Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Working vessels R&D: => Topic started by: Bryan Young on March 28, 2012, 07:32:25 PM

Title: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on March 28, 2012, 07:32:25 PM
Winter nearly over. Fed up with hibernation. Itchy fingers want to get started on a new model.
Browsing through my back issues of “Model Shipwright” I came across a “Modellers Draught” plan and article on a 45ft Admirals Barge. I’ve always wanted to have a go at one of these things, but never got around to it.
     This is really my first opportunity to describe a build from “Day One”.
In the past there’ve been questions raised about the actual cost of building a model. Always quite horrifying when everything is taken into account! So, at the risk of frightening at least some of you off building models from scratch, especially if you want a GRP hull….
So here we go.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 28, 2012, 08:01:27 PM
The first step was to scan the plans as published in Model Shipwright….mainly because I don’t wish to ruin the originals. These plans were published at 1:24 scale which would produce a model just over 24” long. OK, I know that doesn’t equate to a 45ft boat…but it does when you realise that the 45ft part is the length “between perpendiculars”. I.e, the length between the stem and the rudder post….the bit behind the rudder post was simply ignored, and this boat has around 6ft of hull aft of said rudder post.
Also, I intend to build the model at 1:12 scale (50” near enough). This will make it a nice companion to my “Bluebird of Chelsea”.  It will also be 9” wide with a max draught of  3.5”. Drawing out the “profile” of the hull in the old fashioned way (ruler and pencil and dividers) at 2xthe published plan took a couple of days. No cost involved.
The model shown in the pevious pic is only a few inches long.....probably smaller than what appears on your monitor screen.
Using the computer and the printers scaling facility the printing out of the 13 section drawings took another morning. Still no real cost. Ink usage was minimal and paper is cheap. The rest of that day was spent searching my own archives for anything to do with this type of boat. Alas, everything I’ve found so far ignores the interior…the bit where the Admiral would park his butt. Any info on this would be most welcome.
     I also intend to build the hull from GRP. Which means making another mould….something I promised myself never to do again! However, as this will be another “one-off” project I intend to sell the mould when I’ve finished with it…and at the very least recoup my financial outlay But I’m already getting ahead of myself. Have to make the “plug” first. The materials for this will be the first “cost”. 
First buy is plywood for structure of plug;   £11.00.
I would assume you have material for the building board? If not, then add at least £6.00. £17 already.
Now that the various paper templates have been drawn and cut out, transferring the drawings to the ply is reasonably easy….the hard part is to get all the section drawings to fit in the minimum amount of space (the ply).
At this stage I’m beginning to take advantage of the (hopefully temporary) disaster that has closed down the Mayhem site. I’m certainly not gloating about it, but as all I can do is “stand-by and wait” it gives me a bit of “free time”. One thing I’m sort of grateful for is that my instinctive wariness of the PM system has helped. As you well know, when a PM is received the senders e-mail address is not forthcoming….that’s why I like “direct” mail. As far as I’m concerned the “hidden” addresses should not be allowed. But I guess I’m in a minority with that one! BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 28, 2012, 08:11:13 PM

Hi Brian,

I'm really looking forward to this build. I rather fancy the hull looks 'rowing boat' type. Am I close. ?   As you plan to make a fibreglass version, will this show any clinker lines, if there is any.?  I just sit back and watch.   :-)) 

Cheers

ken

Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Neil on March 28, 2012, 08:53:48 PM
winter finished on the 21st march Bryan with the beggining of the spring solstice........mind you....thank gawd, we didn't get a winter this year, yipppeeee...........the coldest we got round here was one night at -1c....all the rest were well above it......that's the kind o' winter i like,  :-))
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 28, 2012, 09:23:24 PM
Kenny, not really a rowing boat at 50ft long with a steam engine in it! (mine will be electric).
The hulls were carvel built but could well have shown plank edges..which I hope to show in a very low-key form.
By the way, was the pic of the liner of any use to you? Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 28, 2012, 09:31:50 PM
winter finished on the 21st march Bryan with the beggining of the spring solstice........mind you....thank gawd, we didn't get a winter this year, yipppeeee...........the coldest we got round here was one night at -1c....all the rest were well above it......that's the kind o' winter i like,  :-))
Winter may have finished....but I wrote my preamble a couple of weeks ago and it was ruddy freezing up here...now, all of a sudden the temp has risen to around 70*F. Long may it last. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on March 28, 2012, 09:34:26 PM
Nice subject, and I'll tag along for the build.
Interesting idea to tally the costs.

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 28, 2012, 09:45:34 PM

Yes the Carvel built is beautiful to look at.   :-))

I have replied to your message on your Ships Blog pages so as not to clog up this thread.

regards

ken
 
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: kraftykid on March 29, 2012, 12:07:06 AM
can we have pics  i love scanin through a good old lot of pics i do  ok2
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: triumphjon on March 29, 2012, 08:11:38 AM
thats an intesersting subject , i had a billings one that was damaged stock when i worked for bristol model supplies ( shop now sadly long gone ) which was a fun boat to sail ! good luck with your build , jon
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: kiwimodeller on March 29, 2012, 10:52:09 AM
Brian I presume it is volume 84 of Model Shipwright with the plans that you have? The plans that came with mine I am sure were full sized. There are also plans by Norman Ough available at 12:1 for the 50ft Picket Boat version which has a straight stern. I am building one of these on a fiberglass hull from Models by Design but I have to admit that the counter stern Admirals Barge version would probably look even better. I am sure you will enjoy building yours but you need to put a steam plant in it - to hell with the expense! Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 29, 2012, 04:07:03 PM
Ian....seductive as your sggestion is...at my age and probably spending a year building the thing, I cannot see myself spending another few years making a steam plant! Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 29, 2012, 04:58:47 PM
Ian.....again. Sorry, I didn't fully answer your post. The plans I'm using are the MS (84) set but I've doubled the size. I also looked at the straight stern version but despite the complexity decided to go for the "spoon stern" version. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 29, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
More expense…..1.5mm ply @ £10 ( 48” x 22”).
                             10 x 2” steel brackets @25p ea = £2.50.
                             Pack of 12 glue sticks                   ££4.00
Total expenditure so far………………………………………”27.50.

I tried posting this last night but got the dreaded “Gateway” thing.
The 1st pic is simply a layout of all the ¼” stations and the ½” “spine”.
I presume you realise that the spine has to be laid upside down on the building board.
Yonks ago I realised that even “good quality” ply tends to have a bend in it. At first, I used to rout out a groove in the building board and so straighten out the bend. It didn’t take long to realise that was both wasteful and expensive. So now I use 2” steel angle brackets to hold the spine straight. This has another advantage. If the stations are glued only to the spine and not also to the building board then the whole unit can be lifted out/off the board and viewed the right way up. Plus, the same building board can be used for many models.
Looking at the section cut-outs you may be able to discern a couple of small slots where the shaped part of the station meets the rectangular part. Into these slots is fitted a longitudinal strip of 1.5mm ply. Eventually this will give me a nice clean deck edge on the mould. A lot easier than trimming off rough edged GRP.
At first glance it would appear that I use an excessive amount of ply. Not so.
On many vessels the keel is not parallel to the water line…and just about every vessel has some degree of sheer. Therefore the water-line is effectively the only horizontal datum point you have. For this model I’ve simply drawn a line parallel to the water line but 1.5” above the highest point of the hull (the stem). This gives me some more advantages. For one, it means that I can reach inside the hull while planking-up and glue in any bracing pieces that may (will) be required. I tend to use 1/32” ply (cross grain) for these. Pays dividends when fairing in planks or when joining 2 plank ends together.

Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Capt Podge on March 29, 2012, 09:02:52 PM
I'm staying in the background all nice and quiet but following your every move Bryan.
Lovely neat work  :-))

Oh, and congratulations ref Gold Ranger  O0

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on March 29, 2012, 09:22:38 PM

Yes indeed.  A nice bit of carpentry there Sir.   :-))


ken
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Wetwater on March 29, 2012, 11:03:33 PM
Looking good.  :-))  And what a posh building board you have.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on March 30, 2012, 04:12:27 PM
Thank you all for the interest....I hope I can sustain it!
The "building board" didn't start life looking "posh" at all. Years ago I bought a chunk of 3/4" ply to use as a building board for some model or other....but when I completed "Northumbrian" I needed some sort of stand to put it on. So I turned the board over to it's "clean" side, curved the corners and put "iron-on" trim around the edges...then varnished the whole thing with teak varnish. The underside that I'm using now still bears the scars of previous builds.  BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 01, 2012, 03:48:34 PM
Now to begin "planking".....
No sooner got the profile edge strakes cut and glued into position when the glue gun gave an almighty “bang” and became a dead glue gun. So the moral here is to always expect the unexpected…especially where money is concerned.
But now the “thing” is ready for planking. The shape of the hull doesn’t really suit the ½” plank width I normally use for proper ships, and ¼” is (in the main) too small and fiddly…but 3/8” seems to be OK. My first and unexpected task was to make a 5ft long “fence” for the bandsaw that would allow the blade guard to be lowered to around 1/16” above the ply sheet that I’m cutting. No expense here as I can use old stock…but add a “fiver” if buying. I think it will take 40 planks altogether….but I’m usually wrong.
Bandsaws aren’t really made or intended for cutting long straight anythings…or so I’ve been told by “one who knows”….but my cheap’n’cheerful long fence seems to work OK….to the annoyance of one of the neighbours. The new glue-gun is a quantum leap better than my old and cheap “Bostic” (£9) item….but at £25 it ruddy well ought to be! But as it is an unforeseen expense I’m going to add it in. So now I’m up to £52.50.
The 2 pics that accompany this episode both show a strange “wobble” in the horizontal edge strake. This is an illusion …the actual “thing” in full profile is a nice pure arc.
After fitting the 1st 3 planks nearest to the “keel” it’s quite evident that the planks are becoming reluctant to “conform” to the hull shape. Hence the fitting of a more central plank that does conform. Now I’m approaching the point where I have to consider when and where to fit “stealer” planks. Ah, problems, problems. But such is what is supposedly known as the “fun” in scratch building!
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: tugs62 on April 01, 2012, 05:10:51 PM
nice to see how its done ive often wounded how to do this  :-))



thanks from another brian :-))
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: John W E on April 01, 2012, 05:50:16 PM
hi Bryan

Have you ever considered using closed cell foam (the blue type) to block in between your frames; rather than planking?  You could then coat with car body filler and sand to shape  :-))

According to the Model Shipwright magazine numberf 84; the originals were double diagonally planked and not carvel.

aye
john
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 01, 2012, 08:37:07 PM
 John...Ooh, lovely post to reply to.
Foam.....yes, I did discuss it with my inner self and rejected it for reasons that may well become clear.
It may well be a "good" material in some instances. But I have (as always) other thoughts.
For a start...re-read MS84 again and you may well discover that only the inner layer of planking was diagonally laid. The outer one was fore and aft. And this is what I'm trying to replicate. I also believe that the outer planking was 4" wide, which makes my choice of 3/8" pretty reasonable.
     But this is a "plug" I'm making...not a "plank on frame" model. So, being aware that even on such a prestigious vessel as an Admirals Barge, there would still be indications of some plank landing edges. So it's my desire to at least give a hint of those landings on the eventual hull. It may work, or it may not.
As always with my models I'll be going down the GRP route. Strengh, longevity and all that. However, if the hull was to be a varnished and shiny one then perhaps, just perhaps, I could rustle up some long forgotten and unwanted skill to make one. Until that day arrives I think that GRP is the answer. For me, anyway.
BUT for whatever reasons you are reading this build, I'm grateful...even if it's only a dispute. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 01, 2012, 08:43:19 PM
I'm staying in the background all nice and quiet but following your every move Bryan.
Lovely neat work  :-))

Oh, and congratulations ref Gold Ranger  O0

Regards,

Ray.

Nice and quiet....ruddy typical of a sub-mariner. Enjoy the CD. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 01, 2012, 08:45:33 PM
can we have pics  i love scanin through a good old lot of pics i do  ok2
Krafty... do you also read a lot? Pictures only tel a small part of a story. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: JayDee on April 01, 2012, 09:17:16 PM
Hello Bryan,

Looking at your photos the sheer of the deck looks a bit odd.
Or is it just the camera angle??.

John.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: dreadnought72 on April 01, 2012, 09:49:08 PM
John, I'm convinced it's the camera angle.  :-))

You're looking at a sheer (dip to the midpoint, upside down here) and a curve (inwards to bow and stern) from a funny angle.

It'll work. Bryan wouldn't let us down!  O0

Andy
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 01, 2012, 10:59:13 PM
"The Funny Bulge"......
It's really a very odd one, is this. Even when looking at the actual "thing" from any angle but directly on to the profile there does appear to be an anomaly. But when viewed directly that anomaly just goes away. It worried me for awhile....OK, perhaps 10 minutes or so....until I loosely laid a vertical plank against the stations. It fitted perfectly. After a few more minutes of head scratching I realised that the combination of very slightly bending the (what do I call it?) edge plank both across the grain and logitudinally caused the unsupported outer edge to rise a little ..trying to regain its original form.  Sigh of relief. The bit I need to be "pure" is fine. Both glass optics and the human ete can play tricks!. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: JayDee on April 01, 2012, 11:34:28 PM


 OK  :-))
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: dreadnought72 on April 02, 2012, 12:18:27 AM
Both glass optics and the human ete can play tricks!. Bryan.

So true.

(http://i2.2photo.ru/medium/n/6/462911.jpg)

Andy
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 02, 2012, 12:52:27 PM
So true.

(http://i2.2photo.ru/medium/n/6/462911.jpg)

Andy
A great pic for April fools day!. Well spooted, whoever took it. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: deadwood on April 04, 2012, 10:25:45 AM
Is that the spokeswoman of the Flying Plank Trust?
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 06, 2012, 10:27:27 AM
Having learned how to suffer the pain caused by hot glue applied to flesh and with a new supply of “Elastoplast” to hand I was ready to continue. Mrs.Y says that I remind her of the old Kenny Everett sketches in which he showed how to do DIY. That’s loyalty for you I suppose.
What with the halogen heater and the halogen work-lamp going full tilt I managed a few hours planking up during the Arctic storms of the last couple of days.
1st pic (0965) shows the usefulness of having access to the interior while planking up and re-inforcing.
2nd pic (0966). That’s the palm of my hand positioning a strip of 1/32” ply (cross grain) as a reinforcing strip. This thin ply easily takes the contours of the hull and substantially strengthens it.
3rd pic (0968). The stbd side planking nearly done (port side is at the same stage). The use of the 1/32” “false framing” is clearly shown here….and is especially useful when 2 planks have to be butted together.
The keel and curvature of the stem still have to be faired in. The stern is a rather complicated shape so I’ve decided to make it as a block from car body filler…the projecting bit of the “backbone” indicates the profile, but not the squared off corners of this bit. No sanding down has yet been attempted…more joys to come.
  No more expense as the Elastoplast was “to hand”.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on April 06, 2012, 10:49:30 AM

That's tidy.  I see you wear your watch at work.    {-)

Just a quick question.  How long does the 'Hot' glue take before you can let go please ?

regards


ken
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: larry w on April 06, 2012, 11:10:38 AM
HAPPY EASTER KENNY
                                I use hot glue gun a lot , set time about 50 sec cure time 1hr but its bloody hot to the skin i wont be with out one now .
                                look out for the next Lidel diy  event that's where i bought mine and its a good .   LARRY
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 06, 2012, 12:52:28 PM
Kenny.
My "new" (but now very messy) glue gun has 2 heat settings. Hot and Very Hot. As you can imagine, a lot of the planks are twisted and bent to conform with the hull shape. Using the glue gun on its hottest setting, I find the adhesion is almost instant. Certainly not anywhere close to 50 seconds.
As for my watch. It's an Omega Constellation Chronometer that I bought in Gib during 1963. At £93 it was almost one and a half months salary! Worn it every day since then. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on April 06, 2012, 08:20:45 PM

Thank you that info guys.   :-))   I shall venture into the Hot world of sticking.

Brian, that watch is quite valuable nowadays. I thought it looked classy. That's why I mentioned it.   :}

Cheers


ken
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 09, 2012, 06:06:33 PM
More posts on the hull "plug" will follow quite soon.......
But looking ahead (as always) for looming problems one that keeps me awake at night is the pair of Dolphins that grace the rear sides of the VIP cabin.
The ones I've actually eye-balled have always been chrome plated....apparently over brass.
My problem is how to make a pair of them at 23mm high.
Any (polite) thoughts/notions/ideas etc will be welcome.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on April 09, 2012, 08:17:18 PM

That's just under an inch tall.   %)

Have a look at bathroom products in the shops. It reminds me of a typical bath type shape, either on a bottle or soap !!


ken
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on April 09, 2012, 10:34:17 PM
Maybe you could look at earrings Bryan ........ in a manly way that is  :embarrassed:
http://www.aosdanaiona.com/product/aosdana_jewellery_dolphin_earrings/

It might help to know the classic name for those dolphins - are they maybe from a crest?

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 09, 2012, 10:40:20 PM
Yeah, I used to have a similar "Dolphin" as used on towel rails, toilet roll holders and so on , but "Dolphin" don't use them any more.
I guess what I'm really after are thoughts on "material". Carving the things in one piece is more or less out of the question. So casting in some form seems to be the way to go. Would "Plasticene" do the job? The basic shape may (or not) be obtainable, and the skin scales could (repeat, could) possibly be done by just small depressions. I just don't know. hence the question! BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 09, 2012, 10:45:14 PM
Maybe you could look at earrings Bryan ........ in a manly way that is  :embarrassed:
http://www.aosdanaiona.com/product/aosdana_jewellery_dolphin_earrings/

It might help to know the classic name for those dolphins - are they maybe from a crest?

Dave
Thanks for that. The "head" part of the earing is about right, but the tail isn't. No sign of size either. But £56 seems a bit steep for a small detail on a model! Thanks anyway. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on April 09, 2012, 11:22:47 PM
Ha ha spend £56 - no just look around was all I meant Bryan %% {-)

If I see anything close (for pennies) when I'm out with my daughter I'll get them
- then you can cut up and press into plasticine if the position is wrong.
Pity it isn't Owls you want - she has a nice pair of those.

Dave
£56 - just cracks me up.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on April 10, 2012, 11:17:04 AM
Try typing   "Dolphin shape"   into Ebay, Brian.

The answer might be here.     %)


ken

Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 10, 2012, 02:29:22 PM
Ok. Finished the hull planking today…exactly one month since I first had the notion of building this model. I haven’t been “racing”, but with my bandsaw working correctly and the new glue gun really showing its paces the planking went pretty smoothly. Especially when I spent a fair amount of March sitting in a deck chair!
Made up the template for the deck edge of the aft end…yet to be proved in practice.
A problem that’s been bugging me since I started this model…..the extended keel.
When I was building “Bluebird of Chelsea” I had a problem with a similar arrangement. No problem fitting the thing and making the mould. The problem arose when laying up the actual hull within the mould. Getting the mat and resin into what is to all intents and purposes a very narrow but deepish slot was difficult, plus I was worried that my poking and prodding the resin/mat into the slot would interfere with the release agent. As it turned out there were only a few “blemishes” to be filled. So I was pondering fitting the keel and stempost after the main hull was removed from the mould….fitting them with “slow” epoxy and then pinning them to the hull. Both methods seemed to have advantages and disadvantages. So I’ve eventually decided to try to make it all in one piece again. Has anyone come up with a spray-on release agent yet? The last stuff I used was from a sample tin of (American) wax….but to buy a full tin would probably double the outlay for the plug/mould and hull combined.
Also removed the planked up plug from the board to eyeball it the right way up…looks OK so far.
      Today was a) A reminder as to why I promised myself  to never again build A GRP hull. b) I’d forgotten how tedious rubbing down “Easy Sand P38” can be. (the guy that came up with the name “EasySand” deserves some sort of award for mendacity). c) What an unholy mess the hardened “filler” looks before sanding down. All my neat(ish) planking never again to be seen by a human eye-ball. I think the rubbing down process will take longer to do than all the rest of the work done so far!
I’ve deliberately tried to make the new photos look as rough as possible…just as a warning to others who may be contemplating going down this road. Don’t get me wrong thogh…I’m not despondent about it. In fact I’m just looking forward to the day when I can see a nice smooth plug, then a nice smooth mould and then a nice smooth hull…then model making can begin. This bit is just hard labour.
More expense….£10.90 for the tin of P38. Total so far £63.40. Mounting up.
Yesterday I posted a drawing of one of the pair of decorative Dolphins …but made a stupid error. I inadvertently gave its size as 23mm…momentarily forgetting that I’m building at 2x the plan scale…so each dolphin will be 46mm tall (just under 2”) Sorry about that. A bit large for ear-rings!
One “good thing” todays efforts have brought is the success of my little template for the stern area of the hull. When I’ve got it sanded to shape I think it’ll look just fine. So I’m pleased I plumped to make the spoon stern version rather than the squared off version, although the latter version still looks very handsome….as shown by the posted drawing of one.
A note to Kenny….A nice thought to Google “Dolphin Shape”, but this pair bear no relationship to any known real dolphin. More like the whimsical things that used to be drawn on old charts alongside puffed cheeked cherubs.

Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: John W E on April 10, 2012, 06:44:47 PM
Hi there Bryan

A quick question - the mould you are going to make - is it going to be a 2 piece mould (split down the keel centre-line)?  If so, the correct professional way to overcome your problem and how they actually mould sailing yacht keels - is before the mould is assembled in 1 piece, they polish the insides of the moulds when they are separated and then lay gellcoat up (keeping the 2 moulds separate).   A layer of tissue matting goes on top of the gellcoat when it has gone green, then on top of the tissue matting there is a layer of 1 oz chopped strand matt goes over the top of the tissue matt.   This is allowed to go green - not hard - in other words still soft.  The edges which mate the mould are trimmed flush and the two halves of the mould are brought together.  Down the centre joint there is a very narrow strip of glass matting laid down, which has also been 'wetted' out with resin.  This is then forced in the narrow keel area - it is again allowed to turn green - and then once its green you commence your buildup of matting and resin - without fear of you poking through and disturbing your gellcoat/release agent.

