Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Andy M on May 02, 2006, 01:48:18 PM

Title: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 02, 2006, 01:48:18 PM
For a few years now, I have wanted to build a Lesro Javelin,but never got round to it,lack of a marine engine helped keep the project from starting. Then my friend and I were talking one day and I mentioned that I had always wanted to build a Javelin,but had no engine.He told me he had a Honda 8 HP generator engine,why not make one to sit in.I have already built a yacht scaled up from Vic Smeed's Starlet,but now I feel the need for speed.I messed about with Photoshop and put meself in the picture so to speak. The first attempts made the boat too long to use standard sheets of ply( 10 foot sheets are available at ?65 each!) so I shortened it a bit,widened it a bit to take two people and re drew things a bit to bring all the elements together.The end result was a quarter scale drawing of what I wanted.There is still a bit of the Javelin in there ,but it is not much. I then joined big bits of card and drew a full size plan. I knew one of my friends had a sheet each of 12mm and 18mm marine ply that he was going to build a Starlet from,but had sidelined the project due to circumstances.It had the main parts marked on the 18mm bit which actually caused me to start following his line with the jigsaw!.I had cut about 1/4 inch before realising!Nobody's perfect!  I ended up swapping an unused 'Midknight' airframe for the two sheets. The ply had been kept in a shed with a broken window,and was a bit discoloured and ragged at the edges, but basically sound.The Project was under way!
 A week or so in the back garden has brought things to the stage you see in the first mock up. I used dowels to show lines,but I still dont know what to use , it has quite tight curves to bend round. I even thought about using dowels laminated and planed down a bit.I still have a bit  to do before I have to decide. Hope you like what I have done so far,it has caused one argument already! Wardrobe building will always come second! Anyway, the project is under way and I even did an artists impression to keep me going and also to decide a colour scheme,usually the most difficult choice. 

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 03, 2006, 04:58:27 PM
I was wondering if anyone knew how to work out prop diameter and pitch for  8 HP @ 2500rpm in a 7foot 4inch boat, I want speed! (if possible with only 8 HP!) any help would be appreciated.
Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Peter Cobban on May 28, 2006, 07:54:21 PM
Excellent Project

I drew out the lines for a Riva type at 10ft long. I was going to power ir with a 15hp outboard which soves propellor selection.

What I would try is to use a 10hp outboard prop, and amchine the propshaft to suit.

Also have a look at "How to design a boat by John Teale. Lots of lovely graphs and other vital information.

Keep us posted on how it all goes, it looks fine so far. In terms of bending, try using two thicknesses of ply, ie 4mm. You will find it easier. If you use quality exterior ply and epoxy resin as a glue you will avoid the expense of marine ply. Pay particular attention to sealing the end grain, and prime wih three or four coats of marine quality varnish.

Best of luck

peter

Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 31, 2006, 11:52:14 PM
Here are some more up to date photos,it was just slotted together for the first photos,these photos show it glued,sanded and ready to start fitting the skins. Due to my friend being busy at work,I think the hull may be ready before the powerplant.I thought about this when I was designing it and have provision to fit an outboard.If anyone has an 8-10 HP outboard for sale/swap/part exchange,I have a large selection of boats and aircraft for sale/swap/part exchange.I have been offered a seagull outboard of about 2-3 HP which will do for testing,but I had hoped to go a bit fast! It doesn't really have the look I was wanting, either,still,I am sure I will have fun,I have a 3 1/2 year old daughter who asks me daily 'is it finished yet,daddy? If you would like to see some of the models I have , look in 'your models' Andy McGarrity. on mayhem. Keep on building, Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 31, 2006, 11:56:09 PM
More photos taken after a hard days sanding! Definatey a bit easier sanding a model!l
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 17, 2006, 01:12:54 PM
Plenty of progress while weather is good,it's a bit hot at times in my plastic gazebo/shed complex.I have now finished designing and making my steering and throttle arrangements.I bought a seagull outboard from a neighbour,which will be my power unit until we make the outdrive unit for the 8HP honda generator engine.That was the original plan anyway,it was designed for an inboard,to keep it low looking,but I also designed in the ability to use an outboard whenever my friend wanted his generator engine back- he wont sell me it as he is an engine collector! The seagull outboard doesn't actually look too bad.I like the simplicity! Ever tried servicing a modern motorbike? The engine wasn't running when I got it,but about 1/2Hr had it running! Hope you like my project so far.Soon I will be fitting the sideskins which will probably be the hardest clamping job ever! Any suggestions?? Dont say planking!? Have fun, Andy M.           P.s.The centre join on bottom sheeting has still to be sanded to shape!
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 27, 2006, 11:08:14 PM
I thought I would add some pictures to show what stage I have got to so far.Weather has been good and I have got quite a bit done,the photos show what I had to do to clamp the side in place. I used two ratchet straps,two lengths of rope,9 large g-clamps,about 12 smaller g-clamps,about 50 bits of wood ,30 metres of bungee cord and,looking at the photo,one of my sanding blocks! It all stayed on until the glue set and I was quite pleased with the join. I hope I can get it as good when I do the other side,I am going to leave that until I have the interior varnished. I have finished varnishing my floor panels and the pulleys for the steering.I was lying inside it today,varnishing,it was a bit cramped towards the bow.I also started my upholstery for the seat,as a change from varnishing. I am making cockpit side cushions/shoulder padding? so I did one of these first, before tackling the main seat. I was impressed with the result,the back of it doesn't look quite as good,but will be hidden anyway. Next instalment soon. I still haven't thought of a name for it,I dont think it looks anything like a Lesro Javelin any more, what do you think?? Can you think of a good name?? ? If anyone wants to aid my varnish fund,you could check out? my models for sale,I have (too) many to choose from,aircraft and boats,boats can be seen on 'your models' - andy mcgarrity .? Hope you fancy something. Keep on building , Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 06, 2006, 05:54:31 PM
Progress has been good,I now have all the skins on and have started on the spray rails,I had to resort to using softwood,well steamed and screwed to hull on a bead of woodglue and superglued.Probably not conventional boatbuilding technique,but it has worked! I will try to post some photos next time,I still have a lot of varnishing and sanding ahead of me.I am going out now to fit my side spray rail.(dont know correct term) keep on building, Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 23, 2006, 06:38:45 PM
Here are the latest photos of my progress with the boat.

