Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: catengineman on January 22, 2012, 08:05:50 pm
-
So I have started the build of my twin VS drive tug, it will deviate from the kit slightly.
It is from the Graupner Parat kit and although I am using the hull and most of the superstructure I will deviate to change things to how I feel I want the vessel to look.
here are the first few images of the build along with reasons for MY choice of construction where I am open to ideas for some changes.
I had intended using one 12 volt battery to supply all the internal electrics but at this time there is a question regarding dropping the voltage down to 6 volt for the water pump and the other units I had intended to have installed
"A big thank you to Dave at Action for his assistance so far"
-
what will the servo activated switches do?
-
I built one of these tugs before, so the switches will give independent control of the drives from one supply
IF one unit is jammed then the tug will become erratic in control so by turning off one motor it is possible to recover the tug via the one remaining drive unit (tried and tested this so I know it works)
to find out which drive is causing erratic use is easy, if the Port drive is stuck then the other drive naturally turns the craft to Port and vise verso so you can then turn off that Port motor and use the Stbd one to bring the tug back to a safe haven of your choice.
-
Interesting - never thought of that - those units could suck branches/crap into them and jamb.
-
Hello
I have some VS tugs and I never experienced a problem on one propeller requesting to use only the other one ... Anyway it could be a good idea - that need one channel... with allready 4 needed for the two VS !!
Why you fill some part of the hull with a kind of red resin ?
Xtian
-
PS : one of my VS is that one http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33376.0
-
Started it at last then Burt !!! :-))
-
It must be quite unnerving to cut such big holes in the bottom of a brand new hull!
-
No, the drives seal those holes quite nicely.
I like the sea-chest intake for the pump Ian.
:-))
-
Started it at last then Burt !!! :-))
Yes ! but cant remember how much lead was put into venture?
Was going to use one 12 volt battery but have come unstuck with dropping voltage to 6 volt for pumps and winches so have had to remove battery base and grind out some lead ingots because the weight will be different now and it was perfect in the bath for trim <:(
Oh well such is life the next thing would be to kill myself so you get to have all my "toys"
IN YOUR DREAMS :}
-
Interesting - never thought of that - those units could suck branches/'rubbish' into them and jamb.
I have sailed in some waters where there is a lot of weed like strings and the action of the VS running all the time even on zero thrust winds up those strings very quickly.
turning off the drive sometimes allows the obstruction to "drop" off but if it does not then you will have a little bit of a problem. (expensive one to boot)
-
Hello
I have some VS tugs and I never experienced a problem on one propeller requesting to use only the other one ... Anyway it could be a good idea - that need one channel... with allready 4 needed for the two VS !!
Why you fill some part of the hull with a kind of red resin ?
Xtian
Your correct in saying it is resin, there are two reasons for my choice in using this
1 It fills and bonds ALL the penetrations in the bottom of the hull, when I first built this model (Venture [see capt jack's avatar]) I noticed that the drive could flex the ABS hull so I used the resin to beef up the strength.
2 It bonds the ballast lead to the hull so that it can not move, this type of tug is VERY lively and suffered a few hard knocks until operations were learnt (very different to that of std screws or even ASD's)
-
It must be quite unnerving to cut such big holes in the bottom of a brand new hull!
In a word YES
yes
-
We didnt put any lead in the Venture as I recall, sat just right with the batteries ???
-
was it two 12 volt or ?
I have a blank plank moment regarding what went in where?
-
Two 12's I think and that was just right from what I can remember. Sure we never put any lead in it
-
Two 12 v are heavier than the single one I was going to use and have three ingots of lead in the centre which put it down to the perfect water line.
(thats with all the plastics and the other fittings piled up on top of the hull in about the right places.
(std test sail for me)
-
Two 12 v are heavier than the single one I was going to use and have three ingots of lead in the centre which put it down to the perfect water line.
(thats with all the plastics and the other fittings piled up on top of the hull in about the right places.
