Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail R&D: => Topic started by: Jimmy James on March 23, 2011, 02:48:33 pm
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Medieval Warship "Dragons Bane" resurrected
I built "Dragons Bane" (Dragon's being the Viking or Dragon ships) in 1989 as a fun boat but she sailed so well (On calm days) she became a favorite the catapult was added in about 91 or 2 and she used to bombard the local kids with sweets much to the delight of the youngsters
She was build of 64th ply and corn flakes cardboard with out any frames or molds all the planking takes up its natural curves and she is clinker (Lapstraked in the US of A)
Built and 2 x 1/4 frames were added before the deck was glued on mainly to hold the battery --- I'm going to plank the decks re-rig her and install new electronics. sail control will be a small capstain (I might try a sail arm servo) for the sail and a small servo for the rudder.
Enough talking, Here's the pictures if enought interist is generated I'll go into the constrution
(http://s3.postimage.org/2277qg0p0/Dragons_Bane.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2277qg0p0/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/228rypthg/After_Castle_rudder.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/228rypthg/)
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more pix --I Hope
(http://s3.postimage.org/22m1x1478/endless_sheet_for_sail.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22m1x1478/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/22mdhsjno/Fighting_top_7_Archer.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22mdhsjno/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/22mgsv8n8/Foc_le.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22mgsv8n8/)
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(http://s3.postimage.org/22mu160lg/Foc_le_bow.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22mu160lg/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/22myzs22s/For_d_out_riggers.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22myzs22s/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/22n5lxg1w/Fore_hatch.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22n5lxg1w/)
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(http://s3.postimage.org/22nuezngk/Main_Hatch.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22nuezngk/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/22nzdloxw/Planking_in_Hold.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22nzdloxw/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/22ofwz5vo/Rudder_aft_planking.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22ofwz5vo/)
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(http://s3.postimage.org/22ptj3kp0/Sail_mast_fighting_top.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22ptj3kp0/)
As you can see she's in a bit of a state she's been in the loft since 96 and I just blew most of the dust off and took some snaps--- The varnish is dark with age and she never had a planked deck I think 3 or 4 weeks work should see her right and I can get back to chasing those Dragons
Freebooter
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I'd describe her as a nef, and with her stern-hung rudder, perhaps late 13th century. :-))
Does she carry (must do!) a false keel. And how did you brew up the huill lines?
Final question (for now!) What lies under the blue tarp in the backyard at Kings Lynn? %)
Andy
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Very nice Jimmy.
More details of how she was constructed please, and also answers to Andy's questions.
The patena of the aged varnish makes her look just right.
Well done, and so much detail
cheers
kiwi
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That is great Jimmy ,you can turn your hand ,great skill .
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Andy ,Dave & Kiwi
AAAH! the mysterious Blue tarp..It is the cover of a 56 year old Enterprise 14' Sailing Dingy (Still in sailing condition with the original sails) I sail Her at Brancaster, Blakney and Wells (Norfolk Coast)
I'll start posting plans in 3 or 4 days." Dragons Bane" was built without plans (the Hull in 3 or 4 days as I seem to remember) I have to draw them up ... Really they will be my way of building a clinker hull ( you can scale it down to build ships boats and lifeboats & dingies no frames are used until the hull is finished this makes for a very light strong hull as it is all natural curves of the wood ...Yes she has a bolt on keel :embarrassed: {-) :-))
Jimmy
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It is the cover of a 56 year old Enterprise 14' Sailing Dingy (Still in sailing condition with the original sails) I sail Her at Brancaster, Blakney and Wells (Norfolk Coast)
Ha ha - I thought maybe my Enterprise spider-sense was tingling. I own E18570. Wooden, mid/late 70s vintage - but want something bigger. %)
I hope your nef doesn't have the woeful weather helm I always found the Ent to have! :}
Andy
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Andy I think my sail no# is E1449 (I'll Have to check)wooden with most of the origanal fittings though as I sail singal handed a lot I put in an extra set of cam cleats about 3 foot aft of the normal ones for the jib (makes the sheet easer to reach) also I have very little weather helm but I have heard the older boats rarely suffer as much as the more modern ones do
Jimmy
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MORNING JIMMY, just medieval war ship , nice build again seeing the age of it ,
do you ever produce plans of your models , if so i would be interested, i have found your sail rigg drawings most use full.
you should produce a book on your modeling . to help old duffers like me , to get on better {-)
good show cheers LARRY W..... :-))
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Hi Jimmy,
I fully concur with what LarryW has suggested for you. And even jottings as well of your seafaring journeys as Bryan Young has done, and which we all found so interesting. Your sketches are so clear and so well executed, collecting them together with drawings of your models and explanation texts would give you enough material already for at least Half the book, so think on it please.
The Master Builds from Bryan, Bunkerbarge and others have i'm sure helped so many of us on here.
My ten cents worth - that's a shilling in real money
cheers and take care
kiwi
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Jimmy,
How well does your model actually sail? Straight down wind only or are you able to make much progress across wind or even tack?
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OK, Ganging up on me are you - {:-{ I never Draw up plans before I build a model though sometimes I work from a photo or painting But I build types of ships or vessels I very rarely build a specific ship or vessel only about 4 or 5 and they were done to order as for writing a book ??? my brain works so much faster than my poor hands I,m allways 20 or 30 letters ahead of my typing so when I look back at what I've done ,,,its all Gobble DE gook and I have to re type 80% of it I then get Teed off at what I ve done and bin it Nooop! Don't think I'll do a book this life time...Sorry Chaps
Freebooter
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HI JIMMY, I WISH I HAD YOUR BUILD TALENT, shame about the book how about a ghost writer :-))
BLACK ROSE , is of for sail soon , when garden is finished,
my pool is 24ml trip away, but its a salt water sorta ,so no reed beds , LARRY W... O0
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Looking forward to seeing the "Rose". Rite I have been working how to do these plans and have come up with as they say a "cunning plan " (no pun intended)
I'm going to take close up snaps of the hull, Post some diagrams and part build a hull out of cornflake boxes while photographing the results this should give you most of the tricks and wrinkles to build your own boats its a simple build and should go pretty quickly
1) photo of keel , Keelson & Shell planking taken through the main hatch & diagrams
(http://s1.postimage.org/mcdjo744/Building_the_Keel_keelson_stem_stern_posts.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mcdjo744/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/mcvql0jo/Keel_Keelson_Planking.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mcvql0jo/)
Instead of cutting a rebate in the keel , stem & stern posts I've built each section in 2 pieces this will all ways give the planking some thing to rest on and a good area to glue to.