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 23, 2006, 06:46:54 PM
Looking good Andy.

Martin.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Peter Cobban on July 23, 2006, 07:56:27 PM
What a cracking little boat.
I used softwood for the rubbing strips on the tender that I built for the Yacht. So far, I have no trouble, but I did seal them with resin and the gave them approximately ten coats of paint.

Keep going it looks great.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 28, 2006, 10:55:38 AM
The weather has been very good so I should not have been surprised to see rain when I opened the curtains this morning.Today I am not worried about leaks in my polyhut, my boat is waterproof! I have painters wrist and sanders cramp,so today I am going to have a bit of a rest while I decide what to do next. I was nearly going to change my colour scheme to yellow and white instead of my original idea of yellow and black,but I had the paint sitting there,so black it is. I think the black makes the hull look lower,I might just be imagining it though.This is one of the hardest parts of a project to decide,I did think of having blue on it as well,but financial constraints meant only two colours.These pictures show it with white undercoat on the bottom.

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 28, 2006, 11:07:12 AM
Now black on the bottom,still lots to do , but I am getting the urge to head for the water,getting close now. I have a small amount of work to do on my windscreen,which should enhance things a bit,I also have to paint the cockpit edge and the inside of the nose vents.After that, I can re-fit all the other bits. Anyone got a 5-10 HP engine for a test? I am still not that confident that the seagull outboard will be enough,it should still be fun,but the option of speed would be good. Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 28, 2006, 11:22:29 AM
Here are the photos that were supposed to be with the text!

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 07, 2006, 04:59:53 PM
Here are the latest photos, I still have quite a few things to do,but it could go on the water now. I have had an offer of transport to the water next weekend,so I will have to find out about getting it registered for Loch Lomond. Andy M. p.s. Thats not the steering wheel I am going to use!

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 07, 2006, 05:48:18 PM
Fantastic! Show us the mota!  ;)

Martin

Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 07, 2006, 10:01:06 PM
More photos

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 07, 2006, 10:03:42 PM
More photos

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 07, 2006, 10:18:04 PM
I forgot which photos were which, so here are some photos of the motor. It is a British seagull forty plus mk2 , 64cc of raw power! It is rated at 1 1/2 -2 1/2 HP. British horsepower,that is, so I don't expect too much in the way of speed,I must find a bigger outboard ,or continue with the outdrive unit and inboard motor. I hope to get out in it soon, so I will post more photos and tell you how it goes. If anyone is interested in making one or a model of one,send a message, 1/4 scale gives a 22 inch long 'easy build' scale model. There are 196 separate pieces of wood in it.       Andy Macyam

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 08, 2006, 12:58:10 AM
Just to show how it was started, I have my original Photoshopped picture with my head on a shortened Lesro javelin photo and the final (nearly finished) photo. I will have to get someone to take a photo on the water at the same angle. Andy M.      Go on! Make one.

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on August 08, 2006, 02:22:03 AM
I dont like where the propshaft comes out..............Unless its going to be jet drive.....Peter
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 08, 2006, 03:58:12 PM
Don't worry, I didn't fancy that either, so I was going to put the engine behind me and run a chain up to top of transom to shaft driving toothed belt onto prop. Toothed belt to run down inside of square section steel drive strut.It is a lot easier to use the outboard,but centre of gravity ends up a lot higher. I need to wait until my friend has spare time at work before I can start on the out drive,it is already designed.The 8 HP generator engine is in my shed, waiting,it even starts first pull!  It will still be fun with the Seagull outboard. Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 11, 2006, 11:07:06 AM
Had an offer of transport to Loch Lomond yesterday , so I got prepared and by 8pm I was launching my boat. I had phoned about registration and was able to do it at the ranger 's office where I was launching.I was given my set of registration numbers, which,when placed with minimal gaps, are still over 2 feet long, a bit out of scale for the size of boat, motorcyclists usually fit a small plate,so I may be forced to tweak the size a bit.Anyway,back to the fun bit. I got in and tried to start the motor,but was being blown back to shore,so my friend pushed me out again and it started next pull. The waves were no problem,it felt really stable and a bit on the slow side, not a speedboat yet! I had a cruise about and did some turning on the spot,which it is very good at, it turns in it's own length.I came back in and picked up my passenger,which was a bit of a wobbly process until he was seated, enough room  for us and lifejackets! We headed out a bit,round a couple of bouys and cruised about for a while ,before coming back in. The only water in it was from our feet,I am glad to say. The Seagull engine was not as fast as I had hoped ,but will be suitable for taking my daughter out. There are still a few things I can try with the motor to make sure it is running at it's peak performance.(Has anyone run a Seagull on methanol? Will it explode?) Apart from the speed thing,I am pleased with the boat, It looks a lot better than a rowing boat with an outboard,and with a bit more power,I may even get it planing.I need to wait until my wife  gets the photos off her camera,but I will post them as soon as I can. Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: BobF on August 11, 2006, 01:12:23 PM
Hi Andy,

