Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Boughtonfields on September 20, 2011, 05:27:08 pm
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Hello All,
Here goes then - my first ever model boat build and it's going to be the Yorkshireman from Modelslipway (the old version of the kit)
I must say, the kit looks good but there are thousands of bits & pieces
(well maybe not thousands, but it looks like it!)
First job must be to sort out whats what and read the instructions (again)
Although I've not started yet, already I have some questions...
I guess before I go too mad I'm going to need to think about electrics & where it's all going to fit.
I have a copy of 'Action Electronics' suggested setup for the Yorkshireman comprising:
P102 PWR Dist Board
P94 Dual ESC & Mixer
P93 Mulit Controller
P95/2 & P95/1 Fuse boards
Would you think this the best setup? Are there others I should consider?
I'd like to keep it fairly straight-forward and uncomplicated and the Action Electronics setup looks like it'll fit the bill, but I'd welcome your suggestions.
Then for the radio control...
Basically I have no idea what I should get!
I guess 4 channel would be sensible (for future proofing)
I'd be grateful if you could suggest makes/models of radio gear for me.
Budget isn't too much of a problem. I'd like the kit to be simple to setup & use, robust & reliable.
Thanks in advance for all your help.
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You cant go wrong if you use the ACTion electrics, thats the way I went, its excellent and Dave is very helpful should you have problems or need advice.
If you are going to use 2.4 radio control the cheaper end of the market can be problem with ACTion P94.
I run mine on 2 channel 40 megs which you can pick up dead cheap nowadays.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Al%20Khubar/DSCF0158.jpg)
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Action Electronics it is then. They do seem to get quite a lot of praise on here!
So (according to google) 2.4Ghz is the 'future', so is there a good 2.4 radio set you'd recommend?
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I have a Planet5 which is fine for ordinary use but I havent tried it with the P94 yet.
Did try with the Giant Cod but had problems with set up of P94.
Have a word with Dave at ACTion, he'll be able to help you.
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have you built any models before??
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so is there a good 2.4 radio set you'd recommend?
Hitec Optic 6 would be my choice, both for quality and value. Avoid the Futaba 6J for the time being - there are issues with their s-FHSS system which haven't been resolved yet e.g. only four of the 6 channels work if you opt for s-FHSS instead of FHSS + our P94 is not currently compatible with this particular set. Cheap Chinese sets are OK but some have questionable QC and widely-varying signal pulse widths @ neutral. Some also have limited range.
DM
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Thanks for the tips everyone!
Jackie - got your message - many thanks.
Mad Mike - not really done a great deal of modelling, just as a lad really (many moons ago!). Built some Airfix kits and got into control line model aircraft for a while.
I am a 'practical' type of person doing various maintenance/electrical jobs over the years, so I'm hoping those skills will transfer to the model, but don't doubt I'll get stuck plenty!
Dave - thanks for the info. I'll hopefully be giving you a ring to order the bits soon.
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keep us posted then :}
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Quick update...
Ordered the radio control gear over the weekend - Hitec Optic 6 2.4GHz
Ordered the 'standard' setup from Action Electronics today - P93, P94, Dist Board & Fuse boards as per their drawing on the website.
Also picked up a bow thruster (Robbe 1155) from a boot fair for 50p!
Also had a good look at most of the parts in the kit and I don't really think this is a 'dining table' project.
Might have to delay things a little while I find a nook or cranny to act as the workshop...
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Radio Gear arrived - very posh it looks too. Just a shame the instruction manual is completely incomprehensible!
Never mind, I turned it on, wiggled the sticks and the servos move - setup complete!
Action Electronics arrived too. Ordered Monday, delivered Tuesday - top service.
Spares from Model Slipway arrived too (thanks Jackie)
So with all this gear in my hands, I just have to build a workbench somewhere and it'll be time to get started...
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Well I think everything is in place.
Not the largest workbench, but all I can fit in my little house!
Must be time to make a start...
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cracking workspace. i working on the kitchen table cos my house is small too.
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Well I've finally made a start and have gone a bit mad before I remembered to take some photos!
Started with a stand. Just some MDF from the shed, some foam (shed) and gaffer tape to hold the foam on.
I'll make a 'nice' stand when it's complete.
Running gear was a complete nightmare. The assembly is simple enough, but figuring out how to glue it all together and end up with it lined up & pointing in the right direction was a challenge.
Must've put it together 10 times dry before I set about it with the araldite. The rear uprights (that centre the propshafts) were cast for me by a mate as they were missing from the kit. Considering he made them from scratch with mostly guesswork I thought they came out superb. The beers were on me!
Put a rough coat of red oxide on the see how it looks,and I don't think it's too bad!
Also glued in the propshafts & covers, drilled many holes in the hull for portholes etc and roughed out holes for the bow thruster.
Few pics below & I'll keep you up to date!
