Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: john s 2 on October 28, 2011, 10:09:55 pm
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It was with sadness that i saw that staff at Sandibanks Poole.Had nothing better to do than make using RNLI equipement a film of doubtful quality mocking certain types of people.These staff are i understand paid,i hope that their actions were in there own time.The RNLI is a fine insitution and thoughtless actions like this will sadly bring it into disrepute.Lets hope this will be a one off.With regret.John.
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Link? News Story? Blog post? Anything further?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-15497246
Regards
Alan R
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054614/RNLI-lifeguards-hot-water-posting-spoof-video-featuring-simulating-sex-making-homophobic-slurs-impersonating-Hitler.html?ITO=1490
What a bunch of "xxxxx"!!
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That's one set of lifeguards who won't be on duty next year. The RNLI must be spitting tacks!
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well they will finance a bunch of young dudes and pay for their toys (quads,jet skiis,4x4s,etc) to parade around our beaches,just to look after the stupids who rely on them to rake them out of situations they are to stupid to judge and now don't have to take responsability for.
Just my opinion
Dave
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well they will finance a bunch of young dudes and pay for their toys (quads,jet skiis,4x4s,etc) to parade around our beaches,just to look after the stupids who rely on them to rake them out of situations they are to stupid to judge and now don't have to take responsability for.
Just my opinion
Dave
Well, in that case why have a lifeboat service at all just to rescue people who shouldn't have gone to sea or are careless enough to run their ships aground because they don't maintain the engines properly. And, come to that, why have an ambulance service to pick up the pieces because drivers don't look where they are going and have accidents. And, and... - well, where do you stop?
If you assume that it is better to try and rescue people rather than leave them to drown then the Lifeguard Service, which I think is paid for to a large extent by the local authority anyway, is cheaper than having more lifeboats on call to deal with these situations.
One assumes from your comments that you don't read the lifeboat journal which reports on some of these incidents.
Colin
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Alot of people using surf skiis etc. do so expecting these people to go out after them and drag them back at which point they go out again they need to be responsible for there own actions not rely on someone else to be there to drag them out of the poo.
Totaly different to the yachtsman who goes out fully prepared but suffers a failed engine or some such incident but then has the emergency services to help.
I don't read the journels but i am fully aware of what my local boats and crews are doing
as i said just my opinion
Dave
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I can't imagine that anyone on this forum would argue against the fact that the RNLI is a fine institution and that the lifeboat crews are amongst the very best people that this country has to offer. We should all be very proud of them.
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Dave,
I would agree that there are some irresponsible selfish people about but that is true at all levels including people who put to sea unprepared in small boats and masters of huge container ships who run them at full speed onto marked reefs in broad daylight!
But, as with other types of rescue, most of the beach incidents appear to be due to peopl'e ignorance, underestimating their capapilities, being unaware of cross currents or simply not keeping a close enough eye on their kids. Very reprehensible perhaps but we all do stupid things from time to time.
Colin
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Not seen the film and not going to try either - probably wasn't worth watching anyway. Content is irrelevant just whether they were supposed to be on watch is worying.
But 'not keeping a close enough eye on their kids' is a sweeping generalisation.
Lost one of mine in less than five seconds - took two minutes of sheer hell to find her. She was playing hide and seek with us from behind someones parasol a few yards away. She could just as easily been in the water. We were obsesively attentive parents but nobodies perfect.
Regards Norseman
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I know personnaly people who go out on there surf skiis in totaly unsuitable sea conditions but they say "the lifeguards are here if we need them"
one recentlly was rescued her, her boyfriend and 4yr old on an inflatable kayak! in a rip tide! but they said it was fine as the lifeguards are watching. I made sure she donated and visited the lifeboat house afterwards.
Dave
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TBH watching seaside rescue a lot of the rescues they do are due to accidents. I'm thinking surf boards in the mush etc. Yup some lost kids & some stupid people but not all of them.
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Haven't seen the film and I am not interested in watching it, but how many on hear would say to them ....Please don't risk your life to rescue me you messed about having fun once with your mates. I think not many they are still very brave men who are probably at a very busy station who have saved countless lives ,so a slap on the wrist if anything. no one complained at the Army films and then the Navy one on I think it was Ark Royal.
