Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Norseman on May 31, 2011, 03:14:20 am
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Hi
I've read right through the post 'what mayhem is about' and it prompted me to go look at numbers - and I'm not generally a numbers guy -so if my sums don't add up I do apologise.
Up front I'll say it's wrong to just use the forum to sell stuff, and I'll say newbies (like me) should at least try the search routine. As for twenty five posts I think that's good as long as Mayhem sees it as a way to involve people and no more than that. I've made twenty five posts that haven't really contributed a lot except I'm taking part, getting known, have chatted to other newbies (makes us both feel welcome) and I've asked some questions that looking at previous posts didn't help me get to know what I needed - your members had the experience to make suggestions. So choices - I can take part even though I don't know much, or I can peep through the window and eventually I'll probably go away. Please look at mayhem's numbers
Mayhem shows 6.147 members in 123 pages at 50 members per page,
Below p.60 there are no contributions at all - thats about fifty percent of the membership have never made a post - I can't tell if they went away or still look in.
but before the end of p.32 (1600 members) those contributing above 6 posts have run out, and that's now roughly seventy five percent of those who joined aren't contributing or have gone away.
before end of p.17 (850 members) those contributing above 25 posts have run out - so that leaves about fourteen percent contributing as full Mayhemers.
So that means the forum keeps only about 14 percent of members willing to contribute by posting. On that basis it seems to me that Mayhem needs the newbies to ask daft questions, so you get to chat to them and they decide to stay, and in turn eventually they will really contribute.
and just for interest
before the end of p.8 (400 members) 100 posts have run out.
before the end of p.5 (250 members) 200 posts have run out.
As I said earlier my maths ain't great (especially with the magic mead long since opened). I don't mean to offer any offence to anyone in saying the above, and this is a great site. What do you think? {:-{
Regards Norseman.
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Hmm, I think; Why do I care?
As long as members are civil and polite to each other.
My dis-belief with the forum is the apparent and numerous posts within threads that have nothing to do with the original post. In my community, If someone started a conversation, and during it others just started dropping in random unrelated comments, then they are rude (unless intoxicated, which is ok)
In my short time here, searching verges on being a waste of time, because there are so many unrelated comments buried that finding info is like finding a needle in a hay stack.
And whats with posts being allowed to openly bag another? Respect seems to be missing from the forum, thats what I think.
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You've done a lot of research there, Norseman, but I'm not quite sure what it proves, other than many who join the forum don't actively participate. I think that is about par for the course with many forums.
As each new member joins, they are sent a welcome message which outlines the aims and rules of Mayhem, and suggests ways of participating soon after joining. A number of newbies do just that but, as you point out, many never do. That is something completely beyond Mayhem's control, people make their own decisions as to whether they wish to post or not.
You say that in your 25 plus posts you haven't contributed a lot; I disagree, you have taken part in discussions and offered opinions, which is one of the reasons that Mayhem exists. The reason that the "25 contributory posts before listing an item for sale" rule was put in place was to stop people making use of Mayhem purely as a cheap alternative to eBay. The word "contributory" was added later so people didn't build up their count by making pointless comments.
Trooper63, you made a very good point about civility and politeness, two qualities which the moderators try hard to uphold. Occasionally we upset someone who believes that "free speech" is just that, in other words, he can say what he likes, when he likes, about whomever he likes, regardless of the language used. These people don't take kindly to moderation, however, and are often very vocal in their expressions of outrage if a moderator sanctions them. This site belongs to Martin, he set the rules and the moderating team does its best to maintain that standard. We also try to keep topics on track but, as the moderators only have a limited amount of time to devote to the forum, we don't always succeed.
With regard to the "Search" facility; I agree it can be somewhat frustrating at times but, by using the "advanced" search, it is usually possible to find what you are looking for. Martin pays for the site largely out of his own pocket, with help from some sponsors, and to introduce a much more comprehensive search capability would probably cost much more.
Peter Fitness,
Moderator.