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A fair bit done there already so great progress
cracking workspace. i working on the kitchen table cos my house is small too
I once even air brushed in the kitchen thinking I could do it so neatly and contain any overspray against a cardboard box backing plate. Wrong. The wife was pretty good about it I have to say, so fair play to her she could have gone really mad. But, as it was she didnt go too much overboard, on the third day the swelling was going down and I could open my eyes a little bit. On the fourth day I could move my arm and after a week I managed to pee properly.
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Worked overnight last night so had some time to myself this afternoon to do a bit more...
Put the Robbe bow thruster together which was easy, but the design seemed a bit over complicated?
Still, as I got it for 50p from a boot fair, I can't complain!
Thought I'd add some support for the motor body, rather than have it 'hanging' on the tubes.
Once glued in though, the support looks rather unnessecary - don't think it'll ever come out though!
Used P40 to glue the thruster in (seen it used elseware in this forum) and P38 for the filler.
I'll wait for it all to set nice & hard before I start sanding - must be time for a cuppa...
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Will you be able to get at the screws on the thruster when the deck is on?
I have found with a few models it has been very hard to get at the motor
unless the unit is tilted back a bit.
Murphy's Law If you can't get to it, it goes wrong!
Otherwise it's looking good so far
Ned
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Hi Ned,
I very much doubt it.
After much thought, I decided just to mount it vertical.
Even at an angle, it would be a nightmare to get at.
Also wondered about water getting up to the motor so with it vertical the motor sits higher, so should be further above the waterline.
I guess if it packs up - I'll have to lump it!
It's all sanded now...
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looks like you are off to a nice start.. keep the photos comoing there shipmate. :-))
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Done a little bit more...
Mounted the rudder servo and rudder linkages:
(http://s4.postimage.org/2bdprczdw/DSC01912.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2bdprczdw/)
Made a ply box to keep the battery secure & mounted the motors to each side of the box & pwr dist board to one end.
Thought I'd put the receiver at the other end - away from all the main electrics?
(http://s4.postimage.org/2be7y9stg/DSC01913.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2be7y9stg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2be9lt5b8/DSC01915.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2be9lt5b8/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2beg7yjac/DSC01914.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2beg7yjac/)
Could then mount the main electrics on a board between the batt box & thruster?
(http://s4.postimage.org/2betg9b8k/DSC01916.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2betg9b8k/)
Just waiting for some cable (going to use 25amp car cable) to wire it all up!
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Oh! Little pictures! Sorry!
(Don't know what happened there)
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No, they're OK, just double click the photos for the larger size!
BTW, you might want to use a more substantial link for the servo > tiller rod....
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I grant you - they look a bit flimsy in the pic, but both rods are stainless steel.
The rod from the servo to rudder, although cranked is very stiff and operates the rudders without any flex.
It looks ok to me, but what would you recommend I used?
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not to argue with martin but i use those 2mm stainless piano wire rods and ive never had a problem but saying that martin has more experience than i do.
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I tend to agree with Martin, stronger servo links would be good, also the screws inside your battery box should be covered to stop the possibility of them wearing a hole in the battery, just a precaution against Murphy's law. Mick B.
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Thanks for the tips guys :-))
The battery box screws are an easy fix - I can just recess them into the sides a little so they won't rub (hadn't thought of that!)
Don't know what else to use for the stronger rudder linkages - any suggestions most welcome...
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stronger links wouldnt hurt i suppose but then some ppl like to overkill on strength just in case. i think if there are any strength issuses it will be flex in the dog leg
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Not done that much recently to the Yorkshireman as I've been very busy with work. >:-o
Have been looking at mounting the electrics and again need to draw on your expertise...
The action electronics power board has a plug on it to power the receiver.
So, I'm thinking I can just use one pwr switch to turn everything on/off.
However, when I turn on the radio transmitter, it takes a second or two before it 'connects' to the receiver.
So I wondered if it would be safer/wiser to switch the receiver seperately from all the power electronics?
What do you guys do? one switch for everything? or receiver switched seperately?
Also not been able to find anything much stronger than what is already fitted for the rudder linkage, so might just reinforce the dog legs and leave it at that.
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Mine have one switch for all and all the power off the main battery.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Sentinel/DSCF0045.jpg)
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However, when I turn on the radio transmitter, it takes a second or two before it 'connects' to the receiver.
So I wondered if it would be safer/wiser to switch the receiver seperately from all the power electronics?
What do you guys do? one switch for everything? or receiver switched seperately?
I only use one switch (as Dicky says) as this is normal. The R/X will search for the transmitter and takes around a few seconds from when it's switched on anyway.
cheers
ken
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Like the motor mounts, good idea :-))
Enjoyable build, looking forward to future installments.
Rgards, Tony.
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Thanks for the info, one switch it'll be then - will certainly make the wiring easier!
The 25amp cable has arrived (nice ebay bargin!) so I'll see if I can join it all together...
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Thanks Tony,
Really just developed from me wanting a secure box for the battery
(had a couple of accidents with batteries in the past!)
Once the box was in, where the motors went was obvious!
