Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: John W E on May 06, 2006, 06:25:29 pm
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Hi there All
Well, here she is, my latest build....hate to tell you all this but I didnt even get a smile from the Judges at the Harrogate Show. Maybe they are in shock at the authentic colour of her, she is painted in Mountbatten Pink - see what you think ;D she was painted in this colour for the St Nazaire Raid - in March 1942. She never returned from the Raid though.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Well finished boat, shame about the colour though it just don't seem right. (even though it might be so)
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Its the right colour alright,nice boat John.
I.ve a hundred pictures of this boat being built if any person wants a look let me know throu Bluebird sorry no text available
(in a wisper) judges should ave went to specsavers !!!? :P
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Hi All,
Regarding the colour - Mountbatten Pink on this vessel, James Dorrian, the author and John Lambert, draftsman, - plus a gentleman by the name of Bill Harlow in Australia who actually served on the Fairmiles during WWII, furnished me with sufficient evidence to leave me in no doubt of the colour of this vessel during the Raid.
Even though, like many hardened 'grey boys', I doubted this colour scheme - but when it was proven to me through documentation and etc., it was only when I began to accept the colour of her.? :)? Can you imagine the Royal Naval battleships and smaller vessels painted in this colour, because they were at one time - but only for a short period.
....and for the eagle eyes, the only thing bought on this model are: anchor chain, port lights and props - and lettering.? ;)
Couple more pics of her - and that's the end of me gripe.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
ps..... I will thank John Lambert, James Dorrian on this forum for their help....and Bill Harlow too.
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Hey Bluebird, great looking model. Fascinating about the colour scheme: I'd never have guessed. Do you remember that film, can't think of the name, about a submarine, US, WWII, painted pink. Think it starred Cary Grant. Anyway, I digress! Lovely looking model and I envy you! I have a type D and would (in an ideal world!) love to build a type A, B and C too! Congratulations on a lovely looking boat.
Mike
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Well, here she is, my latest build....hate to tell you all this but I didnt even get a smile from the Judges at the Harrogate Show.
Well Bluebird, thats nothing unusual for judges, most know very little.
I took my HMS BRYONY to the Model Engineers in London, did not get a commended, which is the lowet of the low in awards, I was told by 2 judges, It looked to much like the ship, is this not what we strive for. ron h
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I don't like your gnomes Bluebird, but is the hull a proper plank-on-frame?
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Amno, HOW-WAY matey, you know Ive never bought a hull in me life, I am still saving for one of Kingston Mouldings Hulls ;D its double diagonally built plank on frame mine and if you would like to see all the stages, if you email Seaspray - you can see all the stages of the build.? Its not a rip off from Kingston mouldings.? ;D ;D ;D
Careful about the gnomes mind, they came from moulds!!! and my wife bites!!! as bad as your dawgs.? ;D ;D ;D
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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come the revolution the judges will be first against the wall. crying shame.
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You know why it didn't win, it isn't finished in gloss paint, you scratch built all of your fittings and didn't buy any from sirmar( not knocking sirmar before anyone jumps down my neck) and it wasn't big enough as bigger models have more detail even though they had the wrong fittings on. A kit won over a totally scratch built windermere stream launch. Won't know a good model if I had smacked them over the head with it.
Anyway good to see all the lads from Kirklees putting on a good stand and Stan Reffin's 1/16 DUKW ( which didn't gat a look in).
Never mind
Still a good show
Riggers
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It looked good to me. there where quite a lot of kits there.? Peter
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next time hand paint it in the thickesst gloss varnish, badly, preferably with dust on it, put some modern weaponry on it, a few figures with pink faces and a furry dice. youll win. oh, dont forget to leave any wood grain showing. even if its meant to be steel.
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Hi there HS93 - it is very kind of you taking this picture. ?Look at the Windermere Steam Launch - that steam is scratch built from top to bottom and it was place just 3rd. ? Makes one wonder what the Judges actually see. ?When I first put my model on the bench and looked at the steam launch - I was sure that the steam launch would win because she is a beautiful model. ? ?Dont mind losing to such a high standard as that.
Next year I am going to get a plank of wood, knock some nails in it, tie string round for hand rails, buy some fittings - paint it bright glossy red and hay ho - you never know.
Aye
John E
Bluebird.
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great minds think alike
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Hi Colin
We cannot have two planks the same - it might confuse the judges and they might be forced to pick a good plank ;D ;D ;D
Aye
John
BLUEBIRD
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Nah, i'tl be easy for them. they would relate to a plank of wood.