The British Seagull engine was designed for torque rather than speed. The entire range of which yours is one from smallest the Forty Minus was the baby, never gave speed, but there was an advert picture they used back in the sixties, with a Seagull Century Plus (or it may have been a 102) fitted to the rudder of a full size barge.

I had a 2hp Johnson fitted to a seven foot mini speed boat which nearly got on the plain.

Bob
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 14, 2006, 02:11:21 PM
Here are some photos of the launch.Sorry for poor quality,it was the wife's camera,I will try to get some pictures with my own camera on my next trip,if I can get someone to take me.I really should build a car! Or a trailer for the bike! Andy M.

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: dougal99 on August 15, 2006, 11:11:18 AM
...Sorry for poor quality,it was the wife's camera,....! Andy M.

Is this a veiled comment on SWMBO ability to take photos or is it a camera that can't focus ??? ??? ;D ;D

Doug (heading for cover)
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 15, 2006, 12:35:38 PM


How was it on the water then? ???

Martin

 
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 15, 2006, 10:57:19 PM
Wife did video as well, so I can't complain, it is a poor camera, video made up for it. I must say that it went well on the water,it was not as fast as I had hoped,entirely due to the motor not being a high revving type,I felt that it was getting close to planing ,but I really need a shot of a bigger engine to see if that will do the trick.I don't want to buy a 5 hp outboard then find it needs 10 hp.On the other hand, I don't want a 10 hp if 5 is enough to scare the stuff out of you! The good thing is that I know it floats and copes with fairly big waves with no sense of instability,the seagull engine will do for a while,more suited to taking my daughter for cruises. I am not calling it a speedboat yet , just a boat. I have built it to last,and take bigger engines,either inboard or outboard, and this is reflected in it's weight,but this is mostly low in the hull,so it doesn't roll much. I am very happy with the result, and I think it looks about as good as you can make a 7 foot by 4 foot boat look.It has used up quite a few unusual parts in it's construction and there is a lot of scope for tinkering with it.I was working on my new steering wheel today and it is nearly ready for varnish/paint ,still not sure about finish. I will post photos of it anyway. I also need a good graphic of a viper to finish off me nose(bow). Can't wait to go out again. (Maybe get some decent photos!)  Andy M.   
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 18, 2006, 11:19:25 AM
 I have finished most of the vital bits and am now starting to experiment a bit. The motor looks at home in there, I just need to sort out the outdrive system.What's the biggest modelling outdrive available?Would it take 8 HP? I know the glider guiders are getting into half scale models,why not boaters? Most of the stuff I have seen for full size boats is too big and heavy.My friend has suggested using nylon as the main casing material,I really wanted it to be able to take my brother's RG250 Suzuki engine,it spat him off and he doesn't like riding it anymore,so it could be available.The only thing is ,that it has been bored to 300cc and tuned,it is well over 30HP and would make the boat a bit more of a Viper! I will use the seagull until I can work out what to do. The bearing cover and steering wheel centre are Nescafe lids, I like to recycle. It's cheap too! Still hoping to get out at the weekend for a cruise. Andy Macyam.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 19, 2006, 08:41:48 PM
 I managed to get out on the water today, got some on board video and a couple of photos that were almost the same,so here is the best one. My building/ transporting trolley collapsed due to ratchet straps, so I need to start designing and building another,better one.The water was a bit calmer today and I had a 14 stone passenger aboard with no problems. I will need to save up for a bigger engine to get the performance that I want . Andy M.

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 25, 2006, 02:51:55 PM
A couple of photos of the finished steering wheel, I decided to just varnish it to show how it was made. Another coffee jar lid finishes it off nicely. Also in the picture are- auxilliary power unit(paddle) throttle lever and steering pulley. I am now trying to work out how I am going to make the outdrive. Andy M.

