Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Colin Bishop on August 08, 2011, 10:47:30 pm

Title: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 08, 2011, 10:47:30 pm
Am I the only one who finds tonight's reports absolutely appalling.

A significant proportion of the local population seems to be engaged in gratituous arson, violence and looting.

What is going through their tiny minds?

Colin

Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: philk on August 08, 2011, 11:00:33 pm
from what i read in the paper today it all makes perfect sense. someone who they believe was carrying a gun in his sock was killed by the police so lets go and burn down the post office where i get my gyro and nick some jewellery.
nothing confusing there apparently
  !!!!!!!!
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 08, 2011, 11:08:07 pm
Maybe this will prompt a rethink over police cuts.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 08, 2011, 11:12:24 pm
Absolutely crazy..

What is going through their minds. It'll be everyone elses fault except their's and it will be the hard working tax payer who will have to pick up the tab to replace everything they distroyed.

What do(can) you do with them??

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 08, 2011, 11:17:40 pm
Basically they simply don't care, it's just a fun night out with the prospect of some treasure at little risk. They were brought up with no moral values unfortunately, probably in broken homes. Chickens coming home to roost etc...

The only way to stop it is with force.

Colin
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: DavieTait on August 08, 2011, 11:17:54 pm
one of them spoken to on sky tonight said "i'm getting my taxes back" as she looted a branch of Currys.... yeah like Currys has anything to do with taxes...

just an excuse for violence and theft , send in the army , read the riot act and round these criminals up
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 08, 2011, 11:19:54 pm
one of them spoken to on sky tonight said "i'm getting my taxes back" as she looted a branch of Currys.... yeah like Currys has anything to do with taxes...

just an excuse for violence and theft , send in the army , read the riot act and round these criminals up

Wot taxes. Probably is on the dole adn doesn't pay taxes. Maybe she meant she needed a 'taxi' to help move her loot  <*<

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: threadstopper on August 08, 2011, 11:32:54 pm
Shoot the 'blinking!' lot of them :police: :police: :police:
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: brianB6 on August 08, 2011, 11:58:48 pm
It's not as if they were trying to overthrow the government as in Syria.
Maybe Sharia law, cutting off their hands for theft, would make them think twice.
Why are the spectators there if not to encourage them?
I lived in Notting Hill during the first race riots and it was nothing like this.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 09, 2011, 12:13:01 am
Shoot the 'blinking!' lot of them :police: :police: :police:

European law and their rights  >>:-(

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 09, 2011, 06:21:33 am
Am I the only one who finds tonight's reports absolutely appalling.

I find it not only appalling, but almost unbelievable that citizens of a country like England could act in that way. Unfortunately, I think you're right, Colin, force is the only thing this mob will understand. Time to bring in the army, perhaps?

Peter.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: barryfoote on August 09, 2011, 07:19:44 am
I am afraid that the number of "The great unwashed", is increasing in Britain year on year and has done for the last 50 or so. They respect nothing and no one. Believe me when I say this will get much worse before it gets better. It will spread around Britain, partly due to the medias coverage of it. Force will not be used as it should be because then the individual Police Officers will be risking their own careers and liberty, doing what most of us think they should....beating the hell out of the poor little darlings.. :police: <*< :police: <*< :police: <*< :police: <*<
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pugwash on August 09, 2011, 07:35:22 am
It would not surprise me if there were more copycat riots elsewhere giving more opportunities to loot before this eventually quietens down.
Problem is they are better organised this time with mobiles and blackberries to keep contact with other likeminded idiots.
Thank heavens my days as a Bobby are long gone - I remember the last riots in North Tyneside.

Geoff
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: funtimefrankie on August 09, 2011, 07:57:42 am
Am I the only one who finds tonight's reports absolutely appalling.
No, I don't think so...................Camerooooon has had to cut short his holiday, as has the Home Sec and Borris
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Patternmaker on August 09, 2011, 08:16:07 am
Combat theses yobs with excessive force, Army, armoured vehicles, water cannons and rubber bullets, a good time to pull our troops from Afghanistan.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: regiment on August 09, 2011, 08:41:13 am
  WHYuse rubber bullets get a gpmg set up that will put the fear of god  allah in them
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: deadwood on August 09, 2011, 08:52:28 am
Good morning,

I know, as someone from abroad, I shouldn't embark on this thread on a highly charged "domestic" topic.

Unfortunately, I missed our German news yesterday because I came home from work quite late and was then chased by my wife through our garden with some nasty lumberjack work until dusk.

But I do listen to the BBC World Service always when riding in my car to the train station to catch my train to work.
This morning they have reported there that last night saw the most severe and unprecedented riots in London, especially in and around Hackney.
If I remember correctly they had an interview with some kind of inter-racial arbiter/mediator (I assume social worker)
who confirmed that those rioters couldn't be related to any ethnic minority and that they "hijacked" the original motivation (i.e. the (alleged?) shooting of a black guy by a police officer) and were mere "copycat rioters".

It's amazing to me and very interesting to find such a thread in a model boating forum, albeit in its chit chat section.
But on the other hand it seems fitting and obliged to the Mayhem part.
I'm convinced that in a German model makers' forum such a thread wouldn't enjoy any longevity and soon be banned/purged by the site's moderators.

I'm also - excuse my putting it - "amused" to read various lighthearted comments to pull in the army to deal with the mob, irrespective how justified this might be.
Maybe because of our history or grotesque common PC such suggestions would immediately disavow the person and defame them to harbour neo-fascist attitudes.


Regards
Ralph
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Philipsparker on August 09, 2011, 09:06:47 am
A significant proportion of the local population seems to be engaged in gratituous arson, violence and looting.

Is it a "significant" proportion ? I suspect the numbers are lower than you might think. They seem to be travelling in organised gangs between sites now.

I also think the media are revelling in it and egging them on. It's a quiet news time, most of the trouble is in within the zones on a travelcard and the pictures look good. Mind you, a lot of them are being endlessly repeated - I've seen the shop in Brum about a dozen times now.

Phil
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: bikerdude666 on August 09, 2011, 09:09:43 am
Send the army in.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: richtea on August 09, 2011, 12:07:44 pm
The rioters all look young, so what are their parents doing when they come home with the stolen goods ?
A simple solution would be to use water cannon with a fluorescent marker, so that they can be picked up  any time after the criminal act.
The loony left libertarians will be lining up the excuses for the few that get arrested and the law courts are so weak that they will probably all be back on the streets within a few hours.
The police should be able to use the Riot Act and use all force necessary to quell the rioters, If that means a few broken bones then so be it.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: snowwolflair on August 09, 2011, 12:49:00 pm
Quote
The rioters all look young, so what are their parents doing when they come home with the stolen goods ?

Selling them on Ebay, the parents rioted in their youth 20 years ago.  Notting Hill, Toxteth, Brixton, takre your pick of riots.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Circlip on August 09, 2011, 12:50:58 pm
Err, these are not riots. Neither was the infamous Bradford disturbance a "Riot". It's just sheer wanton destruction and theft. "Joy riding" comes under the same category. You can be sure though that all those arrested never did anything like this before, and were only doing it because he was and will be attending court in their best bibs and tucker.

  Of course, this is all down to government cuts and everybody Else's kids and theres a z in the month - - - - 8)


   Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Patternmaker on August 09, 2011, 12:51:56 pm
Good morning,

I know, as someone from abroad, I shouldn't embark on this thread on a highly charged "domestic" topic.

Unfortunately, I missed our German news yesterday because I came home from work quite late and was then chased by my wife through our garden with some nasty lumberjack work until dusk.

But I do listen to the BBC World Service always when riding in my car to the train station to catch my train to work.
This morning they have reported there that last night saw the most severe and unprecedented riots in London, especially in and around Hackney.
If I remember correctly they had an interview with some kind of inter-racial arbiter/mediator (I assume social worker)
who confirmed that those rioters couldn't be related to any ethnic minority and that they "hijacked" the original motivation (i.e. the (alleged?) shooting of a black guy by a police officer) and were mere "copycat rioters".

