Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Lifeboats => Topic started by: nhp651 on December 12, 2011, 10:16:55 pm
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It has always puzzled and sometimes perplexed me as to what people want and expect from a model kit and one of the reasons that I have defended most kit manufacturers in the past from comments such as overpricing of a kit.
Is it value for money, accuracy, built down to a price, top of the range perfectness, or do some just want something for nothing?
I worry when people moan at the price of a kit ( not the quality, but the price) knowing what that kit contains, and the pound for pound cost per hour of enjoyment and yes, frustration that they might have to overcome when they buy a model kit and wend their way through the build process to end with a finely built model that they can be proud of.
Few people actually out there who build kits (other than those who are involved in the design and development of a model kit) really know of the time and lengths that manufacturers go to, to bring that product to the modelling public, nor the time and costs involved.
And so, in this build blog of three classic lifeboats, I hope to enlighten those who think that a model can be produced on a whim, that there is a little more to it than that.
I first got into the game of designing kits when I worked preliminarily with the late great Frank Hinchliffe on his two original models for Mountfleet models, the Active Tug and the drifter Danny Boy. Frank taught me the art of centrifugal casting in white metals, for which I am eternally greatful.
However, my other skills for producing "kits".i.e. Grp moulding and plans drawing, and instructions writing, come from the profession that I had a career in for 22 years....as a teacher and eventually head of department in CDT ( craft, design and Technology where chronological and discriptive written reports and the art of technical drawing were paramount in that field.
After Frank and I went our separate ways in the mid 1990's I set to designing my first kit to go on sale, and that was the model lifeboat kit "Anne Letitia Russell" which is now marketed by Metcalf Mouldings.
Since then I have worked on other projects for both full kits and semi kits, and the three that will be the back bone of this build log will also eventually become full kits.
So, what does it take to design a kit from the ground up.......well, stick around, and hopefully I'll be able to show you the process...........a slow one but an enjoyable and rewarding one.
Firstly, you have to chose a subject that will not only inspire you to keep up the enthusiasm, but also one that might inspire others to want to buy the available kit once it has been released onto the market.
I think that the 3 that I have chosen to build here will both inspire and enthuse people to join our merry band and get involved in model boating.
So!! Bring it on!.
The three models that I have chosen, and had chosen some years ago were a continuation on a theme...three lifeboats (how did I guess, many will ask), and these have been worked on in small amounts for some six years now, between working on other projects for comissions, charity and some mayhem members!!, and have always had to take a back seat when a build has come along.
However as I am now in the final stage of the charity build, 9just waiting for the graphics to arrive ) I can see no more reasons to be interrupted by outside influences and so can get on with the builds with a clear mind.
The three subjects that I have chosen, 3 lifeboats are, in order of photographs ( and all built at 1:12 scale ),
1) RNLB Mary Stanford (of Ballycotton station,) a 51' Barnett, "Stromness" class lifeboat,
2) RNLB H F Bailey (of Cromer station) a 46' Watson class lifeboat
3) RNLB Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts ( of Beaumarris station) a 46' Watson class, and first boat in the RNLI to have central steering.
Pictures of the first two and sister boat to the third, shown below.
So, where does one start?
Plans of the boats were obtained either from the original station house that the lifeboat served at or from the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich.
What were needed were both G>A> (general arrangement) and line drawings for all the sections, profiles and plans.
And finally before I stop for the night, I'll just fast forward 6 years and put some pics up of the three models as they are in their present state, dusty, timbers curling from being stored in a damp out shed and cobwebbed.....much remedial work will be needed on the timbers but this is all part of the learning curve of modelling and life, lol
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I shall be sticking around Neil. As a kit producer myself, albeit on a small scale or should I say in a small scale there is always things one can learn from other endeavours in this field. I am in the process of improving my instructions and that's the easy part. It is hard to appreciate how much harder it is to produce commercial kit as opposed to a Kit of parts which you make for a scratch built model.
It's the 'mass production' part that makes all the difference and has given me a few headaches.
I took D&R at school. I would have loved to have been in your class.
Ali.
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Hi Neil
I am truly looking forward to your log. Re your opening question I can only answer as a newbie. Yes I was shocked when I first saw what kits cost - and that was without looking to see what was on offer inside inside the box. For that kind of money I would be always be asking for a recommendation from someone knowledgeable first. The one thing I would really expect is that the components actually fit - which from some posts on Mayhem it seems is not always the case.
Regards Dave
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if you want components to fit without trimming, go airfix part of building a kit is the fitting of parts as long as there there is enough waist to cut of . it's not IKEA. some people expect them to be pre painted, I think everybody has there own view of what is a kit those of us brought up on Aerokits expect to do a lot of work, even the likes of MHB kits you have to do a lot of cutting and fitting but there are a lot of high grade parts. if you want every part to fit you have to pay a lot of money for someone to pre build it , then if you put something in the wrong place nothing else would fit anyway.
my opinion
Peter
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you are all right, of course, and I have always equated a model kit to the question of "how many pints of beer could I buy for the same cost",
and then equate that cost and number to the amount of hours......... a) those beers give me when drinking them, ........and b) how many hours the kit gives me in building and then sailing it......
in that way, even a Speedline kit at £1000.00p works out very cheaply for what you get.
No kit is perfect in what it gives, or what it offers, but so long as the manufacturer has gone to the lengths of making it as good as he/she can, then the chances of the model being well received are greatly enhanced.
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Hi Lads
Trimming wouldn't seem a problem but undersize or twist would. I appreciate that you just don't want to assemble something.
But that aside I also feel that 'fit for purpose' is part of any deal. If Neil goes to great pains to produce a good product, then it
is not unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to keep faith with him on quality control. Beyond that if a buyer isn't happy with
the quality of a product be it kit, fridge, or drill he will tell others and that doesn't promote sales.
Re airfix - I built them planes as a little kid and usually blew them up with bangers after a while - happy days - I haven't thought
of that in forty years. :}
Dave
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Hi Lads
Trimming wouldn't seem a problem but undersize or twist would. I appreciate that you just don't want to assemble something.
But that aside I also feel that 'fit for purpose' is part of any deal. If Neil goes to great pains to produce a good product, then it
is not unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to keep faith with him on quality control. Beyond that if a buyer isn't happy with
the quality of a product be it kit, fridge, or drill he will tell others and that doesn't promote sales.
Re airfix - I built them planes as a little kid and usually blew them up with bangers after a while - happy days - I haven't thought
of that in forty years. :}
Dave
I see you have moved on to industrial fireworks now ;D O0 O0 {-) %%
Peter
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Now this is one of the best reasons that I can think of for being a forum member. I am for free going to get the whole package in one from a guy that knows what he is doing, no BS. I will be watching non stop. I have never felt that good well packaged kits or other items I have purchased were not good value. Where I get upset is the deliberate attempt to defraud me by selling junk in a fancy package. Good on you Neil & thanks for taking the time to do this. Mick B. PS = A member of the Ballycotton crew back in the 30;s to the 50's is probably the most decorated crew member in life boat history, he served for 39 years & saved 115 lives correct me if I am wrong.
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you are welcome Mick.Hope we can meet one day.
So what does it take to be able to set up even the basics of a cottage industry in order to build a kit for public market.
A very very tollerant and understanding supportative wife or partner for a start, and then s goodly amount of capital, even for a small start.
I had luckily just had to retire on ill health grounds form my teaching career and had been paid a lump sum and a pension......it was a start.
The old asbestos garage was taken down and a new concrete garage, 12' x 22' was built in it's place in 1994.It was lined with timber battens, fibre glass insulation between walls and insulation boarding and the ceiling treated with the same. It was professionally wired with trip boxes, emergency stop switches and countless plug sockets, and once all done, the perimeter benches were all made by yours truly. £2800 was spent on the bare workshop before tools.
Then came the expenditure of tools, A Myford laithe, second hand, £750, a band saw, £450, pillar drill, scroll saw and sander/linisher ..£250 and the coupe' de gras was a visit to Alex Tiranti in Reading where I blew 1500 quid on a centifugal caster and all the plates rings and ancilliaries. Then the multiple hand power tools added another £500 before I even started building a model boat..........it's amazing what few tools you use when building on a kitchen or bedroom table before you realise that you need them for ease..
It didn't stop there........I needed a large drawing board so bought a "Double Elephant" sized piece of block board ( so that it wouldn't warp in the cold atmosphere when I shut shop down in an evening) and then bought a parallel slide "square" plus french curves, set squares, Rotring pens and draughting paper ( the none rip kind.......).....another 400 quid blown.
Then it was time to start planning the build.......I would need large boxes, small boxes, materials and oh of course screen prints for the printed wooden matter...those alone cost me £300 to have made by a professional.
All the above materials would have to be bought in bulk........a hundred boxes at a time, 400 quid, thin and thicker ply woods in bulk ( 30 sheets minimum of each thickness and there were 3 thicknesses on the Ann Letitia Russell, brass tubing by 50' a time when the boat used about 6" altogether, chain and white metal for casting......dowels by the 100' to get decent prices, obeche block wood for bits and pieces and plugs, and then as I thought at the time not capable of producing an industrial strength set of moulding( which I found when I was forced to work on a remould) after the "professional" moulds started falling apart and they cost me 400quid to have made for the original mouldings, it added up to another £1000.00.........and this was all before I had even started building a model let alone sell it.
Even after selling the original masters to Metcalf Mouldings and what little I recouped from the few that I originally sold, minus costs including a donation from each sale to the RNLI for them allowing me to use their charity number and logo on my boxes, I reckopn that to this day, I am still no where near ever recouping anywhere near the amount initially laid out, but that is the chance you take.
This also does not take into a ccount the hundreds and hundreds of hours taken in developing the model, writing the instructions as you go, having them proof read and then re typed, plus the initial drawings, draughts and re draws pefore you feel that the plans are suitable for puplication, and finally the costs of photocopying amultiple sets of plans and anything up to 40+ pages of instructions and binding them.......all of which costs money.
I still keep the reciepts just to show what a folley it can be and So it isn't for the faint hearted.
That is why I defend to the hilt almost anyone who tries to do the same, against those who think that it is a piece of cake putting a model kit together as though it's a snap decision, lol....they make me cry rather than angry, as those just don't have a clue.
I haven't bothered to add the total up as it would frighten me, but just imagine the outlay that such as Model Slipway and Metcalf Mouldings have to set just to keep their prices as low as they can....it is frightening, and I was doing it on a shoe string.
the garage conversion and shed for storage
My band saw and other main tools
Now you see it, now you don't..the drawing board is hinged and folds up to the ceiling when not in use, giving extra very usefull space behind.
and finally the most important part of my workshop..my tv and digi box, lol
And now I've got that age old gripe off my chest and displayed to those none believers that kit suppliers are some how ripping off the public with high prices.....please think again.
I can now get on with the build process.
thanks
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Aaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh! I want one on each!! Now!!! {-) %%
Dribble....
Lance
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And I thought I was untidy.................
LB
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And I thought I was untidy.................
LB
WOT YOO MEAN?????............I tidied it up for the photo {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Neil - are your nostrils fitted with micro filters mate?
Top tip - all that workshop dust is fully disposable. O0
Re reading post - I never really thought about all the original set up costs.
Dave
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it's a good job I didn't photograph the floor then %% %% %% %%
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Neil,
Such a pity you spent all that money on equipment and there was none left for a dustpan and brush!!! :} :}
Bob
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Neil,
Such a pity you spent all that money on equipment and there was none left for a dustpan and brush!!! :} :}
Bob
{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-).even my young daughter won't do it for me, and she loves housework.......... <:( <:( <:( <:(
beginning to think this build log was a bad idea, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Those pictures remind me of the tombs in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt Neil - except there's not a Mummy in sight, let alone a Daughter....
Colin
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Neil,
Carry on I don't think any of us are beyond learning so I look forward to the rest of your thread!
One thing i might pull you up on is your costings .. are they not somewhat conservative / or / 1994 prices ? If my bank manager got wind of your start up costs i might be answering some uncomfortable questions! ..
Having said that i hope there is no charge in pinching your drawing board idea ... I like it!
Keep going!
Regards,
Kim
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Keep going Neil it is a warning to others to think first before going down the same route it is also a shame that it didn't pan out after seeing some of your builds now I see the amount of effort you put in to projects,it shows you need a lot of luck as well.
Peter
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Hi Neil if you don't clean up that shop you might be meeting me sooner than you think. I will be arriving with a garbage can ( notice the American influence here) & a big broom & the dust will surely fly. HOW do you build such beautiful boats in that rats nest, & just think what you could do if you could actually move about.Then again may be not good to think too much. I rest my case, the prosecution has spoken. Mick B. PS = I bet the wife stays a long way away. LOL.
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Those pictures remind me of the tombs in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt Neil - except there's not a Mummy in sight, let alone a Daughter....
Colin
in a stressfull pre school break up for christmas where the kids are running around like headless chucks.that quote colin, has had me in tears with laughter......thankyou......... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
daren't show it the misses though..she's been threatening to go in there for a spring clean for years......gawd....I'd never find anything again............HELP!!!!!
only joking about bad idea to post, lol
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daren't show it the misses though..she's been threatening to go in there for a spring clean for years......gawd....I'd never find anything again............HELP!!!!
thats why it took a while to find the severn {-)
looks like another great project on the go neil, keep up the good work and we look forward to your word of wisdom and guidance :-))
stubbsy :-)
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I notice you are very Safety conscious though, with a lifejacket on the lathe in case you feel you are going under!
keep up the good work,
Chris
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I just love the adjusting bag FITTED to the cross feed on the lathe, obviously a new design feature. LOL. Mick B.
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and I thought you lot were my friends..been thrown off worse sites you know..........I only ever get this abuse from my kids and my mates down the pub.............
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HOW do you build such beautiful boats in that rats nest,
that is a mystery to me also, Mick, %% %% %%
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Well,............... So now I'll begin the build.
I'll be using photos of generic models to display my techniques, as I hadn't 6-7 years ago when I started building these moulds even heard of Model forums never mind joined them and so never took step by step builds of my models, and so will be using pics from different builds to illustrate what I mean.......please don't let me confuse you and if you need to ask questions then do ask.
Also I am always open to suggestions in order to improve my own techniques and knowledge. My way isn't the only way, but just the way I find easiest for my own buiding methods.so shout out loudly if you know a better way.
My intentions were when I designed my first lifeboat kit, was to bring a model to the public that even someone with limited experience and tools could actually built. I never expected someone to be able to diagonally plank a hull with complicated tunnels to line, or belting to construct on the bulwark edges of a classic lifeboat, nor did I expect someone to "plank" the cockpits of a classic lifeboat with thin strips of teak or mahogany to simulate those beautiful cabins, and so set about thinking how to make it easy for the modeller.
I also desided from the outset that the plans would be full exact size AND the instructions would be written by a modeller ( with the gift of the gab) for the modeller, in modelling terms.............and those concepts have remained with me to this day.......a boat easy to build with plans and instructions easy to read and understand. I hope that those concepts have born fruit, as I believe the Anne Letitia Russell (ALR as affectionally known ) is the highest selling model lifeboat on the market.....probably others will contradict, but hey ho.........I'm proud of her, and that is something that can't be taken from me.
So what did I decide about construction methods............I was going to make the hard bits from GRP and the rest of the build from good stout ply timbers and obeche'.
I had to begin somewhere and the first job was to construct a working plug of both the hull and the cabins out of some sort of material.
There have been numerous threads on forums as to what materials to use for a plug and believe me, I have probably tried all of them in my time, and will list, just for interest a couple of pro's and cons for each that I have used, but always remember that the finish you obtain on the plug, is the normally finished result on the master mould and the mouldings that go for sale to the public, and therefore if you want repetition of excellence you have to put in the time on the plug to attain this.just see here for what I mean....just astounding, but many many hours of hard work have paid off here. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31944.msg340701#new
1) keel and sections filled with polistyrene and skimmed with plaster of paris.........it's a quick initial method and a shape can be obtained easily, but it's messy, and I have never been able to get rid of the "ghosting" lines of the sections on the plugs and then an awfull lot of rubbing down on the master mould still leaves ghosting lines. My Interceptor 42' Pilot boat was made in this manner and the very faint lines could still be seen evenb after further work on the moulding that I took off for myself........I wouldn't use this method again.
2) solid bread and butter constructional carved hull in a timber such as obeche, samba or jelutong (balsa is far too soft a hardwood for this method in my opinion) has been used, and the finish you can get on these timbers as a plug is second to none.Modern pattern makers use these timbers now that Yellow pine ( the traditional timber for such) is virtually none existant at any reasonalbe price....last checked and it was twice the price of English Oak.I love this method on smaller hulls and the cabins, but on larger ones it becomes very unwealdy and heavy to turn around. However it is a method where the hull "stays where it is" .it doesn't twist in the process nor warp or bend and you get no distortion whilst building or carving.the only downside is that these wood's smell like old fish boxes when cut and carved....but living by the sea, that's an added bonus for me, lol. his can also be an expensive method of building
3) hollow bread and butter constructional carved hull, reasons are exactly the same as before, but less expensive if you jiggle the planks arround to get the greatest cuts from a board. Also the hull is far less heavy.heavy carving as with the method above also are tiring on the arms unless you use electric power carvers and planes to take off the vast amount of spare timber. But those two methods I strongly recomend.
4) there is a third method of this andd that is to set out on a building board the keel and frames, and then bread and butter each section, but this is a slow laborious method that I tried once, and to be honest it was a pain in the bum, and not to be recomended if you value your sanity.
5) use of MDF as a bread and butter "timber".yes, I have tried this method as well, and although some say that the dust caused can be a killer, ( literally as there are some who claim it is carsonagenic) it is the finish that is hard to achieve....No matter how many coats of varnish and sealant you put on MDF, as soon as you try to get a mirror like finish with wet and dry, used wet, the MDF soaks up the water you are using to lubricate the carborundum paper, and I found this method a pain also, and wouldn't recomend that either.
6) Every one's favorite method......POF or Plank on Frame with plenty of polyester filler to fill in the gaps.It is relatively quick and easy and I normally use obeche end blocks for the bow and stern, and this method is the one I used for the three boats I am going to build here.Because the plug isn'rt going anywhere other than the skip once you have produced the master mould from it, the planking can to some extents and purposes be as rough or as good as you want to make it, as long as you have plenty of filler to hand.It is a method that is light and easy to handle and also doesn't cost much to produce, unlike those B & B methods with Obeche and such, and for reasonable sized plugs, sop long as every thing is bolted down to a strong building board when construction is taking place to stop twisting, it is a good quick method., and usually gets my vote.
So on to the build itself.
First job is to get hold of a set of plans for the boat you want to build, including G A (general arrangement ) and line plans for the sections and keel, from which photocopies of the frame sections can then be cut and glued onto the ply wood boarding , and in this case 6mm birch faced ply.
Once cut these are mounted onto a base board to hold firm whilst planking. ( sorry but here are some generic models showing the sections and planking).
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Progressing on, the next part of the build is to detail the plug.
One of the most striking parts of the hull of an old classic lifeboat is the defence belting around the bulwark edge of the hull. This was placed around the boat to protect against coming along side a casualty ( read any old book on RNLI rescue and you will realise that even with these well built wooden boats this belting always took a pounding) and was built in layers, as is the belting on the model. It has to be cut semi through to take up the different curves of the hull shear line plus curviture of bow and stern.
Also placed on the hull at this stage are the markings for the "A" bracket positions, the Prop tube openings in the tunnels and the bilge keels.
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You'll see on the next to last picture that the height deck of the boat has been raised by about 6,, with a piece of MDF. this goes all around the hull raising it. The reason being that when moulding the extension will give a mould a little higher than needed, and this is to give an edge to the mould that is full of resin, and not whispy or feathery as they can be when approaching the edge of a mould.
Some people do, when moulding lay a full plate onto the top of the boat at deck level which allows you to mould onto it to form a flange from which you can trim the top of the hull.
Unfortunately with this mould, (as you will see later when I show pics of the moulds) you will see the reason why I can't do it on this 4 piece split mould.
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You know this is in pure fun & you have made yourself a very easy target, LOL. You are actually amazing at building, I wish I lived near you, I would have you really fired up, & I can guarantee if I was there the workshop would be organised. In our house I am the tidy one. My better half works on the layered effect, ie=anything that is flat can fit on top of anything else that is flat, how high it goes is optional. When she visits her mother a lot of things disappear,"no dear I never saw it" is my standard reply.The MOM visits have reduced a lot. This is going to be a thread for the ages, I can feel it coming on now. Again thank you. Mick B.
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thanks mick...your good lady sounds like me, lolif there's a flat surface, I cover it, lol.....usually with dust, it waits so long %% %% %% %% %%
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Well onto the next bit. The cabins............I try to work in time and motion mode and do the same sort of jobs all at the same time, and then if it's a nice job I enjoy it all and if it's a monotonous work then I get the monotony over in one fell swoop.
As I'm working on the belting and filling it to get the shape as shown on the profile from the plans, I start working also on the timber work for the plugs for the cabins. All my cabins are made from bread and butter solid timber. Obeche by preference, and I buy this from a local timber merchant......it seams that these days I am the only person in the area to buy the obeche from them, and although there is enough stock to last me my lifetime they haven't bought any now for more than 8 years.....it's well seasoned, and the best part about it is...they still charge me the price that it was when they bought it in 8 years ago......now that's a bargain, lol.............and it's about half the price of a relative piece of every day soft builders pine wood. Brilliant!!!
I cut the profile and plan of the timber for the shape of the cabins from a spare set of plans that I always copy to cut to pieces, I glue the cut boards for the cabins together using G cramps and spring clamps, and use an Aliphatic resin for a good bond, but I never plane the surfaces of the timber when I sandwich them together for gluing, just sand them lightly on the linisher.....I find no point as they will be filled anyway once set, and once the timber has been cut roughly to over size by a couple of mm all round to facilitate sanding, I set too with chisels, gouges and my favorite tool, my trusty spokeshaves....I have two sorts, a flat and a curved sole spokeshave, and wouldn't be without them for finer carving. I must point out here that I make the bottom thickness of the cabin overr sized in deapth to allow for moulding and also to allow shaping the bottom of the cabin to the sheer shape of the deck once fitted.
Once down to the good basic shape, any undulations or gaps in the timber is filled with polyester filler, and more sanding takes place with both power palm sander and hand held sheet , beginning with 40 grade grit, working down to a finer 120 grade.
Once the final shape is achieved I seal it with cellulose sealer, using many coats. This also goes for the hull which will have reached this stage also by now. Once the timber has been sealed, I give it multiple coats of filler spray and then grey undercoat from a spray can.
You can then see any minuter scratches left by the sanding and this can be filled with cellulose surface putty which is a scratch filler used by moror repair shops and avaiable at Halfords and such places. A tip here..you don't use a great deal when using on a model and it tends to gom hard in the tin once opened to air. after using it and putting it away for a while, I pour into the tin a thin layer of cellulose thinners. It keeps it nice and useable.
This is all now wet and dried down starting with 240 grade working up to 800 - 1000 grade carburundum paper, used wet to give a mirror finish to the plug. Finally it is given a couple of coats of polyurethane varnish which is again wet and dried down to give a good finish for moulding.......It all takes time but remember........... the finish that you get on your plug is the finish you have on the master mould, and is only as good as that plug with all the hard work. Moulds can be titivated up after wards, but there is no substitute for hard work. Estimated time to build a plug and cabins is around 140 hours from start to finish.the last shots shows the finish I try to aim for.
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Dont mind if I tag along for the ride do you Niel?
Having just started on this adventure myself, i am always keen to learn off the experts!!!!!
Not sure I could build the FEV plug out of solid wood though - my carving skills are not up to it..........but I am getting a very dab hand at applying filler and sanding it back off again.....
Carl
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Dont mind if I tag along for the ride do you Niel?
Having just started on this adventure myself, i am always keen to learn off the experts!!!!!
Not sure I could build the FEV plug out of solid wood though - my carving skills are not up to it..........but I am getting a very dab hand at applying filler and sanding it back off again.....
Carl
of course you can Carl........and that's what your right hand is for.......applying plenty of filler.......I make no bones about it....where would I be without body filler.......a must for modellers.......long gone are the days of plastic wood, lol
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After much work preparing the plugs for taking GRP it is now down to the preparation of making a mould capable AND SUITABLE of producing multiple mouldings before needing replacement.
It is imperative that on any plug, there is a good build up of a protective layer between the plug itself and the layers of GRP/polyester resin that go to make up the mould. Polyester resin will eat into any surface unless there is a barrier to stop it doing so and this process has to be halted when mould making or everything will just become one mass.
To stop this a first barrier is obtained by waxing the surface of the plug. this is done in subsequent layers of a release agent wax........not just any wax, as most use silicons in their make up, and this will react with the polyester resins and form a breakup of the surface layers that come into contact with a silicon based wax and this results usually in a rippling or orange peel effect. NO!, the release wax to be used is a special none silicon based product, and I buy mine (as all my supples from Glasplies in Southport: http://www.glasplies.co.uk/ )
Release agent wax:
I will usually give my plugs a minimum of 6 - 8 layers of this wax, polishing off thoroughly between each layer to build up a beautiful and resilient shine and coating on the plug.
Next job is to prepare my working area, and put my most important item in good clear view, for self explanetory reasons, as any distraction can cause mayhem, lol
I then arange a good clear working space with plent of access all round the plug and arrange my "tools of the trade".....my containers for resin, measuring bottle for catylist, weigh scales for resin , my stippling brushes, and my scissors for cutting the matting when needed. Some people use metal ridged rollers for rolling in the resin into matting, and although I have used them for larger projects in the past( 16' canoes) I tend to find that on a 51" mould they are more trouble than they are worth and so don't use them for close in work. However I do use a variety of thicknesses and sizes of brushes to get into tight little corners and gaps.
And finally the chart for calculating the amount of catylist per resin needed for each mix.
Next it will be on to preparation of the plug for actual moulding.
The table for catylist to hardener is set at recommended ratio fro working in an ambient temperature of 60 degrees farenhiet.......if working ina temperature lower than that then this can be increased by upto 15% with no ill effects to the moulding proceedure, but no more really as it will make the curing process "artificial" and a brittle cure can happen to the mould.
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Oh yes, forgot to talk about the other important part of any mould.......the glass fibre matting.
Although woven matting is a lovely and neat way of making a mould with superb finish quality I myself have found it hard to work on smaller moulds...difficulties in getting round almost right angle edges and into sharp areas such as the bow and stern of a boat have caused me to dispense with this type of material and I tend to go for chopped strand matting, and use a 1 1/2 oz weight for my moulding purposes.
Even this I find a little thick for moulding round edges already mentioned, and what I do is (rather than buy the 1oz weight for the same cost)is to cut my matting into smaller manageable pieces that fit into the mould in places with odd shapes, and then split the matting to actually get two layers out of one. It gives me better impregnation of resin into the matting and less chance of air bubbles and "dry spots" in the mould.
This can make for a heavier mould as a little more resin is used, but personally I don't feel that to be a bad move at all.
and splitting the matting is an easy task!
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How do you clean out your stippling brushes Neil? Or do you not bother and just get the DIY cheapies each time?
Cheers
Lance
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they are cheapies, Lance, but being a tight squeekie sob, I wash them out in acetone after I have finished a section of a mould............( probably costs me more in acetone if I really sat down and thought about it...but not too cheap as the bristles come out .usually as I'm laying a gelcoat, lol...and that really is a bummer seeing a black hair in a lovely white gelcoat, {:-{ {:-{ )they'll keep soft till you finish working, and then a thorough wash in the stuff, and let the brush dry thoroughly for a couple of days, AND use another brush for the next section or the acetone in the brush might react with the resin/gelcoat.......I keep two of each type on the go and use them alternately.
neil.
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MOULD BUILDING
The most important and most critical part of any mould making is to be able to remove the moulding from the mould as easy as possible. No matter how well prepared the moulds are with release wax and agent and no matter how smooth the mould is, the nature of the material that you are working with, poyester resin has a propensity and urge to stick to the "item" that it is laid up against, and if you are laying polyester resin against polyester resin then it will try to stick to it with gusto. And so you have to try to eliviate that problem as much as possible.
Professional mouldwers of high volume and large mouldings have the added luxuty of being able to separate mouldings from moulds by building into their moulds, pressure outlets that they can connect either warm water jets or compressed air in order to separate mould from mouldings.sadly the modeller doesn't have these luxuries and also tends to put onto his plug as much detailing as possible, which also hinders mould separation. As such the modeller has to use guile and some brute force, and unless a little physics is employed, he/she can ruin a mould first time he pulls a moulding out of the mould.
To this, we tend to use "split moulds", i.e. the mould is made in more than one part and then held together using bolts before laying up the moulding.
When I designed my first lifeboat for moulding I had built into the plug the keel skegs ( later left off wioth subsequent models and added later in the build) and this posed a problem in that if I made the mould as just a two part split like most other model moulds, I wouldn't be able to extract the moulding because the tunnels, the bilge skegs AND the protective belting would all act against each other and prohibit removal without either breaking the mould or breaking the bilge skegs off whilst removing the moulding from the mould.
carefull thought decided that the moulds would have to be, ( instead of a singler split down the centre) a three part split, giving a four part mould, and the second and third split would have to be along the centre line of the belting for to aft.
The diagram below shows the splits in the mould flanges and the black arrows show the direction of pull of the parts of the mould.
All my subsequent lifeboat hulls have since been built this way, and they "pop" out perfectly.
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Now, those "flanges" that form the splits to the moulds have to be moulded in to the moulds at the time of moulding and therefore something removeable has to be placed onto the plug in order to mould upto to form the flange.
The process is to make ( with such a four part mould) one quarter of the mould, usually the largest part ( and in this place the bottom half) and once it is set then take the removeable flange away and then mould up to the (by now) set and cured grp flange.
The temporary flange is held onto the plug by foul means and fair. on such a long one as the Mary Stanford, I usually set up wooden battens at deck level to screw the ply or hardboard flange too and hold steady with a central support as in the photo. I back fill any gaps between the flange and the plug with moulders plastecine, and secure the flange to the plug with blue tack. see all photos for this set up.
the photos also show the flanges for the cabins, but because of their simplicity these are made just in a single split mould giving two halves.
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This is the finish between flange and plug that you are aiming for, to give a smooth edge to the mould to plug fitting.
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Now comes the actual messy work of Laying up a mould.
1) the plug, which has been pre waxed as mentioned before, has now to take a layer of PVA release agent......similar to a pva glue but much thinner, I tend to put some into a margarine dish and apply with a soft sponge giving an even layer. You will find that it bubbles and runs because of the wax, but with continued light rubbing with the sponge as the agent dries you will find that it will "wipe out" eventually and go on in an even coat. This is water soluable and the residue can be removed from the mould later with warm water. Allow this to dry thoroughly or it will react with the first coat of the moulding process giving a rippled orange peel effect.
2) A gelcoat has to be laid as the first layer and I personally like to colour it with a white pigment.really should colour it with a different colour to the actual white mouldings, but just my preference. This is the hard and protective outer/inner coating to the moulding/mould respectively, and must be covered by the layers of polyester resin/chopped strand mattings (as usually recomended by the manufacturers of the resins used) within 24 hours AT THE LATEST or de lamination might take place, as the resins bond to the gelcoat and make a good attachment.
3) I usually lay up my first layers of chopped strand matting to the gell coat within a couple of hours of the gel coat layer "gowing off"
I have my chopped strand matting cut to small usable pieces, split in to two layers, and mix about a pound - 2 pounds of resin at a time, and even in a warm workshop of about 18 - 20c I have time to use all that resin without it going off, giving a good working time.
Subsequent layers of matting/resin can be coloured with resin colouring pigment should the desire be there to do it...sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
Stippling hard and none stop , working the matting into corners you aim for a good airtight and bubble free finish.
Picture below shows woring on the first half of the cabin up to the flange.
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These shots show the shape of the longitudinal flange running along the length of the keel and the flange running around the centre line of the protective belting, with the gelcoat added for the first quarter mould.
Once the gelcoat had "gone off" and the matting and resin has been added, which I normally build up to around 4 -5 layers all over for a production mould(not for a moulding though which would be considerably lighter and thinner) it is left to cure for around 48 hours, and then the flange running around the belting ONLY is removed and the second quarter of the mould...the small part above the belting to the deck level, on the same side is moulded in exactly the same way as before.
This is why the deck has been extended upwards to give a little higher edge to the mould, and hopefully because it has been extended in the laying up process, will be well knitted together without any air bubbles on the edging, when trimmed back to the correct hight for trimming off the mouldings inside. You will now also see that to put a flat flange over all the deck to mould up to would be impractical with such a mould as this.
In these shots you can see the battening that holds the main flange to the plug running down the keel. it is screwed on so that it can be easily removed when the laying up process is done to one side of the boat plug.
However before this, the now new and exposed grp flange from the first quarter moulding is treated to the same preparation as the plug...5 - 6 layers of wax, rubbed down and then PVA release agent applied. This release agent can be seen in the next shot of the cabin both to be moulded and after the first half of the mould has been laid up.
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Hi Neil
I am certainly taking notes - thanks for doing this thread. O0
Dave
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Of course the most important part of kit manufacturing is the white labcoat, it makes you feel far more intellectual when wearing it, especially when combined with goggles. Plus, being long it's a fantastic place to wipe dirty hands....
Andy (will show you what I'm on about tomorow ;) )
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you obviously weren't taking notice of the lesson, then andy....
100 lines "I must look at the pictures more closely"......
i was wearing my special latex gloves......no dirty hands on me that day!! {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Oh yes, I do too, however I still manage to get my hands and infact everything covered in pigment..... %)
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in the immortal words of Captain Mainwaring......."you stupid boy"
I'm like that with RTV moulding rubber, lol
neil.
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Like I said, makes you feel far more intellectual....
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSC05583.jpg)
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What no hair-net when using a pedestal drill tut, tut. {-) {-)
as for the fine adjustment tool well 8)
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That would be doing something according to health and safety rules, which I don't do ok2
Plus, common sense would dictate that I'm not going to stick my hair into a milling machine.....
The 'fine adjustment tool' is for getting the little man to talk, I suspect he's a spy.....
Andy %)
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What no hair-net when using a pedestal drill tut, tut. {-) {-)
as for the fine adjustment tool well 8)
Blimey he don't need a hair net that is as short as i have ever seen his hair. There must have been some spare Gas & Air in Newport if Andy has had it cut.
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he looks almost human {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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he looks almost human {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Hi Neil
I think it's LOVE
Ah {-) {-) {-) {-)
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
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dodgy having long hair. i know, ive got my rapped round my propshafts 3 times now tryin to listen to wear vibrations are coming from. you would think youd learn {:-{
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{-) I would thought you would have too
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WARNING WARNING
Remember David beat Goliath O0 O0
{-) {-) {-) %% %% %%
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Think We need to drag Andy to a hairdressers hold him down and give him a No3
GET A HAIRCUT LAD
Dave
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dont andy you must rebel!!
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Had one 3 weeks ago %)
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Had one 3 weeks ago %)
That is toooooooo frequent and can lead to Baldness. O0 O0 %% %%
Here in OZ we keep good heads of hair so the harsh sun does not fry our brains O0 O0 ;) ;)
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The one I had before that was about 6 months ago so I think I'll be ok %)
Sorry for hijacking your thread Neil mate :P
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Yes please Neil, back to Lifeboats far more interesting and informative. :-)) :-)) :-))
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narh.this is far more enjoyable..... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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narh.this is far more enjoyable..... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
I would rather take the mick out of Andy as well.......... Much more fun.
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narh.this is far more enjoyable..... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Ah well, as Martin has named the forum "Mayhem", %% %% who are we to contradict him. O0 O0 {-) {-)
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Oh al right then, if only for Andy's sanity and well being, here goes for another bit of brain bashing.
the first quarter has now cured and the flange around the protective belting has been removed (but not the flange running the length of the keel).
Now the grp matting and resin is laid up to the upper part of the belting and alloud to cure.With this small area I tend to use shortish strips of matting around 6 - 12 inches in length and around 3" width to build up the layers, one length of the boat at a time so that a good even level of layers is achieved.
this is then allowed to cure again for 24 - 48 hours.
Once the second quarter has cured, the whole process begind again with the other side of the boat, by firstly removing the flange from the full length of the keel. The exposed grp flange must again be fully polished up and release agent added before any gell coat and resin/matting is applied, and the flange for the belting is again added to make the third split in the mould.
It is a long and methodical process to produce the mould, but if time is taken to lay the matting up slowly, carefully and with passion, you can avoid air bubbles in the mould and should end up with a "tool" that will give you a good number of mouldings from the same mould before it has to be replaced.
below is a number of shots of the finished mould in four parts and trimmed up.
However at this point the mould will still be "green" and needs to be stored correctly with the plug still in place for 48 -72 hours to allow it to cure well, or any subsequent moulding taken from the mould may come out twisted, warped or even hollow bilged...............i.e, you lay the boat on it's keel and a hollow can be seen where the keel doesn't run flat.........although this can also be caused by taking the moulding from the mould in a "green" and uncured state......so!!!, take your time and have patience.
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One of the worst things about GRP are the very nasty splinters that you can pick up in your hands if the mould isn't cleaned up properly...they hurt, they get infectec quickly and they are a real nuisance, so before anything else is done, the whole mould must be trimmed up......I tend to use a power file to trim down toa smooth edge once I have trimmed the edges of the flanges with a jig saw using a diamond tipped blade.
The Flanges then need to be marked for drilling, and drilled with a 6mm hole to take 6mm roofing bolts 30mm in length. Spaced at intervals of around 4" apart, and about half way between the edge of the mould flange and the inner plug the holes are drilled and cleaned up.
Finally the mould is ready for splitting. I start with the Protective belting flanges first, and, using either wooden or nylon V shaped wedges ( NEVER EVER USE CHISELS, SCREWDRIVERS OR ANY STEEL WEDGES)you can generally, with a few taps from a wooden mallet, find a starting point to drive in your first wedge.Just use a little brute force and some physics to drive in wedges along the length of the flange, and as you get towards the middle of the flange, you should hear a lovely satisfying "crack" as the release agent does it's job and the mould parts company from the plug, and you let out a sigh of relief that all the preparation that you have done to the plug has worked it's charm. It really is a great feeling, as the unknown becomes the reality and you find that you have a great mould. Just repeating the process with the second belting flange, progress is now made to split the main parts of the hull. All goes well, and an inspection of the new mould shows that a good moulding can now be taken from the mould.....approximate time to lay up a four piece mould including preparation of the flanges and lay up time .........about 40 hours.
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Andy, which hair did you cut & could we have a picture please. Mick B.
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Now that the mould has been split and the plug removed the former can now be cleaned up and washed down of all the release agent.
they now need to be looked at and any problems sorted. this can be anything fromsmall indentations or pinnacled left by an uneven plug to full blown repair of air bubbled in inaccesible corners where they formed on lay up. you can usually hear them rather than see them and if you go around the mould with a pencil, tapping the mould you'll get a hollow thud if there is an air bubble behind the gell coat. to remedy this, a sharp craft knife under the gellcoat will pick the surface coating away to leave the matting underneath.
It's a simple job to mix a small amount of resin with a similar amount of gellcoat and pour into the hole left. Once it has set, simply wet and dry down to the level of the mould, but don't forget the hardener. Don't be tempted to fill the hole with polyester car body filler...it won't "gell" with it's surrounding grp and will probably pop out of the hole the first time you try taking a moulding from the mould.
I usually spend a couple of hours wet and drying the moulds down with 400 and then 800 grade wet and dry, used wet, with a little fairy liquid in the warm water to stop clogging.
Once the moulds have been cleaned off, it's ready to start again...with 5 - 6 coats of wax, and then a release agent.
Finally, it's a case of bolting the 4 pieces of the mould together and then onto the making of the mouldings for the cabin and the hull, and now it is made in one piece.
I won't go into the process of making a moulding other than to say, it's exactly as making the mould...gelcoat first into the mould, and then covered once gone off with layers of matting cut to shapes easily to fit the spaces and shapes of the hull.
|The only thing to watch with the making of the moulding inside the mould is that if you get the matting too wet towards the top of the bulwarks they will fall in on themselves. here it is best to do one side of the mould at a time with the mould laid down so that the one side you are working on is at the bottom and laying horizontal. The bulwarks of such a mould as the lifeboat with the large indentation as the protective belting can weigh heavy when full of resin, and as such far easier to do one side at a time.
And finally after all that work, out pops a nice set of mouldings.
However in the next post, I'll show you what can go wrong if you forget something.....even big heads like me, make a balls up of it now and then.
neil
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The following two shots are what can happen if you forget to put the catylist hardener into the first mix of resin which goes straight onto the gelcoat...instead of hardening the mix just carried on burning and eating into the gellcoat, and if not removed quickly would have also eaten into the mould and ruined that too.
This happened on the first moulding of the Clyde lifeboat I made last year, when at the criticle moment of pouring the resin, I got a telephone call inside the house.
When I had finally finished talking 5 minutes later,( not criticle in the tme lapse of the resin............but very criticle to my memory lapse........I forgot to put the catylist in the resin mix, and laid up a full coating of resin and matting without hardener......and this it what happens.
Luckily it wasn't during the laying up stage of the actual mould.
Of course the moulding was useless, but I had to continue laying it up with subsequent layer of matting and resin laced with hardener so that I could get it out of the mould...........and quickly
Even then it was a very messy job clearing the unhardened resin from the mould........very messy indeed. So, take heed of my notice pinned to the shelf over my laying up area!!
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Any way, that is the EASY BIT out of the way....
The thinking cap goes on now, %% %% %% %% and all the development work comes to the fore...solving the problems, that hopefully won't be tranfered on to the customer to sort out, and give them a model that should, if instructions are followed, be plain sailing.
neil.
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Absolutely FASCINATING ---- and terrifying ---- in equal measure :o :o :o
Thank you Niel --- this just makes me more determined than ever to get it right :-)) :-)) :-))
Carl
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Well, Carl, if you think that was fascinating.........and terrifying, then this will surely test the metal.
It is now the planning stage of the build.
It's ok building one for yourself, because any mistake that you make can be covered up in the build of your own boat, but if you make a mistake when planning this, then the mistake will be manifested into as many models as are sold in kit form, and each mistake will maifest in complaints to the manufacturer, complaints onto forums such as Mayhem......(we've all seen them, and at times I have been guilty myself of pointing mistakes out to manufacturers)......and as such have tried my best to overcome ANY and ALL mistakes before they got into production.
This is not now a case of building a model and just describing how you did it and overcame problems.....the idea is to overcome those problems for the customer, so here goes.
Sketches and hours and hours of just looking at a model hull and cabins takes place whilst I formulate my ideas as to how the cabins will be supported on a deck and how the deck itself will be supported, in order to get easy access to internals, and even things such as replacing a servo should one go wrong and stop functioning so that all aspects are covered.
How to you make a solid deck to support and yet give space for the well decks that occur on most lifeboats of this kind.
Each set of cabins for each lifeboat I am building is a completely different shape to one another so each set of deck supports will be different, in shape and position but ALL will be constructed in the same way.
You can see below in order how different the cabind are and therefore how differently the deck beam layout will be...no two class of lifeboats will be the same.
1) H F Bailey,
2) Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts
3) Mary Stanford.
NOTE WELL:.......the bases that the cabins are sat upon are not made until the last process, and are only being shown here to high light the different shapes of the layouts.
.
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So, what's the first stage.
Take the plans, and from them trace a centre backbone following the sheer of the boat and the inside shape of the bow and stern piece onto some stiff paper and cut out.
Tape some cereal boxsides together the length of the sheet of paper and cut the same shape out..........then try to fit into the hull..hopefully it will, probably it won't, lol
however, make sure that the sheer line of the boat does exactly follow the sheer line of the card cut out by placeing a 600 mm steel rule or similar straight edge across the boat hull, whilst the hull is supported squarely on the bench.
If it fits correctly and looks level, you can transfer this template onto a sheet of 6mm birch faced ply, making sure that the outer grain of the wood is longitudinal to the backbone, and not cross grained( as that would weaken the structure.
Cut out the longitudinal beam and then fit to the boat.
Note at this point there will be ABSOLUTELY NO notches slots or any other recess cut into it (as shown on the photo..this beam was cut some time ago before I ever thought of doing a build log).
and the picture below these two of the main back bone shows the approximate position of the cabins to the hull.
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Once the main back bone fits in snugly the next job is to make the bow and stern gussets that will fasten onto the top of the backbone. The bow one is made from 6mm ply as a good strengthener piece and the stern one although bigger is from 3mm ply and both will then hold the back bone straight and in the correct possition. At this point the first cuts into the backbone will be made to remove the section that is now taken by the thickness of each gusset. as these gussets need to fit flush with the original line of the beam and flush with the deck, the cuts will be 6mm and 3mm respectively, and can be seen on the back bone beam.
Also whilst at this point the flat plate for the Servo for the external rudder bar on the Mary Stanford will be made ( using a card template to get the shape and then transfered to 3mm ply. it can then be fitted to the back bone by ise of a slotted joint. AT NO STAGE IS ANYTHING CLUED IN PLACE at this moment.
see photos for the various additions.
the strange cut out in the stern gusset is for the rudder stering block on the Mary Stanford only, which will allow the servo arm to pass through and operate the rudder linkage arm.
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I thought the man in the white coat was waiting to take Neil away,and the rubber gloves were to stop contamination from any dangerous substances in the shed?
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Next, is to make the cross beams that attach to the main back bone.
These are supporting the deck at vital positions and have to be measured acurately in order to co incide with the positions of the cabins.
You'll see from the beams that they have a camber on them to begin with and when the notches are cut out to take the cabin supports later they (the notches) are cut parallel to the camber so that when it is all assembled finally the deck will still retain the camber from the centre to the side gunwails.
They are not cut tightly to fit the beam of the boat as they need to be taken in and out of the boat several times to line things up, cut joints and generally make sure things fit, but all have to be centred up together to make sure that the next set of cuts are parallel to the centre line of the boat.
These cuts are to take the next two sets of longitudinal beams that give side support to the cabins and the deck.
The longitudinal beams are exact copies of the main back bone, except for the gusseted areas at bow and stern and are cut to length once the cross cuts for the cross beams are marked up exactly to give a perfect square ladder frame that will eventually support the cabin base and the decks.
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The final cross beams are then made to support the rear larger well deck of the rear cabin, before a piece of 3mm ply is cut roughly as a base for the cabin.
this will eventually sit into all the beams and so they ( the beams ) will have to be recessed down by 3mm to allow the base to fit in and fit flush to the original deck level of the beams.
ONLY when all this cutting, recessing and jointing is done, and all the structure has been dry fitted with spring clamps both inside and out of the boat will it be ready for fitting, but ven then it is not glued and fitted into the boat.
Other parts have to be designed first befor some construction takes place.
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The final part of this long process is ( once they are all cut and shaped to the shape needed ) to alphabetically mark these pieces in order of their constructional priority and then they are all taken apart again and drawn around on draughting sheet, firstly in pencil and then drawing ink. They are drawn on this draughting sheet in their own seperate thicknesses, so that once all pieces of the same thickness can be then made into a screen print to be printed into parts for the "box".
All the parts for construction. be they hatch covers, seats inside the cabin, navigation light boxes.........will all be given this treatment and all, once made into the relative knock down parts, be transcribed onto sheets pf paper in order to make a screen print off, and all with their own seperate sheets for material and thickness.....it's all fun.
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Neil,
Out of curiosity, why did you pick Field Marshall & Mrs Smuts, rather than Henry Blogg?
Then you'd have two Cromer boats.
Lance
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I think that was exactly the reason, Lance...............rather than build two Cromer boats, I thought I'd share the station names around..........and also I like the name. FM and Mrs S...got a certain ring to it, lol
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Ah...
And there was I thinking all you need is a 45 footer single screw and you'd have the full set! :}
Lance
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yer forgettin' the single screw Liverpool Harriet Dixon, {:-{ {:-{
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The frames for both H F Bailey and Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts have now also been constructed and all items transfered to draughting paper ready for screen printing. the models can be seen below with both framework in place and the cabins and their bases in place, but not glued.
there are slight subtle diferences between the two.
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It's now time to put the frames aside and start working on the running gear which is supplied with the kit.
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Yes, see that they are similar but not the same.
Very very informative O0 O0 O0
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yer forgettin' the single screw Liverpool Harriet Dixon, {:-{ {:-{
Yeah, yeah... I forgot about the No. 2 boats...They also had a single engined Norfolk & Suffolk as well.
Are you using the same hull moulding for both the 46s?
Lance
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Yes Lance, as they had the same dims and were more or less the same boat, all taken from the same builders plans. It was only the two from Gorleston and Lowestoft boats, the Michael stevens and the Louise Stevens that had shallower drafts that would be a little off scale.
This is going to be my last set of postings until after Christmas as I've been banned from going in the workshop tomorrow, Christmas day and Boxing day, so won't be able to find my moulds, masters or fittings that I have done over the past 4 - 5 years until 27th December.
All the work that I have shown you so far has been done in stages over the past few years, because other work has come along that I have had to do for others, including a lot of charity work. As you can see it's not all plain sailing and hands on 8 hours a day, and it is the same with most of those who are one man bands.
