Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: andywright on April 15, 2007, 08:13:55 pm

Title: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on April 15, 2007, 08:13:55 pm
I know its make believe steam, but hear are a couple of pictures of sea trials  of my Metcalf Mouldings Solent launch. the layout is my own design, thought up from various launches on the net.Still loads to do. The JJC Smokey will be lagged to look like a boiler.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: RickF on April 15, 2007, 11:45:06 pm
Looks good, Andy. Are you going to install a dummy working engine?

Rick
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bunkerbarge on April 17, 2007, 07:48:19 am
Lovely hull Andy, nice bit of woodwork and she looks the part on the water.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on April 17, 2007, 07:45:46 pm
It needs a crew now, 1/8th scale, maybe barbie and Ken in victorian clothing. Any body any ideas, 1/12th scale dolls house people too small!!!
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bunkerbarge on April 24, 2007, 08:24:33 pm
Barbie and Ken are, I beleive, 1/6th Scale.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: karbine on July 18, 2007, 04:02:53 pm
There are actually launches like this which operate on the River Thames
(http://www.electric-boat-association.org.uk/images/members/irene.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Guy Bagley on July 18, 2007, 05:07:31 pm
nice work andy, i too have a make believe steam launch on the bench.... ( its been on the bench for 3 yrs now) but  you have spurred me on to do some more on it !)

i also plan to used the JJC old smokey in it, the boiler is built and the old smoked unit designed to go under it

 andy, how big is the boat ? what sort of  electric motor are you using, it all looks good !
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: bogstandard on July 18, 2007, 05:32:18 pm
Hi Andy,
Here is a website to have figures made, they aren't cheap but the detail is great, and no two are the same.

http://www.nickycc.com/

My friend has had three commisions done here in 1/10th scale for his Victoria, if you go to the gentlemen page they are shown there.

John
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: rats on July 19, 2007, 11:49:53 pm
interesting website bogstandard I've been looking for some decent figures for my Borkum
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on September 06, 2008, 01:05:13 am
Got fed up of the make believe steam, now looking for a decent steam plant, it will really show the boat off, I have made a big effort to complete the boat the last couple of weeks, so now looking seriously for a nice steam plant, or an the components to assemble, ie engine , boiler, oiler etc. Making brass fittings for the deck. Finally will probably fit a colourful canopy.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on November 28, 2009, 09:21:20 pm
14 months since my last post in this section, and I have the boiler, the engine is on order.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0579.jpg)

have the gas tank, need to obtain a oily water separator/condenser.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: MCR on November 28, 2009, 11:08:02 pm
Much much better looks fab
Mark
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bernhard on November 29, 2009, 07:32:16 am
hi..........great launch.........what size is it,,,,,,,,,,,do you have the drawings to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i use this kind of figures in my  boats

Regards Bernhard   http://cgi.ebay.com/NAUTICAL-CAPTAIN-FIGURE-SMOKING-PIPE-SHELF-SITTER-NEW_W0QQitemZ390111253759QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad47154ff
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bernhard on November 29, 2009, 08:01:07 am
here is some smaller one ............  http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/Westharbour-Gifts__W0QQ_sidZ32877870?_nkw=shelf&submit=Search


Regards Bernhard
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on November 29, 2009, 10:13:13 am
hi..........great launch.........what size is it,,,,,,,,,,,do you have the drawings to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i use this kind of figures in my  boats

Hi Bernard, its 42inches x 11, I bought the grp hull less the deck from Metcalf Mouldings, then decked it my self, its almost identical to the Hemmens Lady Jayne for aa fraction of the cost, I spent about 70.00 on the hull I think and the timber was 45 from Modelling Timbers, though I have timber left for another model.

Regards Bernhard   http://cgi.ebay.com/NAUTICAL-CAPTAIN-FIGURE-SMOKING-PIPE-SHELF-SITTER-NEW_W0QQitemZ390111253759QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad47154ff

I'll size this up thanks. I am going to a dolls house and miniatures fair next week at Chipping Sodbury so will have a look around for "crew".
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on November 29, 2009, 10:22:06 am
Bernard
Metcalf Mouldings Solent

http://freespace.virgin.net/metcalf.mouldings/solent.htm

http://business.virgin.net/metcalf.mouldings/catalogue.htm

Regards Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on December 01, 2009, 11:21:00 am
hi..........great launch.........what size is it,,,,,,,,,,,do you have the drawings to it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i use this kind of figures in my  boats

Regards Bernhard   http://cgi.ebay.com/NAUTICAL-CAPTAIN-FIGURE-SMOKING-PIPE-SHELF-SITTER-NEW_W0QQitemZ390111253759QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad47154ff