(std test sail for me)
Oh, not a 9 volt battery, bit of string and throw in the lake 3 days after starting it then !!!!. Anyway dont mess up the build of my new tug :}
-
3 DAYS !!!!
I've had this since Christmas :((
Hey that was then this is now ! did it all in a sort of professional way, blue tack all the abs parts in a sort of tugy shape then fit VS drives and the BIG 12 v battery. Tie a length of line to the hull and float it far enough away to see trim
pull it in and move stuff about a little then out to view (did not power up VS this time)
-
Ah, memories !!. Well hurry up and finish it so I can pay my bill !!!!!!!!!
-
This was my take on a Parat kit when they first came out, she moved to the midlands where she was used a heck of a lot for towing and I think now she has moved abroad (not quite sure ) Poll could tell us more. pictures from Poll.
-
Very nice build there sir.
I am also veering away from a direct build though not of any particular tug in mind just so that I can have my own version of what I want
have spent the day putting the winches and gog eye together though again I am not fixed on using them in this vessel just yet there are a lot of changes to be made and even more now that I am altering the main drive motor battery size to a smaller capacity one <:(
-
Very nice build there sir.
I am also veering away from a direct build though not of any particular tug in mind just so that I can have my own version of what I want
have spent the day putting the winches and gog eye together though again I am not fixed on using them in this vessel just yet there are a lot of changes to be made and even more now that I am altering the main drive motor battery size to a smaller capacity one <:(
Well get on with it !!!!!!
-
I'll send sgt major and or J P round to haunt you :embarrassed:
-
When you see them, give them my regards !!! :D
-
Have stopped on the build.
Have changed my mind on the stern winch so that is being rebuilt to the new idea.
made the anchor winch and set aside out of the way so I would not damage it.
Yup your right got a call from daughter about a leaking pipe in her loft so promptly lifted a tool box and placed it squarely on top of the winch
Did not know I had done so until this morning when I went to offer said winch in position in the tug.
Got the GOG eye fitted to the deck and the bulwarks set to the right height
-
Got into the workshop today even though its cold enough to freeze the ???? of a brass monkey
Had another go at the anchor winch, this time its a bit bigger, still have the tripping mechanism to make up and fit but so far I'm happy that it is going to work as imagined
-
Dont you worry about the cold, hurry up and get my tug finished !! {-)
-
I could do you a deal on maybe
A springer
A jet ski
A set of plans for a dredger
And at a push there is a Tito Neri
but and here is the but
THIS build is MINE
MINE
&
ALL MINE
:}
-
Thats a bit harsh.
You know you'll get bored with it :-))
-
And while we are on the subject how about you paying your docking bill's
-
This was my take on a Parat kit when they first came out, she moved to the midlands where she was used a heck of a lot for towing and I think now she has moved abroad (not quite sure ) Poll could tell us more. pictures from Poll.
Hi George.
Yes she 's gone to sunnier climates. I should have been shot for letting her go, modelers say they can not get them to tow, but it worked very well for me, head boat & stern.
Regards
John POLL
-
And while we are on the subject how about you paying your docking bill's
Always got to bring up the past !!!!!!! %%
-
Have a video of one pushing a trainer tanker to the quay side in Marchwood (Warshash)
Great tug should have kept the first one then I could have built a fleet of tractor tugs just like (Ha dreaming again)
-
Hi Catengineman.
If your power is on a rocker switch (JPG5726 ) how do you power both drives so they run together?
John POLL
-
Hi George.
Yes she 's gone to sunnier climates. I should have been shot for letting her go, modelers say they can not get them to tow, but it worked very well for me, head boat & stern.
Regards
John POLL
Shouldn't of let mine go either, great tug, as catenginman says , could push the manned models and they were 5.5 tonnes.
Burt, post the video up
-
Hi Catengineman.
If your power is on a rocker switch (JPG5726 ) how do you power both drives so they run together?
John POLL
The idea I used for the motor drives is two push to lock on switches / push to switch off = these are acted on via the servo arm which sweeps one side to do that switch then to the other for the opposite switch. the servo returns to center both motors are fed from one speed controller which is FWD only.