Jimmy
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Hi Jimmy,
I understand your problem with the keyboard. I always have to go back and correct anything I type up.
That's why I suggested maybe just posting short reminisences, or a series of build articles on your boats.
With your knowledge of ships and your building skills I'm sure that capturing the various types, in photos and print would help others.
If I was in England I'd offer to come measure your models and draw up drawings for you, as a way of passing on the information to others.
The drawing up part for me is just as enjoyable (and frustrating at times) as the actual build, because I learn so much about the actual fullsize construction and the methods used to build in that way.
But, Please continue with showing us your builds, (and rebuilds) and how you rig and sail your models. I really don't know all that much about sail boat rigging, even though I have a very strong interest in the sailing scows of New Zealand, (and schooners do it for me to) from 100 years ago, when they where at their peak here, And I was brought up sailing and messing about in dingy's etc. Just spent so long leading a semi nomadic life working around the world in places far far from the sea and lakes, didn't really have the opportunities to build and sail. But now that I'm back in NZ where there is a lake, river or the sea, no more than 15 to 20 minutes from anywhere, I'm enjoying ship modelling again.
Keep up the good work and take care
kiwi
ps your just posted description of construction is magic, clear and well written. Keep them coming.
I'll shut up and read and learn now. Thank you Jimmy.
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(http://s4.postimage.org/222kssplw/After_Castle_rudder.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/222kssplw/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/223b9e9ic/Bow_planking_i.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/223b9e9ic/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/223tgb2xw/Hull_Bracing_and_Planking.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/223tgb2xw/)
1) After castle and rudder 2) Bow Planking 3)Hull Bracing & Planking
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(http://s4.postimage.org/227roixes/Planking_bracing_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/227roixes/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2284wtpd0/Stem_post_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2284wtpd0/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/228vdf99g/Stem_post_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/228vdf99g/)
1) Planking & Bracing-2 2)Stem Post -1 3) Stem post 2
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These are some very old ships boats built this way But of writing paper not card they are old (About 25 or 30 years) and battered (And covered in dust) but it shows what YOUcan do
(http://s1.postimage.org/n4mn6mtg/Card_boats_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n4mn6mtg/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/n4wkeps4/Old_Boats.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n4wkeps4/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/n5erbj7o/Sea_Boat.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n5erbj7o/)
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(http://s1.postimage.org/n68izs3o/Steam_Launch.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n68izs3o/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/n6dhltl0/Whaler.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n6dhltl0/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/n6gsoikk/Whaler_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n6gsoikk/)
These boats are approx 2" (inches) long and are on an Old Victorian (Type) gun boat ...Old and battard like the builder
The purpose of this exercise is to show what can be done with this way of building
Jimmy
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HI jimmy, what a great idea , and build lessons and sketches are great, keep them coming,
i print them out and fit them in folder,.......
why not contact MARINE MODELING INTERNATIONAL, they would really enjoy your articles
its a great mag .........LARRY W.
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Sorry Gang having Female Prob's at the moments 2 Granddaughters have Chicking pox and can't go to school so Mister Muggings here has to look after them from 08:00 to 19:00 when Daughter or Son Inlaw pick them up and take them home, so it's going to be about a week before I can get some work done and posted Sorry.
Jimmy
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Jimmy,
Enjoy your time being nurse. See you back here in a week
cheers
kiwi
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HI JIMMY, dont worry thats what grandads are fore O0 hope the kids get well soon,
taking BLACK ROSE to pool to day , will keep you posted. LARRY w .
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Thanks gang , its been another exhausting day at least the Boss is here to take up the slack... I wasn't planning on posting anything but managed to get some photos of my capstan installation on Freebooter (For controlling the yards and square sails) I'll use the same method on "Dragons Bane" Basically it's a geared motor (100/1)with the shaft sticking through the hatch (Direct drive) with the capstan drum bolted on to it ( the drum has part of a choc box connector glued into in it's the base , thats the grub screw you can see at the base of the drum) control is achieved by a home made bob's board glued on to a small servo with a sweep arm. It's not rocket science but cheap and reliable ,and it's one of my favorite ways of working square sails For more info check in sail & yachting R&D Brigantine Freebooter
(http://s4.postimage.org/xlpb94h0/Bobs_board_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xlpb94h0/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/xmt05gbo/Bobs_board_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xmt05gbo/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/xn19u6sk/Bobs_board_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xn19u6sk/)
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(http://s4.postimage.org/xnei4yqs/Bobs_Board_4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xnei4yqs/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/xnjgr084/Capstan_instalation.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xnjgr084/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/xnmrtp7o/Capstan_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xnmrtp7o/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/xntdz36s/Caostan_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xntdz36s/)
It's not pretty but it's seen a lot of hard work over the last 7 years and has never failed to perform.
Jimmy
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Sorry I should have made the wiring of the bobs board more clear .... The 2 wires on the sweep run to the motor .... the 2 wires on the board run to the battery....
when the sweep is in the centre the motor is stopped ... When it is turned anti clockwise the motor runs one way ....when it is turned clock wise the motor turns the other way ...there is no slow or fast but at 100/1 gearing it's not fast but it is powerfull ...why 100/1 ? because it is the most realistic speed when swinging the yards
I see one I missed on the thread "Sailing" about 4 1/2 points off the wind (1 Point = 11 1/4 deg. compass ) is the best she can do and that is with the yard braced up nearly Fore & Aft and making a lot of leeway ...she foots along quite nicely 5 points off the wind and skims along with a solders wind she ware's nicely but shes to light to tack I have almost done it 4 or 5 times by making sternway and reversing the helm but no luck ...having said that shes no slouch under sail and holds a dead straight course
Freebooter :-))
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This vessels deck was never planked so I thought why not --- know I know why! cutting planking around the bulwark posts is a real pain#@&### after I got it all nice and sanded No 3 daughter gently pointed out that it looked nice enough to grace an Admiral's Barge but a bit out of place on a 13 century warship--- Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr '#&3#@???
So now I have started gouging, bashing and distressing it (Don't you hate it when they are right)
(http://s4.postimage.org/stajx2qs/Foc_le_planked.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/stajx2qs/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/sth62gpw/Poop_Planked.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sth62gpw/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/stns7up0/Main_deck_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/stns7up0/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/str3ajok/Main_deck_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/str3ajok/)
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I had a PM asking how I make the ring bolts ---Basicly I get a bit of copper wire and wrap it around the shank of a small phillips screw driver like a spring - then pull the driver out and cut the rings, if they are to be working bolts I soulder them and use a small split pin as a shank ... if you put the split pin through the deck and spread it it will take a lot of weight
Jimmy
(http://s1.postimage.org/2knjkxflw/Blacking_edges.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2knjkxflw/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2kodclohw/Making_Ring_bolts.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2kodclohw/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2kp8rt9vo/Planking_main_deck.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2kp8rt9vo/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2kpnnnebo/Fore_Hatch.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2kpnnnebo/)
Jimmy
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Hi Jimmy,
What was that old saying?