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as they say
you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink
:D
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As I said it was the full postings of 'what mayhem is all about' that prompted me to go look at numbers; but I admit the numbers don't reflect the site hits or whose making them - I had no way to look at that. Now everyone reads a post with their own bias (especially long and meandering posts) and my bias has to be the newbies. Nevertheless I could agree with people about sellers and some newbies being a bit lazy - so I made the effort to openly cede those points. But ........... I read the topic and thought many newbies (unsure of themselves / abilities, etc) would 'overall' feel the post a little 'anti newbie'. Now I'm sure I've expressed that poorly but I hope you will find the spirit of what I'm saying about encouraging participation by those tentative members out there because some people will find it quite daunting.
Trooper 63 made some good points about posts in general, and I thought it interesting that his initial reaction was 'why do I care?'. Well, in the 84% of lost or silent membership there must be a wealth of knowledge and info that doesn't make it onto the site for us to se and enjoy - and I have enjoyed reading a lot here. I quite like reading some meanderings as long as people do come back to the issue at hand. As for the search engine - ok it's a little frustrating - but it has also been responsible for my reading many posts that I wouldn't otherwise have done.
So do you think it important/unimportant to increase contributions to the site?
Regards Norseman
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Norseman who knows why someone registers - looks around for half an hour and then never comes back again.
Others come back and view but never post. I know when I joined I asked couple of questions but only posted
about 20 times in the first 18 months. Then I realised I could answer some of the questions, especially if they
were about warships. Each to their own. Some obviously dont have much of an interest in ship modelling
but just come on because they are bored or curious but can't see the pics so they register.
It is probably the same at 99% of websites round the world.
As long as the forum is active and the membership are happy why worry about the stats.
As for newcomers, I never felt n anti attitude when I joined - most people were very helpful, just the odd ones
were a bit grumpy. Its not surprising really you see the same questions come up about once a month
and occasionally you get someone on a bad day who comments about looking through the forum before
asking yet another version of the same question.
To add a morbid note, though there are 6000+ members I bet quite a few have crossed the bar or a ill and no
longer make models and if they are new members nobody would notice.
The forum seems to thrive though we sometimes have our argumentative days, it usually settles down
and we get back to the hobby of making boats
Geoff
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Non participating minorities are a fact of life. Just look at the number of people who attend football matches or follow it in the papers compared with those who actually play! Geoff is right, most people just have a curious look or maybe dabble a bit and lose interest. It's only a very small proportion who actually keep things turning over on a regular basis. Again, as with all Forums, there are people who come to 'take' without gving anything back in return. With regard to newbies there are some who are, shall we say, a bit lazy in preferring to get somebody else to answer questions that could be easily answered themselves if they could be bothered to take the time to do so. A question such as 'How do I build a model boat?' is likely to attract less response than someone who comes on and says 'I've been building such and such and am stuck on this particular issue'.
And of course there are a few people who think Forums are a public service and get annoyed when they don't get an immediate answer to their query.
Colin
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I ask lots of questions on here, for 2 reasons mainly.
1. The search function is less than adequate (IMHO)
2. Even though I own and sail many boats, I'm not an avid builder, so I ask technical questions. But I also answer specific questions if I have knowledge of the problem enquired about.
I believe a forum is just that, it's a discussion board where questions and answers are posted. Regarding the same questions coming up repeatedly, the stock answer off some is, do a search. Well if we all did that and the search function was good enough, there would be very few 'New' posts would there? :-)
As for the statistics, I would have thought the only person really interested would be Martin and maybe the mods? I run forums myself and they are exactly the same as this one statistics wise, the majority of registered members hardly post anything, if at all, but who's really that concerned? I'm not ok2
ATB
Nige
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Ah but out of the 6000+ members how many of them are alternate accounts for members still active? I'd say at least 25% of that total figure. ever notice how you get some 'idiot' turn up and start making posts to wind up the masses?
