Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Ferry Across The Mersey on November 05, 2011, 07:07:30 pm
-
Hi All,
Just starting my rebuild of a scratch built MV Saint Germain Train Ferry originially built by a "Greenwood of Southport". Anyone heard of him? Below are a few photo's of the condition she's in now. I intend to get her back in the water as soon as possible.
(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/46579/2629908220061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2629908220061163969gQcqlk)
(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/50163/2032565720061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2032565720061163969OaXHNm)
(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/47453/2601176970061163969S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2601176970061163969VGjmmR)
(http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/15080/2418412280061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2418412280061163969ptNWnf)
(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/50124/2622058700061163969S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2622058700061163969EUXmFg)
Above is one of the original motors which still work. I'm going to try and use these, has anyone seen these before and if so am I wasting my time. Also, if they are OK to use what ESC's shall I use?
There's not much access to the hull as the decks are all fixed in place. The rudder has a rod protruding the rear deck. How can I add a servo to the rod?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Antony
-
Looks like a Taycol motor, sell it to a collector. Get a modern set-up with the proceeds. Interesting ship, did it take railway coaches on board ?
-
Hi Anthony - well, you have certainly piqued MY interest with this ferry!!!!
That is a very old scratch built model you have there - obviously built by someone who had 'an affinity' to the Saint Germain!!!!
From your photos, she seems pretty accurate in the overall look - what length is the model? The real ship's particulars were:
Builders - Helsingor Shipbuilding and Engineering Co. Denmark
Yard no - 303
Arrived Dunkerque - 24 July 1951
Entered service - 28 July 1951
Finished service - 16 May 1988
Length o/a - 115.73m
Beadth o/a - 18.47m
Draught molded - 4.12m
Gross tonnage - 3094 (3492 from 1976)
Deadweight - 1299 (1331 from 1976)
Call sign - FNXF
Passengers - 850 (1000 from 1976)
Capacity - 12 railway sleeping cars and 12 luggage vans or 36 rail goods wagons or 135 cars on the train deck, 25 cars in the upper garage.
Engines - 2 x 9 cylinder 2 stroke single acting B&W engines developing 6400hp
Service speed - 16.5kts
More details from an excellent book called 'Saint Germain - Vintage Train Ferry' by John Hendy (ISBN 0951350633) - usually available from Amazon.
Very best of luck with the refurb - good to see more ferry models in existance :-)) :-))
Definitely need a 'Ferry Meet' next year!!!
Carl
-
Looks like a Taycol motor, sell it to a collector. Get a modern set-up with the proceeds. Interesting ship, did it take railway coaches on board ?
Thanks for the tip. I'll certainly look into that. Yes, the Saint Germain took Southern Railway sleepers on board which I've ordered a couple. Apparently the carriages were chained to the deck which woke all the passengers up so not such a good idea.
Thanks Antony
-
Hi Anthony - well, you have certainly piqued MY interest with this ferry!!!!
That is a very old scratch built model you have there - obviously built by someone who had 'an affinity' to the Saint Germain!!!!
From your photos, she seems pretty accurate in the overall look - what length is the model? The real ship's particulars were:
Builders - Helsingor Shipbuilding and Engineering Co. Denmark
Yard no - 303
Arrived Dunkerque - 24 July 1951
Entered service - 28 July 1951
Finished service - 16 May 1988
Length o/a - 115.73m
Beadth o/a - 18.47m
Draught molded - 4.12m
Gross tonnage - 3094 (3492 from 1976)
Deadweight - 1299 (1331 from 1976)
Call sign - FNXF
Passengers - 850 (1000 from 1976)
Capacity - 12 railway sleeping cars and 12 luggage vans or 36 rail goods wagons or 135 cars on the train deck, 25 cars in the upper garage.
Engines - 2 x 9 cylinder 2 stroke single acting B&W engines developing 6400hp
Service speed - 16.5kts
More details from an excellent book called 'Saint Germain - Vintage Train Ferry' by John Hendy (ISBN 0951350633) - usually available from Amazon.
Very best of luck with the refurb - good to see more ferry models in existance :-)) :-))
Definitely need a 'Ferry Meet' next year!!!
Carl
Hi Carl,
She's 1.14m long. Yes, I've ordered that book, got quite a shock when I found it on ebay.