Developement of new models takes second place to moulding, casting packaging of fittings , timbers, plastics..taking moulds to the moulders for new mouldings for customers, and a hundred and one other jobs that come first before the new development of forthcoming models, and as such with constant interuptions, the flow of work suffers, and a certain percentage of the time spent in the workshop on a new developement is in the thinking stage of what you were going to do next on your new model.............and then just as you are going to get on with the next part, the next piece of turning to produce that new fitting......someone will ring up with good news.....they want a new kit off you........or someine will ring up telling you your kit is a load of C*** because they haven't followed the instructions and the part won't fit correctly because they have cut it wrongly.............so you have to sort that one out as well, and the thread is again lost.........
It is no bed of roses, and not fun half the time, but the rewards of seeing people who have made a lovely job of one of your kits, sometimes just makes up for it, and that is probably why manufacturers keep on doing it......all they ask for is a little understanding and good will, without the jibes that they get.
So picking up the thread that I left before. I have now put the deck support frames to one side to now concentrate on the running gear.
Most classes of the old double ender motor lifeboats had different rudder set ups to each other class and so most models that are being developed have to have a different set of "fittings" to make them work, and my three models are no exception.
The Mary Stanford has a rudder attatched to an external rudder bar on the stern post, and the two Watson's although similar have different skegs to protect them and are set into the "deadwood" of the rear keel, and as such these skegs have to be built up from a sturdy material once the hulls have been moulded.
Leaveing the mary Stanford till last, I'll deal with the two Watson's first.
First job is to take a template in card of the recess that has been taken out of the rear of the hull ( and as both hulls are exactly the same) the one template will do.
You can see the area vaguely that has been cut out in the first photo.
Once the template has been drawn out on card, but not cut, and the piece doubled up to two templates it can be placed against the plans of the two boats, and the rudder skegs can be drawn onto the card so that it will sit in place into the apperture made when moulding the hull and then transposed onto a singe piece (each) of 6mm birch faced ply.
Also whilst drawing these skegs out, the shapes of the two rudders ( as, on the two different boats, they are both different ) can be traced onto paper and then transposed onto two different thicknesses of ply wood. The rudders are made of three layers of wood for the kit maker which will give then a rudder that once made will not twist on it's own rudder bar once it gets older or knocked from time to time, in a way shown.
The centre core is made from 3mm ply, the same thickness as the diameter of the rudder bar, withan outer skin on both sides of 1.8 mm ply. The rudder bar is set into a channel cut into the centre core with a right angled bend so that it cannot possibly twist once all glued together.
The other pictures show the different rudder skegs and rudders, cut out in ply and not yet glued together with water resistant aliphatic resin. The skeg with the two outer skins is from the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts, and requered this to give the effect of a trailing edge for the skeg to which securing lines could be passed through hols in the skeg when hauling back up the slip......these are not the "Ruffle" holes, which will be put into the skegs later, but just securing areas for rope ties
All of these pieces are then transfered onto the relevent draughting sheets associated with each particular boat and particular sheet of the same timber thickness to be used for screen printing, after they are dry fit to see that they actually do fit.
Finally the rudder for the mary Stanford can be made.
This is actually a straight forward transfer of a tracing of the rudder from the plans to 4mm birch faced ply, but the fitting is totally different with no less that ten white metal and resin fittings (some of these can be seen in the last photo) being used to make the assembly work......and these fittings all have to be made from masters first, and then set into moulds, and cast before you end up with a product that will make the whole assembly operational, but that's another story.
And that is where I stop until after Christmas........that process will be discussed once I can find my moulds for the stuff shown here and made some time ago.
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The whole process from start to final dry fitting of those frame works can take anything from 3 to 15 hours depending on how complicated the construction is, and also not forgetting that some of the beams and timbers may be cut wrongly or not fitting when put together and so new pieces have to be made.
It's not a case of at this or any stage that "Oh I'll correct it at the build stage"..by then it is too late as the pieces which have been screen printed will be ready for production run, and will be wrong.
So now it's onto the process of making the parts that go to build the kit....the white metal and resin fittings, and without them there wouldn't be a kit.
and just a note before a salutary thought to put to you.........each one of the ten + white metal and resin fittings that can be seen in the last posting picture above, took on average 1 - 2 hours to make, as the master for a mould..........and all were made in plasticard, not brass. If I had made them in brass, it would have probably taken twice the time to make each fitting.
But why do I make them in plasticard, myself............. reasons.....1) as stated it probably takes half the time, and 2) I can use plasticard masters with the technique of mouldning that I use...........but here's the real reason for all those who curse the cost of a kit.
The "big boys" in kit manufacturing use a different technique for making their moulds for centifugal casting.....on an industrial scale.
Whereas I can use RTV ( room temperature vulcanising) rubber for my moulds which will give me limited numbers of castings before they wear out, and because they are room temperature vulcanising ( setting and hardening) and as such I can put plastics that are succeptable to heat and high temperatures anfd therefore would melt and distort if put through a high heat process, the kit manufacturers such as Metcalt Mouldings and Model Slipway use a much harder and firmer rubber to make their moulds for industrial usage, and multi castings with hot (250 - 300 degree) liquid white metal.
This needs a rubber that will withstand such temperatures time and time again. And the only way is for them to use vulcanised rubber to make their moulds.
Where as I can place my masters into plastecine and mould one half at a time ( see my pics), those using vulcanised circular rubber blanks have to make their moulds in one shot.
And to do this they need a special machine.....a vulcanising machine at my last research was anything from £1500 for a well used second hand one to about £4 k for a new one.
This works on heat transferance through the hard solid rubber which is placed under a press with two parts, top and bottom, and the masters are placed inbetween these two blanks, along with a number of locating studs.
The machine is thermocontrolled to a temperature set, and once the temp inside the rubber is achieved, the press is wound down, thus imprinting the master into the two halves of the rubber, and then it's all left to cool. That is now why all the masters for such a process have to be made in brass and therefore much longer to make the masters.
I haven't counted the masters on any of the three boats I am building, but quite a few are generic with the other two boats that I have done and so will not need to be re made for a new boat.
However, the single master count ( not the actual number of white metal fittings in the kit) for the Anne Lettitia Russell is 182 seperate masters that had to be made. If each took an average of 1.5 hours ( and that is a very conservative cost of time) that is still 273 hours of solid time spent on developing the masters alone.
Then you have to "cut the rubbers"....make groves into them for the molten metal to run to the imprints of the masters before you can start casting.
Finally you have to work out how many of a certain fitting is needed for that boat/model and run a series of casts with the master mould to build up a set for a production mould. Say a set of stanchion is needed, at say 24 stanchions per boat..then you have to run that master mould at least 24 times to get out that number of single stanchions for a mould and then, after cleaning them all up, put them into a new set of moulding blanks, set the vulcvaniser to heat, and mould a set of moulds with 24 stanchions in them, not forgetting that you have to cut the moulds after cooling, yet again in order to take the white metal.
Oh but I forget..........where do you do the casting................well a centrifugal caster of course, but not a little piddly thing like mine.......No, one that has counter ballance weights and the full jobbie........an indistial scale machine and the last time I enquired about one of those, it was going to cost me, either second hand for yet again a well worn one, to the latest in machines that could take upto 12 inch moulds............errrhhh, between £3000 - £6500....and I'm now talkiing 20 years ago.
And that, my friends is just the start of it all for the "Big boys"..........so in just two moulding machines, not counting the cost of the rubber blanks which although initial outlay!!!
next time I'll take a look at making a few masters myself.
But just to start off with, the picture below shows a finished mould with a set of fittings which make up into the hand windless on the RNLB Mary Stanford...the masters for this took 42 hours to make from start to finish. All time, and it's amazing where tiome goes whin you don't have to think about it.
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Although I do now feel a bit guilty for moaning about the cost of a kit
I was just wondering Neil ..............
Could I have a piece of that nice chocolate cake please :D
Dave
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Could I have a piece of that nice chocolate cake please :D
Dave
Are you in delerium with pain Dave............I can't for the life of me see any chocolate cake.......but if I've missed it, it'll be my younger daughter, the one with the model building skills , that made it..........unlike me, she's definately multi tallented, O0 O0 O0
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The icing style is definitely different %% %%
Ned
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The icing style is definitely different %% %%
Ned
Flashy to say the least %) %) %)
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c'mon guys..gizza clooo.where's this b***** cake %% %% %% %%
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I can see the star in the centre of the cake and the two stable doors,but not sure what the other round items are?
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Our centrifuge moulds look more like ladyparts than cake {-)
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you lot'll be telling me next that these are ballast.......... rotten sods!
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No Neil, I think those are something to do with global warming ? are they not the icebergs that titanic hit? They look a bit too heavy to be asteroids (not the other things that are a pain in the A##e)
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nah mate......but if you put a little bramble jam and some ASDA special thick cream laced with Couvasier.....they are jolly yummy.....I can vouch for that, and as for the "chocolate cake".....a bit rubbery really, especially the cream on't top.
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I can't believe Neil baked rock cakes just to have a one line joke %%
Now that shows real dedication to his thread :-))
Probably had no flour so used workshop dust {-) {-) {-)
Dave
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the one big question is......what are you doing up at half past one in the morning, thinking about cakes.........GET A LIFE MAN!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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He tripped over a sleeper and now can't sleep
Ned
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
sorry dave........I shouldn't laugh at other peoples downfalls
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I can't believe Neil baked rock cakes just to have a one line joke %%
Now that shows real dedication to his thread :-))
Probably had no flour so used workshop dust {-) {-) {-)
Dave
Is this an example of quote between a rock and a hard place %) %) %)
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the one big question is......what are you doing up at half past one in the morning, thinking about cakes.........GET A LIFE MAN!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Neil 01:30 feels like 11:30am to me - I am a night worker 99% of the time (that is why I fell over on X'mas daytime - I've only got night vision mate).
So even when I am off work on hols I go to bed about six and get up at ten. Any more sleep than that and I get a headache O0
Dave
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a night owl.............. O0 O0.....well, sorry mate..........i'm now just off to bed, can hardly keep my eyes open, so going to hit the sack....see ya tomorrow with an update...might even get some building done tomorrow instead of just gassing about it all, lol
neil.
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Well, I suppose I've whinged on enough about how much effort and preparation plus the big expense it takes to get a model kit off the drawing board and into production to put off all of the most hardenned nutters in the game that there are only three more jobs to do before the kit can be marketed.One is to write the set of instructions, and this is written ( i myself do it in long hand with all measurements taken and step by step process AS I ACTUALLY BUILD IT) and then convert onto the computor with spell check ON, and draw all the diagrammes for construction (free hand at first and then convert onto A3 drawings to begin with.finally reducing size on a photocopier to fit 4 or more to an A4 size sheet, draw the full size working drawings with all fittings corrulated to the list of parts on the instructions page, and finally build the prototype model from all the sums of the parts.
the build time of the model itself is probably a little longer than the average builder will build the kit...say about 600 hours.making sure that all parts fit, another 50 hours to write the instructions, convert them onto the computer( that includes the sectional working drawings of all the parts and another 20 - 30 hours to do draghts of the plans and then final working drawings.
And there you have it.....I haven't totted up the total amount of hours spent on developing a kit, nor what you would be charged if a "professional" on "professional wages" such as mechanic at your local garage would charge.................I don't want to frighten myself, never mind others who would want to start up in the "game"............I'll let you do that, lol.
But I'll now get down to just building the three prototypes.
As all of the models I have built in the past ( and I do not count the Rother class lifeboat that Dave Metcalf produces, as I had no input into that model what so ever but it is included in this next statement)......... they are all of what we call the "Classic double ender" lifeboat era, from the mid 1920's up until the final Rother was produced in 1982 and all used certain generic parts to their builds, and as such certain fittings from one model can be used on another boat with reasonable scale correctness.
Although certain minor differences might occur they are not too great that (say for instance) the stanchions on the Rother can be used for the Barnett, and the "A" frames for the tail shafts on the Rother can be used for the Watson class 46' boats, and also used with these brackets, the feet from the little Liverpool class boat can also be used for the Watson on the ends of the Rother A frames.
It makes life a little easier and for all but the very purist in lifeboats( and that is why I try to stick with the classics rather the modern fast afloat boats) if brings the old classic lifeboat into the relms of the model builder who would normally be put off by trying to manufacture those difficult parts like the beltiing and propeller tunnels.
Also as more of these classics are developed, the more the range of fittings are available to build into them, and to be honest, with the final sets that are to go on these three boats, there will be very few fittings now left that aren't available to build the type of boat you desire.
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So, finally to the build.
First job will be to clean all the moulding marks from the belting and the keel and stem/stern posts ( of which I have omitted to do on the prototypes at the moment.
Next is to fit the running gear of prop shafts,A frames and then rudders.
I found that I only had one set of brackets for the Watson, and had had to in the past, make up a new set ( as there were no generic ones to fit ) for the Barnett, Mary Stanford....and so I'll just run through the steps to make a set of brackets first. these would also be normally cast in white metal after moulding.
Take a round of brass to make the bearing that will be inserted into the boss of the A bracket, and using a laithe, drill the centre with the diameter of the propeller shaft, ( in this case 4mm) and then shape the bearing in the laithe, putting on a flange at one end, and the outer diameter to ( in this instance) 6mm. set aside.
Take a round of brass for the hub of the bracket boss, and centre drill for the hole to take the bearing, which will be a 6mm hole to take the 6mm outside diameter of the bearing. The bearing will then eventually slide into the boss.
Shape the boss in the laithe to that shown on the set of plans, use carburundum tape to clean up, and then using a parting tool, cut off the boss from the brass round. Repeat this process for the second boss for it's twin A frame.
Take some length of flat bar ( or if needed shape the bar with a file,/grinder/sander if you want to get the profile of the legs exactly as per boat....but that's for the purist) and jigging up, silver solder the legs to the boss at the correct angle required on the plans. cut the legs to fractionally over length, and set aside for a few minutes.
Take a length of nylon rod about 10mm longer than the length of the boss......this is to go through the boss of the A frame which will go into the rubber mould with the A frame assembled.
Make a rubber mould from two layers of RTV rubber as in the pictures, using lego boxes and plastecine for the process of moulding.
The box is made and a layer of plastecine is put into the box...............the part to be moulded is pressed into the plastecine half way ( this is the process, using RTV rubber for any fitting part) and the round of nylon is moulded in the rubber.Also small impressions are made into the plastecine for locating pins to form in the rubber, in order to stop the mould from sliding later when moulding, ( thus giving an overlapped mould, which would be useless)
Rubber is poured into the exposed half of the fitting and alowed to set, usually overnight.
Once set, the plastecine is removed to expose the unmoulded half and the exposed rubber of the first half is sprayed with a release agent, so thet the two halves of the mould won't stick together. Pour into the seconf half the RTV rubber again to finally cover the master that you have made.
Once cured, remove the rubber from around the master revealing a berfect female mould of your master.
Cut track ways for the metal to flow in, airways for the trapped air to escape, take the nylon out of the master and put back into the rubber mould, put the mould between a sandwich of two pieces of 4- 6 mm ply , hold together with clamps and pour into the access hole your white metal......allow to cool and then remove the moulding from the mould.............remove the nylon rod from the mouylding....and Hey presto...you have an A frame with a hole running through it for the bearing.
The process is shown below for making an A frame in pictures. the brazing hearth is a constitute material called Vermiculite and obtained from such a place as this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Mat-Pad-Brick-Board-Brazing-Hearth-/120799566544?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D260898624510%26ps%3D54
and is very cheep for what it is..can be cut with a saw, made into any shape and is just superb for brazing.
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Next step is to insert the running gear into the tunnels, and this is done in the usual way of making a first drill hole centrally as to where the prop shaft is going to exit the hull, and elongate it using a smaller serated drill bit so that the prop tube will lie true to the A btacket and not "bind" the shaft.
slight alterations have to be made on the A frames used from the Rother class for the Watson..the feet moulded onto the frames are cut off in favour of flange brackets from the liverpool class boat which fit over the legs.
Shown in pictures below.
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Neil, I think I got it after the second post, 4 is a bit of overkill :P
Just a thought, have you thought of using 'oilite' for the bearing/bush in the A-frame??
Mark.
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hi matey.. it's this 504 gateway time out thingy............... sorry . what a pain!!!..... <:( <:( <:( <:(
will delete them and ask the mods to delete the bits not needed.......it's a pain......as for oilite, not heard of that .can you post a link please.
cheers,
neil.
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Manufacturers name for what you probably know as sintered bushes Neil
Ned
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cheers, guys.............will have a search for those.
neil..........I used sintered bronze for the first time ever...and didn't know what I was using, ( some one had given me a lump of it years ago.) when it kept ooozing oil, on the master for the ship's bel for the Clyde lifeboat........lovely stuff to work with though, must say.
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Oilite is 'oil impregnated sintered bronze' ideal for prop shaft bushings :-))
It's available in stock sizes - e.g. 4mm id 8mm od 10mm long, (flanged or plain), custom, or maybe better for you as bar stock.
TBH, it might be best if you google it, as I've just looked and there are pages of suppliers in the UK and a few of them are requesting 'submit for quotes' type thing.
Mark.
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cheers Mark.......will have a look.
I think I'll look into that for my own boats for the future, but for a kit I feel that the bearings would have to be kept as per kit, the simplest of manufacturing methods. And as the prop shafts are farmed out to an engineering company, for the cheepest way of production they would have to be kept as brass bearings.
neil.
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After the propellor shafts and A frames have been dry fitted the next process is to make the rudders for both types of boats.
Although the rudder for the Mary Stanford is a simpler rudder to make in that it is made from just one piece of 4mm birch faced ply wood cut to shape as per plan, it has a complicated fixing set as it hinges onto the stern post and is steered by a slide mechanism from a pivot on a hidden servo, and so will attempt that one after the holiday period when the kids have gone back to school and I can spend a couple of hours on it.
However the rudders for the two Watsons are of a normel type with top and bottom rods fixed into the rudder blade and pivotted through both the boat's hull and the rudder skeg.
To make the rudder, I do as I always do,with any boat, make it in three layers of material, in this case a core of 3mm birch faced ply, and an outer skin both sides of 1.8 mm birchfaced ply.
I bend an arm for the steering rod at right angles so that it can't twist inside the rudder, and cut a corresponding slot into the inner centre core to accomodate the rod. A straight cut is made in the bottom of the core piece to take the bottom pivot....and then the three layers are glued together using 2 part epoxy with the two rods sat firmly inside, niether of which will move.
The rudder skegs for the two watsons, although different shapes will also be built in the same way, with either brass or plastic tubing sunk into the bottom of the skeg for the rudder pivot bar to sit into eventually.
see the photos below.
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Today was spent constructing the two different rudder skegs for the Watson lifeboats.
They were both made from a core of 6mm birch faced ply sandwiched between two layers of 1.8mm birch faced ply, and glued together with a waterproof glue. they are also seen with the rudders in place which also were made in the same way of sandwiched timber.
The skegs were drilled with a 4.5mm drill bit to take a sheath of plastic tube which will be the housing in the skeg for the lower rudder rod, and also which will be set into a block of timber inside the boat to support another length of plastic tubing for the upper rudder rod.
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Is there any particular reason why the hull keel was not "extended" to eliminate the "wood" block at the end of the rudder skeg as per the other example.
Was pondering these pieces and how they fitted, which is now clearer, and no, I know absolutely nothing about lifeboats, except they are a very popular modelling subject.
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arhhh, now you 've got me there, RaaArty.........Because I'm using the same hull for the two different boats, ( and the two boats were designed on the same hull so no problems there) I have had to extend the grp Keel for the second boat that has the Block of wood as the wooden Keel in order to get the rudder in the correct possition.
Originally I was going to build two boats (they all use the same Watson hull) one with the keel that doesn't have the lump of wood on it, and on the second boat that area that has been cut out was going to have a piece of ply reset into it to re instate the keel all the way back to the stern post, and an external traditional rudder was going to be set onto a rudder bar which hangs onto the end of the stern post (as in the picture of a barnett I built in part a while ago).
However when I saw the pictures of the second boat I am now building I decided to build that one instead.
This boat, though has an extended keel/rudder skeg that protrudes further out from the stern post for design purposes to protect her when launching down a slip, and because the skeg is set further back, so is the rudder, and this left a gap between the moulded GRP keel and the measurements for the placement of the rudder, and so this has had to be filled with ply.
Once it has been set. it will be faired into the keel with polyester car body filler, and match up to the particular plans of that boat.
so basically just utilising one mould and set of mouldings to make two different arrangements of keels.
hope this explains the discrepancies in the wooden keel skegs.
the pics below are what the second watson was going to be like, rudder arrangement wise, before I changed it for the one you talk about, and as such the keel would have needed extending all the way with timber. As it is, just a little extra is now needed on the rudder keel skeg.
neil.
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Of course all these pieces of timber are now drawn around and put on their relative sheets for future screen printing ( or even possible laser cutting) for the kit.
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Ahh, the fun of modelling 1930's - 1950's lifeboats....
The RNLI basically asked each station what they wanted on there boats, and so, especially on the Watsons, every damn one was different! Some had internal rudders, some had external rudders. At least two had internal rudders but no deadwood protection around them (like Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts above, but with nothing surrounding the rudder), and then some were built with internal rudders but later converted to external rudders, leaving a large hole in the deadwood (apparently this was because the boats steered somewhat better with external rudders. All the later 46'9" Watsons, the later 52' Barnetts and all the 47' Watsons have external rudders.
One of the documents we've got at Chatham is the parts lists (with diagrams - most useful!) for the steering gear for a lot of the 40's & 50's boats. For those with external rudders it's interesting to note that rudder posts (the square shaft that the rudder slides up and down on) are almost always unique lengths for every single boat - even within the same class! 1/2" shorter here, 3/4" longer there, an each boat was basically hand built. It must have been a nightmare for the RNLI stores to keep track of everything.
Lance
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That's interesting Lance...something that I didn't know..........but when you think about it, with so many yards building the same class of boat, from natural naterials it is only to be expected really........the total accuracy of one set of builders in one yard would not be the same as in another, and even between boats........so presumably they were all fitted as per what was needed when repaired or built.
It is modellers licence then, that one boat need not be the same as another.....lol............makes the whole job a lot easier to argue your corner against rivet counters, lol
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Neil,
Thanks for that, gathered as much, but not knowing about lifeboats, walked where angels feared to tread, but hey us Aussies can handle it.
Thanks again.
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no probs......mind you, with your rescue service taking quite a few of our ex lifeboats, there's no excuse for you not to build a model of one now......
so come on, get to that bench and lets see a nice Waveney in Nedd Lloyd colours emerging next spring, lol..........you know you want to, O0 O0 O0
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The skegs have been dry fitted now, the plastic inserts put into the skegs and blocks to take the rudder tubes have been drilled, inserts placed in and rudder bars cut to length ready for tomorrow when I'll pin them from both inside and outside with 2mm brass pins to both locate and keep them straight and true whilst gluing with 2 part liquid epoxy.
The Hulls have also been sanded to get rid of all moulding lines and levelled the bulwark tops off.
The support block for the rudder tube is made from obeche and a piece of the same , size included, along with a length of plastic tubing has also been set aside ready to go into a parts bag for each boat, for later collation when putting the part for the kits together.
the obeche block will be set onto the hull of the boat using polyester body filler to give a firm watertight grip between block and hull.
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Some say that scratch building hones the little grey cells to think laterally, others say it's the mother of all inventions.
Even more so when you are also trying to make it an easy build for others to copy.
Well, I hit a problem.......or perhaps a quandry this afternoon when trying to fit the skegs, with all locating pins in position and the rudder in possition as well................it just wouldn't fit.
But the pins are needed to hold firm and make sure that if the skeg gets knocked when sailing, it wouldn't part company with the grp hull.
So I thought a while and then decided that the two pins that were causing the problem and not allowing the skeg to "drop" into possition were the two horrizontal pins on each boat that fit into the vertical face of the end of the grp keel. If I could overcome this problem but keep those pins, all would be fine.
A bit more thinking and looking at the holes already drilled and I thought that if these drill holes became a slot in the end of the keel for the pins to fall into, the problem would be solved, as the slot could then, on glueing the skeg in place, be filled with 2 part epoxy whilst gluing the rest of each skeg in possition.
So, having already drilled the holes, I re inserted the drill bit into the top hole, and then keeping the drill spinning turned the drill bit upwards to ream out the hole into a slot.Likewise I did the same with the bottom hole and joined that up with the top hole which has already become the slot.
Now, with one downward motion, the skeg, and rudder can be pushed into possition and glued up, and held in place with tape and clamps until set.
However the wooden parts are now off to the "paint bay" to be given several coats of sanding sealer and rubbed down with wire wool ready for when the boat is sprayed up later.
The photos show firstly the marking up and then the pins set into the skeg, plus the slot.
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Neil,
A thought, what would be the result, if the two pins in the "slot", were replaced by a flat material such as Brass.
The flat material would reinforce the joint between skeg and keel.
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You'd still need a slot for one of the axes though, as the reinforcing bits (whether they be pins or bar) are at 90 degrees to each other.
Holes for pins are easier to drill in the wood as well.
Lance
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Neil,
A thought, what would be the result, if the two pins in the "slot", were replaced by a flat material such as Brass.
The flat material would reinforce the joint between skeg and keel.
I understand what you are saying, raaArty, and if I were doing this for myself I would probably go down that road.......BUT, it is going to be a kit at the end of the day, and when cottage industry manufacturers get into the realms of having to produce small squares of brass in the pakage for the kit, it then starts to ( even with such small items) complicate the production run of them. It is far easier to put a length of 2.4mm brazing rod into the package than have to stop, and cut some plates of brass.
However I appreciate the idea, and will have a look at the idea , but the brass would have to be of similar thickness to 2.4 to have any strength............but I do see your point, cheers..thinking cap on now.
And a good point there too Lance..don't know whether it would weaken the ply ( doubt it) but to get a slot in grp is easier than in ply.
neil.
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Neil,
Some after thoughts, understand KISS and not over complicate materials etc.
As the problem is that the fixing holes/dowels are at right angles to each other two alternatives spring to mind.
1. Use flat plate material instead of round material. Slots are more forgiving than drilling a series of holes on a centre line. Maybe thinner ply would suffice for the flat material.
2. Use round dowels such as brass for the dowels but have the dowels in the same plane, that is parallel to each other, do this by drilling the holes at say 45 degrees to the surface, that way they are parallel to each other and slot into their holes.
A lot harder than the flat plate slot option.
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using ply would work, as there will be an ample supply of scrap 1.8 or even 3mm ply in the kit, and I'll make mention of that as an alternative in the instructions to the 2.4mm rod pins.
fair comment, and hadn't thought of ply or that method.
However, the drilling of all holes at 45 degrees wouldn't work because you still have the lower rod of the rudder to slip into a hole which is at right angles to the skeg and it is this location that hinders the locating of the other pinsall at the same time.
I had thought originally of putting the pins into the skeg from the inside of the boat, where it fits the flat area of the hull aft of the tunnels, but you still have the rudder bar at the bottom, and you can't get this in unless the slot is fitted to the aft end of the keel...............sort of 3 different pinning processes in one, and that was the initial problem.
neil.
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the rudder skegs have now all been located, and glued in place.
Even though the rudder bar is running in plastic tubing to aid smooth movement, I have still injected into the plastic guide tubes a mixture of vaseline/carbon powder to aid lubrication and barrier against water ingress.
The skegs were all glued with 2 part epoxy. I have also written into the instructions the alternative method of fixing the lower leading edge of the wooden skegs on H F Bailey and Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts with a biscuit of 1.8 mm ply as suggested by our ozzie friend RaaArtygunner..........Pondered it last night for some time and on how to cut the slot rather than drilling out and agreed that it was a good idea.
The method of cutting I thought of instead of drilling out would be to use a saw and cut in to the wooden skeg and the keel leaving a triangular section in each, into which a right angled triangular piece of ply could be glued and fitted. Thanks for the idea, RR
The only reason I didn't use it on these two models is that I'd already stuck the pins into the wooden skeg with epoxy before the suggestion and didn't want to damage the skeg by trying to remove them in favour of a sawn slot, which will accomodate a triangular biscuit.
As I said earlier, certain fittings can be used on similar boats, and the white metal skeg used on the earlier designed Anne Letitia Russell, can be used on the Mary Stanford, as I have done. However it is a little thinner than the M.S.'s keel and so sandwiches of 1.8 mm ply on both sides of the white metal rudder skeg have been cut, drawn onto the screen prints and then glued into place using 2 part epoxy and clamped.
The pictures below show, mary Stanford, field Marshall and Mrs Smuts and H F Bailey, respectively.
I shall now wait for it all to set, and then clean of exess epoxy, and fill all parts with filler....reminds me, I've run out......off to the car factors for some more..better a big tin this time.lol
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The final part of the Mary Stanford Rudder skeg arrangement has been fitted..........the false stern post that the rudder up/downhall brackets will be attached too, but these, being vulnerable to knocks and brakage if fitted at this point will be fitted later in the build. The stern post was made from 3mm ply and glued and pinned with 2.4mm brazing rod before being filled and later sanded smooth with polyester filler.
Next will be fitting the prop shafts and "A" frames on all three boats.
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This was the part I was dreading most, as getting these things lined up in the tunnels is probably one of the most important processes of making a classic lifeboat, and has to be close on perfect to get the maximum out of the propellers, which are limited in size anyway to the inner dimensions of the tunnel. the sizes are laid down anyway by the class of lifeboat anyway, and the prop shafts have to run true down the tunnels.
To start with, I assembled the prop tube/shaft with the "a" bracket and the end locking nut for the propeller. I had already glued the bearing into the "A" bracket ready and made sure that the shaft rotated in the bearing with ease.
I have also found that these assemblies have a tendency to slide around all over the place and never stay in one possition.ie, the tube will creep up the shaft and then the whole thing is out of position when glued, so I have in the past, and here, locked the prop tube onto the shaft at the desired position with masking tape.......easily removeable once the job is finished and glued up.
Starting with a pilot hole in the centre of a raised piece on the moulding and enlarging to an oval allows the prop tube to sit in neatly.
As the tube is locked in position to the shaft, the only thing now that is moveable on the shaft is the "A" bracket, which is put into place at the tail of the shaft, and close to the raised markings on the tunnel that correspond with the approximate position of the bracket. The bracket is rotated untill the shaft is centred in the tunnel, and the centre of the shaft is at the correct hieght above the top of the tunnel wall ( as depicted on the plans) and then the possition of where the legs meet with the tunnel wall is marked in pencil. The whole assembly is then removed and the markings of contect between legs and tunnel are covered with masking tape.
Onto the legs are placed the "feet"....white metal brackets that make gluing contact with the tunnel, and also house the legs in a slot. Two part epoxy is then applied to the ends of the legs and the whole assembly is put back into position, making sure that the feet to the legs glue and set whilst touching the tunnel.....they will then be left to set for an hour, whilst working on the next boat in exactly the same way, but with different brackets and shaft lengths for the two watsons in comparrison with the Barnett........Mary Stanford.
Once set, the feet are drawn around with pencil to reviele when the assembly is removed again, a square.
The square marks the gluing area, and I now, using a 1.5mm drill bit drill multiple holes on the inside of this square to give a "keying area" got the adhesive to cling into. I also drill some holes into the feet and the ends of the legs of the "A" bracket for the same "key". Remove the masking tape
Mixing some polyester filler I put some into the leading and trailing edge of the oval which takes the prop tube into the hull at the forward end of the tunnel and also a liberal amount ( it can always be taken off when set) onto the bottom of the feet which make contact with the tunnel wall.
The assembly is put into the hull at the correct possition and the feet make upto the tunnel wall in ( by now ) the exact pre determined position. it is held in this position with masking tape until the filler sets and cures.another hour, whilst I can turn my attention to the next boat.
Finally turning each boat upside down I can now fill around the entry holes where the tubes come into the hull with polyester filler. Whilst doing this, you'll see the area where the filler has squeezed through from the base of the feet......this area can be reinforced with some more filler to bond all that has been used to glue the "A" bracket into the hull. set aside to cure before taking the prop shafts out to clean up around the base of the feet with abrasive paper.
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Finally all three boats together showing the different rudder arrangements.
That process only took 4.5 hours from start to finish, and although they say the camera never lies....the shots show the skegs all over the place and the prop tubes totally uneven..........was mortified when I saw the shots.....can assure you, they are all set even, straght and level..............think I'll buy a new camera, lol
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A couple of tips (hope I'm not teaching people to suck eggs here ok2 )
If dealing with separate shafts as you've got above, I cut a couple of scraps of ply as spacers and drill a couple of holes in each the correct distance apart for the shafts with a diameter as the prop shafts. I then bolt the shafts to these spacers with the nuts that come with the shafts, so they're held together as a rigid pair. Of course, the ply spacer on the outside has to be a bit of a funky shape, as it's got to go up and over the keel, which can hold the shafts centrally in the tunnels - the inside one can be a simple strip about half inch wide. All you have to worry about then is the fore and aft adjustment.
What I do if I've got a grp hull and I'm soldering up my own A frames is cheat - and make both A frames as one unit, which is sort of a \o---o/ shape. These are the correct distance apart for both shafts. You can then fix the shafts to the A frame unit, making sure they're parallel. This makes them one rigid unit. I then cut a piece out of the hull in the deadwood from the keel up to where the cross piece of the A frame is, epoxy the shafts & A frame unit in, and then glue the piece cut out of the hull back in again, reinforcing the inside with grp tape and resin so that it's water tight, and filling any view of the cuts on the outside. You can dummy up the feet which normally hold the A frames on with bits of plasticard. This makes the shafts absolutely solid, and I've done this on at least 5 boats with absolute success.
It's easier to do than explain, and I hope that I've got the idea across. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll work with the wooden hull that I'm working with at the moment. {:-{
Lance
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good ideas, lance especially the one regarding the disc for the propeller spacing......and I'll incorporate that into the instructions.
I know what you mean about the frames too, but the frames for the Watsons are already there ( they are the same ones for the Rother...............) the brass pair in the picture were just a couple I knocked up because I only had one set of Rother white metal ones..Having said that, as the kit would be aimed for even the lesser experienced modeller as well as the experienced........I don't think that they would want to start cutting great chunks out of the "deadwood" on a GRP moulding and then start to have to replace it with reinforced grp matting and resins........even some experience modellers shy away from grp work.
neil.
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next job on the hull is to fix the bilge skegs and keels.
They are quite heafty articles on the real boats, to act as protection for the hull and propellers and made of good stout stuff that will take heavy knocks and veen grounding in certain cases especially when such Coxs'ns as Henry Blogg of Cromer was in charge....he had a habit of running his lifeboats onto the decks or into the split hulls of the casualty that he was attempting to rescue.....hence his 3 gold medals and countless others to his credit for bravery and fine sea man ship.
So my normal way of fixing a bilge keel of splitting the hull longitudinally with a jick saw was out the question , not only for the general kit builder, but also because they are made from a representative thickness of 6mm ply, and being four of them in such close proximity I felt that this would deform and weeken the grp hull if 4 splits each of 6mm wide and as long as they are were to be cut into the hull.
I therefore decided to use my second choice of fixing them and that is to pin the skegs with 2.4mm brazing rod and drill through the hull, gluing with epoxy, backing up on the inside with grp matting and resin and filling on the outside with polyester filler, finally sanding and sealing with sanding sealer.
But I get ahead of myself, with this as I have as yet, only curt out the ply keels and transfered them to the draughting paper for screen printing, and drilled for the pins. that process will be done on all three boats tomorrow.
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I also today glued together the inner frames that support the decks for the three boat. I used epoxy to glue them and made sure ( on the first picture) that they were glued up squarely by using the diagonal measurement method......if the two diagonals are equal....the rectangle will be "square" as long as the length between joints on both sides is equal...........a basic law of geometry/ trigonometry, that has come in useful in my teaching of woodwork for many years.
these are now also ready for setting into the hull, using polyester filler to do the job and that might be tomorrow or on tuesday, depending on how long it takes to get the bilge keels fitted and filled.
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Bilge keels have now been pinned, the hull drilled and the starboard side glued using 2 part epoxy.port side just waiting ti be glued, and then all filled with polyester filler and sanding.
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The bilge keels and skegs have now been attached using epoxy adhesive, and the pins have been bonded in on the inside of the hull with two thin layers of polyester resin and glass matting, allowed to cure and then the pins protruding have been ground down smooth.
later I'll fill any irregularities on the outside between hull and skegs with filler.
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Although I haven't yet sanded down the outside parts, and surplus filler from all parts, there is a reason.......I want to get the hulls nice and rigid before attacking them with sander and abrasive papers, and would like something to grip hold of...there's nothing worse than a big wide unwealdy slippery hull to be resting on a bench, on your knee or anywhere else you fancy and not being able to hlod it because there's nothing to get a grip of.......so the next step is to set into the hulls, the ladder frameworks for the deck supports that I glued up earlier.
These are set in place with polyester filler.........
Firstly I set them into the correct position with the frames in exactly the correct pre-marked place so that when the upper works are set onto the deck, they are precisely where they should be.. The hull is taped closed........hulls have a bit of a tendency to move a little, and opver the past 4 - 6 years when these were orriginally moulded, the sides of them have sagged outwards as things have been dumped on top of them in dry storage..........so I have nipped them in to the correct beam using masking tape to get them correctly beamed.
Once this was done, I used filler first to tack the beams into the concave bulge made by the belting on the outside of the hull. Once they have all been tacked in, I filled in that hollowed area again with filler so that once set, I can glue to the inner edges of the bulwarks, some strips of 6 x 6mm sprue as a support for the outer edge of the deck. these will be fitted next, once the support frame has completely set inside the hull.
It might look incredibly messy at the moment, but aall will be fine once sanded down.
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Niel - excuse my butting in here, but this narrative is the most comprehensive build instructions of a kit I have yet seen :-)) :-))
Take off the first parts detailing the make up of the mould and fabrication of the hull from the mould, then you have a perfect instruction book for the kits of these boats - including photographs !!!!
Carl
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Apart from the tense and plurals, and reference to all boats, (which will be singularly geared to each boat in each set of instructions) what I have put here, Carl is almost exactly what goes into my instructions......I feel the need in putting a kit together for the builder to be completely at ease with the build, and if they can read a set that sounds as though it comes from the heart and from someone actually building the model along side them, then they have more confidence.
I started building kits ( not airfix or revelle although I did build them years ago ) of model ships and cut my teath on Graupner and Billing in the 1970's, and didn't want mine to read like those......disassociation is all I could say between kit supplier and builder......and there is nothing worse than all points not being covered and a learner having to guess.
It's not a case of experience in modelling.......but more an understanding of what the customer needs and desires when buying and building a model..and in that way the builder will gain confidence rather than being put off for life.
And the only way I could do that is to write them as I build and in that way I don't miss a thing, lol.
And to be honest Carl.....don't mind you "butting in" at all...that's what I am doing it for, for people to join in with their two penneth worth, and a couple of good points from other members have already made me adjust little parts......which we all learn from...so the more the merrier.
neil.
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this is where your old kerput batteries that you keep hidden away, come in handy...weighing the cross beams down to bulwark level whilst the filler sets to hold the frame in place.....these are the two Watson's fitted with their deck support frames.
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It's not a case of experience in modelling.......but more an understanding of what the customer needs and desires when buying and building a model..and in that way the builder will gain confidence rather than being put off for life.
neil.
Which results in good customer satisfaction :-)) :-)) which is sadly missing from some kit makers today who are solely geared to price and only supply the minmum.
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Thanks for the thumbs up RaaArty.
Please correct me anyone, but not counting the making of moulds and moulding, is there anything so far that the average, or even beginner modeller couldn't do or understand about the processes of what has been done...
Would just like to know, and if glaring, correct..
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Neil,
One thing that could be explained - is how to convert a 'lines plan' into a framework ready for planking :-))
Mark.
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Thanks for the thumbs up RaaArty.
Please correct me anyone, but not counting the making of moulds and moulding, is there anything so far that the average, or even beginner modeller couldn't do or understand about the processes of what has been done...
Would just like to know, and if glaring, correct..
Hi Neil,
I would like to know how to produce a silk screen but I'm not pushing incase its a trade secret... I asked my Mum ( An x Head Teacher ) her methods would be great in a School environment but not neat enough for production. Please don't tell her i said that as the wrath of a Headie i can live without (Headie - Glasgow for Head teacher... amongst other terms non repeatable ...)
Regards,
Kim
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Neil,
One thing that could be explained - is how to convert a 'lines plan' into a framework ready for planking :-))
Mark.
Hi Mark............now that could take an age.......if you pm me with your concerns I can discuss with you via email.............but it would be hard for me to explain on here, a) as it now doesn't concern the build any more, and b) it depends on how you want the lines to work.......in either framing or bread and butter construction templates.....and not every one does it the same way when modelling...my way could be different to anyone else on here.........and discussion that came along would detract from this thread........however if you wwant to start another thread on how to use lines, I'm sure there would be good discussion and plenty of ideas from others on here.
neil.
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Hi Neil,
I would like to know how to produce a silk screen but I'm not pushing incase its a trade secret... I asked my Mum ( An x Head Teacher ) her methods would be great in a School environment but not neat enough for production. Please don't tell her i said that as the wrath of a Headie i can live without (Headie - Glasgow for Head teacher... amongst other terms non repeatable ...)
Regards,
Kim
hi Kim,
It's no trade secret at all, and although I can tell you the technique by which they are made, I don't make them myself, only the method of how they are made.However I will say that when professionally made the silk is so tight on the frame it can almost be used as a drum.
Firstly you draw out on quality draughting paper with a black ink pen, (I used to use Rotring pens and their ink, but not having used them in a very long time, they are now kaput)the inpressions of what you eventually want to produce on timber or plastic. The ink has to be dense black for the same reason that you need it to be for brass etching, as it is basically the same process.
Taking it along to a silk screen producer, they will photograpg the print that you have drawn and by photo transfer will transfer a negative onto your sceen, which will already have been stretched over a frame. This is to ensure that there is no distortion of the print.
The black lines of the print will now be in negative form and will allow ink to be pressed through it, whilst the clear of the paper will have been blacked/blanked off as impregnable.
The screen is then placed over the timber and a small amount of ink is placed at one end of the screen........with a rubber squeegie, the ink is squeezed along the screen with the ink passing through only where the lined of the print once were, thus giving a perfect impression of your drawing onto the timber or plastic.
the ink is usually water soluable and washed off after a number run, so as not to block the holes in the silk screen. I can't remember from memory because the ones I had made for the Anne Letitia Russell were over 17 years ago, but I think they were about 120 denier rating, but I do remember they cost me even then over £250 for the 4 in various sizes that I had made.............but whether the originals have long been scrapped I honestly don't know, but they are, if treated with respect, good hard workers. lol
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Hi Mark............now that could take an age.......if you pm me with your concerns I can discuss with you via email.............but it would be hard for me to explain on here, a) as it now doesn't concern the build any more, and b) it depends on how you want the lines to work.......in either framing or bread and butter construction templates.....and not every one does it the same way when modelling...my way could be different to anyone else on here.........and discussion that came along would detract from this thread........however if you wwant to start another thread on how to use lines, I'm sure there would be good discussion and plenty of ideas from others on here.
neil.
Neil,
I'll have a think about exactly what I need explaining and start a new thread, you are invited to contribute :-))
On the 'silkscreen' subject - do you still have them prepared, I would think it would be more cost effective to convert to CAD for a CNC cutter to cut or engrave the material nowadays {:-{
Mark.
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HI Neil,
Many thanks for that explanation, I did take the info in ... Until you mentioned £250.00 ... Blimey! Coupled with the risk of a bad print & expensive Birch Ply .... Blimey twice!
It really does make you appreciate how much work / expense goes into a production kit! even just in this one element!
Carry on Sir! Your doing a great Job!
Regards,
Kim
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That is absolutely true, Mark......but such a piece of equipement is not only out of my price range by a massive amount, it is also totally out of my realms of understanding on how to use one, even if I had one, lol..........I'll leave that to the "grown ups"of the model manufacturing world.......I'm still living in the vynil record era, sorry to say. And to answer the question....I just prepare the drawings to standard for making into screen prints.....they could just as easily be turned into cad drawings I suppose, but that also would be for the technically minded...........errrr, not me I'm afraid.
I have to say though it would be lovely to be able to give the modeller a mass of pre cut internal deck support beams......save a huge amount of work.......but that would be up to Dave M. O0 O0 O0
and cheers for your encouragement Kim.
perhaps it's a time when model manufacturers could unite, just as farmers do these days, and instead of having valuable equipment lying idle, come to some agreement between one another to interface and help each other out with certain areas of work.........but not up to me to suggest that........ :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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and cheers for your encouragement Kim.
perhaps it's a time when model manufacturers could unite, just as farmers do these days, and instead of having valuable equipment lying idle, come to some agreement between one another to interface and help each other out with certain areas of work.........but not up to me to suggest that........ :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
Neil,
This afternoon while suitably high on the smell of GRP going off i had a very similar thought .... Perhaps a Manufacturers forum. I know that i have used the likes of Mobile marine Model skills as it make sense to outsource internally!
If you or any of the other manufacturesrs would like to chat then I'm all ears!
Sorry for using your post for such an outburst.
Regards,
Kim
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Neil,
This afternoon while suitably high on the smell of GRP going off i had a very similar thought .... Perhaps a Manufacturers forum. I know that i have used the likes of Mobile marine Model skills as it make sense to outsource internally!
If you or any of the other manufacturesrs would like to chat then I'm all ears!
Sorry for using your post for such an outburst.
Regards,
Kim
I know what you mean about grp and the high you get......and at the moment it's legal {-) {-) {-) {-),
but I have to say, I am no longer a manufacturer.......I do this for dave because I enjoy doing it.....keeps the brain active. But I will mention it to him about our thoughts and see what he says. I know he has been thinking of going down the route of cad, laser and cutting and it would be silly for people not to share resources........I've always thought that......but am not in a possition to influence folk.
neil.
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WOW!!!....... that sonic sander I had as a present for christmas ripped through the filler in less time than it would have taken me to count to ten the number of cliche's on a Batman episode, lol ( for those who don't watch it, it's the finest of american cheese that you could ever wish to see, lol.channel 24 daytime)
It would have taken me about an hour and many sanding pads if I'd have used a palm sander, but each boat took around 10 minutes.......
I sanded the filler that had been used to fill the hollow left by the moulding of the protective belting so that I could glue a strip of 6 x 6 mm sprue to the edge of the bulwark, to eventually glue the deck edges to. Using2 part epoxy I glued pieces between the cross beams that had been pre sawn half way through to allow bending the timber to the contour and shape of the bulwarks. I held the strips whilst glueing with spring clamps.
Tomorrow after coming back from watching War Horse with the kids and having a nice juicy ice cream, I'll feel more inclined to putting a fillet of filler underthe lower edge of the beading around the bulwark to both hold the beading in place and also to give a totally waterproof bond to the decks once glued to that beeding and framework..
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Neil,
This afternoon while suitably high on the smell of GRP going off i had a very similar thought .... Perhaps a Manufacturers forum. I know that i have used the likes of Mobile marine Model skills as it make sense to outsource internally!
If you or any of the other manufacturesrs would like to chat then I'm all ears!
Sorry for using your post for such an outburst.
Regards,
Kim
Sorry Neil, not hi-jacking your topic honestly, but I couldnt let this comment pass without a response from me...........in the positive :-))
Will start a new topic........
Carl
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no probs carl,
There used to be an Assiciation of Model kit manufacturers, I'm sure of, in the 1980'/90's, but I certainly wasn't a member of...they'd probably have kicked me off, lol...but just wonder if Colin Bishop knows or remembers what happened to it and the members.
neil.
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The deck support beading around the bulwarks has now been reinforced underneath with filler, and will now, once the deck and combings for the cabins have been fitted, be totally waterproof.
next to fit are the well decks for the cabins, but I have to make these first..........hopefully tomorrow for at least one of them.
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There is now an amount of work and decision making before the sub deck and then the main decks are put on to the boats.
When I originally designed the Anne Letitia Russell kit 18 years ago I made the well decks under the cabins to be removeable with the cabin tops, for access to the motors, batteries and rc gear. As the model was only 41 inches long space was a little restricted, but with these 3 at 46" and 51" long, space is a little better.It also, in this arrangement gave rise to the fact that in rough weather it would be susceptable to water getting into the hull as there were no combings around the aft end of the cabin. Not ideal but at the time, that was the only solution I could come up with...years and time gained experience now say differently.
As such I decided to make the well decks as a pemanent fixed fitting, but possible with a removable floor to get to anything I needed, and as such measured from the plans the size, shape of the sides and constructed from 3mm ply, including a removable deck of 1.8mm ply backed up to keep the floor straight and flat, with the 3mm piece removed from the centre of the original deck. I also decided to make the back panel of the rear well deck on all 3 models removeable to access the servo and rudder arm for maintainance.
This, once fitted would give access to parts of the hull.
However once fitted in place to see, ( at th4 moment on the Mary Stanford only which is the biggest of the trio ) I begin to wonder whether the access in those positions is really needed and whether I should just stick with fixed decks with no noles in them. It would make the model far more water tight for heavy weather sailing should one want to.
As you can see from the side views of the well decks they are angled to slide into the framework giving the floor the line of the sheer of the boat, particularly at the bow end of the boat.