"out of the mouths of babes"
Keep up the good work, is it the planks which are distressing or the fact that your dear grand-daughter was right.
You'll fix it to look right, and anyway looks good to me.
cheers
kiwi
ok2
ps them's ring bolts look good, will try them on my next build
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Kiwi, Old trick ,the ring bolts, I use them all the time to lash blocks too, you can make them any size by using different size screw drivers as a mold, copper wire is best or maybe I should say, easiest to use and solder (Just saw I didn't spell check that last one "Blast") I use brass (When I can get them) split pins for the working ones, as they don't pull out under a load, and just a "u" shaped bit of wire on the ones that are just for show
Right time to show how I made the hull I'm using a corn flake box for the construction so the keel, stem and stern posts will be laminated of 3 bits of card and unlike a wooden keel will not have a keelson ...I use a lot of paper clips (Marvelous invention for model boaters very under rated)as clamps, you can bend them into all kinds of shapes ---I'm not going to try to make this neat and tidy but show my way of doing it I 32nd or 64th ply or how you can make ships boats (A4 stiff paper)
Remember this hull will be built with out frames or a mold ,,,Frames if needed can be added later
Jimmy
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hcxgmi2s/Corn_flakes_box.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hcxgmi2s/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hdfnjbic/Stern_post.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hdfnjbic/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hdxug4xw/Centre_keel.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hdxug4xw/)
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(http://s3.postimage.org/2hejcfnd0/3_bits_of_the_keel_ready_to_glue.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hejcfnd0/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hfi2pxqc/centre_keel_half_inch_wide.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hfi2pxqc/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hfwyk26c/3_Bits_glued_together.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hfwyk26c/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hga6uu4k/Paper_clip_clamps.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hga6uu4k/)
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The centre of the keel, stem & stern posts sits proud so it can act as a rebate to glue the planks to
The garboard strakes (Planks next to the keel) are next they are the only planks that do not taper toward the ends
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hkqlzi10/Cutting_garboard_s.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hkqlzi10/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hktx270k/st_gatboard_glued_to_keel.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hktx270k/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2hkx84w04/Garboard_plank_overlap.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hkx84w04/)
Don't know if you can see how the paper clips have been bent to hold the plank at 90deg. to the keel ...This plank is only glued in the centre 2/3as when the glue dries the planks will be twisted and glued to the stem & stern posts and to the rest of the keel
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Loving it! :-))
Andy
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HI JIMMY; what great post , i still say theres a book in you, :-))
by the way launched BLACK ROSE, went quite well until hit a cross wind , then turned into a sub.
not enough lead on false keel. Must work on making deck access hatches more water tight O0 LARRY,....
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Larry have you thought of adding a periscope? Joking aside did you recover the Rose OK ? I don't suppose you have photographic evidence? Oh well better luck next time
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY, sorry mate no time for photos ,to busy recovering good job it was at arms and a shallow pool ,
and the good news no damage,, but the sail control worked , O0LARRY
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(http://s4.postimage.org/14n24pjj8/Centre_of_plank_glued_to_keel.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/14n24pjj8/)
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Glad of the no damage, these gusts are bad news for square riggers even on the full sized ships you have to be ready to shiver the sails when a gust hits and never turn into the wind but turn down wind and let her pick up speed (on a full sized square rigger you risk taking the spars out of the ship if you get caught aback ---in a model its almost allways a capsize ... I water proof my hatches with Vaseline or petroleum jelly
Sailing square riggers is not like sailing a fore and after, if you get a gust of wind in a fore & aft rig you let fly and turn into the wind... on a square rig shiver the after sails [Main & Mizzen] square the fore sails and get her before the wind.... one of the golden rules is shorten sail before you need too (Reef down or take the the T'Gallants and Top Sails off )
Jimmy
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Weather from the met office (Free)
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/surface_pressure.html
1) shipping forecast click on the area close to where you live ie: Humber for Norfolk
For local forecast, on left side of page, click on pressure forecast map, then click on UK Forecast (left hand side of page)
A small map of UK (RAC) should come up , Click on the area of the map where you live, select the time , date and info you require
Jimmy
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Carring on with the planking --- The garboards have been partly glued to the keel (The ends have not yet been glued) so know we twist the garboards mark cut and glue them. this is the hardest job if it goes wrong start again
(http://s2.postimage.org/pfv3ip44/garboards_attached_to_keel_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pfv3ip44/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/phvv5yuc/Garboards_attached_to_keel_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/phvv5yuc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/pj2v4zok/twisted_into_position.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pj2v4zok/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/plgv31d0/Vew_showing_twist.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/plgv31d0/)
more to come
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THANKS JIMMY, for info on weather, nice to see you carrying on with cereal {-) build sorry for pun .
got my printer at the ready, :-)) LARRY......