Regarding changing the motors for a more modern set up, what would you all recommend and how would you go about separating the deck from the hull as it seems very well attached right now and obviously wasn't intended to take apart? I don't want to destroy this gentleman's hard work. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks Antony
-
Thanks Antony, you might find this useful www.taycol.hobby-site.com Would this be the ship that carried the famous Golden Arrow train ? Are there rails on the deck, if so the gauge would give the scale of the model, OO or more likely N gauge.
-
Hi Arrow5,
Below is a sleeper carriage I've ordered:
(http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/images/Ferry/SLF1.jpg)
The power of the Internet strikes again with another fantastic site regarding the night trains: http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/ferry.htm
I don't know anything about the Golden Arrow train but I'll have a search about that too. Thanks for the link, I've emailed a photo of the motor over as I couldn't find any photo's of Taycol's that were an exact match.
The ship has rails on the deck at that are 20mm apart. As I don't have any railway wagons anymore I don't know what scale that makes it but I hope it's near to 1/87 as that's the scale of the sleepers.
Thanks Antony
-
Antony - the scale of your model is as close to 1:100 as makes no difference..
real ship 115m long : model 1.14m long = 1:100 (or just over by a gnats...)
Unfortunately, there are no commercial rail wagon available at that scale. The closest would be TT at 1:120 - but that is almost as equally too small compared as HO at 1:87 would be too large!! N scale at 1:160 would be even worse!!!>:-o >:-o
Sorry friend - but it looks like you would have to scratch build your own %% %%
Carl
-
That is useful info Carl. I thought that maybe the builder had built the ship to suit existing rail models. There is a Wikipedia page on the Golden Arrow train which was often hauled by a "Merchant Navy" class locomotive appropriately. Pullman coaches would be another colour scheme. The Wagon Lits coaches were much darker blue than in the photograph. This will be an interesting re-build. Yes to a Ferry Meeting :-))
-
You can see a modern(-ish) rail-ferry in operation on the Istanbul to Tehran Trans Asia rail route (3000 km) at Tatvan. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFHMu69Fns&feature=related Interesting videos.
-
Antony - the scale of your model is as close to 1:100 as makes no difference..
real ship 115m long : model 1.14m long = 1:100 (or just over by a gnats...)
Unfortunately, there are no commercial rail wagon available at that scale. The closest would be TT at 1:120 - but that is almost as equally too small compared as HO at 1:87 would be too large!! N scale at 1:160 would be even worse!!!>:-o >:-o
Sorry friend - but it looks like you would have to scratch build your own %% %%
Carl
Hi Carl,
Thanks for info, that's the scale I got it too as well. I'll see what the carriages look like once I get them as they are only cheap. I can use them for a photo shoot if not on board. There is a scale 1/100 but that seems to mainly loco's only or military kits. Maybe I will build one or 2 myself but that will be much later on. I'll post some photo's once they arrive to see what you think.
You can see a modern(-ish) rail-ferry in operation on the Istanbul to Tehran Trans Asia rail route (3000 km) at Tatvan. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFHMu69Fns&feature=related Interesting videos.
Hi Arrow5, great videos, the first one seems to have gone through a riot as a load of windows have been broken.
Thanks Antony
-
Yes I noticed the broken windows {:-{ wonder what happened. Did you get the PM ?
-
Sorry no PM received. The only PM I've had is the Welcome one.
Thanks Antony
-
How about hiding a rudder servo in a carriage/truck on the deck?
-
How about hiding a rudder servo in a carriage/truck on the deck?
Not a bad idea. See the photo's below as I've manged to get the top deck off without causing too much damage. The rudder shaft is encased in the hull so there's no way I want to disturb that so I think I will add the servo arm on the surface and as rmaddock suggest hide it some way in a carriage/truck.
(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/48841/2207538210061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2207538210061163969XzrxPJ)
(http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/48314/2646362400061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2646362400061163969PIbnbW)
(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/50013/2993377560061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2993377560061163969OTKSeY)
Above are the 2 prop tubes. The old props shafts were 3mm in diameter. I'm thinking of using either the Torpedo 400 or 500 in this. Which would you recommend? Also which is the best retailer?
(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/46979/2131978580061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2131978580061163969SZrcqr)
First I'm going to strip and sand the hull down ready for re-painting. What primer & paint do you guys use?
Thanks Antony
-
NICE PROJECT! I shall be watching this one.
Ali.
-
Interesting. I didn't know they had this style of ferry over on your side of the Pond. I know there were a bunch on Lake Michigan up to the 1950's and one still operating as a road vehicle ferry.
