Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Harald on June 04, 2011, 01:31:12 pm
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Hey out there,
I just received the kit from Mountfleet. In general it looks great, but I have two questions on the hull:
- there is a rubbing strake on the bow which goes up at the aft end. This looks quite uncommon for me. Can anyone proof this as correct for Clyde Puffers?
- The keel and the bottom are not straight/flat. Any hint, how to get this straight? My idea is to glue a strong piece of wood (e.g. 80mm wide, 20mm high) with polyester resin to the bottom?
Brgds,
Harald
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Not the first time i have seen a mount fleet with a twisted hull and inaccuracies on the mouldings, ( chairman of our clubs doing the danny boy from mount fleet, and hes not been impressed with the issues he's had)
You probably can straighten out the hull with a keel strip pinning it through the hull ( trim off later) and a combination of bulk heads to keep it in the right shape GRP these parts to the hull and once set the hull should straighten out with any luck.
As for the rubbing strake im not entirely sure if its supposed to be there or not, it may be according to the plan but originaly i don't know i would have assumed they be straight along the hull not angled, but every puffer was different (no two alike) so it could have been on the one the kits based off, maybe some type of strake to aid in breaking ice being at the right high and angle {:-{ after all it is a 'highlander'
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Unless its the camera angle, which it may be, it also seems that the upper most rubbing strake looks as straight as a donkeys hind leg
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I have to agree, the strake really is "xxxxx" as a fart, not uncommon for mountfleet I'm afraid, i have a feeling they blow the moulding out (compressed air) rather then use split moulds which if they do to early will make the whole thing 'off' as its still setting! i've seen keels bowed upwards you may want to check that, its a sure sign its been blown out rather then split apart, which may be the cause of the issues to start with.
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Hey,
the inaccurate hull is the one topic.
First question was, whether the marked strake is correct in general as it is going up from the stem as marked.
From my feeling this looks pretty wrong and I am considering to grind it off.
If somebody has a picture, that proofs it could be, then I can avoid that extra work.
Thanks for hints,
Harald
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On all photos i have found that would have relevance its not at that angle.. however i did say that it could have been on the one the plans were drawn up from as a possibility to be used as ice breaking no puffer was ever the same and some fitted out to deal with conditions locally to them so its is possible that it was on one at some point....
I spoke with Graham & Tilly of the Clyder puffer exhibit they host ( they used to post regularly in MB mag) and was explained that puffers were build and modified to suit the needs of location, and loads they worked in. I will see him then on the 25 of this month as there attending our show, i'll be sure to ask if he's seen one with the strake at that angle.
Just google Clyde Puffers and look through the images and see if you spot one with anything unusual that may give an explanation to its position and angle.
As i said i can only assume it was there as an ice breaking device.
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Harald the bow strake will be correct as roadrunner pointed out each boat was fitted to the needs of the owners.
these ships were designed and used not to be unloaded on piers but on being beached and unloaded when the tide was out then
re-floated at high tide. if the ship was beached that stake could then end up level-ish
possibly allowing horse and carts down to unload with out hitting them.... %)
this picture here of a clyde puffer the strakes go all angles
(http://www.scotland-pictures.com/images/vital-spark.jpg)
My advice is it is correct and enjoy your build :-)) :-))
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You could very well be right Gingyer, it would not surprise me to see a strake at that angle to stop damage from a horse and cart if beached, but i would have though it be longer as the cart would need to be half way down the hull to take the load off the dereck (think that the right term rather then boom) ?
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Hey Roadrunner and Gingyer,
I went through all photos on Clyde Maritime http://www.themackenzies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/puffers/puffer_index.htm and you are right, there are examples as 'ALFRED' showing what I expected and 'DANE(3)', 'LADY ISLE (2)' having a strake parallel to the ballast water line. So it could be! I guess it is for berthing alongside the pier at ballast but not for ice.
Thanks for your comments.
Harald
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Here's one at low tide....