If your using only one motor the speed is adjusted to get optimum RPM to the VS unit
-
Video is on photobucket
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k49/adonis_spanner/Various%20Video/?action=view¤t=MarchwoodLake016.mp4
Hope that works
album
http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k49/adonis_spanner/Tugs%20and%20tankers%20at%20Marchwood/
-
Yep, they worked. Ahhh, happy days :-))
-
May find some time to get down your way one day, I'll bring both tugs and you can have a go with Tito
edit "are you on off or just dossing"
-
Off till the 15th, started doing 3 and 3 now, at last. been doing a mini docking on the stan tug.
If you dont get down before the 15th, i'm up in miton keynes on sat 24th march, if your about then might come up to you
-
I'll keep you informed though I am supposed to be going out to Capri (yes the island) this is to view and asses a ship there.
just how long that could take is the proverbial length of string
All depends on what the local is like ???
-
Nice, haven't sailed there yet, haven't sailed the the boat for 18 months!, there are two, one near the town, just a big lake next to the marina. The other one is in the sealife center. If were not iced up going to go down Sunday, if not will try next Sunday
-
Have fun then
I'm off to my bed now big day modeling tomorrow %%
-
Ok, catch you later
-
I like being at home on leave as I get some time to have fun in the cold, no not at the lake but in the workshop (ex garage)
fitted the hawse pipes and the tripping system for the anchor winch
-
Capt Jack and Poll have Parat as profil picture, I suppose that Catengiman is waiting to finish his own project to also have a similar picture ?
Nice video at Marchwood, it's my dream to play with may tugs and this sized dead ship !
Xtian
-
Capt Jack and Poll have Parat as profil picture, I suppose that Catengiman is waiting to finish his own project to also have a similar picture ?
Nice video at Marchwood, it's my dream to play with may tugs and this sized dead ship !
Xtian
Sadly I sold mind, wish I hadn't, that was mine in the video. Still do get to drive a boat with 3 VS's and sometimes with 4 but not as much fun as the model
-
I go to play with this about 1 mile off the coast at Lowestoft
http://www.atlantic-marine.co.uk/Atlantic%20Cougar.htm
Not as much fun as a model but very maneuverable with two ASD and two CP drives the boss looked a little worried when I was "playing with the sticks" but hey ho if he wants he could sack me......
-
Hey! Atlantic cougar, thats an ex Swedish survey vessel right? I did my military service on another one, HMS Johan Nordenankar, and your ship was called HMS Nils Strömcrona. Manned by the Navy and now sold, wonder what happened to "my" ship? She was a bit bigger and a really nice ship with a big "hanger deck" for her 7 daughter boats used when surveying. As for playing with boats, I do it all day long for a living but as you say it's more fun with the model ones!
Now back to your great tug!
Hama.
-
Hi hama,
Small world..
The company have purchased the *Nils Strömcrona* Atlantic Cougar for survey and support work on the wind farms around the coast
Hey, don't tell anyone I don't actually like the vessel ! it rolls on wet grass has an overcomplicated alarm / control / shutdown system though this may be because half the equipment it is trying to control is not there.
I could have done with you a few months ago when there was a need to translate the signage to English.
If you ever fancy a job?
poor pay silly hours daft clients but we have a lot of fun and get fed very well.
-
You had me at "...get fed very well"!! I'm coming over, designated translater! Joking aside, I'd be happy to try and help in the future if you need any translation.
All the best, have a nice watch!
Hama
-
Thanks I could photograph the words then post to you and Yippee The crew and I will then know what we are looking for or at or why.
The boss lies the ship and there is the problem, he thinks "we" should all learn a new language just to operate his toys.
There is a bit of a difference between normal and technical when it comes to using a translator (book or net based).
I may take you up on your offer. :}
-
Installed the anchor winch and tested it <:(
out it has come and will now return to the drawing board (if I used one)
it lifts the anchor at the right speed, it will trip and the anchor will run out as expected, so whats wrong
Just too noisy and the chain will not fall and lay in the "box" like it does in Tito and with around nine or ten tries there was one where it came up out of the box like a bunch of B######s as they say on ships.
so now looking at a slight change here and there.
-
As the anchor winch has "done my head in I have changed over to another project.
I have stripped down a servo and removed the lock lug and then cut off the top of the 'pot' then spent a few moments setting the dead band so I can then use this as a winch drive.