It's amazing to me and very interesting to find such a thread in a model boating forum, albeit in its chit chat section.
But on the other hand it seems fitting and obliged to the Mayhem part.
I'm convinced that in a German model makers' forum such a thread wouldn't enjoy any longevity and soon be banned/purged by the site's moderators.

I'm also - excuse my putting it - "amused" to read various lighthearted comments to pull in the army to deal with the mob, irrespective how justified this might be.
Maybe because of our history or grotesque common PC such suggestions would immediately disavow the person and defame them to harbour neo-fascist attitudes.


Regards
Ralph



Sending in the army was not a lightheated comment, the 450 arrested should also be made to clear up the damage they have caused.
How long will it be before an innocent person will die in a fire because its to dangerous for fireman to attend
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Circlip on August 09, 2011, 01:36:05 pm
The cheapest and most effective solution would be to issue the police with high pressure water pistols filled with "Smart Water" they can then find the perps long after the "Riots" have settled down.

  Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Arrow5 on August 09, 2011, 02:00:11 pm
Good idea but you need a device to make the water react.  The old fashioned indelible dye lasts for about 2 weeks and is visible to all. " It wisnay me mister" doesn't work..if you are green you were there, mum and dad and neighbours all will know. name and shame and gives  the coppers time to round `em up at leisure. It worked in Cyprus during the Eoka campaign.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: essex2visuvesi on August 09, 2011, 02:04:48 pm
Send the army in.

A good idea!


Sadly there isn't one anymore
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pugwash on August 09, 2011, 02:14:06 pm
send in the Argylls - at least one of their Jocks has been practising Sharia law on a small scale (fingers rather than hands )(allegedly)

Geoff
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: snowwolflair on August 09, 2011, 02:38:46 pm
Use "Russian" rubber bullets, every sixth round is a live one, that will soon stop them. :police:
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: treeboa on August 09, 2011, 03:09:55 pm
to be honest i have been wondering when it would happen, police cuts have given the opening, no doubt the govenments recent cuts and attitude will have helped fuel it further than it already was, and now we hear the usual spouting of pm crap about people being taken to task, what com service - slaps on the wrist etc etc, cant lock them all up as the prisions are overflowing, hell you admit guilty your sentance is cut in half add to that as you go in the gate its cut again, the laws an ass and they cant use heavy hands for fear of appearing in court themselves

to throw a spanner in the works, have you considered some of this is due to public feeling on cuts yet when it comes down to sending money overseas there seems to be a bottomless wallet, i dont agree with whats happening but when you have a govenment that seem so out of touch it makes you wonder if theres more to come
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: essex2visuvesi on August 09, 2011, 03:23:44 pm
My stepson had an idea.... strategically placed snipers on the rooftops

Couple of shots into the crowd will soon send them running home
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: regiment on August 09, 2011, 03:46:56 pm
how right you are treeboa how much money have we sent over seas it is  not money but birth control and tractors  now we have the euro to worry about but do not forget we are all in this togeather  wonder what it is that  we are in    :-X :-X
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: DavieTait on August 09, 2011, 03:56:15 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-14461393

Numptie...
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 09, 2011, 04:09:08 pm
My stepson had an idea.... strategically placed snipers on the rooftops

Couple of shots into the crowd will soon send them running home

Is your stepson President Assad?   %)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 09, 2011, 04:10:53 pm

 Please provide your own 'pinch of salt!'

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086%2C-0.056305&spn=0.39294%2C0.630341&z=10&source=embed (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086%2C-0.056305&spn=0.39294%2C0.630341&z=10&source=embed)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Bryan Young on August 09, 2011, 04:48:16 pm
So what's new? If "people" think that they can get away with it (whatever "it" may be) then they'll go for it. Plus a bit of security in numbers. Nothing to do with "social deprivation" etc. It really is just an escalation, horrendous as it may be, of what youngsters have always done....especially when no parental control is evident. Throwing money at the problem will never work. Proper education might. So will taking a really tough line on drug abuse...and drinking, to some extent.
What's the population of London these days? How many of the millions are involved in this "disorder"? Catch the culprits and give them a sentence that'll be tough enough to bring on second thoughts.
And bring back proper policing with no more police acting as glorified social workers. BY.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: funtimefrankie on August 09, 2011, 04:57:05 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/15/theresa-may-cut-police-budget-without-violent-unrest

say no more.....................
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: essex2visuvesi on August 09, 2011, 05:30:29 pm
Is your stepson President Assad?   %)

He is 11 lol
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: funtimefrankie on August 09, 2011, 05:35:45 pm
Latest from the Tory Press office
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pettyofficernick on August 09, 2011, 05:52:57 pm
For a start, the govt. shuold insist on shutting down the social networking sites these people are using to communicate, my daughter tells me that they are allready planning tonights bout in Liverpool on facebook. There has been do gooders allreadt on tv blaming it all on 'social conditions', what a load of toshI grew up in the sixties and early seventies, we had no money, not many places to go but we made our own fun and did not cause trouble,  we would not have dared. more prisons, tougher sentencing policies and national service would play a large part in stopping all this stupidity, not buying them x-boxes and playstations and saying 'the poor dears, its not their fault' >>:-( >>:-( <*< <*< <*< <*< <*<
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: steamboatmodel on August 09, 2011, 06:00:42 pm
It would not surprise me if there were more copycat riots elsewhere giving more opportunities to loot before this eventually quietens down.
Problem is they are better organised this time with mobiles and blackberries to keep contact with other likeminded idiots.
Thank heavens my days as a Bobby are long gone - I remember the last riots in North Tyneside.

Geoff
RIM the maker of Blackberries have said they will be helping the police in identifying rioters
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Philipsparker on August 09, 2011, 06:13:49 pm
For a start, the govt. shuold insist on shutting down the social networking sites these people are using to communicate,

No need - the very same sites are being used to identify the perpetrators. Remember, you are tracked all the time online. And the Police can see these site too. Far better than letting them do it by harder to trace telephone.

Try http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/ (http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/) or http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/sets/72157627267892973/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/sets/72157627267892973/)

Of course, if it rains the little dears won't want to get wet. Better still if we used snipers and reduced the surplus population.

Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Made it to 80 (25p Richer now) on August 09, 2011, 06:15:15 pm
Bring back the cat and public floggings for those found guilty  :police:
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on August 09, 2011, 06:30:34 pm
Bring back the cat and public floggings for those found guilty  :police:

Well at least that sounds reasonable.
Seems like all the other "tounge in cheek" suggestions for military style put
downs are exactly what Libya and Syria are doing. And that's working for them isn't it...

Perhaps the youth need to be drafted and sent to war or Afghanistan so they can put
the excess energy to good use and get a better understanding of necessary violence.
At least get "it" out of their system.


 O0
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pettyofficernick on August 09, 2011, 06:53:51 pm
Daughter found this on facebook, seems some people are making light of the situation.
(http://s1.postimage.org/783coepw/boris.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/783coepw/)
 {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: funtimefrankie on August 09, 2011, 06:58:51 pm
Daughter found this on facebook, seems some people are making light of the situation.
(http://s1.postimage.org/783coepw/boris.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/783coepw/)
 {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Borris will try to get publicity any way he can :((
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: polaris on August 09, 2011, 07:43:38 pm

Dear All,

I think all this is the sad and ultimate indictment of the general education philosophy over the last twenty years... "let them express themselves, and encourage them to do so" - but the trouble is the 'authorities' and all those directing things, forgot the one critical little thing... discipline.

Regards, Bernard
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Shipmate60 on August 09, 2011, 07:55:20 pm
To me one of the main problems is the Police poor "clear-up rate".
There is little chance of them all being caught and if they are a small slap on the wrist so as not to impede their "Human Rights"
Rights without any responsibility of course.

Bob
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Arrow5 on August 09, 2011, 08:10:43 pm
Uh oh !  Glesca polis might be called in, run furrit :o <*<
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: balders on August 09, 2011, 09:00:12 pm
This is simply out and out lawlessness and to the perpetrators just a "bit of a laugh" as far as I can see.They know the consequences are minimal as they will probably be defended by some half wit social worker who will plead thier underpriveliged upbringing.
Is it not time that once a person wilfully breaks the law they should forego thier human rights and be dealt with harshly.Will we ever get a government with a bit of backbone who who act rather than talk tough?

