Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: nick_75au on May 16, 2012, 10:35:50 am
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(http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=8a24c98a696b4e5723db293f62190b87&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcgroups.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D918686&v=1&libid=1337160507310&out=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.rcgroups.net%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2F1%2F4%2F2%2F9%2F4%2F2%2Fa4865528-228-2012-05-16%252018.43.30.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcgroups.com%2Fscale-boats-55%2F&title=1%2F48%20Guided%20Missile%20frigate%20%22%20Oliver%20Hazard%20Perry%22%20-%20RC%20Groups&txt=&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13371605175181)
(http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=8a24c98a696b4e5723db293f62190b87&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcgroups.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D918686&v=1&libid=1337160507310&out=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.rcgroups.net%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2F1%2F4%2F2%2F9%2F4%2F2%2Fa4865530-151-2012-05-16%252018.44.55.jpg&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcgroups.com%2Fscale-boats-55%2F&title=1%2F48%20Guided%20Missile%20frigate%20%22%20Oliver%20Hazard%20Perry%22%20-%20RC%20Groups&txt=&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13371605523982)
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Well thats what we called them when I was in the service, the DDG's had the nickname Dont Do Girls :D.
I hope to have her in a sailable condition for Armistice day as we are having a fleet review at Logan City Marine Modellers
Cheers
Nick
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Nice hull what a great looking prop that should push her thru the water at scale speed ffg rock
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A little disappointed with the name of this thread Nick..... <*< .......
BTW....the prop on the FFG looks prototypical :-)).........Derek
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Prop is a work of art, courtesy of tassie48 :-)) shame its not a CCP ;D
Been out of action the last few days, the kids brought home a rotten bout of gastro {:-{
Nick
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A little disappointed with the name of this thread Nick..... <*< .......
Well considering the earlier Gay class thread I didnt think it was too far out of line ;D
Nick
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(http://s17.postimage.org/jenmat1u3/2012_06_09_19_48_56_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jenmat1u3/)
Working on the bow bulwarks and anchor windlass control deflector
Nick
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Couple more pics of deck detail, .22 cal shells make a near perfect 8" bollard
Cheers
Nick
(http://s17.postimage.org/qnjyv7a2j/2012_06_12_16_39_11.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qnjyv7a2j/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/tix222e2j/2012_06_12_16_39_29.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tix222e2j/)
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(http://img1.shapeways.netdna-cdn.com/model/picture/640x476_606229_463251_1339918062.jpg)
http://www.shapeways.com/model/606229/?materialId=6
Been tooling around with an Autodesk product called 123D, a free download and uploaded it to Shapeways, the shipping is a killer at $20 for what is a $2.00 part so I haven't ordered them
Cheers
Nick
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The keel was just a single ply piece when I received the hull so I added the foam to give the correct profile, I ground away the glass at the base of the keel after the foam was shaped so the new glass sits flush with the hull profile. I used 6 ounces of Chopped strand mat but split the glass into 2 plies so it would more easily conform to the rather sharp bends, mixed up the resin painted the foam first then laid on the first layer stippled then rolled, laid on the second layer and repeat.
Posibility of a boo boo here, I was a bit light on the catalyst so a couple of hours later its still wet. I hit it with a heat gun but Im going to leave it for 24 hours now. Usually my resin goes off too quickly but I forgot about the temp, it was only about 12 C when I laid the glass. Last time I did a lay up it was closer to 35 C :-[
The anchor repair is slightly different, I backed up the hole with a peice of thin ply beveled the edge of the hole, laid a peice of 3 ounce Choppy mat then added a peice of 12 ounce double bias cloth, more because I needed to bring the thickness up quickly than for any strenght advantage that DB gives ::)
The stabilisers are shaped aluminium with a stainless steel shaft like the rudder and a 75 mm "stuffing tube" was made from a piece of stainless tube and brass bushes turned up to suit. I made the control horns out of some sheet brass with Dubro collars silver soldered to the arm. When I flip the hull over I will get a shot of the internal reinforcement and control arms.