I have super glued the pot in the right place and tested the fwd rev of the motor several times before reassembly of the servo
-
Have done a few bits to the build
fitted the drive units and servos along with the anchor winch
forgot to take pictures of the anchor winch before putting the deck on (though had to put the deck on to test the winch (catch 22)
Made some of the accommodation up but still not sure on what it will finally look like, so many options !
-
Took some time out to have another little go at the VS Tug build (sorry no man as yet)
The stern winch is now working fine and so I covered over the drive gear then assembled the bridge but forgot to take pictures while the roof was off <:(
Having the the fire monitors sticking out means I have to be a little careful what I do now as I don't want to break or damage them.
On the trials at the pond I found the ESC I was going to use great but then I lost all the drive? on a bench test the ESC is dead? there is no way the two motors could even come close to the rating on the ESC but it is dead except for the BEC part.
12 volts goes in = 0 volts come out
BEC gives of 5.2 volts. so I have glued it to the wall in my garage to remind me NOT to get Cheap Hong Kong esc's
-
One from the wheel house not very clear but hey ho
-
Well being as the weather is JUST TOO BAD to take swmbo out I am permitted to spend some time in the workshop (garage / den / escape room) Fitted a new ESC (Mtroniks ) one I had laying around from an old boat so I just pray it is OK. All the bench testing has been good so one will only have to hope.
sorted out the channels on the decoder for the other controls like stern winch, anchor winch, fire monitors, water pump and various lighting switches.
manage to get some paint on the hull and bulwarks and then did a first coat of deck green (not too sure if I want grey now though)
Have yet to get on with the accommodation and decide what configuration I will go with.
R
-
Have to put the build and this log away
life is such that the time spent is required elsewhere
-
Last entry before I return to the ship to earn more money to use on models
Have made the exhausts the way I want them and fitted the handrails where I wanted to put them (this is my idea and not based on any real vessel)
A quick daub of paint and I will get some fresh when I return from work.
-
Looking good! what's next? :-)
-
Thank you Martin
I notice now that the header is now not grayed out (to me anyway)
next is off to work so all the building will be on hold for a few months now.
I will be fitting lights and probably a revolving radar then also have the opportunity to fit a smoke unit to the exhausts
I will try and sort out the paint job when I return (painting at scale is just not my bag) a full size ship and an airless spray gun system, now that's a different story
Thanks R
-
<:( I've had a long spell at sea on several of the companies ships but now have some long awaited rest so thought I would get the tug out from under the dust and spider webs and have a little refresher as to sea trials {:-{
Err Umm well been such a long time since I even had the Transmitter out of its case I could not remember what model number the VS tug was programmed into it <:(
Went up to the lake with expectations and a smile, first off broke a terminal on one of the 12v SLA's so had to use a spare. Then another club member said my transmitter was interfering with his vessel, I'm on 40Mhz FM hes on 40Mhz AM ? So shut all my system down and his vessel carried on doing what ever it felt like, so noting to do with me %%
Tug in water ! all ready to go and forward o the sticks = tug going side ways back on the sticks and tug spins round like there's no tomorrow? now trying to get the tug back to the edge of the lake when the controls are not as one would have thought took a little bit of "out of the box" thinking.
After some time I did manage to reprogram my transmitter so that forward is forward and back is back etc and did manage to have an hour or so before the battery died too much to let me use both drives at full power.
I di have the camera but with all the problems I caused myself I did not have the energy to get it out and take any pictures. I will continue the build now that I am happy with the trim and control (lets hope I can get some done before returning to a ship) be whatever that one is called.... :D
-
What an interesting day you had. I felt for you.
Please tell me more about the 'programming' feature you have. I am assuming different set ups can be memorised by your transmitter depending on which receiver you use.
How many set ups choices do you have ? I was thinking this type of device might be handy for my choice of crafts and wondering what sort of differences I might need between them. I would have thought that going forward and backwards would be the same controls but maybe geared slower or faster, depending on circumstances.
Perhaps you could help me.