                                                                                   Andy
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dodgy geezer on August 09, 2011, 09:37:40 pm
As regards the rioting, I place the blame as follows:

20% - Youths "xxxxx" off, and not as willing to tolerate authority as those in the 1950s. Probably a good thing.
30% - Youths "xxxxx" off, and more willing to commit vandalism and theft than those in the 1950s. Probably a bad thing.
50% - All police left the streets, leaving them quite open for everyone to phone up their pals and say - "There's free stuff out here - help yourself..."

I am cynical. I think that the police chiefs held their forces back because they knew that, if they did that, no policemen would get hurt and in a weeks time, they could have any budget they cared to imagine....
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: longshanks on August 09, 2011, 10:06:06 pm
Bring back National Service !!!!

Teach them respect and discipline, their parents obviously did not.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 09, 2011, 11:11:56 pm
Its our own fault..as a country we have a allowed the middle class guardian reading pc "elite" to run the country.The hand ringing.it's our fault we mustn't judge them by our standards because they are poor and come from a deprived background,brigade 

I'm tired the phrase "that we in the west are better than that" used in the context of any countries who's law and order polity our "elite" do not approve of...Some element of Sharia law looks better every day..
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 09, 2011, 11:25:27 pm
To me one of the main problems is the Police poor "clear-up rate".
There is little chance of them all being caught and if they are a small slap on the wrist so as not to impede their "Human Rights"
Rights without any responsibility of course.

Bob

Unfortunately Bob, that's the fault of the Courts. Two things cops need in court is proof and a judge with b*lls to deliver a stiff sentence. Another thing that needs to be done is for prisons to actually resemble prisons  - not holiday camps or 5 star hotels. Remove all the playstations, tv and 'perks'. You do the crime then you should forfeit most normal rights when in jail - and "xxxxx" european law and all that human rights b*llsh*t.

My wife nearly choked on her tea when they were talking on the news about how all these b*llicks where communicating with each other via blackberries etc. We work and can't afford them so how the heck are they if they are one the dole. I remember a while back where David Cameron said that he was going to ensure that the maximum benefit tarrif going into a house was something like £500 - I bl**dy work and don't even earn that a week >>:-(

Its no wonder we've so many sponger on the dole.  They're having a laugh at us muppets who work

 >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: MikeA on August 10, 2011, 12:27:00 am
in order to obtain law someone must break the law and wash away the vermin in a flood of lead
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: MikeA on August 10, 2011, 01:01:43 am
Unfortunately Bob, that's the fault of the Courts. Two things cops need in court is proof and a judge with b*lls to deliver a stiff sentence. Another thing that needs to be done is for prisons to actually resemble prisons  - not holiday camps or 5 star hotels. Remove all the playstations, tv and 'perks'. You do the crime then you should forfeit most normal rights when in jail - and "xxxxx" european law and all that human rights b*llsh*t.

My wife nearly choked on her tea when they were talking on the news about how all these b*llicks where communicating with each other via blackberries etc. We work and can't afford them so how the heck are they if they are one the dole. I remember a while back where David Cameron said that he was going to ensure that the maximum benefit tarrif going into a house was something like £500 - I bl**dy work and don't even earn that a week >>:-(

Its no wonder we've so many sponger on the dole.  They're having a laugh at us muppets who work

 >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

since i was 16 ive worked im now 25 and in that 9 year time gap ive had 10 careers all ending up to nothing. in the last 2 years ive been made redundant 3 times. When i was at school we were taught by the elders that computers and college education was our future, this advice proved to be fruitless in the long run because the generation that told us to educate is also the generation that employs us. Employers dont want educated people they want people with experience. So how is someone like me suppose to get experience if people wont employ me to gain it? Im a doley bum and im not proud of it. Im a trained mechanical engineer and in this town is becoming less and less required. Unemployment is massive because the hole town is supported on the back of the steel works. Soon this year 1500 people will be made redundant so when i apply for a job what chance in hell have i got angainst another 1000 people all with 20 years experience under there belt? Ive personally never known anyone get 500 pound a week benefit, i do know many people however who have had to sell there belongings just to eat though. 


Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: madrob on August 10, 2011, 01:12:50 am
in order to obtain law someone must break the law and wash away the vermin in a flood of lead

hell yeah
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: MikeA on August 10, 2011, 02:20:46 am
a few weeks ago a man was slated for the murder of 92 youths yet this week in a London he would be commended as a hero talk about the definition of irony!
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: brianB6 on August 10, 2011, 03:53:35 am
Send them here for a while:-
The treatment of inmates at Wandsworth Prison in London was "demeaning, unsafe and fell below what could be classed as decent", a report says.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 10, 2011, 09:19:43 am
Bring back National Service !!!!

Teach them respect and discipline, their parents obviously did not.


As an ex 22 year man who's son is near the end of his third tour of Afghanistan, let's put this in perspective  eh ?

The UK Armed forces don't want, need or have any time for the type of feral dross that we've seen on the streets of various towns and cities in the UK of late.
I don't mean the recent rioting and looting either ! The next time you have to pop along to the local convenience store early evening or late night, take a look at the "leaders of tomorrow" gathered outside said establishment. Listen to the utter garbage being "given it loud", and then please stop with this Bring Back National Service twaddle, because most of today's youth just DOESN'T have what it takes to be a member of a disciplined and effective team.
And furthermore, let's not forget that it was WE (our generation) that........................

Took away virtually all the disciplinary measures that teachers had at their disposal

Allowed legal action to be taken against parents who had the effrontery their offspring in the home

Told these young people (via various media methods) that they were a NO-ONE  unless they had, but not necessarily owned, the latest..
smart phone/games console/fashion wear...the list is endless !

Instigated the use of  ASBOs, which are totally ignored the majority of the time.............................................

I could rant on here for hours, but my message is that, whilst I personally have little or no time for the human dross we see every day on our streets, I would hope that maybe just a little of the blame for these events could be fairly placed at the door of several previous generations, who by their actions and greed have implanted the seed of "must have, will have" into the minds of so many of our "future citizens"

Ps  Did anyone ever hear of a social security office being looted and burnt ??

This just about sums it up I hope
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424


Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Philipsparker on August 10, 2011, 09:20:24 am
Before we get to the stage of arming all Policemen and letting them be judge, jury & executioner (fine until you get a copper who's having a bad day and you've parked badly), here's a thought:

A lot of these yobs claim to be bored, to have nothing to do. Yet when people look at us modellers making boats, the mejia claim we are all weirdos and wrong. Anyone see the issue ?

In this country, and many others, having an interest that isn't shopping, football or getting drunk is seen as a bad thing. We hobbyists hold the key to helping get the coutnry going. We are inventive. We can fill our time by ourselves with constructive activity. If we were in charge there would be no VAT on boat kits, Humbrol paint etc. and instead of running around like idiots, people would have interesting and stimulating activities to fill thier time. They would look forward to retirement rather than dread leaving a dead end job.

Keeping thier minds active would slow the growth of old-age mental ailments (ask anyone who works with old people who dies first, the ones with active mind or the TV watching vegetables).

But no, society uses "trainspotter" as a term of abuse more potent than "terrorist". Still I suppose it make for easy telly reporting.

Phil
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: essex2visuvesi on August 10, 2011, 10:16:12 am
Before we get to the stage of arming all Policemen and letting them be judge, jury & executioner (fine until you get a copper who's having a bad day and you've parked badly), here's a thought:



Pray its not this man
(http://www.denofgeek.com/siteimage/scale/800/600/6653.png)


Bu then again...... horses for courses as it were

Much of the problem as you say is down to a lack of respect for authority.  Thankfully Finnish police still command respect and authority

You are told once to do something by the police here... failure to comply results in arrest or if you are armed they will shoot you. No ifs buts or maybes. All officers act the same way and the Finns are fine with this. The police here are still respected and obeyed. Im not sure if this is because they are armed with pistols and carry heavier backup weapons in the vehicles lol but its a fact.
Also Finnish prison regime is far tougher than in the UK and an interesting point to note is that people reoffending after a prison sentance is much lower than the UK
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: mook on August 10, 2011, 10:38:39 am
I personally think they have a point just acting on it the wrong way
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: philk on August 10, 2011, 10:57:16 am
korky. as an ex serviceman myself you make the most sense to me. but then again we tend to have a different outlook on life.

