt say that the hull planking was sole destroying, monotonous/repetitive perhaps, but such is 'hull planking' , maybe we should have just received a big one piece hull and that would have saved the bother!!
Personally I found it was fun and I had a sense of acheivement once it was built.
 I'm now finding that having received the parts 101-103 which contain the main decking that I have made some mistakes in my method of building the hull, but I'm putting it right, I'm not rubishing the kit, my fault, I'v got to fix it, that's what it's about! This kit is not meant to be simple and straightforward. (even though some  would say it is, Amati advertisement springs to mind!!)
It's therefore a bigger challenge than it was meant to be for sure, some parts I'll admit are not very good, especially some of the plastic parts,but the brass parts are as good as any I've used in any kit, this is the 'upside'of the build. Unfortunately, (back to the plastic)  I've seen myself 're-making' some of these or just finding a way to 'improve' on them, "OK for you" you might say...but for the money we're paying, whether the part be plastic, brass, resin, wood, should all be 100%, all we should have to do is apply the part to the kit as per instructed.... and that's it!
Having to 'fix stuff??' ....well, let's face it, we are not all pro's, semi pro's,or just 'an ordinary (but good at it!!) builder' who have no problems whatsoever fixing these things, unfortunately, some will be beginners looking for a step into the 'big stuff club'  and unfortunately, some will fail misserably in their attempt I'm sorry to say, and all the 'bad stuff' that comes out of that goes straight back to the manufacturer!
So in summing up, I feal (personally) that it is a great product and the end result will indeed produce a very good model of the Bismarck, but it comes down to me as the builder to make it this way. On the negative side 'Amati' should have made it quite clear that this model 'will not suit beginners' they should have advertised it as 'For Competent Modellers Only", or maybe like the 'Plastic Kits' had a 'Skill Level', or maybe just been honest and said "This Kit may be difficult and trying at times, not suitable for beginners or modellers with a heart condition"........Good luck to you all.........Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DEN on July 09, 2009, 07:51:07 AM
I understand that you have encountered an error and the construction stopped. Do not despair. We have 1 magazine is not cheap. Some people build Bismarck, using available materials and details scanned from magazines. It is not worse. Very helpful discussions with experienced Model in the forums
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 09, 2009, 05:59:21 PM

Ah, just to clarify....

1. I do think the double layer planking is sole destroying but I didn't say I didn't enjoy doing it!
    Actually I found it very satisfying... but only once it was completed!   " Damn those short planks!    >:-o
   I've got all the sanding to do now to get into shape.

2. I really want to make a start on the brass upper works but this kit I'm building for someone is really "doing me 'ead din!"  <:(


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on July 09, 2009, 08:10:38 PM
Just to clarify ? The kit you're doing for somebody else, which is "doin' your 'ed in !" is not the Bismarck, but another kit ? 

Or is it the Bismarck ???

Yours faithfully,
Confused of Surrey  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 09, 2009, 11:11:50 PM

 A Graupner Pegasus  :(( :(( :(( <:( <:( <:( %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 10, 2009, 12:29:32 AM
Sounds like a disease!!!.....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: stefan12 on July 10, 2009, 09:35:47 AM
hello evryone i live in holland  :} im am now on part 45   :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on July 10, 2009, 04:45:09 PM
hello stefan from holland I`am kelvin from holland nice to meet you.
I will be at number 45 of the bismarck 28 july.

if you don`t know me klick this link

 http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/marineschepen/76106-kelvin-maakt-de-bismarck-van-hachette.html

(it is a dutch modelbuilding forum) :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jacques on July 10, 2009, 06:05:20 PM
Hello all,

In Quebec we started getting the Bismarrk last october and we are at issue 40, but I'm still at issue 23 !
It's my first time building something and I guess it's pretty good for now but I'm wondering if anyone has posted pictures of how it is supposed to look (like a step by step for each issue).
It would really help because now I'm suppose to glue a "white thing" (sorry I'm french and don't know how it's called in english), it doesn't seem to be a correct fit and maybe it fixes itself during the second planking.
Anyway seeing close up pictures would help a lot.
Thanks
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 10, 2009, 11:31:17 PM
Bonjour Jacque,

Je m'appelle Robert de Ontario, mais je suis habite en Angleterre maintnon. Please forgive my bad Quebecois, its been a few years, pm me for a good link for your build concerns.

Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 12, 2009, 10:35:51 PM
"Well hello rer Chinas'' (traditional Scottish Greeting for our 'Foreign' friends) May I suggest 'Jacques' that you try 'Build The Bismarck UK' , it's a chap called Mark, he's got the very build for you, in pictures so you can follow each week, give it a go.....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jacques on July 13, 2009, 05:59:18 PM
Found it, thanks  :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 13, 2009, 10:54:35 PM
What do you think Jacques, will this help you??. Anything else, just put it on line, someone here on the Forum will help you for sure, that's why we're here, to help each other as best we can...Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on July 14, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
whahaha alright already finished until 45 Bismarck

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=15180.0

have fun building your boat.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

where on earth is the birth rate the lowest????

at the elderly home %) {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jacques on July 14, 2009, 05:27:37 PM
Yes it will help me a lot, in fact I already saw interesting things on the forum itself.  :-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 14, 2009, 10:41:18 PM
That's good Jacques, obviously you've been into the' links' section, there's heaps there, a 'future' German site showing ALL the parts up to 'the end'of the model, and there's heaps of good stuff on the REAL Bismarck,. plus many other things of interest, and better still (cough cough!!)there's a few photo's on the site showing' my build' of the frame and hull planking...Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jacques on July 15, 2009, 06:05:39 PM
I am now at the point where I'm supposed to glue the deck (not doing the RC version) and the resin parts to the hull. I'm thinking of waiting until I finish the second layer of planks before doing it. Is it a good idea or I'm I creating more issues. I think it would be easier.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 16, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
Hello Jacques, now, this is what modelling is all about, if you think it's a way better way to do,  do it!!!   I do things different as well, I don't think I followed the instructions on how to plank the thing, especially after the first lot were in place, I even used 'lollypop sticks' for some of the second lot!
I'm really not sure how I went about it, seems ages ago since I did the hull. I know that there are faults in the resin parts and these have been documented through the Forum. I take it you have the (what is known as) 'the correct' new stern part??, it has the 'anchor pocket' at the 'correct' angle, but is infact still wrong. Whether you decide to fit these parts on now, or later, is definitely up to you! What I did (I think) was to go ahead with the second lot and the decks (not radio control!) then fix all the amended resin parts later. Filler would be used to fix any problems later (always good to do 'Dry runs' to see how far out you are if 'deviating' from the instructions!!))
The stern is where most of my alterations were done (the bow received a fair bit as well!!) and what I'm stating here could infact be described as butchery!! The instructions have you adding (as part of the second planking), the 'ply' porthole sections, I fitted them, but in hindsight I shouldn't have as all the portholes were wrong,(the bow porthole 'ply' section as well has problems!!) this is'nt just because I altered the stern, they just were anyway!!
 I have completely altered the anchor pocket position to be 'as in' the correct position visually (to me) as per all the photographs that I have seen of the stern.( A photo is on this Forum somewhere, you can judge for youself!!)I did this by 'cutting out' the socket from an 'old' stern part, drilling and cutting out the pocket from the 'new' one, marking off what I think is correct in relation to the hight from the deck and also it's relation to the aft portholes (when corrected),just a case of slotting in the 'new' anchor pcket (it was like fitting a minature swimming pool!!), bit of filling and you would'nt know it had been moved!!
Doing it my way meant the utmost rear part of the stern had to be altered by quartering it to alter it's shape to follow the lines of the stern and the complete omission of the 'spacer' that was attached to it!!
So, as you can see,it's a lot os work, but in the end, it's up to you, you alone will decide on what is the best way, what I did was a lot of work, but it was what I wanted to do, so I say to you Jacques, go for it, if it does'nt work out, well, I'm sure you can fix it!!...Dave

P/s with the alterations to the stern, the supplied laser decking that comes later still fits perfectly!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jacques on July 16, 2009, 01:06:48 PM
You're right, I'll follow my guts !
I did see about issues you had with the resin parts not being OK, but up until now everything looks fine here and I'm going through this forum to compare with what we received until now.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 16, 2009, 11:43:27 PM
Go for it Jacques, I'm sure all will be fine. Good idea going through the Forum, it will help you in your quest for sure!......Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on August 06, 2009, 12:24:16 AM
Hi Guys.

In NZ we are upto 67 this week. This forum has been great for tips. Martin, any idea when your build will begin again? Great fun these partworks. Well most of them. Flying Scotsman not going so well but im not gonna Hijack the thread lol. <*<

Ryan
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 06, 2009, 08:11:03 AM
Don't tell me there's planking on the Flying Scotsman too!!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on August 07, 2009, 07:16:09 AM
Haha no worse luck. Parts are not fitting together well and are inferior to what was advertised!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 07, 2009, 09:02:15 AM
heard the Flying Scotsman was indeed pretty bad, glad I didn't buy into it, mind you I wanted to, but I thought the Bismarck would do as far as 'built its wére concerned!!...Dave.

