Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: Patrick Henry on April 07, 2011, 08:51:38 am
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Anyone got a copy of the drawing as supplied for a Darnell Biber...scan, photocopy, original? It's mainly the rudder and dive plane instructions I'm in need of, how it goes together and connects up, etc. Photos would be great as well if possible.
All costs reimbursed, naturally...
Ta
Rich
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You ought to have a chat with Kevin, who posts on here as 'Hollowhornbear' (he of disappearing sub).
He's making the same boat, and doing a good job too. He's rebuilt the conning tower from plasticard, as the Darnell one was a bit out for his liking. He's also built a cylinder for all the guts.
Also worth looking at Rick Palumbo's 1/6th scale Neder thread http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29473.0
The torpedoes should bolt straight onto the Biber, assuming it's a true 1/6th scale, and Ricks are nicely detailed as you can see in the pictures on that posting.
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Oh ta...I'll pm him.
Rich
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Unfortunately it is not true 1/6 scale calculates at about 1 to 5.7 scale in other words awkward.
will look out the drawings in the next few days.
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Thanks Kev, much appreciated.
Rich
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pictures for you freshly taken.
(http://)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t8zk7uxw/biber1_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t8zk7uxw/)
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(http://)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t92vajxg/biber_648_x_486.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t92vajxg/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t94itwf8/biber3_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t94itwf8/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t966d8x0/biber4_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t966d8x0/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t97twles/biber5_450_x_600.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t97twles/)
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some more
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t9eg1zdw/biber2_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t9eg1zdw/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t9jeo0v8/biber5_450_x_600.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t9jeo0v8/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t9oda2ck/biber6_450_x_600.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t9oda2ck/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t9q0teuc/biber7_450_x_600.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t9q0teuc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1t9zy1ht0/biber8_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1t9zy1ht0/)
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That looks very nice Kev...very nice indeed. How have you organised the internal linkages?
Here's my wtc so far...
Thanks ever so much mate, I owe you one. A large one... :-))
(http://s2.postimage.org/1tavd936s/Image027a.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1tavd936s/)
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and a couple of the WTC
(http://s2.postimage.org/1tajshnqc/wtc_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1tajshnqc/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1taqen1pg/wtc1_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1taqen1pg/)
hope they help, will look out the drawings and instructions. early next week.
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best i can do for internal links, pics wise anyway
(http://s2.postimage.org/1tbiiry3o/biber10_600_x_450.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1tbiiry3o/)
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Terrific mate, they will help a lot. It's really the internal links to the rudder and plane that I need instructions on...the rest of it isn't too bad.
Thanks again...
Rich
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will try and sketch some thing up, you'll need a 90 degree bell crank for the dive plane.
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Ok mate, that would be a great help...another little job for my tame engineer, by the sounds of things.
Rich
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Neat installation, Mr Uggett. Just don't forget to remove the cardboard packing from around the heatsinks, and follow the instructions about not letting the pairs of heatsinks on the P93 touch each other. With that motor you could almost leave them off the ESC, but with no info on the pump current then best leave P93 alone.
DM
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Very neat installation. :-))
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Well, thank you gentlemen...most kind of you to say so.
The Action units will be left minus the cases to save room, and fear not DM...I'll not alter anything. End caps should be done tomorrow, then I crack on.
Rich
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The Action units will be left minus the cases to save room
Not recommended, Richard. This will leave the copper track (underside) of the units unprotected and therefore more susceptible to short-circuiting. Only leave the cases off if you really have no alternative.
DM
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Duly noted boss...perhaps I didn't explain myself properly. The units will be in the bottom of the cases, albeit trimmed down somewhat...because they are in a tube, they fit on the tray ok, but as the tube's diameter decreases at the top of it, the cases are too high and foul the tube sides. By trimming the case bottoms down a touch, I can get things to fit as in the photo. I was going to fit some of the units on the top and some under the tray, but the space underneath is reserved for the ballast tank, so that idea went out of the window.
Am I ok to stick the circuit boards into the case bottoms with double sided tape...ie, servo tape?
Rich
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What will you be using to pinch off the hose from the pump, or are you using a peristaltic?
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Nothing...and no.
It's a reversible pump...pump in/pump out.