[Too Large - attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on November 20, 2006, 10:13:03 PM
I have been quite busy over the last month,I have managed to find the ideal engine for my boat,I am still in the process of making it from the two very dead engines that were going to form part of a landfill site.I have done a lot of work so far,but still plenty to do.I have no gurantee that it will run,I am reserving judgement untill I hear it fire up. One of the engines looked as if it had been used to mix cement. Both engines have been used in the sea and are full of what I call sea crust.I will post a 'before' picture soon,and tell you what it is,it's a lot faster than a Seagull anyway.I have also done a couple of model boats in the month before I got entangled with my engines! Keep on building,model or full size as long as you enjoy it. Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on December 04, 2006, 11:46:38 PM
Here are the 'before' pictures of my outboard as promised. It is an Evinrude 9.9 made in 1983. Note 'cement' ! I have done a lot of work on it since the photos were taken, I have a couple of threads to be helicoiled and a couple of broken studs to be extracted,apart from these and the parts that broke on disassembly,I think it is going well! I still dont know if the motor is going to run,but I dont see why not ,unless the ignition unit is fried. Everything has been cleaned inside and out. I will post more photos soon. It actually looks better in the photos than it actually was.
Has anyone out there got a dead one of these motors or even a 15 as I would be interested in buying for spares?  Have fun, Andy M       P.S.could you chant 'start you b****** ' for me as I think it really helps.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on December 08, 2006, 10:25:19 PM
Here's what I have done so far, I need to save up for the bits I need before I can put the internals back in. Until that happens,I have plenty still to do,throttle and steering attachment and fuel tank as well as kill switch. The motor is going to stay on the boat as I don't fancy wading in with it and trying to get it on the transom and get everything connected with it moving about. There is no real rush as I don't really fancy Loch Lomond at this time of year, a decent sized splash would probably put you in shock. It looks a bit more of a speedboat now,the motor takes a bit of the shortness away. I am looking forward to trying my extra power! Hope you like my creation, I will probably build a model of it after I run out of things to do on the outboard. 1/4 scale boat less than 2 feet long. Model style construction, inboard or outboard. Have fun , Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: martno1fan on December 10, 2006, 04:07:04 PM
Andy id like to say well done on the build mate i was a time served boat builder some years back and you did a great job.id say the 9 hp outboard will give you good speed i had a 15 johnson outboard on a much larger plywood speed boat some years back that had seats for 5 in it and she got up on plane easy.she also ran faster with a 10 hp mercury engine.the mercury engine was a fantastic engine if you can get one of those on ebay jump on it they are wicked.you might also want to resisze your pics as i see they were too large you can download a free one from windows .well done on the build mate top job  ;).
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on December 28, 2006, 11:05:48 PM
thanks for the compliment,don't get many of these. most people say I have too much time on my hands! Things are at a bit of a standstill at the moment as I have to save up for outboard spares before I can go any further.I also need a sheared bolt removed and 2 helicoils fitted,not expensive,but too close to christmas for saving.Hope you all got what you wanted for christmas. Have fun, Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on December 29, 2006, 04:25:32 PM
I have just replaced the photos that were removed by admin, as they were too large. I hope you like them. Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on January 13, 2007, 05:07:31 PM
Here are some of the other projects I have been working on during and after the Viper was being built.The small Miami crash boat was reduced from a free plan and uses the internals from a micro jet ski . Almost as soon as I got home,I had dropped the jetski and broke off one propshaft ,I then grafted on motor units from a Superdrug 5 submarine,but the jetski sat too low in the water and wasn't very well sealed,so this was the donor for my one foot crash boat. There is plenty of power for use in the bath/test tank,dont know the range of the radio but should be okay if you can still see it! The tanker is Shell Welder plastic kit with another toy boat as donor.Motors props and Radio gear for a fiver.I have bigger models that get used a lot less often than the smaller ones do,due to transport.I have two other miami crash boats in the production line at the original plan size of two feet.One will be 400 size motor and the other is getting a 540 sized TMS tornado that survived both buggy racing and attempts to use it for electric flight. They have a lot of work still to be done ,but I will get around to it sometime!
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on January 13, 2007, 05:30:43 PM
Donor Jetski and another photo of Shell Welder
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on April 03, 2007, 11:42:20 PM
I don't know why I posted pictures of my Crash boat and the tanker,but I liked them.I am now going to bring the mini speedboat up to date with my latest photos.I am working out what to use for a fuel tank and hopefully I will get the spares I need for the outboard and it shouldn't be too long before I can see if it runs! Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on April 05, 2007, 08:57:46 PM
I forgot to mention that the outboard cover is covered with Solarfilm ! It was quite difficult to get a smooth finish,but I managed. Lot less mess than spraying,and no runs! Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on April 12, 2007, 10:35:19 PM
A bit more progress on the boat recently. I made up fittings for a 10 litre plastic container which will be my fuel tank,sorted out fuel tube and throttle cable runs so that they can't catch on the steering mechanism. I also fitted the tank firmly in place,but still removable. It will be a bit of a chore to fill it as I have to remove 19 hatch screws to get into the tank bay. I have been told that 10 litres should last at least two hours,my seat padding is not that thick so I may be a bit tender by that time anyway. I helicoiled two stripped threads and my engineering friend got a sheared bolt out for me. Only my spare parts to get,then I can start building the motor to see if it runs, bearing in mind that it is 24 years old now and was probably used as an anchor for some of that. I will try and put some photos on the next time,but it doesn't really look any different,the most noticeable difference will come when the motor is built and the gearbox and prop are fitted,I can't wait, Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Martin [Admin] on April 12, 2007, 11:12:30 PM

Looking good Andy! What size is the outboard and what's up wif it??
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on April 14, 2007, 08:50:02 PM
It's an Evinrude 9.9 HP and it needs 3 seals,a bolt, a circlip and some gearbox oil. I don't know if it runs yet,it might need more bits,but I hope not. I managed to fit my gearbox onto the rest of the outboard to see how it looked,but there is not really much more I can do till I get the seals etc. It will give me time to try and remember how it all goes back together, I complicated things a bit by putting the bolts from both motors together.I can choose the best ones,but I won't know if I have left a bolt out! Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 03, 2007, 11:44:55 PM
My parts came for the outboard, I built it up,and it started!!!! It took a bit longer than that,but my 24 year old outboard runs and pretty well, enough to empty a wheelie bin at half throttle! I made up a throttle control to operate it from the cockpit,and still have to make a tickover adjustment fitting and a transport dolly and I will be ready to go,I can't wait! I have made a fitting for my bow,there is probably a nautical term for it,but I don't know what it is. I made it and the throttle lever from laminations of 1/8th brass sheet.I will post a photo or two when I have shrunk them. Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Martin [Admin] on May 04, 2007, 12:08:09 AM