At the end of the day your not forced to post, some could be put off by the wait time for admin to accept your account so never return even once active, others simply just wish to have an account to post should they ever need to, but will just use the forum as reference or to watch the 'mayhem' and have a laugh at us!
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i dont contribute a lot to the model making side of the forums mainly because my skill levels at the moment are beginner to average but i do enjoy reading the threads and have taken on board a lot of hints and tips from them without neccessarily commenting on it. when i have asked questions most members are very helpful. you will always get the odd smart comment but you take the bad with the good. maybe some of the no posters are doing the same ie. reading but not posting.
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I'm like "hopeitfloats" I spend most of my time on here reading the posts to learn from the more experienced modellers, reading the tips and hints and the photos help me a lot because I'm only a learner at modelling and I make the odd comment when I feel confident enough to contribute.
Jimmy.
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Hi
just to pull another brick from under my own post - you guys probably do a lot of PM's that don't figure in the post stats I looked at - so there's unseen activity going on too.
Norseman
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as they say
you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink
:D
Or, as Laurel & Hardy said............. "you can take a horse to water........................but a pencil must be lead." %% %% {-) {-) {-)
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if we are still talking about not posting then I prefer Rab C Nesbitts ' I'll sail this ship alone' - Ha I really wish I could have posted that in character :}
Norseman
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These two previous posts ,,they are priceless bits of comedy .well done .
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I know my post count isn't high, but I only get to check in one every few days
most times where I know the answer to a question someone else has got there first
I enjoy reading the posts and have learn't a lot. And now sumer is here I'll get on here less as it's my busy time at work probably no modeling until october
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if we are still talking about not posting then I prefer Rab C Nesbitts ' I'll sail this ship alone' - Ha I really wish I could have posted that in character :}
Norseman
is that because you have his haircut
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When I joined this forum a few years ago I joined with the belief that it was all about Model Boats / Ships and so on.
As both a retired seafarer and a ship modeller I thought that the combination of my two areas of "expertise" could possibly be of benefit to those who may well be very good modellers, but perhaps lacked the practical knowledge gained by actually being bounced around on "the real things".
This attitude of mine met with a somewhat mixed reception. I agree that I probably came on a bit strong in my earlier postings...but I was soon put in my place about that! Even though it was all well intentioned. At that stage I really had no notion that so many members of this forum were more interested in "other things" (as opposed to modelling). This sort of (non-modelling) aspect would appear to be pretty prevalent now.
For myself. I'd prefer the forum to get back to its roots and chuck out a lot of the dross that's being posted.
So many "modellers" who are posting don't even know what scale they are building at. But they buy RTR boats and still get into trouble. I despair sometimes. It's all very well "just getting a boat on the water"...but please try to learn at least a little about the boat you have. And restrict postings to problems you can't solve for yourself instead of just wanting a "quick fix". BY.
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Some interesting replies as to why many people register but don't post much or at all.
A good point mentioned was that you can't see the piccies unles you register - that explains quite a few then :-))
Others will register and spend a lot of time browsing/reading what interests them but not post unless they feel they have something to contribute, (and if they've received a 'not particularly welcoming response' to their opinions they will tend to keep their mouths shut in the future), and that's a sad reflection on how 'noobies' can be treated on forums <*<
In general, (on model aircraft forums, as I've only been on here since March), I've found posters tend towards 4 groups -
1. Those who post for the sake of it - usually very high post counts but not a lot of sense being said %)
2. Those who post to pass on info/techniques - usually through build threads or information threads :-))
3. Those who spend more time asking and looking than posting - usually beginners and people researching particular subjects :-))
4. Those who disappear quite quickly - usually new members who get 'the hump' with the way they've been treated for asking simple questions, (a sad reflection on the forum) <*<
As an aside, I've just looked at my own stats on some other forums, the most interesting is one I've paid for lifetime membership - a member for over 7 years but only 44 posts {:-{ most members fall into #2 or #3 above. Yet a UK based forum that has (too many IMO) off topic areas - tends towards #1 on my list. There used to be a lot of #2 and #3, but quite a lot of those have migrated to the 'pay site' I mentioned, mainly to talk about scale models than general niff-naff and trivia that seems to be taking over.