P/S Martin, you would find planking on the Flying Scotsman,most steam locos had a wooden cab floor!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: derekwarner on August 10, 2009, 04:19:52 AM
Hi Martin.......I am sure it must be an optical illusion....... :embarrassed: ...but the bilge keel in pict6282 appears near straight or reversed........ %%....Derek

Just checked the same build by Kevin in Holland ...& the same illusion is depicted :(( >>:-(  <*<...and yes..... only on the same port side
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: andyn on August 10, 2009, 02:59:21 PM
It's just the angle you're seeing it from, look at the one on the opposite side.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Raymondo on August 10, 2009, 04:00:11 PM
Dear all just signed up having read your comments have been building the Delprado Victory for near on 8Years just starting the rigging and now am upto part 50 on Hatchettes Build the Bismark. Am meeting several trumours along the way!!! Have been building the Bismark now for about 6 months.  
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 10, 2009, 04:28:27 PM
I've been NOT building mine for at Least 6 months!  <:(

The builge does look wrong from elever angle... except one.... from the bow.... along the water flow line!

I'll take a couple more photos of the bilge keel tonight.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 11, 2009, 12:17:31 AM
Tacked on the printed deck with tacks between the évergreen'angle at the edge (about 1.5 mm) of the hull. The handrail stancheons will be fitted to this...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 11, 2009, 12:28:11 AM
To get the decks to fit between the angles I had to sand off the extreme plank of eack deck part, but not beyond the 'keyed' planks. The bow shape proved to be wrong so I removed the
'pointy bit' deck piece and sanded the bow down a wee bit, made a new deck piece and even after that I had to make a small alteration of the printed deck piece so that it was a perfect fit to the 'new' bow shape.., the first photo shows the 'cut' , the second (although duplicted) shows the end result... Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Raymondo on August 11, 2009, 11:41:11 AM
How did those of you who used the 2nd plastic stern part overcome the difference in size that is the depth from front to back. I added a 7-8mm piece of wood so the deck part lined up with the back. Sanding the plastic bit would have obliterated the anchor hole. Just hope the deck parts will now fit!!!!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 11, 2009, 03:00:35 PM
Hello Remondo,first up, thanks for the mail! It seems a long time now since I did the stern part, what I did was,(I think!!) the rearmost top part was cut into quarters so I could 'jiggle it' to fit the width and length of the revised stern once it was fixed. It was sort of repaired with bits off the frets, but I wasn't out to make a perfect repair as this was going to be covered at a later time with the printed deck part anyway.
If you look at the 'real' Bismarck you'll see that even the new resin part still has the anchor wrong, it is much closer to the deck and the bottom of it is nearly touching the last of top portholes. To fix that, the 'spacer' that you are supposed to fit under the rearmost deck part, well, I personally disguarded that. (even with such a drastic change the aft resin part still fitted the shape of the stern pretty good and I had very little filling to do on its bottom and sides to get the thing flush with the planking!!)
Having still retained the old stern part, I carefully cut out the whole anchor pocket (it resembled a miniature swimming pool!!) When the aft portholes were eventually all in their correct position, I marked out the position of the 'new' anchor pocket in relation to that top last porthole and it's position to the deck, as per the photo I had of the 'real McCoy' When I was satisfied that I had it right, I drilled and shaped out the new hole for the 'swimming pool' Once that was  superglued in position, it was filled with 'Tamiya' putty, sanded when dry and "walla!" , a new repositioned anchor pocket, just a bit better positioned than the Amati one, well I thought so!! If you look at the last lot of photo's I submitted , in the stern shot, you can see how much the anchor was moved by the white mark to the right of it!!
To sum up, it was a while ago and unfortunately I didn't take any photo's, it's not a job for the faint hearted to try!!, but in my mind it was well worth the effort, so why not?, it didn't cost me anything and it looks more correct!.....Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 12, 2009, 01:36:34 AM
Hello again Remondo,(and all) well, I said it was a while, so I have to make amends and say I did 2 cuts of the stern piece and moved it forward, here's some pictures that may explane things a wee bit better...I've also taken a photo of the stern of the 'real' Bismarck and one with my modification. Much easier than words to explane!!...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 12, 2009, 01:54:50 AM
Remondo, (and and) while I had camera in hand, I'll post some of the bow, minus it's printed decking. The top front piece is the remade part, that has been cut to fit and as you can see by the filling on the bow a lot of work has been done there as well...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on August 12, 2009, 04:01:37 AM
Hi all

This is a question for Berth44. Ive noticd on the deck of your Bismarck that there seems to be a raised lip running the entire way around the ship. Just wondering what its for? And also what issue it comes with. Cheers

Hilux
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 12, 2009, 07:03:46 AM
Hello Hilux5972, the 'white line' that you see running round the ship is an idea of mine and does not come with any issue!! This is meant to represent the ángle' that's on the 'real' Bismarck at the decks edge onto which the handrail stancheons are fixed to.(The angle's back is to the edge)
 The material used is 'evergreen' angle, it's 1.5mm x 355mm long, 4 per packet, 2 packets did the job, one left over! (it'll come in handy)
For this to fit, each deck part is carefully sanded back to the 'keyed' planking, (or what is required per section for a good fit!) There is also approx 1.5 mm from the angle to the edge of the hull, this has a slope not unlike the Armour Belt...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Raymondo on August 12, 2009, 12:12:09 PM
Dave, thanks for the reply it looks as though I've done the rear end similar to yours. The pictures have really helped. Around the top edge of the bow I fitted the supplied solid ply bits with the portholes in and the little bits that had to be tapered. When glued on I have filled the gap in on the top edge, this leaves a sloping angle and not a horizontal edge will try and get some pictures on. Is this sloping edge going to be OK or will I need to make some minor or major adjustments before I start the spray job, this Will be a first!!!!! Spent another 3 hours on it last night seems to be coming on OK so far.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on August 13, 2009, 01:20:56 AM
Hey Remondo, sounds like you are making progress. I used the Ply as well.(on the stern as well) Looking at my model, most of the the top row of portholes are wrong and were filled in and moved.(as per the stern) The top edge of the bow is infact sloped, it shouldn't be curved, Just imagine a straight line between the corners of a 1.5 mm square, that in my mind would be perfect and not look too much out of scale, that's roughly what I tried to achieve, doesn't look that far out on the model, the total effect should be seen when the final paint job is applied....Dave.

P/S, if you need to fill in Portholes, use either toothpics, skewers, or stretched sprue, pushing them in point first until they are a tight fit then snipped to size. I always add a bit of superglue. When it is done this way, you can redrill the hole at any point without the 'filling' falling out on you, if you get my drift? I use filler to 'tidy up' if need be.....
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on August 13, 2009, 01:48:29 AM
Thanks for that Berth44. Im thinking of looking into something along those lines 2. Im assuming its available from hardware/diy stores? Cheers
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rsm on August 19, 2009, 01:24:57 PM
Anybody wanting some nice turned metal barrels for their Bismarck might like to try these guys in Poland: http://www.gpm.pl/eng/index.php?akcja=produkt&edycja=101

I bought a set for mine, they are good quality and cheap.  They are intended for a 1/200 scale card model. I also bought a set for my 1/200 Nichimo Yamato and my 1/400 Heller Prinz Eugen and HMS Illustrious, again they are intended for card models but work just fine on plastic kits.

Roger.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on August 20, 2009, 12:20:40 AM
I thought that the magazine  came with turned metal barrels for the guns.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rsm on August 20, 2009, 09:04:08 AM
The  main guns (and the secondaries) have the breach end and blast bags moulded in one piece of plastic and the muzzle end is a piece of aluminium tube that slots into this, turned metal ones look a lot better.

Roger.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Raymondo on September 16, 2009, 11:57:57 AM
Just thought I ought to sign in. have been busy on deck bits and brass. Dave hows your Bismark coming on? I'm just about to brave doing my first spray job on the hull using aerosols should be fun!!! Also have now started the Lancaster Bomber. Not enough hours in the day. Anyone else invested in this?

Best Wishes Ray
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on September 17, 2009, 12:10:15 AM
Hello Raymondo, all stop on the Bismarck for the time being, getting over a stroke!!. Is the Lancaster bomber another part work??. Good luck with the spraying, remember just light passes and allow to dry before next coat, you'll get a better finish, you don't want to keep your finger on the button, if you do (it's called impatience)you are more than likely to get runs and most importantly, loss of fine detail, just be patient.....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on September 17, 2009, 12:39:19 AM
The Lancaster is Hachette's latest offering.... looks pretty good too.

Before anybody asks... yes I am - I'm a sucker for these partworks.......

www.lancaster.partworkmodels.co.uk if anybody is interested.