Thanks Bernard, the figure is a good price, but the shipping is more than the cost of the figure.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on December 02, 2009, 09:46:18 pm
Another update photo, Boiler clad and varnished two more bands to fit, funnel painted. Running out of things to do now, need the engine, roll on christmas.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0586web.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: MOG8 on December 04, 2009, 07:35:11 am
I like very much your launch and steam plant, it couldn't be otherwise.
But, as a personal taste, I like very much steam launches WITHOUT any dolls.
All the steam-related atmosphere should be left to the imagination of those who enjoy watching the launch, static in display or performing in a pond.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on December 04, 2009, 02:59:05 pm
I like very much your launch and steam plant, it couldn't be otherwise.
But, as a personal taste, I like very much steam launches WITHOUT any dolls.
All the steam-related atmosphere should be left to the imagination of those who enjoy watching the launch, static in display or performing in a pond.

I agree, it is a nice model, but sorry Giovanni, I don't agree about people. It is a most unnatural thing to see a vessel with no crew. We spend so much time getting scale detail right, to leave off the crew just makes the boat look incomplete.

Still, each to their own.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: steamboatmodel on December 05, 2009, 02:46:24 am
I have to agree with Underpressure, a boat without a crew particularly when it is running doesn't look natural.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bernhard on December 05, 2009, 08:38:15 am
hi...........i like it to .with some crew on the boat...or it look like a ghost launch..........

Regards Bernhard
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: MCR on December 05, 2009, 09:21:54 am
Its all in the wording CREW NOT DOLLS I agree a scale figure makes all the difference.
I made a figure of my Dad to go onto my sailing boat.
Mark
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: MOG8 on December 05, 2009, 09:37:40 am
i have always made mine the motto of the famous architect Ludwig Mies Van der Rohe:
" LESS  IS  MORE  "
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: gondolier88 on December 05, 2009, 09:55:15 am
Each to their own, I prefer to see myself as the crew- I fired the boiler up and I tell it where to go- I don't need a doll to sit dead still in the boat and do nothing to make people see the realism of it- if anything I personally think it detracts- however saying that Bernhard's models always seem to have the 'right' character at the helm so perhaps I could be convinced...

Greg
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on December 26, 2009, 07:58:23 pm
Christmas present now built!

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0593web.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on December 29, 2009, 04:03:36 pm
The question is now, will the gas tank benefit from being fitted for'd of ther boiler, will it absorb a little radiated heat from the boiler to help stop any cooling pressure drops

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0597web.jpg)


or here amidships where there is a shorter run of gas pipe

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0596web.jpg)

I am not struggling on displacement so it can go for'd if it would benefit the gas supply.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on December 29, 2009, 04:13:08 pm
Lots of views on this subject, but if it were me, I would mount it in front of the boiler and arrange some sort of heat transfer device that is in direct contact with both the boiler and the gas tank; something like a bit of copper sheet suitably shaped.

It's all looking very nice and that engine is a gem.

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on December 30, 2009, 06:12:09 am
Nie job and nice looking boat as well...

Just a question Andy- any reason why you have the burner back near the engine  as opposed reversed with it afore the boiler?
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kiwimodeller on December 30, 2009, 09:35:05 am
I was just thinking the same, that the boat might look more balanced with the funnel back closer to the engine, the gas tank would then be right next to the burner (if you put it forward) and although the steam line to the engine would be longer it would be easy to run it in to the funnel to have a superheater loop which there has been lots of discussion about lately. Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on December 30, 2009, 12:35:05 pm
Mogogear, Kiwimodeller,
Well that put the cat amongst the pigeons so to speak,
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0598web.jpg)

or

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0599web.jpg)




I knew as soon as I drilled holes and fixed something another idea would crop up.
I guess it was just convention, being a full size boat person ,have all the controls visible from the conning position. But it isnt a scale model of any particular full size boat, I built this model to do a bit of pretty woodwork, and dabble in steam, so improving efficieny has to be a plus.

Did wonder about fixing the steam line through the funnel to 'super heat/ dry' the steam, turning the boiler around does make this easier, I hadn't had a look at the profile since making the boiler mounting plate, but yes it does look better, I can slacken the pressure gauge and turn it around to face aft if required. I think  will go down this route, the boiler can be fitted another inch or so forward to make more space aft, but it does look OK now. I intend to fit either a canopy or aft cabin, so with the funnel aft it will probably look better again. Her in doors says it looks better as well.
Thanks chaps, more to follow.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on December 30, 2009, 05:00:25 pm
Is the steam supply globe valve and S/V  able to be interchanged? That would have your supply line right at the stack and easy as pie to run through the stack a "drier" although not true super heater.. It will help..She sure is a clean lined boat!
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on December 31, 2009, 10:43:55 pm
It is probably easier to run the steam into the smoke stack from the side, the S/V is close to the stack and it would be awkward getting the fittings in place.