The bilge keels are 4 mm perspex tapered down pinned with 3mm studs, I used epoxy and nuts on the studs to secure them to the hull
Cheers
Nick
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4971197-144-2012-06-28%2016.03.14.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4971198-113-2012-06-28%2016.03.30.jpg)
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(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4971200-7-2012-06-28%2016.28.18.jpg)
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I received my superstructure kit from Charles at CNC Models, today. Literaly just walked in the door;) From just unpacking the box I'm impressed, well packed it arrived in perfect shape. It has a lot more pieces than I expected including the mast platforms. He also included 2 sheets of evergreen for the hanger doors and vents.
I quickly took the hanger deck-head out to the hull and its within a couple of millimeters of being the same width ( I was a bit worried one or the other were going to be out).
I probably wont make a start on the superstructure until I've finished the underside of the hull now, I actually wasn't ecpecting it to arrive so quickly:cool:
Pictures to follow .....
Nick
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Each square is 25 cm, makes the superstructure nearly 1500 mm long
Cheers
Nick
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4973266-160-2012-06-29%2016.45.30%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4973267-49-2012-06-29%2016.45.50%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
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(http://img1.shapeways.netdna-cdn.com/model/picture/640x476_606229_463251_1339918062.jpg)
http://www.shapeways.com/model/606229/?materialId=6
Been tooling around with an Autodesk product called 123D, a free download and uploaded it to Shapeways, the shipping is a killer at $20 for what is a $2.00 part so I haven't ordered them
Cheers
Nick
My father in law and I have just bought one of those Thing-o-matic 3d printers to make some prototype tractor parts, so might be able to do something for you :)
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Thats wicked, This could become a truly International effort then :-))
Cheers
Nick
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(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4994545-169-2012-07-08%2017.13.11.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4994543-226-2012-07-08%2017.12.37.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a4994546-43-2012-07-08%2017.13.34.jpg)
Got the hull painted :-)
Nick
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Here is the basic superstructure fitted to the deck, lots of work to complete it,
Also the capstan brake has been added , a copper wire ring, a shaped shim brass piece for the spokes and a 3mm rod soldered together, there is also a control box that goes in here.
Nick
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5013145-141-2012-07-16%2020.19.25.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5013146-170-2012-07-16%2020.54.23.jpg)
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Topic renamed on request. :-)
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Cheers :-))
Stellar service and at the speed of light as well :-)
Nick
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Wow Nick 1:48 how long is she? %% %%
That super structure look really nice. I have a 1:96 Tico superstructure that was made the same way...
Andrew
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Minor update, had a engineering casualty in that the drive belt broke in my lathe, ordered a new one on the 11th my machine is now up and running again thanks to LittleMachineShop out of California. I was going to spend this week making the shaft and fitting basic RC I spent the last couple of nights doing some fddly deck details.
I'm calling the winch control area done, other than the ships bell, the anchor gear still needs some work, the capstan is just one from the parts bin, I will be doing a closer to scale version.
She is close to 10 Foot long, super structure is pretty good, couple of very minor hic-ups with the fit, though nothing worth worrying about.
Cheers
Nick
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5020232-30-2012-07-17%2019.24.38.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5020233-183-2012-07-17%2019.26.39.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5020234-177-2012-07-17%2019.37.34.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5020235-124-2012-07-17%2020.07.03.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5020236-4-2012-07-17%2020.07.14.jpg)
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5020237-121-2012-07-19%2018.47.40.jpg)
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-24%2020.18.38%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Mk13 Missile launcher progress, added lifting eyes, what I believe are blast doors and made a start on the 2 hatches .
Nick
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Hi Nick.... I spent 1405 days :} supervising fault finding, maintenance & refit on GMLS13 launchers for our HMA vessels {-)
The larger rectangular plate/round door is [personal ] access to the machinary space which is circled by the outer magazine = two concentric circles of cells [16 + 24] in which the missiles sit naturally in the vertical plane ...
