Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: daveh on April 08, 2012, 10:13:47 PM

Title: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 08, 2012, 10:13:47 PM
Hi all
Can anyone help can you buy large scale kits of a square rigger ship of the line ?if so what companies are there, or do you all build them from plans from scratch
many thanks
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: triumphjon on April 08, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
if you contact fratton models in portsmouth , allan may be in a position to assist you .
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: subs1 on April 09, 2012, 12:03:19 AM
Ummm I think he's talking about LARGE scale square riggers , not the toys about 4ft long hehe .
Try http://www.modelsailingships.com/
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 09, 2012, 09:33:01 AM
hi all
yes more along those lines that I am looking for are there more conpanies that make that type of model and size?
many thanks
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: offshore1987 on April 09, 2012, 02:53:01 PM
There use to be a place online that use to make larger sized models and i think they use to be rtr, havnt seen it online for ages now though

From what i remember they use to sell a large scale yacht, which was blue in colour and more like a pleasure yacht. Plus a large square rigger thing, when i say large they use to be like 2/3 meters, and they use to sale other large things all built in house, plus the normal bits n bobs

Anyone remember the site?

Daniel
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 09, 2012, 05:04:39 PM
Hi all
I have seen SC&H website stunning models and a lot of money too does anyone know do they hold there value after you have bought one .I know perhaps thats not what you should ask even before you have bought one but it would be nice to know when your talking of that sort of money.
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: tony23 on April 09, 2012, 06:31:20 PM
There was a square rigger for sale on this site a while back but I'm not sure if he sold it as it was about 2500 if I remember correctly it was one of SC&H models. I was only looking on there site this afternoon and wondering  O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 09, 2012, 08:03:45 PM
Hi all
Thanks for all the replys are there any more companies who make these large scale ships anyone in the uk?
if you dont buy a kit and decide to scratch build, plans ,any good place to buy them, and if you scratch build can you buy any of the detail parts off the shelf so to speak
again many thanks for all your input
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: triumphjon on April 09, 2012, 08:25:00 PM
i would strongly advise you talk to allan at fratton models in portsmouth ( 02392 827117 ) hes involved with the local model boat club portsmouth model display team ,who operate this type of craft regularily , i beleive they have a mould or two for producing the hulls ! could be more cost effective than importing from the states ? jon
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unicorn on April 09, 2012, 09:28:26 PM
 :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
   
           Hi-- a couple of photo`s  of our Square Riggers having a Battle on the Portsmouth Dockyard Mast Pond just to give you an idea what can be
  built for a modest outlay, the largest hull length is in the region of 4 ft and when fully rigged and ballested takes 2  to put her on the pond, the on-board
  Fire is part of our display  and should not be attempted   ok2 ok2 ok2 ok2 ok2 unless     ??????????

                                              rgds unicorn
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: tony23 on April 10, 2012, 12:09:37 AM
Wow, I want one where do I get some more information  :-)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: kraftykid on April 10, 2012, 02:59:15 AM
phone/talk to Alan or  Helen as our club (pmbdt) has a mold witch im building a galleon from at the moment but, im not sure if the club would sell to anyone out the club and if i say something that's remotely  wrong i will get  a hit on the nose  <:( lol  %%  so talk to Alan
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: kraftykid on April 10, 2012, 03:01:26 AM
also the only mold we have at the moment is  only 3 ish feet possibly 4 haven't measured mine for a while there is a post on here rise of the phoenix and the boat from that was the plug for the mold
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: triumphjon on April 10, 2012, 07:44:40 AM
thank you unicorn , although i know the boats you use , ive got no photos that i could upload  !
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: kraftykid on April 10, 2012, 11:12:23 AM
oh the top pic shows the phoenix bottom left (the smaller 2) though measured  myn today morelike 3 nearly  and the big ones are 5 ish i think  at a  guess ps unicorn who are you
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: offshore1987 on April 10, 2012, 12:28:30 PM
Would it not be better to say how much you have to spend?

Dont get all the fus with pyros these days, anyone can go out and buy remote units, we are selfs use them for airsoft. 10 years ago they use to be cool because it was hard to get hold of anything like that, but these days its like buying sweets

Daniel
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unicorn on April 10, 2012, 05:30:26 PM
  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

           I must confess  there`s Pyrotechnics and then there`s Pyrotechnic`s  --  but I must bow to your superior knowledge on buying " sweets ".

