Model Boat Mayhem

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: Peewee on May 29, 2011, 11:12:07 AM

Title: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on May 29, 2011, 11:12:07 AM
Hi All,

I am about to start my S-Class build this week (assuming i can locate the missplaced plans) %%.  I have a couple of questions surounding the internal technology.

1 are Tanks better than say a bladder/water pump system for an 82" hull.   if so apart from Engle are there any other systems or do i simply bite the bullet and pay up.  if pump system would a Sheerline system work?
2. has anyone built one with folding front planes?  i would like this function for scale affect and safer transport.

cheers
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on May 29, 2011, 06:09:37 PM
Here's a build thread that may interest you- http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6965

Ballast system choice is very much down to personal preference. If proportional control is important to you, piston tanks are the only way to go. If that's less of an issue, a water pump system is very economical and will work well. Or you could think laterally, and incorporate a small piston trim tank with a larger ballast tank based on a water or air pump.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on May 30, 2011, 06:13:58 PM
Thank you for the link, much appreciated.

Would it be ok to pop along to the Sunday at St Albans dive in.

regards
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on May 30, 2011, 06:48:12 PM
Yep, no problem. Bring your boat along too.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Mankster on May 30, 2011, 07:32:25 PM
In one of the Caswell Gato built reports there are pictures and description of the retracct mechanism for the folding fromt planes. Should be pretty straight forward to scale it up.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 02, 2011, 05:53:13 PM
Hi All,
Well the first step has been taken and holes have been drilled.  although she has been on the shelf for 9 months its only now i realise how big she really is.  :o
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1540.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1542.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1543.jpg)

i heave read alot about different electronic devices from depth control to pitch controlers etc.  A question to the people in the know, with a boat of this size and with high fromnt planes what additional devices shoulf i be looking at over and above the dive modules.  which i am almod=st convinced should be Engle tanks. 

If the tank option what should i make the bulkheads and lid from?  on another stupid question whose stuffing boxes and pushrod seals should i be using?

regards
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 02, 2011, 06:56:50 PM
A decent ESC a leveller/pitch controller and a means of controlling you ballast tanks, which ever you decide to go for.

For ESC's and levellers go here- http://www.microgyros.com

Did I send you the document showing how to make your own piston tanks?

Andy
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 02, 2011, 08:17:07 PM
Cheers for the link Andy,
I have been through my emails from yourself and do not a;ppear to have the mentioned document.
regards
Ian
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Mankster on June 03, 2011, 02:47:59 PM
There was also a OTW S class build report over 2 issues in the Subcommittee Report recently.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 03, 2011, 05:36:45 PM
What is the volume of of the tanks in Ron's dive module, Ramesh?
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 03, 2011, 05:57:49 PM
i wonder if they do back copies if it was a good article.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 03, 2011, 06:04:54 PM
I don't think it will help you much to be honest, it dealt more with the build up of hull than what goes inside, which is the 'real' submarine in my book- the hull is just the icing, with what goes inside being the 'cake'.

Andy
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 04, 2011, 08:55:27 AM
Cheers,

The modeling bit i am good for its the engineering inside i am a little weak on as its been 20 years since i built my X-Craft.

Is Ron still making tanks as i notice he as not been on line for some time?
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 04, 2011, 12:56:16 PM
I think so. He should be at the Dive-in next week, most likely on the Sunday. Ron has his Alfa equipped with one of these modules, and his friend Mick Higgott has an Engel typhoon with two of them fitted, and that is the best performing Typhoon class I have seen to date. I'm expecting both of these models to be at St Albans.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Mankster on June 04, 2011, 02:21:50 PM
..and that is the best performing Typhoon class I have seen to date.