The frame work in the boat is now set rock solid and as needed, sections of frames have been cut out to facilitate the insertion of the well decks, before the support sub frame is glued in, which in certain places overlaps the well decks.
What do you lot think?
This set of photos shows the process of cutting through the floor of the well deck ( it was an after thought I had once I'd glued the well deck together).
The cut out from the well deck has been mounted onto a false floor of 1.8mm ply.
This picture shows the shape of the forward well deck so that the floor of the deck follows the shear line of the boat.
The following photos show the fore well deck in position and also fitted.note that sections of frame work have been cut out to take the assembly.
All the parts are transfered to draughting paper for screen printing before gluing together.
And the last set of 4 are of the aft well deck.....note the access panel in the rear wall of the well deck for the rudder servo.
Side view of the rear well deck.
And finally an overall view of both well decks fitted. the long section in front of the rear well deck will be also access to the internals as this is covered by the engine casing.
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I wouldn't have thought that you'd need the extra access on the Mary Stanford, Neil, as the main engine cover is so large, unless you needed the access for the rudder servo/linkage - different with the other two however, as the engine covers are somewhat smaller.
One thing to think of, if you do have removable floors, is whether or not there'd be any fittings fixed to the side walls of the cockpits that would get in the way when you try and lift the floors out.
I modified the fore cockpit of the Duke of York to have a removable floor (I glued the base moulding to the hull - grand ideas of the model going down a slipway and things getting a bit soggy up forrard !), and then came up with the problem of what to do with the steps which are normally glued to the walls - I had to arrange it so they were on upstands so they came out when the floor did.
Lance
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that's a good point Lance...at the moment I haven't looked too hard at what is on the side walls, and I haven't got a single picture yet of the inside cockpits of the field Marshal and Mrs Smuts, so don't know.
as you say, the Mary stanford has acres of space without the floors being lifted.. but have been working on the two Watsons today, and have luiterally just come in from the workshop..................will post pics later when I've had a bath.....my brain hurts...........need to go and soak it, lol....be back later.
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I have been working on the two Watson's today.
Both have a different set up and both needed careful planning and thinking about...like a grown up wooden jigsaw in 3D.
The H F Bailey was very similar to that set up of the Mary Stanford and all that was needed was to take measurements of the two diferent cockpit well decks and to make sure that they fit where they should, and with a little trimming and cutting of the frames, they settled in to position neatly, ready for gluing in place shortly.
The process will be written down step by step so that all aspects are covered for the builder, with help of diagrammes and photos.
below is the H F Bailey complete with well decks ( again the floors have been left as removeable at the moment, but this might change once put together with decks fitted.
I need the removeable deck on the rear cockpit on H F Bailey more than any other boat, because of the position of the rudder stock and where the servo will need to go to operate it.
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The well decks on the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts however were a little more tricky and needed a little thought.
As on the H F Bailey, there is a bulkhead that has to fit into the cabin top without gaps, but this time is on the forward cabin, and patterns made of card were cut for it, gently slicing bits off the card to fit in the marked position once the cabin was on the deck......but this has to mate up with the well deck, and this is in a position where no supportive cross beams are available ( unlike the frames of the HF Baley and the Mary Stanford. So new "hangers" for want of a better word had to be devised and cut from 6mm ply, to both support the well deck ( as it isn't wide enough to fix and glue to the longitudinal beams) and were "in limbo" so to speak.
Also the deck cross beam in picture 2 marked "G" had to be removed in the central section to accomodate the well deck.
"Hangers" were measured,drawn and made and finally fixed to the position needed to support the forward well deck so that it's aft wall mated up with the forward bulkhead of the engine casing and the engine control bulkhead is in the correct position for the cabin.
The cabin , as near as lines will show is almost the same as the aft cabin of the Ann Letitia Russell moulding and so this, in a chopped down form at the aft end of the cabin is to be used and mated up with the aft cabin. However both will be removeable seperately, giving reasonably good access into the hull.
The pictures show a representative of the pieces cut ready to glue together to make one of the well decks on the F.M and Mrs S, and also show the aft well deck which is a similar build to any of the other cockpits that I have made for the other two boats.
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I have found since fitting the servos on to the two Watson class boats that removeable floors in the rear well decks will be needed, but might have to be re designed before the drawings go off for printing, because of fittings both on the side walls of the cockpits and/or on the decks themselves, but this can be reworked once the well decks have been fitted.
However, the access to the servos is reasonable, and as servos are pretty reliable, it is envisaged that access won't be needed too often.
However the servo on the Barnett clas boat is well tucked away under a deck and as such a holder for the servo that is removeable is needed, and so, after trial and error and redesign a couple of times, I came up with a little holder that can be removed from the rear under deck space of the boat if need be.
first few photos show the positioning of the Watson servos and the last few show the servo and holder for the Barnett, which will be covered all but for the working head by decks.
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the well deck/cockpit surrounds have now been fixed permanently ready for the sub decks to be glued on.....hopefully tomorrow.
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You can never have enough clamps... O0
Lance
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I must lead a sad life, Lance........I collect them, lol........
could do with some nice 6' sash cramps...but they go for a fortune, even on car boot sales
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So, in those couple of instances where G cramps are shown, it is only because they were at hand and not for any specific purpose.
In OZ, there is a poor mans sash cramp, which consists of a couple of fitting that screw onto threaded galvanised water pipe.
A "sash cramp of any length can be "assembled" in this way.
They are not a robust as the genuine article, but for some applications are quite adequate
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they were there for just that little bit extra grunt........the springs on the clamps are getting a little weak in old age and I wanted to hold them down firmly..
can you show me a picture of what you mean with scaffolding pipe....sounds interesting...just can't get my head around it though.
neil.
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Neil,
Some photos more on google, images "pipe clamps for woodworking"
Basically you can transfer the components to whatever piping for the application at hand.
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they are amazing matey....I have NEVER seen those anywhere over here at all.........but will certainly be looking from now on.
cheers,
neil.
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just googled them and even some on amazon.but they all quote 3/4" pipe clamp....what does that refer to..the diameter of the pipe they slot over???..........
I suppose they would work on 19mm copper pipe with enough lateral strength to clamp tight ???
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Copper is quite soft and malleable so as lengths increase won't it deform?
Can you not get steel or galvanised at 3/4"?
Dave
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don't know dave..................s'pose I could have a look down the scrap yards...will have a look before I buy some clamps.
neil.
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I'm pretty sure the steel pipe they run round garage workshops and the like, used as the "compressed air line" is 3/4 galvanised steel pipe. I dare say if you are freindly with your local garage, they might have an odd length of the stuff knocking about under a workshop bench thats just gathering dust.
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That is absolutely true, Mark...........they could just as easily be turned into cad drawings I suppose, but that also would be for the technically minded...........
I have to say though it would be lovely to be able to give the modeller a mass of pre cut internal deck support beams......save a huge amount of work.......
You have Mail...
Regards,
Kim
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try
http://www.axminster.co.uk/pipe-cramps-dept814864_pg1/
Peter
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Loads of clamps here Neil. Some the same as RaaArtyGunner's ones.
http://www.besseytools.co.uk/index.html
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In OZ, galvanised pipe is still used for water reticulation and is readily available.
As mention by others, copper would be too soft, but I suppose any steel pipe would do.
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cheers chaps.........I used to make show cases for my models...helped sell them lol, and borrowed any amount of sash cramps from a mate who owned a pine furniture company, but sadly he went bottoms up a couple of years ago, and the cramps went to the
liquidiser liquidater, (sharks that they are)....so may be able to get back to them
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Had a break over the last few days, as my good lady needed a little TLC....not feeling too good.........some virus or other, but today I was shunted out into the garage by the kids who wanted to do someothing on the pooter.....so set about fitting the sub decks on all three boats.
These sub decks, made from 3mm ply give a substantial fixing for the printed overlay deck and also once certain beams have been cut out, the deck gives a very rigid support for the deck and any combing that needs to be fitted for the cabins to locate over.
I have thought of other ways in the past, but it worked well on the ALR and so thing why try mending something that ain't bust.
note how the sub deck cleanly takes the curve of the sheer of the boat, making it easy to trim the cabins to fit.
the boats shown in order are Mary Stanford, H F Bailey and Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts.
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Hi Neil you have really done a lot since I went on holiday.I have now caught up with your build & I must say it is quite a brilliant series. You have convinced me to build a lifeboat, it is just now finding the cash for the Speedline Tamar which is what appeals to me, there is always bank robbery I suppose, LOL, holidays are great but cost an arm & a leg. I got hold of Adrian & he was ever so nice & helpful too, so I must take back the negative remark I made a few weeks ago on another thread. He tells me he is finding it hard to keep up, what with a regular job & sales exceeding all expectations & I gather he is a one man show. Keep up the good work & I will be watching every day, thanks again , Mick B.
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no probs, Mick....and if you still need me to have a chat, again no probs.
nice to talk to you on the phone too.
take care,
I'm off now to try to fit the decks for them all..........as Cpt Oates said some 100 years ago...."I might be gone some time"
%% %% %% %% %%
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Neil, will you motorize & control these boats or are they literally just development mules to get the kit bits together (presuming of course that the kit won't ultimately contain motors, mounts and the like)?
Cheers
Lance
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Hi Lance.....
Oh yes, these will be MY toys once I've finished them, and will all be motorised.that's as far as it goes though.
sadly where I sail at Fleetwood it's pointless putting in any other electronics such as lights, sound etc( although I've never put sound units in) because of the salt air and water.it very quickly corodes wiring to lights etc, and I put it in two models back in the 80's and they were none functional within a season....but yes definately motorised........
I would hope to have them ready for the Leicestershire bash on June 3rd, my birthday and Etherow later that month......I'll keep bashing on.
neil.
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hi neil , why not try the route we do with the full sized boats and used tinned wire for all of the circuits ? jon
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hi Jon......not technical enough for all that....will leave it to those who feel the desire to do that sort of thing..........it's taken me years to actually put crew on my models.....one step at a time, lol %% %%
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Today was spent firstly sanding down the tops of the framework, sub decks and the bulwark edges and support beading all level with the subdecks and once that laborious job was made easy with my new toy, my sonic sander ( just unbelievable bit of kit) and then I set out making and cutting out card templates for the main decks of all three lifeboats, and then transfering those to 1.8mm birch faced ply, and cutting out.
these templates take into account the access to the well decks, and when finally glued onto the sub deck and the beading around the edge of the hull will make a totally waterproof and very strong structure for the printed planked overlays to be added to give the boats that planked deck effect.
before gluing the decks onto the boat they will be used to trace around for the screen prints and also for the shapes for the printed planked decks.a job for another day.
the photos show in order, the marking out of the bow, and then stern patterns of the Mary Stanford, the patterns cut and waiting, the ply decks that have been cut from the card patterns ( H F Bailey) and the ply deck pieces in place and ready for gluing to the sub deck of the Mary Stanford.
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Ohhh, for the power of batteries.....even dud ones.
the main deck on the Mary Stanford was glued to the sub deck and bulwarks today using Gorilla glue......not only will it stick like the preverbial, but as it foams up it will adhere to any uneven surface underneath the main deck....kill two birds with one stone,so to speak
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My sort of engineering. Well done.
Can you tell me the working time with your Gorilla glue please as I've never used it and it looks just the stuff for me
Ken
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Ken I have used it YES it is GOOD stuff but lord help you if it gets on your hands YUCK I personally think that the new Gel glue Steve model boat bits is better and works a lot quicker and is defo cleaner to use
Dave
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I was wondering about the thickness. Whether it was a major factor in any calculations, along with a 'slide' factor and working time ??
ken
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Slide factor NO problem working time NO probs either
Dave
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You've put my mind at rest. I'll get some and try it.
Cheers
ken
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Ken I have used it YES it is GOOD stuff but lord help you if it gets on your hands YUCK I personally think that the new Gel glue Steve model boat bits is better and works a lot quicker and is defo cleaner to use
Dave
actually dave..............it is Steve's that I am using, and as you say.......messy stuff.......I use silicon gloves when I'm using it........it's almost identical to Gorilla glue.............same colour same fizzy properties and according to the bottles same time to cure .....24 hours, but it goes off a lot quicker than Gorilla glue does, and as such you don't have the same working time to get everything clamped down.....but my god it sticks like wotsit to the blanket.
Also it's a lot cheaper and just as good as Gorilla glue and I would recommend a bottle in anyone's worksghop for those powerful jobs needed.
by fizzy, Kenny, I mean you put the glue onto one surface and onto the other surface to be joined, you lightly dampen the area with water and then clamp the two together....it all then reacts and foams up and expands, and if the two surfaces aren't clamped securely together the glue expands the joint instead of around it and they are forced apart.......so beware.....good clamps or cramps are needed. It is however a good filler of bigger gluing gaps, lol, and boy oh boy, sometimes I need that.
neil.
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Cheers Neil. I'll give it a try. Bit worrying about the gloves. I have a pack of plastic ones for Ladies to dye their hair with. Any good ?
Ken
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yeh, any will do kenny, even pink marigolds......it's just to stop the stickyness of the glue....... and leaving black stains on your fingers.........it's worse than superglue for getting everywhere......it's a bit like the filler foam that plumbers use, and just as sticky, lol
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and I think you can see the glue foaming out on these two shots of the second boat I glued up this afternoon...I sort of ran out o' batteries half way through and had to use more tape and 13mm picture frame pins to glue the rest of the deck down......hopefully by tomorrow afternoon will be able to start cleaning it all up, including the skegss and bilge keels etc.
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just for YOU Ken......http://www.gorillaglue.com/LinkClick.aspx?link=pdfs%2FGGSpecifications07.pdf&tabid=74&mid=443
Dave
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Great info Dave. :-))
We'd better leave Neil to his Blog. %) Hopefully we shall see pictures of the result.
:-)) :-))
Ken
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no, you go ahead kenny.....all this sort of info is relevent and I'm quite happy for it to be discussed on this thread.any knowledge is helpful to all readers and I have no problems with that.
neil.
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What a nice man .................
My problem was in joining two sheets of plasicard. ie; Connecting a largish box to the deck.
I washed both surfaces with a brushed on liquid 'Plastiweld' and slammed the two together quickly (high evaporation time) and the joint was instantaneous. The result was rather good but as I couldn't move them, it was just luck they were in the correct position. I would have liked a longer setting time, enough to swivel if needed to line up.
Maybe your Gorilla (or substitute) glue might be a better solution. I just wondered if it's thickness would be a problem ?
Ken
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I've never tried it with plastics but it does say on the bottle that it will glue plastics together, so no harm in trying......anyone else used it on plastics????
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I Have and Guess what ...............it is Dammed good,glued a bait boat which was a plastic abs and there is NO way you can separate the 2 halves.
Now don't laugh I have used it also on plastic bumpers in work and it does what a lot of other glues have Failed
Dave
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I have been reading this thread with interest can you tell me though
What is a "sonic sander" and give more information please %)
thanks
Colin
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What a nice man .................
My problem was in joining two sheets of plasicard. ie; Connecting a largish box to the deck.
I washed both surfaces with a brushed on liquid 'Plastiweld' and slammed the two together quickly (high evaporation time) and the joint was instantaneous. The result was rather good but as I couldn't move them, it was just luck they were in the correct position. I would have liked a longer setting time, enough to swivel if needed to line up.
Maybe your Gorilla (or substitute) glue might be a better solution. I just wondered if it's thickness would be a problem ?
Ken
Hi Ken, ideally you want the two parts to be together then bleed the glue in .. capilialry reaction ... brings back school day nightmares ...
An easier glue if you want to reposition / slide plasticard (HIPS STYRENE) would be deluxe matelials Canopy glue or their craft glue / rc modelers glue.
An advantage of these is that the remain ever so slightly elastic after curing.
I have Boats 15 years plus old that show no signs of fatigue using these glues where uhu has long since failed.
I can't comment on Gorilla glue i have no experience.
Regards
Kim
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An interesting link -
http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/pages/boathelp.htm
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I have been reading this thread with interest can you tell me though
What is a "sonic sander" and give more information please %)
thanks
Colin
Hi Colin.....this is the beasty.......comes with a wodge of tungsten and diamond tipped blades as well as scrapers, saw blades and has a multiple of uses......but my god, it rips through grp like butter......I am very impressed with it.....best thing I've bought in yonks.
neil.
http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/power-tools/sawing/multi-purpose-saws/multi_purpose_saws/Worx-SoniCrafter-250W-Oscillating-Tool-11097504?ecamp=cse_go&tmcampid=4&tmad=c&CAWELAID=656841553
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Thanks Neil
Will be looking to get one of those :-))
Colin
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they are a nice bit o' kit, colin :-)) :-))
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Hi Colin.....this is the beasty.......comes with a wodge of tungsten and diamond tipped blades as well as scrapers, saw blades and has a multiple of uses......but my god, it rips through grp like butter......I am very impressed with it.....best thing I've bought in yonks.
neil.
http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/power-tools/sawing/multi-purpose-saws/multi_purpose_saws/Worx-SoniCrafter-250W-Oscillating-Tool-11097504?ecamp=cse_go&tmcampid=4&tmad=c&CAWELAID=656841553
Neil,
Good video.
Impressive tool, no doubt something similar is available in OZ if not get from UK
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Aldi and Lidl have there own versions from time to time at about £40 if memory serves me right
Ned
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they do ned, but lightweight stuff......I tend to buy as good as I can afford.
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the decks have now all been fitted, and I'm just waiting for the deck on the HF Bailey to cure before taking the tapes and weights off before trimming up.
the edges of the deck to bulwarks have been trimmed with a nice sharp bevelled edge chisel and then filled with polyester filler. the start has been made to trim around the cockpit accesses and one one of the shots can be seen a scrap piece of 1.8mm ply that acts as a support for the two pieces of the deck ( port and starboard pieces) to mate up to each other without any sagging of either side.
But the thing that always every time gets to me about a classic lifeboat is the beautiful sheerline of the bulwarks top from bow to stern.....such a gracefull and yet business like and powerfull shape to them..and these three are no exception.
To me they are far more graceful than the modern fast afloat boats, and although not as powerful, fast or safe to be in..they still went out in the same dreadfully awful and pitiless seas that the modern boats with all their protection can muster, to do one thing...and that was to put their own lives on a knife edge to save others.........and it gives me unbelievable pride to be able to re create models of these boats for pleasure.
The whole of each boat will now be sanded and got ready for a few coats of paint.
neil.
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But the thing that always every time gets to me about a classic lifeboat is the beautiful sheerline of the bulwarks top from bow to stern.....such a gracefull and yet business like and powerfull shape to them..and these three are no exception.
My son thought this quote might be appropriate:
'It is a noble service which a life boat is intended for, so the design ought to convey a sense of dignity and power, also it should be pleasing to look at, with beauty of proportions and form, and even colour' - J.R. Barnett, 1933
Lance
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I couldn't sum it up half as well, Lance.
neil.
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The whole of each boat will now be sanded and got ready for a few coats of paint.
Hi Neil
You said to pipe up where needed - so very briefly for newbies like me - what is your process pre that first undercoat.
Sorry if it seems obvious to everyone but if I can get it right the first time then I will do so everytime.
Plus I have just removed the old paint from a hull (the undercoat could have protected a space shuttle).
Dave
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Neil,
In the photo with the ply reinforcing the butt joint, would it be any advantage to make the "reinforcing" piece full length and glue it at each end.
It would increase joint strength and stiffness.
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Hi Neil
You said to pipe up where needed - so very briefly for newbies like me - what is your process pre that first undercoat.
Sorry if it seems obvious to everyone but if I can get it right the first time then I will do so everytime.
Plus I have just removed the old paint from a hull (the undercoat could have protected a space shuttle).
Dave
I'll be using 120 grit to get rid of all the filler first, Dave , and then gradually work down with wet and dry through 240, 400 and 800 grade to get the hull smooth..then I'll give it a couple of coats of filler primer ( goes on orange) and rub down again, then onto grey primer which will show up any irregularities and scratches, fill with filler putty, and rub down again, before spraying with Glacier white.....it's a slightly off creamy white that the older boats were painted in, or green anti fouling as per Mary Stanford, and finally the blue....not Ford galaxy blue as in the modern boats, but a lighter blue and just at the mo. I forget the exact colour but have it written down.. the top coats I'll just give coats until I have the deapth of colour I want.
others will have their own way of painting/spraying, and I cannot comment on what others do, but that process is not my favorite, but it has to be done, lol.
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Neil,
In the photo with the ply reinforcing the butt joint, would it be any advantage to make the "reinforcing" piece full length and glue it at each end.
It would increase joint strength and stiffness.
I should have done, and god knows why I didn't. (bit of a brain freeze really at the moment in time), but the only saving grace in this is that when the printed planked deck overlays are glued to the decks there will be a centre "king plank" running down the centre of the boat, about 15 mm wide, which the two sides of the deck will butt up to, and this will glue and hold the two butted joints of the main deck together and lie on top of the joint making it totally watertight. It will also elliviate that problem that someone mentioned a few days ago about how you get a sheet of ply to bend in two different directions at the same time...you don't without difficulty.
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Sorry Neil
I should have stated wood prep - but I see you will use printed planked deck overlays
Dave
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sorry, Dave.....only the outer surface will be prepped.several layers of sanding sealer before the printed deck goes on and then the printed deck will be given a coat of stain to match the colours of the decks that I have from the photos of the actual boats.then will give a couple of coats of clear satin varnish.
neil.
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today, I spent most of the day cleaning up all the decks and sanding them
Then I trimmed the main decks around the cockpits on all three boats as well as making supports to fit under the cockpit main/sub deck assemblies so that I can eventually have some substance thick enough to glue the combings too, to hold the cabins in place.
Each boat different, needed a different solution to the problem...........oh the brain aches this evening. lol.
I also filled any gaps between the tops of the cockpit walls and the underside of the sub decks for a neat finish eventually.
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Now that the combing supports under deck have been fitted, the actual combings for each boat can be cut out and fitted.
These are an integral part of keeping the inside of the boat clear from water, and also for holding the superstructure in place.
Although a little more complicated than most scale craft they are only what anyone would put onto their trawler, cabin cruiser, warship or even a modern lifeboat to keep the superstructure in place and to stop water getting under that superstructure into the electrics, and as such are constructed in sections to fit the aquired boat like any set of combings. this set shown are for the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts which has a combination of two cabins virtually adjoining each other.
They were made from a combination of 6mm ply in two layers for the bow combing and for the mid and rear sections a combination of 1.8mm ply cut with the grain for the straight pieces and across the grain at the stern end of the rear cockpit to facilitate ease of bending around the arched stern piece.
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And here are the two cockpits for the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts, fitting snugly over the combings.....just have to trim them up now to fit the deck nicely.
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the second lifeboat, the H F Bailey was again, not following the rules of fair play.
the aft cockpit behind the engine room bulkhead was reasonably straight forward with just the bending of the ply onto the rear wall, which was again facilitated easily by using a cut of the 1.8mm ply across the grain of the sheet .
However the foreward part of the rear cabin assembly was not as easy.
because of the slope of the forward engine casing sides, verticla combings would not be an option. So I used two lengths of Obeche timber and sloped a section of this timber to the slope of the engine casing side, leaving a flat flange to but upto the side where the combing wuld normally glue to. I then cut and shaped a piece, labelling it and put it in the box of "odd bits" that will be eventually machined as pieces to put in the kit, and therefore as a pattern for the pieces used, can be copied and manufactured, for ease for the builder.
The front face of this combing could then be made as a normal virtical piece from 3mm ply.
Finally the two curved pieces of 1.8mm ply just forward of the engine room bulkhead were, again made from 1.8mm ply and glued and pinned to the wall of the access hole.
Luckuly, the forward cabin on each of the two boats H F Bailey and Mary Stanford are fixed and therefore don't need combings fitted.
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the final set of combings for the Mary Stanford were put together today.
But before these were made, the cabins were made to fit the sheer of the deck so that the height of the combing above deck could be worked out.
I used my trusty pencil guage to do this. Flatten one face of a short piece of pencil so that it slides around the deck without moving. Then put each piece of superstructure onto the deck in place.You will see gaps between the deck and cabin bottom. Slide the pencil around the cabin (at right angles to the cabin at all times) making a mark on the cabin. This line will be parallel to the deck that it has slid along, and you can now file down to that line. You Might need to do it a second time if the undulations in the cabin base are deeper than the height of the pencil tip from the deck. Repeat the process until the base of the cabin fits nicely without gaps onto the deck.
The rear combings were fitted in exactly the same way as par other two boats, using the cross grain of the timber to make it pliable around the curvature of the stern cockpit wall,finishing the sides with ply cut longitudinally with the grain of the ply.
The fore part of the aft cabin, i.e. the engine casing is just a matter of fitting a normal rectangular set of combings to the long and cross beams of the support structure, and then padding out to make the engine casing a tight but easily removable casing.However I had forgotten to put in the rear deck plate from 6mm ply which then gives support to the full length of the engine casing structure. The fore and aft walls of the access hole also need to be given an extra 6mm thickness to give the combing wall some surface area to glue too. Finally short lengths of 6mm square sprue is glued into the inner four corners of the access area to strengthen the bond of the corners between the combing walls.
The aft cockpit and the engine casing will be left as two seperate units.
The fore cockpit will be fixed and as such doesn't need combings fitting.
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The cabins for the two Watsons were also fitted this morning, using the same pencil guage to get the cabin bases fitting exactly to the sheer line of the deck.
The engine casing of the HF Bailey and the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts caused a little problem, as (when I moulded it some years ago, rather heavily I must add) the inside corners of the engine casing were rather "rounded" with a goodly use of resin and mat and so the combings on the deck had to be rounded to accomodate this minor hickup........but hey!?.............that's modelling, and little faults and tribulations with hand made kits will always occur, and certainly doesn't hopefully detract from the overall kit.
Also the engine room bulkhead on both the two watsons had to be sanded down on the top and side edges as the cockpit bases lost a little from the bottom line of grp. This compensated that loss and allowed the cockpit to sit nicely onto the deck.
Perhaps if it does, those modellers should stick to Airfix/Revelle plastic models!
Once fitted it was time to cut out the openings into the cockpits.
To do this, the rims of the cockpit openings were first marked with a pencil line 4mm from the outside edge and then masked off with masking tape to stop the drill bit from straying and sliding across the grp.
The forward cabin of the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts is in fact using (as it is almost exactly the same shape as the rear cockpit on the Anne Letitia Russell......another kit in the range from metcalf Mouldings) a cockpit from the aforementioned kit, but needs to be cut and modified, which was done this morning.
Not one for using a saw on grp, I drilled the perimeter of the opening on the inside of the line, and then using the side of the drill bit............the flukes, I reamed out the waste grp to form the opening.
This then revealed the cockpit edge as a jagged strip, which will be filed to the masked line for a smooth edge.
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And now, just as a little side line, after working on three hulls/cabins altogether, which can get monotonous at times I decided to get on with a little job that I'd been putting off for a while...not because I didn't want to do it......I enjoy laithe work, but just because it was probably the last fitting that I needed to make, one that I had forgotten I needed, and one which needs moulding in rubber ( a sometimes messy job) and then casting in resin.....and this is the bummer...........I've run out of polyurethane resin and would have to order some, forr a little job, knowing that I probably won't need to use it any more than once, and once open it has a lousy shelf life.....oh well...........just bite the bullet and order a teeny amount.
So what is the fitting ...............it's a pillar and base to hold the forward/reverse wheel for the Field marshall and Mrs Smuts....the other two boats, and the Anne Letitia Russel and the liverpool class lifeboat all have them mounted on the engine room bulkhead on a consol....the FM has them on pillars in the open forward cockpit.
The wheel atop the pillar is generic with the other boats, so I just needed to turn the pillar and the collar base from brass on my trusty ML7.
Then I mounted them in plastecine in a lego box and poured the first half the mould with RTV30 rubber.......I'll pour the other half tomorrow.............but get this folks.
When you put the second layer of rubber onto the first, you first normally spray the hardened rubber with a release agent wax...........I ran out a couple of months ago, so rang Tiranti's of Reading where I normally get my supplies of rubber and asked for them to send me a new can of spray release agent................"sorry we can't" said Tiranti's......" because of the new laws on conveying spray cans, we can't send the cans any more".........is this HSE gone mad or what???
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and I have now just removed the plastecine from the mould to reveal the first half of the rubber nicely taken and ready for the second half.........I will use vaseline as a release barrier before pouring the second half of the rubber mould in tomorrow.
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Have you got some sorry of gadget for turning tapers like that Neil, or are you just doing it by eye?
Lance
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Hi Lance......yes, I just set the tool head up to the angle I need, marked on the base of the tool head in degrees and off I go.
you can see the tool head set at an angle in the first shot, but not the markings for the angles of cut.
It's an old machine, but a good solid one, that sadly I don't use to it's full potential.
neil.
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I'll have to see if I can make something up for mine (1920's 3 1/2" Drummond M).
Cheers
Lance
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Hi there is a slide for a drummond on ebay in Laths section that I think has degree makings on it mine has
John
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this is what it Could look like my older one,(can I come and clean yours lathe that is)
good interesting build Neil keep it going , by the way dont you get any days off ?
peter
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don't keep showing me that, Peter.....makes me feel very inadequate {-) {-) {-) :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
you can come and clean my laithe any time,
and thanks for the accolade of the build.coming from you, that means a great deal, especially after seeing your beautiful models.
neil.
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Hey Peter
Have you got a special setting on your new camera?
A Swarf Stealth mode perhaps? O0
Dave
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And here is my assistant, (13 tomorrow and don't we knowt it......she's been counting down for weeks) splitting the two halves of the mould.....the vaseline worked very well as a release agent, I am happy to say, and the two halves came apart easily., and the second shot os the two halves to the mould ready for cutting and channeling to allow the resin to flow.
the final shot is just for vanity..I cleaned the boat up today, sanding down the hull and bilge skegs, and whilst I was waiting for something or other, ( can't remember now what) I put a couple of fittings and the cabins onto the hull........ahhh what inspiration.
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Peter your lathe is disgusting, nothing should be that clean. Neil you are a very talented man, I am enjoying this build & learning a lot too, I just have to come over & visit, so much happens with model boats in U/K. PS - Peter I was just kidding of course, thats how your lathe should look. Neil, now that your daughter is 13 have you bought the shotgun yet ?. Mick B.
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I woudn't be safe with a pop gun, never mind a shotgun {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Nice work, thanks for the link.
learning the whole time, combings sheer lines its all good. I had in my mind that the bow deck would be similar to what you have done, i also plan to go down below if i can and have a miniature engine room. If it wasnt for this fact i would have no issue with combings and opening my scuppers. But you have given me the direction to give it a go, if i cant make it work ill seal them up lol :-))
man that is some lathe aswell...... <:( what i could do with that lol
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where abouts in Ayrshire do you live Chris.............do you ever sail at Largs on the prom.........might see you this summer if you do
by the way that beautiful clean green laithe isn't mine........mine's the cruddy rusty old thing covered in dust.....similar model but it get's used, lol (ooops sorry peter),
neil.
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Hi Neil I thought the word you needed was abused not used LOL, Mick B.
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yeh...yer probably right there Mick.......... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Now that all the cabins fit onto their combings and the decks reasonably well, it's time to fit the "king plank"....the centre plank on the deck running from stern to bow. It is interupted by the cabind but it is a centre point to which the deck planks are laid.
However on these boat models the kit will be supplied with a printed deck overlay and they will but up to that King plank.
This was made from a strip of 1.8mm ply 10mm wide, just wider than the printed ply planks on the overlays, and was glued down with aliphatic resin glue.
As I had made the original main decks from templates that I had drawn and cut from card, I used these again to make the templates for the overlay decks. They had to be marked and cut down as they have a gap around the combings for the cabins to sit between and also a small space between the edge of the bulwarks and the deck, and so all templates had again to be marked , cut to size and then drawn on to 1.8mm ply before the ply was cut out and finally offered up to the boat for final tweaking.
The will then be marked as per plan in pencil, lightly with all planking and hatch markings, before being given two or three coats of cellulose sanding sealer to seal the markings in.
Once rubbed down with wire wool the markings will be drawn over with black draughting pen and ink as would the planks look after being caulked.
Finally each piece will be photocopied at my friendly print shop, and it will be the photocopies of the deck overlays which will be traced onto draughting paper for making the screen prints for the production deck overlays.........a bit of a long drawn out( excuse the pun) process but aty least I'll know that the overlays will fit to the decks the way they should, if the model is built the way it should be.
The photos shown below in order show the king planks being laid where the deck and cabins allow, the templates for the overlays,the overlays on the FM & Mrs S, and then the overlays of Mary Stanford, Field marshall and Mrs Smuts and H F Bailey, in that order.
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today I've been marking out the planking, filler cap holes, deck lights, bollard bases and the access hatches on the deck overlays.
To get the planks marked off in line running the full length of each boat, I marked the measurements for the planks on a scrap piece of ply, and then laid a 600mm steel rule on a building board.
I could then tape down the piece of timber so that the edge making up to the king plank was fitted snugly to the steel rule( which took the place of the King plank.)
then marking off the plans for measurement, all the small areas were first marked on, and finally the planks marked onto both the bow and stern pieces of overlay. Finally I inserted the centre section of each deck side, and ran the plank lines from these two pieces over the centre piece, thus getting the plank lines running through the whole deck in a good straight line.
All 18 pieces of deck will now be taken off to the print shop tomorrow for photocopying, so that I can eventually trace them onto draughtingpaper for making screen prints for the kits.
Quite a monumental task, it is now 23.45......and I started the process at 14.00 hopurs this afternoon, with a break of 30 minuted for my evening meal...................time for bed said Zebedee...boinggggg
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That is sure one big pile of work in one day Neil, I find my best working time is at night late, usually after midnight, sometimes until 3pm. Mick B.
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I slept well last night Mick, knowing that task was out the way, lol O0 O0 O0
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Took the timber overlays to my mate's at the printers this morning.
He photocopied them to A3 size paper, which will now be traced, giving the exact size of deck and planks, etc for screen printing.
The timber overlays can now be glued to the main decks.
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this morning I have been preparing the printed deck overlays for gluing onto the main deck.
This entailed sealing in the printwork of planks etc with cellulose sanding sealer. once dried and rubbed down, I drilled the holed in the due places marked for the petrol filling scuttles and bilge pump outlets which come as white metal fittings.
Drilling undersize with a forstner bit in my pillar drill, ( so as not to chip the edges of the timber ) I then enlarged the holes with 120 grade grit paper, wound into a tube around a piece of dowel rod and sanded the holes to accept the fittings.
Finally I cut the tags for the fittings with a craft knife.
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yesterday was deck fitting...yet again, lol
what would I do without old batteries and parcel tape.
deck overlays have now been glued to the main decks.just allow it to all dry for the next few hours. before removing all the weights.
However, even with the weight I had on the decks, AND the parcel tape that I used to hold the deck edges down, when I pulled them all off this morning...I still had a very small piece of deck on each model that hadn't grabbed down and stuck, so great care has to be taken to hold all down to the main decks.
Also on the bow of the Mary Stanford, there had been a small amount of "slip" on ther port deck sheet, and this left a gap between the deck overlay and the king plank, which had to be filled with a thin slither of 1.8mm ply.
However, hopefully this will all look well once all has been sanded and the coats of varnish have been applied.
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Hi Neil, I am surprised @ the amount of work you get done in one day. The boats are looking great, you really are a master craftsman, & nice guy too.( most times,LOL) Keep up the good work. Mick. PS = You never called me back.//,..//?:"_+-=.
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Hi Mick, thanks for the comments..............you didn't email me with your phone number...........I can't find the email that had it on last time...........send me that and I'll phone you over the weekend...kids start hols tomorrow so will be otherwise engaged tomozz and will be off to bed in about 20 mins...kerknackered..
neil.
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It's amazing how what looks to be a simple job/task takes so much work and so many attempts are thrown away before you get the pieces to fit just as they should.
I thought theat the bow bulwark boards which will eventually incorporate the bow Gobeye and the two Fairleads as shown in the pics.
They have to follow the sheer of the boat, and also the curve of the bulwarks whilst standing virtical to the deck.
Finally got it right at the second attempt and then tried to "dry" bend one of the boards once cut....it didn't go well.....as I had cut accross the grain, leaving a "short" grain to the timber, and it snapped.......so back to the cutting board and yet another was made.
I then decided that it would be easier to pin the boards with 0.5mm brass wire and then glue the piece into the deck with cyano.
the fairleads were also glued into the boards to give them strength.
The white metal fairleads are generic fittings taken from my fittings bin....and those which were used on the Anne Letita Russell. However they have been re cut to the design used on the other two larger Watson boats of the period.
So a shortish job became a longer one than I thought it would.
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Plans can be wrong!!!!
It's always wise when building from scratch to check ALL information before blundering on in your own little world of conceit and self importance.
|I thought that by following the plans for the only one of two of the boats produced that the boat would be built as planned........
I spent time making the bow bulwark boards for the Field marshall and Mrs Smuts yesterday, glued them on and ONLY THEN did I look at the photos that I have of her............only to my annoyance that I had made them far too long, so I then checked the photos of the other Watson H F Bailey, which were the same on plans.....only to find that the photos showed that they too, were wrong..............so this morning, both boats will have the snip......and they should look something like this.
the moral of the story is.........always check all forms of information before going further.
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well, after the cock up last night of the bow bulwark boards, I set too and decided to look at the photos of the models I am building rather than use my imagination...so after much trimming marking and cutting of the pieces of 1.8 ply to conform to the sheer of the boat I was able to cut the six pieces thsat make up the curves of the kick boards lodged between the fairleads down the length of the boat.
the sections for the other two boats will be different and so the whole process will begin again tomorrow.
the kick boards are held in place onto the decks using pins made from 0.5mm brass rod drilled into the kick boards carefully and then will be cyano'd to the decks once other bits have been painted.
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Today was the turn of the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts for the kick boards.
However, unlike the H F Bailey where there are broken runs along the length of the deck with this boat, it is a continuous run virtually from bow to stern.
On the real boats the length would have been sections of plank scarfed together in a longitudinal joint..........but as I am working with 1.8mm ply, I didn't fancy that so one length it is.
It was a little problamatic getting the correct sheer line to the deck cut, but with a little sanding and cutting it was achieved.
On the fm & ms there is a gap at the bow end of the main longitudinal boards, port and sarboard, which on the boat is filled with a short length, recessed and fastened to the inside of the bow bulwark boards and the main kick board. thesae are shown on the first photo.
The planks were then transfered to draughting paper for later screen printing and then pinned in the same manner as the bow bulwark boards..
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Thirty three years ago this morning, at 02.24 hours, the final survivor, the captain of the cargo vessel....."Revi" was grabbed from certain death by the crew of the RNLB City of Bradford 1V, coxs'n'd by Brian Bevan of the Humber lifeboat.
Four minutes later in hurricaine force gales and 40' waves, the "Revi" turned turtle and sank within seconds.
As the captain was ushered to the survivors cabin of the 54' Arun, he said to the crew who had grabbed him from the aft rails just 5 words........which just sum up the bravery of the RNLI crews around the country..
"THANK YOU FOR BEING THERE"
Please support Ryan on his fund raiser for the lads, just as you did for us on the Loch Ness sail last year.
Neil.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=35151.msg353426#new
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And finally I have done the kick boards and breakwater for the Mary Stanford...again different from the other two and using the same techniques to construct the kick boards for the H F Bailey and the Field marshall and Mrs Smuts.
From now on there isn't much construction left....more a case of using the fittings that I have made and cast, plus the generic ones ( some of which I have already used on the kickboards) and fine detailing the boats, so before I get round to that, i'll now have a good clean up of my workshop so that I can lay all fittings out ready for painting and arranging............in the immortal words of Cptn Oates.........I might be gone some time/"
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Someone asked me by pm on another forum exactly how I pinned the 1.8mm ply with a brass pin so thought I'd put it on here for those with a steady hand.
I first used a tool (really it's a bit like the old bradawl for making holes to start a screw off).that I confiscated from a child one day who was throwing it at a bunch of other kids.............lethal thing but it has come in very handy. the steel tip is ground to a point, and I use this on the end grain to make a dimple into the ply.
once the dimple has been made, the very fine 0.5mm drill bit will not slide around on top, and can be drilled into the end grain of the ply to a depth of around 5mm....
make sure that you drill slowly and keep both the timber and the drill bit ( mounted into a dremmell drill) vertically.
finally cut some lengths of 0.5mm brass rod for the pins, put a little cyano onto a block of scrap timber and dab the ends of the pins into the cyano before inserting into the predrilled holes.
finally using a guideline for the centre of the kickboard position, mark off the positions of the pins in the kick boards, 3 at a time from one end, and just set the kickboards into those holes, before proceeding onto the next three hols in turn......a slow but sure process, that needs to have a firm hold for the kick boards, as these boards will, although bracketted with white metal brackets of those fitted to the Anne Letitia Russell, will need to be sturdy as they will also carry the brackets for the white metal stanchions and cleets/anchors etc.
they will eventually be painted and set in position with cyano once the hulls have been painted.
1. The first pic shows the tip of the "bradawl" with the indentation just to the right of the tip
2. Next is the drill bit going into the end grain of the 1.8mm timber....a steady hand needed
3. The pins have been set into the timber
4. The pin positions have been marked on the deck and drilled.
5. The kick boards set into position and the kick board brackets added.
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Hi Neil, you certainly did not have a few beers before drilling those holes, the workmanship is first class & I am watching with very keen interest, thank you for the tread it is brilliant. Mick B.
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thanks Mick...
.I haven't forgotten to ring you.
it's been half term this week and my elder daughter has been out in an evening for a dance show and practices so the time I would have phoned have been taken up....will do so this weekend, matey...have a chat.........sorreeee.
neil.
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Today I did very little except to "cobble " up the surrounds for the bow gobeye fairlead.
It is the fairlead that ropes would be passed through for such practices as veering down on a casualty and as such is quite a heafty fitting made from bronze in real life.....but here it is a generic fitting with the Anne Letitia Russell, however it will have to be modified before it is finally set into place, and also the whole assembly will be filled and faired in to make a smooth entity in it's own right before passing "muster"
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gateway 504, Dicky................and there'sanother copy on the way.....
please Mods delete the two extra posts...thanks.
neil.
Glad its not just me, I was getting a 504 complex Neil.(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/breakpc1.gif)
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I get it every time i try to post Dicky.....normally I just back click, and then press refresh and it clears and posts my stuff......but not today..for some reason it posted multiples again.
ceste la vie.
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I have cleared them for you.
If it happens again then go to 'Modify' on the unwanted post and delete the words and pictures and, as you have to have something posted, just put up a smily.
I clear duplicate postings as a way of life nowadays. %)
ken
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cheers Ken... I'd ( in my simple self mind).........not thought of doing that................. derrrhhhhh %% %% %% :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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Once I have faired in the gobeye fairlead, I will need to paint the thing, and any of the other fairleads with a bronze colouring.
Some years ago, Humbrol did some "authentic" metal colours including "polished Steel", bronze and polished alluminium to name a few, where you painted them on and then scuffed them over with a stiffer brush such as a tooth brush.....does anyone know where I can still buy the bronze paint...or a similar substitute..as I need to achieve the colour as shown in the next few shots.
Thanks in advance.
neil.
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http://www.humbrol.com/paints/all-paints/aq0171-171-antique-bronze-50ml-metallic-enamel-tinlet-aq0171/
Hi Neil - very hard to match colours on a monitor but that above is a Humbrol antique metallic bronze.
Dave
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cheers Dave..that's exactly the stuff I want.........a tin is on it's way.
thanks again.
neil.
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yesterday, spent cleaning up the edges of the printed decks to the kick boards and readying them for the kickboard brackets..........also making up the bow fairlead for the Mary Stanford.
Unlike the two Watsons which have a white metal fitting, the M.S. is just made up from two printed pieces of 1.8mm ply with a final addition of a bow roller ( not yet fitted) inbetween the two upright flanges of the fairlead.
Also Ispent time filling the small gaps between the edges of the deck overlays ready for spraying the areas of none slip grey onto the decks and gunwales before also painting the kick boards and finally the decks.
For filling these small gaps I used knifing putty from any car accessory shop, which is cellulose based and covers light scratches and gaps well.
Today's job will be to sand down and fair in with milliput , the white metal fairleads, the Mary Stanford fairlead and the decks,and then adding a few brackets and such for the fenders, grab ropes and rudder before possibly painting the hulls later this week.
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you would not believe how long it has taken today, just to mask up the decks of three models ready for spraying the antislip areas to the decks, and the deck surrounds..........just unbeleivable, but now it's done, some colour on the models will encourage me to get on with the topside cabins and detailing.
I sprayed the antislip to the parts of the deck needed with a textured paint which dries with a gritty type look, and although not the colour I need for a classic lifeboat, the texture isn't far from what I need, so, not being a true purist, I'll settle for it, with a colour wash later to the lighter grey that I want to match the kick boards.
And in the order, the photos are:
Masking up.
the inner parts of the front cabins of the H F Bailey and the Mary Stanford posed a little dilemma as I had no combings to stick the tape too......so I coated the inner walls with masking tape and then shoved an old rag into the well to cover the floors.....hope it works, lol
And before I sprayed the textured paint which would almost certainly bung up the small 0.5mm holes that I had drilled to take the pins for the kick boards I inserted some longer brass rod into the start and finish holes to locate the kick boards once the paint had dried.
And then using the textured paint and here is a picture of the textured paint can I use for the none slip deck coatings I did a little shaking and then got down to the serious stuff, and added my first colour.
OOOOHHH.can feel the sap rising, lol
With the end result.
Just have to leave it for 24 hours now for the paint to set solid.
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Hi again Neil, this tread is one of the best I have followed on here. I am really looking forward to the painting & finishing work.(one of my really weak points among a lot of others). It was a pleasure speaking to you today on the phone, I really want to get over & meet as many Mayhem members as possible, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly, so to speak, LOL. I really owe some guys a few pints after all the help I have been given on here I will even buy one for Dave @ ACTion & I want to know if Martin is a real person or not, there are rumours that he is an Android, thats why he never has to sleep. Back to your build, it is the prep work that takes the most time & determines the quality of the final finish, ask any autobody painter. Do you spray with an air brush or hand paint with a brush ?, just curious. Mick B.
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Hi Mick - I would like to meet you - you did invite the ugly O0 {-)
Brush or Spray surely can't be the issue here ...............
How does Neil paint anything in his dust shop ........ er work shop I mean? :D
Seriously though - Paint is something I really need to learn about Neil. I have
had some good advice on paint from Peter but it would be nice to also see it
done before I have a go.
Dave
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Do you spray with an air brush or hand paint with a brush ?, just curious. Mick B.
And nice to talk to you as well Mick.
I use automotive sprays from Halfords car care shops, mainly, but do use a brush for such things as the kickboards and have some nice cammel haired brushes for that. I use Humbrol enamel paints for this job, but these paints are the last to go on, as they are fine to paint over and on top of acrylics and cellulose paints..........however,as the age old question of which paint first........you can't paint an acrylic or cellulose paint over and on top of an enamel or oil based paint as the cellulose or acrylic will eat into the enamel and oil paint and leave an "orange peel" effect, and ruin your paint work.
I'll phone Adrian tonight about your Tamar, Mick and then get back to you.........as someone said recently I suppose I'm one of the "clique" that he will talk to....suppose it's because I don't malign or abuse him on open forum every chance I get...{:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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Hi Mick - I would like to meet you - you did invite the ugly O0 {-)
Brush or Spray surely can't be the issue here ...............
How does Neil paint anything in his dust shop ........ er work shop I mean? :D
Seriously though - Paint is something I really need to learn about Neil. I have
had some good advice on paint from Peter but it would be nice to also see it
done before I have a go.
Dave
I normally sheet up and hide it all when I spray, Dave.
As for lessons on painting..........don't look to me for those.........I'm the last one to ask........am sadly very impatient and usually cock it up more that once.
Welsh Wizzard is the man to give lessons on this, and has many times on here and other forums, kindly offered good advice and his knowledge on the subject of how to paint well.
My ignorance of the subject is well known, and that is one of the reasons I prefer to build classics with "wooden" cabins more often than not..they only need varnishing.
neil.
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Varnishing is an art in itself, Neil,
looking forwards to the rest of this superb 3 boat build.
Regards
Richard :-))
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Varnishing and french polishing I can do, Richard...........had plenty of practise doing that as a teacher of woodwork for many a year.............I love bringing out the colours of the grain.....it's the covering up of the natural stuff that I loose patience with, lol
thanks for the comments.
neil.
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today's job, after clearing a little space for working on the 3 boats was to seal the kickboards with cellulose sanding sealer.....3 coats were given and then rubbed down with fine grade wire wool.
Finally I painted them with humbrol enamels.the mary Stanford and the field Marshall and Mrs Smuts were painted a light shade of matt brown tan. (which will be given a coat of satin varnish later)......whilst the H F Bailey boards were painted in a mid satin grey.
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Are you sure that the Mary Stanford's and the FM and MS's toeboards were painted? On all the boats I've seen they were simply varnished. I suppose that these may be exceptions {:-{
Andrew
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yes,andrew...
here's H F Bailey, Mary Stanford in pics......the grey on H F Bailey is plain to see.
the brown on the Mary Stanford comes out red on the bow shot, and faded brownis red over varnish on the two starboard shots of her with the cabin that was added when the Irish harbour board added their touches.