Peter
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But the RNLI trades on its high reputation so something like this has a disproportionate effect on their image. Not quite the same as a bunch of sailors or soldiers where going a bit over the top sometimes is not unexpected behaviour.
Colin
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somebody in the topic said that the lifeguards are paid by the local councils or get the funding from the local authority well if that is true its us the tax payer that is paying them sorry if this offends anyone but they deserve all the money that is allocated to them and if a few idiots want to make a video of them selves messing around and then stupidly publish the said film on utube and the said film is deemed to be offensive then sack those involved and replace them with people who care to do the job. I still say that if you are stupid enough to put to see or go against expert advice when swimming I am of the opinion that if you need to be rescued through your own stupidity (not going prepared for what ever activity you are attempting) then you should pay towards your rescue. not talking about captains that put to sea and lose a mast or their engine just the percentage that don't give a dam for their own safety never mind their rescuers
Regards Mark
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I think the reason we have these lifeguards on beaches that have hidden dangers to the unwary, unthinking and downright unbelievable
is now down to the Elfin Safety and Sue No win No Fee that now blights our society.
Local Authorities are responsible for beaches and without some sort of safety team patrolling a beach could be described as failing in a duty of care
and open to all sorts of claims. The Elfins could step in and close the beach as a hazard costing the local economy untold amounts if tourists stay away.
Ned
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only going to say one thing......stupid lads and lasses .
However I would rather let my kids swim on a beach patrolled by these guys and girls, than on an unpatrolled beach where anything can and does happen.
Long live sensible RNLI lifeguards.
neil.
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I agree to your statement Neil, that hopefully our beaches are safer with Lifeguards on,when they are doing their duty,but dont forget the councils (taxpayers) pay for them and the RNLI,who you know I support wholeheartedly supply them with the best equipment available.DIDNT THEY LEAVE ONE OF THEIR 4 WHEEL DRIVES TO GET COVERED,AND WRECKED BY THE SEA RECENTLY? A couple of years ago someone in Cornwall almost lost their life, because the duty Lifeguard was "rescuing" a very attractive young lady in a cave? Most of the day they are playing beach bums and laying about on the beach chatting up the girls,or if not "patrolling" (joyriding???) on that top equipment?
The point is, they are being PAID,whereas our Lifeboatment,risk life and limb,to rescue stupid and unlucky people alike, but do it Voluntarily ?
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the councils (taxpayers) pay for them
didn't realise that guys...........sack the blighters and get a new more responsible lot in!!!
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Well, you would expect them to be paid wouldn't you as they are required to be on duty all day during the summer unlike lifeboatmen who have normal jobs and will only be spending a small amount of their time on 'shouts'.
Lifeguards have to be very fit and this usually means they are young as well. Young people frequently find it difficult to exercise judgement as to what is and what isn't acceptable social behaviour, it's hard wired into them at that age, and so it is easy for them to go over the top. This bunch clearly behaved in an unacceptable manner but I don't like the way that some people on here are quite happy to condemn both the lifeguards, the vast majority of which I am sure do a great job, and/or the people being rescued as being mostly feckless idiots when in most cases people get into trouble without having done anything particularly reprehensible.
By the same reasoning you could argue that all Mayhemers are intolerant ignoramuses given to kneejerk reactions and unable to look at things in a mature way. Certainly some I would say, but hardly a majority!
Don't just look at the extremes, let's keep things in proportion.
Colin
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I have not seen the vid and as the vid has been pulled unlikely to see it , was this done while on duty , was any harm done ?.
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actually colin, my last remark WAS tongue in cheek...........I really didn't see anything wrong in much of what they did on the film....in fact it was quite well put together, and I could see that someone has a great career in film production once their "summer vacation job" has come to an end.
It is nothing that most of us didn't get up to on lazy hazey long summer days in our youth if the truth be told,
and as I said earlier......I'd rather they be on duty than a council not doing anything to make our beaches safe.
being a beach bum from as young as I can remember I regularly went back to school from a summer holiday only to find that at least one school chum wouldn't be coming back at all........he'd lost his life to the perils of the sea off Fleetwood,
and without these guys and galls on our more popular beaches, I say.....there but for the grace of god go my kids or someone elses kids, and it's not a nice thought.
let them be guys......they haven't done anything more than we did as youths.
