Model Boat Mayhem

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: dave301bounty on January 12, 2012, 06:08:40 PM

Title: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: dave301bounty on January 12, 2012, 06:08:40 PM
Totally new to this ,Ive got a hull , just basic ,bought a acrylic tube  for the electrics ,now I am stuck ,as I have no Idea where to go ,inside the hull is the makers name and they have been bought out , so can anyone help me as to what happens next ,really at a loss ,can manage a yacht easy ,but this is a compleatly new and looks interesting  by what ive seen on this site ,so please can someone help and point me in the right place .thanks in anticipation,Dave .
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: batfish on January 12, 2012, 11:07:26 PM
Models by design now produce the old Darnell hulls.

Also if you read through the thread, Otw vanguard build .There is alot of info regarding where you go, Designning and creating an Rc module.

I'm sure the chaps will help you out if stuck.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Davy1 on January 13, 2012, 08:36:36 AM
Welcome to a fascinating (and sometimes frustrating!) branch of the model world.
Hope this link and Mark can help you on your way:
http://associationofmodelsubmariners.com/can-i-build-a-working-model-submarine.php

David
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: dave301bounty on January 13, 2012, 09:56:46 AM
 Friday  the 13 th  and I dont go out ,so on this early . Well thanks for the replys  but I am in the dark ,,ive got this acrilic tube ,it fits the gear that came with the hull ,so that I assume is the start for a water tight compartment to hold the electrics etc , then do I have to use the same ,only blank off to use a ballast system ,like to pump water into /out of tube ,what i need to help me ,can anyone give us /send us ,some of the drawings that are for beggineers as I really am ,not kidding ,clueless ,the list of things I can fix /repair is big but this is a very different item .the pics ive seen of what you guys are into ,VERY professional .,could be M O D for all I know . thanks in anticipation,Dave .
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 13, 2012, 10:11:31 AM
Hi Dave,

Best place for you is the AMS forum and the website...

www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com (http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com) for the forum.... www.associationofmodelsubmariners.com (http://www.associationofmodelsubmariners.com) ...for the website.

Have a good look around, join the forum (it's free and you don't really need to join the AMS) and then ask your questions on there. There's guys there that have built nothing but subs for donkeys years, and have made all the mistakes there are to make...including me. I can make mistakes like you wouldn't believe...

There's plenty of pictures on both the website and the forum detailing what you need to know...anything else, then please don't be afraid to ask.



Rich


Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: dave301bounty on January 13, 2012, 10:23:08 AM
Rich ,Thanks f,that  but these web sites ,and their loggin in  and trying to do all these passwords etc ,really gets to me ,can i use the same as on here .Dave
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 13, 2012, 10:28:56 AM
Of course you can mate, you can view the website without the need for passwords, etc...the forum you can use the same username and password as you do on here.



Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 13, 2012, 10:45:14 AM
Unfortunately there are few plans as such out there for r/c model submarines, and none that I know of for your boat. Most submarine modellers that scratchbuild tend to work from the drawings used for the fullsize counterparts.

A Canadian modeller, called Greg Sharpe, produced a set of drawings for a generic WTC/cylinder /dive module. The design was based on a gas ballast system, which could be adapted for different boats, but it would require modification of the basic design for a Type VII. I'm not sure about the current availability of these plans to be honest as his website is now inactive.

Also the old nexus plans are still published and available at myhobbystore- http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/browser/117/submarine

I don't think any of those will be much assistance to you for a Type VII conversion though.

There are some excellent publications by Traplet for submarines-

http://shop.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=292

http://shop.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=2634

http://shop.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=295

http://shop.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=294

The last book will probably scare you half to death when you start reading it, as there are a lot of mathematical equations, and it does assume a certain amount of engineering knowledge. Nevertheless, it is an excellent reference.

Another chap on here, nom de plume 'flying sparks' is converting an old Darnell U47 with his own dive module, and is using a Engel piston tank for the ballast system. Not sure about current progress, perhaps you can share notes.

Finally, have you considered cutting your teeth on something smaller and simpler? A dynamic diving boat perhaps, which will teach you about sealing the boat reliably, both hatches and shafts etc.

Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: batfish on January 13, 2012, 12:22:04 PM
Of Course you could possibly ask Chris Cloke from sheerline model submarine's if he would produce a Wtc for you.
If Memory serves he did a Type 7 around same size as the old Darnell you have at present.

