Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: raflaunches on June 19, 2012, 08:19:07 pm
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Hi everyone
I originally started my investigation of HMS Protector in Warship R&D under the topic of Hull Dimensions, but now I have enough info to start on this project. Whilst I am away in the South Atlantic my Dad will build the hull and fit the running gear, he has promised me that he will take plenty of photos for me!
The model will be built in 1/72 scale for ease of transport but mainly because I have two Westland Whirlwind helicopters in the same scale that I can actually use at last!
I am in contact with the Protector Association who are kindly providing some pictures and a lot of useful info especially regarding the various modifications that the ship had over the years.
Some pictures of the helicopter I am building to come soon, seems strange to build a model helicopter before I start on the hull! %%
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Hi everyone
As promised some pictures of the helicopter build for HMS Protector.
I have used Italeri's 1/72 scale American version of the Whirlwind and converted it to the British HAR Mk 9 version using RotorCrafts resin, etch brass and white metal conversion set which is available via a2zee models website. As you can see there is not much left of the original fuselage as the British HAR Mk 9 was powered by a Gnome turboshaft engine instead of the Pratt and Witney radial engine. The tail is kinked compared the original version and the underside has a trough for an aerial torpedo.
(http://s14.postimage.org/wthgzm0yl/P6170119.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wthgzm0yl/)
(http://s13.postimage.org/a2czr808j/P6170121.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/a2czr808j/)
(http://s14.postimage.org/57sy3j2ot/P6170124.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/57sy3j2ot/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/k7zhsfkh7/P6170125.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/k7zhsfkh7/)
And finally for now, here is a copy of a print by Ross Watton who paints Royal Navy warships, so you can see what hopefully the final model and helicopter should look like.
(http://s13.postimage.org/8ov06rwoj/P6170122.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/8ov06rwoj/)
Regards
Nick B
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You might be interested in this link as you will be able to identify the actual helos that flew off protector and be able to add the correct identity to your model helos.
http://www.helis.com/database/
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Hi Deadbeat
Thanks for the link, really appreciated, it has saved me a lot of time searching the internet and emailing the Protector's archivist to discover the aircraft serial number.
Regards
Nick B
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Been a little while since I posted anything on this build log!
Since my detachment down South my Dad received the pictures from the Archivist at the Protector Association. He kindly sent us pictures of his own model of HMS Protector along with a picture of the hangar interior and an excellent aerial view of her when she was a net layer. He has been a fantastic source of info since he actually served on board Protector in the mid 1960's, he has confirmed or corrected many of my assumptions as to layout of weapons or other fittings. The bows were rebuilt from the netlayer bow to a more conventional bow in 1962 and the main mast was modified in 1961. The 3pdr saluting gun and oerlikon mounting are located either side of the boat deck, so all in all a brilliant start to the build. Now all I need is Dad to start building the hull! <*<
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I don't know if anyone has come across another forum called World Naval Ships Forum, I joined them as they seem to be research forum for the World's warships. After joining them I found some fantastic pictures of HMS Protector that I had not seen before, solved a lot of head scratching! Typed in Insect class gunboats and found some more pictures that would have been helpful for my build of HMS Gnat, wish I had found them sooner!
It just seems to be that they have the connections or friends with all the pictures!!!! :-))
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Hi every one
I have decided to make a start on my first scratch-built hull that Dad has not built for me! :embarrassed: The plans of the Protector from the NMM are very clear about the shape at the stern but the drawing is incomplete at the bow. I have started to cut out my stern bulkheads from 8mm ply using my fret saw and filing to shape, I have made two so far, only another 20 to go! Luckily my scanner is working again so managed to photocopy 22 copies of the bulkheads and cut out them out minus the 1/16" required for the plates of the hull.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2u5xbuh.jpg)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/i2rotk.jpg)
Note the unusual shape of the stern bulkheads, the tunnels were there to protect the propellers from the nets from when the ship was a net layer.
Wish me luck...
