Model Boat Mayhem

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 12:36:54 AM

Title: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 12:36:54 AM
Hi I'm new to the forum and to model boats also.

As a child we had this model boat that we would take to the boating lake, set the rudder to a mild turn and pray it came back. It had been made years before by my grandfathers mate and given to my mum.
for many years i have been harassing my mum and dad for the boat as it has not seen daylight since i was about 8 years old but they wouldn't let me have it but out of the blue my mum offered it to me one visit to there home.

i dint think i can type my exact words when i saw the state of it but I'm sure you get the idea, take a look at this!

(http://s7.postimage.org/df3ej8h6v/Photo0603.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/df3ej8h6v/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/hff597x1j/Photo0604.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hff597x1j/)

so after a good clean i decided it needed a lot of work.
I spent days and days searching the net before i found out what this model was meant to be. I found a pic of fairey swordsman, found the fairey owners club and realised its meant to be a huntsman 28!
The bloke who built it has made a few adjustments of his own which I'm putting right like the windscreen and side windows are totally different so i have cut the side windows off inline with the rest of the side, the windscreen has been totally stripped away inc all the bodged surround he made. The roof was uneven and covered in a rough artex type coating and was almost spikey! this has been sanded smooth and had remaining pitting filled. ripped off the air vents on the roof, errm they are meant to be on a old ship not a power cruiser lol.
The general finish to the paintwork was awful, everything was hand painted and had brush marks in it and the hull bottom was full of lumps, bubbles and grit. the whole boat has been sanded with the exception of the deck, i am going to leave it as it is.
the rudder was missing, i found it in two halves inside the boat, i have drilled a larger hole, made a fiberglass mount and installed a new one.The propshaft was handmade and warped and the tube was worn, had no bushes and was generally useless, i have ripped that out and waiting on a new one to arrive in the post. Ive filled many many cracks dents and general imperfections all over the boat made a new fibergass surround for the front screen.
here are pics of the boat in progress-

(http://s9.postimage.org/ibq8ljowr/IMAG0384.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ibq8ljowr/)

the roof with its lovely coating of spikes! the corner with the crack fell off and got re molded with filler

(http://s9.postimage.org/ioi4yn0m3/IMAG0451.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ioi4yn0m3/)

after rubbing it down and filling, the odd bit need a final fill still.

(http://s8.postimage.org/i9g1x3tg1/IMAG0407.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/i9g1x3tg1/)

The cabin sides after sanding all the varnish off.

(http://s12.postimage.org/uv4dcegeh/IMAG0435.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/uv4dcegeh/)

windscreen totally gone along with any associated fixings, also the funnels removed and fiberglass behind holes ready for filling


(http://s9.postimage.org/buq7rx1i3/IMAG0468.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/buq7rx1i3/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/hwxuiepy3/IMAG0469.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hwxuiepy3/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/5jl0bi09n/IMAG0470.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5jl0bi09n/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/6bnoap4gr/IMAG0472.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6bnoap4gr/)

The new fiberglass windscreen surround was very time consuming as it has to be molded in about 10 stages to create the right size and curve, it has a 1mm gap all the way round to seat the front of the screen for support, the screen is going to be a one piece job from side window to side window in 0.8mm clear plastic. you can also see how i have cut the old wooden side screen surround away inline with the rest ready to take the correct screen.

(http://s12.postimage.org/5ny2pw2o9/IMAG0403.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5ny2pw2o9/)

The awfull brushmarks that haunted the whole boat.


(http://s10.postimage.org/sxgjgqyd1/IMAG0417.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sxgjgqyd1/)

Hull bottom before sanding, the white specks are bits of grit or similar that must have got into the paint when it was wet. cant understand why he went to so much effort to build this and then left it with paint like this!

(http://s7.postimage.org/y7xjiwsuf/IMAG0467.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y7xjiwsuf/)

new rudder hole gets a fiberglass surround, the drill bit is just there to mold the right size hole in the resin, the main hole was already drilled.

(http://s9.postimage.org/igpwoe09n/IMAG0476.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/igpwoe09n/)

fiberglass sanded into shape and new rudder fitted.

Well, thats my progress so far.
I have a new propshaft and tube on order and have filler primer waiting to coat this when its ready. the roof is going to be white, the cabin side will be very dark blue or black and the hull is going to be white all over.

I really want this boat to fly like some of the other huntsman models i have seen on here but due to being unable to work and living on benefits i have serious money restrictions so please don't laugh at the following, i have a futaba 27MHz receiver I'm going to fit with a kyosho manual yes  "manual" speed controller! and acoms as-5s servos to controll rudder and speed controller. as for the motor to power the prop, i have a couple of motors but think the best i have is a new rs540sh taken from my sons tamiya as we upgraded his motor when we built his RC car. I have a watercooled O.S 40 nitro boat engine with good compression but I'm nervous about fitting it to this boat as A they make a mess. B they cannot reverse. C they can stall and D i need to get a part for the carb or a new carb before i can use it.
I'm still not decided on RC car packs or gel cells for power.
not having any money to spend on this project is a killer but at least the biggest part is hard work and love for it and the money side is only to make it go.

So, what do you all think? Ive renovated all sorts of tired objects before but never a boat and really looking forward to playing with it.

Thanks for reading, Steve.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 11, 2011, 12:54:26 AM
Have a look at red181 s re build of this boat you may get some ideas as far as re painting if the boat has bad pait strip it all off try Fairey power spray works well they are a very nice boat take care with the prop shaft position and angle, it is important the original build plans I feel got it slightley wrong and it should have been less of an angle and the prop and rudder further back.
it builds in to a realy nice boat , I dont know what area you are in but IC can be a problem so find out first.
this is the build
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=21584.msg338759#msg338759

Peter
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Shipmate60 on December 11, 2011, 01:09:00 AM
Steve,
There is nothing wrong with a resistance type "manual" controller.
This type of model will be going full ahead most of the time so as long as the contacts are kept clean and in good condition there will be negligible power losses.
I still use 1 of these for my trials board and happily run 2 x 540's on it.
As for a prop try a 38mm plastic 2 blade and use 1 of the buggy packs for power.
If you are happy using  battery packs lower than the current max these can be sourced quite cheaply and as you already have a charger shouldn't cost much to get her running reasonably.

Bob
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 11, 2011, 01:11:07 AM
Hi Steve

Yes Red181's is a beast you should check out. You have the boats in this Bond film then - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46-YybZCxJk.

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 11, 2011, 01:13:00 AM
dave ,thats a Huntress in the film.

Peter
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 01:19:44 AM
thanks for the comments and advice everyone, will post as i make progress.

Ive had a look at reds boat, wow! what a great lot of love hes put into that and theres money spent on that, lots of money! The detail is incredible and although not beyond my ablilty, well beyond my budget. im going to go for as clean as possible whilst keeping it reasonably simple

The bond film had both huntress and huntsmans in it, bond drives a huntress and is chased by huntsmans

Not too far from you btw shipmate, im sailsbury.
 
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 11, 2011, 01:30:00 AM
I think you will find there where huntress chassing as well, as one was, and may still be up for sale.

Peter
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 01:36:46 AM
I learnt about the boat being in the film through reading on the fairey owners club.  They say both huntress and huntsman were used in the film, i have seen the clip a couple of times although it wouldent play this time grrr but cant remember from sight what i saw, only what the owners club said.  im sure you lot have come accross it already but heres it is anyway if not   

www.faireyownersclub.co.uk

helped me untold when it came to working out what boat i had and they have many many pics on there that can be used for detail reference even drawings of each model on from a side view.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 11, 2011, 01:38:12 AM
from the site

The Huntress and the Huntsman 28's claim to fame were in the James Bond movie 'From Russia with Love'. This involved a total of 5 boats, 2 Huntsman 28's, 1 long cabin Huntress and 2 normal Huntresses. James Bond's boat was a Huntress fitted with a V8 Interceptor

Peter
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 01:41:27 AM
ahhh, so i was sort of right and you were also right about being chased by huntress boats also he he
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 11, 2011, 02:25:19 AM
Ha ha, I am so used to being wrong I just never question it  O0 {-) {-)

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 02:47:07 AM
no dave you were right not wrong, there are huntsmans in the film!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 11, 2011, 03:01:56 AM
Hi Steve

I picked this up a fortnight ago for 30 - needs lots of work but I thought the price was ok for a Precedent Huntsman c1972 and I need some practise anyway.

Dave
(http://s7.postimage.org/pzsftu2vb/Precedent_34_inch_Huntsman_002.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pzsftu2vb/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/jfio9s2xn/Precedent_34_inch_Huntsman_005.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jfio9s2xn/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: gwa84 on December 11, 2011, 03:06:55 AM
i could do you a swap for the os 40 engine i have a nice groupner speed 700 terbo and 50 amp speed controler that would realy make her move well  also got a nearly new  8.4 cell batery pack i could throw in aswell

with that set up you shouldent be short of pawer  :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 12:43:11 PM
NORSEMAN, thats not a bad base to be working with, great find for £30 as in that condition it would fetch in excess of £100 on ebay

GWA, thanks for the offer im def interested but cant help thinking i would be getting more than i would be giving, i made a mistake about the brand of engine it is not O.S it is a O.P.S lump although i do belive that there ment to be good themselves. its got good compression but is pretty old and like i said needs a new bit in the carb (needle housing and needle) or a whole new carb to run. i was going to fit it ro my rc car along with a radiator fan and waterpump at one point but decided not to in the end. I will get some pics of it for you and
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: gwa84 on December 11, 2011, 01:41:35 PM
ive got plenty of sper carbs that should fit it i was affter a .40 engine enyway for a curant progect dont worry about it if you think its not a fer deal as long as you can use the parts ang get the boat running that wouild be cool with me
i know what its like doing this hobby on a next to nothing shoo  string as ime on disbility benafits that realy dont strech so its taken me menny years of collecting and bargen hunting the main way to get the things i need is to trade the things i dont need  :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 02:11:26 PM
OK, like i said to GWA, i was mistaken about the brand of engine i have, its is not a O.S but a O.P.S lump. its not been used for at least 15 years as that is when i acquired it and all i have done since is fire it up brief few seconds then its been knocking about since. when i moved home the needle valve and the shaft it sat in got broken, not the end of the world but a pain. I think it would probably be easier to get a new carb for it than trying to find the right parts for the carb. the o ring seal between the carb and inlet manifold leaked but thats just a old seal gone bad and Penny's to put right. If you look at the side that reads O.P.S and look at where the the crank cover meets the crank casing you can see the bottom bolt area has had a repair done (was like this when i got the lump), this appears to be heat and fuel resistant so as it is airtight, and the bolt is gripping metal behind it and its also not a load bearing area, i cannot see it being a problem. the other Thing i have noticed is the head bolts do not seem to be the right ones although they are the correct thread. these could probably do with being replaced with some Allen bolts with washers, again A minor little thing to do. The important things are ok, its got compression, the crankshaft bearings have no play and run smoothly.

Here are some pics of the engine, funny how cameras make things look worse, its looks nowhere near as dirty to the eye but nothing a good clean cant sort.


(http://s10.postimage.org/kzmo9jr05/IMAG0478.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/kzmo9jr05/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/4sgdthjzp/IMAG0479.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4sgdthjzp/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/x6ltdd7jp/IMAG0481.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x6ltdd7jp/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/7gafhl2et/IMAGE_482.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/7gafhl2et/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/5d009x2lx/IMAGE_483.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5d009x2lx/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/dxtc13cs5/IMAGE_484.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dxtc13cs5/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 03:57:13 PM
As for a prop try a 38mm plastic 2 blade

Shipmate / Bob, you said try a 2 blade 38mm plastic prop.
check this out lol, its what was on the boat originally!
I remember as i child the prop slowed massively, almost to a chug when it hit the water. it had a huge amount of pull but no speed to it although the motor is from the 60's or 70's and should be in a museum so its allowed to be weak to some degree.

would this be measured as 60mm?!!!! In any case a think a 3 blade brass prop of that size is going to be pretty hard work to turn and the weight of it is going to act like a flywheel slowing acceleration and and the same lag when you come off the throttle.


(http://s8.postimage.org/pizx8xdqp/IMAG0486.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pizx8xdqp/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 11, 2011, 05:00:52 PM
ive just been reading through. im out of work myself so i know what its like to build with no money, can be done though!

the propeller is 50mm. you start to measure from zero not one. In the case of the picture put the side of the prop against the ten and you will find it says 15 on the other side.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 05:06:18 PM
ive just been reading through. im out of work myself so i know what its like to build with no money, can be done though!

the propeller is 50mm. you start to measure from zero not one. In the case of the picture put the side of the prop against the ten and you will find it says 15 on the other side.

lol, what a stupid mistake to make, i cant believe i did that, my excuse is im on nicoteen patches and there just not cutting it so my brain is in another place ha ha.
in any case the prop is far to big is it not?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 11, 2011, 05:16:40 PM
yeah i thought it was odd  {-) from the work youve done so far i was suprised to see you werent able to operate a ruler %%

I would say yes the prop is too big for a 540 motor. i got a 540 motor and it runs hot on a 35mm prop with a 7.2nimh. So i dare say it will smoke on that big brass one. If gwa is still offering you that 700 with the 50 amp esc your on a winner.

I just want to point out that mechanical speed controllers do not shut down if there is a signal loss. So heaven forbid you drop your transmitter and the batts pop out, Your servos will not return to centre and the boat will go full tilt into the nearest hard place.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 05:32:41 PM

I just want to point out that mechanical speed controllers do not shut down if there is a signal loss. So heaven forbid you drop your transmitter and the batts pop out, Your servos will not return to centre and the boat will go full tilt into the nearest hard place.

Lol, ive had that happen with my nitro RC car, it does not do anything but continue on its way.
Ive been on full throttle a couple of times and gone out of range, biggest roll ive ever seen he he.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 11, 2011, 05:39:57 PM
lol well with a car you can just walk over and pick it up. a boat its a bit more difficult  :D

what diameter prop shaft have you ordered?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 05:54:01 PM
4mm inner with 8mm outer
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Shipmate60 on December 11, 2011, 06:02:00 PM
Steve,
If you are running a 540 you need revs not torque (power).
I am running a PT 15 (just under 3 foot long) on a single 540 on 8.4 volts with a 38mm 2 blade prop and she gets the first 2/3 out of the water on the plane.
She is built quite light though, but a bit too quick for the hull as on turns she "falls over" and the shoulder digs in quite a bit.
But on your hull and being a bit heavier it should give good performance.
These 540 motors can pull an awful lot of amps if loaded up with too big a prop.
As a rough guide the stall current can be as high as in the 90 amps region!!
The 600 motors are fairly similar.

Bob
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 11, 2011, 06:26:48 PM
Steve,
If you are running a 540 you need revs not torque (power).
I am running a PT 15 (just under 3 foot long) on a single 540 on 8.4 volts with a 38mm 2 blade prop and she gets the first 2/3 out of the water on the plane.
She is built quite light though, but a bit too quick for the hull as on turns she "falls over" and the shoulder digs in quite a bit.
But on your hull and being a bit heavier it should give good performance.
These 540 motors can pull an awful lot of amps if loaded up with too big a prop.
As a rough guide the stall current can be as high as in the 90 amps region!!
The 600 motors are fairly similar.

Bob

when you say it falls over to you mean that centrifugal forces cause the body to start to lean right when your turning left?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: gwa84 on December 12, 2011, 12:36:28 AM
if your up for the swop that motors fine for what i need it for send us a pm with your adress if its a yes   :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Shipmate60 on December 12, 2011, 12:43:00 AM
Steve,
What happens is the boat is balanced on the prop and only a tiny part of the hull which can't support it in a turn so it effectively "falls over" and the front end connects with the water.
My next one will have 2 shafts which should correct this as on a single shaft the rear hull is supporting the weight of the boat which is fine in a straight line but when turning the forces change and the small rear hull cant support the weight of the boat in the turn.

Bob
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 12, 2011, 02:00:02 AM
ahhh, i see.
does it also create understeer when that happens?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 12, 2011, 08:39:03 AM
i can vouch for the fact that these models handle much better on twin shafts and motors , as they dont " fall over " when trying to turn , both my huntsman 31 and current spear project have got short shafts with the motors fitted in the correct postion below the side air intakes which work very well , the 31 is currently running a pair of mmd 777 and will soon be on 11.1 volt lipo battery packs , while the spear is on a brushless set up but still under construction . jon
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 12, 2011, 08:53:05 AM
Steve,
If you are running a 540 you need revs not torque (power).
I am running a PT 15 (just under 3 foot long) on a single 540 on 8.4 volts with a 38mm 2 blade prop and she gets the first 2/3 out of the water on the plane.
She is built quite light though, but a bit too quick for the hull as on turns she "falls over" and the shoulder digs in quite a bit.
But on your hull and being a bit heavier it should give good performance.
These 540 motors can pull an awful lot of amps if loaded up with too big a prop.
As a rough guide the stall current can be as high as in the 90 amps region!!
The 600 motors are fairly similar.

Bob

what weight is your boat Bob ?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 12, 2011, 09:08:05 AM
seeing as gwa is willing to swap then you might aswell do so. Id recomend using this prop to its m4 screw thread. trusting your current propshaft has that right??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MODEL-BOAT-PROPELLER-2-Blade-X-40mm-M4-Thread-/190587554943?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2c5fe74c7f
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 12, 2011, 09:26:09 AM
seeing as gwa is willing to swap then you might aswell do so. Id recomend using this prop to its m4 screw thread. trusting your current propshaft has that right??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MODEL-BOAT-PROPELLER-2-Blade-X-40mm-M4-Thread-/190587554943?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2c5fe74c7f

what on a 700bb ? it will run for a short time and get very hot ,ther s540sh need very small props as bob says about 35mm.  Have you run one of these on a  700bb motor ? we ended up having to gear one to get any run time and to get any speed had to use  21 volts. the Veron Huntsman is very Heavey , when built they had ic's in and weight was not a problem.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 12, 2011, 10:01:40 AM
i run my swordsman with a 700 on 12v nimhs through mtronicks speed controller plus water cooling pushing a 42mm prop with a run time of about 10 to 15 mins no problems
(http://s9.postimage.org/j4qktoesr/P6020052.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j4qktoesr/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/59ckpddhr/P6020050.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/59ckpddhr/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on December 12, 2011, 10:32:24 AM
Your Swordsman is 33" long the huntsman is 42"  11" different also they are very heavy so have to have a lot more volts to make them move so a 40 mm prop makes them hot, a 700 on 12v in a 42" huntsman is only a fast walking pace look through you tube and on hear even with the light weight precedent boats.

Peter
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 12, 2011, 11:00:34 AM
well i reckoned a 700bb turbo and 50 amp esc is better than a 540 on a mechanical speed controller. what would you recommend then?

35mm prop?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 12, 2011, 12:43:40 PM
bat44, i love your fordspeed huntsman. have you seen the  909 fordspeed by Ramon? http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14357.100
Almost identical to yours, Ive toyed with paining the deck on mine many times because of this boat! really like the colour scheme and graphics these boats had but i also have a love of fords so that swings it a little lol.
In the end Ive decided to keep the deck as it is and going to paint the boat in the colours of "Jane of Portsmouth"  heres a pic of it-
(http://s7.postimage.org/gz16xpiqv/huntsman28_good_pic.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gz16xpiqv/)

what sort of speed are you getting out of your 700 motor and what sort of drive and prop do you use?? I'm going to go with it anyway as i have no money and its my best option right now till i can flog something for brushless.
Is your boat scratch built by you or one of the older ones like min that are meant to be heavier? I haven't put it on scales but my boat without motor or battery is surprisingly light in my opinion so i may be in luck.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: gwa84 on December 12, 2011, 01:40:21 PM
hi the motor is a speed 700 turbo 9.6v  the only other number on is best-nr. 3308   the speed controler is an mtroniks supermarine sonik 3 50amp utp 12 volt
and the batery is jp energ pro
ive put a male xt60 conector and a couple of 6mm shrink wrap in so you can change the batery conectors to mach the esc thers also a water cooling coil and mount on the motor  :-))

 
(http://s10.postimage.org/5zhgj8bk5/100_1437.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5zhgj8bk5/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/xcr8rq7id/100_1438.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xcr8rq7id/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/j8vdjc0at/100_1439.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j8vdjc0at/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 12, 2011, 01:47:18 PM
Hey Steve

Ramon never finished that boat, he hasn't touched it in ages. He tells me he has been making model deisel engines for a while now. Pity, but maybe he will dig it out and finish it one day?

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 12, 2011, 02:23:38 PM
hi the motor is a speed 700 turbo 9.6v  the only other number on is best-nr. 3308   the speed controler is an mtroniks supermarine sonik 3 50amp utp 12 volt
and the batery is jp energ pro
ive put a male xt60 conector and a couple of 6mm shrink wrap in so you can change the batery conectors to mach the esc thers also a water cooling coil and mount on the motor  :-))

Hi james, thanks for that, will post engine tomorrow royal mail recorded.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 12, 2011, 03:12:16 PM
hi Steve my swordsman was obtained when a fellow boater past away and the club was given some of his models.the boat was in a bad way much the same as yours, with years off old paint and some rotton wood plus castermite over the deck and a prop shaft that was stuck fast. I am using the speed 700 turbo 9.6 motor direct drive water cooled,through a 25amp Mtroniks speed controller pushing a 42mm 2 blade racing prop.Power is from a single 12v 3900 nimh pack, this gives me a realistic turn of speed for about 10-15 mins.The ford decals were fond on the good old interweb then printed of onto paper then stuck on the boat using double sided tape then varnished over to make them water prove. Yes i have seen and read Ramon's posts on his boat. Being unemployed as will its not easy doing any type of boat so just take your time, what i will say is re angle your prop shaft to a lesser angle this will help with the power consumption    
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 12, 2011, 03:45:47 PM
so why was my recommendation of a 700bb turbo, 8.4 bat and 40mm 2 blade prop wrong?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 12, 2011, 04:14:52 PM
so why was my recommendation of a 700bb turbo, 8.4 bat and 40mm 2 blade prop wrong?

i think people recon that prop is too big, personally i have no idea myself.
how ever it performs with that motor esc and batt, its going to be better than a stock tamiya car motor mechanical speed controller and 7.2 nicad!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 12, 2011, 04:44:38 PM
BAT44,

Ive got the shaft 25mm from the hull at the tip and i suppose the angle is a little bit steep and it could do with being further back from the rudder but I'm not sure how easy it would be to re angle my propshaft, its a wooden hull with no room to play with inside without performing major surgery to the internal structure

(http://s11.postimage.org/nxxgw0n0v/IMAG0487.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/nxxgw0n0v/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/94itb9f9r/IMAG0488.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/94itb9f9r/)
current propshaft and motor locations.

(http://s11.postimage.org/mpe6o4kgf/IMAG0489.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mpe6o4kgf/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/jxuwxilxr/IMAG0490.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jxuwxilxr/)
structure inside front cabin area

(http://s11.postimage.org/db894c49b/IMAG0491.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/db894c49b/)
where the prop enters the hull from underneath

As you can see, its gonna be dificult to re arrange in there lol
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 12, 2011, 06:46:51 PM
i think people recon that prop is too big, personally i have no idea myself.
how ever it performs with that motor esc and batt, its going to be better than a stock tamiya car motor mechanical speed controller and 7.2 nicad!

i cant see how seeing as i use graupner speed 600 on 8.4 with a 36mm propeller and its fine, in fact it runs stone cold for 20 mins. Does this mean that the speed 600 can run bigger props than the 700?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 12, 2011, 07:10:29 PM
hi steve yes not easy but it can be done.i used a long round file from the out side, it toke me an hour all two but i got it done.will post some pics of the in side of my boat, and some of the under side showing where i have my rudder, water intake and prop.the 600 and 700 motors should be able to run 40mm two blade props. Like i said i run a 42mm prop on 12v
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 12, 2011, 08:13:48 PM
just have to grit your teeth steve. Be brave :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 12, 2011, 08:42:36 PM
just have to grit your teeth steve. Be brave :-))

looking into gritting them now lol
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 14, 2011, 04:43:46 PM
hi Steve here's the pics i said i would post i hope they help you.   

(http://s7.postimage.org/tf6on41tz/010_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tf6on41tz/)

(http://s8.postimage.org/m1iaisef5/012_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/m1iaisef5/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/hy2vdca2z/014_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hy2vdca2z/)

(http://s12.postimage.org/493hevfsp/017_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/493hevfsp/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 14, 2011, 08:05:27 PM
BAT44,

I bored out the shaft hole a bit and moved the angle down a fair few degrees.
It could have been a bit shallower but my propshaft is pretty short so i need a little bit of angle for it to keep its head above the water.
Ive also increased the distance between the prop and the rudder, there was only about 1mm Clarence before and nowhere to put a cooling pickup plus the plans and most of the huntsman models Ive seen have this sort of gap or more.


Oo~~~~
(http://s10.postimage.org/yyf3t2185/IMAG0517.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yyf3t2185/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 14, 2011, 11:14:56 PM
welcome to the huntsman club! :-)) Good luck on the build, it would be great to get a load of these boats together! (Martin are you reading??)

just a few points that might help you save time and money, your boats is the same as mine, its a  Veron design, little bit rarer than the Precedent design, and slightly different. Remember that all the plans kicking around where based on ic engines, hence the very different prop angle, you last pic looks good, try and get the shaft as flat to the hull as possible, then the prop is pushing the boat forward, and not upwards!

Regarding the prop size, they are approx 1.50 each, get a couple, or borrow as I did! start small and work up after short runs, testing the temp of the motor, make sure you have a fuse inline to protect the esc, If memory serves me right those supermarine mtroniks where quite expensive, I think they are capable of running twin motors, just a pity the max volts you can use with it is 12volts, that kind of limits you, as the graupner 700's nominal voltage is up to 14, and upping the volts makes a huge difference to performance, those motors love big volts, and that hull thrives on speed, they handle beautifuilly.

I did the same to my side windows and screen and removed them, some early 28's where like that. My first set up was with  a700 bb turbo on direct drive, it gave pleasing performance, its not rocket fast, but very acceptable, try and trade the battery pack for two 6v sticks and wire for 12v, then each stick can sit either side of the motor low in the hull to balance the boat, and if you manage to get a higher volts esc in the future you can just add another 6v stick to go to 18v, and so on :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 14, 2011, 11:48:03 PM
hi Steve no going back now. it would be nice to see a boat meeting with just these boats, or at a major boat show with just fairy boats on the tables. and i bet not one of them will be the same, now that would be a Kodak moment O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))     
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 15, 2011, 12:00:42 AM
hi red, Ive seen your build and love your boat.

i will def look into what you said about the power.
my biggest problem right now is that the boat was not finished to the greatest standard and nothing quite matches the other side and bits arent aways straight or even thickness etc, trying to hide all the imperfections is proving very hard if not impossible agghhhh! at least the hull looks straight!
1 thing I'm not doing is a rebuild of the superstructure so I will have to settle for the best i can get it, this means it will never look as good as ones like yours that have been built properly but should look OK and a million times better than it ever did!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 15, 2011, 12:01:53 AM
hi Steve no going back now. it would be nice to see a boat meeting with just these boats, or at a major boat show with just fairy boats on the tables. and i bet not one of them will be the same, now that would be a Kodak moment O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))     

That would be funny.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 15, 2011, 12:05:37 AM
no going back now

Hi Lads
I'm enjoying this thread and the issues to be considered raised in all your posts. I think Red181's post isn't about going back but going forward.
The story of his craft (double meaning intended) is one of constant development and improvement. If Steve is a bit restricted cashwise today
then he might not be next month/year (maybe an X'mas present). Red's advising the next step in a possible upgrade (now if that's possible).
I am keen to see how Steve gets on and learn from his build so keep posting please.

Regards Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 15, 2011, 12:09:08 AM
Kodak moment

Great idea Bat44, 'if you build it they will come'  O0

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 15, 2011, 02:14:15 AM
I am so sick of filler right now, just when you think you have finished another inspection flags 20 things to fill  <*<
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 15, 2011, 03:25:41 AM
another inspection flags 20 things <*<

True - like because I am going to plank over the deck of my Spraymaster I get the ruler out - whole deck cockpits arrangement is 5mm out of centre line -beeping wonderful.  {:-{
Keep sanding Steve.

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 15, 2011, 08:19:07 AM
im sure we could all turn out at one of next years fairey club rallies ?  ive a few contacts within the club !
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 15, 2011, 08:50:02 AM
that would be a fun thing to do so hurry up steve or you will miss it
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 15, 2011, 06:24:04 PM
Quote
I'm sure we could all turn out at one of next years fairey club rallies ? I've a few contacts within the club

that would be a laugh! :-))

steve dint get hung up on things matching directly, I cheated like hell, I know all the imperfections and differences, my boat is just a refurb like yours, but I am good at deflecting attention away from the mistakes (there are many!) to some good points,  some very  cheap tricky things you can do, here is a taster :D

the bouys, are kinder egg shells, painted blue, the netting is a 1980's style punk t-shirt from oxfam, cut up and pulled over the kinder egg container, the "rope" is blue thick laces!. The rivet detail on the rear corners of the transom, plasticard, covered with chrome stickback plastic, and dressmaker pins are the rivets!, its little tricks like that which save the money and give the boat that little extra detail that other dint have, bother...... :(( now every huntsman on mayhem will have kinder egg bouys!!


removed duplicate picture  :}  ken

Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 15, 2011, 07:56:10 PM
im sure we could all turn out at one of next years fairey club rallies ?  ive a few contacts within the club !

dont tell em lol,  just turn up it would be more of a laugh
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 15, 2011, 08:08:17 PM
that would be a laugh! :-))

Steve dint get hung up on things matching directly, I cheated like hell, I know all the imperfections and differences, my boat is just a refurb like yours, but I am good at deflecting attention away from the mistakes (there are many!) to some good points,  some very  cheap tricky things you can do, here is a taster :D

the bouys, are kinder egg shells, painted blue, the netting is a 1980's style punk t-shirt from oxfam, cut up and pulled over the kinder egg container, the "rope" is blue thick laces!. The rivet detail on the rear corners of the transom, plasticard, covered with chrome stickback plastic, and dressmaker pins are the rivets!, its little tricks like that which save the money and give the boat that little extra detail that other dint have, bother...... :(( now every huntsman on mayhem will have kinder egg bouys!!

How did you make the mugs? barbie toys?
feel a bit better now i have seen some of the imperfections in its body, the photos i have seen make it look so perfect! one of the places Ive been struggling with you have similar faults, the beading at waterline level that runs the length of the hull. Is it excess resin on yours too? another things thats bothering me is trying to hide the nails in some places, if you try to knock them in a touch the wood splits  slightly in the flimsy places. lucky for my there all up top and not structural. I'm really not looking forward to doing the screen, i think I'm going to leave that until last! The chrome on the plasticard and the air vents, its spray paint isnt it? i want to get that finish on the rails at the front after stripping all the household gloss from them thinking i was going to spray paint them white again but love the silver look they now have

(http://s9.postimage.org/dwwmiitrf/DSC00013.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dwwmiitrf/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 16, 2011, 02:12:43 AM
can anyone advise me on the prop support please. since fitting the new one it has less shaft exposed on the outside of the hull and i have also supported it to a degree with fiberglass but wonder if i should re fit the old prop support, leave it as it is or reinforce it all the way to the bush in the end of the shaft with fiberglass. if i went to then end with the fiberglass and shaped it like i have already it would make it like a fin. would this create better straight line stability? the other benefit i can see from doing that is it would make it more streamlined and the fiberglass would help to reduce turbulence in the water between the tube upper and hull bottom. an actual prop support would be stronger and would offer support on the pulling forces that reverse creates but would add turbulence and drag. what does everyone think? a pic of the support still fitted is on page 1 and here is a pic of the new shaft and the fiberglass support as it stands Ive also put the support in the pic for a better look at it.


(http://s9.postimage.org/hu8wyhijv/DSC00015.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hu8wyhijv/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: bat44 on December 16, 2011, 10:36:44 AM
Steve i don't think you will need the prop support as you do not have much of the prop shaft on the out side of the hull.but one quick test you can do and that is to run the prop shaft at high speed, and if you get a lot of vibration at the end of the prop shaft then put the support on, if not then don't. you could fiberglass up to end don't think it hurt it would make it look nice 
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 16, 2011, 02:00:05 PM
I think it will look better too. I cannot test the shaft for vibration yet as I'm waiting for a new coupling to arrive in the post along with a prop. the tube is 9" long and only 3" is exposed outside and 1 1/2" inside so a great deal of it is supported in the shaft bore in the hull. I'm defiantly leaning towards fiberglassing it to the end of the shaft, if you look at the real boats they have a blade incorporated into the shaft support just before the prop. I'm wondering if this is to suppress the swirling of the water before the prop so that it can cut into "straight" water. If i were to glass to the end of the tube, it would create a similar affect.

heres a pic of what i mean


(http://s8.postimage.org/pmyc2yb6p/pic1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pmyc2yb6p/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 16, 2011, 07:07:37 PM
its not resin mate, I would not finish a boat like that! its water bubbles after running!

Handrail at front is stainless rod, rear quarter corners is stickyback plastic over plasticard, vents, see my post in the sales section :-))

The boat is regualrly used, its not a museum piece, so gets knocked about a bit, it will get a make over next year after my other projects are finished.

As for the screen, I made mine 2mm lexan and made it removeable for maintenance and replacement if broken

Prop support is a must, if the boat gets knocked or hits something in the water, no support could damage all the hard work you are doing now, as the prop outershaft could move, damaging the hull.  You could fabricate a wedge, or just modify the existing support, it wont create drag or turbulane with your running setup it wont be going that fast to make a difference, I would modify what you have now rather than a wedge under the tube as it will be more secure, the epoxy or fibreglass could break. In your attached pic of the "real" boat, the props have an external support. If the shaft is vibrating, you need to cure that problem, not mask it over or the bearings will faill. Most vibration issues are misaligned shafts, or bent innner shafts, to test, roll the inner shaft on a piece of glass, if bent, dont use it! :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 16, 2011, 08:47:04 PM
RED,

thanks for the advice, i will alter the support to suit the new angle.

lol sorry about the rsin mistake, you can clearly see the bubbles on the back of your boat but its bluured up the side and with you saying that theres all sorts you hide i translated blurr to resin ha ha. i did wonder as i did not see anything like that in your build post.

Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 16, 2011, 09:31:34 PM
Ok, changed the angle in the support and cut new seats for the support feet to go.
will stick some epoxy between the tube and support when i fix it in place for good so there locked together.


(http://s8.postimage.org/7tv4sps1d/DSC00069.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/7tv4sps1d/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 17, 2011, 02:49:58 PM
shape the legs around the prop tube so the meet under the tube, rather than wide apart
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 17, 2011, 04:52:53 PM
shape the legs around the prop tube so the meet under the tube, rather than wide apart

the design of the support would make it very difficult to shape it like that without breaking it, also is it not beneficial to have sideward strength? the other thing is Ive already cut the seats for the support feet in the hull ribs and will have to fill them in again grrr. will it make much difference like it is? I'm guessing more drag as opposed to in line with the shaft that is facing the water flow first and more streamlined if they were  in line with each other
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 17, 2011, 05:38:33 PM
it should be ok steve as it is.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 21, 2011, 02:51:30 AM
Got a little further, Ive modified the propshaft support, primed it and Ive also primed the hull. now i can see the last of the faults in the hull that need attention. nothing major, just a few tiny gaps between the ribs of the hull and the hull bottom. i don't know the condition of the seal underneath and so don't want water getting under the ribs. the hull needs more primer all over in my opinion then i will move on to the cabin, i reckon i will have gone through 3-4 cans of primer (whole boat) before its ready for top coat!

Ive also got to find some way of heating my garage, i setup a little bay in the conservatory but was not extracting the overspray/fumes fast enough and it stank for hours lol. the problem is its far to cold and damp top be painting in the garage at this time of year and cant really spend money on a heater as i already feel bad about the money Ive spent on paint and drive parts for the boat. I'm seriously thinking of running a pipe from my car heater matrix into my garage and heating it that way! if i turned the air con on whilst it was blowing the hot air it will be supplying dry air also as hot + aircon acts as a dehumidifier! if i do it i will post some pics so you all can have a good laugh!

anyway, heres what Ive done so far.....


(http://s7.postimage.org/wfim56ilj/DSC00110.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wfim56ilj/)
same prop support but taken apart, reshaped, cut down and soldered.



(http://s9.postimage.org/4ians7bsr/DSC00115.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4ians7bsr/)

my makeshift spray bay in the kids "playroom" lol


(http://s12.postimage.org/6ltrkeey1/DSC00130.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6ltrkeey1/)

support looks a lot better now its primed.


(http://s11.postimage.org/6iis6hjxb/DSC00134.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6iis6hjxb/)

hull in primer.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 21, 2011, 11:09:44 AM
that prop bracket is a good tribute to your craftsmanship this project goes to show you dont need a lot of money to build a good model.
wouldnt it be cheaper to buy a small electric heater than have the car running for hours on end burning petrol? and another thing did you swap for that 700 motor?

Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 21, 2011, 02:50:39 PM
that prop bracket is a good tribute to your craftsmanship this project goes to show you don't need a lot of money to build a good model.
wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a small electric heater than have the car running for hours on end burning petrol? and another thing did you swap for that 700 motor?



thanks man, you like the bracket? i swore and threw things several times before it worked! took me hours to do that silly little bracket and at first i thought i had ruined it and wished i hadn't started.
i reckon that i would have the car running for about half hour per session doing 2 coats per session. my car is very thirsty as its a 2.5 v6 but when its on idle it hardly touches the fuel, i don't think theres going to be much in it between a 2kw electric heater and my car on idle except the heater in my mondy is insanely good and something like 3x more powerfull in both heat and flow for roughly the same cost to run!

I did do that swap, it gets me going and i can look into upgrading at a later date.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 21, 2011, 03:34:32 PM
i dont personally think it was altogeather necessary to change the support but its has turned out well in the end. you will possibly find that your motor wont need upgrading, as long as it does the job then whats the point, if it aint broke dont fix it you know.

i think i understand your reseaoning behind using the car. I think you shoud take the car for a drive to get the engine hot before you use it too warm your garage though.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 21, 2011, 05:09:14 PM
yeah, its heats up really fast so a trip to tescos round the corner for whatever we need will heat it up and use the fuel for a perpose instead of just heating it up for the paint.

i will close all the vents up and pull one of the pipes off the dash and connect it to my long pipe (it stretches longer) as seen in photo above so all the heaters flow goes down the pipe.

Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 21, 2011, 10:12:09 PM
what photos that then {:-{

it will take ages to warm your hole garage, i dont think it will be necessary to keep warm while applying the paint, youl just have to put a jacket on. But what you could do to save wasting heat, time and petrol is too put the freshly painted boat under a cardboard box and then run the pipe into that. The interior of the box will warm in seconds, put some hot water bottles in and some blankets on the box too, that should keep the heat in.  %% bit of insulation eh
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 21, 2011, 10:41:10 PM
what photos that then {:-{

it will take ages to warm your hole garage, i don't think it will be necessary to keep warm while applying the paint, youl just have to put a jacket on. But what you could do to save wasting heat, time and petrol is too put the freshly painted boat under a cardboard box and then run the pipe into that. The interior of the box will warm in seconds, put some hot water bottles in and some blankets on the box too, that should keep the heat in.  %% bit of insulation eh

It would take less time than you think to heat up the garage, its only got to be 15c + pref 20 or more. its not me thats got to stay out of the cold but the paint job! if you paint in temps too low you get condensation and moisture caught in the paint itself the object being painted has to be above a certain temp as does the paint can and the air surrounding it. if i were to pump air straight into a box containing the boat with fresh paint i would risk large amounts of dust getting to it plus could actually overheat the paint and ruin it that way! its not got to be warm in there, just not cold.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Welsh Wizard on December 21, 2011, 10:49:15 PM
18 degrees is the optimum temp for painting


Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 21, 2011, 11:13:54 PM
id have thought a couple of heaters placed near to the hull after spraying would be good enough , it also helps to warm the paint before its applied !
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 21, 2011, 11:27:40 PM
youl have to keep it warm whilst its drying though too. obviuosly you dont want to kiln the job but then with weather as it is it wont take long before it cold again and running your car on an off for several hours isnt practical either. a box will keep it warm for longer periods of time. I personally actually dry my boats in the airing cupboard!! After a good telling off from swmbo i now take the towels out too.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 21, 2011, 11:47:19 PM
youl have to keep it warm whilst its drying though too. obviuosly you dont want to kiln the job but then with weather as it is it wont take long before it cold again and running your car on an off for several hours isnt practical either. a box will keep it warm for longer periods of time. I personally actually dry my boats in the airing cupboard!! After a good telling off from swmbo i now take the towels out too.

after is not a problem, its only go to be slightly dry and i can move it indoors to the conservatory to finish drying, just cant keep spraying in there.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 22, 2011, 12:26:40 AM
well done on the prop support, :-)) the reason its better than that wide angle thing, when running the wide angle could catch on any debris, such as the dreaded weed that many lakes are suffering from now in warmer weather, it would also cause drag, so what you have done is much nicer and asthetically more realistic :-))

As for painting, I have two boats that are currently being refurbished, I am waiting for some warmer weather  to paint them. Why not leave the painting till everything is finished and you have tested the boat, then you wont be damaging the paintwork when doing any modifications etc
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 22, 2011, 02:23:17 AM
well done on the prop support, :-)) the reason its better than that wide angle thing, when running the wide angle could catch on any debris, such as the dreaded weed that many lakes are suffering from now in warmer weather, it would also cause drag, so what you have done is much nicer and asthetically more realistic :-))

As for painting, I have two boats that are currently being refurbished, I am waiting for some warmer weather  to paint them. Why not leave the painting till everything is finished and you have tested the boat, then you wont be damaging the paintwork when doing any modifications etc

red, in your huntsman refurb post you mention you shouldn't have ignored the cracks in the primer. what happened to yours?
Ive developed about 3 very small patches where the primer has gone mosaic on me! I'm thinking its something to do with the resin underneath that the boat was originally sealed with but not sure. anyway, i have filled the tiny cracks and hope that when the hull gets another coat of primer it will behave itself! propper skint right now so what you said about fitting it out first is probably whats going to happen till i can afford more paint! i have everything i need to make it a running shell now apart from pickup and pipes for the water cooling the pickups are not much but can be made pretty easy too. the esc has channels in it for cooling pipes so i will source some copper pipes for that, probably from a dead fridge or freezer and add some thermal compound to both the esc and the motor pipes where they make contact. where i ordered my bits from they only did 35 or 40mm + props so i went for a 35mm as a startergonna try and get 38mm and 40mm later to test with although 40mm seems a little large from what you said. the specs for that 700  motor state It runs r where others like the 700 bb say R + L, am i going to do damage if i reverse this motor under load? it spins  both ways as Ive had it running on the esc but dint know what the score it with damage. i know other DC motors are wound like that for example some car wiper motors, Ive messed about with these making ridiculously powerfull servos for a large scale RC truck I'm building. with these motors they just run slower the wrong way.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 22, 2011, 06:58:57 PM
posted some information about building heavy duty servos if anyone is interested.

the link is  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34532.0
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on December 22, 2011, 07:01:02 PM
yeah ive read that put it in my favourites. have you got any pics of this truck then  :o
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 22, 2011, 08:11:30 PM
yeah ive read that put it in my favourites. have you got any pics of this truck then  :o

i dont know where ive stored them but im sure i took some.
The truck is a old kids electric ride on truck (Pretty old, before they started oversizing bits and making them look silly and out of proportion)
ive stripped out the original electric running gear, the steering ect and cut the floorpan to take the mini quad chassis ive put in it.
the quad frame was too high up so i had to cut the top, bend a bar further down the frame and weld it back up again as it poked out the top of the cargo area of the shell. Ive not touched it since i moved house but will get back on it some time between now and the summer. i wouldent want to get hit by that rc car when its at full speed lol.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 22, 2011, 11:15:38 PM
Im not  a piant expert, but the crazing could be a number of things, in my case I was using too much paint at one time, and mixing brands. I used halfords filler (its rubbish, no filling qualities >:-o) primer, and the top coats where plasticoat, I learnt to stay with one brand of paint, had to rub it all down and start again, if the primer isnt right, it will affect the top coats so get that sorted before you continue, maybe some grease or something? greasy fingers are enought to affect the paint surface  ok2
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 23, 2011, 01:07:34 AM
might of been grease but its doubtfull, Ive done a fair bit of spray painting before on cars and other objects and know about things like that but this mosaic effect on the paint is something new to me, Ive followed procedure to the t!

my only explanation is a reaction from the paint to the resin in places where the resin is deeper than others, Ive noticed one of the spots is where theres a join in the hull construction and there was more resin filling the dip so wonder if that was the cause.

this is the sort of work i turn out when i man the fiberglass, filler and spray can, it was a Mk2 mondeo rear bumper for a cabby mate of mine


(http://s16.postimage.org/smttiblpd/DSC02814.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/smttiblpd/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/4kczng529/DSC02815.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4kczng529/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/l9efjd1nl/DSC02816.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/l9efjd1nl/)
before i started, oh dear.... still, have you ever seen a Mk2 mondeo that hasn't got cracked bumpers?



(http://s16.postimage.org/p9q69chi9/DSC02827.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p9q69chi9/)
as if by magic, the damage has gone! I repaired a door and sprayed other parts on the car for him and the idiot wrote the car off the same day i returned it to him grrrrrr
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 23, 2011, 08:31:28 AM
steve , where the paint has crazed , have you got any primer over the resin surface ?  the crazing is often caused by too much paint , although it could be silicone under the affected area or just two different types of paint reacting with each other ie celly and enamel finishes . however there is a product available that will seal in the old finish and allow you to refinish your paint as normal , it will also seal red to stop it bleeding through to a different colour ! ! product is called  BARCOAT should be available from your local automotive paint factors . hope you manage to sort it soon . jon
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 23, 2011, 01:45:17 PM
steve , where the paint has crazed , have you got any primer over the resin surface ?  the crazing is often caused by too much paint , although it could be silicone under the affected area or just two different types of paint reacting with each other ie celly and enamel finishes . however there is a product available that will seal in the old finish and allow you to refinish your paint as normal , it will also seal red to stop it bleeding through to a different colour ! ! product is called  BARCOAT should be available from your local automotive paint factors . hope you manage to sort it soon . jon

the whole hull is painted in what looks to be household gloss brushed on! Its been sanded untill completely flat, in a lot of places this ment going all the way through the paint and sanding till the resin underneath was flat as the resin was uneven accross the boat , it had "hills " in it as well as a poor paint job lol.

now, there are many many spots where there was exposed resin that i have primed over and had no trouble at all and other spots where its gone bad (only about 3 small patches) this is why i was wondering if if was resin of a greater depth allowing some kind of merging. the areas that have gone funny have had the micro cracks filled and im going to prime over then again but in many thin coats allowing propper drying between
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 23, 2011, 10:04:59 PM
i would apply a coat of barcoat before putting any further coats of paint !
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 24, 2011, 12:45:21 AM
i would apply a coat of barcoat before putting any further coats of paint !

how much does it cost? can it be bought in arerosol? and where can it be bought please?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 24, 2011, 04:23:09 AM
Hi Steve

I think this is the one you mean?
Data sheet - http://www.hex.co.uk/tds/upol/barcoat.pdf
Cheapest on a very quick search was http://www.refinishsystems.com/product/777-205/UPOLBarcoatQuickDryingIsolator
And on Ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=barcoat

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 24, 2011, 08:36:43 AM
ive not seen it in aerosol form , just 1 litre tins , use it straight from the tin through a spray gun / airbrush , once applied no need to flat the finish just apply new paint ! jon
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 24, 2011, 03:41:53 PM
Ive not seen it in aerosol form , just 1 litre tins , use it straight from the tin through a spray gun / airbrush , once applied no need to flat the finish just apply new paint ! jon

That causes a problem! i do not have or have access to a spray gun or airbrush!

looks like I'm going to have to try my way of light dusting the affected areas allowing them to dry properly between coats until theres enough to give heaver coats.
the extra £20 plus the cost of any thiners it possibly had to be mixed with is another hit to my budget. spray paint alone is costing a small fortune!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Welsh Wizard on December 24, 2011, 04:26:47 PM
What you have said allready about the hull having been brushed with houshold paint has confirmed my WORSE fears,sorry you have got THREE choices here.

Coat with Barcoat to stop it reacting again.A different thickness of resin WILL NOT do anything to paint.

The second choice is to overcoat with PLASTIC Coat paint available usually from Halfords or B&Q but sometimes NOT ALLWAYS this can react even though it is an enamel based paint.WARNING if u choose this route then it is not negotiable to use any other make of paint you MUST use this make for the top coat as well.......Main trouble with this Make of paint is the amount of time it takes to go off.

Third chpoice is to strip ALL the paint off the existing hull either ut paint stripper or dammed hard work with rubbing down paper.

One option maybee would to beg and plead with a garage if they would spray your hull with Barcoat....NOTHING else will do.

Where are you from if you midlands based I could help as I am a Fully qualified paint sprayer with over 30years experience and I do Know what I am talking about


Dave 
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 24, 2011, 06:44:41 PM
th really irritating bit is the fact that i have got paint primer covering all 3 different surfaces (resin,old white paint and old blue paint) without any problems yet in random spots theres issues :( .
Ive painted loads of things in the past and never had any problem but then after thinking about it, the surface on everything ive painted has ether been old automotive paint, bare clean plastic or bare metal. ive never tried to spray this sort of thing so never had a reaction before, not amused at all.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Welsh Wizard on December 24, 2011, 10:41:58 PM
It can be localised BUT the fact of the matter is that household paint is enamel and car paint is acrylic an dthe 2 simply dont mix Where are u form



Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 24, 2011, 11:15:21 PM
I would take 3rd choice, by far most labour intensive, get it back to wood, start fresh, it may not be reacting now, but imagine if in  a months time it all starts going funny, after all this hard work :((, if its back to wood, you can then also sanding seal it, if painted with household gloss the hull may have pourous imperfections that might open up at a later date, if ambitious enough you could glass fiber it! ;), like I said earlier, I am not a paint expert, but have learnt the hard way, ignoring the warning signs now could be costly at a later date,  :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 25, 2011, 09:13:17 AM
i can imagine most of us have been faced with the same problem , at least if youve started from a bare model you have a fair idea of what its painted in ! if removing all of the existing paint isnt a viable option then at least barcoat will stop the reaction , and seal it from the fresh paintwork . i now make a note of what my models are painted in , should i sell them this is passed onto the new owner . jon
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 25, 2011, 06:32:17 PM
not saying it cant react later but my thoughts were that after any solvents had evaporated off and paint had fully hardened then a reaction shouldn't be possible? i can see how it could produce a weaker finish though.

I'm still trying to figure out what path I'm going to take, personally i cant see myself stripping it right down, i don't think the hull is up to it with the ribs and all. i think I'm only left with 2 options where i would keep my sanity.

cover with sealer or try and work around the issues with my dry coat technique.

i will make some inquires with sprayers to see what it would cost for the sealer coat. i suppose it could even be brushed on then sanded flat if all else failed.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Welsh Wizard on December 25, 2011, 07:01:05 PM
Steve PLEASE listen to what I am saying here,a dry coat textechnique will NOT work.As for the paint fully hardened yes it has BUT The solvent in the new paint will eat into the old ain't and soften it thus giving you a reaction.As for brushing the barcoat it is a big NO NO................WHY i hear you ask,Well Barcoat is used to seal any form of old paint and stop further reaction,if you rub it down you will without a doubt go thru it in places,Barcoat is like water to apply it is microscopically thin that is why.If any sprayer charges you more than a tenner to put it on they are robbing you blind in my opinion,if you want to send it up to me then I will do it for FREE I allready have barcoat in the unit pm me if you want it down I will also throw some primer over it so it will be ready for you.


Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 25, 2011, 09:18:13 PM
Hi Steve

If you do strip it down (and it honestly looks like the way to go) I am told that 'Fairy Power Spray' at about 3.15 in
Tesco's will do most of the hard work. I am about to try it myself on old paint for the first time - but the chap who
advised me has been 100% right in all the advice given me so far....... no pressure intended Steve, it's your choice
mate. Good luck whatever you decide to do  :-))

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 26, 2011, 05:01:28 PM
welsh wizard, can the coat be put straight over the the work Ive already done? the whole hull was sprayed and 99.9% is fine on the hull with no reactions, just the 3 small spots i mentioned before and would hate to strip all that off, the work, agghhhhh! the other side to going over it is that the wife wont see me stripping off a load of paint Ive just paid out for, instead just adding to it he he.
When i said about solvents having evaporated off and paint hardend there shouldn't be a reaction, i was not talking about the old original paint being solvent free and not reacting as new was put on.
what i meant was any new paint that has successfully gone on without reaction and has fully dried and hardened shouldn't react later on.

Norseman,

Ive heard people talking about power spray too.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on December 26, 2011, 08:45:18 PM
barcoat is applied directly over the object with the existing problem , it dosnt need sanding afterwards but merely overpainted in whatever paint you wish to continue with . it will save you hours of removing every scrap of whatever the model has already been coated in ! jon
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 26, 2011, 11:28:43 PM
barcoat is applied directly over the object with the existing problem , it dosnt need sanding afterwards but merely overpainted in whatever paint you wish to continue with . it will save you hours of removing every scrap of whatever the model has already been coated in ! jon

so any painting that has already been done does not need to be removed, just bad areas flatted?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on December 27, 2011, 12:39:22 AM
thats a hell of an offer, getting it sealed and primered free! :-))

I have used the fairey power spray myself, it works very well!, removed several coats of household paint and only required minor rubbing down and scraping, then a very good wash down and drying off for a long time to get rid of any residue 
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 27, 2011, 02:43:45 AM
so glad that you dont get this problem with paintwork on modern cars, just nightmares getting all traces of wax off the area.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 27, 2011, 02:58:14 AM
Hi Steve - I see you don't sleep much either %)
Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 27, 2011, 05:26:37 AM
Hi Steve - I see you don't sleep much either %)
Dave

na i dont sleep much, its 5.25am now!
part of my condition make me unable to  sleep untill completely exhausted, i cannot shut off and have gone more than 48 hours without sleep quite a few times!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on December 27, 2011, 12:06:09 PM
Ah yes - Mayhemitis will do that to you  {-)

Look at the medical thread - we all seem to be damaged goods mate.  O0

The models are in better shape than us all.

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Welsh Wizard on December 27, 2011, 05:49:41 PM
Steve no need to strip existing paint off send it up and leave the rest to me.


Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 28, 2011, 12:32:13 AM
BREAKING NEWS!

Steve has sanded the affected areas and blown over them again but now with no problems. all other areas are holding out without any sign of trouble :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on December 29, 2011, 04:30:34 PM
I bet when i finally get this finished the cold weather will have frozen over the lakes and ponds!
If it were a surface drive craft the snow would be good fun, check out what this bloke does with his racing model in the snow lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuNt0PUahTY

wonder if he thought about the extra load on the motors along with the water cooling not working!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on January 12, 2012, 10:33:58 PM
Hey Steve

I'm just having a last mooch around before I go to work  <:( - how's she coming along?

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 17, 2012, 02:36:38 AM
things slowed because of Christmas but got some bits done since my last post-
 
hull is now in gloss white, above the deck still needs painting.
Made a new motor mount, aligned it and bonded it in.
fitted motor.
made bracket for the rudder servo and fitted it.

I have tested it in the water at last!
having real problems finding somewhere to take the boat without having to drive 20 odd miles, theres no bloody ponds or lakes! eventually i went to a ford in a river that runs slowly and the kids and i had a play with our boats there.
its not very fast although i was fighting the current as i did not want to risk going with it due to a 6 inch waterfall on the right side! I'm running 8.4v, so going up to 12v will give me some gain and I'm going to experiment with prop sizes once i get the cooling installed (have not installed a water pick up yet)
the boat had a short run and the motor only got mildly warm without any cooling so with cooling i think a larger prop is not going to be a issue although it may not actually make it faster, testing is  the only way to find out.
I will also look into putting a much more powerfull motor in it at a later date, the aim now it just to have it painted and running, it does not need to be fast to enjoy playing with it.
in 1 pic the universal joint looks like it does not reach its insert properly, it does the shaft was just pulled back at the time of the photo from working on it.
gonna start on the topside and interior as soon as i get some spare money.
heres some pics of it now.

(http://s17.postimage.org/73474rqyj/DSC00313.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/73474rqyj/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/g8h5cdjr9/DSC00656.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/g8h5cdjr9/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/okmjohct9/DSC00657.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/okmjohct9/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/s5n0lptxh/DSC00660.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s5n0lptxh/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/rel3o6pmj/DSC00583.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rel3o6pmj/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on January 17, 2012, 08:10:22 AM
its starting to come together now , nice to see its being used !
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on January 17, 2012, 08:18:37 AM
what prop u got on it?

i seen now on a previous post your using a 35mm prop.

did anyone answer the question to what the L + R means? im interested myself
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 17, 2012, 03:52:03 PM
what prop u got on it?

i seen now on a previous post your using a 35mm prop.

did anyone answer the question to what the L + R means? I'm interested myself

its got a 35mm prop on it at the moment, the most recommended was a 38mm but where i got my bits from did not have a 38, just 35 and 40.

No, i never did get a response from anyone regarding running the motor in both directions, here is the spec of the motor copied from the graupner site-

Specification
Operating voltage range  4,8...12  V
Blockierstromaufnahme 65  A
Diameter 42,2  mm
Free shaft length 14  mm
Case length 67  mm
All-up weight, approx.  320  g
Maximum efficiency 75  %
No-load current drain (A)  2  A
Charging rate at max. efficiency 12,5  A
Permissible motor direction  R   
No-load speed 15000  U/min
Nominal voltage 9,6  V
Shaft diameter 5  mm

As you can see, it clearly state permissable motor direction, other models they make have L+R in the specs. i know that there are some wiper motors that are designed to be run in one direction only. these will run slower in reverse or not run at all.
this graupner motor i have runs slightly slower in reverse polarity, the problem is although I'm pretty sure that damage is not going to be caused by the short periods that reverse is used and really should be ok for continuous running i dont know for sure.   
I will do a bit of research as ive not looked into it really, just asked on here.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on January 17, 2012, 07:55:34 PM
the L & R  is the rotation of the prop , most vessels that use more than one motor will  use contra rotating propshafts , this helps the vessel to run in a straight line .
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on January 17, 2012, 09:40:20 PM
I must comment on something and im sure ill be shot down about it. I have no experience of using a 700 motor but im very suprised to here it got warm spinning a 35mm prop! I use a graupner speed 600 8.4v with a 34/25 2 blade prop and that runs cold, plus a 540 motor spinning a 35mm prop and that gets warm.

I would have expected a 5 pole 700 motor to be more than adequate to run a 35mm without getting into a sweat. I may be wrong but are you sure there is no binding, its all spinning free and the coupling is nice and straight, Personally i dont like HUCO couplings as they are noisy and would much rather go with a MMB rubber type. In fact you can make one yourself using the brass ends from the HUCO coupling and connect them with some rubber hose!!   

An educated guess would sugest that the 40mm would be ok to get some grip on the water and to fettle about with the pitch rather than the diameter to get the speed up to expectations.

anyway

Just re reading ive allready said 40mm before and people disagreed so we ended up at 38mm. I personally would try a 40 if it was my boat but thats me.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: triumphjon on January 17, 2012, 10:20:43 PM
its time to experiment with different props , both in diameter and pitch and diffenet numbers of blades , all of which have an effect on the current draw of any motor
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 17, 2012, 10:23:42 PM
mike, when i say mildy warm, i mean with freezing hands the motor felt mildy warm.
with very cold hands, things that would feel cool or even cold normally will feel a little warm even the cold tap in your bathroom.
any motor put under load will produce heat to some degree by design but the motor was not getting hot or even near hot, just able to feel a slight warmth in it and does not have any form of cooling working at the moment.
I took great care to make sure everything was aligned properly before things were permanently fixed, there is no binding and everything turns nice and freely and runs with little or no vibrations other than that from normal motor operation
I will be buying a couple of props and a 40mm will be one of them, trial and error will produce the best performance.

Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on January 17, 2012, 11:31:39 PM
fair enough
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 17, 2012, 11:47:11 PM
fair enough

Hope i did not come accross like i was being moody, was just explaing what i ment by "warm" and telling you that i was going to grab a 40 like you had said in prev posts.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 17, 2012, 11:53:16 PM
Mike, totally off subject but are you into online gaming on the pc?
have you heard of Americas army? its a first person army combat game made by the u.s army and given away free. not like cod with stupid respawns, you can actually iliminate the other side, once your dead your dead till the new round starts. its meant to be a combat simulator and has physics that are realistic, theres no fanatsy guns or stupid things, you can only do whats possible in real life.

http://www.americasarmy.com/aa3.php
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on January 18, 2012, 12:00:35 AM
are you using "x" props, or "s" props?

"x" are the way to go, that 700 motor, 9.6v yes? is it a bb turbo? I have done extensive testing so might be able to offer some results, as regard direction, viewed from the rear, the prop shoud turn anti clockwise, and the trailing edge of the prop will be the straight edge, if you know what I mean!

38 and 40mm seems very small to me for that boat and motor, but you are doing the right thing, start small and work up in size
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 18, 2012, 01:34:12 AM
35mm x prop is what i have now, the motor is the 700 speed turbo, not the bb, yes its rated at 9.6v
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on January 18, 2012, 08:22:33 AM
are you using "x" props, or "s" props?

"x" are the way to go, that 700 motor, 9.6v yes? is it a bb turbo? I have done extensive testing so might be able to offer some results, as regard direction, viewed from the rear, the prop shoud turn anti clockwise, and the trailing edge of the prop will be the straight edge, if you know what I mean!

38 and 40mm seems very small to me for that boat and motor, but you are doing the right thing, start small and work up in size

whats an s prop?
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on January 18, 2012, 08:24:00 AM
Mike, totally off subject but are you into online gaming on the pc?
have you heard of Americas army? its a first person army combat game made by the u.s army and given away free. not like cod with stupid respawns, you can actually iliminate the other side, once your dead your dead till the new round starts. its meant to be a combat simulator and has physics that are realistic, theres no fanatsy guns or stupid things, you can only do whats possible in real life.

http://www.americasarmy.com/aa3.php

not heard of this game. i Use to be into online gaming but not as much these days. Im using  a laptop and its rubbish for gaming.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: gwa84 on January 18, 2012, 02:54:44 PM
with that motor and cooling coil ive run it on an x45 and a s50 with it geting worm but not hot  so you can defanetly put a bigger prop on it  :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 18, 2012, 04:16:38 PM
whats an s prop?

The shape of the prop.
I may be wrong but i believe only the x prop has the straight edge and is a much sharper looking blade and the s has a much softer shape to it

Yeah, a laptop will struggle or fail to run AA, its min requirements are a 3ghz single core, 1gb ram, 256mb video with shader 3.0 and 5 gb hard drive space

min recommended for decent play is 2.4ghz duel core cpu, 2gb ram and 500mb video
i breeze it with my gaming setup lol, got a 965 black edition cpu (4x 3.4ghz and clockable to 4 x 4.0ghz) 4gb ram and 512mb video with fast gpu on it(clockable also), all game settings at max.
i run at stock speeds as i dont need to overclock yet!
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: pompebled on January 21, 2012, 10:56:03 PM
its got a 35mm prop on it at the moment, the most recommended was a 38mm but where i got my bits from did not have a 38, just 35 and 40.

No, i never did get a response from anyone regarding running the motor in both directions,
As you can see, it clearly state permissable motor direction, other models they make have L+R in the specs.
this graupner motor i have runs slightly slower in reverse polarity, the problem is although I'm pretty sure that damage is not going to be caused by the short periods that reverse is used and really should be OK for continuous running i don't know for sure.   
I will do a bit of research as I've not looked into it really, just asked on here.
Hi Steve,

When a motor is marked L+R, this means it has neutral timing and will run (about) equally fast in both directions, important if you're going to run twin motors with counter rotating props.

The R from your motor means it has been timed to run faster in that direction (Germans look from the motor towards the prop when determining L or R).
As already mentioned earlier, viewed from the transom, the prop should turn counterclockwise.

A rule of thumb is that the propsize should not exceed the motor (strictly speaking the of the armature), so a 35 S is on the small side, the boat will not be very fast and the motor will stay cool.

The 9,6V motors are/were run in competition boats on 12-14 cells, so on 8,4V it'll be very sedate, getting the cellcount up will make the boat more lively.
When you do that, go back in propsize (the 35 will do) and make short runs (2 minutes max), come in and check the temperature of motor, ESC and cells.
If everything stays cool enough, try a bigger prop.
I've been running the Graupner 2318,xx K-series hydro props in subsurface applications aswel as the S props, both work well.

When you're carrying sufficient capacity to achieve long runtimes, keep in mind the brushed motors are only 75% efficient, the rest is transferred into heat, most of which originates at the brushes.
Adding brushtab cooling is a very good way to keep them cool.
It's very simple, just solder a piece of brass pipe onto each brushtab and link them to the cooling circuit.

(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture88-pic03455-700-neodym.jpg)

Just make sure you don't create a short to the can, the silicon tubing acts as an insulator if need be.
Cover the coil with shrinkwrap, to press it tightly on the can.
Adding heatconductive paste enlarges the contact surface.

Should the coil prove to ineffective, make a full cooling jacket, like on the 700 Neodym in the picture:

(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture4093-cooling-jacket-700bb-1.jpg)

When running in salt water, make an inlet for the ESC and one brushtab, and an inlet for the coil/jacket and the second brushtab.
The longer stretch of tubing will avoid losses due to the conductivity of salt water (no, this will not cause a short).

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 22, 2012, 02:48:22 PM
thanks for the info jan, it has cleared up a couple of questions.
when you say soldier to the brush tabs, you mean the external electrical connectionsss to the motor? thats what i see in your pics but just asking to be 1001% on it!

thanks, Steve.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: pompebled on January 22, 2012, 07:26:31 PM
Yep,

I use a wooden washpeg to keep the pipe in position:

(http://www.modelbouwforum.nl/forums/members/pompebled-albums-motorkoeling-picture29622-knijper-koelpijpje.jpg)

The pipe is too long in the picture and not pre-tinned, but you get the idea.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Welsh Wizard on January 22, 2012, 08:09:31 PM
Now thats a dammed good idea water cooling the terminals


Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: pompebled on January 22, 2012, 08:42:54 PM
Hi Dave,

It's common practice in the restriced classes, with a good set-up, it's often the only cooling the motor gets, no coil or jacket.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 30, 2012, 01:51:36 PM
sorry, not been on for a few days.

jan, im almost certainly going to cool the terminals like you have shown, im sure it can only provide very limited cooling to the brushes due to whats actually between the outside tabs and the internal brushes themselves but cooling any part of the motor is going to help no matter how small a gain. what im really interested in is your home made cooling jacket!
i would love to know how you made it, its really thin and wondering how the water is routed inside. do you have any photos of the construction of it?
i am also looking at fitting a small fan to the shaft infront of the motor to provide direct drive air cooling through the front vents of the motor and the alley motor mount that acts as a heatsink. water cooling the outer or the motorhelps to cool the the fixed magnets and dissipate some heat but does not have a huge affect on the armature temp. air flow through the motor will have the single biggest cooling affect and coupled with water cooling to the outer of the motor would provide the best overall souloution i think.

Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 30, 2012, 09:20:57 PM
OK, Ive done what I said with the fan on the profshaft.
I took apart a small PC fan and bored a hole in the middle of the fan face and fitted it directly on the universal joint just behind the motor.
pleased with the results, the blades create a fair amount of airflow blowing directly into the front motor vents and aluminium motor mount, i can feel a decent amount of air exiting the rear motor vents so should get pretty good internal cooling from this.

heres some pics-

(http://s14.postimage.org/l65gxblkd/DSC00858.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/l65gxblkd/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/thrknpn9x/DSC00859.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/thrknpn9x/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/s3q76tb1z/DSC00861.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s3q76tb1z/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/cg5mo8ag3/DSC00866.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/cg5mo8ag3/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/kepruu0a5/DSC00868.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/kepruu0a5/)
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on January 31, 2012, 01:12:03 AM
i like your fan addaptation. Dont worry too much about cooling, a well set up motor and prop combination will only require very basic cooling, The extreme lengths that jan goes to is for the high voltages used in racing. I dont know if you have your water cooling plumbed in yet and tested but you will be suprised just how affective it is. Trry prop testing first and then see if more cooling is required, it wont hurt having more cooling mind but not much point in going overkill if you catch me drift :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on January 31, 2012, 01:48:11 AM
ran it again two days ago but this time in a propper pond for the full legth of its battery, full throttle and with a 40mm prop on it.
goes much faster than it did before and still has room for improvement as i can up the voltage a bit. the motor was not cooled in any way and got seriously hot! i still havent got around to getting the water cooling active.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on January 31, 2012, 05:32:29 PM
The extreme lengths that jan goes to

True but I enjoyed seeing Jans method - ha ha - still don't understand why it doesn't short out
though. Maybe I missed to much school?

Random thought - I just remembered Mr C' (our chemistry teacher 1970?) setting fire to his lab
coat. He put the small fire out, seemed panicked, and then had a mental breakdown there and
then in front of us all. half a school year remained and no Science was taught.

Hi Steve - that neat fan is doing work, so isn't that also producing some load too?

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on February 01, 2012, 05:08:57 PM

Hi Steve - that neat fan is doing work, so isn't that also producing some load too?

Dave

yes it will adding load too the motor, the heat that steve is talking about in my oppinion is not good.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on February 01, 2012, 10:28:07 PM
yes the fan will obviously produce a "form" of resistance as it is pumping air, but the resistance is so so small that you wouldent be able to measure it without specialsit equipment.
The fan was rated at 60ma, thats 0.06A to run at its full speed to give an idea of the power needed to turn it
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on February 01, 2012, 10:44:34 PM
yes it will adding load too the motor, the heat that Steve is talking about in my oppinion is not good.

Don't forget that a water pickup will cause drag also, probably a lot more than this fan does!
Its a heavy arsed boat which got run for the entire capacity of its battery with a 40mm prop on it. i was really supprised just how much bigger the 40mm prop was compared with the 35mm, it made a massive difference to the performace of the boat, it goes at least a 3rd faster than before (still not like a rocket) and even lifts the front a little now. a result of the new prop is a huge increase in the work the motor has got to do and thefore heat. some that have run these motors say they got hot others say not, i think theres a big link between prop size AND boat weight.

when i get a chance i will run the boat and test its top speed with gps, its run time and the motor temp and then do another speed test without the fan in-line.
I'm 100% theres no alignment issues and that theres no resistance issues.
if you can think of anything else mike I'm all ears as it is a tad hot lol
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on February 01, 2012, 11:01:27 PM
how hot steve? too hot to touch?

just to recap, its a 40mm prop, "s" or "x", what batteries where you running, and for how long did it run. Do you have  any video of it running?, other than the fan, no cooling coil?

 sorry to go over old ground, just so I know exactly what you are running in order to offer help,

Paul
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on February 02, 2012, 04:49:16 PM
Hi Paul, its a speed 700 turbo (not BB) running a 40mm X prop on a 3300mah 8.4v nimh pack it ran  for approx 15 Min's and yes it was too hot to comfortably touch for long period but not too hot to touch full stop. there was no cooling running at all at that time, the fan is meant to provide additional internal air cooling on top of the water cooling that WILL be fitted
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on February 02, 2012, 06:59:32 PM
is it a 9.6v turbo, whats the part number on the case?

ta
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: MikeA on February 02, 2012, 10:55:12 PM
in my oppinion and from what your saying i reckon the 40 is too big and overloading the motor and the 35 is too small.


i would possibly try half way house with the propeller. I Use this for surface use but with smaller motor, albeit brushless and faster but i think your motor will turn this quite well at a slower submerged rate. The pitch is fairly aggressive to get the speed but the diameter not so small to lose grip. im afraid it isnt free though:

http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_reviews.php?cPath=25_50_59&products_id=356
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on February 03, 2012, 02:51:10 AM
is it a 9.6v turbo, whats the part number on the case?

ta

Hi mate, the mumber is  "3308" it is a 9.6v model.

cheers, steve.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Norseman on February 03, 2012, 03:08:02 AM
See you are still up then Steve - me too.
Are you going to get the water cooling working before you run again?
It isn't the real answer but it will help while you get the set up to what
you want it to be.

I'm just trying to sort planking shapes for around the boats edges but
having some trouble (my little loss of finger sensation doesn't help either)
Refurbing an old boat is more trouble than I ever thought it would be - do
you think that? Relaxing though. Coffee time now........

Dave
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on February 05, 2012, 01:09:41 PM
yeah, refurbing is a lot more work than i thought it would be before i started!
I'm def going to fit it but i dont know if i will have the water cooling running before i chuck it back at the water again, i wouldn't mind giving it a run with just the fan on it just to see what difference it makes. i installed pipes in the rails on the rear of the esc for water cooling but the esc does not even get warm so i think i might leave it out of the system as the less length i have in the tiny pipes the less resistance there will be and better flow round the motor as a result. I'm also going to use thermal compound between thecooling coil and the motor, i think i mentioned it in a previous post and also had it suggested to me by Jan. Thermal compound is second nature to me being someone who builds his own PC's and is a online gamer, cooling is very important to the CPU! even my ram sticks have heatsinks on them and there own fan cooling them lol.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on February 13, 2012, 09:27:09 AM
Hi Steve, you are really entering the "test and more test" stage now, I have been there many times! I am certainly no expert, but can possibly offer some advice as to what to do. I tried various graupner motors in my 3 foot fireboat, which I know is a completly different boat, and my Huntsman, prior to going to brushless. Unfortunately I have no specific data for the Huntsman, and no video evidence, but used a graupner 700 BB turbo 12v, direct drive, 50mm "x" prop, and ran it right at the top end of the voltage range, 19.2v. Without a cooling coil, the esc kept shutting down, which was a water cooled ripmax seasprint, with cooling coil, things got quite hot, but as the motors are relatively cheap, I thought if I had to change the motor ebvery 12 mo nths or so, then that would be ok. It was a very inefficient set up, but gave pleasing speed for 15 mins flat out.

I am sure that would horrify some peeps, not being able to chug around all afternoon, but thats what I wanted :} speed, and more speed, thats why I eventually went over to brushless.

Back to the fireboat, this has video evidence, something that should help you determine what to do. I tried the same setup as above, and also the 8.4 and 9.6v motors. These had very little difference in performance, and I again massively over volted them, I found through testing, to gain some "over scale" speed, you really have to push the volts up on these motors, whilst your motor is 9.6v, the nominal voltage range is up to 14.4v, and you really have to be up there to get any serious performance out of it. THis "on the edge" setup then cascades to the rest of the equipment. You will be pushing big amp draw now, and the esc needs to cope. If it has cooling pipes, use them!!. usually they are ther because the coolling plate is none existant, or inadequate, particularly with the cheap chinese versions. Similar esc's that are used on rc helicopters do not rely on cooling by water (obviously!) as there is a massive airflow over them, our boat escs do not have that luxury.

motor spec:
 Nominal voltage 9,6 V
Operating voltage range 4,8 ... 14,4 V
No-load rpm 15000 min 1
No-load current drain 2 A
Current drain at max. efficiency 12,5 A
Current drain when stalled 65 A
Max. efficiency without gearbox 75 %
Length of case, excl. shaft 67 mm
Diameter 42,2 mm
Free shaft length 14 mm
Shaft diameter 5 mm
Weight 320 g

regarding props, they are cheap, getr a couple, make sure they are "x" props, not "s" as they will drive better, I tested over 12!! and was very lucky to be able to borrow a serious collection, plus my own few, and others I had on some other boats. My hunts now has a propshop one, quite expensive, but I tested for almost 2 years to arrive at this, (have you read my build log, loads of info there?) Start small, I would recommend 45mm, and work up in stages. Water cooling is a must, and having a small restriction such as the esc is no problem, hope that helps!

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/pmdevlin/?action=view&current=newshamfulltimemotortests.mp4

poor video quality, but you get the idea,  :-))
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: Yamaha1 on February 15, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
Hi - hope you don't mind if I jump onto this thread for some advice from you Huntsman users.

I have just received the Precedent Huntsman 31, 34" wood hull kit - as i fancied something wooden to
get my teeth into. I was rather surprised that a plan doesn't seem to in the kit - although I haven't yet
undone the wood packs, for fear of loosing any bits before I start building!!

I am assuming the standard setup would be a single motor/prop drive - but several of you have said a twin
setup is a lot better bet for the Huntsman? I haven't done any modelling for years, so to be able to build
a model without a plan seems strange to me!!

Anybody else built this Precedent kit? As I said, not having unpacked it yet, I really don't know if they
recommend a single or twin drive. It will be electric - but what motors to use has yet to be decided.

Any tips would be most gratefully received.

Mike
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on February 15, 2012, 05:42:51 PM
Hi - hope you don't mind if I jump onto this thread for some advice from you Huntsman users.

I have just received the Precedent Huntsman 31, 34" wood hull kit - as i fancied something wooden to
get my teeth into. I was rather surprised that a plan doesn't seem to in the kit - although I haven't yet
undone the wood packs, for fear of loosing any bits before I start building!!

I am assuming the standard setup would be a single motor/prop drive - but several of you have said a twin
setup is a lot better bet for the Huntsman? I haven't done any modelling for years, so to be able to build
a model without a plan seems strange to me!!

Anybody else built this Precedent kit? As I said, not having unpacked it yet, I really don't know if they
recommend a single or twin drive. It will be electric - but what motors to use has yet to be decided.,

Any tips would be most gratefully received.

Mike
as far as I know you should get a plan, I got one with a boat I bought not got it now though , if there is no plan get on to them
one of the main things is that the shaft is to far forward on the plans if you are going down the electric route (my opinion) so as it's a timber boat you can position it where you want . have a look at red181's huntsman 28 build /refurbish and he gives an idea where to put it. they go very well with a brushless motor in if you keep it light twin shafts would be nice there has just been a build of one on hear with twin shafts its a nice boat  the only problem is it means two of everything but at the price of brushless set ups these days it wont be to bad.
Peter
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: red181 on May 29, 2012, 07:05:35 PM
any news on this build, hopefully not another unfinished Huntsman project that bites the dust :((
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on April 08, 2017, 06:54:26 PM
Ok, so this was my topic but for some reason my account was deleted and I've had to create a new one.


So, now to explaining why I suddenly stopped posting about this project -


When I last posted was literally a week before I found out that my family (wife and 4 kids) were going to be made homeless,  suddenly everything was chaos and the boat had to be put on hold. My landlords wife had cancer and he sold the house amd gave us notice to pay for private hospital care, I can't hold that against him,  I would have done the same.


But life became very stressful for my wife and I, we ended up in a temporary emergency council house that was tiny,  it was a small 3 bed with no out buildings or garage and we had to fit 6 of us and the contents of a 4 bed with a conservatory full of kids toys and a garage full of all sorts into this tiny temporary home that we ended up being in for 6 months!


You literally couldn't move, we had moving boxes stacked 3 high everywhere with little passages between them to squeeze sideways through, it was ridiculous.


My wife and I started to argue and our marrage fell apart just before we were due to move into permanent accommodation.


She said I could store all my things in the  loft and shed of her new home until I had permanent accommodation for myself so I accepted but 4 months down the line she shacked up with some new bloke and totally cut me out, she has refused to talk to me at all since.


I went to the police about getting my things back but she lied and said she had never had them and the useless police said that they could do no more and left me screwed.


So as well as all my other items, she stole this boat from me and I no longer have it and it's unclear if I'll ever get it back.


Lifr sucks sometimes but it is what it is and she has shown herself for who she really is.


So now, nearly 2 years after we split I'm still trying to recover,  I loved that woman unconditionally and still do deep down so Ive now got myself back into hobbies to distract myself.


I'm into all manner of flying things,  I've several helicopters ranging from toy to hobby grade and 2 planes, these are running apm GPS guided flight controllers with arduplane firmware loaded, live video feed and telemetry overlay on the video feed. one of my planes has a wingspan of just over 6 feet!!!


But recently I've been working on a new boat but this is a totally different beast to the huntsman,  this is going to be fast electric,  it's a bare hull build and once my carbon fibre matting arrives I'm gonna be able to start the final fitting of everything,  it should shift pretty well, it's a 65cm hull and Im putting a 36mm 3400kv 1300w brushless motor in it and running it on 4s!!!


So there you have it, what happened to this threads project amd what I'm working on right now.
Title: Re: huntsman total refurb
Post by: stevesteve on August 05, 2017, 12:44:48 PM
Well I can now confirm that this boat will not be comming back, my wife took it to the dump along with absolutely everything else I owned, I mean everything, I had my car and the clothes I was wearing, she has literally chucked every possession I had apart from my brand new mig welder, she sold that!