           As all of our square Riggers are scratch built the costs are correlative to one`s building abilities and therefore could start (not including radio
           equipment or pyrotechnic`s) as low as 100.

                                                                   rgds   unicorn
                                                                                             
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: JerryTodd on April 11, 2012, 02:31:16 PM
Aside from SC&H, there are no kits.  Plans for various vessels can be had from various places - I think there's a thread in this forum listing a couple of sources.  The National Maritime Museum can supply you with copies of original draughts, build orders, materials lists, etc for nearly any British vessel you can come up with - but you will pay dearly for them.

Building from scratch is not more difficult, it's just like building from a kit except you have to make all the parts the kit supplies pre-cut.  It's generally cheaper.  As mentioned, the plans can be steep, and fancy materials can get expensive; but I don't have more than $400 invested in Constellation including radio equipment.  The cost of scratch building can also be spread out over time - whereas a kit you have to pay for it all up front. (usually)

You might take a look HERE (http://www.cocatrez.net/Water/RC_SquareRiggers/RC_SquareRiggers.html) for a little inspiration.

Here are three large models I have in the works:

USS Constellation 1:36 scale.  Sloop of war built 1854 and still exists at Baltimore Maryland USA.  Plans from US National Archives.
(http://s14.postimage.org/54adnvjjh/video01.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/54adnvjjh/)  (http://s14.postimage.org/3qiqskka5/con2011jul10q.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3qiqskka5/)  (http://s14.postimage.org/jda05xy25/con2011jul10t01.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jda05xy25/)

HMS Macedonian 1:36 scale (a build log in this forum (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34451.0))  Lively class frigate built in 1810 at Woolrich.  Plans from Smithsonian Institution.
(http://s14.postimage.org/opyuk2lyl/mac20120410b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/opyuk2lyl/)

Pride of Baltimore 1:20 scale Baltimore Clipper tops'l schooner replica as she appeared when I sailed her in 1981.  Plans from designer Tom Gilmer back in 1982.
(http://s14.postimage.org/akt1i9cx9/pri20120410h.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/akt1i9cx9/)  (http://s14.postimage.org/nq8jod6st/pri20120410l.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/nq8jod6st/)

My site details their construction (http://todd.mainecav.org/model/)

Come on in - the water's fine.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 11, 2012, 07:35:04 PM
Hi all, Thankyou all for your advice and help in this post. Please keep any advice and ideas coming it is all very helpfull and great to see what your all building
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: rmaddock on April 11, 2012, 07:40:04 PM
Pride of Baltimore 1:20 scale Baltimore Clipper tops'l schooner replica as she appeared when I sailed her in 1981.  Plans from designer Tom Gilmer back in 1982.
(http://s14.postimage.org/akt1i9cx9/pri20120410h.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/akt1i9cx9/)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with cardboard cut-out men manning his ongoing builds!  {-)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: JerryTodd on April 12, 2012, 04:17:00 PM
I may have gotten the idea from you, but I wish it were as easy to make 3D figures!

I actually drew a little guy to put in the pictures and then thought, why not ME, since it's a boat I worked on.
(http://s18.postimage.org/x3q4pb9v9/pri20120330a.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x3q4pb9v9/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 13, 2012, 06:36:02 PM
Hi all
It might be a stupid question but do you ever put motors on the ships just in case the wind falls away to nothing?
dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: JerryTodd on April 14, 2012, 01:57:35 PM
Several do; some internally, some externally.

The real Pride actually had an engine, as did Gazela so they'll each get one.

Constellation and Macedonian did not.  Their ballast is in a PVC pipe and I'm thinking of gluing on an extension with a motor in it.

Constellation's battery died on her first sail (turned out it went bad and won't charge) and I had to swim after her.  Having a motor wouldn't have made a difference as the radio ran on the dead battery.  What I learned was; I should have taken my float vest - would have made swimming easier, and build a pram to be a chase boat.  I sail in saltwater creeks on the Chesapeake Bay - relatively open water compared to a pond - hence my leaning towards larger models.

Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: rmaddock on April 14, 2012, 02:10:27 PM
Hi all
It might be a stupid question but do you ever put motors on the ships just in case the wind falls away to nothing?
dave

Some built in a small water jet system. This could supply some motive power but can also be used to increase the water flow over the rudder, thus improving the handling. It has the advantage of not requiring a non-scale prop to show.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on April 14, 2012, 02:22:29 PM

(http://s7.postimage.org/epn1ih5if/IMG_5718.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/epn1ih5if/)
My HMS Dolphin is fitted with a 12v blower motor as main drive, plus two 12v marine bilge pumps for bow thrusters. The model was fashioned after the Grand Turk, used to play HMS Indefatigable in the first four Hornblower episodes. She has bow thrusters therefore HMS Dolphin is historically accurate with her bow thrusters. Also very useful when bringing your guns to bear on the French!!
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 18, 2012, 06:54:15 PM
Hi all
Great looking ships in the photos ,what size  planking do you all use and what wood do you use hard or soft wood?
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: JerryTodd on April 19, 2012, 01:25:18 PM
I use "One by" "shelving board" which is white pine that's nominally 3/4 inch thick.  I rip off a little over 1/8 inch off the side on a table saw fitted with a 7 inch circular saw blade (to get a narrower kerf and less waste).  I then rip these into thirds or in half on a bandsaw.  

If you look at my sites, Macedonian is probably the best example, you'll see I use cheap plywood to make forms and tape the edges so the planking won't get glued to them.  The planks are glued to each other and tacked to the forms.  When the planking is completed, it's painted with thinned glue and any gaps are filled with glue thickened with sawdust.  It's all sanded fair and I then skim coat it with water putty and sanded to fill and fair it further.  Eventually it's glassed on the outside, usually with 3 or 4 oz cloth and polyester resin.  The inside is painted with resin when the forms are removed.

The hulls are basically "strip planked" - a method of making a shell.

The number of forms needed depends on the shape of the hull and what the plans give you.  Macedonian is a frigate with full bows, pronounced tumblehome and a lot of interesting shape, including a few hard bends.  I used 15 forms to maintain her shape better.
 (http://s10.postimage.org/4xfi1zs11/mac20111119h.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4xfi1zs11/)

Pride, on the other hand is a saucer with a skeg, yet she still had 11 forms in her.  
 (http://s10.postimage.org/58wyer8h1/pri20101119b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/58wyer8h1/)

Constellation started life with only 13 forms, despite being the longest hull.  She's nearly straight through her middle that it didn't require a lot of forms.
(http://s16.postimage.org/ej7eys94h/plug03.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ej7eys94h/)

Gazela is a long narrow hull and will be built on 10 forms.
(http://s10.postimage.org/uudrscl2d/gazela_model.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/uudrscl2d/)

I use the same basic method to built ship's boats.
(http://s10.postimage.org/8ehk4yr39/con20120207g.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/8ehk4yr39/)

Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 19, 2012, 08:38:36 PM
Hi Jerry
Thankyou for the information very interesting your models are a fine example of a master builder.
(http://s15.postimage.org/5vmy9tj93/cutout_001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5vmy9tj93/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/ictsjjkqz/cutout_001.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ictsjjkqz/)
Just for fun so to speak I bought a set of plans scaled them up and cut out  one form (frame)out of 12mm ply board so far have not spent a lot of money and its interesting to get your head around what it will take ot construct one of these fine ships.
Working with wood and having the tools is the easy bit for me as I am a carpenter and joiner with my own  small workshop.
If anything it will be a practice run to find out all the pit falls.And if all else fells I have a good would burner. If you dont try you will never know (always welcome any advice on building these models )many thanks
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: dreadnought72 on April 19, 2012, 08:57:51 PM
Looks good!  O0

Personally, I'd rather build big if I can. The woodwork's easier to get (my) fat fingers around, there's loads of internal room, and the sailing characteristics are - they say! - always better.

If you can handle the transport side of things, I'd say "go for it".  :-))

Andy
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 21, 2012, 07:16:13 PM
Hi All


(http://s16.postimage.org/ghe67uybl/cutout_005.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ghe67uybl/)


(http://s18.postimage.org/ok42ukrsl/cutout_006.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ok42ukrsl/)


(http://s7.postimage.org/j5agxa1fr/cutout_007.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/j5agxa1fr/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 21, 2012, 07:19:41 PM

(http://s10.postimage.org/wbi872y8l/cutout_008.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wbi872y8l/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/yc4enmqav/cutout_009.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yc4enmqav/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/t3fuwlidp/cutout_010.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/t3fuwlidp/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/fopgepw8r/cutout_011.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fopgepw8r/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/u0kecd8rr/cutout_012.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/u0kecd8rr/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 21, 2012, 07:23:08 PM

(http://s11.postimage.org/g7g2puwnz/cutout_013.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/g7g2puwnz/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/kuqhvib7l/cutout_014.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/kuqhvib7l/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/hfbnk7r83/cutout_015.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hfbnk7r83/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/v02fjc70z/cutout_016.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v02fjc70z/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/qurixf98z/cutout_017.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qurixf98z/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 21, 2012, 07:33:31 PM

(http://s18.postimage.org/3nmjxvvsl/cutout_018.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3nmjxvvsl/)

Had a day free today to cut more forms (frames) out five more to go ,at the mo just going by the plans I think I will cut more of the core in the centre out  when all are done.I can use oak or pine or mahagony for the planking why this is because have a lot of offcuts in the workshop of these timbers. can I ask what do you all think of using one of these timbers for the planking or would you use a different timber.
Many thanks for all your advice on this matter
Dave (and any other advice you can give me)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: JerryTodd on April 22, 2012, 05:53:22 AM
You really should take a look at This fellow's work (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611006&highlight=royal+william)
I think he's in line with what you have in mind.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 24, 2012, 08:05:37 PM
Hi All
A little more done
(http://s11.postimage.org/mkld0hw5b/cutout_037.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mkld0hw5b/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/jxi6torev/cutout_039.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jxi6torev/)


(http://s9.postimage.org/vk8lflqq3/cutout_038.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vk8lflqq3/)


(http://s16.postimage.org/tqka2off5/cutout_040.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tqka2off5/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on April 27, 2012, 07:17:32 PM

(http://s14.postimage.org/cudkt6jd9/cutout_071.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/cudkt6jd9/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/k9zit39k3/cutout_070.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/k9zit39k3/)
 
(http://s13.postimage.org/x2nmt0l5v/cutout_067.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x2nmt0l5v/)


(http://s18.postimage.org/vreyhqu9x/cutout_065.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vreyhqu9x/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 03, 2012, 06:39:33 PM

(http://s18.postimage.org/lqm286cqd/cutout_088.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lqm286cqd/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/f59c8ewvp/cutout_090.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/f59c8ewvp/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on May 04, 2012, 09:18:49 AM
Excellent job so far, it just gets better from here on in. You will have a big smile on your face all the time you are running this model. Good progress and good luck with the rest of the build. :-))
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: essex2visuvesi on May 04, 2012, 09:39:49 AM
(http://s18.postimage.org/lqm286cqd/cutout_088.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lqm286cqd/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/f59c8ewvp/cutout_090.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/f59c8ewvp/)


Are you related to Rowan Atkinson? :)

A nice build there.... wish I had the space/knowledge/patience for a build like that
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Jimmy James on May 04, 2012, 11:10:09 AM
Have a look under Yachts and Sail R & D the next thread after this one and look under Briganteen Freebooter This contains a wealth of infomationon Building ,Rigging & how to haul the yards arround and sail making & ways to set and reefing sails
Jimmy
(http://s18.postimage.org/6c68g11th/Freebooter3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6c68g11th/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/gp26cyr1x/Broard_Reach_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gp26cyr1x/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: dreadnought72 on May 04, 2012, 12:15:51 PM
Lovely job so far.

But - planked up from bare bulkheads in three weeks? Do you have any idea how ssllooww this makes me feel?!  :}

Andy
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 04, 2012, 07:21:00 PM
Hi All
 related to Rowan Atkinson? :) I thought I look more like Cary grant or Russell crowed or even a James bond type ?but its not the first time I have heard R, Atkinson mentioned  :o
thankyou all for your kind words ,its my first time with this type of ship so its a big learning curve and it is surprising what you learn by having a go so to speak some ,things I would do again and some I would not .But over all happy so far with what I have done.