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Hey,
the inaccurate hull is the one topic.
First question was, whether the marked strake is correct in general as it is going up from the stem as marked.
From my feeling this looks pretty wrong and I am considering to grind it off.
If somebody has a picture, that proofs it could be, then I can avoid that extra work.
Thanks for hints,
Harald
Harald,
What you must take into account is that this kit is only representative of a Clyde Puffer, there never was a puffer named HIGHLANDER, the rubbing strakes were there to prevent damage to the hull when berthing at stone quarry slipways and along with the rough weather in the West Coast to prevent hull damage.
When off loading on beached sand the derrick was used to off load into horse drawn carts and no damage was encountered by the carts.
In all of my researches when I scratch built my Puffer, which is featured in the steam section ,I have never come across the lower bow strake at the angle of yours,
You can have that strake but it is higher at the bow dropping to the stern more or less opposite to yours.
Having looked at the Mountfleet web site and the picture gallery the funnel should be at 90 deg to the boiler housing, the windows in the wheel house are wrong and should have much thinner window uprights and the toilet was never up on the bow of the boat but was mounted at the rear of the boat just aft of the boiler room door on the starboard side.
I live in the town KIRKINTILLOCH where many Puffers were built on the canal and we have a very good reference library which features many boats built here and no doubt if the Mountfleet model was further studied more inaccuracies would be found.
If you were to grind off the lower strake it may damage the plating pattern but no doubt you could rebuild them up.
Go ahead and build your model but it would never win prizes as a true to scale model as there never was a full size Highlander.
I don't know what you could do to straighten out the keel.
I hope that this will help you to decide on the inaccurate bow strake.
George.
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Harold,
Here is a link to SPARTAN built at Kirkintilloch. http://www.smha.org.uk/index.php?pr=Spartan (http://www.smha.org.uk/index.php?pr=Spartan) now at the Maritime Museum at Irvine.
Link to my puffer Skylight in R&D not steam. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24818.0
George
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George,
thanks for you reply.
It is not my goal to do an exact rebuild, but just a boat, that could have been build.
This strake just looks wrong from the angle to me and I ll probably remove it.
Brgds,
Harald
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Hi Harald.
Sorry I didn't mean that you were going to build to exact scale but anybody who did wouldn't win any prizes.
Yes the strake looks decidedly odd and like you I would remove it.
It would appear that Mountfleet have taken a bit of artistic licence and designed the Puffer to suit themselves.
I don't know much about this model, what scale is it, all Forth and Clyde canal boats were 66ft long to fit into the lock gates.
I built mine to 1/2" scale giving a boat of 33 inches long and with the steam plant installed it still required quite a bit of ballast to get it down to the water line that I wanted.
Must say that it was a great little sailor, as a young apprentice engineer I used to spend my lunch break talking to the skippers of these little boats that docked at Kingston Dock in the center of Glasgow, dock now filled in and houses built on the site.
I look forward to your build and if I can be of any help let me know.
George.
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I did it - Could not stay with this strake.
In addition I changed the transom and reduced the shaft bossing to the size of the propeller hub.
To flatten the bottom I glued a 10mm plate to it - at least helped a little. Also a partial bulkhead at aft end of the hatch helped to get the sides straight.
Brgds,
Harald
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Looking good, very good! :-))
What is the new streak made of, plasticard & wood?
Also, you might want to beef up the lower rudder support beam, it's only made of money metal and very prone to bending / damage.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242.msg38959#msg38959
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Hey Martin,
Grinded the old strake and then first build up the shape with the plates with car filler. For the strake I used bend wood with super glue and then styrene angles glued with something called Ruderer L530. Finally the gaps filled with car filler.
Brgds,
Harald
P.S.
I met Jan some time ago and had a look on your build. This fixed the decision to buy the Highlander.
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Harald
Impressive work so far! You obviously pay great attention to detail - and I for one am looking forward to watching the rest of the build.