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 17, 2009, 09:02:54 AM
It looks like some people dream's for a HMS Hood partwork is on the way, have a read at the admin post on this web site

http://forum.model-space.co.uk/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on September 24, 2009, 02:05:13 AM
That would be so Fantastic! Be great if they do it in 1:200 scale so it can sit alongside the Bismarck so we can see these two Leviathans together again in peacetime. Heres hoping
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Allen on September 24, 2009, 08:46:42 AM
Hi everyone, my name is Allen and I am new to the forum.  You've got to love this site.  I have been building models for years, mostly period sailing ships.  I am currently working on a scratch build of a Tasmanian Trading Ketch.  The original was built in 1870 in the town  where I live in Southern Tasmania, Australia.

I have stockpiled Bismark issues up to 112, but would like to ask what the result of the discussions relating to the inaccuracies were? I look forward to starting the build, but would like to know that I am as accurate as possible.
Hope to talk soon.  Cheers, Allen
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 24, 2009, 02:39:26 PM
It's been reported that the Hachett hull is not all that accurate.....
If you really want to 'go to town',  you'll need a set or plans.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Down below on September 25, 2009, 08:10:06 AM
Latest info in mag 135 http://www.bismarckpainting.co.uk/

Jeez what  atask on a finished model  %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on October 01, 2009, 01:22:36 AM
Thanks for that Down Below. Very helpful. Was wondering how i was going to paint the superstructure. Fantastically Helpful. Thanks for the link. :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on October 14, 2009, 08:23:10 AM
I have a customer in New Zealand who wants to buy the whole installation from the UK, and he would like us to obtain the Speed 400 motors, Graupner gearboxes, shafts and props for him, along with the ACTion electrickery. The problem is that I don't know the details of the shafts and props. Can anyone provide me with the following info so that I can grab the requisite bits at the Blackpool Show this weekend?
Shaft/tube length; diameter and thread
Prop diameter, no of blades.
He would like to install the two-motor option and definitely prefers gearboxes.
Thanks in anticipation, guys.
FLJ
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 14, 2009, 11:00:38 AM

I've got my running gear from Marus (nice bloke in Germany) down stairs in me dungeon workshop,  I'll measure it up for you later but
I know it's got Graupner 2mm prop shafts........ personally, I wouldn't recommend gearboxes, straight drive with Speed400 7.2v will
be more than enough and a lot quieter too.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 14, 2009, 06:24:27 PM
Shafts are 100mm long.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on October 14, 2009, 08:24:11 PM
Thanks a lot, Martin. I'll pass on the suggestion ref direct drive and see what the man says.
FLJ
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mickyrubble on October 19, 2009, 05:31:31 PM
Hi Martin ,
 its been quite a while since you posted anything on your Bismarck build (which i really enjoyed reading),how is your build progressing. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 26, 2009, 10:57:48 AM
Still alive (only just) just getting back into the build, albeit slowly, so here's a few photo's, first up...the props....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 26, 2009, 11:18:25 AM
In issue 115 you get 3 different pieces of wood to make up two vents. I saw these made out of card, so I looked around my box of goodies and came up with a used 'ply' fret, 1mm thick, a length of brass 4mm wide X 1mm, and a bit of 'Plasticard"1.5mm Sq., here is the finished result, more work, but I think it looks more realistic???....
I tagged on two more photo's at the end showing how I secured the prop wings to the hull. It didn't quite fit and was a bit wobbly so I secured the prop end first with superglue leaving it overnight to really get to grips, then all I did was drill through the other end into the hull, then inserting the toothpick with glue added to the pointy end and the thing pushed home. This holds it firmly in place (like a nail) and more glue added all round. When all is set, the whole thing has filler added to make it 'part of the hull' as per the instructions...Dave.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on October 26, 2009, 07:44:58 PM
hello Bismarck builders.

I`am making nice progress with mine bismarck but I have got an problem wich I can`t solve with my knowledge.

the hull is not very nice and I want to make it like it is in one shape.

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/PICT0293.jpg)

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/PICT0295.jpg)

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/PICT0296.jpg)

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/PICT0297.jpg)

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/PICT0298.jpg)



if somebody has tips to make the hull nice smooth. I would be very happy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on October 26, 2009, 09:30:54 PM
Hi Kevin,

It's not too difficult to get a smooth hull.  You need a flat block of wood and some sand paper.  Wrap the sandpaper round the block and get sanding.  I'd start with 80 grit to get the paint, the excess glue, and the worst of the roughness off.

The block of wood is important as it keeps the hull flat.  If you just sand with fingers you will end up with finger sized undulations.  You'll have to use the sandpaper by hand for the concave (inwards) curves.  Just go careful and change the direction of sanding frequently.

Once you've got it fairly smooth, fill in any gaps and hollows with some car body filler, trying not to leave too much excess, and then start sanding with a finer sandpaper, say 120 grit.  Then fill any small holes again, and try even finer paper.  Finish off with, say 400 grit or finer.

The first sanding will be a pain as you have to get the paint off first.

The good news is that as you get better at planking you have less sanding to do  :}
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 26, 2009, 10:28:50 PM
Marks gave you good advice there Kelvin, you'll need to get that paint off (filler??) completely, get it sanded right down to the bare wood. As he says you'll need to use a filler, I used  'Tamiya'' filler but that could be expensive as it comes in small tubes,(it still goes a ling way, it's quick drying and easy to work with) car stuff may indeed be the way and it should be cheaper. Just remember the golden rule, apply it thinly, once it's dry, sand it down. Do this as many times as necessary unti it starts to get smoother and smoother. Once you've got the real roughness off it,and it's starting to look good, smooth, just like metal!, there is a car primer that also has filler incorporated into the spray can, use this lightly to fill up small gaps/cracks that are still around. Polyfilla also do stuff in a yellow tube, called 'finishing' off, this really smooths it down before painting, and also remember for best results with the undercoating and final painting is to use spray cans, or if you have an air brush, use that. Always make light passes, let it dry, do another. If you still have cracks and unevenness, sand it, just keep doing it Kelvin, it'll come out far better than you ever expected, and you may even praise yourself, there is no hurry, you are not in a race, time my friend is on your side...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on October 27, 2009, 09:46:24 AM
thank you now I think I know what tot do.
 In thefuture I will show you pictures of wath it became
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 27, 2009, 12:41:41 PM
look forward to that Kelvin, happy sanding!!..Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 29, 2009, 11:53:51 AM
Just finished the Ádmiral's Bridge and I must admit I found it a bit trying, anybody with no patience, easily frustrated and big fingers is going to go a bit bonkers with this one! Still, it all goes together pretty well, just got to take your time and follow the instructions, no other way really. The only mods that I did was to glaze the windows, I also put a wooden floor on the inside and some extra detail, but you can't really see in. Because it's glazed I opted to brush paint it, I just finished it off with my 'burnishing brush', makes it sort of weathered looking, I'm quite happy with the result, but I still can't take a good photo!!....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on October 29, 2009, 09:37:45 PM
It might be fiddly Dave, but you've made a good job of it.  I still have that pleasure to look forward to  {:-{
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 29, 2009, 09:52:34 PM
Thanks Mark, always nice to get a positive comment! Think I'll go for the aircraft hangers next, they look like fun!!........Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on October 30, 2009, 12:02:34 PM
Back in issue 109 I had one of the boats missing, I contacted the newsagent and they passed it on to
Gordon and Gotch the local distributors, there reply was I would have to repurchase the issue, so I sent
an email to Amati who contacted Hatchetts and they sent me an email saying a new issue was being
sent from England free, so thank you to Amati and Hatchetts, Gordon and Gotch are b*******s........
Fortunately there is still some customer service around, thak you again................

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on October 30, 2009, 12:14:22 PM
Pay for it??, that's a joke!! Glad you got it resolved. In my issue 115, there was nothing wrong with the parts, the issue itself was "xxxxx"!!, the photo's and printing were all over the place, so I phoned the suppliers, Bisset Mags, and as usual were very helpful and told me that it will be replaced as soon as possible..I actually read it!!...Dave
Title: Re: Kelvin builds the Bismarck
Post by: jack123 on November 12, 2009, 04:01:45 PM
Well finaly after many centuries of waiting they have token of the money from my bankaccount
now lets hope that the engines will get here faster ;D

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/Bismarck/PICT1256.jpg)


Hi, My name is Jack. I have a question for you. I'm building the Bismarck myself and I was wondering if the engine comes with the magazine o you have to buy it apart from it. If so, how can I buy it? How much is it?
Title: Re: Kelvin builds the Bismarck
Post by: Martin [Admin] on November 12, 2009, 05:41:23 PM

The motor set is an option, you would have thought at the cover price (Total = £687.12 ) you would have though they would have included, motors, speed controller, radio and a lake!  ok2

The offered set uses gearbox drive, which I don't like: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2830.msg51972#msg51972 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2830.msg51972#msg51972)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on November 30, 2009, 01:56:02 PM
I've just started to work on the two 'house like' aircraft hangers in issue 105. The support brackets, parts 998/90/1002/4 were just way 'too wee' for me, even with my 'binoculars' on I had no hope and gave up on them.
So I had to find a solution and a 'Plasticard' strip of the right thickness just happened to be at hand. A touch of 'superglue' was applied and the srtip pressed home into the slot in the roof. This was done for them all and the strip was trimmed to the right shape and the catwalks fitted in place. I have supplied a photo that should explain this procedure. So if you're like me with failing eyesight and big fingers, it's an idea....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 01, 2009, 01:04:10 PM
I suppose the next logical step would be to finish the hangers, this I have done, here are the photo's...Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 01, 2009, 01:07:27 PM
OOPS, pressed wrong button, maybe this time!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: duttydozen on December 01, 2009, 11:04:07 PM
coming along nicely there Dave but be warned you need to sand/file 2 mil from the inner walls of the hangars or they won't fit between the funnel and the guard rails.
I'm finishing mine at the weekend
At last.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 01, 2009, 11:13:20 PM
Welcome to the forum, duttydozen.