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 10, 2010, 09:07:52 pm
Well got the TRV1A running and fitted, had to revamp the layout abit so here is the progress todate, the starboard for'd bench seat has been shortened, to make room for the gas tank, still deciding whether to even things up and shorten the port side as well.
Have turned the boiler around so the funnel is more amidships, as previously sugested, this has balanced the boat up nicely, and made the blow off valve easier to get at. Have not run the steam pipe through the stack yet, got to decide on that one, Graham industries recomend not superheating, I know just a pipe through may not exactly superheat, so may improve this later. Will see how it goes for now.
Have bought some 2 1/2inch pipe to fabricate a condenser/oil separator out of, that will go on the port side.

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0605web.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: gondolier88 on January 10, 2010, 09:25:17 pm
Hi Andy,

That's looking fantastic mate!

I would imagine that GI advise not to superheat because of the abundance of aluminium in it's design- however a single pass through will help marginally with condensate issues, and will not heat more than a few degrees above boiler temperature.

Greg
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 10, 2010, 09:59:16 pm
I did think of it, as the steam feed is further away I thought it may replace the small heat loss with the pipe being longer. Fitting the steam control valve would be a bit more difficult. The pipes still need to lagged, but I am waiting for some nipples to complete the soldering. I have bought some 2 1/2 inch copper pipe to fabicate a condenser/oil separator, the waste steam pipe will then exit up the stack.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: gondolier88 on January 10, 2010, 10:04:40 pm
 :-)) Best way.

Greg
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bunkerbarge on January 11, 2010, 12:38:24 am
Congratulations on getting somewhere with the engine, good to hear it is now settling down a bit.  I think the seperator tank on the port side will balance the gas tank out on the starboard side perfectly, not only from a ballasting point of view but also aesthetically.  The next decision is whether you make the seperator tank horizontal to match the gas tank or vertical, which is actually that bit more effective.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kusuchi on January 11, 2010, 01:45:22 am
Looking really good.  :-))

I'm afraid I'm with Giovanni when it comes to most scale figures, though Bernhard's may be the exception.

I have about seven or eight, at two different scales, I'm more than willing to part with.  The only cost would be packaging and shipping!  :-)

I'll post photos if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 12, 2010, 07:12:44 pm
They would be worth seeing, and the heights of each one.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kusuchi on January 13, 2010, 12:52:10 am
They would be worth seeing, and the heights of each one.
Andy

Hi Andy,

I'll post pictures.  But, I'll start another thread so I don't distract from your magnificent work. 

If you are interested, I'll give you first option on the two you most prefer.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 13, 2010, 04:36:12 pm
Any one any ideas on prop size with a TRV1A, could fit a 2 1/4 inch no problem, at present I have a 50mm 4 blade, but its a kort nozzle prop, and I only fitted it as a temporary measure. I want to go as big as possible so as to run the engine slower and save steam, but don't want to overpower the engine. Could possibly get a 2 1/2 inch to fit.  Will stick to 3 blade for the proper propellor. The boat weighs about 6kg.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: gondolier88 on January 13, 2010, 08:34:54 pm
You want the engine to be slow revving, that's fine- however with the small pressures these engines run on you need to keep some decent rev's to have any recognisable power- I would say 75mm/3" at most.

Greg
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 14, 2010, 06:25:55 am
I'm with Greg on the prop size... but remind us -how long is your hull?...Er..launch? :}
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kiwimodeller on January 14, 2010, 09:02:13 am
I have the Gage single turning a 2 & 1/4 prop in a hull 920mm long and it pushes it no problem at 30psi so I think the twin cylinder version of the engine would easily swing a 3" prop. Hope this helps, Ian.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 15, 2010, 05:23:20 pm
I have the Gage single turning a 2 & 1/4 prop in a hull 920mm long and it pushes it no problem at 30psi so I think the twin cylinder version of the engine would easily swing a 3" prop. Hope this helps, Ian.

KiwiM...what hull do you  have your Gage in? have you posted a picture of it?

