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Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: bobk on September 21, 2011, 12:13:32 PM

Title: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 21, 2011, 12:13:32 PM
HMS Amazon 1906 build

I have just bought a Deans HMS Amazon to keep my 1905 Skirmisher company.  It was good to have the opportunity to see inside the box at the Deans Open Day.  First part of this thread is to show what you get and my impressions of it before I start building.

IN THE BOX
(http://s2.postimage.org/963km97o/in_the_box.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/963km97o/)
Hull is nicely detailed and good quality.  Two trays of resin and die cast fittings, plus photo etched parts. Prop shaft, brass parts for masts etc, rods chains and rigging thread.  As you can see there is quite a lot of it even for one of their ‘simpler’ ship kits.  Very little flash on resin and metal parts, nothing that cannot be cleaned up easily.

An AO size detail plan with various views and colour photos.  Part references are indexed on the plan plus a two page reference index laid out to match the tray positions.  There is also a comprehensive check list and an 18 page detail instruction booklet that has many useful and essential tips on everything from recommended adhesives, techniques, to scale speed and wind force tables, plus a sheet on recommended signal flags for this class of vessel.  Reading it all carefully before opening anything – nothing I don’t feel confident making up.

Two sheets of vacuum formings for boats and funnels etc.  Four plastic sheets of deck and superstructure parts, clearly printed in colour.  Various lengths of wood for deck mounting etc.

At a shade over two hundred Pounds there is a lot in this box.  It looks an excellent job which I would say good value for what you get included.  No doubt lots of feedback over the years has improved it further and fine tuned the instructions.

NOT IN THE BOX, but bought at the same time.
(http://s2.postimage.org/99bc8js4/running_gear.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/99bc8js4/)

Running gear, battery, motors, two prop shafts as I intend building it to the original twin shaft spec rather than the single prop supplied. Motors, props, ESC, and Rx unit to work with my Planet T5.

Considering the above came to half the price of the kit, it further indicates the value of the kit.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: thelegos on September 21, 2011, 12:47:51 PM
Hi Bob, looks like a nice project so keep us up to date. We chatted at Ron's place and I'm not surprised you left with a little something to keep you busy over the winter so keep us informed during the build and I look forward to seeing it on the water at next years open day  :-))
Roger
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 21, 2011, 02:33:53 PM
Hi Roger.  It was nice to meet you.  Whilst there I also had a look inside their HMS Hannibal, but decided that the vast number of parts - especially the ten big sheets of etchings - was one that was perhaps beyond my limits at this time.
Since Peterborough I have been reworking the rigging on my Skirmisher I brought up with me.  I am gradually rebuilding it.
( http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32556.msg323860 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32556.msg323860) )

I aim to return next September, with Amazon & Skirmisher.

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 21, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
Hi Bobk,
Just started the same kit myself, although it is an old production one which I obtained elsewhere at a keen price, am interested in what size props, shafts and motors you have planned. Wish you well with the kit for the future.
David
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 21, 2011, 09:26:12 PM
David:  The two motors are tiny Raboesch type 108-22 (3-12V).  Deans 2mm prop shafts with watertight roller bearings.  Props are Raboesch 20 mm M2 L&R handed (162-01 and 02).  Deans micro-ESC 10A, to run both as with props close together on a sleek 900 mm ship of only 89 mm beam a mixer would give little advantage. 
I was told that the original ship had three props per shaft to attain its 33 knots, but I drew the line at trying to mount six props.  :D
At present the battery is a 1600 mAh Overlander.  Depending on how ballasting goes I might be able to fit two to extend running time. 
The chunky lead acid battery in my Skirmisher runs for at least three hours.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 22, 2011, 05:15:15 PM
Hi thanks for the info, regards the three props, I have heard of a ship with such setup, but I do not believe it this class. According to "Destroyers of the Royal Navy 1893-1981" by Maurice Cocker, the early built boats of this class where twin screw but the latter ones where three screw, I believe he was referring to shafts not actual screws per shaft. They where faster than the earlier boats because they where oil fired not coal and there for could maintain their top speed, as the earlier boats doubled the number of stokers on board to obtain a fast contract speed when on builders trials, but subsequently unable to maintain it due to limited number of stokers and human endurance at shovelling large amounts of coal. This class did have small fast running props due to the turbines not being fitted with reduction gearing. Have found a good colour illustration of Mohawk in "British Destroyers 1892-1918" in Osprey Publishing's of her in what looks like North Sea Green colour, plus she appears to be twin screw.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: colin-d on September 22, 2011, 06:12:28 PM
hope you enjoy your Build Bob..... and it was nice having a chat during the Deans Opendays... and I'm glad your enjoying my Inflexible Build..
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Edward Pinniger on September 22, 2011, 06:17:35 PM
Looks like a very interesting project, I'll definitely be following this thread!
 Is there any chance you could post a higher resolution photo (or a few photos) of the kit contents? I'm quite interested to see what the kit is like, it's one on my personal "wish list" for when/if I get a bit more spare cash! I'd definitely like to build an early destroyer or TBD myself one day; I scratchbuilt HMS Velox in 1/96 scale a few years ago, but it is a waterline model so there's no hope of converting it to R/C.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 22, 2011, 07:23:52 PM
Edward:  If you are based in Berkshire, hopefully not too far from Windsor, you are welcome to come round and see the kit contents. If so send me a PM.  I will be posting more detailed photos as the build progresses.

David:  Lots of sources of info on this class, with some conflicting, even to dates.  Built by seven shipyards over three years to a procurement spec rather than plans, not surprising so many variations.  The proc spec did require oil fired, preferably turbines, and 33 knots, but what actually got fitted to each, and what got changed later is not always easy to tie down.  I have various sources stating twin shafts for the class but you may be right that triple shafts were tried on the later ships.  I have an early photo of Mohawk in black, and a later one in grey.

Colin:  Nice to meet you, thanks for the tips you gave me.  I still say your Inflexible build should be in the Masterclass section  O0
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 22, 2011, 09:49:36 PM

(http://s2.postimage.org/sv68nzfo/Scan0002.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sv68nzfo/)

This the pic of Mohawk I was refering to she is not strictly speaking in north sea green, but it is a grey green colour. The shows her with triple screws so she must have been one of the latter built one. I have not yet decided on my models colour scheme yet, but most probaly the one in the pic as it seems quite simple, probaly go to white ensign for the paint. But was Amazon triple shaft or twin, one clue could be her armament as the latter built ones had 2 x 4" guns.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 22, 2011, 11:51:22 PM
Very substantial differences between the 12 Tribal ships.  3 to 6 funnels, turtleback to flat fo'c's'les.  Deans do separate Amazon & Mohawk kits, which look quite individual.  Wikipedia confirms 2 or 3 shafts, but all oil fuelled.  Amazon was twin shaft.  
Gives the modeller plenty of choice to customise, even to Zubian which was the undamaged ends of Zulu & Nubian welded together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_class_destroyer_(1905) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_class_destroyer_(1905)).
Here is Amazon in in early black for instance . . .  Later she was grey
(http://s1.postimage.org/e8ur4hdw/amazon_black.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/e8ur4hdw/)
Fascinating ships that pushed the limits of then-technology
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 23, 2011, 11:19:16 AM
Yes they where great leap forward in design for the RN, from coal fired recip to oil fired turbines, makes you wonder if the Naval Ship Constructor used these boats as a trial for bigger things to come, the old victotrian home fleet colours look appealing I must say. I shall watch your build with interest, myself I am going with twin shafts, the motors I am thinking of using came out of one those ready to run russian destroyers that were selling for £30, they scream at8/9v, Shipmate60 gave them to me to try. Butmore of interest how are you arranging the rudder, myself I thought of using similiar system to the early TBD, but on Deans drawings there are no real clear indication where the wire surfaces on deck aft.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 23, 2011, 02:28:11 PM
All is explained in detail in the instruction booklet, with diagrams and photos.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: victorian on September 23, 2011, 05:13:20 PM
Wow you don't hang around Bob! When i bought the 'Hannibal' (which after much re-working became 'Mars') I didn't even open the box for several years lest the wife found out what I'd done.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 24, 2011, 04:08:33 PM
Hi Bobk,
Afraid my box is typical of Deans of yester year, there is only one general layout plan with no real detail and the box plans go on about fitting a dummy rudder and a propierty rdder with a single screw.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 24, 2011, 07:23:29 PM
You said that yours was an old one, "obtained elsewhere at a keen price."  Sounds like you have essential paperwork and maybe other stuff missing.  Suggest you contact Deans.  They are very helpful.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 26, 2011, 07:50:11 PM
Yeah well I think I will use modellers licence and build the steering gear as on an earlier vessel which I have ships plans for. I bought some small copper bore tube to run the steering wire through onto the deck aft to operate the rudder tiller today. The steering servo I will fit near the motors, somewhere where I can get my big fat fingers easily to adjust the wire, although I will put some wire spring tensioners in to keep it taut. Reference the three props on one shaft you mentioned, it was the Velox, how long she ran on that system I do not know.
I shall be watching with interest your build thread, as it is my first with a Deans kit and I can always learn from others, which is why I like this site so much. So happy building and I look to seeing your pics.
Best regards,
David.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on September 27, 2011, 12:49:43 PM
(http://s2.postimage.org/2udnc8vtw/Scan0004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2udnc8vtw/)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on September 30, 2011, 08:27:29 PM
OK, build underway.  As said before it pays to thoroughly keep re-reading the illustrated instructions as each stage defines so much for the next steps - like making sure your running gear will be accessible under the defined deck openings, no so easy as I am fitting twin shafts.