How about some photos of your build, I'm sure others would love to see how you have progressed.

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: duttydozen on December 01, 2009, 11:31:08 PM
(http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz107/achillesf12/100_0646.jpg)
(http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz107/achillesf12/100_0642.jpg)
(http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz107/achillesf12/100_0638.jpg)
These are a few days old,i'll put an up to date pic up tomorrow as my camera needs batteries.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 02, 2009, 04:49:24 AM
Well done Peter, looks great, terrific paint job, and aint you lucky son of a gun, nearly done as well!!   What's to go, rigging and railings??? Thanks about mentioning the fact I've to take 2mm off the inner wall of the hanger (both of them???)
At this stage I'm afraid of damage, but if it wont fit, what choice do I have???......Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 02, 2009, 05:11:56 AM
Thought I'd try a see if I can improve the blast bags of the main guns. Here's my first effort, totally an experiment using 'wood glue' with a bit of fingernail art to create 'çreases' The 'bumfled up' appearance where the barrel enters the turrets was purely an accident!! The barrel is so tight in the turret, I can't get it out, nearly pulled the whole frront off, hence the gap!!. Here are some photo's................Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on December 02, 2009, 08:26:45 AM
Nice one Dave.  Looks much better than the original.  Can you give us some more detailsof how you did it.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 02, 2009, 10:38:11 PM
No worries Mark, thanks for the positive comment, only too glad to pass it on!! Using my 'normal' craft glue, (this small bottle has a nozzle attached) all I did was to spread it all over the 'moulded' bag, not too thickly as I would imagine it'll run! I applied a pretty even thin layer, turning the barrel with my fingers and 'blowing' on it to keep it Even' (I even placed it in the chuck of my drill and spun it round!!) Seeing as it was pretty warm, I let the barrel hang in the chuck of the drill in the sun until it became clear and non tacky.
It was then worked into the turret, (make sure the thing fits first, you may require either a wee bit slimming of the plastic part, or widening of the turret front, but you don't want it 'slack!!') this has the effect of pushing the glue forward to form that sort of 'bum fled' look! (accidental discovery!!) As the glue is hard, but still 'soft', using my thumbnail I formed the creases that are apparent in the photo. I suppose if you wanted more pronounced creases, you could add another coat of glue (??)
Anyway, I'm happy with the result, I've managed to get the barrel out the turret, I'm happy with that one, just need to clean up the back before I inserted it for good!, now for the other 7, just got to make up something to hold them all when they are drying!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on December 02, 2009, 10:47:48 PM
Thanks Dave, it certainly looks the biz.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 04, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
Left them in the sun too long Mark and the glue went hard...oops!!! Applied some more and worked on them just as they turned clear. Done a wee modification, took about 1/4 inch of the glue off the rear of the barrel, then worked it forward to the part where it fits into the turret front, doing this reduces the size of the 'bumfle'....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: duttydozen on December 05, 2009, 02:42:21 PM
FINIIIIISHED.
I enjoyed that.
Cheers for the welcome,by the way,Peter.
(http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz107/achillesf12/100_0684.jpg)
(http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz107/achillesf12/100_0680.jpg)
I must admit i almost 'lost it'once or twice but i'm glad i stuck with it.
 

Gary
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on December 05, 2009, 09:27:00 PM
Cheers for the welcome,by the way,Peter.

My pleasure, it's good to have you aboard. Nice job of Bismarck, too.

What's that other one on the wall shelf?

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on December 20, 2009, 11:46:28 PM
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on December 21, 2009, 09:19:32 PM
Merry Christmas everybody,

May your stocking be full of models !

Best wishes
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on December 22, 2009, 11:32:26 AM
In a desperate attempt to put Martin to shame I've managed to continue with my build and updated my web site !

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/modelframe.htm
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: reefrich on January 04, 2010, 10:59:58 AM
Love the detail, you have created!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Wasyl on January 21, 2010, 12:21:35 AM
I have to applaud all of you,who built this Bismarck,its my favourite ship,..i too have now got one,but i took the easy road to get it,I bought one off ebay,as this was the only way i,d ever get one,as i can,t build,..she will sit nicely with my recently purchased 1/200 Prinz Eugen,

Well done

Wullie
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dano48 on January 21, 2010, 10:24:07 AM
Greetings, and a Happy New Year !! to all, I'm Richard, I have been following this forum for some time now , and would like to thank every body involved in this build it has given me a much needed heads up on the construction of the model :-)), I have just received issue 131, although I have not started to build it yet due to to many other projects :}, this is my first model, hopefully won't be my last ;),I am waiting to get the lot,  then I will start on the remote controlled model, I would like to ask a couple of 4 questions mainly directed at Dave (berth44), or other Aussies, I live in Brisbane, and would like to know,
1) if the paint codes referred to in the magazine are ready available in Australia,
2) and they mention for the R/C model polyurethane paint for the hull, can you get that in model paints?, if not, what similar colour?
3)what sort of water proof wood glue did you use,
4)two part filler? 
If you'd be kind enough to give me some brand names, I will source them out,
Keep up the good work,
Kind regards, Richard
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 21, 2010, 10:38:11 PM
Hi Richard, and welcome to the forum from me, here in little old Lennox Head, in cockroach country  O0 Just an outlying suburb of Brisbane really, it's only 2 hours drive away  {-)

Hopefully some other Aussie members (berth44?) will be able to answer your questions. Concerning glue, I normally use cyano such as Zap, for most woodwork, but occasionally use Selley's Aquadhere exterior grade PVA, which has given good results. I also use Araldite in high stress situations. The secret is to thoroughly waterproof the hull after construction, if it is completely waterproof it doesn't really matter which glue you use, in my opinion.

Are you a member of a club, or are you flying solo?

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dano48 on January 22, 2010, 08:36:10 AM
Hi Peter, thanks for your reply , cockroach country?, I think some got away from your town mate {-), I am sailing solo, I have seen some models from the Logan club and I have spoken to members , but as yet do not belong to any club, between work and my other hobbies, I don't really have the time to join, can't wait for retirement O0, regarding the glues I always thought that cyano(super glue?), was more for non porous surfaces, I know that there are some thicker than others but I thought there are better ones for wood, By waterproofing the hull do you mean paint? or fibreglass, then paint?,or some other type?
Cheers, Richard.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 22, 2010, 09:16:19 AM
Hi Richard,
 Welcome to the forum a, welcome to your Bismarck build..... "You vill do as you are told!"
  (Is that still in bad taste these days?!)

1) if the paint codes referred to in the magazine are ready available in Australia,
    Depending what type of paint you want to use (car spray, modeling (Tamiya etc.) enamels (tinlets), house paint, use
    whatever looks closest to the colour in the magazine!

2) and they mention for the R/C model polyurethane paint for the hull, can you get that in model paints?, if not, what similar colour?
    As above, choose how you are going to finish you hull first, (sanding sealer, resin, sealant, epoxy) and then  decide how
    you want to paint that.

3)what sort of water proof wood glue did you use,
    Evo-stick watherproof wood adhesive & Unibond Exterior.

4)two part filler?  
   Car body filler Isopon P38 etc.