Rich
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Unless the tank is vented e.g. not pressurized, the boat won't hold it's trim, as gear pumps leak and air pressure will push the water out. You'll be going up and down like a lavatory seat. If you want a simple solution get a peristaltic, that will work perfectly, but I'd recommend you also fit some sort of mechanical failsafe to avoid over pressure. The TT Neptune has pressure switch inline, which shuts the controller down once a certain pressure is reached. You can also get these from Norbert Bruggen as he uses them in his Delta sub kit.
Either that or make a small pinch valve. I passed details of small pinch valve I made for the Holland on to Kevin, it uses a small 9 gram servo, so it's small (didn't have room for normal size servo). Nigel had fitted a clippard valve originally which worked, but they're designed for gas not water, and the iron core is exposed to the water, so it was corroding.
The other option is a festo ball valve. I didn't have room for one of these, but they work very well. You have to modify the servo for 180 degree rotation and make a custom arm for the servo.
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I'll not be needing to take on a lot of water, so the pump won't really be working under that much pressure...I've tried the system and it works very well. I'm guessing that I'll only be filling the tank to approx 1/3rd of it's capacity, so I don't really want to add technical adornments....peristaltic pumps, valves etc. At the moment...
The Biber sits pretty low in the water to start with, so I only need to submerge to decks awash and then dive the boat from there...a sort of hybrid system.
A failsafe is a good idea in case of the pump jamming in the 'on' position....I'm working on one at the moment, based on a microswitch that will be tripped if the bag overfills and cuts the power to the pump.
Rich
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Well the Holland only has a very small ballast tank as the boat has very little freeboard, and it compresses the air into the main hull (dry hull) which is quite a large volume, so the pressure isn't high. Yet it wouldn't maintain trim at all with a partially leaking clippard valve. The bag was split too- so even less pressure!
Have you tried this system enclosed in the cylinder?
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Well, mine is a bag in a half round tube inside the cylinder...does that make sense?
It worked fine on bath tests....
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You're pumping water into a bag and that is constricted by a half round pipe enclosure. The air in the cylinder will be compressed as the bag fills. But this will push water out through the pump until the pressure equalizes.
If you want to do a simple test, grab a mouthful of water a blow it through a tube connected to the pump- you'll see it trickles out through the other side of the pump. Now an average fit person can only develop 1-1.5psi, and I'm asthmatic so my lungs aren't quite tip-top. You don't need to put much effort in BTW.
What's the size of tank in relation to the cylinder?
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Approx 2/3rds of the cylinder length, and half the diameter.
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So assuming you are only going to fill up a third of that you're looking at between 1.5-2 psi. If you fill it completely nearer to 5 psi. I would fit a valve, but it's your build.
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We seem to have wandered off topic...I only wanted a drawing for the Biber!
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Am I ok to stick the circuit boards into the case bottoms with double sided tape...ie, servo tape?
Rich
Better than nowt, but don't write the word "warranty" large and loud anywhere....................... %) (Just joking, Rich)
DM
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As if I would, chief... O0
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It all fits...just.
The space to the rear of the motor is reserved for the two mini servos to actuate the torpedo release mechanisms.
(http://s1.postimage.org/2edm3wmys/Image037.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2edm3wmys/)
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hi Rich,
will be hunting out the drawings, latter.
seeing you mention torpedo release, you do know their nearly 3" in diameter and not the 2" mouldings supplied.
putting it mildly their HUGE!!!
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Mornin' Kev...
Yes mate, Alf Blake is making them for me...they will release and drop, then off they will go in a straight line. They will have a power on/off button mounted in the nose, so when they hit a target it cuts the power off to the motor.
Thanks for helping out with the drawings, much appreciated..
Rich
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Oh no, not another king size torpedo wielding lunatic! Had enough of that with Dave Wright punching holes with his silicone bronze tipped WMD's (weapons of miniature destruction) at last years Summer Dive-in, and they were half the size. I've heard a whisper that Ramesh is planning counter-measures......
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These aren't really(?)that dangerous...although with Alfie wielding the lathe, anything can happen. They are only surface running though...
Rich
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so were Dave Wrights we thought. and they punched a nice hole in ramesh' typhoon!
King Size not the words KONG size more like they'll be close to the size of my elusive disappearing Seawolf! but cool 8)
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Well, you know what they say..."man with big torpedoes should be kept clear of...."
Rich
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to help with the detailing, i suggest you get hold of a set of John Lambert's drawing 3 sheets.
http://www.lambert-plans.com/ (http://www.lambert-plans.com/)
click warships then submarines scroll down.
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Got them already Kev....a nice man sent me a set. He's a very nice man.