The magazine is accessed by the round door FWD on an FFG as shown in your image ......was a bit scary on my first entry [1987] to a live magazie filled with white domed birds [Harpoon missles]
The actual blast door is located between the two 'A' supports for the Guide Arm - this is located directly below the guide arm when the guide arm is in the vertical plane
The missiles are loaded from an along side lighter/amo barge via a dolly then to the guide arm 'rail' in the horizontal plane, then the arm elevates to the vertical plane & the missile down loaded into a cell
When you get to the painting stage...follow these simple representation/points
'A' Frames & Guide Arm = normal superstructure colored enamel
Arm Rail = flat molybond [dark gray colored] steel
Actual Blast door and circular ring of the Launcer that the A Frames mount on = Molybond [dark gray] color enamel with fine sand added to represent the high temperature ablative finsih
Major diameter of the magazine proper top surface & down to the full ring magazine retaining bolts [132 x 1 1/4"UNEF from memory >>:-(] = Molybond [dark gray] color enamel without fine sand
Your representation is very good :-))..is it a kit or sctratch built?........Derek
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Hi Derek,
Very interesting information, I had the impression the blast doors were the round articles near the lifting eyes. I cant take credit for it, the major parts were moulded by the previous owner, who moulded the arms, main baseplate and launcher rail, I've added the ships mounting ring as well as the minor detailing bits such as the padeyes, doors and the round things near the eyes, I still have to ad a couple more things that I think.
Nick
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thanks spend many a hour photographing the ship tell you what nick is doing a cracking job lots of research ends up as good results have a complete museum model in 1/48 just about ready to sail tassie48
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Its done, and then I look at a referance photo and notice a couple of differences arrgh :embarrassed: Silly thing the differences would have made it easier %%
Its not 100% but from 5 feet away I think it will be hard pressed to tell
Moving on but it will bug me
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-26%2019.13.14%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Nick
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Mk41 VLS
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-28%2016.43.14%20%28Small%29.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-28%2016.43.38%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Cheers
Nick
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Ships bell, capstan and one of the several deck hatches.
Cheers
Nick
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-30%2018.05.32%20%28Small%29.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-30%2018.05.58%20%28Small%29.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-07-30%2020.32.35%20%28Small%29.jpg)
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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22357850&postcount=1124 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22357850&postcount=1124)
Couple of photos here of My HMAS Sydney alongside a 1/48 Ticonderoga hull
Teaser
(http://s13.postimage.org/q7ubkp0o3/2012_08_05_11_22_10.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/q7ubkp0o3/)
Cheers
Nick
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Things progress slowly at the moment, I've ordered a small fortune in various carbon fibre round, flat and square to build the main mast STIR and CAS platforms. Ive ordered some Ice fishing rod blanks for the 6 HF aerials, The 76 mm OTO Melara gun and liferaft canisrers are on their way form APS models. I'm still waiting for the couplings for the main shaft.
So while I'm waiting for these things I started on the 02 deck handrails, no pics yet, I've only made about 30 scale feet in 2 days not including the ones I stuffed up due to isometric drawings ) I started out with some copper 6mm cable that has 7 strands of approx .8mm diameter cable, It is just slightly over scale I believe.
I stripped the cores then straightened them, I made a semi jig to space the rails from plywood with groves cut at the required spacing, FFG's dont have one continues rail, its split into sections so as to be removable or folded down for gunnery etc so far the longest portion is 4 verticals long, and each piece has different lengths between verticals.
Nick
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/4/2/9/4/2/a5061558-164-2012-08-05%2020.59.17.jpg)
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Making the pipe rails
Start with some scrap cable with appropriate sized core, strip it, unravel a strand from the bundle, put one end in a drill chuck, put the other end into a vise or secure it, put some tension on the strand and run the drill back and forth untill the wire snaps in the chuck(be careful not to lean back or you will end up on your backside :} you now have a straight and relatively hard piece of copper wire, put the gut off lengths in the jig and solder, I used some fine copper to secure the horizontal pieces.
Also works for making twisted wire, wire will be shorter than what is cut off, keep the lengths the same when securing in the chuck or it wont look as good, thicker wire lays up a bit better than this 28G I used for demo.