Last bit, if you have a couple of old 'inner-tube Air valves' you can incorporate these into your mould - when you are building it - in areas next to the keel.  So, when you come to release the mould from your plug - and also your hull from the mould - you can inject hot water or compressed air through them.   Obviously, you remove the valve interiors and plug with a bit of wax to stop the resin/gell running through.    It does leave a bit of a mark on the hull, but this can be polished out.

Aye
john
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 10, 2012, 09:37:15 PM
A “quick question” John? I think not.
First of all, I’m not moulding a yacht keel.
Secondly, as you very well know, I’m not exactly a newcomer to the art of building GRP hulls, so there’s no real need to address me as a juvenile.
Again, as you are very much aware, I’m equally conversant with making split moulds…my recent successes at the Shields show should have taught you that.
No, what you are trying to achieve is to pre-empt my future posts on the build of this model. Your solution to the “filling” of the narrow channel which will form the keel and skeg is not the way I intend doing it. I quite enjoy at least trying out new ways of doing things rather than just going down the same old roads.
As far as I can see at the moment, the only “error” I’ve made so far was this morning when I (mistakenly) used the remains of an elderly tin of P38….hence the rubbish finish. I caught this error in time to realise my error….and the use of new "gloop” has produced a surface more to my liking. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Netleyned on April 12, 2012, 04:37:46 PM
Brian
Have a look at Captain Podge's Avatar.
The Submariners Dolphin badge has two dolphins
at 28mm each.They are the long nose species so if
you can get hold of a badge they might work.
Just measured mine and they would be 25mm with the nose
shortened.

Ned
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 12, 2012, 05:59:14 PM
Ned, I talk to "Podge" every Sunday and never once thought of that! I think I may twist his (non-podgy) arm a little and have a ganders at the "fish". I wouldn't be at all surprised if the RN had stuck to tradition and sort of made the sub-mariners things the same, but smaller, than the ones I'm looking to make. Thanks for the bit of sideways thinking!. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Kim on April 12, 2012, 09:01:31 PM
Would "Plasticene" do the job? The basic shape may (or not) be obtainable, and the skin scales could (repeat, could) possibly be done by just small depressions. I just don't know. hence the question! BY.

I quite enjoy at least trying out new ways of doing things rather than just going down the same old roads.

Hi Bryan,

I know what you mean buy travelling old roads ... maybe this stuff might interest you for your Dolphin ...
http://www.trycut.co.uk/

Also and this is just a guess, without seeing the actual plug ...
The hull may be able to be one piece moulded, with the wood effect ? (we do your Bluebird in one piece  :-)) )
You know where i am if you'd like to chat..
Regards,
Kim
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 13, 2012, 02:46:12 PM
Kim….do I detect a slight quiver of interest here? The Barge hull is in many ways not dissimilar to that of “Bluebird”, with the obvious exception of the “spoon” stern.
The link to “Trycut” is interesting (more than interesting really) but I don’t have the machining equipment to carve such an intricate item.
    I’m rather chuffed that you appear to be following this new build, but as I’m still at the mind numbing “rubbing down” and fairing up the plug this part of the build is a slow process…as far as writing about is concerned, at least.
As this build will in all probability be my last one (earlier statements to that effect notwithstanding!) I’d dearly love it to be my best model ever. Sight problems will just have to be (hopefully) coped with.
Alas, as with much “stuff” in my “filing system” I’ve lost your personal e-mail address. Could you remind me of it and I’ll send you a more pertinent e-mail. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: TailUK on April 13, 2012, 03:52:15 PM
About your dolphins!  Have you looked at Submariner's lapel badges. Here's an American one!  I don't know how big they are but they might serve your turn.
(http://s15.postimage.org/d5zj8j7wn/Bfhy_Veg_2k_KGr_Hq_YH_DQErfcy_D_TQBLBr_V2voog_12.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/d5zj8j7wn/)

and that's what I get for not looking to see if someone else had already suggested it ... on page 2.  Doh!!!!
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 13, 2012, 05:00:40 PM
TaiiUK.....don't fret about it! Actually you did me a bit of a favour. Having the "dolphins" on screen meant that I could enlarge and print. They really do bear out my earlier comments about the RN never changing a design that works (for good or ill, in some cases).
The tail on the badge seems a bit "twisted"....but that's no problem. But I'll wait and see what "Podge" shows me. So thanks to those who have taken and interest and provided some help, perhaps there could be a glimmer of light appearing! Still have to make the things though. The link that "Kim" included in the last post is really interesting.....but as yet I can't see how a set-up that is mainly a lathe and small(ish) mill/drill machine can be used to produce such a convoluted shape. Meanwhile, back to polluting the neighbours washing with P38 dust. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Capt Podge on April 13, 2012, 07:05:30 PM
I'll be honest here Bryan - I didn't think the RN dolphins would be suitable for this application however, I shall see you on Sunday, bearing gifts....... :-))

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Kim on April 14, 2012, 08:29:39 AM
Hi Bryan,
Me, interested? .... You bet!

Regards the Try cut stuff i have offcuts that i could send down to you to play with.

Wax carvers / Dentist tools work on it rather well and the beauty is its re useable / re formable or you could be lucky and find say a brass master .. heat the master and depress into the material, let cool and hey presto a mould is born... But i'm never that lucky lol

Will send a PM with email address now-

Regards,
Kim
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 17, 2012, 06:21:48 PM
In the time honoured fashion, I sprayed the semi-smoothed half plug with “paint”…to allow me to see the blemishes better. Without thinking too much about it I just picked out a can of Halfords colour spray (no expense, just from “stock”…but I suppose I’d better add £3 to the total (£66.40). When I re-commenced the rubbing down process I began to realise how resistant these modern car paints are to damage, never mind rubbing down. Like sanding a diamond. Mistake number 2 (?). Choose a softer non-gloss paint instead. So more expense required….£5 for “Wet’n’Dry” and a “Flexi-pad”. These little things tot up. Now £71.40. (But of course the £25 for the glue gun was “optional”, so it could be “only” £46.40.).
More expense…High-build primer @ £11.00
              White appliance paint  @       £7.50
Total so far……£ 65.00
White “Appliance” paint? That’s the name given to the paint used on ‘fridges and so on. I don’t need it yet, but as I was “up there” at Halfords  I though I may as well, petrol being the price it is. However. If you’ve never used this paint, and you wish to spray something white then this is the bees knees. Especially a white hull. I first experimented with this (with some trepidation) on the hull of “Bluebird of Chelsea” and was absolutely bowled over by it. Easy to spray. Quick drying. Tough as nails. I can’t recall how many years it is since “Bluebird” took to the water, but the “white” is still as pure as it was on the day it was first sprayed. No “yellowing”, shrugs off minor damage and all that. Try it.
OK. I promised you a “warts’n’all” build …..and as usual some of you sceptics have been proved correct about the “kink” in the sheerline margin (horizontal) strip. It  seemed all-right at first but during the initial rubbing down it became obvious that I’d made a small error somewhere. It proved to be at station no.8. At first I thought the 2 stations 7 and 9 were too high, which would make correction very difficult….but it was no.8 that was too low. Much easier to fix. The “displacement” was only 2mm, but photos really draw the eyeball to errors. All just goes to prove the old adage of “Measure Twice…and Cut Once”. Not an expensive error, but mentally and physically a “downer”.  No doubt there’ll be more to come.
  I won’t bore you any longer. BY.





Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 20, 2012, 07:44:03 PM
I’ve been pondering long and hard about this keel and stem-post. The pair of them should really be only ¼” thick on the model. I wasn’t altogether happy about that as “pond damage” could foreseably bring unwanted problems. So I eventually decided on a base unit of ½” square and tapered towards the for’d end to ¼”. But then I realised that I’d have to make the keel/skeg in 2 parts. The nice flat “main” part of the unit, and a second curved section (the aft end). The easiest way of fitting these 2 bits was to dowel them to the base structure using 1/8” dowel. That worked OK. Then sort of “rough cut” the after curved section….similarly dowelled. Only the part of the curved section being trimmed to “almost” fit. Bedded the 2 sections down on to P38 and waited to see how it looked when set. A mess. More rubbing down and all that.
The photos show only the “back-end before final rubbing down, fairing in and priming. (Another aerosol of filler-primer required….cost now up to £76).
Honestly and truly, I’ve tried to keep the costs to a minimum commensurate with quality…….and also writing as if to a first time maker of a GRP hull who’d have to (possibly) buy all the stuff. Of course you can use cheaper materials, but I’ve learned over the years that going for “cheap” is not a good idea.
By now, and I’m not even close to finishing the “plug”, you may be beginning to understand why what a simple GRP hull costs so much. I’ve been with this thing for about a full month of “average” working hours. Those hours haven’t been costed in…work that out for yourself. Nor has power consumption…..as Mrs Y has reminded me! Next just has to be the stem. Also will have to be in 2 parts.
And don’t forget that you, your loved ones and the washing machine will wish that all this activity was taking place on some isolated island far from home. BY,
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on April 21, 2012, 12:24:22 AM
Plenty off interest in this build , I enjoy all your posts and builds

Peter
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 24, 2012, 07:14:15 PM
This hull is becoming a real pain in the butt. It’s not so much that I don’t want to do it, more an unexpected and subtle change in the shape of the hull where least expected.
Another weird thing is that no matter how powerful my new work lamp is, taking the plug out into sunlight shows up more flaws than I’d dreamed possible. After all, I’d rubbed down, filled and re-sprayed so many times that I thought that no more “faults” could be seen. Wrong. Tiny little nicks, hollows and bumps become earthquake size when viewed in proper sunlight. I feel a cloud of depression coming on. I really want to make this a “good” hull….but the damn thing seems to be fighting me all the way. Nothing for it but to just carry on, I suppose.
     I can imagine you all thinking “why do all this?” Well, mainly because of the longevity of a GRP hull. But equally important is the (eventual) realisation that it’s “my” model and not something at least half built by someone else. It’s also because if I want to build “something” there’s an almost 100% chance that it would have to be a “one-off”,  In the case of this particular model….I’m vaguely aware that hulls for this vessel are available. Most that I know of are at  ½” to the foot (1:24), whereas I want 1” = 1ft (1:12 scale). Also, the hulls I think I know of are modelled on the square transom version….and I wish to have the “spoon” tailed type. No argument. Have to make my own. Not that (in this case) I really want to do so, but needs must. Part of the “joy” of modelling?
I know that making ones own hull is not for everyone…..but nor is making a model that is simply a clone of almost every other model. Personal choice. But reading the many posts on this forum I can’t help but wonder just how interested some of the “builders” are in the vessel they are building.
   The 2 photos attached here are of the hull “plug” after being given a quick spray of the white “Appliance” paint. I’ve deliberately toned down the “whiteness”, otherwise all you’d see is a large white “blob”; so ignore the colouration….it is actually blindingly “white” in real life. Next stage? More rubbing down before final coats of the rock-hard white is sprayed.  After that? Heaven alone knows. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on April 24, 2012, 08:16:57 PM
taking the plug out into sunlight shows up more flaws than I’d dreamed possible.

I've recently learned not to apply primer before looking at the surface in daylight.
It really looked fine in the shed under electric lighting. I won't forget the lesson.
Still enjoying your build too.

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 24, 2012, 09:17:25 PM
Amazing what a change of "light" can show. But therin lies a conundrum.  Half the time in the UK the weather is either too wet, too windy or snowy. So a retreat to a "shed" is called for. Then after a few months of "hibernation" one can look at what's been produced and realis, with a sinking heart, that all loves labours have been lost (more or less). No wonder a sort of depression cuts in!
Muddle through, and just hope the man with the scythe isn't on his way towards you. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 29, 2012, 10:16:10 PM
Now, this is probably an “odd-ball” post….but bear with me.
As some of you long time members on this forum may recall, in the past I’ve always made my own “plugs”,”moulds” and GRP hulls. But something called “time” has intervened. Some call it “Age”. A strange word that means nothing to those who have yet to encounter it.
But there comes a time when the word “Time” has to be acknowledged. I’ve heard the Word.
So I’m not going to go through the palaver and mess of making my own mould and hull this time. I reckon that having made 13 of the things is quite enough for an amateur such as myself.
This time it will be different.
If I made my own mould and hull I reckon that would cost me (roughly) around £150 or so for materials. Add a few more £ for brushes, rollers and acetone  then you could be easily looking at around £200…
Then add into that the cost of the “plug”……I’m looking at £80 now.
So from start to finish. Original “thoughts” through making a plug, mould and a final hull will cost you somewhere in the region of £300.
For a “one off” model hull that’s a lot of loot…….although the GRP hull still has it’s many advantages.
Now. Considering all that, and realising that there would be around 2 months or more of physical work involved…..how much do you think that it costs a “professional”? Two months work (salary). Heating, lighting, rent for premises…..the list can go on.
And that’s why the hulls you buy cost a lot. Something that would cost you, as an individual, about £300.
The only problem here though, is that the manufacturers may not be producing a hull that’s of the ship you wish to model. What then?
Then you have to get down and dirty.
I really admire those builders who can produce a superb “plank on frame” model, but to my way of thinking it’s all a bit of a waste of time……unless, of course the model is supposed to look like a wooden plank on frame boat. A bit daft for a model Container ship.
So…having made the “plug” for my Admirals Barge, I send it off to a “pro” to make me a hull.
Continue later. BY.



Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on April 30, 2012, 01:54:17 AM
Hi Bryan

I understand what you mean. Two years ago 'time' had a little conversation with me. After thirty five years of working six and seven days a week
I stopped everything barr working my rostered hours. Life is a lot better.

Looking forward to your build too.

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 30, 2012, 06:58:22 PM
Spent a fair amount of a really grotty weekend using the computer to re-size and print out the various drawings at 1:12 scale.....and the more I look at them the more complicated the whole thing gets. One "bugbear" is the sheer amount of windows in the cabin section. So I'm now toying with the notion of building the cabin section out of 1/16" clear perspex and adding the various bits of veneer to the perspex. Could work.
Until I printed out the drawings I hadn't noticed that the cabin sides actually lean inwards by a few degrees....another interesting problem to get over!
But although the model is really quite small at just over 50" long and 9" wide, the quantity of veneer required (inside and out) is a bit daunting.
I've also reached the conclusion that the polished brass funnel and its base is way beyond my capabilities.
So the final model will not be all my own work. Three members of Tynemouth Model Boat Club have volunteered their services to help me out. They will be named later in the build.
It seems "odd" to me that what appears at first glance to be a fairly straightforward vessel to build, suddenly gets extremely complicated when brought up to 1:12 scale.

I suppose perseverence is the name of the game. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: tugs62 on April 30, 2012, 07:50:04 PM
ive been watching your build because ive got a set of plans and would like to build this but i think the hull is way behond me  i keep looking on ebay for a cheap one keep the good work up  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on April 30, 2012, 10:07:06 PM
ive been watching your build because ive got a set of plans and would like to build this but i think the hull is way behond me  i keep looking on ebay for a cheap one keep the good work up  :-)) :-))
What scale are your plans? I suspect that they are at 1:24, making a model of around 25". Just look at the detail required if you double the size to 1:12. My choice, my problems.
The hull is a bit trickier than i thought it would be....but all the info re the lines and stations are on the plans. Look at the way I'm building it and perhaps convert some ideas to your way of thinking. Go ahead. Try it. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on May 01, 2012, 06:47:41 PM
     Tuesday 1st May 2012. And still the full-frontal freezing wind doth blow.
And more expenditure . My local supplier of 1/16” ply didn’t have any so I finished up paying £8.50 for sheet 12” x 48” (normally I’d pay £7 for a 12” x 60” sheet). And a pack of Stanley knife blades at £3.20.
Total now up to £91.70. All those “little things” begin to add up.
Having used the computer/ printer scaling facility I’ve printed out all parts of the cabin….2 dimensional, obviously. Silly mistake no. “x”…I forgot to do a mirror image of the side elevation. No big deal, just another embuggeration.
By the way, the more attentive reader may have noticed that I’ve decided against making the “unit” from thin “Perspex”. It takes “glue” OK, but does have tendency to crack in odd places while being cut…and drilling small holes in it can be “counter-productive”…..hence the reversion to 2mm ply.
Todays main problem was how to transfer my scale paper prints onto the ply.
As an experiment (potentially an expensive one), I bought an aerosol of “Stick & Stay”. (another £6.00 making £97.70). The stuff used to stick photos etc to a backing board. Then simply stuck the drawings on to the ply and cut around the edges. A simple beginning. I guess the next stage will have to be cutting out the windows before cutting out the large aperture for the double sliding access doors on the rear cabin bulkhead. These 2 doors have slide within the cabin…although I’m not sure why that should be. …I think I may take the easier option and keep them on the outside….that saves making a triple thickness bulkhead.
The length of this cabin and open seating area is around 12.5” and as you (hopefully) can see, the “floors” are not at the same level. As I want to be able to remove / replace the entire unit in one piece for access, the interior side panels will have to conform to the shape of the hull. haven’t worked that part out yet.





Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on May 07, 2012, 05:25:34 PM
I haven't abandoned you! Still ploughing along trying to make some sort of sense out of "things". The topside visible parts of the cabin bear no relationship whatsoever to the floor plans. All comes down to the hull shape. As soon as I get my hull (hopefully within the next week) I'll have a better idea of how to make this chicken fit into its egg. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on May 07, 2012, 07:23:35 PM
I didn't feel abandoned Bryan, everything takes time to do properly.

Just going back to building costs - a full size sheet of 18mm mdf (and cut to sizes)
was far cheaper at B&Q today than it was for two much smaller peices. That's madness,
but worth knowing. I also bought the largest 6mm ply I could fit in the car.

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on May 07, 2012, 10:05:31 PM
When I buy 2mm ply from my local supplier they are quite willing to cut me a sheet 12" x 72" either "long grain" or "cross grain" at £7.00. This is streets cheaper than the price model shops charge.
I've never really felt the need to use MDF in a model. But speaking of MDF.....it's long intrigued me....is there such stuff as LDF or HDF? Cheers. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on May 07, 2012, 11:09:58 PM
The 18mm MDF is just for a heavy base board at 36mm - but it is going to be big enough for any build I might undertake.
I'm just preparing for an Xbow build. I got some advice I trust hence the base - it's probably a bit thicker than I was told
to get but that's what was on the shelf. LDF and HDF? No idea Bryan. I would worry about MDF and water but maybe
someone has had success sealing it?

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on May 14, 2012, 06:26:30 PM
 I really thought that I had the cabin build sorted out.  But t’was not to be.
As soon as I started to put the bits together I realised that the plans, drawings..call them what you wish, bore as much resemblance to the real thing as a ghost does when wafting around an old castle. That is, 2 dimensional and ephemeral. Not a good start for a model.
So 3 weeks work was binned. Start anew.
Not really much financial loss as the 2mm ply will be used elsewhere. The only financial concerns at the moment is the cost of blades for the trusty old Stanley Knife. The life of the blades can be measured in minutes when cutting 2mm ply…. And at £3 per pack, it all adds up.
Eventually ….eventually (must be an age thing)…I realised that the only “constant” within the confines of the cabin was the width of the seats. This, in turn, told me where the “floor”(deck) of the cabin would have to be. This bears no relation whatsoever to the plan view at deck level.
So. In the “main cabin” the seats are straight (vertical) backed, and the seat legs are just far enough within the hull sides to be usable.
Therefore the floor shape tapers to suit the hull shape at that  particular level.
But the deck itself slopes upwards from for’d to aft.
And the rear section is totally different.
    Still plodding along (11th of May) . Bought some 0.8mm teak veneer ( at £4.00) and some more double sided tape (£5.00)
So let’s call it £105 so far.
But the cost of the hull, if I was doing it myself would be around £150. So expenditure can be realistically assumed to be £255.

Sorry if I’m repeating myself a bit here. Must be another “age thing”
Trying to describe the undescribable.....
    It’s been a while since I had anything useful to say about this build, but most of that time has been spent trying to make some sort of sense out of the various convolutions in the 3 dimensional shape of the cabin unit. Looks easy, but it isn’t…especially when I want to be able to remove/replace the entire structure in one piece.
  More cost.
Pick the bones out of this lot.
Obviously this is only the stbd side, with the front shown as a bonus.
The "broken" line is the line of the steering chain, so the actual deck level is the line immediately below it, all the rest sits within the hull.
Apart from the step-down into the main cabin, the entire thing is at different levels and also at different angles of "slant".
OK, that looks straight forward enough. But then the cabin sides slope inwards by about 10* from just above deck level, as can be seen on the cabin front b'head.
Then, however, the "vertical" bits of both the main cabin and the open-air" seating area stop at the seat back level becuse of the hull shape. So the decks have to be just wide enough to accept the seat posts, which in turn means a fair amount of unsupported structure until the whole thing is fastened together. Hence the idea of using "tabs". They "sort of" work, but I daren't use anything stronger than masking tape at the moment.
I'll attempt to get you a 3D photo soon.
Regards......a hungry and frustrated Bryan.





Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on May 29, 2012, 06:31:50 PM
Time to continue. Sorry for the delay but "unforeseen" factors came into play.
11/12 of May. 2 months into the build.
Plodding along with the veneering and inset panelling on the aft b’hd of the cabin.
But more expense. £20 for 4 cans of spray varnish. “ of matte and 2 of satin finish, and a 12” length of small brass channel then will be used as sliders for the cabin doors.
Cost now up to £275.
Still think scratch-building is the “cheap” way of doing things? So far I’ve had less than £10 worth of “wastage”.
21st of  May. A glimmer (perhaps a Beacon) of light today. Apparently my hull is winging its way towards me. In the meantime much work has been done on the cabin section. Now I’ve called a temporary halt to this work …. Just in case I can’t get the “unit” to fit into the hull.
But the costs still rise. Another £20 for more Satin aerosol lacquer and “wood” mouldings for the fancy bits surrounding the cabin area. Now up to £295.
Actually it’s £300 as I forgot the plastic channel I bought for the window frames.
I’m unpleasantly surprised how much the cost of all things “modelling” have risen over the last couple of years (since I completed “Northumbrian”.
28th May and a giant step forward.
Today I took receipt of 2 GRP hulls. Two hulls? Yep. This came about because the original hull wasn’t delivered to me because the address label had been either disfigured or otherwise rendered unreadable in transit. So when I complained about late delivery” (a euphanism for “non-delivery) a second hull was made for me. Then the first one was recovered …so I’ve finished up with 2 of them. Lucky me.
As you know, these hulls have been made from my original “plug”.  The deal being that I would sell the plug for what it had cost me plus a free hull from the plug. Then the plug would belong entirely to the buyer. But I had another requirement. I wanted the hull that was delivered to me to be a “pre-production” item, showing the blemishes, faults and so on that I would see if I’d made my own mould. That way I figured that I could still call it “my hull”. Any hull made for sale will no doubt be made without the odd errors/blemishes due to my cack-handedness.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 03, 2012, 06:54:29 PM
Still plodding along.
Sunday, 3rd of June 2012.
Took a few steps sideways today. After marking out the housing positions on the rough cut deck and proved that the deck cabin I’ve spent (so far) about 6 weeks building would actually fit into the required “deck hole”. That’s to say that the unit will fit into the deck…but not into the hull. That was expected. But much thought and measuring is still needed . It’s the tapering shape of the hull towards the stern that’s causing me some grief. The rear cabin deck (the “open” part is about a foot higher than the deck in the main (covered) cabin. In “plan” view this 12” long unit tapers in a compound curve from front (7.5” wide) to the rear of the open cockpit ( at 5.5” wide).
After sticking the paper drawings to a sheet of 1.5mm ply, the various parts were cut out to “full” size. No adjustment being made for the thickness of the ply. I’d already decided to “lock” the various components together with a series of keys and slots. These are visible in the attached photos. So far so good. But how to disguise the keyed joints. I hadn’t a clue. So much for forward planning. But eventually (after some “refreshment”) I realised that the interior of everything should be veneered first. Time consuming, but both therapeutic and eventually quite satisfying. I’m using 0.8mm mahogany veneer for most of it, but using a slightly different shade of  0.5mm veneer for things like seat backs….or indeed, wherever I think it would look most effective. All clagged down with double side tape. Although the whole thing is taking an age, it would have been twice as long if I’d been using glue. Plus the fact that I know from past experience that the tape is more waterproof than even the so-called waterproof Evostick” offering. Just have to be careful with the tape as it sticks as fast as superglue….which is why I lay “oversize” and trim later.
   Veneering the “outside” brought a bit of a bonus. By laying the veneer oversize it became obvious that the veneer would cover the slotted holes and so disguise the method of attaching 2 bulkheads perpendicular to each other. Serendipity. An added bonus is that I can now use the slight remaining “stickiness” at the back of the slots to temporarily fit the various bits together instead of clarting about with masking tape and so on.
As with most veneers, this stuff gobbles up the first few coats of (spray) lacquer quicker than a hungry squaddie. At least 3 coats, all gently rubbed down, before I’d even consider a coat of “Satin”. I’m using satin ‘cos I really don’t think a model suits being done over with gloss. My choice.
The ¼” “battens” are the seat bearers. The seats being 1.25” wide ( only 15” in real life). The position of the seat legs will dictate the width of the deck at that point….which, in turn, will tell me where to do some cutting (I hope).
  The last photo is a not particularly good one of my funnel.
Being a sort of “monarchist” ( especially today), I’ve used a suitably adorned cigarette lighter to give a sense of scale/size. This was made for me by a fellow club member called Jake Kelso. I think he worked as a senior machinist at Smiths Docks since around the time of WW1. But he’s made a lovely job of the funnel and so I publicly thank him.
Still many miles to travel with this boat, but it’s starting to get interesting instead of just being a head-scratcher. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 12, 2012, 06:44:29 PM
It’s been a little while since my last post on this build, but the next few posts could give an idea as to what I’ve been at least trying to do.
The building of the main cabin and the “cockpit” continues, albeit at a snails-pace. Not through want of trying …more to do with the structure of the thing. Many hours of lying awake in the middle of the night wondering, pondering and rejecting ideas. The average sort of stuff a scratch builder does. My problem has been the 2 different deck levels and the way of getting a removeable unit to fit inside the hull.
Today I found the answer. Up until now I’d been working on building “downwards” from the cabin deck. But then it seemed obvious that once the main structure was made (but not fitted), then begin to build “upwards” and cut away the bits that didn’t fit into the hull.
Of course there’s a simple reason why “things” didn’t fit. I’d done all my measurements on the “outside” dimensions….before I had a hull. So a combination of my silliness and ignoring the thickness of the GRP hull almost drove me to tears.
Point to remember…..get the hull before you start making any structure.
If the weather hadn’t been so abysmal I’d have spent days just sitting in a deckchair feeling sorry for myself. But the cold, the wind and the rain kept me plodding along.
The main structure is all 1.6mm ply. If I was going to do this again I’d seriously consider using styrene sheet as a base. But I’m too far along now to change it all.
The prime veneer is 0.8mm mahogany, which looked fine until I gave it a coat of lacquer. Yeuch. So a tin of “Ronseal” Teak satin varnish was used over the mahogany. Sounds stupid, but it worked a treat.
The photo is of the interior port forward corner of the main cabin. No windows or mahogany seats fitted as yet. The little sticks are just there to hold the contraption together. It may be possible to see and understand why the hull shape dictates the width of the lower deck area.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 20, 2012, 10:50:11 PM
I forgot to remind you that this “lump” is 13” long, 7” wide and 5.5” high….although only about 2.5” of that height will be visible over the main deck level. The prop shaft will have to run under this superstructure. Obviously, as we don’t want our Admiral and his guests to be obliged to witness “mechanical stuff”.
I’ve been browsing the various sites on this subject….and one that took my eye was (is?) a kit form of an Admirals Barge. Painted light blue. Looks horrible. But when reading Captain Stapletones book (RN and RFA Rtd), he does mention that some Admirals were allowed to paint “their” barges in whatever colour they desired. With the advent of people of the feminine sort into the RN, how long will it take before one of them becomes an Admiral and decides to have a pink one?
I know I’ve been banging on a bit about the shape of the inside of the hull dictating the shape of the cabin “lump” that has to fit within the hull.
At last I think I’ve managed it. This is just penchant of mine….that I like everything to be “removable” when needs be. So photo 1040 (the 1st one) is just trying to show how the unseen bits had to be arranged.  It would make for a much easier build if this cabin structure was simply built into the hull…permanently. But we all have our little foibles (?) and access to the hull interior is just one of mine.
   The second photo (1042) is really just to show the downward step from the cockpit area to the main cabin. Not all that successfully, I think. Perhaps the 3rd one (1043) will show the step better.
On (in?) the real boat the seats were supported by sort of normal chair legs. So looking under the seats would show the inside of the hull. That’s no good to me. So I decided to make the seats (benches) look as if they could also be used as storage spaces. This also stiffened the structure of the cabin “lump” Not so evident here is the sloping backrest in the aft seat of the cockpit.
My intention is to make cushions for the seats at some future date, but until then the bare varnished wood jobs will have to suffice. There are quite a few different woods used in the interior bit of this model. It doesn’t really matter what they are (Teak, Mahogany, Cherry and Maple), but they were chosen for “contrast”. It’s actually quite surprising how much the colour contrast between 2 apparently similar bits of wood changes when a coat of lacquer is applied.
The last3 pics are just record shots of the almost completed structure…except that the last one shows the fitted but incomplete aft bulkhead and doors to the cabin.
My original intention was to have the 2 sliding doors operational, but when I had a little think about it I realised it was all a bit pointless. Reason? Well, this boat isn’t exactly another “Bluebird of Chelsea” is it. Even though it’s an Admirals Barge it isn’t going to be loaded down with luxury. I might (repeat “might”) put a small table in the cabin …some of them did, but they were really all part and parcel of a major warship.
As an afterthought, weight on this model is going to be important. Although the model is 51” long, I reckon that if I work to an all up weight of 20lb I won’t be far off.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 25, 2012, 09:24:11 PM
Cabin windows and frames. What a nasty fiddly job this can be. As always, I look for an easy solution. Except that there isn’t one. The holes cut into the main structure were supposed to be accurate….but sods law being what it is, they weren’t. But that’s my fault. All squared up now and the windows are fitted. The large windows (about 1.5” x 1”) are framed within plastic channelling…the actual “glazing” is 1mm sheet stuff  and is glued into the plastic channel with “Modellers Glue, very effective stuff. The plastic channel as bought is white, and took perhaps 6 coats of Ronseal coloured varnish to make it look like wood. But this is where my inaccuracies when cutting out the window “holes” became an advantage…I had room to sand down the holes to enable a snug fit for the framed windows. If you’ve never done this before may I suggest that you leave the backing film attached to the glazing. This prevents all sorts of unwanted marks appearing on the windows. ( It took a couple of windows before this simple fact hit home). The backing film peels off quite easily when the glue is set.
    It’s been awhile since I totted up the expenditure. But as a few of the purchases are mainly for experimental reasons the figures are a bit skewed. I last reported that I’d spent £300. This has increased a bit. Another £50 has been spent on such mundane “stuff” as new paint brushes, glue, 1.6mm ply, plastic strip of various sections, ¼” balsa sheet (more on that later). But  anyway, as of June 24th I’m now up to £350. That’s all spread over 3.5 months since I started in March.                                             
Two subjects have been exercising the brain for awhile now.  One is the removable roof for the cabin and the other is (are?) the seat cushions.
    This is where “experimentation” comes in. The “real” boats had the seat covers made from “hide”. That was a bit of a poser until I remembered from years ago that I’d bought and used a product made by “Fablon” that was a self adhesive mock leather.  A seat cushion is generally about 3” thick, so at this scale I’m looking at a ¼” thick base.  But the cushions were “buttoned”. So a flexible “padding” was needed. I tried dense foam….no good. Try Balsa. Magic. But here’s where one of those “needless” expenses comes in. I only needed about a square foot of the Fablon..but had to buy a square metre. Yikes! Pricey.  Same with the Balsa (not a wood I generally have to hand)…another fiver for that. See how the cash evaporates. I’m going to end up with more “left-overs” than I actually used.
The “Fablon” stuff, although supposedly self-adhesive is as adhesive to Balsa as a “post-it” note. Although it does conform to creases around sharp edges. Belt and braces time. Double-sided tape and lay the Fablon over it. That works.  Now for the “Buttons”. I’d already realised that the button pattern is arranged at the cross point of 2 diagonals. Easy (I thought …wrongly). I “sort-of” drew the diagonals in what I thought were ½” squares. Looked ok until I pushed in a few brass pins and saw what a horlicks it all was. Lesson learned. But using the edge of a steel rule pressed down on the Fablon and into the Balsa did give a “quilted” effect. So that bit works.
The photo shows the crap first effort that will be junked. I’ll try harder next time!
    I was going to put up a pic of the window framing….but then, they’re just window frames, and we all have them.
A much more complicated thing is the cabin roof with its double curvature. Easy if permanently fixed…not so if removable.






Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Guy Bagley on June 25, 2012, 10:02:30 PM
watching this build at every stage... ( i have  hull aquired  many years ago  up in the loft  thats not massively different ! )


keep up the good work !
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: essex2visuvesi on June 26, 2012, 08:23:55 AM
Thats some rather nice looking upholstery a clever way of doing the buttoned finish
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 26, 2012, 10:07:44 AM
Thats some rather nice looking upholstery a clever way of doing the buttoned finish
Thanks....but not good enough! But I think the basic idea is worth developing. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: essex2visuvesi on June 26, 2012, 10:55:32 AM
Thanks....but not good enough! But I think the basic idea is worth developing. Bryan.

I think the problem is that the vinyl you used is too thick so it doesnt shape properly. Im going to have a play with this technique as I can see some potential for my Huntsman.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 26, 2012, 04:03:55 PM
Essex.....no, you've got it a bit wrong here. I wasn't really expecting a pristine/usable result here. It was made only to see if the concept works and what pitfalls to avoid later. The "leatherette" is actually too thin (once the backing sheet has been removed) to measure the thickness accurately. So no problem there. The first point I must address is to make a proper template. The backing paper is helpful here as it's all marked into squares...to large for my purposes, but are a good guide. I'm working towards a 6" square which is 1/2" at this scale. Then my marking out was really just rough and ready. The "long" sides (back and front) are easy enough..slightly mor difficult if you radius the front edge of the underlying balsa as I did, to give a nice curve. The end bits stick well to the double-sided tape, but I'll have to take more care with the trimming and shaping. So next time around I really don't know which to do first. Stick the leatherette to the balsa or draw the pattern (back to front) before cutting.  Both ways have advantages and disadvantages. Suck it and see I suppose.
At the moment I'm tending towards cutting and fitting the leatherette first, then accurately this time, draw the squares and button positions on to a strip of masking tape, placing the masking tape on the cushion and simply prick holes into the balsa. Could work.
But then there's the "button" problem. Or to be more correct, the cutting off the excess that sticks out through the bottom side of the balsa (1/4" thick = 3"). I tried using "clippers" last time, but this just succeeded in proving that every forse has an equal and opposite reaction. Perhaps a dab of superglue on the underside might work. I would have used 1/4" domed tacks if I could find any...but on second thoughts, cutting off the excess is easier if longer ones are used. I think that I'm going to finish up using a cutting disc in the drill. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 26, 2012, 09:24:44 PM
watching this build at every stage... ( i have  hull aquired  many years ago  up in the loft  thats not massively different ! )


keep up the good work !

Two forms of this boat. Leaving the length to one side. there's the Flat Transom version that is most common nowadays as it's easier to build; and the "spoon" or yacht stern version that brings with it many problems. It seems to be in my nature that I generally plump for the more difficult version. Possibly because there are less of them around....but they are "prettier".
If ("If") you wish to use use your long forgotten hull, then be prepared to spend many weeks at least attempting to get the internal and external woodwork reasonably correct. Good luck. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 28, 2012, 06:20:40 PM
Another £35 spent today. I’ve decided to use an MFA “Torpedo 800” motor. That was £26. Slow(ish) speed but lots of torque…or so I’m told. But it could be driving a 3” prop. Even a pack of the brass “nails was £2, as was a pack of modelling “clay” (the bakeable sort) so I can experiment with making these 2 ruddy dolphins.
So now I’m up to £385! No wonder kits cost so much.
    Following on from 2 recent answers/postings, I’ve spent an hour (no more) making the Mark 2 seat. Quite a difference. This one is quite usable as a fitting within the main cabin….the yet to be made cushions for the (outside) cockpit area will have to be better again. Oh,Lord. But I’ve got plenty of “internal” ones to make so I should get better at it!
    Meanwhile, the roofing of the cabin is coming along reasonably OK. But another quandary.
For a model I’m tempted to opt for a fully planked roof. Nicely polished and varnished. But in “real life” the cabin roof was invariably covered with “Corticene”…a sort of Linoleum (Lino) that most of you will be too young to remember. Sort of a dull medium brown stuff. I guess I can always give it a try and if I don’t like it then do something else.
    But today was the day I had to confront a most niggling problem. The unsupported weight/strength of the projecting part of the cabin roof (the bit above where the Dolphins are supposed to fit). A very solid “belt’n’braces” had to be used here for reasons that will become apparent later on.
The 1st pic really only shows the 2 projecting “spurs”…with the addition of 2 small (1/4”) sections of plastic angle for additional support. These are simply fixed with a contact adhesive.  Of the various “slots”, the centre one is to support the middle stringer of the removable part, but the pair to either side will be part of the permanent bracing structure. The main cross-member seen in pic2 is the forward one of 3.
    “Later”…..Writing this in the middle of the worst thunderstorm we’ve had for at least 7 years. One or 2 of my neighbours have mild flooding ….we only have an embryo lake in the garden (no, it isn’t deep enough for what you’re thinking). As usual, the council clean the streets but neglect the drains, so they get choked with leaves and so on. But I reckon we’re better off compared to many.
    Pics 3 & 4 simply show the 2 bracing struts in place and the main “uncut” cross-member in place. That bit is left unvarnished as there’s yet one more part to fit. Actually, that part is the moulding that surrounds the entire structure. Making this sort of moulding is beyond me, so I’m using lengths of ¼” dolls house skirting boards turned upside down. Looks OK . Bending the things is a bit of a problem, but I reckon that if I pin them into place they should take the curvature.
     





Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Netleyned on June 28, 2012, 06:54:32 PM
Ahhh! Corticine  :D :D
The RN must have had square miles of the stuff.
I remember the polishing procedure in our huts
when we were new apprentices.
First out at call the hands grabbed a tin of polish
and a stick and spread dabs of the stuff down the centre
of the hut. First up easiest job!
Next one rubbed it in and then everyone else
There were about thirty of us in each hut, had to
polish the deck with a bumper (a weighted mop type thing)
Only then could you go to the unheated wash rooms and
hope there was some hot water!

Ned
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: pugwash on June 28, 2012, 07:11:49 PM
And what establishment would that be Ned - I know it wasn't Ganges because we had wooden block floors but the same procedure for polishing them

Geoff
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 28, 2012, 07:23:24 PM
Ah!. So I was wrong yet again. Some of you really are getting along a bit. But aren't we all.
Now that I've mentioned the Corticene stuff...(I'm too young to remember)...what colour was it? I do seem to recall that it was a sort of pale effluent shade. That about right? This entire model is going to finish up in "Forty Shades Of Brown" if i'm not careful.
Thanks for reading, chaps. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Netleyned on June 28, 2012, 07:52:50 PM
Geoff
Fisgard

Ned
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: F4TCT on June 28, 2012, 09:47:13 PM
I melted a Torpedo 800 using a 60mm 3 bladed brass prop on 12volts.

The shafts turned blue with the heat and the insides of the motor are something to be laughed about as they have effectively turned into soot.

Dan
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on June 28, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
I melted a Torpedo 800 using a 60mm 3 bladed brass prop on 12volts.

The shafts turned blue with the heat and the insides of the motor are something to be laughed about as they have effectively turned into soot.

Dan
Intriguing. More thoughts on what caused the damage? BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: F4TCT on June 28, 2012, 11:46:27 PM
Well, mainly the prop size and me gunning it.

It was the early days of getting my Speedline Trent and the props it comes with don't work, so i replaced it with the scale size threw it in the pond and had a play. (I didn't really have a clue about motor resistance and stuff like that)

It was literally overloading of the motor due to the size of the prop.

In my Waveney Class Lifeboat, I have used Graupner 900 bb turbo motors and these seem to handle the prop size fine. In the tug, i used some Model Slipway ms-900 motors and they drive my 60mm kort props with great ease and with barely getting warm.

From what i have been told about the MFA stuff, its basically not designed for modelling applications. I found it to be a rough thing where as the Graupner is much smoother (something about more poles or something along those lines). For big tugs and things, the guys usually use the old car blower motors or reduction gears.

(http://s8.postimage.org/hx9vtdfnl/100_0096.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hx9vtdfnl/)

(http://s8.postimage.org/575nga7pd/100_2435.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/575nga7pd/)

Dan
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 01, 2012, 03:56:54 PM
Well, it’s been a bit of a slog but the bracing structure for the cabin roof is now done.
It doesn’t look much, but but all the cutting, grooving and bending to get the thing to be a snug fit within the cabin sides with curvatures in 2 directions…well, I found it difficult.
The 1st pic is, as you can see, the unit “out of position”. The 3 others are of it “as fitted….but removable. The top surface looks a bit rough…purposely so as the bare wood takes a “glue” better than a varnished surface. All the undersides of the structure nice and dark coloured. The next job is to use 1/32” ply cut into 1” wide strips (or “planks” if you prefer) to be laid fore & aft over the removable section…the only way I can get the roof to bend in 2 directions. It doesn’t show too well in the photos but there’s a pronounced “kick” upwards toward the after end. After that I’ll paint the underside (the cabin deckhead) satin white, leaving the darker beams untouched. All same country cottage style. Not that I intend taking the roof off on a regular basis…but it’s all a “just in case” solution.
      Meanwhile, the seat cushions are slowly getting done. Each one is to some extent different to its predecessor as I find “new” (or different) ways of making the things.
But 2 things I’ve learned that may be helpful.  One…don’t let a contact adhesive within sniffing distance of the Fablon…it attacks it faster than a school of Piranhas. Secondly, the ¼” balsa, although the correct thickness for a 3” cushion is too thin for the brass pins ….the protrude through the base and so have to be shortened. I first tried holding the offending pins in the jaws of a pair of miniature pliers and grinding the things to a different length. This proved to be a bit of a clart with pins slipping and flying everywhere. So I decided to just push a pin through a bit of discarded balsa, hold the “head” end against a steel rule and use the proxxon drill with a sanding disc to shorten it. Works fine. Only a few seconds work….but with the amount of pins to be used those few seconds would appear to stretch into a geological time-scale. Looks like being a job to be done in fits’n’starts.     
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: mikearace on July 01, 2012, 04:40:26 PM
Quote
First out at call the hands grabbed a tin of polish
and a stick and spread dabs of the stuff down the centre
of the hut. First up easiest job!

Piece of string round the top of the tin that the polish was in, 10 holes made in the bottom with a nail, then walk up and down the length of the hut banging the tin onto the floor. Left nice symetrically spaced dollops of polish.   Then rags tied to everyones feet and a form of skating up and down the length of the hut rubbing it in.  Best job was the electic buffer though.  One hard push from the hut entrance and it was like being on the waltzer at Spanish City!!
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Netleyned on July 01, 2012, 04:55:35 PM
Not many electrical polishers in 1959.
Anyway, we are hijacking Bryan's super
build thread.
This is not 'all our yesterdays' but
he did mention Corticine

Ned
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 01, 2012, 05:11:29 PM
Piece of string round the top of the tin that the polish was in, 10 holes made in the bottom with a nail, then walk up and down the length of the hut banging the tin onto the floor. Left nice symetrically spaced dollops of polish.   Then rags tied to everyones feet and a form of skating up and down the length of the hut rubbing it in.  Best job was the electic buffer though.  One hard push from the hut entrance and it was like being on the waltzer at Spanish City!!
Mike....forgive me, but what on earth are you talking about? Totally lost me I'm afraid!
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 01, 2012, 05:15:23 PM
Not many electrical polishers in 1959.
Anyway, we are hijacking Bryan's super
build thread.
This is not 'all our yesterdays' but
he did mention Corticine

Ned
Thanks Ned.  I still don't know the correct spelling of "Corticene"....nor the colour of the stuff.
Don't mind people chipping in, but that one from Mike got me wondering more than a little! Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Netleyned on July 01, 2012, 05:26:56 PM
The colour of brown cardboard polished wherever it was laid in the Andrew.
The wax polish was an almost orange colour.
If memory serves me right it was about a 1/4 inch thick with an open weave
hessian like backing. It was not at all flexible and snapped very easily.
Used on a boat cabin roof I would think shellac or varnish of the day would
be needed to weatherproof it.

Ned
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 01, 2012, 06:32:20 PM
Thanks Ned. Until I read Capt. Stapletons book (and referrred to the Model Shipwright article) I had no idea that this stuff would be used on an open deck (or cabin roof). I'm sure I must have come across it somewhere down the line, but it must just have been used internally. I suppose to us cadets it was just a sort of brown linoleum. It was your remark about having a Hessian sort of backing that got the "remember" cells ticking. Thanks. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on July 01, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
It was used a fair bit in the Platelayers cabins on the railways too Bryan
.... and though I'm not saying much I'm still watching with interest.

Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 03, 2012, 03:28:00 PM
Into every modellers life a little rain must fall.  But I didn’t expect 2 showers at the same time.
Following the very helpful information about “Corticene” I browsed around and reckoned that an earosol of Humbrol Dark Brown (No 29) looked about right. In fact, according to the lid colour it seemed about perfect. I sure didn’t expect it to dry closer to Olive Green than Brown. It looks ‘orrible. See pic. Another good reason to have made the cabin roof detachable. No complicated masking up to be done when re-spraying with a more suitable colour. £5 wasted.
Now up to £390. But I’d like to remind you that that figure is really a false one….but it’s what it would have been if I hadn’t already had a lot of the materiel already in “stock”.
Shower no.2 was, in a way, more problematical. I’d “planked” the cabin roof with 1/32” ply in 1” strips and araldited them to the internal bearers. With additional stiffening laid underneath to keep the plank edges even…..the same principle I used when planking up the original hull plug. But calamity. During the epoxy curing process the roof framework got a twist in it. Not huge, perhaps a couple of mm, but that meant the roof looked distinctly odd when placed in position. On reflection, it was probably my fault with uneven clamping weights.
While pondering this problem I decided to fit my “upside down” dolls house skirting boards. The athwartships bit needed some pinning (1mm dia. brass). I did want to mitre the 4 corners, but my eyesight made that unfeasible. But as it turns out, the 1/16” roof overhang disguises that quite well. I really only mention that because it was the use of the 1mm brass wire that solved the “twist” problem. Funny how seemingly difficult problems can generally be solved pretty easily. I just bent 4 bits of the brass wire into “L” shapes, and holding each roof corner in position, drilled a 1mm trough both the cabin sides and the roof framework. Slid a pin into the hole..and one of 4 was done. A bit of refinement to the “L” pins and problem solved, with the roof still being removable.
     Although being less than delighted with the roof colour, I decided to fix the plasticard to the roof planking with the old double sided tape. (30 thou plasticard). Went on a treat. Now to hunt down a more suitable colour…..and continue with the seat cushions.







Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: TailUK on July 03, 2012, 05:34:44 PM
On the subject of "Lino" I was always given to understand that the decking material was similar to the stuff they used to use in school to make printing blocks. (see picture) That was about 1/4 inch thick and had a open weave canvas backing.  It was usually a tan colour.
(http://s15.postimage.org/u15pvx6lj/lino_what_is_it.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/u15pvx6lj/)
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 04, 2012, 03:53:24 PM
Thanks for that. At least your pic shows a sort of brown and not this horrid olive green stuff that purports to be brown.
Now, before I leg it (well, "car it") to Halfords ....I'll have to think of a car painted in a colour I wouldn't dream of buying!. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 04, 2012, 08:32:32 PM

If it's a Brown spray tin you may well have difficulties. The choice is almost non existent Brian, as they no longer make Brown cars. They might have a 'make your own colour' department for the aerosols which could prove expensive.

If you want to go the brush way then B&Q have a mix your own selection at around £16 per tin. 

Cheers

ken

Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on July 04, 2012, 08:49:50 PM
What I remember was near the colour of this austin allegro - perhaps one shade darker
Please ask a mod to delete this post after you have looked at the colour
 
(http://s14.postimage.org/gsjx0poct/1974_Austin_Allegro_1_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gsjx0poct/)
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 04, 2012, 09:12:28 PM

You are correct.  The allegro is the only colour you can get these days. A bit disappointing that our boating hobby has such a range of browns that aerosols would be very popular in these shades.


ken
 
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Stavros on July 04, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
Wasnt that Allegro colour Harvest gold


Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 04, 2012, 09:34:02 PM

There is a harvest gold shade of brown and I even tried it out on a boat. In the daylight it didn't look right.


ken
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Norseman on July 04, 2012, 09:47:48 PM
Ken
I believe there is a place in St Helens that will put whatever you like in a rattle can - I'll get some details
Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Stavros on July 04, 2012, 10:01:57 PM
Halfords will mix any shade you need at put it in a rattle can for you same price as their ready done Aerosols


Dave
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Les on July 05, 2012, 10:56:43 AM
Re Corticine

Tamiya Acrylic Matt XF79 "Linoleum Deck - Brown" 81779 any use?

Les
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 05, 2012, 10:59:39 AM

Hi Stavros.

Is that right ?  That's great news.  Thank you very much.    :-))

cheers

ken

Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 05, 2012, 11:16:01 AM
Wow! Sounds like the bees-knees tis time!. I'll let you how I got on later this afternoon.
You know, every time I've had a query / problem / mental blockage etc. someone has come up with the answer. Sincere thanks to all those who've used a few brain cells. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 05, 2012, 05:19:22 PM
Right. Scarpered off soonest to get some of this Lino Brown. Only to be given a (friendly) lecture about the Tamiya policy of not putting the stuff normally found in aerosols into little glass tubs. Similarly, the stuff found in glass jars is not found in an aerosol.
Being advertised as a "Deck Brown" and given that decks tend to be of a rather large area this weird policy seems self defeating. But when needs must and all that.....
The actual colour is spot on. The downside is that the paint dries so quickly it sometimes seems as if the paint has dried on the brush before it gets to its target. I'm beginning to wonder if this paint was really formulated for air-brush work. In which case I've dipped out as I sold my Badger ages ago when I got fed up with the constant cleaning of the thing. The days before Acrylics came ito use. And I'm certainly not going to buy another just for the cabin roof.
    I've done something else with the cabin woodwork.....but I'll keep that until I post the next "mainstream" item.
Thanks for the help Les. Regards. Bryan.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 06, 2012, 12:00:55 PM
Another £10 yesterday (“Lino” paint, 3 new brushes and a sheet of Plasticard. Now up to £400.
For some time now I’ve felt a little unhappy with the lacquered finish on the cabin. Not really “bad” in real life, but photographs seemed to emphasise the grain of the veneerand gave the finish unwanted highlights.  So I decided to give the entire exterior a good rubbing down with steel wool. The lacquer is still there of course, but the highlights have gone and the finish is as smooth as glass. Especially after a going over with Mr. Sheen spray polish. I was a bit uncertain about using this as the polish contains silicone and so another coat of lacquer would probably be a mistake. But everything is fine.  But I’m going to have to get another jar of the Tamiya “Lino” paint….and ask advice about thinning it down. That should enable me to get a better finish on the roof.
And on that note I’m going to give the cabin a “rest” for awhile. Still plenty to do on it, but making up some of the fittings might (read “will”) be difficult.
So I’m going to at least make a start on the Engine Room / Boiler-room casing.
This is a big “lump” at 15” x 5.5”. That’ll keep me occupied.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 11, 2012, 11:28:03 AM
Let work begin!
But before that, may I just repeat that so far all construction work on the cabin ( and eventually this casing ) will have been totally built using only one tool….a Stanley knife. With a little assistance from a steel rule, a flat, small warding file and various grades of abrasive paper…..and a few hole drilled with the little Proxxon thing. The bad saw and all the rest of the heavy armament will be used later. I could have used other tools, but just now and again I get the impression from some members that they think a fully equipped workshop is vital. But enough of all that.
       The 1st photo shows the plan view of the full casing clearly showing the difference in size between that at deck level and the level that the funnel sits at. So it’s the tapering sides that is a bit of a problem. Wouldn’t be too bad if the sides were flat and the corners squared off, but as you can see…they aren’t.
As I wish to make this entire unit detachable (access, again), I need to build it with a flat (horizontal) base with the side pieces aligned to fit, but also taking note of the considerable deck sheer. The “white” part will be cut off and used to make the sloping side panels. The “green” part is the vertical (and visible) part of the unit and the “red” part will remain attached to the green but will eventually slide into the rather large hole yet to be cut into the deck. Photos 1 and 2 also show how I intend joining the main parts together. Basically copying a fairly common system used in plastic model kits….slots in one part and keys in the other. Except this is into wood. Hopefully this method will mean that I can assemble the unit before glueing the thing permanently together.
     I think I’ll leave it there for now as I haven’t yet worked out how to describe the next stage!
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: Bryan Young on July 14, 2012, 05:56:46 PM
And slowly, but surely, do we progress.
With Mrs.Y away for a week in warmer (hotter) and drier climes for a week I can fill the bath and play with the hull stability and weights to my hearts content.
I must admit to being more than a little surprised how little weight needed adding to bring the hull down to its waterline…although the waterline I marked was just a rough one with a large felt-tip marker.
So it’s back to making “things” as light as possible.
It’s probably obvious when given a little thought, but when looking at the hull shape out of the water it isn’t immediately realised just how much of the after end is not part of the natural buoyancy of the hull. The spoon-shaped stern takes that prize. In fact there’s very little of the hull aft of the cabin area that actually touches the water. So I’m looking at probably 7” of hull that does nothing except look pretty. And 7” is 1/7th of the hull length. So only 43” of the 50” hull is “functional”…and the after underwater body is pretty fine as well. Again, not really evident until the hull is in the water. So it seems as if a total AUW of 20lb or even less is probable.
     In the past, for all my models, I’ve used Lead-acid batteries. But now I’ve been advised to consider Ni-Cad packs …running at 12v. I’ve had absolutely no experience whatsoever with ni-cads, so any advice here would be more than welcome. Charging the batteries is one of my educational needs. As is cost against lead-acids….and weight of course. I’ll ask around at the club, but I’d also appreciate any input from mayhemers.
During the coming week I should be in a position to show more construction of this devilish engine casing. Be a doddle if it was either a vac-form or a GRP moulding.
Weight, weight, weight. Haunts my dreams. Continue later with some pics. BY.
Title: Re: the start of a new build
Post by: vnkiwi on July 14, 2012, 08:22:16 PM
Nice build Bryan.
Following you all the way.
Try NiMh batteries, as they are a step up from Ni-Cad's, and don't suffer from charging restrictions and memory issues that Ni-Cad's have.
Used Ni-Cad's upto around 10 years ago, and only NiMh since.
cheers
vnkiwi
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Martin [Admin] on July 14, 2012, 08:49:36 PM
 
Topic renamed.  :-)
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 16, 2012, 03:49:53 PM
Well, it may be an infinitesimal step for mankind, but it’s a huge step forward for me.
Pic 1.
These are (obviously) the array of component parts for the lower portion of the long casing. The slots may appear to be randomly spaced…but they aren’t. I’ve tried to avoid putting the uprights in way of “stuff” that will be eventually fitted to the deck part of the casing, mainly because I don’t want the (yet to be fitted) cross members being obtrusive if I decide to have some hatches etc “open. Still some final trimming to do, but so far the method seems to be working.
Pic 2
This is the whole lot just sort of clipped together, no glue or anything as yet. I’m going to use Araldite to fasten the whole thing together…I think it should be the “slow curing” sort as all kinds of trimming and adjustment will be needed.
The projecting “ledges” down each side will be eventually cut off and faired in. They are only there to prevent the side panels getting out of shape . The “tabs” being constrained in their slots.
Actually, once I worked through the idea, the making of the bits was quite straightforward. Careful marking and cutting being the order of the day.
   And now for the rounded corner pieces.
Up to now, all the bits you can see up to the level where the sides begin to slope inwards, are vertical. So I’m going to use 1/32” ply. The first layer will be bonded to the inner surfaces of the parts adjacent to the corners, and bent (curved) to fit. When all that is nice and tight, the intention is to laminate 2 more layers of 1/32nd ply to fill the 1/16” thick space…..all too difficult to describe. That’ll all come later on.
   So, time to make another seat cushion for a bit of light relief!. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 16, 2012, 03:51:03 PM
Ooops. Sorry, got the pics in the wrong order! BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 19, 2012, 05:33:06 PM
Right. First things first. Reduce the outlay by £25 to a new total of £375. So I have £25 of credit to “play with”. ( ‘cos of returned items).
I mentioned the disparity between “Araldite” and the B&Q “alternative” under a more general heading. But now (at last) I seem to have a casing platform that I can develop into something approaching my goal. Curved corners included! It all seems (at first glance) to be pretty square ..but time will tell.
To be honest, even after all this work, I’m still not absolutely sure that this will all work.
Why?
Because it’s more usual to build any sort of superstructure into a model after the deck has been laid. I’m doing this one sort of upside down. And then I’ll get the deck to fit the superstructure rather than the other way around. Makes some sort of sense to me, but it may all end in tears. But I’m an optimist at heart.
    The seats are now nearly completed. Thank goodness. The only remaining bits of the cabin interior are the LED lighting layout (and on/off switch) and the little table where the Admiral can park his briefcase.
19th of July. Last night around 10pm a dusky maiden arrived on my doorstep proclaiming to be my wife returning home after a week in Cyprus. I was only convinced of the truth when the kitchen was inspected  (and passed). This lightened my spirits somewhat as earlier that day I’d fallen for a computer scam that was worrying the hell out of me. All to do with computer security. So ruddy plausible and the “repairs” to my machine took 3 hours…all under the control of this “Microsoft Technician”.  I’m not usually a dummy about these things, but it was so absolutely believable. I stopped the payment (too embarrassed to reveal how much) and cancelled my debit card. Barclays said they were aware of this scam and knew of at least 1,500,000 (!) cases of this scam being successful. Microsoft are aware of the scam but refuse to get involved quoting “Freedom of access to the Internet”. Fortunately (and a fact that I was unaware of), payments by Direct debit are held by the bank for 3 days before payment is made. So I think I’ve been lucky…although still a little shell-shocked by the sheer professionalism of the scam. Beware!!!!
       But on with the motley.
Add £4 to the total, now back up to £379. (B&Q epoxy).
As with all things made from plywood, regardless of thickness, some items need the ply to have the grain running lengthwise, and other bits need the grain running “across”. OK, I know that remarks like that are self-evident to experienced builders, but my not be so to less experienced folk.
The 1st pic is of a bit of 1/32” ply being used as a backing for the later layer of  1/16” ply forming the corners. Both of these are “cross grain”. The 1/32” stuff bends by itself, the 1/16” ply laid over the backing won’t bend so easily, so in the time honoured fashion, it needed to be “scored” to make it more flexible. Pic 2 shows the result. I’ll remind you here that all of this structure will eventually be clad with plasticard…so no filling of faults (of which there are many).
I just couldn’t resist doing this “mock-up” pic….just to show me how it’s all starting to come together. One needs a little fillip now and again.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Grumpy Dave on July 23, 2012, 09:56:44 PM
Cheers Bryan, I guessed it would be somewhere but I haven't found my way around yet. So much to look at. Your model is well out of my league at the moment. Beautiful. The stern is different on my hull. Re Dolphins, you could find a jeweler to make one for you, it might not be too expensive, try a local art school. GD
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 26, 2012, 04:26:06 PM
    Another unexpected setback yesterday. I found out that during “curing” of the epoxy holding the E/Rm casing together the structure had warped a little….the side panels had sprung outwards a little, so I’ve had to glue and pin some cross braces into the thing to bring it all back into shape. At the same time I realised that simply epoxying (?) the sloping top panels to 1/16” ply wouldn’t be good enough. Even though these side panels are not weight bearing (and so made from 1/32” ply) they do need a decent anchorage. A greater gluing surface was made for each “frame” by simply gluing in some short lengths of “L” shaped plastic and putting a bit of 1/32” ply over the top of them. Seems to work OK.
      The “white” stuff is 30 thou plasticard wrapped around the bottom part of the unit. As usual, this is fixed in position with double-sided tape.  Honestly, using a large (£4) roll of this stuff saves a fortune in glue…especially when used to permanently stick down sheets of the plasticard.
    But now I’m into a “Chicken and Egg” position. Whatever I do is going to adversely affect whatever I decide to do next.
The main structural priority is to make and fit the tapering but curved 4 upper corners. But I can’t do that until the sloping side panels are fitted. And if I do that then fitting the main part (the deck the funnel and all the rest of the gubbins sits on). Such are the woes of the mentally retarded scratch builder. I think it’s going to have to be a “suck it and see” situation. So the sloping side panels will have to be fitted next.
Finally managed to find some of the “New Formula” Araldite Rapid today. Thank goodness after some of the rubbish I’ve been trying recently.  £14 down the drain just to tell me what not to buy (that includes the “twin syringe” thing marketed by Evostick. This may be OK, but not for model making as it delivers copious amounts of resin and a tiny amount of hardener. Too much for most modelling applications. Pricey as well, at £9 a go. The “new” Araldiite is exactly what I needed.
The scuttle holes were drilled out before the outer plasticard sheathing was stuck on.
The curved and inwardly sloping side panels went on reasonably well with a bit of  of sanding to do when the epoxy was set.
But now to the corners.
Everything I tried was OK at the bottom end, but the radius at the top seemed insurmountable. Then I remembered that I had a sheet of alloy mesh left over from long ago. Moulded in like a dream. The pic shows the mesh before final fixing. I intend using strips of ply to sandwich the mesh to the sloping sides.

Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Circlip on July 26, 2012, 04:40:14 PM
Might have been easier to make a plug and drape mold styrene sheet over it Bryan?

  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 26, 2012, 05:08:31 PM
Ian,
Some unmentionable Caledonian has also said he used a similar method to your notion. But being instictvely averse to whatever he says....I decided to hav a go at something both quick and easy that takes zero skill and (dreaded word) "work".
The alloy mesh is dirt cheap, forms to jus about any shape you want, and makes for a superb "backing" for whatever else you may wish to stick on it. And through it. But as I said. This is another experiment that may or not work. I think it will work. The corners aren't exactly load bearing, more decorative in a model. Just have to wait and see how it pans out! Thanks for the thought, anyway.  Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Circlip on July 26, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
Nah, I meant for the whole cabin, not just the corners. Nother thought for the Dolphins, if you carved them in a hard wax, I have the address for someone who does lost wax castings.

  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 26, 2012, 06:58:31 PM
Ah!, Ian. Why didn't you tell me all this stuff before I started?
Possibly a rhetorical question, I suppose.
But as the man said....."I didn't get to where I am today by......", and I forget the rest of it....fill in for yourself.
I suppose Ihave made the whole thing more difficult than it could have been. But I'm a bit detached from modern ideas...although willing to learn. Too late in this instance.
Why don't you explain (chapter and verse) just how you would make a structure over 15" long, 6" wide, 2.5" deep that curves in all dimensions? That query is definetly not a criticism!
I can (in retrospect) see some advantages in carving the entire unit out of a block of some sort of "foam".....but then what? I need thin walls to let the scuttles actually look like scuttles. I need some sort of strength to hold the funnel, funnel stays, cowl vents and all sorts of other stuff. At the moment, the structure (nearly complete) weighs only a few ounces. I'm really not sure how I would go about using your suggestions.
Then you mention the stuff of my nightmares. These blasted Dolphins.
Off and on, I've tried (dismally) to carve one to my satisfaction. Tried modellers clay....but that went rock solid in about 20 minutes after I opened the packaging. Where would I get some of this hard wax you mention? I'm struggling now. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: John W E on July 26, 2012, 07:18:49 PM

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8904.msg86588#msg86588


 Ihave made the whole thing more difficult than it could have been. But I'm a bit detached from modern ideas...although willing to learn. Too late in this instance.
Why don't you explain (chapter and verse) just how you would make a structure over 15" long, 6" wide, 2.5" deep that curves in all dimensions? That query is definetly not a criticism!
I can (in retrospect) see some advantages in carving the entire unit out of a block of some sort of "foam".....but then what? I need thin walls to let the scuttles actually look like .
[/quote]
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on July 26, 2012, 09:04:35 PM
Thanks John.
Sort of missed out on the facts that I didn't really know what I was doing....but still time to learn, I suppose.
But, as my late father and all his brothers used to say....." Only fools and bairns can talk about a job half done."
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Stavros on July 26, 2012, 11:02:30 PM
Brian make an Ebay search for Beeswax or even Better still get in contact with younger at 70 on here he keeps Bees or do you know any beekeepers in your area


Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on August 07, 2012, 06:07:18 PM
    Just re-read the colour schemes for this thing…..oops. The “hide” seat coverings were apparently dyed “blue”. Actually, I like the idea as it gives a bit of a contrast to the swathes of wood veneer.
It’s been awhile since my last update, but such trivialities such as Donner und Blitzen and Monsoon type rains (plus neighbours being flooded) have all conspired against me.
Would you believe that a Council as large as N.Tyneside has only 2 “Drain-Suckers” to clear drains of leaves etc? Reportedly, they only respond when the number of complaints reaches 20. The mind boggles. A few weeks ago it was Monkseaton that got inundated, and yesterday it was the turn of Cullercoats. Both within a mile of me but in opposing directions. Then last Sunday the 5Bridges Festival was washed out just before we were due to go to Newcastle to retrieve our models. There was absolutely no way on earth that a car could get to Newcastle ….so a phone call from Brian C was probably the most welcome call I can remember. “Pick the models up on Monday morning”. Great sigh of relief.
Anyway. Back to the Engine casing for the Barge.
It quickly became apparent that the aluminium mesh on its own wasn’t going to be rigid enough so small lengths of 1/32” ply were added and roughed down. Drawing the templates (on cooking parchment) made the final, top, layer of plasticard fit reasonably well. Some filling needed, but not much. Then came the “rivetting”. A doddle with 2 eyes, but a slow process with only one able to focus. Still, all got done eventually.
Made a lovely “boo-boo” this afternoon though. Half way through pinning the raised centre plate I realised that I’d forgotten to remove the backing paper from the D/S tape. Calamity! 2 hours later and much use of the vernacular English all was sorted. But still a long way to go.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on August 08, 2012, 02:02:06 PM
Hi brian,if you find the colour you want(eg.allegro brown) let me know what car & year it is from and i will get you a colour code and all you have to do then is go to halfords and they will mix it for you.Also this is a nice colour scheme
(http://s16.postimage.org/j7mq6td81/DSCI0035.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j7mq6td81/)
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on August 08, 2012, 06:29:37 PM
Baloo.... what a kind thought.
So much "stuff" going on in my head at the moment that I keep forgetting that I will (eventually) have to address the various problems that the hull will throw at me. Silly stuff like the curved corners of the wood rain barriers on the cabin roof. The making and fitting of the rubbing strake around the stern....little things like that that cause sleepless nights.
You may have noticed that (on my last pic) there's no "angle bar" fitted to the E/Rm structure. That will have to wait until I get around to actually fitting the deck on to the hull. As I said some time ago, I'm building this thing "upside downwards".
Love the pic you posted though.....what scale is it? Cheers. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on August 08, 2012, 07:29:06 PM
Brian,it is 1/12 scale,and the flag on the front has got the logo of h.m.s.tiger(ww1) & and underneath is my surname(not admiral beaty name)my friend does any flag to your suit your needs,he DOES NOT print them,every single flag he does is free-hand.martin
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on August 25, 2012, 06:37:45 PM
What with one thing and another, “things have slowed down a bit. The “other” being my wife breaking her foot (now in a “moonboot”) and me getting another gout attack. She with her right foot encased and me hobbling on a duff left foot. Couldn’t help but think of Henry and Min from the old Goon Shows.
However, some progress has been made.
In the pic, the “deck” is still unattached…hence the all round gap. At the front end there’s a hatch, but on either side of it is a channel moulding to accept the sliding struts of the yet to be fitted bowmans seat. Then the pair of hatches leading to the engine room and boiler room. A bit of “common dog” tells me that these hatches would have to be openable from both sides….otherwise some idiot would at one stage or another lock the poor E/R crew in. Construction of these was straightforward if fiddly. All plasticard taped to a balsa base. Hinges fabricated from small dia plastic tubing.
Still working on the main skylight. Almost done with the exception of the brass bars that go across the “glass”, and some sort of dogging down arrangement…plus the vertical “stanchion” that lets the skylight sides stay upright when opened.
Still not too sure how to fasten the funnel to the deck and still be removeable.
The boathooks are 7” long. The hook ends are of very shiny brass that doesn’t show up in the pic. The maker of the end bits will appear in my “thank you” list when the model is completed…..as will everyone who for one reason or another has helped me with this build.
The crutches for the boathooks are bent litho-plate (the “thick” variety) pinned through a plasticard doubling plate. But nothing is yet “fixed”, and so the entire unit is as yet unpainted. Still a long way to go. Hope I live long enough to see it all finished!
What I really must get around to doing is work on the hull. I’ve yet to work out a way of doing that whilst seated….and with a good light source. I was hoping the sun might help, but as it has been on leave of absence for most of this year, it’s been a bit of a non-starter.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 04, 2012, 05:46:28 PM
Now back up to £420 (Epoxy, paint, timber, plasticard and putty.
I’ll come on to the “putty” in a minute.
But now I’m back to the age old problem of making cowl ventilators. Fortunately the ones I made for the Tyne Ferry Northumbrian are perfect for the barge…although will be much shorter. So using the wooden plug I’d already made for the ferry came in handy. My small, home-made vac forming machine is useless for things of this size, so I passed the plug halves on to Jim Lane (Display Models of Blyth) to use on his high powered machine. I only wanted 4 halves (to make up into 2 vents) but he’s given me enough halves to make 6 of the things….on the grounds that as I was paying for the sheet of 60thou (about 1.5mm) plasticard he may as well use it.
In the past I’ve always had trouble disguising the 2 vertical seams joining the 2 halves together. This time around I wondered if a “mild” sort of body filler might work…but on visiting my favourite model shop I was introduced to “modellers putty”. Probably “old hat” to some of you but new to me. Comes in 2 colours – White and Green – but are the same stuff. Made by a Texas outfit called “Squadron Products” and cost me £4.60 for a tube about the size of a smallish toothpaste tube. The label boasts “fast drying”….a misnomer. For “rapid” read “almost instantaneous”. Takes to plasticard like a duck to water and rubs down very nicely. Pongs a bit though.
The pic simply shows the evolution of the halves from plug to raw fitting of the halves.
The next stage is the filling and rubbing down, fitting the semi-circular (cross section) cowl boundary strip, cutting out the cowl opening and taking about 3” off the shaft length.
The vents on this type of boat were of polished brass, and “brass metallic paint” just isn’t good enough. But I’ve been told of a fairly local company that plates “plastic” items in either gold, silver or brass (or chrome). So that’s the intended way forward at the moment. Apparently the method used is to spray coat the plastic with nickel and then apply the brass layer. The same company (or so I’m told) chrome plates the surrounds for many car headlamps and so on….and brass plating for some domestic lamp standards.
In for a penny,..in for a pound.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on September 04, 2012, 06:50:35 PM
Hi brian,as for your vent cowls i used a "egg tray" from the fridge and used a peice of tubeing.If you look on the disc  i sent you photo`s 29&30 you will see what i mean.Once i made them a friend(who does the flags)said try martin at MACS MOULDINGS as he does big scale items,bit late when i made them,anyway i see it`s coming along fine so keep up the good work and dont tread on the wifes toes(get well soon mrs brian) martin
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 04, 2012, 07:59:30 PM
Sorry old son.....what disc? Nothing received at this end I'm affraid.
But the main reason that I made my wood plug the way I did was to avoid the final look of a hemisphere on a stick with all sharp edges and stuff. Some....very few (and more modern ones) do have sharp edges between the shaft and the cowl. But older ones were always faired in with nice curves. That's the sort I want to replicate.
Ta for the reply. Regards. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Stavros on September 04, 2012, 09:14:39 PM
AH ha Another Gout sufferer I can fully sympathise with you Horrible it is,NO one can relate to the amount of PAIN this can cause and render one usless and SO SO frustrated adn one can not do a thing without it hurting


Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on September 05, 2012, 03:54:02 PM
Kidney Stones
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: irishcarguy on September 05, 2012, 04:16:46 PM
Not much difference Dave, you are crippled either way. Try driving a standard car & operating the clutch when the gout is @ its worst. Mick B.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 10, 2012, 06:44:50 PM
Just a "quickie" to say that I'm not quite dead yet and here is the latest development.
The "mounted" pic shows the wood surround untrimmed and bereft of any stain or lacquer that I may later apply.
Slowly, but surely, this thing is coming together. It's now 6 months and 2 days since I began this project with building the "plug" for the hull mould. Seems like an eternity, but it surely has kept the remaining brain cells working. I refuse to even contemplate how much more work needs to be done. But once the 2nd Dolphin is in placeand the woodwork tidied up a bit, I think I'll see if I can finish off the cabin roof. (May need a few words of wisdom from you lot on a bit of that). BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 10, 2012, 06:47:18 PM
Oops, Sorry.
Moderator please remove one of those pics....
Meant to post this one.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: rmaddock on September 10, 2012, 07:29:49 PM
Those dolphins look fantastic Bryan!  :-))
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: pugwash on September 10, 2012, 08:30:48 PM
Hi Bryan it is coming along very well - I don't know whethere I have missed something in the text but can't find any reference as to how you made or acquired
the dolphins.??

Geoff
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 10, 2012, 08:47:10 PM

I wanted to say that.

Nice to see your latest report Brian. Keep going.   I was beginning to miss you.   8)

I've removed your duplicate picture. As you've noticed, the site is still on tender hooks.

regards

ken
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 10, 2012, 09:28:50 PM
Geoff (and others)....no, you haven't missed anything.
All will be revealed in the fullness of time.
Just put it this way. Some things are way beyond my skill level. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on September 10, 2012, 09:44:59 PM
well made and not "cheap"
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on September 11, 2012, 12:41:17 AM
I am dying to know about the Dolphins - saw some today just off Valetta
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 11, 2012, 10:16:15 AM
I am dying to know about the Dolphins - saw some today just off Valetta
I'll tell you something........
These "Dolphins", although pretty good miniatures of the ones on the real barge, bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to anything found in any Ocean. They really appear to have come from the same twisted minds that breamed up all the mythical beasts that drew up the very early Admiralty Charts. But none the worse for that, I feel.
Cost? Well, put it this way.

Making the hard wax master, the mould and the 2 solid brass finished items was less than £40. Not "cheap"....but not expensive either. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: BarryM on September 11, 2012, 10:59:28 PM
Ignore all this stuff about masters and moulds. What Bryan is glossing over is the time he spent in his shed with a Junior Mad Scientist Kit, some chemicals sourced from a Mr Frank N Stein and two goldfish formerly the property of his grandchildren.   :kiss:

Barry M
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on September 11, 2012, 11:16:48 PM
[ author=Bryan Young link=topic=36231.msg394245#msg394245 date=1347354975]
twisted minds that breamed up
[/quote]

Now is that a clever fish pun Bryan or a typo ? Works for me either way  :-))
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Kim on September 12, 2012, 02:26:48 AM
I'll tell you something........

Making the hard wax master, the mould and the 2 solid brass finished items was less than £40. Not "cheap"....but not expensive either. Bryan.

£40.00 sounds good to me ! ... are you sure that included making the masters?  Really? Blimey, I think the local Art sudents hear are at it ! With there Rennie MacKintosh chat .... Blah Blah...

Seriously good work Bryan !
Regards
Kim
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 12, 2012, 11:15:27 AM
Dear all (again).
Back to the Haddocks (as BarryM insists on calling them).
OK...nitty gritty time. The total cost to me was £35 for the pair. This was for the "master" and mould and the finished (polished) end results.
I've talked to the guy who made them and he'd be happy to make and sell more of them for £25 per pair plus p&p...now that I've paid for his time, the master and the mould.
They are only for a 1:12 scale model....which makes each one 2" tall. I suppose some bright spark could dream up another use for them. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 12, 2012, 11:45:24 AM
Quote

twisted minds that breamed up

Now is that a clever fish pun Bryan or a typo ? Works for me either way  :-))




(Sorted out the double quote ...ken )


Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 12, 2012, 11:46:18 AM
Ignore all this stuff about masters and moulds. What Bryan is glossing over is the time he spent in his shed with a Junior Mad Scientist Kit, some chemicals sourced from a Mr Frank N Stein and two goldfish formerly the property of his grandchildren.   :kiss:

Barry M
Actually Barry, you may well have hit on something here!
I wonder if a couple of goldfish of the right size could be frozen into the correct posture and cast into brass for all eternity.
If I didn't already have the things already I may have tried your idea (if I'd thought of it!)
Regards. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: essex2visuvesi on September 12, 2012, 12:05:03 PM
I have seen some earings similar to that somewhere.  Will post back if I find them online
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 20, 2012, 06:20:39 PM
I left you at £420.
Add £35 for the Dolphins.
£10 for new paint brushes, timber and plasticard strip (thick stuff) and £1 (and a bit) for nylon fastenings (as used to attach aircraft wings) to fasten my funnel in place.
The latest development is that I took delivery of my single ball brass stanchions. (James Lane again).
They cost me £24 for 30 of them. That’s pretty reasonable considering that I told him that I wanted all of them to be 2” long. The reason for that was because there are about 5 different lengths required, ranging from half an inch to just under 2”.
Now that I had the stanchions I could go out and buy some lengths of suitable brass tubing ….so add another £12. So as near as makes no difference the cost is now just on £500. (call it an outlay of around £50 per month over the 6 month building period).
It’s all these “little incidentals” that rack up the outlay.
As you will see in the enclosed pic, the stanchions have a small but intrusive “flat” on the top of the ball. This worried me a little at first, but only a couple of minutes with a bit of worn “wet’n’dry” and a finishing rub down with a sheet of “Flexigrit” solved that little problem.
Next time will be the fitting of the stanchions to the cabin roof.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: kiwimodeller on September 21, 2012, 10:59:24 AM
Hi Bryan, could you give some more details of the aircraft bits you are using to secure the funnel please. I am also building a Picket Boat but not the Admiral's Barge version. Mine is steam powered and I want to be able to put an easily removable outer painted funnel over the outside of the real funnel just for appearance sake. I will paint it and add a brass ring to the top but I will need to be able to take it off easily when I want to remove the boiler room cowl. I was keen to fit a whistle up the front of the funnel too but have not yet thought of a way to make that removable so the latest idea is to have it permanrently fixed just in front of the boiler with just the top section coming up through a hole in the cowl just ahead of the funnel. Love the dolphins, almost tempted to put some on mine even though the hull shape is not right for the Admirals version. Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 21, 2012, 06:29:50 PM
Ian, thanks for your message.
Alas, if you were thinking of a fastener for the “false” outer skin of your funnel then my method/fittings wouldn’t do the job for you. The only reason I used the nylon bolt thing was to save weight. The only way I could fit the bolt was to cut a ½” thick bit of balsa to a diameter that is a snug fit into the base of the funnel…with a ¼” hole through the centre. The pronged captive nut pulls into the balsa when the bolt is offered up. This effectively blocks the funnel base. Na good for you as you’ll want an open flue. All I can think of that might work for you I (perhaps) a pair of “pins” going through both the false and real funnel. Pull out the pins to remove the false one.
Re the “whistle. I too have been pondering this. But from a different aspect.  My book on the subject has numerous photos, but I’ve yet to find one that shows that a whistle was actually fitted. One photo shows what could be a hand powered “siren” sort of thing. (Fitted to the cabin roof  just behind the coxwain. Odd, but the RN was always a bit odd.
Thanks for the comment about the dolphins. They really are better than I could have imagined.
If you think that any pics I have could be of interest to you then I could easily scan/send some. They all come from Stapletons book on Steam Picket boats.
Regards. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: pugwash on September 21, 2012, 07:35:15 PM
A really nice build Bryan - I must have missed to two dolphins when you put up the photo - a real work of art.

Geoff
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Circlip on September 21, 2012, 09:59:22 PM
Just been fooling about with the Smeeds plan for the 40Ft Royal Barge from Britannia and guess what, two of the ugly little s*ds are on that as well.

  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: kiwimodeller on September 22, 2012, 11:30:51 AM
Thanks for the offer Bryan but I have the Stapleton book off ABE books and also some photos of a restored boat which from memory is at South Hampton and also of a model built by a member of the forum. Both lots of photos were very generously mailed to me at no cost by said member. I had mine steamed up on the bench thhis morning but have yet to complete the deck and superstructure. I agree that it is probable that the real thing did not have a whistle but I am going to fit one anyway, they are a lot of fun especially when you have kids standing right on the edge of the lake and you can blow the whistle as you steam past! Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 22, 2012, 03:51:33 PM
Cheers for the update!
Another thing that's been bugging me is the lack of an anchor..or indeed any reference to the boats having one.
With even the 45ft boat weighing in at around 15 tons, I can't imagine that the crew just used a bit of string attached to a brick.
All very strange! BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on September 22, 2012, 06:48:52 PM
Brian if you contact peter hollins(will pm his number) he is part of a consortium that has steam picket boat 199 at portsmouth historic dockyard,and he can tell you weather the boat had an anchor !!.
Martin
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 22, 2012, 09:18:11 PM
Brian if you contact peter hollins(will pm his number) he is part of a consortium that has steam picket boat 199 at portsmouth historic dockyard,and he can tell you weather the boat had an anchor !!.
Martin
Thanks for that.
In one of your earlier posts (PMs?) you mentioned how to get a paint of the "Blue/Black colour. I've "mislaid" that message.
Could you please repeat it? Cheers. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 26, 2012, 04:35:45 PM
The stanchions themselves were easy enough to cut and fit into fairly tight fitting holes, but cutting the 3/16” long (mock) sockets was a bit fiddly….a simple bent wire served as a jig to keep the things at the same height. Mounting “plates” are brass washers. I originally left them as polished brass but that gave the entire roof a “footballers WAG sort of look. Too “bling” for my taste so I painted them to match the deck covering. Much nicer. The 2 forward corner stanchions had to be given a 3rd hole (drilled half way through the ball). Not having a set of springs small enough to bend the 1/16” tube a cheap alternative was to superglue a length of wire into the area to be curved (to the dia of a Humbrol tinlet)This also had the advantage of filling the hole in the end of the tube. 
The “spurnwater” at the after end of the roof gave some pause for thought, so I decided to experiment with a strip of 1/16” x 1/8” plasticard…the curves being formed around the same tinlet. The “colour” is given by 4 coats of Ronseal “Walnut” wood varnish, and then the completed item was carefully drilled in a few places and fixed to the roof with short lengths of brass wire.
The lifebuoy is made from a wooden ring as used in Macrame work. Flats sanded on the upper and lower faces, the 4 bands are short lengths of heavy-duty “duck tape”. No attached lifeline is fitted as the buoy is primarily decorative. I’m hoping to be able to use the buoy as a switch for the cabin interior LED lighting, but I haven’t quite worked that one out.
Lots of progress on the engine/boileroom casing. Next time.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 30, 2012, 02:49:17 PM
But I soon realised that I had a bit more work to do on the cabin roof…..the Nameboard.
This is where I break away from the “truth”
When I first joined the RFA in 1966 from Cable & Wireless, my first appointment was as 3rd Officer on the almost brand new RFA “Resource”. Over the next almost 30 years she (and her sister “Regent”) became a regular appointment in various ranks.
During 1993/4 I was again appointed to “Resource”. This time she was employed as a fully loaded  armament/stores ship in Split (Croatia). She was also kept at 24 hours notice for sailing. Quite a workout for the Engineers, being a large steam turbine ship.
But this was to be our final farewell. I took early retirement, and she went off to Alang to be broken up. So this Admirals Barge is just as a sort of memory to her.
The photo is of Regent….but apart from the fact that the aftermost rig  (specifically for transfer of “Sea Slug” missiles)is the opposite way round to that on Resource there’s no real difference between the ships. Why the opposite way round?  Easy, so the 2 ships could transfer between themselves.

The 2 pics of the cabin roof show it as a finished unit.
The buoy chocks were easier to make than I expected. Mainly done with the “assistance” of both sizes of cylindrical sanding gizmos in the mini-drill. Marking their location etc was a bit of a trial though. Finished up by taping a bit of paper to the painted roof and drawing the arrangement then pinning the chocks so the fastening holes would be more or less correct.
The nameboard was again relatively straightforward. Find a font that looks suitable, print it out (to a large size) in “negative” format, and scale the final size to suit using the printers scaling capacity. Sandwich the 2 names between 2 bits of 30thou acetate and build up the wood framing with 1mm veneer. Varnish and job done.
     And so, after months of work, the cabin section is now complete (with the exception of the lighting and hanging of the curtains. All now and again enjoyable, more usually a complete pain in the tripes..
Now to concentrate on finishing the Engine/Boileroom casing
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: sailorboy61 on September 30, 2012, 05:16:19 PM
July to November 1995 on the resource in Split for me, a great time was had by all despite the odd occasion of walking into a bar that was definitely in use by the 'enemy'!
Oh and I recall weekends when the war 'stopped' and they all came home to recover, along with their tanks and light weapons which were regularly discharged in the street to celebrate!
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on September 30, 2012, 07:16:50 PM
July to November 1995 on the resource in Split for me, a great time was had by all despite the odd occasion of walking into a bar that was definitely in use by the 'enemy'!
Oh and I recall weekends when the war 'stopped' and they all came home to recover, along with their tanks and light weapons which were regularly discharged in the street to celebrate!
I'd guess that wasn't long before she came home again?
It was a bit different during '93. My diary of events was posted here a couple of years ago. Cheers. BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on October 01, 2012, 06:07:11 PM
Sent pm to you brian.baloo
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 01, 2012, 06:33:54 PM
Thanks Martin, all received. Now I just have to digest it! Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 01, 2012, 06:36:02 PM
Moving from one aspect (unit) to another is a welcome relief….a bit like moving on to another model, which in a way, it is.
The last pic of the casing was a bit of a lash-up just to show the positions of the main bits. It’s all progressed a bit since then.
I daren’t show a pic of the interior of this structure. Suffice it to say that it looks like the inside of the mouth of a giant metal Venus Fly Trap. The deck is now permanently fitted (screwed and glued) and faired in as well as I can manage. Two coats of white primer followed by 2 coats of “Appliance White”. Seems OK.
Being an impatient soul, Next to be fitted were the stanchions and rails. Although the stanchions are 1” tall, they still proved pretty fiddly to fit properly.
Next came the bowmans seat, with some sort of representation of the folding mechanism. The seat does take away some of the “blandness” of the forward end. Similarly at the back end….There’s a sort of cage structure to which (eventually) the compass will be fitted. Another set of things that have to be made and fitted are the “hold-back” stanchions that enable small hatches to be locked in the “open” position. These things come in many guises, but the simplest (non-automatic) system is a simple peg through an eye. The “auto” version (which really should be fitted here) involves spring loading….a task I’m unable to carry out.
Towards the forward end of the casing are 4 brackets that are small versions of the boathook brackets. I’ve got a sneaky feeling that they may be for rifle stowage. But I could be wrong. In fact, I hope I am wrong as 4 3ft long rifles (3” at this scale) may be difficult to find, and I’m certainly not going to even consider making them!
Items remaining….well, the attachment of the funnel stays for one. Some photos show bottle screws, others show cord lashings. I think I’ll go for the cord.
    The 2 cowl vents shown here are just dummies to show me the positioning. These rough things only took me a half-hour or so to knock up and coat with “brass” paint. …the “real” ones are of a much higher standard (not difficult when compared to the things shown here!).I must get organised and get the real ones plated. At least 2 trips through the Tyne tunnel at £1.40 each way. More extortion.


Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: pugwash on October 01, 2012, 10:29:05 PM
Bryan I am very impressed by the engine room casing with most of its fittings  in place - it has gone from a unit with very awkward rounded corners
to a seriously smart part of the boat - if the rest looks as good as that it is going to be a great model

Geoff
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 04, 2012, 06:53:26 PM
Well, the time had to come eventually for me to up sticks and leave my warm little room for the garage. I’ve been putting off work on the hull until I ran out of excuses
Spent the best part of a day rubbing down the hull and giving it 2 coats of white primer. Next day rub down again and have an “enjoyable” couple of hours marking off the waterline. My goodness, hasn’t the price of Tamiya masking tape rocketed up!
Now up to  £507.
Sorry about this Martin (Balloo), but a brief hunt around locally failed to find a specialised paint mixer willing to mix up such a complicated looking recipe in the quantity I need without being extortionate. So I decided to try the can of Halfords “Citroen “Admiral Blue”. If it didn’t work then I could always rub it down again. I must admit to some misgivings after the first coat was applied (too pale), but after 3 coats it settled down into a rather nice “blue-black”. I’ll eventually have to rub it down again for the final coats, but that won’t be until I’ve done a few more things to the hull.
     Today was nervously (but happily) spent cutting out the apertures for the Engine casing and cabin. I think successfully. I half expected the cabin structure to sit a bit high within the hull….and so I wasn’t all that upset when such proved to be the case.  But I still expect some problems to arise when I get round to fitting the prop shaft. Another reason why I decided to make and fit the cabin before fitting the shaft.
And all this even after following the plans more religiously than I usually do!
Looking at the deck (before planking) it’s quite clear that the area of maximum camber is largely taken up by the engine casing and at least the forward part of the cabin. So rather than fit another false deck I’ve decided to use different thicknesses of planking glued directly on to the deck you see in the pics. Then sand them down to shape. Might take longer, but it should save some precious weight.But the next task is to brace the deck and consider the making of the forward bulwarks. BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: baloo on October 04, 2012, 07:17:38 PM
Brian,are you going to make a 3pdr hotchkiss gun as well lol.Martin
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 04, 2012, 08:20:35 PM
Hi, Martin.
Nope. No guns. I believe that we were at peace in 1919....so this was just an Admirals "look at lucky me" thingy.
Regards. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 22, 2012, 05:36:49 PM
Just thought that I’d write down the “bought-in”, helped with items on this model. (so far).
Raw materials excluded….we all have to buy stuff.
All the rest, mistakes and all are all my own efforts….
1.   The brass funnel. Kindly made and donated by Jake Kelso of TMBC.
2.   Scuttle rims and glasses are by RM Models (still Polish?).
3.   Boathooks. The brass ends were made for me by Barry McKay.
4.   Stanchions are bought from James Lane.
5.   Brass “Dolphins” made and cast by a local Jeweller.
6.   Hull. A joint effort. I made the original “plug” and Kim McLean of Clyde Models made the mould and laid up the final hull.
7.   Cowl Vents.  Another joint effort. I made the master plugs and Jim Lane used his big vac-former to produce the shells. Then I had to get them both to look presentable.
“Stuff” has been progressing. Although not quite as slow as a “snails-pace”, certainly not as fast as that of a cockroach.  As you might have gathered, I’ve been a bit discombobulated (always wanted to use that word, but never really had the opportunity!) due to the unexpected recovery of “Hunan” after her 11 year voyage into parts unknown.
But, as always, cost has escalated. That was £20 for a HiTec  “Half Height”“Retract” servo for the rudder. The space and hull form beneath the area aft of the cabin is very restricted. But this gizmo seems to fit OK.
So now up to £580.
As of the 20th Oct. I’m now well into the 2nd week of trying to get the stern gratings to look and fit as I’d like. There are 4 of them covering an area of  5.5” x  5.5”. And shaped to fit into the odd shaped stern area. And the whole caboodle has to be removable to allow access to the steering gear. All very interesting but so time consuming.
More expense…only £13 this time ( just sundries like a new razor-saw blade, sanding discs and the like)…but that’s now £595 (I round up or down to the nearest £5).
I don’t for one moment expect that you will, but if you check back on where the money went you’ll probably find that a fair proportion of it was spent on “sundries”, “stuff” you need to buy to keep you going. This is partly the reason for this exercise.
     Over the years I’ve spoken to many modellers who massively underestimate just how much a model has actually cost to build. And this includes Kit builders.

     After many days of cogitation I began to realise that there was no “easy” way to get the stern gratings to fit and also be removable. The actual construction of the gratings was simple enough given that all the bits were “pre-made”. But, naturally enough, they were made to be made into a regular square cornered shape. Mine aren’t. So each slat had to be glued in place to avoid them lifting when being cut and shaped. Then came the problem of getting the completed unit to fit into the deck without simply dropping through into the hull. So a secondary “landing” had to be made but fixed at a level that would allow the gratings to stand proud of the unplanked deck by 1/16”. What a fiddle that was.
Then the edge trim surround had to be addressed. In no way could I get non-ply timber to go around the curve at the aft end. Nothing for it but to cut the side pieces out of the solid. The 3 enclosed pics should show you my solution to the problem. Final rubbing down and blending in will be done once the deck is planked.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Capt Podge on October 22, 2012, 06:38:58 PM
Agree with you there Bryan, the photographs do indeed help us to understand the problem and subsequent solution - nice one !  O0

A crackin' job that - well done that man  :-))

Regards,

Ray.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny on October 22, 2012, 08:17:44 PM

What a pleasure to watch Brian.   :}   


Ken
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 25, 2012, 06:46:51 PM
I suppose that the efforts of the last couple of weeks work was just “displacement work”. OK, it had to be done eventually, but the more important job has always been the forward bulwarks. Quite frankly, I’ve been at a loss as to how to make and secure them. Hoping for divine intervention hasn’t worked. Nor has the hoped for flash of inspiration yet to occur. Cutting the things to shape is no problem. Getting them to sit vertically is. On the model they will be 14.5” long (and only 1” high). But the hull form ranges from vertical at the bows to nowhere near vertical further back. Just sticking them to the top of the hull would sort of work, but would be as weak as rice paper. Internal bracing is obviously called for.
    No divine inspiration….but sheer desperation seems to have given me the answer. I figured that Aralditing strips of 1/32” ply to the inside of the hull and projecting up by 1” (the height of the bulwarks) with a slight “score” line at deck level, to let me put a slight bend into the strips to get the upper part vertical might do the trick. I appreciate that this score line is a potential weak point, But I reckon that when the underdeck and planking is butted up (total depth of 1/8”) that should bolster the area a bit.
The eagle-eyed among you will notice that the 2nd strip from for’d has slipped a bit. But I think I can live with that.
I used the “24hr “ Araldite for this little lot…so everything ground to a halt.
Toddled off to the Model Shop to fill in a bit of time, but mainly to exchange the servo I bought the other day for one that doesn’t slap through 180* (the “Retract” item). And then more expense. £11 for rudder tiller arms and ball joint connections (I prefer a “push-pull” system to single levers). Halfords for more paint and Araldite…another £11.
   Now up to £615. All mounting up! But it’s supposed to be “fun”; right?
Shaping and placing the bulwark sides was no real problem, but which way should the grain of the ply run? Both seemed to work OK, but eventually I decided that “crossgrain was ultimately better. I wasn’t prepared for the weight of the clamps (light as they are) to tend to pull the side panel out of the vertical. Cogitate.
Simple solution, Lie the hull on its side and let the clamps own leverage keep the thing upright. So that’s it for another 18 hours or so. See what happens then!.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on October 30, 2012, 05:06:35 PM
Well, that worked. Amazing how strong 2 layers of 1/32” ply can be! But I need a 3rd layer . The finishing one. This layer needs to be cut more accurately than the other 2, and it also needs a “cut-out” to show where the fairleads will fit. I’ve put this 3rd layer on with a contact adhesive. Mainly because I’ve run out of the “Slow” Araldite, and didn’t trust the “Rapid” not to set before I’d got the strake positioned and clamped. If it doesn’t work, then so be it.
Three layers of 1/32nd ply is still only about 1.025” at this scale, so it shouldn’t look overscale. Both inside and outside of the bulwarks will be clad with plasticard….makes painting easier! That will probably be done with double-sided tape. But I also need this extra bit of thickness to give a better “landing” area for the bulwark capping. But I’ll get to that eventually.
The “internal” bulwark bracing pieces looked a real mess in the previous post. But now the gaps have been filled with 1/32” ply to give a reasonably smooth interior finish. These will be left “bare” until I’ve sprayed the exterior. Avoids overspray colour …White over dark blue is not a good idea.
           Too much thought can cause a brain overload. That leads to procrastination. Something I never suffered from in my “working life”, but it becomes almost endemic when model building. “What will this affect if I do such’n’such?” Or, “What is the downside of doing that?” There comes a point when the brain just makes up its own mind and gets on with it. Such was the case when it came to fitting the 3rd of the bulwark layers. Contact adhesive this time. Worked a treat.
    But one of the most difficult tasks (to my mind) was to be the fixing down of the main deck.
In general I suppose it’s normal to fit the deck within the boundaries of the hull. At least, that’s the way I’ve always done it. But not this time. This time I had to lay and fix the main deck (and subsequent planking) so all the timber came to the outer edge of the hull. Although have cut it a bit oversize for future trimming. This will add 1/8” to the hull depth. I need that 1/8th so I have something to fix the decorative rubbing strake to. Part on the hull and half flush to the deck, with the spurnwater mounted on the planking but touching the top of the rubbing strake.
But more of that later. Fastening the deck down. Slow-set Araldite and lots of clamps, heavy books etc. Fingers crossed and see the results tomorrow.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 03, 2012, 07:41:43 PM
After years of shilly-shallying at various scales, I’ve eventually decided to see if I can make a joggled deck. I’m still a bit unsure of the way to do it.
But before that happens the inside of the bulwarks needed cladding. 20 thou plasticard did that, stuck down very nicely with D.S tape. The margin planks were a bit of a problem…lots of eye-balling and sanding and so on.
All the deck planking will be of Obeche. The margin planks are 0.5” wide and all the others are 3/8” wide. This equates to 6” for the margin planks and 4.5” for all the others. Unless I decide otherwise as things move on. The margin planks had to be cut “on the bias” of the grain…a bit of a waste of wood, but the results are better. All stuck down with normal UHU or Bostik contact adhesive.
But then I realised that I’d have to do the surrounds for the 2 hatches before I could lay any planks. The “caulking is 20 thou black plasticard cut into 1/16” strips. Looks a bit of a mess at the moment, but will all clean up later on. I’m quite enjoying this part of the build. Slow, but “different” ….and something new to me. I hope it all works!
 
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 06, 2012, 05:08:14 PM
A couple of days of casual labour and that’s the foredeck basically done. At least as far as planking is concerned.
Pics 1 and 3 are before sanding off the rough edges, 2 and 4 are sanded, but not completed. I won’t touch this area again until the first 2 coats of matte lacquer are applied and hardened off. This will allow a better finish to be obtained. But if my experience with the planking of “Bluebird of Chelsea” is anything to go by, it’ll take at least another half dozen light coats of lacquer (each sanded down) before I’m happy with it.
Another reason for posting these “before and after” photos is to show the effectiveness of plasticard as a caulking medium. At this scale (1:12) I find that 20 thou plasticard is about right, but thinner stuff is available for other scales until you get to something like 1:48 scale when a single layer of plastic insulation tape is pretty good.
Now for the rest of the decking.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: DickyD on November 06, 2012, 05:24:06 PM
Cant these bl**dy question marks be sorted out (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/angry2.gif)


Lovely job Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 06, 2012, 05:31:27 PM
Not just question marks Dicky. Just about all punctuation marks seem to become little empty squares.
In fact....to my mind,at least....this entire new "upgrade / modernisation" etc sucks.  Harder to read for one thing. Then everything went upside down. Why fix something that ain't broke (as the man said). BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Capt Podge on November 06, 2012, 09:09:05 PM
Looks like the problem with punctuation has been resolved Bryan, you're latest posting is, once again, perfectly readable - well done to whoever put it right.  :-))
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: kraftykid on November 07, 2012, 08:00:29 AM
Why fix something that ain't broke (as the man said). BY.
     
i agree the old mayhem was fine but maby the change is due to the issues last year , i imagine the problems won't last long its like having a new modelboat you have to ballast it and sort out anyother problems      kk
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: irishcarguy on November 07, 2012, 08:17:23 AM
Nice to see you back KK, I was actually worried about you, I thought some nice girl had stolen you away. Sorry Brian I did not mean to interrupt your thread. I do agree with you Brian, sometimes change creates more problems than it solves, but who are we to question the powers that be. I am sure there is a perfect explanation somewhere, it is just the job of finding it. We will love it in a few months, just about the time it changes again.  Mick B.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 07, 2012, 05:23:18 PM
Mick...chip in whenever you feel the need! Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 09, 2012, 04:50:23 PM
The after part of the forward part (if you get my meaning) was, if anything trickier than the area bounded by the bulwarks. Not just because of the big hole in the middle where the casing will (should) slot into, but getting the wooden deck edges flush with the hull. I mentioned earlier that I’ve taken (for me) the unusual step of fitting the deck on top of the hull rather than inset it into the hull. This is all to do with the rubbing strake and spurnwater. But more on those when I get there.
The first pic is “work in rogress”. 2nd and 3rd are “work done”….at least until I’ve got a couple of lacquer layers on it. The 3rd only serves to show that modelling doesn’t need “modelling” tools. Heavy, noisy and dirty machine,yes…but used with a light touch good results can be had with little effort.
I’m more than a little pleased with the way the main casing just slips into its designated “hole”. But not yet completed. In the pic (No.4) the whole unit is resting on the 30thou thick plasticard plating. I intend to surround the entire structure with an “L” shaped plasticard strip. Not an angle bar sort of thing….the one with one leg longer than the other.Should work OK.
The next stage is one I’m not really looking forward to. Fitting the cabin and its surrounding deck. Interesting times.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: irishcarguy on November 09, 2012, 10:53:02 PM
It really is starting to take shape now Brian, it is nice to see. We can all learn from watching your work & your approach to problems & the way you solve them, thank you so much for sharing, Mick B.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 10, 2012, 02:19:52 PM
Mick.
Thanks for that. Now I know that at least 3 people are reading this guff!Actually, writing it all down as I go along rather than after the event is a bit of a bonus. Writing after things are done makes it very easy to skip over problems (solved or not solved) and the various blunders that invariably occur. Came across a beauty today: a blunder, that is. For the first time in ages the sun happened to just at an angle through my window that showed up some (read “more than some”) rather nasty blemishes in the hull paint. So I’m afraid that the hull will need some fine rubbing down and re-spraying. Which in turn means masking off the planked deck. Especially round the edges. Rats. I’m not looking forward to this one little bit. But nobody else is going to do it ….so it’s up to me to get on with it. Eventually! Cheers. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 14, 2012, 05:50:02 PM
Aargh!…more expense.
Most of it necessary….but what stuck in my gullet was the fact that I had to buy a metre of the “L” shaped plasticard, much more than I needed. One length was 4” short of surrounding the engine casing. OK, it’s only about £1.50 wasted, but these things add up. All in all I’ve spent a further £34 on “sundries” such as plasticard strip sections (will be used to fabricate the rubbing band), spray lacquer and some brass tubing that will eventually become the ensign staff and its support structure.
So I’m going to call it £650 so far. So the “Good News” is that the whole thing has “only” cost me £80 per month since I started back in March. Call it £20 a week which is around £3 a day. Less than 10 ciggies.
     Ever had the experience of following a plan for months, only to find that something irreversible emerges? Well, I’ve just joined that club. The Barge is steered via a double chain linkage from the helmsman to the tiller arm. The chains run along the top edge of the rubbing strake passing over 2 small wheels before the chain disappears under the stern grating. All well and good. But the plans show the grating(s) flush to the deck, so there’s no way the chain get to the tiller. I really don’t know how to solve this problem. I suppose I could raise the grating level…but all for the sake of making less than half an inch of small chain look like it knows what it’s doing? Maybe not. But it bothers me.

       But now I’m getting a little fed-up with “structure”. Still plenty to do of course, But perhaps it’s time to break the “Heavy Brigade” out of long hibernation and see if I can remember how to use the lathe. Just a thought at the moment, but at least I’m thinking about it for the first time since I started this project.
The attached photo is a paper mock-up of the compass and helmsmans position. Not much room for a chubby coxwain.
But that layout gives pause for thought. Forget the compass. The wheel will be of brass. But what do I make the steering pedestal from? Brass or aluminium. Brass sheaves, obviously, I’m tending towards aluminium (to be painted white). But no matter what material I select, I feel that it’s going to be a bit of a head scratcher to make. Any ideas are welcome!
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny on November 14, 2012, 09:38:34 PM

As you have a lathe, could you not use hard wood.  It will turn easily and working on the top part will be easier.

Just a thought.

Ken
 
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 14, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
Kenny....No, to wood of any sort.
It has to be of metal so I can get the thin edges....and the strength to hold the sheaves. I think I'll go for aluminiumif I can find an offcut from somewhere. In no way do I want to have to buy an Industrial length for the sake of making something only a few inches tall.
But thananks for your concern and idea. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny on November 14, 2012, 10:19:50 PM

Of course, I didn't realise they were sheaves enclosed within.  You are right. Wood is not strong enough here.

What diameter will you need before you start turning it. ?  We can all look in our junk boxes .   ok2

Ken

Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: kiwimodeller on November 15, 2012, 09:02:45 AM
Bryam I am sure I have seen plans and/or photos showing the grating flush with the deck each side and raised in the centre 1/3rd. I am away for a couple of days but will pull out the literature I have when I get back Sunday and see if I can find anything. Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 16, 2012, 02:02:20 PM
First of all…..thanks to Kenny and Kiwi for their answers.
Kenny first. Although I originally dismissed the notion of using wood for the steering gear pedestal I got to thinking more about this structure. It’s the drawings that are confusing. It isn’t a job for the lathe at all. I looked at the diameter of the sheaves and sketched them out as if looking from for’d (or aft). To allow the chains to be concealed between the upper and lower sheaves the unit must be slab sided and not round. (in section). So it looks as if I may be able to fabricate the thing from various thicknesses of plasticard. The sheaves will still be of brass….as will a couple of other bits. So, Kenny. Although we were both mistaken with our original ideas, you did give me pause for more thought. For that I thank you.
Kiwi.
I still don’t know where to go re. these chains. They really do have to run along the top of the rubbing strake and pass through cutouts in the deck spurnwater strip. Which puts the “run” into/under the gratings at deck level. I’m too far along with it now to start chopping the gratings up into “thirds”. I think I’m going to have to simply fudge it and hope it isn’t too noticeable. But as I said, it bothers me, and I just know that whenever I look at the completed model I’m going to notice it..even if others don’t. But having a presently unsolved problem doesn’t prevent me doing other things while thinking about it. So I’ve busied myself making the 2 hatches that sit on the foredeck
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Kim on November 17, 2012, 10:51:16 PM
 Hi Bryan,
Now… You could use wood or you could use a metal or … you could go 3d print …  you did confess to being a dab hand at cad albeit on an early cad programme….
Maybe 3d print it in ABS … I know a man that can help  :-))
Regards,
Kim
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Stavros on November 17, 2012, 11:36:17 PM
I have some thin ali if you want it pm me your address and Ill send you some up,easy to cut with a gilbo around 1/16th thick
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 18, 2012, 03:52:26 PM
Kim and Stavros.
Very kind offers from the pair of you.
However. Looking into my various “archives” I find that the drawing on my plans isn’t representative of the type. More a flight of fancy, in my opinion.
     A boat of 45ft in length doesn’t really require the sort of geared steering gear as would be used on a river tug of slightly more length (and weight). It could probably be steered by one man on a tiller without ill effects. Then, considering that the rudder wouldn’t operate beyond 40* either way (and that’s optimistic), I reckon that one full turn of the wheel would be enough to go from amidships to “hard over” one way or the other. So that comes down to the diameter of the (chain) pulleys attached to the steering wheel. This makes my life simpler. I can fabricate the housing structure from plasticard with stiffening edges and so on to resemble a pair of iron castings.
   All that needs tinking about now is how to cut neat channels into the wooden decking that are both guides and protection for the chains.
    Such is the fun of scratch-building. No instruction book to slavishly follow. Work out ones own solutions and get on with it. A form of “education” in a way!
    But first, complete the 2 for’d hatches. Pics of them soon. Then I might have a go at the scaffolding job that supports the ensign staff.
As always, solve one problem and another rears its head.
But now that I’m over a really nasty cold/flu that laid me low for awhile and
some good support from at least 3 club members, I’m beginning to enjoy this build again.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 20, 2012, 04:10:07 PM
      One of the more “awkward” aspects of boats and ships is that vertical panels/plates are always vertical to a pure horizontal (the LWL is generally a good guide) no matter how severe the deck line sheer is. This makes a big visual difference on a model.
This is easily seen when it came to making the 2 hatches on the foredeck. The hull sheer is quite pronounced in this area. In this instance I also wanted to bring the top of the hatches closer to the horizontal rather than following the sheer line….mainly to allow the short handrail on the for’d hatch to follow the line of handrails on the engine room casing. It finished up with the after end of the skylight being 1/16” deeper than the for’d end. Doesn’t sound much, but makes a big difference to the visual aspect.
    The steel hatch is a simple construction. The main “structure” is a block of balsa clad with plasticard (stuck on with double-sided tape)The only fittings required for this hatch are the hinges (plastic  tubing), the “eye” that fits into the vertical “hold-back” stanchion, the handgrip and the 2 locking dogs,
    The skylight in the first pic is the basic “box” before smoothing off the edges prior to cladding with plasticard and fitting the 3 stanchions and handrail (pic 2). The stanchions are set into short lengths of alloy tubing with a brass washer around the base. Pic 3 is the completed unit. The main component of the 2 wooden “lids” is the transparent “glazing” The wood veneer is stuck on to the glazing with contact adhesive, trimmed and the edges painted to disguise the edges of the glazing. This was followed by 3 coats of Walnut varnish. The brass window bars were a fiddle to get into place, and they aren’t perfect…but that’s the best I could do with little in the way of binocular vision. Hinges are just bits of brass tubing lightly scored to show the 3 segments.
Now I’ll find something else to do. Steering gear perhaps….but I’d really like to do the ensign staff supports as they have a big impact on the final look of the model.
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on November 29, 2012, 04:12:57 PM
Oh, woe, woe and thrice woe!
Another failure to distrust so-called “accurate” plans. Here’s me trying to teach the old dictum of “measure twice and cut once”….and then trust in somebody else.
I specifically spaced the gap between the cabin and the engine room casing to the dimensions “as shown”. All has went well until I made up the framework of the steering pedestal. Now that 2 days thought and work has elapsed I thought I’d got it cracked. The pedestal looks good, but there just isn’t enough space for the helmsman, unless he happens to be 6ft tall and as thin as a rake.
I have a couple of choices here.
My main preference is to keep the pedestal “independent” (i.e. stand alone) to allow the steering chains to have a continuous run without being “broken”.
Or secondly, to attach the pedestal to the engine room casing. Which means breaking/disguising/ the chain.
Both alternatives will mean using a smaller than desired chain.
Going down the second route could give me a bit more space to allow for a coxwain of more normal proportions.
At the moment I’m not very happy about either solution. I suppose that it’s a salutary lesson to all of us (be it scratch or kit building) to be aware that “people” are supposed to fit and be able to work in the spaces allowed.
     So, 2 days later and mk 2 version done. This unit will be permanently fixed to the engine casing and compass support structure. The only advantage I can see over my original idea is that there’ll be no danger of clouting the pedestal when removing or replacing the engine casing. Win some, lose some I guess.
   The 2 enclosed pics primarily show the steering pedestal nestling up against the compass support. Another thing I must get around to making. This entire casing unit slides very neatly into the deck cut-out…with the “L” shaped plasticard section that sits on the deck when it’s in place.
I found (when finishing off “Bluebird of Chelsea”) that water ingress into the hull without recourse to large coamings could be prevented by making this sort of structure and coating the “hidden” part (the bit below the “L” flange) with a layer of petroleum jelly (or “Vaseline), which is my intention again this time. The same will apply around the base of the cabin.
I’ve had to buy a slightly smaller chain than I’d have liked…..but that’s really the only way I could think of to hide the chain entry into the stern grating area. Rats. But it’s the thought that counts, isn’t it?
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on December 10, 2012, 05:14:18 PM
Pondering on “the way ahead” during this nasty cold spell I decided to content myself with doing the rubbing strake. If “content” is anywhere close to the right word.
There was jus no way I could use real timber around the stern area…the remainder (from about 8” for’d of the sharp curves would be quite easy in timber, So I decided on Plasticard sections for the whole thing. This would make the “unit” a 6 component part. As one of my respondents noted, I don’t make things easy for myself! But it’s the end result that counts. In “real” life this thing is almost 9” from deck level to the bottom. So I’m looking at around ¾” at this scale. A mock-up showed this to look a bit silly. So I’ve gone for ½” max.
     Remember that when I started this build all of 9 months ago, I promised a “warts’n’all tale. Well, this is a big “wart”.
I got the top 4 components fitted to the hull OK. But to make it all look like walnut, I began varnishing the unit with “Ronseal” walnut varnish. I’ve had excellent results with this stuff…but not over an area this large/prominent. It all started to dry “blotchy”. I just couldn’t get a regular, even coat. OK in parts but the overall effect was pretty awful. Pondering time. It then struck me that varnish by its very nature is meant to be transparent. Even the coloured variety. Otherwise it would be called paint. So the white plastic extrusion material was showing through. Idiot. I hadn’t put a base coat of paint over the white. So. Mask it all off again, rub down the blotches and re-coat with a flat base colour (pale brown). And now I find that I’ll probably have to repaint the dark blue hull. Some days just don’t work out as expected.
      The first pic shows the various components of the rubbing strake. The concave bit is painted gold, but I won’t fit this and the quadrant bit underneath it until I’ve rubbed down and repainted the blue part of the hull.
Pic 2 shows the complete pigs ear I made of the varnishing (foreground) but the background section is after remedial treatment was carried out. I think it will take another coat of the walnut varnish to both give it a better sheen and make it look a bit more “wood like”.
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Martin [Admin] on December 12, 2012, 09:47:24 PM
PM me the post Bryan and I'll see if I can post it.

