Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Phantom1 on February 27, 2007, 09:01:52 pm
-
Hello everyone, i have joined to seek advise on what sort of power and setup i will need for my 45" powerboat, I built the plug/mould & boat myself and now ready to rig it.........any help much apreciated..
-
Phantom
Don't do anything with it - SELL IT TO ME!!!!!
Seriously, its got to be surface drive, and a geared racing 21 or a straight drive 45 in it.
Don't take any notice of that Martno1fan - he'll have you putting a sparky in it ;D
From the look of it, you take great pride in your work so the burning question is -
will you race it ???
Danny
-
Phantom
Don't do anything with it - SELL IT TO ME!!!!!
Seriously, its got to be surface drive, and a geared racing 21 or a straight drive 45 in it.
Don't take any notice of that Martno1fan - he'll have you putting a sparky in it ;D
From the look of it, you take great pride in your work so the burning question is -
will you race it ???
Danny
Hi ya Danny..
You cant have it, its mine!! (but if you were to twist my arm i could make you a shell in any colour you like!!!!)
surface drive sounds interesting.......
will i race it? mmmm, i'd like to give it a go, i am involved in Offshore powerboat racing but they are slightly larger powerboats.
cheers
Allan
-
Right Allan, lets get cracking.
Engines -
There's really only 2 types, CMB and the rest (I have a Novarossi 21 which is as quick as a CMB, but needs careful looking after).
CMB's are expensive and there are others (mainly Chinese) which are cheaper but still "pokey". The 45's can be used without gearbox so are easier to set up (and cheaper - the engine is more expensive but you save the cost of the gearbox).
Drive -
Submerged is cheaper but you get more lift at the back. This means the boat goes quick and corners well but is unstable (there are a FEW exceptions). Surface drive "looks" better and the boat can be set up to run dead flat but cornering suffers as they don't turn so tight. Surface is also SLIGHTLY easier to set up, but still needs extreme care when setting the shaft tube.
Exhaust -
No point in buying a good engine unless you use a tuned pipe. This can be "stuck out the back" like mine, or under deck if you've room. You will need a "quiet" pipe to keep under 80dB which is a strict rule.
Tank -
If you're going in for racing, there are 2 types, OMRA - where we race for up to 30 minutes per heat, which needs a big tank, or circuit (which is not as popular) and they only race for 8 laps so only need a small tank.
Radio -
Use at least 3 channels, one for rudder (using at least an 8kg servo), one for throttle (which must have a failsafe fitted) and one for mixture (as the tank lightens, the boat goes faster and runs leaner so needs adjusting - also easier to initially set up with).
There are a million and one other things but that will do for now.
It's decision time :D
Have a look at the OMRA website, go to Suppliers/Links. Dave Marles, Ian Folkson and Jon Wright are the main suppliers for our "toys".
Bet you thought you were going to get a bit of 'light relief' from the big boats - Ha ;D
Danny
PS Where's the canal?
-
wow, a lot to think about then!! :o
The boat as an empty shell weighs only 3.2kg's , is this too light ?
i dropped it on the canal today(Langley,B'ham) to see what aptitude she was at, it was a bit windy and when the wind copped her broadside she nearly went over! as she sits at the moment the outer chines are 3/4 inch out of the water, i am presuming that the same rule applies to models as full scale stuff, ie, chine at waterline at rest?
Better start collecting some bits then i reckon! :P
cheers
allan
-
Very nice! Dont usually like orange,but it looks awesome.Nice shape. I noticed you have come to model boats from full size, I have done it the other way round! I was going to build my own version of a Lesro Javelin but ended up building my Viper 2 seat mini boat, probably costing less than your model is going to cost,from what I have read so far! If I ever win the lottery,I am going to buy a CMB engine just to look at! I wanted a CMB 90 when I started doing model boats - 6HP! I ended up getting a Merco 61! Your boat looks good,keep us up to date as it progresses, most of all have fun,Andy M.
-
Hi Allan
A boat can NEVER be too light - unless it falls apart :D
As an example "Seaducer" 41" hulls are about 2 kilos.
http://www.seaducerboats.com/boatsgas.htm (http://www.seaducerboats.com/boatsgas.htm)
You can always put weight IN, but it takes a good belt sander to get it off again ;D
I'll try to get a photo of the insides of mine to give a rough idea of layout, different mounting practices (not THOSE ones) :D
Danny
-
cheers Andy, nice little boat there mate!