  Bye Andy, it was nice knowing you.
        You'll be missed....  ;D
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 10, 2007, 11:30:29 PM
Hi everyone,It has been a busy week for me,building a trolley to transport my boat.The last two times I had it out,it was on the building stand,which collapsed when it was all strapped down onto my friends bike trailer.We also had to lift the boat into the water which resulted in a couple of 'dings' in my spray rails. This time,it will be wheeled onto the trailer and the trolley strapped to the trailer.The boat now has fittings to allow it to be strapped to the trolley and wheeled into the water. The trolley has been a project itself, converting a kids chute frame and a swing into my boat transporter. I also ended up using a piece of my wife's steel washing pole which was just the bit I needed! I did check first, and I replaced the section with a bit of Gazebo frame which was the right size but thinner wall, should be ok, but I might be in trouble if it folds with a full load of washing on it! I have re-registered my boat for Loch Lomond (Free,if you dont need new number set!),and hope to get out for a shot with more horsepower than I had with the seagull engine.This is pencilled in for Saturday depending on the weather! I haven't had time to make a soft top for it yet,and I dont want my nice leather seat getting wet! Can't wait, it was a bit disappointing with the seagull, the Evinrude promises to be a bit more like it! I will need to post photos of my trolley, as soon as I get time! If anyone wants to come and watch ,you are welcome and I will take you for a run as well if you are about 10 stone, Have fun, Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: omra85 on May 11, 2007, 08:51:22 PM
Exciting times for you Andy!  Well done.
Now - Let's see, - you have kids with neither a swing or a slide, a wife with a wobbly washing line and a gazebo that's falling over ::)
I don't think you'll live long enough to test this new trailer ;D ;D
Danny
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 11, 2007, 11:35:16 PM
My daughter got a slide/swing/monkey bar setup for her birthday last year,but she thought she was going to keep the old stuff as well , that will be right, it's booked! Any way, it's a trolley now. Hope the weather improves a bit for my outing tomorrow, might need my waterproofs and some cling film over the leather upholstery,don't want mildew setting in. Anyone care to  have a go at estimating what sort of speed to expect from my boat, not that I expect it to go that fast, I am counting on the fact that you are sitting at water level to give extra excitement. And the fact that the waves will be big compared to the boat.  If I get out tomorrow, I will try and get the photos on as soon as possible,  Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 12, 2007, 10:28:05 PM
 Well, I eventually got to go out in my boat,it didn't happen till 6pm and my wife was going out at 8pm . A bit rushed and i didn't get back till 9pm but I got out.And I didn't sink! The extra weight of the bigger outboard made it sit down a bit at the back but not enough to worry about.My engine performed well. The first try I had in the boat resulted in the bow rising up as I gave it throttle and it wasn't coming down! I could see my spectators doubled up on the shore as I drove about at nearly 45 degrees, I actually got a bit worried that it would flip instead of planing. I went back into the shore and took on 2 x 100 metre drums of cable and stuck them right in front of my feet. I set out again and it was still coming up then the nose started to drop and it was planing! Pretty fast too! The guy that owns the local boatyard thought it was doing 20-25 knots but it is very hard to tell, I don't think it was going as fast as that but it feels quick and is totally stable in flat out turns. The water was really calm and I was the only boat there, I saw 2 fishing boats in the distance and that was it.I gave my engineer pal a shot,my brother got a shot and so did my stepdad. They all came back with big grins. It is fun and pretty fast for 10 hp. Anyone got a 15 Hp Evinrude? Runner or not,I would be very interested. I never got to take any photos myself,but other people were taking photos and video,I did manage to get some on-board footage which looks even faster. Just one small piece of damage to the boat during transport,the steel loop I put on the front of the trolley to tie the boat to,due to bumpy roads,had worn a patch out of me lovely hull, above the waterline,and about 4 feet above it just before it starts planing! I have had a good session but would like a longer shot. Have Fun, Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: tigertiger on May 13, 2007, 01:38:21 AM
Congrats
and you deserve to be happy and proud

look forward to some pics
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 13, 2007, 02:19:56 AM
Here you are then, I still have to get more photos and video from some of the people who attended the launch. The on water pics are not as good as I hoped, a bit far away. The water was shallow till quite far out and no-one fancied paddling out for a closer photo. Once my Mum has read the insruction manual for her super camera, I might get a picture of it planing. There was mention of going out tomorrow, that's what happens if you give people a shot. My engineer friend was talking about doing a boat (150% stretched Viper,about 11 ft long maybe a bit wider) for himself now using an XS 250 Yamaha bike engine with a prop shaft and rudder etc. We found out that weight needs to go forward anyway, this would allow seats to be moved back a bit and give more open cockpit. But that's another project.  Gears on a boat? does that work?  I promise more pictures soon, next time out it might be sunny! I want someone to wade out waist deep till I do a flypast for the camera but dont think anyone is going to volunteer for that. Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: tigertiger on May 13, 2007, 03:09:35 AM
I love the wheelie  ;D  ;D  ;D