Thanks
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kiwimodeller on January 16, 2010, 10:03:10 am
The hull was started by a friend and then sat in a cupboard unfinished for many years. It was a Model Boats mag design from (I think) the 1980's called Ritalea which was meant to be electric but the Gage single and the 6 x 3 boiler fitted easily. I just modified the front deck and shortened the front cockpit so I could hide the disposable gas cylinder. I will try and post a picture of her under construction but I do not seem to have much luck posting pictures on here, no doubt down to my ignorance when it comes to uploading. Ian.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 16, 2010, 03:28:47 pm
Ian,
I download mine to photo bucket, then cut and paste the link. I ought to upload my model tug pictures to there as well.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kiwimodeller on January 17, 2010, 08:24:27 am
Hopefully this time two photos will be attached, one during construction showing the positioning of the boiler, engine and gas cylinder and one after the hull was finished. Cheers, Ian.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 17, 2010, 06:48:13 pm
Nice Ian--Glad to see that you worked out the photo posting...I still have issues over on RC groups -I just can't get my photos to appear like others over there.

Very nice deck -- !!
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 17, 2010, 06:53:44 pm
Andy ,

In your first post you mentioned this was a Metcalf Mouldings  "Solent" ...I have seen no such offering by them...where did you secure it?

And what were its dimensions again please?

Thanks

greg
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bernhard on January 17, 2010, 08:51:11 pm
     

                                  http://business.virgin.net/metcalf.mouldings/solent.htm
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 17, 2010, 10:47:04 pm
 :-))  Thanks Bernhard
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 18, 2010, 09:37:24 am
Andy ,

In your first post you mentioned this was a Metcalf Mouldings  "Solent" ...I have seen no such offering by them...where did you secure it?

And what were its dimensions again please?

Thanks

greg

Greg,
I believe Metcalf mouldings sold the hulls only part of there business to Models by Design, http://www.modelsbydesign.co.uk/

The hull is very similatr to the John Hemmens Lady Jayne, but a fraction of the price, she has good displacement and you don't really have to worry to much about keeping everything light.

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 18, 2010, 09:34:11 pm
Radio gear now fitted and tried, engine steamed and operated with radio gear all OK, the engine will run at about 10rpm one way but not as slow the other, so may order a left handed prop, would prefer a right hand but the engine runs marginally better left handed. Next job to strip steam gear from boat again and give a final coat of varnish to all interior wood work, I had to alter a few things, in particular the for'd seating to get the boiler and ancillary equipment in its proper place, didn't want any short cuts, I have to live with it, the boat is as near as damnit to what it would be if I had built it originally for steam, I may have dropped the floor 10mm if I was doing it again purely for steam. Anyway a couple of photos, excuse the carnation milk tin /condenser/separator, thats the next job to make a codenser/separator. I also made a more suitable rudder.

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_06062web.jpg)

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0607.jpg)

RUDDER
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0608web.jpg)
Ignore the prop, its a kort nozzle prop off a tug, just using it till I get the proper job!! The rudder worked out well, about 10 minutes with tin snips, file and a blow lamp, a lot better than the original. A quick polish with 600 grade and brasso.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: derekwarner on January 18, 2010, 10:24:00 pm
Andy...in the last two .jpgs we see just aft of the gas tank....the BLUE servo with a RED  linkage arm attached to the main steam regulator............

But what is the servo encased in? ....it nearly appears to be encased  >:-o up to the top cover in GREEN epoxy ...or is it an optical illusion

Great conversion build  :-)) ..........Derek
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: J.Walpot. on January 18, 2010, 10:41:21 pm
I love your Steam Launch Andy. A great advantage is that you can always see the engine when it's running.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on January 18, 2010, 10:50:51 pm
I vote to leave the Carnation tin in place, it adds character.  {-)

Looking good Andy.

Neil

Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 19, 2010, 08:10:26 am
Andy...in the last two .jpgs we see just aft of the gas tank....the BLUE servo with a RED  linkage arm attached to the main steam regulator............

But what is the servo encased in? ....it nearly appears to be encased  >:-o up to the top cover in GREEN epoxy ...or is it an optical illusion

Great conversion build  :-)) ..........Derek
Derek,
Its just a piece of ply painted green, the forward bench seats used to cover this area, but I needed more space, and had to cut the seats down, (see early pics in this thread), so the idea was to create a 'dirty ' area the blue servo will either be painted or covered to hide it. Originally the two servos were in the aft bench seat, but there were linkages running everywhere, so I simplified it by making the linkage direct, taking a leaf out of Bernard's book now they have to be hidden, the larger forward and reverse servo, ( bottom right 1st pic), will either be a coal bunker or work top with a few tools on. I did wonder whether to make the green area 'rough' planks.

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 19, 2010, 08:27:57 am
I love your Steam Launch Andy. A great advantage is that you can always see the engine when it's running.

I like the idea of seeing it all as well. I originally built this launch because I usually build tugs, and they were all plywood and plasticard, covered in paint, so I built the launch to be able to make some nice woodwork that could be seen, the steam plant is a bonus on top, just more work to keep polished.
Here are a couple of photos of one of my tugs

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0610web.jpg)


(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0612web.jpg)
 :-)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 19, 2010, 08:36:14 am
The next job is a condenser/oily water separator, from this 12inch (300mm) piece of copper tubing courtesy of ebay (5.00/ 5.70 Euro)including some brass plate for the base and top, I think 3 inches tall should be plenty.

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0609web.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 19, 2010, 02:52:58 pm
Condenser completed, just needs a polish. went for 3 1/2 inches in the end, so that it is just visible above the coaming, its not as if it cost me anymore, it may be more efficient being taller.

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0613web.jpg)

final coat of varnish on floors, then re fit steam plant plus condenser after work tomorrow. :-))
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 19, 2010, 05:44:36 pm
Handy work on the condenser Andy :-)) I have never understood why the shops sell those things for almost as much as a pressurized gas tank. Making those and displacement oilers saves me some money for more "steam boats " of course..

One day my dream launch...a MH&B Seekadett--but till then I am having fun learning and building...as you sure are!!

Nice tug also !
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 19, 2010, 05:55:06 pm
Mo,
They are expensive,I could have got one for 75.00  ($122 US) for the kit, but it just makes the whole job more expensive, I have ordered some unions for 7.50, so that will make the whole thing about 12.00  ($20.00) plus two hours labour. I was tempted too make another one with the left over metal tube and put it on ebay, if I hadn't got the copper tube so cheap i would have used a tin can i think, just for now. Abit larger than the carnation can!!!! :}
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: derekwarner on January 19, 2010, 10:12:48 pm
Andy.......@ 3 1/2" diameter you could plank it & add brass bands to compliment the boiler...... O0 and if you still have planks & brass strip left over ....plank the gas tank to compliment the boiler & condenser...... :-)) .....it is good fun......Derek
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 20, 2010, 03:11:33 pm
Derek,
I had thought of that, its nice to have penty of polished metal about, but it gets hot, so I will probably plank the condenser to match the boiler, it will look smart, and it will be cooler if your hands touch the condenser. I have plenty of mahogany from building the boat and also enough brass banding the same as I used on the boiler. I have to plumb the exhaust pipe into the flue and all is finished then, I will also probably build a removable cabin for the aft end, just for some thing else to do. I was going to lag the gas tank as well, but I think it needs the exposer to keep warm so the pressure stays up on the gas, it gets warm in the corner by the gas tank so it helps to pressurise the gas.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kno3 on January 21, 2010, 07:45:56 pm
Andy.......@ 3 1/2" diameter you could plank it & add brass bands to compliment the boiler...... O0 and if you still have planks & brass strip left over ....plank the gas tank to compliment the boiler & condenser...... :-)) .....it is good fun......Derek

I think it's not a good idea to plank the gas tank. You don't want to insulate it, that would only exacerbate the freezing effect.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 21, 2010, 09:29:09 pm
kno 3
I agree, as I said in my last post , it is quite warm in the corner by the gas tank, with radiated heat off the boiler, so it will help tokeep the gas flowing if it isn't lagged. I will lag the condenser though, it gets hot, just had a trial run in the house with everything fitted, have run the steam exhaust up the flue (stack), looks well with steam coming from the stack, my wife has kept on and on about smoke not coming from the stack. well, it does now  :-))
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: derekwarner on January 21, 2010, 09:33:46 pm
kno3.......yesterday it was 40 degrees C [ambient in the shade] in Adelaide.......show an uninsulated gas tank to direct sunshine & it would be 65 degrees C .... {-) Derek
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 21, 2010, 09:48:28 pm
Nice steam plant there Derek...A nice paddler go along with it??? O0 Please share!!
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: derekwarner on January 22, 2010, 06:18:48 am
mogogear...kno3 understands me ........this is an embarrassingly slow build. :embarrassed: .........in the photograph from FWD to AFT

Bix gas tank........ yes insulation & bands added for the temperatures in Australia
Anton gas regulator....I will have gas pressure gauging pre & post the regulator
ACS Engineering [Sandy Campbell] VB2 boiler [brass bands outstanding] & condenser [yes insulation & bands added]
Winfried Niggle quartz glass tubed lubricator
JMC 3H twin cylinder horizontal engine
4:1 stainless steel miniature roller chain drive reduction to the paddle shaft
ACS steam regulator
A myriad of small brass shaft couplings & wheel fitttings by 'bogstandad'
Naturally all of the steam components shown are on the engine plate but is resting on deck level.........they will all reside lower in the hull