Have you seen my "build"? - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg39250#msg39250
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dano48 on January 22, 2010, 09:57:32 AM
Ya vol my Commandant {-), Tanks Martin, you did welcome me before, :-)) a couple of years ago I think, yes I have been following your built, that's what got me started in the forum from google , and I like your sense of humor {-), and then you stopped, >>:-(,  :} I do want to use the model paints, maybe some one can recommend the best way to finish the hull, before painting, some of the brand names you mention, I don't know if I will find them here, that's why I ask  for some Aussie feedback, they will be easier to source, sorry if I am being a pain but I am new to boat modeling and want to do it right first time, thanks again,
Cheers, Richard.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on January 22, 2010, 11:39:58 AM

I'm planning to sand my hull to shape and paint with umteen coats of sanding sealer.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: steamboatbob on January 28, 2010, 01:58:42 PM
hi richard

from another aussie to another

the superglues i use are
UHU Super (very thick for large brass bits ) from Officeworks
Zap (thin for the fine brass bits) from most hobby stores
Waterproof PVA
Titebond 3 Ultimate
All the major hull framework i used Araldite 24hr
and will be finishing it off in epoxy resin (fibreglass resin does the same job)
and ill try to dig up a paint chart for youi know i have one somewhare in this stupid computer it tells you the best matching paints from different hobby brands to the RAL Number

and the two part filler i just used car body filler and used a very small amount of hardener

PM me if you run into probs 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dano48 on January 29, 2010, 01:29:47 PM
Thanks Steamboatbob,  :-)) that gives me a very usefull reference where to start, I still have a couple of months before I get the last parts of it, I will get all the goodies ready, the only thing I'm not sure is how to use the epoxy resin or fiberglass, but I have some time to go before I get to that stage, so I'll do my home work with google and see what happens, thanks Mate :} , Richard.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: steamboatbob on January 29, 2010, 10:44:33 PM
I for one will be starting once I have all the parts sent out to me then im not waiting on next months supply to keep me interested :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dano48 on January 30, 2010, 06:34:01 AM
Yeah, that's what I'm waiting for  :} , regarding your paint colour chart, I found this on the net, http://www.paint4models.com/paintchart/paintconversionchart20100101.html#, is a reference to different brands and their equivalents, very impressive I thought,  :-))
Title: Re: Photos on the Forum & Resizing
Post by: WillemNdeJong on February 26, 2010, 01:05:35 PM
Dear Martin,

My name is Willem de Jong, I live in Haarlem (Holland) and as a former Dutch Navy man I am building the Dutch cruiser Hr.Ms. DeRuyter C801 from original drawings. As I have no routine in modelbuilding I took the opportunity to build the Bismarck first to learn from it. In this respect I enthusiastically followed your whereabouts  the Bismarck. But than it was necessary to join the forum to see the images going along with the building. Being a complete dummy with computer things I lost it. Could you please tell me what to do to follow your building again. I would very much appreciate that.
Thanking you in advance for your answer,

Kind regards,
Willem
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on February 26, 2010, 03:55:23 PM

 I hope to get going with the Bismarck again later this year... I took on a Graupner
Pegasus build for some and have regretted every minute I spent of it.  >:-o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: bubbles on March 09, 2010, 05:30:16 PM
yes £4.99 per mag and theres 147 issues i've started it got about 40 issues left to go.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jedonic on March 27, 2010, 08:38:45 AM
I have been reading with intrest all the comments about the Bismark model, well I guess I may be fortunate as I am up to issue 138 "and all is well"  no shortages or wrong parts and all bits have fitted perfactly, painting has been completed and all that is left is the final assembly.  So don"t be disharted to much it will work out ok, my only negative comment there are a resonable amount of etched brass parts left over that ane not placed on the model, I can"see the reason for that, but so far so good.
I am in Australia and have had no trouble with the issues all have been on time and complete. Ian.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 27, 2010, 06:52:40 PM

 Well done sir! Any photos?

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jedonic on March 29, 2010, 07:39:23 AM
Just received issue 137 of the Bismark and all is well everything fits no shortages etc looking great
Jedonic
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Skidmarks on April 02, 2010, 03:30:36 PM
Have painted hull with a Humbol 'primer 1' grey acrylic aerosol spray and just finished the main mast but feel that to use an aerosol on that will not give a sufficiently fine spray for such an intricate part and no doubt lots more the same!?. So, have lashed out on an airbrush but cannot get a 'primer 1' in the Humbrol 12ml range, just a #64.  Seems to me I will be using lots of 12ml tins so do you know of a UK suppleire of larger than 12ml tins of acrylic paint please?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: taffy52 on April 11, 2010, 02:24:47 PM
Hi the robbe sub build has brrn put on the back burner, picked up the hatchette bismarck all 140 issues plus partly built boat, glues, paint etc for £40 did have to do a 300 mile round trip to collect but still worth it,good old ebay,may have to repaint some parts but planking all done and super structure done too,
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 11, 2010, 03:51:59 PM
£40????  %)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Dave stone on April 27, 2010, 01:56:31 AM
Hello all.
 I have been lurking in the background here for some time and have been working on my own build of the Bismarck.

I have a few questions on the R/C end of things.

I have decided not to get the R/C kit that comes at added cost with this model and intend to get this gear myself.

The Question I have is what would you recommend and since it is not the R/C gear that comes with the Model what modifications will I need to do to fit her out?

I tended to build plastic kits around 1/350 scale so the photo etch, and scratch building etc is nothing new to me but the R/C end of things is.

Ps: I hope that all made sense.


Thanks Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on April 27, 2010, 10:05:14 AM
It's difficult to answer as there are quite a few options.  E.g.  Gears or direct drive motors, 2 or 3 motors, etc.  However, there is some quite good info over on my Bismarck forum.  Have a look at this section of the forum http://buildthebismark.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=markus

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Dave stone on April 27, 2010, 10:37:39 AM
thank you Mark I will take a look.
I think direct drive and only two motors would be the best idea as I think the wight of three would have her sitting low in the water and she really has no need of the extra speed the third motor would give her  %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on April 27, 2010, 10:46:30 AM
I don't think the weight will be a problem, but as you say, she doesn't really need the extra power, and it's quite tricky fitted a centre line motor ans the shaft has to go through the keel.  Personally I'm going to fit the Hachette motors, but have lowered them to get a more scale appearance,  I'm also fitting scale props and rudders.  Two speed controllers and an on board V-tail mixer will give some differential steering by varying the motor speed to overcome the limited steering from the scale rudders.

Other people on my forum have fitted direct drive motors with 2 or 3 motors, so you should find some useful info.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Dave stone on April 27, 2010, 10:56:47 AM
hmmm interesting. Maybe I should get the kit R/C setup as I have not worked with R/C before it maybe a good ideea to wprk with a kit that explains things step by step  O0

lol Ah decisions

either way I have a few part fit issues to solve yet but I do not see that as much of a problem after the hell I went through getting a twist out of the bow area.
I almost feel it would have been better to get full length planks to do the hull so there was never a chance for it to happen in the first place.

May have just been me but I have the feeling I am not the only one who has had this happen.

Three small pics of a build I have just fin... sorryb they are small as they are off my cell phone

(http://s2.postimage.org/r71HA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/4T5K0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/4T8e9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 15, 2010, 01:09:36 AM
I have searched many sites and photos showing the Bismarck main guns forward,
no one photo shows the siting gun mounted on the upper forward gun that is shown
in the Hatchette plans, what is everyone's opinion on this dilemma...........

Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 15, 2010, 08:39:28 AM
Not sure which gun you're referring to, which issue are the parts in?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 15, 2010, 02:08:43 PM
Martin,

They are made in an earlier issue but the positioning is in Mag 140.


Roy


Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 15, 2010, 07:19:32 PM
Which diagram?   :-)

http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h140.htm

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on May 15, 2010, 09:48:01 PM
Step 86.

Never seen it on any drawings or photos.

Personally I think it looks silly, so I probably wouldn't fit it even if it is supposed to be there !

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 16, 2010, 01:05:07 AM
Mark is correct Martin, it does seem very strange to have a gun mounted on a gun,
never seen it before or heard of it, tossing up whether to attach it or not..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on May 16, 2010, 02:33:01 AM
From what i have read somewhere, it was mounted there but removed prior to Operation Rheinubung. Im not 100% sure where i read this, but i definately remember reading it.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 16, 2010, 07:26:26 AM
Mark is correct Martin, it does seem very strange to have a gun mounted on a gun,
never seen it before or heard of it, tossing up whether to attach it or not..........

Roy

I don't anything about this but I have seen quite a few model of older battle wagons with smaller guns mounted above mains guns ) mostly pre WW I ships, dreadnoughts, ironclads etc. alther the 3rd 7 4th photos below are from the WWII IJN Yamoto). I asked several models about these guns and how / when they would be used but I've not had a satisfactory answer... surely the concussion of the main guns would kill the gun crew on top of the turret!

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 18, 2010, 06:20:10 AM
Hi guys, been absent for a while, all stop on the Bismarck for now, garage is wrecked, can't get near my work bench!!
 I read with interest about the guns atop the Bismarck turret, I did see a photo on line of her getting the stripes on the hull 'touched up' on the starboard side. Looking toward the bow and the turrets were pointing to starboard. It did look as if 'something' was on top of 'Bruno', could have been an AA gun??
Perhaps these were fitted for defence while in port??.... Dave.