However on the fabulous painting by Tim Thompson of her rescue of the crew from the Daunt Rock lightship in 1936 ( and Tim Thompson was renown for his extensive research, he has painted the kickboards grey).
And finally I had a conversation with an old gentleman in a rest home on Angelsey a few weeks ago who was mechanic and Second coxs'n of Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts when she served at Beaumaris from 1946/47 until sent to the reserve fleet who told me that the kickboards on her were painted a light brown........he had in fact painted them, lol
So I feel justified in painting them that colour. I know that a lot were varnished, the Anne Lettitia Russell was definately varnished, but I try to strive for authenticity on a certain date in history, and may even paint the MS grey rather than red/brown.....haven't made up my mind yet.
Hope this clears up a little ambiguity for you and others.
neil..
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In fact, having looked closer to the bow shots of the Mary Stanford, you can plainly see the under paint of the reddishbrown is grey......so think I'll change that this morning.
Also, the anti fouling on the Mary Stanford will be painted green, to represent the green lead used at period in time of 1936, rather than the red shown in these shots.
neil.
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also whilst I was looking at the paint drying........very theraputic and avoids boredom, I dug out some pieces that I had made some time ago for the boats to see if they were still there and not lost.........luckily I had made double sets for both the watson and the Barnett class boats, and as the watson has changed in design for the second boat somewhat, I was lucky in that I had only lost one piece which was nort needed on the second boat.......the pieces........oh yes..........the timber gratings for the bottom of the floor for the well decks.
The original 5mm square grating was made as an A4 sheet for me by a mate in his woodworking shop where he had access to a radial arm cross cut saw.we riged a jig to lock into each spur in turn to make the grating "teath" (The crossed halving joints that make up the joints) absolutely square and interlocking into the cross members. It was a fete of woodworking and took hours to cut..........we used Obeche to make it, and I was going to use it on a 1:12 scale model of the Duke of Northumberland water jet drive lifeboat of 1886 vintage.
However after producing a mould and a hull for the boat about 18 years ago I lost interest and my mate dumped the mould and moulding, so the only thing that ever got made for that lifeboat was the grating.......so it came in very usefull for the new boats, being the same scale.
I cut sections off the A4 sheet and then edged it with some mahogany "L" shaped banding that I made, also from two pieces of timber.
the smaller section gratings are for another section of the boat and were bought from an ebay supplier.
They will eventually be varnished with a gloss finish ( possibly satin.............yet to decide).
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Yeah, that's definitely cleared it up. Cheers :-)
Andrew
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No problems Andrew.
glad to help.
neil.
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The problem is, of course, that there are very few contemporary colour pictures of the old boats and it can be difficult to judge colour from old orthochromatic black and white film which was very insensitive to blue.
Also, in the '60s a lot of varnished wood was painted over. There's a story we've heard of the mechanic of a Liverpool crying into his beer after his boat went off to refit with a highly polished mahogany canopy, and came back with a few coats of orange paint on it.
(I'm typing this on hear rather than just talking to Andrew, who is no. 2 son, and is sitting about 2 feet away from me as I type this...and it's time for him to make a cuppa! )
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Lance
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Also, in the '60s a lot of varnished wood was painted over. There's a story we've heard of the mechanic of a Liverpool crying into his beer after his boat went off to refit with a highly polished mahogany canopy, and came back with a few coats of orange paint on it.
Lance
I can imagine his language on seeing her coming back home......anglo saxon would not really describe it, lol
I used to chat with the old mechanic of Fleetwood's Watson...........and after a service or practice he would prop the scupper flaps open with matchsticks to let the air through to avoid rot and such.........an area inspector paid an impromptu visit one morning to the boat house and enquired rather hoitily as to what the matchsticks were for.Old 'Drew explained in his broad Scottish accent and told the inspector that they washed out as soon as she hit the water at the end of the slip..........to which he ( the inspector ) virtually accused the mechanic of lying to him, and ordered an immediate launch.
Drew had the maroon fired for standby, the crew all dropped tools from their jobs and raced to the boat house to be told by the inspector that he had ordered the launch ion order to prove that the mechanic was talking b******.......
45 minutes later he left the station with a flee in his ear and egg on his face.....but not before he'd gone round every scupper flap and checked that there weren't any matchsticks left inside the scupper tunnels..........
they certainly knew how to wind up crews in those days.
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One has no choice but to be a lifeboat anorak when one has a Furball for a father :}
Andrew
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)............that's no way to talk about your dad.....................
You sound like my daughters....always giving me grief....... {:-{ <:( <:( <:( <:(
get him to build you a model ....................that'll keep him busy, lol O0 O0 O0 O0 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
and nice to hear from you......but I still can't work out your name on mayhem :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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Lance........I'm going to be down in kent the first week in April for a break.............do you know which lifeboat "museum" the old barnett, stromness class model is in that Brian King restored in an article in Model Boats some years ago
I'd like to visit and take a few shots of her.............it is on the south coast, either in kent or East Sussex.
if you or anyone else know, could they please let me know.
cheers, neil.
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It is (or was last year) in the life boat museum in Eastbourne. I'm sure that they used to have a website, and you could see it in the photos, but the place has just been refurbished and I can't find the site anymore - it might be worth giving them a ring to see if it's still on display. They also had, at one point, the other model made by C.J. Cavell, who was the Walmer mechanic, of the old Walmer boat, but the last time I saw this it was in storage at Pool in a terrible state.
The Barnett model might be labelled up as 'J.J.K.S.W.', but it's actually of 'The Rankin' as it was the only 51 footer in this configuration.
Andrew's building his own boats. The Thurso 47' Watson, Pentland, is sitting nearly complete on the coffee table in front of us. I'm sure he'll post some pictures at some point.
Lance
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Just a guess Neil http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Heritor_Asphodel ;D
I've never played any games though.
Dave
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Got it in one :-)
I read the books a few years ago, and the name sort of stuck :-)
Andrew
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thanks Lance.....Will give then a ring nearer the time.
well Andrew........I'd never have guessed in a million years, and thanks for the link, Dave....will have a look at that.
neil.
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Just a point that you mentioned, Lance..............what was the difference between the Rankin and all the other Barnetts of that class...........would be very interested to know. :-))
neil.
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well, I stripped the masking tape off the decks last night and found I'd dropped a b*****s with one section of one of the boats.........I'd not masked it up properly and it had left a small area not painted that should have been, so had to re mask and spray again....after a couple of hours and a quick colour wash job it had blended in with the other areas that had been painted and didn't look too bad, although there was a join line.........I can cover that on the model with a couple of hanks of rope..........so all was not lost.
Also I found that there had been very little weepage under the masking tape of the very thin paint wash and this was soon scraped off to leave clean edged.
I had repainted the kick boards for the Mary Stanford to grey earlier in the day and had then painted some fairleads in antique bronze and a full 3 sets of kick board brackets in grey.
To end off the day's work I made a mould from 3 old grab rails I had made out of room temperature vulcanising rubber, plastecine and Lego building blocks which I will eventually cast for deck fittings for the Mary Stanford and H F bailey.
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well, I stripped the masking tape off the decks last night and found I'd dropped a b*****s with one section of one of the boats.........I'd not masked it up properly and it had left a small area not painted that should have been, so had to re mask and spray again....after a couple of hours and a quick colour wash job it had blended in with the other areas that had been painted and didn't look too bad, although there was a join line.........I can cover that on the model with a couple of hanks of rope..........so all was not lost.
Also I found that there had been very little weepage under the masking tape of the very thin paint wash and this was soon scraped off to leave clean edged.
I had repainted the kick boards for the Mary Stanford to grey earlier in the day and had then painted some fairleads in antique bronze and a full 3 sets of kick board brackets in grey.
To end off the day's work I made a mould from 3 old grab rails I had made out of room temperature vulcanising rubber, plastecine and Lego building blocks which I will eventually cast for deck fittings for the mary Stanford and H F bailey.
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Just a point that you mentioned, Lance..............what was the difference between the Rankin and all the other Barnetts of that class...........would be very interested to know. :-))
neil.
I think I can answer this one. (Dad speaks a lot of it) :-)
Rankin had an internal rudder, similar to the one on the H. F. Bailey, so the rudder gearbox was further forward than it was on the other boats of the class.
The engine bulkhead was a single piece and was angled, like the later boats, and it never had the breakwater by the forward shelter, so the front of it was semicircular. On the aft shelter, it didn't have the single piece windscreen so the shelter was extended aft slightly, as it had the frame for a three piece windscreen. (but it only had a small square screen on the front section).
And finally I think I'm right in saying that all the previous boats had relieving tubes to get rid of the water through the bottom of the hull, while the two last boats (Rankin and Southern Africa) had scuppers in the sides of the hull instead.
I think Furball put up a couple of photos on his thread, including one of Cavell's model. If I've missed anything else I'm sure he'll correct me :-))
Andrew
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thanks andrew.very interesting indeed.............I knew at least one boat had the rudder in the deadwood...............but didn't realise which boat it was.
cheers for the info.
neil.
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Seem to have made one step forward and two steps back today.
I made a set of moulds yesterday for making some grab rails for the deck, but for some unknown reason ( and I've never had it happen before) the both halves set (at different times) with humps in the centres of the mould........so that when I sandwich them between two pieces of ply the outer edges of the moulds don't clamp up properly and they weep any resin that is poured into the moulds.
So I have had to make the boxes again to fit the mould halves and tomorrow I'll mix some rubber and catylist and pour the rubber into the moulding box, and then place one half at a time over that rubber.......this will then give me some "flat" surfaces that when sandwiched between the ply backing sheets will give equal pressure all around the mould.
But that wasn't the end of the story..........I bought on line some Polyurethane quick set resin a few weeks ago.
now this stuff is supposed (as I have always found in the past when casting) to remain subtle and not crack or shatter, and is actually carvable even when months old and fully cured.
Well this pack of stuff that I bought from a new supplier ( to me...They've been around some time though) is possibly a bad batch, as the resin shatters even when splitting the two haves of the mould.........it is more brittle than polyester grp resin........
so hopefully the company will be able to give me some hints as to what is wrong with the stuff when I phone them tomorrow....don't know what's wrong with it though.......not the norm as far as I know from past experience.
but at least I managed to get all the kick boards fitted this afternoon...which, after the disappointment of the moulds and resin cheered me up a little ..ggrrrrrr {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
[attachment deleted by admin]
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anyway, apart from that little debacle.....I at least managed to get some building done and put the kickboards and brackets on to all three boats today, so a litttle detailing has taken place.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Sorry Gentlemen,
I've accidentally deleted some photos, please can you repost them and I'll move back to the right place. :embarrassed:
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no probs martin, will repost it when the repairs to my mould are finished, lol.in the meantime........a thanks are needed.
Well Guys, many thanks for all your help and advice about the polyurethane resin which I also spoke about on this topic..
the problem is now sorted.
I rang East Coast glass fibre supplies this morning and spoke to the technical advisor called Martin......and he couldn't have been more helpfull and apologetic for my dilhema and totally understood what I was trying to do..........in their defence the technical data sheet says that the minimum thickness for a mould is 3mm, and I was trying to mould 4mm thickness so was right on the edge.
Martin agreed with me that the resin was not suitable for what I was wanting to do, and as such said that if I reurned the twin pack of resin to him he would give me a full refund for the product, even though I had opened the tins and used a little.
I CANNOT ASK FOR BETTER SERVICE THAN THAT, and my thanks and praise go out to East coast fibreglass supplies....many thanks.
neil.
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after sorting out my resin and rectifying my mould( I hope so anyway), I spent an hour cleaning up the "gobeye" faileads on all three boats....all a little different, and this one in the picture has a roller set outside similar to the old Anne Letitia Russell.
Also added the bracket to hold the rope fender in place.
The photo behind is from the bow of the H F Bailey.
Now a question for the Judges at show level
If I were to enter these models in show I would put them in scratch section.
However some would say that some of the fittings were from the kit Anne Letitia Russell.......correct I say, but as I designed these fittings years ago, and are from a stock that I had set behind to give future lifeboats some detail...........would they be classed as scratch or part kit........
I'd like to see what judges like Colin Bishop have to say on this matter.................as we all know what people think about putting commercial fittings on "scratch build" models in a show..........
just interested.
neil.
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I have never known one single mould cause me so much hassle and bother..........firstly as I said in a previous posting yesterday, the mould for the hand rails came out with a hump on each reverse side (i.e. the back of both halves.)
and when I tried clamping together the outer edges sprang open..the only way to correct these was to make a box for each half...lay some rubber into the bottom of the boxes and them lay each half back into the box with the back face making contact with the new rubber............and no release agent between the new rubber and the mould..........the idea being thet the new rubber would adhere to the old mould...........normally without rubber this would happen..............not with this mould for some reason.
firstly the rubber, which had set yesterday within a couple of hours...............took the heat from the radiator all day to go off...........and then when I took the lego away from the newly "repaired" moulds, sod me if the rubber had stuck to the lego but not to the old mould...........I just can't believe that the same rubber from the same tin, with the same amount of catylist can behave totally diferent on two separate days............
I have made hundreds of these rubber moulds over the past 20 years, and never ever have I had so many problems in such a short time.........it has stumped me..............if it don't work this time then it'll be the bin and start again.
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You made the fittings originally, so to me they're still scratch built - for you.
Lance
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I have made hundreds of these rubber moulds over the past 20 years, and never ever have I had so many problems
{-) Have you considered you might just be losing your marbles mate %% %% %% {-)
and I agree with Lance - when you use them they are scratch built - can't be anything else.
Dave
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{-) Have you considered you might just be losing your marbles mate %% %% %% {-)
and I agree with Lance - when you use them they are scratch built - can't be anything else.
Dave
I would agree with you guys........but would a judge???
as for losing my marbles..........think I lost them years ago when I got married, {-) {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% %%
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Hi Neil, there are rumours about that you never had any marbles to start with. LOL. Mick B.
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Thankyou for those words of support matey....... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
I'll have that put on my headstone, %% %% %%
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Will that be scratchbuilt?
Dave
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Will that be scratchbuilt?
Dave
Out of ployester resin dave, lol
anyway, to today's little foray into modelling.
spent some of the afternoon sorting out some deck fittings that I cast earlier last year for the three boats.....some fairleads, cleats and some filler caps and bilge pump caps..........also made up three compass binacles and wheel sets, but the initial coat of primer is drying at the moment.
here are the fittings which now need cleaning up, and a little sanding and getting rid of resin globules formed by bubbles in the rubber.
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May I ask what the rectangular frames are in the second photo?
Andrew
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Hi Andrew.
yes, they are the frames for the surrounds to the deck lights set into the decks.......under them will be some coloured plastic to represent the glass for the "lights"
they all look a little shabby at the moment, with all the flash on them, but all will look well, and clean when the masters go to Dave for casting.
neil.
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well, the paint dried and they don't look too bad........need painting in final colours of light grey and brass but that'll come later.
9 seperate little mouldings and 6 short brass pins go to make up the ships compass binacle for the Mary Stanford and the H F bailey..the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts has a seperate wheel standard and compass on gimballs similar to the Anne Letitia Russell.
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Was a bit of a mish mash day today.......I didn't really know which way I was going, and had already got out some of the deck fitting which needed painting and fixing.......and so went down that direction............i realised from the start that I hadn't, before fitting the deck, cut out the rectangles for the deck(dead)lights, so had to do this in situ using a craft knife and chisel..so that was the first task on two of the three boats H F Bailey, and the Field Marshal, as the Mary Stanford is not showing any on plans.
Secondly I painted the fairleads with Antique Bronze Humbrol metalcote ( which is a brushed finish once dry), and the deck filler caps with metalcote Polished Steel, again a brushed finish.
The inside of the recesses were first painted also with polished steel and allowed to dry before brush polishing and allowing a little darkened residue to overflow onto the surrounding deckwork to "weather" it a little.and the deck filler/bilge pump caps were finally set into place in the recesses already cut into the deck.
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To be strictly accurate, the pump deck plates and fuel fillers are bronze as well, although they tend to go green/black fairly quickly as you can't easily polish between the grooves in them (guess how I know this... %)).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VsHS5vdOQY0/T0tGNpdHRpI/AAAAAAAAAP8/abCL3niwiDc/s512/DSC_0118.JPG)
If you can see it, this one's in the cabin of a 46'9" Watson, but the pump deck plates didn't change for decades
Lance
Note to self - I must get photos of all these fittings on t'interweb so you can all see what the real things look like.
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cheers lance.......much appreciated.
neil.
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Today was predominantly spent putting the stanchions and bracket plates together for the three boats..........over 80 in total plus some spares should I break any lol.
Firstly needed to pilot drill the plates with a 1.5mm bit and then enlarge this to 3mm.tricky as the casting is only 4mm in diameter, so no mistakes here...well one ot two went off course and had to be thrown away, but only half a dozen or so.......well I was getting pretty pee'd off with them after 160 holes drilled...each plate being held in snub nosed pliers whilst drilling in a pillar drill.
then I had to sand down the shank of each stanchion to fit into the 3mm diameter hole............
once this was done, I glued each stanchion into its mounting plate with cyano.
Then, because the holes in the balls of the stanchion leave the generic fitting from the Rother class boat from the Metcalf Mouldnings range a little weak I put pre cut plastic tube inserts into the holes and glued with cyano again.
Tomorrow when the cyano has set rock hard, I'll trim the surplus plastic tube from the balls of the stanchions, and then drill through the back of the plates with another 1.5mm drill bit to take a pin for holding the plates and stanchions to the kick boards.
Meanwhile, I took two plugs that I had made some years ago for the large and small ventilation cowls for the class of boats, and using my dremel dril with a dentist's drill burr I reamed out the inner part for the vent cowl in order to cast.
Lifeboats of the older classic type that carried these vent cowls splash guards fitted into the bell mouth of the cowel, so that in heavy weather if the boat took a heavy sea, the cowl would not let water flood down the hole in the bell mouth to the lower boat,but down the side of the vent tube and into the outlets at the base of the cowl trunk. As these were rather intricate, to try to copy them in a fitting would be impossible so a near representation to the real thing is only possible and this I represent with a piece of tubing, and some Milliput epoxy putty to form the correct shape of the vent interior.....this will be sanded tomorrow also, and then put into a rubber mould for casting replicas for the models.
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yesterday i spent tarting up those cowl vents shown above and today I spent some time putting them into moulds.
so in quick succesion here's a photo record of laying them up through taking the plastecine off for the second half, to splitting the finished mould......the cylindrical objects in with the moulds of the cowl heads are the trunks for the cowl..It was easier to make these than go hunting at a later date for dowel of the correct diameter to mate up with the cowl head trunks.
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Yesterday I started putting the miriad of fittings together...they are minature kits themselves.
The first of them was the Cable cutter......a devise for quickly cutting a veering anchor cable should the boat need to break away from it's veer down onto a casualty in an emergency.
All the fittings that I am now putting together were made in masters moulded and cast anywhere between 2 and 15 years ago, and I am now only just getting to grips with them.
So the cable cutter. I can only find evidence of this on the Mary Stanford boat.
This was made from a plasticard set of masters and moulded in rtv30 rubber and cast in polyurethane resin.
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next two fittings on the agenda were the cable stopper and the mast tabernacle for the H F Bailey.
again, all parts made some time ago.
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Fascinating details Neil. What lovely workmanship. :-))
ken
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I am not sure what to say Neil, everyday a new surprise from you, just terrific workmanship all over. I am assuming you had to make the moulds for all the bits you are showing on here. It might be nice to see a little bit on how you do it & how much the whole thing costs to do & the time involved . Mick B.
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Thanks kenny and Mick....appreciate the comments...............I thought I'd gone through the process of making a mould earlier in the build log, Mick........if I hadn't I can do.
Do you want it in more detail.
neil.
anyway, as a little taster here is the next fitting that \i did......the main davit and base for the Mary Stanford "fisherman's pattern" anchor carried on her starboard side and used for veering down on a casualty.
The four triangular shaped supports should, as with real boat have cut outs, but I feel that this would , on a working model weaken them and as such I have made them solid from polyU castings.
also on the model, the davit is ( from memory) filmed on this occasion on the port and not the starboard side.......but it ain't fixed yet anyway, lol
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funnily............................
the actual white metal davit is cast from a davit I made in brass some years ago to replace the davits on a Mountfleet Models St Nectan steam trawler for a pattern that fitted my modified trawler.................exactly the same diameter, same length, just a little difference on the curve of the top part, and as I cast with a little more lead in my white metal than some ( well no child is going to come along and chew my davits now, are they, LOl),...........................
...................... I was able to bend the davit to the right curvature.....
made a lot more sense than making another in brass and then moulding it............... just for the Mary Stanford.
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It's O/K for now Neil, we can get to that another time. I am getting excited about my Tamar kit I hope all goes to plan, I am a long way away if things go wrong & may need your help mate if that happens, Mick B.
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No problems with that Mick.......in the "clique" as someone once said, lol......hope you enjoy the build.
Anyway............
Another fitting completed yesterday was the Mast Tabernacle for the Mary Stanford..........totally different to theone on the H F Bailey, and yet again tho that on the FM and Mrs S.....and that one I haven't made yet, never mind cast.
This one has been a mixture of white metal for the uprights, polyU for the back and side gussets and obeche' spacer for the bottom of the actual tabernacle
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Hi Neil ,you are up early & in your shop, me it is 1.45 pm, so off to bed I go. Mick B.
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yep, I am that Mick.........got to make a start on putting all these together, lol.....there's a lad in California building a Dumas 36' lifeboat,on the RC models web forum and I've promissed him some handrails for it, so was casting like a man possessed yesterday and might be able to get them off to him today............they are generic with the ones I'm fixing to the bow section of the Mary Stanford so he might as well have some whilst they come out the same mould as mine, lol....what's a little resin??
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:((
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whay the sad face?
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coz gateway504 timed me out again, and when I got back into it......the post had been made in duplicate.......so I deleted all content and just left a sad face, matey.........rather than a blank post.
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Ah ok
Thought it had all gone horribly and irretrievably wrong!
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Sorry about your 504 error Neil
My advice is to never continue, but to close down the site and re-open it again.
All messages are getting through, so there will be duplicates if you continue.
Hope this helps.
ken
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cheers, kenny.......so when the gateway pops up......just close it and then re open......OK :-))
Yes ...... it might be advisable to Copy first, Just in case. ;) ken
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Ah ok
Thought it had all gone horribly and irretrievably wrong!
No essex...........if that happens the bovine excretia will flow and I'll cover my tracks eminantly well, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Have to call you Izal... as the S..t don't stick lol :D
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well.......I suppose it's not the worst thing I've ever been called, {-) {-) {-)
anyway, back to the build.
Yesterday I'd started to cast in polyU resin the cowl vents and the trunks for them.
Today was a time to glue them together. I always finf that drilling by eye and finding the centre of a circle ( i.e. the centre of the trunks ) for pinning the two pieces together isn't easy.......so have found in the past that if you drill the holes oversize for the brass pin to be used, you can adjust the position of both parts to get them fitting properly.......I set them together using two part epoxy glue.
However, when sorting out the bases for both sizes of cowl vent trunks I found that there were none to the new size which is larger than those used on the Anne Letitia Russell..............so I set about turning two of each size needed on the laithe from brass bar.
First, on this process, I centre drilled the brass with a live centre tool, and then drilled the smaller hole with a HSS drill bit to the same size as the trunk.
However, the larger trunk needed a hole outside the size I carry, and so I used a cutting tool to cut a hole into the centre of the brass bar as per trunk diameter (after pre drilling a hole to the largest size of drill bit I have).
I then cut the bases out using a couple of tools with the laithe, and finally cleaned the fittings up, before parting off with a straight cut parting tool.
they are now set into a plastecine and lego mould box ready for casting a 1 piece mould for surface pouring and casting with polyU resin.
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and to turning the bases for the cowl vents.............
and the finished product ready for moulding and casting.
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gonna weigh me scrap swarf in and buy a tamar kit I think, {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% %% %%
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Your parting tool works a lot better than mine I can tell you. I don't know what you pay for brass over there but it is now like gold here. I must go & buy some tomorrow & am dreading the thought. Your ability to make bits & pieces never seizes to amaze me & the speed at which you get things done is frankly unreal. I feel like having a fire when I see what you can do, not much hope for us peon's. Mick B.
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I get mine from a mate in the biz.........he makes lighting fixtures for a living, and always has scrap pieces liying around..........so I'm lucky there. O0
neil.
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got up early this morning to mould the rubber and then make a casting.......turned out better that I thought,
this is the simplest of methods of casting......open casts, where you only need to cast one side of the master..........not done it in ages, but it has worked out well with the first casting coming out clean and crisp.
neil.
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Like I said before, Genius, pure Genius. Mick B.
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In an earlier post can be seen the cowl vents abreast of the funnel.
But where did I get the funnels from in the first place........I made the funnels at size I wanted from blocks of obeche timber and then cut them in to two halves, thus, the timber lost would allow for the thickness of the plastic.
Then I set them onto a board, drilled with a 3mm bit in a grid of 10mm square all around the funnel halves.
That was then presented to my very friendly school head of CDT dept where my daughters attend, and he vac formed the funnel halves for me.
It was just a matter then of cutting them to the right lines imprinted on the vac formings, bracing them on the inside with plasticard strips and gluing together.
I false top was plased inside the top rim of the funnel once the top of the moulding had been cut out and trimmed....a top rim of plasticard was cut to shape and added onto the funnel.
On the funnel for dry fitting is the white metal base flange................made some time ago.......I was going to replace that with polyU castings but can't find the mould, so cleaned up the white metal ones and fitted them to the funnels at the right height for the funnel in question...each being a different length depending on where they were stationed and depending on the headroom in the boat house.
Also on the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts, the funnel has a capping, which I have made in milliput for casting, and this was cast today but I've forgotten to take a photo of the finished casting so will post that tomorrow,it looks a lot better than the teracota coloured capping shown in the picture.....but the workshop is now closed for the night, and I'm having a nice beer to relax. O0 O0 O0 O0
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well, Been putting this part off far too long.
Earlier in the build I pointed to having a removable floor in all the cabin wells..........
After fitting the decks I soon realised that the provision for removing the decks in the fore cabins of both the Mary Stanford and the H F Bailey was an absolute none starter....as the decks could no longer be got out..........it's just lucky that I had put the floors in before I laid the decks or I wouldn't have got them in other than in pieces.not the best way.
becaue the fore cabin of the Field marshal is removable, so is the deck of the fore cabin............but on reflection I don't think this is needed either.
However, the rear cabin well decks do need to be removable but in the configuration I had had them, I couldn't get them into the aft well decks because of the rear overhang of the decks, and so re designed them today so that there was more of a perimeter to the removable deck with small supports glued to the under sides of the perimeter deck to hold the removable part.
Also this perimeter gives the space to fit the side benches in all the well decks and any other detailing on the well deck floors including gratings, wheel columns and such will come out with the deck.
So today, I spent today altering those features.
I also made the grating for the steering platform that goes to the aft of the fore cabin of the Field Marshal.
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I suppose ( and also believe) that models should have a focal point to draw people into the boat ( or what ever you are modelling), and these lifeboats are no exception..the usual item is the detailing inside the cockpit ( which will come later) but there is one thing on the lifeboat Mary Stanford which really stands out on the model and that is the main hand cranked windlass situated on the engine casing. This is a little minature kit in it's self and once detailed with paint will really draw people into it.
It took me a good number of hours to draw this item from photos, and plans before I figured out a) how it worked and b) how to model it.
I then made from the drawings and photographs the masters in plasticard so that I could mould it in polyU and/or white metal for the model.
It then took around 20 - 25 hours to make the masters from plasticard.....over a period of two weeks working in an evening.
This set of masters I put into a circular mould for my centrifugal caster, before casting in white metal and them polyU ( just to see the physical weight of the object). The white metal set was , I felt too heavy a fitting in total, to place on the top side of the model and so resorted to using the polyU fitting set.
In the end I made up a windlass from the fittings cast, plus several lengths of 1.8mm and 2.8mm rod and a piece of 20mm diameter plumbers upvc water pipe for the drum centre, and below is the part finished windlass sprayed in grey undercoat.
This is my Pièce de résistance
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Today, I have spent the time getting the engine room casing of the mary Stanford to fit, not only to the combings but also into the rear cabin of the Mary Stanford.
This meant fitting wooden stops into the inside of the moulding, a stop on the deck, a spacer on the side wall to keep the casing in the correct position on the deck, a small vertical wall to the aft end of the casing and an angled and horizontal facia to the aft end of the casing.
These last two peices, made from 1.8mm ply hide any spaces when the cabin and the engine casing meet.
Sadly the casing has, over the past six years since I moulded it, sagged in the centre of the top and so I had to skim it today like a plasterer skimming an uneven wall...took about 3mm down the centreof the moulding to get the whole thing flat. you can see the amount from the picture five where the horizontal facia lies well above the centre line of the casing.
I felt that the joining of these two grp mouldings would never make a good permenant fixing and so they will be left as two seperate fixtures.
photos in order are.... spacer to sides of combings to fix position of casing.
fitting angled facia to casing
fitting small vertical wall to line up casing to inner foreward bulkhead of well deck
drilling casing to gain a purchase for gluing horezontal facia to casing.
fixing facia with polyester filler
facia in place and sanded down.also top of casing levelled off with polyester filler.
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A couple of questions Neil, Where did you get the casting machine & what does a machine like that cost ?. Do you make the moulds yourself & if so how ?. Is the material that you use easy to use & is it expensive & readily available ?. From these questions it is obvious I don't know squat about the process. Pure genius, thats what you are, Mick B.
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A couple of questions Neil, Where did you get the casting machine & what does a machine like that cost ?. Do you make the moulds yourself & if so how ?. Is the material that you use easy to use & is it expensive & readily available ?. From these questions it is obvious I don't know squat about the process. Pure genius, thats what you are, Mick B.
Hi Mick......to answer your questions in order:
here is the supplier and the machine I use.bought it in 1994 with my severence pension lump sum when I retired from teching on ill health grounds.
http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Centricast&Subcategory=64&Subdivision=
Yes, I make the moulds myself, using all the tools and rings/plates that I bought with the caster/melt pot.there is a full instruction book for people like yourself who live on the other side of the pond, or if you fancied the trip to reading, they will give lessons, free of charge at their place of business on how to make a mould and then cast it.....very very nice people to deal with.
The materials used are very readily available from different outlets..just search for RTV rubber for moulding ( RTV= Room Temperature Vulcanising) although I ALWAYS buy mine from Tiranti's as their service is so good, never had any problems with it or the delivery and it is slightly cheeper than other outlets in this country. They cost me ( at the moment) about £100-120 for a 5 kilo drum, and this will make around 5 -6 x 10" round moulds or 7 -8 x 7" rounds or depending on thickness of mould for moulding such deep things as vent cowls, around 30 + box hand moulds.....and you can get quite a lot of mouldings out of a mould........before they need refreshing. I have had 100+ white metal castings out of some early stuff and they are still working.
I'll put up a step by step sequence on making a mould if you are interested.
The system is quite expensive ( to the average modeller, who just wants to do a few,) but I was setting up a business in 1994 and needed a caster to cast multiple castings......and to be honest, it has been worth it's weight in gold.....a brilliant machine.
But for those who wish to make just a few repetative moulds, then leg bricks, plastecine and a 1 kilo tub is all that's needed to get started........then the fun starts..........and it is fun believe me.
Neil.
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The two pics posted here finish off the rear Bulkhead for the Mary Stanford, and the front well deck with putting in a shelf. this shelf will hold the Oil Tank, subsidiary tank and hand pump, for dispelling oil over the side of the lifeboat to "calm heavy seas" when going in for a rescue..........This dispensing of oil was used to some effect for many years, and most boats carried a tank of some sort, especially in the period that I am building. 1930's - 1949.
Any small gaps in side the rear cabin between the bulkhead and the cabin grp moulding will be disguised by the actual framework and bracing of the cabin which will be inserted later as detailing
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In my striven aim to get the 3 boats ready for painting the insides of the well decks I had to finish off the rear cockpit bulk head of the Field Marshal today.
This also needed the existing bulkhead to be raised and a horezontal section fitting to meet up with the cabin moulding when placed ontop the deck.
There will be detailing that goes onto this area so needed to be done today, before all inner well decks could finally be sanded and sealed with cellulose wood sealer.
Finally for the woodworking part of today I fitted the grating that I made the other day, into the aft end of the fore cabin of the Field Marshal.
But the building didn't stop there.whilst I was waiting for timbers to glue and sealer to dry, I knocked up a small "lift and force" hand pump which will be connected to the oil storage tanks in the fore cabins of the Mary Stanford and H F Bailey, and the aft cabin of the Field Marshal. It will go into the next rubber mould that I am making. It was made purly from plasicard sheet and tubing with a little brass rod thrown in.
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aven't done much the last couple of days.....still recovering from my aging hippy sojourn to see the tribute Pink floyd gig..........getting too old for those sort of things, lol.
then this morning spent most of my time driving around different outlets looking for a light grey enamel paint to paint the inside of all the well decks.......with no success.
so all I have done is clean up all the ragged edges of the cabin openings ready for detailing the inside of the cabins.....for this I used a Dremmel roller disc pad to get around the curves and a b*****d toothed file ( the ones with sharp course toothed blades) which went through the grp well, and soon took me down te the masked lines on the mouldings.
Tomorrow it's the time to fit the rear cabin for the Mary Stanford so that it is housed on the deck without any movement, and then to sand the inside of each cabin and skim with a filler for a smooth effect before ribbing them all up.
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this eventually will be the effect inside the cockpits of all the six cabins on the three lifeboats, and will be hopefully achieved with the aid of some picture mounting card (that I obtained FOC from a local picture framing shop this morning) a red mahogany stain, some Humbrol Teak colourd enamel, clear varnish and plenty of prayers.lol
watch this space. %% %% %% %%
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A MESSAGE FOR FURBALL
Lance.........could you please do a little digging for me as to the colour of the anti fouling on the afloat boat Mary Stanford.........I have old black and white shots of her that show what looks like a dark colour which could be green lead antifouling.
The Rankin model that we have talked about had green antifouling which was somewhat the norm in those days,,
and yet I have some later photos of the Mary Stanford when she was partially restored about 30 years ago before being left to rot, and she had red anti fouling.................I think she would look nice in green.
Also what colour blue would you use for the upper hull........they were a lot lighter in those days than they are now and would also like to colour match that up.......if you have contacts at Chatham, could you please do a little research for me .
many thanks in anticipation. :-))
neil.
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if you have contacts at Chatham
Um....that would be me then :D
There seems to be very little colour information on the early boats. Possibly the early antifouling was green because it had a high copper content. Certainly green was used as there's a series of pictures in E.W.Middleton's book 'Lifeboats of the World' of our Arun undergoing self-righting trials clearly showing a green bottom.
Possibly, when they went over to using tributyl tin based stuff the colour changed to red?
I think the green looks good - that's what what colour I'll be using on mine.
As for the blue, I'd say stick with the Oxford Blue. There seems to be anecdotal evidence that at one time the colour was 'French Aquamarine' (which still seems to be a dark blue), but this was in a letter by a bunch of artists at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, so might not be what the RNLI called it. It seems in the 19th century there might have been a pale blue - but nobody seems to know exactly what colour it was. There are no colour pictures from around this time, the only thing to go on are paintings.
For example :
(http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/thumbnail/184817/1/The-Lifeboat,-1873.jpg)
This is by W.L. Wyllie in 1873 - and he was the main signatory of that letter mentioned earlier - so the dark 'French ultramarine' seems to be in use at this period.
also :
(http://www.jamesalder.co.uk/images/uploaded/539_thomas-rose-miles-de.jpg)
by Thomas Rose Miles c1888
Although William Broome's paintings of the Ramsgate Lifeboat in the late 1800's do seem to show a paler colour.
http://www.ramsgatelifeboat.org.uk/art-gallery.htm (http://www.ramsgatelifeboat.org.uk/art-gallery.htm)
What you cannot go by are the shades on early black and white photos, as they used an orthochromatic film which was insensitive to blue and shows it lighter and more sensitive to red which shows up darker.
Lance
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Hi Lance
I saw a post of yours mentioning the Walmer boat.
Was this the Charles Dibden?
A 42ft Watson beach boat?
If it was I would love any info on the boat(model)
I have a very good reason for asking as I was involved
in a very involved conversion of said vessel
Ned
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thanks for that info, Lance...much appreciated....I have some shots of MS just after she came out of service with the lighter blue...will try having a match for that down at halfords...if I can't find one I revert back to oXford Blue, which is lighter than galaxy blue used on the modern boats.
thanks.
neil.
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I think that's been repainted Neil, and very, very faded.
The name's been painted in white, and it's had a couple of modern flags slapped on it.
Lance
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Hi Lance
I saw a post of yours mentioning the Walmer boat.
Was this the Charles Dibden?
A 42ft Watson beach boat?
If it was I would love any info on the boat(model)
I have a very good reason for asking as I was involved
in a very involved conversion of said vessel
Ned
Hi Ned,
The one I was talking about earlier was the 41' Beach Watson 'Charles Dibden Civil Service No. 2', O.N.762 - Walmer 1933-59, last seen in Dover, not the later 42' 'Charles Dibden Civil Service No. 32', O.N. 948, at Walmer from 59-75, became cabin cruiser 'Charlie Dee' in 1998.
Is this the one you did?
We do have a model of the Dungeness 42' Watson 'Mabel E. Holland' on display at Chatham.
Lance
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Think you might be right there lance............Will stick to Oxford Blue.
Anyway..........back to the model............There's a great deal of argument about kit build vs scratch build in modelling and sadly I have found in the past that some who scratch build think that they are in an elite e'chelon of modellers, which to me is somewhat sad.
I like both kit and scratch build and have always defended those who enjoy their modelling through kits.
However I do find that scratch building hones my personal skills and makes me think that little bit more than if I were building from a kit.......and that showed today, more than ever.
I was taught my modelling skills by two great men, and I mean great.
The first was my grandad who, when I was just 8 and starting to build models, was himself, almost totally blind.
He had been, in his own lifetime, a master cabinet maker and pattern maker, and once said to me......"I don't need eyes to see what i am making anymore, my hands are my eyes, and if something feels right, it is right, and you can always adjust how it feels"
The second "great" man who taught me another valuable lesson was Frank Hinchliffe......we had many an hour discussing models at his home in Meltham, and he once said to me........, "if you make a cock up on a model, you can always correct it for the public...and you can cover your mistake by making that mistake to look a believable plause on your model", and then he would add....."you know, Bulls*** baffles brains and if you put enough other detailing on your model, those little mistakes will be lost to all but the fanatical modeller....and they won't be buying my kits anyway...they'll be scratch building"
So the cockup that I have made on the mary Stanford rear well deck and cabin, comes into that catagory, but I confess, it has been somewhat of a little problem for the past few weeks.
When I measured out all the deck beams, decks and overlays and well deck wooden pieces, to co incide with fitting up to my grp cabin mould I made a mistake on the measurements, and although the cabin is to the size shown on the plans, the actual well deck comes in undersize so that some spacers have had to be fitted to the cabin sides, and as such this then left a gap between the cabin aft sides and the well deck....a glaring gap, which I had to do something with, and so, modellers license came into show with a solution to put a shelf around the cabin wall which will cover that gap.
Fortunately this can be altered on the screen printed ply parts to overcome that gap, but it would have meant ripping out the whole well deck, decking and sub decking for me to alter it on this boat.....something I wasn't prepared to do, and as such.....it's a case of "it's my boat......and it's staying like that"
Luckily the kit models would be modified, and this is what buiulding a prototype is for...to bring out the problems and foibles of a development.
the following shots are to show the coverup of a cockup, lol
As for the other two models, the HF Bailey and the Field Marshal....I got thode measurements bob on, and the cabins fit snug and tight.
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Might not get chance to post anything for the rest of the day, as it's my daughters 15th birthday today, and I'm the taxi for her and her friends for their Alpaca walking and horse riding trip so will do it now.
But between glue setting and sanding, I managed to get the protection bars on the portholes( generic to the Anne Lettitia Russell) glued on using cyano, and also drilled and enlarged the holes in the cabins of all the boats for the portholes to fit.....it's starting to take shape now.
I had to cut these into the cabins before I put the inside details in place..that's the next job.
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Sorry for butting in Neil
I just wanted to answer Lance.
It was the Charlie Dee that I was involved in.
Thanks for the info
Yours Aye
Ned
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Just like to say, just how lucky we are, to have not one, but three Lifeboat Builds, taking place on a step by step basis. Although a p#ss poor modeller myself, this ongoing build has given me new insight in "how to do it" I am sure it is giving confidence to new modellers,and even those more experienced,are able to learn something. THIS,I would call a MASTERCLASS.
I know you are a pal, Neil, but a big THANKS for showing us how.
Mick
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I don't mind you "butting in" Ned.............it all adds to the information that can be gleaned from a post/blog such as is..........if people don't like going off "tack" everynow and then...................they shouldn't be "sailors" {-) {-) {-) {-)
cheers Mick for those kind words as well.
neil.
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just going on what Mick said about info...........I forgot to say, that up until yesterday when I drilled and enlarged the holes in the GRP cabins for the ports, I had always drilled undersize and then enlarged the holes to the correct diameter using a piece of abrasive paper rolled around a pencil to keep straight and stif.....yesterday i found one of these in abag of old bits that someone had given me some time ago http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140316270491?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648
and I used that......it was pure magic and I cut those to size..........all 25 holes in around 30 minutes......a saving of around 3 hours........so I ordered some more off ebay, lol
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Well, I had more time on my hands than I thought I would today, so decided that I couldn't put off the start of detailing the insides of the cockpits any further.....so made a start.
Where the inner cockpit can be seen ( on all of the boats there is a little of one or other of the cockpits that is hidden by one of the bulkheads except for the Mary Stanford, where both interiors of the cockpits are totally visible to the viewer) the grp has to be smoothed off and then filled, before sanding "flat". I used a power file to remove any highlights in the grp layup, and then skimmed the whole of the visible areas with stopper putty which just filled the low parts of the mouldings.
Once dry and set I sanded off with 40 and 120 grade grit, to give a reasonably smooth finish.
Finally for the day, I started laying the ribs to the cockpit frame, using card and aliphatic resin glue....sticks card to grp very well.
The card I use is 2mm picture framing card, which I got from a local gallery FOC from the kind owner, who had just framed my beautiful print of the Mary Stanford on her most famous of rescues.
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Having laid the main king plank into all six of the cockpit mouldings I now cut strips of card 3.5mm wide and progressively clad the interiors of the cabins today.....the only one I did get finished ready for sealing was the Mary Stanford, and but for an hour's break for evening meal I started at 1.15 pm this afternoon and have just finished the first set of cabins and laid the longitudinal ribs on the other four cabins........ it's now 22.15 hours.......long and tedious work.
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looking good Neil ! If it is card you are using, how do you plan to stop it delaminating? Could you repeat the make of the glue you are using please?
Cheers,
Mick
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Hi Mick....the card will be sealed with sanding sealer after being stained with mahogany water soluable stain....then varnished..the inbetween paintwork will be painted with a teak coloured enamel.
the glue I use for this application is an Aliphatic quick grab resin glue.
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got up early this morning \nd made a start on the other cabins.....such a long haul yesterday that I thought the sooner I made a start the sooner I'd have them all finished.......hopefully have them all done today, lol
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I like the idea of the card. I didn't know it would bond with Aliphatic resin to fibreglass.
You made a good job with the straight edges and the effect is great. Keep them good ideas coming. :-))
ken
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It sticks like the preverbial, Kenny...........and it's so quick to bond, after a couple of minutes being held, you have to cut the section off with a scalpal if you make a mistake,
I've never modelled with card before other than for detailing such as plating but can now see why some modellers use this sort of material for actually building their models.
neil.
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I finally finished cladding the cockpit inners with stringers after 13.5 hours work over two days.........finishing them off by sealing with cellulose sanding sealer and then allowing them all to harden off before doing anything else.
Finally today I fitted the side plates which incorporate hand grab rails onto the fore cockpit of the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts.
Strangely this boat and the Earlier Anne lettitia Russell are the only two boats in the RNLI fleet that I can see were fitted with such plates and the plates are generic fittings from the Anne Lettitia Russell kit, with slight modifictions to the shape of the bottom end and the surface which butts up to the grp cabin to make them fit the Field Marshall cabin..
These were drilled with a 0.8 mm drill bit, pins inserted and then corresponding holes drilled into the grp cabin sides.........fixed with cyano they'll be allowed to set wnd then the plates will be faired in with polyester filled and then sanded down tomorrow.
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Today , in modelling parlance, was a day I liken to the title of one of my favorite films "Bad Day at Black Rock"...........absolutely nothing went right. {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Started off by painting the insides of all the cockpits with Humbrol satin teak brown.......I keep a good stock in of that, as my trawlers all had the superstructures painted in that colour.....and it usually goes on nicely even by brushing..............err NO!!!!
I had two tins half full and thought I'd use those before opening another brand new tin...first mistake!.
Got through the first half tin on 3 cockpits and was painting the fourth when I ran out the first tin, so stirred up the second half tin and used that to finish the 3rd cockpit and the other three left.
The stooopid thing was that I didn't paint one whole set from one boat at a time, but painted the fore cabins of all three boats and then went on to the aft cabins. %% %% %%
Result was that the first tin dried matt and the second dried almost a gloss....and the one that I swapped tins halfway through dried a mixture of both..............as can be seen in the picture.........drat and dammit.
So just as I was finishing the painting of the last cockpit and before all had dried..they still all looked a satin finish at this time......my mobile rang and I picked it up with my hand that had been holding the cabins.....thus I got paint on the thing ( I am a messy painter sad to say)......and who was on the other end.......a courier from Southampton saying that they were picking the model, that I had built for Guernsey, up from my house at 10.00 hours tomorrow morning.....GAWD!!!....I hadn't even labled ther lifebelts yet, never mind packerd the b***** thing..........rushed in to the house with the carrying box to find that I couldn't get into it to pack the boat because my electric screw driver battery was flat, and didn't have time to unscrew the thing by hand.......................but then I also needed to shred a couple of Argos catalogues for packing.........then the damn shredder kept over heating and stopping after about.a hundred pages........it was slow going with a capital S........well I think I would if I had to shred 2000+ pages of glossy paper, lol.
Anyway, finally got the boat packed up, and then went back to modelling.
It was then that I found that the paint had dried like garbage>>:-( >:-o >:-o >:-o...so decided I couldn't lose much by carrying out an experiment with the "wooden" cladding on the outside of the cabins.
Starting with the smallest cabin first..the fore cabin for the H F Bailey, I decided that instead of cladding with simulated wood printed paper as on the old Anne Letitia Russell, I would use wood grain sticky backed plastic.
I put a piece through the shredder....fair enough..the planks came out perfect and the exact width I needed.........
they laid and stuck OK, but sadly there isn't the "stretch" in it like there is in wet glued paper and on the larger cabin top of the Mary Stanford, I had to peice around the fore port side front of the cabin with smaller pieces......and it just don't look right........so back to paper strips and that cladding will have to come off!!!.
so all in all.................a very wasted few hours in time, but not in knowledge.........I won't mix tins of paint again, nor will I use stick on vynil for my planking.......suppose a result, really. O0
neil
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Hey Neil
I think you did get a mention in that film ..........
Hector David: Real cool guy.
Reno Smith: Doesn't p(br)ush easy, huh?
Hector David: Well, that's it. That's just it. He p(br)ushes 'too' easy.
{-) the devil made me do it {-)
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you must have a photographic memory matey..........I couldn't remember that, lol {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Nah - I just never go out Neil :embarrassed:
and it's one of my favourite films anyway.
I did have to look up the names though.
Sorry you had a Bad Day At Fleetwood
Dave
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Hi, Neil.
I think in the photograph you put up of the Mary Stanford earlier the fore shelter was planked almost the same way as the shelters on the Anne Letitia Russell, ie. angled out from a king plank rather than going all the way across like the aft shelter.
Also, only the top was planked. The sides were vertical, and look to be single piece of timber going fore and aft. {:-{
I think this was the same arrangement on all three boats, the fore cabin planked from the centreline and the aft all the way across.
Andrew
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No, andrew....HF Bailey is definitely planked cross ways, the Field Marshal. as you say is as ALR, but yipppeee......as you say the Mary Stanford is similar to the Anne Letita Russell, but with the planks running in a "V" backwards rather than forwards with the sides of one piece ( it looks like)..................so many thanks for that I owe you one.........makes it a whole lot easier.
below a shot of H F Bailey.
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the aft all the way across.
Andrew
you're right about the aft cabins though, and these are a doddle because there is a ridge running down each cabin which demarkates the top from the sides, although the sides on the aft cabins are planked, and not sheets, judging by the photos available.
cheers for that matey.......most helpfull.
neil.
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No problem. Always happy to help :-))
Andrew
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Thanks to the mods team and especially Martin and the guys.....in the immortal words of Jack Nicholson.........I'M BAA-AAACCCKKKK
Mind you I fancied calling myself Mary Staford just to confuse, {-) {-) {-)
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so! back to the build, and a little catch up, lol.
well, I wasn't happy with the cladding I put on the other day and stripped it all off.......that and the fact that Andrew, quite rightly pointed out that I had clad the cabin of Mary Stanford wrongly...........