If you have any ideas regards making= rigging ,sails, figurehead ,rope,and anything else I would love to here your ideas, it would be a great help to me

As for the speed of build if I was not in the shed at night building the boat I would be indoors having to talk to the wife LOL only joking dear if you ever happen to read this post  <*<

Dave


Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: essex2visuvesi on May 05, 2012, 09:34:27 AM
Would you say bulding in the larger scales is easier than something smaller?
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Big Ada on May 05, 2012, 04:47:33 PM
These take about 30 minutes to construct. I got the plan from the Weymouth model boat show years ago, My model boat club members made them then we raced them accross our lake 4 or 5 years ago, we are going to do the same on Sunday 13th May.


(http://s14.postimage.org/ws4l5rfgd/MBA_April_Regatta_2012_004.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ws4l5rfgd/)

(http://s12.postimage.org/tl9tcrhh5/MBA_April_Regatta_2012_003.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tl9tcrhh5/)

Len, Model Boat Association Dover, Kent.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 06, 2012, 07:04:06 PM
Hi all
Regarding building this models well only my opinion but the bigger they are the better ( big fingers and small parts dont go together)
and I have a fondness for larger models .

well here she is ,grp applied ,rubbed down , and primed.

(http://s16.postimage.org/4x8vwgvht/cutout_096.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4x8vwgvht/)


(http://s16.postimage.org/untgjqfe9/cutout_095.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/untgjqfe9/)


(http://s11.postimage.org/q6tipkmkf/cutout_094.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/q6tipkmkf/)



(http://s9.postimage.org/rdfiz14pn/cutout_093.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rdfiz14pn/)


Title: Sail controls
Post by: JerryTodd on May 06, 2012, 07:22:31 PM
I fly by the seat of my pants, stealing ideas from wherever I find them, and haven't the skills, tools, or money to "machine" intricate control systems for my boats.

Keeping all that in mind, do you have some idea of how you're going to control that rig?

On Constellation I wanted the braces out at the end of the yards as on the real ship - but different length yards mean changing vector geometry resulting in the winch set up I made, based on stolen ideas, and that have yet to be tested in combat.  It works in other large models, so I confident it it's operation for me - but it relies on expensive winch servos which I have already zapped once by connecting the battery with the poles wrong and cost as much as another winch to have them repaired.

Pride is getting a fairly typical control system for a schooner, but with enhancements to handle running backstays and forestays along with three overlapping sails and squares.

Macedonian I plan a cordless drill motor driven system controlled by micoswitches and cheap little servos.  The working braces will be set maybe 6 inches out on the yard and be clear monfiliment while the "scale" braces will run free and just be for looks - eliminating all the fancy geometry and expensive winch servos.

The fore mast should be separately controlled from the main and other after masts to allow you to back wind the fore sails and box the head when tacking.  The heads'l that likely overlap a great deal on your prototype vessel can have the clews and foot set higher to minimize, and even eliminate the overlap and make it easier to sheet them without snagging.

Give some thought to being able to shorten sail - not necessarily remotely, but manually at the ponds edge.  The easier it is to remove and place t'gallants' royals, heads'ls, brail up courses, and even reef tops'l - the more enjoyable sailing the model will be in almost any conditions.  The smoother things operate, the more you'll want to sail, and the more satisfied you'll be with your efforts.  If it's a pain to set up and operate, and she's always on her side in even a moderate breeze, the more sailing her will become a chore you'll try to avoid and she just collect dust or wind up on ebay.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 08, 2012, 05:17:27 PM
Hi all
sprayed the bottom copper colour went over with a light green to give it a tinted look
thank you all for your advice regarding rigging etc (keep it cumming)
Dave
(http://s17.postimage.org/5kyuplcez/cutout_097.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5kyuplcez/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/rux1864hp/cutout_098.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rux1864hp/)


(http://s7.postimage.org/fms357uhj/cutout_099.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fms357uhj/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/fmamoy95f/cutout_100.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fmamoy95f/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/9r7c9cz5z/cutout_109.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9r7c9cz5z/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/4mym4txhv/cutout_104.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4mym4txhv/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/h7c4bo4zh/cutout_105.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/h7c4bo4zh/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 08, 2012, 08:24:17 PM
Hi all
one coat of black base coat applied ,when the hull is finished do you guys put a coat of lacquer over the hull ?

(http://s17.postimage.org/lwneftbmj/cutout_110.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lwneftbmj/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/n1mz1olc7/cutout_111.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/n1mz1olc7/)


(http://s8.postimage.org/gr5fbbsgh/cutout_112.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gr5fbbsgh/)
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on May 09, 2012, 09:30:52 AM
I dont protect my paint finish once applied, as I prefer the model to develop a slightly 'lived in' look over the months. mind you, over the years it starts to look a bit of a wreck...
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: triumphjon on May 09, 2012, 02:42:32 PM
my own boat has a varnished hull , its sailed regularly in salt water , it never even gets cleaned down after a sail , its natural weathering ! jon
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Big Ada on May 09, 2012, 04:26:04 PM
Nope.

Len.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 09, 2012, 08:18:25 PM
Hi all
thankyou for your intake
well while it was upside down thought I would spray over underside
(http://s16.postimage.org/qknqcylwh/cutout_113.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qknqcylwh/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/z923oq40n/cutout_114.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/z923oq40n/)

(http://s10.postimage.org/52cd93uph/cutout_114.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/52cd93uph/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/kb6pec2d3/cutout_115.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/kb6pec2d3/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/iocfw7p7l/cutout_117.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/iocfw7p7l/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/5ov25yz2d/cutout_116.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5ov25yz2d/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 12, 2012, 06:04:25 PM
Hi all

(http://s15.postimage.org/ndej8wbx3/cutout_126.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ndej8wbx3/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/waxf0pb69/cutout_125.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/waxf0pb69/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/ers9ku9dv/cutout_132.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ers9ku9dv/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/50zj8m0ar/cutout_140.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/50zj8m0ar/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/y5xoy9q83/cutout_143.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y5xoy9q83/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/lwk3dcwmv/cutout_144.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lwk3dcwmv/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on May 12, 2012, 06:47:46 PM
That just got bigger!!!
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 13, 2012, 08:26:09 PM
Hi all
Can any one give me info on sails how do they attach to the masks and so on ,how do you stitch then together etc
Dave
(http://s9.postimage.org/6h69r8pnf/cutout_153.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6h69r8pnf/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/t0scmjkd3/cutout_150.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/t0scmjkd3/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/c3gta3zb7/cutout_149.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/c3gta3zb7/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 14, 2012, 06:59:04 PM
hi all
more pics

(http://s15.postimage.org/5ld51za1z/cutout_156.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5ld51za1z/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/h9rg8bb75/cutout_159.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/h9rg8bb75/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/4j4c5ht47/cutout_160.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4j4c5ht47/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/5h61n6onv/cutout_157.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5h61n6onv/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/4ex8qs035/cutout_162.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4ex8qs035/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/dapnbxs3p/cutout_163.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dapnbxs3p/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/mzg53petr/cutout_165.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mzg53petr/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/mkmlo39ir/cutout_166.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mkmlo39ir/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/qiegr2lp7/cutout_169.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qiegr2lp7/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/v648ajx5z/cutout_171.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v648ajx5z/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 14, 2012, 07:03:24 PM
hi all
sorry if I am uploading to many pics , just happy the way its going the sails are only paper templets I dont no if thats how you do it 
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Big Ada on May 15, 2012, 12:39:49 PM
Never to many Photos, its all looking great.

Len.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 16, 2012, 07:32:55 PM
hi all
great to have the sun out at work today came home done a little more to her boat that is

(http://s15.postimage.org/fvbxdp0br/cutout_177.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fvbxdp0br/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/v4xqijbv3/cutout_175.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v4xqijbv3/)

ordered a couple of cannons on gun carriages today from ebay to see what there like when they come will put pics ups
Dave
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: JerryTodd on May 17, 2012, 07:55:57 PM
You might take a look at a cousin; that is, another fellow building a ship of the line.  His is building the 130 gun Santisima Trinidad (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1213742) in 1:50 scale, but you might spot some things of interest in his project.