I build a 10ft mono single seater..........(photo below)
and our race boat last year 19ft with 200 horsepower bolted on the back!.....
-
Hi Allan
A boat can NEVER be too light - unless it falls apart :D
As an example "Seaducer" 41" hulls are about 2 kilos.
http://www.seaducerboats.com/boatsgas.htm (http://www.seaducerboats.com/boatsgas.htm)
You can always put weight IN, but it takes a good belt sander to get it off again ;D
I'll try to get a photo of the insides of mine to give a rough idea of layout, different mounting practices (not THOSE ones) :D
Danny
Danny,
i thought it just might be too light! perhaps not then!
yeah a photo of the layout of yours would be cool............
heres a few others....... ;D
-
Hi Allan
Finally made it to the garage - it's still too cold for me :)
Here's the layout for the 48"
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/omra85/CMB45topSmall.jpg)
I don't use the American system of two strips of ply up the middle (don't know what they call them) ???
They are cut out and the sides stiffened with a couple of pieces of grp sheet glassed in. This gives room for a big tank on the CB and a transverse radio box to keep the weight well back.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/omra85/AboatradioboxSmall.jpg)
The 43" is very similar as I tried to keep to the same layout - if it ain't broke, don't fix it ;D
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/omra85/AboattransomSmall.jpg)
I'd better stop there or MARTIN will "moderate" me - Ha, I've never been 'moderate' in my life - and I get worse as I get older ;D
Danny
-
hi allan m8 nice cover on that motor lol :) are boat was parked next to yours C57 :)
just outa intrest how much would you be lookin at for say a hull? in orange ofcourse lol ;D
cheers dan
-
hi allan m8 nice cover on that motor lol :) are boat was parked next to yours C57 :)
just outa intrest how much would you be lookin at for say a hull? in orange ofcourse lol ;D
cheers dan
Ah your Bob's son! hi matey.
a hull in orange will be £70. i would need about 3-5 days notice if you wanted one ;)
-
Danny,
cool pictures mate, thanks.
A few questions..........
Is the engine water cooled?
Is the tuned pipe water cooled?
Does the hatch have to have air intake on ?
the rudder is offset, what is the reason for this apart from the surface drive is in the way?
whats the fin on the starboard side transom?
and how fast do these boats go? ;D
cheers Dan
-
Hi Dan
In answer to your questions -
Is the engine water cooled?
Yes. it's fed by the rudder intake into the jacket up into the head then out.
Is the tuned pipe water cooled?
Yes. The pipe beside the prop feeds the manifold pic 3 - just under the starting belt) then into the pipe sleeve, then out.
Does the hatch have to have air intake on ?
Yes, it's painted the same black as the 'windscreen'. Its made from Aly mesh (Holts Fibreglass products from Halfords) which is resin pasted in. The 3 1/2 also has a deflector moulded in as the carb points upwards, so it stops water diving straight into the carb throat :(
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/omra85/AAairintakeSmall.jpg)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/omra85/AAsplashguardSmall.jpg)
the rudder is offset, what is the reason for this apart from the surface drive is in the way?
That's the way it was drawn on the plans :D Apparently it gives tighter turns and leaves less metal habging out the back to get smashed ;D
whats the fin on the starboard side transom?
That's a turn fin - without it, the boat does lovely 'power slides' round right handers but that's useless in a race as it's too unpredictable. It keeps the cornering tight but MUST be mounted dead straight fore and aft otherwise it creates drag!
and how fast do these boats go?
mine was clocked at 28 knots in open sea (mild swell) in the Brixham - Torquay race last year. Some would say they are FAR faster :o :o
(Feels more when you're chasing it in a rib) ;D
-
cheers Andy, nice little boat there mate!
I build a 10ft mono single seater..........(photo below)
and our race boat last year 19ft with 200 horsepower bolted on the back!.....
I think mine would fit inside your one!
-
phantom forget all of what hes told you mate and get a zenoah petrol engine the fuels cheaper the engines are easier to start and they are more reliable!!.speed is just as fast too ,you can get a zen from the usa for 130 quid delivered and they are beasts and sound great too.nitros about 16 to 20 quid a gallon by the way.that boat is crying out for a zen!!! ;D
-
What did I tell you (see second post, this thread) I think he's been drinking that fuel instead of putting it in a boat ;D ;D
Course, if you WANT to sound like your trying to launch a demented lawn mower and get used to your hands stinking for DAYS, then a sparky is just what you need ;D
Actually, they're not bad value and pretty reliable at the moment (but don't tell Mart I said so - I'll never live it down) ;)
Danny
-
Heres a demented lawn mower engine in full flight !!!,still want to go nitro? ;D
http://http://media.putfile.com/dave-marles-panther-with-zen-7
no its not mine but i just had to show it to you hehe i wants one !!