She looks good.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Daniel on May 13, 2007, 08:03:59 PM
Hi Andy M,
a good looking boat there  ;D
Hope all goes well with gettin' those pics and the boat runs as good as it looks.

thanks
Daniel
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: omra85 on May 13, 2007, 09:42:49 PM
Well done Andy - you nutter ;D
The prop is a LONG way under the hull so will try to act like a lever on the back - hence the wheely!
Could you raise the engine (maybe by clamping a riser on the transom) to get the prop higher?  I know the engine was cheap and rebuilt by yourself (again, having seen how it started, well done) but you really need the prop JUST below the hull.
Either that or a good lifejacket and a breeze block in the nose ;D ;D
Danny
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 15, 2007, 12:21:33 PM
Here is a photo of it on the plane with the two drums of cable up front, I will be trying to put some lead up front permanently. I just wish I had known about that when the frame was still unskinned. Don,t know when I will get out next, can't wait now that I know it's quick ! Have fun Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Daniel on May 15, 2007, 05:31:21 PM
Hi Andy M,
How fast do you think you got it then?
Looking at the photo it must be seriously quick, Just wish I could one!!!!!  8)


Thanks
Daniel
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 19, 2007, 01:07:50 PM
Hi Daniel,  the guy that owns the boatyard in Balmaha thought it was doing 20-25 knots. I have been at 30 knots in a Microplus( as far as I can remember) with 80 hp  motor and it didn't feel as fast because we were standing up. With the Viper,you are sitting at waterlevel. I was hoping to get out today,but it's a bit rough, probably be like The Perfect Storm in my tiny boat. I have to content myself with watching the video (over and over). I had a bit of an 'Incident' when I was casting lead to fit up the front of my boat, I had cast the bit I needed and was pouring the extra lead into an ingot mould when an explosion of molten lead spurted up from the mould and splashed on my arm! Pretty sore! So I decided to ladle the rest into the mould instead of pouring it,thinking that would be a bit safer! How wrong can you be, as soon as the ladle touched the molten lead, it really exploded this time ,sending a shower of molten lead in an 8 ft radius circle, with quite a bit of it landing on my neck and running down my shoulder! Now that REALLY hurts! It wrote off a pair of trainers,a pair of trousers and a t-shirt. I managed to finish fitting my ballast the next day so it's not that bad,but I had 3 splashes on my glasses,that was the most worrying thing. I will have to change my 'motto' from Have fun to Have fun and be careful with lead, Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 19, 2007, 01:17:07 PM
I am thinking about making a fibreglass moulding of it, I ordered a catalogue to see how much it would cost to start producing them,but I have no experience with fibreglass. I don't know the best way to make the mould,or if it would come out, I would probably have to remove the side rails. Is there anyone that would want to buy one,I am sure a fibreglass one would be a lot lighter/faster. 
Anybody out there live near Balfron and knows about fibreglass? Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 19, 2007, 02:14:25 PM
Well, here is what molten lead does to skin. Don't  try this at home! (always wanted to say that) It's started to go crispy! Have fun, Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 19, 2007, 02:53:21 PM
Here is my onboard video (if it works!)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YKATWyFMYE
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: omra85 on May 19, 2007, 04:05:02 PM
No Andy - no video there (at the moment)  Here's the link
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3OfHl2dDo8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3OfHl2dDo8)

Danny
Thats a horrible photo - the injury looks bad as well  ;D ;D

Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: John W E on May 19, 2007, 06:22:19 PM
Hi Andy, I know its a bit late now, but did you consider using a barrel filled with water placed in the bow?

The alternative, if not a barrel filled with water, did you think about putting trim tabs on the bottom of the boat, that is another option.

Another option I can think of is, if you can slightly angle your outboard motor, so that the prop actually faces down over so the thrust of the prop is actually pushing the stern of the boat up over and the bow down over.

No doubt you have worked it out for yourself, but, you have miscalculated your centre of gravity for forward motion thrust  ;D  - a very quick and simply description - imagine a see saw - the bench that you actually sit on represents the boat, the centre piece which holds the bench up is the centre of forces acting up over from the water.  As the boat moves forwards on a normal displacement hull, this centre moves slightly aft, different (now we are considering Andy's boat - a high speed boat) as the boat increases speed it comes to a state which is known as the hump, where the boat is now at a speed where it is attempting to climb over the top of the bow wave.  This bow wave is now your pivotal point.   If you have too much weight in the back end of your boat, you have what has happened to Andy's boat - the bow just lifts straight up in the air.

To compensate this, there are several ways, one which Andy has done - that is to add weight to the bow - then obviously the other way is a more complicated way which entails re-designing the hull. 

I have a sneeky feeling Andy is going to go for a 3-point hydro next.