I'm always looking for ways people solved some particular problem that I have, or may have, besides it fun to see other people's take on a similar project.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 18, 2012, 08:56:53 PM
hi all
cannons what I ordered off ebay arrived very pieased with them very small to put together though I will take some more pics of the lights later and upload
dave

(http://s15.postimage.org/88b4itvt3/cutout_180.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/88b4itvt3/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/c88kqsexh/cutout_179.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/c88kqsexh/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/3mwvgm8lv/cutout_181.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3mwvgm8lv/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/5x10y23vr/cutout_178.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5x10y23vr/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on May 26, 2012, 09:15:11 AM
Hi all first water test to see if any leaks and no all went well have to adjust the ballest sitting a little low in back end
(http://s13.postimage.org/bjxakap4j/cutout_182.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/bjxakap4j/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/gh0hk32zb/cutout_188.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gh0hk32zb/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/fqh7wxw0t/cutout_189.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fqh7wxw0t/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/fnxca47td/cutout_193.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fnxca47td/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/mapijms5h/cutout_187.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mapijms5h/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: sydney heads on June 11, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
Amazing build and in such quick time.
Thanks so much for the many photos, and explanations of how you have overcome the many challenges.

I am commencing to construct the J S Elacono 4 mastered barquentine kit in 1-110 scale.

At the same time I have traced all frames and false keel with the intention later on to construct her sister ship Esmeralda
for r-c operation probably 1-72 scale.

Cheers John
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on June 16, 2012, 12:12:47 PM
thanks for all the kind words good luck with your build not much changed but here you go
(http://s15.postimage.org/6o04zhhif/cutout_194.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6o04zhhif/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/980d7bug7/cutout_197.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/980d7bug7/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/hxyvhu397/cutout_201.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hxyvhu397/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/mnzbwbo5d/cutout_198.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/mnzbwbo5d/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on June 27, 2012, 09:09:07 PM

(http://s11.postimage.org/ff49msq7z/cutout_218.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ff49msq7z/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/o9iyybotd/cutout_217.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/o9iyybotd/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/igz3m3trn/cutout_216.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/igz3m3trn/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on July 04, 2012, 07:58:24 PM
little bit more done
(http://s18.postimage.org/tjf7hbgc5/cutout_222.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tjf7hbgc5/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/gyeqdwfp1/cutout_226.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gyeqdwfp1/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/7ukwr73hx/cutout_223.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/7ukwr73hx/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on July 09, 2012, 07:06:05 PM
hi all, any idea the colour of the yellow band around the hull and who sells it ?

(http://s7.postimage.org/ca2s2025z/cutout_239.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ca2s2025z/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/wdpntg1y3/cutout_236.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wdpntg1y3/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/c3tb4k8l3/cutout_234.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/c3tb4k8l3/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/lltfcp43b/cutout_233.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/lltfcp43b/)

(http://s8.postimage.org/6gnmb28kx/cutout_240.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6gnmb28kx/)


(http://s8.postimage.org/5kr4vlywh/cutout_235.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5kr4vlywh/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Big Ada on July 10, 2012, 08:25:10 PM
I supose Yellow is the wrong answer ?.

Len.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: essex2visuvesi on July 11, 2012, 07:07:07 AM
I think if its similar to the victory it will be yellow ochre.... look at caldercrafts admiralty paints range
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/admiralty_paints_water.html
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on July 11, 2012, 09:25:23 AM
We were given a coffee jar full of original Victory paint while building our big 1/32 scale model. The closest match is Humbrol 63 Sand, which is very close to the original colour, the difference of a coat of varnish, if you know what I mean...
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on July 19, 2012, 08:47:28 PM
hi all  paint came today from fratton models great service first coat on 1/2 more coats to go
(http://s15.postimage.org/dxxfdu2t3/cutout_261.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dxxfdu2t3/)

(http://s18.postimage.org/a5zys1dhx/cutout_259.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/a5zys1dhx/)

(http://s14.postimage.org/d6qx2se9p/cutout_263.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/d6qx2se9p/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/vd0152th3/cutout_258.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vd0152th3/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/gkxdn681b/cutout_257.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/gkxdn681b/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/rfaf3eevr/cutout_262.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rfaf3eevr/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on August 08, 2012, 08:02:57 PM
hi all
(http://s8.postimage.org/y7178ojsx/cutout_321.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/y7178ojsx/)

(http://s11.postimage.org/eh3r4uy3j/cutout_320.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/eh3r4uy3j/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/6wv3lrw63/cutout_319.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6wv3lrw63/)

(http://s12.postimage.org/tfhkljns9/cutout_318.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tfhkljns9/)

(http://s13.postimage.org/6d9lxh8g3/cutout_317.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6d9lxh8g3/)