Trimming the fibreglass edges of the hull to the moulded plating edges, using a steel rule and fine line marker.  It did say use a Surform, but hey, with care it did the job well and kept a straight edge.  I had to use my Rotacraft with small grinding block to trim the fo'c'sle to main deck curve, then finish off with fine wet 'n dry and a block.
(http://s4.postimage.org/cr3xabxg/A_Build_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/cr3xabxg/)

Next up was fitting the shafts.  Not so easy gauging exactly where the drill holes were to go, but opening out to an ellipse with a round rifler file was a doddle.  Note use of ubiquitous Blue Tack to hold in place for the epoxy.  I used a patch of fine cotten on the inside, then the next day built up the shape with UHU Plus Acrylit filler.
(http://s4.postimage.org/crw1f8bo/A_Build_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/crw1f8bo/)

Deciding to leave he rest of the running gear until I can at least dry-fit the decks, I used a strip of the plastic sheet from the kit as a guide to position the wood mountings.  Only first part shown here, as I am waiting for epoxy to dry before adding the stern parts and cross beams.
(http://s4.postimage.org/ctem5omc/A_Build_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ctem5omc/)

Purists will say I should have kept clothes peg colours separate for each part, but heck this is my first ever kit build.   :}

PS:  'Dodes' : No need to have the rudder linkage showing, plenty of room inside plus a deck opening above.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dave13 on October 01, 2011, 11:19:12 AM
Nice to see you have made a start Bob!! :-) What size props did you use?? as I was thinking about building the Mohawk version as I like the look of the triple shafts. (or I like a challenge trying to squeeze three motors and shafts in the hull) lol  %%
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 01, 2011, 02:30:17 PM
A bit more done each evening Dave, but it's started.  Keep stopping for epoxy or filler to set is a pain.
Props are 20mm Raboesch, L&R handed.  They spin on for ages with ball bearing shafts.  If I get the tiny Raboesch 108-22 motors (3-12V) wired right the props should turn inwards at the top.  Motors look like the size of the ones I used for my scratch slot cars, very small.  Hull is only 89mm beam, external.  I believe this motor is also used on some of the smaller bow thrusters, so capable of moving water well.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on October 05, 2011, 02:29:13 PM
Hi Bob,
I was interested to see the hull, it looks like Dean has upgraded this kit with a decent looking hull, as my hull is the expanded plastic hull with no detail on it, which means more work for me.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 06, 2011, 06:46:05 PM
Some more progress.  I am now installing the running gear and electrics inside, before fitting the decks so I can check fit and access as I go.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild4.jpg)
Note the Raboesch motors on an aluminium mounting bracket, couplings, servo and rudder arm.  I used lengths of Plastruct tubing to align the shafts before fitting the motors frame.  Rudder and servo linkage is all under the main deck, slightly enlarging the access panel in the deck.  Another defined access panel is over the couplings motors and ESC (ESC not fitted yet), and a third over the battery area.

As the rudder is fairly small and extends below the keel I decided to make it out of brass rather than the laminated plastic version with the kit.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild5.jpg)
This is the real rudder, the dummy "false rudder" will be glued to the stern with its bottom end in the water.  Prop shaft support frames still to be added.

PS:  I have finally cracked the Photobucket [IMG] linking.  Previously any photo I uploaded, however small and compact kept being reduced to thumbnails on this forum.   O0


Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: dreadnought72 on October 06, 2011, 07:02:15 PM
Hi Bob,

You mention that you're going to run both motors off one ESC.

Is it worth considering a mixer (or, more brutally, a cut-off switch to the inner shaft) when the rudder's at full swing?

Might help with turns.

Andy
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 06, 2011, 07:14:32 PM
Hi Andy,
I did try a small mixer PCB on my larger Skirmisher, without much success, so reverted to a Y lead instead.  If I can find a good one that works at low throttle (instead of flipping ahead/astern whenever the rudder moves) I will try it on that first. Recommendations ?
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on October 06, 2011, 09:05:58 PM
Bob,
For twin shaft single rudder try the props turning the other way.
Inwards at the top, this will help with your steering.

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 06, 2011, 09:24:02 PM
Thanks Bob, I will do that.    After building the rudder, scale to plan, I am very tempted to replace it with a much larger one to help maneoverability.  Longer, and maybe shorter so as not to be as vulnerable when handling.
Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on October 06, 2011, 09:27:47 PM
Some useful information in this thread.

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32709.0#bot

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on October 11, 2011, 05:28:33 PM
Hi Dave13,
With reference to Mohawke's 3 shafts and motors. At the moment I am building a very old Deans Amazon kit, so old it has a vacum formed hull. Get to the chase I have fitted  2 X shafts and am fitting a original rudder operated by wires to a tiller on deck, when researching further in Janes it appears Amazon was 3 X shaft as well. I am fitting 3 X 380 type motors from MMB and the middle shaft comes out astern of the other two, this leaves enough room to fit the third motor stern of the outboard motors between the shafts. By the way during WW1 Mohawke had a fore deck converted into a standard flat deck like Amazon if that is any interest to you. With 25mm props I think my project will fly.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dave13 on October 11, 2011, 08:57:26 PM
Hi Dodes
Yeah I was thinking about using 3 x 25 mm props with 3 x 380 type motors and rubber couplings and the scale rudder. Are you planing to do a build log ? As I for one would love to see the way you are doing the rudder operating system with wires and tiller.  :-) I have the Jane's WW1 warship book and it appears that the Mohawk was fitter with 5 x 12 pounders and 2 torpedo tubes and I did notice the flat for deck! :-)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on October 12, 2011, 11:53:54 AM
Hi Dave13,
Yes I intend fitting what you have already mentioned, the rudder I cannot get a scale drawing anywhere, so I have used modellers license to make one, When I have cleaned it up I will upload a pic for you to see. the tiller on deck I thought could be controlled by some small tubing coming just out of the deck, but leading forward both sides under the deck, with wire or nylon cord threadled through then connected to spring on the rotor arms of the steering servo. This way I do not need a service hatch in the aft deck. Also Shipmate60 came up with a good idea of having two speed controlers, the centre shaft on one to poodle around a pond to save battery power, then when you feel like a bit of speed switch on the outer shafts. If I put up any pics I think I will setup my own thread, as this one is Bobs.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 13, 2011, 03:27:07 PM
Dodes:  “I think I will setup my own thread, as this one is Bobs.”
Thank you.  I was trying to create a build log for my Amazon, for anyone thinking about building this or similar Deans kit. 
So far my thread keeps being diverted into controversies, however good luck with your build. I look forward to seeing some photo's.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 13, 2011, 03:57:09 PM
To reset my baseline:
The very detailed illustrated instructions and scale plan with this Deans kit are excellent, even down to a paint guide with Humbrol colour numbers. 
The fiberglass hull is finely detailed.  Almost 200 fittings supplied.
In both books previously quoted from, and the full library editions of Jane’s Fighting Ships 1908 & 1914, all Tribals were oil fired.  Ungeared turbines dictated small propellers.  Variations amongst this class were so extensive that the full editions of Jane’s have separate sections on each ship.
Amazon had twin shafts.

Build continues:
I have taken advice given and am fitting an Action Electronics P94 Lite to provide both ESC and mixer functions.  It arrived the day after ordering. 
Internals so far . . .
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild7.jpg)

Bath test ballasting showed a maximum of 700 gm to waterline with motors shafts and rudder fitted, but this figure has to include superstructure and fittings.  Weight and space being fairly critical a 285 gm  6V  2700mAH Nicad battery was chosen.  P94 Lite is 130 gm. 

Aft compartments fitted with watertight bulkheads to limit prop turbulence ingress when going full astern.
Prop support stanchions fabricated in ABS, as the kit came with a single shaft for easy build.
There were clearly defined bilge keel positions along the hull, so I fitted them to help roll stability.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild8.jpg)
I came up with an idea to mount the receiver high in the fo’c’s’le for best reception and to keep it away from other electrics.  A simple aluminium strip assembly that can be slid in under from the second funnel access panel and locked in place by the battery.  Aerial goes up into the superstructure.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild6.jpg)
I have fitted a slightly larger than scale rudder, which I believe will be necessary at this scale.  The kit’s upper false rudder is fixed, the part underwater steers, thus no unsightly external tillers or wires to snag on quarterdeck fittings and railings.  Plenty of room for rudder servo with ball joint linkage inside the hull, under a removable access hatch

So far the running equipment has cost more than the kit, and a significant part of the work involved.  However, I have learned from my cruiser rebuild experience.  When another ha’porth of tar is needed . . .   %)

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on October 13, 2011, 09:13:48 PM
Hi Bobk,
Looking good, like the hull detail, glad you have researched the number of shafts, I was going for a third but your work has saved me a lot of bother, still debating getting a new fibre glass hull and starting again. One thing Deans have always produced well is their hulls. I look forward with interest to seeing the rest of your build, this period of ship build has always fascinated me most.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 13, 2011, 09:54:17 PM
Hi Dodes.  Thank you.  I hope you can see better how Deans adapted the very small transom mounted rudder into something that sails well as a model, whilst still looking realistic.  Personally, I have made it larger than their plan and parts, but only the fish will notice.
I have found them to be very helpful, so worth giving them a call about a hull and stuff you may have missing.
I have seen Mohawk made up in their showroom and it does look nice.