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Hi there Colin and all
After much deliberation and I have sweated all day making this, this model is a genuine semi-scratch semi-kit and a sure winner ;D
Wonder what the Judges will make of her ;D
Aye
John E
Bluebird
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Can you imagine being one of those judges and reading this thread
martin
ahh you really make me "xxxxx" myself john what a great model scale glossy ahh got to go tears are runnin down my face
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Not a winner the prop needs to be a 3 blader ;D
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And you need to paint it glossy
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are the fittings scratch or are they bought :D
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By the way does anybody have a photo of the winner?
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Her is first if I remember right
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Second
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Third
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Bluebird ? you need a whitemetal or plastic prop!!! ?Peter
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Best in show
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The third was scratch built and the first was a kit.
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I know that its human nature, but do we really need to judge models at a show? It seems to me that the builder is the only real judge that counts.It could be that while I am sure that they are well intentioned it is the judges who get the kicks out of the whole process.
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Oh dear- the same discussion running in Germany on shows....... ::)
I have refused, to show any of my models on a competition. A judge I use to know asked me why. My answer: I will attend, when I have seen the best of your boats, though that I know what kind of craftmanship you will relate in judging a model. (I have never seen a model from him).
By the way, I still mis his answer.
As a result from that I do my boats the best I can and try to improve from boat to boat for my own satisfaction. Don`t need a guy with a ruler and a caliper to charge my boat.
And about the gloss paint- I never used it. Either matt or satin- and that`s it!
About the lates model I guess you would win a medal in Germany as well! ;D
J?rg
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I have never nor never will enter anything I build in a show. It may seem selfish but I only build for myself (Son included) and as long as my son and I enjoy what we have built then the rest is irrelevent.
I display at exhibitions and I look forward to chatting with other builders ex-sailors etc but as for competitions its not my cup of tea. Too many judges are inconsistant with their marks, I agree with Jorg, MCR etc Judges tend not to be rational.
Daryl
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Daryl- to me it does not sound selfish anyway. I am with you- I do the boats for my pleasure and for my son (age 12)....- I try to share my knowledge and love to meet up and chat with other modelers. Once a year I visit a show as a participant where I meet up with my mates from the UK. This is my way of modeling-life- I can not afford to travel 1000 miles a year for visiting or entering competitions. 1000 Miles means 100 Litres of gasoline, means 135 Euros. That`s a new speedcontroler or the basics for a new boat. Might sound hard and I don`t want to charge anybody who is entering a competition. It needs lot?s of enthusiasm to do it and these modelers earn my respect. But it`s not my world.
Every bird sings his own song.....
J?rg
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very sensible and realistic replies. love all the model shown here. very interesting that so many people agree with each other and myself. love to hear from a judge. should liven things up.
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Very strange thinking on the part of the judges if a good scratchbuild can be beaten by even an exceptionally well made standard kit model. The actual modelling skills required may be comparable, but with a genuine scratch build there's an awful lot of additional stuff involved, not to mention all the necessary research and other aspects, all quite a bit cleverer than assembling ready made components to end up with a model that's more or less identical to hundreds or in some cases even thousands of others built from the same kit. I suppose it depends to some extent on the size of the entry, but because the skills requires are so different, I'd say it was illogical to judge scratch and kit models together in any case. Don't want to make you even more big-headed than you are already Bluebird, but a very nice model. Any chance of some technical details and maybe one or two interior pics?
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Hi all,
sea trials today - pouring with rain but still took her down for sea trials - she did quite well - I need slightly bigger props on her and not too sure about the Action mixer control.
Here is the laugh, the better half accompanied me, and whilst standing taking photographs a duck deposited a photograph of his own splat on her head!! ::) ;D ;D good job it wasnt a swan or she would have been bombed for sure.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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She's looking lovely, John. Well done. Nice to see her in the water - I love the moment when you first drop a newly finished model into the lake and see her go off under her own steam for the first time... :)
And to go along with comments already made - I think the best judge of how good a model this is, is yourself. In fact you're the only person qualified to judge it in depth. You know everything about it, no-one coming along and looking at it for the 1st time could ever know how much work has gone into it, what problems have been overcome and how well, or even how well it's been built.
If you're happy with it (and it sounds like you rightly are), then at the end of the day that's all that matters.
Julian.x
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Hi All
I have waited a while to give my opinion on 'judges' - as this was my first and last model for judging.? After reading all the posts above, and actual building and sailing the model - I know where the real enjoyment comes from - not from looking at certificates and medals for a well built model - but, actually building the model and having the enjoyment of sailing it.? ;D
As far as judging goes, when I actually entered this model into the competition to be judged, I was under the impression (from the Entrance Form that I completed) that there were three categories to be judged independently - kit built, semi-kit built and scratch built.? I didnt think they were all going to be judged against each other - now it seems very strange to me - and very unprofessional the way in which it was done.