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let them be guys......they haven't done anything more than we did as youths.
FRom what I have read on here about some of the exploits of various members in past careers , I think that was pretty mild..
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......they haven't done anything more than we did as youths.
That is perfectly true. The problem is that they associated it with the RNLI and will attract opprobium for that alone. I haven't seen the film either. Then of course we get on to the 'setting an example' issue. If they are seen to get away with it (and because of the publicity a lot of people will be following the story) then others will think that this sort of behaviour is funny and OK as well. To use a comparison closer to home, time and time again on Mayhem we have seen the situation where somebody posts a bit of a risque joke and it is allowed to stand. Then somebody goes a bit further and somebody else tops that and before you know where you are real smut starts to appear and the Moderators have to go in heavy handed. People just don't seem to be able to help themselves.
These guys seem to have brought the RNLI into disrepute by association. No doubt they didn't mean to, they were just thoughtless, but they did and the likelihood is that they will pay a pretty high price. Wrong place, wrong time.
Colin
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We can all look back to what we did when young in the 'Hazy days' But,
we were beach bums not 'Employed Lifeguards'
Giving the RNLI bad publicity using RNLI gear and uniforms is not on
Make a satirical film by all means but in your own time with your own equipment
and keep the RNLI out of it
Ned
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the vids on youtube still. I would post it but ill probably be in trouble, its not serious its just not politically correct.
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They were just stupid in what they did but no real harm was done though the RNLI will have some temporary embarrasment
but it really is the pot calling the kettle black when its our devious, underhand and downright dishonest press corps who are
castigating them.
Geoff
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So many people with no sense of humour......... sigh
Nick
I watched it was fun, some may be offended but what does not offend someone somewhere
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Matters of taste aren't as important as the simple question - should they have been on beach watch at the time they were making a video? If they should have been and weren't then that's gross negligence and if they weren't then I'm not really bothered about them larking about. So does anyone know the answer to what they should have been doing?
Regards Norseman
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A pretty robust statement from the RNLI here: http://www.rnli.org.uk/who_we_are/press_centre/news_releases/news_release_detail?articleid=732103
Leaves you in no doubt about what they think and I can't say that I blame them.
Colin
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rair enough......nothing more to say on the matter. {:-{
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Just watched it, papers have blown it well out of proportion as usual, would have been much better to keep the whole affair in house and dealt with it that way rather than making it a media sensation.. It did not change the way I think about the RNLI or the Lifeguards, they both do a great job.. But I can see that not all may think that. 8)
Also noticed that there do seem to be other videos from various lifeguard sections , nothing seem sto have been said about them.
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The RNLI reply looks fairly stock standard reply that an organization would put out after the media has sensationalized said organisation's mishap.
Nick
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So many people with no sense of humour......... sigh
Nick
I watched it was fun, some may be offended but what does not offend someone somewhere
Roll out the champagne and party poppers, I actually agree with something you've said ;) {-)
We all gathered round and watched it yesterday, and we all thought it was absolutely hilarious. How many here like the style of humour of Monty Python? That film wasn't far detatched from what they've done.....
Andy :-)
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The RNLI reply looks fairly stock standard reply that an organization would put out after the media has sensationalized said organisation's mishap.
I don't think you quite 'get it' which is a little worrying.
I've seen some stills from the film and it is quite obvious that it is just an example of juvenile humour. Most people grow out of that phase and cringe at what they used to find funny, although some don't. It's just part of growing up.
The problem is that these kids were contracted employees of a respected National Institution and brought the reputation of their employers into disrepute. Whether or not you find it 'funny' is irrelevant. They have certainly breached the terms of their employment contract and will suffer the consequences. These won't really be severe, they won't be shot of deep sixed by their colleagues, just dismissed probably, but they will have learned a rather painful lesson and will look back on it with considerable embarrassment in the future.
As for the public at large, they will realise thet the tabloids have milked the situation as usual and in reality it will soon be forgotten by most people except perhaps by some of their lifeguard colleagues elsewhere who will feel shamed by association. It's never nice when you think you are doing a worthwhile job and then your mates pull the rug from under you by their stupid, thoughtless actions.
Colin
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A load of fuss over nothing.