Where do I see myself - probably between #2 and #3, on here, as a beginner to boating, defo more #3 ok2
Mark.
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When I joined this forum a few years ago I joined with the belief that it was all about Model Boats / Ships and so on.
As both a retired seafarer and a ship modeller I thought that the combination of my two areas of "expertise" could possibly be of benefit to those who may well be very good modellers, but perhaps lacked the practical knowledge gained by actually being bounced around on "the real things".
This attitude of mine met with a somewhat mixed reception. I agree that I probably came on a bit strong in my earlier postings...but I was soon put in my place about that! Even though it was all well intentioned. At that stage I really had no notion that so many members of this forum were more interested in "other things" (as opposed to modelling). This sort of (non-modelling) aspect would appear to be pretty prevalent now.
For myself. I'd prefer the forum to get back to its roots and chuck out a lot of the dross that's being posted.
Interesting Bryan, I had a similar reception on a model aircraft forum with my background of 30+ years in aviation maintenance/production. I agree with you about restricting the 'off topic' areas :-))
Mark.
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Personally, I see nothing wrong with having some so-called "off topic" boards on the Forum. There are 3 such boards on Mayhem, "Chit Chat", "Other Hobbies and Interests", and "Humour" two of which give members a chance to exchange views on subjects other than boats, and the other an opportunity to have a laugh. If anyone feels that these boards are inappropriate for a Forum such as Model Boat Mayhem, then the best solution is quite simple...don't read them %).
I have done some maths of my own and found that the 3 "off topic" boards I mentioned have, between them, attracted 61,487 posts in 3,731 topics, out of a total (at the time of writing) of 293,838 posts in 18,836 topics. This equates to about 21% of the total posts in 19.8% of the total topics. Given that the board on which this very discussion is taking place, "Chit Chat" has, on its own, 51,490 posts in 2,964 topics, I don't think that's too bad.
In my time on the forum (nearly 4 years) I have not seen many instances of newbies being ridiculed for their inquiries, and usually any such ridicule or disparaging remark about a newbie attracts a reprimand from a moderator. Such behaviour is to be deplored, and is actively discouraged by the moderating team. Also, members seeing any such behaviour should use the "Report to Moderator" button.
Peter.
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Basically the statistics are not representative of the forum.
Is it the perennial question that some are not confident at public speaking, which essentially is what taking part in the forum is.
Also because we have some very able and knowledgeable contributers/commentators (masterclass) in the various threads, these may seem very daunting to the newbies, like who wants to hear what a newbie thinks or has to say.
Every member needs to be encouraged to 'have their 2 bob's worth' as we are all able to learn no matter how 'expert/experienced' we are.
Then there is the question of Computer literacy/ability and not being able to post images and the ability to type etc.
For instance I recall the problems I had trying to upload images and how I was helped by forum members to downsize images etc for posting.
So I don't see it all being restricted to only 'boats' as improvements in computer skills assits postings and assits the forum.
And last but not least the tendency, which has now greatly diminished to criticise spelling errors etc.
What is interesting is those 'regular' posters who have stopped posting, and why.
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There is one thing that would make me help a newcomer to the forum - If someone comes in with a post like " could anybody help please
Blah Blah thank you" I would be quite happy to spend a bit of time in trying to give them an answer, BUT when you get " I want, I need
etc etc" with no hint of politeness I will more often than not ignore the post. It may be oldfashioned but I like good manners and have
brought my children up that way so why shouldn't I expect the same from somebody who wants help.
If I have spent perhaps an hour researching something for a newby (which was probably online and he could have got for himself - if he
wasnt too busy, had the ability or wasnt too lazy) is it too much to expect a thankyou!!