-
mmmm decisions decisions!!! ???
i think the first boat will have to be nitro, just to test the water so to speak! i have a bit of experience using nitro in cars so maybe a good starting point.
cheers for your help chaps, i'll be needing a lot more soon!!! ;D
-
its your choice mate but in my opinion petrol is easier to run and less hassle to start ,i have a .61 nitro boat and i hate starting em that size they have no pull start and you need to lug all the starting gear around lol.petrol engines have a nice easy to pull recoil starter. ;D
-
its your choice mate but in my opinion petrol is easier to run and less hassle to start ,i have a .61 nitro boat and i hate starting em that size they have no pull start and you need to lug all the starting gear around lol.petrol engines have a nice easy to pull recoil starter. ;D
is there a weight dissadvantage with the sparky pull start?
-
No disadvantage with a sparky pull start, the disadvantage is with the weight of the rest of the engine ;D ;D ;D
Course, they're easier to start - til you flood them! ;)
If anyone is looking for a cheap starter, get down to your local motorbike breakers and get a starter motor the same size as a Dynatron (mine was a Honda 250 (I think), stick a handle on it and an industrial strength momentary switch, some thick speaker wire (very supply and carries high ampeage), croc clips and off you go. All up price about £30. The price may be a bit out cos I've had mine since 1985 (no - it CAN'T be that long) :'(
It's started everything from a .12 to a .90 off a 12V battery.
If anyone wants more info, let me know.
Danny
-
phantom the sparkys is obviously heavier but it also puts our between 4 and 7 hp depending on wether you get a stock one or the zen 7 from dave marles.the zens will push that boat over 50 mph stock a modded zen and your looking at 60 or more :o which is not a good idea for amono hull!! a cat will be ok over 70mph. with a zen and thats a real sight to see.the fastest zen got a boat to over 100 mph admittedly it was a rigger but its still a boat.in my opinion a boat over 40" needs to be a sparky it just makes more sense and you can run a lot longer on one tank of fuel than you will with any nitro engine. ::)ask me how i know lol.
-
how much do these Zens cost to buy? ;)
-
if you want one id buy from the states way cheaper like half as cheap!! hers a cpl of links for yaa
first ones a good company fast delivery 20 quid postage from hongkong second equally good from states.
]] (http://)http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zenoah-G260PUM-Marine-Ignition-Gasoline-Engine-Pertol_W0QQitemZ150033261908QQihZ005QQcategoryZ116075QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
http://http://www.oneillbrothers.com/rcboat/index.htm
-
cool, the engine that you are using, did you get that off ebay from a guy in walsall?
-
i got mine from a guy in scotland he had loads i have two this guy in walsal he isnt caleld euan is he?.its a good little engine for 15 quid which is what i paid and its better than the mcculoch ones by far.
-
how much do these Zens cost to buy? ;)
Got mine for around £300. Mine has been modified though, and that is included in the cost of that motor. (It's called a Zen 7)
Glenn
-
mmmm decisions decisions!!! ???
i think the first boat will have to be nitro, just to test the water so to speak! i have a bit of experience using nitro in cars so maybe a good starting point.
cheers for your help chaps, i'll be needing a lot more soon!!! ;D
Here you go Phantom. This should just about shove your boat around for you, but remember, the throttle goes both ways!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CMB-90-Racing-Engine-for-FSRV-Multi-Offshore-OMRA-Boat_W0QQitemZ190089612213QQihZ009QQcategoryZ140971QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190089612213
-
hi all
if the boat was mine i would fit nitro engine. it will cause you less problems.
unless you want a boat to trim your hedge with.
in my mind the sparky is to heavy + ignition systems & water don't mix.
a good saying
easy to Sarto essayer to stop
good luck Steve
-
I don't use the American system of two strips of ply up the middle (don't know what they call them) ???
Hi Danny,
Stringers is the word. Just wondering, do you have any tips for an easy way to cut them out please ?