The bilge pump would seem also to indicate that you plan ahead for all eventualities! Are you intending to operate it with an electronic sensor or a float switch?
Mike
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Hey Mike,
the pump is to simulate the cooling water circuit. On most pictures you can see the cooling water outlet.
Just received from the first 'yard trials' on our local 'canal'.
Engine works, steering gear via the chains worked and also the cooling water pump.
As you can see, I modified also the deck house (changed the location of the doors). I want to build an open steering bridge and still looking for sketches/pictures. Does anybody can help??
Brgds,
Harald
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Harald
My mistake! That's a good idea. Presumably you're drawing water in from below the waterline and passing it through a fliter. I'm in the process of fitting a bilge pump in my 1:32 scale Northlight but opted for a windscreen washer pump which turns out to be non self priming! I think it will draw too much current to have it running all the time, even at half voltage.
Your 'canal' makes her look as if she's sailing up the Amazon in the middle of the jungle! Having said that, she looks resplendent.
Your steering arrangement looks very cunning - are you using 2 servo's?
Like you, I have had to re-arrange the deck-house openings but in my case it's to accommodate the steering chain. (I'm also planning to drive the steering wheel with the same servo.)
Keep the pictures coming!
Mike
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Hey Mike,
yes, I use two servos (where anyway in the box). It is to have plenty of space for stem generator. Still looking for a good solution on this as well as for a good sound generator.
There is no filter on the pump, just a 'normal' sea chest on port.
Brgds,
Harald
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Hello Harald,
good decision to rebuild the rubbing strake :-))
Looks all good to me so far :-)
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Hey All,
some progress on the superstructure.
This kit is really not for beginners. E.g. the aft tank. There is just a note on the plan: make a block out of 3 pieces wood. It would not fit to the dimensions. I did from Styrenen boards. I also could not find the description for the ventilator/air intake. The base fits for 8mm Pipe, the head for 6mm. I made a short fillet of 8mm wood and a 6mm brass pipe. There is a 5mm hole through the deck and the whole thing sits on a 5mm brass pipe - gives good strength.
At the steam whistle I cut the pin at the lower end and drilled a 2mm hole to fit the whistle directly on the rod. Now its also nice strong.
Several other bits which do not really fit - but anyway a nice kit!
Harald
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Harald
Impressive progress! Looks really good. Do you have 10 switches across the bulkhead or are they connectors?
Mike
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Hey Mike,
I hate to work on the electronics inside the boat. Therefor all electronics are mounted on an extra plate to be put into the forward part of the hold.
The switches are
- main
- receiver
- Motor
- Cooling water pump
- Steam generator
- sound
- whistle
- navigation lights
- other lighting
- spare
The last 7 can be switched by RC or via the manual switches
The idea is to have access to the switches without opening anything. The aft part of the hold will be partial open hiding the switches.
Holiday is over so the next weeks there will be hardly progress on the build.
Harald
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Harald
Very neat and well organised!
I'm retired, so life should be one long holiday for me! - but it doesn't seem to work like that!!
Mike
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Nicely done, i like a clear layout.
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Hey out there,
I found some time working on the winch.
As I could not understand, that always all warping heads and the drum were working simultaneously, I added some clutches on the drum axes and tried to simulate sliding gears on the steam engine axle.
It's just my phantasies, but unfortunately I could never got hold of a picture or drawing of these winches.
What is your opinion - just rubbish or not too unrealistic?
Brgds,
Harald
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Harald
Not rubbish or unrealistic! Here is part of a letter received from Nick Walker in response to my questions. (Nick is skipper of the VIC32 - see www.savethepuffer.co.uk)
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/photomultiplier/DSC01489.jpg)
Here is a distant picture of the winch (although, as Nick says, not used in quite the same way as originally).
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/photomultiplier/DSC01490.jpg)
If I had known, when we were on board, that I was going to make a model, I would have got more details!