P/S I read that the blast from  the 18'" guns on the Japanese Battleships could take a persons skin off from 15 metres!!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Welshtrooper on May 18, 2010, 02:18:19 PM
Hi all I have been lurking for a while but I have collected all the issues of this build and I am about to embark on constuction, so I have it all to come, the highs, the lows, the acheivements and the frustrations. This is my first build of this sort as I have been used to plastic model aircraft so its new territiry for me. I dare say I will come across problems with ill fitting pieces, plus the hull sounds like a bit of a nightmare but if I can get that done I guess the rest will be easier. I will keep you all posted as and when I start and let you know how I get on. %% %%
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 19, 2010, 04:36:05 AM
Hello Welshtrooper, I'm sure this 'wooden' kit will try your patience for sure, as do a lot of kits!, and without doubt you'll come accross a few 'ill fitting' parts,  you can get these with 'plastic' kits as well, you've  just got to 'adapt' to the different materials..... and fix it!!
The hull is'nt quite the 'nightmare' you may think it is, study and understand the instructions, but if you're like me, I 'deviated' a lot from them and did it my way. Look through the forum and all other relevent material on other sites, there's a lot of help out there that will benefit you as a 'new starter'
So good luck, be patient with it and you'll end up with a great model, always be thinking ahead.
So, I wish you happy building 'Welshtrooper', and please remember, members of this Forum will only be to glad to assist you if need be.....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Tugwilson on May 19, 2010, 06:12:29 AM
Thats going to be 140 weeks. the human race could be extinct by then. there has to be an easier and cheaper way to build this ship. %)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DickyD on May 19, 2010, 09:45:04 AM
Neither the Bismark or the Tirpitz had a gun mounted on the turret :-))

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on May 19, 2010, 02:13:08 PM
Richard,

Sorry me old mate but you are wrong on this one pal, the Gun in question was
installed when the shipwas about to be commissioned as a aid to help with aircraft bombing and strafing
and then taken off after it originally left for it's testing or fettling run........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on May 26, 2010, 10:23:28 PM
Just a wee thought for today, May 27th 1941 Bismarck is sunk....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Boathound on May 26, 2010, 10:39:11 PM
Many WW2 warships had anti aircraft guns usually on B turret and rear turret if it was a single, they would never be placed on a turret which had a turret above it. On early dreadnaughts some turrets had anti torpedo boat light guns on them but they were soon discarded but not due to blast problems. They were to be used on small targets to close for main guns which would not be firing at the same time.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Dave stone on June 02, 2010, 11:56:43 AM
Small question but what diameter and length propeller shafts should I get?
And also what rudder size also?
Thank you all in advance
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on June 02, 2010, 01:39:51 PM
Going out to the shed in the morning and will be putting
on the three flags on the Bismarck and it will be finished :-)) :} ;D


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: mark_1984 on June 02, 2010, 08:45:54 PM
Well done Roy.  It'll be a good while before I'm doing the same!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on June 05, 2010, 02:16:05 PM
Just to show that it is finished a couple of pics..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on June 05, 2010, 05:51:15 PM
Nice, really nice Roy, well done sir!  O0
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Dave stone on June 05, 2010, 11:27:37 PM
nice job Roy... at the rate I am going I am around seven months behind you lol  {-)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Peter Fitness on June 05, 2010, 11:54:46 PM
Great job, Roy, it looks wonderful.

Is the Swastika reversed deliberately?

Peter.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on June 06, 2010, 11:01:41 AM
Peter,

I have been sent Pms about the sticka, mistake actually no one took
any notice of which way it should have been, at least it will stop the whiners I suppose............ {-) {-)



Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on July 01, 2010, 10:50:07 AM
I have some new pictures on of my bismarck here is one
for the rest go see my topic O0 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: maninthestreet on July 09, 2010, 11:48:18 AM
Interesting story:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/berkshire/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8797000/8797855.stm
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on July 25, 2010, 10:38:57 AM
here a film about the bismarck, youtube link over here

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjQMyLM6JSw

enjoy :police:
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on July 25, 2010, 07:00:07 PM
What colours is everyone using ? The instructions give RAL numbers but very few of these corespond directly to Humbrol.

Thanks

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on July 26, 2010, 03:10:31 AM
Hi all.

Im just using Spray paints that look right. Im not too fussed about getting the exact colour. As long as it looks right to me then im happy with it. I tend to get the =plastic-kote projekt paint= range. They are a pretty good colour match.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 26, 2010, 06:53:54 PM
Eventually... I will be using various greys for the upper works and the hull much like this...

(http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/paint_schemes/pictures/1941rheinubung/paintbism1941rheinub01sidesmall.gif)

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/paint_schemes/paintbism1941rheinubung.html (http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/paint_schemes/paintbism1941rheinubung.html)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: berth44 on July 27, 2010, 11:27:50 PM
I remember when you just used..'Battleship Grey', now as you all say, there's heaps of different shades out there, I'm using light and dark 'sea grey' looks good to me!!....Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Testsubjec on September 08, 2010, 12:45:58 PM
Any idea when you will be carrying on the Bismarck build Martin??
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 08, 2010, 06:16:16 PM

 Stuck on another secret project at the moment.... !
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on September 24, 2010, 07:50:53 AM
Hi all.

Regarding painting the Swastika on the decks. How did everyone, that has painted it on, do it? Did you brush paint it? I have already tried to spray paint it on and ended up having the paint bleed through all the deck. >:-o  So got replacement issues & dont want to have the same thing happen.

Cheers All

Ryan
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 24, 2010, 02:49:50 PM
Hilux,

All I did mate was paint the red section and the Swastika on the white circle is a sticker...........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on September 25, 2010, 04:26:04 AM
But how did you paint the red? When i spray painted mine, the paint bled all over the decking.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: cbr900 on September 25, 2010, 03:00:03 PM
Usually if the paint bleeds badly it means one of two things, the base coat was not properly dry
or the fresh paint was not compatible with what was there..........


Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on September 26, 2010, 02:32:54 AM
Great. Thanks Roy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 27, 2010, 07:20:24 AM
Anyone going to build this?

http://www.model-space.co.uk/ships/battleship-yamato
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: steve pickstock on September 27, 2010, 07:28:02 AM
If I'm not mistaken that is the one that Jinx8 is building now.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on September 29, 2010, 12:21:49 AM
My Bismarck comes closer to compleation!

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/100_1228.jpg)

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/100_1230.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on September 29, 2010, 03:34:01 AM
Looking Good Eric. We are up to Issue 126 this week in New Zealand so we are almost at an end too.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Jimmy James on September 30, 2010, 08:51:55 PM
cbr900
 That Swastika you posted on your Bismarck looks a bit strange to me ---more like the Finnish one than the German one --- I could be mistaken if so I apologise for alarming you (The Finnish one is the opposite way around to the German one) She's a really nice looking model no matter which way it is.
Freebooter
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: essex2visuvesi on September 30, 2010, 10:05:41 PM
Anyone going to build this?

http://www.model-space.co.uk/ships/battleship-yamato

I would like to but the Wife says no Im not  >>:-(

Ive got the Deagostini Victory, and modelspace Cutty sark to build lol
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on October 21, 2010, 08:24:35 PM
Another Bismarck completed and ready to set sail.

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/Bismarck/100_1347.jpg)

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/Bismarck/100_1326.jpg)

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/Bismarck/100_1334.jpg)

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/Bismarck/100_1342.jpg)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: justboatonic on October 21, 2010, 08:49:44 PM
Some really good builds here! I never thought the magazine kit could be built so well!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: The long Build on October 21, 2010, 08:57:56 PM
Looks absolutely superb.  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: kelvin on October 24, 2010, 03:44:16 PM
I agree, alot of text without any photos is quit boring,

so here is my story so far :police:
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/Bismarck/panasonic008.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/Bismarck/panasonic009.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/Bismarck/panasonic010.jpg)
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/Dutchkelvin/Bismarck/panasonic011.jpg)

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: John R Haynes on December 11, 2010, 10:09:19 AM
In reply to the question , what are the small guns doing sitting atop the main turrets. These were practice guns and linked to the main guns in the turret below . Gun crews could then  practice firing the main guns but in reality only used the smaller guns with much smaller ammunition and thus save a great deal of money and wear and tear of the main gun barrels.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: derekwarner on December 11, 2010, 11:30:36 AM
mmmm {:-{ sorry ....John R Haynes ... the POP guns ''a top" the main ordance were cosmetic & for AA [anti aircraft] use only  >>:...there was no electro/mechanical relationship between the respective elements

The main ordanance could displace a 1000 kg projectile ...possibly 15 Km
The secondary POP guns ''a top" the main ordance could displace a 25 kg projectile about 1 Km......Derek
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dreadnought72 on December 11, 2010, 03:37:48 PM
Sorry, Derek - there were mechanical linkages between the turret top guns on the Dreadnought, and the main weapons below, for a fact.