Ian
-
IF the hull is strong enough -
use a cutting disc in a Dremel along the inside hull/stringer join. Repeat on the outside of the join (as much as you can get at) taking GREAT CARE not to go through the hull :-[ when you have cut away as much as possible
modellers of a nervous disposition may want to look away at this point...
take a 1/2" wood chisel and using it bevel side down and at a shallow angle, hack away the ply :-\
If you initially concentrate on the transom end, once you get the first bit free, you can then "waggle" the ply fairly forcefully to break the rest of the join.
Once the ply is out, you will be left with lots of glass tape with the edges poking up. Grip these with a pair of pincers and lever against the hull (gently or you'll crack the hull) the tape should come off bringing most of the resin with it. All thats left is to grind out the rest using a flap wheel or power file.
OK guys, you can open your eyes again ;D ;D
The Butcher
-
Danny,
rough... but effective. I was reading Ian's question as how to cut out the ply to make stringers - not remove them form the hull. Oops. I got it wrong again.
Glenn
PS. BTW Danny, you have a PM from me.
Cheers
-
Bl**dy H*ll Glenn, I hope I've understood the question, otherwise Ian going to have some REALLY rough looking stringers :o ;D
Danny
-
hi all
if the boat was mine i would fit nitro engine. it will cause you less problems.
unless you want a boat to trim your hedge with.
in my mind the sparky is to heavy + ignition systems & water don't mix.
a good saying
easy to Sarto essayer to stop
good luck Steve
shows what you know doesnt it!! ::)the zenoah is probably more reliable than any nitro engine and willlast a heck of a lot longer too.and yep easy to start inexpensive to run and fast!!.for any big boat the only propper way to power it is petrol thats my opinion.
-
I don't use the American system of two strips of ply up the middle (don't know what they call them) ???
Hi Danny,
Stringers is the word. Just wondering, do you have any tips for an easy way to cut them out please ?
Ian
are you wanting to remove stringers or make stringers to go in the boat? if the boat has stringers done remove them why would you? its a simple way to install an engine all you need is ali angle to hang the motor from using rubber isolators to stop too much vibration.
-
Danny,
Thanks a lot - you got it the right way. I bought a "built" Challenger 48 on eBay some months ago. It had a fuel tank compartment glassed into the nose between the stringers, as well as a load of foam around it - just to make it more interesting to get the stringers out. I was going to try a few vertical cuts in the ply, Dremel the join, and break it free, but maybe I won't need the cuts. If I can get the back free, the leverage might help break what's in the nose away from what's left of the fuel tank compartment and foam. Otherwise I guess I'll have to cut and leave those bits. The hull (and deck) have already seen a chisel - getting out what I could of the fuel tank compartment. It should be strong enough, it's a pretty thick layup - product of someone's shed I suspect. Now what was that you said about a belt sander ???
Martno1fan,
I'm trying to make room for a "multi" type fuel tank - as far back as possible. Otherwise I will have to try and build a radio box between the stringers, and put a couple of 1L poly fuel tanks either side - outside the stringers (just about room for the tanks, but the radio box wil be a pain). Also, as I think the resin in the nose (as above) has soaked into the foam to some extent, I want to try and get what I can out and start again. At the moment - in the nose, the stringers, foam, and what's left of the compartment are all in my way of getting at the others, so if I can get rid of one of them......... Maybe I should start on the foam first...... With a spoon.
All the Best:
Ian
-
Thinners may dissolve the foam for you Ian.
Depends what type of foam it is but I think it does for some, either that or nail varnish remover.
G
-
ian you can use iv bags for tanks in a boat i know the guys use them for petrol tanks dont see why not for nitro?.might save some work for you ;).by the way thinners will disolve foam but if the boats made from poly resin it may eat the whole boat :o :'(
-
As a point of iinterest, I stopped using 2 pack or expanding foam a few years ago. In those bad old days, other racers were almost constantly running into my boat :o I know, difficult to believe but true as I stand here!
To get at the front, I had to dig out the foam - with a spoon ;D Then sand the residue off, before I could glass it up.
I now use 15mm x 25mm wall, pipe insulation, if I lived near the sea I would get those 5ft foam swimming floats which are solid foam ??? which are sold to send children out to sea. :)
Cut it to the various lengths required to go across the nose (some have a slight angle, some have up to 60 deg). Cut slightly oversize and wedge in. Just in front of the engine, I glass a screw into the 'V' of the hull, then make an ally bracket with a right angle to fasten to the screw which keeps the whole lot in.
Result - far less weight and access to the nose! I know that some say the foam helps strengthen the front, but then we're back to driving skills ;D
You might be able to make out what I'm on about in one of my earlier pics on this thread.