Geoff
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Ah but out of the 6000+ members how many of them are alternate accounts for members still active? I'd say at least 25% of that total figure. ever notice how you get some 'idiot' turn up and start making posts to wind up the masses?
ok2 ok2 O0 O0 O0 O0
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Ah but out of the 6000+ members how many of them are alternate accounts for members still active? I'd say at least 25% of that total figure. ever notice how you get some 'idiot' turn up and start making posts to wind up the masses?
Ah you mean the people who have not got the GUTS to post under there own name, then claim it was there dog , Granddad , son who did it when found out.
Peter
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If there is a problem it does come to light in the admin area that there are multiple names.
As in most Forums there is only a small percentage posting, this is quite normal.
I belong to a Forum with over 23000 members and it is the usual posters doing most of the posting (much less than 100).
Bob
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Hi
Just following all your thoughts
What is interesting is those 'regular' posters who have stopped posting, and why. Says RaaArtyGunner. Why do you think they have stopped and are there many?
Also Pugwash is spot on about simply being polite to people generally (in the real world too). Can't agree about part of 'he could have got for himself - if he wasnt too busy, had the ability or wasnt too lazy' Not having the ability to find something on line is very different from laziness or being too busy to bother. Sometimes loosely googling a word just returns you an overwhelming number of responses and many lead nowhere.
On the forum I've asked about parts straight off because the choice is too wide when your green as green can be, but I haven't posted asking about working with Styrene and what thickness etc etc. That's puzzling me but it's not urgent so I'm trying to work around it myself before I post anything.
Regards Norseman
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What is interesting is those 'regular' posters who have stopped posting, and why.
Nothing unusual there either. People move on. Sometimes they get interested in something like model boats and then change to something else. All Forums have their own 'ambience' or atmosphere and you do need to adapt to that. Some people find it difficult, others take a dislike to other members and simply stop posting. Some may just get bored!
Colin
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oops very sorry - I've just realised blue is for moderators. I really wanted to highlight in grey but didn't see how to do it.
Norseman
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Its just a pity that a lot of those who dont post anymore are the more experienced and proficient modellers.
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Its just a pity that a lot of those who dont post anymore are the more experienced and proficient modellers.
The same can be said for some of the specialist gardening forums I post on, the majority of my posts now on them are correcting wrong advice given by people who think they know but blatently don't %)
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May I add my two cents worth here? I'm one of the members who lurks in the background, and I rarely post because I have really very little to contribute. I'm a boat modeller wannabe with very little time to try and make a model. The whole Mayhem site is a learning resource for me, about models, and also about how the members feel about happenings in their country, and their lives. I have been to England and Scotland many years ago, and loved it. The posts help me to understand the regular guy's attitudes to the changes over the years. This site has Informed me enormously about model boats, and I get to know a bit about some very interesting people who I wouldn't otherwise come in contact with.
Thank you all
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I'm a member who has never posted on MBM, so now seems a fitting time to start!
I'm a member of two other RC model related sites, both excellent, one for RC cars and the other for model boats that put out fires :-)) On both the ancient rule of 80/20 seems to roughly apply - 80% of input from 20% of members, in fact this is true of very many things in life. Contributors sometimes fade away for a while and others rise to the surface. Virtual friendships form and people people fall out. Off-topic banter takes place. Questions are asked and expert advice is given. Builds are documented and thousands of people enjoy, learn and are inspired by them. Advice on paint, glue, electrics, etc. etc. is readily available to help those like me who have more questions than answers.
YES, I'm a newbie - there, I've said it now, phew!
I guess joining a new forum is no different to starting a new job, it takes time to find your way around, get familiar with the dynamics and reach a point where you feel it's time to dip in. For many people this is a place to read, learn and enjoy; for others it will be a significant and important part of their lives both socially and as a model boater who in many cases finds that his hobby isn't the choice of many. For me mixing and chatting is limited to two hours on a Sunday afternoon, particularly since the local model shop closed down (sound familiar??)
