Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: RaaArtyGunner on July 18, 2011, 06:21:01 am

Title: Can it print a model boat
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on July 18, 2011, 06:21:01 am
Don't know how real/true this is but it will revolutionise model boating O0 O0 O0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZboxMsSz5Aw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Peter Fitness on July 18, 2011, 06:30:15 am
Amazing technology, but they don't say how much it costs.

Peter.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 18, 2011, 06:56:14 am
Yes, but it would probably sink.
Think of texture like that of a sand candle. Dig a hole in the sand, pour in some wax let it cure voila, sand candle.
This thing injects cement into the "sand bed" and creates the parts. The textures are like 250 to 300 grit sandpaper.

Zcorp printers are like that. There are other printers that print plastics, but the resolutions of most well still stair step curves.
Some of the wax printers for jewelers are pretty good, but consider, that even jewelers do a lot of polishing.

 ok2
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: joppyuk on July 18, 2011, 07:47:03 am
I've seen model railway locomotive bodies produced by a similar method. When I get home tonight I'll try find the details.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: brianB6 on July 18, 2011, 07:50:16 am
There was a recent article about printing chocolate into any shape.  %)  
Yum Yum, any shape is good enough for me!   :P
I don't suppose it would stand up to water though.  <:(
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: john s 2 on July 18, 2011, 08:46:15 am
These technologys are the ones to watch. There in their early days.With more developement and price
reduction parts production will change.The wrench made had more strength than i expected. John.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Fifie on July 18, 2011, 09:36:03 am
I use all the currently available 3D Printing methods
They each have their own merits
Its very much a case of selecting the right process and material for the job in hand
The edge definition on some is poor
The holes on some ain't very good
Some materials are brittle
Yes you could print a model boat, but it would probably have to be in sections because these machines tend to have a small production area
Machine costs vary from 12K to 200,000K
Most bureaus have a minimum cost of 250
Try Shapeways they don't
it's a good site for letting you know what can be done
Fifie
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: malcolmfrary on July 18, 2011, 09:49:17 am
While the printer can no doubt do individual parts if they are scanned separately, I have strong doubts about the ability to produce a complete working item with internal threads.  I feel that the video has strong elements of Blue Peter - "Here's one I did earlier."
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Fifie on July 18, 2011, 09:59:44 am
Malcomfrary

i have watched the video
This is the Z Corp version of 3D printing
It uses a powder which is basically superglued together
Internal threads are not a problem
I used this method for trawler powerblocks but they too brittle for much handling
look at the shapeway site for what can be done

Fifie
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: MikeA on July 18, 2011, 10:10:05 am
if it hadnt been questioned weather this was real or not i would have bought it. However it goes to show the development of manufacturing technology. In the long run give it ten years off the shelf products created by these things will be available to the mass market and as result like most advances like these will deem millions of people out of work. Rich people will get richer and poor people will get poorer.   {:-{
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: DickyD on July 18, 2011, 10:28:59 am
if it hadnt been questioned weather this was real or not i would have bought it. However it goes to show the development of manufacturing technology. In the long run give it ten years off the shelf products created by these things will be available to the mass market and as result like most advances like these will deem millions of people out of work. Rich people will get richer and poor people will get poorer.   {:-{
Are you organising a march on Westminster, Mike ?  (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/indexphp.gif)
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: MikeA on July 18, 2011, 10:33:13 am
looks like ill have too  >>:-(
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Watchleader on July 18, 2011, 05:33:20 pm
Hi Guys

Can you help me out here. I'm not too sure on the correct spelling.  {:-{  {:-{
Is it - Gullable  or Gullible? Or something else?  {-) {-)