Andy



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: derekwarner on December 12, 2010, 04:58:12 AM
Andy..... O0 one of the important things with Mayhem....is that we never need to say sorry  {:-{ , however it is important to understand fact  :P

1. vintage battle vessels... such as the dreadnaught class..did have auxiliary AA  ancillaries mounted atop of the principal armament
2. the hydraulic & electrical supply for these AA ancillaries was via the principal armament structure
3. these secondary AA ancillaries had not only independent hydraulic systems to the principal armament, but also independent electrical supply systems to their own independent hydraulic/electrical systems...over again to the principal armament
4. the principal armament was controlled by mechanical computers [gears, cogs, pins & disks.....] Bill Gates parent's were not born yet  {-) {-)
5. the secondary AA ancillaries were ...'aim & shoot'.....nothing more ....nothing less

With reflection....the electro/mechanical military designer/stratagets of the last century were brilliant thinkers  :-)) & possibly a little before or ahead of their time   O0 ....Derek
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: pugwash on December 12, 2010, 09:24:25 AM
Is there a difnitive answer - I spent an hour last night going thru' any books I had on the subject of battleships main armament
and I am still non the wiser as to what is the correct answer but don't lets go to war about it - save that till Perth cricket ground on
Thursday.
Geoff
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: John R Haynes on December 12, 2010, 12:15:34 PM
All I can say is when I was restoring the IWM 1/48 scale models in the 8o's there were linkages from the guns on top of the turrets down into the turret structure itself . To see this on the models go to my site www.johnrhaynes.com/portfolio and look at the Agamemnon photos shown . when I queried this with the War Museum they confirmed what I previously posted
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: marmoi on December 12, 2010, 12:28:05 PM
Having spent many hours investigating the Dreadnoughts turret drawings, I can confirm that the guns on top of the turrets did have linkages into the main turret so they could be connected for training purposes. Anti air craft guns were not a consideration when the Dreadnought was designed, only anti torpedo boat guns.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: John R Haynes on December 12, 2010, 03:26:09 PM
Also if you refer to John Roberts Dreadnought book page 234 you will find a large diagramme of the 12pdr with linkage , described as connected up for short range practice.. The accompaning write up says this reduced the cost for  practice firing
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Hilux5972 on January 10, 2011, 07:48:25 PM
Hi all. Just picked up the last issue here in NZ. Pics will be uploaded when she is complete.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Propslip on February 17, 2011, 11:04:15 AM
I am glad to see all these bismarcks nearing completion. I decided to wait & let everyone else sort out the teething problems & hopefully pick a complete set up later. I was lucky & a week or two back picked up the complete 140 issues unopened for £160 :-) on ebay. Bought a set of JB gun barrels, very fast too & a couple of reference books so now all I have to do is build it & wait another 5 years for the Hood maybe!!
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rsm on February 17, 2011, 11:13:53 AM
You won't need to wait that long for a Hood to go with your Bismarck!!!!!!!!  :-))

http://www.buildhmshood.com/
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Propslip on February 17, 2011, 11:21:09 AM
I will if I want to pick it up for £160 squid :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: NMJH on April 07, 2011, 04:03:29 AM
building my Bismark, i have trouble doing Planks, the tacks i use, are hard put in, to keep planks in place, the clamps i got, dont fit in areas i'd like them 2, the lukabands i have, arnt really useful

I'm up to issue 13, can someone please help me on how i can do this well? really bothering me lol...
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Eric65 on April 15, 2011, 10:17:13 PM
NMJH, I used dress making pins for the first layer of planks, the ones with the coloured plasic blobs on the ends.

They are hard to put in by hand, so I used a pair of pointy pliars to put them in with. Make sure you scrape off excess glue on the ribs from the last plank you put on, sometimes some can ooze out, harden and make the next plank sit a bit proud, you need the plank to lie flat on the rib.

Sand the planking smooth before second planking, it dosn't need to be pretty or perfect, all will be hidden by the second layer, but it does need to be smooth.

Fot the second layer planks I bought clamps, they needed a small hole drilled into the first layer planks and ribs or they could split them. Make sure you put the clamps in where the rib is so it gets a good grip. The advantage of using clamps is that there will be no holes in the top layer of planks.
It is even more vital that you clean off excess glue when second planking, you don't want planks sitting proud, gives you extra work sanding down!

Good luck, take your time, and be ready to do a lot of sanding when finished!

Eric.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: tr7v8 on May 24, 2011, 09:11:44 PM
Hi Richard,

Have you seen my "build"? - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg39250#msg39250


Sorry to bother you Martin...
I've joined this website in order to get help for my Bismarck and I found your excellent guide with a lot of info and pictures.
Can you please tell me why I only see the first 2 pages from your build?
On the second page, your last messages is:
Any Advice or comments here please.>>>    Here!                                                   
 NB: To view the images from now on, you need to join the Forum!
 
  Martin   

Thank you very much! Good day.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 25, 2011, 09:42:10 PM
Sorry Martin, my Bismarck build has been on hold for some time now.....  {:-{

Have you seen:  
http://buildthebismark.proboards.com/index.cgi?
http://www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h140.htm
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: thebackways on May 30, 2011, 03:28:05 AM
ive recived a biskmark hull with the models my stepdad left me, shes unfinished and planked ( very badly ) shes also filled with medical bandage ( as opposed to the gauze the mag suggests )
the outer planks are peeling away in some segmants, and ive only a few parts for the superstructure >_<
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Coaster on July 12, 2011, 05:13:08 PM
Hi everybody!
I've just joined the forum as I was impressed by the amount of work and advice that has been given on the Bismarck.
I have just bought the kit from a charity shop(!) which had been given the hull and most of the parts by someone who had given up for some reason.  He had started the hull and done most of the first planking but it is done very badly and I have started to remove as much as I can, not an easy job, has anybody any advice on this?
The forum seems to have gone a bit dead on Bismarck, perhaps the guy who had mine was not the only one to give up!
I was told by the shop that all the parts were there but I have found that 129 and 130 are missing, has anybody got any they could sell me?  I keep looking on ebay without success.
This is not my first plank on frame model but all the brasswork certainly makes it look different
I look forward to getting on with the build.
Best wishes to all.
Warren
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 12, 2011, 09:42:55 PM
Hi Warren,
Welcome to the Mayhem!

 I was one that gave up..... I was enjoying the build but they (Hachett) certainly didn't make it an easy build but
 strangely, overcoming the problem was mostly what I enjoyed of my build before I stopped.

 It is a very good project and you will enjoy the build, especially it the hull is finished and in good shape, if it isn't, stop
 and spend the time getting a glass like finish BEFORE starting on the upper works.

 Missing issues often appear on ebay, set up a [saved search[ for "Build the Bismarck" - it's also being published if other
 countries so ordering those two issues "shouldn't" be a real problem.

 What are you doing for the motor set up?

 This is what a good hull looks like... unfortunately not mine.....  {:-{
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: rem2007 on July 27, 2011, 09:42:11 PM
Would anyone one like the History of The Bismarck and other literature that came with the subscription as I'm moving abroad, well home, and it weighs too much, besides, I have several books on the topic.

Send pm and can arrange local pick up, hopefully.

Robert
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Redcap on August 25, 2011, 08:19:01 PM
Newbie to this Forum.  Thought I'd better get myself joined up to somewhere where I can get some advice from serious boat builders. I started the Deagostini Hood which of course went Kaput, so have just signed up for the Hachette Hood. Rather daunting task for me as up until a couple of years back, I was strictly into plastic ship modelling, usually 1/350 though I did the resin cast  6ft long Accurate Armour Type VII U-Boat which was fun.

Anyhow, my very first attempt at wood modelling was the Hachette Bismarck. I just don't have the skills required to produce a "sailing" r/c model, and decide to try something different and "waterline" it. Didn't fancy sawing through the completed full hull, so I got a large block of polystyrene foam and carved out a recess for the hull. With the hull set into the foam, I sculpted waves from polyfilla and painted them up, then "cased" the whole base in wood, stained and varnished and used brass angle strip for the corners.

If nothing else it gave me the confidence to try another wood build and hopfully the Hood will make a nice companion for it. May well do Hood in a waterline setting also.

Hope you like it. By the way, the thing sitting against the hull towards the stern is a WW2 German Navy Fleet Service Badge as issued to Bismarck crew members.
(http://s1.postimage.org/2k5yf10jo/BM1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2k5yf10jo/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Redcap on August 25, 2011, 08:20:34 PM
Some close ups.
(http://s1.postimage.org/2k6x5bax0/BM2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2k6x5bax0/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Redcap on August 25, 2011, 08:21:52 PM
Midships
(http://s1.postimage.org/2k75f01dw/BM3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2k75f01dw/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Redcap on August 25, 2011, 08:25:30 PM
You can just make out a few crew figures. These are actually the little which plastic figures that are sold as "architectural figures" that are used with architects models of buildings to show scale.  Little white plastic businessmen in double breasted suits make quite passable naval officers when painted dark blue  ok2
(http://s1.postimage.org/2kblu4pac/BM5.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2kblu4pac/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: richtea on August 25, 2011, 08:37:29 PM
Nice build Redcap,
I'm sure you will make a fine job of Hood.
Just take your time and remember it's supposed to be FUN and RELAXATION.
Regards
Richard  :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: davidm1945 on September 07, 2011, 01:31:53 PM
Superb detail there, are you doing Hood aswell?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Redcap on September 20, 2011, 10:36:20 AM
Thanks for the compliments guys. Yes, doing the Hood as well. Started off with the De Agostini whicxh of course was cancelled so have now started the Hachetteversion. Kinda glad that it turned out that way as I am confident that the Hachette version will be superior.
Will "waterline" the Hood to. Just got to find somewhere to put it when its built !
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Philipsparker on October 19, 2011, 08:39:51 AM
Photos of a nice, finished, Bismark here:

http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2011/10/built-bismark.html (http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2011/10/built-bismark.html)

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6240/6250663449_0d35b76d10.jpg)

Phil
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 25, 2012, 08:04:32 PM
Not cheap but complete...