I increasingly enjoy the MBM site, it inspired me to go to Wicksteed Park for the first time last weekend. I'd like to thank Martin and all those who make it possible, I had a thoroughly good time and met some lovely, welcoming and skilled people. It was clear many were great friends of long standing - I wonder how many of those friendships began as exchanges through this site or similar?
So from me, newbie, it's a big thumbs up! Forums should be diverse, informative and sociable. MBM ticks the right boxes :-) :-)
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Nothing unusual there either. People move on. Sometimes they get interested in something like model boats and then change to something else. All Forums have their own 'ambience' or atmosphere and you do need to adapt to that. Some people find it difficult, others take a dislike to other members and simply stop posting. Some may just get bored!
Colin
also there is the saying "a picture is worth 1000 words", and as mayhem wont show images unless you are logged in, and to log in you need to be a member, a good deal of the users who have NOT posted have probably registered to view pics, then left again
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May I add my two cents worth here? I'm one of the members who lurks in the background, and I rarely post because I have really very little to contribute. I'm a boat modeller wannabe with very little time to try and make a model. The whole Mayhem site is a learning resource for me, about models, and also about how the members feel about happenings in their country, and their lives. I have been to England and Scotland many years ago, and loved it. The posts help me to understand the regular guy's attitudes to the changes over the years. This site has Informed me enormously about model boats, and I get to know a bit about some very interesting people who I wouldn't otherwise come in contact with.
Thank you all
I'm with you iron 99, I started building a PBM model ORSV (Weather Class) back in the eighties and it's STILL not finished !!
The inspiration I get from watching, from the sidelines,as it were, the work of the very, very good builders on this forum can't be underestimated.
Living as I do in Wet'nWindy Shetland, I don't suppose she will get her bottom wet much even if she doe's get built !!
Wild plans in the head for a LARGE freelance-type tug !!!!!
Thanks to ALL contributors to the forum -- you keep my dreams alive !
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Oops -- somehow managed to delete "quote" from iron 99 !
sorry
Vic
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I't the same at the club. Some people have a look round but don't join. Some do join but only come along for a few months, some give up after a year or two. Some come to every meeting but never utter a word.
Then someone will come along and within a couple of months is a major contributor to the club activities, always ready to help out etc. He may or may not make models but who cares, we're not going to complain.
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Ah you mean the people who have not got the GUTS to post under there own name, then claim it was there dog , Granddad , son who did it when found out.
Peter
well you do what one member does and register TWICE on Mayhem. That way there's always someone to agree with themselves. Registering twice and using two different names shouldn't be allowed. No doubt no i'll get a PM from this member with threatening overtones AGAIN!
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I forgot what i was really going to type... funny that...
But out of all the statistics being thrown in who really cares? i don't thre forum is a community to share ideas and help those who don't know the answers.
I'm a big believer in self help, don't get me wrong i will give advice in areas i know and its usually from experience in doing such things but i would like to see more posts with...
''Im new bla bla bla, im building this bla bla bla, i want to know how to do this bla bla bla, i have a rough idea about doing it like this.. bla bla bla, could this work or are there other ways?
There is so much information out there that can help people with no knowledge, in little time learn a lot and that's not even being on the forum!
Most of my knowledge is 2nd hand passed from father to son, the rest is skills learnt at college, work and trial and error, most 'newbies' i use that loosely, have limited knowledge and skills when model making, i myself started with RC cars, electrics, Nitro's and i scratch built a 1:5th scale car (everything but the running gear engine wheels etc.) but my time in boating is limited to only a few years, but the techniques are all the same regardless of the models made generally, but yet they may just need a bit of encouragement to get going.