Danny
-
Hi Glenn and Martin,
Thanks, I hadn't thought of using chemical means - but it might be worth a shout. I don't think thinners will attack cured polyester - at least not in the short term, and if acetone (high purity nail varnish remover), will dissolve the foam, that's definitely an option. High purity acetone is probably my favourite cleaner / degreaser - and quite cheap in quantity from GRP equipment suppliers.
I had thought about IV bags for fuel tanks, but wasn't sure whether they would stand nitro. Nitro boats also tend to need more fuel - especially for up to half hour run time. I do remember someone using a "bladder tank" with a SC .91 in a Giant Apache though.....
Danny,
I use pipe lagging for buoyancy when I'm building now as well. In this case though, I've got to work with (or remove !) what was already there. If chemicals don't work, it might just be down to what size spoon to use.
Cheers:
Ian
-
failing that theres allways the blow torch!! :o
-
failing that theres allways the blow torch!! :o
Could work - I wonder how much petrol the buoyancy foam will hold. Those Vikings knew a thing or two.
-
if they used propper stuff it shouldnt have any fuel in it as it shouldnt absorb water so shouldnt absorb fuel either.stand by with the fire extinguisher just in case :o.
-
Hi Glenn and Martin,
Thanks, I hadn't thought of using chemical means - but it might be worth a shout. I don't think thinners will attack cured polyester - at least not in the short term, and if acetone (high purity nail varnish remover), will dissolve the foam, that's definitely an option. High purity acetone is probably my favourite cleaner / degreaser - and quite cheap in quantity from GRP equipment suppliers.
I had thought about IV bags for fuel tanks, but wasn't sure whether they would stand nitro. Nitro boats also tend to need more fuel - especially for up to half hour run time. I do remember someone using a "bladder tank" with a SC .91 in a Giant Apache though.....
Danny,
I use pipe lagging for buoyancy when I'm building now as well. In this case though, I've got to work with (or remove !) what was already there. If chemicals don't work, it might just be down to what size spoon to use.
Cheers:
Ian
The IV bags I have will definitely be no good for methanol fuel, the pipe coming out of them are hard plastic, which is the same as the stuff used on fish tank air lines etc. - goes hard with methanol, so IV bags a non starter - also probably too small.
-
im sure they do large ones? do they not use some on nitro boats over the pond im sure ive seen some used .maybe dif to youres i dont know.
-
They do make different sizes of IV bags.
The ones I got are made of PVC as is the "take off" tube so they are no good for glow fuel (Methanol), they will go rock hard.
Glenn
-
if they used propper stuff it shouldnt have any fuel in it as it shouldnt absorb water so shouldnt absorb fuel either.stand by with the fire extinguisher just in case :o.
Sorry, Poor attempt at humour. I meant that if I could get the foam to soak up enough petrol, and with the aid of the blowtorch, I could give it a Viking burial.
Ian
-
Methanol burns cleaner I think and is easier to light..... :D
Think it's got to be the Shetlands for boat burning time.
G
-
But you can't see methanol flames.
-
I now use 15mm x 25mm wall, pipe insulation, if I lived near the sea I would get those 5ft foam swimming floats which are solid foam ??? which are sold to send children out to sea. :
A 43" or 48" AeroMarine Challenger with "Pool Noodles" (think that is what those swimming floats are called) fitted in it chines will float equally as well upside down as right way up - even to the extent that my boat's engine was still running when upside down.
Foam only in the bow invariably means that if your boat sinks it will go "swan up" and your radio gear is under water.
-
Sweet hull, proportional shapes, great finnish. I like the orange. My hull weighs 1.5 kg with rails and is 58". Total of boat (less fuel) with CMB 90 is 4.5 kg. I have a 0.7 kg lead bar to add if I desire. I also made the hardware.
www.youtube.com/profile?user=patriktegelberg
My pics are to big but the boat can be seen here
www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=gallery&memid=299016
-
hi all why dont you look at bluefishy78 theres a link on mayhems page 260pum zens for £150 pound and this guy is based in west london
best regards dave a.k.a boatboy :o
-
or pay 130 quid to your door from the states from oniel bros,bonzi and others ;D.
-
Not forgetting.......
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zenoah-G260PUM-Marine-Ignition-Gasoline-Engine-Pertol_W0QQitemZ150120180841QQihZ005QQcategoryZ116075QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem