Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Welsh Wizard on February 27, 2012, 09:07:36 pm
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It appears another Costa ship is in trouble drifting with no power NOT good for that company is it
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16178168
Dave
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No its not. Also the ship is not in an ideal place. Lets hope all goes well. John.
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According to the report at the end they have put onto the ship 8 Marines from some country to help dter the priates. I wonder how many people will be cancelling their cruises with Costa?
Duane
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There's a large French tuna fishing boat reached her and transferred the 8 French Naval Marines she had onboard as protection against pirates to the cruise ship.
Fires onboard can happen on a brand new ship , with the pressure thats in the fuel lines if one ruptures it sprays hot fuel everywhere which will burn if it hits the exhaust ( had this happen on a fishing boat back in the 90's , fire burst very quickly and lucky for us once we'd isolated the fuel it burned out very quickly ) so maintenance will pick up obvious problems but if the fault is in the thickness of the fuel line and it wasn't picked up at the manufacturer then something like this can just happen
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Dave,
The IMO regulations state that ALL high pressure fuel lines have to be double skinned.
If the main pressure line fractures the escaping fuel is contained within the outer pipe.
I must admit my concern is more about the emergency systems on the vessels.
What has happened to disable the Emergency Generator?
Why have the Main Engines shut down they should be 24 volts with battery backup and chargers supplied from Emergency Generator.
Bob
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Dave,
The IMO regulations state that ALL high pressure fuel lines have to be double skinned.
If the main pressure line fractures the escaping fuel is contained within the outer pipe.
I must admit my concern is more about the emergency systems on the vessels.
What has happened to disable the Emergency Generator?
Why have the Main Engines shut down they should be 24 volts with battery backup and chargers supplied from Emergency Generator.
Bob
That's what I wondered when the report said she was on battery power - where's the emergency genny in all this ? There again with the usual inaccuracies any report connected to ships usually have, the generator may well be chugging happily away providing this 'battery' supply !
Mike
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But this is certainly NOT a new ship. In fact it seems to be older than most Mayhemers.
But as Davie said.....this can happen on any ship. Do I need to remind you of an "incident" not so long ago when a well maintained and well run Norwegian ship had a similar outbreak ...albeit within the confines of the fjiords.
Emergency generators are exactly what the name implies....in no way can they provide the power to run all "normal" services. To do that you'd need to have a complete duplicate set-up. Not feasible.
Not good news for Costa of course, but please don't read too much into this (yet). BY.
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My understanding is that there are normally one or more emergency generators situated on the higher decks which are designed to keep the sufficient lights and communications facilities operating while the ship is evacuated should the main generators fail. There is reference to a generator being in operation on Costa Allegra but that it of course has only limited capacity and is probably not designed to be run for extended periods. I can't imagine there would be battery capacity on board to keep the lights etc. going for more than a few hours at most.
I should think the crew of the fishing boat towing her are rubbing their hands with glee - Salvage!
Colin
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It should be "Lloyds Open Form"
The full value of the ship AND cargo!
Bob
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"Emergency Switch Board
As the name indicates, it supplies to equipment and machinery that are essential during any emergency like fire, flooding, etc. One important aspect about the emergency switch boards is that it is located above the load water line or the upper most continuous deck, where as the main generators and main switchboards are located below the weather deck or the load water line. Thus this ensures that the emergency supply is maintained when the vessel is flooded with water to the weather deck.
During normal operation, power is supplied from the main generators to the main switch board. The emergency switch board gets it supply from the main switch board. When the main generators fail, the main switch board looses its supply and this causes the emergency generator to start automatically, which will supply the emergency switchboard that is connected to various ship board auxiliaries. Thus critical equipment and machinery (essential services) are supplied always to maintain the safety of the ship and personnel."
The critical equipment includes 1 x Steering Motor, Main Fire Pump, Bridge Supply including nav + radio, power to Main Engines and Controlls.
Emergency Lighting etc.
Bob
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If you have the time, and are interested in how a fire can put out power ship wide, and
the trouble it can create, then take a moment to read the BLOG by John Heald.
He was cruise director aboard the Carnival Splendor when it suffered a fire
off the coast of Mexico. Cold meals were the least of their problems. :o
http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/12/smoke-on-the-water-part-1/
http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/12/smoke-on-the-water-part-2/
http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/12/smoke-on-the-water-part-3/
http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/13/smoke-on-the-water-part-4/
http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/15/smoke-on-the-water-part-5/
http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/16/smoke-on-the-water-the-final-chapter/
:-))
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Umi,
I have read it through and I have been directly involved in an actual Engine Room Fire.
Although not on Cruise Ships, other ships such as Naval Armament Vessels, Tugs, Salvage and Mooring Vessels, RORO Ferries etc.
It does seem that the Cruise Ships do not have anywhere near the capability for self help as most cargo ships.
All the other ships I have served on had a small diesel compressor that could give enough air to start the Main Engines and a provision for Local (Hand) Control of the engines and also hand Steering but 1 x Steering motor supplied via the Emergency Switchboard.
These vessels are heavy fuel but should have enough diesel to run for a few days even if you have to hand pump the fuel from the bunkers to the ready use tank(s).
Bob
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You can bet that Costa would have tried their hardest to avoid a Lloyds Open Form agreement. the ship is not abandoned and not in iminent danger of sinking. Enough time to let the tugs arrive for an agreed price.
And I guess that 'no cure, no pay' - the heart of LOF - would entail the fishing vessel towing her all the way to safety.
Andy
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considering she is in a pirate danger area I would think the fishing boat would have insisted on the highest payout possible to begin a tow towards the salvage tugs , they will be paid a handsome reward for towing her for 48 hours before handing over , if Costa tried to refuse the fishing boat would be within its rights to refuse to drop the tow making it too dangerous for the crew to drop the cable due to tension on the wire , best guess is that the fishing boat will get a minimum of a $1m maybe $2m and the trawler owners a free cruise with all perks paid for !!
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An elderly boat definately. Built in 1972. Does make you wonder how old the engines are? Also would it meet modern safety standards? John.
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if I am not misstaken she was a cargo ship or ferry before she was converted in to a cruise ship.
John
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Think they said cargo ship on Sky News at 5pm John possibly a container ship but not 100% sure
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She is a converted container ship.
Colin
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Hello
Yes of course she's a former container ship and I heard that lawyers will make trial for lying to customer ... Such a strange world !
Xtian
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Costa cruises list her build date as 1992 with a refurbishment in 2006 so the legal eagles will have a field day with this one
http://www.costacruises.co.uk/gb/costa_allegra.html
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I think it is entirely irrelevant what the origin of the ship is. Many ships have been converted from one role to another quite successfully.
One must assume that the ship conforms to the current SOLAS regulations and will have been surveyed to ensure this.
It does seem however that several passenger ships have recently suffered major electrical failure, not excepting the Queen Mary 2 temporarily, although the most publicised case was the Carnival Splendour.
Colin
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Could be a sign of cutting back on planned maintenance or engineers/electricians not fully qualified or experienced with the equipment and not able to see signed of problems
Something needs to be done to make sure things like this are as close to impossible as humanly possible and not left to chance
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Could have been a lot worse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4FIS1FnOQg&feature=player_embedded
Regards Ian.
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Could be a sign of cutting back on planned maintenance or engineers/electricians not fully qualified or experienced with the equipment and not able to see signed of problems
Something needs to be done to make sure things like this are as close to impossible as humanly possible and not left to chance
Well, I don't think model boaters are very well placed to criticise. We are always blowing fuses (or not fitting them) frying speed controllers and looking for the cheapest bit of kit we can get out of China which may or may not work. And most of us don't really understand what we are doing either.....
Colin
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Colin you are right about some of us having troubles. But. We have not had the training and qualifications that one expects the enginners to have. Also most of us dont work with our boats all day as the crew does with the engines. John.