I watched all 8+ minutes of it and all I could see was a harmless bit of fun put together by a talented person. I wonder how many lives were lost or shipwrecks there were whilst filming was taking place, none I bet.
Just college style humour, that modern phrase, 'Lighten up' springs to mind....
:-)
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Just college style humour
Quite, that's just what I said, but in an inappropriate context.
Unfortunately some people can't see that and then wonder why others are offended. They should examine their own attitudes. Which is why Charlie Gilmour is sitting in jail at the moment wondering why everyone hates him so much! If he'd swung from a tree rather than the Cenotaph people would probably just have laughed at him.
Colin
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Roll out the champagne and party poppers, I actually agree with something you've said ;) {-)
We all gathered round and watched it yesterday, and we all thought it was absolutely hilarious. How many here like the style of humour of Monty Python? That film wasn't far detatched from what they've done.....
Andy :-)
The content of the film is imaterial the problem is that if they were supposed to be on duty or not.
Dave
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I will have to say something contrary to what I said I wouldn't before... after so many comments about these lads/lasses bringing the organisation into disrepute
IF THE GENERAL PUBLIC KNEW THE AMOUNT OF WASTE that the RNLI achieves of the public's donations in any one year, they would certainly NOT BE BOTHERED ABOUT a film such as this, more where their hard earned donations go???.
If the public were aware of the chenanigans of the top brass in the RNLI and what their apparent waste of money costs the organisation they [the public] would be more concerned about this sort of behaviour bringing such a high profile charity organisation into disrepute than any film of young kids having a bit of fun on the beach............
And please, anyone, don't try and deny that this goes on...........I mean....sending a 7.5 tonne truck up from Poole to Fleetwood with one 2.5litre pot of blue paint on board ( and nothing else may I add......the truck was otherwise empty the whole trip....reason for the waste..the top brass in Poole apparently din't want a scratch on the Tyne for the up and coming lifeboat day in a week or so, and thought that it would be better to send in a truck than by postal service???) is a serious waste of funds.......and every one who is involved in the RNLI knows that this goes on!!! >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
So before we all dig ourselves into a deeper hole than has already been dug................I suggest that the RNLI looks towards it's own top brass before it sensures the minions for missapropriate behaviour!! <*< <*<
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Er werent they supposed to be at work or on duty? Was the equipment used in the film theirs or the RNLI's? It might be funny in the right context and everyone to their own sense of humour or fun but thats not the point. Anyone who supports what they have done and thinks it's a fuss over nothing, might have a different view if they were in business and ran an organisation and these people were there employees and took the proverbail out of their customers.
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if it hadnt been mentioned by the press, then lets be honest which of us would have 1) bothered looking at the vid and 2) giving a proverbial anyway
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All I'm bothered about is simply whether any of these people were supposed to be watching swimmers at the time?
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I have just watched the video. It is still online.
Pretty harmless really. In fact there was nothing that we could not have put in our end of term 6th form review (in 1975).
The Daily Mail realy over played the story. The talked about simulated sex. In reality you could easily miss it, and the players were acting as a pride of lions at the time.
The only real criticism I have, personally, is if they were filming when they should have been watching. However, I guess they were on standby and could easily have stopped filming if there was a call.
To condemn those concerned without seeing the video is falling right into the hands of the Daily Wail.
My 2 cents.
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To condemn those concerned without seeing the video is falling right into the hands of the Daily Wail.
My 2 cents.
here here TT.
If you are NOT prepared to watch the vid, then your comment cannot be taken seriously.Trial by tabloid comes to mind!! O0 O0 O0
neil.
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Nail on the head both TT and Neil.
I bet you remaining staff were on watch and this would be recorded just ouside the lifeguard station at all times... They are, after all, in lifeguard uniform :}
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You still seem to be missing the point guys. Whether the video was funny or whether you've watched it all yourself is irrelevant. It's the context that matters and it is that that has caused the controversy. As Mike Race correctly points out, what employer is going to tolerate their employees making this sort of video using the organisation's equipment as props (whether they were 'on duty' or not). Do that in most places and you would be out of the door like a shot for gross misconduct. Believe me, I've sen it happen. Why should the RNLI be any different in that respect?
As an aside, whether you personally find it funny is simply your opinion and doesn't automatically make it right. There are no doubt plenty of other people who would take the opposite view and they might think they are equally right.