Below is a completed Amazon i photographed at their Open Day.  Maybe in 2 or 3 months mine will look like that  %)
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/AmazonatDeans2a.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: farrow on October 15, 2011, 09:39:56 AM
Hi Bobk,
Yes your boat will turn well with your rudder, twin screws with one rudder have always been a pain with real ships, as the rudder has no effect until you get a reasonable flow on it, that is probably why ships where fitted with outboard turning screws. On I was on the St Margaret's and she had to be manoeuvred on the screws when berthing, starting to turn from rest or a tight turn when moving slow. I am interested in the method I have stated, as my model will if finished reasonable be on display at times and I fancy the challenge of doing it that way. I suspect I will have to make a clip on piece for when it goes in the pond. Ref your remark about 3 props on one shaft it was the Eden, six props on two shafts, I wonder how efficient it was. I like your layout for the motors etc in your model, it looks very clean and efficient, smart. Looking forward to seeing more of your posts, great work.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 15, 2011, 11:28:01 PM
Digressing slightly, multiple (or tandem) props on a single shaft were not unusual in the early days of Parsons ungeared steam turbines, the first being the Turbinia of 1894 which caused such a stir at the Fleet Review of 1898.  Three shafts, each with three 18 inch props - nine in all.  The ship is on display at the Discovery Museum in Newcastle.  Parsons turbines powered destroyers HMS Viper & Cobra of 1899, plus all the Tribal 'F' Class destroyers - the fastest ships of their day.  Parsons later introduction of the geared turbine allowed slower shaft RPM and thus larger propellers.  eg:  HMS Dreadnaught.

Getting back to HMS Amazon, I am currently on hold needing three servo extension cables and some 2mm2 flexible wire.  Frustrating, I will have to wait till Wednesday to pop out and get some.  When the electrics are commissioned and tested I can start on the decks.  I will have mixer control of the props, plus a large rudder to deflect prop flow at slow speeds.

PS:  With the small Raboesch motors you could turn them through 90 degrees on the shaft axis to get a third in, but with the longer centre shaft you would be restricted to a scale size rudder and some tricky linkages when moving the pivot tube aft.  The extra motor plus shaft and ESC could be challenging in terms of weight.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 19, 2011, 05:08:15 PM
Moment of truth !

All electrics completed, checked, checked, and treble checked.  Planet RM6 receiver powered up on its own, transmitter switched on, press Rx microswitch, binding successful.  Easy.
Deep breath.  Connect power to rest of ship.   {:-{

My first use of an Action P94, combined twin ESC’s with mixer.  Set up in Mode 4.  ie: proportional control of motor speeds depending on rudder position.  On 50% inboard prop just stops at full rudder.  I was impressed with Action’s ‘Autoset’ system.  Switch on TX, switch on Rx.  Wait 5 seconds until relays click.  Set up done.  No fiddling with individual ESC buttons one side at a time.  Neat  :-))

Ship carrier for my HMS Skirmisher has sprouted additional foam blocks for this destroyer so I can carry either to the lake using the same carrier.  The very slender beam is apparent in picture.  Also necessary for commissioning as prop edges are on the keel line with enlarged rudder protruding below.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild9.jpg)

Next step:  Finish fitting decks with access cover hatches and it could be a trip to Black Park this Sunday   :}
Any ideas on how I can get a small quantity of lead flashing, about 300gm?  Wickes do it but at over a hundred quid per M2
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: pugwash on October 19, 2011, 05:18:50 PM
Bob just one comment which may be of assistance - I used some foam which looks very similar to the green foam you have used.
just a 1/4 inch thick strip lining the wooden stand - left the boat in it for about 5 weeks whilst working on it and when I went to lift
it out I had chunks of foam sticking to the hull and some paint sticking to the foam
had a hell of a job getting the foam off the paint without causing further damage..

Geoff
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 19, 2011, 05:28:03 PM
Geoff:  Good point about foam.  This is from a well used kneeling mat, quite hard and very dense grain. Cuts reasonably well and has not caused any problems with my cruiser over four months.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: John R Haynes on October 20, 2011, 09:53:10 AM
The velox hull and parts  for Ron Deans kit came from me and with the mention of  Turbinia on this thread  I thought I would say that I am building this for a client at 1/48 scale . Fleetscale are presently  grping the plug and this hull will be available from them in due course . Turbinia Metcalf Plans are available from Nexas plans service
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 20, 2011, 02:46:12 PM
John:  If this hull is from your work then I am honoured, and will do my best to do it justice in my build.  Your models are awesome.
Turbinia was such a huge milestone in shipbuilding development, its turbine driven nine propellers gave it unprecedented speed.
I understand that Viper and Cobra of 1899 were also tandem props per shaft.  Do you have further information as to whether early Tribals such as Amazon were also tandam props?  Even the Full Jane's of 1906 and 1914 do not quote this.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: John R Haynes on October 20, 2011, 07:31:35 PM
According to Manning [ book ] the Tribals had three screws . This I believe were three shafts and three screws
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: brianB6 on October 20, 2011, 10:07:04 PM
What about fishing sinkers for weight>.  Available in several sizes and shapes
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: thelegos on October 20, 2011, 11:31:49 PM
Hi Bob,
I've been watching your build and it's coming on a treat. The topic regarding these particular ships is causing much interest as well, Turbinia is something I was marvelling at a couple of weeks ago whilst looking at Martin's pictures from the Science Museum ship gallery, an amazing ship as you say but not modelled as much as I would have expected; perhaps there are technicalities that make it a difficult subject.

Roger


Link added. Admin - Howes have these back in stock @£ 39.99 + P@P

http://www.howesmodels.co.uk/RadioControl/viewProducts.php?SubCatID=114
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 21, 2011, 07:11:31 PM
Thanks Roger:  I am enjoying this build.
" [Turbinia] . . . but not modelled as much as I would have expected; perhaps there are technicalities that make it a difficult subject."
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/turbinia.jpg)
Mounting nine props on three shafts would certainly be a challenge !

Back to the Amazon, decks and access panels in progress.  Pics to follow shortly.
Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 21, 2011, 09:28:23 PM
HMS Amazon  -  Decks

Prior to installing the electrics I had cut the main and f’o’c’s’le decks to size, gradually shaving the profile to fit the hull.  I have enlarged the access panel holes both wider and longer to suit my own internals, making sure I could access each of the parts inside whilst keeping the joints consistent with superstructure parts to be fitted later.  
Remainder of under-deck beams fitted, avoiding cut outs.
Each aperture was then given an internal surrounding flange in 2 mm thick plastic strip, enough to support the panels cut out.
 (http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild11.jpg)
The f’o’c’s’le cut out is for the Rx aerial to go up inside the gun platform deck.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild10.jpg)
Cover panels fitted and temporarily sellotaped in to keep dust out.  Decks glued in place.  When dry hull edges were filed flush to deck, and some filler applied in joints where required.  
Note the ship carrier frame can be used as a stand alone for transport, or fitted into my Skirmisher carrier as in previous post.

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 23, 2011, 01:34:16 PM
The Launch
Battery charged, hatches battened down, and off to Black Park for the official launch.  Sunny.  Wind 13 Kt.
Trusty luggage straps with stainless buckles avoids having to bend.  The weight of the buckles drops straps clear of props and rudder.  Also makes it easier to position straps for lifting out.
 (http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild12a.jpg)

Sea Trials
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild13.jpg)
Only 100 gm of lead in the bow was needed to trim ballast line, allowing for later superstructure and fittings.  I was able to get some lead flashing from a scrap metal company, gratis.  HMS Amazon proved to be an excellent sea boat, exemplary stability with very little list on tight turns.  The angled bilge keels hopefully helped. 
The Action P94 ESC’s/mixer unit had it turning on a sixpence.
Perhaps I may reduce the rudder size, I probably oversized it more than necessary.  The Raboesch motors, whilst giving a realistic turn of speed could possibly be upsized a little for something with more torque and lower RPM. 
Overall a successful day out.  Subject to a couple of improvements above this should be an superb ship to sail. 

We now move on to the fitting out basin.   :}
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dave13 on October 24, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Wow Bob you don't hang about  :-) She looks good on the water thow :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 24, 2011, 07:49:02 PM
Thank you Dave, she does handle nicely.  Only been about 5 weeks on the stocks, a little done most evenings.   %)
You were going for 25 mm props on your Mohawk.  I think I may try upsizing from 20 to 25 mm myself as this may be easier than resizing motors on 2 mm shafts.  Worth a try as these motors go at high RPM, as you can see from the wake. Triple motors and shafts may be possible but weight is critical.  In which case suggest turning motors 900 to fit closer, moving shafts + battery forward, trading the 100 gm bow ballast for the extra motor ESC and shaft.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 26, 2011, 03:52:50 PM
Fore Deck
Started work on the fore deck, a fairly straightforward fabrication from the printed plastic sheets, but instead of just "scribing" the non slip pattern I thought I'd go 3D using thin plasticard.  Getting the mitre joints right was interesting, however 62 pieces later . . .    Sand down, then a brush 'wash' with diluted PVA to fill joints.  Two similar areas on the main deck to do - now I have started.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild14.jpg)

Performance
Following first 'sea trials' on Sunday I decided to change the props from 20 to 25 mm rather than mess about with the tiny high RPM motors now they are installed.  Ordered online from Deans early on Monday, fitted today.  Fast response.
Reducing rudder profile a bit, had to anyway as the larger props touched it on full helm. 
All part of the learning curve.  My first kit build in four decades   %) 
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on October 30, 2011, 01:27:50 PM
Changing to larger 25 mm props made such a difference today.  Almost no prop turbulence behind, higher top speed with less wake, and better low speed control.  Oddly less noise too.  Maybe a flywheel effect of the larger props plus limiting the high motor RPM.
Reducing the rudder profile had no detrimental effects.

Thank you to Mayhemers on my 'Hidden Catch' thread, I will be fitting small neodymium magnets under the flush mounted access covers. 
Report & photos to follow. 