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Print Away----
(http://s4.postimage.org/1g022cc2s/cutting_to_rebate.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1g022cc2s/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1g0gy6gis/Top_vew_before_glue.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1g0gy6gis/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1g0xhjxgk/Top_vew_glued_in_place.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1g0xhjxgk/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1g1ny5hd0/Stern_vew.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1g1ny5hd0/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1g1w7u7tw/Stem_post_fitting.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1g1w7u7tw/)
More tomorrow Jimmy
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Next 2nd & 3rd planks This is all very easy just clip the plank in position mark and cut the ends always start glue in the centre of the plank and keep at least 1/8" (inch) overlap in the centre . at the ends you can overlap a bit more--- "but never less" try to keep the planking on the opposite side level
(http://s1.postimage.org/edo3u4ck/2nd_planks_cut.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/edo3u4ck/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/edrewtc4/2nd_plank_clamped_in_place.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/edrewtc4/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/edwdiutg/2_cut_plank.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/edwdiutg/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/eeb9cz9g/Marking_2nd_plahk_for_cutting.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eeb9cz9g/)
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(http://s1.postimage.org/eejj1pqc/stem_post_before_glueing.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eejj1pqc/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/eeq573pg/3rd_plank_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eeq573pg/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/ef02f6o4/marking_3rd_plank.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ef02f6o4/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/efdapymc/3rd_plank_clamped_and_glued.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/efdapymc/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/efey9b44/marking_3rd_plank.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/efey9b44/)
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(http://s1.postimage.org/efvhms1w/Progress_so_far.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/efvhms1w/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/eg23s610/progress_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eg23s610/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/eg8pxk04/progress_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eg8pxk04/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/eggzmah0/vew_along_the_lands_Edges.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eggzmah0/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/egu7x2f8/vew_of_3rd_plank.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/egu7x2f8/)
Bilge strake tomorrow Jimmy
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sorry new capstan to be mounted
(http://s1.postimage.org/twc6dls4/New_capstan_motor.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/twc6dls4/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/twr27q84/new_motor.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/twr27q84/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/twudaf7o/shaft_through_hatch.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/twudaf7o/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/twxod478/motor_mounting_blocks.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/twxod478/)
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(http://s1.postimage.org/txawnw5g/base_of_barrell_showing_choc_box.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/txawnw5g/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/txe7ql50/capstan_on_shaft.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/txe7ql50/)
Barrell is made from a from a small wooden drawer knob
(http://s1.postimage.org/txur422s/in_position.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/txur422s/)
sorry about the change Bilge planks tomorrow (I Hope)
Jimmy
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At last The Bilge Strakes (Planks) the bilge strakes are the first planks that start the pronounced curve of the planking up toward the sheer strake (Last plank at the Wale [Gunwale top of the ships side]) Depending how horizontal the garboards are and how curved the bilge strakes this will make the vessel flat floored and beamy or narrow and sharp I've done this card model fairly sharp like a whaler so I can use it as a ships boat but as you see no frames or ribs were used in the shaping of the Hull shall put two more strakes in then the ribs and the box gunwale so a few more days yet (No#1 Granddaughter permitting)
(http://s1.postimage.org/20t534vpg/before_cutting.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/20t534vpg/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/20toxl1ms/Bilge_Strake.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/20toxl1ms/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/20vj32xdw/Bilge_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/20vj32xdw/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/20xvfhmkk/cut_glued.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/20xvfhmkk/)
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(http://s1.postimage.org/21fxdp0n8/Showing_the_curve.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/21fxdp0n8/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/21bqvsfpg/Both_strakes_in_position.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/21bqvsfpg/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/21k76oakk/Strake_in_position.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/21k76oakk/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/21mwrdrpg/top_vew_showing_natural_curves.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/21mwrdrpg/)
more later Jimmy
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Sorry about the delay
(http://s2.postimage.org/1f8e2epyc/first_rib.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1f8e2epyc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1f8kok3xg/first_Rib_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1f8kok3xg/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1f8uls6w4/all_rib_s_fitted.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1f8uls6w4/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1f966jmck/In_wales_fitted.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1f966jmck/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1f9hrb1t0/both_inwales.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1f9hrb1t0/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1f9odgfs4/finished_hull.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1f9odgfs4/)
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OK thats this exercise is almost completed (I'll just give it an under coat) As I said at the start this is the way I build a clinker hull, this works on cardboard hulls up to 30" (inches) long and I 've built built a sailing Viking (Dragon) ship that was 52" long from 32nd and 64th ply, this is to the best of my knowledge is still sailing after 26 years. These hulls are very strong, the card ones when given 6 to 8 coats of varnish ring like a bell when tapped with a finger nail and have lasted over 20 years as child's toys... I rest my case....
I am hoping to finish Dragons Bane's refit in the next week or so ( working on the brace winch controls ) many thanks for all the interest and the e-mails
Jimmy {:-{
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Card boat under coated
(http://s4.postimage.org/2mlk5ho4k/under_coat_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2mlk5ho4k/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2mlsf6elg/under_coat_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2mlsf6elg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2mlz1bskk/under_coat_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2mlz1bskk/)
OK I shall call this build closed ...It took just over 7 hrs (including photos ) building time and most of that was waiting for the glue to dry as I said its very easy to do and can be a nice model ---but as I also said this is only a rough model to show how its done, if you have any questions ask away and I'll do my best to answer
How --- on with Dragons Bane!
Jimmy
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Hi Jimmy,
Very neat method.
I used card to make the wee boat on my Black Rose. Was surprised at how easy it was, and how strong it became after painting.
Will try your method on a few more boats in the future.
Thanks so much for the build feature.
regards
kiwi
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hi JIMMY, what a great feature and so easy to follow ,by the way i also made my crew boat on my black rose as well
bit not as good as yours or kiwis.......
(http://s3.postimage.org/1akwky6pw/black_rose_050.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1akwky6pw/)
will have a go at another model when i find some thing suitable ....LARRY...
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Right Jimmy the theory of how you build your boats is quite straightforward. Cut accurately
all the planks and overlap them the same amount and you should have a nice hull BUT if I did it, I would have
two perfect half hulls that would assymetric. How do you make the hull so it is the same on both sides.
That is the hard part. Do you you some kind of former or blank to mould it over??
Geoff
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Geoff,
when you plank up you allways do two planks at a time one on each side, even the planks up by eye and you won't go far wrong
believe me its a lot harder to describe it to someone than it is to do it
Larry
I've had a lot more practise then you have, the "Rose" looks very good and as for the Boat It looks very like a punt (not the punting on the river type) which was a working boat still used as a tender on the island traders in the Caribbean
Kiwi
Nice looking jolly boat -- yes it is a very strong way to build.