-
For a Canada check the www.justferries.de site. His trip to the northern fringe of Canada this year is a beauty, no trains though but what a welcome. A curious mix of old and new is his "Puttgarden to Rodby" (Germany to Denmark) in 1989 featuring the Inter City Express (ICE) high speed train coming and going off and on the ferry. All this and more on youtube of course.
-
We still have one train ferry still operating on the English Channel - but for how much longer? Who Knows.......
The SeaFrance Nord Pas de Calais...............although she hasn't been used as a train ferry for many years...
Carl
-
Antony, try to contact BrianC on this forum regarding renovation of your model. He has been renovating an old static model of RMS Mauretania with all the same sort of problems you might have regarding paint and so on. Modern techniques might not be compatible , old glues and paint might be best. I have no knowledge of best size of motors sorry. The type of construction used is called "bread and butter", find out if the layers were pinned or nailed as well as glued. Probably used Cascamite resin glue. Looking at the rudder tube, would be easy to cut clearance in the solid part to the rear , reduce height and add rudder horn to a reduced shaft then everything including servo would be under the deck.
-
A Sketch to show what I meant in previous post.
-
Antony, try to contact BrianC on this forum regarding renovation of your model. He has been renovating an old static model of RMS Mauretania with all the same sort of problems you might have regarding paint and so on. Modern techniques might not be compatible , old glues and paint might be best. I have no knowledge of best size of motors sorry. The type of construction used is called "bread and butter", find out if the layers were pinned or nailed as well as glued. Probably used Cascamite resin glue. Looking at the rudder tube, would be easy to cut clearance in the solid part to the rear , reduce height and add rudder horn to a reduced shaft then everything including servo would be under the deck.
Thanks for the info and the diagram. I'll look into this and let you know. The diagram is superb. I've seen Brian's renovation of the Mauritania and she looks fantastic. I'll try and ask him a few questions later.
Thanks Antony
-
Seen this Antony?
http://hhvferry.com/saintgermain_dpx.jpg
Deck plans from 1973......
Excellent website..........
Carl
-
Hi Carl,
Wow!! Didn't expect that. I've seen that website before but always seem to get directed to the blog and not the actual www. Fantastic find that will help me no end.
Thanks Antony
-
After quite a bit of stripping, sanding, filling she's finally getting a coat of primer. Not as smooth as I would have liked but she is old and I suppose the real thing wasn't like glass anyway. Lots of ideas including making her travel/storage cradle into some sort of diorama. More of that soon..............
(http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/47014/2726585000061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2726585000061163969dMLYEL)
(http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/50013/2077225950061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2077225950061163969JGbnOs)
(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/47756/2568957050061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2568957050061163969VMUgRo)
Thanks Antony
-
HI Antony. I just want to make sure you've seen this book on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150691707022?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4920wt_997
-
HI Antony. I just want to make sure you've seen this book on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150691707022?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_4920wt_997
Thanks for the link. Yes, I got that book last week. Some great info and photo's too. I'm going to start on the new train deck next week as I want to lay metal rails into the deck like the real thing. I've now decided to use HO scale CIWL carriages as these are readily available and a bit smaller than the OO ones. I've also got to alter the rear of the ferry to accommodate the lowered rail loading ramp. While trawling the net for more info and photo's I can across the following on another forum:
(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/48993/2119290510061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2119290510061163969ZFYUYs)
(http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/49567/2395725760061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2395725760061163969DzeZjQ)
(http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/20251/2731711290061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2731711290061163969VOZwgi)
(http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/48101/2869802840061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2869802840061163969ZaIKnk)
I really like the scratch built loading ramp gantry, superb. More photo's of my build next week.
Thanks Antony
-
Some old picture of the train ferry dock at Dover...............
Carl
-
I might get that book for myself know you've got one already. It may come in handy.
Using HO scale stock is a good idea, it's more to scale anyway. Looking forward to seeing the photos.
Ali.
-
Just a quick update:
I've managed to get the rudder gear under the deck. Starting on the installation of the new motors and the new props. Can anyone confirm that the photo below is correct? After looking at a few old threads I believe the props turn outwards away from each other.
(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/48619/2346348830061163969S500x500Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2346348830061163969BGUJSn)
I haven't sanded the stern yet as I've got to cut a section out to allow for the loading ramp.
Thanks Antony
-
Looking good Antony. The port side prop will usually turn anti-clockwise for forward thrust and starboard is Visa-versa.