WELL DONE ANDY ON YOUR BOAT  ;D  Make the next one slightly longer.   Make sure you can sit further forward towards the bow.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 19, 2007, 09:03:47 PM
I must say that the boat is pretty heavily built,look at the bare frame further back in this, 3 layers 3/4 ply for keel, same for engine mount(as it was originally for inboard or outboard) and 2 inch thick transom. most of the bulkheads have partial doublers resulting in a 15 stone boat! Plus my 2 1/2 stone of lead now! A 5 stone engine hanging over the back as well. When I tried to get it on the plane with two people aboard,but without cable as ballast, it seemed as if it was the same as with one person, we never had time to try 2 people and ballast, I will the next time. Anyone got an estimate of how heavy a fibreglass hull would be compared to my wooden version, anyone got a 15hp they would swap for some of my vast model collection? Volvo penta outdrive? I even thought about grafting a Suzuki 250 Gamma engine onto it,but didn't think my gearcase would take the power,Captain(in a real Scots accent!)I think it's actually fast enough ,but the biker in me takes over and I want more speed,who mentioned hydro? One of my first models was a Robbe Proppy,has anybody got a picture of one, I remember it being pretty fast with a standard buggy motor,in fact, everything out of my Tamiya Holiday buggy. I would like a photo if anyone has one. I priced a speedo for my boat and it's 3/4 what it cost to build the motor,and besides,I was told it looked about 20-25 knots(by someone who works with boats) thats good enough for me, it feels fast, I don't want to find out it's only doing 13 knots or something. Doesn't matter,feels like you're going for the water speed record! It was pretty calm when I was out,I am sure the excitement level will rise with the size of the waves.It's a deep v hull so should be able to handle it(he says hopefully). The side of the boat at the Viper logo is 12 inches high! I have seen five foot waves on Loch Lomond,thats 2/3rds the length of my boat. I know I am going to have fun in it,anybody fancy making one ? It's just a big model and if you take the motor off,it can sit on it's transom in the corner with the telly in the cockpit. I have had a lot of fun designing and building it,it took a while,but I ironed out the problems and ended up with somehting that goes as fast as I had hoped,Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: John W E on May 19, 2007, 09:35:54 PM
Andy, in a real Geordie accent  ;D go for the 3 point hydro next time - about 15 foot long and stick a 25 horse Yamaha on the back end - with you sitting well foreward -  ;D

On the serious side though, if you are ever planning to do something like this again, which no doubt you are, if you can get hold of a book entitled 'High Speed Small Craft' by Peter Du Cane 3rd updated edition.  Its heavy reading, but its got a lot of formula for predicting required horse power per weight of boat to get a set speed.

To give you an idea - 39 foot boat weighing 7 ton - took 2 x Ford V6 engines - driving 13" pitch by 14/15" props.  This gives a speed of approximately 22-23 knots.   That was on a similar hull as what the perkasa is.

Its worth looking into anyway and it gives you a ball park figure to aim for, for sizing your motor.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: martno1fan on May 20, 2007, 12:14:52 AM
hi andy have a look at some of these all the plans are free and there are some that might be of interest,should keep you busy for a few years at least lol  ;D
http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=HydroPlanes/minimost (http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=HydroPlanes/minimost)
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on May 20, 2007, 01:00:08 AM
I dont really fancy sitting on a modified ironing board,Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: martno1fan on May 20, 2007, 07:32:19 PM
I dont really fancy sitting on a modified ironing board,Andy M
i must have missed the ironing board these boats are tried and tested ,some even raced and still do in the states  ??? ::) :-\
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 15, 2007, 02:00:10 PM
Here is the new link to the onboard video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YKATWyFMYE
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 15, 2007, 02:06:24 PM
Anybody got a speed estimate? Have you ever wished you hadn't got yourself in a video?
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: martno1fan on June 15, 2007, 05:36:53 PM
seems like shes going pretty well mate id say speeds about 25 mph !!be nice to see a video of the actual boat running to see how shes riding now?.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 16, 2007, 12:07:24 PM
 Your wish etc.Here is video of it planing.Sorry about the quality, I had to use my phone to record it off the telly, I will try to put the original digital footage on,but my Mum has it and it needs editing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAoei2F87Gs
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: martno1fan on June 16, 2007, 06:39:59 PM
nice video mate she looks great certainly seems to be planing  ;).
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 26, 2007, 11:47:31 PM
Hi everyone,I managed to get out again on Sunday,it was very wet but I decided to risk getting my leather upholstery soaked and have another shot. Since I was there last,the speed restrictions have changed on Loch Lomond,with many areas being 11kph. The place I launch from has this limit extending 1/2 mile offshore where before,it was 150mts. My friend had a shot and was a small yellow dot before he opened it up a bit,I couldn't even see if he was planing or not! So much for getting some close up video or photos. I took a few of it before we loaded up. The lead does the trick,but I found that by sliding forward again once you are planing,it goes a bit faster.This would suggest that it could do with a bit more. It was pretty choppy out at the half mile markers,I was looking for some larger waves to see how it would cope,then a jetski went past about 100yds away and I headed for a 'clump' of waves that seemed to be gathered in one place,it looked a bit odd but I drove? through it and I thought I got airborne but dont know for sure,it felt like it was landing,it was quite a thump. I got pretty soaked from rain and the half bucketfuls of water from the bow area that seemed to happen often. It felt as if I was crossing the Atlantic even though the waves were only about a foot high. Hope it is a bit sunnier and drier for my next outing. Have fun , Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 18, 2007, 12:36:58 AM
I managed to get out again on Sunday,it wasn't even raining! I will be putting some videos on youtube sometime soon, I need to stop getting myself in the videos, Andy.  http://www.youtube.com/Macyam
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 31, 2007, 01:04:23 PM
I tried loading my video onto youtube but it kept failing, so here are some stills from the video, bit poor quality,but better than nothing. Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: slewis on July 31, 2007, 09:38:03 PM
Now THAT looks like great fun !!  When can we form an orderly queue to have a go ?  :D :D

Shane
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on August 01, 2007, 11:34:42 AM
If you come and help me transport it, I will give you a shot. Andy.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy D on September 12, 2007, 08:20:25 AM
Hi Andy,
I like your "sit-in" boats - nice designs! I've been putting together rough ideas for a twin keel "sit-in" boat to build in my garage this winter (about 2.5m long by 0.85m beam, and using commercially available mast and sails from a boat such as the Optimist, or the RS Tera, or the Topper Taz), as you are way ahead of me with the boats you have built (Amy), would it be possible either to see your designs or to buy them off you?