Anyway..........I set about cutting and gluing on to the aft edges of the open cockpits, the cladding strips in 1.8 mm ply today.......now, that seamed to go a lot better than yesterday, and the cr***y painting is now just a long past minor irritation.
I also made the raised cockpit surround for the fore cockpit of the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts to take the fold down windshield to protect the helmsman/coxs'n.
Finally I fitted the funnels to the H F Bailey and FieldMarshal boats....I marked them out, drilled the perimeter of the hole to be cut out, and then reamed out with the side of the drill bit, before sanding smooth to take the funnel. Note the only funnel to have a capping of the three boats is the Field Marshal....this was made as a master from milliput and then moulded. in polyurethane resin from a rubber mould.
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Funnel fitting
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It's the little things that take the time to make and adorn the model with......
today I cut and glued extra cappingsa on to the cabins, sanding them down when set.........also made two sets of locker doors for the fore bulkheads of the H F Bailey and Mary Stanford front well decks.
Those I made from plasticard and brass handles.
I'll post more of the catch up later.
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Now getting closer to the point where I will be cladding the cockpits with their Paper simulated wooden planking.
Have today put on to the cabins the knuckes where the tops meet the sides...these were made from 2.. card and glued with cyano.
They will then be painted and the planks lain upto them for a clean finish.
On the actual lifeboats these knuckles were actual strips of timber to cover the joints and stopping water inpregnating them and causing springing of the planks.
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been doing a little work on fittings .............cutting the vent cowl shafts to length, trimming the companionway for HF Bailey, and a few more odds and ends.even painted the trimlines on the cabin sides ready for cladding..it all gets to one conclusion in the end.
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I was at a bit of a crossroads in the builds the other day, and couldn't really concentrate too hard on the next full on part of the build......the cladding of the cockpits with printed paper planks................ or something else.................I had already repainted the insides of the cockpits with a single pot of Humbrol, making sure that they would all come out one shade of teakbrown colour, so I sat and fiddled a bit whilst I was watching a none decript first formula 1 gp of the season............wish I hadn't now as there were more highlights left out by BBC than actually in the high lights prog..........reminds me of a time back in Canberra Australia when I was watching the "highlights" of an FA cup final match from the UK...watched it avidly for about an hour with a total lack of goals in the game....when at the finish and the chaps came on to talk about the game.......the talked about a goal packed match where one team beat the other 2 : 1......the dingbats at the ozzy TV company had edited out the 3 b**** goals, lol...........anyway back to the lifeboats.
I diddled and doodled today and fitted the fore cabin mast tabernacle with locating pins so it won't slide down the face of the cockpit whilst setting later.
the shot with the cabin and the two squares and steel rule was my method of finding centre on a curved cabin top............
I also cut the timbers for the mast bases that fit and swivel in the tabernackles, and the timbers for the large "samson" posts scattered around the decks of the lifeboats whilst trimming and sanding the base sleaves for the posts.
Finally I made up the water and oil tanks for the boats.....the oil pumps were put to brackets and fittings added to the oil tanks.
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set too to make the three main masts yesterday...........burned them down on my laithe using course 40 grade grit paper and then smoothing off with 120 grade......then I drilled the ends of both the mast and the "weighted" balance block which makes up the end of the mast, inserted a brass pin and glued the two pieces of each mast together using epoxy adhesive.
I also cut the samson posts to length and shaped them to profile and fit into the square deck brackerts shown in a previous post.
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20 hours spread over the past two days has seen me clad the 6 cockpits in "timber".
I tried earlier with stick on wood grain vynil, but as most of the cabins have curves within curves (best way of describing them) the vynil would not stretch and curve to follow the pattern of the cockpits and so I reverted to the easier method of using glued printed paper, as with the old Anne letita Russell boat...............the paper will "stretch" when wet with glue and is much easier to apply and cover the complex shapes of the cabins.
Also all but two of the cabins are sectional in that they have trimming strips and the planking is in specific sections and easier to lay.
On only two of the cockpits..the fore cockpits of the Mary Stanford and the Field Marshal and Mrs Smuts, are the two halves of the cockpit ( port and starboard sides) laid around a "king" plank whilst on all the other cockpits the planks ate laid across the top and then down the sides of the cockpits, which makes it much easier to lay.
Unlike the old ALR kit where I advocated the cutting of the planks with steel rule and craft knife.......which was a real laborious and very time and craft knife blade consuming project ( there is nothing on this earth that blunts a sharp knife blade quicker than cutting paper.........honestly). I have found a new and certainly much quicker way of cutting my paper planks accurately in a fraction of the time..................whilst packing up cushioning backs to transport my Flying Christine model to Guernsey the other day I hit on the idea..............and today I cut about 100 planks in just 60 seconds...............I fed my printed wood grain paper through my shredder........brilliant....and if I say so myself............a bl**** stroke of genious, lol.........
so below are a few shots of the process of planking the cockpits and some of the finished cabin tops...........just need to varnish them now with Ronseal water based outdoor clear varnish..............BEWARE if anyone intendes to plank their boats in a similar method........the printed paper WILL NOT withstand the onslaught of pre sealing with cellulose dope..........It has been tried and the cellulose laquer brings off the printing ink of the paper land leaves it all smeered and colourless..........from experience
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you are certainly making it look easy Neil! A great idea shredding the paper,I cant do that though,as I have a cross cut shredder! The "king"plank seems to be simple doing it that way too. I used coffee stirring sticks,and ice lolly sticks ,which were steamed and glued to do my Liverpool cabin with,and lots of coats of Marine varnish.
Mick
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the whole idea of designing a kit, Mick is to make it as easy as possible for the buyer/builder to construct.
When I first made the Anne Letitia Russell prototype, I started and tried "planking" the cabin cuddies with real timber..firstly with 1/64th ply and then very thin veneers of timbers.....both were ripped off after very poor quality finish...spent hours and hours on that part alone, in the end opting for the printed paper method.
Many modelers have, since the kit was released in 1995,tried and failed trying to plank their cabins with timber, and only a few have succeeded................those that want to take the time and say at the end of the process....i have done it as the real boat should be..........well..........erh yes to a point............but the real boats never had GRP cuddies under their wooden cabins anyway.......so purity is.............just in the eye of the builder,.............. and if paper planking makes the job easier for the majority of the kit builders then I have done my job, and using a shredder to produce those planks is even better still.
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It can be done - the problem is that the plank edges aren't parallel, as you're skinning a convex surface. It took a bit longer than you've done it in Neil.
This was a pack of veneer I picked up at a car boot sale, years ago - I've no idea what the wood is. Some is stained and some not, with about 9 coats of varnish over it.
Lance
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GXD6Xpko4G4/T2skTHDEJKI/AAAAAAAAAn0/vL2yn13H2Y8/s640/DSCF1051.JPG)
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Oh I know it can be done, Lance.................but you have to have a lot of patience, good knowledge of timbercraft and plenty of time, and I must admit........it does look pleasing to the eyes..........however the (and I'm not being patronising or condecending to anyone) but the idea of a kit is to make things easier for the modeller than throwing them in at the deep end.
As for the cladding............I varnished my cabins this morning with a first coat of Ronseal varnish..........it's opaque white in the tin but in 20 minutes dries to a rock hard clear ( no yellowing) finish.you can get it in gloss, satin or matt finish .
And that finish is just after one coat of the stuff......has comeup quite nicely...................It also sets rock hard and really stiffens up the paper cladding..
neil.
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What can one say bl---y brilliant, thats what. Neil the next best thing to having the forum back up & running is checking out your builds. You don't give yourself enough credit my dear friend. The amount of work output & skill you have shown here is mind boggling & that is all I can say, it has been a pleasure all the way. I should let you know too that my Tamar is sitting in Memphis at the FedEx distribution point & with luck should be here in a day or two & all the bits that will make it go whiz/bang are with it inside the box from ACTion, yes it is from MS. I could not wait any longer on the other source, it may also come yet, if it does I will still take it . Mick B.
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you'll enjoy the build, Mick......the MS boat is a good kit......and looks beaut on the water..................glad to see you back on the forum matey.....just off out to the shed now for another coat of varnish, lol
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first picture for today....
This is the finish on the paper strip planks that have cladded the six cockpits of the three boats.
It says on the can that after two/three coats to rub down with fine sandpaper and give another coat, but don't think I'll bother.....it's shiney enough.
This, by the way, is H F Bailey's aft cockpit.......and I believe from records that the RNLI hold was the ONLY lifeboat during wartime service to have the words LIFE-BOAT painted on her cockpit to try avoiding being straffed again by German bombers/fighters during WW2.........looks quite the part.
Apparently Henry Blogg took it upon himself,to have the words painted on her after being straffed twice by enemy aircraft.......
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Now here's a puzzler for the classic lifeboat buffs.........and I don't know the answer, that's why I'm putting it out.
It concerns the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts, and it concerns the black pipe with some odd thing stuck on the top of it, to the starboard side of the main foreward positioned mast, and can be seen just to the left of the fourth man from the left on the bow.......it's the bit that's bracketed to the mast...............What is it, what does it do and what was it made from...........it is only to be seen as far as I can see on the Field Marshal and the sister lifeboat Henry Blogg/Millie Walton.
I contacted the old ( and he is old now) second coxs'n of the Field Marshall, and he can't remember it even being there.
Today I mocked something up in brass tube to the shape shown on the plan, which seams to disappear into the top of the cockpit when the mast is folded down, and when the mast is in the upright position it seams to point into mid space instead of sliding under the cockpit, even though the mast is pivoted correctly............so the only conclusion that I can make is that it was some sort of black rubber hose pipe..........but what is on the top of it and what was it's purpose.....and more to the point where does it go to inside the cabin when the mast is upright..............I am stumped by this one.............and it gives absolutely no clue on the plans.
I thought at first that it was a Morse signalling lamp from what it shows on the plans......but the end shown on the plans has no correlation to that in the picture...........so one scrap piece of bent brass tube.
neil.
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Hi Neil,
No idea, its also visible in the following picture of the cromer lifeboat http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/showfull.php?photo=139997 though i am sure you already know this picture
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cheers Ian.......... a puzzling one is that.
neil.
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Furball and I have had a think, and we've got nowhere. At a wild guess it could just be wire trunking, like on the boats with exhaust masts, but then dad pointed out it's a little large. But there is a wire coming out of the top in at least one photo, so it's always a possibility.
We had a look at Nick Leach's book on Cromer and the photographs of Millie Walton/Henry Blogg, and we noticed that it only appears in her service at Cromer. There are photographs of her in Gorleston after a refit in '65 without it, and others of her on relief with it still missing, so it couldn't have been essential.
We'll ask around up at Chatham next time we're there, see if our collective knowledge can come up with anything. {:-{
Andrew
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cheers Andrew......that shot of the boat above is actually of the Henry Blogg, and the plans I have are for the field marshall.......so both boats originally ha it, but the old second cox of feild Marshall cannot remember it, althopugh he can remember the colour of the engine casing....Bottle green, later changed to silver grey..........so as you say, it might have been removed, and as I'm not building her as any period, unless I can find whaT IT WAS, MAY LEAVE IT OFF.............I can't find my cromer book at the mo so can't see what it looks like without it.....so, will do a little more research and then decide.
cheers, neil.
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decided to make that trunking with black silicon tubing.......will look for some this week.
Now down to today's progress..........
just a few small jobs the last couple of days...kept getting interupted for one thing or another....you know what wives and kids are like, lol
varnished the masts, got the Samson posts sealed with their top cappings on and began making the back rests for the helmsmen.
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Forgot to say about the masts.......they were made in two halves.....the mast itself was spun on the laithe as previously shown, and then the trunk of it which fixes into the tabernacle was cut from Obeche' to the same "square section" timber as the outside diameter of the dowel used for the mast. the two pieces were drilled with a 3mm hole centrally and then a 2.8mm pin was glued into them and the whole thing joined up using 2 part epoxy (the excess glue can be then cut off when dry and the area of overlay on the glue will not be affected when sanding smooth and will take varnish without leaving a whitish area.)
Once set and hardened the mast can be reverse inserted into the laithe and the edge of the trunk adjoining the mast can be faired into the mast using abrasive paper.
I used water based wood stain to "mahoganyise" the masts (and although they were NOT made from mahogany on the actual lifeboats) the three that I am building seam to have that hue of colour about them...........and it looks quite nice to see some stained timber around.............my choice, my preference, and my modellers licence, lol
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it's the little things that now take the time........been working on the sprung hatches the last couple of days inbetween looking after my two young daughters who both have ear infections.......so not much done.............but each little bit that gets put on to the boats gives them that bit more character............it'll get to the point soon when I'll need to paint them alland then stick 'em down........
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I hate to point it out at such a late stage, but I think the windscreen frame on the H. F. Bailey is wrong. The photographs I have show it in two stages:
When she went into reserve, part of the rear canopy was filled in and she was given a single piece windscreen, which she still has today (the outline of the original cut-out in the canopy is still visible)
But when she was built she had a three piece screen, but the frame for this I think was flush to the edge of the canopy and covered the complete rear edge.
I'll try posting up a couple of photos when I get the chance tomorrow to show you what I mean.
Andrew
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Hi Andrew, Now according to the plans, and a little tell tale strip of timber on the aft cockpit top to verify the early position, the shape was as I have done it.........however, it did have two different heights to it, and the height I should have done it too, for war time guise is about twice as high as I have actually done......which I'll rectify by adding a section later....see the photo of the cabin strip.
cheers for the input though.
neil.
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However.....I hold my hand up here and now...........I have just noticed the biggest c***up so far on the model...........looking at the planking on the cabin top.............I have planked mine in the wrong diagonal direction.................ceste' la vie'..............I ain't going to change it now...........achieved the best varnished finish in years.........I'll only muck it up if I try doing anything now.............so, how the mighty fall, lol %% %% %%
really though...these builders of the old classics should have got their act together all those years ago..the fore cabin is planked in one diagonal direction and the rear cabin is planked in the other direction.......most confusing to us modellers........very inconsiderate of them, {-) {-) {-) {-)
Mind you, only me and you lot know of my mistake, plus any anorak and rivet counter that comes along............stuffs up my chance of a gold at the Engineering exhibition in January though!, {-) {-) {-) {-)
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stuffs up my chance of a gold at the Engineering exhibition in January though
Why?... I suspect you know more about them than any of the judges.... ok2
(for info, when we refurbished the canopy on BASP - which is the wrong one anyway - we replanked over the outside with 3mm mahogany, and this planking is at 90 degress to the original. Nobody knows except us!)
Lance
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-)glad I'm not the only one, lol.
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Today was spent making the water tight hatch doors from 3 layers of varying thicknesses of plasticard, white metal and/or resin fittings both new and generic to Anne Letitia Russell, brass rod and a fabric paint aplicater for the rivet heads.
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This was the photo I was talking about
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t492/heritorasphodel/hfbailey1.jpg)
Cheers,
Andrew
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That's the one Andrew, but the frame comes well forward to the lines of that little piece of strip timber that shows on the H F Bailey as it is today at cromer......it's level with the aft stanchion of the hand rail at it's foremost point, as it shows on the plans.
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Having read what you mean again, I now understand what you are getting at....in that the canopy top in fact took the line of the wind sheild.............not according to the plans or the cross sections that I have.......the canopy followed the line that I built it to, andrew.
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Neil,
Earlier in this post, I fear I may have made a disparaging remark about the state of your workshop. Having seen what a brilliant job you are making of these boats, can I take it back please?
humbly, Chris
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Neil,
Earlier in this post, I fear I may have made a disparaging remark about the state of your workshop. Having seen what a brilliant job you are making of these boats, can I take it back please?
humbly, Chris
when was that chris??........I astound myself at times that I can even move in the place.........it's a junk shop most of the time and no offense was taken I can assure you.........in fact rather enjoyed the banter..especially from that man Mr Bishop likening it to some tomb or other that I cant spell the name of, in Egypt.........I feel honoured.....maybe in a few hundred years when some poor sob opens it up to the world.they'll find me mummified bent over a bench with a knife and plasticard in my hand........what a way to go, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Dont forget to wear a new pair of marigolds,to confuse the mummy finders!
Seriously,though my friend,what a superb job you are doing,...and no one can argue with that!
Mick
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and no one can argue with that!
Mick
I don't need anyone to argue with me, Mick.....I argue with myself most the time..... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Well, got back from my hols today, and thoroughly enjoyed them, but came across one sad site on thursday...........
Came across this sad looking ex RNLI Arun lifeboat Sir Max Aitken, 52 - 17 in Ramsgate harbour on Thursday, 5/04/2012 looking very forlorn, and with blown Caterpiller engines................and up for sale for offers.............
Sad thing is, that the owner dumped her on the end of the breakwater, so one of the harbour officials told me, and there she lay for nearly 5 months until they moved her to her present berth in the inner harbour where she languishes, with mounting unpaid harbour dues and no engines to move her...........she will be/is up for sale on offers apparently but no one can find her owner..........so what will become of her in those situations is anyones guess........what a crying shame!!!
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and here just to round them up are the Dungeness, Hastings and Ramsgate Mersey's and Trent respectively plus a couple of pulling and sailing models........sadly the model I really wanted to photograph........the "Rankin"...the 51' Stromness Barnett class lifeboat had been moved from the Eastbourne RNLI Museum to Poole's heritage collection for later re siting....... {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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Sad indeed...
Whipround?
Dan
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A few days before I went away I decided to give the Mary Stanford and the H F Bailey a coat of paint on the engine casings and fore cabins.
Because I had painted the "wood effect" cabins with a varnish I decided not to spray an undercoat using cellulose, so decided to give two coats with Humbrol acrylic No. 127, and brush paint on with my new expensive ( and I mean expensive) camel hair brushes................what a b***** mess.........the acrylic paint ( i used it because I couldn't find the corresponding number in enamel humbrol locally) and which I have never used before went on smeery, it grabbed on the "last" brush full, and plucked off the paint of the last stroke, and left such an uneven coat that I decided to wait till holiday time and try locating some enamel "down south".
But it niggled me to leave such an uneven mess on my model so decided to wet and dry it smooth................even using 800 grade wet and dry, with fairy liquid in the warm water, it just plucked at the paint, and in the end took off more, in patches than what was left on the casings.............so just to satisfy myself that I wouldn't come back to a mess and think about it all whilst on holls, I took it all off except for minor areas which I'll do before repainting with brush enamels that I obtained from a hobby and toy shop in Rochester, Kent.
So in the next day or so will finall take off all remaining acrylic and repaint with the stuff I'm used to.
They say these things are sent to try us, and that we learn by our mistakes...............I do!!.......will never use acrylics again.......don't like it, full stop!!
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I decided to give repainting a miss for a little while whilst I pluck up courage to do it again......so decided to add the scupper freeing ports inside the well decks of the Mary Stanford.
I am using port holes with two bars from the Metcalf Mouldings Rother class lifeboat for these as they are very similar to the valve covers, and saves making new covers, then moulding and then casting them...call it modellers licence.
first I needed to get hold of an 18mm forstner bit to cut the recessed round holes ( not cut all the way through the timber deck, but I needed them to sit flush to the deck floor.
The port holes were two thick in profile so needed to sand off the basic thickness from under......and I needed something to hold them with whilst sanding on my disc sander, ( as sanding by hand would have taken an eternity.)
Some years ago I picked up a wire stripper in the middle of the road, but it had broken "teath" and wouldn't work as a wire stripper......but I knew, (even all those years ago, and it must have been 15 years ago that I found it) than one day it would come in usefull for something.......today it did......I sanded and modified the teath and hey presto......great for holding portholes with reinforcing bars whilst sanding.
Next job was to set the forstner bit to cut no lower than I needed, and so masked off most of the bit with a masking tape stopper to allow the port holes to sit just flush with the deck........then it was down to marking off the positions in both fore and aft well decks and drill.
The results are shown below.
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the centre holes of the forstner bit drilled recess will be filled with a little silicon rubber filler and the scupper plates will be set into black silicon rubber sealant.
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Nice simple depth gauge on the 'spade' bit, was wondering what a forstner was. :-)) :-))
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It's amazing how many uses other than masking, masking tape has, O0 O0
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They're looking great Neil, sorry not been able to keep up to date properly with what's going on with just my smart phone (contradiction in terms there!). Got a new laptop now so am slowly catching up with what's been going on. I'll have my new workshop set up soon so will be back building hopefully.
Dave. :-)) :-))
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looking good Neil, certainly watching with great intrest
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thanks guys, and sorry for having to give the bad news Dave.
I am requesting on here as well as on Wants adds............does anyone have about 8" of BLACK 6mm o/d silicon tubing they could sell me please for the odd thing up the fore mast of the Field marshall and Mrs Smuts............been all over the place the last few days for some but no success.........I have tried painting some clear which I have plenty of inside and out but it just won't take and flakes off as soon as it's bent...................and ebay adds are for meters at a time.........all I need is one little piece 8" long......many thanks for any help.
neil.
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What about using some electrical wire?
Bend it to shape first and then paint, assuming it isnt black already?
Dan
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I have tried that dan but it is too stiff to go back into the hooped shape when the mast is folded down, and kinks..........I think it would break off the fitting that it fits through as it retracts into the cabin. {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
neil.
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I seam to be doing a lot of flitting around from one part of the build to another at the moment and not simply getting down to one particular task in particular, and it all seams a little hotch potch........I have more fittings littering my benches than I can shake a stick at......but they have all been cleaned up, the parts are being dry fitted before painting and once the final parts of the jigsaw have been made, they hopefully in one mamoth painting and gluing session will manifest themselves into three models in one final finished amalgamation.
So today ( well last night to be more accurate) I mixed a couple of packs of Milliput together and made the three fenders which will be moulded.
There is one bow fender for the Mary Stanford and a bow and stern fender for the two Watson class boats.
The blanks were made and moulded to fit into the support brackets and then left to go hard. Today, they were sanded and then templates in card were made for the knitted covers for the fenders.
my good lady wife, who is a champion knitter and can knit virtually any garment from anything, now has the unenvious tast of knitting the three fender covers from the thread I have supplied iin stocking stitch on 2mm steel pins.........not for the faint hearted.
Once they have been knitted, they'll be fitted, bandings put onto the fenders as with the real things, and then they will be moulded in rubber, so that on these boats, the task of knitting fender covers is no longer needed, as they will be shown on the mouldings.
the start of the fenders shown below......the knitting is now in the hands of SWMBO who will knit the shapes of the fender covers to the cardboard patterns.
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The knitting is coming along well but not allowed photographs of the items until all three are done %% %% %%
However, spent today doing another job that needs attention before all things come together , and those were the bench seats for all the aft cabin well decks............I planned to use generic gratings from the Anne letitia Russell kit, edged with some rebated timber that I made years ago, but ran out with two boats so the third one ( the benches for the Mary Stanford) were made from the last pieces I have left of the timber grating that I and a mate produced , again, years ago.
The edges of the white metal gratings were sanded to produce a "V" shape that would fit into the grove of the rebated timber and all was glued with cyano.
next, the legs of the benches ( made from 2mm stainless steel rod ) were bent around a jig to make sure all legs were uniform, and cut to approximate length.....glued into more pieces of rebated timber and then four of them were glued onto the benches......they will eventually have white metal feet glued to them and set into the sides of the cockpits, after some more detailing is done to the insides of the well decks..
the legs were glued to the timber gratings with aliphatic resin, but those being glued to the white metal gratings will be fixed in place using cyano
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Been putting the bench seats together today, and needed all the legs to be cut the same length...........................devised a very easy way of doing it without intricate measureing of each leg.........I cut a little length of black tubing to slip over the leg and to the desired length of the leg minus 2mm to take into acount the jaws of the wire snips I was going to use...just slipped the tube over and cut to the end of the tube, through the length of the wire protruding...gave me perfect length every time.
I then glued the legs to the grating using the prefered glue, and then placed the feet onto a sheet of clear waste plastic and glued the legs into them using cyano.
Also whilst waiting for these to set, (and sadly I ran out of white metal feet so have had to order some more from Dave at Metcalf Mouldings) I made up the six boat hooks from the white metal ends from the generic fittings box and 3mm dowel rod and left these to set before sanding, sealing and then painting the shafts either white or blue for the starboard and port sides respectively on the three boats. This painting of the white and blue for the two sides of the boat went back to the olden days when the motive power of lifeboats was either single or double banked ( one or two oarsmen per oar) oars and the Starboard side oars were painted white, and the Port (or Larboard) side oars were painted in blue. The tradition still shows on even the most modern of boats where the boat hook shafts are painted in those distinct colours
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Neil,
Good tip about cutting legs to length. :-)) :-))
Not knowing anything about Lifeboats, the legs 'look flimsy' in proportion to the bench seat etc.
Is this one of those beholders quirks.
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they are matey.especially for something that took such a pounding.see here the real thing....this is off the H F bailey.
neil.
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Thanks Neil,
They do look "light" but obviously stand up to the loads.
Just goes to show you have to do the Maths. :-)) :-))
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Today Been doing a little more digressing and flitting from one area to another yet again today.......firstly I set up the "dummy" steering rod linkeage from the steering wheel in the aft cockpit of the Mary Stanford to the steering block on the aft sternpost.
The Mary Stanford is the only boat of the trio to have this external rod linkeage to the steering.........the other two boats have internal universal couplings to steer the rudder with and so none of this is needed or shown.
The second area of work was to the exhaust systems linked to the funnels of the boats.
The centrally steered boat...the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts had extended pipes, (made of flexible tubing so that the boat would fit into the boathouse without having to chop the funnel down, whereas the H F Bailey had chopped down funnel and ( as shown in one pic that I have seen) also the extended pipes ....the pipes were to take the exhaust fumes over the heads of the crewmen in the aft cabins. The funnel of the Mary Stanford will have just the stubbs of the pipes extruding from the base fixings which go into the top plate of the funnel.
The base fittings were resin fittings made for the Clyde class lifeboat I built last year, and although as built they were bases for High tension Radio whip areals..........they were slightly modified to use as the bases for the exhaust tubes........modellers licence.
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just got back from watching Titanic 3D at the cinema..............chap next to me must have been really frightened.....kept f*****ng and making foul smells.............poor sod............ %% %% %% %% %% %%
anyway, before I went I got chance to do a few more fiddley bits.
First off was to make a more convincing hand cranked pump for pumping oil on troubled waters............this will be moulded when I get round to moulding the fenders, which are being soaked in cellulose sanding sealer at the mo before waxing up.
Second was to make the base and capstain for the "Smuts". The capstain was turned from brass and put into a mould some months ago (the brass master can be seen at the mo on the Mary Stanford)..the base was a modified piece from a moulding of the base for the cable stopper for the Mary Stanford.
And finally the capstain and base for the Mary Stanford.
The base is actually a bulge onto the outside of the engine casing of the M. S. and is made from Milliput moulded onto the side, from which I have taken a cast for reproduction of others in resin, and the capstain will be a moulding of the same capstain as used on the "Smuts"
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Oh yes, and finally got to the bottom of what the black piping is that runs up the foremast of the "Smuts".
Have been in touch withan ex crewman of the particular boat called Glyn and he has told me that the pipe is in fact electrical conduit feeding the mast lamps, as a member on here proposed earlier, and that it was finally changed for a glass electrical insulater later in it's life.
he also tells me that the aft cabin fore engine casing was also planked and varnished, which if the same as the Cromer boat, henry Blogg which I am checking at the mo, will have to be planked and varnished before I go any further.
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Couldn't find it before but this is the photo of the "Smuts" with the glass insulater rather than the black piping running up the mast....might be tempted to go this way rather than the piping.
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Grinding on inexorably towards the day when all that is left to do is paint and stick on all the myriad of fittings that have been made earlier.
Today, it was a case of building the waterbreak on the fore cabin of "Smuts". I made this in two parts from 1.8mm ply, using card templates first to get the curvature of the cabin before tracing round and cutting out in ply. The pieces were then pinned with brass wire before drilling into the cockpit and gluing with cyano. they will be painted in situ. The holes for the two portlights were also cut out at the same time (i'd forgotten about those two items.)
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over the last two days, in between swapping an internal rudder set up for an external rudder on Mick french's (Rottwieler) 47' Watson lifeboat I have been drilling holes for the "Ruffle holes" in the Keelson and rear deadwood of my three lifeboats.
Ruffle holes are put into all keels of the older (and some modern ) lifeboats, and are basically the anchoring points for slipway launched boats.
I say all older classic boats, with some exceptions ( not many) but as lifeboats were all supposed to be interchangeable for cover and researve fleets, they could possible all at some time in their life either end up on a slipway or on a carriage, and because of this, needed holes in the keels for rope, chain and shackles to pas through to hold them to either slipway or carriage..........and it was the ruffle holes in both bow and stern that are part of the makeup of the lifeboats hull.
Because of the build of the models, and the fact that at the bow, especially I needed to first pour some liquid polyester resin into the area to be drilled, or the hole through the keel would inevitably cut through space and allow an ingress of water, and pretty quickly at that, so a reservoir of resin was poured in and allowed to set.
The holes were marked, drilled and then a brass washer to cap the hole off was added and secured with cyano.
then it was a case of adding the water coolers, intakes outlets, filters and the scupper flaps to the two watsons......the Barnett doesn't have any scupper flaps visible on the outside of the boat. All these fittings are generic with other boats and so they were readily available from stock.
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Hi Neil, got to say I take my hat off to you, not only for your skills, knowledge and presentation of same including cock ups, not just because you can design and build THREE boats at a time and I sometimes struggle with one, not just because you can produce a silk purse in a sows ear environment - (oops :}) or that you must type like tango to keep up with the posts you manage to do, no - what I can't figure out is how you manage to squeeze more than 24 hours out of a day!
Are you just a workaholic, a robot or an insomniac? cuz boy have you got staying power!! O0 {-)
Great stuff Neil, keep 'em coming :-)) Tony.
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thanks for those very kind words Tony ( i'll ignore the one about my wonderfully tidy workshop {-) {-) {-))......it's just that for the past 6 - 7 years I have been building basically for other people and I haven't got a boat in the house (except the Flying christine ambulance boat that I built for my daughters) that I can call my own or sail............and these three are MINE........ and that's why I am enjoying building them so much....mine to play with, mine to sell for me if I desire, and mine to look at and think......at last I've built something that won't go to pay off bills or the mortgage or silly things like that.........it's not a driving force to get them done for anyone but me.........it may be selfish of me, but after years of building for others, I feel just that bit selfish, but am revelling in it, and totally enjoy the build...........and time just flows by when I'm in that scruffy old workshop..............but the big day of reckoning will come when finished.......
hve been ordered to tidy up............. %% %% %% %%
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Silly question...
Is there a specific reason you did the ruffle holes at this stage? I would have though it easier before the deck went on, so you can get the resin to the inside of the keel with no obstructions.
Cheers
Lance
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no Lance......just forgot earlier on, lol..........it's only when I have bits left over that I begin to think..........woooooppppssssss!!! %% %% %%
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Life's been a bit busy this week with one thing or another and have got little building done on my lifeboats....but what I have doen is ( with the help of my lovely wife) finished and moulded the fenders for my boats.
The Mary Stanford required just the one fender at the bow, because she has a rudder steering box at the stern, but the two Watsons, because of their rudders built into the deadwood of the stern keel, have exposed stern posts and as such have rear fenders to guard from accidental damage to the stern.
The majority of knitted/crochet'd fenders that I have seen for sail, (and this is in the eyes of my wife who is a professional knitter) have used pins(knitting needles) thaty are too large in diameter and use cord that is too thick to give a scale apperance.
When I built the Anne Lettitia Russel those many years ago my wife actually experimented for a few days with different size needles and different cords and thicknesses until with the help of photo's of the real fenders, we came to the conclusion that she would knit the fender covers in "reverse stocking stitch" using 2mm "pins" and a guage of thread that gave a cordage of approximately 0.8 - 1.0 mm diameter, and this gave the best results for a scale looking fender.
Any smaller pins and the thread wouldn't be possible to knit, and any thinner thread,, and the desired effect of the nobbled surface just wouldn't show.
So we stuck to it and have knitted the fenders to that pattern ever since, and were always knitted around a blank made from polyester resin.
However, and sadly that polyester is brittle and on one or two occassions on customer's boats, this has snapped when the boat hit the bank leaving the fender mis shaped.
So this time I was determined to improve on that, and decided to make the moulds (blanks) for the fenders from polyurethane resin that doesn't split or crack.
My first task was to mount the fender brackets on the two Watsons (as I had done it earlier to the Barnett) and then mould the bow and stern fenders for ONE Watson only, as both Watsons would use the same blank, being built on the same hull
I made the blanks from Milliput placing them in position on the boat set into the brackets, and when cured and hardened I then sanded them down to a nice even surface.
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I would now have put these blanks into a mould for re producing them in numbers for kits but had then come up with the notion that as my wife was busy with some jumpers for the family it would be unfair of her to knit more than was needed, so I decided to curtail the moulding of the blanks until the fender covers had been knitted and put onto the blanks, and then I could mould them as one, thus eleviating the need for wives and sweethearts to have to knit them for their men folk.
So the next stage was to make a pattern for each blank out of card so that my wife could knit the cover to thast size. And this is what I and she did.
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The next stage was for my good lady to stitch the fender covers onto the blanks.........and this my wife did, using thinner guage thread.
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And now came the detailing with other cordage....the lateral binding was put around all three fenders, and then the longitudinal binding was (as far as could be seen on the plans and some shots of the Watsons and Barnetts from books), put onto the Barnett only as of the period I was building each boat as preference.
Once these bindings had been added I added a little cyano at joints, tie offs etc to settle the cord.
Then I virtually soaked the fenderd with sanding sealer to harden the fenders up and to fill the under structure so that when moulding, ther rubber wouldn't seep deep into the knitting.
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Next was tofill the open weave of the knitting with a rerlease agent wax that I usially use for mould seperation in GRPO moulding, and that can be seen in the last of the previous set of photos.
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Now the fenders were ready for setting into moulds, and for this I used my usual plastecine and lego blocks for making a box before moulding them in two halves.
whilst I was doing the mould I found I had a little space to spare so filled it with the two hand pumps and the aft mast bracket.......no space wasted.........rubber's too expensive, lol
ooops, that one shows the set of binoculars..........I hadn't put the mast bracket in yet,
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After making the rubber moulds, it was time to cast a few in polyurethane resin............they came out far better and just as detailed as I had hoped, and will save a few hours of frustration and knitting for the unhappy wives, lol.
When it comes to fitting to the boats, they will just need a little trimming n the inside of the "V" to fit snuggly against the hull and then drilled for eye rings to tie to the brackets placed above and below the belting of the hulls of the boats, and painted in a humbrol mat tan paint before fitting to the boat............I thought that this would simplify the build somewhat.
And the choice is always there for the hardened enthusiast to still sand the fenders smooth and add their own knitted fenders should they so wish to.
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Been painting the well decks and cabins today with "lifeboatgrey" as I call it...........Humbrol 127..a satin light grey which I have used on my lifeboats since Anne Letitia Russell days...........needs a rub down and a second coat but will leave a couple of days before doing so.
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Believe me folks, they look even better in real life! Having had the pleasure of seeing all three this morning, I am even more impressed than I have been reading about the builds! Thanks Neil, for the coffee and the excellent alteration job you did for me. I enjoyed the fish and chips at Yorkshire Fisheries again also!
Mick
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good on yer mate.have a safe trip back to
Devon....................... oooopppsss!!!! {-) {-) {-)............. Cornwall tomorrow :-))
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Been brush painting the well decks and engine casings recently with Humbrol enamel and my nice new sable hair brushes......getting a reasonable finish, but running out of enamel rapidly.........so today decided to tidy up the lower edge of the engine casing of the Mary Stanford with a rivet strip.........did this in 120 gram paper and an artists paint stopper which blobs out rivet sized paint blobs in rapid succession.........this gets rid of the ragged moulded edge of the casing and cleans it all up nicely.
Next bit is to fit the rudder assembly onto the Mary Stanford.
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So, down to the making of the rudder and assembly for the Mary Stanford.....
Unlike the other two boats that have their rudders set into the deadwood of the Keel, this boat had the rudder hung onto a square section rudder bar which runs through a series of brackets on the stern of the boat, including a hefty bracket at the top, a "shoe" at the bottom and a mid spaced bracket to set the rudder at it's required possition on the rudder bar..
These brackets would be made from cast iron/steel on the real boats, and/or even bronze, but on the model the fittings are all made from cast white metal.
There are also two brackets attached to the rudder which have square shaped holes cast into them on a fore/aft axis so that two points/corners of the square run longitudinally with the boat, and the rudder bar is therefore set at this same "diamond" position......and as such the brackets on the rudder have no chance of slipping around the rudder bar because of the square shape!....quite a simple idea by the builders of these old boats, and also easy to replicate needing no screws, bolts or pins to hold the rudder from slipping.
I made the rudder as a seperate entity, and fitted the two white metal cast brackets and the strengtheners in 1.8mm ply and glued in place using epoxy for the w/m fittings and aliphatic resin for timber to timber. However before fitting the brakets I made sure that the square section bar slipped through the bracket holes freely and when O glued up I ran the bar through both brackets to make sure that they were glued in line and the bar freely able to move.
I started by fitting the top bracket ( the bottom shoe had already been fitted when doing the hull some months ago.
It was glued in place using epoxy and two steel pins to hold and secure it in place.
I then silver soldered a length of 5mm threded rod into one end of the square section bar, to take a top locking nut.
I next threaded a nut upto the joint between bar and threaded rod and locked in place using cyano.
I glued the slider bar which takes the pin from the servo to operate the rudder into place upto the top locking nut, using epoxy and then drilled through that asembly and inserted a 2mm nut and bolt to hold it all in place.Under this would be fitted a brass washer to aid movement and reduce friction.
I modified the bracket that is used on the Rother class lifeboat kit, and using a pin to hold it......fixed it to the stern post just below where to top bracket of the rudder will sit when the rudder is in it's correct position.
Next was to insert a brass rod up into the bottom of the square section rudder bar and secure it wit lots of cyano.
Now, ther is still no way to stop the whole rudder bar from lifting out of the shoe and flapping in the wind, so to make a tighter fit and impossible to lift upwards and out, I put two small diameter washers onto the bottom pin just before the square bare /round bar joint, and immediately under the top bracket I placed two brass washers onto the square rudder bar, and drilled imediately under them with a 1.0mm drill bit and inserted a split pin made from brass, wrapped it around the bar immediately under the washers, and this locked the whole assembly in place with a maximum of around 2mm up and down movement........Once it has all been painted the moving parts, metal to metal will be greased as a precaution.
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Thats looking familiar Neil! I am waiting for the next instalment to show me what to do to mine,so keep posting please,my friend ?!
Mick
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Oh yes, and finally got to the bottom of what the black piping is that runs up the foremast of the "Smuts".
Hi Neil
Glad you got that sorted - I spent some time looking for a better view of it - failed miserably - enjoyed searching though. O0
Dave
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All I can really say is that it just gets better & better, you can teach me & build my boats any time. I am building the Model Slipway Tamar right now how would you like to take a months holiday & help out, room & board free, LOL. I have been watching, its just that I have not been posting very much.Thanks again Neil, Mick B.
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All I can really say is that it just gets better & better, you can teach me & build my boats any time. I am building the Model Slipway Tamar right now how would you like to take a months holiday & help out, room & board free, LOL. I have been watching, its just that I have not been posting very much.Thanks again Neil, Mick B.
I'd lover to Mick, but my daughter would never let me go...she gets painc attacks if I want to go to Loch Ness for a weekend, lol.......by the way, nice to hear from you again.......had thought you were off on a long cruise or something by your abscense, lol.
Yes Dave.......I contacted Beaumarris Lifeboat stationand spoke to the son of the coxs'n who had served on her...he also was a crewman on the Smuts, and he has been very helpfull indead, both with his super knowledge of the boat, and with photos...........we really are blessed as modellers when people like Glyn can put themselves out for people that they have never met.....I am always very appreciative of such kind hearted people.
and Mick F..........yes, any time old mate........will see you next at Blackpool.
neil.
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The fun's about to start.............cost me a small fortune at Halfords this morning.
That's the trouble with building three boats at the same time, lol
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Certainly a good collection there Neil.
As you know,I am trying to convert the 47 foot Watson I have, which was built as the "Margaret" ON 947, somewhat wrongly with an integral rudder, into a 46.9inch Watson, "The Guy and Clare Hunter" ON 926. You will know, having replaced the rudder with the correct type for me, that the original paintwork was inevitably damaged, so I will have to do a respray. Which type and colour of paint would you suggest please?
OK for all the purists, I know there IS a difference between the two Lifeboats, but I am going for "modellers Licence", and will get around it, mainly the different type of rudder.
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I would, as suggested to me this morning, use Ford Galaxy Blue for this boat which is a later boat......mine are a lighter blue and for those I'm using Ford Royal Blue, and I'm not sure twhen the change came, but Ford Galaxy blue is the concensus for more modern lifeboats .
neil
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Hello Neil please excuse me for butting in, but a message for Mick (Irishcarguy) - I've an M.S. Tamar to build too - but I can't find your log? {-) {-) {-)
Thanks neil butting out now. ;)
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that's alright Tony....no probs.......I don't think Mick ( Irishguy) had made a build blog thread......that's why you can't find it.
neil.
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Mick's too busy whittling brass to post a build log - he's bought that much the world price has risen.
Dave
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Hi Dave don't you think Neil is quite brilliant, even more so when he gets some of that paint on himself. Neil thats a poor excuse for not helping out an old friend, A bit of news I might be in line for a 11/2scale Tamar very soon, now to find the loot, I just spent 700 pounds plus on the MS Tamar never thinking the other would come through, will give you a call on the weekend, you too Dave. Mick B.
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what you want two for? at different scales as well..........would have thought you would be going for a Slipway Trent or a 1:16 Severn from Speedline to make up the trio at the same scale........
anyway, you don't get off the hook this easily...where's your build log of the MS Tamar ......can't get away from that one matey......... O0 O0 O0
neil.
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Neil it is 2pm & I can't think of a smart assed answer so I am going to bed, good night all, Mick B.
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Neil it is 2pm [...] so I am going to bed
:o Oh my! You really do take your afternoon naps too seriously Mick
Dave
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he's so whacked making that Tamar he doesn't know night from day %% %% %% %% %%
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So I've to go it alone then Mick? i.e. no build log from you then. <:( <:( .............. {-) {-) {-)
£700! - what gear have you fitted then Mick?
Regards, Tony. :-))
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Hi Neil I am whacked, it was actually 2 am, I just got up & had some coffee & toast, 9.30am. I hate to let the Tamar slip by as I had a real hassle to get it in the first place. A note for Tony I will PM you on the kit I am fitting. Must get to work I need more money for my toys , Nick B.
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Hi Neil I am whacked, it was actually 2 am, I just got up & had some coffee & toast, 9.30am. I hate to let the Tamar slip by as I had a real hassle to get it in the first place. A note for Tony I will PM you on the kit I am fitting. Must get to work I need more money for my toys , Nick B.
You must be whacked matey........you've signed your name as Nick.........or is that the Irish coming out in you, {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Neil, could you post a picture of your "artists paint stopper " please ? I have googled it and it returns some weird and wonderful things but nothing that I think you mean ? Ta mate!
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I suppose it was a funny clumsy way of calling a fabric paint, a paint stopper.....so here it is......it is a liquid paint for specifically painting on t shirts...no brushes used, just the very small nozzle.
neil
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Thanks for giving us all another of your secret weapons! Never even heard of it,no wonder I couldnt find it. I thought you were like me Neil, of the old "TIE and DYE" era !
Mick F ( the Cornish one! we have a Canadian one, do we have an Irish one?)
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Hi Neil I can't believe I spelled my name wrong, I am putting it down to brass fumes. I still say it is brilliant building you are doing on here & the way you give us information is really very kind of you. I really don't want to pass up on the Speedline Tamar, I really saved in a secret slush fund for it for over a year. If I change my mind I will use the money to buy a milling machine. If any money is left over I will reinforce our bathtub as Dave is coming for a Holiday next year & he does weird things in tubs. LOL.Mick B.
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I will reinforce our bathtub
and while you are doing that will you succumb to your urge to remodel it as a Tamar? (Tamar III) ;D
Dave
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I will reinforce our bathtub as Dave is coming for a Holiday next year & he does weird things in tubs. LOL.Mick B.
I don't want to know that, {-) {-) {-) {-)....you can get in trouble for that sort of thing.......... {-) {-) {-) {-)
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It's a little frustrating that the further you get into a build or design, the smaller the part the less you think about it until it's needed and then when you do need it to set off another part, it's not there........it's not bad planning, so I like to think, just an over sight.
A week ago I found I had only 4 w/t hatch handles and so rang Dave for some.........he, on the other hand, only requires two for the Anne Letitia Russell, and so his moulds only spin one at a time........I needed 20.............so with my 4, and 4 he had left over I had to then produce a little mould to supply them 8 at a time....this I did yesterday, and this morning cast myself more than enough for the three boats........
also whilst looking at shots that a friend Glyn had sent me of the "Smuts" of when his father was coxs'n on the boat..........a glaring addition was needed that I had forgotten on all three boats......the support blocks for the Fisherman's pattern anchor which is clamped in stands to the side of the boat. So last night I made those from blocks of obeche and will tonight put the side plates onto them with plasticard.
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Well.........I tried putting the end plates onto the support blocks yesterday, and used as I said, plasticard for them, using plasticweld to attach the plasticard to the obeche timber................mistake............
It has worked for me in the past, but sadly it wasn't playing ball yesterday, as every one I tried to trim off, just parted with ease!.....
so I went back to basics and replaced the plasticard plates with 1.8mm ply and used aliphatic resin to bond the two together, and clamped them overnight.........success. they worked fine, and I trimmed them up using my bench sander.
they'll now be liberally coated with sanding sealer and then glued onto the respective boats ready for painting in situ.
so the moral of my story is, and I will repeat it 100 times......."I must try not to be to cleaver for my own good, and when using timber to plastic...don't...use timber to timber if possible and use a timber glue".
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I would hold off on fixing those anchor blocks if I were you...
The original anchor blocks fixed to almost every boat were blocks of timber with a brass sheath wrapped round it and then round the rubbing strake. Some boats, like H. F. Bailey, had one of those at the aft end of the anchor and a simple block fixed to the deck at the fore end.
However, none of the boats we've seen had end plates on the blocks. Photographs of H. F. Bailey and Henry Blogg don't have them, so I assume that F. M. A. M. S. wouldn't have had them.
Andrew
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sorry Matey...but you are wrong there on the "Smuts"....here she is, almost straight out the boat yard...with the side plates.And the blocks are no where near the position shown in the plans........so we even have inconguencies between build, builders and plans supplied.
Also, if you read into the history of both the Mary Stanford and the H F Bailey you will find that both boats suffered great damage over their lifetimes on the starboard sides..........and although you are right in saying that the H F Bailey doesn't have the plates now, she might have done as built.
Also I have one starboard side photo of the Mary Stanford which shows the shadow of the raised end plate........so, as I have said before, I'll use modellers License and presume that H F Bailey had the end plates when in her early years......i.e. that period that I am building her as.
There are many modellers that prefer to detail and modify their own boats to suit the boat that they are building at a particular in time, and the basic kit allows that.
I know from talking to the coxs'ns son of the "Smuts" and the photos that he has sent me, that there are 4 (yes four) configurations to the funnel, 3 configurations to the main mast, and he told me at first that there sere no vent cowl at the bow of the boat....but there are in most photos...............so it's impossible to make a kit that will please all persons.........you do the best you can at a period in time that you think is correct........and for these three boats, the end plates on the anchor chocks will stay...........if someone wants to model the H F Bailey as she is now.......a museum piece........then all they need to do is leave them off...............simple as that.However she also had the forward block shaped to fit the belting and not just "on deck" as you say.
Anyway.back to more important things........I suffered the worst bout of Kidney stones I have ever suffered yesterday.ended up at A & E in an ambulance on entenox, the pain was so severe...........so am going to take it easy for a few days...that means I've been banned from the workshop! <:( <:( <:( <:( {:-{ {:-{
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I suffered the worst bout of Kidney stones I have ever suffered yesterday.ended up at A & E in an ambulance on entenox, the pain was so severe
Hey Neil
I feel for you mate - I've bought the ticket and seen the beeping show -and morphine just toned it down a little. No way can it be understood by someone who hasn't had it. My workmates wife has had four kids (with various delivery methods) and she has had kidney stones too - she truly swears the kidney stones made having the kids seem like 5 minutes shelling peas. Get well soon.
Dave
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I've never had kids mate...although my belly would tell you I'm due to drop..........but boy , yesterday afternoon I was actually crying with the pain %% %% %%
feel 100% better today!.. cheers.
neil.
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feel 100% better today!
but completely drained eh? {-) {-) {-) ha, It's the way I tell 'em
Dave
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you will have to get the missus to knit you a willywarmer, Neil, It will at least keep your "stones" warm. lol
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Been there, done that, now called fenders in post 456 %)
Dave
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sorry Matey...but you are wrong there on the "Smuts"....here she is, almost straight out the boat yard...with the side plates.
Sorry again, but those are not end plates. Those are the ends of the light coloured block, some were tan and some were grey, with a painted brass sheath on the top. That was the standard fitting.