Regards
Nick B
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I have just made three more bulkheads using my Dad's new toy, a brand new band saw! I made the three bulkheads so quick I run out of the 4mm ply I am using. Luckily Dad has found some more hiding in the garage, to be honest probably enough to build two complete hulls! So this friday I will be continuing the cutting out of the bulkheads and hopefully lay down the keel on Saturday, after we have given our lake at Wicksteed Park another swill around.
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Hi RFA, if the model is anything like the Insect boat, I am looking forward with anticapation to see another great model.
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I'll tag along Nick ... looks interesting.
Dave
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Hi Dave, Hi Dodes
Good to hear from you both, as before I'll try my best now that the Insect gunboat is approaching completion, I have never 'scratch built' a hull before (my Dad built them all!) so I am looking forward to the challenge. Due to the snow our clearance of the Wickies Lake is on hold until Sunday so I have plenty of time tomorrow to start on the remaining 17 bulkhead/frames.
I was talking to the Protector Association archivist the other day about something I spotted on the boat deck, I could make out an item which shouldn't be on board- a Series 2 Land Rover! It turns out that they used in the Falklands and parts of South Georgia to drive around the islands!!! :o
So I have found my old Airfix 1/72 scale Landie from the Bloodhound kit and will build for the Protector!
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Hi everyone
Its been a while since I started this topic but at last I have started to build the hull.
However I have learnt a very important lesson regarding the original ship's plans- they are wrong!!!
For the past couple of weeks I have spent all my free time at work drawing the hull frames from the hull profiles on the original plans, I must admit I had my doubts anyway because some looked like the printer had gone 'squiffy' when the NMM plans section printed it, but I had no idea how far the bow frames were out. I even got to the point of cutting the frames out on my 4mm plywood sheets and test fitted them on the keel when I noticed that it didn't match any pictures of the ship! The Protector has a large 'Knuckle' feature which runs from approx two thirds of the ship to the bow but the way the drawings were drawn changed this knuckle into a tapering line which disappeared at the bow instead of remaining parallel with the deck line. After a while the penny dropped and I went to the waterline/buttock lines plan and started measuring each frame from the waterlines and decks and discovered that the original draughtsman who drew the frames must have been either very lazy and copied the Protectors half sistership HMS Guardian or not known what he was doing and drawn a 'representation'. <*<
Any way it meant that the first 6 frames were completely wrong and had to be drawn again and cut out again and now looks to my Mark 1 eyeball to be correct in shape!
The frames are currently being built from solid 4mm plywood and at a later date some will cut out or dis-regarded as the build progresses as there are 22 individual frames according to the plan. The keel is made from 6.5mm wide and 26mm high soft wood bought from a local builder's merchant. The keel was measured off the plan and cut to shape, the aft section was drilled out with 4.2mm hole to slide the rudder post in. After the keel was stuck together with superglue and the bow strengthener also fitted, the keel was marked out the frame locations and placed on to the build board (a very big heavy piece of plywood about 18mm thick and 6x1ft in dimensions) where I had previously marked a staight line to which the keel could be placed against. I started at the bow and placed metal angle brackets normally used for shelves (checked for the correct 90 degree angle with a square) which were screwed on to the build board at regualr intervals and the keel checked to ensure that it didn't deviate from the striaght line on the build board. Once I was happy, I placed the 4mm frames on to their designated mark on the keel and were clamped into position with the metal 90 degree brackets and modelling clamps. You can see the progress so far with the pictures below. I will be using two 12v Bosch car heater motors to power the props and a Foggy Mk2 smoke generator will be located in front of the motors. My current theory means that I will require one 12v SLA and one 6v SLA batteries to power everything. There is just room for all this! :D Just!
(http://i46.tinypic.com/13zo09h.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2j2u5mo.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/akk8ib.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/10pdeky.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2ajbyf.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/34j7ho7.jpg)
You can see the difference in shape between these two frames- both are supposed to be the same frame!