Essex2visuvesi. if your police and country are like that feel blessed. you probably don't have the pathetic politicians we have.


rchammer.  oh dear



phil
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 10, 2011, 11:25:40 am
since i was 16 ive worked im now 25 and in that 9 year time gap ive had 10 careers all ending up to nothing. in the last 2 years ive been made redundant 3 times. When i was at school we were taught by the elders that computers and college education was our future, this advice proved to be fruitless in the long run because the generation that told us to educate is also the generation that employs us. Employers dont want educated people they want people with experience. So how is someone like me suppose to get experience if people wont employ me to gain it? Im a doley bum and im not proud of it. Im a trained mechanical engineer and in this town is becoming less and less required. Unemployment is massive because the hole town is supported on the back of the steel works. Soon this year 1500 people will be made redundant so when i apply for a job what chance in hell have i got angainst another 1000 people all with 20 years experience under there belt? Ive personally never known anyone get 500 pound a week benefit, i do know many people however who have had to sell there belongings just to eat though.

Hi Mad_mike.

I'm not knocking guys like yourself.  I was there myself for a brief period of time and wasn't happy with it. Over here in N.I, some people class me as a mug because I work and people have laughed in my face. One guy several years back said that 'for him to go back to work he would needs to be earning £350 per week to be at the same level he was at on benefits.  The average working wage was £200-£250 pwk!!

Back in the 80's even I could see that when computers where introduced, things were going to get 'interesting'. On top of that, when 'industry' started to be outsourced/transferred to other countries it came down to greed by elements of our political system and those in the know. Rich get richer, poorer get poorer.

Sorry if you thought I was having a dig all everyone on the dole.  I wasn't but it makes my blood boil when I see some people on the dole apparently better off that a working person becasue you know they are fiddling the system. I am lucky in that I do work but some times I wonder why I stress myself out working to keep the wolf from the door

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: sweeper on August 10, 2011, 11:57:33 am
It's easy to give knee jerk answers (arm police - lethal force etc.). A more positive move could be to drop the EU Human Rights Act and revert back to the "old" system such as was practiced some years ago. Those of a certain age will remember the methods used in (for example) The Isle of Man. A small touch of corporal punishment in the form of the birch. It stopped the hard lads from Glasgow in their tracks when they tried it on while on holiday. Of course it was banned by the EU as it "infringed the rights" of the wrong doers.
The simple lessson to these people is that if they offer violence to society then they must expect that same society will match it. Yes, the birch is painful but, according to the authorities that ran the system, it was more of a humiliation to the offenders.
As has been seen and heard on the media, it is easy to provide excuses such as poor backgrounds, education and the like. Many of the people using this forum will have had a similar life. I, for one, left school (a secondary modern) with no qualifications (you had to be a grammar school pupil to rise to those dizzy heights) and had to gain my education the hard way ie three nights a week at classes. Go out on the streets at night time to create mayhem? We were lucky to have time to breathe!
Sheer bloody minded determination got us out of the mess, along with another ten years of study. Having spent a good part of my working life dealing with this younger generation I found that the majority only wanted the wages offered (either by employers or state handouts) but certainly shied away from the concept that you had to work to get those gains.
A very sad state that this country has ended up with.
Regards.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: philk on August 10, 2011, 12:06:10 pm
sweeper. good idea about dropping the human rights act and bringing back real punishments. better still drop the whole eu that way british people might be able to get a job in there own country.

phil
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Netleyned on August 10, 2011, 01:50:35 pm
sweeper. good idea about dropping the human rights act and bringing back real punishments. better still drop the whole eu that way british people might be able to get a job in there own country.

phil

Yes, but who would harvest the food grown in East Anglia?
The indigenous population jobseekers refuse to do it.

Ned
Royal Navy 1959-1982
Worked ever since and retiring at the end of the month after
a working life of 52 years
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pettyofficernick on August 10, 2011, 03:39:19 pm
I have just seen footage of some Manchester Police seemingly jump on a ,looter, quite vigorously, do gooders are allready complaining about 'heavy handed' police tactics, WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO DO? one of the reasons for the escalation of this madness is that the police are frightened to react appropriately for fear of being castigated for undue use of force. We need to get out of the human rights nonsense spouted by the europhiles, what about the rights of the people who have lost businesses, had their shops and workplaces trashed, and have suffered trauma at the hands of these louts. I spend a lot of my spare time working with youngsters ( I am an adult volunteer in the Sea Cadet Corps) not all kids are bad, those I work with would not dream of getting involved in the sort of thing we have witnessed these past few days. there are many organisations like the SCC, but a lot of kids seem to pour scorn on them. I was working with a bloke a while ago, who upon hearing about my cadet activities remarked ' I wouldn't let my kids join something like that and have them turned into sissies' just about sums up the attitude of some people. What chance have we got to show our youth a better way with parental attitudes like that? It makes my blood boil, it really does. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( <*< <*< <*< <*<
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 10, 2011, 04:57:02 pm
Yes, but who would harvest the food grown in East Anglia?
The indigenous population jobseekers refuse to do it.

Ned
Royal Navy 1959-1982
Worked ever since and retiring at the end of the month after
a working life of 52 years

Wot!! You going to start sponging off us now by asking for a pension? Shame on you.  {-) {-) {-)

Well done and a Happy Retirement.

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 10, 2011, 05:03:41 pm
It's no good complaining... nobody in the social elite would listen, as most of us are not part of the political/media circle that now govern this country...we obviously did not take media studies at uni or belong to the right focus group...

Just to top this off... whats the betting after a discreet amount of time passes; Murdoch takes over BSB, the Sunday Sun is launched and Rebeka Brooks is welcomed back to the Murdoch fold....What no takers %)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: matphoto on August 10, 2011, 06:11:32 pm
Cameron has no right to say that some parts of the country are sick and morals need to be improved.  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( Just look at his history.

"The Bullingdon Club is a socially exclusive student dining club at Oxford University. The club has no permanent rooms and is notorious for its members' wealth and destructive binges.  <*< <*< <*< <*<
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: gingyer on August 10, 2011, 06:20:48 pm
I don't know if you have heard of the e-petition to have anyone on benfits caught rioting
to have all benefits stopped?
apparently if it gets 100,000 signatures it has to be debated in parliment it has 78,000 at present
I tried but apparently due to high demand cant get access
but here is the link

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?order=desc&sort=count&state=open (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?order=desc&sort=count&state=open)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: polaris on August 10, 2011, 06:45:13 pm

Dear All,

We must not forget the three people who were killed whilst trying to protect their shops/businesses in the Midlands.

When they ultimately catch the miscreants who killed these people, there is only one proper sentence... However, they will probably get so called life and then be out in seven years.....   >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Regards, Bernard
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: balders on August 10, 2011, 08:09:19 pm
Hi Gingyer,

             Just tried the link to government website and I could,nt log in to sign up.A timeley fault me thinks!
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pettyofficernick on August 10, 2011, 08:11:41 pm
same here, couldn't get to the fishfight one either
Title: Liverpool Smithdown .Lodge lane .
Post by: dave301bounty on August 10, 2011, 08:36:14 pm
This morning ,went to the Asda on Smithdown ,and the crowd that were voluteers ,brushing up ,there were two guys from good old Wallasey ,they had a message and came over pronto ,talking to some of the locals and last night was a very close thing ,with a mob of around 200 trying to get in and get the usual .Thing is ,they were challenge by a very brave fella ,and asked were did they come from ,they went to kill him or so it seems to him  but the message he got and later on  was they came to that store in big cars ,after trying another in Marsh lane ,these situations are scary to say the least ,but it was unfolding about this time last night ,the mob did there damage a bit further down ,and this afternoon there was a disturbance . I Was helping to evacuate the old Park hospital in the ,,81 riots and that was a bad time ,I saw some bad things ,but this has murder on it ,and total destruction ,very sad .
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 10, 2011, 08:51:58 pm
There are some interesting comments on vigilantism.