I do think for a new person on the forum it can be overwhelming especially with some topics in the chit chat section, i love a good banter and rant sometimes ( and not afraid to type what i think) , but these sections can put off new members as they think were all stuck up twits ( i know i am!) and that is probably where some of the issues lie within these sections, Peter is right, if you don't like the topics don't read them or post in them, but some topics are hard not to post a feeling or comment sometimes and you end up getting shot down ( i do regularly!) these sections are highly moderated by admin, but i do think that maybe the forum could be better off with out them all together, ''not there no temptation'' even for those with more self control them myself {-)
The forum is a good source of information but some self help should be taken when information is provided to be sure its right to start with, remember the rule? ''measurer twice cut once..'' If i was honest ( to honest some times.. gets me into trouble!) i take all information from here as a pinch of salt until i can find evidence of its accuracy else where, there are very few i trust to provide information that i know will be accurate with out checking as anyone can just copy and paste information from another site with out checking what's really there and passing off info as their own.
If at all unsure do what i do, ask question... post reply's right or wrong, if your wrong you learn the right way soon enough! And just have a laugh about it. ( i do down the lake always a giggle about this place at times) End of the day your only a few pixels on a screen which don't mean a lot to anybody all that matters is your attempting to make an effort in the forum constructively most of the time and that is appreciated by everyone and those who don't, aren't worth knowing :-))
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I think I understand what you're saying, Roadrunner, but I also think that, in most cases, newbies who ask a question do get the information they're looking for. I know some people are too lazy to find out for themselves, and simply ask a question here hoping someone else will do the research for them, but I believe they are in the minority. I agree that some of the information given needs to be treated cautiously but, generally speaking, most of it is good, coming from experienced modellers only too willing to pass their knowledge on to others.
Peter.
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Whilst I agree in essence with the majority of commentary, we must not lose sight that all are different and do not have same abilities/results.
For example, I have trawled the web looking for answers to no avail but was amazed at the results posted by others, who have found the answer 'out there', where I couldn't. A few regular posters are in this catergory and I often wonder "how in the hell did he find that.
Yes some are lazy and don't want to reinvent the wheel, whereas others don't have the 'technical' know how.
Roadrunner, Nothing wrong with getting shot down so long as you remember to wear your flack jacket, parachute and pull the rip cord in time. %% %% {-) {-) {-)
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why do so many people seem anti answering questions unless the poster has trawled through the internet first. if i am able to help i do. isnt that what the forums are supposed to be about. :-)
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why do so many people seem anti answering questions unless the poster has trawled through the internet first. if i am able to help i do. isnt that what the forums are supposed to be about. :-)
Well said :-))
Peter.
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why do so many people seem anti answering questions unless the poster has trawled through the internet first. if i am able to help i do. isnt that what the forums are supposed to be about.
Well, if it is one of the more common questions then maybe it is fatigue! Answering what is basically the same question over and over again does take time and people may be reluctant to do this when the answer is maybe just a couple of search words away. Sometimes the best answer can be to direct the enquirer to the relevant topic but then you have done the searching for him!
Colin
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These days I usually point them too: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30624.msg302646#msg302646 :-))
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I agree with both sides here which don't make to much sense but you all make valid points. Me i will help anyway i can ( Martin proved that with the link %%) i don't mind answering question day in and out even if the same, i will link to posts that I've answered before as it saves writing it out again maybe that's a bit lazy but still it answer the question, where as many just get bored with the repetitiveness of it all.
Bait boats are a good example of the common question , which i did suggested a while back to Martin that maybe they should have there own section, but as the questions really are the same there is no point, just refer them to previous posts that answer the questions they ask.
Skill levels among people are varied, i like to think I'm in just below the professional level, (few more years needed yet.) But the knowledge is there and i don't mind sharing it. I've worked in the design and manufacturing areas for over 10 years now i have something to fall back on, where as many don't have that luxury or level of education in these area's, we forget that a lot of people doing these hobbies simply work in factory's or behind shop counters with very little or no education in design, mechanical, engineering etc. I have 2 of those 3 skills and i still worked in a factory for years until it was spotted i knew more then i let on.
This is why i wrote the 'using the search Facility' topic, (re-written by Martin) to encourage new people with some 'self help' and why i wrote the post which Martin refured to with the links the right places to help with out repetitive posting, its still help at the end of the day and in the right way.