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild15.jpg)
Superstructure building underway.  Very little of it on this model, mostly in 4 laminated thicknesses of plastic sheet, with stepped joints at access panel breaks.  Chart House, and glazing. Main deck housing. Joints filled and sanded.

I fancy adding planking to appropriate deck areas, after the main painting and before adding fittings detail to those areas.
I will have to research this aspect, never having done it before.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on November 03, 2011, 07:42:54 AM
Magnetic Catches
I wanted to secure the deck access hatches but without visible fixings.  Neodymium magnetic catches were suggested, 6 dia x 3.  When they arrived a pair appeared almost strong enough to attach the boat to the ceiling, so after trying plastic shims I eventually used a small strip of steel cut flush into the hatch base and a single magnet in a ply strip.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild16.jpg)
This seems to hold the hatch down well without needing force to lift the hatch edge.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bikerdude666 on November 03, 2011, 08:23:18 PM
where did you get the magnets?
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on November 04, 2011, 08:34:36 AM
From E Bay.  Set of 50 for £4.99.  Arrived promptly.  They are still listed.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Neodymium-Disc-Magnets-6mm-dia-x-3mm-N42-GRADE-/360406449171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53e9e5fc13 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Neodymium-Disc-Magnets-6mm-dia-x-3mm-N42-GRADE-/360406449171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53e9e5fc13)
Note:  A pair of these has a seperation force of 1.2Kg, hence the need to either separate with 2 mm plastic 'shim' or just use one and a thin steel strip.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on November 17, 2011, 10:44:52 PM
Back in the dockyard after a two week holiday, I have now secured all three access hatches with magnetic fasteners.  Below is detail of the steering compartment with magnet in square ply bar and underside of hatch showing steel strip.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild17.jpg)
Detailing of the decks will be next, having decided to individually plank the relevant areas, being a glutton for punishment.  Never having done this before I am opting to build the planked areas on very thin Plasticard so I can fit them after primary painting.  Planks are 2 mm wide x 0.5 thick, to be separated by black sewing thread to simulate caulking. I have been advised to 'stain' the maple with tea after assembly, then satin varnish before adding painted deck fittings.  Before this however I need to complete the remaining nonslip pattern areas. 
I am also upgrading the excellent etched railings supplied with the kit for individual Deans etched stanchions and soldered wire as these on my Skirmisher look better.  No hurry, just doing a bit each evening  :}
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bikerdude666 on November 18, 2011, 09:49:08 AM
From E Bay.  Set of 50 for £4.99.  Arrived promptly.  They are still listed.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Neodymium-Disc-Magnets-6mm-dia-x-3mm-N42-GRADE-/360406449171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53e9e5fc13 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-Neodymium-Disc-Magnets-6mm-dia-x-3mm-N42-GRADE-/360406449171?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item53e9e5fc13)
Note:  A pair of these has a seperation force of 1.2Kg, hence the need to either separate with 2 mm plastic 'shim' or just use one and a thin steel strip.

Thanks that's another on the watch list waiting for pay day!
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on November 28, 2011, 03:17:21 PM
Deck detailing is still underway, there is a lot of it, but photos don't show white on white detail well.  The scuppers are in, 4mm from the edge, ready to drill over 200 tiny holes for the new individual brass etched stanchions.  These are in three and two hole styles, the later for areas where the originals would fold away when cleared for action.  A lot of micro soldering for brass wire rails will be fun.
Two more areas of anti slip deck patterning is in progress.  This time I have used a much thinner plasticard than in photo at top of page.

My first venture into Lithoplate detail, I do like making things difficult by going beyond what the kit specifies.  After much experimenting I found that using the tip of a biro with a mouse mat under the litho seemed to create the best raised rivets effect.  This will be used on deck and superstructure detail.  The hull is well detailed and I have to avoid extra weight.

2mm x 0.5mm deck planking will be applied to pre-cut 10 thou plasticard with sewing thread between as caulking.  I need to keep these off the boat for as long as possible to avoid glue or paint mishaps.  I am not confident enough to mask, and don't have an airbrush yet.  Maybe when I have sprayed the initial base coat things may photograph better.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on November 28, 2011, 07:45:52 PM
Hello Bob. New to this forum, i will follow yout build very close. as a matter of fact this is the reason why i joined :-)  You may ask why ? Simply because I have both the Amazon and the Mohawk
sitting on the shelf build some 14 years ago by my two sons ( at this time they were 12 and 14 but the bulds turned out fine ) The two models are build as "standard" Deans kits.
But as time has passed by. materials has turned into making very small details easy. So now they both are to have a total makeover ( sons turned 26 and 28 :-) )

your build is looking very nice, so courious for the next step :-) :-)

Best regards
Harley
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on November 28, 2011, 09:23:12 PM
Welcome to the forum Harley.  Great to hear you have both the Amazon & Mohawk, and from 14 years ago.  Deans have (c)1984 on the plans.  I am recently back into modelling after 4 decades so much of this is a learning curve for me, but challenges can be fun.  I am not digressing from the kit intent too far, just enjoying the detailing.  Nice thing with this kit without complex superstructure is that it can either be built as a single shaft 'beginners' level, or you can take it further as you wish.  I will try to get more photos up soon but 'all white' small detail is not photographing well.  My build blog is a record of my experiences so far.
I would love to see pictures of your two Tribals, if you wouldn't mind.   O0
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on November 29, 2011, 12:07:43 PM
Hello Bob.
No problem. the pictures are maybe not that good but as i can see these are the only two static pics i have of them  {:-{
but you ca see them on the water here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/harleypoulsen?feature=mhee (http://www.youtube.com/user/harleypoulsen?feature=mhee)

The two small beautyes have been tested really hard. as they have been sailing every summer at least twice a week
since they were build ;-)  They are doing great. even in "rough" conditions. And as you say, they are brilliant models. of wich every
one can get as much as he want.  My Sons now wants to take the to the "next level" you might eventually have a look at our builds
on our website Bob.  http://www.wix.com/warshipmodelsdk/warshipmodelsdk (http://www.wix.com/warshipmodelsdk/warshipmodelsdk)

As you can se we are "into the Royal Navys great ships"   :} :}

best regards Harley
(http://s12.postimage.org/pzyd60x55/IMAG0330.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pzyd60x55/)

(http://s12.postimage.org/mudrfteix/IMAG0327.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mudrfteix/)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on November 29, 2011, 02:58:15 PM
Thank you Harley.  Best wishes for your twin rebuilds !

Scuppers all in, ventilator bases, two new areas of deck anti slip (about 120 pieces), and dummy steering.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild18a.jpg)
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild19-1.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 07, 2011, 02:24:49 PM
Some more progress:
Anti slip deck pattern in 20 thou plasticard, maybe 10 thou would have been better.  Litho riveted plating added to foredeck, deck break and parts of superstructure. 
Initial shaping of vac-formed funnels, and ventilators with brass wire cross fitted at front openings.  Both these are being left as unattached sub assemblies at this time for ease detailing and painting.  Lots more to do on these of course, bases, funnel caps with internal gauze and external brass wire topping cage, steam pipes, funnel stay fittings etc.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild20.jpg)
I bought my wife a new flour sieve, which means I can commandeer her old one for funnel fine mesh stainless steel gauze !
Note 'recessed' areas intended for deck planking, to be made up on 10 thou card as sub assemblies for fitting after main painting.
Hopefully edges of access panels will all but visually dissapear nearer completion.  That's the intent.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild21.jpg)

The big news is that I now have airbrushes and a compressor. Many thanks to all who gave such helpful advice on my recent "Brush vs Spray Can vs Airbrush " question thread.  Never having used one before, I am now breaking down the build sequence to best utilise my new toy !
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on December 07, 2011, 05:58:56 PM
Well. Does this look nice or does it look nice. Bob you are doing a very fine job
on this magnifficent little ship - as a matter of fact it really was´nt that small at all -
but as model it is  O0 :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 07, 2011, 07:06:57 PM
Thank you Harley:   As a model it is only 89 mm beam, although 900 mm long, to give a sense of scale to the pictures above, but you know that having two Tribals yourself.  I am enjoying myself, each step is a new challenge.  Keeps me away from the endless TV murder mysteries.   ;)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on December 08, 2011, 05:34:52 PM
Same here..   I am working at least 2 hours every day in my workshop, when getting home from work. Sometimes - very often indeed - it turnes out to be the whole evening :-) but as my wife says wisely.. Well at least i know where you are..
I have just started out producing etched brass items for my dreadnought. I have been experimenting the most of the summer, to learn how to do this.  As a matter of fact it is not that hard to learn and to do.
And it gives you the possibillaty to do parts for specialle YOUR model, wich cannot be purchased other places..  :-)

Have a look ;-)


(http://s11.postimage.org/vqzw1k09r/PC070001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vqzw1k09r/)



Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: AndrewB on December 08, 2011, 06:04:40 PM
Nice work on the etching, that is a thing i would like to learn to do

Cheers Andrew
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 08, 2011, 07:10:23 PM
That looks really super Harley:  Perhaps you might consider writing a 'how to' thread on producing brass etchings?  I am sure many here would be very interested, in fact I can think of several applications I could use custom etchings for.
PS: Dreadnaught and two Tribal Class.  Sounds like you too are fascinated with warships of this era?
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on December 08, 2011, 08:38:28 PM

What a lovely idea.   Could you do show us  'How to'  please    :-))


ken

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on December 08, 2011, 08:52:06 PM

Great idea to do a show and tell  :-)) :-)) :-)) O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: colin-d on December 09, 2011, 07:58:36 AM
there is a thread on the Deansmarine website that goes into a little bit of Brass Etching

http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=169.0 (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=169.0)

i do my own drawings and then for a postcard size of Brass pay about 8 pounds to get it Etched
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on December 10, 2011, 09:50:05 AM
That looks really super Harley:  Perhaps you might consider writing a 'how to' thread on producing brass etchings?  I am sure many here would be very interested, in fact I can think of several applications I could use custom etchings for.
PS: Dreadnaught and two Tribal Class.  Sounds like you too are fascinated with warships of this era?