Send him an email or Possibly Pm him on here, User name is Sheerline.

http://sheerlinemodelsubmarines.com/

Chris is a really nice guy to talk to and he's also a modeller himself so wont mess you about and he comes up with some cracking ideas.

regards
adam
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 13, 2012, 01:22:15 PM
When Sheerline was Eden models under Dennis Cater, he used to advertise the dive modules separately.

There is anther outfit called A1 down under models who I've seen in the model press, but they don't seem to have any presence on t'internet.

Other producers of larger dive modules  suitable for a Darnell Type VII are OTW, Ron Perrott and Caswell (U.S based).

Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 13, 2012, 03:14:00 PM
Or you could always make your own wtc Dave...be a lot cheaper. Mark at MMB will make you up the required end caps, and you can soon knock up a equipment tray out of styrene sheet. Use a centre placed bag for a ballast tank, car windscreen washer pump to fill/empty it with water (same principle as my Neptune uses, and that works a treat) and you're well on the way to building a ballast system.


Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: dave301bounty on January 13, 2012, 03:45:44 PM
Well so far so good ,have taken a lot in ,did,nt know help was so easy to get .who is mmb must try to get the end caps and a base plate or what ever ,,,very bafling ,but i have bought a second hand book will be waiting for that ,,does everyone  go thro this zone of being helpless ?  just surprised that there ,aint much in the second hand game ,early days or what ,..
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 13, 2012, 04:05:21 PM
Dave, MMB is the mighty Mark's Model Bits...he makes bl00dy good end caps. So does my old mate Paul (Turbulent on here)...Mark makes resin caps, Paul makes turned plexiglass ones...yer pays yer money, yer takes yer choice.

An equipment tray is what it says it is...basically a styrene tray that runs through the WTC onto which the radio gear/motor/etc is mounted on. You can use styrene, perspex, even wood...it doesn't really matter.

And yes, we all go through the helpless stage...I was lucky when I started building subs, the late great Bernie Wood became my mentor, he showed me  the basics, how to do this and that, and gave me a good grounding in the hobby.

People will tell you you need vast amounts of equipment to build a working sub...rubbish, I say. My boats are built on an old school desk in my bedroom with the bare minimum of tools...if you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.


Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: salmon on January 13, 2012, 04:23:06 PM
Rich,
Can I use this as my tag line? "if you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub"
I love it! and it is true....
Tom
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 13, 2012, 04:25:48 PM
By all means, Tom...Bernie came out with that one day whilst we were discussing something over a pint or six. As you do...



Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: thegrimreaper on January 13, 2012, 04:42:00 PM
@ dave301bounty your only in Liverpool dave if your interested we could arrange to meet up at new brighton in the weeks to come I live in Ellesmere Port could bring along my Akula for you to look at and also my new WTC that I am building and altering as I go (made it to small didnt I) give us a shout on here or PM me if you like

Regards Mark
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 13, 2012, 04:59:48 PM
what was too small, Mark?
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: thegrimreaper on January 13, 2012, 05:26:03 PM
the first section of the WTC for the pump and radio gear was a hell of a tight squeeze sooooo I recut the rack and used a bigger piece of tube looks a bit better now not so cramped in their picture will be up on the topic a bit later on. got to resource some slides for the rack unforunatly B & Q out of stock of the 6mm section I need ahh well.

Regards Mark
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 13, 2012, 05:45:59 PM
You could have mounted the pump vertically, with the gears pointing downwards- that helps it self-prime.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: batfish on January 13, 2012, 05:51:45 PM
Hi Dave,

Regarding tech racks / Rc gear mounting plate.

Try these guys for pvc sheet, resonable prices and good service.
http://www.directplasticsonline.co.uk/PVCSheet

As the man above said Endcaps, http://marksmodelbits.com/ ... They are good price wise.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: salmon on January 13, 2012, 09:47:13 PM
What was Greg Sharpe's website? There is a site called waybackmachine http://www.archive.org/web/web.php (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php) it may have captured his site.
Peace,
Tom
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 13, 2012, 09:54:18 PM
From my mark one memory bank-  http://www.deepseadesigns.net

The plans were also published in back issues of the Sub Committee Report, unfortunately I can't remember which issue, it was several years ago.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: salmon on January 17, 2012, 11:43:46 PM
Unfortunately, it did not pull up any info on it.......
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: kazzer on January 19, 2012, 01:16:35 PM
If you haven't figured out the  WTC yet, look at this for an option.
http://www.caswellplating.com/models/sub-drivers.html
SDK352 Sub-driver 3.5"/2 KIT Generic (Includes 2 motors, 1 servo, gas saver) Snort ready
   
Download this file   - http://www.google.com/url?q=http://support.caswellplating.com/index.php%3F/Knowledgebase/Article/GetAttachment/228/131&sa=U&ei=OxcYT836Cc-Jtwe5iai-Cw&ved=0CAYQFjAB&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHLmezNhGy813Hon962TfybUKr3pQ
The Motor bulkhead is assembled with suppressed motors, the equipment try is there, Snort ready (just put the pump in), motors geared downm gas back-up, blow/vent valves etc.