So, for anyone who is entering a competition for the first time, I would suggest they thoroughly check out how it is to be judged.? :-\
Dont get me wrong, when I saw the high standards of the scratch built models, I knew I was well beaten by higher standards? ;D
What shall I build next - I dont know? ??? ??? an Airfix kit???? ;D
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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yet again i agree with you. only entered for judging once, long time ago, lost out to a plank of wood. no joke you could see the wood grain on what was supposed to be steel. oh well, i did get a lot of sympathy. i totally agree that the joy is in the building. i have spent years building a model and its been out on the water maybe for 5 hours at the most. but it is nice when people tell you its a good job you have done and ask how you did something, nice to share.
great thread, great forum.
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You should have won.
Discounting the talent it took to build? a scratch built model like that you were very brave to choose such a distinctive colour scheme and far more original than any "built to the letter" of the instructions kit.
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I did stupidly agree to be one of the judges in a local model club open day.
Never again!!
The other judges had very little idea about ships so couldnt be relied on to know if any equipment was correct or even useable.
They were impressed with GRP hulls and marked DOWN scratch built.
Opened my eyes and would never agree to be a judge again.
I am not saying you have to be a sailor to judge but the winner in exact scale had solid handrails outboard of the liferafts, but I was told the paintwork was very good!!
As I said never again.
Bob
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Hello there , I'm just a novice at the scratch built boats,or as we call them Freelance models, Well done, and be proud of what you have done TTFN Pat,
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Hi Freelance,
As I understand it Scratchbuilding and freelance are different aspects. Scratchbuilding requires intrer alia research/working from a plan and making all/most bits yourself. The boat can be a scale model or a freelance subject. 'Freelance' is building a boat that has no particular prototype and therefore is not 'true' scale. You could buy a kit for a freelance model.
However, call it what you like.
Cheers
Doug
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Hello,
Can some one explain the reasoning behind the " MOUNTBATTEN PINK " colour scheme?.
Was it camouflage, or just a whim.
In a group of other boats it would stick out like a sore thumb !!.
Why was the boat not painted Grey, like all the others?.
John.
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John,
Mountbatten Pink - also called Plymouth Pink - it is a Naval camouflage pigment invented by
Lord Louis Mountbatten of the British Royal Navy in Autumn 1940 - during WW2. Mountbatten was on escort duty with a convoy and noticed that one ship in the group vanished from view much earlier than the remainder. A Union Castle liner that was still painted in its pre-war medium Lavender mauve grey colour. Mountbatten became so convinced of this pigment's efficacy as a camouflage during the dawn and dusk periods that he had all of the destroyers of his flotilla (the fifth flotilla painted with a similar pigment, a medium grey (507B) with a small amount of Venetian Red mixed in . By early 1941 several other ships captains began using the same camouflage, though no formal testing was done to determine how well it worked.
One of the anecdotal and possibly apocryphal tales told in support of Mountbatten Pink was the story of the cruiser HMS Kenya (nicknamed 'the Pink Lady' at the time, due to her Mountbatten Pink paint, which during Operation Archery covered a Commando raid against installations on Vagsoy Island off the Norweigan coast. The Germans fired on the Kenya for several minutes with coastal guns but she sustained only minor damage from the near misses. This was attributed to her Mountbatten Pink camouflage blending in with the pink marker dye the Germans were using in their shells, preventing German spotters from distinguishing between shell splashes and the ship.
A later refinement of the basic Mountbatten Pink camouflage was the use of a slightly lighter tone of the same colour for upper structures of the ship. By the end of 1942, however, all vessels of destroyer size and larger had dispensed with the Mountbatten Pink camouflage. Although, it is believed some smaller vessels maintained this colour well into 1944. The main problem with Mountbatten Pink is that it stood out at sunrise and sunset when the traditional battleship grey was much more difficult to see.
(Wilkipedia - if you wish to read more)
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Blubird,
Thanks for a very good explanation, spot on ! ! !
John Dowd.
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I have seen a lot of judging done over the years and I am sure at judging school they are taught that the model which is made from a kit must win to satisfy the model shop owners and model kit manufacturers..Roy
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Bluebird, you are Da MAN!
See that JayDee chap?... the one just above your reply? Well, e's obviously on the same frequency, only he had the noodle to ask what I didn't... Why Pink???
Listen though, what a top-notch answer! I'll tell you one thing, amigo... you lot up there might not speak proper, like what we do, but by jove, you don't 'arf know how to tell a good 'un.
Secretly though, I shan't tell anyone that I reckon you copied it from a book or summat.
Anyhows, me ol' pal, thanks for that snippet of fascinating folly. That's ANOTHER beer I owe's 'e.