Bah ... it those not scale kort nozzels he has fitted  :-)
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 25, 2011, 05:39:11 PM
So many holes drilled and yet still so many to go!!!  :} :}

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1553.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1552.jpg)
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Mankster on June 25, 2011, 06:03:08 PM
Looking much more ship shape already  :-))
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 25, 2011, 06:39:39 PM
Amazing how chopping a few holes into a hull enhances the appearance. At least you didn't choose a GRP Type XXI, that really is for the masochistic!
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: bassplayer1 on June 25, 2011, 08:59:07 PM
Nice, really nice!!! :-))
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 27, 2011, 05:04:50 PM
Thank you for the comments.
well decided to make a small start on the mechanical parts. firstly the props, and a question.  should the stubby propshafts the glued in per picture 2
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1560.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1561.jpg)

second job was to insert the rudder shaft into the rudder molding.  took some courage to drill this and it was done half way in then turn around and drill from the other end to reduce the drills vibration.
the longest part of the job was to ensure squareness
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1563.jpg)
once drilled then the shaft was press fitted into the rudder followed by drilling the retaining hole
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1565.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1567.jpg)

the completed job, though i may add a brass bearing into the retaining hole.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1568.jpg)

regards
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Andy_k on June 27, 2011, 05:28:55 PM
Amazing how chopping a few holes into a hull enhances the appearance. At least you didn't choose a GRP Type XXI, that really is for the masochistic!

now he tells me 8ft type xxi anyone :(
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: derekwarner on June 27, 2011, 09:28:36 PM
Hullo PeeWee....those cast bronze/brass prop running I  frames look very nice :-)) .....but heavy  >:-o ....are they from the prototypical kit build? ...........Derek
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 27, 2011, 09:46:06 PM
They're the prop shop castings, made from masters supplied by Darrin Hathaway. The weight won't matter, it's low down where it needs to be.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on June 28, 2011, 07:07:05 PM
its also far lighter than it looks
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on June 29, 2011, 08:16:51 AM
a question.  should the stubby propshafts the glued in per picture 2

Not seen any pictures of the stern opf an s-class out of the water, although I'm sure some exist somewhere. Other classes of boat indicate that a stern tube projected a short distance outside the hull, and this was normally faired in well with the rest of the hull shape.l
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: pugwash on June 29, 2011, 08:40:40 AM
Subculture you are probably aware of these sub websites but just in case

Geoff

http://www.britsub.net/

http://www.secondworldwar.org.uk/britsubs3.html
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Davy1 on June 30, 2011, 08:17:23 AM
Thanks for posting these links, Geoff.

I wasn't aware of the second one , which is particularly valuable because it is a collection of crew photographs i.e not ones that went through the official censor.

David
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: coolbumble on July 02, 2011, 08:32:24 PM

Hi Peewee
Noticed in your first post you inquired about retractable and rotating front planes for your sub .
Ive recently built amongst others a Revel Gato using Dave Welch system which would obviously need some beefing up for a model your size. However in a web search awhile ago I found these pictures which show a much better system and obviously for a large submarine. I think the pictures are self explanatory.
The sub looks great  Hope this helps
Best of luck
IAN   :-))



(http://s3.postimage.org/1wy361ev8/bow_plane_confug.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1wy361ev8/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/1wyi1vjb8/bow_plane_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1wyi1vjb8/)
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 03, 2011, 10:02:25 AM
Cheers Ian,  those pictures make total sence and look just what i have een looking for.   :}
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 21, 2011, 05:16:44 PM
Well after a couple of weeks DIY i got back to the sub today.
first off was a bearing for the base of the rudder
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1583.jpg)

here it is in place plus a bracket for the top. bracket needs cleaning up.  note the small opening just above the skeg.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1584.jpg)

Next was to make a control bracket for the dive planes
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1587.jpg)

what it will look like on the shaft
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1588.jpg)

The finished set up
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1590.jpg)

and just how small working areas are on subs, just need to install the grub screw.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1591.jpg)

this has been designed to be removable if necessary for maintinance.
regards
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on July 22, 2011, 09:57:22 AM
Hi Peewee
Noticed in your first post you inquired about retractable and rotating front planes for your sub .
Ive recently built amongst others a Revel Gato using Dave Welch system which would obviously need some beefing up for a model your size. However in a web search awhile ago I found these pictures which show a much better system and obviously for a large submarine. I think the pictures are self explanatory.
The sub looks great  Hope this helps
Best of luck
IAN   :-))



(http://s3.postimage.org/1wy361ev8/bow_plane_confug.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1wy361ev8/)