This will save you hours and hours of fiddling and messing, and you probably have enough to do just building the model.


 


Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: BrianB6 on January 24, 2012, 01:52:50 PM
Is there a UK Seller for Caswell Plating Sub Parts, or only US.

Regards

Nexus6
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 24, 2012, 07:14:19 PM
There isn't a UK outlet, you have to order from the States.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: BrianB6 on January 25, 2012, 02:47:35 PM
Thanks Subculture, the Europe Reseller I found was only for the plating side of the business.

Nexus6
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: salmon on January 26, 2012, 05:22:55 PM
Contact Mike directly, he can get you set up. I remember a post about overseas and Canadian sales needing to arrange directly with him.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: andyn on January 26, 2012, 07:20:33 PM
Right then Dave, the first thing you need to do is to forget EVERYTHING that has been said so far in this thread and email my personal address, which I will pm to you now.

To everyone in this thread, Dave bought the sub off me and most of the bits he needs to make a wtc for it I included in the sale, including motors, shafts, props, end caps and all he need to do to it is fit batteries and sort out the electronics and some plates to mount everything on.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Davy1 on January 27, 2012, 01:14:53 PM
A good point, Mark.

It is always worth starting with your original supplier, if you are having problems.

David
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: andyn on January 28, 2012, 11:45:29 AM
,ive got this acrilic tube ,it fits the gear that came with the hull ,so that I assume is the start for a water tight compartment to hold the electrics etc

Before you can give the right answers, first you must read what has been said and then ask the right questions. Flooding Dave with a load of suggestions saying he needs to spend several hundred pounds with Sheerline or Caswell doesn't really help if he says he's got a load of it already.

What also doesn't help is something that it is against the forum rules,
Quote
Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum.
You are perfectly capable of providing answers on here without trying to draw people away to your own forum.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 28, 2012, 05:25:28 PM
To be fair here, the original description was rather spartan to say the least- i.e. got a hull and an acrylic tube, but not a clue what to to do with them- yikes! Posting a picture or two would have helped enormously.

Most people entering this hobby these days start off with a kit. There is a lot to take in with submarines, you never really stop learning and those who decide to take the hard road by scratch-building often throw the towel in a few months down the line having found things more difficult than first envisaged.

On the other hand, some people- annoyingly- manage to pull it off, and get a boat working very well from the start.

Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 28, 2012, 06:18:48 PM
Before you can give the right answers, first you must read what has been said and then ask the right questions. Flooding Dave with a load of suggestions saying he needs to spend several hundred pounds with Sheerline or Caswell doesn't really help if he says he's got a load of it already.

What also doesn't help is something that it is against the forum rules,  You are perfectly capable of providing answers on here without trying to draw people away to your own forum.


Have I missed something here?  Who is the mystery person?


Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: batfish on January 28, 2012, 08:00:33 PM
Andy,

I think you need to read the complete post again!!!

No one said he should buy either from sheerline or from caswell, They where mearly suggestions.
Brought up by folks on hear whom have an interest in model submarine's and who have researched the hobby,

And telling the chap to msg yourself and forget everything thats been mentioned so far,
Well some of the info listed gives him an insight as to what is avaliable either commercially or by producing himself.

Going by your comments above> If you sold him the Sub why did you not offer to give your wisdom sooner rather than him posting here.


 
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: salmon on January 29, 2012, 01:07:35 AM
I must admit, I do get confused at what point something is advertising or not (not really, I know the difference). I could take this posting, quoted here, as advertising and pulling someone away from this site:
Right then Dave, the first thing you need to do is to forget EVERYTHING that has been said so far in this thread and email my personal address, which I will pm to you now.