The idea of the twin keel design is manyfold: to enable it to sit on the ground without a trailer, to give it lateral resistance when close-haul sailing and to improve stability (especially if I attach lumps of lead to the keels), and to avoid the need for either a single, long, fixed keel, or a lifting centre-board.

Please advise if you need my email address.

cheers, Andy D
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on September 13, 2007, 11:52:01 AM
Hi Andy, I live near Glasgow if you fancy visiting for a look at the boat and/or patterns. I have about 400 jpegs of the build if you are too far away for that. I must admit that the centre keel is a bit more work to fit,but as I scaled the boat up from a model,I wanted to keep it the same. The only reason that I made it removable was so that the hull fitted through my attic hatch as this is where it was built. The yacht is for sale if you want to make me an offer! Andy.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 28, 2008, 01:42:07 PM
Hi everybody, its been a while since i was last on the pc, i have been making my latest boat,which again is a tiddler at 8 feet long. It is based on a Minimax hydro,i have swapped the Evinrude 9.9 from the Viper,but had to convert it to shortshaft to use it on my new one. I have had it for its maiden voyage but the waves were 2 feet high and it coped very well but i never got to try it flat out as the front was slicing the tops off of waves and throwing it straight in my face.Cant wait for a calm day to try it. i will need to resize a photo or two and put them on. Andy M
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on June 28, 2008, 03:41:22 PM
Here are the photos of my new toy.  Hope you like it. 10 hp can be plenty! Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: martno1fan on June 30, 2008, 10:48:00 AM
She looks good Andy i just maidened a zippkits hydro witha  full mod zen in it,bit smaller than yours but she goes really well.She handles chop pretty well but i tried her in some rough stuff and although she ran ok if i got above half speed i was lucky and she would also gets wamped a bit too.Heres a vid of her second run and a pic hope you dont mind me posting it?.
Mart
http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/martno1fan/?action=view&current=rocketthydro2_0001.flv (http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm248/martno1fan/?action=view&current=rocketthydro2_0001.flv)
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 01, 2008, 01:15:20 PM
Nice! I think youve got a bit more power to weight than mine. Mine might go that fast if I jump out! And you stay dry with yours. I hope to have more power soon,i bought an Evinrude 15 a couple of weeks ago for my Viper as i thought it could do with a bit more. I am sure i will try it on my new boat as well.The 15 needs a lot of work and there are a few bits missing but it will be a 50% increase in power,so it will be worth it (if i can get it running!) About 2 months ago,i put an advert in the local newsagents looking for outboards any condition or size,must be cheap. 2 weeks after the advert was taken down,i got a call from a guy asking if i was interested in a Mercury 40. I thought it would be too expensive,but he had been out with it twice in a row conking out both times and got fed up and bought a new fourstroke 15 instead(new 40 was going to be about 7000 he told me) he was going to take the prop and starter off to sell and 'deep six' the rest from his boat. I have rescued it from its fate! It is similar condition to the other motors I have had,so it needs a good bit of work too. Its next after the 15! It is a good bit bigger than my other motors ,my Evinrude 9.9 weighs 35 kg and the Mercury 40 weighs 55 kg. I dont have a boat that would take that weight,and even if it did fit on the Viper without sinking it, it would probably end up a bit dangerous! Or a lot dangerous. I like the smaller engines for ease of transport and fuel economy, 9.9 is 1 gallon per hour flat out, 40 would be 4 gallons an hour. Anybody got any 'dead' Evinrude/Johnson 9.9 or 15 outboards(or Mercury 40) they want to sell/swap for something from my (vast)collection of boats or planes. I noticed my advert was removed from the forum a while ago,i should do another one with less models in it(i had 20+ models for sale). Still waiting to get out in the Minimax,but its been too windy here and Loch Lomond has probably got 3 ft waves, Minimax front edge sits 2 inches above water when planing,slicing wavetops straight into your face in 20 gallon portions,and its still good fun! Used to hate getting soaked on motorbikes,but this is ok. Like the hydro,i might be tempted to do one of them for the Mercury 40,scaled down a bit cos the original of yours probably had a plane engine of some sort in it, 40 horses just wont cut it! Keep on building, just leave some room to move about! By the way,my boat is part recycled using foot from a chest of drawers,part of a cd rack,a bit off a loft ladder, some pushbike cables,bit of inner tube and a bit of a pair of crutches. There are a few other things but I have written enough,its back to scraping seacrust for me,have fun, Andy M.
Title: Re: Mini speedboat project
Post by: Andy M on July 05, 2008, 06:50:42 PM
Here is some video of my friend coming a bit too close to shore in my Minimax(note panic in voice) Andy M.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N00Of55g_7o