Not shown are a set of CNC produced paddle wheels via Float a Boat here in OZ

The hull is cedar plank on ..frame.......I drew the hull lines in December 2000......... >>:-( see what I mean ......Derek

Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 22, 2010, 10:24:37 am
  Its b****y freezing here,  :(( I've been to Oz alot when I was at sea on container ships, should have stayed there. Wouldn't have problems with cold gas tanks.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 23, 2010, 11:39:43 pm
The launch had its steam maiden today, brilliant, but think I may have over propped the engine. I got a steam 3 blade prop from prop shop, 2.2 inches dia, the pitch is quite course. The boat has a nice scale speed, with out the engine doing a lot of revs, will try a smaller 55m prop tomorrow with finer pitch, if I get a few more revs from the engine with out it being ridiculous I may go for the standard prop from prop shop, same diameter, but less pitch, think the standard prop is 2.2 dia and 2.2 pitch, whereas the steam prop is 2.2 x 3.0, glad I didn't go for 4 blade. I found that when the engine is running ashore the engine has variable speed right thro the range on the radio control, but in the water the engine did not go any faster after half throttle, thats why I think it could be over propped, not that it is a bad thing, I had good run time. Will post some video and photos next week when I get a chance, on nights at the moment.Any way pleased as punch with the outcome.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on January 23, 2010, 11:44:06 pm
it should spin that bigger prop no problem, should  be able to spin a 4" prop.. I think more timing work req.

nice to see you have it sailing

Peter
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on January 24, 2010, 07:49:13 am
Well done Andy, congrats on getting your first 'steam' boat launched.

Prop Shop props are very nice and I had one on my first tug, but after experiments were done for the 24 hr race I switched to Rivabo props, as both performance and run times were better with them.

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 24, 2010, 04:21:31 pm
Well done Andy, congrats on getting your first 'steam' boat launched.

Prop Shop props are very nice and I had one on my first tug, but after experiments were done for the 24 hr race I switched to Rivabo props, as both performance and run times were better with them.

Neil

Neil I take it the 24 hour was for steam? See my next thread.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 24, 2010, 04:39:48 pm
Well after today I think the boat is not over propped, probably quite the opposite, tried a smaller prop and used a lot of steam, the engine has the toque to turn a larger prop, less revs, less steam. It was also cold today which made raising steam a bit of a task. Will now try a four blade prop, if I go up a size I will need to alter the keelson to provide clearance at the bottom of the prop, I have room above above the prop to clear the hull so maybe do both 2 1/2 inch 4 blade. Well pleased with performance, it was blowy today so needed the thrust.

(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x196/lightshipman/IMG_0614web.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on January 24, 2010, 04:42:05 pm
Neil I take it the 24 hour was for steam? See my next thread.
Andy

Slightly ancient history Andy.

In 1996 or 7, Tone Valley Club ran a 24hour race for model boats. Michael Porter decided to put a steam boat together to get the world record for the distance a model steam boat could cover in 24 hours. Deans Marine provided a hull and Cheddar Models put a Puffin engine with a slightly larger boiler. Michael and Iain Holland did some testing and came up with suitable radio batteries, prop, run times etc and Jerry Watson and myself were the two other 'crew'. We had one minor breakdown, when the boat hit something submerged, or to be totally correct it was the other way round as we were sailing on the river Tone. We had to change a steering servo, which cost us probably 20 minutes. In the end we set a new record of 44 miles.

As I recall, the winning boat was a 67" long drifter which only had one battery change in the whole 24 hours!

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 24, 2010, 05:04:21 pm
Very short video, its hard to video and drive at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKGtRI8z5xY


Neil,
I remember something about the 24 hour, yes its a long time ago, Model boats or marine modelling I think did a report.

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on January 24, 2010, 05:25:18 pm
and this is what it looked like, I have the hull to build at some point so took loads of pictures for ideas, it,s a nice hull as it has a fiberglass superstructure which is hand for steam

peter
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on January 24, 2010, 05:55:31 pm
The hull was based on the Christian Brunnings (seen behind) and the model was loosely based on Thames and other similar river tugs. The P&O logo was applied because Michael had a connection or a little sponsorship from P&O....I think. Andy, you are taxing my (very poor) memory.