To everyone in this thread, Dave bought the sub off me and most of the bits he needs to make a wtc for it I included in the sale, including motors, shafts, props, end caps and all he need to do to it is fit batteries and sort out the electronics and some plates to mount everything on.
Then again, why not post the solutions here so we all can learn?
I know that there is a poster that owns a company that sells WTCs, does that invalidate his suggestion? I own one of his wtc and will say it is a thing of beauty, but that is not advertising. It is offering my positive experience with his products.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: andyn on January 29, 2012, 03:11:23 PM
If you sold him the Sub why did you not offer to give your wisdom sooner rather than him posting here.

I have done, both by Pm in the past and when he bought it off me.

Suit yourselves.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Netleyned on January 29, 2012, 03:25:02 PM


Suit yourselves.
[/quote]


Heard that before somewhere O0 O0 O0

Ned
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 29, 2012, 03:42:53 PM
It's all good fun, this lark...I'm glad I had a teacher who actually knew what he what he was talking about.



Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: dave301bounty on January 29, 2012, 05:27:02 PM
Can I ,  seeing it was myself who is a compleat novice to the world of submarines ..say that ,I did indeed buy the hull and the electrics from Andy ,after he had put it on this site ,I bought the item ,and he said he was going to Blackpool .Myself ,to Honour the the buying of ,paid the cash and that was that .Now some time later I have had a look at the Submarine site that is going on Mayhem ,got interested ,seeing that I had bought this ,what I have ,and have asked on site how / what do I do next ,but I had seen someone has got a accrilic tube ,so I sent away ,got the thing and every thing looks good ,but have put it on the back burner ,because  there is more to this than I can digest instantly ,so there you have it .Now Today I see that its getting a bit  what can I say ,?niggly as to who said what ,well  people please dont ,I wont be riding the waves for a long time ,ha ha ,riding ,,cos I have a few more important things have surfaced ,ha ha ,surfaced .thanks for all who have pointed me to the help section I will pick it up in due course ,there is another pun ,  Sub,s are fasinating ,and to see what you guys have done ,amazing  ,,so she is sitting at the back ,not doing any harm .thanks Dave .
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: BrianB6 on January 30, 2012, 01:48:10 PM
In reference to an earlier post regarding Caswell, has anyone used: Taken from Model Boat Magazine.

A1 Down Under Models, had their new submarine diving system which is essentially a precision engineered Perspex tube incorporating a ballast system with compartments for housing batteries, r/c and a sealed linkage system. Think they had a UK seller at one point


Regards

Nick
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 30, 2012, 03:26:56 PM
I believe they're UK based, but they don't appear to have any web presence, which is a rarity these days.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 30, 2012, 03:28:05 PM
I've only ever seen their stuff in magazines, Nick...although they did have a stand at a show that the AMS attended, up North somewhere it was. Their cylinders were reported as looking pretty good and well made, but since then I've heard no more.

I tried my hardest and couldn't locate a website, and the email address I was given was incorrect...



Rich
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: BrianB6 on January 30, 2012, 03:41:49 PM
Cheers Gents, the article was dated 2008 so it seems outdated. I think I will go with Caswell, just need it to fit into an Engel - George Washington.

Nick
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Patrick Henry on January 30, 2012, 04:31:35 PM
Nice boat...don't forget some pics!
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Davy1 on January 30, 2012, 04:38:14 PM
I had  a  chat with A1 etc at Blackpool.

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t578-blackpool-model-boat-show?highlight=Blackpool

He had not sorted out his web presence then because he was busy  and didn't want to oversell himself.

No bad thing to support  a UK supplier not least because US suppliers have rather unique dive systems.

I have no commercial interest and have never bought anything from them but they are worth putting on the list, I would think.

David
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 30, 2012, 10:33:43 PM
That's a shame- it seems unless you're fortunate enough to visit a show where they have a stand, A1 downunder are destined to remain a bit of an enigma.

The U.S modellers tend to trim their boats slightly positive and then drive them under- colloquially known as the 'chicken trim'. Somewhat different style to many UK modellers who like to trim negative and hover their boats at depth.  The ballast systems employed tend to work with a tank completely full or completely empty, and gas or low pressure air pump systems are favoured over water pump and piston tank systems.
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Davy1 on January 31, 2012, 12:58:49 PM
Jolly good.

"Unique" I was thinking about gas, I suppose.

I didn't know you had been to the States, Andy?

David
Title: Re: Darnell Type 7 .
Post by: Subculture on January 31, 2012, 07:58:34 PM
I haven't, but have read enough sub regatta reports from over the pond to see what the dominant system is.