But if the Police are unable to assist or simply stand by watching, what is the alternative?

people are entitled to protect their safety and property.

Colin
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: DickyD on August 10, 2011, 09:36:53 pm
I don't know if you have heard of the e-petition to have anyone on benfits caught rioting
to have all benefits stopped?
apparently if it gets 100,000 signatures it has to be debated in parliment it has 78,000 at present
I tried but apparently due to high demand cant get access
but here is the link

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?order=desc&sort=count&state=open (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?order=desc&sort=count&state=open)

Still not working. >>:-(
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Arrow5 on August 10, 2011, 10:29:28 pm
There are some interesting comments on vigilantism.

But if the Police are unable to assist or simply stand by watching, what is the alternative?

people are entitled to protect their safety and property.

Colin
  Not if you are a farmer in Norfolk if I remember. >:-o
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Netleyned on August 10, 2011, 10:30:35 pm
Tried just now
'Sorry something went wrong'
HM Government
Too many MPs trying to get refunds on their holidays
has swamped the site  {:-{ {:-{

Ned
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 10, 2011, 10:49:35 pm

(http://s1.postimage.org/l7cx3clg/zcz_D0.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/l7cx3clg/)


Yeah...sure....   whatever !

 Jog on Dave !
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 11, 2011, 06:46:51 am
Unfortunately the Police just can't seem to get the right balance between doing nothing or behaving badly  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14482695

After watching this.... would you really want the police service armed..There has been a long line of police over reaction and the usual pathetic cover ups that fool nobody.

The police's accounts of the incident that kicked off the rioting and looting is already starting to look a little suspect.. 
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: treeboa on August 11, 2011, 09:13:29 am
if what apparently sparked it all off is correct - the shooting of a man armed with a side arm then as far as im concerned the police were right, he will have been warned by the firearms officer or he was thought to be at the point of using it, end the day the "idoit" chose to walk around with a firearm knowing what could happen,  it was not a toy/potato peeler/over ripe banana, a few years ago the police took out a nutter with a sword, got condemed for it, he was know to be unstable, would the hue n cry have been worse if he decapitated a few before they took him down ??, the other bloody heathern up north east, in my mind they took too long to drop him, dont talk - especially as he had previously proved he would use a firearm, i have a few mates who are ex coppers, all took early retirement because of the way the police service is now run, the motorist is an easy target, for all others they have one hand tied behind thier backs
 as for jail what a laugh, plead guilty and you have half your sentence, if your on tag prior to sentence then each day on tag gives you 1/2 a day off the term imposed, if remanded then its a day per day, as you walk through the prision gates your sentence is again slashed, the jails are overfull, the youth offenders are overfull - hell i was fishing with my youngest at a pond close to a `norty boys prision` he said yeah they go home for weekends !!  weres the sentence in that, way i see it theres roads to be cleaned, canals to be cleaned up, graffiti, dog turds, sea defence work, beach cleaning, ditch cleaning, etc , etc,  you get locked away, you do work, no work you live in a cell with two basic meals a day, no tv, no radio, no baccy nothing, you earn the nice things in life, you work chained to others, the likes of mail bags and the likes are saved for disabled prisioners or poor tards in there for failing to pay a debt, if bussels dont like the way we run it then tell brussels to take a hike

as for national service, ha so you train them, they then say soz im not fighting your war in wherever, what happens then, you jail them ??, the old national service ways would not be allowed in our liberal country, to many do gooders/pc muppits, mate of mine rang me a few years ago, the convo basically went,  Lord mike be glad you out, theres a load of new troop parading in trainers and dp, seems because they found boots too hard the attitude is supply trainers !!!, new recruits are given a card system, go too hard and you can be yellow carded or even red carded, christ help us, mr bin laden, your really nasty, heres my red card, im sorry sgt maj, this run away from the enemy is just too much, if you dont phone a taxi i will have to give you a yellow card

this country needs an enema, it needs inserting in downing street
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 11, 2011, 09:43:51 am
With permission from the author, I have the following to add from English ex pats in Canada ..........

My wife and I were born in east London and a north east suburb of London respectively. We grew up in wartime and post-war London. Our families had a home and enough to eat, but there was never a thought of spare money or luxuries. Everyone worked hard for what they got. Family life was strong as was the code of conduct expected of everyone in the community. We emigrated to Canada in our early 20s.

The riots have shocked and disgusted us. We have been proud of our British heritage but disassociate ourselves from current British society. We feel it was a huge mistake to allow mass immigration to such a small, overcrowded country. It has changed society and the racial diversity has just compounded the problems. Cultures don't mix and probably never will.

We had hoped the government might act more forcefully to put down these mobs. The police are overwhelmed, and perhaps the army should have been brought in ?

Why did it take four days for the PM and mayor to show up ?  What a total lack of effective leadership. King George VI and Queen Elizabeth stayed in London during the blitz. It would seem that Cameron was more concerned with a few more days in the sun in Italy!                                   Brian, Vancouver, Canada
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: polaris on August 11, 2011, 09:52:38 am

Dear Treeboa,

There is an alternative to Nat.Serv., and it could be based on the same principals as Nat.Serv..

Two years compulsory working for the Forestry Commission, Environment Agency (& similar), County Councils, and certain Inds. and businesses. As with Nat.Serv., those on the scheme would be moved to an entirely different area for the duration, would be accommodated and fed in/from Service style units, and would receive a nominal sum for a weekly spend. The penalties for AWOL and other misdemeanors would be the exact same as if it was Service Nat.Serv..

Basic, relatively easy to implement, a training/work experience (which would come as a bit of a shock to the system to some), and an immediate workforce for those mentionion above that presently are cutting back. Privileges could be offerred to those make an effort to do well. The only exemption from taking part would be absolute proof of already having a job or definite prospects of getting one - but if after a period of time they did not have a job, into the scheme they would go. Anyone on any benefits for longer than twelve months would automatically be in the scheme.

All this is a basic seed, but it is a workable scheme... and a scheme where all and everybody would gain.

Regards, Bernard
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 11, 2011, 10:33:48 am
Korky,

My wife and I visited Vancouver about this time last year and had a great time in a civilised city. However it was only a few months ago that you had rioting of your own when the local hockey(?) team lost to someone else. A lot of people over here felt very surprised and shocked by that - not something you associate with Canada.

You have these lawless elements everywhere, sometimes they get out of control.



Colin
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: essex2visuvesi on August 11, 2011, 10:43:40 am
Dear Treeboa,

There is an alternative to Nat.Serv., and it could be based on the same principals as Nat.Serv..

Two years compulsory working for the Forestry Commission, Environment Agency (& similar), County Councils, and certain Inds. and businesses. As with Nat.Serv., those on the scheme would be moved to an entirely different area for the duration, would be accommodated and fed in/from Service style units, and would receive a nominal sum for a weekly spend. The penalties for AWOL and other misdemeanors would be the exact same as if it was Service Nat.Serv..

Basic, relatively easy to implement, a training/work experience (which would come as a bit of a shock to the system to some), and an immediate workforce for those mentionion above that presently are cutting back. Privileges could be offerred to those make an effort to do well. The only exemption from taking part would be absolute proof of already having a job or definite prospects of getting one - but if after a period of time they did not have a job, into the scheme they would go. Anyone on any benefits for longer than twelve months would automatically be in the scheme.

All this is a basic seed, but it is a workable scheme... and a scheme where all and everybody would gain.

Regards, Bernard

They have a similar thing here in Finland.... you have up to days unemployment to find a job on your own then its off to training and work placements.  Failiure to comply results in loss of benefits also single mothers are encouraged to work however childcare here is much easier to find (and more affordable) as most schools have a creche available to working mothers with children aged 6 months and over.