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2nrhcmx.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/og9ojt.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2r2ue4p.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2jdpf2r.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/211kpxx.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/qqofae.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2lntfrl.jpg)
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Hi everyone
I have continued to research the Protector and the other day whilst trawling through eBay I bid and won these 4 pictures
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2s0l36q.jpg)
However like all pictures they have opened up a can of worms! I have been trying to identify a few items on the deck beneath the helicopter deck. Looking at the left upper picture does anyone have any idea what the four 'seat-like' fittings are on the stern?
Using a magnifying glass I have identified the cylinders fitted either side of the hangar are the AVGAS fuel tanks! Don't think I would want them fitted there! ok2
I am amazed at the detail that I couldn't see on the earlier pictures especially the lockers by the hangar and the boat Derrick/crane which has suddenly become a lot clearer.
Two days later I won this picture
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2wn1afl.jpg)
The info on the back said: the Protector's echo sounder recorded that the depth of water beneath their ice stadium was 1400ft! The picture is dated March 1963.
Earlier in March this year I found this picture of Protector dated 15/5/1955 arrived at Portsmouth to bring six King Penguins for London Zoo. I am using this picture as a template and comparing it with the newly acquired ones to identify the later additions.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/r0pj78.jpg)
Research is fun... Isn't it!... :}
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It's the best part Nick. :-))
ken
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It's the best part Nick. :-))
ken
Certainly is Ken! :-))
On another quick ask, what is the large 'radar' scanner on top of the bridge? I've seen pictures of similar looking items but I would like to know which type it is so I can get proper drawings from somewhere.
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Well it's been almost a whole year since my build log of the Protector came to a grinding halt. The lack of information for the modified bows and what was hidden beneath the flight deck has taken me this long to find out!
Searching through the web and the many online auction sites I managed to treble my photo collection of the Protector and I realised that I needed to find out what certain features were. I've identified light fittings, ladders, fuel tanks, ships boats, and finally I know what is beneath the light deck. Not much, the original net layer sliding chutes were left in place and the flight deck was built directly on top of the original structure.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/156z32u.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/24dko6d.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/b5nnkx.jpg)
As you can see from the new pictures of the hull build, there is a lot less wood! I've cut out all the central bulkheads to the bare minimum required and I've cut out the upper chine/stringer notches to test how accurate my drawing and cutting skills were! As it turns out I've only rejected two bulkhead frames, and luckily I didn't need that many anyway. So expect to see more pictures as I continue at long last and fingers crossed I don't stop. Dad is mentoring me in the art of hull building, I think he's enjoying it since I made him learn to build superstructures! :}
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Looks great :-))
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Fair do Mr Launches, youy have been busy with other projects as the Majestic and Gnat have attested so do not fret!
I want to have a go at a plank and frame hulled model as I have a pink foam hull plug, a large plastic hull and a GRP hull all calling for my attention.
Progress so far looks very interesting and I hope you have the opportunity to progress HMS Protector soon.
Should I buy a Howes Seaport tug to play with while I build my ships or be patient? I feel naughty borrowing boats event though they are offered!
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Thanks lads!
I've been on some long awaited leave and I've spent most of the day building, gluing, modifying, smashing and breaking the 'hull'! I'll upload some pictures tomorrow of my progress, just waiting for the glue to set completely to see if my clamping and bolting has ensured the hull isn't twisted.
I've had to make up a completely new bow section to create the rounded section compared to the original net layer bows.
With the Gnat almost finished I will be concentrating on the Protector a lot more, so Majestic will be continuing nicely at my place of work and Protector will be new home project.
Until tomorrow... :-))
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As promised here are my pictures of the build so far.
The hull stayed straight and twist free, so I released the hull from the jig and clamped the hull upside down to begin the longeron/stringer cutting in for the plating to glue to. I have added the extra pieces of soft wood to the keel for this reason too, every extra bit helps! The hull is solid now and can't move- I know I've tried twisting it!
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2qxyl3m.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/15xu13n.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/35bz7ns.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/15yetcz.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2rdz0k3.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/156xufm.jpg)
The prop shafts (not the ones for this model I should point out! {-) ) temporary fitted to show how close the props are- 70mm apart!