Martin    :-)
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on December 14, 2012, 03:59:22 PM
Now that the “renovation” work is now more or less done the difference is much more to my liking.Didn’t enjoy doing it…but I sort of like the result. Spent most of a day struggling to fit the gold concave section. It kept trying to twist, but eventually stuck down. The gold gives just that touch of contrast between the “brown” and the blue, so much so that I’ve decided not to fit the quadrant section below the gold. Using the concave section looks a lot better than using a simple strip of flat tape. (pic no.1)
   Pic 2 is mainly of some new additions. Just started on the ensign staffso a fair amount of work still to be done there. Then there’s the “spare” boathook behind the cabin coaming. The 2 mooring posts (cut down stanchions to maintain a sort of family resemblance) and 2 of the 4 pulleys for the steering chain. There’s also the 2 “stand alone” stanchions to aid the wobbly Admiral getting on and of “his” boat. The 2 stern fairleads are simple plastic things trimmed to fit into the spurnwater.
The final 2 shots are basically more of the same but from a different angle.
Still a long way to go!
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: rmaddock on December 14, 2012, 04:08:07 PM
Oh yes. Looking good  :}
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on December 14, 2012, 04:17:58 PM
Oh yes. Looking good  :}
     Thank you for that. I was getting quite worried that something "terminal" had happened.
I was going to complete the ensign staff today...but as the light outside has been near total darkness all day I gave up on any yhoughts of "garage" work and continued with the chain steering arrangement. More soon. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: irishcarguy on December 14, 2012, 04:21:45 PM
Hi Brian, you do lovely work & it is a pleasure to see it on here & to follow your progress. I hope you have a Merry Xmas & a happy new year as well. Mick B.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on December 14, 2012, 04:27:26 PM
I've just been looking at your Dolphins there Bryan - very nice they are too.

Dave.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on December 19, 2012, 05:04:06 PM
It sure seems that this week has been the “short straw” week.
Started off with that dratted computer glitch. At least that didn’t cost anything. But today ….a different story. Decided to heave out the (Emco) mini drill/mill with its compound table to cut a slot into the tubular brass ensign staff That went OK, but after switching on again to drill a couple of simple holes there was a big blue flash and a bang. Haven’t a clue about the cause. Either the motor or the blessed (and complicated) switch. Perhaps I see an expensive Xmas present on the horizon. I mean, just where can you get stuff repaired these days without having to spend a fortune on shipping costs. A great pity really, as I do like this machine. If it’s the switch then I may be able to replace it with the new one I bought for another machine but haven’t got around to fitting. But I’m certainly not going to fork out a fortune on a new motor. It’s always surprised me that a new motor for my Proxxon lathe was almost half the cost of the inferior one fitted to my old Unimat lathe.
       Anyway. I’m now up to £720 for the barge. Mainly “sundries” like paint and glue.
      But enough of all that.
The last couple of days have been spent fitting the steering chains….Mrs.Y gets on with the buying and wrapping of “stuff” as Xmas approaches.
Pic 1 is of the general layout of the aft decking (with the exception of the yet to be fitted ensign staff halyard fittings).
Pics 2 & 3 are general shots showing the chain run.
Pic 4 is the run of the chain through a channel to the steering pedestal…..removable at this stage until I fit the wheel and compass.
      The 8 little rollers guiding the chains (actually keeping the chains from gauging the woodwork) are simple enough to make. A very short length of plastic tubing, 2 discs (plasticard) cut with a multi-headed leather punch and a bit of wire down the tube. Superglue together and trim the back of the discs flat with a pair of the wifes nail cutters. Paint brass and fit.
     I’ve just made out a list of the 25 jobs that still need doing/making “on deck”. No doubt the list will grow.
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: pugwash on December 19, 2012, 11:49:21 PM
Bryan this is totally different to your previous builds but it is turning into a real classy model.
Excellent 
Geoff
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on December 22, 2012, 10:56:14 AM
Glancing over my more recent postings about this build, I find that all the photos over the last 3 months have been of “bits” and none showing the “whole”. So as it’s coming up to the time for an involuntary break in proceedings, I’ll show how it looks at the moment…..after 9 and a half months from conception date. But as I said earlier; still a long way to go.
      Thanks for all your viewings and postings. Without your support and encouragement it could well have become a rather dreary task.
So have a pleasant Xmas break and a productive new year.
Regards to you all.  Bryan Young.
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Tug-Kenny on December 22, 2012, 11:13:30 AM

Love it.    :-))

Thanks for showing the latest views. Well worth the effort.

Have a nice holiday break.

Ken

Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: vnkiwi on December 22, 2012, 11:32:04 AM
Beautiful Bryan, and a merry Christmas to you and yours, with a safe and happy New Year to follow
Thank you for the brilliant build
vnkiwi
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Kim on December 23, 2012, 12:16:13 AM
Hi Bryan,
I really do like the overall view you have posted she really looks good.
I have to say i't was a priveledge to be involved in a small way and i look forward to seeing her on the water..
Wishing you & family the best for Christmas and 2013.
Regards,
Kim
Title: Re: Bryan's “Modellers Draught”. 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on December 23, 2012, 01:58:57 AM
The attached photo is a paper mock-up of the compass and helmsmans position.

I always think the builds that show the thoughts behind the actions are the builds I learn something from. I never would have thought of placing a paper mock up into the real model before making the actual part. It is something I'll definitely keep in mind. Oh yes, A Very Merry Christmas to you and yours Bryan.

Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: chipchase on December 23, 2012, 09:50:30 AM
  I now this model has given you quite a few headaches over the course of the build Bryan, but looking at how she is starting to look it has certainly been worth it. :-)) Have a nice Christmas and all the best for the New Year.
Brian
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: nemesis on December 23, 2012, 07:39:03 PM
If you are lucky it could be the Capacitor on the motor which has blown. From the description that is what it sounds like, I hope.  Nemesis
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 05, 2013, 01:37:30 PM
So let the new year begin.
Nice to see 3 of the many Brians/Bryans from TMBC posting! Brian Chambers is on another thread with his Mauretania. It's also nice to see that we all have a different approach to scratch building and build widely differing sorts of models. Much more interesting that way!
Gospel according to the Life of Bryan:-….Hangovers and me can no longer co-exist.
What used to be a trivial one hour malady has, for some reason, decided to last for 2 days.
     Once the head was clear again I began to muse on “things” I’d forgotten to do. Plus, I was getting more than a little fed-up with this enforced jollity season.
One of the oddball things about this model is that I haven’t been able to use bulkheads to divide the hull up into watertight compartments. Mainly ‘cos I don’t know (as yet) where the battery will have to go. I may still be able to fit a bulkhead up for’d, and I Might just be able to squeeze one in down aft, but the entire centre section will have to remain “open”. A length of perhaps 40” out of a total length of 50”. So shaped foam blocks could well be called for. Many model builders think that putting foam blocks into a hull improves buoyancy when the hull is flooded. Well, it does, but they don’t actually improve buoyancy…..what they really do is to deny water the space to add weight into the hull. Just a small point.
But then I realised that the biggest access for water was through the stern gratings. Silly of me, but not the 1st or indeed the last mistake. So I’ve sealed that up with a sheet of black plasticard.
     A few other things struck me. These Steam Picket boats tended to live on board a ship. But the plans show no lifting arrangements for the 15 ton weight.
     Another thing is the fitting of the coaling scuttles. In general, all deck fittings on a planked deck have custom made margin planks. But this assumes that there’s a steel deck under the planking. On a pure wooden hull the cross beams required are few and far between, so in many cases the so-called “margin planks” were fitted on the top of the main deck planks with their edges chamfered. I remembered this from my early career time aboard my 2 ancient cable-repair ships. Both of which had no steel top-deck but deck planking laid directly on to the hull framing.
     Navigation lights. A bit of a moot point here. I’ve got photos of these barges fitted with and without the screens. But just to add a bit of colour, I’ve fitted them. No lamps are or will be fitted. Reason? What’s the point of fitting unlit oil lamps during daylight?      The 2 pics:-
The 1st is just a general shot basically showing the amount of access I have to the interior of the hull. Still a fair number of “fittings” to make and fit though.
Second one shows the new bits. Sidelight screens, coaling hatches, the “pipe” holding the outer end of the anchor chain and 2 of the 4 large lifting eyes. These eys are of brass but painted with Humbrol “metalcote” gunmetal and buffed to a satin shine
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on January 05, 2013, 01:51:13 PM
Hi Bryan
Do you intend to add the missing lifting points?
Re enforced jollity season - I'm a bit Bah Humbug too
Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 05, 2013, 02:33:30 PM
Hi Bryan
Do you intend to add the missing lifting points?
Re enforced jollity season - I'm a bit Bah Humbug too
Dave
The "missing" pair of lifting points are already fitted at the after end of the deck in way of the aft end of the engine casing...out of camera shot. They'll probably appear when I get the steering wheel etc fitted. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Hodgy1990 on January 05, 2013, 10:05:09 PM
wow really exceptinal work there bryan loving the barge, cant wait to see it in the flesh, keep up the good work as always bryan
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 09, 2013, 02:40:11 PM
Entering another phase with this build.
“Bits That Have Been Bothering Me”
Two in particular, the compass and the whistle. I still haven’t sussed out the compass, but I think I’ve cracked the whistle.
Being very traditional in my thinking, I always assumed that a steam whistle would be attached to the funnel. Wrong (again). On enlarging an already fuzzy old photo I found one mounted on the casing deck almost alongside the safety valve box.
This entire contraption seemed to be about 2ft tall (2” at this scale) and had an odd shaped lever sticking out of it. To my mind this was obviously attached to a lanyard ending at a handle that the coxwain could pull to blow the thing. Not so. Rigging up a “dummy” I found that any lanyard would either prevent the hatches from opening and have to pass through one of the main cowl vents. Not possible/probable.
Then the significance of the “ball” on top of the operating lever struck me. It was “Hand Operated” by the bowman when told by the coxwain. So all became “clear”.
Making it was a different thing altogether.     There are 15 components on this thing. I could have turned the entire “body” from aluminium and simply slid a bit of brass over the top part but for 1 thing, that being I’ve never been able to turn a “ball”. So I (very) carefully enlarged the stringing hole in a “pearl” from an old necklace using a pin vice rather than a proper drill. The rest of it is bits of brass tube and plasticard slid over a 1/16” brass tube. In the photos the operating levr looks a bit on the heavy side, but it is only a scale 0.75” dia. My excuse is that things painted white always look a bit “heavy”! I’m afraid my eyesight prevented me form fitting the lever linkage. A pity, really.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 12, 2013, 04:54:20 PM
In common with many of you, I’m following Brians build of “Amity” with great interest. Even though we chat about both our models on a weekly basis it’s more than interesting/educational to see his ideas put into both practice and print.
But the main thing is our two very different approaches to model making, although we do bat different ideas back and forth now and again. I’m sure he won’t mind my saying so, but it took awhile to convince him that using Perspex for his rudders was a “good idea”. I haven’t had occasion to use this stuff on the barge…but I probably will If you’ve never used Perspex (not “Lexan”) I really urge you to do so. Most of mine comes from offcuts out of a skip when tossed away by companies that use the stuff.
It’s easy to shape, drill and mill and tap. It takes paint wonderfully well. It used to be very difficult to join 2 pieces of it together, but now you can buy tubes of cement suitable for “hard plastics” (smells like ether, the original bonding agent), and superglue works well. It also bends well with the very judicious application of heat.     But back to “The Barge”.
Once I finished my version of the whistle I decided to make at least an attempt to make the compass.
This is a “boat compass” and not at all like the ships “standard” compass with its wooden binnacle. No “soft iron” spheres or Flinders Bar. Nor does a boat compass need all the small correcting magnets commonly found within a standard binnacle. So in effect it’s a simple compass rose set in gimbals and enclosed in a removable (non-removable in my case) cowl with a couple of fittings.
This cowl and the making of had been bugging me for weeks. In no way am I good enough to turn a 3 dimensional elliptical solid. The modern “conical” sort are easy…but not this old thing. But then I found a large “bead” of exactly the right size and shape in the bits’n’pieces tin. At 0.75” dia.in plan and 0.5” in height. Perfect. Filed a sloping flat for the window flap lid to fit, filed a concave hollow into a bit of plastic tube to be a snug fit against the contours of the “bead, fitted a lid and I was almost there. Obviously the window has to be at a height above the deck for the helmsman to see the compass (rarely, I expect). So a length of brass tube was fitted under the cowl. That bit (tube plus cowl) is just under 3” tall and stands on a plinth making the window just under 4” (4ft) above the deck.
Why paint it white and not have it in polished brass? Two reasons. One is that all the photos of these craft have the compass cowl and column in white, and secondly, I reckoned that more polished brass would look a bit OTT.
But before I “do” the wheel, the voice pipe needs to be at least sited. BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 29, 2013, 05:37:55 PM
The Wheel.
     This thing has been bugging me for what seems to be an age. Particularly the large main wheel. This is 1.75” in diameter and to be made of 1/8” brass tube. It proved to be beyond my capabilities. A Caledonian member of this forum (an engineer) volunteered to make it for me. The drilling of the spoke holes ( 1/16”) was easy enough, but the central boss became a real trial of fortitude. I know it should be made from solid brass bar, but as I only needed the end result to be ¼” thick I was blowed if I was going to buy a metre of it for only that amount. I eventually found a length of brass tubing (3/8”dia), turned down a length of hardwood to be a tight fit and took it from there. Once again, the hole drilling went OK, but parting it off only resulted in mangled bits of brass. For the 4th attempt I changed tack and cut through the brass tube with my small pipe cutter. This also had the unexpected advantage of really nipping the cut tube ends into the inner wood core. Then it was an “easy” matter of cutting through the wood with a razor saw and smoothing the 2 faces flat then painting the faces with “brass” paint. The curved “boss” is a real brass (possibly gold) sequin type bead out of my useful “bits’n’pieces” tin. The spokes are Araldited into the boss. The centre sort of self- centralises when the spokes are fitted. The last 2 of the 4 photos show just a rough assembly. The steering chains are yet to be fitted before final assembly and fixing to the main ER casing.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: vnkiwi on January 29, 2013, 05:59:24 PM
Beautiful piece of work, and the thinking behind it.
Well done that man.   :-))
Keep up the good work
cheers
vnkiwi
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 29, 2013, 07:58:43 PM
Beautiful piece of work, and the thinking behind it.
Well done that man.   :-))
Keep up the good work
cheers
vnkiwi
Thanks for that. I'm still not sure about enlarging the "handgrips" on the spokes. At the moment they are all about 5" long.....enough for a hairy chested matelots fist to grab. But they are only 3/4" in diameter when scaled up. I think that another overlapping tube would be better. Perhaps. BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on January 29, 2013, 08:46:07 PM
http://antiquesimagearchive.com/items/D9765561.html

I quite like the idea of a partial wooden sleeve on them.
Could that fit in with your scheme Bryan?

Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 29, 2013, 09:19:21 PM
http://antiquesimagearchive.com/items/D9765561.html (http://antiquesimagearchive.com/items/D9765561.html)

I quite like the idea of a partial wooden sleeve on them.
Could that fit in with your scheme Bryan?

Dave
Not a "sleeve" Dave, my wood is a filler inside a brass tube.
The "other" Brian has used a wooden sleeve on his winch barrels.
Too many Bryans and Brians in Tynemouth! BY. (the "Bryan").
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: vnkiwi on January 29, 2013, 09:31:39 PM
Hi Bryan,
maybe I'm miss reading here, but I think what Dave is trying to say, is that the hand grips on the extended spokes, could you put a "wood sleeve" over them, instead of an added brass sleeve, to thicken them up.
(http://antiquesimagearchive.com/item_images/medium/48/44/38-01.jpg)
 
like in this picture
cheers
vnkiwi
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on January 29, 2013, 09:40:07 PM
 :-)) yes that was what I meant  :embarrassed: I'm not too good at explanations really.

Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 30, 2013, 10:29:16 AM
Oops. Sorry Dave. My fault. I should have thought a bit more before replying.
I've been on many ships that had brass wheels with wood hand grips, but all the photos I have that show a bargs wheel indicate brass handgrips that just seem to be extended spokes. But plenty of time to consider my options. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 30, 2013, 04:12:31 PM
This has to be the worst couple of mistake making weeks of the entire build. I was going to complete the 2 flagstaffs, but changed my mind and decided to rig the funnel. Sounds simple? Not on your life! This segment of the build should really be included in the topic “What not to do when building a model”.
First of all I bimbled along to the model shop and bought the smallest rigging shackles that “rbmodel” make, plus the threaded mounting brackets. Just how they produce these superbly made things for 35p each and 22p for the mounts (at 22p) beats me. The shackles are a little oversize, but when “needs must” beggars can’t be choosers. They’re also a bit on the bright side which looks a bit “bling”…but fine when painted matte black. It also took me at least 20 minutes (each) to fit the screwed pins into the shackles. No problem for the eagle-eyed, but a pain in the tripes for me.
       Then I made up some lengths of 11 stranded (5 amp fuse wire) for the guys. This has worked well for me in the past, but that was always for longer lengths of “standing” rigging on large models. Didn’t work this time because I only wanted 5” lengths, so any little “kink” was impossible to pull straight. OK, let’s try “rope” disguised as metal. When painted with “steel” Humbrol “Metalcote” and burnished I had my result. So far, so good. Then came the making of the “spliced eyes”. Being a tad over-jubilant, I simply formed an eye and wound the join with small twine. Wrong. The “splices” look crude and too heavy. What I should have done was to fray the end of the “rope” and using a bit of superglue, simply twist the 2 parts together making a better looking job of it. But I didn’t, and will now live with it. It probably would have been wiser to use a thinner material for the “splice” winding.
But at the moment I’m not going to shed any tears as I have a sneaky feeling that the funnel, although light in weight may affect stability when on the water. Height above CG etc. If that proves to be the case then I’ll have to investigate the possibility of making a duplicate in styrene/ABS. In truth, this possibility is the main reason I haven’t had the main vents plated. If I do need a “plastic” funnel, then I may as well get all 3 items done together.
Another (possible) bone of contention could be the use of “rope” instead of the more common bottlescrews. I maintain…backed up by some photos….that as the funnel needed to be regularly unshipped, this method would be quicker, easier and less “messy” than fiddling around with the bottlescrews. Pays your money and make a choice really.
Total cost now up to £740.  Just approaching the 10 month mark in this build from its conception.
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: kiwimodeller on January 31, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
Bryan, I cannot see you having a stability problem. My F/G hulled version has a large steam engine and a big boiler with a copper funnell attached to it. I have done some initial flotation tests and added 0.75kg of lead shot in the bottom of the hull. After her first sailing test recently I am going to be adding more ballast to bring her right down to the waterline so I am sure you will have to add enough weight in the bottom of the hull to more than compensate for the funnel. When finished I intend to have a painted stainless steel dummy funnel over the outside of the copper one so if you have trouble with stability I will be in deep you know what! Cheers, Ian
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on January 31, 2013, 04:28:32 PM
Ian.
Thank you for your response re. my stability fears. (the boats,not mine,you understand). Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that your model is of the transom stern version. Mine is the odd-ball “spoon stern” type. The hull of the transom stern version is a lot “fuller” than mine.      From a buoyancy point of view, on mine the lines are so fine that I can basically ignore anything positive that the for’d 10” and the after 16” provide. A total of 26” out of an overall length of 51”. Which is as near as dammit to 50% of the boats length. Hence my concerns. Any more suggestions? All are more than welcome!. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: kiwimodeller on February 01, 2013, 09:33:06 AM
Sorry Bryan, I had not considered what a difference the counter stern and finer lines of the Admirals barge version might make but the plans I have from Model Shipwright for your version still show that hull with a steam engine and boiler in it so therefore it must have been considered that it had adequate buoyancy. If you are building a reasonably light version then surely you will need some ballast which, if mounted low in the hull, will counteract the funnell? Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on February 01, 2013, 10:37:02 AM
OK Alan. We'll  just have to wait and see, eh?
Regards. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on February 02, 2013, 12:27:14 PM
Well the time has finally arrived when I must transfer the final building to the “workshop” to get on with such mundane stuff as making the prop-shaft supports, the rudder, fitting the R/C gear and other odds and ends to make the thing work, hopefully.
Just a few things to do on the upperworks. Rig the cabin lighting (I intend using the lifebuoy on the cabin roof as the on/off switch).  Get Mrs.Y to make up the cabin curtains, fit the voice pipe and get the vents plated.
Unless I can dream up anything else to do! But Spring is on its way so the workshop may soon be habitable again.
I’ll leave “outdoor” photos until I get the vents done, so these 3 photos may well be the last for awhile.
The 1st one is the steering pedestal fixed and the internal chains fitted.
2nd is a general view of the middle bit minus the vents.
3rd is my “quirk”…the addition of the RFA emblem on the bows. As I’ve already said, I reckon that in this day and age the RFA Commodore deserves the status of a “Barge”. If a Dockyard Admiral can have one, then so can he. I might even put an RFA ensign on the back end. That’ll infuriate the purists, but sod’em.
This build has been so different to my more “usual” work that it’s been a bit of everything for me. Frustration, occasional anger, much learning and head scratching (especially in the early days of the cabin and casing). It also gave me its fair share of fun, enjoyment and satisfaction. The ARMD in my right eye certainly hasn’t helped!So, until the next time…..not to long I hope, I hope I’ve managed to entertain you at least a little.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: chipchase on February 02, 2013, 12:42:43 PM
 First class Bryan, :-)) looking forward to seeing her on the water.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on February 02, 2013, 12:48:00 PM
I hope I’ve managed to entertain you at least a little.
It's been a lovely read Bryan - really enjoyed it all so far.

Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Jerry C on February 02, 2013, 01:15:32 PM
So real. The lads are going to need Brasso on draught for that funnel!
Jerry.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: pugwash on February 02, 2013, 01:39:16 PM
smashing job Bryan - let me know when she is goint out on sea trials
Geoff
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Arrow5 on February 02, 2013, 02:02:05 PM
Super job.   For your bow badge try and find the company that makes the enamel lapel badges. I dont know if they still do them. maybe they would advertise in Navy News ( if that is still going)    I`ve got a picture somewhere, they would be about the right size. about 1.5 cm
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: grendel on February 02, 2013, 03:46:59 PM
I carved a broads cruiser bow badge from pewter, I used a fairly modern half pint tankard obtained for pennies at a boot fair.
Grendel
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on February 02, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
Do I gather from the previous 2 posts that the crest "could be better"?
I'm sure it could, but remember that your'e looking at a photo that had to be re-sized (and therefore coarser) to fit the constraints of the allowed sizes. In "real life" the crests look a lot better and more readable. Also, I couldn't really justify the outlay in getting only 2 "one-offs" made. I can't imagine anyone other than me and the RFA Commodore wanting one! And I bet he's got his own version anyway. Thanks for the thought though. BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Netleyned on February 02, 2013, 04:35:46 PM
Was there an RFA when the steam picket/barges were plying the harbours?
Love the build Bryan and yes the Commodore deserves  flags and crests.

Ned
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on February 02, 2013, 05:28:13 PM
Just popped back and looked again at those Dolphins - they really do make a big impression  O0

Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Arrow5 on February 02, 2013, 06:04:06 PM
Oh yes a crest in metal to match the dolphins.  I found the basis for you to add the RFA motif your self if they don't have it  already.   have a look at www.mycollectors.co.uk/content/lapel-Badges/naval-ships-badges.aspx  Only a couple of quid plus postage.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on February 02, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
Dear Ned, and all others on this forum….
A very much potted history of the RFA.
It goes back way into the mists of time when the RN was busy “Ruling the Waves” all over the globe. Re-supplying ships of the RN more often than not found themselves in parts of the world where supplies were either non-existent or sparse, at best. The RN (at the Governments behest) was constantly engaged in Blockading places, and sometimes that meant years of more or less just sitting there. Privation must have been terrible. But then the Gov’t had the brainwave of chartering Merchant ships to load up with supplies and sail off to find the “Fleets”. These ships were known as the “Pinks”. They rapidly became notorious for their pilfering, cheating and other “bad behaviour”. So another way had to be found.
A more “Official” one.
Eventually the “Fleet Auxiliary” was formed. Merchant manned, but owned by the Crown. Strict rules and all that.
That “Service” was so successful that it was awarded the title of “Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service” in 1915.
But even that wasn’t a particularly good solution. All these ships trotting around the world to be basically Ocean going harbour supply ships. Not much good for ships at sea.
Methods were developed to supply coal to RN ships at sea. Using baskets (literally) of coal transferred to the warship by wire…the warship towing the supplying ship. Purgatory.
But then came the Oil burners. Floating pipe-lines were developed, and well into WW2 the RN and the RFA relied upon a modified method of “stern refuelling”.
This changed radically when captured German ships were found to have the flexible “rubber” hoses to allow abeam refuelling. We latched on to that…followed by our American cousins. Technicalities and progress apart, the system hasn’t changed much.
But to answer Neds main question, was there an RFA around when steam picket boats were being used. Yes, of course it was.
The modern RFA has evolved into something quite unique in the present world. It remains Civilian Manned”. Which means that the crews are not subject to RN discipline (can’t be executed for calling the Captain a “pleb”), except in wartime when just about everyone comes under some sort of universal “law”.
The RFA personnel also get a 100% salary increase when serving in a “War Zone” (much to the chagrin of both civil and service people). But I imagine that may well change.
From being treated as “Second Class”, the RFA is now more a civilian manned warship. Guns and so on operated by civilians. Aircraft (not civilian manned!).
God knows how many aircraft the more modern RFAs can operate, but even the old “Rosalie(Grange) and Austin regularly had 5 Sea Kings aboard and operating. Not bad for a “Merch” is it? BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 15, 2013, 12:51:11 PM
The barge continues......
So. The “weather” has become (slightly) better. I still have the use of my limbs after so long in virtual hibernation and some of lifes “little problems” have, at the least, stabilised. Work on the Barge has been “sporadic” at best,recently. But an update is now due.
Making and fitting the rudder assembly proved to be easier than I’d imagined. The main cause of concern being just where to put it. I wanted it to be as close as possible to the propeller, but still with enough clearance for the tiller arms not to foul up against the deep cabin casing that projects downwards into the hull so that it touches the inner surface of the hull. Then I found that due to the huge “upsweep” of the back end of the hull I had no (or precious little) space for a servo. That little brain-teaser has been resolved but I’ll leave it for a future post.
Then I realised that I was fed up to the teeth heaving the model around on the long and heavy cradle I’d been using. There was just no way I was going to open this cumbersome thing to the gaze of “others”…..particularly other members of TMBC who, by definition, are not at all reticent with criticisms. That was addressed and solved by using a short section of a cradle I built years ago to house C/S “Recorder”. I think it suits the Barge. I have still to decide on the descriptive name plate (material and wording). But I’ll get to it eventually. And I still fret a little about the wheel handgrips.
     But the main “time consumers” have been the 2 large cowl vents and the voice pipe. The vents have a tale all on their own, so I’ll just post a couple of general views of the barge as an externally complete model and “do” the vents separately.
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 15, 2013, 01:36:54 PM
Part 2.
They (the vents) were originally made using the same plugs as I made and described for the ferry “Northumbrian”. The ferry being built at 1:24 scale and the barge at 1:12, serendipidy had it that at 1:12 they were perfect for the barge. So these were vac-formed. I anticipated being able to have them brass plated…but that was to be not possible according to the various plating companies I approached. I trudged down many blind alleys over many weeks. I even looked into the possibility of using brass powder impregnated into resin (as advertised by a company based in South Shields), but the resulting end-product didn’t look anywhere “solid” enough….and simply adding more and more brass powder simply weakened the resin. In a mild state of despair I went off to confer with the jeweller who made the 2 brass dolphins. He came to the rescue by volunteering to cast them in brass. Although it was streets away from his more usual jobs The 2 part flexible mould he came up with and the resulting wax casting are a work of art in their own right. But there it had to stay for a week as his “proper job” (ie the one that brings in the money) intervened. When I returned one vent had been cast and cooled down and the second one was just about to be removed from the kiln. Then began one of the most interesting “tuition” periods of my life. The “raw” casting can in no way be described as a “pretty thing”. But 5 minutes on 2 sorts of polishing machines produced the articles you see in the attached photo. But he insists on calling them prototypes and wants to have them both returned for melting down and re-casting/polishing etc to get to a standard he’ll be happy with. One of them has a smallish hole in it that gave him an excuse to show me how his laser welding machine works (all £26,000 of it). If only it was available to us mere mortals!
Although each vent is 2.5” tall and 2” across the cowl he was spot on when he guessed each cast unit would weigh in at 40 grammes.
Apart from all sorts of other high-tech stuff he also has a rather large (to my eyes) 3D printer that I may well have reason for him to use on my behalf.
Until I had the vents cast it was pointless doing a stability and balancing test in the water. As I’ve explained, the shape of the hull means that only the centre part of the hull will provide any meaningful buoyancy….so there’s a real possibility that I may have to increase the draught by up to an inch. If, repeat “if” that doesn’t work then Plan B comes into operation.
Thatb basically, is to use the original plastic vents and a resin funnel. Hence the use of the 3D printer. The plastic/resin units would be used when the boat is sailing, and the brass units used when viewed as a static model. Not ideal, I agree, but when needs must etc…….
Let’s just hope that judicious balancing/weight distribution plus the draught increase will make Plan B unnecessary . If that’s the case, then “all” I have to do is repaint the affected bit of the hull and fit the thin red stripe between the blue and the white.
And that’s about it until the afloat testing is done followed by the maiden voyage
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: nemesis on April 15, 2013, 09:31:38 PM
Hi Bryan, You weigh the wax pattern and multiply it by 32. This is doubled to allow for sprues and the button. This is the system I used when I was doing gold and silver casting at work.
                       Nemesis
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Capt Podge on April 15, 2013, 09:33:44 PM
Very impressive Bryan - looking forward to seeing her "in the flesh", so to speak.
 
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 21, 2013, 06:39:24 PM
A photo...
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 21, 2013, 06:42:40 PM
Sorry if that was ass-backwards...but the "server" wouldn't accept bothe picture and prose.
A bit ironic that just when you wish to take a photo of something shiny, the sun comes out in all its glory. So back indoors.
This pic is of the 2 now completed brass cowl ventilators. It’ll be obvious which are the brass ones and which are my 2 original vac-formed ABS ones.
I polished the 2 ABS ones until my arm almost dropped off…..but there really isn’t any comparison between brass paint and the real thing.
    I now have only one question to ask on this subject.
What is the most effective “coating” I can use on them to prevent tarnishing.
The coating that’s been applied by the manufacturer of stuff like door handles and house numbers seems to work well (for a few years, at least). Any ideas on what it might be, as I have no desire whatsoever to polish the things every week or so!
     Now for the stability tests and get this thing on the water.
Started this project on March 8th 2012. Many “tears”, frustration, worrying, scratching of head, getting advice and much help from both fellow modellers and an “interested” jeweller. It all “comes together” in the end. BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: raflaunches on April 21, 2013, 06:47:43 PM
All I can say, Bryan, is


FANTASTIC!


Certainly worthy of entry into the masterclass section on the forum! I only wish I could make my models to that standard, maybe one day... :-))
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Jerry C on April 21, 2013, 07:17:17 PM
I found this Brian. I believe he's probably taking about nitrocellulose lacquer. If anyone knows what is used on old scientific instruments such as my Fortin Standard barometer I'd be very interested. I also think the baking bit is important. The paint I used on my boiler and engine is really hard and tough. I used to paint Amal GP carburettors with the genuine original paint. I baked them in the oven at 140°C for 20 minutes and they went like glass and were totally proof against gasoline.


Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: Re-lacquering Costs   
glock wrote:
...if anyone has had DIY experience, please do share...

DIY lacquering is not a good idea.
Using spray or paint lacquer for tiny touch-ups can work in some situations (for as long as it lasts), however, lacquering an entire instrument is a completely different story all together.
In order to get to a perfect and long lasting result you at least need to be able to:

-Get rid of the tiniest dents and imperfections of the instrument.
-Buff instrument without over doing and without leaving/causing multiple micro scratches.
-Clean and de-grease instrument.
-Evenly apply a thin layer (or two very thin layers) of lacquer without capturing any air or dust.
-Bake lacquer on instrument with moderate heat.

Every step involved in proper lacquering is A LOT harder than it may seem, also because of safety- and environmental regulations. Most repair shops (and also quite some builders) send their stuff to specialists when it comes to finishing instruments; there's a good reason for this...

Just my opinion, but to do a less than mint DIY job will cause more frustration than pride. It might seriously affect the (re-sale) value of your instrument and when applied too thick, the lacquer can kill an instrument's sound.

MvW.


Jerry.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Stavros on April 21, 2013, 08:53:08 PM
Brian simply pop down to Halfords and get some car laquer that will protect it from tarnishing for many a year to come
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 21, 2013, 10:13:55 PM
JerryC....Thanks for that. I wish I could get my head around it.....I'll try again tomorrow.
Stavros...I understand what you are getting at. But: I've tried the car lacquer on polished brass and although it looks great for a couple of months it doesn't seem to have the long life that the brass instruments have that Jerry has referred to.
I'd love to have a full size Fortin Barometer but really couldn't afford one.
In my younger days I used to polish my sextant until it gleamed at me....until an "old salt" told me that I was actually taking years off its accurate working life. So I've been a bit wary about that ever since.
I took the "Barge" down to the pond this morning for its first "public" showing. The reactions and comments were most gratifying....even those from the professional "carpers" that every club must have (if only to bring ones ego down a notch or two).
However, the condition the boat is now in will have to remain for awhile due to a domestic issue that will probably take up a lot of my time. So I shall continue this build saga as and when I can for the next few months.
I must thank all of you who have followed my travails over the last 14 months....but I'm not going away(!). Thanks again. Bryan Y..
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: pugwash on April 22, 2013, 12:16:29 AM
She really looks nice Bryan - sorry I couldn't get down to see her this morning.
In regard to protecting the brass you could always do what we did to the front of the 10 inch
signal lamps and that was to get them really well polished up and then give them just a light
coating of vaseline which can be renewed every so often. It was good enough to keep
out the salt spray.
Geoff
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: derekwarner on April 22, 2013, 03:08:16 AM
Bryan.......VHT, Dupli-Color and Rustolium list a "high temperature" clear gloss spray enamel...although I have not used the HT gloss personally
I have used the VHT gloss black  "high temperature" product & yes baked it for one hour @ ~~~~ 93 degrees C to improve hardness & chemical resistance & it works
Here is an image of brass band on my gas tank ... with polish set & after the polish is removed.......clearly the HT gloss black is not degraded by the polish, and similarly the Cabot's standard satin polyurethane is still OK after 2 years of occasional  :o  polishing................Derek

 
 
 
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Circlip on April 22, 2013, 09:40:21 AM
You could follow Gerald Wingroves' lead and have the Brass bits Gold plated.
 
  Regards  Ian.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 22, 2013, 11:37:14 AM
You could follow Gerald Wingroves' lead and have the Brass bits Gold plated.
 
  Regards  Ian.
Funnily enough I've discussed the notion of gold plating the vents and the funnel. It's always a possibility I suppose. My only fear is that gold plating would be a bit OTT and finish up looking like a football players girlfriend!
But as this barge will in all probability be my final effort at building a complete model I'd rather like it to be one of my better efforts. This decision has been forced upon me by the slow but inexorable advance of the ARMD in my right eye that really makes close-up work more than simply difficult.
However. I think (fingers crossed) that I should be able to manage the proper repair to the so-called "repairs" poor old "Hunan" suffered at the hands of a real cowboy during its 11 year voyage away from its home port. Wish me luck!. Bryan.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on April 24, 2013, 01:23:58 PM
Decided to do a wee experiment. Thinking of what Stavros said….went along to Halfords and got an aerosol of Metallic Gold and another of clear lacquer. I’ll use these on the original ABS vents and see how they turn out….particularly the lacquer. Then I’ll see if I’ve got a bit of brass to polish up and try the lacquer on that.
Just been having a bit of a browse to see if I’ve missed anything…..and I have.
The last mention of the cost of the build was a long time ago. Not to worry…got it written down somewhere…….
I left you at £740.
Plus…………80  ( Dolphins and Brass Vents)
                        40  (  Paint and “sundries”). Running total as up to 24th April 2013 is now ££860.
So that’s the thick end of £15 a week over the length of the build. Not too bad really.Still have to buy batteries and a receiver though.So I guess I’m looking at around £900 in total.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Norseman on April 27, 2013, 08:44:01 PM
It' been an enjoyable build thread to follow Bryan and having you tot up all your costs has been an education too.

Dave
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Pondweed on April 29, 2013, 01:40:31 PM

     A few other things struck me. These Steam Picket boats tended to live on board a ship. But the plans show no lifting arrangements for the 15 ton weight.
   
Navigation lights. A bit of a moot point here. I’ve got photos of these barges fitted with and without the screens. But just to add a bit of colour, I’ve fitted them. No lamps are or will be fitted. Reason? What’s the point of fitting unlit oil lamps during daylight?   

Brian
great model. Topmost image shows the lifting points within the hull. They're accessed through scuttles. While not an Admirals barge, the same principle may have been used.



(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2521/steampinnace.jpg)



Re: the Navigation lights: there's 4 lugs on the fore end of the cabin by the funnel: the nav lights (on a pole-like affair) fitted into them.

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2447/020large.jpg)




The below image show the Royal barge. The tiller is visible on it and they've used a rope or cable, not a chain. But there's was myriad differences in these craft. Just food for thought for you.


(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5743/fisherboardingroyalyach.jpg)


I'd be interested in how they ran the chain/cable under the deck to the tiller in real life? Other than in the above image, I can't find any images of a visible tiller arm or the means of moving it. Of coure, the rudder on the above is fixed to the transom.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on May 01, 2013, 04:07:09 PM
A 3 part reply here…..
Firstly to “Norseman”: thanks for your kind comments.
Secondly to “Pondweed”.
     Although I’m sure you’re correct regarding the lifting arrangements, I still don’t think that all picket boats had the same arrangements. Obviously, the idea of lifting a 15 ton boat using only ring bolts fastened through the deck is a non-starter. But it would be equally feasible to have the ring bolts as an extension of a below deck strong-back system terminating at or near to the keelson. Pays yer money and takes yer choice. Both systems would work.
     Navigation lights…..particularly the sidelights.
Stapletons book has this cutaway drawing….albeit an armed transom stern version….and bigger and heavier than mine. Photos do, indeed, show the (portable) sidelight screens on stalks. But again, I’ve seen photos with the screens fitted right at the after end of the E/R casing and points between the 2. So I don’t think that there was any real consistency as to their positioning. One’s as good as ‘tother really.
    The same goes for the steering arrangements. My plans distinctly show a chain system running outboard of the spurnwater and then to a tiller arm under the stern gratings. The top of this tiller arm is accessible through the gratings so that a local hand tiller can be fitted. (I forgot to fit that little detail!). Your photo is a bit confusing. The sailor is actually holding a boathook while Fisher disembarks…at least I think so. I can’t make out the tiller layout, but it seems to have a crank shape to it.
But again, as you say, it’s transom stern version with the rudder hung on the transom…my version is of the more rare “spoon stern” boat where the rudder is fitted well forward of the actual stern.
     All I can really say isthanks for your interest and taking the time to send your post.
Part 3.
     The various brass castings on this model were done by Andrew Dytham at
www.dythamesqjewellers.co.uk (http://www.dythamesqjewellers.co.uk/)  or Tel. 0191 253 1043.He will make the moulds and cast in brass, silver or gold to requirements. Especially “difficult” bits as he enjoys doing “odd-ball” stuff! BY.
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Pondweed on May 02, 2013, 12:08:48 PM
Brian
it was really just 'for your information', some 'food for thought'. I saw the query about lifting points and thought the principle in the drawing, or something like it, may 'put some wind in your sail' or just broaden the knowledge base. IIRC, it's from a old warship-building book.

My 3 images are what I know as 'steam picket boats' with the squate transom stern, all the Admirals barges I see have the rounded stern. While they're they're generally thesame type of boats, there's a lot of little differences in them. But the really interesting thing about that 'Royal Barge' he's exiting from is the marquetry? visible. If it was a lesser vesel, I'd have said it was a 'lino' mat. I thought that image was worth showing just for that.

During your research into the type, you don't happen to know if these boats had any alternative war uses? Say like the Dardanelles when the picket boats towed open boats full of troops into the beach. Did they count the Adms barge in with the other steam boats as a work boat?
Title: Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
Post by: Bryan Young on May 03, 2013, 11:19:13 AM
"Pondweed".......PM sent. BY.