Thanks for the kind words all of you. I'm happy I could help out. I'll be carring on with Dragons Bane --Pix in a day or so
Jimmy
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THANK YOU JIMMY, best of luck on your next build , your no 1 fan LARRY......... :-))
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Pix of the out riggers ,(carry the sheets clear of the ships side) fair leads and Old Men (Sailors slang for a roller fair lead set on a post) (Sheets the lines used to control the set of a sail) ..... As this vessel only spreads a single square sail and the mast is set rather far foreward I've adopted a combined sheet and brace to get her closer to the wind (More of this later)
Jimmy
(http://s2.postimage.org/lxkscisk/Sail_lowered.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lxkscisk/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/lxwd3y90/Sail_part_lowered.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lxwd3y90/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/ly1bpzqc/2_part_yard.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ly1bpzqc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/lyb8y2p0/outriggers_Fair_lead_Old_men.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lyb8y2p0/)
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Part 2
(http://s3.postimage.org/j5hga404/Close_hauled.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j5hga404/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/j5o2fhz8/rigging_leads.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j5o2fhz8/)
I will cover the standing and running rigging shortly,. No one really knows how these vessels were rigged and not having a crew I'm rigging as I think best using the capstan
the rigging will be simple 1 each fore stay & back stay, 2 shrouds one to port , one to strb'd. there will be only one Halyard in the centre of the yard (which is two spars lashed togeather) there will also be two lifts to keep the yard arms level ....and of course the sheets to control the sail
Jimmy
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Some very rough drawings of the running and standing rigging.... I use hatters elastic (Like sheering elastic but heaver and stronger in black or white) it provides the needed tention on sheets but doesn't hit you in the eye like ordinary elastic bands would, and is long lasting (2 or 3 years { I have one boat which it has lasted over 5 years })
I will try to get some detailed photos of the rigging...Blocks ,,,dead eyes ,,,,out riggers and so on later today
Jimmy
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(http://s1.postimage.org/j4lzrd38/Rigging_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j4lzrd38/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/j50vlhj8/Rigging_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j50vlhj8/)
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As usual Captain Jimmy ;D great explanations........thank you...& we can see you are again economising with printing or drawing on both sides of each page...... O0 {-) ....Derek
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(http://s3.postimage.org/vpul8ipw/Aft_out_rigger.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vpul8ipw/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/vq4iglok/Forw_d_out_rigger.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vq4iglok/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/vqq0g43o/Base_of_mast_lifts_halyard.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vqq0g43o/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/vr6jtl1g/Double_yard_lashings.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vr6jtl1g/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/vrjs4czo/Fighting_top.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vrjs4czo/)
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(http://s3.postimage.org/w0tuogqs/carstan_fairlead.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/w0tuogqs/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/w1lytd50/Early_dead_eyes.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/w1lytd50/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/w1xjkslg/Shroud_dead_eyes.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/w1xjkslg/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/w2e2y9j8/Hatters_elastic.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/w2e2y9j8/)
Tonight I'll draw up diagrams for the sheet/braces leads ...Then there is the ballast keel to do ... Then if the Gods will kindly provide some suitable W/x and if Howes deliver the R/x & servos & de switch harness & if my magic picture box still works (lot of if's an't it) I might be able to post some pix of her sailing "IF" all goes ti plan.
Jimmy
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Derick W.
Rrrr! Lad, me old Mother all ways told me "Waste not - Want not"...Now I bet that will be a surprise to some (That I had a mother that is) as the rumours going round that I didn't, but was hatched in the bottom of an old rum bottle on the Spanish Main ,now this is clearly not true as I could never fit in a rum bottle (I know I've tried) BUT maybe a keg???
Hic!!!
Jimmy
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The two coils of black & white are Hatters Elastic (so called because it is used in the making of hats & bonnets) It comes in 5 or 6 sizes the one displayed is a medium one , The pens , etc: are to give you an Idea of scale,,, the lanyards on the dead eyes are the smallest size,,,this is handy as you can stretch the lanyards to undo the hooks on the stays & shrouds and allowes the mast to be unshipped... I use a lot of it in rigging where tention and strength is needed it normanly lasts 3 to 5 years on my boats and it is basicly a heavy weight sheering elastic :-))
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY what is soures of haters elastic? BLACK ROSE sailed better lead on keel, i will make main sails to adjust by adding adjustable bowsies, LARRY...
(http://s1.postimage.org/vou63qbo/black_rose_edited_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vou63qbo/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/vpplbbpg/black_rose_edited_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vpplbbpg/)
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Larry
Hatters elastic ... In Lynn I buy it from the Fent Shop,,, a Shop which sells cloth,and dress making gear, needles, thread,ribbons, buttons,etc: Habadashery is the word I'm looking for ask SHMBO she should know of such a shop around your way.
Jimmy
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Larry
The "Rose " is gliding along nicely I can see I shall have to look to my Laurels.. Better than hiding in the reeds isn't it , A very famous Lady once said," If you've got it Flaunt it". Well done..... Will she tack ? or have you tried yet?
Jimmy
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thanks jimmy ,i have had her on steady tack , but loose the drive when it spills from the mains, As i said its back on slip for a bigger main sail and adjustable sheets LARRY
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Back to "Dragons Bane"
Here are two rigging diagrams the top one is the one I used mainly because the mast is set a bit too far forward
The 2nd Is the one I usuale use on my square riggers and it can help get a vessel 1/2 a point to a point closer to the wind (5.5 deg. to 11 1/2 deg.) and helps you sail faster as it hauls the Luff tight making a more efficient Aerofoil
(http://s4.postimage.org/2bzj0x12c/Sheets_braces_bowlines.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2bzj0x12c/)
Next will be the ballast keel which I intent to keep as simple as I can make it (Sheet lead)
Jimmy
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Larry
I think that mizzen top sail is putting her out of balance. try sailing her with only the lateen mizzen (Maybe even inlarge it a bit ) you might gat better control
JJ
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Like This
(http://s4.postimage.org/2c87lhmec/Early_FD_Deck_lay_out.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2c87lhmec/)
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY , thank you for reply , i have a little problem knowing what sail is which , being a beginner i struggle with sail knowledge, .......
sorry to be a burdan but could you put one of supper sketches to guide me whats what LARRY THE PAIN IN THE BUM ... {-)
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Keep asking Larry :-)), I'm reading Jimmys threads and don't have the foggiest and am really interested :}, so you're stopping me from looking too stupid {-).( I am however very aware that you know more than me so I will have to make some enquiries eventually :embarrassed:)
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Larry & Grub
One of the reasons I run this thread is to help people Like you, Not every one is as lucky as I am, I started sailing when I was 5 years old and started getting payed for sailing when I was 12 years old on large yachts and small square riggers in the summer Ho l's ,Being a Navy Brat I sailed all over the world I have been in 2 Navy's, the North Atlantic fishing fleet (steam trawlers from Hull in the Ist cod war) Merchant navy mostly tramps but some ferries and regular runners, Sail Training ships , and Survey and Salvage ships so after 50+ years at sea I can very often help people with the odd problem (and I don't mind being ask questions) so Ask away and I will do my best to answer)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2holny9ic/Sails.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2holny9ic/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2hooz0yhw/Sails_by_name.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2hooz0yhw/)
Hope this helps you
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY , if we ever meet the drinks are on me. by the way i was in Hull in ,,the 50 s as a regular in 3 dragoon guards instructor with east riding yeomanry .
so i new it well when it had a fish dock at hesle and a active working merchant dock , and paddle ferry to grimsby at bottom of the land of green ginger,
and the girls where a challenge at the local dance at Beverly road baths to a live band had many enjoyable last dance.... :-))...LARRY
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I new the place well ,In those days The hands brought their own bedding (Usually a donkeys breakfast and 2 or 3 blankets) and their own Boots and Oilskins (thigh boots and an oil skin frock & South Wester) they also brought all their own cold weather gear 2or 3 woolly jumpers 2 pair of mole skin trousers and 3 pair of boot socks was the min.