(http://i61.tinypic.com/28juz68.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/5zpa0w.jpg)
The shape of the hull has really surprised both me and my Dad, the tubbiness of the hull yet the shallowness of the draught makes it gigantic compared to a 1/72 scale destroyer or frigate.
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That is one curvacious hull Nick! It will be an interesting challenge to get the planks to follow all those compound curves.
Is that a plank bending engine to the right of the hull in black?
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Hi Ian
It's certainly a challenge, I've been trying out some 1/32" ply sheet around the hull to gauge the difficulty of the plating. Most of it will fit, the bow area will be the real challenge. The black object is my MMB 24v foggy unit to simulate steam and smoke from the Protectors funnel. The best thing about it it's exactly the same width as the superstructure is as wide- 8cm. So it'll slide perfectly through the gap in the deck-hopefully ;)
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Ah right. The white tube and what looked like a black one by it gave the impression of wheels! I stuck the ram bow on my WW1 destroyer tonight and this will tax my skills in plastic banding. The hull is from a large plastic ship kit and so I decided to stick with the material to ease adhesion.
Keep up the good work and get that Lovely Gnat completed that I keep seeing sat next to the Protector glumly:O)
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Hull plating started using 1/32" ply ensuring I'm using the grain to aid the curvature of the plates being fitted to the frames and stringers
(http://i57.tinypic.com/6ohk79.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2uti0bo.jpg)
Don't worry Ian, Gnat will finished soon, just waiting for some fittings to arrive :-))
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Hull plating progressing well on the starboard side. Amazing shape revealing itself with every plate.
Prop shafts arrived on Friday from SHG, excellent service-I ordered them on Saturday at Coalville and they arrived in less than four days. The shafts are 10inches long with a 5inch brass tube and a M4 thread.
They have been trial fitted with a set of propshop bronze 3 bladed props.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2heknqf.jpg)
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Hi everyone
Progression of the initial hull skinning/plating has gone well, just the transom and bow to make up!
The port side has been filed up and the 'knuckle' has been started. It's certainly fun, I think... ok2
(http://i58.tinypic.com/21otwes.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2ahfxid.jpg)
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Looking good Mr Brown :-))
Ned
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Thanks Ned
It's been a steep learning path with this build so far! Luckily some of my little errors will hopefully be fixed with the next layer of plating! The knuckle was an area of concern for a start until I found out that my measuring was not 100% accurate but can be corrected with next layer and a bit of filler! :-))
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Hi everyone
Whilst I was waiting for some glue to dry on my Majestic battleship build last weekend I was busy making the transom from 1/8" plywood and created the rounded edges from 1cm square softwood pieces.
Then I sheeted the remaining stern portion with 1/32" plywood sheet, I'm still having fun creating this strange vessel, eventually I'll get to the bow... :-))
(http://i62.tinypic.com/34nguwo.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/flvimx.jpg)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/dzf2u.jpg)
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I was scanning through ebay and found some detailed pictures of HMS Protector. I thought they might be useful.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-x-HMS-PROTECTOR-A146-35mm-black-white-negatives/301333184297?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25402%26meid%3Db483c17215624f94981b6e0f61d684be%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D10670%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D251660977238
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Hi RSM
Thanks for the link, I've placed a bid on them since there is one of the missing pictures I've been looking for since last year!
Getting plenty of info for her to continue after warwick show once the Majestic class is being finished off- I hope!
Hope I win them- I'd be most disappointed if I didn't. :-))
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Whilst Dad is starting the Train Ferry, I thought I would get the bows of the Protector done- it has been over 15 months since I laid her up whilst I made up my mind on how to do it! %)
In the end I decided on the easiest method, I filled the area up with blocks of balsa wood roughly cut to shape, waited until it was all dry and then went psycho on it with a dynafile! %% <*<
(http://i66.tinypic.com/3144dnb.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2ltr88p.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/10y3ms2.jpg)
It was after all this madness that I discovered that my measurement were not 100% accurate earlier in the build, so to correct the kinkiness of the area just aft of the new starboard bow I fitted the corrected 40mm deep 'knuckle' plates and allowed them to follow the natural curve of the hull instead of the force one I had introduced 15 months ago!