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I've used a 25amp double pole 3 way switch, on/off/on for my Shamrock, £2.99 from classic cars. One set of terminals used for a fly lead for battery charging in situ, saves a lot of disturbance.
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Hello All,
Been looking at the wiring of the pwr board, esc, etc this week.
Must admit, the hull looked big when I started, but it's filling up fast with 'stuff'.
The Action electronics all seem to work ok, but the main motors speed control seems a bit 'all or nothing'
With just a little forward (or reverse) throttle, the motors run quite fast.
Measured volts across one motor and the volts go from zero to 6volts with only a tiny movement of the stick.
More stick movement does then give a nice gradual increase in volts (and motor speed)
I'm using the Action P94 in mode 3
Is this initial 'jump' straight to 6 volts normal, or have I missed something in the setup?
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The P94 you had is no different from any other and does not require any setting up to adjust the starting speed/acceleration curve. If you have a computer radio then make sure that both channels used are set up to 100% servo movement and have no mixing, exponential or differential movement programmed in.
DM
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Ok, Thanks for that.
I'd read the instructions several times so didn't think there was anything else to set.
I've had a look at the radio (an Optic 6) and can't find anything to account for the problem.
However, there are lots of settings to play with - most of which I don't really understand!
Does anyone have an Optic 6 with a similar setup so we could compare settings?
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My head is hurting trying to make sense of all the radio's settings, so I think I'll put that one on the back burner for now!
The model had it's first 'sea trial' this evening (ok - I put it in the bath!)
Was very pleased at the complete lack of leaks considering the number of holes I've drilled in it!
One thing was immediately obvious - she's seriously underweight!
I thought it would be fine with the battery in it, but it'll need a lot of weight front and back.
I'll have to mark the waterline properly and then add some weight (back in the bath)
I guess lead is the obvious choice, but wondered what you guys would recommend?
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I Used fish tank gravel. cheap as chips it was! I was going to use the old fish tank gravel but the smell was a bit realistic %% you could use bottles of water :o
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Maybe you could make some of the ballast work for you - batteries I mean
Norseman
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I see why you suggest extra batteries...
I've marked the water-line and set sail in the bath again to get an idea of the ballast I need.
Sufice to say I'm a little suprised! :o
Balancing various bits of lead, big spanners, tins of grease etc in the bow & stern, it looks like I'm going to need something like 2.5kg in the bow and around 2kg in the stern!
This sounds like an awful lot of weight - does nearly 5kg of ballast sound normal for this tug?
(that's almost two more batteries!)
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You need an answer from someone who has done it before my friend - I haven't and it was just an idea I had because I think tugs like power :P
Regards Dave
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hey there Boughtonfields, looking at your last post on the York. I am also building the York, when I was adding ballast to the strain\rear of boat I also added what seem to be allot of ballast I am from the USA not to up on kg. but in US scale I add about 2.5 Ibis so I am guessing by your post I would say that is right, After all we have to get the Tug to set on the water line. Also we do not put a 1968 Buick inside on the boat; LOL.. we should be good with the wight need to make the tug site right in the water..
Keep the photo's coming along love to see her done.. :-)) one more thing TIP AS FEAR AS ballast go's if you can I put the ballast need it in the middle boat if you can. I only stay this because when I was looking at a earlier build on the York a man Had a video of it in the water, and when he made turns on the boat it look like it was almost in the water. Come to find out he added his ballast on the sides and also may have to much steerage on the rudders so be-carfull on that as well.. good luck keep the good work up there shipmate.. :-))
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I see why you suggest extra batteries...
This sounds like an awful lot of weight - does nearly 5kg of ballast sound normal for this tug?
(that's almost two more batteries!)
Hi there,
That is quite a nominal weight, so don't worry. Sometimes I have to use three 7amp/Hr batteries to get her down to the marks. These are quite heavy. :} The more 'stuff' you fit in the boat, the less batteries are needed. Smoke generators full of water can also be heavy.
ken
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Thanks for the help & encouragement guys!
Been a bit quiet on the build lately as it turns out I have the wrong motors :((
Thanks to Dave from Action Electronics, who has been a huge help, I've ordered the correct ones. :-))
Once here I'll get them in and the tug roughly ballasted and I'll then be able to make some more progress.
On the ballast front, I found some divers ballast at the boot fair.
It's lead balls approx 2mm dia - so I'll be able to get quite a bit of weight in a small space & keep it low down.
Might not get much more done this year as November is very busy then I'm off to Oz for 2 months!
All the same, I'll keep you posted...
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as your your first are you enjoying it? have you got the bug yet?
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Most definately enjoying it (so far!)
I guess I'm a little bit frightened of getting somthing wrong now, that I can't undo later.
So, I'm a bit obsessed with making sure the bit I'm on is absolutely right, before I move on.
I'm sure this slows the build down and it'll take me 10 times longer than it should.
But I shan't worry about speed and just take my time,
You know what they say - Can't rush a good job....