(http://s3.postimage.org/1wyi1vjb8/bow_plane_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1wyi1vjb8/)


Excellent retract system, I should know, I built it :embarrassed:. I made it to fit my mates OTW HMS Ocelot, so it should fit a 1/32 S Class. There were no machined parts in the build, only filing and cutting. The upright brass plates were the only silver soldered parts, everything else being soft soldered. The braided pushrods were stainless bicycle brake cable and offered just enough 'give' to avoid any binding issues. I spent 6 weeks thinking the design through and about 10 days building it.
The next system I hope to build is a retractable system for a big Sheerline Alfa, the problem with this fit is that the planes extend out from the hull horizontally, not pivoting like the Typhoon or Type XXI, but straight out. They are also one above the other slightly, port to starboard, to fit in the tight confines of this small submarine. This I may ignore!!
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 22, 2011, 04:07:46 PM
a nice system indeed  unbuiltnautilus,  my issue is the hight of the planes on the S compaired to most subs.

not much done today, spent some time on the conning tower.  Cut out yet more holes and lined the sides and fitted the deck.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1595.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1596.jpg)

regards
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on July 22, 2011, 05:30:13 PM
The unit was a tight fit in the Ocelot and did initially need to be cut down in height by about 4mm, I think the photos were taken after the height reduction surgery. It does look tight for height on the S Class though, however, I think the unit could be made to fit.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Wehrbier on July 22, 2011, 08:20:53 PM
Maybe this drawings can help you a bit:

http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/10/t64596,5--chertezhi-podvodnykh-lodok-2.html (http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/10/t64596,5--chertezhi-podvodnykh-lodok-2.html)

I think I remember that somewhere in this pages are more S-Class pics. Anyway its worth to search all these pics in this source.

regards

Sascha
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: kazzer on July 23, 2011, 10:51:33 PM
Here is a slideshow of most of the S Class submarines I have photos of  -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiRBryxvWfY

If you are looking for a Snort system for this boat (real S Classes Snort) you might like to look at building your own WTC

http://www.caswellplating.com/models/bulkheads.html  (http://www.caswellplating.com/models/bulkheads.html)


This is a good subject to entry into the Sub-driver competition   PM me for details
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: kazzer on July 24, 2011, 03:41:09 AM
I have some info on color schemes  PM me please
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 24, 2011, 10:38:02 AM
PM sent
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 28, 2011, 07:08:20 PM
Well, i managed a few hours today after work and made a start on the main deck.

first i layed the deck over the moulding to mark out the hatch openings, then a rough cut was taken
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1597.jpg)

Then glued on the decking, ensuring both surfaces were well keyed.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1598.jpg)

utilising the brass deck i then filed the openings to the correct size
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1600.jpg)

next job is to blend in the deck to the moulding
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Patrick Henry on July 28, 2011, 07:25:27 PM
Very nice....
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on July 29, 2011, 03:12:32 PM
Settled on a dive module yet?
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 29, 2011, 05:38:34 PM
Thank you U33

Andy, i am hoping to pop up to see RonP in his workshop over the next few days, matching diaries allowing.  i will hopefully see his sub in action and make a final decision then.

work progression on the main deck
today I sanded the filler around the deck, it has come up fairly well as you can see

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1606.jpg)

on close inspection as suspected there are a few low spots

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1605.jpg)

the deck has had a much lighter amount of filler applied, again i will wait a full 24 hours before sanding. then if looking good the holes will be drilled and a primer applied. the primer at this stage will be to highlight any areas still requiring work.

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1608.jpg)

i am enjoying the work on the deck as it starts to make the personality of the boat, it also means i am avoiding the work on the conning tower mods.  Though this cannot be delayed forever, especially as i have announced the boats name elsewhere as HMS Sibyl and the font of her tower is completely different.

Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on July 29, 2011, 06:02:43 PM
Yes the front of the tower has that strange canopy on the front. Are you going to make a master and take a cast from that in GRP?
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 29, 2011, 06:12:08 PM
Right there in a single question youhave found my weakness.  i am useless with the glass stuff.   how ever i look at it though i will have to make a former for the shape and take it from there
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on July 29, 2011, 06:19:25 PM
Okay. You make the master, and I will mould it for you.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 30, 2011, 07:30:58 AM
hees Andy, i may well take you up on your offer.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on July 30, 2011, 02:24:48 PM
Another 'quick and dirty' method would be to carve a sacrificial master from foam. Make the dimensions undersized by about 1/8", then coat with epoxy putty, like milliput. Allow to dry, and pull away from the foam, clean up the casting with some cellulose thinners or acetone, and finish the milliput piece to size with files and sandpaper.

You could also do this with polyester filler, but the result will be a lot more fragile, and you would need to coat the foam in oil paint or varnish to stop the foam melting, or use polyurethane foam.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 30, 2011, 06:52:36 PM
Andy, i will be cutting the connoing tower tomorrow so that i am able to see clearly in 3 dimensions whats required.  the filler/putty is an idea but not sure about its duribility? 

To the build:
Finally the deck has gone as far as possible until other parts have been worked on.
Today a light coat of primer was blown on to the deck; this enabled to see with more detail where the final flaws were. The holes were drilled out at this time also.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1612.jpg)

Once final filling and cleaning were complete an additional but slightly heavier coat was applied.
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1614.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1615.jpg)

Whilst not totally perfect i am pleased with how it has turned out. The final cleaning will take place prior to final painting.

Thank you for reading.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on July 30, 2011, 07:04:47 PM
If you use epoxy putty, it will be very tough indeed, trust me.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on July 30, 2011, 07:15:42 PM
I'll give it ago, not used milliput in years.  luckily i spotted last week the local train shop sells it.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on July 30, 2011, 07:19:47 PM
I find the 'fine white' version is best. Most important thing is to mix it very thoroughly, else it doesn't kick. Giving a bit of extra heat helps it cure better. Once set, it really does go rock hard and is extremely tough.

If you have a Poundland local, they were doing epoxy putty for 1 a tube, which is a bargain. However once they sell out, they don't always restock.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on September 08, 2011, 07:14:44 PM
Hi All,

Been a bit quite due to family illnesses,  as such i have decided to buy a dive system instead of building my own.  its a time thing.  after much searching and review reading etc i chose the OTW system.  though they do not appear popular over her, the other side pf the pond people seem to like the simplicity, controlability and hopefully the reliability.  well enough words here are the pictures

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1626.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1625.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww169/peacocki/S%20Class/DSCF1624.jpg)

all i need to do now is plumb it all in   %%
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: kazzer on November 04, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
Yes the front of the tower has that strange canopy on the front. Are you going to make a master and take a cast from that in GRP?

It's called a 'cab style' I read somewhere recently.

Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: batfish on December 14, 2011, 12:52:03 PM
Any updates mate??? S-class is a nice boat, Wonder if anyone will go for a Surcouf
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: kazzer on December 16, 2011, 02:32:24 AM
Maybe this drawings can help you a bit:

http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/10/t64596,5--chertezhi-podvodnykh-lodok-2.html (http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/10/t64596,5--chertezhi-podvodnykh-lodok-2.html)

I think I remember that somewhere in this pages are more S-Class pics. Anyway its worth to search all these pics in this source.

regards

Sascha

THESE PLANS ARE JOHN LAMBERT'S AND SUBJECT TO COPYRIGHT.  DOWNLOADING THESE IS T H E F T! www.lambertplans.com


Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: salmon on December 16, 2011, 04:49:47 PM
That link was down, but I did find him here:
http://www.feralchicken.co.uk/lambert-plans/ (http://www.feralchicken.co.uk/lambert-plans/)
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on December 16, 2011, 05:08:49 PM
I think there are a few others work posted up on that forum. I spy Greg Sharpe's drawings for Skipjack and Permit classes for starters.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on January 25, 2012, 07:10:39 AM
Now sadly for sale http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=35106.0
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Subculture on January 25, 2012, 05:32:24 PM
That's a shame. Hopefully someone here will buy it and finish it off, it's an imposing boat.
Title: Re: S-Class
Post by: Peewee on January 25, 2012, 07:34:12 PM
it is imposing indeed, unfortunately currently i just don't have the time.  hopefully someone will be able to enjoy finishing it.