So glad I have left the UK
We also still have national service here.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 11, 2011, 11:38:10 am
Korky,

My wife and I visited Vancouver about this time last year and had a great time in a civilised city. However it was only a few months ago that you had rioting of your own when the local hockey(?) team lost to someone else. A lot of people over here felt very surprised and shocked by that - not something you associate with Canada.

You have these lawless elements everywhere, sometimes they get out of control.



Colin


Colin

Please note that I posted these comments on behalf of an expat Brit who now lives and works in canada.

As for me , I HAD the chance to start a new life in the USA, but unfortunately came back to the UK a few years ago, a decision I have regretted ever since !
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 11, 2011, 12:08:32 pm
Sorry, thought you'd signed it Brian of Vancouver. That's the sort of thing that happens when people use aliases on Forums. Confusing.

Still happened in Canada though and there are reports that gang violence is spilling over in Gold Coast, Australia - not far (relatively spaking) from where Peter Fitness lives.

Colin (real name)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 11, 2011, 12:57:06 pm
Sorry, thought you'd signed it Brian of Vancouver. That's the sort of thing that happens when people use aliases on Forums. Confusing.

Still happened in Canada though and there are reports that gang violence is spilling over in Gold Coast, Australia - not far (relatively spaking) from where Peter Fitness lives.

Colin (real name)


Not inferring that Peter is involved in this sort of nefarious activity are you ?  our very own Peter....never !   P. Pitstop would never forgive him

At least those places have  police forces that don't have their hands tied in times of real emergency by that wonderful organisation known as the Equality and Human Rights Commission !

Korky ( my cat's real name )
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 11, 2011, 01:04:56 pm
Quote
Not inferring that Peter is involved in this sort of nefarious activity are you ?

He's the local Mr Big! Moderation without moderation.....

OK Peter?

Colin
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Philipsparker on August 11, 2011, 04:34:58 pm
  Not if you are a farmer in Norfolk if I remember. >:-o

He shot them in the back. That's not self defence. If he'd shot them in the face, every legal expert I've heard (Include Police officers) says he would have got away with it.

Of course, he had a farm so could have just buried the bodies. It's not like burglars leave forwarding addresses is it ?

Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Philipsparker on August 11, 2011, 04:44:07 pm
The problem with National Service is that it includes everyone. It's also not a punishment if done properly.

Look at it this way, would you be happy to see your son or daughter (yes, equal ops now) dead in a desert for a Prime Ministers vanity war ? You would argue that they weren't causing the trouble so why should they be punished etc. etc. And quite right too. Despite the media fuss, there wern't that many people involved and so it seems a bit rich to punish everyone. Did you see the community clear-ups ? They were the same people you want to send to thier deaths.

Also, do you think the army want to be lumbered with these people ? I suspect they also have better things to do. Even solidering is pretty sophisticated these days.

Now some sort of sheme where everyone does some community service has a lot going for it. Trouble is, the people causing this trouble wouldn't turn up and if they did they would be more hasstle than they were worth. I remember struggling in class as a child with the kids who simply didn't want to learn. One of them could stop an entire lesson.

So the solution is more riots combined with snippers on rooftops. That will cut the surplus population !
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 11, 2011, 04:55:22 pm
You want to train these guys to use guns and other weapons  properly... :o
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 11, 2011, 04:59:09 pm
Quote
So the solution is more riots combined with snippers on rooftops. That will cut the surplus population !

Maybe not in quite the way you meant..... %)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 11, 2011, 05:12:56 pm
You want to train these guys to use guns and other weapons  properly... :o


Which "guys" are these you mention D ?
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: polaris on August 11, 2011, 07:15:35 pm

Dear Phillip,

Per a prev. Post (please look back), my idea is not necessarily 'Service' Nat. Serv., but a constructive Nat.Serv. within GB to work with and within Public Sector Orgs., and suitable Co.'s., with the intention to teach and for them to get work experience. It would however have to be run very formally, and the penalties for not doing what one is supposed to do would be the exact same as with a Service Nat.Serv..

Yes it would include all (as per many Euro countries). As to a military Nat.Serv. scenario, this could well be tailored to be non-active service, non-weapons etc., etc., and those service personell looking after the scheme could be those service people who might not want to retire. At the end of the day, the cost of both schemes would possibly be covered by what otherwise would have been paid in DHSS payments, since the age range could be between school leaving age to 30 - or any long term unemployed up to 30. The only exception to all of this are those school leavers who could prove an academic standard that enables them to proceed to University, but, should they drop out of Univ., or then have to sign on after leaving, they would then have to become part of either the scheme. The whole idea of all of this is to provide an incentive that presently isn't there.

All this in brief of course.

Regards, Bernard
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dreadnought72 on August 11, 2011, 07:24:22 pm
So the solution is more riots combined with snippers on rooftops. That will cut the surplus population !

 :embarrassed: A "snipper" in a hospital did a good job in stopping me producing any more surplus population.  {-)

Meanwhile...

National Service? Why not? Not the military, though - for all the reasons mentioned above. That doesn't prevent us from having community-based services, overseas-aid services, doing positive tasks here and abroad for all the right reasons.

Andy
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pugwash on August 11, 2011, 07:54:10 pm
Andy don't mention the "snip" - I elected to have mine on the friday of my weekend off - then someone offered me overtime
at the County Show - couldn't resist.  All fine until a little boy went missing and was found on the main East coast railway
and I was lifting him back over the barbed wire fence(straddling said fence) when I slipped and barbs hooked me in a very tender
and swollen spot - brings me out in  cold shivers thinking about it!!!
Came very close to speaking in a high pitched voice

Geoff
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: mikearace on August 11, 2011, 07:57:11 pm
It is bad news indeed. There has been shooting in Tooting, arson in Arsenal, looting in Luton and stealing in Ealing.

Ladies in Bucks are advised to stay indoors tonight.

Meanwhile in court this morning, Wayne Jason Chav, 24, of Toxteth had to explain how he covered 100 metres in 10.2 seconds whilst carrying a 60 inch plasma TV whilst at the same time being in receipt of disability benefit.

Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: richtea on August 11, 2011, 08:05:13 pm
It is bad news indeed. There has been shooting in Tooting, arson in Arsenal, looting in Luton and stealing in Ealing.

Ladies in Bucks are advised to stay indoors tonight.

Meanwhile in court this morning, Wayne Jason Chav, 24, of Toxteth had to explain how he covered 100 metres in 10.2 seconds whilst carrying a 60 inch plasma TV whilst at the same time being in receipt of disability benefit.



Now we know who wrote the scripts for the two Ronnies !

 {-) {-) :-))
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: DickyD on August 11, 2011, 08:50:15 pm
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/hm_gov.gif)

Sorry, e-petitions is temporarily unavailable.
The e-petitions site is having problems at the moment. We need to temporarily suspend the creation and signing of e-petitions to allow us to make sure everything is working properly for you.

We aim to re-open the e-petitions site by Friday morning (12th August).

We're very sorry for the inconvenience this causes you.

The e-petition entitled “Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits” has now passed the threshold of 100,000 signatures and has been passed to the Backbench Business Committee to consider for debate. It will continue to be available for signature once the site is re-opened.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Brian_C on August 11, 2011, 08:57:40 pm
the troubles have started in ireland now,,,  paddy just smashed his computer screen and tried to rob ebay !  {-)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: mikearace on August 11, 2011, 09:02:20 pm
After looting Ladbrokes and losing £50

24 Dublin rioters also looted Argos this afternoon - last message was they were still waiting at Delivery Point C1 for the goods....
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Brian_C on August 11, 2011, 09:03:50 pm
 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) :-))
 
tottenham have just signed their super fast striker  Grabatelli
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 11, 2011, 10:33:28 pm

Which "guys" are these you mention D ?


Korky... I was just thinking... that all this talk of national service and the army is probably not such a good idea; if you end up making these "young people" more proficient with weapons...