It used to get a bit chilly (-20 -30) hauling nets and gutting fish on the open deck North of Iceland in the middle of winter the worst of it was that it was allways dark. You worked 15 & 5 (15 hrs on deck 5 hrs watch below ) the hands lived in the foc'le a triangle shaped space with 20 bunks around the bulkheads (double banked)the only heat was an old pot belly iron stove. No HS&E in those days 3 to 4 weeks at sea 60 hrs in port and off to do if again---What price Fish & Chips
http://cocatrez.net/Water/RC_SquareRiggers/RC_SquareRiggers.html
try this web site, its square rigged sailing models and how to do it
Jimmy
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In a Bout of Madness I fitted out the cardboard boat we built with a beam shelf inner and outer Wales and Thwarts
To non Nautical people
Thwarts (Seats)
Beam Shelf (a plank fastened to the inside of the boat for the Thwarts to rest on. )
In & Out Wales (Reinforcing Planks used to strengthen the Sheer strake inside & out side.)
Sheer Strake (Top plank or plate in the Hull. )
(http://s4.postimage.org/3rvehjok/Fitting_Wales.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3rvehjok/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/3s20mxno/Fitting_wales_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3s20mxno/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/3s5bpmn8/Fitting_a_thwart_Seat.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3s5bpmn8/)
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(http://s4.postimage.org/3sf8xplw/Varnishing.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3sf8xplw/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/3sik0elg/Varnishing_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3sik0elg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/3sk7jr38/4_Coats.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3sk7jr38/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/3ssh8hk4/The_Shambles_or_the_Boat_yard.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3ssh8hk4/)
I wasn't going to finish this boat but fate intervined, the servos , R/X & switch harness I orderd have gotten lost in the post and I had to do something
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY. what a work shop , i thought mine was a jumble ,but yours looks more business like , great boats in there got any plans , LARRY .......
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Sorry Larry
I carry the plans in my head, other than the odd boat built to order ( And I've stopped doing that now) I only build boats for myself , when the old boat yard gets full I sell one or two off to make room But because I build types of ships and I build them to sail my model ships are not to scale . In fact when people ask me the scale of my ships I tell them they are back seat scale If they press it I tell them the Truth they are built to fit on the back seat of my car.And I never work to a plan but to a Picture ,Photo,
painting or just to an idea and I build to eye not to scale It's like that little clincher boat on this thread I cut the bits out glued them togeather. no plans. no measurements
If it looks right on a ship it normally is right
Jimmy
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Larry
As for my work shop I started out as just my work shop and boat stow ...But then I used to go away to sea for 3 or 4 months and come home to a junk store, I've got 3 grown up Daughters who think that empty work tops should be covered and floor space should be filled with boxes ,Bikes and old furniture...Nature arbores a vacuum... women abore empty shelves and Floor space...Or so I beleve
Jimmy
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Have connected the servos to De Rx and the Rx to De batteries ,,,De winch to De batteries and wrapped the sheet around the capstan and ----"Wait 4 it"---- switched on and Guess What,,,, Wrong !...nothing happened ....Quick check ....every thing is plugged in ...no loose connections????? OPPS!!!! whats that black hole in the Rx???? you guested it first time No Crystal ...Gurrr! Right swiched on again And.... it alll Works ...All ye of little faith... simple Ballast keel to make, 2 lbs of lead bolted to the keel
Now if the Gods will be kind and talk to the winds sailing and Pix on Sunday
Freebooter
If not, its triles at Whicksteed
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Some Pix of rigging and temp keel , but first the Dimensions some of you have been asking for remember shes only a small ship
LENTH OA 28", BEAM 9", L WATER LINE 25", DRAUGHT (EXTREAM) 3.5",FREEBOARD 1 3/4 ", MAST 20", HIGHT OA 26.5", WEIGHT (TOTAL) WITH BATTERIES 4.5 LBS
FOR ALL YOU NON NAUTICAL PEOPLE I refer to a vessel being on the port tack or the starboard (Stb'd) tack ---- A vessel on the stb'd tack has the wind on her stb'd (Right )side, all sails, flags and pendents stream away toward the port side , the vessev will also heel to port (Left side) as a general rule of thumb the vessel on the stb'd tack has the right of way (but there are exceptions) A vessel on the port tack has the wind comming over her port (Left hand) side and the sails, flags & pendents stream away to stb'd she will also heel to stb'd ---- Heeling , A vessel Heels over if the wind blows her over or she makes a sharp turn ----LISTING A vessel has a list if she is not ballasted correctly and leans to one side
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y2d4td2c/Temp_Keel_2lbs_lead.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y2d4td2c/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y2i3fejo/Keel_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y2i3fejo/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y2qd450k/Running_rigging_3_turns_on_capstan.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y2qd450k/)
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(http://s2.postimage.org/1y3xd35us/capstan_3_turnes_only.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y3xd35us/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y4xqwspw/out_rigger_and_old_man_fair_lead.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y4xqwspw/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y57o4vok/close_hauled_port_tack.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y57o4vok/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y5kwfnms/angle_of_yard_port_tack.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y5kwfnms/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y6bd17j8/elastic_section_to_keep_tenstion.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y6bd17j8/)
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(http://s2.postimage.org/1y6wv0pyc/close_hauled_std_b_tack.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y6wv0pyc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y827geas/angle_of_yard_close_hauled_stb_d_tack.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y827geas/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y8ah54ro/port_tack.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y8ah54ro/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y8ds7tr8/stb_d_tack.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y8ds7tr8/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1y8h3aiqs/Temp_for_d_out_rigger.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1y8h3aiqs/)
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Hopefully I shall get her in the water Thur or Sun and sort out any bugs . Before she only had a Jell-cell battery for ballast and was about 2 lbs heaver I'm hoping with more modern batt's and external ballast keel I shall get away with the lighter weight, it remains to be seen if I will have to add more weight or move it slightly fore or aft
for those of you who know Port from Stb'd Sorry but even in my own club some people resist tradition and common sense, people still ask me why port and stb'd why not left and right like the Yanks the answer is something the Yanks don't have ---"over Two Thosand years of Tradition "
A short history lession for you
Many years ago before even I was born British and Europen ships had side rudders ( like Viking ships) not rudders hung on the stern like today the rudder was hung on the right hand quarter and this was known as the steer board side of the ship over the centuries it got corrupted to starboard side ... because seaman did not wish to damage the rudder they used to tie up in harbour and lay along side on the opposite side and this was called the layaboard side --- It became corrupted to larboard side and some time in the 16th /17th century it became the port side (the side to be to the port or harbour) as a point of interest most modern single screw ships still prefer to go port side too as the transverse thrust of the propeller aids them to do it
Right I shall now take my mortar board off and hope this has helped some of you
Freebooter
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(http://s2.postimage.org/22j75bdyc/Ballast_test.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22j75bdyc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/22jiq2tes/Name_board.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22jiq2tes/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/22jqzrjvo/Small_pond.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22jqzrjvo/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/22jz9gack/lurking_for_a_prize.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/22jz9gack/)
Sailing Pix Next the Gods Permitting
Jimmy
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Sailing on the lake Hunting Dragons
(http://s1.postimage.org/2q136gais/Soldier_s_wind.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2q136gais/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2q1852c04/Ghosting_along.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2q1852c04/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2q1i2aeys/tacking.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2q1i2aeys/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2q1rzihxg/Broard_reach.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2q1rzihxg/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2q1ylnvwk/puff_of_wind.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2q1ylnvwk/)
Sorry no close ups my camara man didn't have any boots
Jimmy
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:-))
Full of character - a lovely looking boat!