By the by, what're the chances of you and the tribe making a detour around these parts when you're down this way? There's a howdy-doody pub right next to the canal where they talk boat-speak and swap lies. I'll order 'em, and if you like, you can pay for 'em........
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What a blooming shame then that the last Fairmile d's are up for sale at ?47,000 each , I wish!!!!! ( see this months "model boats mag") they're not pink but but they look and do the biz (or they did last year anyway).
John C
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I meant B's.........no really
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Hey PMK man - hoy whats this aboot us not tarking proper like up heor ?? ?Hev ya eva thowt it might be the other way aroond - and yee lot divvent nar how to bend words .....
Aye - you hit the nail on the head - I did copy it from the web about Mountbatten Pink - Wilkipedia my man good source of knowledge for one and arl.
Seriously though, my Fairmile B (the Pink Lady) as she has kindly become to be known, is now on display for a Veterans Union for the day. I think all the Veterans decided to stay at home - as its gone very cold here and pouring with rain here.? ?I have spent more time this afternoon explaining about the importance of these craft to the younger generation who didnt have any knowledge of the St Nazaire Raid.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
WHERE'S THE SUMMER GONE :-)
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Seriously though, my Fairmile B (the Pink Lady) as she has kindly become to be known, is now on display for a Veterans Union for the day. I think all the Veterans decided to stay at home - as its gone very cold here and pouring with rain here.? ?I have spent more time this afternoon explaining about the importance of these craft to the younger generation who didnt have any knowledge of the St Nazaire Raid.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
WHERE'S THE SUMMER GONE :-)
Sadly true Bluebird, it's the stuff they're taught in school about WW2, mostly about Adolf H and concentration camps apparently. I wasn't born until some time after the War ended, but I know quite a lot about it through books and some of the better TV programmes, which of course is how most of us really educate ourselves. Some months ago, Jeremy Clarkson did an excellent BBC2 programme on the Victoria Cross, best thing he's done since that one on Isambard Kingdom Brunel. He told the story of the unimaginable bravery of an officer in the Staffordshires who won a VC at Arnhem, and finally explained that the man had been his wife's father. He'd collected his medal from the King at Buckingham Palace, and had been so sickened by his experiences and the friends he had lost, that he deliberately left it in a pub ashtray on his way home. He never talked about his wartime experiences, and it was only after his death that anyone, even his own wife & children, found out about his VC and what he'd been awarded it for. All a bit off topic, many of my posts are I'm afraid, but much of the story appeared in today's Sunday Times, written by Mrs Clarkson, the hero's daughter. There's a link below, have a look, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Now that man never scored a goal for England, but he was a hero in the truest sense of the word.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2239811,00.html
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Hey, anmo, that J. Clarkson documentary wacked me in the same way as you. You're right - it did indeed make for excellent viewing. After watching, the only word that popped into my bonce was, "Respect!". Thing is though, I'm a bit miffed to admit that I still don't know the man's name. Can you help me out here?
Yeah, it's a bit off-topic, but thanks for raising the subject.
What do you know of Percy Topliss?
Bluebird, not only do you build heap good boat, you obviously know your beanz. And summer, my friend, has gone for another year.
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Hi all,
digging an 'old topic up' for those who can receive BBC Channels Sunday night (18 March 2007) there is going to be (hopefully) televised a re-enactment of the Raid on St Nazaire at 8.00 p.m. g.m.t. AND hopefully it is near as can be to the actual raid - not the typical BBC near-enough but truth. Models etc. we will see...HMS Campbelltown and the Motor Launches.
See what its like we can only hope its good.
its again done by Jeremy Clarkson but as a side laugh I do know in one part Jeremy got a dam good soaking ;D
aye
John E
Bluebird
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J ohn, still the speedy boat (raf launch) now my son wants a vessel ,but an MTB just an ofchance you might know of one.?Chris Brook,Bomberflyer.
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Another STUNNING build WOW
Dave
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The End {-) {-) {-)
aye
john
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Thanks John,
Great work and very informative!
One question, forming the cowls did you use a doming block?
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Hi ya I made a steel domed punch along with a steel ring which was the same diameter as the outside diameter of the vent ... I also used 20 thou thick brass shim to make the cowell. The base ring was placed on a solid bit o wood the brass sheet was placed on the top and then the rounded punch was placed in the centre and hit with a big hammer ... later found if I squeezed the two together in a vice instead of the hammer. got a better result.
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Have a look a pic to see steel rings n punches also plasticard works well ... warm plasticard first. John
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I really enjoyed that build John. Lovely job and a pleasure to the eye. I would like to pinch some of your ideas, if I may, as I plan to get back and finish mine.
Cheers mate,
ken