Me I would put them in orange boiler suits with the words SCUM on the back,chain them together and get them to clean up the mess.. Just as they do in some states in the USA..
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: richtea on August 11, 2011, 11:56:51 pm


Korky... I was just thinking... that all this talk of national service and the army is probably not such a good idea; if you end up making these "young people" more proficient with weapons...

Me I would put them in orange boiler suits with the words SCUM on the back,chain them together and get them to clean up the mess.. Just as they do in some states in the USA..

Our poor downtrodden would probably think orange boiler suits were a badge of honour, how about bright pink, in some institutions in the USA the inmates detest pink.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 12, 2011, 12:02:14 am
Yep! Pink - with tassels....
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 12, 2011, 12:16:13 am
Whichever way you prefer to look at it....I somehow think that the following doesn't make easy reading somehow !!


(http://s3.postimage.org/2wh4smatg/54549324_riot_crimes464.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2wh4smatg/)



and as for the the punishment angle ......simples

Bung the male offenders in a wooden shed

Tie 'em to a chair

Nail their wi**y to the chair

Give 'em a sharp knife

Set the hut afire

Instant Contraception....simples  innit ?
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: philk on August 12, 2011, 12:45:08 am
Whichever way you prefer to look at it....I somehow think that the following doesn't make easy reading somehow !!


(http://s3.postimage.org/2wh4smatg/54549324_riot_crimes464.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2wh4smatg/)



and as for the the punishment angle ......simples

Bung the male offenders in a wooden shed

Tie 'em to a chair

Nail their wi**y to the chair

Give 'em a sharp knife

Set the hut afire

Instant Contraception....simples  innit ?



korky for president


Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pugwash on August 12, 2011, 12:48:31 am
Of what the, Khmer Rouge or the KGB or perhaps the Spanish Inquisition

Geoff
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 12, 2011, 12:53:25 am
After looting Ladbrokes and losing £50

24 Dublin rioters also looted Argos this afternoon - last message was they were still waiting at Delivery Point C1 for the goods....


Wots this.  Back to bashing us paddy's  <*< <*<

and were were going to lend you a load of paddy wagons and a couple of water cannons. {-) {-)

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Mike S on August 12, 2011, 09:51:12 am
Best one I've heard so far . . . .

Colonel Gaddafi says Libya now recognising London rioters as legitimate UK government


Perhaps there's a grain of truth in there somewhere ?


Cheers,

Mike
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Arrow5 on August 12, 2011, 10:07:08 am
Yep! Pink - with tassels....
  Nothing wrong with the old mailbag material with broad arrows stencilled on in black...do-gooders might approve if they did it themselves in the art class.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Circlip on August 12, 2011, 10:46:48 am
Quote
“Convicted London rioters should loose all benefits”

 What a superb idea!

 The police will luv the extra work chasing an increase in mugging.  Einstien? " Every action - - - " and all that, but then we could bring back hanging.

  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pettyofficernick on August 12, 2011, 11:16:05 am
My cousin Paddy looted Argos in Dublin. They've got 2000 catalogues if anyone wants one. %% %% %% %% %%
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Circlip on August 12, 2011, 11:17:30 am
I have been known to be cynical at times, Oh yes I have, but I will be listening closely to the extenuating circumstances surrounding a female social workers "Not Guilty" plea to handling 4 TV's, an electric drill and various other pieces of electrical equipment from their very recent disappearance from her local branch of Curry's.

 I've Said on other forums and this one many times, It's always someone elses kids.

  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: malcolmfrary on August 12, 2011, 11:30:06 am
The human right act just needs its scope defining properly.  Anybody found guilty of thievery has denied somebody else of their human rights to their property, and so has yet another crime to pay for.  Possibly this should include a severe loss of rights incorporated into the prison regime, overcrowding being part of it.

(http://s2.postimage.org/163abhnfo/boris.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/163abhnfo/)
As Boris might say "Stop this piffle at once!!"
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 12, 2011, 11:34:14 am
I have been known to be cynical at times, Oh yes I have, but I will be listening closely to the extenuating circumstances surrounding a female social workers "Not Guilty" plea to handling 4 TV's, an electric drill and various other pieces of electrical equipment from their very recent disappearance from her local branch of Curry's.

 I've Said on other forums and this one many times, It's always someone elses kids.

  Regards  Ian.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14501790


Thankfully, that isn't always the case...and we have to admire this lady for making what MUST have been a very difficult decision.

I somehow think (and probably her too) that her action might just call a halt to any re occurrences of this behaviour by her "offspring"   I sincerely hope that this will be the case !

Korky
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on August 12, 2011, 11:41:23 am
 

Quote ..................  BBC

A 15-year-old boy who was pictured trying to prise open shutters of a shop in Salford has been arrested after his mother handed him in to police.





Wonderful news    :-))                Now we're getting somewhere.  This is hope.


ken

Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 12, 2011, 11:58:52 am
Quote
A 15-year-old boy who was pictured trying to prise open shutters of a shop in Salford has been arrested after his mother handed him in to police.

She may have been trying to get rid of him for ages.....
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Korky on August 12, 2011, 12:21:24 pm
Of what the, Khmer Rouge or the KGB or perhaps the Spanish Inquisition

Geoff

None of the above....maybe President of       LET'S TAKE OUR STREETS BACKSVILLE !
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dpbarry on August 12, 2011, 01:23:14 pm
Just listened to the muppet who said it was payback for him not getting a job in the comet store where he left in his CV.

Won't or shouldn't take the cops long to identify him if comet can give the cops access to CV's  {-)

Its like a badge of honor this looting.  >>:-(

I need a new radio system.  Wonder should I start a riot near a store and loot one 

I can't see a solution to this. If you stop benefits etc, there will be more looting and more riots but for the law abiding citizens, it looking like we are the mugs working.

The government have made a complete Ar*e of this

Declan
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: essex2visuvesi on August 12, 2011, 03:00:03 pm
Kenny's solution seems quite appropriate here:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMHDBL7CNA4
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: baloo on August 12, 2011, 06:31:58 pm
When these idiots are caught,send them to afganistan instead of the troops.They wont be so clever out there
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 12, 2011, 06:53:59 pm
Quote
When these idiots are caught,send them to afganistan instead of the troops.They wont be so clever out there

Is that really a serious suggestion? Doesn't sound very pratical to me.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: craftysod on August 12, 2011, 07:49:07 pm
A lot probably came from there in the first place,or other countries,and our benefit system isnt paying the scum enough
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Colin Bishop on August 12, 2011, 08:03:56 pm
Quote
A lot probably came from there in the first place,or other countries,and our benefit system isnt paying the scum enough

If you have been watching the news tonight or reading today's papers, you will see that doesn't seem to be the case. Most of the looting and violence appears to be home grown. And many of those convicted are hardly on the poverty line.

The people who did this need to be caught and punished but the underlying causes are not simple although lack of parental authority and the breakdown of the traditional family structure would seem to be a significant influence.

Kids need role models and, like it or not, this is best delivered in a family environment with both parents present, sadly not the case in too many instances these days. Commonly the father leaves home and the mother is literally left holding the baby and when it come to a single mother trying to assert her authority over a young adolescent male, as was graphically demonstrated on TV this morning,  then the situation becomes very difficult indeed.

Colin
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: malcolmfrary on August 13, 2011, 10:31:03 am
The actual troubles were bad enough.  When you add in the extra trouble caused by twitterers and suchlike starting rumors among people who regard any spurious drivel as gospel in preference to actual facts you get the copycats in other towns going to join in a non existent riot, and having to start their own.  I was looking at the BBC homepage and followed one of the stories, and looked at the responses.  There was one respondent who was deeply miffed that their local news was talking of local troubles when none existed.  It seems their information was unsubstantiated twitter, but, despite being directly informed of the actual facts, were determined to keep the story going, possibly in the hope of eventually being proved right.  Effectively, until independently checked, this is also just another story.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dodgy geezer on August 13, 2011, 01:40:37 pm
The Englishman ( http://www.anenglishmanscastle.com/ ) has a view on it all....