John
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: malcolmfrary on July 18, 2011, 05:36:09 pm
Fifie,
I appreciate that, because of the way that the image is imprinted into the medium, that internal details can be produced.  My belief wavers at the scanning stage.  We dont really have hand held imaging gear that can look at the internals of a lump of steel.
Had the image been taken of a disassembled item, no great problem.  With the right CAD jiggery-pokery, it could well be assembled, and subsequently recreated, assembled.  I would still go for the Blue Peter option, with added poor continuity.  A pity, because the important part of the technology is real enough, and might well be the future, but a dumbed down presentation does not help.  It fuels the argument of non-believers, and raises expectation of the majority who still think Star Trek and Harry Potter are both real, and does both at the same time.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: steamboatmodel on July 18, 2011, 05:47:12 pm
Check out this site
http://www.makerbot.com/
One of the members of the Toronto Society of model engineers has one and demonstrated it at one of the meetings. I was very impressed with it.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: joppyuk on July 18, 2011, 06:06:54 pm
Further to my message this morning, I've dug out the advert in the 7mm Narrow gauge Assoc. magazine. Website is www.chrisjward.co.uk, they produce a couple of loco bodies (at the moment) at 68 for this scale. According to the text on the site they can produce items from your own CAD file, so it might be worth getting in touch for details of practicality and quotes.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: dodgy geezer on July 18, 2011, 06:42:41 pm
Here is the open source Rep Rap Wiki page: http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page

Rep Rap is an attempt to make self-replicating machines available for as little as possible - ideally free. You need a computer, and you may have to buy motors and the control boards, but all the parts are made by other rep-rap machines and are either cheaply or freely available from other people with rep-raps.

The technology is in an early stage, but can probably make things like fittings for a boat, or small hulls....
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 18, 2011, 07:10:37 pm
Yes it is early days but hopefully it will get better and better... and cheaper!
 Same story with 40MHz & 2.4Ghz - NiCad, then Nickel-Metal Hydride, then LiPo.


My first mobile phone....
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: bobk on July 18, 2011, 07:18:14 pm
One of the great things with professional CAD is that it is possible to produce a very accurate representation of your design, but with quite a few practical limitations.  At the firm I was with we had Pro Engineer at about 20k a seat, and a 3D printer costing almost 100k.  The software was brilliant, I wish I had it here now !   They got the 3D printer because some managers could not visualise the full size design revolving on screen in front of them without having a small solid replica to 'fondle'.  

Limitations were size, length of time to build up the individual laminations, and the end result tending to be too fragile around detail, plus distinct 'pixel style' steps on any vertical curves.
Great for sub superstructures where you need a constant wall thickness, and an alternative to awkward shaped cast parts providing no too fine bits that will break off with handling.  Could be ideal to make masters for soft metal casting I guess ?

Bob
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 18, 2011, 07:54:49 pm
Yes it is early days but hopefully it will get better and better... and cheaper!
 Same story with 40MHz & 2.4Ghz - NiCad, then Nickel-Metal Hydride, then LiPo.

Yee gads, I think of the technology as already 10 years old... It was that long ago when I first saw samples of a Zcorp machine.
The previous Stereo lithography machines, and the subsquent depsoition machines have all come a long way in that time.
But still no where near affordable.  %)

Six years ago, I had to make a decision between buying a laser cutter or a new car, I went with the car after partnership discussions...
The price tags are not much different today.  Especially with these 3d printers. ok2
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Bee on July 19, 2011, 09:31:13 pm
I think a version printing wax for lost wax casting with an emphasis in fine resolution at the expence of strength would be helpful, probably been done too.
I recall we were using the laser/resin system for complex chassis models about 1 cu ft size in the mid eighties.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Subculture on July 19, 2011, 11:43:06 pm
You can get Google Sketch-up for nothing, and a free plugin which will convert your 3D files into a compatible file for 3D printing. http://www.cadspan.com/tools

Rerap looks promising, and it's getting better all the the time, but it doesn't match the results of the professional machines, yet.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 20, 2011, 04:46:13 am
Well if you are happy with the resolution of the RepRap, or the cupcake printer, then here is a commercial version.

http://pp3dp.com/

But do note the resolution on that little toy car... a lot of clean up work to do there.
By the time I figure out how to draw the part, encode the part, print the part, and clean up the part, ...
I could have probably built half a dozen parts from scratch... Knowing that some of these machines take hours to print, I
could probably build a part in the same amount of time it takes for it to print one.

Also note, this particular machine only has one print head, so there is no support material to  alow it to print over hanging pieces.
The model has to be cut and printed in sections to allow a continuous layer build up in any direction.

 ok2
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Bee on August 01, 2011, 06:06:38 pm
Click-online on BBC News 24 has just featured 3 versions of 3D printer. They scanned the presenter's face and then produced a 1 inch high head. This would be fantastic for crew models which are often a bit difficult to find in the right scale and looking reasonable. You could arrange to crew your yacht with your family = much cheaper than actually giving them a sailing holiday.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on August 01, 2011, 07:30:34 pm
I think a version printing wax for lost wax casting with an emphasis in fine resolution at the expence of strength would be helpful, probably been done too.
I recall we were using the laser/resin system for complex chassis models about 1 cu ft size in the mid eighties.