Andy
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Thanks Andy
Glad you like her
Jimmy
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This is a very informative & educational posting Captain Jimmy O0 .....thank you
"Many years ago British and Europen ships had side rudders ( like Viking ships) not rudders hung on the stern like today the rudder was hung on the right hand quarter and this was known as the steer board side of the ship over the centuries it got corrupted to starboard side ... because seaman did not wish to damage the rudder they used to tie up in harbour and lay along side on the opposite side and this was called the layaboard side --- It became corrupted to larboard side and some time in the 16th /17th century it became the port side (the side to be to the port or harbour) as a point of interest most modern single screw ships still prefer to go port side too as the transverse thrust of the propeller aids them to do it"
In our Paddleducks web site we have random opening images & one is of the same medival vessel with the rudder on the STDB side
I will ask our new PD controller/moderators if we can get access to the PD random opening images [files] ... & provide this back.......Derek
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Derek
the stern hung rudder is a bit of artistic license on my part and also to make the ship hander as I have tried side rudders before (If you are on the Stb'd tack and heeled over the side rudder is almost out of the water so very poor control ) Any way my argument is that the builder of this mighty vessel used a stern hung rudder ( Me) and so far nobody can prove that they were not in use at the time of this ship .. {:-{...The first account of a stern rudder is on a Medieval coin but how long were they in use before this coin was minted. Nobody knows, so maybe I am historically correct--- :} :-))
Jimmy
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Derek
Any Info you can give would be gratefully received, I think this is an area of model boating that is neglected because there are not a lot of kits or Evan plans of this time .
For myself I think this is great as no one can say for sure that I'm wrong and it gives me a great deal of freedom and as I don't often build to plans and haven't built a kit in donkey's years ----well---it's building to pictures, paintings, sketches and ideas that suite's my quirky way of building So any info from you or P.D. would be welcome.
Freebooter.
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How is this Jimmy?.........Derek
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...the stern hung rudder is a bit of artistic license on my part
Not sure it is, Jimmy.
I've read a lot about ships of the 13th century - it's easy, 'cos there's there's not much to read! - and what you find is:
Cogges (cogs) like the Bremen one, always have stern rudders, but they're the ships of the Hanseatic League, always portrayed with straight stems, and date from around the 1250s in the Low Countries and onwards. Sharp bilges, clinker sides but carvel floors.
Nefs, like yours, are the "traditional" Viking-inspired clinker craft craft of England in the earlier 13th century, growing fore-castles and aft-castles over time, and they have - from the evidence of wax seals - side rudders initially, or stern rudders from about 1250 onwards. Now, it's clear that many of these seals are used to portray the "ancient" sea-faring nature and tradition of the ports they represent, so it may be that side rudders, which had presumably died a death in the early 13th century, are viewed as "time-honoured" and therefore worthy of representing - even though the stern rudder might have been in "constantly daily use".
I'll post a few seal images if there's any interest?!
Andy
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Andy
Thanks for the offer.I would very much like to see them...Cheeky women .. one of my Granddaughters just came skipping in and ask what i was doing when I told her she blithely said thats not as old as you granddad ( she's not quite 4 yet) and skipped out again.....Grrrrr!!!
Derek
Neat little craft ...Sort of a barge with paddle wheels... Any plans to build it ...Keep you out of mischief for a month or two... {:-{ :} :-))
Jimmy
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Captain Jimmy >>:-( the image portrays more :o ...it has been a number of years since I studied the image ...... >:-o
1. the souls on the quarter deck appear as mere covered skeletons
2. there is a bird above the souls in the foredeck....is the bird offering a twig of life?
To me this deSchelde vessel image is depicted as a death ship.......... with a STDB rudder :-X
Derek
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HI JIMMY , just back holiday on I. O .W nice break , so just caught up with link i see you screwed a lead ballest as temp keel , does this work or would you prefer a extended keel
ballest weight ,, ??......... NICE MODEL BY THE WAY .............LARRY :-))
(http://s3.postimage.org/19wf5aibo/DSC8851.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/19wf5aibo/)
black rose keel NOT HAPPY WITH SET UP,,,, {:-{
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Larry
I'm still in the test stages we managed to get those few snaps but it was too gusty for a real sail but I think I will need another half a Pound of lead and will have to reinstate the extention on the rudder as she was very slow to answer the helm ....I don't want to bolt on a big keel as this could have a detrimental effect ( this sort of hull is actually a planing hull "not like a motor boat"the lands of the planks (over lap) tend to trap air under the hull and lubricate it allowing the hull too go faster than normal (this is a well known phenomenon on Replica Viking Ships which often reach speeds of 16, 17 or 18 kts) and they also help to steady the vessel. I have sailed on 3 or 4 of the long ships in Norway and they are very slippery, I have also sailed on a Sixeering a traditional lug rigged Shetland fishing boat (6 oared clinker 30 foot open boat) she sailed so fast the lee rail was often 8" to 10" below the surface of the water but none came on board because of the speed. The trouble is if you put too large a keel on a vessel the sideways movement can make the heeling angle worse this is why a lot of model racing boats have long narrow keels with the weight right at the bottom ,so they have the righting lever but not the water pressure on the keel.