When you re read this topic it's clear that there is an awful lot of woolly thinking going on with many people being unable to distinguish between their own opinions and an objective look at the circumstances and introducing all sorts of irrelevancies but I guess that is par for the course on Mayhem these days.... :((
Colin
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Id dare say top brass had seen it allready and would have probably chuckled themselves until an issue was brought up in the papers. But papers are like that arnt they, if nothing interesting is happening they print any old proverbial to fill up a collumn. Like i previously mentioned who of us wouldve even bothered even watching it if it wasnt raised on here?
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I disagree Colin but cant quite get my thoughts across in words neatly but having been in the Navy when a "crossing the line" video came to light in the media, this sort of thing does go on in these sorts of jobs where you put your life on the line, the stress of the job needs to be countered with some sort of high jinks, the brass know this and condone it I think (just not in public :} ). Obviously some things do cross the line (pun intended) and are usually dealt with internally. Joe public does not understand the stress and the need to relieve it so are quick to criticize.
Nick
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Have you watched it yourself Colin? Because if not, your opinion on the matter is not valid....
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Mike,
Yes the papers do misreport and blow up things out of proportion but that's what they do, and that is why people buy them because they like reading this sort of thing. People tend to buy the papers which most closely reflect and reinforce their own views and prejudices. However I rather doubt that the sort of people who head up the RNLI would have found this sort of humour particularly amusing, it's something most people grow out of. But by putting the video into the public domain the people responsible have practically invited the press in and shouldn't be too surprised at the consequences.
Nick,
You make a perfectly fair point that 'boys will be boys' (or girls) but I think it more of an age thing than down to the dangers of the job. The lifeguards undoubtedly do a good job (when they are lifeguarding) but I don't think that in the normal course of their duties they face anything like the hazards lifeboatmen or servicemen/women on active service do. Their job is a responsible one but I would doubt if they regard it as stressful, in fact I bet they enjoy most aspects of it a great deal.
Andy,
Go to the back of the class, you haven't been reading what I've been saying! <*< It isn't actually necessary to see the video to make the comments that I have. As it happens I did see a number of stills from it when I was Googling to see what reaction to it was and it's very clear just what it was about - been there, done that sort of thing many years ago. As others have said, just average juvenile schoolboy humour. Nothing the matter with that except the context in which it was done.
Colin
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Have you watched it yourself Colin? Because if not, your opinion on the matter is not valid....
colin does make a good point. At the end of the day there wasting time, not doing what there paid to do which is monitor peoples safety. If the rnli was privately funded it wouldnt matter but its paid for by taxes and donations and therefore has to keep it hands clean in the public image. However saying that if i had been offended by the video and then decided to go out swimming in a strong current, get into trouble i wouldnt say "how dare you come to my rescue your a disgrace and waste of tax payers money"
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I think Colin you'd better watch the video before casting an opinion.....
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Mike, the RNLI itself is 100% privately funded and receives no taxpayer's money directly. However, in the case of the lifeguards my understanding is that they are jointly funded by the RNLI and local authority with the latter meeting the wages cost and the RNLI most of the training and equipment costs so yes, there is some taxpayer funding in respect of that part of the service.
Colin
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Folks you don't need to watch the video to be able to make some comments (if you don't comment on it's content that is)
Generally and factually
1 The RNLI in response to the media (the media read by many of those who contribute cash) have had to issue a statement in relation to their employees actions. They are entitled to do that and to investigate the circumstances around the video.
2 There are plenty of instances where employers have sacked people for comments on made on social networking sites (comments not even made on the firms time) that the employer has simply seen as damaging to the business.
Personally
3. I'm a union rep' and I usually take the side of the employee and try to find some mitigation etc but I would find it hard to rep' someone who had put others in danger by larking around whilst they had a duty of care. However nobody seems to have a definitive answer as to whether they should have been watching swimmers - so until then how can anyone take a final stand on the issue?
Regards Norseman
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Nice to know that somebody largely seems to agree with me!
Colin
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Nice to know that somebody largely seems to agree with me!
Colin
I think my post # 25 just about agrees with you too Colin
Ned
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I think my post # 25 just about agrees with you too Colin
Ned
Yes, you are quite right of course - it just all seems to long ago.... %)
Colin