Hi Bob.
Sure, will do. next time i am doing something for my dreadnought - might be this week - i will do a step by step explanation. On how you can do a lot of
these parts in your kitchen..   Ofcause some very finedetailed parts will require a etchingdevice. I have such a device, as i have a lot to build, and also
supporting my klubmates. But a lot is done on a very simple way wich you all could do.

Two tribals and a Dreadnought. Yes I really do like teh ships of this era. Also the ones build between the WW. I have the next one coming up already. And am finishing
the plug for my fiberglass mould of the hull for HMS Renown as present 1943.  ( as a matter of fact i have the plans for about 25 british warships from the period. So not
running out of projects the next couple of years ;-)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on December 10, 2011, 10:14:14 AM
Hi Bob.
Sure, will do. next time i am doing something for my dreadnought - might be this week - i will do a step by step explanation. On how you can do a lot of
these parts in your kitchen..   Ofcause some very finedetailed parts will require a etchingdevice. I have such a device, as i have a lot to build, and also
supporting my klubmates. But a lot is done on a very simple way wich you all could do.


 O0 O0 :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 10, 2011, 11:38:14 AM
Great Harley.  Best start a new thread for that, I will look out for it.

I have hit some challenges on my funnels, nothing supplied to make the funnel tops, so I may be a while before more pictures whilst I do some mini fabrication.  Also, four sets of white metal funnel steam pipes - but all the length of the tallest funnel.  I will cut the pipes near the centre to shorten, file step stub to fit aluminium tube of the same OD as the pipes, then epoxy back together.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/funneldetail.gif)

I am working out how to airbrush the many resin and white metal fittings, without losing reference to their assembly ID's.  Maybe if I mount them in sets on card using Blue Tack with ID's marked in black, then photograph before overspraying the parts and references.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on December 10, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
Great Harley.  Best start a new thread for that, I will look out for it.

Of cause.. Do´nt want to spoil your thread ;-)

reg. Harley
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: derekwarner on December 10, 2011, 12:07:13 PM
Thanks Harley......... :-)) members from around the world wide Mayhem group await you new thread & instruction...... O0 {-) Derek in OZ.......... %)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 10, 2011, 12:37:13 PM
Of cause.. Do´nt want to spoil your thread ;-)
reg. Harley

Not at all, I was suggesting that to keep it together under a new heading that fellow Mayhemers can easily find.  O0
Suggest you go to 'Hints tips & techniques' from the Home page, then 'Tutorials. How to', and click the 'new topic' button at the top of the page.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 17, 2011, 10:02:30 AM
More progress:

Funnels:
As reported last time, a few challenges to overcome.  With nothing supplied in the kit for the funnel caps I had to fabricate them.  Laminates of Plasticard, fine gauze from a flour sieve, and soldered brass wire for the funnel cages.  Caps are still 'loose' prior to painting.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild22.jpg)
For the funnel steam pipes, in the end I did not have to cut and step-stub the white metal castings, which were all the length of the tallest funnel.  The forward pipes I was able to carefully straighten and re bend.  The aft ones were more of a problem, but as they were of a simpler shape I decided to use 3/32 copper tube instead. 

Steam pipe spreaders:  Instead of attaching loads of brass wire lengths to the pipes, then bending them to attach to funnels, I thought it might be neater to fit the supports to the funnel then attach the pipes to them.  After trying “D” forming the wire in the end I found that Bambi sized staples were more consistent.  Assembling was thus easier, locating into fine saw cuts in the pipes rather than drilling lots of holes in them.

Ventilators:
Below is image if the ventilators.  These were straightforward, vacuum formed bells with cast resin bases.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuils23.jpg)

Next areas for building:  Rear gun platform and bridge assemblies.


Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 20, 2011, 03:00:00 PM
Rear Gun Platform:
This sub assembly proved interesting, which was down to me going beyond what the kit intended.  

The rear 4 inch gun:
Four parts in cast metal plus a resin casting.  Very little flash cleaning required.  Having found a nice detail plan of this QF gun I thought I’d add some extra detail such as the training mechanism.  Brass wire, platicard, and some tiny washers.  Also added mounting base in lithoplate so I could add the many nuts around the mounting flange.  Cutting holes in litho a challenge.  I used a hollow punch.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild24.jpg)  2 inch dia rear gun platform
Gun platform.
Was to be a plastic circle on a vacuum formed base, with square section deck pattern.  Having found a similar era TBD platform on the Martime Museum site I tried to recreate the detail structure from that.  Plastistruct channels shaved right down and “I” beam supports underneath (not really visible above).  Die cast ladder sections fitted with wire reinforcing as ladder bottoms will not be attached due to my steering gear access hatch ending before the ladder.

Stanchions:
I had opted to exchange the original etched sheets of lengths of complete rail sections for individual 2 & 3 hole 11mm RN type.  During this part I began to regret my ambitiousness, but persevered.  I had bought a nice 12W miniature soldering iron for the job, but before the solder melted the brass wire became like HD springs pulling it all out of shape – just as the heat started to melt the plastic deck I had so carefully drilled.
Try again !   This time I fitted the stanchions, super-glued them in, then threaded the wire, finally applying more super glue to the wire joints.  Vastly better and more controllable, the rail sets are remarkably strong when finished.   Two hole are for areas that on the original fold down when cleared for action, three hole elsewhere.

Only another 200 stanchions on this ship.  It’s all a learning curve.   ;)   ;)
Bridge next, including the interior.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 27, 2011, 03:37:33 PM
A bit more progress, although had to divert to preparing the hull for painting as stanchions have been driving me nuts lately.

HULL
Instead of just painting in portholes, or drilling and plugging, I thought I’d try short lengths of 1/8” brass tube filled with clear casting resin.  These will be super glued in after painting.  First step was to position 0.7mm pilot indents with a pin drill, open up a reasonable 1/8” countersink just using a drill bit, then drill through (carefully) with the RotaCraft drill.   
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild25.jpg)
A good rub down then I can clean the hull with detergent with a bit of Astonish.  Next will be a light spray with Halfords plastic primer to key the surface before firing up my new airbrush.

STANCHIONS
I had really struggled with these on the bridge, requiring five bends along a 70mm length using RN type individual stanchions.  When all else fails, search Mayhem resources !   I would really recommend this ‘How To’ thread.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5326.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5326.0)

On reflection, based on the above, I figured out that my problems were perhaps due to using too thin a brass wire.  Now armed with a big magnifier lamp and digital vernier I can see the 0.3mm wire is extremely loose in the stanchion holes, which are around 0.6 dia.  I reckon I should have been using 0.5 wire in which case I may have a better chance of creating free standing rail assemblies without them collapsing like chain mail.

When my local model shop opens I will get some 0.5 dia. 
To experienced modellers this all may seem blindingly obvious, but we all had to learn the first time   %)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on December 28, 2011, 03:04:28 PM
HULL PREPARATION
Hull rubbed down and cleaned with detergent plus a little Astonish.  Masked up props, wheelhouse, then filled access areas with aluminium foil.  Light coat of primer to key surfaces for airbrushing, also to access hatches and major sub assemblies.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild26.jpg)
However, this has shown up a few minor blemishes which will need to be dealt with before going further.
Any ideas on good ways to manipulate / otherwise rotate and roll a hull for spraying?  Maybe a cake decorating turntable or Lazy Susan ?
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 01, 2012, 09:26:51 PM
ICKLE BITS
After priming the hull the next stage was preparing masses of die cast or resin ‘ickle bits’ for spraying.  Although the casting quality is very good each part required some cleaning up with rifler files and craft knife.  This does take quite a bit of time, but I am not going to shortcut on finish.  Each piece was then mounted onto card using strips of double sided sticky tape.
One ‘headscratcher’ for someone new to airbrushes was how to retain the part ID’s without spraying them over.  I had thought of writing on the card then photographing the cards, but decided to Pritstick strips of paper alongside the sticky tape so I could write on the card with the paper hopefully protecting the writing.  Some of these cards are shown below, although around 200 parts in all.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild27.jpg)
Torpedo tube assemblies mounted on a wooden block to make it easier to spray underneath.  The anchors and anchor chain I may hang from thread to get all round.
Loads more fittings to do, but at least I am getting it all mounted in batches per colour to simplify painting.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 03, 2012, 06:25:52 PM
Painting:
After some problems with my first attempt at airbrushing I must first thank fellow Mayhemer's for their appreciated advice.  To avoid repeating myself see ...
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34145.msg344307;topicseen#msg344307 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34145.msg344307;topicseen#msg344307)

Anyway, quick build update:  Hull and most of the individual die cast & resin parts, plus sub assemblies, are painted, but will need further coats.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/painting1.jpg)
It is starting to look like a ship rather than white plastic & GRP.  After finishing the painting I can concentrate on railings sets, deck planking, and portholes etc.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 10, 2012, 02:42:08 PM
SLOW PROGRESS

A week ago I felt I was on a roll having practiced my first airbrushing, but had been forced into thumb twiddling for most of the time since.  My local model shop ran out of Tamiya XF-19 so I ordered another four online.  Great, they dispatched promptly, but it took Royal Mail five days to deliver the package.
 (http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/thumbtwiddling.jpg)

One thing I have found with airbrushes is losing the ability to brush neat paint into hairline joins and blemishes.  Out came the super fine brushes to do some cosmetic filling.  (Purists will gasp in horror.)  Spraying seems to highlight things that looked good before painting.  Live and learn.