Regards,
Mike
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Hello Harald , I have one or two pictures of VIC32 for info. The funnel should be vertical as has been pointed out. I also have a couple of short videos of the water pulsing out of the hull on the aft portside. I can put them on Youtube if you want. Sorry I dont have winch pictures but your version is very typical I believe :-)) The multi-whistle musical what-sit on VIC32`s funnel isnt typical, but sweet :} There used to be a vdeo of it`s steam powered gramophone, worth a search. Watching with interest as your build progresses.
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...and from the stern plus a glimpse inside at the boiler and top of engine.
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Hi Duncan
I see you managed to get your springer in half the pictures %) - You could get where water couldn't mate {-)
Seriously though I think it's great how very much modellers want to get details correct wherever possible
and also the help that so quickly comes their way :-))
Here's an old picture I am thinking of using as a desktop .........but I'd like to photoshop out the second vessel passing.
(http://s9.postimage.org/ndrfyjciz/Working_Puffer.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ndrfyjciz/)
Regards Dave
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Now here's a coincidence!
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad338/photomultiplier/scan0002.jpg)
Mine taken c. 1996 - nice to see they're still keeping her clean!
Mike
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Hi Duncan
cut
Here's an old picture I am thinking of using as a desktop .........but I'd like to photoshop out the second vessel passing.
(http://s9.postimage.org/ndrfyjciz/Working_Puffer.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ndrfyjciz/)
Regards Dave
Hi Dave
How about this one. Did it in 15 mins for you
regards
Ken
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Thanks Ken - thats brilliant - gotta go now - off to work
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Unfortunately you now have a Puffer with no wheel house.
George.
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How about this....
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/brianc_023/Working_Puffer.jpg)
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Pulsing water outlet videos now on MacSpringer`s channel on Youtube. There was a discussion on how to achieve this before. Any links ?
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Brian,
Gonnie no dae that, it's MAGIC.
R.O.
You are quite correct in that the funnel on Puffers should be square to the engine room casing.
Don't know where Mountfleet get the sloping funnel from, in Kirkintilloch we have a very good reference library on the building of these boats on the canal and with all of the research that I did when building my steam driven SKYLIGHT I never came across a Puffer with a sloping funnel.
George.
P.S. I like the Springer puffer.
How many Springers do you have ?
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Unfortunately you now have a Puffer with no wheel house.
George.
:embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Sorry about that.
Artistic liscence
ken
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Is that RO as in flat-top or Red Russian ? How many...lemmysee, thers Eeni, Meeny n` Mo. .. Hmmm just did a count and I think I might have fixation complex or similar. Total Might be seven but gets complicated when you consider the ones with alternate deck and superstructure ie; MacSpringer and Spruffy two tops sharing one hull. Same for HMS Sprub and the new Orca, sorry Porker. I dont count the unfinished stretched (doubled length) one and the King sized kit in the garage (a X4 sized manned version, yes I can squeeze intae it). So you see I`m not really a boat modeller more of a Springerite. The list is 1. Maid`o Irn, 2. MacSpringer/Spruffy, 3,Fireboat "Sprinkler", 4,Swedish stealth patrol boat "Stringer", 5, H M Coastguard vessel "Springberry", 6,Workboat/log wrangler "Wildcat" , 7.Sprub/Porker. Stretched is pending, it was going to be an aircraft carrier and big yin def a springtime project. Then there is the wandering adopted kid , the real RO , now wintering in Helsinki. Back to lums on Puffers, looking through The MacKenzies photos there seems to be a few with a slight ( 2degree ?) rake on the funnel, might be a photographic aberration of course.
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Dear Corposant, Arrow et al,
thanks for the pictures and comments!
Bad luck for me, that I put the funnel already with a serious angle on the deck house - I used good superglu so I am afraid what happens when removing the funnel. I have to think about.
Brgds
Harald
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I searched again the pics of Clyde Marien and found the attached of 'Acolite'.