Ali.
-
Excellent, the scale of the rolling stock looks OK to me. I think the inset rail would be double rails ie the running rail with an inner guide rail.
-
Thanks for the replies.
Placed a printed sheet of the wording that goes along the side which I've got to cut out to use as a stencil.
(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/46996/2403191450061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2403191450061163969NnbYGS)
One of the CIWL carriages actually has the correct Paris London board on the side:
(http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/46647/2379789010061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2379789010061163969zzloDT)
The rest of them:
(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/48279/2120985480061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2120985480061163969FApdDA)
Next to install the motors, esc's props & batteries. I'll post some photo's and a video when I'm happy with the set up.
Thanks Antony
-
This is looking excellent Antony - a real credit to you :-)) :-))
I have just acquired an artists print of the Saint Germain leaving Dover by the western entrance - PM me your email addy and I will drop over a scan of it in the new year......
Carl
-
Hi Anthony
I've been reading your thread. I really like to see restorations and I am enjoying yours. I see you are only 'over the water', I am in not far away in Huyton.
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
I used to live in Roby not too far from you. Once I get my ship ready for the water I'll be popping over to either New Brighton or Hoylake boating lakes for a run if it's not too cold. Where to do do your boating?
Thanks Antony
-
Hi Anthony
Yes Roby's close by - I'm just over on St John's. Land of the free...................... er unless it's well nailed down.
I'm only just getting into boats so I am doing some refurbing and asking everyone and his dog for advice.
The dogs have been really helpful {-) it's the owners that are barking mad O0 It's a fifties Hales Spraymaster
I am working on now but mostly I like ferries and that's what I will build soon..... The Kalakala, Art Deco 1935.
Lakes near me are Taylors park St Helens (that's big) and Victoria park Widnes. Newsham park is pretty near too.
I have seen New Brighton on the web - is it bigger than it looks? Huntsman I saw on it looked caged, but that is a
beast of a fast boat.
Dave
-
Hi Anthony
How is the work coming along? Worth an update yet?
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
Sorry it's been a while. Back on the build now, hopefully until she finished. Been working on the signage and decided on printing my own decals. First off is the "Sealink":
(http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/50050/2848133810061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2848133810061163969wvHobF)
(http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/49843/2861425180061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2861425180061163969VsnVCb)
(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/49476/2392225640061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2392225640061163969VnUYsh)
Next will be her name for and aft. I've decided to have a go at printing these in a light grey as I don't know how to print "White". Should stand out against the dark background.
More soon, Antony
-
Nice to see you back on the build Antony
I do like this subject too.
Dave
-
Original motor you show is the "Frog Revmaster". Operating voltage 4 - 6V with a max of 8V. Stall current 1 - 1.3Amps and 0.6A running at 4000 Revs on 6V. Max efficiency is 45%
Regards Ian.
-
Looking great so far Antony.
Ali
-
Hi Dave,
Next will be her name for and aft. I've decided to have a go at printing these in a light grey as I don't know how to print "White". Should stand out against the dark background.
White can be 'printed' by putting white text over a coloured background. The big problem is matching the background to the paint on the boat. I recommend white vinyl characters from Becc or Barry's lettering.
-
The problem is that printers do not print white. They will print yellow or light grey but it has to printed on white paper but as dougal99 said it is difficult to match the printed background with the paint colour. However on black it shouldn't be too hard
You can get white decal paper from craftycomputerpaper.com. Waterslide or rub on types are available. The rub on type is very good.
Ali
-
Thanks for the help with the white lettering. I'm popping to my local model shop to see what they've got. The "Grey" lettering didn't work, surprise, surprise.
Finally got round to making her stand. Started on the rail deck and started cleaning her decks. Trouble with old models is all the glue previously used is very brittle and all the planks come off when sanding. Getting into all the corners will be a problem now my Dremel has packed in.
(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/49339/2506166150061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2506166150061163969zDQhwH)
(http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/49029/2998143470061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2998143470061163969aPjIzb)
(http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/49898/2179081520061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2179081520061163969sPJAVR)
(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/47235/2995021320061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2995021320061163969BgUTbU)
(http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/49490/2079468940061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2079468940061163969EPTvEw)
(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/42092/2388491420061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2388491420061163969Ypaogc)
(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/44490/2858134580061163969S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2858134580061163969IuOCkP)
Thanks Antony