FX models has a printer/mill, that will create a resolution down to 0.001
Most machines are printing 0.25mm or 0.009.

For small parts and fittings, or figures it would be great, but a whole boat would be too costly.

http://www.fxmodels.com/SST612.shtml (http://www.fxmodels.com/SST612.shtml)

Quote from: FXmodels-Marc

Our machine can grow parts as large as 6"x 6" x 12" which is the max size of our grow area, and of course to any size less than that down to fractions of inches or mm. We have grow resolutions from 10 thousands down to one HALF thousandth. In other words, the part would feel as smooth as glass at the finest resolution. The finished parts can be:

1: moldable in silicone to make resin copies
2: investment cast to make metal pieces...

Our systems use two heads, the first is a deposition head that puts down the plastic material and the second is the head that deposits the wax encasement used to make sure delicate details are not lost to the process as the model grows.
After the plastic and wax layers are deposited, a milling cutter in the machine comes across and levels out the layer to make it perfectly smooth. Then a new layer is started. In this way the system can achieve very fine resolutions. Some of our parts were used to make the Turbine Blade Locks for the new Joint Strike Fighter engine even though we were using it for model parts!
In any case let me know if you need quotes on parts. We are happy to help. We find that resolutions of .001, .0015 are very clean, with .002, or .0025 being typically perfectly fine. You can see the lines at the two thousandths resolution but not feel them. Beyond that resolution you can begin to feel the layers increasingly as the layer resolution is reduced.

For timings, consider that a layer of 2 thousandths resolution takes half as long to grow as a layer of 1 thousandth. Stands to reason... double the resolution and you double the grow time. This also corresponds to a price that is higher although not 'doubled' .. We work out the costs pretty well and give incentives for jobs that need be run at higher res.
Thanks for the time, and let me know if you have questions...

Thanks,
Marc Dantonio

President
FX Models
Web: www.fxmodels.com (http://www.fxmodels.com)
Email: info@fxmodels.com

Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: joppyuk on August 01, 2011, 07:57:09 pm
Bee - I saw the 'click' exerpt while having breakfast. They seemed to go into considerable detail, showing various examples produced by the different print methods. I tried to put a heads-up on the topic, but couldn't track it down (looking for wrong title) and had to get of to work. Glad to see someone else got there. Perhaps the sequence can be watched on the BBC i-player.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Subculture on August 02, 2011, 07:20:13 am
BTW a version that prints wax is available, and you can get this service at shapeways. They print a master in wax then use that to make an investment casting in sterling silver.
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Jerry C on August 02, 2011, 12:42:51 pm
I also had to decide between a new car or a laser cutter ...... boy do I love my laser cutter , luckily the brochures show it being used for scrapbooking and cutting patchwork squares so it was easy to get the wife on-side
Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: broger on August 02, 2011, 02:11:27 pm
Hi
I'm 63 and retired at 50 after teaching engineering to adults for a well known confectionery company.
I now have a part time job as a D&T technician in a Technology college (secondary school)
We have 2 lazer cutters and 2 3D printers or Rapid prototypes as they are called.
The children have been using these for the last 5 years to make some fantastic GCSE and A level projects.
I was the first one to build the commercial version of the rep-rap sold by the A1 company and called Rap-Man
This was the one designed by Bath Uni.
It was 850 3 years ago it's now only 550.
http://www.a1-tech.co.uk/
You will need to be able to use a drawing package, to produce STL files.
We use Solidworks
http://www.techsoft.co.uk/products/software/SolidWorks.asp

Just like your PC, the kids can show you how.
As for your first post of building a boat, It can produce perfect parts that will lock together to form a hull or even the complete boat cabins and all.
It not the machine thats good it's your ability to draw it in the first place.

Click was good but the consept of a machine that can make itself, not yet.


 




Title: Re: Can it print a model boat
Post by: Abuelo3 on August 02, 2011, 11:18:01 pm
HEY HEY I do not want to print a model, modelships is way to spend enjoyable time, with the premium of get something make with the hands, maybe something ugly, but a piece of art to me, enjoy the hobby in the old way, best wishes