Regards,
ken
-
Hi,
I have a Futaba FX 18 transmitter with a multi module loaded inside to give me (8 channels on radio then 12 + 2 from module)
the radio itself can store up to 12 models each with their own settings and if a CAMPac is fitted then even more can be stored.
As for the VS tug the way the units are controlled give the vessel its trust in any direction, each VS unit has two servos to move the center drive control pin which in turn denotes where the blades pivot to give thrust at what point.
I have since had a little time in the workshop and found out that I had tried to use the VS tug with my ASD tug settings which is why there was such a erratic vessel on the water. (the ASD is easier to e=set up so will redo that later)
Also the VS drive units must not have the center pin pushed or pulled too much or damage can be costly so having a transmitter with adjustable endpoint, centering and exponential as well as multi mixing channels is almost a must for this type of drive system (IMHO)
-
I run my parat with only 3 servos for the vs units. 2 move each thwart ship rod for f&a thrust using ch 1 & 3. I use 1 more servo to move both f&a rods via an idler. Push 1 rod, pull the other. As units are contra rotating then both thrust to port or to stbd. I drive this servo on channel 6 via a pot so I have mimicked the real operation of wheel and 2 levers. I have a 20amp esc which controls both units speed via channel 5 again with a pot. The esc is NOT required. The units can just be switched on when launching model. The real ones units rotate at full speed all the time. They only take power (load) when pulling pitch. I fitted an esc because I listened to "experts" and it was my first model so didn't think it wise to argue. It is however fun to run the units at dead slow to work up ones skills. I use 4 more channels for pump switch, sail winch for extending monitor and for traversing same and 2 monitors on monkey island. These are mainly for soaking grockles. They love it!!
If you are only getting a kick on switch on I don't really think you have anything to worry about re over driving the units. I regularly over drive mine (they get noisy) just back em off until quiet. Mine are in their third year with no problems.
Jerry.
-
Ah I see, though I do use four servos I have totally independent operation of either drive, and like you I have fitted an ESC this is a boon when using this tug in steering competitions as it gives such a great control, though I did get a handicap at one meeting (they (the judges) made me travel the whole course BACKWARDS :D ) well they thought it was a handicap.
I have diverted from the Parat to have a construction of my own design, so there is no telescopic monitor but it does have an anchor that works and the tow winch.
-
See, they don't understand them. They are better backwards. I love mine.
Jerry.
-
This is my second one (should never have sold the other)
Even the ASD tug will drive astern very well but as my tugs are on the large side doing the steering comps through the small gates we use can be a bit of a task
-
Thank you for the info. :-))
ken
-
Note to self.....
Change names of models to something other than TUG 1 and TUG 2 and TUG 3, SPRING, S Heli and L Heli, JET SKI and POPEYE.
Tito Neri was TUG 1 but is now going to be Neri just so I don't wipe out all her settings again. <:(
-
I run my parat with only 3 servos for the vs units. 2 move each thwart ship rod for f&a thrust using ch 1 & 3. I use 1 more servo to move both f&a rods via an idler. Push 1 rod, pull the other. As units are contra rotating then both thrust to port or to stbd. I drive this servo on channel 6 via a pot so I have mimicked the real operation of wheel and 2 levers. I have a 20amp esc which controls both units speed via channel 5 again with a pot. The esc is NOT required. The units can just be switched on when launching model. The real ones units rotate at full speed all the time. They only take power (load) when pulling pitch. I fitted an esc because I listened to "experts" and it was my first model so didn't think it wise to argue. It is however fun to run the units at dead slow to work up ones skills. I use 4 more channels for pump switch, sail winch for extending monitor and for traversing same and 2 monitors on monkey island. These are mainly for soaking grockles. They love it!!
If you are only getting a kick on switch on I don't really think you have anything to worry about re over driving the units. I regularly over drive mine (they get noisy) just back em off until quiet. Mine are in their third year with no problems.
Jerry.
hi jerry c are you running the 500e motor or have you gone for the 600 like some of the other's have ive left mine running on the 500e's so far! my voith tug is the nanuq a bit bigger than the parat lts of fun to drive! :-))
-
I kept what they came with, 500e.
Jerry.