Another two coats of Sky Grey on the hull fittings and sub assemblies.  Coverage now looks good, but it has taken 8 pots of Tamiya to reach this point.  A pity they don’t do five gallon drums.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild28a.jpg)

Now I have to wait another week (I assume?) before I can mask up the hull for red lead underside, then perhaps another week before I can remask for the black waterline.  More thumb twiddling !
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/thumbtwiddling.jpg)

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on January 10, 2012, 05:12:02 PM
Airbrushing is a thing of its own  {-)  Bob you  - just an suggestion. its the way i use to do it - could have sprayed the waterline first. then masked it as it
should be looking when finished.  spray with waterlinecolour again over the maskingtape, to prevent hull and bottomcolours to kreep under the maskingtape
and this way youll have sharp fine lines between the colours. and you save a lot of time and masking  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 10, 2012, 05:49:34 PM
Sounds like a good idea Harley, thanks  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on January 10, 2012, 07:48:20 PM
I know I should have told you before you got into brushing the hull.  but I have been
away from this forum due to other "missions" Such as drawing fittingparts for etching  ;)
So I have been studying the plans for my next build the HMS Renown to see wich parts
i might want to etch..  but I have to say I really do like your Amazon   ok2

you might want to have a look at the last updates on my dreadnought:
http://warshipmodelsdk.informe.com/forum/classic-warships-f7/hms-dreadnought-t41.html

the writing is danish. but you can have a look at the pics  :} :}
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 12, 2012, 10:15:56 PM
Starting to detail

Whilst waiting for the sprayed paint to dry solid enough to accept masking tape I thought I would get on with a little detailing.  First pic is the wheelhouse interior, before fitting the bridge over it.  Well, someone is bound to peer through the clear acrylic windows.  Doors and hand rails also added. 
Wheelhouse measures 20mm fore to aft.
Second picture is the secondary steering position screen to go on the quarterdeck.  Instead of just drilling holes for the windows I fitted 1/8” brass tube, 2mm long, and added support beams.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/bridgeinterior.jpg)       (http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/auxsteeringscreen.jpg)     

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 14, 2012, 09:00:41 PM
Basic hull painting complete

Beginning to look like a warship now.  For the underside I used a Halfords rattle can as this primer was the only decent colour match I could find.  I am surprised neither Humbrol or Tamiya consider ‘red lead’ a colour model ship builders would want.  Despite using top quality masking tape and burnishing down well there was some bleeding underneath plus a distinct paint step left.  Rubbed down and used black Trimline tape for the waterline rather than try to hand brush it.  I used dark green for the anti slip areas as I had seen this colour for similar ships, rather than a dark red / brown.  Personal preference over ‘accuracy’.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild29.jpg)
All ready to start the deck planking.  This should be fun !
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 16, 2012, 10:59:19 AM
Deck Planking
Made a start on the decking.  Trying to simulate planks roughly 8 inches width and approx 16 ft long, using 2mm x 0.5 thick maple strips, stained by soaking in tea.  Not as easy as it appears !   Each row stepped by half a length, plus getting the joins in three large access hatches to line up.  At this size I ended up using a black felt tip for caulking, rather than black thread as that got adhesive on the top face.  Now starting on the rear deck, with margin planks in first.  I intend to try to joggle / cut in ends of planks to the margin planks as I work outwards from the centre line.   Fresh scalpel blades and a big magnifier lamp.
Never done this before.  Hopefully I will get better with practice.   %%   O0

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild30.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on January 16, 2012, 12:20:22 PM
 {:-{ {:-{ Did´nt know they had wooden decks at all..   :o  Thought the decks were all steeldecks  %)
Anyway the "woodwork" you are doing looks really fine Bob.  This is really going to be a very detailed
"little" Warship  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: dreadnought72 on January 16, 2012, 12:37:14 PM
I intend to try to joggle / cut in ends of planks to the margin planks as I work outwards from the centre line.   Fresh scalpel blades and a big magnifier lamp.
Never done this before.  Hopefully I will get better with practice.

It is just practice. And a steady hand!

Amazon's looking good, Bob!

Andy
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 16, 2012, 01:41:18 PM
You may be right about all steel decks Harley, but I have no photos showing the actual decks and as many warships before and since had planking I thought I would give it a go.  I love detailing, and pushing my limits !

Thank you Andy.  As with everything else in model making I have found so far iis that learning is all about experience and practice.  When I restart my K Class sub that will require higher challenges.  I am enjoying myself, and picking up much from this forum.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on January 16, 2012, 03:23:54 PM
You ar so absolutely right..  They could have woodden decks as well as all steel.  At least I like wooden decks so much better.
So when we are going to re-do the two tribals, we will follow, and plank them i think  :-)) :-))

I did almost the same as you with the speedmarker, only I used a soft pencil instead.. both the same, your idea will seem more
right i think, as it will turn out more black..   :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 17, 2012, 09:35:25 AM
Rear decking ready for sanding.  Cutting in planks to margin planks came out reasonable, plus access hatch joins.  The intent was to make the flanged rebated access panels as invisible as practical.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild31.jpg)
Two smaller areas on foredecks to do, plus bridge.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: steve pickstock on January 17, 2012, 10:51:56 AM
The intent was to make the flanged rebated access panels as invisible as practical.

So that's a result then! Lovely job.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 18, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Deck planking done.  Heck there was a lot of it, but glad I gave it a go.
As Andy rightly said “It is just practice. And a steady hand!”. 
It seems to have visually improved as I progressed, with bridge done last   F’o’c’sle shows effect of staining with tea after sanding down, better colouring IMHO.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild33.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: victorian on January 18, 2012, 07:25:41 PM
Superb piece of work, Bob. Look forward to seeing her in the flesh!
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: colin-d on January 19, 2012, 05:13:19 PM
me too...  :-))  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 19, 2012, 06:16:30 PM
Thank you David & Colin.  Should be a couple more months, not hurrying, but I will definitely be at Dean's Open day (October?) with Amazon and Skirmisher, possibly the K sub too by then.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 23, 2012, 12:12:46 PM
F’o’c’sle Detailing

Some real fun fiddly bits involved here, this planked area is just 2 inches wide.  The radial grip bars around the capstan were T sections cut down from Plastruct I beams, and brush painted on a card before gluing in situ.  The chain hawse entries were shaped in litho plate. The additional chain bollard was not supplied so I fabricated it in ABS.  Fitting the chain ends into the cast metal fittings required a jig so I could hang the chain ends into the upturned fittings for super gluing.  Anchors, anchor cranes, and railings to fit next.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild34.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: pugwash on January 23, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Really coming to life now Bob  :-)) :-)) :-))

Geoff
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 24, 2012, 03:31:55 PM
Thank you Geoff.  Everything so far has only increased my respect for the experienced modellers here!  The number of new skills one has to master are legion.  1/96 is not an ideal scale to learn on.  Took me all day to do this 5 bend 11 stanchion section.  Hopefully as I progress I can find a better method to do these more neatly.  Once the joints are super glued it's solid, but up to then it is like micro macrame.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild35.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 24, 2012, 05:26:33 PM
Bob,
Be careful only using superglue on railings and stanchions.
If it gets knocked then the glue can break and any tension in the section break a far greater number of joints.
A few stanchions soldered will stop this spread.
I alwaysb solder every joint and have had them knocked flat and raised them carefully without any lasting problems.

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 24, 2012, 05:50:22 PM
Thanks for the suggestion Bob.  I did try soldering. I had bought a nice 12W miniature soldering iron for the job, but before the solder melted the brass wire became like HD springs pulling it all out of shape – just as the heat started to melt the plastic deck I had so carefully drilled.  I thought about making up a hardwood jig for each section, clamping/wiring it all securely before soldering, but getting the fixing holes to line up accurately might be difficult? The 0.4mm thick stanchions have only about 0.1mm land around the rail holes.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/stanchions.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on January 24, 2012, 05:57:59 PM
Thanks for the suggestion Bob.  I did try soldering. I had bought a nice 12W miniature soldering iron for the job, but before the solder melted the brass wire became like HD springs pulling it all out of shape – just as the heat started to melt the plastic deck I had so carefully drilled.  I thought about making up a hardwood jig for each section, clamping/wiring it all securely before soldering, but getting the fixing holes to line up accurately might be difficult?


But thats exactly the way to do it Bob. Getting the holes to fit is not that difficult, as you put your
modelpiece - where the railing wil be mounted. draw a line around it when placed on the hardwood.
and drill the holes for the stanchions. that way they will have the same position on the hardwood
and you have the drawn lines to bend after.  thats the way i did my admirals walk on the dreadnought.
and that was also the very first time i soldered a railing.


(http://s9.postimage.org/sxaitnmwb/IMAG0455.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sxaitnmwb/)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Harley on January 24, 2012, 06:01:21 PM
Forgot to mention that i soldered at around 340 degrees. this made it very easy to
only get solder to the joints and not to all the brass  :-))
(http://s10.postimage.org/v9n44y6v9/IMAG0430.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v9n44y6v9/)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 24, 2012, 06:08:59 PM
Bob,
I usually solder mine in position.
It makes it far easier to bend the wire when in position.
I use bakers fluid ( a liquid flux) painted on with a small brush.
I set a small 90 degree reference and use a large pair of angled long nose pliers.
This acts as a heatsink so no damage to the deck and allows the James lane type to be held together.
With this method I do not use any adhesive on the deck as the small tension placed on the uprights keep them well in place.
Each upright is soldered individually.
When you get into the swing of things I can easily solder 15 feet of railings  in a couple of hours.
I use a 25 Watt Iron as you can work much faster lessening any heat damage.