So every now and then quite angled funnels existed.
By the way, I plan to build an open bridge like on the 'Acolite'. Does anyone has more detailed pictures/sketches of such a bridge?
Thanks,
Harald
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Hi Harald
Over ballast forward and your funnel becomes pependicular - - - sorry I just couldn't resist the joke.
I'll be serious now; I think that if you don't put the funnel right, you will see the mistake every time you look at the puffer,
............... and there will always be someone asking about it's angle.
Regards Dave
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Hi Harald
I was just scrolling through this and thought you might like to look at it too.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bxeAtCLEr5wC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=Acolyte+puffer&source=bl&ots=an1SsyR9Nc&sig=dFAtH7ASGOQ5r3IK_w6lzpN63LE&hl=en&ei=7OHCTuDPF6yL4gSpnfmBDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Regards Dave
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Well I think you should base your model on Acolite and keep a copy of the photograph to stick it under the rivet counters noses ! :-))
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Hi Harald,
I used good superglue on mine (ZAP Flex).... and it snapped clean off with just a one sharp knock! :o
Dear Corposant, Arrow et al,
thanks for the pictures and comments!
Bad luck for me, that I put the funnel already with a serious angle on the deck house - I used good superglu so I am afraid what happens when removing the funnel. I have to think about.
Brgds
Harald
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Hy Guy's
The book Norseman refered to ie,,, The light in the Glens, is an excellent and informative read, but if you can get hold of
The Clyde Puffer by Dan McDonald that is a gem of information, and has plentyt of pic's. You can get it from Amazon, but they do vary in price.
Bosun
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Bosun - it's on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9781858770048-The-Clyde-Puffer-Dan-McDonald-/320766563870?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item4aaf2d561e for £7.72 inc delivery
Dave
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There are also some Puffer documents on Scribd - I think they can be downloaded
http://www.scribd.com/search?query=clyde+puffer
Dave
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My apologies to all of those members who have built the M.F.H. with the funnel at the jaunty angle, having extensively researched Puffers before building my Skylight I had never come across one with the funnel at an angle , all had been square to the engine room casing and I assumed wrongly that they all should have been square to the casing.
Having seen the pic of the ACOLITE and now I have found one of TOWARD LASS with the angled funnel I stand corrected.
All of the M.F.H. that have been posted are all to a very high standard so well done.
NORSEMAN can you read the name of the Puffer that you have posted the pic of and Brian has altered it for you.
George.
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George
It's "Glenrosa". No, I can't read it - I cheated!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertbeale/3315969479/in/gallery-scottishmaritimemuseum-72157624803113270/
Mike
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That was very well done Mike
I have a whole list of things you can 'cheat' on
Dave
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Nice collection of photographs. I notice that the puffer behind "Logan" in the last photograph has a distinct tilt backwards.
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Nice one
I looked through all my info on Puffer's and I could;nt find it :-))
Bosun
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Looking closely at that picture, looks like the name of the tilted lum one has been obliterated. Wonder why...Para Handy`s Q ship when it wass on Admiraality service ? 8)
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Dear All,
I would like to build my HGHLANDER with an open bridge.
Technical elements will be the same as on the closed one, but there some open questions:
- What will the floor be, I guess wood
- Is the bulwark an outer plus inner wall or just outer and the substructure can be seen from the inside?
- How did these heavy tarpaulin windshield work in detail?
- does anybody has closer pictures of an open bridge?
Any hint is appreciated.
Brgds,
Harald
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Floor of steering position might be a wooden grating to keep steersman`s feet off wet floor in rain, just a guess. Bulwark single skin, triangular support would be visible. Search on this site for Loch Lomond Mail boat to see canvas windshield, not a puffer but a visual clue.
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Posted by marinemole under title " Mailboat `Marion` on Loch Lomond", lots more pictures on that thread.