Jimmy
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Derek
Are we looking at the same picture??? This paddle steamer's rudder to me seems to be hung on the stern post (the way the picture is done the curve leading to the stern post is not defined enough on the Stb'd side but the port side of the stern looks better ,...I can't see a bird up forward just a flag on the jack staff
and the figures on the after deck 'a bit thin perhaps but skeletons I think it is just the stile the painter used. mind you when I blew the picture up it wasn't very clear. But I don't beleve that any steam boats were ever built with a side rudder ---But could be wrong.
Thanks very much for showing it to me.
Jimmy
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In spite of the near gale this morning I managed to get some photos of her sailing ... for the Hawkeyed members , yes she has a safety-line made fast, the wind was 13 to 16 mph gusting 28 to 32mph and even sailing in the Lee of the bank (About 5 or 6 foot off) it was too risky to sail untethered.
Jimmy
(http://s3.postimage.org/pam2r2c/Fair_wind.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pam2r2c/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/pnudj0k/Hard_on_the_wind.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pnudj0k/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/qfyifes/Heeled_to_a_gust.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qfyifes/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/qwhvwck/Quartering.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qwhvwck/)
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HI JIMMY what a nice model you are a ace , the tether line is agood idea , for those hart stoping moments, {-).....LARRY....
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Had a few min's sail at Wicksteed with her but couldn't get any photos as the wind was too strong and she almost took off, someone said she was almost as fast as one of the fast electrics but looked better she was on a plane for a min or two... Good job I put the rudder extension on or I would never have been able to steer her
Jimmy
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Back on the home lake W.x NE'ly 1 to 2
(http://s2.postimage.org/1xog262n8/A_long_way_out.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1xog262n8/)
Handling well but have a small persistant leak
Jimmy
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Check Yachts & sail R&D , Brigantine Freebooter for tip's on ginger work
Jimmy
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Thanks Peter :-))
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Brian 86.... Who's Peter ???
Freebooter
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Peter Fitness, our Ozzie moderator <*< who corrected the spelling of the title of this post at my request, since the old spelling was getting at me. >>:-(
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Oh well , Your not the first person who told me I can't spell... O0 my wife and daughters are allways telling me about it {:-{ But mind you the spell check can't spell either
Freebooter :-)) O0
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I agree about the spell checker.
In the words from "My Fair Lady" - 'English' "The Americans have not spoken it for years"
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hi JIMMY , who cares how you spell , have seen the mobile texting the kids send,
i can under stand what you send , and it the best topic on the site i hope you are entered in maymer of the year ........larry... :-) :-)) O0 ;))
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Larry
Don't tell any one... maybe I'll slip through the net .... Martin has already put me on photo of the month --Again-- I'll be ducking and weaving for weeks....
Hows the "Rose" comming on ? Was that suggestion I made any help? I,ve replaced the fore yard I broke last week (I do more damage in transport than I ever do sailing)
and put a bit of thin walled brass tube around the end of the new yard and drilled it for the eyelets for the lifts, braces and bow lines "5 hrs work because 5 seconds laps of concentration....Grrrr
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY ,what bad luck, rose still in dry dock , its garden time, ....and awaiting for a plan of Thames sailing barge,
for next model, and trying to sell some models to make space and prop up the building fund........ :-)) ..LARRY...
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Larry
I know what you mean my work shop is full Mostly old and battered (Like Me ) But they sail well ...but they nest like pigeons in the rafters of my work shop ...I keep saying I wont build anymore ----but then someone offers me a hull, a photograph or a picture and its off to the races -------- sorry I was so long answering this but I'm having problems getting in the Mayhem wed site at times sometimes it can take me up to an Hr. for limited access
Right I off for my Tea
Jimmy
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HI JIMMY NICE TO FROM YOU at least you answer your mail , not like some of the others, send to to busy building and sailing i suppose {-)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2k4uq8z0k/2011_08_06_004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2k4uq8z0k/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/2k54nh1z8/2011_08_06_003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2k54nh1z8/)
having a sale of some i my motor models to get some building room, also having bash at THAMES SAILING BARGE KITTY. see snaps . cheers LARRY.....
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Shore! Didn't me pour old muther hammer into this great knot of Oak I call a head that if someone took the trouble to write you a note or send a letter it was only polite to reply ... I know politeness seams to be very low on many peoples agenda ...but it still rates high on mine
I've seen 1 or 2 of those Kitty Barges and it looks a tidy little model but as a very good friend of mine all ways says," it sails like a barge because it is a barge and a leopard can't change its spots" Anyway I've sailed on some real barges And I've never seen a black flag at the peak of any of them so they are no use to me.
Jimmy
(http://s3.postimage.org/1orhq550/Broard_Reach_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1orhq550/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1p32hklg/Barges.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1p32hklg/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1p6dk9l0/Barge_stern.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1p6dk9l0/)
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HI JIMMY , THANKS FOR PICTURES,,, i feel a another pirate moment coming on , when i get rid of sale boat yard,.......LARRY....
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Go for it Heres some more Barge Pix
(http://s3.postimage.org/1brohfhqc/DSCF1778.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1brohfhqc/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1brtg1j7o/w_11.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
You will have to take some pix of the Rose next time you sail her
Jimmy
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THANK YOU JIMMY, any tips on sail making? that's easy and cheap.....black rose is in dock at the moment LARRY
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Thanks To Martin and Tiger Tiger I think I am on line again
Larry did you get the Bumff on sail making and materials I sent
Jimmy
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Sorry it took so long Jimmy, it seems the forum will allow you to change and accept certain passwords but then not let use use them to login?!?! %%
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HI JIMMY , welcome back :-)) yes i got all the sail stuff , all have to do now is to learn how to use a sewing machine :embarrassed:
BLACK ROSE made a debut at a local model show on MMI stand. cheers LARRY..
(http://s4.postimage.org/2n4g33xyc/DSC9710.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2n4g33xyc/)
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Thanks Martin we got there in the end (i hope) I'm trying to type this while trying to fend off my 9 month old granddaughter from the key board sorry I had to call on TT to shake your tree But I was running short of options
Jimmy
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(http://s3.postimage.org/1zq1yfrgk/Wyverns_Square_top_sail.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1zq1yfrgk/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1zqngf9vo/shaking_out_the_top_sail.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1zqngf9vo/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1zraly4sk/Top_sail_clew_sheets_and_lifts.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1zraly4sk/)
The Rose looks good but I wouldn't put her on display to often, she might start thinking she's a mantle model and not a working model ... and can lead to a world of trouble
This is the first time Wyvern's top sail has been seen in about 8 or 9 months You don't have to go this far this is just to show you how you can make the stitching show up and Hi Lite the sail
Jimmy