We did have some fun and I have vivid memories of walking up and down the river bank in the very early hours of Sunday morning, with the gennie of the tea tent running and a few lights strung up to help us see the boats. That was before it rained.  >:-o

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kno3 on January 24, 2010, 10:08:56 pm
Cool, seems to work quite well!
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bernhard on January 25, 2010, 03:17:22 pm
Hi,,,Andy it look real great on the water...well don,,,,I'm glad that your engine work OK now,,,,i have 3 of them,,,bot i did bay them ready made with hex bolt from Graham...........after some month i got a problem with one....i just send it to Graham..he fix it fast and in a few days i did have it back,,,no cost....i was afraid to make the engine myself...if i lost eny of the small screws or parts,,,hope you will find a nice Captain to the boat.....And get many good hours on the lake

Regards Bernhard
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: mogogear on January 26, 2010, 05:56:26 am
I had exactly the same sentiments as you Andy on " how to steer and shoot the video"  at the same time...with out hitting something- or dropping the camera %%

BTW- I see you are in South Wales...Cardiff by any chance ? I have a friend in Cardiff who is quite a steam boater enthusiast as well!
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on January 26, 2010, 06:33:31 am
the Boat looks good on the water but, the question is , ARE YOU HOOKRD ON STEAM ? some people try it and then wont use any other power some think it's not worth the bother, you have had a few problems getting the motor right but still seem enthusiastic.

Peter
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 26, 2010, 09:10:03 am
the Boat looks good on the water but, the question is , ARE YOU HOOKRD ON STEAM ? some people try it and then wont use any other power some think it's not worth the bother, you have had a few problems getting the motor right but still seem enthusiastic.

Peter
well the boat isn't finished yet, I am a 'busy' person, its easy to get bored with electric, but steam keeps you busy and thiniking, this has been a four year project. Now i have to make the boat look 'lived in'. My tug models have allways had oill drums, crew and ropes of the trade strewn around, now got to do the same with the launch, maybe not to the same standard as bernard, he is an expert. Also i want to build a cabin aft, this will lift off so it can be an open launch or cabin launch. Also thinking of my next project, a launch with a wooden hull. Once a modeler always...

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on January 29, 2010, 10:04:03 pm
I have now updated my website to include some steam launch stuff
www.windpowersals.8m.com

Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on February 01, 2010, 06:29:59 pm
I have now updated my website to include some steam launch stuff
www.windpowersals.8m.com

Andy


I have tried the link and it does not show anythink.

just out of interest is your tank removable for filling ?

Peter
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on February 01, 2010, 11:15:56 pm
Hi,
Yes the gas tank is removable, I use the dreaded ronson type filler, fill, open the valve to expel some pressure with the fill bcylinder still attached, close the valve and refit. I tried one of the knurled nuts to save using a spanner, but the thread was different so I just use  a spanner. I have only just got my boat running on steam so haven't given a lot of thought yet to the gas supply, will stick with what I have for the moment untill I see something better.

Try this link
http://www.windpowersails.8m.com/

It is cut and pasted direct from the explorer. I just tried the above link and for some reason it gives the freeservers page weird. I usually test my links, but because it is my own page did not bother, I can't go back to edit it now.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on February 02, 2010, 07:00:57 am
The installation looks fine Andy. I wouldn't worry about venting gas while filling, all the commercial tanks available are designed to be filled using the Ronson valve.

I was club boiler tested for Cheddar Steam Club for a number of years and tested gas tanks to pressures far in excess of those found in any boiler; I never had so much as a leak from a filler valve, or anywhere else for that matter.

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on February 02, 2010, 12:29:24 pm
Neil,
I'm a bit if it workd leave it.  Where do you steam over your way,? I used to go to Sedgemoor model yacht club pond at Highbridge quite frequently when I sailed One metres and also the lake at Portishead.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on February 02, 2010, 03:38:04 pm
Quote
Where do you steam over your way,?

With the weather we've had recently, I don't sail at all  {-)

I am just getting back into steam after a break, but I will be sailing at Cheddar Steam Club and probably Portishead as well. I used to belong to both clubs and intend to rejoin.

Cheddar have several open weekends, where any one is welcome and you can bring boats along. Linky: http://www.cheddar-steam-club.org.uk/ (http://www.cheddar-steam-club.org.uk/)

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kusuchi on February 04, 2010, 01:42:50 am
[quote aut ok2 ok2 ok2hor=HS93 link=topic=3755.msg216777#msg216777 date=1264487611]
the Boat looks good on the water but, the question is , ARE YOU HOOKRD ON STEAM ? some people try it and then wont use any other power some think it's not worth the bother, you have had a few problems getting the motor right but still seem enthusiastic.

Peter
[/quote]

Having watched Andy's video, (and many others), how could one not be 'hooked on steam'!  The Lady Margaret looks magnificent, with a wonderful plume of steam coming from the funnel.  By comparison, the electric vessel she passes looks somewhat insipid. 