There are photographs in Nick Leach's book on Cromer of H. F. Bailey arriving on station, and the blocks are visible with no end plates. Also the forward block is not as it is now, but is not like the others either. I can't speak for Mary Stanford, because I have no photos of her, but I am 98% certain that all three had no end plates. I can't see why end plates would be needed, as they are only anchor rests.
Andrew
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well, I'm sorry Andrew but they are staying as the are.......if you buy a kit, you don't need put them on to your boat........simples.
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Mick, Dave.......you'll get in trouble thinking aloud like that!!! {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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This sounds like a pistols at dawn matter to me. Decide it properly! {-)
I decided to model the Hearts of Oak as it is now to avoid just these sorts of conversations.
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Been there, done that, now called fenders in post 456 %)
Dave
Fenders would be ok for a1/16 scale methinks
Ned
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Having thought about this, Andrew, and looked at all the photos I have available..................I shall bow to your comments and take notice of what you say, and will sand the protruding tops of the end plates off........it'll be easier for the modeller anyway.....cheers, neil. :-))
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Hi Neil now I know why you warned me of the rivet counters when I decided to build the MS Tamar kit, we get it too with the old vintage British cars, my pat answer is I don't know what year it is but I can sure fix it, like don't do that to the gearbox it did not leave the factory like that as if they were standing @ the factory door watching it leave, my fast answer is do you want it original or would you like it to work. I am sorry to hear about your kidney stones they are dreadful, I have had them 5 times, for some reason the Canadian Prairies have up to 10 times more kidney stone attacks than anywhere else on the planet & I am living proof. Nothing absolute nothing, relieves the pain, my mother in law said child birth was a breeze compared to them.Hope you are back @ the boats soon & thanks again for all the advice & help. Mick B.
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I am begining to think that Mick as a dirty mind, but still a lot cleaner than Daves. the other Mick from Canada.
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Hi Neil now I know why you warned me of the rivet counters when I decided to build the MS Tamar kit, we get it too with the old vintage British cars, my pat answer is I don't know what year it is but I can sure fix it, like don't do that to the gearbox it did not leave the factory like that as if they were standing @ the factory door watching it leave, my fast answer is do you want it original or would you like it to work.
Well, you know the saying Mick, "you can't be right all the time".......I try to do my best and be as accurate as I can,.......... but when I only have a small snippet of evidence.......I'll bow to greater knowledge than mine.............after all, it is only my interpretation of what the boats look like at a certain period in it's life.
Those who wish to super detail them when they are building their own are quite at liberty to do so..................after all......lifeboats were notorious for a) none of them being the same, and b) never as the plans drawn would suggest........even the builders had their own interpretation on a theme.
So rather than argue a point, I'd rather just get on with it, and for those with a problem of the build, choose whether they would want to buy one when released or not.....there will, as has been with the many that have bought the Anne Letitia Russell, and the Liverpool class released later this year that will most probably buy (if comments, and interest has shown),there will be many, and that will be my vote of confidence. O0 O0 O0
Neil
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How many real life lifeboats were painted with Halfords rattle cans?
Even two identical boats (if there ever were such things) repainted in
different yards would have a slight difference in paint shades due to
how it was stored, stirred and applied.
When we stripped the Charles Dibden down there were different shades of grey,red and blue on her.
As you say Neil its your interpretation of the vessel at the moment in its life that you choose to depict.
Ned
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Hear Hear!! and let those who can do better (which does NOT include me) SHOW US, and be prepared for the adverse comments,most totally uncalled for.
Mick F
( I think I have a clean mind...just come out of the shower)
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Just don't let this transend into an argument lads............'
cheers, neil.
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well, have bit the bullet and sanded the endplates flush and rounded and fitted to the boats in the places shown on photos, not as per plans as on two of the boats the plans show them about 4 - 6' away from the position on photos.
I have also made the rim for around the companionway on the H F Bailey and painted it.
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SPOT THE DIFERENCE!!
Recently I have been in contact with the son of the ex coxs'n who served on the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts and who was also a crew member from an early age.
Apart from the little niggles about certain parts for the boat that now and then get pointed out, one of the main concerns was/is the colour for the steel engine casing just forward of the rear cockpit which carries the funnel on the "Smuts".............they were usually painted a grey similar to the H F Bailey and the Mary Stanford........but Glyn seemed to think that it was varnished timber from memory to begin with.
I pointed out that this part was an integral part of the watertightness of the boat as the steel casing including the water tight door had to stay intact......just at it did in the famous picture of the wreckage of the Fraserbourgh lifeboat after her disaster ........so Glyn went off to hunt for photos in colour, and found two of the "Smuts".....showing the sides of the steel casing a medium brown colour..............so we ( between us) have decided that the top of the casing of the boat is brown......and so I gave it it's first coat of No. 9 Humbrol this afternoon, to match with the edging plates of the forward cabin.
It will need a few more coats, but closely matches the very small areas visible of the engine casing on the colour photos.
And finally , come on Glyn, make yourself known on the forum.......your input has been very very valuable so don't be shy join in the fun.
neil.
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Looking really smart Neil and am well impressed O0 Hope your ok after your bout of stones, luckily have never suffered from them myself and from what you and other friends have said about the excruciating pain, I certainly don't want too! Anyway keep up with the excellent work, regards, Tony. :-))
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Hi Neil, I have a question for one of your commentators, seeing a picture is worth a thousand words so I would like for Heritorasphodel to show us a picture of his boat or boats that he has built how he has done the anchor blocks, also it is nice to compare different ways that people build their boats, I would assume from his post that he is very experienced @ building the old style lifeboats, me I am having a lot of fun with my Tamar but I would seriously doubt that it would pass the eagle eye of an "Expert". soon I will post it on here & wait for the rocks to fly, just be warned I can throw too.LOL. Mick B.
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I just think we have be a little kinder to people.
If I stump up a dumb idea no body is bothered, yet another guy comes up with a possibly valid point and people get upset.
The model 'is my model' not the 'rivet counters' is a valid arguement, but if we sometimes ask a guy for his advice, then is
it fair not to expect his freely given input too, and to respect it even if we choose to take another path. Sometimes it is very
hard to make a point without seeming pushy - especially in writing a post - there are none of those little hints we take from
voice and body language. ......... and it wolud be a poorer forum without the odd expert coming out to play.
Dave
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Hi, first I have to say thanks to Dave for his point, it is really difficult to say anything without sounding like a knowitall. I may be right in saying that there are people reading these threads who do not comment as they are wary of what people might say. I've certainly read a couple of threads (this is not one of them) where the poster has flatly refused to accept any criticism, and after all, isn't that the point of a forum?
As for Mick's point, I would dearly love to post photos of my boats, but a) the three I've got are nowhere near finished, and b) I have my exams coming up on Wednesday so I don't have time for more than the odd post here and there. If there are any more complaints, give me a few weeks to get them out of the way then I might start a thread for my Liverpool and this argument can continue on there.
After all, someone else's thread is not a place to be having an argument on rivetcounting. Building 3 boats at the same time is probably difficult enough without having to deal with squabbles between posters.
Andrew
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:-)) :-)) O0 O0
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I will be looking forward to your posts Heritorasphodel, I have a real passion for lifeboats, mostly from Neil encouraging me. I don't agree that that we should be critics of other peoples work , we should encourage people to post as much as possible & a lot of people shy away from too much criticism, ultimately in some cases it causes the loss of a good thread & in some cases the member as well. I would suggest that if you see a member making a serious error & you know 100% & I mean 100% it is an error, PM him/her & in a nice way show them what you think is wrong.If at that time they refuse your advice, stop flogging a dead horse. Few if any of us want to be accused in public of doing things wrong or looking stupid. There are people on most forums that try to make themself look very clever by knocking the work of other members, I would suggest that is not a good way of contributing to a subject on a forum, & I for one lose respect for people that do it, we should be here to help each other @ all times, Mick B.
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flogging a dead horse.
Hi Mick
According to the forum rules this can only be done in 'Sales' after Andrew makes 25 posts (17 more to go)
Dave
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Hi Dave I want what ever you are smoking, you get a little bit funnier & dare I say twisted by the day. It must be all that night work having a strange effect on you, but you are sure quick witted, looking forward to next year, between us we could start a riot. Don't you think though that Neil is really on a roll, what ever happened to the time off because of the kidney stones?, he is back at it in a few hours, now there is hobby passion. Mick B.
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Dave is located in Liverpool, and a lot of good comedians tend to come from there.Ken Dodd (the best) They joke when they steal your car wheels LOL.
Good to see this post is now coming back to a friendly nature,so lets all let Neil get on with his build,and let him and his stones "get satisfaction"
Mick F
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Hi Mick
According to the forum rules this can only be done in 'Sales' after Andrew makes 25 posts (17 more to go)
Dave
Don't forget Pictures, Price and Location {-) {-)
Ned
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Hi Dave I want what ever you are smoking, you get a little bit funnier & dare I say twisted by the day. It must be all that night work having a strange effect on you, but you are sure quick witted, looking forward to next year, between us we could start a riot. Don't you think though that Neil is really on a roll, what ever happened to the time off because of the kidney stones?, he is back at it in a few hours, now there is hobby passion. Mick B.
Im guessing his "stones" are bigger than his kidney stones
I think the only time I ever saw my father cry was when he had kidney stones
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Im guessing his "stones" are bigger than his kidney stones
now yer talking.......Stones Green Ginger Wine with Schweppes Canada Dry........now that's a blast from the past, and halcion days canoing, drinking the stuff, and skinny dipping in creeks up northern NSW, oz..........great days.
anyway back to the boat....the last colour brown on the "Smutts was too light so Glyn the crewman sais......so mark three version...this boat'll have more slap and facelifts than Joan Collins, but I'm determined to get the colour right.
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maybe you should rename it "Joan Rivers" :D
Is that the time?.... I can see my coat and that sounds like the taxi outside...
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Dave is located in Liverpool, and a lot of good comedians tend to come from there.Ken Dodd (the best) They joke when they steal your car wheels LOL.
Good to see this post is now coming back to a friendly nature,so lets all let Neil get on with his build,and let him and his stones "get satisfaction"
Mick F
Are you saying Neil and others are stoned???????????? {-) {-) {-) {-) %) %) %)
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well, I've had confirmation today that the latest colour that I have painted the engine casing of the "Smuts" in is just about right, so after I havehelped my electrician to sort out the wiring to the shower ( which is very perplexing to say the least) I can give it a few more coats.
Yes....any sparks amongst us.....
Scenario...............a few weeks ago the electric shower stopped working.........there was power to the main switch on the landing, and when the electrician tested it all, there was power going to the shower and all through it.
burt when you turn on the power on the shower, the LED on the main switch will go out and the shower still won't work...........water is getting too and through the shower, but the lecki thought it might be the solanoid........so I bought a new shower........he fitted it this morning, and exactly the same problem...the shower won't work and when you turn it on the led light on the main switch goes off............however more disconcertingly, the small auxiliary fuse trip box just doesn't trip out on any of these proceedures,which carries all but the shower and extension lights.........
and yet if a bulb blows the fuse trips on the main house fuse trip box
any ideas please as we are (excuse the pun) groping in the dark!!
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Just a thought Neil - and this could be the dumb idea mentioned earlier - is the water supply of sufficient pressure?
Has something happened in or out of the house to reduce pressure? Power is there but a low pressure sensor won't
allow heating to take place is my thinking.
Also you say 'I have helped my electrician to sort out the wiring to the shower ( which is very perplexing to say the least) I can give it a few more coats.'
Painting the shower unit is not a good idea and with your record the colour is probably a shade out too.
Dave
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forget the shower and have a bath?
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Hi Neil if you don't wash soon I will be able to smell you from here, Talk to Dave he is an expert on bathtubs. I would say about your boat colours that when we look at it on our monitors they all have slight colour differences, I have double monitors on my computer & your paint colours look different from one monitor to the other. Also all the painters that I have asked have told me on many occasions to always check your colours under natural light & NEVER under tube lighting of any kind as there are several different colour casts from different tubes & they even change from one manufacturer to another despite been listed as the same light value. As an aside, when you are running machines under tube lighting you should also have incandescent light to eliminate the strobe effect you get with tube lighting for safety reasons. Mick B.
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cheers for that Mick..........I'll pull it out into the garden tomorrow to have a look seems like good advice to me , thanks.
well, after an dayus horribillis where I might have to take the bathroom tiles off and the stud walling apart to get at the wiring because ther eis a break somewhere between the switch and the shower......and I don't relish that we are back to having baths for the time being.......don't bother me as I love a wallow.........just like a hippo, but my wife and kids hate baths.....it was down to doing a little modelling.
So!,
Now that the colour scheme has finally been sorted out I can now finally get down to painting and fitting the fittings cast for the models onto the right positions...started this evening by just adding a little detailing to the funnels of the 3 boats..the Klaxon horns, and the support brackets and the mast crutches that fit to the H F Bailey and the Mary Stanford.
The "Smuts" doesn't have a mast crutch as she folds her mast forward. the Klaxons I haven't fitted yet as these will be painted seperately black and brass, but the brackets and crutches will be sprayed with the funnels in a creamy yellowy buff colour
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please note folks, not only can he build 3 Lifeboats at one time, but he can also watch "countdown" on telly at the same time ! Who said we males cant multi task??? I bet he plays with his submarine in the bath as well!! Up periscope?
Good work my friend
Mick F
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no mate...my little lifeboat......... {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Hi Neil I should have added to my last post that one in five males are colour blind, that is a medical fact, mostly to the colours of brown, green & red, I am not sure which we see for what or how we get them mixed up, I am sure there is a bit of infro somewhere on the net. This is from my RAF days as you could not have access to drive on an airfield if you were colour blind.(not me I was O/K) Mick B.
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ok I admit defeat on this one of course it had to be a lifeboat
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Now folks ....here is a cunundrum ( speaking of Countdown)....that I have no answer to. and is open to all Lifeboat officionado's, anoracks , the very knowledgeable amongst you all and just about any one of you that might have an idea
Pictured below is a shot of the RNLB Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts on her naming ceremony around 1945/6.
In fact she was on station by the 25th September, 1945 just 6 weeks after the dropping of the Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima. So the country was still at war.
She was therefore built during the war period....something rare indeed as there were few built
She was also out of the many hundred's built over the years, only 1 of three boats built by a company called Morgan Giles of Teignmouth in all the years of motor lifeboats for the RNLI.
She was also one of only three boats of this design to be penned, and one of only two to be completed...the other being the RNLB Millie Walton earmarked for Douglas I O M but eventually stationed after the first few months of her life at Cromer to become the RNLB Henry Blogg.
So here is the question, and reading between the lines are the clues I think....and quite unusual.
On the port side of the forward cabin at the aft end, can be seen a plate ( looks like a steel plate ) rivetted onto the wooden canopy/cockpit of the boat.
This doesn't appear on the sister boat, the Henry Blogg, but on the starboard side of boat boats in the center of the same position sits a motor driven capstan.
Was this a cockup on the part of the builder ( and therefore never offered another build contract) where they put the capstan on the wrong side originally, or was it war damage of some sort or even protection for the helmsman...........more questions than answers I think........but it is safe to say........I'll not be putting it on my model, as it would spoil what she should have originally looked like.......and apparently this steel plate was kept on her throughout her whole service life............very strange...........and I have never seen this on a lifeboat before.
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Hi Neil if you don't wash soon I will be able to smell you from here, Talk to Dave he is an expert on bathtubs. I would say about your boat colours that when we look at it on our monitors they all have slight colour differences, I have double monitors on my computer & your paint colours look different from one monitor to the other. Also all the painters that I have asked have told me on many occasions to always check your colours under natural light & NEVER under tube lighting of any kind as there are several different colour casts from different tubes & they even change from one manufacturer to another despite been listed as the same light value. As an aside, when you are running machines under tube lighting you should also have incandescent light to eliminate the strobe effect you get with tube lighting for safety reasons. Mick B.
If Australia, if you want good colour rendition with fluorescent light tubes we use "daylight" tubes and not "warm white" or "white".
Daylight tubes are installed in work environments where colour is important eg Bank tellers handling bank notes.
I use daylight tubes in my model and workshop areas. You can also get daylight bulbs in the small compact energy saving fluoro tubes.
They may appear brighter but equate to natural light hence name daylight
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I use the Full Spectrum Daylight Bulbs , great for reading colour codes etc great bench lights and handy for taking Pictures
Peter
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I use the daylight tubes too & you can buy extra bright ones that give far superior light than the regular ones @ double the cost though.The 4 ft. ones are now been discontinued & replaced with skinny 2 ft ones for energy efficiency but @ double the cost too. Mick B.
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I suppose they could have mistakenly put the capstan on the wrong side, but is it likely that the boatyard would make that mistake? Granted this was one of three boats they had the contracts for, so maybe they weren't particularly good.
War damage I think is even less likely. Were there any raids in Teignmouth in '45? (it's a bit before my time). I'dve thought that if any raids would only be reaching as far as London if that at that point.
I think protection for the helmsman is least likely, as the Millie Walton was built first and she didn't have it.
I think boatyard error is probably it, but that plate looks fairly crude.
Andrew
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I wouldn't think a yard like Morgan Giles would have made a mistake like that.
During the war they built over a 100 MTB's Harbour launches and pinnaces.
After the war they built two Gay class,two Dark Class and two Ham Class so I
think they knew what they were doing!
Ned
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as you guys say.....it's a mystery....but a very strange one and the crew at the time didn't know why it turned up from the builders yard with it covering a large proportion of the cabin?...I don't think it was meant to be there unless a repair.........Possibly because it was built during the war, where natural rescources were very scarce, that was the only way to go, if a mistake had been made.....this was the only boat of class that Morgan Giles built though.they didn't build RNLB Henry Blogg
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hi ya Neil
You are doing a good job on 2 fronts
1 with the build and the other with converting me from a 'grey boy' to an orange and blue boy :-)
Ive been thinking about the picture that you have put on concerning the plate which is fastened to the side of the cabin. How does this grab you for a theory.
Knowing the lifeboat guys are a lot like the navy guys - if its not right - they dont accept - so I dont think this plate has been put on as a bodge by the builders. Wondering if the initial design of the lifeboat required an opening in the side to facilitate the removal of say, buoyancy tanks for repair/inspection or fuel tanks. This is one possibility; the other one is that without what was supposed to be on the inside of the cabin - was there supposed to be some heavy machinery mounted there originally? that is a possibility - I favour the idea of an access hatch for the removal of something out of that area of the boat. I have seen this done before, where 2 boats have been built in different yards, supposedly from the same set of plans but one boat has been modified because its been further through the build than the 2nd boat.
just food for thought there
aye
john
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John.the cabin is just an open space inside, with two pedistals with wheels on top for forward/reverse of the engines, and the pedistal for the compass and wheel....also there is a steel bulkhead to the front with a w/t door leading down below. the bulkhead contains all the dials and switches for the engine controls.
the cabin at that point is just two 3/8" thick diagonally planked on battens......so I personally think that the capstan fitted to the side of the cabin on the starboard side, was mistakenly put on that side, and had to be covered and reinforced just prior to handing over.
and hey lads.how about a Mayhem holiday boat...we all chip in and draw straws for holiday times......cos this beaut is for sale..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXd9Gp55LjE
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Price?
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no idea Dan.......I couldn't find one......Iain Crosbie owner of 002 who sent me the link might know if you are interested.....are you a euro lottery winner though....you'll need it for fuel costs, lol
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hi ya Neil
You are doing a good job on 2 fronts
1 with the build and the other with converting me from a 'grey boy' to an orange and blue boy :-)
john
John..we're always happy to receive converts from the grey funnel line %% %% %%
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Well interested and not interested Neil. %%
Im more of a bayliner guy although an ex rnli trent would be very nice indeed.
Fuel seems to be killing everything these days..
Dan
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nah..matey..you want steel under ya.
Trents go soggy on the bottom after a while, {-) {-) {-)
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well, less of the dreaming about big boats......and back to reallity.
I set out my vents, cowls , funnels and other larger bits and pieces this evening and gave them a first coat of primer....had to make a start as there are so many fittings to go on......if I can get all the fittings sprayed in batches whilst I put three transport stands together it will make life easier once I have sprayed the hulls in the next week or so.
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By 'eck Neil the speed of your progress still amazes me, got a spare mug of whatever your on? {-)
Credit to you mate, keep it coming - most enjoyable and very enlightening. Regards, Tony. ;)
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I'm not that speedy Tony....
these fittings, and all the other ones that I have to go on the boats have been made and cast over the last few years......I'm a fake really..........in the immortal words of Valerie Singleton....."here's one I made earlier", lol %% %% {-) {-) {-)
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I'm not that speedy Tony....
these fittings, and all the other ones that I have to go on the boats have been made and cast over the last few years......I'm a fake really..........in the immortal words of Valerie Singleton....."here's one I made earlier", lol %% %% {-) {-) {-)
Now Im devastated... I had visions of you up untill all hours manically casting, muttering to yourself
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a few more of those "made earler " fittings now painted up and readtyfor sticking onto the jigsaw puzzle.
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Well, I decided to get away from the painting of fittings this afternoon and get down to some "decorative" woodwork for a change, and so decided to make the rope bins for the "Smuts".
This consisted of a framework at deck level to attach the sides too...I doubt wether this was anything like a feature on the real boats as no positive photo is available of the bins at deck level but to aid the structure I have used a little modellers liscense or the thing wouldn't have stood a chance of remaining together. For the base I used some mahogany strip of 6 x 3mm and for the uprights some 3 x 3mm mahogany. For the rails I used some 4 x 2mm obeche that I had cut many years ago for some reason or other.
I started off by glueing the rectangular frame ( mitred at the corners) onto a piece of 1/64th ply to hold it all together, and left to set under a 12v battery.
Whilst these were setting(using quick grab aliphatic resin) I set about making the sides using the mahogany and obeshe strip........these were also left to set for an hour or so.
To fit the sides via the uprights to the bottom frames I cut recess slots into the frame for the uprights to glue into, before leaving them to set in the upright position.
Next was to glue the end rails in place to make the whole construction rigid.
A capping rail was glued to the top of the uppermost rail and left to set.
Tomorrow there will be a section cut out of the rope bin on the inner sides next to where the cowl vents go for access to the bins and the rope inside.
Finally they'll be sanded and stained teak in colour before varnishing.
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The rope bins have now been trimmed up to fit the curvature of the cabin , sanded and pvarnished with a teak coloured varnish.......
I think it might need a couple more coats, but will let this one dry first.
The access sections to the bins have also been cut out where they sit next to the cowl vents.
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Going back to your metal plate Neil,someone mentioned wartime bombing could have been a factor? I am not sure if you meant the yard was in Teignmouth Devon,or Tynemouth? If it was in Devon,It is more than certain that it did get bombed,as German Aircraft just followed the river to get to Exeter,so some bombs would have been dropped early by mistake. It is the 70th anniversary today of the start of the German raids on Exeter,which suffered 18 air raids continuously,with great damage.
If the yard was Tynemouth,then sorry for wasting time, but it may be information for your many readers.
Keep posting your amazing work ( you will have to have time off for the Bank Holiday!
Mick
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Hi Mick..........yes it was from the Boatyard of Morgan Giles in Teignmouth, Devon..so could have been as she was delivered in the summer, but having said that it was delivered in the august of 1945 so the war in europe was all but over with the Luftwaffe completely stuffed by then....so unless it was damaged much earlier, the mystery remains, and I can't find a date on the plans, which usually signifies that it was either close to being built or in build process.
as for bank holidays.....what are they, lol
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I have now come to the stage where I have to make the stands for my boats so that I can protect the hulls once I have painted them this week.
I have to admit that of all the models I have ever built, no two stands have ever been made the same way, or have ever looked the same.
However the best stand that I ever made was for a 57" model of the old WW1 HMS Kent, County Class cruiser.
At the time I hadn't a car but had reverted back to my carefree days and was riding a BMW r100s motorcycle.....it had a carrier rack on the rear, and I needed a stand that would sit on that.
It didn't concern me in those younger days that the model would have to sit crosswise across the bike, nor did I count the number of wing mirrors on cars that I took out.....wooops......it was the fact that I could still ride like a maniac and that my model wouldn't slip off the stand.
So I devised a stand that would support the model via rubber straps..............these tended to grip the hull rather than let it slide, and I could go round a bend or roundabout at 45* and the boat would still be there when I got to the lake......more than can be said for many things I carried on my bikes....lol.
Also in all the times I carried the model, the hull never got one scratch from being carried, and the whole stand acted like one huge shock absorber.
So today ( not that I am going to carry these models on a motorcycle, unless I get a Harley donated from some kind benefactor) I decided to make the stands for my lifeboats in a similar way......using pedal cycle innertubes for the rubber supports, and pine for the frames....I also left enough space under neath for the R/C gear, batteries etc, plus the odd tinny or two %%.....And I have to say that they look snug and safe cocooned within the frames, to boot.
simple to make, take all the shocks from motoring especially if the boats are put in a trailer for transport and they get there without scratches.....tried and tested in the most hairiest of ways, {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Hi Neil your stands are brilliant but I am disappointed that you have not built in space for the beer & jam butties. Seriously though I have now been on the forum one year (how time flies) & your builds have been the year's highlight for me. The amount of information you have given so freely has been the best hands down, once again thank you. Mick B.
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Man!!, you are a flatterer of the first order {-) {-) {-)
What you after? :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
neil.
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Mick's spot on Neil - don't be embarrassed and rebuff worthy comments. This has been an exceptional build log and a joy to read, the boats ain't bad either O0 {-) {-) {-) I too like the stands, really ideal for transportation and so much easier than all the faffing to try and make an unnecessary precision fit which are good for showing but not always practical on the move. You've shared an awful lot a long the way in an honest and warts 'an all manner, your skills are a credit to you mate. Will you do yourself a favour when all complete and launched ??? ........................ CLEAN your b----y workshop! {-) {-) {-) {-)
Regards, me.
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Hi Tony, I agree with you 100% & if Neil does not clean up his workshop we should organise a midnight raid & do it for him, what a b---y mess, it is amazing that he can produce such amazing work in that rat hole, LOL. Mick B. PS= your own build Tony is of a very high standard too just in passing.
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Having recently been in Neils workshop, I can assure you it has everything one needs, a TV, a heater, Workbenches and even a drawing board, but best of all it has TWO seats so a guest can have a sit down! ()after a quick dust off of course LOL)You get a choice of tea or coffee as well,and the workshop is in working order,and shall we say organized chaos, with good honest dust and muck ! What more do you want? I think I saw a dustpan and brush as well,but maybe I was dreaming that the next night. The hospitality is 1st class (and he parts with even more free info!)
(and I'm not after anything but if you would like to pass on one of your new builds I will post some more HONEST praise!)
Mick F
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Mick's spot on Neil - don't be embarrassed and rebuff worthy comments. This has been an exceptional build log and a joy to read, the boats ain't bad either O0 {-) {-) {-) I too like the stands, really ideal for transportation and so much easier than all the faffing to try and make an unnecessary precision fit which are good for showing but not always practical on the move. You've shared an awful lot a long the way in an honest and warts 'an all manner, your skills are a credit to you mate. Will you do yourself a favour when all complete and launched ??? ........................ CLEAN your b----y workshop! {-) {-) {-) {-)
Regards, me.
thanks tony and all, et al......
My wife has been threatening to clean my workshop for years........I just worry at what she might throw away that I might need in about 20 years time,if I can remember it's there...where ever it is, {-) {-) {-) {-) %% %% %% %%
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Having recently been in Neils workshop, I can assure you it has everything one needs, a TV, a heater, Workbenches and even a drawing board, but best of all it has TWO seats so a guest can have a sit down! ()after a quick dust off of course LOL)You get a choice of tea or coffee as well,and the workshop is in working order,and shall we say organized chaos, with good honest dust and muck ! What more do you want? I think I saw a dustpan and brush as well,but maybe I was dreaming that the next night. The hospitality is 1st class (and he parts with even more free info!)
(and I'm not after anything but if you would like to pass on one of your new builds I will post some more HONEST praise!)
Mick F
You're an even bigger creep than Irishguy {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)...what you after as well, {-) {-) {-) {-)
Actually,some one is already after the Field Marshall and Mrs Smuts........and it is going to be very hard to part with any one of these, unless someone offers me a lot....they have been a part of me and my modelling life now for a good number of years now and it'll be very hard to part with any one of them..
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Anyway, back to reality..and down to some work today ( well last night to be more exact, for the firsat thing.........
I got round to doing another of those little detailing parts.....remember the item on the main mast...the black tube that operated with the mast when upright or folded down. It turns out that (as one mayhem member suggested) it is a conduit for wiring and electrical gear up to the mast head.
I made this from some black silicon tubing, a base fitting which came from the Clyde class lifeboat, and a piece of brass tubing.
And to set it all in place, the tabernackle was fixed onto the cabin top using a thin layer of polyester filler which allowed the tabernackle to set level and without gaps, on to the curvature of the cabin. You can see in the last clse up shot of the tabernackle, the filler oozing out from under the fitting, which was cleaned off as it was going rubbery but not yet set.
It also located into the cabin top using 4 pre fit brass pins that set into pre drilled holes in the cabin. The brass tubing acts as a guide for the silicon tube to slide up and down when the mast is raised and lowered.
Incedentally, Dave Metcalf told me when we were having a chat last night on the phone, that he has passed on the moulds and rights for the Clyde Lifeboat that I built last year to Andy Grigg at Models By Design, so if anyone is wanting that model........a real brute, but will take any weather, then Andy Grigg is the one to see.Good luck to him.
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Hi Tony, I agree with you 100% & if Neil does not clean up his workshop we should organise a midnight raid & do it for him, what a b---y mess, it is amazing that he can produce such amazing work in that rat hole, LOL. Mick B. PS= your own build Tony is of a very high standard too just in passing.
Guys,
Don't you know that if that happens how will he be able to find anything O0 O0 O0
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I just like the idea of us all turning up after the pub lets out
and having a big party in the shop (forget the clean up)
I wonder also what Neil's music would be?
In Mick's (Canadian driving) terms most of us only live next door
but we don't meet up.
Dave
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Guys,
Don't you know that if that happens how will he be able to find anything O0 O0 O0
I can't anyway...........it's got to be an improvement......rock it on lads.......I might find my tin full or 14 ba nuts and bolts if you do, {-) {-) %% %% %% %%
Today, I began to prepare for spraying the hulls of the three boats in this rat hole, by giving a coat of etching primer, to key into the grp without blooming.
I am by no means anywhere near a decent painter, and tend to muddle through, and I tend to become impatient when painting, but have said to myself, this time, I'll spend some tme and take my time, leaving coats to dry, and rub down with wet and dry well.............ummmmm!!!.
hopefully I'll reach a desired effect that will be pleasing to the eye.
So, I got down to it, and even after the first coat, things didn't go well at all......first I found a small area on the belting of the H F Bailey that was hollow underneath the gell coat, so painting stopped whilst I cut out the gell coat and filled, then sanded down, before giving another coat around the area with primer.
However, on the Mary Stanford, there was an even bigger cockup to cover...........
After spraying up with the coar of etching primer, I was looking at it and watching the preverbial paint to dry when I realised that I hadn't put into the two anchor recesses, the hawse pipes from the anchor/rope recesses to the deck..............so I then had to work that out, using brass tubing, and filler to hold it in place, so after drilling the holes to take the hawse pipe, that was sorted, and after cleaning up the mess created it was back to a covering coat of etching primer.
However, for the opening where the hawse pipe comes through the deck, I used bulwark hawse plates ( moulded for the Clyde lifeboat) as the deck housing surrounds, bedded in with polyester filler, and trimmed up just as it was going off..
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I just like the idea of us all turning up after the pub lets out
and having a big party in the shop (forget the clean up)
I wonder also what Neil's music would be?
In Mick's (Canadian driving) terms most of us only live next door
but we don't meet up.
Dave
I'm sure I could put a little Pink Floyd on for you guys, and then once mellw and draped over the benches after a few noggins, some simon and garfunkel to sing along to, lol
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Re your trick with the filler to get a level surface for the mast tabernacle...
I tried to use this on the radar mast on my 47' Watson, having first put down some cling film at Furball's suggestion (so I could remove it again for painting)
VERY bad idea... Not only did the filler refuse to set, but somehow it ate through about 5 or 6 layers of paint that I had beneath it, AND glued the cling film to the ply! So all in all not a good day. >>:-(
I'm glad it works for someone! :-))
Andrew
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It appears Neil uses a similar Filing/Storage system as I do. Its called the WIFIF filing system (Where It Falls It's Filed)
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At least Neil's is a working shop.
What a crime to have a pristine workshop/tooling that is unused.
%% tidied my little shed - everything in it's place - next job was
paint ........... looks like beeping Mars - very fine red dust now lays
absoutley everywhere O0 {-)
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Re your trick with the filler to get a level surface for the mast tabernacle...
I tried to use this on the radar mast on my 47' Watson, having first put down some cling film at Furball's suggestion (so I could remove it again for painting)
VERY bad idea... Not only did the filler refuse to set, but somehow it ate through about 5 or 6 layers of paint that I had beneath it, AND glued the cling film to the ply! So all in all not a good day. >>:-(
I'm glad it works for someone! :-))
Andrew
Wasn't a trick, Andrew, but then again I wasn't going to remove it once it had set, and never did recomend that to any of the readers of this build!..It is common knowledge that polyester filler is one of the better adhesives around and will stick almost any thing to anything......and you'll note that I also trimmed it up before it went off...........so NOT a bad idea after all!...only bad if you don't know what you are doing with the produce......"a little knowledge (as they say) can be dangerous??" {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)...didn't mean it really......... %% %% %% %% :} :} :}
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My sympathy goes to Andrew re using mouldable material for seating items. Tried it on a stand once, used sellotape on the hull - with a lick of vaseline on the surface, laid up the filler on the locating edges of the stand, bedded in the hull and left to harden off...........NOT a good idea! despite the grease coating, the hull was stuck like the proverbial to the stand and with a modicum of brute force I finally got the hull off the stand including the sellotape and filler! There was obviously some serious reaction from the filler and what a mess, I had a right game to remove and clean up the hull {:-{
Sorry Neil, back to you!
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no probs, Tony......
I only ever use it ( other than as a filler) for glueing.........as a moulding compound I'll always use Milliput, which does come away with cling film.
Polyester filler has a solvent in it ( as does any polyester resin based produce.that will desolve into and eat into most things if left un impeded.
neil.
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Filler primer now applied. I'll give them all another coat of this tonight before I turn in, and then will give a couple of either white or grey primer tomorrow before setting about them all with wet and dry.
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Primary coloured primers now added.......will need a couple more coats before rubbing down with 800 grade wet and dry.
Wht the different colours......??
Well, the Grey primer on the Mary Stanford is because her anti fouling is a green lead colour, as she was an "afloat" boat in Ballycotton Harbour, and topside is ford Galaxy Blue....a slightly darker shade of blue to the other two boats, and therefore will take a darker under primer.
The H F Bailey and the "Smuts" both have a white underhull as they were both slipway launched and boat house stored, and with a lighter Oxford Blue hull they will take a white under primer.
All boats will be given more coats of under primer before the final colours are added.
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First coat of colour.....AT LAST!!!.........
After wet and drying the grey primer down this morning, I decided to spray the green lead underside of the Mary Stanford with the nearest match I could find to the old green lead colour I had.....Halford's Ford Laural green.
I decided to spray in the windless open air garden rather than in my dusty workshop....and just after starting, the wind picked up, but I got the area's that are in nicks and crannies done first, and will go out in a few minutes to give an overall coat.
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the first of 4 full coats.this was the prefered lead oxide anti fouling of the RNLI in the first third of the last century for afloat boats kept in harbours rather than in a boat house for slip launching.
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well......it had to happen.......glorious sunshine this morning....and then just as I put the first coat in, it starts spitting with rain....... as usual.........if it's not dust, in the workshop then it's rain, lol.........so needs must.....got out the gazebo that I haven't used because of the c r a p summers the last four years......guess what...can't find the top sheet...........U N B E L E I V A B L E !!!!!!.....so again mother of all invention and all that..................I have used my old classic car cover for the "roof"....worked well and off a spraying I will go, lol
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I find the same, the paint always seems to find dirt or rain as its drying off!
Looks well though! :-))
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cheers Dan........it doesn't look too bad.....all the nasty bits are under the watter, lol {-) {-) {-) {-)
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take note all you people who take the p**s out of Neils workshop-- he knew where to find his Gazebo and cover,and he is well trained to take the washing in also( I expect he will be told off later about the green overspray on the best tablecloth!!) Nice one Neil
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luick has saved me...we were still using the christmas cloth that is green and red festive..........and if you believe that....you'll believe rottweiler..... {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Not completely so rottweiler - he couldn't find his gazebo cover ........................ not exactly hanky size is it!!!!!!!!!!!! I rest my case! {-) {-) {-) {-)
Ok Ok so I'll add my name to the list of cleaning volunteers %% %% - so long as I get an invite to the maiden voyages - fair enough? O0 {-)
Am genuinely impressed - great stuff neil. :-)) Regards, me.
P.S. my notifications still aint working - a hunting I have to go. {:-{
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so long as I get an invite to the maiden voyages - fair enough? O0 {-)
. {:-{
Meet at Etherow in June Tony and you can sail all three, lol
neil.
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So much for a british summer...... <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:(
Back to the drawing board with my portable spray booth.........and the ground is under 3" of water..............so much for spraying al fresco!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Now, what can I do inside my dusty shed whilst my lawn feeds the water table of this country and lessens our drought conditions.
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It was lovely weather in the morning, think I brought the rain with me, sorry. I was in Neils workshop yesterday and made it out alive, lol. Everything in it's place and a place for everything, wish I had one like it.
The photos don't do the 3 Lifeboats justice, they're going to look wonderful on the water when finished. I much prefer the character and lines of the older classic lifeboats over the CAD designed slabs of the modern boats, maybe I'm just getting old!
Keep up the good work, Dave. :-))
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WATCH IT! Dave's after something as well Neil,proving your workshop is environmentally friendly Lol. I agree about the Lifeboats tho!
Mick F
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WATCH IT! Dave's after something as well Neil,proving your workshop is environmentally friendly Lol. I agree about the Lifeboats tho!
Mick F
Lol, I didn't mention the gazebo. Looks a bit of a disaster area, I'll bring mine to Ethrow anyway.... :-))
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Looks a bit of a disaster area,
even bigger disaster is that I plugged the submersable pump on, that I use to drain the sink trap in the garden, and it tripped out the whole house electrics...........so not only have I a knackered gazebo, a flooded garden that I can't drain, and therefore it's a no go area for us all.but I now have to go out tomorrow and buy a new submersable pump and wire it all in.......Me and electrics just don't mix.......AT ALL!!!
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Might have been your electric shower that tripped it all mate {-) {-) {-)
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Whilst I have been in conversation of the ex crew member of "Smuts" he told me that there was a rear pen to the rope bins, and so have added that. Whilst doing the measuring up for this, I found that my preliminary position for the funnel,vents and decklights were too far forward by around 15mm and so, whilst waiting for better weather, I set about doing the changes yesterday.......made the rear pen front rails, and re positioned the holes for the deck lights and funnel, by filling the originals by putting a strip of plasticard inside the grp moulding , held to the moulding with polyester resin, and then sanding smooth before re painting and here are the results.
there is some slight disagreement about the inner longitudinal rails and their length, going back to the cockpit, but looking at photos, I can't see this. also the short rear rails of the bins..........should they be there or shouldn't they............well, for structural purposes on the model, they'll have to stay there (even if not on the real boat) for if I were to take them out, I feer the whole structure would be very much weakened, and so using modellers license, they are staying put.
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well! I've given up on this british summer already......a drought order in most parts of the country, and it's done nothing but persist itself for the last few days since I decided to spray outside......just can't believe it.
So after a brief spell of decent weather between downpours I today wet and dried the two Watson hulls ready for spraying.
Then I had the brainwave ( not common for me) that my mate has a large very clean and tidy garage where he used to restore and spray his Austin 7's, and after a phone call I am taking them down to his place tomorrow morning for spraying over the next few days.........hopefully without any drama.
So this afternoon I also masked off the lower hull of the Mary Stanford ready for spraying the upper hull with Oxford blue.
I used Frog tape delicate for the actual masking, so will see what sort of line this gives once removed.
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It will be interesting to see the results of this new Frog tape. Even on my 19 foot Cygnus Fishing Boat,using masking tape,I have always preferred to use a very narrow type,which follows the curve of the boat without the little rucks and folds which using a wider tape tape causes,so hopefully avoiding the dreaded "bleeding" I understand this type of tape forms some kind of gel barrier ?
Mick F
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I used it on my Flying Christine, Mick..and got superb results.
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cant fault that Neil,something else to go on my shopping list! I will never forget when marking the boot topping on my Cygnus, I left the masking tape on overnight,and coming back next day,after it had rained, I had a monumental job to get the tape off! It came off in so many tiny little bits,that I had to do it all again,making a new line above the previous.
I always peeled the tape off immediately the job was completed after that!
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the tape on that Flying Christine was left on for over a week.....kept forgetting to take it off....but it came of like peeling a satsuma.........it might be expensive at around £8.50 a roll........but it's better than the frustration caused by other tape I've used in the past.
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Hi Neil
Whatever happened to your Flying Christine?
Dave
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the show model finally went to Guernsey....I sorted it out with the director who had known nothing about the undermanager's rude and idiotic gestures,
and the working one is still stood on the top of our wardrobe, collecting dust and waiting for me to fit the batteries and R C into ( all waiting there) and taking down to the lake......that'll be my next job after finishing the lifeboats in a few weeks.
neil.
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Oh How joyous it is to be able to spray in a nice clean tidy garage workshop for a change...........must do something to mine one day soon???? {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Anyway, went down to my mates this morning and gave the Mary Stanford it's first two coats of Ford Royal / Oxford blue and the two 46' Watsons their first two coats of Polar white......but not before we had covered up Rod's beautiful model of the old Fleetwood J Marr and son's NAVENA, which he is adding the final finishing detailing such as nets trawl doors and rigging which go to make up one of his superb models.......don't want overspray getting onto that beauty.
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Oh How joyous it is to be able to spray in a nice clean tidy garage workshop for a change...........must do something to mine one day soon???? {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Neil,
The recommendation in these situations, is to take two aspirin and lay down for a while, until it passes O0 O0
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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He could always enlist for the TV Programme, "My Secret Life as a Hoarder" They will come and clear it all out for him,and give him counselling as well. At least when he has taken the aspirin, he would then be able to lie down in his workshop ! (you know you want it Neil !
Mick F
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He could always enlist for the TV Programme, "My Secret Life as a Hoarder" They will come and clear it all out for him,and give him counselling as well. At least when he has taken the aspirin, he would then be able to lie down in his workshop ! (you know you want it Neil !
Mick F
Mick,
Am a little worried about the counselling bit, maybe double up the Aspirin, because we want Neil to complete the Lifeboats and continue with boat modelling O0 O0 O0 O0
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I get all the councelling I need from my wife and two daughters..that's why I took to the bottle...............glue bottle that is!! {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Hi Neil, just wondering if you had a bed hidden away in the workshop. I don't suppose it would be much help though because by the time you found it it would be too late anyway, LOL. I must say thank you for the fast reply on the deck issue. I am sure not everyone on here know this man & the help he dispenses 24/7. I have NEVER dealt with a more helpful bloke except Dave @ ACTion is from the same page. Dave (norseman) is cut from the same cloth, nothing is too much trouble for any of them. Sorry guys there are a whole load of others on my list too, Colin Bishop, Bryan Young, John (oldiron), Tony(tt1) & I could go on. I should not miss out Dave (#6) You are a great bunch of guys & all a credit to the hobby & the forum. Sorry Neil for taking up space on your thread but I know it will be seen here. I have been on here now for one year & it sure has been a great experience. Thank you all & Martin too.Mick B.
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can anyone tell me where i can buy a dustpan and brush and a large bottle of aspirin......the man has only been in my garage for half a day and already its a bombsite.......PLEASE HELP ME :o <:(
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My misses has just seen this....she says you should have lived with me the past 25 years...then you'd know what stress is {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
good to see you on the site, my mate........has that paint gone off yet if so, get the heating on in the garage, I'm on me way to give them another coat %% %% %%
neil.
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can anyone tell me where i can buy a dustpan and brush and a large bottle of aspirin......the man has only been in my garage for half a day and already its a bombsite.......PLEASE HELP ME :o <:(
Bottle is in the mail {-) {-)
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Mick (Irishcarguy), what a nice man you are! :-))
Hello Trawlerman, I've a blower vac if it'll help - moves muck and dust around like a tornado O0 - may be useful if Neil needs any nonslip decks whilst painting? {-) {-) {-) Heated garage eh? spose he'll get tea and toast to boot!
Regards, me.
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hello tt1.......thanks for the offer of the blower, it would have to be powerful to dislodge his discarded materials, he declined the tea and toast because i charged him 50pence , and as far as the heating goes i,ve taken the fuses out.....all the best.....trawlerman :-)) {-)
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thanks raaartygunner do you think one bottle will be enough? i can,t get rid of the guy......trawlerman
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Trawlerman,
Should be and you are taking the rights steps in discouraging continued presence, namely taking fuses out of heater, charging for tea and toast etc. :-)) :-))
Keep up the good work and he will be back to his normal?????????????????? self back in home territory. O0 O0 O0
We await his return to normality?????????????? %% %% %% and updates :-)) :-))
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who needs enemies with friends like you lot? %% %% %% %% %% %%
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LAUNCH THE LIFEBOATS!!!
This thread needs rescuing - it's turning into a big group man hug.
We'll be doing ring a ring a rosies, naked round the Rowan tree next ;D
I just blame Mick in Canada.
I wonder if you can you plank with Rowan?
Dave
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oh god can you really imagine Neil naked prancing round anything? Come on Neil, PLEASE put some more of your build up,to destroy that image!
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well......just been round to my mucker's house.....and the paint on the lower hulls seems to be ok.....so will mask up tomorrow and then spray the upper hulls of the two watsons with the two relative Blues.......Royal/Oxford blue for the H F Bailey, and Galaxy blue for the "Smutts" as she was a later boat using a darker colour..........hopefully pics of the Mary Stanford in her main colours tomorrow.
neil.
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" my mucker's house".
Neil, I'm sure it's not relative - but what's this fixation you have with muck? {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Looking forward to the pics, :-)) me.
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It's an old "fylde" term for a friend, Tony..one who mucks in with you, and gets stuck in with the work............very coloquial, and just sometimes it comes out...
they are the best sort of friends...there when you need them,lol
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Not that colloquial, Neil,
Mucker is a description of a mate that is used this side of the Pennines quite often.
Regards
Richard :-))
P.S. With three builds at the same time, AND this post to update,
I am surprised you have time to sleep, never mind clean the workshop.
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d'you know I only thought it was local to my area........I stand to be corrected. O0 O0
anyway for an update....all spraying has now been completed on all three boats, and it's now down to painting by hand the fendering on the boats in red gloss which I'll do over the next few days.
I took the masking tape ( Frog tape.delicate) off the hull of the Mary Stanford and it has given a perfect join line.
well worth the money for the rolls.
finally, I seem to have been hijacked on my builds by my mucker who asked me to put 3 pics of his trawler under lighting...she does look well.
I think he cheered when I drove down the road {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
neil.
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Looks like a perfect finish Neil, going by the reflections in the paintwork. I think the Boathook in the last photo might be a bit overscale though? Lol
Mick F
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Looks like a perfect finish Neil, going by the reflections in the paintwork. I think the Boathook in the last photo might be a bit overscale though? Lol
Mick F
{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
I think my mate was going to post on here after I'd left...............he's probably gone to lie down in a darkened room, and fallen asleep...he's getting on a bit now...and can't stand the added excitement {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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3 cheers the squatter has been ejected..........it will take all week to get straight again YIPEEEEEEEEE :-) :-) {-)
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charming!!!! %% %% %% %%
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on the serious side......from what i,ve seen so far ,they are going to be 3 bonnie models ........PS you can use the garage anytime 8) :-))
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on the serious side......from what i,ve seen so far ,they are going to be 3 bonnie models ........PS you can use the garage anytime 8) :-))
cheers matey......but don't say that...every one from far and wide will be spraying in your workshop.......you'll never get any work done, lol %% %% %%
here's a shot of her I took a few minutes ago in the sun with her cabins on.....I am beginning to get a little excited, lol O0 O0 O0 O0
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Looking the bizz Neil! :-)) I can sense the excitment building - by the way where is Etherow? I've googled it and a number of Streets / roads by that name come up from all over the country, but not a specific area. Where exactly is the one you refer to?
Oh, and yes me 'ol mucker ............... I knew exactly what you refered to - used it here in the midlands for donkey's, me old china is another - rhyming slang as in china plate (mate).
More pics when you can please! Regards, Tony.
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Hi Neil, which period are you building the Mary Stanford for? 'Cos we've uncovered the rigging diagram for 51' Barnetts, after a mid-life refit when the sail mast was removed and the shorter radio mast and mizen were added.
It's specifically about ON.735 Weymouth, but it has details on spar lengths, mast heights etc for the whole class.
Andrew
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isnt etherow that big airport place near London, the one with the big cues?