(http://s17.postimage.org/crzb3rguz/2012_08_08_15_44_50_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/crzb3rguz/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/e8atlwjrv/2012_08_08_15_51_05_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/e8atlwjrv/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/jxr267py3/2012_08_08_15_55_14_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jxr267py3/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/rrrnrlxqz/2012_08_08_15_55_34_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/rrrnrlxqz/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/90pqhg36j/2012_08_08_15_56_45_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/90pqhg36j/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/67wixf2u3/2012_08_08_15_57_24_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/67wixf2u3/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/pe9q0ljbv/2012_08_08_16_02_13_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pe9q0ljbv/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/7cql2spaz/2012_08_08_16_13_14_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/7cql2spaz/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/ev9qbfgnv/2012_08_08_16_14_25_Small.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ev9qbfgnv/)
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Nick....if you need some miniture co-axial wiring for the FFG.......I just happen to have a [now semi] complete wiring loom from a Harpoon missile O0 ...all colour coded....
You would just need the code {-) .........Derek
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Ha ha nice, Not sure where I would need Co-ax though. You have found some use for it I gather ok2
Slowly going through the rails, Ive made all the rails now from the start of the flare to the hanger back to the hanger, only 3/4 more of the upper deck to do %%
Cheers
Nick
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Stanchion Production line
Made 43 of the little :(( Have to see how many I actually need, Got a feeling its a few more <:(
Nick
(http://s12.postimage.org/80j5zrmbt/2012_08_13_19_12_49.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/80j5zrmbt/)
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-08-25%2017.22.50%20%28Small%29.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-08-25%2017.22.58%20%28Small%29.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-08-25%2017.23.07%20%28Small%29.jpg)
A small Update, the driveline has been installed, I used clamp style couplings from E-bay, they are really nice looking units, they seem to be avaiable in many sizes as well, they are quite large diameter but certainly fine for a 1:48 build :-))
Coupling]http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/D-25mm-L-30mm-8mm-X-10mm-CNC-Flexible-Jaw-Spider-Plum-Coupling-Shaft-Coupler-/110877373158?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19d0ce72e6#ht_4840wt_906"]Coupling (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/D-25mm-L-30mm-8mm-X-10mm-CNC-Flexible-Jaw-Spider-Plum-Coupling-Shaft-Coupler-/110877373158?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19d0ce72e6#ht_4840wt_906")
I'm a bit worried the standard servo not having enough power, the Nexus Tide I built had a similar sized rudder and its servo occasionally stalled
Cheers
Nick
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Small Update
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-10-02%2019.26.59%20%28Small%29.jpg)
The Stack, I've got to figure out how to do the Lourves
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-10-02%2019.27.10%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Put a couple of exhaust fans in it for some ventilation
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-10-02%2019.31.13%20%28Small%29.jpg)
APS Models 76 MM Oto Melara in primer
Cheers
Nick
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Nick you have the funnel and the fans - have you considered putting a smoke unit in - you should have plenty of room at 1/48 scale
Geoff
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is shapeways $20 shipping per item or per order?
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On the smoke unit, probably not, not much smoke from a gas turbine or steady state diesel, I wonder how I can simulate a heat haze :P
Plenty of room though :-)
Shapeways is $20 per order but for the UK it will be considerably cheaper $9:50, Uk is an EU country isn't it %)
Cheers
Nick
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-10-04%2016.52.31%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Mast is on the way, used carbon 6 x1 mm carbon strip for the webs, this is not the best way as they tend to split along the "grain" so to speak, Its all held together with thick CA and feels very strong though. the verticals are a combination of 6, 5,and 4 mm tube and all the cross bracing is 3 mm carbon.
I ran out of the 3 mm rod, there is nearly 3 metres of 3 mm rod in it:eek:
Cheers
Nick
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-10-09%2018.08.09%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Port side engine intakes and stack nearly done.
It doesnt show but I used metal siding evergreen with a 2mm styrene strip for the border, I would like to highlight the recesses of the grill with black but I'm not sure how just yet.
Cheers
Nick
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-10-11%2021.09.14%20%28Small%29.jpg)
Nearly there with the main mast. Only a tiny bit more bracing, and then the detailing cable trunks and a whole lot of other pieces.