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Harald
There are a lot of puffer pictures (mainly models) associated with Martin's build of Jan's "Maid of Scotland", which is accessed from "My builds" on the left hand menu of the MBM start page. (Click on the picture, NOT "Puffer pictures"!)
This picture supports Arrow5's suggestion of a wooden grating on the floor:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Builds/Puffer_Jan/Puffer_pictures/thumbnails/tnDCP_6391.JPG Sorry, a bit small! - it's the tenth one in.
At least one other person has had the same idea!
A good website for Puffer pictures is:
http://themackenzies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/puffers/puffer_index.htm
Early puffers are shown with a tiller arm or wheel mounted at the stern. I couldn't find any close-ups but Cretan (1) [and a few others] shows an open bridge.
Mike
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Dear Mike,
thanks for the link to the puffer pictures - the VITAL LIGHT is just great and show what I am looking for.
Hopefully to find time to continue the build soon (Good luck Christmas holidays are coming).
Brgds,
Harald
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Harald
The "Vital Light" is a build of Caldercraft's 1:32 scale "Northlight" - which is the puffer I am building. If I could introduce that degree of realism to my model, I would be a happy man!
Looking forward to the next stage in your build.
Mike
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I'm also building one of these "kits" and have been for 3 years >>:-( .... keep getting pulled away with life.. anyway I have found another picture of a leaning funnel here http://themackenzies.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/puffers/VIC11_Zulu.htm or looks like it's leaning anyway.
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Dear All,
thanks for your hints and examples.
I continued with a quite boring job: thee inner bulwark.
Then started the hatch which is complete own construction as I did not like these knees below the horizontal stiffener.
The hatch is all styrene plates and profiles plus some extra angle bars I got from MFM. The aft end of the hatch shall be left open to nearly the bottom. Just have a look and comment.
Harald
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Some more work done.
Does anyone has a contact of a company printing individual decal for name, load line mark, draught marks?
Harald
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Looking better and better Harald - well done!
Sorry, can't help you with the info. you require.
Mike
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you can get Plastic raised lettering, I think Dean's Marine sell it....
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Lettering and load lines.
http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Vinyl-Lettering-And-Hull-Markings.html
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http://www.modellettering.co.uk/
Barry will make up the name on one sheet for easy alignment
'Support your local Sponsors'
Ned
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http://www.modellettering.co.uk/
'Support your local Sponsors'
Ned
I did Ned
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OK Richard
We have two sponsors :-)) :-))
I mentioned Barry as he will make exactly what you need
instead of buying sheets of letters to make up names.
Ned
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OK, I've used Barry on many occasions, a very nice man to deal with, very helpful and quick service.(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Dear Dicky, Ned, Martin,
Thanks for the links!
I am still not 100% sure about the name and home port.
As I live in the marsh, my idea is "Maid of the Marsh". "Marshlight" is another idea but sounds quite strange to me.
The village I am living is named ECKLAK which means Oak trees at a lake. So my idea for the home port is "Loch Oak" but I am looking for the Gallic or Scottish name of Oak. Any idea?
Also other suggestions are welcome.
Brgds,
Harald
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Another detail solved - the working wash ports.
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In Scottish Gaelic the word for oak is darach (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/drinking25.gif)
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Marshlight would be very suitable. The puffers sailing out of Greenock had "light" incorporated in the name. Craigendarrach is an inland village and perhaps too localised for a puffer. Gaelic names were considered a bit old fashioned.
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Hey put there,
started the fore deck - margin planks are boring. The next step will be more smooth hopefully.
Regards,
Harald
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Hi Harald
I'm still tagging along in the background and enjoying your build.
I like the way you made the moving wash ports O0
I think I will use that one day - what wire / gauge was that?
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I think it's 0.5mm silver covered wire usually sold for making 'jewelry'. I had some spare - it is in the box since about 40 years. Never throw something in the waste. One day you will need it.
Harald
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Happy New Year and a lot of good ideas for your models
Harald