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 24, 2012, 08:10:52 PM
Sorry guys, I wish soldering was an option.  It would have been so much easier, but as I said even ‘dry’ assembled sections fitted into drilled holes do not want to stand on their own.  A bit like a bead necklace.  Any heat applied seems to twist it all out of shape as brass wires ‘spring’ unequally under heat.
I apologise if I seem frustrated.  I could try building a flat section on its side, held to a block of wood with double sided tape to hold everything down and prevent it moving around.  However, the one I’ve just done required the five bends in each rail done first, then threading the stanchions like beads to get corner pillars at roughly 45 degrees in the centre of the bend.  Maybe the trick is to avoid corner pillars and bend afterwards?
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 24, 2012, 08:35:35 PM
Bob,
It sounds like you are holding the iron for too long against the joint.
I must admit I am not a great fan of etched brass stanchions, they just won't take as much abuse as the split type.
Each to his own though if it works for you and you are happy with it that is all that matters.

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 24, 2012, 08:57:58 PM
Appreciate your help Bob.  I am just a little frustrated at the mo'.  Perhaps I should try turned stanchions. There is so little 'meat' round the etched hole compared with the larger volume section of the 0.5 wire which means the bar heats up too fast before the wire gets to solder temperature.  I was not having a go.  Honest  O0
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 24, 2012, 09:08:33 PM
That is why they are not my favourite type of upright.
You can do it but you must use a heatsink on the upright.
It will always be awkward with 2 metals of such different volumes but with a bit of practice it can be done.
My warning about superglue comes from watching a complete stretch of railings joint failing after the superglue got brittle after time.
A relative small area of damage turned into a large repair after the railings were bent and took out a few joints.
The superglue is brittle and can get worse with age.
Didn't think you were having a go at all.

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on January 24, 2012, 09:33:57 PM
Must admit I too opted for super glued railings, because of heat concerns.
Had a slight accident, dropped a large F cramp on to the deck and now need to fix a section of railing.
If it was soldered, suppose could release (melt) all joints and straighten every thing.
Used round stanchions, an old billings kit.

Have also been looking at etched bars stanchions and note the commentary about them.

Is there a tutorial/thread on handrails, if not, could someone please start one.

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 24, 2012, 11:20:15 PM
There certainly is............... CLICK HERE (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4898.0)

Bob
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: DickyD on January 24, 2012, 11:45:10 PM
If I am using any manufactured stanchions I fix the stanchions first then I fix the horizontal wires next by using a hot iron and solder, I find a hot iron solders quicker and less heat is transferred to the deck.

If the stanchions are just vertical wire I do tend to assemble them on a flat surface lying down.
I then fix to boat when soldered.

I dont use super glue on the joints at all.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 25, 2012, 12:58:33 AM
Your link was interesting Bob, those split stanchions look to have a lot more metal for solderability.  Also good sized deck holes.  Mine are drilled 0.4 dia for spigots 1.5mm long, so when just pushed into the deck they are not really free standing before gluing, which may be part of my 'bead neckace' problem.   
11mm turned brass stanchions would be solidly free standing and solderable but work out to 66p each, and over 200 needed.
For long straight runs the 'build flat on its side' method sounds good, but for the 3 or 4 bend sections I will still be challenged.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on January 25, 2012, 05:41:07 AM
There certainly is............... CLICK HERE (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4898.0)

Bob

Bob,

Thank you well explained, especially about getting the 'wire' straight.  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: RaaArtyGunner on January 25, 2012, 05:42:27 AM
If I am using any manufactured stanchions I fix the stanchions first then I fix the horizontal wires next by using a hot iron and solder, I find a hot iron solders quicker and less heat is transferred to the deck.

If the stanchions are just vertical wire I do tend to assemble them on a flat surface lying down.
I then fix to boat when soldered.

I dont use super glue on the joints at all.

Dicky,

Thank you.  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 25, 2012, 11:42:45 AM
Thank you:
OK guys, after taking your tips and suggestions on board, with the limitations of these etched stanchions, I have formulated a plan to try.  Assemble the stanchion rail section, superglue all but the top rail, then using this Maplin heat shunt (sort of tweezers clip) http://www.maplin.co.uk/heat-shunt-3930 (http://www.maplin.co.uk/heat-shunt-3930) so I can solder the top rail joints. The glued joints should hopefully hold it all in place for the brief period when heat is applied, and the heat shunt reduce deck melt risk if I'm quick.  Should make it all stronger.  :-))

Portholes:
Meanwhile I am getting on with the 60 portholes which in a moment of madness I decided to glaze.  Hull drilled 3mm prior to spraying.  Cut 5mm lengths of clear 1/8" dia acrylic rod, polished ends and slightly bevelled inner face. Holes opened up to 3.2mm then secured glaze plugs flush into hull.  Using John Haynes etched portholes I tweezed up the eyebrows as per notes he kindly wrote on the delivery paperwork, then fixed portholes over holes. 
Paint eyebrows.  Minimal touch up round holes.  No problems.  Slightly extended plugs should aid internal lighting.
That went a lot better than I hoped.   O0
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 30, 2012, 10:38:34 AM
With the decking etc done the time came to add the pre-prepared sub assemblies and fittings.  All of a sudden she looks nearly complete.  It seems ages now, but it’s only been three months, mostly evenings.  Along the way I’ve had a lot of fun, at times torn my hair out, but have learned a lot during this build.  The three big magnetic access hatches are barely discernable now, but lift out fairly easily.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild36.jpg)
Still a fair bit to do.  Railings, ship boats, masts and rigging.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: pugwash on January 30, 2012, 11:45:32 AM
Bob I have just been soldering lattice masts on a frigate and someone on another forum suggested "Carrs 188 Solder Paint" it is a liquid suspension of solder and flux
and you paint it on with a fine (very) paint brush and then take the iron to it and just touch it on.  Works a treat and does not leave blobs of solder.
Not cheap but worth it.  I shall be doing all my guard rails/wires with it as I solder all three wires anyway.
Cheapest place seems to be Antics online though their P & P is a bit pricey so its worth ordering other things at the same time.
A bonus with it is after you paint it on, because you are not holding solder wire in one hand you have an extra hand to hold tweezers etc to keep the piece in position
whilst you solder

Geoff

http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/523_1.html
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 30, 2012, 11:50:54 AM
I agree with Geoff, solder paint is very useful, especially for railings and you don't get all those blobs to file down afterwards.

Colin
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 30, 2012, 12:32:31 PM
Thanks Colin & Geoff.  I must restate that the problem is more basic than soldering, like start with getting 'chain mail' to stand up on its own, even to super glue, has been fraught. I need to solve that issue first.  
If I can fine detail and do 2mm planking then assembling railings should be a doddle?.  
First I upped the wire size from 0.3 to 0.5 to get a less sloppy fit in the holes.  That helped.  Next I have ordered different stanchions which appear to have more 'meat' around the holes plus a larger spiggot with a more pronounced shoulder which may help in making them free standing in the deck holes. Current type will not stand alone even in a press fit 0.3mm hole.  Flat, with allmost no shoulder.
I now have a heat shunt (tweezers) which may help reduce deck melting before the top rail reaches solder temperature.
I have just ordered some Carrs 188 Solder Paint.
Wish me luck !  Maybe its just the stanchions I am using?  I am sure I would have no problem with turned ones, but they work out to 66p each.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dreadstar on January 30, 2012, 03:24:53 PM
This is turning out to be a really stunning build Bob,congratulations. :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on January 30, 2012, 03:57:15 PM
Thank you Dreadstar.  Once I can sort out the railings I will be almost there  O0  Tee hee !
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 09, 2012, 12:19:53 AM
Carrs 188 solder paint is the biz !!!   Remarkable, with this brush-applied to each joint just the briefest touch of a soldered iron makes a joint limited to just the area ‘painted’.  Controllable.  No styrene deck melt.  Impressive.   :-))

However, before this I had a fraught a week trialling numerous methods of assembling 1/96 etched rail sections.  Dry assembled sections twist like DNA and will not free stand even in a drilled hardwood jig.  Spring force in three preformed wires exceeds flat spigot grip in 0.4 mm deck holes.   {:-{

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild38.jpg) 

Only one method worked.  Thread the bars onto the rails like a lace necklace, then starting at one end press fit four spigots into the deck with tweezers, then superglue the first three spigots.  When set do the next four, much more than four and it all pops out.  34 angled support bars were fitted and soldered last.  It means I have had to solder and paint all 288 stanchions and rails in situ, but that’s not a problem.  Patience and a steady hand.   O0

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild39.jpg)  Prior to rail painting & fitting of anchors chains and anchor cranes.


(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild40.jpg)  Prior to main deck rail painting.