Cheers
Nick
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I took her out to the lake today to do a sea trial, I have nailed the motor set-up I reckon, its perfect, draws 21.5 amps at full throttle, 290 odd watts at about 14 volts with a 4 cell Li-po. A surprise was the stabilizer system, it works very well as well, the boat resists heeling when sharp turns are conducted. I tried to get some on board footage, got about 30 seconds and the recorder stopped >>:-(
Anyway a couple of Pics
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-11-04%2010.58.21%20(Small).jpg)
Grey ship Grey sky
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-11-04%2011.00.08%20(Small).jpg)
At speed, the performance is very realistic
Cheers
Nick
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http://youtu.be/eKcWKgWgf18 (http://youtu.be/eKcWKgWgf18)
Cheers
Nick
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Hi Nick....I enjoyed all those ~~~~ 2:28:30 minutes of her sea trials
1. She seemed to cut through the wake of the A/Bourke destroyer very cleanly :-))
2. The few transmission moans & groans are non protoypical :embarrassed:
3. The guide arm on the GMLS13 launcher....should it not face FWD...with or without a bird on the rail? O0
Overall...9.5/10 congratulations.......Derek
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I am very happy with her on water performance :-))
Most of the noise is ESC generated I think, the motor may need an elastomeric mount. Or I need to get Masker working ;D
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x87/capntroy223/9fa0cad1.jpg)
Like this {:-{ If its not correct I have the technology to rotate the launcher arm :-)
I spent my career down in the ER bilge I know not these things about machinery on the deck :embarrassed:
Cheers
Nick
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{-) ...could the image below of the launcher be on a USN vessel?
rotate the launcher 180 degrees.......depress the guide arm 35 degrees & show a BLUE bird on the rail ...you know what I mean....... O0 ...Derek
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/exodusforever/Military%20Models/ALB101788-103.jpg)
Yes that was a USN Photo
Here is what your talking about :-)) so this is the standard for when at sea? will make the required modifications O0
Cheers
Nick
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(http://s15.postimage.org/jq6d45rqf/300_1614.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/jq6d45rqf/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/myauh7e07/300_1617.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/myauh7e07/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/i0x9w3c13/300_1619.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/i0x9w3c13/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/p6tmcaahz/300_1620.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p6tmcaahz/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/6ibkoyjl3/300_1625.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6ibkoyjl3/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/6xmuhz5if/300_1628.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6xmuhz5if/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/s8kem8nmv/300_1629.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s8kem8nmv/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/9hihc2t2f/300_1646.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9hihc2t2f/)
Just a bunch of pics from our Remembrance Day Regatta :-)
Cheers
nick
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nice ships :-))
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Thank you :-))
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-11-14%2016.14.27%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
Mullets had a bad day, Painted the Helo marks on the flight deck and had massive bleed through, so I had to repaint the deck skid around all the lines :-[
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-11-14%2016.14.48%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
Internals of Stab, a $3.00 servo driving in essence a rudder, the servo is mounted on a 45 Deg plane the same as the control horn. the Stbd side is mirrored, servos are connected to a Y lead which hooks to the Aileron port on the Orange Stabilizer box
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2012-11-14%2016.15.00%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
Just the outside of the stab.
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2013-03-06%2020.39.32%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/93197015/2013-03-06%2020.39.46%20%28Medium%29.jpg)
Started one of the more complicated but prominent parts of the build, next ship I build will have a phased array, Im loosing hair on this %%
Cheers
Nick
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Looking good mate
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Hi Nick....I have climbed up to one of these in real life to view the drive :embarrassed: & I don't like heights :o
How is the weight?........FFG's in real life roll a lot this could certainly help a model do the same O0 ....Derek
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20 grams for this part of the radar, I'm guessing the overall weight will end up around the 50-60 grams.
Thanks
Nick
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6EHItQSEmY
FFG went to sea today at our remembrance day regatta, Video tells the story :-))
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That is very responsive! Lovely ship, I think you need to recreate yourself in 1:48th on top of the missile launcher!
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Thanks, still a long way to go in the build :embarrassed: only the near finished bits in the viewfinder.