Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: ex docky on May 28, 2012, 05:31:51 pm
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Hi,
I am building an OTW S class and will shortly be thinking about a colour scheme.
The only pictures I can find are in black and white.
I quite fancy the "camouflage" effect i.e. the diagonal stripes across the casing - does anyone have info as to the actual colours used?
Thanks
ex docky
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Hi,
I know the book 'British Submarines 1939-45 (New Vanguard)' is a good reference source or the Submarine museum in Gosport (ex HMS Dolphin) maybe of help.
regards,
Rich
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Hi, I'm also building one at the mo I will have a look at some of the photos as I'm sure I have a couple in colour. I will have a look later and let you know. Tom
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If the boat was operating out of Trimcomalee (Ceylon) then the above waterline color was Brunswick Green (Hunter Green?) and the below waterline was a dirty brown. I was personally told this by the 1st Lt of HMS Sibyl Stephen Jenner. The sea in that part of the world was a dark green.
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I remember a model of an s class sub, in the museum at Gosport. That had the colour scheme that you are interesed in. It was built by the captain of the actuall boat, so it must be very close to the reall colours, worh a look if you can. From what I can remember, it was Brunswick green and Maybe, duck egg shell green upper surfaces.
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Please forgive the slight high jack here...
Can someone please tell me if the "U" and "V" class subs would have used a similar color scheme while serving in the Med.? Or, possibly, would they have used more of a 'blue-ish' color for the above the water line bits?
Thanks for your time,
Dan
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U class serving in the med were paint Mediterranean blue above the water line :-))
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Murky Buckets...
And now back to your regular programming.
Dan
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Third Group S Class Boats operating in the Far Eastern theater during WWII were painted two shades of green which was standard colours during that period. HMS/m Storm is well documented wearing this camouflage. A dark green and light green which would be close to a lime colour
Regards
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Third Group S Class Boats operating in the Far Eastern theater during WWII were painted two shades of green which was standard colours during that period. HMS/m Storm is well documented wearing this camouflage. A dark green and light green which would be close to a lime colour
Regards
Stephen Jenner told me that the captain's had the final say in a boat's color scheme, and he then chose from what was available on the depot ship. So, it would appear that every boat could be slightly different. Unless you have conclusive proof of a color scheme, then its all guesswork!
At least we know the colors of Sibyl and Storm.
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Perhaps you should read Teddy Young's book "One of our Submarines" (HMS/m STORM) I knew Teddy well before he sadly passed away. Or perhaps David Hill and not forgetting John Lambert both maritime draughtsmen on British Submarines whom again I know quite well. Perhaps Robin Hinson, a past photographer for the Royal Navy Submarine Museum, with I may add has one of the largest privately owned photographic and submarine drawing collections in the UK. There are of course numerous reference books dating over the years which, if you read them refer to the colour schemes for the various areas for operations during WWII You must not forget however, there are those whom study the subject of submarines of the Royal Navy.
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Perhaps you should read Teddy Young's book "One of our Submarines" (HMS/m STORM) I knew Teddy well before he sadly passed away. Or perhaps David Hill and not forgetting John Lambert both maritime draughtsmen on British Submarines whom again I know quite well. Perhaps Robin Hinson, a past photographer for the Royal Navy Submarine Museum, with I may add has one of the largest privately owned photographic and submarine drawing collections in the UK. There are of course numerous reference books dating over the years which, if you read them refer to the colour schemes for the various areas for operations during WWII You must not forget however, there are those whom study the subject of submarines of the Royal Navy.
I don't know Young, or Hill, but J Lambert and I have conversed on many occasion. John wasn't serving on these boats in the Far East, or on the Depot Ships, so he wouldn't have known the day to day operations.
I do know Stephen Jenner. (http://www.saoceast.com/steven_jenner/jenner1.gif)
I spoke with him on many an occasion, and my wife and I drove to Nova Scotia to spend time with him. He was the Commander of the Canadian Submarine Fleet, besides being my dad's 1st lieutenant on HMS Sibyl http://www.saoceast.com/jenner.htm (http://www.saoceast.com/jenner.htm)
Cmdr Jenner told me of these Far East colors and I have a video of the discussion somewhere. I'll find it in due course.