This has been perhaps the most time consuming stage of the build.  I could have made life a lot easier by using the pre-made etched flat rail sections supplied with the kit.  However individual stanchions do make a more realistic job.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dreadstar on February 09, 2012, 05:51:01 AM
What a superb job Bob O0 O0 :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dave13 on February 09, 2012, 08:04:19 AM
Wow Bob she looks really great  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 09, 2012, 08:51:04 AM
Thank you.  I should note that the flagstaffs are of slightly chunkier contruction than scale.  This is ship for sailing, and experience over the last months on my cruiser has shown that these tend to be the most vulnerable projections in handling and transport.
Thank you again Geoff for the solder paint tip.  Gold Star advice  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 10, 2012, 08:44:29 PM
After painting the deck rails and stanchions last night I thought I'd do a bit more detailing today, this time building up the bridge assembly.  These rails had been built last month using superglue.  I now wish I had had made them up like the deck rails I soldered this week.
Canvas screens added to railings. Rear sides of bridge made up, adding some Plastruct supports.  Anti slip base for bridge controls, using some Mantua fine gauze on ABS base.  Face of searchlight uses a disc of Bacofoil cut using a leather punch and fitted with contact adhesive.  Bridge is 55mm wide.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild41.jpg)
After glazing the wheelhouse I can fit the bridge wing support pillars, fit it on top, then add the two access companionways.
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 11, 2012, 03:07:33 PM
Now I am really enjoying myself, it’s all finally coming together.   %)  ok2  ;)
I just love detailing all the ikkle bits, fine brush painting, and starting to get more of the sub assemblies installed.  I have now completed and fitted the bridge, plus all the surrounding bits that can now be put into place.  Anchor cranes in, plus the remaining companionways with side rails.  Personally I really like seeing multiple levels of companionways, whether on tugs or warships.  No idea why, maybe it just ‘leads’ the eye to travel across the deck levels.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild42.jpg)

PS:  First photo using my new Fujifilm HS20EXR.  IMO a vast improvement over my cheap pocket compact camera, especially for photographing model boats  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 17, 2012, 03:23:48 PM
Ships boats:
Having previously built a set of ships boats from vacuum formings for my cruiser I decided to see how much detail I could add.  These are smaller, just 45 to 85 mm.  Using 10 thou Plasticard I laid deck covers over the inner vacform recesses, then the ribs and deck detail.  Outer hulls scribed to highlight keel line and planking.  Annular top facing boards, inner keel tops, seats and rudders added in 0.5mm styrene, then rowlocks using fine Plastruct ‘H” beams.  Lastly, oars made from brass wire and thin Plasticard. 

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild44.jpg)


Damage Control
From sailing experiences over the last months with my HMS Skirmisher rebuild I have incorporated some practical damage control on areas found to be potentially vulnerable in handling and transport.  Firstly, nothing projects outside the hull profile.  Brass rod/tube masts are fitted in blind brass tube sockets to mitigate possible repairs.  Both flag staffs have been built slightly chunkier than scale using soldered copper tube and brass rod.   Wherever possible, especially in vulnerable positions, epoxy used on fittings. 

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dave13 on February 18, 2012, 12:04:59 PM
Hi Bob
She looks really great your a inspiration to us all !!!  :-)) :-))
Keep it up  :-)
Dave:)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 18, 2012, 02:25:07 PM
Thanks Dave, although I’m new to all this.  Full credit to Mayhem and the many Mayhemers who have given me so much valuable advice.

Ultimate careening.
Can’t do this on a real boat!    Special thanks for advice to use Plasticote interior satin varnish spray.  Zero reaction to acrylic or enamel, and a nice looking protective finish.  Two lightish coats.  Now I can mount the rest of the funnels, masts and deck fittings.  I intend spraying just one coat on the topsides, before adding rigging, boats and crew.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild46.jpg)

The ships boats photo did not come out well.  This one is from closer, and in daylight.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild45.jpg)

View of Fo’c’s’le from front.  Anchors and chains mounted.  Ships crest on bridge was from an image on Google, reduced in MS Publisher (so as not to reduce detail) and printed on Kodak photo paper.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/ABuild47.jpg)

The Fjords of Black Park are starting to call.   O0
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Completed !
Post by: bobk on February 21, 2012, 03:52:27 PM
HMS Amazon 1906 - Completed !

Finally, last items of rigging fitted, crew aboard and White Ensign hoisted.  My HMS Amazon build project is completed.   Is it true that when you can thread and fit John R Haynes 1/96 eyebolts you can call yourself a modeller?   If so, I may be getting closer   %%

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazon8.jpg)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazon5.jpg)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazon3a.jpg)

Extra crew member “Rose” by the “Jack”staff.
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazon4.jpg)

My first ship ‘kit’.  I have learned a lot on this journey.  Many thanks  for everyones help and suggestions.  
To complete this build thread I will offer my conclusions from this project, then finish with some photos from the sea trials.
  Hopefully this weekend  O0  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Welsh Wizard on February 21, 2012, 04:09:34 PM
Hope it looks as awsome on the water as it it on here


Dave
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Dave13 on February 21, 2012, 06:49:56 PM
Wow Bob
She looks great I hope you have a nice time sailing her at the weekend  :-)) :-))
Dave:)
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: raflaunches on February 21, 2012, 08:16:56 PM
Hi Bobk

Is that a reference to the film Titanic? ok2

Brilliant model you've got there Bob, hope it sails well, might want to remove Rose just incase, too many references to bad luck!
A woman on board and from a film about a ship that sank! You might be asking for trouble  %)
Seriously, it ticks all the correct boxes, it looks good so it will sail good.

Nick B
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: bobk on February 21, 2012, 09:01:31 PM
Thank you all.   
Nick B:  "Is that a reference to the film Titanic?"  That was a reference to another thread, '1/96 scale figures', in which I found an additional cast figure in the box of RN Marine Figures got for my destroyer.
See http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=35204.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=35204.0)  for story, there were various options  :embarrassed:
Also; with all my litho plate rivets, one is painted Gold !
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Conclusions & Summary
Post by: bobk on February 22, 2012, 12:22:40 AM
Conclusions & Build Summary

Before final sea trials in completed trim, which will officially conclude this build, I’d like to share my thoughts and offer some conclusions.
Please remember I only got back into models last year, having scratch built static non ships in my teens. 
My first ship kit, this build took just over four months, mostly evenings.

This ‘kit’ has proved excellent value, less than 50p per hour in enjoyment, although I have spent much more in going beyond Deans build intent.  For anyone considering building one as per the instructions it is an excellent starter project, with ample scope to customise and provide extra challenges.  Good full size plan with colour photos, well detailed instructions, cast & resin fittings good quality needing minimal cosmetic finishing.  The decks and superstructure are printed plastic, not CNC cut, so measure carefully before cutting.  Only a few adjustments were needed.

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazon7.jpg)

Some (maybe obvious) tips from an almost newbie:   Patience and planning. 
Also, if you’re going to expend this much time and devotion into building a model, don’t go ‘cheap’ on running gear and electrics.  ha'porth of tar ?

My additions to spec included twin motors and shafts, improved rudder, going overboard on anti-slip, litho and other detailing, individual deck planking, portholes, and single stanchions rather than the etched flat rail sections supplied.  I hope this build shows what can be created from a ‘kit’ costing less than two hundred, plus the cost of my additions.

Things that hurt my brain along the way were diversions of my own making.  My first brush with airbrushes, planking, glazed portholes, and the stanchions.  However, nothing ventured, nothing learned.  Yes, I can see many things I could have made better, which will be on my next build after experience gained.  I hope my photo log will encourage others to test their limits.  You may be surprised and pleased with the result.

Thank you to all who have given advice and tips during this project. 
Special credits to suppliers Deans Marine, John R Haynes, and Mantua Models (just down the road).

Batteries charged.  Departing fitting out basin (bath test), course set for Black Park Lake.  ETA this weekend.

Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: pugwash on February 22, 2012, 05:13:58 AM
Well I hope sea trials go well Bob as she looks very nice and a pleasant change from all the modern warwhips like wot I make

Geoff
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: barryfoote on February 22, 2012, 08:10:03 AM
Best of luck with the sea trials Bob. She looks great.. :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon - Launching Conventions?
Post by: bobk on February 25, 2012, 10:48:41 AM
Launching Conventions?
Being my first-built ship I am unsure as to what the conventions and etiquette are for launching.  When mentioning my first sea trials this Sunday several people have asked “what about the Champagne?”.  Is there supposed to be a ceremony involved, even with a model?

Not wishing to tempt fate I tried everywhere to get a box of bottle shaped liqueur chocolates, without success.  Too late to order online.  So, last night I decided to make a super magnum from 1/8” acrylic rod.  She will be launched by Rose, already at the bow rail (see photo)

(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/Champagne.jpg)
Thanks for the good wishes guys !
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Sea Trials at Black Park
Post by: bobk on February 26, 2012, 02:48:13 PM
HMS Amazon 1906  -  Sea Trials at Black Park

Sea Trials of my HMS Amazon concludes this build sequence.  A beautiful warm sunny morning at Black Park Lake.  Pre-flight checks done, a micro Champagne bottle launching ceremony, then lowered into the water.  Two points helm and slow ahead all.  The transition from a workshop project to a working vessel is delightful.

Twin Raboesch motors.  The ACTION P94 is an excellent combined mixer with twin ESC’s, and so easy to set up.  The 6V NiCad pack runs all morning and the sea-keeping qualities are superb for a 900mm ship of only 89mm beam.  Turns on a sixpence with very little roll as can be seen on the YouTube clip (below), and with a realistic wake at a scale 33 kts. 

Everything works nicely.  No water ingress from shafts or numerous glazed portholes.
I am well pleased. 


HMS Amazon underway at a scale 33 kts
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazonatBlackPark7.jpg)

A perfect sailing day at Black Park
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazonatBlackPark6.jpg)

On full helm, showing how well the Action P94 can turn this long slim ship.  (sse video clip)
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n626/bobkiralfy/HMS%20Amazon/HMSAmazonatBlackPark13.jpg)

No Oscar nominations for my first ever attempt at making a short You Tube movie. 
YouTube Movie:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cl_HNu06WY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cl_HNu06WY)
Thank you to fellow club member Frank for taking the helm whilst I became Key Grip.

Bob K
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: colin-d on February 26, 2012, 06:03:15 PM
very nice, job done very well  :-))  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on February 27, 2012, 03:20:28 PM

Smashing job there, Bob.  What a turning circle eh.  :-))


ken