"...As far as I can see no one seems to be pointing out the essential cause of all these riots. Rioting is fun, exciting and you get to pick a prize at the end. Even young bloods at Oxford have been known to smash stuff up for the hell of it. It relieves the tedium of it all.

The reason you and I don't do it is that the penalties outweigh the rewards. Penalties that are worn as badges of honour by some would be the end of our careers and our social standing.

The long term solution is about enabling people to have personal respect and ambition, freed from the serfdom of the council ghettos.
 Make them more boringly middle class like us.

Immediately the balance between risk and reward needs to be tilted to disincentivise the behaviour.
 And how to rebalance that cannot be understood unless it is acknowledged the sheer bloody thrill of being a rioting looter..."
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 13, 2011, 02:10:08 pm
This piece say's it as well as any comment I have seen so far   http://order-order.com/2011/08/13/harriet-harman-is-gangsta-mutha-1/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+guidofawkes+%28Guy+Fawkes%27+blog+of+parliamentary+plots%2C+rumours+and+conspiracy%29..

The corrosive effect of the loony left has left it's mark on all political partys
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 14, 2011, 05:19:58 pm
 ok2
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: deadwood on August 14, 2011, 06:20:08 pm
Hi Martin,

is there any deeper meaning why the depicted rioter has snatched the red Olympic ring (of the London 2012 games?) which usually represents the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_symbols)?
So to speak, tearing out with it the root cause of the system's meltdown experienced by so many countries that adopted US capitalism? %)
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 14, 2011, 06:54:05 pm
Is German capitalism any different from American capitalism ? Is there a better spread of wealth across its population.... ;) Are their rich so much poorer than the American or the UK rich

Capitalism is now a world system the Americans are just part of it...
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Bryan Young on August 14, 2011, 07:05:36 pm
Just listened to the muppet who said it was payback for him not getting a job in the comet store where he left in his CV.

Won't or shouldn't take the cops long to identify him if comet can give the cops access to CV's  {-)

Its like a badge of honor this looting.  >>:-(

I need a new radio system.  Wonder should I start a riot near a store and loot one 

I can't see a solution to this. If you stop benefits etc, there will be more looting and more riots but for the law abiding citizens, it looking like we are the mugs working.

The government have made a complete Ar*e of this

Declan
Don't agree...the police made it themselves.BY.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Nordsee on August 14, 2011, 07:22:50 pm
Is German capitalism any different from American capitalism ? Is there a better spread of wealth across its population.... ;) Are their rich so much poorer than the American or the UK rich

Capitalism is now a world system the Americans are just part of it...
I have been living in Germany for over 35 years and I have come to the conclusion that Germany is controlled, not by the Government ( Mutti Mercle) but by about 100 top Bankers and Industriliasts, they control  all the money and The Cabinet does what they wish. They are faceless, shy from the Media, and control the Justice System. If any are suspected of corruption the case disappears in a welter of paperwork and closed Court hearings. Convictions are rare, if not non excistant..
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Cargo on August 14, 2011, 07:44:07 pm
I have been living in Germany for over 35 years and I have come to the conclusion that Germany is controlled, not by the Government ( Mutti Mercle) but by about 100 top Bankers and Industriliasts, they control  all the money and The Cabinet does what they wish. They are faceless, shy from the Media, and control the Justice System. If any are suspected of corruption the case disappears in a welter of paperwork and closed Court hearings. 

A little to easy. This is not only in Germany so, its a phenomenon of any capitalistic Country (maybe by mankind itself). We are all the same by law, but some are more the "same". Especially when they can buy the better lawyers  ok2
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: deadwood on August 14, 2011, 07:44:40 pm
Is German capitalism any different from American capitalism ?
Not much, but there are subtle differences.
Quote from: Dekan
Is there a better spread of wealth across its population.... ;)
We were hit by the crisis almost as hard as other nations.
But the spread of wealth across the population indeed seems to be a wee bit more equalized than in many other hit countries.
So much that the biting effects haven't yet been sensed by the majority,
also thanks to a maybe more tightly woven social net and to the circumstance that many cuts and austerity measures had been taken in the years before the bubble burst.
Quote from: Dekan
Are their rich so much poorer than the American or the UK rich
Seems that the upper and lower ends aren't that pronounced.
Quote from: Dekan
Capitalism is now a world system the Americans are just part of it...
A great contributing factor to the financial meltdown can be found in the totally unregulated markets of Anglo-American provenience for collateralized debt obligations and other highly obscure derivatives that allowed to hide those subprime mortgages.
Excruciatingly, some of our federal state banks (i.e. Landesbanken) had the hubris and effrontery to speculate on these papers and in the aftermath needed to be bailed out by billions of tax payers' Euros.
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Dekan on August 14, 2011, 11:05:20 pm
Capitalism, most commentator agree, as a concept started in Europe...In about the 1600's.

I agree that the sub-prime scandal exposed the public to the concept that rich have been enjoying since capitalisms birth.. that is if you or your company are big enough and rich enough... the ordinary man with continue to subsidize you...

For example according to current US statistics  50% of their population either pay very little tax or none at all. A large proportion of this stat it's claimed are the "tax dodging rich" ....It is much more difficult to find out what proportion of the UK's rich enjoy a similar situation

The meek will inherit the earth...but only if the rich let them %)

If you think the situation in Germany is bad....Japan is much worse.. :o
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: philk on August 14, 2011, 11:46:14 pm
deadwood.  are you sure your in berlin. you write english like an english capitalist    ;)

phil
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: polaris on August 18, 2011, 09:32:39 pm

Dear Dekan,

I think we should get things into perspective.

Apx. 30% of the GB population don't pay Tax as they either don't earn enough and a further apx. 10% are unemployed, thus why personal Tax bands vary up to a max. of 48% or thereabouts... plus Corp. Tax, and all the other business Taxes that ensure those in business only employ the absolute necessity of Staff.

Regards, Bernard
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: dodgy geezer on August 19, 2011, 05:28:37 pm
Cameron on Andy Coulson:

"...I think in life it is right to give someone a second chance..."    :-)

Cameron on the 'lower classes':

“The people who have criminal offences can expect no mercy...If you are old enough to commit these crimes you are old enough to face the punishment"”    :((

And Cameron's own past?

"A television documentary was devoted to one particular night in 1987 -- when both Cameron and the current London mayor, Boris Johnson, were Bullingdon members – during which club members were arrested for causing havoc in Oxford and broke a restaurant window. Cameron claimed he went to bed early on the night in question, but the Financial Times reported in 2010 that he was "most definitely" at the party. An old Bullingdon friend told the paper that Cameron's determination not be caught was "extraordinary."    :o :o
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: Arrow5 on August 19, 2011, 07:37:50 pm
I see some twit <*< has an E-petition to the effect that those convicted of English city violence should spend some time in the Outer Hebrides as punishment !  He thinks they will have none of the "comforts" of an English city, running water,electricity, decent food, culture and shopping will put them on the straight and narrow and frighten them not to riot or loot again. He must mean un-inhabited islands in the Hebrides, as the local MP pointed out tourist flock to the Isles in hundreds of thousands every year. Not much of a punishment IMHO. >>:-( >>:-( >:-o
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: pugwash on August 19, 2011, 07:43:52 pm
Don't forgeet them as live "darn sarf" think the Outer Hebrides are somewhere up near the North Pole.  Its one of my favourite
flyfishing destinations so if someone wants to send me up there for a few weeks punishment I'll go and break a window now.

Geoff
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: craftysod on August 21, 2011, 08:09:52 pm
I cant remember seeing a policeman on our streets,we see loads in there bmw's,sitting for someone doing 32mph,
Yet we get these plastic pigs,also known as community officers,who cant enforce laws patrol like they own the place,
but the thugs/idiots  just laugh at them
Title: Re: London Violence
Post by: john s 2 on August 21, 2011, 08:40:17 pm
Are the newspapers now not reporting looting? At about 5.30Am my daughter last Thursday went to use Brixton railway station. It was closed The buildings next to it were well alight.No report in papers.Why? John.