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considering she is in a pirate danger area I would think the fishing boat would have insisted on the highest payout possible to begin a tow towards the salvage tugs , they will be paid a handsome reward for towing her for 48 hours before handing over , if Costa tried to refuse the fishing boat would be within its rights to refuse to drop the tow making it too dangerous for the crew to drop the cable due to tension on the wire
Who would have thought that this is exactly what is now happening , the fishing boat has ordered the tugs off and will complete the full tow herself , looks like another 12 to 14 hours longer tow time , seems that Costa must have tried to renege on the agreement for compensation to the fishing company and they will claim full LOF compensation probably by going through the courts now.
Things for Costa just can't get much worse can they !!!
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Hello
The fishing boat came here as requested by authorities to be able to take the passagers aboard in case of emergency and also because there is an armed French Navy staff to protect the fishing boat against piracy and now to protect the cruise liner - Then, as there is no tug boat in this area, the closer ones are almost a week of sailing away it was a good opportunity for both to use the tuna fishing boat as tug - this one is more powerfull with more bollard pull than many of tugs in this area. Of course it's certainely under LOF agreement, good money for the tuna fish !
Xtian
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She will have 10 to 14,000hp Xtian and a bollard pull over 250t I would think , these Tuna Pursers are fast ( over 18 knots ) and large ships so very powerful for their size
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I don't think Trévigon is so powerfull, she's around 4000hp for propeller power (main power in this kind of ship is for fridge and hydraulic) that means around 60 tons of bollard pull, far enough to tow this kind of cruise ship.
Xtian
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I thought most of these large ships had a lot more than 4000hp Xtian ah well wrong again lol if that had been a Scottish pelagic boat at that size then if you scale up what the local 76m boat have she'd have 15,000hp lol
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if it was a scottish pelagic it ( and the crew ) would also be fueled by ale {-)
at least the somali pirates would jump onto the ship, find a bunch of angry scottish blokes <*<
then promtly leave with there ak47s somewhere where the sun doesnt shine :P
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Not fuelled by Ale , Whisky or Vodka maybe lol
Our big pelagic trawlers are powerful ships , 72-76m boats have between 6,500 and 10,000hp , the biggest fishing boat in the world ( built as the Irish boat Atlantic Dawn ) Annelies Ilena KW174
(http://www.trawlerphotos.co.uk/gallery/data/610/medium/Rib1.JPG)
Is twin screw 7,200hp each for 14,400hp total , she's 144.6m/474ft5 long and 14,055 GRT so she would tow this cruise ship at 10 knots without breaking sweat lol
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I don't have data for the Trévignon but similar here : http://www.bateauxdepeche.net/pechindusthonier.htm with propeller power around 4000 hp
A trawler need propeller power to tow the pelagic net, but the Trèvignon is a tuna purse seiner and don't need so much power for the propeller, they are speedy ships with nice hull form and most of the onboard power is for the fridge as hundred tons of tuna need to be frozen soon after each time seine is back with fish. hydraulic also need some power.
Xtian
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Some before and after photos M/S Annie Johnson/Costa Allegra (http://www.faktaomfartyg.nu/annie_johnson_1969.htm)
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Dave,
The IMO regulations state that ALL high pressure fuel lines have to be double skinned.
If the main pressure line fractures the escaping fuel is contained within the outer pipe.
I must admit my concern is more about the emergency systems on the vessels.
What has happened to disable the Emergency Generator?
Why have the Main Engines shut down they should be 24 volts with battery backup and chargers supplied from Emergency Generator.
Bob
HP fuel lines may be double-walled but it impossible to sheath the entire fuel system and then there are the lub oil lines which are also under pressure. The majority of Engine Room fires are still caused by fuel/lub oil system leaks impinging on hot surfaces, double-wall fuel pipes or no.
Unless there is somebody here who knows the systems of this ship then everything so far is speculation and theorising. Let's wait until some facts emerge.
Barry M