I have a few motto's and one i use a lot ' If you don't have a go you will never learn' I have have no issues with showing or telling or doing it for someone, how its done right or wrong, but after a period of time i would expect this person to attempt it themselves and only look for reassurance of what there doing is right, then have the work done for them.
I don't know ifs its laziness, lack of effort to learn, lack of effort to try or they simply they don't know, but when a questions asked here isn't it better to answer it, even if its linking to places they may not have expected which will inevitably help them in the long run, i believe so.
Our hobbies are in threat of being killed off by not encouraging people to take it up, i've heard comments recently that '' oh modelling is an old man's hobby'' but at a recent show last weekend i had a few children no more then 5-8 ask me for a go on my tug which i let them, i encourage my daughter to do it, and i will my son once he's at an age where he can understand better. If i can get 1 person in my entire life to take up the hobby (even if its not boating) i know i did something right.
Schools no longer teach basic skills in metal work, the wood work they might learn is pathetic to be honest and a failing on the governments and educators side which i do think needs addressing.
Computers seam to be a way of life that's far to addictive in this day and age I've said this before, but in this instance with the forum if directed properly can and should be an invaluable source of information where people can learn, but its up to US to encourage that.
Lol that was long winded :P
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Schools no longer teach basic skills in metal work, the wood work they might learn is pathetic to be honest and a failing on the governments and educators side which i do think needs addressing.
Computers seam to be a way of life that's far to addictive in this day and age I've said this before,
Essentially I agree with that. My kids school does have a good DT dept but its only as good as the teacher. It is interesting to note that even the teacher regards my boys as "odd" and says so, because they can all solder, use a lathe, cut wood to length and MAKE stuff, all before he gets them in the DT labs!
My eldest son has just started GCSE s and his DT exam offered him a choice of stuff to make. He chose the only interesting piece, a single cylinder steam engine. All the other lads chose coffee tables and bookshelves and the like: most result, least effort!
I think forums like MBM are essential today though for helping out not just beginners but everyone, and all members need to understand their place, I think. On MBM for example I am almost always "on receive" because my forty years of modelling has been almost exclusively in the aircraft field. On the model and full size plane forums I give advice and help, on MBM I take it. Because of the these different positions in the food chain I try to moderate my activity: on MBM I try (honest I do!) to ask only the stuff I need to know and cant clarify on-line and I try to feed back what I did with the advice. All the advice re the Footy class stuff and latterly the Odyssey yacht was well received , ended up in models and on youtube. The advice was spread to my boys and beyond.
I intend to run some sort of build thread with my submarine too.
I do know that what annoys me on other forums is where people ask for advice then ignore it, or they just go away so one never knows whether the advice worked, or and maybe this is age, when they ask questions that can clearly be answered with a little effort on their part. I hate laziness, physical and intellectual.
To all the great helpers I have used here on MBM, thanks you! :-))
David
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dont let my wife see you at blackpool then you will have to explain your very insidious remark ...
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I am a also a Newbie here. After a month on the site I have found it informative, interesting, helpful & fun. I have a limited amount of time for my model boating, so the forum helps me to find answers quickly from the knowledgable modelers on here. That is why I joined as the information is compressed into a compact space & generally accurate. As a member I feel if I have expertise that can help another member I should pass it on unconditionally & not be second guessing that they should have found it for themselves, to me that is the main reason for the forum in the first place. I know very little about model boat building but lots on here do. I have always been flattered when someone asks me for information, why? because they are assuming that I know something that they don't. As an Auto Tech for some 48 years I have had a massive amount of exposure to things mechanical & related products. Among this information may be some that is revellant to our boat building hobby, I feel I have an obligation as a forum member to pass that knowledge on. I have found that most organisations also have a social side. Many of my friends have come from these sources. I would say to my fellow members, relax, learn from others, respect their points of view, be SLOW to criticise & QUICK to praise, Life will be much more enjoyable that way, Mick B.