HACHETTE - Build The Bismarck COMPLETE ISSUES 1 to 140 - £375

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HACHETTE-Build-Bismarck-COMPLETE-ISSUES-1-140-/330704209988?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item4cff81c844
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: BrianB6 on April 27, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
I thought you might like to see a 1:100 Bismark sailing on Albert Park lake last weekend.
(Yes, where the Australian GP takes place and TF 72 sail)
Not quite finished but it apparently took 42 days to get to this stage by a first time builder.
We did tell him that it is supposed to take years to build a battleship but he thought he could finish it in another week.
Absolutly fantastic paint finish and the electrics etc. were beautiful to see.
If the full size ship had the speed and manouverability of the model she would never have been caught!
He is planning a whole fleet including an Anzac frigate and several other battleships in the next year.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: billg on April 28, 2012, 01:57:10 AM
I thought you might like to see a 1:100 Bismark sailing on Albert Park lake last weekend.
(Yes, where the Australian GP takes place and TF 72 sail)
Not quite finished but it apparently took 42 days to get to this stage by a first time builder.
We did tell him that it is supposed to take years to build a battleship but he thought he could finish it in another week.
Absolutly fantastic paint finish and the electrics etc. were beautiful to see.
If the full size ship had the speed and manouverability of the model she would never have been caught!
He is planning a whole fleet including an Anzac frigate and several other battleships in the next year.

42 days jeez, it takes me a day to even contemplate cutting out a piece of wood or tackle the etch work
looks absolutely brilliant
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 28, 2012, 11:48:01 AM

   42 days?!?  - That Krishna territory!  ok2
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Alexandr on November 18, 2012, 05:26:33 PM


Please advertise your wares in the Traders Section or better still become a sponsor of the Mayhem Forum.

Bob



Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: dreadnought72 on November 18, 2012, 07:59:34 PM

   42 days?!?  - That Krishna territory!  ok2

In terms of the time, yes.

If Krishna were doing it, it'd be 42 days and about £3.  O0

Andy
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Traff on February 24, 2013, 05:12:30 AM
Thank you very much.  Been on the go with it for about 5 years but have been away for a couple of years with it "laid up".  Wish I hade come across this site when I started, would have saved me a lot of angst and gery hair  ok2  Looking forward to finishing it soon then getting y teeth into the Hood.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: jimmy on March 07, 2013, 06:40:31 AM
where can i order back issues
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 07, 2013, 11:26:16 AM
Try - http://www.hachette.co.uk/ (http://www.hachette.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: max42 on June 12, 2013, 07:48:43 PM
just be aware they will have very few episodes left  :((
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: henly1234 on July 31, 2015, 09:11:23 PM
Anyone ever finish this, I did a job recently and when I entered the property, I saw the chap had two part finished models, one the Titanic and the other the Bismark, I'd never seen either of them before and when I queried them he said he could not do any more to them, so i asked what he intended to do with them and he offered me the lot including all the issues of the mag and parts etc, for both ships for free.

So I've now got another model (Bismark, I farmed the Titanic out) sitting on my shelf to be finished.


Anyone who wants the mags is welcome to them, they are complete in binders, I will never read them and I don't need them for the build, of course I would want them picked up or post and package supplied.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 31, 2015, 09:45:11 PM
 
Loads have been finish and some to a very high standards!

See:  http://www.partworkmodels.co.uk/phpBB3/

Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TheLongBuild on July 31, 2015, 09:49:17 PM

Loads have been finish and some to a very high standards!

See:  http://www.partworkmodels.co.uk/phpBB3/

 :police: :police: 8) 8) >>:-( >>:-( :police: :police: :} :}
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Jjdsplace on October 14, 2015, 07:56:58 AM
Looking good
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: imsinking on October 14, 2015, 09:13:01 AM
? ? ?  %)  Yeah Martin . . . what happened to your BISMARCK ? I joined the forum many tides ago as you stopped listing the work on the main home page and said "continuing on the forum" there's been zilch since , is it on the shelf / in the bin / or gone to a good home ?  <*<
Bill
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Stavros on October 14, 2015, 09:39:24 AM
I think it has like its counterpart SUNK WITHOUT TRACE


Dave
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 01, 2016, 08:49:44 AM
Hi all, I have just joined the forum, as I have restarted my Bismarck build after many years of having put it aside.
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 01, 2016, 09:56:29 AM
 
Ooooh! This should be good!   :-))
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 01, 2016, 10:53:57 AM
Well yes I do hope so.
I am using 3X10mm balsa strips to add between the ribs so as to have a better base for the planking.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 01, 2016, 11:46:41 AM
 
Ah! You're fitting an armour belt!    ok2
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: TheLongBuild on March 01, 2016, 12:33:38 PM
 :}

Ah! You're fitting an armour belt!    ok2

Did you not  fit one on yours Martin  {-)
 
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 01, 2016, 12:51:34 PM

Did you not  fit one on yours Martin  {-)


No, I was going to build mine as a Greenpeace conversion!    %)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 02, 2016, 03:00:24 AM

Ah! You're fitting an armour belt!    ok2

I thought it might be a bit better than glue and gauze. Will add about 120 grams to the mass. Given a max displacement of 6250g +/-10g will still need 2500g ballast.
I have read through your build as far as it went and for me when faced with the planking some 6 years ago I stopped the hull with 12 strips of the 1st layer on.
I continued with deck and superstructure for odd hours here and there for some 6 months. Other things got in the way, a proper place to build, work, home projects (including construction of a garage) and life matters as many others have faced. 
BTW Why all the verification checks?   
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 02, 2016, 05:09:25 AM
Quote
BTW Why all the verification checks?

Verification is only for anyone's first 5 posts.... to discourage spam-bots!  >:-o
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 05, 2016, 01:45:10 AM
And so on go more planks over the balsa and ribs.
Note another small change from the assembly instructions: I inserted the shafts before planking.
I could not see how I could drill holes after planking was done.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 05, 2016, 01:47:23 AM
Next plank. Hmmm needs trimming.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 05, 2016, 01:49:08 AM
Glued and pinned.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 05, 2016, 01:50:33 AM
Lets see how that looks with the next plank and some sanding.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 05, 2016, 01:53:41 AM
And a bit farther forward on the same side.
Yeah I think that's OK.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Martin [Admin] on March 05, 2016, 04:16:17 AM
 
Looking good!
 What glue are you using?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: DJWaust on March 05, 2016, 05:45:54 AM
Polyurethane glue for this stage of the planking. It foams and I cut back the foam.
I assembled the frames with external grade PVA. I am swapping to aliphatic resin (titebond 3) for the rest of the superstructure frames. I might use the titebond for the second layer of planks and avoid pinning - use rubber bands?
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: lilgoth on September 10, 2016, 11:42:05 PM
Anyone still working on this ?

i had one back in the day, but unfrotunatly i had to leave the project in the hads on my stepfather (who turned out to be as useful as  a chocolate teapot )

but i picked up another off the Evilbay, which seems complete, annoyingly i was planning to R/c this model and the person that started it glued the deck down, and hasnt drilled holes for props and such
(http://i.imgur.com/nUQ206W.jpg)

the original hull, in the terrible shape it is in, will require a third level of planking to get it into shape so i plan to model as a different ( fictional) ship, most likely i will 3d print a ton of parts and turn it into the 'Galaxy Class' battleship from the Videogame Supreme Commander,
(http://supcom.standardof.net/files/2012/12/Galaxy-Class-Battleship.png)
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: warspite on September 11, 2016, 12:18:30 PM
If you are going to over plank the deck, they why not check to see where in the rear superstructure it can be prised up or even dremeled off, any repair to the superstructure sides will be as easy to do than trying to convert it to the space ship, as would RC conversion, with careful planning, all the rear could be removed and replaced after stripping off the decking as you were planning on repairing this by laying another layer on top.

If you have the books then, knowing where the structural bits are, will help you to find the best places to cut.
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: lilgoth on September 14, 2016, 11:32:42 PM
i uploaded the Wrong Photo, the photo i posted of Bismark is the hull im completing AS the Bismark as per the original instructions ( albiet with R/c and perhaps lighting )

if i am to R/c it, i will have to dremel the deck off ( and im not looking forward to THAT ) and then perhaps worse, drill a hole for the Prop Shafts.

how would i go about drilling holes into the completed hull for the propshafts ? and does anyone who has R/c their Bismark know what Propshafts i will need

i will try to get some photos of the other hull, so show just how bad she is ( there is a part of me that thinks she may be beyond salvage )
Title: Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
Post by: Sonar on July 02, 2017, 11:11:56 AM
i uploaded the Wrong Photo, the photo i posted of Bismark is the hull im completing AS the Bismark as per the original instructions ( albiet with R/c and perhaps lighting )

if i am to R/c