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Hi Andrew, thanks, but am building her as she was when she took part in the Daunt Rock Lightship rescue in 1936, and had the huge mast, no r/t or anything, just the Morse signalling lamp abreast the mast tabernacle.It saves me trying to mock up radio gear inside the cabins for which I haven't got a clue nor any pics for. lol %% %% {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
Thanks anyway.
neil.
and cheers Tony..........and I just thought it was us cod'eads around Fleetwood that used it.lol...and Etherow......
http://etherowmodelboats.blogspot.co.uk/
and the lifeboat rally is look halfway down the page at 23/24th June.
http://etherowmodelboats.blogspot.co.uk/p/monthly-competitions.html
It is the National Lifeboat Rally that used to be held at Southport for years
Neil
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Looking very nice Neil, as usual.
Dave. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Cheers, Dave.....have now "unwrapped" the Watsons with the white hulls, and am pleased with the joint of blue to white........next will be painting the belting red
luvvly jubbly
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I think the little white dots on the pics are scratches on the camera lens.....none can be seen on the boats. {:-{ {:-{
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charming!!!! %% %% %% %%
Neil,
If I am understanding the lingo, Isn't that what a mucker is supposed to be, to stop mucking about and be straight to the point %) %) %) %) O0 O0 O0
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Looks great I always like the older lifeboat colours, very nice as usual
Peter
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Neil,
If I am understanding the lingo, Isn't that what a mucker is supposed to be, to stop mucking about and be straight to the point %) %) %) %) O0 O0 O0
I can only summise what you are saying is true RR,so many words and phrases get lost in the sands of time,
Peter......yes........there is something about the Red, White and Blue of a classic lifeboat hull to stir the patriotism for the service..........it's just a pity I had to paint the underside of the big Mary Stanford in Green, but that was her colour ( contrary to the famous painting by Tim Tompson) at the time of the rescue.
neil.
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I was looking at the photo of the H F Bailey last night that I had posted, and the Blue looked wishy washy, and not deep in sheen, so went out to the model...........to my horror I found that the cloth that had protected the paint from the stand and the rubber supports had in fact done exactly the opposite.......around the blue I now had some patterning of cloth weave set into the blue paint.........obviously I hadn't left it long enough to harden..............so in the end, I had to wet and dry this out of the paint, and then remasked it all up this morning and resprayed the top hull of the HFB........it now has a deeper lustre to it.......typical impatience on my part. <:( <:(
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the more colour I put on, the better they look.........beginning to realise that the beginning of the end is nigh!
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Starting to look very good my friend. You are right it is the beginning of the end, I for one would love to be @ the launching, it must be a rare occasion when someone launches 3 new hand built boats @ the same time.One small observation looking @ the photos was that it is not a broom & dust pan you need for the floor of your workshop but a pick AXE. You will never be able to lay the carpet (or anything else) on that floor until you find it first. Joking aside I really wish you were my next door neighbour & I mean that,I would be watching your builds day & night. Mick B. PS. = Correct me if I am wrong but it was Churchill that said "it is not the end my friends, it is not even the end of the beginning, but it is the beginning of the end". One of my all time favourite people. Mick
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he also said ( and this is my favorite of his) when he asked Lady Astor ( I think..but some toffey nosed aristo anyway) for a dance at one of the House of Common's Balls.....
"No Sir!..........you are drunk!"
"Ah, yes madam, but you are ugly.......and in the morning, I shall be sober" {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Favourite Churchill quote,
Lady to Winston " If you were my husband, I would poison your tea"
Winston to lady " Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it"
Regards
Richard :-))
P.S. That paint work looks stunning.
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Well you've certainly cracked on with the painting Neil and looking good. Checked out the link for Etherow...............am on holiday those days - s. h. 1 tee. Would have liked to come up. Maybe make it another time. Another thought - don't clean your workshop, it'll lose its mystique and you'll never find owt either!
regards, me.
P.S. a quote from W.C.Fields when asking a lady what she'd like to drink............ she; "champagne I guess" he: "well guess again!"
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Hey Guys
Neil's holding a 3x Lifeboat lunch ..... oh sorry it's launch. Now that's worth sponsoring O0
All great quotes from the famous but you just can't beat a bit of Voltaire
'Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.'
Dave
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the painting is almost finished on the hulls now.........and there is a certain pride in putting that bow Flag on to the first boat.
All I have to do now paintwise is to paint the toe boards on the "Smuts" as unlike the H F Bailey and the Mary Stanford, they were a tan colour rather than the light grey of the other two.......this will be done tomorrow if I can find the damned tin.....if not will have to wait till monday for the shops to open. {:-{ {:-{
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then those beautiful RNLI flags go on!...proud to be worn on such a vessel
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And now they begin to look like lifeboats......and with colour come to life.
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Neil,
Amazing what a coat of paint will do.
Lookin good O0 O0 O0
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Who cares what state Neil's workshop is in,if he can produce such superb results as this.What a modeller,and what Quality. I only hope he gets to bring them to the Blackpool show in October,so that I get a chance to see them in their finished state.
A privilege to know you my friend.
Mick F
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thank you guys.........i have had the gypsy's warning tonight, that as soon as these models are finished.......my wife and daughter are going to ravage my workshop and give it the clean that it needs so badly............I've told them to put filters on the hoover pipe so it don't suck up all the bits I've lost on the floor for the past 15 years, lol %% %% %% %%
I am rather pleased with the paintwork......as that is (like my computor skills) rather a weak point in my model building......I loose patience with it....the old saying "watching paint dry"...................I'd like it to dry instantly so I can get on with other things.......very impatient , that I am. {:-{ {:-{
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Can I come down and clean your ML10 Please {-) {-) {-)
Honest I will if you let me O0
Peter
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I have been quietly watching this thread and think its about time I said something...
WELL DONE THAT MAN :-))
Fantastic work Neil. Dont tidy up, you know it will change your frame of mind, and you will never find anything again!
Ian
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thank you chaps............seeing your laithe, Peter.........I daren't have you come round........it'd show the rest of my workshop up.....it's be so clean I'd be frightened ever to use it again.
neil
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Neil,
You could issue mittens to all the visitors O0 O0 {-) {-)
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Mittens? Think white cotton gloves may be more appropriate it'll be so clean! :-))
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just been round to the infamous workshop to see the progress of the models, the painting looks superb and also the fittings are very detailed and well made ,the winch is spot on and all in all they are going to look beautiful......trawlerman :-)) :-))
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just been round to the infamous workshop to see the progress of the models, the painting looks superb and also the fittings are very detailed and well made ,the winch is spot on and all in all they are going to look beautiful......trawlerman :-)) :-))
wot yoo afta matey............I can feel something in the air {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Keep him buttered up Neil, you never know when you want to use his "spraybooth" again! Perhaps he wants to know how you get such good quality cobwebs in your workshop,or maybe he wants to interbreed your spiders with his Lol!
Mick F
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(http://s14.postimage.org/qrzgx2qlp/Workshop_Burrow_Threatened.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qrzgx2qlp/)
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well, while the cat's away the mice will play.....have you lot noty got boats to build or mend {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Well.......some of us have been busy this afternoon........naming and faming.....getting there.
by the way,i can't see Daves two meerkats....just get a little box with a red cross in it....but I know it's there..........I've got my spies about.........simplesss
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wooooppsss, the "Smuts" got named too...nearly forgot.
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Watching these builds has encouraged me to get back to my own boat... not that it'll stop me from following these :-))
Andrew
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I'm glad I've encouraged someone into profitable time................working on a model........the others just wanna come round and clean my b***** workshop up, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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I'm glad I've encouraged someone into profitable time................working on a model........the others just wanna come round and clean my b***** workshop up, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Neil,
If they won't wear mittens, try boxing gloves, or as a last resort put em in a straight jacket.
Blimey some people can't keep their hands to themselves well I never. <*< <*< <*<
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these magnificent builds are now nearing their end. What are we going to do when they are finished? Do you reckon we could persuede Neil to start another project to keep us all enthralled ? Certainly hope so !
Methinks it just might be a Liverpool Class, but we shall just have to wait and see wont we.
Just give him time to hire in a large skip and JCB, to clear out his workshop, and he can start over.
(you know we love you really Neil !) LOL
Mick F
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these magnificent builds are now nearing their end. What are we going to do when they are finished? Do you reckon we could (you know we love you really Neil !) LOL
Mick F
Personally,
I think, knocked out and dragged to Scotland to a slightly cleaner shed for six months would do him the world of good!
(my wife would be in her element cleaning up)
Slightly bias regards,
Kim
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Personally,
I think, knocked out and dragged to Scotland to a slightly cleaner shed for six months would do him the world of good!
(my wife would be in her element cleaning up)
Slightly bias regards,
Kim
Ahh, now, Scotland for six months....that would sound fantastic but for the midges............... %% %% %% %%
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well, it was an early start this morning....if I'm going to get them ready for Etherow in mid June, i'm going to gave to get cracking and burn the midnight oil,......but so many distractions..............
this morning I made the brackets for the grab ropes and tethers for the bow pudding fender for the Mary Stanford.
The ones I was going to use for the boat, from the fittings that I had were very brittle and I had fears of them breaking when I tied up the "ropes" so yesterday went down the craft shop for some "eye" rings...couldn't be bothered making them for the price I paid.
I made the bases from plasticard, drilled to take the eye ring and then glued to the hull fendering.
The Mary Stanford is the only boat of the 3 to have hers hanging from brackets under the fendering.......the two watsons hang from above, and hopefully the brackets for thise in white metal aren't as brittle.
To mark out the spacing which from photos of the MS look equal, with a gap of one hanf towards the froward part of the boat , I used a piece of plasticard cut to the space , and after fixing the first and last bracket, I marked them out with ease, finally drilling with a 0.6mm drill bit, very carefully, {-)
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I have just had pointed out to me by a gentleman that I have been in contact with about the "Smuts"..both he and his father served on the boat, his father as coxswain...that I have spelt the name wrongly.............just shows ( as I took the name directly as printed from a book which lifeboat modellers over here treat as a bible)...that you can't take everything that is printed, as gospel.......and it's a case of research, research, research all the time if you want to get things right.......I'll correct that this afternoon.
There's nothing more embarrasing that to do that to a model that you have spent so much time building.
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what a shame, after doing such a good job. Thats an "L" of a mistake to make.
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I almost made the same mistake on my Liverpool. The name the book gives is Bassett-Green, but the photos have it without the hyphen.
And interestingly sometimes the names on the boats have mistakes as well :} I've a photo of [ R.N.L.B. The Lord Southborough (Civil Service Life-Boat No 1 ] where they've left off the last bracket from her name :embarrassed:
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t492/heritorasphodel/06c708e3.jpg)
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what a shame, after doing such a good job. Thats an "L" of a mistake to make.
you need to get out more... {-) {-) {-) {-)
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And the white metal cast brackets have now been fitted to the two Watsons.
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been busy today, and the brain hurts %% %% %%
Started off by painting the rope brackets and masking off and painting the scupper plates..........some might say that the plates were painted the same colour as the hulls to blend in, but others I have seen have been painted ( or galvanised) steel, and therefore look silver............I painted them with polished aluminium to set them off as a feature against the blue of the hulls. This only applies to the two Watsons,as even on the oldest of photos that I can see of the Mary Stanford, there was no evidence of such scupper flaps, meaning that the water intake into the two cockpits was sluicved away by none return relief valves through the bottom of the hull.
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second job was when I was looking through some photos of the "Smuts".......I found that the steering wheel wasn't the normal standard wheel.
Apparently because the helmsman stands above the wheel midships, the normal standard 30" wheel was too small for comfort and so an extra ring and horns was added to it to give a greater diameter so that the helmsman could stand to the wheel without bending over.
so the task was how to extend a normal white metal wheel into a form resembling the wheel on the "Smuts".
I first flattened off the existing horns on the white metal wheel to give a contact surface for a brass ring.
I made the brass ring by bending an anealed strip of 1/16th brass around an Austin 7 piston ring clamp, ( supplied by my mad mate Trawlerman.........I mean, who would give up Austin 7's for model boat building, %% %% %%), before silver soldering the ring together.
I then drilled with pilot holes through the ring into the horns of the wheel, slipping brass wire into the ring and horn to lock it together. After it was joined to all 8 spokes, I slipped some plastic tube over the wire to extend the horns, and left it all to set.
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And finally for today, after all this I couldn't resist starting to string the grab ropes from the brackets, and so started off with the H F Bailey.
Sadly over the years, I have found many a good model lifeboat made to look more like a toy boat, because the ropework has twisted and taken a form all of it's own. I couldn't put a finger onto this until one day, when I was making my first Anne Letitia Russell, the mechanic from the boat said to me.....(in his scottish accent) Naw laddie........juv strung tha wee ropes reet , havent yee".
I said to him what did he mean by right.
he explained to me that rope is made with a twist, and that rope will only lie straight if it's laid WITH the twist.......no use laying it against the twist, or it will loop and coil to it's own shape all day long and you woun't be able to do a thing with it.
he said that most ropes, yarns and threads are made in a clockwise direction ( with very very few being laid and made anti clockwise) and so it only makes sense to lay those ropes on a lifeboat ( being real or model) in a clockwise direction...........and this means starting from the stern, PORT SIDE, working round to the portside bow, and then from starboard side BOW through to stern, starboard side..............in this way, the rope won't twist, like can be seen on some models.
so, since that day, I have alwayse strung my boats small or large, in that manner.
On the H F Bailey, I have used stranded Kite string for the grab ropes, tied with a thinner thread. to get them sitting properly I then once tied, spotted the ties with cyano, and run cyano along the thread, and held with a spray can, whilst spraying with zapper....the rope then sets and lies in a fixed possition on the boat's fenders.
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today I finished roping up the safety grab ropes on the other two models."Smuts" and Mary Stanford, but this time I used some scale cord that I found in my rope bin....it hangs better and am thinking of re roping the H F Bailey in the next few days.
However they are now looking more like it.
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Then it was a case of tarting the bits and pieces up that have already been fitted........this was in the firsat instance the fairleads and the bow Gobeye and rollers on all three boats.
For this I mixed two half pots of humbrol paint together to give me a less harsh bronze colour that that which comes from the normal metallic bronze Humbrol tim..............I mixed bronze and brass colours together in a 50/50 mix....this will do quite a few fittings.
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Looking at those pics I think they need another coat of paint, lol.....was pretty shattered with brain freeze when I was doing those, lol.
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And now the great slog begins.............all building and casting done..........I just have to get all these fittings painted, detailed and fixed to the models before June 20th and Etherow........can it be done.
All of the plastic bags also contain small and minute fittings that have to be painted and fitted, both inside and outside the boat cockpits to varying degrees.
neil.
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June 20th and Etherow........can it be done.
(http://s18.postimage.org/d11c2x2yd/Doer_Sign.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/d11c2x2yd/)
Dave
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today I fitted the deck lights and surrounds plus painted a few fittings, and fitted the engine reversing wheels to their plinths......the pile gets a little smaller of "to do" things.
The deck lights, although not the right colour ( as I couldn't accertain the right colour do give a little depth to the things, and so, at the moment will do the job until a certainty of colour comes along.....they are easily changeable as they are held together and in their recesses by double sided tape.............so are removeable....but I needed to start somewhere and getting some fittings on deck is better than procrastinating and doing sod all .
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Neil,
I've sailed on boats with this sort of deck light, although not a lifeboat. They are usually made from a block of glass, which looks green in reflected light. Bottle green - as in glass bottles. When looked through from below, they are transparent. When looked at on deck, they select the surrounding light, but generally look black with the shape of the prism showing.
Hope this helps.
(http://s17.postimage.org/t5gt6f7aj/images_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/t5gt6f7aj/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/d8i19pewb/images_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/d8i19pewb/)
Chris
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cheers Chris.......will look for some green plasic.
Oh what a difference a bit of sun makes.....painting and drying al fresco....can't beat it, lol
the brightness will once dried, be dumbed down by a paint brush laced with carbon powder, and vigerously rubbed over the paintwork. And then the dials will be added to the control panels.
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If what Chris has shown you is the right thing, then here's a picture of one of those fitted to Hearts of Oak (c.1912).
(http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq277/rbm109/Nobby/DSCF5680.jpg)
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Niel,
I hope you got al's permission before you painted him :}
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Cheers Rob.....they were all basically standard fittings so those'll be the ones. cheers.
the difference between virgin metal painting and that dumbed down with carbon on a tooth brush.
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Cheers Rob
You're welcome. I suspect your lifeboat chaps would have been a bit handier with the Brasso though! {-)
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the more ya clean, the more it goes green! %% %% {:-{
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All the fittings have now been painted that are going inside the cockpits.....and weathered, and a few more besides.
The "black spot" has been painted onto the bulkheads...this is to give a little "depth" behind the porthole set into each watertight bulkhead door...and all will be fitted to the bulkheads and insides of the cockpits tomorrow with any luck.
neil.
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I have had some discussions in the past week or so with my "guardianangel" Glyn, who was a crewman on the "Smuts" and the ships wheel that was causing some concern has had to be modified.
I wrongly assumed that one of the "horns" shown sticking out the top of the wheel on a photo was indeed a "horn" off the outer extension ring.........it wasn't, and I hadn't looked closely enough, as it was in fact one of the compensating irons for the compass lieing just beyond the wheel.
So the horns were snipped off. Also it came about that the outer ring was too wide, and this was ground off a little, and an outer rased piece in plasticard was added to the outer edge of the ring, to give it a circular look. Finally Glyn told me that this outer ring was coated with a none slip grip, similar to baize....this I replicated to some degree by winding grey cord around the rim to give a similar effect.
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Really great work & detail Neil, you do take that extra step every time, again thank you for your open & honest details of your builds. Mick B.
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TWO sewing experts under one roof ! Come clean Neil whose nimble fingers did the winding on? LOL
Mick F
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All my own work guys..........Maria will only knitt fenders for me, and perhaps sow the odd sail.............might have one on the Mary Stanford......haven't decided yet, lol :-))
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H F Bailey's engine room bulhead now been fitted with miriads of white metal and resin fittings....a few more to go on and around the cockpit......but I quite like it.
neil.
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Hi Neil
That's all really lovely work - you are cracking on at a pace now.
Have you given any thought to that wheel getting properly wet?
Would the twine (I'm assuming it's a natural fibre) benefit from waxing or sealing in any way?
Dave
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cheers Dave.........I'll be coating the thread with varnish, but it is, actually old cobbler's thread which was impregnated with a wax.....have been using it for years as rigging twine, and it really is good.......you can see the water run off it.
neil.
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old cobbler's thread
Oh yes, I think we'll all remember that it's Neil's old cobbler's thread. O0
Dave
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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The engine room w/t bulkhead for the RNLB Mary Stanford is now almost complete.........just have to put the engine room fire extinguisher onto the top of the bulkhead centre between the engine water cooling header tanks (painted copper)...but that is drying at the mo.....and got fed up watching it dry.
The gratings have been fixed to the removable floor and set in place.
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Looking very smart Neil.
Very interesting following the build
Dan :-))
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cheers dan.
glad you're liking it.
neil.
However................., spot the "deliberate" ( I think not..what a cockup, lol) mistake. I just have after looking at the photos!!!
The Mary Stanford has her steering wheel fixed to a steering rod feeding back to the rudder box on the stern, and not on the ship's binacle column.............think the grey cells are getting tired.
the wheel has been removed for fitting at a later date to the steering rod.
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I hope all watchers are noting just how much excellent detailing is being added by Neil, it certainly does open ones eyes into "What goes into a model kit" and realise when buying a kit,just what you are paying for. I cant wait to see these three models in their finished state.
Thanks for sharing it all with us Neil, you certainly deserve a reward for doing this,
come on guys how about contributing to a shovel to help him clear his workshop after the build??????
Mick F
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you cheeky sod!!! {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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you certainly deserve a reward for doing this,
come on guys how about contributing to a shovel to help him clear his workshop after the build??????
Mick F
Maria says "don't bother....there's one in there somewhere............just need to find it" %% %% %% %%
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What a great topic and build threads you've shared with us Neil. It has, quite sincerely, been a most enjoyable journey and am well impressed with the variety and application of all the skills you have. O0 Hope to see them 'in the flesh' one day in the near future - the boats that is!
Kind regards, Tony. :-))
P.S. If "Rotty" provides the shovel I'll let you know if I locate a dustcart driver that is allowed to use his wagon for personal purposes - may help with the removal! ;) ;) ;)
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No Shovel I'm afraid, but I could let him use my giant wooden spoon ( but can only be used anti clockwise)
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Any JCB driver's on hear that could spare a few hours {-) {-) or even a Bob Cat, but that may be needed for a few days though:} :} did you know his ceiling was at one time 15ft high, now he has to duck in places O0 O0
BUT he produces realy nice boats and that is all that matters , I am thinking of messing my shop up to see if it will improve my building {:-{
Keep ip the nice work Neil
Peter
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I am thinking of messing my shop up to see if it will improve my building {:-{
Keep ip the nice work Neil
Peter
yours don't need improving Peter....they are superb already.
neil.
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just a few more pics of bits added. the first is of the two removable plates to gain access to the propellors down the tubes into the tunnels.even though they can hardly be seen under the gratings I know they are there. the other is of the base to the rudder steering box on the Mary Stanford.
finally two shots of the gratings in place on the H F Bailey.
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You can make use of anything in modelling...even Kellogs Cornflake boxes.
after much discussion with Glyn, the ex crew member of Smuts, it was decided that the engine controls for the smuts were fixed to false walls made up onto the wooden battoning on the inside of the for'd cockpit......so this false wall was added this afternoon.from kelloggs box card, sanded on the shiny side to give a key to the glue, and sealed with sanding sealer on the outside.
These will be painted black and then the instruments added.
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the false walls have now been made and can then be glued onto the areas where the card facing had been added this afternoon.....The false walls were themselves made from 2mm plasticard, and will, when glued to the cockpit, slide over the combing that the cockpit itself fits to.
they now just need sanding and then gluing before being painted satin black.
Note that on the last picture the wheel is off set to the port side......this was yet another foible of the "Smuts", and yet another is that the w/t door on the bulkhead will be off set to the starboard side.....all for management of the crew in the shortness of space in the fore cockpit.........this One boat has taught me an awful lot about just one variation of a class of boats within the fleet, and to be honest, is testing my powers of research, with the help of Glyn the ex crewman, more than any other boat I have ever buit.
It is turning from just another boat, to use up an old hull and spares.........an "ugly duckling" for want of another word........to a beautiful swan........I am liking this boat more than the other two together., but all have a very big spot in my heart..sentimental.....well I suppose, but they have taken a lot of my life up over the past few years....they deserve that place, lol
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There can't have been much room for the cox's knuckles, that wheel comes awful close to the top of the canopy. :o Where was the compass binnacle on this boat, may I ask?
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Centre top of the cockpit......there is a certain amount of room between the wheel and the cockpit surrounds but it was cramped compared with the other watsons........however the cox did stand on the grating above the wheel and looked over the compass, rather than standing inside the cockpit on the cockpit floor..strange arrangememnt.........but both the coxs'n at Beaumaris, and the cox at Cromer including Henry Blogg both said that it was the finest handling class of boat that they had ever served on.
neil.
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THE HUMEROUS SIDE OF MODELLING {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Yesterday I was preparing the anchor brackets for the 3 lifeboats, and had drilled the upstanding bracket and base for two of them when complacency took over and I began to drill the third...........
there's nothing worse than white metal for dulling a twist bit and I had left the bit unsharpened for the third and final set of holes...........BIG MISTAKE!!! {-) {-) {-) {-)
I got half way through the first hole, and the drill was labouring a little......when heat transfer took over and my finger and thumb began to smoke.........b***** h*** I thought, and nature took over.....brain was in self survival or so I thought, and I let go of the fitting before switching the drill off which was humming away at a fair rate of knotts.................
The bit snapped and in a blurr of speed the fitting flew off at nuclear speed punching a hole in the telly at the dials and knobs and all I can get now is b**** channel 24.
I rang Mr Metcalf this morning for a replacement fitting (as all that I could find from the disaster was the top pulley from the upstand) and all he could do is laugh himself silly at my antics %% %% %% %% %%
Picture below of what they should look like and what was left after my attempt to launch it into space! %% %% %%
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when I do that as In cannot feel it, it smells of Pork {-) {-) {-)
Peter
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
I'm glad I'm not the only one then, lol %% %%
so onto safer materials,
after making the false walls for the engine control instruments, I painted them satin black and added the instruments as per plans.
Just have to wait now for the sectional plans for the cockpits from Cromer museum to detail the bulkheads with any detailing that they need.
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Keep taking the pills Neil! You need to slow down the builds, as those men in w2hite coats are queing up outside yor door! You sling your hook not your anchor!!! LOL
Mick (guess where I am at the Mo!!!)
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enjoying sunny Clevedon by any chance.
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how did you guess? not sunny though very dull and overcast but who cares...not me!!
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I paid a visit to his masters boatyard today, [ i put my hard hat on in case of low flying anchors] and i was very impressed with the cockpit details, they are coming together to make three superb models......rod :-) :-))
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yeh, but you didn't help me look for the missing bits did you? {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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A little bit more fitted to the "Smuts" fore cockpit, as this little microcosm of detailing nears a point where it will be finished soon
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As I am now waiting for sectional plans to come hopefully next week I have started on the fittings for the outside areas, including the cockpits, and when ever I have a paint pot out with a certain colour I tend to paint those fittings that use that colour......today was the turn of the boat hooks, anchor davit for the M S and making the hand rails for both outside and inside of the cockpits......all using generic fittings from other lifeboats in the range.
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I love doing fiddly bits that I haven't done before....stretches the brain.....this afternoon was the turn of the raised "stool" for the helmsman to see over the cockpit top on the H F Bailey and the backrest for the helmsman on the "Smuts"...........
Purists might say that there wasn't the cross piece on the backrest, but this was added purely to give the structure some added strength, and maintaining "modellers licence", it doesn't look to far out of place anyway.
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Neil, I think I have this right, but I am sure your many readers would like to join me in singing
"HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU,HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU,HAPPY BIRTHDAY COXN NEIL, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU !!!!!! (For Tomorrow,Sunday)
Mick F
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Thank you Mick...yes it's sunday....but change of plans..going to the lakes tomorrow instead of sunday as weather looks to be better tomoz.......can't go sailing in the rain....might get wet, lol
cheers, neil.
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Happy birthday from me too Neil, 49 again I see, you really don't look a day older old boy & I am now lost for words as far as your builds go, you are in a class all on your own, you are required reading every day, Mick B.
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Happy birthday Neil :-)) , did you get a nice leather cover for your bus pass {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) If the family take you out for a meal make sure you have something nice and soft to chew. O0 O0 ;D
Peter
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thank you chaps.........and Peter...haven't degressed to liquidised lamb just yet, {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Ooh, Birthday cake - save us a slice mate. O0 :D
Happy Birthday Neil - and have a nice family day out.
Dave
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Sorry Neil :-)), I posted the Picture then checked it and had to edit the middle line or I would now be banned, :police: still have a really nice day off and you can make it up tomorrow... %% %%we need our Orange and Blue boat fixes , and Dave no Cake for you {-) {-) {-)
Peter
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Have a Happy Birthday Neil, hope you have a good time with the family. Lifeboats are looking great, Dave. :-)) :-)) :-))
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and Dave no Cake for you
I'd have you banned just for that comment
us diabetics dream of a chance of some birthday cake - and Neil's must be blinking huge with all them candles O0 {-)
Dave
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Hi Neil I know in the world of model boats you are a very very important person, but don't you think it is a bit of a stretch that the Queen is putting on a thousand boat parade on the Thames for your birthday,talk about political clout. LOL, Mick B.(Canada) PS.= Enjoy your day off with your family & control the amount of cake intake.It always seems to stick right around your middle.
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I'd have you banned just for that comment
us diabetics dream of a chance of some birthday cake - and Neil's must be blinking huge with all them candles O0 {-)
Dave
So poor Neil has a day of and Dave wrecks his thread, OK Dave you can have a Pie instead , OOOOPS to late someone ate all the pie's {-) {-) {-) {-)
Peter
now give Neil his thread back as it is a serious thread. :D
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Happy Birthday dear.........have you lit the candles yet because i can see a lot of smoke near your house. have a nice day see you soon....rod :-)) {-) {-)
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Happy Birthday dear.........have you lit the candles yet because i can see a lot of smoke near your house. have a nice day see you soon....rod :-)) {-) {-)
O0 O0 O0 %) %) %)
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Happy birthday Neil. Boats are looking great, will you be taking them to any shows so we can come and see them?
Paul
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thanks for all your well wishes, lads.really do appreciate it.
as for shows, Stoney.......I'm trying to get them ready for Etherow National Lifeboat rally in three weeks time???
after that it'll be Blackpool show on the LBES stand..........don't really do shows as I tend to spend too much money, and with the price of fuel.............bit expensive.
neil.
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Happy birthday Neil, and many of em. :-))
ken
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thanks Ken....
I must be getting older......have done a senior thing over the weekend..........
I have had a bit of a disaster.......................................... as it twas my birthday today ,yesterday we ( family) went up to the Lakes District and hired a small motor boat to sail on Ulleswater lake......took a few pics with the camera of the event............and today I can't find the damn thing, so can't show any of the work I have done on the boats until I either find it, or buy a new one.......... think I must have left it on the stern of the boat...........will call the company tomorrow but don't hold out much hope
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I can imagine how you must feel. Have faith, it might turn up, as there are a few honest people still left. Perhaps the hire company have it and don't know who to contact.
best of luck,
ken
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belay that message.........I suddenly remembered that I have my spare camera which although has a busted viewing screen and shows nothing I can still view through the viewfinder and it works fine except for that..........so been out and taken a few of todays slow progress ( too much time spent viewing the Thames Pageant.
Made the back rests and the raised steering platform for the H F Bailey and the Mary Stanford, and put on to all cabin tops the Handrails, plus handrails on the insides of the cabins, which can't be seen unless you take the cabins off the boat or stick your head inside the cockpit....but at least I know they are there.
also lined up and painted are the fire extinguishers for the boats.
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Now someone who has seen the H F Bailey at Cropmer might say that the boat didn't have backrests for the helmsman/coxs'n but there is written evindence in one of his rescues that in a specific moment, Henry Blogg, (as in written RNLI station records ) was indeed thrown against the "backrests by a heavy cross sea and was badly bruised around the chest and suffered cracked ribs, and spent a number of days in bed resting"
So I felt that the addition of a backrest to the helmsman position was not out of character or order........call it modellers licence.
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Now someone who has seen the H F Bailey at Cropmer might say that the boat didn't have backrests for the helmsman/coxs'n
Maybe the backrests were taken off after the injury? It's a nice detail to have added, and you have all the evidence needed to back it up.
Dave
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Any news on your lost camera ?
ken
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nope, haven't found it yet Kenny...............I did try using the old spare one with the broken rear screen but it has a fault, and will only take one shot at a time before I have to charge the batteries again..........must be a massive short in it somewhere..................and I can't get close up's decent enough with my mobile phone.................sorry guys.................will be a catch up soon I hope.
neil.
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Starting to fret....I loaned the man my camera 10 hours ago, and he has,nt posted anything yet. I hope he has,nt lost it.....Rod {-) {-)
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Well matey........just for you........proof that it hasn't been pawned for my next fix, %% %% %% %% %% %%
started off yesterday by glasing all the port light outer and innners...........I cut the glazing from some old clear plastic that I tend to keep from the kids birthday and christmas pressies.............and cut the circles using a compass cutter...........the discs were pressed into the ports and then I back filled them with a little clear 2 part epoxy adhesive to seal them all up.
finally all the ports were glued into the pre cut holes using cyano.
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now we have a lot of happy people....another lesson in boatbuilding from Coxn Neil. Thanks for lending him the camera Rod, is it insured for loss or damage?
Neil, remind me to give you one of my RNLI FLOATING KEYRINGS,so you can attach it to any other camera,in case you lose it overboard,I suspect this is what happened to your last one!
Another nice set of photos,as usual.
Mick F
PS if you are going to get the gale force winds we have just had down here,with worse to come,you had better batten down the hatches!!!!
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cheers for the early weather warning Mick.............my batches are hattened, and workshop closed down for the night.
cheers.........mind you, if the roof blows off, then the dust will be no more %% %% %% %%
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the next set of shots are some pics of the smaller fittings that go to fine detail the models........."coat hooks" for hanging the binoculars in the cabins, hathets and axes, knives, chart tubes etc, etc.
but before that the inner port opening covers have been fitted where visible in the boats.
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And finally a few deck details have been added........chocks for lifebelts, hand grab rails at the stern of the two Watsons, plus fairleads and I think you can just see the fore samson post and Mast crutch on the Smut's bow.
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Today, I was informed of a few items for the aft cabin of the "Smuts" by my guru..........a steel box for holding the line throwing equipement, a box for holding the lines/rockets etc, and an open pigeon hole type locker for holding flairs.
The latter was to be split into 16 pigeon holes.......I had a locker that I had made earlier that I thought would do for the rockets and lines to go under the starboard bench, aft cockpit, and the steel box will be made from a block of obeche, but the pigeon hole locker, I had to scratch from plasticard, using a "carcasse" of 1.0mm plasticard, with an inner set of interlocking 0.8mm card to make the pigeon holes.
Secondly was the making of the mizzen masts from 6.0mm dowel and resin cast brackets and base plates to hold both masts in place at their set angles.
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Have been doing a lot of painting of fittings today, and added the samson posts with cleats to the boats as one, but realised from a comment my Guru made yesterday in email to me that I hadn't included the "explosives boxes".those containing the line throwing gun, and rockets for line throwing...........so made these this afternoon.........from memory of seeing the Anne Letitia Russell, the gun box was red and the under seat locker for rockets and lines was painted grey......both had haspe and staples with padlocks.............and I always think that those little bits of detail always add a certain authenticity and interest level.
When the paint hardens tomorrow I'll label them "Danger Explosives".
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Been fitting out the fore cabins with the oil tanks and hand pumps, gratings, bases for the samson posts and any other little bits and pieces inc. chart tubes and even hooks to hang the binoculars and megaphone on.........all add to the interest.
And lastly I'm glad my 13 year old daughter is a better spell checker than I or my computer are........was merrily applying the lettering to the grey rocket boxes and had gotten to the last box and the last E of the last word when she looked over my shoulder just befor she went to bed, and said
..............." Da-aaaaad!!! ( you know the way they do when they either want something or want to ask a question) "
"Ye-eeesssss!" I replied.
"isn't there supposed to be a "P" in explosives".
Duuuuuurrrrrrr!!!!!
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Such detail ! I just hope that when you put them on show,that you will point out the finer bits,as I am sure they will go largely un-noticed,and do deserve to be seen. three cheers for yor dorter too,for doing your spell checking, you are teaching her well to take the "P".
superb work Neil,thank you for showing us.
Mick F
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the lettering, by the way, is only my slant on things...........probably the boxes were totally void of such things but hey ho, what the hell................I'm building these for my pleasure, they are my boats, and I like the idea that the rockets and flare gun would be marked as such.
neil.
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Neil,
Am I correct in that the floral tabletop, image 012, is also modellers license but for which boat %) %) {-) {-)
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I thought it'd make a nice addition to the coxs'ns table RR..........do you like it?..................the fairies in the bottom left corner are a particularly nice addition. O0 {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
it's actually my mouse mat,.........no manly RNLI boats on a mat for me!!! %% %% %% %%
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would that be the Sugar Plum Fairy Neil? WoW this has brought to mind the image of you building your boats in a tutu !
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You should never wish for something in haste mick.......you never know when it might materialise......lol.....
Never let it be said that I'm the shy retiring type........... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
My birthday/house warming bash in 1984.................I'm the handsome one on the right.
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my flabber is gasted, oooogh cheeky!
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Well, it is regret that I have to say that my models will NOT be ready for display at Etherow National Lifeboat in two weekend's time.
I have been working flat out and up to 10.00pm most nights and find that there is more to do than I thought.
I've also made a few cock ups over the past few days whilst rushing them and so have decided that by rushing them, the enjoyment of building is fastly disappearing..............so back to the level and speed that I normally work at..........hopwefully they'll be ready later in the summer.
Just to put things into perspective I haven't even ordered my 6 speed controllers yet, nor have I got any motors for them, and the last straw is I'm fast running out of oderless superglue and will have to wait for that to be delivered..........ceste la vie.......
neil.
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Sometimes it's better to miss a deadline than to cut corners/rush
I for one am enjoying watching the build and am considering the purchase of one ehan they are ready
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thanks..............I was beginning to get fed up, ( only because I was rushing)..........but after making the decision last night to hold back and take it slowly...........I feel much more relaxed about it all this morning.......even taken the time to hang out the washing on the Siegried line, {-)......something I find very therapeutic when stressed, %% %% %% %% %%
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something I find very therapeutic when stressed,
Therapy - try getting your old vinyl records out Neil - I happened to do that last week - I found some gems and some horrors too - took me back though and a great experience.
Vintage Lifeboat William Cantrell Ashley apperently saw it's first service in 45 years - something to do with the Duck breaking down during the Pirate festival at Albert Dock. I have no other details.
Dave
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Take your time Neil,there is no deadline really.I am sure if you took them as they are to Etherow,they would still be greatly admired.
Meanwhile, get your Barbie out,and some Beach boys records,then at least you would THINK it was summer.Be careful you dont set the Tutu alight though!
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Take your time Neil,there is no deadline really.I am sure if you took them as they are to Etherow,they would still be greatly admired.
Meanwhile, get your Barbie out,and some Beach boys records,then at least you would THINK it was summer.Be careful you dont set the Tutu alight though!
It's beautiful and sunny up here....honestly.........got my funnels and vents drying on the back garden table.
as for the William Cantrell Ashley, Dave.........great news................she is a lovely boat........was wondering whether she was making her way up further north but she seems to have stopped in Liverpool for the summer.......is she owned locally then,
neil.......if she stays there I'll eb able to pop down and take some shots for when I get my Liverpool class kit off Dave Metcalf later this year.
Looking forward to that one very much.......very sad when I had to sell my prototype......but needed the dosh at the time..
neil.
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and as for taking a part finished boat to a show, Mick........never done that or even sailed a part finished boat.........would ( to me that is) be like taking a cake mix to a W I meeting for the judges to look at, anticipating what it tasted like once baked, {-) {-)
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Well, I've got over my hissy fit from yesterday.......nothing seemed to go right and I realised that I was not going to get the models finished for a show in two weekend's time which is devoted soley to RNLI and other SAR modelsand I was a little upset.
I started off by making ( or trying to) the wind/spray screens for the three boats.
when I made the Anne Lettitia Russell and ( I think) the Liverpool class boat I made the surrounds to the screens from "U" shaped brass extrusion, and it worked well...........but yesterday, after spending hours cutting, mitreing and then surrounding the screens with the brass.............it looked.................well s****, is the only word I can discribe it with.
So I re cut all the plastic screens, and decided to trim the edges with black vynil sticky tape..........the next disaster.......and by this time I was getting a little persisted off........as the adhesive on the vynil wasn't strong enough to hold the tape to the screen..................
so, I went back to basics, and decided to use my tried and tested double sided sticking tape that I use to stick windows and framed to superstructures.
I stuck this to the adhesive on the sticky back vynil and then stuck the vynil to the screens..........partial success but the tape still was having a tendancy to lift from the screens...........so in the end I put all the screens between two layers of conti boards and stuck 3 large car batteries on top to weigh them down, and brought the whole thing in doors to sit for a couple of days..........hopefully the vynil will get fed up trying to seperate and stay stuck......if not I'll then try the whole thing again but use black paper and double sided tape...........now that whole excercise took me the best part of yesterday without probable success................so you can now imagine why I was fed up last night.
Today have been spraying vents and other little jobs.....but that's another story.
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today I got a little more pleasure out of my build, knowing that I wasn't fighting a losing battle rushing to get them ready, and could build at my own pace.........
I sprayed up all the vents and funnels for the boats.......three different colours for three different boats.........the ones that look grey are in fact a light cream for the Mary Stanford...........must be the light in the shed.
the first photo is of the under coat for the vents.
I'll then have to paint the insides of the cowls with red, by hand.......all twenty of them...............luvvly jubbly...that should keep me quiet tomorrow, lol
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And finally for tonight, a few shots of the boats with the increasing number of fittings in place....(even although only temporary at the moment.)
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Beautiful work Neil & I am glad that you are taking the time to do it @ your very best. The boats & the finish are more important in every way, lot more than making a show deadline. Shows you can do when everything is ready & finished properly & you are not presenting something half baked.The volume of work you have done over the last few months boggles the mind, you have hardly missed a day. I think I speak for most of our fellow Mayhemer's here that we are very grateful for what you have done with this build & all you have shared with us, thank you, Mick B.
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Thanks Mick...............it's surprising that when you aren't rushing to a deadline.....you can actually do more work.......with less mistakes.
did a goodly amount this morning......fitted all anchor brackets, including the deck brackets for holding the spare anchor on th engine casing of the Mary Stanford.
painted all the bell mouths red for the cowl vents......and had a lovely chat with my "guru" Glyn, ex crew member of the "Smuts"
been a very productive morning.
neil.
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I'll slow you down a bit then Neil - here's some info for you :P
http://www.wirralnews.co.uk/wirral-news/local-wirral-news/2011/11/09/hoylake-lifeboat-museum-acquires-william-cantrell-ashley-lifeboat-in-new-link-up-with-liverpool-80491-29740840/
Dave
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that's splendid news Dave..........somewhere to go for a sail and a picnic.
lovely.
neil.
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Anchor Davit , cable stopper and cablle cutter have now been added permenantly to the Mary Stanford.
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it's amazing as you get towards the end of you start finding bits and pieces that you have forgotten to do, forgotten to make and even bits that you haven't a clue as to what they are because you've never come across them before..............
so I'll start with the thing I have forgotten to make first of all.........the rope bins for the Mary Stanford and the H F Bailey........these go inside the aft end of the rear cockpits in both models and were made from good old obeche strip, and then painted and fixed into place.
Secondly, and something I have been putting off for a while is the servo for the rudder for the Mary Stanford, which if you cast your minds back to before I put the deck on, it was fixed into a purpose built holder.............I inserted this into place, locked it into place, and then set about making the linkage bar ( which from the photos is self explanatory and set this onto the servo arm which I screwd in place.
The final set of photos are of the plans of the Mary stanford around the fore end of the engine casing and mast tabernackle..............my finger points to the object that looks like a mast crutch...............but it is set about 18" to the port side of the mast tabernackle and so can't be a crutch for the mast..............so come on guys..........any idea as to what it is...................I have emailed Quinton Nelsod in Donaghadee to ask him, but as yet haven't got a clue.
oh yeh.......and the tube that runs up the front of the mast of the mary stanford..............half expecting that one to be some conduit for wiring like on the Smuts.
neil.
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{:-{
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What's the matter Neil ? - that last post makes you look glum?
Dave
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He is already getting withdrawal symptoms.Perhaps the thought that he might now have time to do a big clean up in the shed!
Don't do it Neil,you won't be able to find anything!
Mick F
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can't find anything now........so it wouldn't be too much of a change, lol %% %% %%........
sad face was because I posted the above with pics twice, dave so removed the post and put a puzzlwed face in it's place.......not glum........just finding little bit that I missed and having to construct them as I go, and this sets back the finishing day.........but when that is, gawd knows...........not too far away though.
neil.
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{-) maybe that's it
Hey Neil if it's a modelling problem - you know you can rely on me to be utterly useless. O0
But for a joke or something to read I'm your man. Here's a nice little article
It mentions the William cantrell Ashley and it's about The Fowler Tractor - two things I have been looking for.
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/utilities/action/act_download.cfm?mediaid=34768&langtoken=eng
Dave
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cross posted there Neil
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Well, I've got over my hissy fit from yesterday.......nothing seemed to go right and I realised that I was not going to get the models finished for a show in two weekend's time which is devoted soley to RNLI and other SAR modelsand I was a little upset.
I started off by making ( or trying to) the wind/spray screens for the three boats.
when I made the Anne Lettitia Russell and ( I think) the Liverpool class boat I made the surrounds to the screens from "U" shaped brass extrusion, and it worked well...........but yesterday, after spending hours cutting, mitreing and then surrounding the screens with the brass.............it looked.................well s****, is the only word I can discribe it with.
So I re cut all the plastic screens, and decided to trim the edges with black vynil sticky tape..........the next disaster.......and by this time I was getting a little persisted off........as the adhesive on the vynil wasn't strong enough to hold the tape to the screen..................
so, I went back to basics, and decided to use my tried and tested double sided sticking tape that I use to stick windows and framed to superstructures.
I stuck this to the adhesive on the sticky back vynil and then stuck the vynil to the screens..........partial success but the tape still was having a tendancy to lift from the screens...........so in the end I put all the screens between two layers of conti boards and stuck 3 large car batteries on top to weigh them down, and brought the whole thing in doors to sit for a couple of days..........hopefully the vynil will get fed up trying to seperate and stay stuck......if not I'll then try the whole thing again but use black paper and double sided tape...........now that whole excercise took me the best part of yesterday without probable success................so you can now imagine why I was fed up last night.
Today have been spraying vents and other little jobs.....but that's another story.
Re the window frames.... have you considered this stuff?
http://www.petersspares.com/cgi/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=copper&search.x=0&search.y=0&PR=-1&TB=A
I was using it the other day to run some discreet lighting wiring on the Girls Dolls house. We run the copper tape up the walls and accross the ceiling as a power bus then wallpapered and painted over the top.
Had me thinking that perhaps you could try it on the window frames.
If it doesnt work, its good to have around the workshop
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hey!.....that looks good essex..................how strong is the stickyness of the stuff..................I think I'll order some of that, and if the stuff I've put on does lift I'll give that a go............at the moment the frames are still under the press of 3 large car batteries.
cheers, neil.
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hey!.....that looks good essex..................how strong is the stickyness of the stuff
Its quite sticky.... so far never had any lift on me and I've used it quite a bit for lighting power inside model railway buildings (plastic and card) and as a lighting bus under the board
Ill be using some do the cabin lighting on my huntsman with a couple of sprung plunger pickups from my train bits box to make a plug free connection on the superstructure
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I'll get some ordered just in case all else fails, %% %%
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like I said if it doesn't work for that I'm sure a man of your calibre will find plenty of other uses for it :)
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I'll use it for taping my gobby daughter's mouth up........save my sanity, lol %% %% %% %% %% %%
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It has come to the stage now where I have only miriads of little jobs to do to the three models..........I had a visit from Glyn and his wife today, and we had a lovely chat about the boat, which included a few bits to re position that were different to those positions shown on plans, and a few bits not shown on plan............in the end, I could fill another page of mayhem with photos of the little bits that I had done..................but I won't..................I'll save the photos for when I have finished the models........hopefully next week and then will post some of the finished boats.........
just save to to say that the list below is of items we discussed today, items I compleated this afternoon, and those items that I need to do to finish the boats.
1) Roller fairlead added to starb side front cockpit
2) voice pipes to fore and aft cabins
3) hand grab rails to top sides of fore cabin
4) hand grab rails to upper aft of rear cabin.
5) Painted helmsmans back rest as discussed.
6) Added engine control to starb side fore cabin false wall.
7) added several buttons and switches to control panel
8) added fire extinguishes to fore and aft cabins.
9) added clock to fore cabin.
10) added loud hailer to aft cabin top.
11) added 4 x search light pedestals to fore and aft cabins and one search light
12) box for line throwing gun painted and fixed to position discussed.
13) oil pump repositioned.
14) axes, hatchets and knives fixed into position.
15) header tank filler caps added to aft cabin top
16) glued rope bins to side "barge boards" ready for fixing to engine casing top.
17) painted mast fittings a second coat of white.
Jobs still to do:
1) make the tiller arm
2) cap for tiller socket
3) Button for Klaxon.
4) binoculars and megaphone.
5) drogue to be made.
6) add the two fenders bnow and stern.
7) tool holder at stern cockpit wall
8) screen wiper for fore cabin. .
9).buffers for wind screens
10) cleats for aft mast .
11) Pullies for radio lines and radio lines
12) .plank the sides of the aft cockpit where it meets the engine casing/barge boards .
13) Paint deck and the vent cowl bases
14) .Glue cowl vents to decks
15) .rig masts
16) rig stanchions
17) top cap for the black conduit up the fore mast.
18) fit the navigation, anchor and steaming lights.
Oh yes, and fit the r/c gear into the boats..........got to find some motors for them yet, and buy some speed controllers.
daren't tell the missud, lol %% %% %% {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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{-) maybe that's it
Hey Neil if it's a modelling problem - you know you can rely on me to be utterly useless. O0
But for a joke or something to read I'm your man. Here's a nice little article
It mentions the William cantrell Ashley and it's about The Fowler Tractor - two things I have been looking for.
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/utilities/action/act_download.cfm?mediaid=34768&langtoken=eng
Dave
Thats a nice little item on the Fowler,and quite a good photo too.Wish I saw it before I made and stuck the number plates on my model,ah well I will take them off and re do them,as I have them all in a straight line,instead of the letters over the top of the numbers.At least I have the correct numberplate ,it being OXO 323, or as I have just found out
OXO
323
Mick F
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Hi Mick - I found that article whilst looking for what you had asked for on the Fowler thread.
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No worries,it was certainly informative for me! I need to know where to get some suitable old fashioned type headlamps now.All I get on my search engine are lights for american police cars etc.I am sure I remember seeing some stainless "conical" shape headlights a few years ago,but cant find anything now.
Sorry Neil, dont mean to hijack your thread.
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no worries............have you tried cutting the ball from an under arm deoderant dispenser in half for your headlamps..............next best thing to Lucas King of the road lamps.
neil.
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No worries,it was certainly informative for me! I need to know where to get some suitable old fashioned type headlamps now.All I get on my search engine are lights for american police cars etc.I am sure I remember seeing some stainless "conical" shape headlights a few years ago,but cant find anything now.
Sorry Neil, dont mean to hijack your thread.
What size do you need?
Having been into RC cars since the 80's I have a somewhat comprehensive "I'll save those as they might come in handy" car bits box
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no worries............have you tried cutting the ball from an under arm deoderant dispenser in half for your headlamps..............next best thing to Lucas King of the road lamps.
neil.
Neil
thats a brilliant idea,had to use my brains to realise you meant a womans roll on and not an aerosol lol
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What size do you need?
Having been into RC cars since the 80's I have a somewhat comprehensive "I'll save those as they might come in handy" car bits box
Hi Essex,
you would probably have them as sidelights rather than headlamps. I would be looking at 10mm at most? it would be a pair if you have them please. those would make the headlamps for me.I have installed a 30mm searchlight,but this is by far overscale,so I am looking for a 20mm version of that.I may try Neils idea of the ball from an underarm deoderant,but have to wait for my missus to use one up!
Mick F
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speaking of soldering brass on Mk1's Mersey build.............I tried soft soldering two cleats for a mast today( thought it would be easier than silver soldering them)........spent half an hour trying to do it. >:-o >:-o...........lost the knack after doinf so much with silver solder................... {:-{ {:-{ {:-{.
then started to clean it up................and Piiiinnngggg!!!..........of it flew from my arthritic fingers into oblivion..... >:-o >:-o >:-o <:( <:( <:( <:(..spent another 30 minutes trying ti find it on the floor in my mess before realising it would be quicker to make another............and silver solder this time.........3 minutes from start to finish.... %% %% %%.......when will I learn........... {-) {-) {-) {-)
more to the point when is this army of modellers decinding on my gaff to clean the place up. <*< <*< {-) {-) {-)
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Name the day big guy - I'm buildin'a real thirst.
Dave
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{-) {-) {-) {-) {-)you can pop up for a brew anytime you want Dave..........kettle is always on.
neil.
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ok,anyone going to the Blackpool Show,in October,and wants to put their names down to do " NEILS UNIFIED TIDY SHED" (NUTS)
PUT YOUR NAME DOWN HERE!
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ok,anyone going to the Blackpool Show,in October,and wants to put their names down to do " NEILS UNIFIED TIDY SHED" (NUTS)
PUT YOUR NAME DOWN HERE!
Guys am leaving now, but if I am a little bit late, don't let me hold you up, so please start without me. %) %) %) {-) {-) {-)
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Guys am leaving now, but if I am a little bit late, don't let me hold you up, so please start without me. %) %) %) {-) {-) {-)
don't forget the Carlton Draught when you come RR..............I don't drink tea or coffee {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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spent another 30 minutes trying ti find it on the floor in my mess before realising it would be quicker to make another
Now having made the second, the first will make an obvious appearance....
Lance
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I really think there must be a fourth dimension where everything goes that you loose in theblink of an eye..........cos I have searched and searched on the floor for it without any succerss..........found other bits and bobs that I have lost in the past............but no cleat........sod's law..........
but more pressing things to do...................I began fitting the stanchions to the boats on mondey morning and started with the "Smuts" because my "Guru" Glyn was paying a call to look at the model..........
Sadly after he and his wife had gone, I was fiddling with other parts of the boat, and on three separate occasions caught the stanchions, that were loosly fitted( and nit glued,) and on each occasion they snapped cleanly in two pieces around the ball..................so, as they are probably the most vulnerable part of the lifeboat, I decided to have a test of them.............and tried snapping one or two more
outof the set of 28 for the Smuts.......21 of them snapped very easily...............the mix of white metal had been too brittle for the stanchions.
I had spent a lot of time on them filling the larger holes in the balls with plastic inserts and had fixed them all to the triangular bracket feet which attach to the toe boards............
and so decided on tuesday night to make a couple of rubber moulds with 6 stanchions in each, and set abouit casting them all in a less brittle mix of white metal and added some lead to give them some resilliance to knocks.
moulds finished in a rush on tuesday night, i fully expected to get about 3 good ones out of the 6 each cast...............I was absolutely amazed when on each succesive cast I got the full complement of 6 stanchions per casting........and had run my account up to over 100 ( spares, just in case, lol) within an hour of casting this morning......was well pleased................have now just to clean them up, drill through the balls for the chain, and dril and pin the triangular bracket for fixing to the toe boards................eazy peezy.
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Wish I had one of those rotary casters...
I completely failed to cast stanchions out of resin (the moulds didn't turn out that good, and the resin was too runny, and just made a mess everywhere) & had to resort to making them out of plastic tube, having to drill & insert the cross tubes where the chain goes through and then sand them to the right shape - took a long and boring time, especially they kept breaking as well.
I'm not looking forward to that job on the next one.
Lance
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best bit of kit I ever bought lance..............if you belong to a club....have a word about buying one through club funds for the good of everyone in the club........it would pay for itself within a couple of seasons.....mind you I do a lot of hand casting in small moulds as well.
neil.
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It's been a long hard slog since last autumn and the three models are nearing completion...............just the stanchions and chains to put on all three boats, and the deck to paint grey on the "Smuts"......she came straight from the builders with the deck painted rather than planked....
I've used a little modellers licence on rigging the aft masts on all three boats, as when I rigged the ALR all those years ago, the mast was not stiff or sturdy enough.........after all we are dealing with modellers materials, and not the real thing............so extra stays were used to keep the mizzen sturdy enough to take the odd knock.
Also the "Smuts" wasn't fitted with cleats on the toe boards as the mast stays were anchored onto the stanchions and chains although I have added them and deck eyes as should the stays have been anchored to the stanchions, the fore cabin would never have been made able to be removeable.......another little bit of modellers licence.............after all............these boats have been made to sail and to be accesible to the inners and the R/C gear..........so, probably the last shots now before completion in a few days..........hope you all like them.
neil.
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ps..........has anyone got a clear colour photo of the right colour for the capock filled lifebelts of the early lifeboats that they might post so that I can colour the belts on these three boats.........cheers.
neil.
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If it helps anyone searching, I believe the life jackets supplied to the Mary Stanford crew were Kapok Type Pattern No. 3
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now!! where did you find that info from Dave.......amazing.
neil.
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http://www.plimsoll.org/resources/SCCLibraries/WreckReports/14034.asp :}
http://sarn.firetrench.com/2012/01/latest-technology-brings-happy-new-gear-at-loch-ness/ 1904 issue jacket
http://www.skeals.co.uk/Articles/SKEALS%20Celebrates%20lifeboat%20bicentenary.html might be the one you want and it is colour?
http://publicsculpturesofsussex.co.uk/object?id=136 is the memorial correct style?
........ still looking
Dave
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:embarrassed: just realised you said 'belts' and I've been looking for jackets {-) {-) {-)
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I'm speachless matey...................still...........some good links just the same.
neil.
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Hi Neil , Watching Dave for some time now I firmly believe that if He can't find it ,it probably does not exist, he is one very helpful Mayhemer & always has good things to say. Your boats are looking better & better every day Neil & I feel launch day is fast approaching,thanks again for all your work & knowledge sharing. Mick B.
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I feel launch day is fast approaching,. Mick B.
It certainly is Mick.
been spraying up all my stanchions this morning with undercoat..........the easy way, lol............not one for doing things one at a time if I can get away with it, %% %% %%
all the stanchions contain a fixing pin made from brass to fix to the toe boards..........so I utilised this by fixing them to a strip of 20mm square scrap via holes..........then just a matter of spraying on mass.
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Good idea :-))
ken
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Ken...................my wife says I'm full of 'em............usually when I'm trying to get out of doing the housework, especially ironing {-) {-) {-) {-)
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These help?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-08I5PvQwFFk/T-hMLukafGI/AAAAAAAAAoY/AHCjtc0nTeI/s640/ch00053.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sM465bfq2S0/T-hMaZj32JI/AAAAAAAAAoo/7dd7oAS1CEs/s512/ch00049a.jpg)
Lance
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Hi Neil , Watching Dave for some time now I firmly believe that if He can't find it ,it probably does not exist, he is one very helpful Mayhemer
Agree :-)) :-)) :-))
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That's a different Mary Stanford, Dave.
Rye Harbour lifeboat 'Mary Stanford' (O.N. 661) capsized with the loss of the whole crew in 1928, Neil' is the Ballycotton boat O.N. 733 from 1930 (although it was probably named after the first one).
The kapok liifejackets changed over the years - your links 2 & 3 are the correct ones I think - the one on the memorial is much earlier.
I think a salt water activated light (or possibly a whistle) hung on the round patch on the front - there's a rubber nipple bonded to the jacket to hook it on to.
Cheers
Lance
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Lance.........would the life belts carried on the tops of the cabins be the same colour as the life jackets, as these were Kapoc filled and covered as well...........I was told by my Guru, Glyn who served on the boat, that they were an orange sort of colour........
cheers,
neil.
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As far as I know, they'd all be the same - They wouldn't have carried many spares, maybe one or two, any others would be the crew ones who hadn't bothered to put them on...
When was he on the boat? he wasn't using this sort was he - in the sixties?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iURiGDBr5Fc/T-h2rgcnyAI/AAAAAAAAAo8/aU3FZTZ7BQM/s512/ch00060a.jpg)
They're not kapok though, closed cell foam as far as I know.
Lance
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That's a different Mary Stanford, Dave.
{-)Thanks Lance - boy can I get things wrong - it never occured to me there could be two O0 Love it.
Dave
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I have just realised that over 20,000 Mayhemmers have looked at this thread! Surely it must be some kind of record? The man deserves a medal.What will Maria do when you are all finished Neil,and you will be spending more time in the house? Ironing,washing up, putting plugs back into their sockets on dishwashers,I bet your life will change forever!
Seriously my friend,I am proud to have made your acquaintance,and appreciate all you do to make our hobby such an interesting subject.
Thanks.
Mick F
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I have been giving it some thought & I am thinking that this build should be considered for our Master Class building section. I wonder what others think & if Martin would be so kind as to inform us if it qualifies for Master Class status or what else it would require to qualify, thank you Martin in advance. Mick B.
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You are so right Mick
but like Neil's shop, this thread needs mucho cleaning up {-)
Parred down to the builds (and with me surgicaly removed) it would be a great resource for everyone
Dave
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As far as I know, they'd all be the same - They wouldn't have carried many spares, maybe one or two, any others would be the crew ones who hadn't bothered to put them on...
When was he on the boat? he wasn't using this sort was he - in the sixties?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iURiGDBr5Fc/T-h2rgcnyAI/AAAAAAAAAo8/aU3FZTZ7BQM/s512/ch00060a.jpg)
They're not kapok though, closed cell foam as far as I know.
Lance
lance...........I think we are talking at cross purposes here..........I meen the life rings........the things on top of the cabin that are round and usually coloured red and white quarters...........with rope attached to them for throwing into the water to casualties to grab hold of..........up't north we call 'em life belts.
sorry for the confusion.
neil.
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...up't north we call 'em life belts.
I don't think you should apologise Neil. I think they call them lifebelts everywhere.....and if they don't, then they're wrong! <*<
-
Ah - gotcha!
We've got a couple, and they are a sort of orangish canvas, more so than the kapok lifejackets above, but not really bright orange - they're not that old though I think.
I can't find any photos though (I'll keep hunting).
Cheers
Lance
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Thanks Lance......those are the ones I think........they were mentioned by Glyn who served on her( Smuts) as did his dad who was coxs'n on her......and he mentioned that they were an orange colour.......dating from the late 50's - 60's.............just a change from the ordinary red and white ones or the later poly orange ones.
neil.
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Do you mean this?
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t492/heritorasphodel/lifering.jpg)
Andrew
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That's the sort of thing (it's actually a breeches buoy, but still...)
Lance
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BRILLIANT, Andrew.,
many thanks...............i'd have painted them red and white, but was told by my guru that they were an orange "sort of colour"from what he remembered from his crewing days on the Smuts.
cheers, and thanks to all who searched.
neil.
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well, bar the shouting, the three lifeboats came to completion late this afternoon.........have just the lifebelts/breeches bouys to rig with their crutch support and ropes and paint tomorrow and add to the cabins and the three boats will be ready for motors and r/c installing and go play with them ( but that'll be after my holidays later in July...as I can't afford to buy 4 speed controllers befor the hols...................I will take them out of the shed tomorrow for some proper pics in the garden, but took these three pics, one of each boat this evening showing the stanchions/chains rigged and the masts too.............I am quite chuffed with them...............
In order of posting they are the Beaumaris lifeboat RNLB Field Marshal and Mr Smuts,
Cromer Lifeboat RNLB H F Bailey,
and
Ballycotton lifeboat RNLB Mary Stanford (GM..the only lifeboat ever to be awarded a Gold medal for herself)
neil.
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I'd be chuffed as well if mine looked half as good as those. :-))
Well done to you. I suppose you are ready to go into business selling the kits now. :}
All the best
ken
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Quite sad that these builds have come to an end.
Absolutely fascinating and thanks for the great details of the builds.
Whats next on the bench?
Dan
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Thanks Kenny.........as for kits.......these were purely an excercise in showing what goes into developing one from start to finish............I had my fill of kit manufacturing in the mid 1990's and far too much stress for me.................I'll pass on all the stuff to Dave and he can do with it what he wants now..........but it has taken him nearly 6 years to develope the Liverpool class lifeboat that I did those years back...........so I wouldn't hold my breath, lol.
Dan............next thing on the bench.................to clean it all up, lol.........
I fancy producing moulds for the Thames Class lifeboat, and may be having a bash at one of those................once I've built a Liverpool class kit.......bit o' kit bashing.nice and easy, lol.
-
What can I add to what others have said,except a big thank you for giving me ideas,and for producing such a detailed account,and then finally,to see the finished superb models.
Have a good holiday my friend,and if you are down this way,you know you and yours are more than welcome.
Mick F
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thanks Mick....................and thanks for the offer............going Scotland way.........perhaps may have a sail on a Clyde Lifeboat if Iain is around.........can live with dreams............hopefully.
neil.
-
Fantastic insight of what goes in to a kit ,it would be a shame if they did not go in to production thanks again Neil have a nice holiday you deserve it after that build
Peter
-
cheers Peter.....................I enjoyed building them,......kept the brain working, lol..................I'll veg out now and enjoy sailing them.
neil.
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It is amazing what transformation a coat of paint and some bits and pieces, (fittings) can achieve. O0 O0 O0
Not knowing anything about 'Lifeboats' it is certainly educational to see the transformation as the build evolved. :-)) :-)) :-))
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All Gold Medal Stuff Neil - 3 at a time too :-))
Also this thread has been just a joy to follow anyway.
How about doing a fun Springer Lifeboat sometime?
Dave
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thanks for the comments guys.........inspirational........and keeps me going.
as to a springer, Dave.....................I honestly can't latterally think that way............some people come up with absolutely corkers of designs for them and I just wonder where they get their ideas from............but I just have no ideas myself..........would take me longer to design a springer on those lines than it would to build a lifeboat from plans from scratch, lol. {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
-
Now on a more serious note , while you are cleaning your shop & going on holiday I will be happy to store all three boats in a nice safe place here in Canada, LOL. I do hope you get put on that Master builders list though, you certainly deserve it. Again thank you for all the insight you have given us all. You are certainly a master builder. I won't discuss here the amount of money you have cost me having me buy two lifeboat kits to build, I did not know one end of a lifeboat from the other until you got me started. I thank you for that too. Have a great holiday Neil you deserve it. Mick B.
-
Don't worry there is still plenty to do fitting the RC lol
-
Now on a more serious note , while you are cleaning your shop & going on holiday I will be happy to store all three boats in a nice safe place here in Canada, LOL.
I'll gladly swap them all Mick, for a NICE TR5/250 or Austin Healey 3litre, lol..........would even crate them up for you. O0 O0 O0 O0
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bummer, BUMMER, BUMMER!!!!!
Just when I thought I had almost finished.............I was clearing all my pots of paint, and fittings etc, ready for the mamoth clean up when I looked and gazed at my models, to see , in horror that thwe plastic vynil that I had wrapped around my windscreens on all three boats............was lifting and curling at the edges like a British Rail egg butty...........and that was after I had had them pressed under weights for about 4 weeks to make sure that they bonded.
Now in an earlier post it was recommended that I get some stick on copperconducting tape as used in model railways, but that would mean buying a roll of god knows how many meters for about 600mm...............so decided that I would paint the "frames" in satin black.
I re cut some windshield to the correct size of the frames on the boats and then masked off using "Frog tape" covering the whole of each shield.....ad then cut around the perimeters and removed that little bit of tape which will be painted on to............hopefully this will work.
and just a word of warning to all modellers out there..............to look after their tools.
Over the last few weeks my ol' faithfull 240-12volt transformer has been flickering and cutting out..................just thought that after 25 years of constant use it was giving up the ghost.
I always have left the power on in my workshop all day long whether I am in or out of the place or even the house, winter and summer.
Yesterday whilst doing my final finishing bits and bobs..........I was working with my dremmel dril and had the transformer just to my side, when I smelt a whisp of burnt electricity...........and out the corner of my eye I saw smoke.............I looked down at the transformer and not smoke, but a small flame was coming from the lead to the plug...........the damn thing was shorting out in a big way......and yet my trip system in the garage to protect from this sort of thing hadn't tripped out and shut the whole place down..............I was lucky..........had I gone out without seeing this, I might not have three lifeboats to talk about now, as grp, timber dust and other flamables don't mix with burning electricity.
I was b***** lucky yesterday, and have learned a valuable lesson.....swith off even if only going for a "p"
-
I think we are all guilty to some degree of leaving things on when we shouldn't.
Lucky escape, :o
Dan
-
Hi Neil
Models look FANTASTIC, as for your transformer check for loose wire in the plug or a broken wire in the flex
Paul
-
th\anks guys.
I took the transformer apart last night Paul............and it was the main power wire to the plug..............over the years it had bent so much that the inner flex had cracked.......crossing the power from live to neutral ( no earth wire in it) and so I replaced the wire to the plug.
cheers, neil. :-))
-
Neil,
Need to get your tripping device checked.
Don't know about UK but In OZ we can manually test our circuit breakers (240V) to ensure they work also you may need to check the rating is not too high.
Like fuses in boat models if too high the appliance will burn out before the circuit breaker trips.
It is compulsory in here in Queensland to also fit an Earth core leakage device which simply put is super sensitive "fuse" and trips the entire system when just a trickle leaks to earth such as in a short. Well worth the money a couple of hundred dollars versus hundreds of thousands for the house etc.
Some tech stuff here http://www.alia.com.au/techtopics/elcb.htm
-
thanks RR............funilly the system tripped the other day when just a starter went in one of my florry lights......when I went to change the starter it broke inside the light and so ( being a prat) I stuck some long nose pliers in to try getting it out..........the system tripped ok then but have learned a valuable lesson and now switch off when I come into the house..........one flick in the kitchen kills the whole place dead.
-
I took two of the boats into the sunlight for the first time a couple of days ago and took some shots of Mary Stanford and Smuts in their finished state, except for putting the lifebelts/breaches bouys on the cabins( forgot)....the sunlight hides the dust.........will wait for a more clemment day to take some of the H F Bailey.
neil.
-
and the last one of that batch
-
Trips are normally earth leakage circuit breakers.
They will trip if there is a short to earth.
They dont see anything wrong with a live neutral
short which you had on your isolating transformer.
Thankfully your wonderful mpdels are still intact.
Ned
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They look fabulous Neil, stunning, can't wait to see them in the flesh.
Dave. :-)) :-)) :-))
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cheers matey......looking forward to getting them down the lake...........going to put the motors and shafts in them tomorrow......now, where's the vaseline, lol %% %% %%
-
Aah Vaseline. Water soluble methinks.
Why then,do we use it to lubricate shafts?
I do and it works. Why doesn't it dissolve?
Ned
-
It is insoluble in water Ned. It is soluble in dichloromethane, chloroform, benzene, diethyl ether, carbon disulfide and oil of turpentine.
Dave
-
I.ve been using it to grease my prop tubes and shafts for years...........and have never had any water ingress what so ever.............so will carry on with that one.
neil.
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So whats the next project?
-
It is insoluble in water Ned. It is soluble in dichloromethane, chloroform, benzene, diethyl ether, carbon disulfide and oil of turpentine.
Dave
I stand corrected Dave.
Just read the Wiki.
There was a topic on the forum some time ago when a couple of the more experienced members stated it was water soluble,
so I took it as read. Just goes to show even the gurus don't get it right all the time. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Ned
-
I am undecided, as yet............am toying with making moulds for the 50' Thames class lifeboat...........I have the plans for that, but it was a bit of an ugly duckling that didn't turn into a beautiful swan, unlike the "Smuts".................but I am hoping that Dave Metcalf will have his Liverpool class lifeboat out by October Blackpool show, and if he has I'll be building one of those from a kit for a change.
-
Hi guys...On the subject of vaseline, I used it for years and then i discovered Carlube aquaslip marine waterproof grease which prevents corrosion from saltwater, which is very handy when on the saltwater Fleetwood lake...trawlerman
-
I'll be round later for some, lol
-
Here it is
http://www.carlube.co.uk/index.cfm?product=109
and some word asociation - Fleetwood - Saltwater - Ribble Fox - Mayhem. I wonder what he did with the tug?
Neil if you ever found time I'd love to see you take on one of those beak bow lifeboats from France 8)
Dave
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ah yes..........forgot about those, Dave......now one of those at 1:12 and I'd have a crack at building.....bit more interesting than the new Shannon class........
any one got a set of plans and some photos to lend??????
-
there is a thread going on by Midori and Xitian answered a question in madboatman's Bourbon Orca thread
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=35108.0
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17422.msg341118#msg341118
Dave
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Triumphant!!!!!!!
took Smutsy down the lake today with just a small 6v battery inside her rather than the heavier12v one that I have earmarked, and although the rudder needs a slight tweek on the servo arm and she's somewhat light on the bow........she sailed beautifully for about half an hour before I brought her in for a check...........bone dry inside...............she's a goodun, and hopefully will give someone a lot of pleasure, O0 O0 O0 O0
Now, does anyone know how to get a video footage from a sim card to youtube.
cheers..............find that proposition much harder and more stressfull than building 3 boats at the same time, lol {-) {-) {-)
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Been down to the lake with you know who to watch him launch the lifeboat . It looked better in the flesh than the photo.s . Well done she,s a beauty....Rod
-
where is the drooling smiley?
(http://www.speedstyleandperformance.com/SSP/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/drool3.gif)
there it is :)
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Needs a crew! :}
( Can I order one of each please? Ah well, I can dream...)
It looks excellent.
Lance
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Must pop down at the weekend and see whats going on!
-
Superb Neil. That penultimate photo looks utterly convincing.
-
Needs a crew! :}
( Can I order one of each please? Ah well, I can dream...)
It looks excellent.
Lance
you can buy these off me Lance, if you've plenty o' dosh,
-
Superb Neil. That penultimate photo looks utterly convincing.
I like the last one Rob......looks as though she's coming home from a service........very nostalgic, thinking back to our own Watson at Fleetwood.
neil.
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I like the last one Rob......looks as though she's coming home from a service........very nostalgic, thinking back to our own Watson at Fleetwood.
neil.
There's something about the water in the second to last....the scale's spot on. All lovely though.
-
Simply.................... GREAT! O0 well done Neil and ten out of ten for an exceptional, honest, and informative build log, it's been rivetting. Take a bow Sir and accept applaud with justification. Regards, Tony. :-))
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thanks Tony..........I'm humbled by those comments.........cheers.
neil.
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Beautiful Neil, it has been quite the experience following the builds. I am sure there are some among us that will suffer withdrawal symptoms now that they are nearly finished. My question now is to Martin, will Neil be considered for a master builders award ?. Mick B.
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My mate finally got the boat onto youtube....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1tQYkx2FU
but gawd knows what went wrong with the video upload.......the boat seams to be made from rubber the way it wobbles around, lol
-
That's cause by the camera refresh rate and low frames per second type of jargon.
Still a lovely boat for all that though. Well done Neil. :-))
ken
-
thanks guys.....kind o' cute, the way it wobbles, lol {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
-
What motors have you got in there Neil?
Lance
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similar to 555's Lance.....but as there are no makers names on them I couldn't tell you what make, sorry.
but on the video they were running on a 6v battery that hadn't been charged for at least 2 years, lol %% %% %%
neil.
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Neil,
absolutely out of this world my friend! It really does look like the real thing! Didn't know Fleetwood Lake could be that calm, never is when I visit!
OGGY OGGY OGGY!
Mick F
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caught it on a very good day Mick.........but as I hadn't even had it in the bath for ballasting, I didn't know whether it'd leak or not so stuck it in the small pool at the top end of the lake.......not as deep to jump in should it have needed recovering, lol {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Its a good job there were no crew aboard they would all look very drunk, lovely boat Neil the biggest problem I can see is it belongs to you not me. Mick B.
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Cash, bankers draft or paypal accepted, Mick........... %% %% %%
-
008jpg I liked the best - nicer contrast
A single man at the wheel might just add something to each boat, but a crew would detract - the boats themselves should be the focus of attention.
................. nah, make it a married man {-).
Dave
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the first day I've had with decent weather lasting long enough to get them all out together and take some photos of them in nice sunlight.........
THE THREE SISTERS TOGETHER.......I think they look well.
looking forward to getting all three of them the lake after my hols together.
Luckily someone who wanted 1st refusal on one of the boats has decided not to proceed as I had put R/C into the boat,thus compromising certain very small points, making it not as accurate as he had wanted......ceste la vie
I'll enjoy sailing them for what they are........lovely model boats that I spent a lot of time, effort and inordinate amounts of patience, building.
neil.
-
Ps anyone got any Electronize speed controllers for sale that have had minimal or no use.matching pairs....preferably 15 0r 30 Hr's or equiv.
cheers.
neil.
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THAT'S A WONDERFUL DISPLAY MY FRIEND !
Sorry ,I cant help with any speed controllers though.
I cannot understand why anyone would turn down the offer of being able to own one of them,any lack of detail due to being radio controlled,must surely be unnoticeable,I am sure,all your followers knowing just what amazing detail you have actually added.I really do hope you will be able to keep all 3 together,and If I do manage to get to the Blackpool Show,see them on the water.
All the best my friend,
Mick F
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Hi Neil, The radio excuse was just that to get out of the sale I think. I would say if you could afford these boats they would be a perfect set to have & display.You never know it is my turn to win the lottery. LOL. Mick B.
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I would love to see you at Blackpool, both Micks..........you could play with one each, lol {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Mick (Irish) would be over the sea wall and heading off for Canada if he ever got his hands one one Neil - don't encourage him.
Dave
-
he could have one, Dave for the right price, lol.......I reckon he's a few old brit classics stashed away over there in the cold lands..........a nice tr250 and I'd do a swap for them lol
-
ATTENTION!!!!!
I HAVE JUST RECEIVED THIS MESSAGE FROM MRS NEIL "HE IS OUT IN HIS WORKSHOP CLEANING UP "
Just when I thought we were going to get some decent weather,now it is going to snow pink!!![/b]
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Hi Neil, I do have a few stashed but you would not want most of them. However I have a very nice TR8 from the last month in which they were made. It needs work but all the running gear is perfect, fuel injected & all. Some paint, A new top, & some door repairs on the right side & away you go. However the cost of shipping would probably break the bank. Remember only 2900 were ever built & only 8 I think were right hand drive, but I stand to be corrected. Mick B. PS = We should have a rescue party at the ready in case Neil gets trapped in the workshop doing his cleanup .
-
This is a message to the Mods & Martin, will you consider if Neil's triple lifeboat build qualifies for the Master builders category, He gets my vote for whatever it is worth. Mick B.
-
Hi Neil, I do have a few stashed but you would not want most of them. However I have a very nice TR8 from the last month in which they were made. It needs work but all the running gear is perfect, fuel injected & all. Some paint, A new top, & some door repairs on the right side & away you go. However the cost of shipping would probably break the bank. Remember only 2900 were ever built & only 8 I think were right hand drive, but I stand to be corrected. Mick B. PS = We should have a rescue party at the ready in case Neil gets trapped in the workshop doing his cleanup .
is it a genuine TR8 Mick, or a TR7 with a v8 mill??.........if a gen TR8 I might be interested????.......depends on how much work there is, as I'm NO metal fabricator!!!
but PLEASE!!! DON'T ring me now............I'm off to bed in a mo..............it's nearly midnight over here, lol
-
It's a genuine original TR8. Don't forget most were made for & shipped to North America. It is gold colored & tan interior, but it does require body repair & a good restoration would do it good. It was driving when I parked it in my shed. Mick B.
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Hi Neil, I do have a few stashed but you would not want most of them. However I have a very nice TR8 from the last month in which they were made. It needs work but all the running gear is perfect, fuel injected & all. Some paint, A new top, & some door repairs on the right side & away you go. However the cost of shipping would probably break the bank. Remember only 2900 were ever built & only 8 I think were right hand drive, but I stand to be corrected. Mick B. PS = We should have a rescue party at the ready in case Neil gets trapped in the workshop doing his cleanup .
You would be suprised how cheap it is to ship cars these days
We shipped my Jaguar XJR from the UK to Finland for less than £500 on a roll on roll off. My dad drove it to the docks and we collected it at the other end. Even with the shipping costs, duties etc and the purchase price (Got a wicked bargain as it was a LHD model in the UK) it cost us less than a third of what the equivalent car would cost in Finland.
Sadly with the current cost of fuel here in Finland she doesn't get used much
When I was looking on importing a Corvette from the US to England it was just over £1000
But then there are the import duties etc
Im not sure what TR8s are fetching in the UK right now
-
Ho dear....just been round to Neils,..The clean up is underway,he gave me some moulds for trawler fittings and having put them in the car I had to sit down to get my breath back I was smothered in sawdust. I am grateful for the moulds but I am not going back in there until he,s finished.....Rod :-)) :-)) {-) {-) {-)
-
but I am not going back in there until he,s finished.....Rod :-)) :-)) {-) {-) {-)
THANK GAWD FOR THAT!!!!!! {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
-
What's the matter with all you blokes over there, :o :o :o if Neil was over here, we would have phoned for an ambulance for him by now O0 O0 O0 %) %) %)
-
Latest News .......Neil is offline due to the fact his computer has gone in to meltdown, he says normal service will be resumed as soon as possible, after he,s had his hand in his pocket....Ho Dear .......ROD <:( <:( <:(
-
hope he checks the plug is in! I remember he bought a new dishwasher, and the only thing wrong with the old one was that the plug had pulled out from the socket!
-
I considered a new dishwasher but decided against it, as generally she as been a good wife
-
Latest News .......Neil is offline due to the fact his computer has gone in to meltdown, he says normal service will be resumed as soon as possible, after he,s had his hand in his pocket.... OH Dear .......ROD <:( <:( <:(
.......He says he might need donations
-
Those are divorce words where I live Dave, all husbands & boyfriends over here must be up to speed on dish washing, bed making & such heavenly work, I on the other hand having failed on all counts has paid the price,& boy did it cost me. Mick B.
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Those are divorce words where I live Dave, all husbands & boyfriends over here must be up to speed on dish washing, bed making & such heavenly work, I on the other hand having failed on all counts has paid the price,& boy did it cost me. Mick B.
Mick,
You could migrate to OZ and reap the benefits such as;
For all of you having a BBQ this weekend..
BBQ RULES We are about to enter the BBQ season. Therefore it is important to
refresh your memory on the etiquette of this sublime outdoor cooking activity. When a man volunteers to do the BBQ the following chain of events are put into motion:
(1) The woman buys the food.
(2) The woman makes the salad, prepares the vegetables
and makes dessert.
(3) The woman prepares the meat for cooking, places it on a tray along with the necessary cooking utensils and sauces, and takes it to the man who is lounging beside the grill - beer in hand.
(4) The woman remains outside the compulsory three metre exclusion zone where the
exuberance of testosterone and other manly bonding activities can take place without the interference of the woman.
Here comes the important part:
(5) THE MAN PLACES THE MEAT ON THE GRILL.
(6) The woman goes inside to organise the plates and cutlery.
(7) The woman comes out to tell the man that the meat is looking great. He thanks her and asks if she will bring another beer while he flips the meat.
Important again:
(8) THE MAN TAKES THE MEAT OFF THE GRILL AND HANDS IT TO THE WOMAN.
(9) The woman prepares the plates, salad, bread, utensils, napkins, sauce and brings them to the table.
(10) After eating, the woman clears the table and does the dishes.
And most important of all:
(11) Everyone PRAISES the MAN and THANKS HIM for his cooking efforts.
(12) The man asks the woman how she enjoyed her 'night off', and, upon seeing her annoyed reaction, concludes that there's just no pleasing some women
O0 O0 O0
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got my new speed controllers today from Electronize......only ordered them yesterday afternoon...brilliant service.
can now get them ALL mobile and sailing........hopefully have some shots and video footage by the weekend..........looking forward to it after so long just languishing there in the workshop, like "nuns in a monastary" {-) {-) %% %% %% {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
-
:embarrassed: three nuns have no bussiness being in a monastery Neil ...... unless you live like a monk?
Dave
-
finally got my new electronize speed controllers into all three boats today....plus the BECC switches, wired up the motors and got all systems up and running........went down to the lake and found this!!!!!
could have found more water in a b***** pot hole.........to say I was disapointed after all my effort........and it was an effort as electrics are just not my forte', is an understatement............ceste la vie.............
always next weekend down at New Brighton!
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Hi Neil, you will be ok next week mate, lot's of water here in new brighton. :-)) :-)) :-))
Regards Dave.
-
we really must put you forward to be co opted in the prestigious and exclusive "blue tac users society" don't forget if it gets wet it loses its stick!
what time does the tide come in Neil?
Mick F
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thanks Dave, you've just woke me up.......I did try staying awake through Easy Rider............but never managed it yet, and been watching it since 1969, lol..............
Gawd what a boring film.
As for the blutack, Mick....you wrong there.....the hotter the motor gets,when labouring to push such a heavy boat around, the stickier the blutack gets and holds the motors........takes care of any water ingress every time....... %% %% %% %% %% {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
I know, I know...... I'm a heathen and a philistine!!............but how cares, only the purists............and it does work, lol O0 O0 O0
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Hi Neil,
The photo of the lack of water in the lake, is that the small lake or the big one? Loved this build log BTW, am truly in awe at you building skills. :-)) :-)) :-))
Mat
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Why do the two motors differ from one to the other?
LB
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Hi Neil,
The photo of the lack of water in the lake, is that the small lake or the big one? Loved this build log BTW, am truly in awe at you building skills. :-)) :-)) :-))
Mat
cheers Mat..............it's the big lake.
-
Why do the two motors differ from one to the other?
LB
hi LB....they were the only two motors I had in stock that would run at the same revs on 12v that were big enough to propell the Barnett's big 51" bulk.............I lookeed for a pair of cheep Buehlers but couldn't find any anywhere.
neil.
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Gawd forgive me, but I'm now on Twitter for my sins, lol
https://twitter.com/boatbuilderNeil
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Dont sell them to a twitter "idiot"
Ned
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Ned.........I don't even know how to use twitter.........my kids are laughing their socks off at the embarrsement that their ol' man has a twitter account, lol {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
-
Neil,
the motor at the bottom of photos 29/30,which I believe is an 805 or 505,I have a spare of,if you would like it,to give you a more matched pair?
Mick F
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Neil,
the motor at the bottom of photos 29/30,which I believe is an 805 or 505,I have a spare of,if you would like it,to give you a more matched pair?
Mick F
Yes please Mick..........I'll swap you for some others when you come up if you'd like.
neil.
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no worries I will bring it up with me
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no worries I will bring it up with me
cheers matey.
neil.
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here we go, all three models on the water together, working under their own power, and finished.
glad I built them all together.........
but would I do it again..................errrr, NO I don't think so.
one at a time from now on, lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PxrVm185l4
neil.
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just goes to show, they look equally as good in or out of the water. proper ansom an all that!
Mick F
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thank you kind sir...........just wondering what to do with em all now, lol..........anyone got a nice classic car they'd like to swap. %% %% %% O0 O0 O0 O0
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They look stunning on the water Mick, wish I'd got a classic car to swap, lol. Thanks Neil for trusting me to take the helm of more of your fleet. Hope to see more Mayhemers up at Blackpool.
Dave. :-))
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you are most welcome Dave.....I'm just sorry the weather wasn't kinder, and we'd have had a little more "sea room" to play with them..........
notoriously they have little rudder travel as real boats, and the handling will always be suspect..............over the next week or so I'll take them down to the big lake at Fleetwood one at a time to put them through their paces.................plenty of room and no other valuable boats to crash into, lol.
I was pleased with them though.
neil.
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You should rightfully be very pleased and proud of them. I think they handled well, the real ones weren't that maneuverable and considering the limited space we had they all did well.
Dave. :-))
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cheers matey.
neil :-)) :-)) :-))
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Quite amazing work and high talent in these three models, I am inspired.
Tim in USA
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Well, it was a long day ago in August that I got to sail my boats for the one and only time this summer......gawd, the weather has been c***........and it didn't help that the lake at Fleetwood has been left half empty all season....the lads with the large schooners have even had some difficulty sailing theirs if their keels were deep ones.........
so it must have become boredom setting in when I put new locks on the kids wendy house and stashed them away for the winter..........I'll bring them out for one last bash at the Blackpool show in October but then away until next year, hopefully for a decent sailing season.............
yes, boredom has set in......still waiting for my plans from NMM and so, today set about cleaning my laithe.......not as concours as HS93, Peters.........but for me it shines like an old penny, lol.........must be boredom, lol
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yipppeeeee......salvation has cast it's wonderful spell.......the idiots at Wyre Borough council have finally got their act together and filled the lake........the fact that the season is almost over and they'll be emptying it again in another month or so for cleaning............but they have filled it..............the sunis almost shining and the weather is wonderfully calm.........so it's off sailing this morning..............hoooorrraaayyyyyyy!!!!
just dont forget the camera, batteries and tx, neil.
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Well, it was a long day ago in August that I got to sail my boats for the one and only time this summer......gawd, the weather has been c***........and it didn't help that the lake at Fleetwood has been left half empty all season....the lads with the large schooners have even had some difficulty sailing theirs if their keels were deep ones.........
so it must have become boredom setting in when I put new locks on the kids wendy house and stashed them away for the winter..........I'll bring them out for one last bash at the Blackpool show in October but then away until next year, hopefully for a decent sailing season.............
yes, boredom has set in......still waiting for my plans from NMM and so, today set about cleaning my laithe.......not as concours as HS93, Peters.........but for me it shines like an old penny, lol.........must be boredom, lol
that looks great , you know it will turn metal as well, Ill not tell the myford Fairy's you let it get dusty (understatement) but with all the work that goes on in your work shop they would let you off, by the way you properly know this but RDG still have some spares if you need them.
Peter
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cheers Peter for the info.
well I had a glorious hour down the lake at Fleetwood today, but it was danged hard to hold the tranny and take footage of the biggest of the three boats both at the same time without getting some blurring................bit like juggling I suppose.....
I took the Mary Stanford down for it's first decent sail since I built it, and enjoyed putting her through her paces in an increasing wind and slight chop..........took some stills and three short videos, but even the longest of the of them at just over 6 minutes long..........will take 288 minutes to download to youtube........why so long, so will post those for anyone interested tomorrow.....might even get my second boat down the lake if the weather is decent.
but for now........proof that the boat did sail.
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Great photos Neil,looks almost like the real thing.
The amount of torrential rain we have had down here at Poole today would have filled your lake to overflowing.I have hardly ventured outside the motorhome! We are going to stay another day,so hopefully it will only be showers tomorrow. I just posted a couple of Photos re Thomas Kirk Wright,on here, and a couple of the Shannon as well but dont worry, when I get back I will send you hi quality ones.
Cheers,
Mick F
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cheers matey......look forward to seeing them.
neil.
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The Ghost of an Old Lifeboat Man strikes again! That's the only problem with old boats like these - they somehow don't look right on the water without a crew, or at least a cox. But very well done mate, she looks excellent.
Andrew
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after 6 attempts and a total of 1250 minutes downloading time, I was able to finally get my 6 minute video of the Mary Stanford finally uploadted to Youtube..........the other two 1.5 minute videos seamed to be a breeze after that, lol.
what is wrong with youtube or does it always take that long to upload videos??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BhFWiQspbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUE6G54GxV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPGqapDrm8
hope you like them above the wind noise ( the wind noise suppress was set on the camera by the way!)
neil.
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Very impressive and stable at sea Neil. Lovely films. :-))
Do you not run the films through a Movie maker type of program first. This would mean editing odd noises out and also has the advantage of compressing the film to a more digital format, and you can add music or commentary.
Cheers
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you are speaking alien talk again Kenny...................I wouldn't have a clue how to do that ......sorry........but I am a total technophobe.
was watching New Tricks last night, one of my all time favorite progs........and there was a guy on there as a former Hacker...........the only thing I understood on the prog was that Brian's misses had made cottage pie for tea %% %% %%
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:}
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It perplexes me when you have spent so much time on a model, some spiv comes along and wants to insult you by making a ridiculous offer for your hard graft........
I have had my models on Quinton nelson's site for a short while...........if they sell for the extortionate amount I would like, so be it...........if they don't, then I can always sail them next summer if there is a day of decent weather and sunshine, lol................
and so , although I've had a few people ringing up ( only interested in being nosey and not really interested in buying ) wanting to know the price.......
I have been able to weed them out from genuine buyers............and have been thinking of a way of rebuffing these oiks...................
well tonight I got my chance and it was a classic........
the brief conversation whilst wallowing in my bath went like this.........
"Hello.........seen your models on the Nelson's boat site............what's the lowest you'll take for them"
"I'll take the equivalent of 3000 hours of your hourly wage" say's I.
"I'm a merchant banker......I earn three 'undrid kay a year"...........say's he in a raised mocking tone.
"Oh!!" says I......"Well, in that case seeing as you've screwed me for the last few years, make it six thousand hours"
Strangely the phone went dead at that point and started buzzing in my ear.........can't think what I said to upset him, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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It perplexes me when you have spent so much time on a model, some spiv comes along and wants to insult you by making a ridiculous offer for your hard graft........
I have had my models on Quinton nelson's site for a short while...........if they sell for the extortionate amount I would like, so be it...........if they don't, then I can always sail them next summer if there is a day of decent weather and sunshine, lol................
and so , although I've had a few people ringing up ( only interested in being nosey and not really interested in buying ) wanting to know the price.......
I have been able to weed them out from genuine buyers............and have been thinking of a way of rebuffing these oiks...................
well tonight I got my chance and it was a classic........
the brief conversation whilst wallowing in my bath went like this.........
"Hello.........seen your models on the Nelson's boat site............what's the lowest you'll take for them"
"I'll take the equivalent of 3000 hours of your hourly wage" say's I.
"I'm a merchant banker......I earn three 'undrid kay a year"...........say's he in a raised mocking tone.
"Oh!!" says I......"Well, in that case seeing as you've screwed me for the last few years, make it six thousand hours"
Strangely the phone went dead at that point and started buzzing in my ear.........can't think what I said to upset him, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
{-) Nicely done :-))
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ouch... I'd love one of your models... but I can't afford £20,000
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that price is only for merchant bankers, spongie........ %% %% %% %% %% {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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:-)) :-)) :-))
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The real price is 19,995 O0 O0 now that there is that magic nine in the price tag they will now sell O0 O0 {-) {-)
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There is a reason for the magic 9, and it ain't what most people think.
e.g. 19.99.
It's not so the missus can spend 20 knicker on a posh frock and tell the ol' man it was only 19 quid.
The reason for nn.99 or in the old days 1/19s/6d
If the item is a nice round number the customers would often tender the correct amount, and casually walk away, without a receipt.
Some sales people would then not ring the money into the till, pocket the cash, and no-one (least of all the shop owner) would be any wiser.
But customers will wait for their change, and so the sale has to be rung up on the till.
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As an addendum to the build, I have been asked by a favourite of some, a well known kit manufacturer to produce GA working plans and timber templates for the 51' Barnett, RNLB Mary Stanford and the 46' Watson class H F Bailey so that he can produce and sell "Semi Kits" of the two different boats in the future ( hopefully in the next 18 months).
I will also be burning the photos of my build onto dvd for help for the prospective builder and the masters of the sets of fittings that I used for each boat will be also available along with the generic fittings used from other boats.
So in all, although NO instructions will be available, the semi kits will contain hull/superstructures, fittings, plans to full size and template of timbers to build the decks inner cabins etc plus dvd picture manual of build process from start to finish.
I'm glad that they will be available at some stage for lifeboat model enthusiasts to build, and hopefully make a cleaner job of them that I did..............a lasting legacy , that I feel proud of.
Now, back to the drawing board...............he wants the plans in time for the Blackpool show..........no rest for the wicked, {-) {-) {-)
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Some people do not appriciate(cant spell) the build of your lifeboats,and as you say even if you only charge £1 an hour, how many hours have you put in,we all want things for nothing.I might wheel & deal ,but could not even put a price on any of your lifeboats,and also would not want to insult your inteligence by offering silly money.All i can say is keep up the good work as a lot of people have learnt a thing or two with your builds.Martin
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hi Mods...........can any of you tell me where all my photos have gone from much of this thread.
just recommended that a guy read it who is interested in seeing how one makes a model and tons of the photos are just blank and marked with a little x in a square in the top left of picture space.
cheers.
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Yes went back and checked also got the same problem, no photos.
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thought it was just me loosing it, lol %% %%
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Just went back and checked.
The photos are still there, just haven't loaded on your machine, as I clicked on the title at the bottom of each and they are opened
cheers
vnkiwi
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Neil,
just checked back pages and all photos there on my pooter?
Mick F
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Neil.......I went back to early 2012....hundreds of images but no X's .......Derek {-)
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I must be loosing it.......most have now re appeared, and as Derek says, click the bottom and those that haven't now appear.........cheers,
neil.
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I must be loosing it.......most have now re appeared, and as Derek says, click the bottom and those that haven't now appear.........cheers,
neil.
Never had to do that before {:-{ {:-{ {:-{ ah the joys of technology <*< <*<
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..... :o .... "and as Derek says, click the bottom and those that haven't now appear" .......you are loosing it Neil %% .........those were the :-)) words of vnkiwi.......
I did not need to click anything.......all of your thread images opened automatically page after page....... Derek ..... {-)
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It still doesn't answer the question why some photos are visible and some are not but will then show by clicking on the name of the photo which then opens in a separate window on my PC and not part of the thread.
Never had to do that before >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
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auto-update for windows??????????????
ok2
>>:-( %)
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Nah must be something else as not all the images are affected. {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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Mystery to me too Raaarty!! {-) {-) {-) {-)
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hi,
just to add, that my computer is only showing some pic and x on others, click bottom then they show %% %% %% %% must be something causing this but what. spoils the read when you keep clicking on all pics
david
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Nah must be something else as not all the images are affected. (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/undecided1.gif) (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/undecided1.gif) (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/Smileys/Tug/undecided1.gif) Don't agree, as the only thing windows has done consistantly is be inconsistant. If it happened to all pic's, then I'd look elseware ;) %) :-))
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Don't disagree about windows, but why has it happened now, namely can't see some the images if it was windows would not all of the images be treated alike, namely can't see them at all.
Logic says, shouldn't apply logic, that something else is amiss.
PS, My XP Pro is updated and showed all imges during this build which I followed daily now......................... >>:-( >>:-(
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I AM SHOUTING WITH HAPPINESS!!!!!! O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
One of my lifeboats in this build, the Mary Stanford is based on the most famous ( IMHO) lifeboat ever to serve with the RNLI......she is the ONLY lifeboat ever to have been awarded a gold medal for her rescue of the Daunt Rock Lightship crew in 1936, and has been languishing and rotting away in Dublin Grand canal basin for years.
A trust was set up in October to raise money and save er from being scrapped.
THEY HAVE DONE IT...........THEY HAVE RAISED THE MONEY TO INITIALLY SAVE HER.
The power of the people over beurocracy has won, and she will shortly be on her way to her spiritual home...BALLYCOTTON.
WELL DONE.....BRILLIANT. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
I hope to go over to see her whilst on a special mission to Ballycotton in the spring.
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Thank gawd for that. She's in a dreadful state now, I hope they can still save her, it's going to take a fair amount of money.
Lance
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It'll be worth it Lance.......... O0 O0 O0
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Hello furball,
I've just remembered that neil received these photos from a friend in Ballycotton, who now owns the model of Mary Stanford and thought those who followed his build some years ago might be interested in the pictures of the real vessel, well on the way to full restoration in Ballycotton.
I thought the second photograph with the vessel lit up by the Milky Way is particularly beautiful. With thanks to Ronan McLaughlin for the reproduction of the second photograph.
Jim.
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That's a beautiful photograph Jim - thank you for putting it up. :-)
Regards,
Ray.