After the starboard side trial I decided that I needed to get the prop shafts in too!
(http://i68.tinypic.com/fazz9u.jpg)
Now I know what I'm doing (seriously worried that I don't... or do!!!) I should get the port side finished before my next outing to Cyprus.
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Lordy, what with the Dreadnought on the go, you are really busy modelling. She looks good.
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Yeh, the poor old Protector been sitting around for too long so I had to bite the bullet to get the bow done.
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And the finished bows!!! Only 15months over due!!!
Ignore the slight wobble in the wood on the bow line looking in picture 1, it makes an optical illusion but it is straight and just needs some filler to hide it and it'll go away!
A lot of filler has had to be used to blend and equalise both side of the hull due to slight mistakes, this is my first scratch build of a hull so its going to need some correction along the way. :embarrassed:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/xc1vo8.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2heg5rn.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/29yoxmg.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/29fxt01.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/j7vv5d.jpg)
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Coming along great Nick.
I had to scroll down twice as while looking my eye was caught on the pre-dreadnought like ship in the background. Is she German? The derricks seem very un RN to me.
You and your Father are a two man ship yard!
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Thanks Ian
Hmm, yes you've spotted my little eBay accident! The pictures actually looked better until I got her home!
The radio gear inside made it worthwhile but the model is... Let's say... Needs work! <:( :embarrassed:
It's SMS Schlesien, a Deutchland class pre-dreadnought.
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Often the case. I missed this beaut completley on Ebay. Is it a quick restoration job or is it a naive build that you can't resist attacking with the accuracy stick?
I fancy building Ostfriesland with the interesting hexagonal turret arrangement one day.
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Nick like myself have picked up the same ship sms schliesen a deutscheland class pre dreadnought. His has a fiberglass hull whole mine is bread and butter. Nicks seems to be a hybrid ship as it has a catapult launcher on one of the turrets. This class of ship were never equipped that way. Mine is a 1928 twin funnel refit that I'm putting back to 1908 spec for the Jutland review at Mayhem. Nick I think is hoping to do the same but I think it's a major job hat with his other builds going on etc.
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Nick like myself have picked up the same ship sms schliesen a deutscheland class pre dreadnought. His has a fiberglass hull whole mine is bread and butter. Nicks seems to be a hybrid ship as it has a catapult launcher on one of the turrets. This class of ship were never equipped that way. Mine is a 1928 twin funnel refit that I'm putting back to 1908 spec for the Jutland review at Mayhem. Nick I think is hoping to do the same but I think it's a major job hat with his other builds going on etc.
I think you're right there Klunk, not a hope in hell that my Schlesien will be started before May! In its current condition it wouldn't look right at the Jutland review.
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I saw the flying off platform and wondered of it was in a later guise. Tis a shame she won't be finished in time as it would be a coup to have a significant part of a whole class of battleships for the review!
It is interesting though that the ship seems to have been quite popular a subject. You can understand Bismark or Hood etc being modelled regularly, but not a German Pre Dreadnought.
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Decks are on, and rudder servo fitted. If you're wondering what the strange lump is on the quarter deck is a left over from her original guise as a net layer. Not entirely sure but good guess is to control the speed of the Nets being deployed from the net hold.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2uj4c20.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/5d4hzd.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2rr5l4z.jpg)
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It is detail like this that do make a model so interesting, and adds historical interest. I am sure the number of warships that have not been altered for various reasons over their lifetimes is small.
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It certainly is, without it it would look a little empty under the flight deck, even though I still do not know what they had under there post 1955.
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Electronic gubbins perhaps?
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It's possible, when I contacted the Protector Association they sent me loads of info and pictures but didn't want to tell me what was below the flight deck. Who knows what she really got up to in the Antarctic! %)