Having said all that, I don't see your point.
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I never said that John had served on the S Boats and neither had David Hill, what I did mention is that they are maritime draughtsmen and that there are those whom do study the subject. I have picked up the point that a serving officer can request to have changes made to the boat, well yes that was true when the boat was on the build fitting out. These changes were usually made by the new commander and engineering chief which would be working with the constructor prior to any members of crew and of any rank arriving. However, the colour schemes which were decided by the Admiralty were standard and were not open to negotiation. The pattern of camouflage pattern may differ obviously but this would due to dockyard mateys or spare crew on depot ships and bases carring out the work.
However, in the attempt to answer a question to aid a modeller earlier, it appears a dispute has erupted. All I can say further now is Read, Read more books from those who do know.
But obviously you know more
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It is a shame that there are not more colour photographs taken at the time. It would certainly help to answer the "ongoing" discussions about colour schemes!
If any one knows of colour photographs perhaps they could share their sources.
To get the ball rolling, I found some very nice footage of a 1944 U class in "Western Approaches". This is a wartime film shot in Technicolor which I reviewed in the AMS magazine. Sadly because the U class was operating in home waters the colour was ............................grey!
David
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Coo! someone opened up a can of worms. Go for it boys, handbags at dawn.
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I have these not the best, Tom
(http://s12.postimage.org/63ahvnagp/graph.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/63ahvnagp/)
(http://s8.postimage.org/9w6jsmbgx/HMS_Sea_Dog.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9w6jsmbgx/)
(http://s8.postimage.org/49es8vyc1/P614storing.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/49es8vyc1/)
(http://s13.postimage.org/hptgpw8ib/sclass.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hptgpw8ib/)
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Of course, it might be best to approach this whole subject from another angle. Which actual boat are you going to model? And in what period of it's life? Almost all boats went through changes, as guns were swapped around, bandstands installed, etc. According to Jenner, these alterations were at the request of the captain. So the boat you have is just a generic thing, not particularly modeled on any specific boat. It's type III, and from memory I'd say Storm, but the photos need top be checked. Come up the the specific boat and then the color may become obvious!
I have an article on the mods done to the S Class here http://support.caswellplating.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/353/48/the-sub-driver-gazette--9-nov-2011
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Thanks Tomp! You have just about quadrupled the number of colour photos I've seen over the years.
(Shame they are all grey ok2.)
David
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This is the model at the Submarine museum in Gosport, taken a couple of years ago, hope they help.
(http://s18.postimage.org/x9vqvt2fp/IMG_1607.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x9vqvt2fp/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/9k6b7442d/IMG_1608.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9k6b7442d/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/vkr91hc45/IMG_1609.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vkr91hc45/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/who0zimrb/IMG_1610.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/who0zimrb/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/58cnl0lo7/IMG_1611.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/58cnl0lo7/)
(http://s15.postimage.org/5z5dqso1j/IMG_1612.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5z5dqso1j/)
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(http://s18.postimage.org/6l8lbh9cl/IMG_1613.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6l8lbh9cl/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/e2hsqoyvp/IMG_1614.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/e2hsqoyvp/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/psvq82ro5/IMG_1615.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/psvq82ro5/)
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(http://s11.postimage.org/73hr0imnj/IMG_1616.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/73hr0imnj/)
(http://s11.postimage.org/dv863dbn3/IMG_1617.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dv863dbn3/)
(http://s11.postimage.org/9alzofrxr/IMG_1618.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9alzofrxr/)
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Here are the colors I went with. Bob at OTW provided me the topside blue and It seems to be close to the color photos posted earlier.
D
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Fantastic looking model. great paint work :-)) ok2
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ffr....your vertical brownish rust/corrosion weathering together with the horizontal greenish slime line is very well executed :-)) ......Derek
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Thanks guys. added a few more images. Type 7 is from Mike Dory and gives a great size comparison. The S was my favorite model to run at periscope level. Only controlled the bow planes and let the angle keeper handle the tail with no override. Tug is my fathers.
Darrin H
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tower
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Your S class looks awesome :-))
Hope mine turns out something like it