A very very nice man.
Rich
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Well, you know what they say..."man with big torpedoes should be kept clear of...."
Rich
That reads a bit like a euphemism.
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Language, Timothy!
Rich
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Kevin is right, the torpedoes are big...
The one in the pic is 2.75" in diameter, which is still 0.25" too small. Off to B&Q later today...
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I know, had some finger slippage earlier scale if i calculated correctly is 1:6.8 or at least measuring my mouldings it is! this makes the torps 75mm or approxiamately 3" in dia.
not sure i'd want one of those running loose. not to mention the trim changes when launched. from the info available on the web, this was a problem as they used to pop to the surface on after launching the torps, were they where then sunk by surface fire from the ships they were attacking.
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That may well be a problem Kev, but at least I can claim it's a perfectly scale manoeuvre...
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It'll run a lot better minus the torpedos- it's like strapping a couple of 1/96th scale nukes each side of the hull- lot of drag.
I like the Italeri box art for this boat, looks like an underwater tiger. Not sure how authentic that colour scheme is, but I think it's nicer than boring old grey.
(http://s2.postimage.org/lccovbfo/Italeri_UBoat_Biber.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lccovbfo/)
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It's very authentic...see pic.
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how about this one?
(http://s2.postimage.org/p7esmu90/red_biber.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p7esmu90/)
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Well, it's certainly....different. I wonder what the rivet counters would make of THAT?
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What can they say photographic evidence, proves it exists. Would make seeing it submerged easier( before you chip in Andy) :-)
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Well, that's true...
No, please don't tempt me any further...
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Dont know how much this will help but Salvage squad restored one of these little beasties.Just go onto
youtube tap in Salvage squad, and look for midget submarine. Its an interesting film. Bit dramartized for tv
Hope this helps John.
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Thanks John, haven't seen that for a while...very interesting, as you say.
Rich
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all info foumd and in the post.
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Kev...you are a darlin', many thanks mate.
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not sure i like to be called a darling :embarrassed: people may start talking especially on here.
but your welcome you should hopefully have it tomorrow.
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Kev, you're a
an lov swee very nice man.
Thanks again, mate..
Rich
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Kev, you're a
an lov swee very nice man.
Thanks again, mate..
Rich
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What happened there?
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Kev...you are a true gentleman, mate. A large envelope just dropped through the letterbox....I'll get the drawing copied tomorrow(library is closed on Mondays...)and get the stuff posted back to you.
Many thanks mate...much, much appreciated.
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no problem, glad to help. any more pics of yours or are you too busy with your new toy.
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I'll do some more pics SAP, tomorrow it's off to my tame engineers to get the rudder posts made up. He's a handy man...
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like to see details of torps when they're available. not sure wether to go for torps on mine or not.
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As soon as the tube size is sorted, I'll get them off to Alfie and aks him to take a step by step photo build of them....if you remember seeing DW's torps on his Seehund, these will be fairly similar in design.
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All copied Kev...pm your address and I'll post them back to you.
Rich
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The wtc is now completed and it fits...and it works. The end caps are on their way back to Paul H to have 1mm shaved off all round, they were just a touch too big.
I was going to install a 12v 4.5a/h gel cell up in the bows, but it didn't fit (grrr!) so I've ordered a 12volt 3700a/h nicad pack specially made to fit the space available.
Flood holes are drilled, shaft is temporarily fitted, so next job is to make a start on the detailing of the conning tower, finish off the 'scopes, and then make up the few bits on the deck.
(http://s1.postimage.org/2xe5nkh38/DSCI0001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2xe5nkh38/)
I think I've worked out how to release the torpedoes, but that entails much brass work, so there's a job for my tame engineer. A friend in Bristol is getting the metal work that supports the rudder and rear dive plane made up for me, and as you know, Alfie is going to make the torpedoes operational.
Without the help of Alfie, Andrew Gray and his friend Terry, Dave at ACTion Electronics, Kevin Coombs, Ramesh, Andy Lawrence and Andy Oakley I wouldn't have even got this far with the build...I thank you all for your advice, assistance and hard work on my behalf.
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It's too hot to go sailing thisarvo, I have trouble drawing breath out there when it's hot like this, so I've been building some of the detail on the Biber's conning tower...
(http://s4.postimage.org/1kq2ux7c4/DSCI0009.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1kq2ux7c4/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1kq7tj8tg/DSCI0014.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1kq7tj8tg/)