Sure, steam is a lot more work, but the rewards of witnessing such a piece of model engineering in motion cannot be surpassed. :-)

(I do realize I'm preaching to the converted here, though  ;) )!
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: red_noir on February 04, 2010, 01:50:26 am
hooked on steam !

I was hooked as soon as I fired up my boiler for the first time ! the sound of the burner the hissing and popping ! it almost seemed to have taken on a life of its own !! I was mesmerized !
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on February 04, 2010, 07:01:33 am
When I first began sailing a steam tug, the hobby was still very much the preserve of the model engineer, so steam models were few and far between. I was sailing on Portishead lake and several people commented on the tug 'with smoke coming out of the funnel', not realising they were standing next to the owner (rc is great for that). I brought the tug by, slowly and very close to the bank, so that the steam plant could be seen through the engine room vents. The reaction was great, as the watchers suddenly realised it was a steam model. This happened quite often and long conversations often followed.

Steam brings a model to life.

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on February 04, 2010, 08:15:00 am
With the weather we've had recently, I don't sail at all  {-)

I am just getting back into steam after a break, but I will be sailing at Cheddar Steam Club and probably Portishead as well. I used to belong to both clubs and intend to rejoin.

Cheddar have several open weekends, where any one is welcome and you can bring boats along. Linky: http://www.cheddar-steam-club.org.uk/ (http://www.cheddar-steam-club.org.uk/)

Neil
Will keep my eye on the web site and try to get over sometime. Looks well orga nised and some nice models.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Underpressure on February 04, 2010, 05:07:08 pm
I would be great to meet up Andy.

I have not attended for a couple of years, but there are always some eye openers at the open days, as even when the factory was running, we would encourage all steam boaters to come along, not just Cheddar owners. Some of the models that would turn up were fascinating in their design and construction.

Neil
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on February 23, 2010, 08:38:12 pm
Had a visit to my local lake sunday, going to leave steam untill the weather warms up, takes ages to get steam up, even using hot water from a flask, have now trouble in the kitchen, except that the sink is to small :-))
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on February 23, 2010, 08:45:58 pm
what gas are you using ?

Peter
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on February 23, 2010, 09:25:08 pm
I am using Go system Propane/Butane mix from Focus, or the equivalent from B&Q. Think its just the cold weather, works great in the house.
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: andywright on May 29, 2010, 08:03:41 pm
Wish I had time to go for a steam, struggling a bit lately., now its windy!!!
Andy
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: benjaml1 on May 29, 2010, 09:01:36 pm
I'm using the same "Gosystem" & have been doing some tests in preparation for tomorrow ( please don't let it rain Lord.) & am finding that as the tank gets close to empty ( yes I can still hear it sloshing) its calorific value ( ???) seems to drop ??? Something going on, separation of gasses I spose, light ends off first..  :o
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bunkerbarge on May 29, 2010, 09:47:58 pm
Is the temperature of the tank getting lower?
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: benjaml1 on May 29, 2010, 10:14:02 pm
Is the temperature of the tank getting lower?

Yes, I'm running on my auxilliary cartridge tank & it feels a little chilly....
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: Bunkerbarge on May 30, 2010, 10:41:13 am
Then it could be that the rate of evaporation is being reduced by the reduction in temperature to the point where it is having an effect on the flame.  Some modellers warm the tank with a line from the engine exhaust running under the tank but this can then cause a lot of spitting from the funnel as you condense some of the exhaust steam.

Possibly the easist way is to simply be aware of it and, if you have an "auxiliary tank", simply change them over as they become cool.  The stand by tank should then warm up again and return to a normal pressure.  It is also well worth remembering that the rate of cooling is proportional to the rate of evaporation in the first place so being as careful with your gas consumption place plays a big part.  If you can possibly initially raise steam pressure on the bank from yet another tank that will be really beneficial to maintaining the temperature in your gas tank, which will then not even start to fall until you put the model in the water.
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: benjaml1 on May 30, 2010, 04:46:17 pm
Excellent advice, I am still learning. Many thanks...  :-))
Title: Re: Steam Launch
Post by: kiwimodeller on May 31, 2010, 11:55:36 am
I find it is a definite advantage to get up steam with a different heat source. I usually use a plumbers torch attached to a 4kg gas bottle but also have a smaller Kovea brand plumbers torch that attaches to the cylindrical camping stove gas cylinder. There is one model of this brand of torch which has a preheat tube in the nozzle which allows it to be used in any position. The other alternative is just to use one of your almost empty disposable cannisters and then fit a new one before sailing. Hope this helps, Ian.