(http://s17.postimage.org/pkedatf6j/cutout_316.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pkedatf6j/)

(http://s7.postimage.org/97bqx3npj/cutout_315.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/97bqx3npj/)

(http://s8.postimage.org/wbx8zv5fl/cutout_314.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wbx8zv5fl/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/xebal8awh/cutout_313.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xebal8awh/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/c4pu138gr/cutout_312.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/c4pu138gr/)

(http://s16.postimage.org/4r8abfak1/cutout_311.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4r8abfak1/)
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Tug-Kenny on August 08, 2012, 08:09:45 PM

That is really something when you click on the pictures. 

Smashing work    :-))


ken
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: unbuiltnautilus on August 09, 2012, 06:14:40 PM
Coming on very nicely. Can I make a constructive criticism? Less Ochre more Black...
(http://s15.postimage.org/st32c964n/IMG_6703.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/st32c964n/)

(http://s15.postimage.org/rfbfgy6vb/IMG_6713.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rfbfgy6vb/)

This is the big fourteen footer we restored for the navy earlier in the year, if you look closely, the lines of the striping curve up at the bow and stern. they also cut through the cannon ports. its not easy to replicate but I think it would be worth it. also, as I said above, increase the amount of black at the expense of the ochre and I think your model will look even better :-))
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: Positive on August 19, 2012, 07:37:01 AM
So far, all the models appear to be warships.      But if you want to scratchbuild a sailing ship I would really suggest a merchant ship because they are far simpler.      Hardly any fancy decoration and no guns or stern windows in most cases.     Here is the Norwegian barquentine BARDEN that I completed last week.    I know that you are talking about large models and this is a miniature.    But the plans are available large scale from Brown, Son & Ferguson, Glasgow under the name Scandinavian Barquentine.    I would think that something like this is ideal for a first attempt at a large scale square rigger.   It would be easier to radio control as well, because the main & mizzen could be left to their own devices and only the yards on the foremast swung by R/C.
Bob
Title: Channel requirements for multimasted ships
Post by: Brooks22 on August 21, 2012, 05:08:51 AM
3 channels will suffice for any multimasted ship, 2-masted schooner to 4-masted barque, anyway: rudder, foremast, main+mizzen (or main+mizzen+jigger for a 4-masted  barque). For sails, the rule is: 1 channel for masts forward of the CLR (center of lateral resistance), and 1 channel for the sails aft of the CLR. This allows you to use the sails to steer, a very necessary requirement if you want to both tack and wear, in my experience. Multimasted ships are not as rudder-dominated as sloops; you can't, under all wind conditions, simply jam the rudder over to head up or fall off. It's the misunderstanding of this point that has given the multimasted ships such a "hard-to-sail" reputation, I believe. They work just fine if you follow the rule I've given, and if you  adjust sail area to match the wind conditions.

I've gotten away with 2 channels for a bottle boat 2-masted topsail schooner, but that boat requires more microseamanship (and luck with weather) than the 3 channel versions of sailboats. She sails, but her maneuevering is not as elegant as the 3 channel ships.

I don't think that 2 channels would suffice for a barquentine, Mr. Positive (love your miniatures). Fixing the main and mizzen sheets, and only rc-ing the foremast squares, will make it hard to wear ship, or make a run. Going to windward (with tacking) is all fun and good, but at some point in your cruise, you have to sail back downwind to your starting harbour :-).
-------------
My ships (gaff sloop, topsail schooners, brigantine, brig, 4-masted barque) can be seen here under my pre-mayhem-crash screen name of Brooks, or over on rcgroups.com (sailboats and scale sailboats forums) under Brooks.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on November 06, 2012, 08:18:25 AM
hi all
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: meatbomber on November 07, 2012, 08:27:49 AM
Awesome work :)


i`d love to do a 74 in 1:50 scale but since 2 years am not even able to finish a small 18gun shipsloop :D it`s amazing how fast you are progressing which such a large build.
I`ve built 4 sailing square riggers allmuch smaller than yours, but they sailed fairly well thanks to Brookses help. All of them independent control over the sails before and aft of the CLR which was essential to make them work right.
Title: Re: Square riggers
Post by: daveh on December 15, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
hi all
almost finished victory thinking of putting her on ebay soon
dave